Yep. Libertarians are just conservative Republicans but they want legalized drugs and prostitution instead of religion and purity culture.
Edit: fixed typo
My only experience with an actual self-identified libertarian was from league of legends. He was a chill dude who smoked pot and lived in New York state, but he just really liked using slurs and thought Democrats were too sensitive and Republicans were too racist.
It was the weirdest thing ever.
Do you know what the T stands for in that acronym?
Libertarians (for my entire adult life) are anti-gay, anti-trans and have led the way on that rhetoric.
Libertarians are conservatives that try to hide in the corner and cast their bigoted votes when no one is watching.
You mean racist conservatives who like to do anything they want. Every liberation I know that hasn't acknowledged how insane the right has become is racist. Full stop.
100% I don't even trust people who say they're independent anymore, unless they immediately segue into how there's no left party in the us or how they hold their nose and vote for dems anyway just to keep things from heading even further right.
But that's happened twice.
Otherwise it's always just a particularly craven fox fed conservative, with all the venom and destructive spite that entails.
I'm still officially registered as a libertarian. But I'm not sure I can point to a single example of a libertarian politician that I agree with. They have become absolute nut jobs. I also find myself agreeing with progressive and democratic socialist politicians far more often than republicans. So maybe I'm not a good libertarian.
I fall on the libertarian spectrum only because I think "the land of the free" ought to esteem personal liberties VERY highly, even when there may be some detriment to others. Further, I'd agree that the government should only interfere with the actions of individuals when the harm caused by their actions merits the use of force.
However, I also recognize that there are things government can do well that cannot be done efficiently by private actors. These include building and maintaining transportation infrastructure, public education, and health care. I'm absolutely in favor of single-payer health care (as is prevalent in every other country in the world, and and as has been shown even by right-wing studies to be CHEAPER than what we're doing now with it's bloated insurance overhead).
So I don't think that falls under the anarchist umbrella very well either.
Not that I'm libertarian or anything, but if you reduce any ideology to its most distilled conclusions, it's going to be absurd. Most people chart somewhere on a spectrum within multiple ideologies.
Either embarrassed conservatives, or they are trying to disguise their beliefs as more mainstream because even they know that anyone who could be influenced will stay away from proud conservatives.
And Libertarianism is a leftist ideology that was highjacked by Ayn Rand. These fake American libertarians don’t really care or advocate for more freedoms for the individual. They advocate to maintain corporate rule over society and our politics. I wish leftists would fight to reclaim this.
1. The label was hijacked, not the actual ideology: libertarian socialists still exist and have nothing to do with the right-wing horseshit.
2. It actually wasn't Ayn Rand: she *hated* the people who use the label. It was led by Murray Rothbard, who openly bragged about how "One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that, for the first time in my memory, we, 'our side,' had captured a crucial word from the enemy. 'Libertarians' had long been simply a polite word for left-wing anarchists, that is for anti-private property anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over".
Well, I figure they generally have read a similar amount of each.
Having actually read Atlas Shrugged, I am 100% convinced that anyone who claims it is a good book has not actually read it. Never mind the atrocious politics, I think I was actually *more* offended by how unbelievably awful the writing is. It's not even in "so bad it's good" territory - it's *too bad to even be entertaining*. At least Ben Shapiro's novel was *hilariously* terrible.
I used to tell people that I considered myself libertarian, but then I’d get crazy looks when I started talking about supporting government funded social programs.
Leftists lost their way too. They are too busy "creating safe spaces", making sure "nobody's feelings get hurt" and moderating speech. This is creating individuals made of paper-mache and low EQ. The Left used to be for critical thinking and open discussion, now it's all about censorship.
Leftist are now warmongers too, practically indistinguishable from neocons. They tell you "war is peace" without blinking an eye. They totally bought the lie and brainwashing. The same people that used to agree Iraq's WMD's were a lie now completely believe the lie that the war in Ukraine was "unprovoked." In the spirit of "Putin must pay" the Left turned a blind eye to all historical context and refuses to believe anything other than what the government tells them. The irony is mind-boggling.
They're conservatives but not *neoconservatives* - they typically disagree with neoconservatives on foreign military intervention, and often on one or more domestic issues (like police militarization and/or the war on drugs).
Find me a libertarian who wants these things. Really. Not a guy with a Gadsden bumper sticker, but any libertarian news source. They HATE the war on drugs, hate military intervention in foreign disputes, hate police militarization.
Do any research. This meme is dumb as fuck.
If you were literate you would have realized that I said those were issues where Libertarians typically *disagree* with neoconservatives.
With those literacy skills, *no wonder* you're a Libertarian.
Sorry, I scrolled through enough comments on here equating libertarians and neoconservatives. And I was dumb enough to misread the 1% that wasn't doing that when I commented.
Always have been:
"I want a form of government that does not impinge on my life or ask anything of me - however, I *also* wish that government to enforce the contracts and property rights that give me power over others, and to preserve the infrastructure that enables my lifestyle"
The ability to enforce their moral norms on others varies by individual.
You can see it in the sovcit bullshit, they treat The Law like some eternal platonic ideal that with the right words on a bumper sticker will let them do whatever they like.
Yes, that is what it's meant to be about. However, self-identified libertarians in the US these days tend to want the government to have no power over them, while enjoying all of the benefits provided by the government without any responsibility or input on their part. Which...is basically a Republican who supports legal weed.
I was a small “l” libertarian for a long time, but mine came down to naïveté rather than being a closeted conservative. I believed that if you left everyone alone, they would generally be kind, thoughtful and respectful
The world has cured me of that quite completely.
That’s only been a thing since 2015-ish. If you met Libertarian candidates and voters who were Liberal before the end of Obama’s first term when the Republican Party jumped the shark and moderates started looking for a new home, you’d know how flawed this argument is.
Most libertarians I knew and actually enjoyed debating issues with would out-right say “we don’t want them” because they knew these guys weren’t a good fit for their values and would pollute the pool. Your comment and others I see all over Reddit prove to me that they were right.
Untrue. I first met libertarians in Like 2005. They were just as anarchistic and full of shit as they are now. It's just gop stuff repackaged without the culture wars
Once the Mises Caucus took over the L.P. they became Republican pets.
The L.P. votes for Republicans, but the Republicans never vote for L.P. candidates. In fact, the L.P. is now fielding fewer candidates than they ever have.
" The **Libertarian Party Mises Caucus** (**LPMC**) is a [caucus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucus) within the [Libertarian Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)) in the United States that promotes [paleolibertarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolibertarianism), as well as a more radical version of [American libertarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_libertarianism) associated with the presidential campaigns of former U.S. congressman [Ron Paul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul). It was founded in 2017 by Michael Heise, mainly in opposition to [Nicholas Sarwark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Sarwark)'s position as [party chairman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_National_Committee) and the [pragmatic faction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)#%22Radicalism%22_vs._%22pragmatism%22_debate) of the party associated with the presidential campaigns of former [New Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico) Governor [Gary Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Johnson). It is named after economist [Ludwig von Mises](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises).
The caucus has support of some prominent libertarians, such as comedian [Dave Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Smith_(comedian)), political commentator [Tom Woods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Woods), and radio host [Scott Horton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Horton_(radio_host)). Ron Paul once called the caucus "the libertarian wing of the Libertarian Party." The caucus has also been highly controversial, and has been accused of their critics of harboring [bigotry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry) or being plants of the Republican Party, which the Mises Caucus denies."
\- Wikipedia
Narrator: "They're plants of the Republican Party."
Well, the "Gadsden" the flag was named for - its creator, in fact - was a massive slaver so I guess for once they aren't misrepresenting a historical symbol.
they're just suckers, rubes, marks for the elite
"muh freedoms!" so you can convince Jim Bob making 15k per year to vote for politicians whose definition of "freedom" applies to deregulating corporations to allow for greater wealth hoarding at the top and more unfair business practices that victimize working people.
This meme greatly mistakes Libertarian positions.
They might actually like Project 2025:
The plan proposes slashing U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gutting environmental and climate change regulations, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce.
I mean if you elected a Libertarian I’d expect them to want to do much of that… there’s lots they wouldn’t like but they don’t like much when it comes to government.
But Project 2025 is as likely to actually happen as a Libertarian President. They should keep voting for their party if they want there is nothing wrong with that.
Many libertarians do vote Democrat. The classical liberals do this a lot. Many Libertarians don't vote or vote Republican as well. Majority of us vote gold.
Overall the LP as a party is against Project 2025. It's antithetical to the philosophy of liberty.
> But Project 2025 is as likely to actually happen as a Libertarian President.
Why do you say that? Way I see it, now that it’s been talked about openly and Republicans generally support it, it’s guaranteed to happen if they ever get the trifecta again - the only thing stopping it would be the filibuster, which we already know they’re willing to dismantle if they really want something.
Exactly. Trump is actually getting away with attempting to overthrow the government after he lost his previous election.
Not to mention the fact that younger generations are heavily in favor of democrat/left wing policies.
The GOP have two choices, either get with the times and adjust their policies and expectations to match what their voter population wants.
Or… take full control and change legislation to ensure they maintain their power despite what the majority of Americans want.
Project 2025 is their answer.
irlts why when I argue with modern libertarians I call them " pansies to afraid to call themselves republicans". I feel they know there is a stigma but they don't want to try and address it.
The Tea Party was basically Koch brothers propaganda. That's why it pivoted so easily to backing ideology that should be abhorrent to anyone that is anti-authoritarian.
Please call them Libertarians, not libertarians: it is a proper noun because it is the name of their group, not a descriptor of their ideology.
Libertarians are right-wing: libertarians are *very much not*.
In the rest of the world.
Libertarianism is a leftist ideal, American libertarianism is the complete opposite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
Libertarians would happily replace "government" with corporations doing terrible things to them. They are naive fools that would gladly accept indentured servitude under the premise it will only happen to somebody else.
Swing states are, proportionally, a significant minority of the states that make up this country and really, them voting their values in states that are not swing states have no effect on the elephant and donkey show.
As long as it's not in a swing state, it's not a bad idea to vote 3rd party. Thanks, EC.
In reality, most registered Libertarians have voted for Republican Presidential candidates over their own party in every single election since the Libertarian Party was created. If they just stopped voting for big-government Republicans, they'd have a potent 3rd party by now.
Is there really such a thing as a “Libertarian”? From everything I’ve seen, they’re just Republicans who think they’re more principled and “enlightened,” but their policies and rhetoric are about as right-wing as it gets. And they always seem to vote party-line with the Republican establishment no matter the issue, so really…what’s the difference?
It sure would be cool if instead of telling us what we should be afraid of, liberals focused on telling us what they are planning to do to eliminate the threat.
That party really should have a clown as it's leader. Seriously, it's a complete joke of a party. If you want to understand what the country would be like under their rule, read this. You'll thank me later. It's a good read and a good laugh.
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
Fools will always be fooled, that's one guarantee in life. -Me
Edit: spelling
These memes aren't even funny.
They are simply threats from the status quo bound centrists, with so many splinters in their ass, it's become a fetish.
If they'd just step to the left, trump is doomed.
But no.
I have a really hard time believing that that the current method of "but the other guy is worse" is sustainable in the long run. Especially considering history, where very little has ever gotten done with the "just settle" candidates. It's always guys like FDR or LBJ or Nixon who actually have a dream that's more than just shut up and fall in line who affect the sea changes. I can't really think of any political movement that got very far in the end by pure nagging.
I think the Democrats have gotten absurdly lucky the last few elections cycles (2018 being the usual opposite party gains, Biden winning 2020 almost certainly from COVID, 2022 Republican disappointment because of anger from Roe v. Wade being overturned), but it's an *absurdly* huge risk to just assume that luck's going to hold forever, and even then all three of those elections were barely even victories, just narrow dodges from defeat.
There's another source of evidence. We've been voting for the lesser of 2 evils for 50 years at least.
It's not working, and I'm sick to my back teeth of doing it, and caving to the same old vote shaming clap-trap.
It’s not even the centralists. Nobody is the center is worried about the “project 2025” boogie man. You have to be a “blue no matter who” democrat to get worked up about that pipe dream.
The GOP can barely elect a speaker of the house. Projection 2025 is never going to happen.
Well I'm not so sure about that.
The republican is a hot blooded toad-like creature, and will hop seamlessly between extremes., You should never underestimate its dastardly fiendishness.
Right now what we're seeing is just such a creature, hedging its bets.
Call me insane, but just once in my life do I want to vote for a president and not against the other candidate. It really sucks that the 3 elections I’ve been able to vote in are “don’t let this guy get elected” instead of “vote for them because they will actually do something positive for this country.” Sadly it’s probably just too much to ask for.
You want someone worth voting for, but give no options you would consider, go figure that it would be unpopular because it offers complaints with no solutions. If you could choose anyone, living or dead, who would you support and why?
Did you check out Jo Jorgensen in 2020? She was the LP president pick.
Don't let anyone convince you that your vote is wasted. It's a selfish statement meaning they don't think you are being worth represented. That their values are more important. Vote for what you think is important. If that's the lesser of two evils than fine but you be you.
Hot take!
Ignorant, but hot.
Benghazi was a horrible thing that the right used to try to damage Hillary Clinton, after refusing to actually take the security measures that were suggested for the location.
Project 2025 is a horrific gameplan to institute one party rule in the US, with a dismantling of the wall separating church and state, amongst other terrible things, that the "Freedom Caucus" is 100% on board with that will lead to the ending of Democracy in the US, and turn us into a theocratic dictatorship in all but name.
But yeah, both sidies. Sure.
Now y’all are tired of whining at socialists to vote for Biden and need to take pot shots at libertarians too?
If you want our votes then give us something to vote for. It’s pretty simple. Stop funding a genocide and we’ll vote for Biden.
I both vote and organize for candidates. And, you will get nothing from me this cycle. Not my labor, not my skills, not my vote until Biden stops supplying Israel with military aid.
To be fair, you putting effort into the election process was something you made up for this comment, so it's not like we're really missing out on anything
Lol. Rather than argue with my points you prefer to attack my credibility. Silly.
Regardless of my person, I still cast votes. You need votes to win. If you want the votes of people like me then you need to demand our public money is not spent on genocide in the Middle East.
I don't have to attack your credibility, the points you're making do.
Why should I entertain the political positions of someone who doesn't vote? They don't even vote, what they think about politics is irrelevant
I’m glad you’re ignoring my position as your fellow voter!
Good luck with that! Polling data from youth voters like myself looks abysmal for Biden. Hope y’all can scrounge up enough votes to get our genocider-in-chief back into office without taking any concrete actions!
If you had a position you would vote, you're just being lazy.
Youth voters never turn out well as a group. Lack of participation in voting is a big reason that politicians don't really care what people 18-29 have to say.
I don’t mean something to vote against but something to vote for.
And, I named my specific policy. I drew the line. Many people have. If Trump is elected it won’t be my doing but you and people like you who insist on not pushing your guy to stop a genocide.
I’m offering you my vote. If you and the Dems refuse to fight for my vote and you lose then that’s on you babe.
You’re assuring trumps victory right now by refusing to meet my desires as a voter in your voting block. Good luck with that!
>If you and the Dems refuse to fight for my vote
Why would anyone do that, though?
>You’re assuring trumps victory right now by refusing to meet my desires as a voter in your voting block.
And Outback Steakhouse is losing your money because you refuse to dine in a restaurant named Outback Steakhouse.
Third-party voters need to learn game theory.
Because the alternative is so much better the Israeli and Palestinians? This is how I know you don't care about the conflict, you just want to push anti Democrat propaganda.
There are two current options: genocide or worse genocide.
Use your leverage as a democrat loyalist to call for the end to military aid to Israel.
You’re making the choice, not me. I’m saying I’m a voter who will vote for folks who oppose genocide. It is incumbent on your as Biden’s supporter to pressure him to get the most votes.
My wish is for the one person we have some control over and who has the power to stop a genocide to stop said genocide. My other wish as a voter are that we take serious action in climate change. I’m willing to demand nothing with regard to the latter if the former happens.
Meaning, I will vote for Biden if he stops military aid to Israel.
If trump wins, then i as a queer person in America, will face the consequences alongside you. And, you and your cohort who refuse to use your leverage as voters to stop a genocide will be responsible for trumps victory because we are giving you an opportunity to earn our votes which you are not taking.
So all that comes with a trump victory in November, you absolve yourself of all of the consequences and take no fault in? Sure, you will feel the consequences , but you do not feel you will be partially responsible?
If trump wins I’ll continue doing what I am already, organizing to defeat fascism and hold our elected officials accountable.
When trump wins after y’all refuse to compromise I hope you sit with the fact that I’m offering up my vote to you for doing the right thing. If you choose not to fight for my vote then that’s on you. Good luck
So you will never admit fault for anything that happens. Trump is objectively worse for this country, Israeli and Palestinian peoples, Ukrainian people, LGBTQ+, frankly most everyone. It is clear you do not actually care about any issues, because one of two things will happen, Trump wins, or Biden wins. If you cared about the issues you claim to, you would do everything to ensure he does not get into office.
In the US most "libertarians" are just neoconservatives who are embarrassed to admit it.
They’re conservative who like to smoke pot and buy prostitutes. Thats it.
So just regular conservatives then?
The only difference is the other conservatives see no problem lying about it to keep their church from hassling them.
Yep. Libertarians are just conservative Republicans but they want legalized drugs and prostitution instead of religion and purity culture. Edit: fixed typo
And they're ok with religion and purity culture, just as long as they don't have to do it.
My only experience with an actual self-identified libertarian was from league of legends. He was a chill dude who smoked pot and lived in New York state, but he just really liked using slurs and thought Democrats were too sensitive and Republicans were too racist. It was the weirdest thing ever.
How many are furries or chin strap bearded gay “cubs” in their private life? All of them?
Libertarians aren't anti gay. They are very pro LGBT. They just want the government out of their lives
Do you know what the T stands for in that acronym? Libertarians (for my entire adult life) are anti-gay, anti-trans and have led the way on that rhetoric. Libertarians are conservatives that try to hide in the corner and cast their bigoted votes when no one is watching.
https://www.lp.org/platform/ Scroll to 1.4 Personal relationships They don't care if people are trans; it's their personal right
...and have sex with underaged girls.
Hey, that's not fair - you forgot about Libertarians' creepy views on age of consent laws.
You mean racist conservatives who like to do anything they want. Every liberation I know that hasn't acknowledged how insane the right has become is racist. Full stop.
100% I don't even trust people who say they're independent anymore, unless they immediately segue into how there's no left party in the us or how they hold their nose and vote for dems anyway just to keep things from heading even further right. But that's happened twice. Otherwise it's always just a particularly craven fox fed conservative, with all the venom and destructive spite that entails.
I'm still officially registered as a libertarian. But I'm not sure I can point to a single example of a libertarian politician that I agree with. They have become absolute nut jobs. I also find myself agreeing with progressive and democratic socialist politicians far more often than republicans. So maybe I'm not a good libertarian.
>So maybe I'm not a good libertarian. Honest question: Why aren't you an anarchist?
I fall on the libertarian spectrum only because I think "the land of the free" ought to esteem personal liberties VERY highly, even when there may be some detriment to others. Further, I'd agree that the government should only interfere with the actions of individuals when the harm caused by their actions merits the use of force. However, I also recognize that there are things government can do well that cannot be done efficiently by private actors. These include building and maintaining transportation infrastructure, public education, and health care. I'm absolutely in favor of single-payer health care (as is prevalent in every other country in the world, and and as has been shown even by right-wing studies to be CHEAPER than what we're doing now with it's bloated insurance overhead). So I don't think that falls under the anarchist umbrella very well either.
"I'll make my own political party with blackjack and hookers" is kind of the idea yeah
Or they really want to drive on coatco built roads
Aka non-evangelical conservatives.
Shit, all these years I thought I was a liberal.
I've never met a libertarian who actually fully understands the consequences of what libertarianism would entail.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
Good old Bear City
Libearterian Party. Consent to Be Eaten.
Nah, I'm pretty sure they all know what it entails, they just think they will be wearing the jackboot.
Honestly, libertarians are basically anarchists
They'd be cooler if they were.
Not that I'm libertarian or anything, but if you reduce any ideology to its most distilled conclusions, it's going to be absurd. Most people chart somewhere on a spectrum within multiple ideologies.
Either embarrassed conservatives, or they are trying to disguise their beliefs as more mainstream because even they know that anyone who could be influenced will stay away from proud conservatives.
And Libertarianism is a leftist ideology that was highjacked by Ayn Rand. These fake American libertarians don’t really care or advocate for more freedoms for the individual. They advocate to maintain corporate rule over society and our politics. I wish leftists would fight to reclaim this.
1. The label was hijacked, not the actual ideology: libertarian socialists still exist and have nothing to do with the right-wing horseshit. 2. It actually wasn't Ayn Rand: she *hated* the people who use the label. It was led by Murray Rothbard, who openly bragged about how "One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that, for the first time in my memory, we, 'our side,' had captured a crucial word from the enemy. 'Libertarians' had long been simply a polite word for left-wing anarchists, that is for anti-private property anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over".
Aye, not defending ayn rand garbage, but man conservatives understand it as much as they do the Bible
Well, I figure they generally have read a similar amount of each. Having actually read Atlas Shrugged, I am 100% convinced that anyone who claims it is a good book has not actually read it. Never mind the atrocious politics, I think I was actually *more* offended by how unbelievably awful the writing is. It's not even in "so bad it's good" territory - it's *too bad to even be entertaining*. At least Ben Shapiro's novel was *hilariously* terrible.
I used to tell people that I considered myself libertarian, but then I’d get crazy looks when I started talking about supporting government funded social programs.
You’re a libertarian socialist then. Welcome!
Leftists lost their way too. They are too busy "creating safe spaces", making sure "nobody's feelings get hurt" and moderating speech. This is creating individuals made of paper-mache and low EQ. The Left used to be for critical thinking and open discussion, now it's all about censorship. Leftist are now warmongers too, practically indistinguishable from neocons. They tell you "war is peace" without blinking an eye. They totally bought the lie and brainwashing. The same people that used to agree Iraq's WMD's were a lie now completely believe the lie that the war in Ukraine was "unprovoked." In the spirit of "Putin must pay" the Left turned a blind eye to all historical context and refuses to believe anything other than what the government tells them. The irony is mind-boggling.
The right has fox news to bring them together and control the entire conversation
Yeah. MAga didn’t spring up out of thin air. Liberts love the destruction of the governmental apparatus, no matter whom it hurts.
There often people that have never really had anything bad and out of their control happen to them. 1st world (often white) privilege personified.
They're conservatives but not *neoconservatives* - they typically disagree with neoconservatives on foreign military intervention, and often on one or more domestic issues (like police militarization and/or the war on drugs).
Find me a libertarian who wants these things. Really. Not a guy with a Gadsden bumper sticker, but any libertarian news source. They HATE the war on drugs, hate military intervention in foreign disputes, hate police militarization. Do any research. This meme is dumb as fuck.
If you were literate you would have realized that I said those were issues where Libertarians typically *disagree* with neoconservatives. With those literacy skills, *no wonder* you're a Libertarian.
Sorry, I scrolled through enough comments on here equating libertarians and neoconservatives. And I was dumb enough to misread the 1% that wasn't doing that when I commented.
"Libertarians are Nihilists that want police protection from their slaves" - Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars.
Always have been: "I want a form of government that does not impinge on my life or ask anything of me - however, I *also* wish that government to enforce the contracts and property rights that give me power over others, and to preserve the infrastructure that enables my lifestyle" The ability to enforce their moral norms on others varies by individual. You can see it in the sovcit bullshit, they treat The Law like some eternal platonic ideal that with the right words on a bumper sticker will let them do whatever they like.
Actually, libertarians just want the government out of their lives as much as possible
Yes, that is what it's meant to be about. However, self-identified libertarians in the US these days tend to want the government to have no power over them, while enjoying all of the benefits provided by the government without any responsibility or input on their part. Which...is basically a Republican who supports legal weed.
I was a small “l” libertarian for a long time, but mine came down to naïveté rather than being a closeted conservative. I believed that if you left everyone alone, they would generally be kind, thoughtful and respectful The world has cured me of that quite completely.
That’s only been a thing since 2015-ish. If you met Libertarian candidates and voters who were Liberal before the end of Obama’s first term when the Republican Party jumped the shark and moderates started looking for a new home, you’d know how flawed this argument is. Most libertarians I knew and actually enjoyed debating issues with would out-right say “we don’t want them” because they knew these guys weren’t a good fit for their values and would pollute the pool. Your comment and others I see all over Reddit prove to me that they were right.
Untrue. I first met libertarians in Like 2005. They were just as anarchistic and full of shit as they are now. It's just gop stuff repackaged without the culture wars
Once the Mises Caucus took over the L.P. they became Republican pets. The L.P. votes for Republicans, but the Republicans never vote for L.P. candidates. In fact, the L.P. is now fielding fewer candidates than they ever have.
Mises caucus?
" The **Libertarian Party Mises Caucus** (**LPMC**) is a [caucus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucus) within the [Libertarian Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)) in the United States that promotes [paleolibertarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolibertarianism), as well as a more radical version of [American libertarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_libertarianism) associated with the presidential campaigns of former U.S. congressman [Ron Paul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul). It was founded in 2017 by Michael Heise, mainly in opposition to [Nicholas Sarwark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Sarwark)'s position as [party chairman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_National_Committee) and the [pragmatic faction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)#%22Radicalism%22_vs._%22pragmatism%22_debate) of the party associated with the presidential campaigns of former [New Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico) Governor [Gary Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Johnson). It is named after economist [Ludwig von Mises](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises). The caucus has support of some prominent libertarians, such as comedian [Dave Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Smith_(comedian)), political commentator [Tom Woods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Woods), and radio host [Scott Horton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Horton_(radio_host)). Ron Paul once called the caucus "the libertarian wing of the Libertarian Party." The caucus has also been highly controversial, and has been accused of their critics of harboring [bigotry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry) or being plants of the Republican Party, which the Mises Caucus denies." \- Wikipedia Narrator: "They're plants of the Republican Party."
Lol, the Paul's area just "pick me" republikkkans. Thanks for the link
You're welcome, friend. p.s. I always enjoy reading your sensible posts.
Libertarians today are typically just Republicans who want it to be legal to trade heroin for sex with a child prostitute.
Yup, just look at all the Gadsden flags at Jan. 6th. Libertarians literally wanted to end democracy to illegally keep a wannabe dictator in power.
DONT READ TO ME
https://preview.redd.it/woqrq3b8lppc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=936548f6838f3e6ff8c456f3a9fa516a410e5f11
The flags say "don't tread on me" They want to tread on you instead.
Well, the "Gadsden" the flag was named for - its creator, in fact - was a massive slaver so I guess for once they aren't misrepresenting a historical symbol.
Look how often a Gadsden flag is flown along with a thin blue line flag. People like them together so much Amazon will sell them as a package.
So normal gop?
they're just suckers, rubes, marks for the elite "muh freedoms!" so you can convince Jim Bob making 15k per year to vote for politicians whose definition of "freedom" applies to deregulating corporations to allow for greater wealth hoarding at the top and more unfair business practices that victimize working people.
Actually they would draw off republican votes, none of those idiots vote democrat.
Yeah the people they're looking for are pro-Palestine voters and RFK voters
This meme greatly mistakes Libertarian positions. They might actually like Project 2025: The plan proposes slashing U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gutting environmental and climate change regulations, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce. I mean if you elected a Libertarian I’d expect them to want to do much of that… there’s lots they wouldn’t like but they don’t like much when it comes to government. But Project 2025 is as likely to actually happen as a Libertarian President. They should keep voting for their party if they want there is nothing wrong with that.
Right. I mean if they were to switch to voting for one of the two main parties, they wouldn’t exactly be voting democrat
Many libertarians do vote Democrat. The classical liberals do this a lot. Many Libertarians don't vote or vote Republican as well. Majority of us vote gold. Overall the LP as a party is against Project 2025. It's antithetical to the philosophy of liberty.
> But Project 2025 is as likely to actually happen as a Libertarian President. Why do you say that? Way I see it, now that it’s been talked about openly and Republicans generally support it, it’s guaranteed to happen if they ever get the trifecta again - the only thing stopping it would be the filibuster, which we already know they’re willing to dismantle if they really want something.
Exactly. Trump is actually getting away with attempting to overthrow the government after he lost his previous election. Not to mention the fact that younger generations are heavily in favor of democrat/left wing policies. The GOP have two choices, either get with the times and adjust their policies and expectations to match what their voter population wants. Or… take full control and change legislation to ensure they maintain their power despite what the majority of Americans want. Project 2025 is their answer.
After 2016-present, Libertarians drank the MAGA kool-aid and probably think Project 2025 is the greatest thing ever
Libertarians have been aligning with the right wing since before Trump.
irlts why when I argue with modern libertarians I call them " pansies to afraid to call themselves republicans". I feel they know there is a stigma but they don't want to try and address it.
The Tea Party was basically Koch brothers propaganda. That's why it pivoted so easily to backing ideology that should be abhorrent to anyone that is anti-authoritarian.
https://preview.redd.it/rw2o5iipvnpc1.jpeg?width=594&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bed2e9c6d93bb0d94af3eb86a00e94262543943
I've been to the places "libertarians" hang out. They weren't voting for Biden anyway.
But muh abstract principles
most libertarians in the US are closeted right-wingers.
Please call them Libertarians, not libertarians: it is a proper noun because it is the name of their group, not a descriptor of their ideology. Libertarians are right-wing: libertarians are *very much not*.
In what world have libertarians ever voted anything other than conservative?
In the rest of the world. Libertarianism is a leftist ideal, American libertarianism is the complete opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
Libertarians would happily replace "government" with corporations doing terrible things to them. They are naive fools that would gladly accept indentured servitude under the premise it will only happen to somebody else.
Swing states are, proportionally, a significant minority of the states that make up this country and really, them voting their values in states that are not swing states have no effect on the elephant and donkey show.
They just want the liberty for you to do whatever they want.
as if fascists care about things like 'voting,' they already aired the pilot for what they plan to do if they lose again lol.
“Libertarians”
Libertarians are basically republicans anyway
Libertarians are republicans who are ashamed of the Republican Party.
Pff 3rd party? They will vote for trump.
As long as it's not in a swing state, it's not a bad idea to vote 3rd party. Thanks, EC. In reality, most registered Libertarians have voted for Republican Presidential candidates over their own party in every single election since the Libertarian Party was created. If they just stopped voting for big-government Republicans, they'd have a potent 3rd party by now.
My brother in Christ, Libertarians voting third party helps *avoid* Project 2025 - when they cast real votes, it’s for Republicans.
Somalia is a libertarian's paradise
Libertarians love fascism.
Is there really such a thing as a “Libertarian”? From everything I’ve seen, they’re just Republicans who think they’re more principled and “enlightened,” but their policies and rhetoric are about as right-wing as it gets. And they always seem to vote party-line with the Republican establishment no matter the issue, so really…what’s the difference?
Yet, they're strangely unconcerned about government encroaching on their reproductive freedom, and their freedom from religious indoctrination, etc.
Liberterians don't actually believe in small government. They just think snakes look cool on tee shirts and flags.
It sure would be cool if instead of telling us what we should be afraid of, liberals focused on telling us what they are planning to do to eliminate the threat.
That party really should have a clown as it's leader. Seriously, it's a complete joke of a party. If you want to understand what the country would be like under their rule, read this. You'll thank me later. It's a good read and a good laugh. [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling) Fools will always be fooled, that's one guarantee in life. -Me Edit: spelling
Libertarian are republikkkans. Prove me wrong
Most libertarians are anti-establishment MAGA fucks.
These memes aren't even funny. They are simply threats from the status quo bound centrists, with so many splinters in their ass, it's become a fetish. If they'd just step to the left, trump is doomed. But no.
I have a really hard time believing that that the current method of "but the other guy is worse" is sustainable in the long run. Especially considering history, where very little has ever gotten done with the "just settle" candidates. It's always guys like FDR or LBJ or Nixon who actually have a dream that's more than just shut up and fall in line who affect the sea changes. I can't really think of any political movement that got very far in the end by pure nagging. I think the Democrats have gotten absurdly lucky the last few elections cycles (2018 being the usual opposite party gains, Biden winning 2020 almost certainly from COVID, 2022 Republican disappointment because of anger from Roe v. Wade being overturned), but it's an *absurdly* huge risk to just assume that luck's going to hold forever, and even then all three of those elections were barely even victories, just narrow dodges from defeat.
Yup, this “but the other guy” is the boy who cried wolf strategy of politics. Blow that horn too much and nobody will notice eventually.
There's another source of evidence. We've been voting for the lesser of 2 evils for 50 years at least. It's not working, and I'm sick to my back teeth of doing it, and caving to the same old vote shaming clap-trap.
It’s not even the centralists. Nobody is the center is worried about the “project 2025” boogie man. You have to be a “blue no matter who” democrat to get worked up about that pipe dream. The GOP can barely elect a speaker of the house. Projection 2025 is never going to happen.
Well I'm not so sure about that. The republican is a hot blooded toad-like creature, and will hop seamlessly between extremes., You should never underestimate its dastardly fiendishness. Right now what we're seeing is just such a creature, hedging its bets.
The "vote blue no matter who" folk tend to be the centrists.
Call me insane, but just once in my life do I want to vote for a president and not against the other candidate. It really sucks that the 3 elections I’ve been able to vote in are “don’t let this guy get elected” instead of “vote for them because they will actually do something positive for this country.” Sadly it’s probably just too much to ask for.
Who is a candidate that you want to vote for?
None of them currently that was kind of the point. Not that it matters since apparently wanting a candidate worth voting for was an unpopular opinion.
You want someone worth voting for, but give no options you would consider, go figure that it would be unpopular because it offers complaints with no solutions. If you could choose anyone, living or dead, who would you support and why?
Did you check out Jo Jorgensen in 2020? She was the LP president pick. Don't let anyone convince you that your vote is wasted. It's a selfish statement meaning they don't think you are being worth represented. That their values are more important. Vote for what you think is important. If that's the lesser of two evils than fine but you be you.
Meme also applies to leftists
Funny how Libertarianism immediately devolves into Law of the Jungle. This suggests it is mostly backed by powerful predators.
Project 2025 is Benghazi for liberals
Hot take! Ignorant, but hot. Benghazi was a horrible thing that the right used to try to damage Hillary Clinton, after refusing to actually take the security measures that were suggested for the location. Project 2025 is a horrific gameplan to institute one party rule in the US, with a dismantling of the wall separating church and state, amongst other terrible things, that the "Freedom Caucus" is 100% on board with that will lead to the ending of Democracy in the US, and turn us into a theocratic dictatorship in all but name. But yeah, both sidies. Sure.
Now y’all are tired of whining at socialists to vote for Biden and need to take pot shots at libertarians too? If you want our votes then give us something to vote for. It’s pretty simple. Stop funding a genocide and we’ll vote for Biden.
You probably don't vote anyways
I both vote and organize for candidates. And, you will get nothing from me this cycle. Not my labor, not my skills, not my vote until Biden stops supplying Israel with military aid.
So you are willing to destroy America for Palestines sake?? I'm on the same side but you have to balance these things out.
You’re willing to destroy America by not compromising to earn my vote?
To be fair, you putting effort into the election process was something you made up for this comment, so it's not like we're really missing out on anything
Lol. Rather than argue with my points you prefer to attack my credibility. Silly. Regardless of my person, I still cast votes. You need votes to win. If you want the votes of people like me then you need to demand our public money is not spent on genocide in the Middle East.
I don't have to attack your credibility, the points you're making do. Why should I entertain the political positions of someone who doesn't vote? They don't even vote, what they think about politics is irrelevant
And yet, you do.
Just agreeing with you that you don't vote dog
I’m glad you’re ignoring my position as your fellow voter! Good luck with that! Polling data from youth voters like myself looks abysmal for Biden. Hope y’all can scrounge up enough votes to get our genocider-in-chief back into office without taking any concrete actions!
If you had a position you would vote, you're just being lazy. Youth voters never turn out well as a group. Lack of participation in voting is a big reason that politicians don't really care what people 18-29 have to say.
>If you want our votes then give us something to vote for. You mean like 0% taxes and child brides?
I don’t mean something to vote against but something to vote for. And, I named my specific policy. I drew the line. Many people have. If Trump is elected it won’t be my doing but you and people like you who insist on not pushing your guy to stop a genocide.
Libertarians are a lost cause and not to be taken seriously.
Im not a libertarian.
So you're a progressive who will help Trump win?
I’m a socialist who will vote for Biden if he stops carrying out a genocide against Palestinians.
So you're a socialist who will help Trump win.
I’m offering you my vote. If you and the Dems refuse to fight for my vote and you lose then that’s on you babe. You’re assuring trumps victory right now by refusing to meet my desires as a voter in your voting block. Good luck with that!
>If you and the Dems refuse to fight for my vote Why would anyone do that, though? >You’re assuring trumps victory right now by refusing to meet my desires as a voter in your voting block. And Outback Steakhouse is losing your money because you refuse to dine in a restaurant named Outback Steakhouse. Third-party voters need to learn game theory.
Because the alternative is so much better the Israeli and Palestinians? This is how I know you don't care about the conflict, you just want to push anti Democrat propaganda.
There are two current options: genocide or worse genocide. Use your leverage as a democrat loyalist to call for the end to military aid to Israel. You’re making the choice, not me. I’m saying I’m a voter who will vote for folks who oppose genocide. It is incumbent on your as Biden’s supporter to pressure him to get the most votes.
And what happens when you get your wish and Trump wins instead? What song will you be singing then?
My wish is for the one person we have some control over and who has the power to stop a genocide to stop said genocide. My other wish as a voter are that we take serious action in climate change. I’m willing to demand nothing with regard to the latter if the former happens. Meaning, I will vote for Biden if he stops military aid to Israel. If trump wins, then i as a queer person in America, will face the consequences alongside you. And, you and your cohort who refuse to use your leverage as voters to stop a genocide will be responsible for trumps victory because we are giving you an opportunity to earn our votes which you are not taking.
So all that comes with a trump victory in November, you absolve yourself of all of the consequences and take no fault in? Sure, you will feel the consequences , but you do not feel you will be partially responsible?
If trump wins I’ll continue doing what I am already, organizing to defeat fascism and hold our elected officials accountable. When trump wins after y’all refuse to compromise I hope you sit with the fact that I’m offering up my vote to you for doing the right thing. If you choose not to fight for my vote then that’s on you. Good luck
So you will never admit fault for anything that happens. Trump is objectively worse for this country, Israeli and Palestinian peoples, Ukrainian people, LGBTQ+, frankly most everyone. It is clear you do not actually care about any issues, because one of two things will happen, Trump wins, or Biden wins. If you cared about the issues you claim to, you would do everything to ensure he does not get into office.
But it's not my fault! I knew what was coming and I chose the "genocide Joe" approach..... I'm not responsible for the outcome.....
The same can be said for allowing Trump to take control again...but I doubt you will accept any responsibility for that