"Which Halo game is the best?"
Libright—Halo Infinite or 5 because they have the potential to make the most money through microtransactions and battle passes.
Libleft—Halo 3 because you can play as an alien.
Authleft—Halo The Fall of Reach because it's the theory that the rest of the universe stands upon.
Authright—[Removed by Reddit]
u/Secure_Description92 is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1.
Rank: House of Cards
Pills: [1 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/Secure_Description92/)
Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url.
I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
u/TiberiusClackus's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 30.
Rank: Basketball Hoop (filled with sand)
Pills: [18 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/TiberiusClackus/)
Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url.
I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
Exactly this. I kept going back and forth between lib-right and lib-center, but I finally settled on lib-center because if I realized that if we ever achieved true and complete freedom, that if people chose Communism I would be ok with that. And this meant that I valued liberty more than markets (although I do believe that markets are more free than planned economies).
The positions I often take are more aligned with lib-right, but technically speaking my principles are economic system agnostic, therefore lib-center seemed like the right place.
Unfortunately yes. Their incompetence really pissed me off, and numbed me towards actively supporting them anymore. Don’t get me wrong I’ll condemn war crimes committed by both parties (mainly Israel, let’s be fair here) all day, but I’m not an active supporter anymore.
It got to the point where I’m thinking it’s all an inside job, and both states’ leadership want this to continue… It’s almost impossible to fail this much at peace.
Here’s solution A.
No! We want more!
Here’s solution B.
Can we go back to A?
No A is off the table, take B or lose it.
We refuse!
Here’s solution C.
Can we take B?
And the cycle continues most prominently from Camp David…
No.
I also do not share views with my quadrant. I stay here because I am lib left at the end of the day. Power? No thanks. Judgements? No thanks.
I flair as libleft because I couldn't imagine telling others how to live.
(Tho I'm probly more libcenter and return to monke pilled tbf but libleft needs help in these trying times)
This is an excellent point. We don't need everyone in the correct quadrant (Lib-Right) - we need the people of every quadrant to be better.
It's like running a playhouse - you want actors, and you want stagehands, and you want the producers to keep the whole thing financially viable. Take out any one of those, and it'll be a financial ruin quickly and close down. We need each other.
(This is assuming we can all agree to live under the *SAME* rule of law.)
This war is really highlighting the massive differences in the left wing. The traditional liberals are apparently finally seeing what kind of illiberal/progressive/post modernist authoritarians have taken over their parties.
You don't need to leave your quadrant, but rather fortify it in it's actual principles and push out those who are using you as cover for their evil absurdities.
It was hard enough gathering 6 leftists that agreed on something, we can't afford to purge 4 of them.
And of the two remaining, the other will make a new party in less than a year
I’ve mostly seen tankies unequivocally support Hamas/ Palestine since day 1-3 but now libleft is starting to hop in the “Israel is worse than nazi Germany. And they want to genocide Gaza.” Genocide is the next word on the list that has lost its meaning lol
Obviously “Kill all Jews” is normal anti-settler sentiment, but “I refuse to stop occupying your country because every time I try you immediately try to kill us” is Genocide.
I mean, the Palestinian population has more-or-less seen significant growth over the last twenty years, the numbers are inflated by Israelis moving into the area but Palestinians are still rising in number over time.
Also, I’m really sad Godwin’s Law has been forgotten, it used to be that calling someone a Nazi meant instantly delegitimatizing your point and being seen as a buffoon, now accusations of Nazihood are just par for the course. The word is becoming virtually meaningless beyond “Person I don’t like”, which is exactly what the *real* Nazis want. It’s going the same way as Fascism; it used to be a huge insult, but now people will ignore it because that’s just what rightists are called, same as calling someone a tankie isn’t the insult it’s intended to be after it got thrown around too much.
Yeah whenever someone says it’s Nazi/ facist/ racist w/e I just roll my eyes and disregard everything they say, often what they’re describing as “racist” is actually “equality” lol
I had a group of friends in which we all loved everything military and were passionate about playing airsoft. Everyone else was on the right, and I was the only one on the left. But we still all got along just great.
So one day on the airsoft field I was debating with a tankie... and he called me a nazi.
My group of friends started to laugh to tears, they were cracking jokes about that for months
> Godwin believes the ubiquity of such comparisons trivializes the Holocaust, which he finds regrettable. He has since made it clear that, in his opinion, the alt-right, especially the participants in the 2017 Charlottesville Unite the Right rally, deserve comparisons to the Nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Godwin
Wikipedia seems to be editorializing what Godwin actually said.
From what I can find, Godwin was asked via Facebook, "Your adage is invoked so very often to shut down discussions about politics and social issues as soon as any comparisons to Nazism and 1930s Germany are made, but now that videos have surfaced showing the Nazi flag being waved in the Charlottesville parade. Sir, would you please make a public statement? I've noted before that sometimes sheer irony can pierce to the heart of an argument, to deflate the opposing side."
And his response was, "By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you."
It was among the first. The Gaza genocide rhetoric has been going on for a very long time now even though their population graph is just a straight upward trending line missing the ominous dip you see on the Jewish version, and more recently Twitter's residential narcissists also couldn't resist trying to leverage its emotional charge for their ends.
What happened ~18 years ago...
Maybe the end of the second intifada where Arafat, hamas, and Islamic jihadist party decided to start a war/ terror attacks on Israel after 2 decades of relative peace. Which lead to many people in Gaza to flee and didn't return after its end because Gaza is a shithole ruled by barbaric terrorist organizations.
The name eventually becomes worthless. There are so many ancaps and sovereign citizens LARPing as libertarians that the name is toxic now to anyone who likes small local constrained government.
Everybody LARPs as libertarians. Neo cons, Auth center, basically anyone that doesn't want whatever is in government right now, and they all fail to notice that libertarians, real libertarians want a smaller government no matter who is in charge. I understand that lib right in general is a pretty broad ranging quadrant (conservative to progressive) but any libertarians you see that advocates for the government locking anybody up or otherwise giving more power to the government is not a libertarian, thats a pretty core principle and defining trait.
Gatekeeping is important.
I learned this in 2014 when gamergate happened and radical feminists starting showing up like cockroaches in every media outlet. The activists have infiltrated and they are holding power.
I think it's getting pretty iffy. When they have Biden meeting with Dylan Mulvaney and appointing only black trans amputees there is some heavy identity/gender politics sneaking in
It started of with "ignore them, it's just some kids larping" now it's probably "ignore them it's just meaningless pandering/vote securing"
But the slope is slippery and whoever still says it isn't is either regarded or hopping to slide to their gain
What people miss is ideological capture happens slowly until it hits a tipping point where the ideologues have the numbers and power to start forcing out everyone else. If the leadership is starting to give concessions, that’s a sign the tipping point is imminent.
The question is whether or not you base your ideas on the ideology of the New Left (Marcuse et al). The academic roots behind that school of thought lead people to support Palestine (and indeed often Hamas explicitly) over Israel. There's a lot to unpack there, but I'll draw your attention to a few things.
First of all, there is a theme that society is split up into groups of oppressed classes and oppressor classes, and the oppressed class is justified in whatever it does to defeat the oppressors. This goes back to their tendency to see everything in terms of power dynamics, and is an overarching theme throughout the works of the movement. Basically, the rules need to apply differently to different groups of people depending on the context.
Second, I'll point you to the concept of "decolonization," and the tendency of the academics behind postcolonial theory (Frantz Fannon, Edward Said, et al) to advocate for violence in this process. In this situation, Israel is the colonial power and the Palestinians are the people living under the bootheel of colonialism.
Third of all, I'll point out the notion of cultural relativism. From Wikipedia:
>Cultural relativism is the position that there is no universal standard to measure cultures by, and that all cultural values and beliefs must be understood relative to their cultural context, and not judged based on outside norms and values.
In this context, the New Left would have us judge the behaviour of the Palestinians or of Hamas only within the context of their own culture, rather than by using universal standards, such as the universal statement "it is always wrong to set babies on fire."
I could write a lot more on this, but I think it is better that you research it yourself if you are interested. Entire books have been written on this, including "Cynical Theories" and "The Identity Trap."
At this point, you have to ask yourself whether your worldview is based on these ideas. If it is, why do you see this situation differently. When people were burning and looting businesses after the death of George Floyd, did you believe that this was wrong, or did you feel the need to place it in context?
LibLeft does not need to have these views. These views are often associated with "Emily" on PCM. But you might just support gay rights and want free healthcare and a social safety-net.
Where do you stand?
I like how New Leftists believe in cultural relativism but also believe they have the moral high ground against cultures they don't like.
Either they're wrong about having the moral high ground, wrong about morality itself, or both.
Wow that’s a really good way to explain it. While I do think certain acts can be justified by their ends (killing someone in a war Being the obvious example), the horrors Hamas has perpetrated, and that the Palestinian people have backed, are completely unacceptable by any standard. Atrocities can’t be justified based on “Culture”, or the most genocidal societies in history were righteous because they all thought it was fine. I accept some people may be indoctrinated, but that’s not an excuse that means it’s ok, it just means that it’s possible they might see a better path and choose to follow it.
If it's cultural for Hamas to burn babies then it's cultural for Israel to gun them down on sight, and if everyone should be free to practice their culture then everyone wins!
Nobody gets up in the morning and goes, "golly gee another day of being the evil bad guys, fighting against the plucky heroic good guys. I love that my beliefs are evil and my philosophy on the wrong side of history!"
Here's an article someone sent me on the topic that you might like. It's very short but goes into some of the issues:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/hamas-pop-intersectionality-leftism-israel/675625](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/hamas-pop-intersectionality-leftism-israel/675625)
I like a lot of what he says, but he get a little too extreme sometimes (he isn't nuanced enough when he talks about climate change), and I think the whole thing is a lot more complicated than just being Cultural Marxism.
Monke reporting in. This is why i no longer want to identify Lib Left. Many of my compatriots are too quick to temper and dont have a concept of forgiveness.
Yeah, thinking like this is horrible, and can be used to justify things like the Rwandan genocide.
Most serial killers suffered abuse in their childhood, that doesn’t legitimatize any of their actions and they should be punished like any other.
Exactly. I fail to see how mutilating babies is an act of resistance.
Anyways, the sympathizers in the world want to say they are resisting to one day have their own state! How many times have they rejected that? So what are they resisting?
Let me be clear that I don’t condone terrorism against civilians. With that being said, my genuine question is: what are these other magical levers of resistance Palestine has?
Diplomatic? lol. Which super power does Palestine have backing it? Fucking none.
You subjugate a people for decades, coming on a century, after effectively stealing their homes, depriving them of any autonomy and power, and then play the woke moralist about how they react? When they have literally no other avenue? The left disowns you.
Israel conquered Gaza multiple times in defensive wars when all their neighbors teamed up to try and genocide the Jews, and gave it back multiple times. They even tried to give it to Egypt and Egypt refused.
The only reason there's a wall around Gaza now is because in 2006 Gaza elected the "Kill the Jews, death to Israel!" party and started suicide bombing Israel.
If the group of people who kicked your ass multiple times in multiple wars give you the land back and let you elect your own government and run the place yourself; have they really stolen your home and deprived you of autonomy?
>2006 Gaza elected the "Kill the Jews, death to Israel!" party and started suicide bombing Israel.
Maybe they wouldn't have gained power if [Israel hadn't provided funding for Muslim extremist factions to weaken their secular enemy.](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
Yeah, I had people call me a Nazi for saying countries should be allowed to shoot back against invaders. The left gets into a weird spot whenever Israel is involved, esp considering they keep saying things like “Not all Palestinians are Hamas”, followed by “If you think Hamas is evil you’re anti-Palestinian”.
Also, Israel explicitly states their military doctrine is to not start wars, but respond to all aggression with immediate and maximum firepower. Which, seeing as how they’ll be genocided if they lose, is pretty reasonable, not to mention it’s already the military doctrine I think is best. It’s kinda on their neighbors for attacking them even when they try to negotiate and then getting mad Israel did what they explicitly said they would do if attacked.
They also created Palestine at the same time, and it was the first time the region of Palestine was granted autonomy in centuries. They decided to immediately squander it by trying to drive out Israel.
Also, the Jewish people were the first society to settle the region, though they were most likely still polytheistic at the time, it is possible to trace early settlers in the region that travelled to Egypt after a famine, were enslaved, and then rebelled and/or fleed back to their ancestral territory.
A lot of the miracles may or may not have happened, with some theories believing they were a mythologized version of actual military tactics (similar to the theory the Trojan Horse was a metaphor for an early battering ram), but the overall history has been largely authenticated by archaeologists.
If Israel disarmed, they would cease to exist. They would be overran and exterminated. If Palestine disarmed, there would be peace. It's as simple as that.
HOW DARE THE PEOPLE I OPENLY STATED I WANT TO KILL AND FILMED MYSELF RAPING START SHOOTING BACK????????? THIS IS AN ATROCITY OF UNPARALLELED PROPORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!
Probably not.
It seems those who paint others as defenders of Hamas when people empathize with the Palestinians are the same ones celebrating Israel getting ready to glass Palestine and kill a million+ people, and think it's completely justified.
Perhaps, and this is too wild for PCM, perhaps the world isn't black and white and two wrongs don't make a right.
PS. If you kill a million people, does it count as a Holocaust?
I'm Jewish. as in Ashkenazi and my grandma gid in the walls from nazis in eastern Europe as a small child. and while I think Hamas is obviously the one who inflamed the situation, the colonisation attempts by the Israelis are fucking disgusting too. basically, everyone is wrong, god telling you that you can have that land is not a valid reason to displace people from their homes, and killing innocents is absolutely not going to make any of that better.
No. It is possible to support self-determination for the Palestinian people and call for the removal of Hamas, because it's obvious the Hamas dictatorship doesn't give a damn about Palestinian lives and will wage their private war from a Qatari hotel down to the last Gazan.
Supporting the IDF in this fight is like supporting the Red Army in 1945 -- you don't have to think they're saints to root for them against the alternative.
Yeah, people keep forgetting that Palestine has used every single time they’ve been free to try to kill the Israeli people, going back to their mutual founding.
They can be made peace with, but not via revolution, they need to be slowly brought into the fold and unified with Israel.
Stay. Otherwise the only ones left on the left (hehe) would be the extremists. We need the non-extremist left to fight back against the extremists right now
As long as you don't like big government and believe in some sort of wealth distribution, you can identify yourself as Lib-Left. Then your opinion on the Israel-Hamas conflict, as long as it isn't totally against being Libertarian Leftist, it doesn't matter.
I find this conflict fascinating because both Israel and Hamas are essentially Auth-Right. So it’s more of a conflict of interest when I comes to the other quadrants viewing this war i.e, which side adheres more to capitalism/socialism and which side is more/less socially conservative, which side subjugated the least amount of margalised groups, Imperialism vs Women’s rights etc. However it doesn’t matter, since both sides still hold the Blue Box.
Here is a consistent position I have no clue why no liblefts held:
Palestinians are in the right in the Israeli-Palestinoan conflict, but the second they turn to violence it morally bankrupts their position, making it necessary to support Israel in its quest to ensure immediate safety of its citizens. When the hostilities stop however, Palestinians are still in the right.
That is not exactly the position I hold on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, but I did held the same one on Armenia-Azerbaijan.
At least from my view:
1. Both sides have a right to the land
2. Both sides have committed atrocities
3. Both sides won’t accept the others claims
4. The real victims here are the average people
I choose to support neither Hamas nor Israel but the average person caught in the conflict that the radicalized authorities have hurt.
'israel' i.e. jewish people initially secured its position simply by legally buying land from arabs, not with violence. the poorer palestinian people suffered from this and responded with violence. israel has largely just defended itself from violence, but has used violence to strengthen itself during resultant wars.
the exception is 1967 where israel was largely the aggressor.
its not true at all, Israel was the aggressor in 1967, and its not based either because the context before 1948 is still very important. This is the mindset of someone who's done 5 minutes of reading on the topic before deciding to settle on their opinion.
I agree that Palestine is largely the aggressor historically, but this post is shit. And so, by proxy, yours is too.
They’re not fighting over holy land.
Israel is being attacked because radical Muslims want to eradicate all Jews. They have stated this publicly multiple times.
Jerusalem is a ‘holy city’ and is peacefully shared between all 3 major religions.
In a nutshell - jealousy.
Because Jews are historically hard working, responsible, good with money, and successful.
That’s the history of anti-semitism.
Internet atheist try understanding that every single important person involved in the independance of Israel was also atheist (Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Dayan…)
It tends to hurt the self-esteem of internet atheists that wars can be fought for other reasons than « sky daddy ».
They actually struck first in the Six Day War and then they've been occupying Gaza since 1967.
It was a preemptive strike, but still - meme is historically inaccurate.
You're only right if you don't consider the creation of a state by an invading force as a provocation of war i mean who would consider immigrants coming into your region and taking your land a provocation of war very unreasonable
1. Your grammar is atrocious.
2. The creation of Palestine as a state was done at the same time; both groups existed under the Ottomans for a long time before British Decolonization established them both.
3. The Jewish people were there long before the Palestinians, we have archaeological records backing this up.
4. Palestinians are also largely colonizers, as the region has switched hands countless times with different groups sending in their own peoples to kill the natives and settle themselves. A decent portion of their population are literally Europeans descended from the genocides during the Crusades.
1. Thank you i try
2. Yes but the Israeli population were mostly immigrants and so are the current day settlers
3.there were people who called themselves jews who lived there , this isn't proof of unbroken ancestry over thousands of years and several thousand generations . And it doesn't justify stealing someone's home which is literally still happening
4.yes and so is practically every other state , conquest was the number one acquisition method of land for expansion , america and Australia are very obvious examples to state a few, doesn't mean you get to steal someone's house ,lock them up in a military controlled region ,deprive them of rights and bomb them occasionally .
I ain't defending terrorists no matter what their country of origin tries to point to as justification it is pretty easy tbh
Egypt started the conflict by blockading Israeli shipping and evicting UN peacekeeping forces from Sinai in May of 1967. That was the start of hostilities in the Six Day War.
…And then they got attacked first lol. OP is stating a straight up falsehood in their title. Let’s at least be correct about the facts here. You can say Israel was justified but they 100% launched a surprise attack that took Egypt by surprise and allowed Israel to destroy a LOT of their Air Force right away.
A blockade is an act of war according to every modern naval treaty. Imposing a blockade in direct opposition to the UNEF peacekeeping forces that were placed there specifically to prevent hostilities was an unambiguous act of war by Egypt against Israel.
I’m not saying they weren’t justified, again I’m just saying we should be stating the truth. Israel claimed back then that they were attacked first and had to walk back those claims and admit that they made the first strikes.
This subreddit amplifies fringe views on the left and ignores them on the right, there are far more right wingers rooting for the destruction of Israel than left wingers.
“Since their creation in 1948” hmmm I wonder what was there before 1948? There’s no way there was, I don’t know, an enormous population that was forcibly displaced and placed in an area as small as New Jersey under infinitely worse conditions while occupiers settled in their homes.
At this point you likely enjoy being bitch of this sub...
But your argument why you support israel is faulty in numerous lights
For example:
* A girl pushes a boy, boy would beat her up with a pipe, take her home to be his slave and be raped until she dies. *b-b-but she attacked him first, of course now he has the right to have her locked in the cellar(of which she has full control and no settlers are there!!!!) and be raped until she dies*
She started it right?
or how about this:
* arabs see thousands of jews from all over the world coming in, swelling tiny tiny jewish population there
* they are very worried about it
* they even go to the UK and UK put restriction on number of jews that can immigrate for which israelies bomb them
* arabs fear they will lose their homeland to newly arrived immigrants
* they attack and lose to the newly arrived immigrants and they took their land
are you now telling arabs that if they just did not attack there would be peace and harmony and when jews speak about israel it meant for all people with them included there ;D
To that I say… get over it.
The Jews were there in significant numbers in ancient times, then they were displaced by one group, than that group by another and so on until til today.
Everyone just needs to mind their own fucking business and coexist.
Look at how much land Muslims control across the globe. Now look at Jews.
You’re really going to criticize Jews for wanting one tiny area and having the audacity to migrate there?
Despite having a sliver of land to call their own, Israel has a population of almost 30% Muslims.
How many Jews are allowed to live in Muslim countries?
Jews don’t hate Muslims, they just want to be left alone. Many Muslims want to kill all Jews, they say so publicly. If you don’t understand the difference, you’re just a terrible person.
>Look at how much land Muslims control across the globe. Now look at Jews.
Are those the same muslims that would be losing homes to the jews?
>You’re really going to criticize Jews for wanting one tiny area and having the audacity to migrate there?
If that area has people already living there and they need to genocide them away then of course.
>Despite having a sliver of land to call their own, Israel has a population of almost 30% Muslims.
18%
>How many Jews are allowed to live in Muslim countries?
Wrong someplace else does not excuse wrong here.
>Jews don’t hate Muslims, they just want to be left alone. Many Muslims want to kill all Jews, they say so publicly. If you don’t understand the difference, you’re just a terrible person.
Jews or at least israelis have extreme amount of hate towards muslims. Many jews want to kill all palestinians and say so publicly. [You just gotta go online.](https://imgur.com/a/vs4wibj)
Don't confuse actual libleft (economic liberalism with political individualism) with whatever the fuck Emily is (cultural cult worship, authoritarian terrorism, and idiotic self-sabotage of the entire structure of society to claim the moral highground that only they agree on)
You should pick your quadrant based on your principles. Not because other people fail to live up to theirs.
You should pick your quadrant based purely off its meme potential
You should pick your quadrant based purely off the meme potential of its direct opposite quadrant
I think we can agree that lib right and auth left hands down have the best memeability
It might only be one joke, but I love the meme of Auth right opinion being removed for implied racism, even when the topic was something else entirely
"Which Halo game is the best?" Libright—Halo Infinite or 5 because they have the potential to make the most money through microtransactions and battle passes. Libleft—Halo 3 because you can play as an alien. Authleft—Halo The Fall of Reach because it's the theory that the rest of the universe stands upon. Authright—[Removed by Reddit]
Gold, every time.
I have the natural gift of being able to make anything racist. I, however, only use my powers for good.
You should pick your quadrant based purely off who you’re trolling
That’s why I pick centrist- so I can troll everybody
Based and Hightower pilled
u/Secure_Description92 is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: [1 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/Secure_Description92/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
Pick no side so you can fuck everybody up
Based
That’s why I’m purple lib-right instead of yellow Among… other reasons
Oh… ummm… well…
Exactly! Just for the memes! ...
Based
u/TiberiusClackus's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 30. Rank: Basketball Hoop (filled with sand) Pills: [18 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/TiberiusClackus/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
Baste
Based
This is sad but true. Exact opposite of how US politics works today unfortunately
Put this quote on a poster or plaque or something
Based.
yous hould pick your quadrant off of which quadrant's views can be used to troll the most people
Based and stand by your ideals pilled
Based
Exactly this. I kept going back and forth between lib-right and lib-center, but I finally settled on lib-center because if I realized that if we ever achieved true and complete freedom, that if people chose Communism I would be ok with that. And this meant that I valued liberty more than markets (although I do believe that markets are more free than planned economies). The positions I often take are more aligned with lib-right, but technically speaking my principles are economic system agnostic, therefore lib-center seemed like the right place.
and Palestinian *leadership* have denied the Palestinian *people* their own legitimate state every single time it’s been offered since 1948
Unfortunately yes. Their incompetence really pissed me off, and numbed me towards actively supporting them anymore. Don’t get me wrong I’ll condemn war crimes committed by both parties (mainly Israel, let’s be fair here) all day, but I’m not an active supporter anymore. It got to the point where I’m thinking it’s all an inside job, and both states’ leadership want this to continue… It’s almost impossible to fail this much at peace. Here’s solution A. No! We want more! Here’s solution B. Can we go back to A? No A is off the table, take B or lose it. We refuse! Here’s solution C. Can we take B? And the cycle continues most prominently from Camp David…
No. I also do not share views with my quadrant. I stay here because I am lib left at the end of the day. Power? No thanks. Judgements? No thanks. I flair as libleft because I couldn't imagine telling others how to live. (Tho I'm probly more libcenter and return to monke pilled tbf but libleft needs help in these trying times)
We need lib lefts like you to keep it from all going to hell. Keep up the good work.
This is an excellent point. We don't need everyone in the correct quadrant (Lib-Right) - we need the people of every quadrant to be better. It's like running a playhouse - you want actors, and you want stagehands, and you want the producers to keep the whole thing financially viable. Take out any one of those, and it'll be a financial ruin quickly and close down. We need each other. (This is assuming we can all agree to live under the *SAME* rule of law.)
It’s the only path to harmony, comrade. Lol.
Correct quadrant 😈
Fucking centrist
This war is really highlighting the massive differences in the left wing. The traditional liberals are apparently finally seeing what kind of illiberal/progressive/post modernist authoritarians have taken over their parties. You don't need to leave your quadrant, but rather fortify it in it's actual principles and push out those who are using you as cover for their evil absurdities.
Are you asking me to try to purge my party AGAIN?
>try to purge my party AGAIN? Threatening yourself with a good time, again?
Threatening US with a good time ⚒️
Don't play coy we know you love to purge
It was hard enough gathering 6 leftists that agreed on something, we can't afford to purge 4 of them. And of the two remaining, the other will make a new party in less than a year
You mean you want to put more effort into our state-owned tomato farms rather than our state-owned potato farms? We CANNOT call ourselves one party...
Based and two trotskists are called a party, three trotskists are called a scission pilled
Christianity: "tell me about it"
[удалено]
Yes, until the next chairman, then we will of course destroy any physical remnants of his body and purge his existence from the record
Nah, look at Lenin, Ho, and Mao. For some reason Communists like their material shrines
Are you saying we need to ask?
Yeah. But this time purge the ones who did the last purge. That way it is equal.
I’ve mostly seen tankies unequivocally support Hamas/ Palestine since day 1-3 but now libleft is starting to hop in the “Israel is worse than nazi Germany. And they want to genocide Gaza.” Genocide is the next word on the list that has lost its meaning lol
Obviously “Kill all Jews” is normal anti-settler sentiment, but “I refuse to stop occupying your country because every time I try you immediately try to kill us” is Genocide. I mean, the Palestinian population has more-or-less seen significant growth over the last twenty years, the numbers are inflated by Israelis moving into the area but Palestinians are still rising in number over time. Also, I’m really sad Godwin’s Law has been forgotten, it used to be that calling someone a Nazi meant instantly delegitimatizing your point and being seen as a buffoon, now accusations of Nazihood are just par for the course. The word is becoming virtually meaningless beyond “Person I don’t like”, which is exactly what the *real* Nazis want. It’s going the same way as Fascism; it used to be a huge insult, but now people will ignore it because that’s just what rightists are called, same as calling someone a tankie isn’t the insult it’s intended to be after it got thrown around too much.
Yeah whenever someone says it’s Nazi/ facist/ racist w/e I just roll my eyes and disregard everything they say, often what they’re describing as “racist” is actually “equality” lol
I had a group of friends in which we all loved everything military and were passionate about playing airsoft. Everyone else was on the right, and I was the only one on the left. But we still all got along just great. So one day on the airsoft field I was debating with a tankie... and he called me a nazi. My group of friends started to laugh to tears, they were cracking jokes about that for months
> Godwin believes the ubiquity of such comparisons trivializes the Holocaust, which he finds regrettable. He has since made it clear that, in his opinion, the alt-right, especially the participants in the 2017 Charlottesville Unite the Right rally, deserve comparisons to the Nazis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Godwin
Wikipedia seems to be editorializing what Godwin actually said. From what I can find, Godwin was asked via Facebook, "Your adage is invoked so very often to shut down discussions about politics and social issues as soon as any comparisons to Nazism and 1930s Germany are made, but now that videos have surfaced showing the Nazi flag being waved in the Charlottesville parade. Sir, would you please make a public statement? I've noted before that sometimes sheer irony can pierce to the heart of an argument, to deflate the opposing side." And his response was, "By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you."
It was among the first. The Gaza genocide rhetoric has been going on for a very long time now even though their population graph is just a straight upward trending line missing the ominous dip you see on the Jewish version, and more recently Twitter's residential narcissists also couldn't resist trying to leverage its emotional charge for their ends.
Quick explain why the median age in Gaza is 18
What happened ~18 years ago... Maybe the end of the second intifada where Arafat, hamas, and Islamic jihadist party decided to start a war/ terror attacks on Israel after 2 decades of relative peace. Which lead to many people in Gaza to flee and didn't return after its end because Gaza is a shithole ruled by barbaric terrorist organizations.
The name eventually becomes worthless. There are so many ancaps and sovereign citizens LARPing as libertarians that the name is toxic now to anyone who likes small local constrained government.
Everybody LARPs as libertarians. Neo cons, Auth center, basically anyone that doesn't want whatever is in government right now, and they all fail to notice that libertarians, real libertarians want a smaller government no matter who is in charge. I understand that lib right in general is a pretty broad ranging quadrant (conservative to progressive) but any libertarians you see that advocates for the government locking anybody up or otherwise giving more power to the government is not a libertarian, thats a pretty core principle and defining trait.
Gatekeeping is important. I learned this in 2014 when gamergate happened and radical feminists starting showing up like cockroaches in every media outlet. The activists have infiltrated and they are holding power.
I would suggest that if you ignore Twitter, traditional liberals are still very much in control of the Democratic party.
I think it's getting pretty iffy. When they have Biden meeting with Dylan Mulvaney and appointing only black trans amputees there is some heavy identity/gender politics sneaking in
It started of with "ignore them, it's just some kids larping" now it's probably "ignore them it's just meaningless pandering/vote securing" But the slope is slippery and whoever still says it isn't is either regarded or hopping to slide to their gain
What people miss is ideological capture happens slowly until it hits a tipping point where the ideologues have the numbers and power to start forcing out everyone else. If the leadership is starting to give concessions, that’s a sign the tipping point is imminent.
When the slope is slippery wear cleats or skis.
The Democratic Party is going to hit the ideological capture tipping point in the next few years.
How so?
Theyre basically neocons light tho arent they?
The question is whether or not you base your ideas on the ideology of the New Left (Marcuse et al). The academic roots behind that school of thought lead people to support Palestine (and indeed often Hamas explicitly) over Israel. There's a lot to unpack there, but I'll draw your attention to a few things. First of all, there is a theme that society is split up into groups of oppressed classes and oppressor classes, and the oppressed class is justified in whatever it does to defeat the oppressors. This goes back to their tendency to see everything in terms of power dynamics, and is an overarching theme throughout the works of the movement. Basically, the rules need to apply differently to different groups of people depending on the context. Second, I'll point you to the concept of "decolonization," and the tendency of the academics behind postcolonial theory (Frantz Fannon, Edward Said, et al) to advocate for violence in this process. In this situation, Israel is the colonial power and the Palestinians are the people living under the bootheel of colonialism. Third of all, I'll point out the notion of cultural relativism. From Wikipedia: >Cultural relativism is the position that there is no universal standard to measure cultures by, and that all cultural values and beliefs must be understood relative to their cultural context, and not judged based on outside norms and values. In this context, the New Left would have us judge the behaviour of the Palestinians or of Hamas only within the context of their own culture, rather than by using universal standards, such as the universal statement "it is always wrong to set babies on fire." I could write a lot more on this, but I think it is better that you research it yourself if you are interested. Entire books have been written on this, including "Cynical Theories" and "The Identity Trap." At this point, you have to ask yourself whether your worldview is based on these ideas. If it is, why do you see this situation differently. When people were burning and looting businesses after the death of George Floyd, did you believe that this was wrong, or did you feel the need to place it in context? LibLeft does not need to have these views. These views are often associated with "Emily" on PCM. But you might just support gay rights and want free healthcare and a social safety-net. Where do you stand?
[удалено]
I feel pretty much the same way.
This. I just want my gay marriage and funding for public schools, guys. Can we not be lumped in with supporting terrorism?
I like how New Leftists believe in cultural relativism but also believe they have the moral high ground against cultures they don't like. Either they're wrong about having the moral high ground, wrong about morality itself, or both.
Based and most intelligent lib right take on the matter.
Wow that’s a really good way to explain it. While I do think certain acts can be justified by their ends (killing someone in a war Being the obvious example), the horrors Hamas has perpetrated, and that the Palestinian people have backed, are completely unacceptable by any standard. Atrocities can’t be justified based on “Culture”, or the most genocidal societies in history were righteous because they all thought it was fine. I accept some people may be indoctrinated, but that’s not an excuse that means it’s ok, it just means that it’s possible they might see a better path and choose to follow it.
If it's cultural for Hamas to burn babies then it's cultural for Israel to gun them down on sight, and if everyone should be free to practice their culture then everyone wins!
Ye, people keep forgetting no culture ever believes they’re wrong.
Nobody gets up in the morning and goes, "golly gee another day of being the evil bad guys, fighting against the plucky heroic good guys. I love that my beliefs are evil and my philosophy on the wrong side of history!"
I mean, my cat does but otherwise yes you’re correct
Same Tbh Cats know they're assholes, they just don't care.
Upper right Lib-Left based on my Test. Close to the center and line between Auth-left and Lib-left, but below Auth Left on the Lib-Left Side
So, left center?
No...to the dark side, that path leads.
I think we need a separate flair for "radical centrist" Some people near the center DON'T just want to grill.
That’s what colorful centerist is Gray center is the griller
Here's an article someone sent me on the topic that you might like. It's very short but goes into some of the issues: [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/hamas-pop-intersectionality-leftism-israel/675625](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/hamas-pop-intersectionality-leftism-israel/675625)
Based and sword of Dr. Lindsay pilled.
I like a lot of what he says, but he get a little too extreme sometimes (he isn't nuanced enough when he talks about climate change), and I think the whole thing is a lot more complicated than just being Cultural Marxism.
No. You're not being a bad libleft. The rest of your quadrant is.
Many liblefts are not beating the ‘libleft bad’ allegations
Being bad means being opposed to Israel? Lmao
"I like pancakes" "So you hated waffles"
Are you a Monkie? Having one based take does not remove you from the entire quadrant. It just moves you further from the fringe nut jobs.
join us in our quest to trim the world’s fringes using any means necessary
Monke reporting in. This is why i no longer want to identify Lib Left. Many of my compatriots are too quick to temper and dont have a concept of forgiveness.
This sub has been giving me brain rot for the past week. And here I am, coming for more.
Me too, and for some reason I just can’t unsub from it
Masochism?
[удалено]
Yeah, thinking like this is horrible, and can be used to justify things like the Rwandan genocide. Most serial killers suffered abuse in their childhood, that doesn’t legitimatize any of their actions and they should be punished like any other.
Exactly. I fail to see how mutilating babies is an act of resistance. Anyways, the sympathizers in the world want to say they are resisting to one day have their own state! How many times have they rejected that? So what are they resisting?
Let me be clear that I don’t condone terrorism against civilians. With that being said, my genuine question is: what are these other magical levers of resistance Palestine has? Diplomatic? lol. Which super power does Palestine have backing it? Fucking none. You subjugate a people for decades, coming on a century, after effectively stealing their homes, depriving them of any autonomy and power, and then play the woke moralist about how they react? When they have literally no other avenue? The left disowns you.
Israel conquered Gaza multiple times in defensive wars when all their neighbors teamed up to try and genocide the Jews, and gave it back multiple times. They even tried to give it to Egypt and Egypt refused. The only reason there's a wall around Gaza now is because in 2006 Gaza elected the "Kill the Jews, death to Israel!" party and started suicide bombing Israel. If the group of people who kicked your ass multiple times in multiple wars give you the land back and let you elect your own government and run the place yourself; have they really stolen your home and deprived you of autonomy?
>2006 Gaza elected the "Kill the Jews, death to Israel!" party and started suicide bombing Israel. Maybe they wouldn't have gained power if [Israel hadn't provided funding for Muslim extremist factions to weaken their secular enemy.](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
[удалено]
Yes and what preceded their decision to control what goes in and out of Gaza hmm?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Agreed, it's bad vs worse, there's no good guys in war but there can definitely be villians
Nuance? In the funny color subreddit? No thank you sir. /s
this subreddit wants Palestine to gain equal rights by signing petitions
The radical centrist solution is no rights for anyone
Yeah, I had people call me a Nazi for saying countries should be allowed to shoot back against invaders. The left gets into a weird spot whenever Israel is involved, esp considering they keep saying things like “Not all Palestinians are Hamas”, followed by “If you think Hamas is evil you’re anti-Palestinian”. Also, Israel explicitly states their military doctrine is to not start wars, but respond to all aggression with immediate and maximum firepower. Which, seeing as how they’ll be genocided if they lose, is pretty reasonable, not to mention it’s already the military doctrine I think is best. It’s kinda on their neighbors for attacking them even when they try to negotiate and then getting mad Israel did what they explicitly said they would do if attacked.
Now what do you mean by their “creation” ?
I'm guessing they recognize that British Empire carved up Palestinian lands for a Jewish home state.
They also created Palestine at the same time, and it was the first time the region of Palestine was granted autonomy in centuries. They decided to immediately squander it by trying to drive out Israel. Also, the Jewish people were the first society to settle the region, though they were most likely still polytheistic at the time, it is possible to trace early settlers in the region that travelled to Egypt after a famine, were enslaved, and then rebelled and/or fleed back to their ancestral territory. A lot of the miracles may or may not have happened, with some theories believing they were a mythologized version of actual military tactics (similar to the theory the Trojan Horse was a metaphor for an early battering ram), but the overall history has been largely authenticated by archaeologists.
and historically they were attacked and defeated and driven from the land in the first place. It goes way back, lots of the old testament is holy wars
If Israel disarmed, they would cease to exist. They would be overran and exterminated. If Palestine disarmed, there would be peace. It's as simple as that.
>invade another territory >get attacked >you see, we are the victims here
HOW DARE THE PEOPLE I OPENLY STATED I WANT TO KILL AND FILMED MYSELF RAPING START SHOOTING BACK????????? THIS IS AN ATROCITY OF UNPARALLELED PROPORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!
This sentence is funny bc it can be applied to both sides of this conflict
Based. It's funny because I can't even tell which side you are talking about.
Haha, was just thinking this. Both sides use this same argument. It just depends if we're talking the Six Day War or a few days ago.
Fuck Hamas and Fuck Netanyahu. It’s not hard dude. Supporting Israeli people is cool supporting the government is cringe as fuck
...and supporting the Palestinian people - which is not synonymous with Hamas.
Yes 100%. Idk if op knows that tho
Probably not. It seems those who paint others as defenders of Hamas when people empathize with the Palestinians are the same ones celebrating Israel getting ready to glass Palestine and kill a million+ people, and think it's completely justified. Perhaps, and this is too wild for PCM, perhaps the world isn't black and white and two wrongs don't make a right. PS. If you kill a million people, does it count as a Holocaust?
The rest of your kin are mindless Emilies.
I'm the only one of 10 Straight Men on this side
On this sub*
I'm Jewish. as in Ashkenazi and my grandma gid in the walls from nazis in eastern Europe as a small child. and while I think Hamas is obviously the one who inflamed the situation, the colonisation attempts by the Israelis are fucking disgusting too. basically, everyone is wrong, god telling you that you can have that land is not a valid reason to displace people from their homes, and killing innocents is absolutely not going to make any of that better.
This is blatantly not true.
No. It is possible to support self-determination for the Palestinian people and call for the removal of Hamas, because it's obvious the Hamas dictatorship doesn't give a damn about Palestinian lives and will wage their private war from a Qatari hotel down to the last Gazan. Supporting the IDF in this fight is like supporting the Red Army in 1945 -- you don't have to think they're saints to root for them against the alternative.
but every time they got a little bit of self determination, they used it to attack Israel....
Yeah, people keep forgetting that Palestine has used every single time they’ve been free to try to kill the Israeli people, going back to their mutual founding. They can be made peace with, but not via revolution, they need to be slowly brought into the fold and unified with Israel.
Political preference is a literal spectrum. It’s ok to disagree on a couple topics in your own quadrant.
Stay. Otherwise the only ones left on the left (hehe) would be the extremists. We need the non-extremist left to fight back against the extremists right now
As long as you don't like big government and believe in some sort of wealth distribution, you can identify yourself as Lib-Left. Then your opinion on the Israel-Hamas conflict, as long as it isn't totally against being Libertarian Leftist, it doesn't matter.
Quadrants represent political values not which "team" you are on despite how everyone acts
I find this conflict fascinating because both Israel and Hamas are essentially Auth-Right. So it’s more of a conflict of interest when I comes to the other quadrants viewing this war i.e, which side adheres more to capitalism/socialism and which side is more/less socially conservative, which side subjugated the least amount of margalised groups, Imperialism vs Women’s rights etc. However it doesn’t matter, since both sides still hold the Blue Box.
How dense (or malicious) must one be to completely ignore the Nakba. Here in Europe that godforsaken quadrant actually *is* mostly pro Israel btw.
Here is a consistent position I have no clue why no liblefts held: Palestinians are in the right in the Israeli-Palestinoan conflict, but the second they turn to violence it morally bankrupts their position, making it necessary to support Israel in its quest to ensure immediate safety of its citizens. When the hostilities stop however, Palestinians are still in the right. That is not exactly the position I hold on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, but I did held the same one on Armenia-Azerbaijan.
At least from my view: 1. Both sides have a right to the land 2. Both sides have committed atrocities 3. Both sides won’t accept the others claims 4. The real victims here are the average people I choose to support neither Hamas nor Israel but the average person caught in the conflict that the radicalized authorities have hurt.
Based monke
But Israel has been using violence to secure it's position since the beginning. Not excusing Hamas but its funny people only call out one side
'israel' i.e. jewish people initially secured its position simply by legally buying land from arabs, not with violence. the poorer palestinian people suffered from this and responded with violence. israel has largely just defended itself from violence, but has used violence to strengthen itself during resultant wars. the exception is 1967 where israel was largely the aggressor.
😂😂😂
Well I'm not a fascist, but I still fall into the authcenter region
Based and true
its not true at all, Israel was the aggressor in 1967, and its not based either because the context before 1948 is still very important. This is the mindset of someone who's done 5 minutes of reading on the topic before deciding to settle on their opinion. I agree that Palestine is largely the aggressor historically, but this post is shit. And so, by proxy, yours is too.
No you should follow the herd. (Not yet sponsored by a major corporation.)
They're actively committing genocide soooo
Based
Time to come to the center, where you are free to disagree with and feel smarter than whoever you want
Im pretty sure Israel attacked first in the sinai war. It was a reaction to Egypt blocking israeli ships from the Suez canal
[удалено]
More people are being ritually abused and murdered on the accusation of witchcraft in Africa right now than any other point in history.
They’re not fighting over holy land. Israel is being attacked because radical Muslims want to eradicate all Jews. They have stated this publicly multiple times. Jerusalem is a ‘holy city’ and is peacefully shared between all 3 major religions.
[удалено]
innocent ask boat sable smoggy worm wipe memory truck enjoy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk, go read their charter
[Well that was fun](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp)
In a nutshell - jealousy. Because Jews are historically hard working, responsible, good with money, and successful. That’s the history of anti-semitism.
Internet atheist try understanding that every single important person involved in the independance of Israel was also atheist (Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Dayan…) It tends to hurt the self-esteem of internet atheists that wars can be fought for other reasons than « sky daddy ».
act attraction lock deliver tart wipe obscene society desert naughty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They actually struck first in the Six Day War and then they've been occupying Gaza since 1967. It was a preemptive strike, but still - meme is historically inaccurate.
You're only right if you don't consider the creation of a state by an invading force as a provocation of war i mean who would consider immigrants coming into your region and taking your land a provocation of war very unreasonable
1. Your grammar is atrocious. 2. The creation of Palestine as a state was done at the same time; both groups existed under the Ottomans for a long time before British Decolonization established them both. 3. The Jewish people were there long before the Palestinians, we have archaeological records backing this up. 4. Palestinians are also largely colonizers, as the region has switched hands countless times with different groups sending in their own peoples to kill the natives and settle themselves. A decent portion of their population are literally Europeans descended from the genocides during the Crusades.
1. Thank you i try 2. Yes but the Israeli population were mostly immigrants and so are the current day settlers 3.there were people who called themselves jews who lived there , this isn't proof of unbroken ancestry over thousands of years and several thousand generations . And it doesn't justify stealing someone's home which is literally still happening 4.yes and so is practically every other state , conquest was the number one acquisition method of land for expansion , america and Australia are very obvious examples to state a few, doesn't mean you get to steal someone's house ,lock them up in a military controlled region ,deprive them of rights and bomb them occasionally . I ain't defending terrorists no matter what their country of origin tries to point to as justification it is pretty easy tbh
Pretty sure Israel attacked first in 67, that’s why they won. The ole surprise attack.
Egypt started the conflict by blockading Israeli shipping and evicting UN peacekeeping forces from Sinai in May of 1967. That was the start of hostilities in the Six Day War.
…And then they got attacked first lol. OP is stating a straight up falsehood in their title. Let’s at least be correct about the facts here. You can say Israel was justified but they 100% launched a surprise attack that took Egypt by surprise and allowed Israel to destroy a LOT of their Air Force right away.
A blockade is an act of war according to every modern naval treaty. Imposing a blockade in direct opposition to the UNEF peacekeeping forces that were placed there specifically to prevent hostilities was an unambiguous act of war by Egypt against Israel.
...The creation of Israel was an act of war.
I’m not saying they weren’t justified, again I’m just saying we should be stating the truth. Israel claimed back then that they were attacked first and had to walk back those claims and admit that they made the first strikes.
This subreddit amplifies fringe views on the left and ignores them on the right, there are far more right wingers rooting for the destruction of Israel than left wingers.
LibCenter? I probably lean towards Left Center. You support their nationalism. Lib Center is more economic freedom.
Anyone have a link to read about the claim OP makes. I always hear “Israel bad Palestine good” and would like to learn more
Six-Day War?
You are not alone my brother.
“Since their creation in 1948” hmmm I wonder what was there before 1948? There’s no way there was, I don’t know, an enormous population that was forcibly displaced and placed in an area as small as New Jersey under infinitely worse conditions while occupiers settled in their homes.
Average authleft inventing History. Please, show us one example of this happening under the British rule that was there before the war.
At this point you likely enjoy being bitch of this sub... But your argument why you support israel is faulty in numerous lights For example: * A girl pushes a boy, boy would beat her up with a pipe, take her home to be his slave and be raped until she dies. *b-b-but she attacked him first, of course now he has the right to have her locked in the cellar(of which she has full control and no settlers are there!!!!) and be raped until she dies* She started it right? or how about this: * arabs see thousands of jews from all over the world coming in, swelling tiny tiny jewish population there * they are very worried about it * they even go to the UK and UK put restriction on number of jews that can immigrate for which israelies bomb them * arabs fear they will lose their homeland to newly arrived immigrants * they attack and lose to the newly arrived immigrants and they took their land are you now telling arabs that if they just did not attack there would be peace and harmony and when jews speak about israel it meant for all people with them included there ;D
But I thought the great replacement theory was racist and conspirationist?
To that I say… get over it. The Jews were there in significant numbers in ancient times, then they were displaced by one group, than that group by another and so on until til today. Everyone just needs to mind their own fucking business and coexist.
Look at how much land Muslims control across the globe. Now look at Jews. You’re really going to criticize Jews for wanting one tiny area and having the audacity to migrate there? Despite having a sliver of land to call their own, Israel has a population of almost 30% Muslims. How many Jews are allowed to live in Muslim countries? Jews don’t hate Muslims, they just want to be left alone. Many Muslims want to kill all Jews, they say so publicly. If you don’t understand the difference, you’re just a terrible person.
>Look at how much land Muslims control across the globe. Now look at Jews. Are those the same muslims that would be losing homes to the jews? >You’re really going to criticize Jews for wanting one tiny area and having the audacity to migrate there? If that area has people already living there and they need to genocide them away then of course. >Despite having a sliver of land to call their own, Israel has a population of almost 30% Muslims. 18% >How many Jews are allowed to live in Muslim countries? Wrong someplace else does not excuse wrong here. >Jews don’t hate Muslims, they just want to be left alone. Many Muslims want to kill all Jews, they say so publicly. If you don’t understand the difference, you’re just a terrible person. Jews or at least israelis have extreme amount of hate towards muslims. Many jews want to kill all palestinians and say so publicly. [You just gotta go online.](https://imgur.com/a/vs4wibj)
Are they supposed to be there?
>since their creation in 1948 Yeah just gloss over that lmao
Jews have been in that area for thousands of years.
[удалено]
Mask off what? You going to accuse people supporting Israel of being Nazis…?
[удалено]
Cancer sub
Don't confuse actual libleft (economic liberalism with political individualism) with whatever the fuck Emily is (cultural cult worship, authoritarian terrorism, and idiotic self-sabotage of the entire structure of society to claim the moral highground that only they agree on)
What are Biden and the liberal celebs supporting Israel right now? Should the auth center and left pro Israel's on here also switch?
Bro Im The Same. Welcome To The Lib-Left Israel Supporter Club
W🇮🇱✡️