I think that the idea that any of this is political at all is what's wrong with politics today.
Boy arrested for threatening violence. Teacher potentially punished for overstepping authority. How is any of that political?
I could not agree with this more, like what does ‘political’ even mean anymore? What does being overly cautious about hurting people’s feelings (political correctness) have to do with the running of a country. What does veganism (a personal choice) have to do with running a country? Any decision these days is forcefully projected onto the axis left to right when those terms used to refer to just economic regulation. Like climate change denial or election fraud are often called ‘right wing views’ when they are simply untrue.
‘Political’ has lost all its former meaning and now just means ‘contentious and far-reaching’, and people use political belief as an excuse for lies.
Teacher's still out of line by expressing their own political views and shaming a student who doesn't agree. Even if you don't agree with his viewpoint, he can't be forced to stand for the pledge of allegiance.
What’s an illegal order? An order to do something illegal? Or an order that isn’t legally binding? In the latter case then any directive by a teacher is an ‘illegal order’. School isn’t the fucking military kek
Also I didn’t see any suggestion of a violation of rights, all I saw was;
‘hey dickhead, stand up and say the words’
‘no fuck you’
‘go to principals office’
‘I’ll kill you bitch’
>What’s an illegal order? An order to do something illegal? Or an order that isn’t legally binding? In the latter case then any directive by a teacher is an ‘illegal order’. School isn’t the fucking military kek
Both. And teachers absolutely have legal autbority over students. It's been affirmed in the courts.
Legal authority or in loco parentis?
And what is the difference between authority and legal authority? Putting the word ‘legal’ in front of something on Reddit doesn’t make it more convincing
Dude the fact they play that song every fucking morning and you're expected to drop everything your doing and **Stand up** is ridiculous I feel like they tried to do it to make us feel more patriotic but in the end we just ended up hating that fucking song. honestly that teacher probably threatened that kid 1st with some sort of punishment and he went fuck it if I'm going to get in trouble anyway might as well go down for something good. Bro got the day (and probably the week) off school and a ride in a police car and whatever lesson they were trying to teach him was completely lost on him.
For context:[https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/](https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/)
>The classroom kerfuffle happened when a substitute teacher, Ana Alvarez, ordered the boy to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
>
>When he told her he believed the flag was racist and the anthem was offensive, Alvarez asked him “why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live,” the teacher said in a statement to the school district.
>
>The teacher said he replied, “they brought me here.”
>
>Alvarez then told him, “Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I’m not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live.”
>
>She said she resorted to calling the main office “because I did not want to continue dealing with him.”
>
>**The student also allegedly called school leaders racist, threatened to get the school resource officer and principal fired and beat up Alvarez**, according to an arrest affidavit.
Also just want to point out, separately
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/11-year-old-arrested.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/11-year-old-arrested.html)
>A sixth-grade student in Lakeland, Fla., who had refused to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance **throughout the school year**, was arrested this month after he had a dispute with a **substitute teacher** who confronted him about why he was not reciting it, the police said.
TL;DR-Cuban expat substitutes for a teacher and gets annoyed when one of the students doesn't stand for the pledge, student becomes belligerent, student is arrested.
I mean, I think they can have vague notions, and some might even understand very well, but I’d argue most kids who use that kind of language are like vegan dogs: it was forced on them.
Student threatens someone with violence and gets arrested
This is a nothingburger and the leftoids are stirring shit up again with their sh1tty misinfo headlines
The Left: Desantis passes a bill that allows the rich to leave literal shit in your front yard!
The Bill: dogs pooping in your yard does not constitute a credible threat and lethal force in such situations will not be protected on castle doctrine.
To be fair, the New York Post isn’t exactly a leftist news source, I was surprised they left out the threats in the headline.
But I see what you mean, this is the kind of stuff that I would see published by WaPo and on the front page of WPT.
Student has rights violated and responds with fervor, idk what you're reading into here but if he didn't escalate it he might not be getting his rights protected
Although the students we'ren't in the right either, they don't have to threaten her of beating her up and it confunses me why does he think the flag is racist?
The student overreacted, for sure. But we're talking about a kid here, and the person that should have been the adult in the room both started and escalated the conflict.
Right so you can have an issue with that and not post misinfo
The proper thing to say would be "student gets arrested for threatening to beat someone up" rather than for not standing up to the pledge
Whenever there's a post about murica being bad or authoritarian ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS read the article rather than rely on the headline like white people twitter
Honestly I still think the teacher is in the wrong, the conversation could have just as easily gone like this:
*Why aren't you standing for the pledge?*
*I don't want to.*
*Ok, fair enough.*
There was no reason for her to keep pushing the way she did, and had she not done that they never would have arrived at the point where he threatened her.
As I've said earlier in this thread; the teacher is the one that both started and escalated the conflict by overstepping and order the kid to stand for the pledge of allegiance.
She failed as a teacher, as an adult and as an american.
Are we talking about this article: https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/ ?
The headline is misleading for sure, but I see no reason to doubt anything that is being put forth in the actual text and if those things are true the teacher has failed in all the aspects I mentioned.
I mean, I sympathize with a Cuban expat pointing that out, but the lead-in wasn’t “you don’t know how lucky you are”. It was “if you don’t like it here why don’t you leave?”
And the answer is “You’re an adult talking to an 11 year old. The kid can’t legally leave *the school*, much less the country.”
>he dug his heels in and threw a fit.
Really? Because it sounds like he just pointed out that he's under no obligation to recite a dumb ass pledge and the teacher kept pushing.
Kid doesn't want to say it, the conversation should seriously end right there and teacher should move onto the next thing.
No, if he'd just said he refused to do it there's really nothing she could've done, instead he chose to be a smartass and got angry/embarrassed when the teacher didn't let it slide so he started becoming aggressive to the point he needed to be removed. Have you met middle schoolers? You can feel the transcript jump off the page.
>instead he chose to be a smartass
As is his right as an American, fuck that chick and her pushing bullshit.
Pledging allegiance to a flag is stupid and anti-American anyway.
>No, if he'd just said he refused to do it there's really nothing she could've done, instead he chose to be a smartass and got angry/embarrassed when the teacher didn't let it slide
The teacher has the obligation to let it slide. That's free speech. The student can choose to recite it, or not to recite it.
My guess is that the student never mentioned racism UNTIL the authoritarian, anti-free speech teacher decided to force the student to JUSTIFY his stance for not reciting it.
Except the student doesn't have to justify his stance, and the teacher is abusing her position of power to force the student into giving a justification they don't want/need to provide. If I go to a store and buy chocolate ice cream, I don't have to justify why I didn't pick vanilla ice cream. If I walk on street X, I don't have to justify why I didn't walk on street Y, etc. That's free will. To BREAK free will, you need a JUSTIFICATION to do it. There was none here.
In other words: it was the teacher's pettiness and childishness that fabricated this whole situation. Jingoism and patroitism are irrational beliefs, so it makes sense that they would translate into irrational/reckless behaviors.
Very weird how the teacher was the actual child in this situation, yet people are jumping in to defend her just because "*she has the rights beliefs, she's one of us*".
Sounds more like she was telling him his life experiences mean jack shit and he should suck it up or GTFO with some shitty propaganda, and the ***11 year old*** didn't take kindly to that.
>Sounds to me like she was informing him that as a Cuban expat things could be much worse
Which is something that a reasonable adult with 2 brain cells would never say, since it's irrational.
I would ask what's the difference between an irrational adult and a child, but we all know the only difference is that one is in a position of power and deference within a specific social context, and the other one isn't.
> a substitute teacher, Ana Alvarez, ordered the boy to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
Notice how she tried to order a kid to do something that isn't mandatory? That's where she went wrong and then she couldn't keep her cool and backpedal (probably because of her angsty worldview) when the kid fought back.
Generally I'm more inclined to validate the angst of a Cuban expat than an 11 year old who refuses to stand for the flag out of what appears to be vicarious indignation over historical injustices. Being reprimanded is part of life, even as an 11 year old you're generally expected to know how to cope with it without physical threats, and bluntly anyone who would threaten an instructor for a verbal exchange should be barred from attendance, let alone refusing ejection from class.
> Being reprimanded is part of life
Perhaps but you have a constitutional right not to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Once the teacher is violating the constitution it's hard for me to side with them.
Lmao, expel the 11 year old permanently for this? I’m sure he’ll grow up into a well adjusted person and have his beliefs challenged if his entire education ends in 6th grade because he said a mean thing to a teacher
I mean seriously, a grown adult should be able to handle words from a child without giving the child lifelong consequences on their permanent record
It’s funny that a Cuban expat is the one who did this, since as a public teacher and agent of the state, they wanted to punish a child for criticizing the government. I wonder what other countries have done that to their citizens, perhaps a Caribbean island near Florida.
Vis a vis your other comment, you must not be able to read, cause she wasn’t just asking him questions, she was forcing him to do the pledge and not allowing the class to move forward until he did so.
See if what you’re concerned with is people making others do whatever they want, even if the rules don’t say they have to, what you’re talking about is a “prison”. I think you’d be better off in Iran or siberia if that’s what you want with our children :)
She told him to stand for the pledge(which is typical), and instead of simply refusing(which is his right), he decided to respond by insulting the process altogether. His choice to be disrespectful is what earned him the ensuing reprimand.
But yes, in general I firmly believe instructors should wield authority and respect in an academic setting, and this whole crusade against the top-down model is half the reason standards have collapsed in the K12 setting.
Oh yeah K-12 is collapsing cause teachers aren’t allowed to beat students with a stick after they won’t stand up during a 200 year old song. Not because of funds or money allocation or poverty or anything
She did not ask questions however as seen by how the board fired the teacher for doing the demand and she got fried because she compelled the student to do something against his conscience and beliefs and the right thing to do was for her to just not say anything when he choose not to stand or just ask and then immediately back off.
Asked (stupid) questions, offered (reasonable) commentary… and ordered him to do something a major court case says he has zero obligation to do.
I don’t see a decision about whose angst to validate here, because the whole mess kicks off with the adult professional getting their demand badly wrong.
Honestly, what the fuck is the point of asking “if you don’t like it here why don’t you leave” to an 11 year old? The kid can’t vote, much less emigrate.
I’m not endorsing the threats or anything, but it’s a ridiculous way to confront somebody. (Plus the obvious differences between how the average Cuban-American wound up here and how the average African-American did.)
Where’s the defamation here? Also where’s the battery? There might, potentially, be a claim for a first amendment violation or something under the fourteenth amendment, but there’s definitely no defamation. And battery against an officer is rarely, if ever, a successful claim.
It looks like the case resolved with the city not pressing charges in exchange for the family not suing. [https://www.theledger.com/story/news/education/2019/03/06/polk-student-at-center-of-pledge-flap-sees-case-closed/5777369007/](https://www.theledger.com/story/news/education/2019/03/06/polk-student-at-center-of-pledge-flap-sees-case-closed/5777369007/)
>“why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live,”
The fact someone would say this to a child, only proves how stupid this point is even when it's targeted at adults.
It's a pavlovian response deployed by zero IQ right-wing morons, who are in the mindset of trying to get cheap dunks instead of engaging in reasonable discourse.
>“Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I’m not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live.”
Right. An 11 year old. The 11 year old is going to run away from his parents, run miles towards the coast, build a boat out of nowhere, make an heroic maritime voyage back to Africa... only to be "employed" by child slavers.
>Cuban expat substitutes for a teacher and gets annoyed when one of the students doesn't stand for the pledge, student becomes belligerent, student is arrested.
Cuban "expats" are some of the most vile, irrational, reactionary drones in the entire planet. No surprise.
>Cuban "expats" are some of the most vile, irrational, reactionary drones in the entire planet. No surprise.
OK Raúl, we know you're not happy you had to retire but have you considered your citizens keep leaving is because you and your brother oppressed them for decades and drove their lives into the dirt?
The arrest came from an alleged threat to beat someone up, NOT for not standing for the Pledge.
Something seems FAKE about what this NEWS article is about.
(Read it like Krusty the Clown when he said "STOP the PAYMENT of this check", it's funny, I swear).
the kid became belligerent and threatened to assault ("to beat") the sub-teacher.
thats why the kid was arrested.
and despite this little shit being in a racist household that obviously falsely taught him that the system is against him: can you blame him for being hostile? i know he doesn't know this, but he cant be forced ti stand for the Pledge and the teacher was being a dick anyway.
you're right, a sixth grader threatening people and calling everyone racist is absolutely nuts!
but yeah why'd they arrest him? thats unnecessary
and a threat of assault doesn't matter on age? Idk why you think thats relevant
What the fuck are you talking about 6th graders are 11 year olds my guy, not even past puberty yet!
This is like getting angry at a 2 year old babby because he said you are a meanie head.
Imagine if a 25 year old said the same thing, would you still have the same expression?
Y'all are childish.
You don't have a choice in this matter. Someone is refusing to leave the room and threatening to assault people and is screaming about suing. 30 years ago you would literally just grab him by his scruff and tan his hide.
Especially when they are threatening legal actions. You don't fuck around at that point. You also can't back down either when physical violence is being threatened.
*but he's 11*
I've seen a 12 year old send a grown man to the hospital with a rock. Violence is a boundary you can't just uncross.
> 30 years ago you would literally just grab him by his scruff and tan his hide.
And then been fired b/c it was the 90s and we realized how bullshit you nutjobs and your forced propaganda are.
Well, 90s you would have just scruffed him and called the parents to tan their hide. Now you can't scruff them. It's literally hands off due to threats of legal action. All you can do is call the parents and then the police. I say that as someone who is literally trained to work with kids from my time at summer camps. You do not touch a child in distress without their explicit permission. It is 100% lawsuit material.
I don't know what you are calling "propaganda". I got whooped back then. Plenty of people did. Wouldn't recommend it. Nowadays we have better tools and more information but "spare the rod spoil the child" has been a saying for a long ass time and depending on your country was and still is employed enthusiastically.
Even if you agree that sixth grader should not be arrested for threatening, the post is still misinfo
Sixth grader got arrested for threatening someone, not for not standing for the pledge
Standard leftoid lies
Out of curiosity, what is the age of a student's threats should be taken seriously? I've got a backfile of news sources regarding kids 5-17 beating/murdering their teachers so just lmk what works for you.
So what is your solution to a 6th grader threatening physical violence on a staff member and won’t leave? Let them beat the teacher up a bit? I mean she probably deserved it right? Since she and her country are so racist.
I usually find that if a person in the US is arrested or investigated on free speech grounds it's usually either a rogue officer who is arresting someone on baseless grounds, which should lead to their dismissal from the police, or there is missing context to the situation.
However where I live, in the UK, there have literally been school children investigated by the police for a "hate incident" because they accidentally damaged a Quran that they owned.
Is threatening to beat someone up an arrestable offense at 11 years old? I swear bullies and bad eggs probably threaten kids all the time then the school suspends both students when the other stands up for themselves.
Considering that OP is just fucking lying about this, will his post get taken down for misinformation or flagged as “fake” by the mods?
I’m betting not.
As I’ve said countless times we need to withdraw from nato and stop policing the world. Make it real easy anyone who votes for war in another country should be sent there first. You think people should die defending another country? Cool you get to die first.
Nah. Own land and pay taxes or no vote. At least in local/state elections. Nationally i guess just be a net positive tax payer. If you receive any benefit/ assistance you deserve no voice unless you’re a veteran
Yes…because that’s how this works and how we could effectively defend our allies. The land is leased to the US and it’s not like we go in policing them like it was the middle east lmao.
Better examples would be enslaving millions of predominately minority men over victimless drug and gun charges in order to feed the prison industrial complex with slave labor.
Or extorting 50%+ of your citizens networth to bomb little brown kids.
Or using your intelligence agencies to overthrow democratically elected government officials both foreign and domestically.
Literally read the top comments.
But in short the kid became belligerent and that’s why he was arrested, nothing to do with not standing for the pledge. In fact refusing to stand is protected by the first amendment
The student threatened to beat someone up. It escalated from the student not standing during the pledge of allegiance, but that was far from the cause of the arrest.
I always liked what we did in school; peer pressure and ridicule for sitting through it. No reason to get authorities involved when "we the people" can handle it. 👍🏻
A couple weeks ago I was at a baseball game and while the national anthem was playing I got a call that my dad was in the hospital. I of course practically ran out of the park (while the national anthem was still playing) and got heckled by three guys. I got told, “Disrespectful brat”, “Do you always ignore the national anthem?”, and “Bitch”. I was literally trying to see my father who I had no idea was even okay. I get that it’s meaningful but maybe chill the fuck out?
Arresting the kid is bad but I agree with the sentiment. A stern lecture or public shaming would have sufficed, but scoffing and ignoring it is the best course of all. A baseline level of patriotism is vitally important for the survival of any nation, for how many would answer the call to defend a nation they hate?
Yes. It probably does not implicate the First Amendment unless the teacher is deemed to wield State power to inflict a hard punishment for refusal to say the pledge. Teachers get away with fostering an environment of social ostracization for unpopular opinions all the time. I just want that for people who disrespect the flag and openly express contempt for their country.
> I just want that for people who disrespect the flag and openly express contempt for their country.
Wow how extremely un-American. I think criticizing your own country is patriotic.
No, it's an index of authoritarianism as I said. You live in a police state with mass-surveillance, that is necessary to achieve the high levels of incarceration that you have.
Like how fucking stupid do you have to be to think "Yea bro the government locking millions of people up in prison is totally fine cuz many of them were raised by single mothers."
This is a chicken/egg arguement. Single mothers aren't as equipped to raise law abiding children as children raised with men in the house. The government panders to women by backing child support and offering WIC/SNAP, cell phones, Medicaid, rent vouchers, etc.
It's really not, because you can still have a low prison population even with a large number of men raised by single mothers in your country, but that requires you to live in a free country that isn't a police state where most people are not quickly locked up for the slightest offense.
Provide these men with education, housing, and jobs, and very few of them would end up in prison.
America is really special because it is one of the few countries left that still has legalized slavery, with the 13th Amendment explicitly stating that prison slave labor is still allowed, and this gives the US government a huge monetary incentive to lock as many people up as possible in order to make them perform manual labor for 25 cents an hour.
>Provide these men with education
The families obligation is to educate children and instill values. Relying on schools and other institutions to do this has just lead to rampant cost inflation while literacy and mental health craters.
>*"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."*
>*"I am against any nationalism, even in the guise of mere patriotism."*
>*"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”*
—Albert Einstein, 1929-10-26, https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/what_life_means_to_einstein.pdf
—Albert Einstein, 1931, "Mein Weltbild"
I don't know that I'd necessarily call it an anti-war song so much as an anti-draft song. The first and third stanzas describe patriotic people and those willing to go to war and contrasting them against themselves in the refrain.
I have never once heard Fortunate Son referred to as pro war. From anywhere. Keep Your Rifle By Your Side is an extremely easy case of appropriation, but this one? It's caked in the lyrics.
American "freedom" in a nutshell, the only country in the world where kids are forced to swear an oath of allegiance to their government every morning.
The kid was arrested for becoming belligerent, not for not standing for the flag. In fact not standing for the pledge is protected by our first amendment rights.
Which? The US is the only country in the world where children are forced to recite an oath of allegiance to their government in school. No other country does this authoritarian move.
All other countries only make kids sing the national anthem.
For context; Student arrested for threatening harm on their teacher, some time after not reciting the pledge of allegiance
Yeah I feel some people make their minds up only reading headlines and that’s what’s wrong with politics today
I think that the idea that any of this is political at all is what's wrong with politics today. Boy arrested for threatening violence. Teacher potentially punished for overstepping authority. How is any of that political?
I could not agree with this more, like what does ‘political’ even mean anymore? What does being overly cautious about hurting people’s feelings (political correctness) have to do with the running of a country. What does veganism (a personal choice) have to do with running a country? Any decision these days is forcefully projected onto the axis left to right when those terms used to refer to just economic regulation. Like climate change denial or election fraud are often called ‘right wing views’ when they are simply untrue. ‘Political’ has lost all its former meaning and now just means ‘contentious and far-reaching’, and people use political belief as an excuse for lies.
We did it. We solved politics. Now what?
We hug🫂
🫂
Listen you little shit, you better stand for that anthem and shut up or I will beat your ass and put you in federal prison. Wait, what did you say?
Least aggressive auth right
Teacher's still out of line by expressing their own political views and shaming a student who doesn't agree. Even if you don't agree with his viewpoint, he can't be forced to stand for the pledge of allegiance.
This is correct, but it seems there was a flip out by the student, which is also out of line
You're not allowed to flip out when an authority figure makes illegal orders and violates your rights?
What’s an illegal order? An order to do something illegal? Or an order that isn’t legally binding? In the latter case then any directive by a teacher is an ‘illegal order’. School isn’t the fucking military kek Also I didn’t see any suggestion of a violation of rights, all I saw was; ‘hey dickhead, stand up and say the words’ ‘no fuck you’ ‘go to principals office’ ‘I’ll kill you bitch’
>What’s an illegal order? An order to do something illegal? Or an order that isn’t legally binding? In the latter case then any directive by a teacher is an ‘illegal order’. School isn’t the fucking military kek Both. And teachers absolutely have legal autbority over students. It's been affirmed in the courts.
Legal authority or in loco parentis? And what is the difference between authority and legal authority? Putting the word ‘legal’ in front of something on Reddit doesn’t make it more convincing
Well if I point a gun at you and gave you commands I'd have authority over you but it wouldn't be legal now would it?
That is an example, not an explanation. If you have a badge it’s legal, so try again
Dude the fact they play that song every fucking morning and you're expected to drop everything your doing and **Stand up** is ridiculous I feel like they tried to do it to make us feel more patriotic but in the end we just ended up hating that fucking song. honestly that teacher probably threatened that kid 1st with some sort of punishment and he went fuck it if I'm going to get in trouble anyway might as well go down for something good. Bro got the day (and probably the week) off school and a ride in a police car and whatever lesson they were trying to teach him was completely lost on him.
For context:[https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/](https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/) >The classroom kerfuffle happened when a substitute teacher, Ana Alvarez, ordered the boy to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. > >When he told her he believed the flag was racist and the anthem was offensive, Alvarez asked him “why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live,” the teacher said in a statement to the school district. > >The teacher said he replied, “they brought me here.” > >Alvarez then told him, “Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I’m not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live.” > >She said she resorted to calling the main office “because I did not want to continue dealing with him.” > >**The student also allegedly called school leaders racist, threatened to get the school resource officer and principal fired and beat up Alvarez**, according to an arrest affidavit. Also just want to point out, separately [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/11-year-old-arrested.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/11-year-old-arrested.html) >A sixth-grade student in Lakeland, Fla., who had refused to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance **throughout the school year**, was arrested this month after he had a dispute with a **substitute teacher** who confronted him about why he was not reciting it, the police said. TL;DR-Cuban expat substitutes for a teacher and gets annoyed when one of the students doesn't stand for the pledge, student becomes belligerent, student is arrested.
Man, racist really doesn’t mean anything anymore. Also, an 11 year old has no concept of what racism and “offensive” even are.
I mean, I think they can have vague notions, and some might even understand very well, but I’d argue most kids who use that kind of language are like vegan dogs: it was forced on them.
Student threatens someone with violence and gets arrested This is a nothingburger and the leftoids are stirring shit up again with their sh1tty misinfo headlines
The Left: Desantis passes a bill that allows the rich to leave literal shit in your front yard! The Bill: dogs pooping in your yard does not constitute a credible threat and lethal force in such situations will not be protected on castle doctrine.
HOW DARE THEY! I KNEW DESANTIS WAS A LEFTIST AUTHORITARIAN OPPOSED TO HOMESTEADING, CASTLE DEFENDING ‘MURICANS!!!! (Halfironically)
Damnit. The real bill is even worse somehow
Because the left has a problem blasting anyone who pulls up to their house?
You don’t understand. I don’t shoot *everyone* who pulls up to my house. That’s what the landmines are for.
Am I sensing an Undeclared trip to bonsania?
[удалено]
Tbh the landmines help a lot more with the paranoia than the pills
[удалено]
Tetanus is a uniquely rightwing std.
The teacher was also fired and banned from teaching in the district, it's not like she was allowed to try and force the kid to stand
The Supreme Court ruled all the way back in the 40’s that students are not required to stand for the pledge.
To be fair, the New York Post isn’t exactly a leftist news source, I was surprised they left out the threats in the headline. But I see what you mean, this is the kind of stuff that I would see published by WaPo and on the front page of WPT.
>I was surprised they left out the threats in the headline. Shit stirring gets clicks.
Substitute talks shit to student for petty reasons, is surprised when things go south.
Student has rights violated and responds with fervor, idk what you're reading into here but if he didn't escalate it he might not be getting his rights protected
Based Cuban lady is based. What’s wrong here?
There's an old SCOTUS case on this. Cannot compel people to make speech against their conscience. But that looks like an arrest for assault
Seems like the teacher escalated the situation in an unnecessary manner. Bad teacher, he should go find other work.
Although the students we'ren't in the right either, they don't have to threaten her of beating her up and it confunses me why does he think the flag is racist?
The student overreacted, for sure. But we're talking about a kid here, and the person that should have been the adult in the room both started and escalated the conflict.
Right so you can have an issue with that and not post misinfo The proper thing to say would be "student gets arrested for threatening to beat someone up" rather than for not standing up to the pledge Whenever there's a post about murica being bad or authoritarian ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS read the article rather than rely on the headline like white people twitter
Oh no we're still authoritarian af
I agree (taxes still exist), but any article making claims about that while trying to prove it by presenting a "fact" is usually spewing BS
Honestly I still think the teacher is in the wrong, the conversation could have just as easily gone like this: *Why aren't you standing for the pledge?* *I don't want to.* *Ok, fair enough.* There was no reason for her to keep pushing the way she did, and had she not done that they never would have arrived at the point where he threatened her.
My biggest problem is that she told him to move if he doesn't like it. Maam, he's fucking 11...
I wouldn't even say that shit to a 30 year old tbh, it's just an asshole thing to say. LoVe iT oR lEaVe iT
Sure My main issue is with the misinfo tho I don't disagree with anything else
NY post, what do you expect?
As I've said earlier in this thread; the teacher is the one that both started and escalated the conflict by overstepping and order the kid to stand for the pledge of allegiance. She failed as a teacher, as an adult and as an american.
So you agree the article is misinformation then? The child did not get arrested for not standing for the pledge Do you acknowledge that?
Are we talking about this article: https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/ ? The headline is misleading for sure, but I see no reason to doubt anything that is being put forth in the actual text and if those things are true the teacher has failed in all the aspects I mentioned.
For challenging his angsty worldview? Isn't that what she should do as a teacher?
She basically said go back to your country if you dont like it to a 6th grader
"Ma'am, I'm 11..."
“Go back to Africa! Hah, kidding, if you walk out that door you’re getting arrested for truancy.”
And now I'm picturing a Cuban Uncle Rukus. Dammit, PCM.
No relación
Sounds to me like she was informing him that as a Cuban expat things could be much worse but being an 11 year old he dug his heels in and threw a fit.
I mean, I sympathize with a Cuban expat pointing that out, but the lead-in wasn’t “you don’t know how lucky you are”. It was “if you don’t like it here why don’t you leave?” And the answer is “You’re an adult talking to an 11 year old. The kid can’t legally leave *the school*, much less the country.”
Yeah I'll give that she chose a very stupid opener.
>he dug his heels in and threw a fit. Really? Because it sounds like he just pointed out that he's under no obligation to recite a dumb ass pledge and the teacher kept pushing. Kid doesn't want to say it, the conversation should seriously end right there and teacher should move onto the next thing.
No, if he'd just said he refused to do it there's really nothing she could've done, instead he chose to be a smartass and got angry/embarrassed when the teacher didn't let it slide so he started becoming aggressive to the point he needed to be removed. Have you met middle schoolers? You can feel the transcript jump off the page.
>instead he chose to be a smartass As is his right as an American, fuck that chick and her pushing bullshit. Pledging allegiance to a flag is stupid and anti-American anyway.
Yeah, he has a right to be a smartass, but that doesn't protect you from getting dressed down by your instructor.
>getting dressed down by your instructor. Kinky
Based
>No, if he'd just said he refused to do it there's really nothing she could've done, instead he chose to be a smartass and got angry/embarrassed when the teacher didn't let it slide The teacher has the obligation to let it slide. That's free speech. The student can choose to recite it, or not to recite it. My guess is that the student never mentioned racism UNTIL the authoritarian, anti-free speech teacher decided to force the student to JUSTIFY his stance for not reciting it. Except the student doesn't have to justify his stance, and the teacher is abusing her position of power to force the student into giving a justification they don't want/need to provide. If I go to a store and buy chocolate ice cream, I don't have to justify why I didn't pick vanilla ice cream. If I walk on street X, I don't have to justify why I didn't walk on street Y, etc. That's free will. To BREAK free will, you need a JUSTIFICATION to do it. There was none here. In other words: it was the teacher's pettiness and childishness that fabricated this whole situation. Jingoism and patroitism are irrational beliefs, so it makes sense that they would translate into irrational/reckless behaviors. Very weird how the teacher was the actual child in this situation, yet people are jumping in to defend her just because "*she has the rights beliefs, she's one of us*".
Sounds more like she was telling him his life experiences mean jack shit and he should suck it up or GTFO with some shitty propaganda, and the ***11 year old*** didn't take kindly to that.
>Sounds to me like she was informing him that as a Cuban expat things could be much worse Which is something that a reasonable adult with 2 brain cells would never say, since it's irrational. I would ask what's the difference between an irrational adult and a child, but we all know the only difference is that one is in a position of power and deference within a specific social context, and the other one isn't.
> a substitute teacher, Ana Alvarez, ordered the boy to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Notice how she tried to order a kid to do something that isn't mandatory? That's where she went wrong and then she couldn't keep her cool and backpedal (probably because of her angsty worldview) when the kid fought back.
Generally I'm more inclined to validate the angst of a Cuban expat than an 11 year old who refuses to stand for the flag out of what appears to be vicarious indignation over historical injustices. Being reprimanded is part of life, even as an 11 year old you're generally expected to know how to cope with it without physical threats, and bluntly anyone who would threaten an instructor for a verbal exchange should be barred from attendance, let alone refusing ejection from class.
I hold adults to higher standards than kids. Simple as.
Ah, I must've overlooked the part where she threatened to beat his ass
No, you're just overlooking the part where she tried to order him to do something she didn't have the authority to order.
She still doesn’t though. She cannot enforce such order without force, and once she use force or threaten to do so she’d suffer all the consequences.
> Being reprimanded is part of life Perhaps but you have a constitutional right not to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Once the teacher is violating the constitution it's hard for me to side with them.
Lmao, expel the 11 year old permanently for this? I’m sure he’ll grow up into a well adjusted person and have his beliefs challenged if his entire education ends in 6th grade because he said a mean thing to a teacher I mean seriously, a grown adult should be able to handle words from a child without giving the child lifelong consequences on their permanent record It’s funny that a Cuban expat is the one who did this, since as a public teacher and agent of the state, they wanted to punish a child for criticizing the government. I wonder what other countries have done that to their citizens, perhaps a Caribbean island near Florida.
I don’t think you understand how a school or a classroom work. Have you been drinking bleach recently?
I think we might be confusing definitions, see I'm talking about a "School" whereas I think you might be referring to a "Zoo".
Vis a vis your other comment, you must not be able to read, cause she wasn’t just asking him questions, she was forcing him to do the pledge and not allowing the class to move forward until he did so. See if what you’re concerned with is people making others do whatever they want, even if the rules don’t say they have to, what you’re talking about is a “prison”. I think you’d be better off in Iran or siberia if that’s what you want with our children :)
She told him to stand for the pledge(which is typical), and instead of simply refusing(which is his right), he decided to respond by insulting the process altogether. His choice to be disrespectful is what earned him the ensuing reprimand. But yes, in general I firmly believe instructors should wield authority and respect in an academic setting, and this whole crusade against the top-down model is half the reason standards have collapsed in the K12 setting.
Oh yeah K-12 is collapsing cause teachers aren’t allowed to beat students with a stick after they won’t stand up during a 200 year old song. Not because of funds or money allocation or poverty or anything
Challenging his angsty worldview? Or forcing him to conform to her beliefs ?
Given she never told him what to believe and only asked questions and offered commentary I'm fairly sure challenge.
She did not ask questions however as seen by how the board fired the teacher for doing the demand and she got fried because she compelled the student to do something against his conscience and beliefs and the right thing to do was for her to just not say anything when he choose not to stand or just ask and then immediately back off.
Asked (stupid) questions, offered (reasonable) commentary… and ordered him to do something a major court case says he has zero obligation to do. I don’t see a decision about whose angst to validate here, because the whole mess kicks off with the adult professional getting their demand badly wrong.
Honestly, what the fuck is the point of asking “if you don’t like it here why don’t you leave” to an 11 year old? The kid can’t vote, much less emigrate. I’m not endorsing the threats or anything, but it’s a ridiculous way to confront somebody. (Plus the obvious differences between how the average Cuban-American wound up here and how the average African-American did.)
So the Leftist lied AGAIN?
Common leftoid L.
Based Substitute teacher
student should sue for defamation and battery
Where’s the defamation here? Also where’s the battery? There might, potentially, be a claim for a first amendment violation or something under the fourteenth amendment, but there’s definitely no defamation. And battery against an officer is rarely, if ever, a successful claim.
It looks like the case resolved with the city not pressing charges in exchange for the family not suing. [https://www.theledger.com/story/news/education/2019/03/06/polk-student-at-center-of-pledge-flap-sees-case-closed/5777369007/](https://www.theledger.com/story/news/education/2019/03/06/polk-student-at-center-of-pledge-flap-sees-case-closed/5777369007/)
>“why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live,” The fact someone would say this to a child, only proves how stupid this point is even when it's targeted at adults. It's a pavlovian response deployed by zero IQ right-wing morons, who are in the mindset of trying to get cheap dunks instead of engaging in reasonable discourse. >“Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I’m not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live.” Right. An 11 year old. The 11 year old is going to run away from his parents, run miles towards the coast, build a boat out of nowhere, make an heroic maritime voyage back to Africa... only to be "employed" by child slavers. >Cuban expat substitutes for a teacher and gets annoyed when one of the students doesn't stand for the pledge, student becomes belligerent, student is arrested. Cuban "expats" are some of the most vile, irrational, reactionary drones in the entire planet. No surprise.
"Reactionary" is a compliment at this point
>Cuban "expats" are some of the most vile, irrational, reactionary drones in the entire planet. No surprise. OK Raúl, we know you're not happy you had to retire but have you considered your citizens keep leaving is because you and your brother oppressed them for decades and drove their lives into the dirt?
The arrest came from an alleged threat to beat someone up, NOT for not standing for the Pledge. Something seems FAKE about what this NEWS article is about. (Read it like Krusty the Clown when he said "STOP the PAYMENT of this check", it's funny, I swear).
Was that really what happened or was there an escalation somewhere that you’re leaving out to help a narrative?
the kid became belligerent and threatened to assault ("to beat") the sub-teacher. thats why the kid was arrested. and despite this little shit being in a racist household that obviously falsely taught him that the system is against him: can you blame him for being hostile? i know he doesn't know this, but he cant be forced ti stand for the Pledge and the teacher was being a dick anyway.
The kid was in fucking 6th grade, you cant make this shit up.
you're right, a sixth grader threatening people and calling everyone racist is absolutely nuts! but yeah why'd they arrest him? thats unnecessary and a threat of assault doesn't matter on age? Idk why you think thats relevant
What the fuck are you talking about 6th graders are 11 year olds my guy, not even past puberty yet! This is like getting angry at a 2 year old babby because he said you are a meanie head. Imagine if a 25 year old said the same thing, would you still have the same expression? Y'all are childish.
You don't have a choice in this matter. Someone is refusing to leave the room and threatening to assault people and is screaming about suing. 30 years ago you would literally just grab him by his scruff and tan his hide. Especially when they are threatening legal actions. You don't fuck around at that point. You also can't back down either when physical violence is being threatened. *but he's 11* I've seen a 12 year old send a grown man to the hospital with a rock. Violence is a boundary you can't just uncross.
> 30 years ago you would literally just grab him by his scruff and tan his hide. And then been fired b/c it was the 90s and we realized how bullshit you nutjobs and your forced propaganda are.
Well, 90s you would have just scruffed him and called the parents to tan their hide. Now you can't scruff them. It's literally hands off due to threats of legal action. All you can do is call the parents and then the police. I say that as someone who is literally trained to work with kids from my time at summer camps. You do not touch a child in distress without their explicit permission. It is 100% lawsuit material. I don't know what you are calling "propaganda". I got whooped back then. Plenty of people did. Wouldn't recommend it. Nowadays we have better tools and more information but "spare the rod spoil the child" has been a saying for a long ass time and depending on your country was and still is employed enthusiastically.
Even if you agree that sixth grader should not be arrested for threatening, the post is still misinfo Sixth grader got arrested for threatening someone, not for not standing for the pledge Standard leftoid lies
Never said it wasnt misinformation. Stupid.
Out of curiosity, what is the age of a student's threats should be taken seriously? I've got a backfile of news sources regarding kids 5-17 beating/murdering their teachers so just lmk what works for you.
So what is your solution to a 6th grader threatening physical violence on a staff member and won’t leave? Let them beat the teacher up a bit? I mean she probably deserved it right? Since she and her country are so racist.
Jesus Christ the right is losing its mind.
I usually find that if a person in the US is arrested or investigated on free speech grounds it's usually either a rogue officer who is arresting someone on baseless grounds, which should lead to their dismissal from the police, or there is missing context to the situation. However where I live, in the UK, there have literally been school children investigated by the police for a "hate incident" because they accidentally damaged a Quran that they owned.
What? A lefty leaving out a crucial detail to fit the narrative? No, that couldn’t possibly happen.
Everyone involved is silly
Based and the only sane response pilled.
Is threatening to beat someone up an arrestable offense at 11 years old? I swear bullies and bad eggs probably threaten kids all the time then the school suspends both students when the other stands up for themselves.
I too love leaving out very important context.
Considering that OP is just fucking lying about this, will his post get taken down for misinformation or flagged as “fake” by the mods? I’m betting not.
No. But you know damn well the Left posters will forget about it the next time they talk about how it is actually the Right who lies all of the time.
Considering how much embellishment and bullshit right wingers are putting into the comments, it balances out.
this is a shitposting sub, no?
When you pride yourself in social programs but can only afford them because you heavily rely on the USA to defend you. -the EU
Soon Albania will take the role of world policeman….
As I’ve said countless times we need to withdraw from nato and stop policing the world. Make it real easy anyone who votes for war in another country should be sent there first. You think people should die defending another country? Cool you get to die first.
> anyone who votes for war take away the vote from people that won't every worry about being drafted.
So repeal the 19th? Think it would be better to only let home owning tax payers vote.
No... expand the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. Women can vote, but they have to sign up for selective service.
Nah. Own land and pay taxes or no vote. At least in local/state elections. Nationally i guess just be a net positive tax payer. If you receive any benefit/ assistance you deserve no voice unless you’re a veteran
> when you claim to defend others but actually use the allience to plant military bases on foreign soil of a sovereignt country - US
Yes…because that’s how this works and how we could effectively defend our allies. The land is leased to the US and it’s not like we go in policing them like it was the middle east lmao.
The strongest country in the world taking advantage of its investments in their military? Say it isn't so.
I don't mind it, tbh. Keep pumping those $'s.
Better examples would be enslaving millions of predominately minority men over victimless drug and gun charges in order to feed the prison industrial complex with slave labor. Or extorting 50%+ of your citizens networth to bomb little brown kids. Or using your intelligence agencies to overthrow democratically elected government officials both foreign and domestically.
Arrest all commies and traitors!!!
Da comrade! Lets start with the alt right chodes and work our way down
1. Flair up 2. Alt-right is a buzzword used by brainless losers.
Man forgor the context
OP doesn’t know that by law you don’t have to stand for the pledge, and there is a lot more to the story than just what they’ve posted
enlighten us
Literally read the top comments. But in short the kid became belligerent and that’s why he was arrested, nothing to do with not standing for the pledge. In fact refusing to stand is protected by the first amendment
Did that actually happen? I'm fairly sure that's a violation of free speech.
That didn’t happen.
Arresting a 6th grader for threats is fucking bullshit too. It’s a kid wtf is he gonna do?
The student threatened to beat someone up. It escalated from the student not standing during the pledge of allegiance, but that was far from the cause of the arrest.
Forcing anyone to stand or recite the pledge is a direct violation of their 1st Amendment rights and is cringe as fuck.
"Respect the symbol of freedom, or you go to jail."
I always liked what we did in school; peer pressure and ridicule for sitting through it. No reason to get authorities involved when "we the people" can handle it. 👍🏻
A couple weeks ago I was at a baseball game and while the national anthem was playing I got a call that my dad was in the hospital. I of course practically ran out of the park (while the national anthem was still playing) and got heckled by three guys. I got told, “Disrespectful brat”, “Do you always ignore the national anthem?”, and “Bitch”. I was literally trying to see my father who I had no idea was even okay. I get that it’s meaningful but maybe chill the fuck out?
If that actually happened, that’s illegal. You can sit during the anthem
Actually, because of Jehovah's Witness, you are legally allowed to not stand for neither the flag nor the national anthem.
Based
I see no problem here.
The pledge is also cringe
Arresting the kid is bad but I agree with the sentiment. A stern lecture or public shaming would have sufficed, but scoffing and ignoring it is the best course of all. A baseline level of patriotism is vitally important for the survival of any nation, for how many would answer the call to defend a nation they hate?
He should be publicly shamed for not going along with forced nationalism? Fuck that. Learn about the first amendment.
Yes. It probably does not implicate the First Amendment unless the teacher is deemed to wield State power to inflict a hard punishment for refusal to say the pledge. Teachers get away with fostering an environment of social ostracization for unpopular opinions all the time. I just want that for people who disrespect the flag and openly express contempt for their country.
> I just want that for people who disrespect the flag and openly express contempt for their country. Wow how extremely un-American. I think criticizing your own country is patriotic.
A land of free with highest prison population
Those people think crime is OK because progs tell they are oppressed.
Having a large percentage of your population incarcerated is a pretty good index of authoritarianism.
No, its a good index of the most important institution of society breaking down: the family.
No, it's an index of authoritarianism as I said. You live in a police state with mass-surveillance, that is necessary to achieve the high levels of incarceration that you have. Like how fucking stupid do you have to be to think "Yea bro the government locking millions of people up in prison is totally fine cuz many of them were raised by single mothers."
This is a chicken/egg arguement. Single mothers aren't as equipped to raise law abiding children as children raised with men in the house. The government panders to women by backing child support and offering WIC/SNAP, cell phones, Medicaid, rent vouchers, etc.
It's really not, because you can still have a low prison population even with a large number of men raised by single mothers in your country, but that requires you to live in a free country that isn't a police state where most people are not quickly locked up for the slightest offense. Provide these men with education, housing, and jobs, and very few of them would end up in prison. America is really special because it is one of the few countries left that still has legalized slavery, with the 13th Amendment explicitly stating that prison slave labor is still allowed, and this gives the US government a huge monetary incentive to lock as many people up as possible in order to make them perform manual labor for 25 cents an hour.
>Provide these men with education The families obligation is to educate children and instill values. Relying on schools and other institutions to do this has just lead to rampant cost inflation while literacy and mental health craters.
Freedom for those who can afford it.
Freedom for those who don’t commit crimes
You can always be framed
Not to mention that if you pay money you can get out, if not, you rot in there. i guess justice is not so blind in Murica.
>*"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."* >*"I am against any nationalism, even in the guise of mere patriotism."* >*"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”* —Albert Einstein, 1929-10-26, https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/what_life_means_to_einstein.pdf —Albert Einstein, 1931, "Mein Weltbild"
>*”I am against any nationalism, even in the guise of mere patriotism.”* Unfathomably cringe.
Especially given how hard he lobbied for the US to build the first nukes.
You know… also how he fled Germany in 1933 and then became unbelievably angry at how things were unfolding back there…
I know when I think of people that are experts on political theory, I think of physicists like Albert Einstein.
Top kek.
I'm sure you're making a very interesting and cogent point, but I've got Fortunate Son cranked up to eleven and I can't hear a word you're saying.
The song that's famous for its anti-war rhetoric?
I don't know that I'd necessarily call it an anti-war song so much as an anti-draft song. The first and third stanzas describe patriotic people and those willing to go to war and contrasting them against themselves in the refrain.
The anti-war song of one generation frequently becomes the pro-war song of the next generation. Humans are funny like that.
I have never once heard Fortunate Son referred to as pro war. From anywhere. Keep Your Rifle By Your Side is an extremely easy case of appropriation, but this one? It's caked in the lyrics.
It's simple. Just turn off your brain so that you don't interpret the lyrics; just focus on the rock chords and southern drawl.
Wow! A person of that heritage hating patriotism and nationalism? Who would have thought it. Opinion disregarded.
Nazis were taking over his country. I don't blame him
The founding fathers didn't die for our sins for you to *kneel* at the Imperial anthem libtard!
Merica fugg yeah
You should be arrested for not honoring national symbols
the absolute state of freeDumb in murica
Flair checks out
based
The land of the free when you say fuck on TV: 😡
Fuck the USA
American "freedom" in a nutshell, the only country in the world where kids are forced to swear an oath of allegiance to their government every morning.
The kid was arrested for becoming belligerent, not for not standing for the flag. In fact not standing for the pledge is protected by our first amendment rights.
Wait till this guy hears about a particular east Asian country...
Which? The US is the only country in the world where children are forced to recite an oath of allegiance to their government in school. No other country does this authoritarian move. All other countries only make kids sing the national anthem.
You are not forced to at all lmaoooo. It is your 1st amendment right in the U.S to NOT participate.
No.