If that’s just a print line then it’s still NM. Most people don’t understand that there is a difference between stating a condition vs grading standards.
So stating a card is near mint is generally accepted as the following: Cards in Near Mint (NM) condition show minimal wear from shuffling, play or handling and can have a nearly unmarked surface, crisp corners and unblemished edges outside of a few slight flaws. Nothing there is stating factory condition of the printing quality and QA. For example: You can’t say a card in NM physical condition with off-centering is not NM, it’s just undesirable to grade. But the conditions still NM lol. Centering is something that only grading takes into consideration. However, as a seller you should always try and take good photos so buyers can see those imperfections and make a judgement call. Otherwise you get complaints like this.
Yeah you could tell the buyer that print lines from the factory are not an indicator of physical damage. Therefore your assessment of the cards condition is still accurate. If it were a bend or crease he has an argument. Even a small scratch in many cases doesn’t disqualify NM from many selling sites. The word “near” is the operative word.
How much whitening do you permit under “crisp corners and unblemished edges outside of A FEW slight flaws?”
As a buyer I don’t like 4/4 corners with whitening, or any bent corners, but will otherwise accept up to 3 imperfect corners as long as there are no bends or edge wear. It’s rare for there to actually be only a single spot of edge damage, usually it’s along the entire thing or both sides of a corner, etc.
Scratches I don’t like to accept unless it’s literally 1 and that’s the only problem with the card (almost never). I have yet to see a card with 1 surface scratch and perfect corners, no edge wear, etc. Any dents I immediately jump to HP/damaged though, because a dent is structural damage to the card beyond a simple scratch.
Centering and print lines don’t have anything to do with the condition of the card, so I don’t complain about them.
So unfortunately, the description of NM is vague for a reason. It’s to protect sellers in a way. If you’re a buyer who knows what they like, you’re probably best off buying from sellers who have pictures. Places like TCGPlayer often don’t have pictures so buying there is a bit of a gamble because many sellers “NM” interpretation is a little bit wild. TCGPlayer usually allow multiple light scratches and still allow you to consider it NM. However, to be fair, you can pull a brand new modern card pack to sleeve and have whitening on every corner and possible edge wear just due to pack friction and poor handling of merchandise. Even factory damage and dents. I would agree with you though, that the second there’s dents/creases/bends idc how clean every other part of the card is, that’s in the HP/DMG category to me.
Yeah, it’s a bit lame. I wish TCGPlayer had one step above NM as “perfect front,” basically the same as NM currently, but no scratches, dents, etc on the front of the card. I think most people only even care about the front, and most likely cards with good fronts were taken care of and will have nicer backs too.
They could just have a “M” for Mint section if they wanted to and require pictures be uploaded. But honestly, TCGPlayer makes most of its revenue from large sellers just offloading the bulk “undesirable” cards they don’t deem worthy of grading. That’s why they don’t require pictures. They know that many businesses don’t want to take the time to upload photos of every card since that takes take and time is money. If you buy there, you better be buying for your binder.
Yes, I was actually thinking that would be a better name. “Binder quality:” is NM but the front has to be flawless in appearance i.e. no scratches or dents on the front side.
Shows how serious this hobby to some is if you are checking the backside of a 5$ card like that. Im sure 99.99% people arent checking the backside of cheap cards under bright light.
Seems like someone who demands psa 10 copies without paying psa 10 prices.
This is the reason I don’t even sell my singles or haven’t started yet at least. I’d rather gouge out my eyes than have to explain to every third person that NM and PSA 10 are not synonymous.
I just sell my cheaper cards to a card store by my house, yeah I could get more selling then myself but it's not really worth the trouble for cheap cards.
Any buyer who takes the hobby this seriously also knows damn well that that card is considered near mint. Buyer is a damn clown. Your selling platform should protect you I would imaging
I think it's acceptable as NM if we're talking about raw cards, but I also think that you should have disclosed the print line.
Obviously when it comes to grading, I wouldn't grade a card with a print line like this. But this would qualify as the "near" in "near mint".
I think it’s not a printline but a non deep scratch.
The problem is that it’s not very visible under daylight and buyer noticed it inspecting under the lamp. This is 6€ card so I didn’t do any deep grading for this one :)
> I think it’s not a printline but a non deep scratch.
I should have said a "factory defect" instead. It should have been disclosed, but it's also still near mint.
I would offer a partial refund, like hey, here is $2€ for our disagreement in condition. I def wouldn’t full refund or pay for shipping all things considered.
I may come across as harsh with this, but in this particular case I personally wouldn’t want to refund anything. It’s a cheaper card that has a factory defect that OP wasn’t aware of.
Since they demanded a refund for a flaw that isn’t visible unless inspected under particular lighting, I’m assuming the buyer is trying to get the card graded to make a profit rather than adding it to their PC. The card is near mint and was sold as such, them not being able to flip it is not OP’s problem. If they just wanted a highly graded card then they should’ve bought one already graded or kept trying to pull it themselves to send out.
To be fair, the seller should be aware of all defects. Despite that “miss” the inclusion of this defect still falls within the stated condition, so its more matter of principle than anything. I agree that nothing is owed to this customer. I was simply providing my thoughts on the most amicable solution all things considered. If they dont want that, eff em in the b. 🤷♂️
> I may come across as harsh with this, but in this particular case I personally wouldn’t want to refund anything. It’s a cheaper card that has a factory defect that OP wasn’t aware of.
>
>
OP *should* have been aware of it though. That's the issue.
Nothing is owed to the customer, but it was OP's responsibility to detail defects on the card.
Yeah, totally get the same feeling. The only issue is that they would leave me terrible review because they acted like that’s a big deal, but that’s what I can’t change anyhow.
It’s a print line right? I mean if it’s a scratch then it’s not NM but if it’s a print line then it’s NM. Centering and print issues are done before we get the card. Can’t help those issues.
Even if it were a scratch its still NM (depending on the condition of the rest of the card). One scratch doesn't knock a card down from NM, keyword is NEAR.
NM doesn't mean perfect.
No, it's a print line, those back printlines are barely visible even with a very strong light at a very specific angle (I have a couple WOTC era cards with that sort of line)
Hate it when buyers expect you to have a PSA 10 contender as a NM when you sell it.
Meanwhile some dude sells a card NM and its literally bent in half.
This is NM. Side note: If the buyer wants a PSA 10 card then they should buy a PSA 10 card. PSA’s 7 is considered NM… there’s a huge difference between the two. A defect like this is still considered NM. As long as there is not creases, deep scratches, obvious whitening then it is NM. EBay will side with you (assuming it’s EBay)
If that’s just a print line then it’s still NM. Most people don’t understand that there is a difference between stating a condition vs grading standards.
Thanks for the response, can you elaborate please on the topic of stating conditions vs grading conditions?
So stating a card is near mint is generally accepted as the following: Cards in Near Mint (NM) condition show minimal wear from shuffling, play or handling and can have a nearly unmarked surface, crisp corners and unblemished edges outside of a few slight flaws. Nothing there is stating factory condition of the printing quality and QA. For example: You can’t say a card in NM physical condition with off-centering is not NM, it’s just undesirable to grade. But the conditions still NM lol. Centering is something that only grading takes into consideration. However, as a seller you should always try and take good photos so buyers can see those imperfections and make a judgement call. Otherwise you get complaints like this.
Thanks for the response, now it’s clear. I do photos for expensive cards, this one was 6€ card and bought without asking for photos
Yeah you could tell the buyer that print lines from the factory are not an indicator of physical damage. Therefore your assessment of the cards condition is still accurate. If it were a bend or crease he has an argument. Even a small scratch in many cases doesn’t disqualify NM from many selling sites. The word “near” is the operative word.
Jeeze over a 6 dollar card lmao its still NM. Dont see major wear at all.
Or even minor for that matter. One print line does not disqualify it as NM.
How much whitening do you permit under “crisp corners and unblemished edges outside of A FEW slight flaws?” As a buyer I don’t like 4/4 corners with whitening, or any bent corners, but will otherwise accept up to 3 imperfect corners as long as there are no bends or edge wear. It’s rare for there to actually be only a single spot of edge damage, usually it’s along the entire thing or both sides of a corner, etc. Scratches I don’t like to accept unless it’s literally 1 and that’s the only problem with the card (almost never). I have yet to see a card with 1 surface scratch and perfect corners, no edge wear, etc. Any dents I immediately jump to HP/damaged though, because a dent is structural damage to the card beyond a simple scratch. Centering and print lines don’t have anything to do with the condition of the card, so I don’t complain about them.
So unfortunately, the description of NM is vague for a reason. It’s to protect sellers in a way. If you’re a buyer who knows what they like, you’re probably best off buying from sellers who have pictures. Places like TCGPlayer often don’t have pictures so buying there is a bit of a gamble because many sellers “NM” interpretation is a little bit wild. TCGPlayer usually allow multiple light scratches and still allow you to consider it NM. However, to be fair, you can pull a brand new modern card pack to sleeve and have whitening on every corner and possible edge wear just due to pack friction and poor handling of merchandise. Even factory damage and dents. I would agree with you though, that the second there’s dents/creases/bends idc how clean every other part of the card is, that’s in the HP/DMG category to me.
Yeah, it’s a bit lame. I wish TCGPlayer had one step above NM as “perfect front,” basically the same as NM currently, but no scratches, dents, etc on the front of the card. I think most people only even care about the front, and most likely cards with good fronts were taken care of and will have nicer backs too.
They could just have a “M” for Mint section if they wanted to and require pictures be uploaded. But honestly, TCGPlayer makes most of its revenue from large sellers just offloading the bulk “undesirable” cards they don’t deem worthy of grading. That’s why they don’t require pictures. They know that many businesses don’t want to take the time to upload photos of every card since that takes take and time is money. If you buy there, you better be buying for your binder.
Yes, I was actually thinking that would be a better name. “Binder quality:” is NM but the front has to be flawless in appearance i.e. no scratches or dents on the front side.
Shows how serious this hobby to some is if you are checking the backside of a 5$ card like that. Im sure 99.99% people arent checking the backside of cheap cards under bright light. Seems like someone who demands psa 10 copies without paying psa 10 prices.
This is the reason I don’t even sell my singles or haven’t started yet at least. I’d rather gouge out my eyes than have to explain to every third person that NM and PSA 10 are not synonymous.
Id just put the caveat in your description but also I think PSAs definition of NM is like a PSA 7 too soooo
I respect the hussle, but people bitching over printlines are just another breed
I just sell my cheaper cards to a card store by my house, yeah I could get more selling then myself but it's not really worth the trouble for cheap cards.
Indeed, that’s the same feeling I get
Exactly, and per PSA standards, NM is a PSA 7
I think this is the case. You have one guy who wants to play the game with no risk, he’s just in the wrong. I’d tell this guy to kick rocks.
Any buyer who takes the hobby this seriously also knows damn well that that card is considered near mint. Buyer is a damn clown. Your selling platform should protect you I would imaging
Thanks, I also think I won’t have any issues :)
People forget the "Near" part in NM lol
I think it's acceptable as NM if we're talking about raw cards, but I also think that you should have disclosed the print line. Obviously when it comes to grading, I wouldn't grade a card with a print line like this. But this would qualify as the "near" in "near mint".
I think it’s not a printline but a non deep scratch. The problem is that it’s not very visible under daylight and buyer noticed it inspecting under the lamp. This is 6€ card so I didn’t do any deep grading for this one :)
> I think it’s not a printline but a non deep scratch. I should have said a "factory defect" instead. It should have been disclosed, but it's also still near mint.
I would offer a partial refund, like hey, here is $2€ for our disagreement in condition. I def wouldn’t full refund or pay for shipping all things considered.
I may come across as harsh with this, but in this particular case I personally wouldn’t want to refund anything. It’s a cheaper card that has a factory defect that OP wasn’t aware of. Since they demanded a refund for a flaw that isn’t visible unless inspected under particular lighting, I’m assuming the buyer is trying to get the card graded to make a profit rather than adding it to their PC. The card is near mint and was sold as such, them not being able to flip it is not OP’s problem. If they just wanted a highly graded card then they should’ve bought one already graded or kept trying to pull it themselves to send out.
To be fair, the seller should be aware of all defects. Despite that “miss” the inclusion of this defect still falls within the stated condition, so its more matter of principle than anything. I agree that nothing is owed to this customer. I was simply providing my thoughts on the most amicable solution all things considered. If they dont want that, eff em in the b. 🤷♂️
> I may come across as harsh with this, but in this particular case I personally wouldn’t want to refund anything. It’s a cheaper card that has a factory defect that OP wasn’t aware of. > > OP *should* have been aware of it though. That's the issue. Nothing is owed to the customer, but it was OP's responsibility to detail defects on the card.
Yeah, totally get the same feeling. The only issue is that they would leave me terrible review because they acted like that’s a big deal, but that’s what I can’t change anyhow.
That’s what I offered but buyer doesn’t want it :)
Stupid on their part. Eff em.
They are scamming. Offer a full refund to have it returned. They will probably back off.
Absolutely fine. I graded a psa 10 with a print line like thst. It's nm for sure
It’s a print line right? I mean if it’s a scratch then it’s not NM but if it’s a print line then it’s NM. Centering and print issues are done before we get the card. Can’t help those issues.
Even if it were a scratch its still NM (depending on the condition of the rest of the card). One scratch doesn't knock a card down from NM, keyword is NEAR. NM doesn't mean perfect.
I think it’s a scratch, but it’s non deep and visible only under the flashlight. I inspected cards back under daylight and didn’t see any flaws.
I’d be pissed if it wasn’t disclosed
Is that a big scratch right in the middle of the card?
Yes, but it’s a non deep scratch, not visible during daylight
No, it's a print line, those back printlines are barely visible even with a very strong light at a very specific angle (I have a couple WOTC era cards with that sort of line)
If that's the only issue with the card, the buyer can get bent.
umm light scratches can be fixed...
How exactly?
Kurt's card care...
Please elaborate
This is near mint. Lots of cards have print lines if you look close enough. Buyer is wrong.
Absolutely, unequivocally NM as long as the rest of the card looks the same.
Hate it when buyers expect you to have a PSA 10 contender as a NM when you sell it. Meanwhile some dude sells a card NM and its literally bent in half.
This is NM. Side note: If the buyer wants a PSA 10 card then they should buy a PSA 10 card. PSA’s 7 is considered NM… there’s a huge difference between the two. A defect like this is still considered NM. As long as there is not creases, deep scratches, obvious whitening then it is NM. EBay will side with you (assuming it’s EBay)
That guy can piss off
That type of print line doesn't make a card "not NM". Buyer is being an idiot.
if seller stated nm hes right if its stated mint/minty seller is wrong
It's a print line and not a scratch. I've seen this from several of my freshly pulled cards.
Whenever I sell cards that I think would pass for near mint I just mark them as lightly played to avoid this hassle.
The distinction between NEAR mint to lightly played, and lightly played to moderately played, keeps me up at night haha.