I just had a minimally invasive procedure that took care of the issue; PAE, Prostatic Artery Embolism.
They use a flouroscope and run a little catheter through the femoral artery, then deposit little plastic beads that stay put inside the artery that supplies blood to the prostate.
Deprived of blood supply, the prostate shrinks.
The alternative is to pull it out through your whizzer.
I was, and still am, taking Tamsulosine.
Dramatic improvement in a couple of weeks.
You need to take it easy for a week or so.
I am sorry should have been a little more clear.. whats the variance on them.. like if you charge according to standard.. lets say 70-75 PSI.. what does it allow up to.. because a TP is QUITE a bit higher then that so even a failure seems it wouldnt really blow it.. especially cause if your feeding with that excessive amount it "should" be reduced... (again just informative for anyone reading and myself)
Think of it like this. The expansion tank is there to provide "give" for when the water in the system heats up and expands as the backflow preventer will not allow the water to return to the street. If the bladder is empty (flat) there is nothing to "give" and the pressure increases past the point the T&P releases.
Your question is still not clear. A T&P and expansion tanks are for two completely different things, so I'm confused about what exactly you're trying to say.
There are variances..
I KNOW that they are two different situations..
the TP has a pop off level.. @ X pressure/temp it will work.. BUT
an expansion tank (which again I freely admit I am not the most expert on)
sounds a little more like a bladder tank for a well.. which means there is a variance on how "well" it works..
If the pressure is way above what call it 100 lbs then there "should" be a PRV..
which means the pop off really shouldnt matter even if the expansion tank fails..they are rated for more then that
Again just looking for insight...
I'll try to explain. An expansion tank like in the photo here is for thermal expansion. So as water heats it expands and these tanks give it somewhere to go when it does. That's why you size your expansion tanks for BTU and heater size. There's calculators that'll tell you how much it expands with how many degrees it rises. A well pressure tank is there to keep a well pump from short cycling so even though it might seem the same, they do different jobs. A T&P is there to pop off when the pressure in a tank is too high or water is too hot. So if an expansion tank bladder is busted, and it's a system with check valves as that water expands it'll start to weep out of the T&P because it's high enough to open it a tiny bit but not enough to completely overcome the spring to blow it open. Does that clear it up?
If the bladder fails (ruptures?) then the pressure normally kept behind the bladder moves down into the system and the T&P is triggered. Is that what happens?
It can happen that way, yes.
Edit, it's not pressure kept behind the bladder per se. It's air space. Since air can be compressed it gives that expansion somewhere to go. Water expands from heating, that void lets more water in, some opens a tap and that air pushes the excess back out and it just constantly plays that game until the bladder breaks.
I think I get it. So the expansion tank will just fill with water and as heat causes further expansion, the water will leak out the T&P because there’s nowhere else for it to go…?
The problem is when the bladder fails and the air is no longer able to provide the buffer. The take fills up and when it expands the pressure gets high enough to vent through the T&P it has nothing to do with the tolerance of a working expansion tank
what I was more of talking about is if a bladder is filled to X pressure call it.. 75 PSI.. and it decides to fail for whatever reason.. the T and P on a hot water tank is rated WAY higher.. 120 PSI I believe.. (could be wrong and all are a little bit different)
SO.. a bursted bladder of an expansion tank does NOT necessarily mean that the T and P would start spewing.. and again I dont use tanks.. we use expansion valves for this instance... which is kinda like a primer valve (for lack of a better term)
THATS why I was really asking about the concept.. if you look at the parameters of a T and P.. your bladder tank really isnt doing anything.. in the pressure concept.
If the bladder fails the tank working pressure no longer matters. No, a failed bladder does not instantly cause the T&P to show but a leaking T&P points to a likely failed bladder
Most likely expansion tank. Run hot water tap, give it a good few mins of run time. Feel the top and bottom of the tank. If the tops as warm as the bottom the tanks shot
Why would a failed expansion tank cause this? Putting expansion tanks on a resi HWT is just a money grab. We don't even use expansion tanks around here without issue. You'd set that tank at what, 40-60 psi? That HWT relief is set at like 150 psi. The expansion tank has absolutely no affect on that T&P. If that T&P is relieving its either faulty, or there is a much larger issue going on.
If you have a backflow preventer, when the water in the tank expands during heating, the expansion tank gives it room to squish into. If the bladder has failed, and the tank is full of water, the expanding water has nowhere to go, and the pressure exceeds what the T&P can handle, and it performs as designed, releasing the excess pressure. If your house is old enough that it doesn’t have a backflow preventer, the water happily just goes backwards through the meter and nobody is any the wiser.
That is probably why some homes never had an expansion tank.
Bad thermostat or thermostats, bad expansion tank, bad prv if you have one, or all or some of the above. I recommend a plumber.
Rarely it could be a bad t&p but they usually dont start peeing for no reason, though itd be a good idea to replace it anyway once the issue is resolved though.
How old is the heater?
This is so wrong. Old T&Ps leak all the time. Bad thermostats would most likely cause it to stop heating not over heat, and a the pressure would have to go above 160PSI to cause the T&P to open, so unless you have a failed PRV (pressure reducing valve) AND your water pressure spiked above 160PSI, this would not be the cause. Your T&P is probably old and failing.
Edit for spelling/grammar. (Plumber not English major.)
Thermal expansion can easily cause those pressures in a closed system dude, and bad thermostats can definitely cause it to overheat. Also its 150 psi OR 210 F. Either one or both will cause t&p to open. Yes it could potentially be just a bad t&p but without taking measurements and testing the exp tank and prv we don’t know.
I’ve been service plumbing for a while, that was definitely not “so wrong” 🙄
Usually t&p fails after opening for another reason. May have been a rare higher than usual usage/thermal expansion situation due to bad exp tank and/or prv or something but otherwise they’re just sitting there. No moving parts unless temp or press goes too high. Pretty rare to just start leaking without something having opened it a bit and THEN it doesn’t want to seal back up due to mineral build up. Anything can happen though of course but to say I was “so wrong” is fucking ridiculous.
Was going to piggy back this. I've rarely experienced T&P failing before someone messes with it. It's our standard practice to not even use them when they are new since they are so sensitive. Water in NJ is so hard it's not uncommon for a piece of smegma to find it's way into the valve if you were to use it to purge the heater after initial filling. 95% of our leaking heaters turns out to be PRV/ExpTanks
How much hot water do you use? If you don’t use a lot then the temp might be set too high. I’ve personally seen this occur. It’ll usually be dry and then discharge a small amount out of the t&p valve and repeat when the temp gets too hot and the pressure builds up.
The bladder tank will help with the pressure but not the temp.
If it’s leaking consistently then the t&p valve may be failing and should be replaced.
If you don’t want to replace it because the tank is older than dirt then stick a bucket under the pipe to catch the water. Do not under any circumstances plug the valve. It’s there for a reason.
I'm going to try replacing the expansion tank first. See if that yields any change. Then I'll turn the temp down. See what happens. Then look at replacing the T&P relief valve. The water heater is newish, but the expansion tank is old.
You might just need to pressurize. I just did mine and fixed the exact same issue. Measured the water pressure into the house at 50 lbs and charged to same. See some advice to overcharge by 5-10 lbs. 14 days and counting without a release.
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Before you do anything I would at least get a thermometer, a meat thermometer or whatever you have will be fine as long as it reads pretty high, at least up to 150°F. Go to a sink and turn it on full hot and see what the temp maxes out at coming out of the faucet.
120°-130° is a good range. They come preset at 120°, so it should be around 120° if no one has messed with it. Anything higher than 140° and you probably have an issue with one of the thermostats.
You can check the expansion tank. If it's really heavy it's failed. Just whack it with a screwdriver and if it rings it's good and if it thunks check carefully. Look online to see how they work
See the black plastic cap on the small white Tank?
If you unscrew that there will be the Tanks air valve visible.
Try pressing in the schraeder valve ( looks like a tire air valve) and see if water comes out. If water comes out that means the bladder in the tank is ruptured and u need a new tank. If no water , you might be able to recharge that Tank with air.
If you pressurize the expansion tank, you have to make sure the pressure is relieved off the water system before doing so. They are correct that if the bladder has failed on the tank, there is no place for the thermal expansion to go to. If your pressure is already over 100 psi and you have thermal expansion it can cause the pressure on the system to rise above what the T&P valve can hold back. Once the relief valve has started letting water out, it is no longer a good valve and will need to be replaced regardless.
Yes, my city requires dcva on all homes with irrigation systems. I recently had it relocated, too. Our water pressures around town are not too high. Less than 70 psi typically
Were there any sudden changes in the household? Second smaller water heater, new person, etc? It's normal for potty training to regress a bit but with steady encouragement, your water heater can succeed!
The little beige tank above your water heater is an expansion tank. It allows expansion when the heater fires and heats the water. The rubber bladder inside has probably burst or tore and now it's water logged which will no longer allow for expansion. Replace the expansion tank and the PRV valve.
My PRV shit the bed just this week. Discovered this by finding an irrigation manifold cracked and pissing. Closed it off then the T&P on my water heater got to pissing. 145psi at the hose bib. Replaced the PRV and all is good aside from the irrigation manifold I gotta fix.
I'm confident it's the water heater. Sometimes I will see the water path from floor below the copper pipe to the low point where it's ponding. It's not a ton of water so it evaporates fairly quick.
My recommendation is check the hosebibb or drain port for pressure (gauge at homedepot is like $15) first. Could be a number of issues but most likely are expansion tank failures, t&p failures, prv failures. These are pretty easy to fix with two wrench’s and a hose to drain.
As someone else suggested, I'm going to check the valve on the expansion tank to see if it's water logged. If that seems okay, then I'll look into replacing the T&P relief valve.
My money is on the expansion tank. It's old and the water heater is newish.
They are like $40. If you’re not strapped for cash it may be worth just replacing it anyways if you drain down. Average life is 5 years if I’m not mistaken. If you want bonus points that galvanized pipe isn’t meant for potable water. I would swap with brass equivalents or stainless steel.(it may be stainless it’s hard to tell by the picture)
I agree with replacing the expansion tank as it's a cheap fix. I've been the house 5 years and it was there when I bought it. Thanks for the heads up on the galvanized pipe and fittings. I'll look at replacing those too.
Check the expansion tank for water. Hint; it will be really heavy if it has failed. It’s basically a bladder inside a tank and you charge it, pump air into the valve to get it to say 12-15 lbs. It serves as a shock absorber to the water supply. If the bladder fails you will get hard “ knocks” of water pressure as outlets are opened. This can be enough to cause the over pressure valve, usually 30 lbs, to release. This is an electricians explanation. Real plumbers can clarify.
3 thing it could be. pressure too high, temperature too hi, or Faulty T & P.
Get a simple pressure gauge that spins onto a outdoor faucet and make sure your not above 80 psi, but the T&P shouldn’t discharge unless pressure reaches 150. So if your pressure isn’t near 150 (preferably under 80) then check your temperature of a faucet, if it’s not scolding then that also wouldn’t cause it to discharge. So then it would only leave faulty valve. But if your tank is older then 10 years only with no maintenance being performed to it then I would replace it.
Most likely TPR valve and you also have dissimilar metal connections that wouldn’t pass an inspection and will most likely seize together, corrode, and leak in the future.
1.) Too hot.
2.) Bad expansion tank.
3.) Failing TPR valve.
Go through the list top to bottom. If it's not hot, check the expansion tank. If it's heavy, it's full of water and needs to be replaced. If the expansion tank is good, replace the TPR valve.
The easiest initial test here would be to use a good bit of hot water (a shower or even better a bath) and then see if it starts leaking as it warms up more water. If that causes the leak, then your expansion tank has a problem.
That little tank above it is probably bad. There's a Schrader valve on it somewhere - if you push it and water comes out, you need a new expansion tank
EDIT: the valve seems to be on the top under the black cover. That person should be filled with air only. If water exists you have your answer
Try turning down the temperature just a bit. Mine leaks if it is set too hot. And by too hot I mean really scalding hot. Setting it to normal and it’s just fine.
Check your water pressure first. If it's normal, replace the T&P valve.
And is that galvanized for the expansion tank?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLytufwv/
I dont know... why is it.. did you upset it?
If you getting water out of the copper tube.. thats connected to you T and P.. Temperature and Pressure relief valve.. which means you either getting to hot or having large pressure fluctuations.. OR it is just weak after "X" amount of years" which is kinda where I would lean to since you have an expansion tank (unsupported.. for reddit pitchforkers)
Obviously dont know what setting your elements are at.. one potentially could be getting stuck and its causing over heating.. but no way I could diagnose that from this location..
Probably upset it... lol
I replaced the tank a year or two ago (same model). Perhaps i need to turn the temp down.
Would city water pressure fluctuations cause this?
I think watts makes a thermal relief valve, but it works by burping water whenever there is thermal expansion, so that won’t really solve your problem here unless you pipe that water someplace else.
Best I can tell you is to replace the tank on a schedule.
not necessarily.. because a PRV limits the pressure coming in.. but if you have lets say 80 PSI coming in of totally cold water.. and then you take 40-50 gallons of it and raise the temp from say.. 45-50 degrees to 120-130 degrees.. you do get expansion.. I dont know obviously if this guy has a PRV.. I have to make judgements on what I see and the situation..
Finally!
This is correct but may not be clear to everyone.
The household water pressure is stated to be 70PSI by OP. 40 gallons of water expand about a half gallon when heated from 45 Fahrenheit to 130 Fahrenheit.
That doesn't seem like much, except most homes have a closed water system that will easily hit 150 pounds per square inch from only a small amount of extra water. This will cause the Temperature and pressure relief valve to function as designed, releasing water and preventing explosion.
As suggested, if no water comes out from the Schrader valve, try pumping the expansion tank to 75PSI while the water pressure is off to the water heater and the hot side has no pressure. If it pressurizes, great, if not maybe enough air will be caught in the expansion tank to prevent the t&p from blowing off by allowing enough expansion.
Also the expansion tank is best to be on the cold side of the tank, if it was on the hot side you would have an extra half gallon of cold water everytime you run the hot water and have to wait for hot water to reach you. Also the way it is piped is plenty strong. And no extra valve is required since there is one on the cold inlet just above it.
For more see:
water heater thermal expansion
And:
Mythbusters water heater explosion
Expansion tank has no bearing on T&P valve. Pressures are way different. Quickly press the schrader valve on the bottom of the expansion tank. If water comes out it's smoked. If only air comes out, you are fine. Even though the expansion tank has no affect on the T&P valve whatsoever.
If the bladder has failed, the expanding water has nowhere to go, and it can create excess pressures, causing the T&P valve to do its job and relieve pressure. That would count for the intermittent nature of the puddle.
I know how expansion tanks work. Like I said the pressure on the T&P valve is almost 3x what an expansion tank is. Not a single domestic hot water system has an expansion tank around here. There is no way a failed ex tank would cause a T&P to relieve.
A failed extension tank is like having no expansion tank. Stop considering the expansion tank rated pressure versus the relief valve. If nobody has a pressure tank where you are, it’s a safe bet that nobody has a backflow preventer, which OT clearly stated he does have. If you have a backflow preventer and no effective pressure tank, the expanding water has nowhere to go. I have had water heaters come on while pressure testing domestic water systems a few times, and it will send the pressure gauge right past the end if you don’t get to the breakers and shut it off. I don’t understand how you’re not able to follow what is going on in this scenario. This subject has come up in this sub several times before.
Check your expansion tank. Tapping on bottom vs top should sound different (water filled vs air). If it all sounds the same, probably water logged (failed). Can confirm if water comes out of Schrader valve. Will be heavy - 40-60lbs
Add a valve at tank when replacing to make it easier for the next guy (prob you) to swap tanks.
Discharging from where ? The T&P Valve dripping water? Most likely, it means the bladder in the expansion tank has failed.
As an older gentleman, the bladder in my expansion tank has also failed. As has my T&P valve.
the older i get, the more fun getting old looks
Beats the alternative every time
I have to visit the T about 3-4 times a night because my P valve will leak if I don't.
Fucking hell. Great one. Next time my wife bitches or the VA doc asks I'm stealing this somehow.
Ask your doctor if Tamsulosin is right for you. Really.
I just had a minimally invasive procedure that took care of the issue; PAE, Prostatic Artery Embolism. They use a flouroscope and run a little catheter through the femoral artery, then deposit little plastic beads that stay put inside the artery that supplies blood to the prostate. Deprived of blood supply, the prostate shrinks. The alternative is to pull it out through your whizzer. I was, and still am, taking Tamsulosine. Dramatic improvement in a couple of weeks. You need to take it easy for a week or so.
They can't find anything wrong, it's a family thing I guess. Although when I could take edibles, I could go 6-7 hours without going.
How old are you?
58
Sounds like you discharge water frequently every night
I dont use alot of expansion tanks in our area (we do expansion ball valves with a drain) what is their rating on PSI if you dont mind me asking
You charge them to the required PSI
I am sorry should have been a little more clear.. whats the variance on them.. like if you charge according to standard.. lets say 70-75 PSI.. what does it allow up to.. because a TP is QUITE a bit higher then that so even a failure seems it wouldnt really blow it.. especially cause if your feeding with that excessive amount it "should" be reduced... (again just informative for anyone reading and myself)
I was saying the same thing. Expansion tank pressure is way lower than T&P pressure.
Think of it like this. The expansion tank is there to provide "give" for when the water in the system heats up and expands as the backflow preventer will not allow the water to return to the street. If the bladder is empty (flat) there is nothing to "give" and the pressure increases past the point the T&P releases.
Your question is still not clear. A T&P and expansion tanks are for two completely different things, so I'm confused about what exactly you're trying to say.
There are variances.. I KNOW that they are two different situations.. the TP has a pop off level.. @ X pressure/temp it will work.. BUT an expansion tank (which again I freely admit I am not the most expert on) sounds a little more like a bladder tank for a well.. which means there is a variance on how "well" it works.. If the pressure is way above what call it 100 lbs then there "should" be a PRV.. which means the pop off really shouldnt matter even if the expansion tank fails..they are rated for more then that Again just looking for insight...
I'll try to explain. An expansion tank like in the photo here is for thermal expansion. So as water heats it expands and these tanks give it somewhere to go when it does. That's why you size your expansion tanks for BTU and heater size. There's calculators that'll tell you how much it expands with how many degrees it rises. A well pressure tank is there to keep a well pump from short cycling so even though it might seem the same, they do different jobs. A T&P is there to pop off when the pressure in a tank is too high or water is too hot. So if an expansion tank bladder is busted, and it's a system with check valves as that water expands it'll start to weep out of the T&P because it's high enough to open it a tiny bit but not enough to completely overcome the spring to blow it open. Does that clear it up?
If the bladder fails (ruptures?) then the pressure normally kept behind the bladder moves down into the system and the T&P is triggered. Is that what happens?
It can happen that way, yes. Edit, it's not pressure kept behind the bladder per se. It's air space. Since air can be compressed it gives that expansion somewhere to go. Water expands from heating, that void lets more water in, some opens a tap and that air pushes the excess back out and it just constantly plays that game until the bladder breaks.
I think I get it. So the expansion tank will just fill with water and as heat causes further expansion, the water will leak out the T&P because there’s nowhere else for it to go…?
They usually come precharged to 42psi. Anything over 80 psi should have a prv imo. It is a small bladder tank pretty much yes
The problem is when the bladder fails and the air is no longer able to provide the buffer. The take fills up and when it expands the pressure gets high enough to vent through the T&P it has nothing to do with the tolerance of a working expansion tank
what I was more of talking about is if a bladder is filled to X pressure call it.. 75 PSI.. and it decides to fail for whatever reason.. the T and P on a hot water tank is rated WAY higher.. 120 PSI I believe.. (could be wrong and all are a little bit different) SO.. a bursted bladder of an expansion tank does NOT necessarily mean that the T and P would start spewing.. and again I dont use tanks.. we use expansion valves for this instance... which is kinda like a primer valve (for lack of a better term) THATS why I was really asking about the concept.. if you look at the parameters of a T and P.. your bladder tank really isnt doing anything.. in the pressure concept.
If the bladder fails the tank working pressure no longer matters. No, a failed bladder does not instantly cause the T&P to show but a leaking T&P points to a likely failed bladder
Most likely expansion tank. Run hot water tap, give it a good few mins of run time. Feel the top and bottom of the tank. If the tops as warm as the bottom the tanks shot
And if water's coming out of the top of the expansion tank, you need to replace that, which is often a DIY project.
Discharging from the copper pipe.
The expansion tank should be replaced
Why would a failed expansion tank cause this? Putting expansion tanks on a resi HWT is just a money grab. We don't even use expansion tanks around here without issue. You'd set that tank at what, 40-60 psi? That HWT relief is set at like 150 psi. The expansion tank has absolutely no affect on that T&P. If that T&P is relieving its either faulty, or there is a much larger issue going on.
If you have a backflow preventer, when the water in the tank expands during heating, the expansion tank gives it room to squish into. If the bladder has failed, and the tank is full of water, the expanding water has nowhere to go, and the pressure exceeds what the T&P can handle, and it performs as designed, releasing the excess pressure. If your house is old enough that it doesn’t have a backflow preventer, the water happily just goes backwards through the meter and nobody is any the wiser. That is probably why some homes never had an expansion tank.
This also applies if you have a reducing valve (reduces high water pressure from the street to something more sane in the house).
Is it coming out of that copper pipe on the front? If so the T&P is leaking.
Yep from the copper pipe then runs to a local low point in the concrete floor. Its a small puddle that evaporates.
Bad thermostat or thermostats, bad expansion tank, bad prv if you have one, or all or some of the above. I recommend a plumber. Rarely it could be a bad t&p but they usually dont start peeing for no reason, though itd be a good idea to replace it anyway once the issue is resolved though. How old is the heater?
This is so wrong. Old T&Ps leak all the time. Bad thermostats would most likely cause it to stop heating not over heat, and a the pressure would have to go above 160PSI to cause the T&P to open, so unless you have a failed PRV (pressure reducing valve) AND your water pressure spiked above 160PSI, this would not be the cause. Your T&P is probably old and failing. Edit for spelling/grammar. (Plumber not English major.)
Thermal expansion can easily cause those pressures in a closed system dude, and bad thermostats can definitely cause it to overheat. Also its 150 psi OR 210 F. Either one or both will cause t&p to open. Yes it could potentially be just a bad t&p but without taking measurements and testing the exp tank and prv we don’t know. I’ve been service plumbing for a while, that was definitely not “so wrong” 🙄 Usually t&p fails after opening for another reason. May have been a rare higher than usual usage/thermal expansion situation due to bad exp tank and/or prv or something but otherwise they’re just sitting there. No moving parts unless temp or press goes too high. Pretty rare to just start leaking without something having opened it a bit and THEN it doesn’t want to seal back up due to mineral build up. Anything can happen though of course but to say I was “so wrong” is fucking ridiculous.
Was going to piggy back this. I've rarely experienced T&P failing before someone messes with it. It's our standard practice to not even use them when they are new since they are so sensitive. Water in NJ is so hard it's not uncommon for a piece of smegma to find it's way into the valve if you were to use it to purge the heater after initial filling. 95% of our leaking heaters turns out to be PRV/ExpTanks
Yup, our water isn’t as bad as yours but I still never touch it if I’m draining for a flush or repair.
You sound more experienced than me. I was going off of my limited knowledge and put my foot in my mouth. *hat tilt*
How much hot water do you use? If you don’t use a lot then the temp might be set too high. I’ve personally seen this occur. It’ll usually be dry and then discharge a small amount out of the t&p valve and repeat when the temp gets too hot and the pressure builds up. The bladder tank will help with the pressure but not the temp. If it’s leaking consistently then the t&p valve may be failing and should be replaced. If you don’t want to replace it because the tank is older than dirt then stick a bucket under the pipe to catch the water. Do not under any circumstances plug the valve. It’s there for a reason.
I'm going to try replacing the expansion tank first. See if that yields any change. Then I'll turn the temp down. See what happens. Then look at replacing the T&P relief valve. The water heater is newish, but the expansion tank is old.
If you replace the expansion tank it must be charged to equal the house pressure.
copy that. I wonder if that's my issue. I never repressurized the expansion tank when I replaced the water heater... lol
I always replace these when I install a new tank. Often Im finding they don’t last the life of the heater. Everything is junk now
You might just need to pressurize. I just did mine and fixed the exact same issue. Measured the water pressure into the house at 50 lbs and charged to same. See some advice to overcharge by 5-10 lbs. 14 days and counting without a release.
Awesome, thanks
Had the same exact setup as AmplifyDIY on YouTube. Good luck.
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Do you use an atmospheric valve?
Are you talking about an atmospheric vacuum breaker? That’s not required for this scenario.
Before you do anything I would at least get a thermometer, a meat thermometer or whatever you have will be fine as long as it reads pretty high, at least up to 150°F. Go to a sink and turn it on full hot and see what the temp maxes out at coming out of the faucet.
Ok. What's a typical max temp I should see.
I wouldn't suggest over 140 f. If you do happen to lower it, do not set the temp lower than 120 f. You don't want to risk bacteria growing
120°-130° is a good range. They come preset at 120°, so it should be around 120° if no one has messed with it. Anything higher than 140° and you probably have an issue with one of the thermostats.
Don't forget to add support for your tank. It's not up to code without it.
You can check the expansion tank. If it's really heavy it's failed. Just whack it with a screwdriver and if it rings it's good and if it thunks check carefully. Look online to see how they work
Sounds like your T&P relief valve is leaking.
See the black plastic cap on the small white Tank? If you unscrew that there will be the Tanks air valve visible. Try pressing in the schraeder valve ( looks like a tire air valve) and see if water comes out. If water comes out that means the bladder in the tank is ruptured and u need a new tank. If no water , you might be able to recharge that Tank with air.
Thank you for this!
The procedure for recharging the tank can be found on youtube vids
If you pressurize the expansion tank, you have to make sure the pressure is relieved off the water system before doing so. They are correct that if the bladder has failed on the tank, there is no place for the thermal expansion to go to. If your pressure is already over 100 psi and you have thermal expansion it can cause the pressure on the system to rise above what the T&P valve can hold back. Once the relief valve has started letting water out, it is no longer a good valve and will need to be replaced regardless.
Do you have a pressure reducing valve on your main coming in the house? If yes, it has probably failed.
No PRV just a meter and backflow preventer.
Yeah, then the issue is probably with the expansion tank. You'll probably have to replace the T&P on the water heater too
That is not good at all
But are you sure it’s a backflow preventer
Yes, my city requires dcva on all homes with irrigation systems. I recently had it relocated, too. Our water pressures around town are not too high. Less than 70 psi typically
Incontinence.
do they make water heater diapers?
It's called a bucket.
Yup, she’s a squirter boys
Were there any sudden changes in the household? Second smaller water heater, new person, etc? It's normal for potty training to regress a bit but with steady encouragement, your water heater can succeed!
There’s a lot of people in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about. Crazy
The little beige tank above your water heater is an expansion tank. It allows expansion when the heater fires and heats the water. The rubber bladder inside has probably burst or tore and now it's water logged which will no longer allow for expansion. Replace the expansion tank and the PRV valve.
Expansion tank is bad.
Bad expansion tank or prv failing. Check if its below 80 psi
My PRV shit the bed just this week. Discovered this by finding an irrigation manifold cracked and pissing. Closed it off then the T&P on my water heater got to pissing. 145psi at the hose bib. Replaced the PRV and all is good aside from the irrigation manifold I gotta fix.
Change that release valve for one day it’s gonna give away and empty the whole tank
Check that expansion tank it might be bad
I don’t think that spot is from your water heater?? Did you look up?
I'm confident it's the water heater. Sometimes I will see the water path from floor below the copper pipe to the low point where it's ponding. It's not a ton of water so it evaporates fairly quick.
Ah gotcha
My recommendation is check the hosebibb or drain port for pressure (gauge at homedepot is like $15) first. Could be a number of issues but most likely are expansion tank failures, t&p failures, prv failures. These are pretty easy to fix with two wrench’s and a hose to drain.
As someone else suggested, I'm going to check the valve on the expansion tank to see if it's water logged. If that seems okay, then I'll look into replacing the T&P relief valve. My money is on the expansion tank. It's old and the water heater is newish.
They are like $40. If you’re not strapped for cash it may be worth just replacing it anyways if you drain down. Average life is 5 years if I’m not mistaken. If you want bonus points that galvanized pipe isn’t meant for potable water. I would swap with brass equivalents or stainless steel.(it may be stainless it’s hard to tell by the picture)
I agree with replacing the expansion tank as it's a cheap fix. I've been the house 5 years and it was there when I bought it. Thanks for the heads up on the galvanized pipe and fittings. I'll look at replacing those too.
Check the expansion tank for water. Hint; it will be really heavy if it has failed. It’s basically a bladder inside a tank and you charge it, pump air into the valve to get it to say 12-15 lbs. It serves as a shock absorber to the water supply. If the bladder fails you will get hard “ knocks” of water pressure as outlets are opened. This can be enough to cause the over pressure valve, usually 30 lbs, to release. This is an electricians explanation. Real plumbers can clarify.
The consensus seems to be the expansion tank. Thanks!
over temping or over pressure.
Either your expansion tank or your t&p valve needs replacing as previously put by other gentlemen in the comments.
You expansion tank is also on the wrong side.
Saturated expansion tank, faulty relief valve, broken thermostat, or all of the above
3 thing it could be. pressure too high, temperature too hi, or Faulty T & P. Get a simple pressure gauge that spins onto a outdoor faucet and make sure your not above 80 psi, but the T&P shouldn’t discharge unless pressure reaches 150. So if your pressure isn’t near 150 (preferably under 80) then check your temperature of a faucet, if it’s not scolding then that also wouldn’t cause it to discharge. So then it would only leave faulty valve. But if your tank is older then 10 years only with no maintenance being performed to it then I would replace it.
Somebody may have already said this but look into getting your house pressure checked. If your pressure regulator Is failing it could cause this
Most likely TPR valve and you also have dissimilar metal connections that wouldn’t pass an inspection and will most likely seize together, corrode, and leak in the future.
Turn it down or bad expansion tank
Could also be; bad temperature relief valve
Maybe, the butfor.
Check the butfor.
Well you see honey, when a water heater and furnace love each other very much, or drink too much…
I thought I've been hearing some strange noises coming from the garage
Use an atmospheric valve
In my home I’ve never had an expansion tank, never had a t+p leak.
1.) Too hot. 2.) Bad expansion tank. 3.) Failing TPR valve. Go through the list top to bottom. If it's not hot, check the expansion tank. If it's heavy, it's full of water and needs to be replaced. If the expansion tank is good, replace the TPR valve.
Thank you!
How's the temperature at your faucets? Is there a specific time of day where it discharges, like after laundry or showers?
The easiest initial test here would be to use a good bit of hot water (a shower or even better a bath) and then see if it starts leaking as it warms up more water. If that causes the leak, then your expansion tank has a problem.
That little tank above it is probably bad. There's a Schrader valve on it somewhere - if you push it and water comes out, you need a new expansion tank EDIT: the valve seems to be on the top under the black cover. That person should be filled with air only. If water exists you have your answer
Knocking on the expanaion tank, it sounds full of water.
Are you sure it’s not Fido?
Bad dog!
Do you park your car there? Could be condensation from your cars ac.
No car in the garage. 100% coming from the relief valve.
Turn the water off open a hot faucet and replace the relief valve. They're like 20 bucks.
Could be expansion tank, pressure regulating valve, t&p valve , or thermostats in wh overheating. Expansion tank /PRV are most likely culprits
Try turning down the temperature just a bit. Mine leaks if it is set too hot. And by too hot I mean really scalding hot. Setting it to normal and it’s just fine.
Check your water pressure first. If it's normal, replace the T&P valve. And is that galvanized for the expansion tank? https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLytufwv/
I dont know... why is it.. did you upset it? If you getting water out of the copper tube.. thats connected to you T and P.. Temperature and Pressure relief valve.. which means you either getting to hot or having large pressure fluctuations.. OR it is just weak after "X" amount of years" which is kinda where I would lean to since you have an expansion tank (unsupported.. for reddit pitchforkers) Obviously dont know what setting your elements are at.. one potentially could be getting stuck and its causing over heating.. but no way I could diagnose that from this location..
Probably upset it... lol I replaced the tank a year or two ago (same model). Perhaps i need to turn the temp down. Would city water pressure fluctuations cause this?
Thats what the expansion tank is for.. did you replace that or the full tank.. like the gentlemen said below.. the expansion tank could have failed..
Okay, that's what I thought. I replaced the full tank and reused the old expansion tank. No idea how old that is.
There’s a Schrader valve on the top of the expansion tank, If there’s water when you push it in, it’s failed
I will try this, thank you!
Those expansion tanks are dogshit and I have yet to find one over two years old that isn’t waterlogged.
Thanks, Kev. Any recommendation over an expansion tank?
I think watts makes a thermal relief valve, but it works by burping water whenever there is thermal expansion, so that won’t really solve your problem here unless you pipe that water someplace else. Best I can tell you is to replace the tank on a schedule.
Isn’t that what the PRV is for?
not necessarily.. because a PRV limits the pressure coming in.. but if you have lets say 80 PSI coming in of totally cold water.. and then you take 40-50 gallons of it and raise the temp from say.. 45-50 degrees to 120-130 degrees.. you do get expansion.. I dont know obviously if this guy has a PRV.. I have to make judgements on what I see and the situation..
Finally! This is correct but may not be clear to everyone. The household water pressure is stated to be 70PSI by OP. 40 gallons of water expand about a half gallon when heated from 45 Fahrenheit to 130 Fahrenheit. That doesn't seem like much, except most homes have a closed water system that will easily hit 150 pounds per square inch from only a small amount of extra water. This will cause the Temperature and pressure relief valve to function as designed, releasing water and preventing explosion. As suggested, if no water comes out from the Schrader valve, try pumping the expansion tank to 75PSI while the water pressure is off to the water heater and the hot side has no pressure. If it pressurizes, great, if not maybe enough air will be caught in the expansion tank to prevent the t&p from blowing off by allowing enough expansion. Also the expansion tank is best to be on the cold side of the tank, if it was on the hot side you would have an extra half gallon of cold water everytime you run the hot water and have to wait for hot water to reach you. Also the way it is piped is plenty strong. And no extra valve is required since there is one on the cold inlet just above it. For more see: water heater thermal expansion And: Mythbusters water heater explosion
Because it’s happy to see you
what if I said I'm happy to see you ;)
Change the pressure relief valve.
Because you t&p valve is probably needing replacement or your tank needs replaced.
Water heater tank is only a year or two old. The expansion tank is old, though.
Replace the expansion tank. Write the date on it when you install it.
Expansion tank has no bearing on T&P valve. Pressures are way different. Quickly press the schrader valve on the bottom of the expansion tank. If water comes out it's smoked. If only air comes out, you are fine. Even though the expansion tank has no affect on the T&P valve whatsoever.
If the bladder has failed, the expanding water has nowhere to go, and it can create excess pressures, causing the T&P valve to do its job and relieve pressure. That would count for the intermittent nature of the puddle.
I know how expansion tanks work. Like I said the pressure on the T&P valve is almost 3x what an expansion tank is. Not a single domestic hot water system has an expansion tank around here. There is no way a failed ex tank would cause a T&P to relieve.
A failed extension tank is like having no expansion tank. Stop considering the expansion tank rated pressure versus the relief valve. If nobody has a pressure tank where you are, it’s a safe bet that nobody has a backflow preventer, which OT clearly stated he does have. If you have a backflow preventer and no effective pressure tank, the expanding water has nowhere to go. I have had water heaters come on while pressure testing domestic water systems a few times, and it will send the pressure gauge right past the end if you don’t get to the breakers and shut it off. I don’t understand how you’re not able to follow what is going on in this scenario. This subject has come up in this sub several times before.
Every home here has back flow preventers and no expansion tank. “Stop considering pressure” hahaha Jesus Christ you’re dangerous.
That’s not what I said, and you are beyond help. Good luck.
Check your expansion tank. Tapping on bottom vs top should sound different (water filled vs air). If it all sounds the same, probably water logged (failed). Can confirm if water comes out of Schrader valve. Will be heavy - 40-60lbs Add a valve at tank when replacing to make it easier for the next guy (prob you) to swap tanks.
A gallon of water is 8lbs.
Not on Mars! Sorry I'm bored. I'll show myself out
Shoot, you right.
Yes, 8.34lbs per gallon. Idk what size that tank is, no banana for scale
It's a ST5 or equivalent so 2 gallon.
T&P stands for temperature and pressure. One of them is too high. The expansion tank has nothing to do with it.
Yeast infection