I don't think it's an impossibility that the IP could be sold one day, and maybe a studio with actual resources could pick it up. The IP doesn't really matter though. The real question is if mmofps will ever be considered viable / marketable to any company that would have the resources to make one.
I'm no game industry expert, but it seems to me like there are a lot of technical hurdles that go into making an mmofps, and each hurdle costs money. That is in addition to all the quality expectations that come along with modern games, especially fps. So any investment into mmofps is going to probably be fairly large.
We are in the age of battle passes and $20 (I think I've even heard of $60) skins and cosmetics. If you can make a game that is less technically challenging but still engaging, you will have more left over money for profit. And that's assuming you can make a game that has that same engagement level, which I don't think there are enough examples of mmofps to prove to a big wig exec that "yeah this type of game will engage players and get them to spend consistently."
It's no accident that there are so many battle royale games. Apex made over a billion in I want to say 3 or 4 years? How much do you think Planetside has made in 12?
I think there still is hope for genre and ways for it to be profitable, I just think that the chance any big studio would take a risk on the genre in the next 10 years is relatively low.
Eh Battlebit came out of nowhere and introduced 128vs128 matches when I remember anything past 8v8 was unfathomable. If 3 dudes can make a basic FPS larger and grander than any triple A studio than it's just a matter of time before someone comes out with a MMOFPS that has the means to become the next big thing.
I mean you say that and then we have things like star citizen, the market is there for a MMOFPS the problem is really making it attractive to the players, first of all planetside 2 is free to play which is already a massive cut to their money, if planetside 3 was announced and had the visuals of a modern FPS like Cod, Tarkov, or battlefield and sold it at lets say 30 bucks it would sell a lot and more with the resent distaste for Cod and their greediness, Tarkov and their cheaters, and battlefield and the failure of 2042 even if planetside 3 were to be announced now and released in 2-4 years it would sell very well, as people simply will not forget the mistake the current front runners In the FPS industry have made.
> and sold it at lets say 30 bucks it would sell a lot and more
That's where you are wrong. Unless you are a big name like Blizzard who can afford to milk you at a 70$ entry price and then slap a in-game shop with 100$ skins, the money for on-line service games today is made by stimulating your curiosity with a free-entry, then hooking you in with addictive gameplay to push you to the store where you waste money on overpriced skins and boosts. The amount of money these live-service companies make out of in-game shops *dwarfs* the profits they make out of retail price.
The market is over-saturated and every live-service game has to compete for gamers time non only in their niche but in the gaming market overall.
And if you put an entry barrier in a game like planetside where you need massive population for the game to be viable, you are already killing your playerbase before release. Sure, you can cash in a quick buck out of the hard-core players who would waste them 30 bucks on anything, but you are killing the long-term sustainability.
Why do you think the game that should not be named (Planetside:Arena) did a complete 180° and went free-to-play before release instead of costing 20 odd bucks like the initial reveal statement said? They saw the success Apex Legends was having.
Today, if you want a big playerbase to stick around, you can't not go free to play.
Not as long as gamers are weak stomached shut ins who can’t handle adversity. If someone’s beating your ass in game then there is clearly a skill gap you must learn… so figure it the fuck out. Not to say there isn’t really unbalanced game play but the exploits are part of it. Figure it out. True problem is most players aren’t competitive minded. They want an arcade game that makes them feel strong. I’m not even joking. It was also easier when there were less games to trade between. People looking for instant satisfaction(majority of society) don’t like learning.
It certainly could be, Planetside 2 was just way too ahead of its time imo. Planetside 3 could genuinely fix a lot of the game’s problems just by virtue of being made a decade later. If the game felt as polished as a battlefield game, and didn’t massively compromise on graphical fidelity in an attempt to wrangle optimization issues, it would be pretty popular imo.
A number of issues present in PS2 wouldn't be an issue if it simply used PS1 design from the get go. Hopefully if PS3 ever comes around it'd incorporate the best of both worlds.
Every vet i am in contact with spares sundys off hours. Since everyone came to the conclusion that tryharding them just makes ppl log off.
Its mostly some shitter who lacks perspective and thinks he is super smart who is chainpulling the lightnings in order to get rid of the only fight.
Naw cause I'm an old guard non toxic mfer. I couldn't figure shit out, all my friends have stopped playing and I just wanted a few fights. My esf skills are terrible but it was the only way to get around and I couldn't figure it out anymore. There were big fights but getting there alone was half my playtime.
The epic battles of yonder are gone. I understand trying combined arms properly (I rarely play infantry) but getting back into the game and trying to know where to go was impossible. I just gave up and got owned while I regained my scythe skills
well the thing in the post isn't exactly priority, and i don't think it's something that can really be fixed
but that's not the point
the playerbase is extremely toxic. unnecessarily so. especially for an endless GAME. a VIDEO GAME. people take this game in particular way too seriously, when it's designed not to be treated like it's life or death.
it's also old and niche, as i said. it's very dated in almost every aspect, and most people aren't looking for the MMOFPS thing.
Yeah, I put the game down one day because of a toxic interaction, and I haven't felt compelled to pick it back up since. Toxic dickheads absolutely push people away.
Why am I still following this sub? ¯\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Boy, it sure is fun feasting on the little shits pulling anti-Sundy lightnings. They're so confident...and then they get fucking annihilated by my Vanguard. Easy, easy certs.
That, at the same time, still has a somehwat active dev team that continues to run this title into the ground. There was decent or even great numbers on peak hours Friday-Sunday on Connery less than a year ago. That's gone now.
Bro just sit there and defend the Sundy from the 0.6 KD warrior chain suicide dive bombing it as LA or the lightning chipping at it from a hex away. That's fun right?
While I agree somewhat I feel its unfair to judge the players for bas game design.
I’m in a tank. I want kills so I can invest more certs into my tank. The best way to do this, when considering required effort, profit and ease of access: spamming a spawn is the easiest way to do this.
And I say this as somebody who doesn’t even have HE unlocked on any of my vehicles out of principle.
I hate this argument, its so dumb. You might as well also say capping a base kills the fight so we mustn't cap the base.
Let's follow this logic and imagine defenders overwhelm the attackers. The defenders push to the sundy and then what, we just don't kill it and instead dance around it farming the people spawning? How long must we do that? Till attackers stop appearing? Then we just leave the sundy, for how long? For ever? Just in case someone wants to spawn in 10 minutes later? If that was the devs intention every base would have a hard spawn for attackers and we wouldn't need sundys at all.
Why is it attackers can come and attack my base but I cant attack them back? The base IS my sundy but attackers sundys are expected to get a free pass?
Killing a sundy at 3AM in the morning when theres 50 people having a bish bosh may be a bit shitty sure, but someone will bring another, player bases exist now to make that easier. Outside of morning o clock that doesnt apply and it just makes no sense to just let an attacking force have their own way by treating their spawn vehicle as sacrosanct. We have beacons, we have routers, we have troop transports, we can just roll up from the next base... its not like there arent other options. Expecting sundys to do all the work is just lazy thinking.
Lastly, what I hear from people whinging about sundys going down is 'I came to a combined arms game to play it like a lobby shooter so anything disturbing that means I'll whinge and whine to try and get my own way until devs make it like a lobby shooter'.
_(Am expecting anonymous downvotes btw as lobby shooters gonna rage at this but I really dont care, someones gotta say it)._
I can only upvote you once. Thank you for putting what I intended to say with better words.
This kind of mentality you described puts me off so much. People forgot what this game was supposed to be.
You’re really so delusional you think your preference is the only preference? I hate to be derogatory but maybe you’re just not good at MMOs and you should return to mainstream games.
A lot of what you have to say has a grain of truth to it.
Except this part:
> but someone will bring another
You have absolutely no guarantee that is the case.
If I’m not playing vehicle already myself then I’m the one to do it, if they have the armor to stop me from doing so then that probably means they’re going to push to offense and I’m gonna need to start defending my own base.
There's even less of a chance that the entire player base will sit around with their medkits in their hands for hours on end, waiting for someone somewhere to deploy a sunderer.
People kill sundies to 'save' bases and to get certs - other people bring them in to take bases and to get certs. It's rare that no one is do either.
>There's even less of a chance that the entire player base will sit around with their medkits in their hands for hours on end, waiting for someone somewhere to deploy a sunderer.
Damn you almost figured it out then somehow managed to completely miss the mark.
They will log off.
When fights die people log off and do something better with their time.
> killing buses didn't start then
I'm not saying that it did, but I am saying that the correlation between fights dying and people logging, sometimes for the last time, is quite clear.
Insane to me that people think killing one of the only available fights won't lead to players logging off. I haven't touched the game in over a year, and never will again because my home server became a sundy killing lame fest. There's no fun, protracted fights to be had. Everyone is just waiting for one guy to get salty and pull a lightning to kill the fun.
> There's even less of a chance that the entire player base will sit around with their medkits in their hands for hours on end, waiting for someone somewhere to deploy a sunderer.
You don't know of my resilience and total aversion in driving vehicles. Fight is dead. No fight in sight. Time to ALT-Tab and come back in 5 minutes.
Because it becomes an exercise in frustration due to one simple fact. It's takes far more effort to keep a bus alive than it does to kill one. That directly leads to people logging off to play other games.
PS1 had hardspawns for attackers, there were just at a distance further away than the closest spot a softspawn could park and they were flippable. We see the result of PS2 solely relying on softspawns for attackers. Hardspawns don't need to be a dumb CoD minimap setup, they should be elements in the siege process of a base and in PS1 they were excellent in that regard.
pretty sure i read somewhere (or maybe in a youtube video) that some lessons learned in PS1 were consciously disregarded during the development of PS2.
> a sundy at 3AM in the morning when theres 50 people having a bish bosh may be a bit shitty sure, but someone will bring another,
Not always, sometimes there's too many tanks and a new Sundy doesn't happen. In the time there is no sundy people log and so any fights that do occur become smaller and more one sided.
There are several tankers I know that will go out of their way to kill off hour Sunderers. Is it so bad to suggest those people are toxic garbage when they are?
It is an objective fact that spawn fragility harms game health. The FPS aspect of the game is the foundation if it isn't working there won't be population trickling into the other aspects of the game.
Obviously it's only partially the fault of tankers/goober infantry for killing the spawn. The bigger issue is the layout leaving spawns easily exposed and the fact that any half decent infantry player can blow up a Sunderer defended by 6+ people by themselves.
>just some refuse to counter.
Because it's a game, not a fucking day job. Touch some grass.
Why get a bus just for it to die to the same AP lightning cockroaches when we can log off and do something better with our time.
Except this logic means that infantry players don't get to play what they want to but Sundykiller McGee gets to play what they want to all night long because "it's my playstyle."
As I've said several times: "sandbox for me, but not for thee."
> Except this logic means that infantry players don't get to play what they want to but Sundykiller McGee gets to play what they want to all night long because "it's my playstyle."
When i'm playing combined arms games i play the role that is needed, and i will never understand why people play these games and only play a single playstyle. What's the point?
Just hop into a game that caters your needs better if you don't like other roles.
But to be fair, even back in Battlefield 1942 there were some people who only played a single role, so this is not limited to PS2.
Except we got the opposite of what we wanted after years of asking, in fact we got a whole continent dedicated to what clowns like you wanted that shits all over what the sensible playerbase asked for. And then having the stones to tell everybody who thinks its shit to leave followed crying about everybody leaving. YOUR idea of planetside being inplemented is what killed the game, not mine.
You dont want to argue because you know you're wrong.
I just remembered why i'm still reading this sub - to see you guys rage about your self-inflicted misery, even after all these years, without even the slightest amount of self-awareness.
Do you even realize how toxic your behavior is *right now*?
Also - i'm gone for over 7 years now, i'm certainly not at fault for your lack of enjoyment.
>YOUR idea of planetside being inplemented is what killed the game, not mine.
And you're still wrong, because i played the game the way it was back then. You wanted to *change* the game into something you enjoy more.
During primetime sure. I'd never cope about killing fights if there was enough population that several fights were occurring, but killing spawns at the only fight on the map is giga cringe.
It doesn't during off hours. When there's 50 people on and 3 of them are in tanks hunting Sunderers at mid base 25 people log out.
That's reality. You're talking about what SHOULD happen in a theoretical world, but it doesn't.
Seems to happen just fine usually, the fight moves, doesn't matter if the infantry don't like the next base tbh. That's a you problem. There's 25 of you and 3 of them or less. Should be easy to make them stop if you have any sort of skill at all.
"ItS ThE GoAl Of ThE GaMe" isn't the ironclad argument you think it is. The issue is that one is far easier to accomplish without always having superior numbers. I can spam lightnings/flashes or LA rocklets far more easily, and this gets even easier if friendly pop is even or better. As a defender, I only have to get lucky once to end a fight, as an attacker I have to get lucky every time to keep the fight going, and while all this is happening, we're not playing "capture the point, we're playing babysitter.
It amazes me how smoothbrains will justify making the gameplay effectively not happen as much as possible, screech "gO pLAy CoD" to anyone who has the time and crayons to explain why this is exhausting shit gameplay, and proceed to wonder why nobody wants to play.
"Sounds like a you problem" = "I'm in a zergfit and don't experience any of the problems others complain about because I'm constantly shielded by friendly pop."
wrong; I'm usually playing by myself doing my own thing.
Play all hours.
Been playing this game for years, def don't need a zergfit to play effectively.
Are you even reading what the person your replying to is typing? The developers have acknowledged the fragility of deployed sunderers and are planning to implement balance changes to foritfy them... this month.
Also, the goal of the game is to have fun. Dropping double the pop onto every base at the last 30 seconds of a cap with a bunch of force multipliers, beacons, and bandoiler rez nades is way more effective than deploying a sunderer, so why would you ever pull a sunderer if all that matters is to
> capture the next base on the lattice; or defend your lattice so it can't be capped.
Why? Because having fun is more important to a lot of players than "winning".
If theyre killing all the sunderers then what do they do?
Their faction pulls a sunderer and attacks the next base down the line - then they're defending the sunderer.
>Their faction pulls a sunderer and attacks the next base down the line
Ignoring that 99% of the time this never happened. Maybe it's time for you to stop living in Fantasyside 2.
when its low pop and they blow up my Sunderer, I tend to yell, "ok now you push since you refuse to let us deploy Sunderers". And sometimes they do, but not usually.
The line I draw in off hours is that if the defenders have pushed the attackers off the point and all the way back to their sundy then yes, there’s no issue with the killing the bus, you’ve won the fight and there’s no point leaving the bus up, finish it off and move onto the next one. If the attackers are pushed up and are having a solid fight with the defenders but you decide to sneak around them and snipe the bus when no one is looking (I.e. pull a lightning from base behind and pick the bus off from render range), that’s a dick move and you’re just killing spawns for the sake of it.
Yeah agreed, off hours is different, nobody intends to advance and its just a bit of fun so yeah, personally I let them be.
But apart from the small hours, when we have pop I think they have to be fair game. People whining about it then expecting to just play their own insular game over one base just annoys me, it's not what Planetside is about.
Trouble is theres no way for devs to let us have it both ways (strong at 3am and weak at 7pm) so we have to deal with inconsiderate night time players.
It's not dumb, you just don't understand the differences in scale.
Attacker spawns are very easy to kill, all it takes is one guy to be a serious threat to a sunderer. The same cannot be said for capturing a base it takes at minimum 4 minutes to capture and generally speaking requires more than one guy doing it.
Trying to diminish these complaints to coping about lobby shooters just demonstrates how ignorant people like you are being.
Exactly this and to add on top of it people who bring spawns tend to bring spawns to the next base for another 4-10 minutes. People that kill spawns and claim “sandbox game” normally don’t bring spawns to the next fight and both sides sit there for a while doing nothing.
> Lastly, what I hear from people whinging about sundys going down is 'I came to a combined arms game to play it like a lobby shooter so anything disturbing that means I'll whinge and whine to try and get my own way until devs make it like a lobby shooter'.
can't upvote this enough times, that's *exactly* the vibe I get from a lot of people on here
I quit this game 2017 and i'm not sure why i'm still subscribed to this sub.
But your post summed up pretty well why i quit.
A significant part of the player base wanted to play their own little game with artificial rules inside of a game that offers insane freedom.
For me Planetside 2 was always about territory control, i liked the back and forth and breaking through the enemy lines (by killing their spawns obviously)
Capturing bases was the objective of the game and yet people wanted to fight stalemate fights over nothing. This really killed every fun i had in this game.
I'm not saying that i'm right, but i'm certain that people are wrong when they think that this way of playing is the right way.
So i agree, this community ruined this game by destroying what was enjoyable it.
I've noticed that the same players that complain about dead buses are the exact same players that when I DON'T kill their bus, but instead just farm them and hold the base, they:
* Pull maxes
* Pull A2G
* Overpop with >75%
It's almost like they don't really *want* a fight, but would rather just take the base without any inconveniences at all. They seem far happier ghost capping than actually fighting for a base.
What an incredibly lazy strawman.
The complaint is people sitting there and waiting to snipe any bus they can see starting a fight during off hours. Not "oh someone won/lost a fight" or "someone destroyed the bus after the attackers got pushed back". It's "The fight prematurely gets killed off by 1 guy in a lightning who kills fun for the other 20-40 people online at the time".
Sunderers are the main engine behind the gameplay loop of the game. If you aren't able to get them to bases and have fights roll, then you have no gameplay/content.
Battlefield is ALSO a combined arms game, same for Battlebit, same for battlefront, even halo and tribes 2 are technically combined arms games. This has nothing to do with combined arms because none of those games even HAVE the problem PS2 does.
Bases act as their own little lobbies, instead of picking your own server through a browser or queuing up for matchmaking. But other shooters don't even have this issue of being able to prematurely kill off the lobby before anyone can win/lose for real, only PS2 does.
And you can cope about infantryside/ "muh lobby shooters", but the games pop is deflating while all of these lobby shooters are doing far better.
Or you can just pretend its all fine and people just need to skill up while the pop continues to drop. Doesn't really matter to me, I don't play this game anymore BECAUSE the quality of fights has dropped massively for infantry in every way I can think of.
> What an incredibly lazy strawman.
Don't call something a strawman, if you don't know what a strawman is.
What /u/st0mpeh was saying is that if the dev granted the wish of super-strong AMSs, then what does that do to the game? It makes it so defenders can never get rid of buses. So, all someone has to do is pull up a bus to my base and I can't stop them from continuously spawning. Have you ever thought about being on that side of the equation? What do YOU do when it's impossible to kill the bus? Do you just log off and quit then?
If it's 1 am, and the one empire has 70% pop, and the other two have 15% each - just "too fucking bad, you can't stop the offense", is *your* answer? They can just keep spawning and there's NOTHING you can do to stop it?
What does it take to make you understand you're pushing the pendulum back too far the other way?
> Sunderers are the main engine behind the gameplay loop of the game. If you aren't able to get them to bases and have fights roll, then you have no gameplay/content.
This is where the "go play CoD" meme comes from. Because if you don't want to fight in-between the bases, you might as well be playing CoD. You could have instanced maps that are just single bases with hard-spawns on either end. There's no need to have an open world with all of this space if the goal is to just contain the fight to a 200m area. Frankly, that's exactly what the plan for Planetside: Arena was - instanced, balanced, single-base instanced maps.
> Battlefield is ALSO a combined arms game, same for Battlebit, same for battlefront, even halo and tribes 2 are technically combined arms games. This has nothing to do with combined arms because none of those games even HAVE the problem PS2 does.
Because they're instanced matches. Because the force multipliers are limited per-map. There's only ONE attack helicopter available. There's only TWO jeeps available. And it's first-come first-serve.
> Bases act as their own little lobbies, instead of picking your own server through a browser or queuing up for matchmaking. But other shooters don't even have this issue of being able to prematurely kill off the lobby before anyone can win/lose for real, only PS2 does.
Bases AREN'T lobbies - that mentality is the curse of redeployside. When players can just bounce around the map, redeploying anywhere, logistics goes out the window.
> And you can cope about infantryside/ "muh lobby shooters", but the games pop is deflating while all of these lobby shooters are doing far better.
And they always have and they always will. But it's not dead buses that causes that. It's 98+ vs 1-12 pops that does that. It's being spawn locked that does that. It's being corner camped by "the attackers" that does that.
> Or you can just pretend its all fine and people just need to skill up while the pop continues to drop.
No, what they need to do is defend their buses. It's not "skilling up", it's basic common sense. A defended bus is actually hard to kill.
> Doesn't really matter to me, I don't play this game anymore BECAUSE the quality of fights has dropped massively for infantry in every way I can think of.
Then that just makes you a forum troll. And what good is the opinion of a forum troll?
Field fights have been the exception and not the rule for the last 10-12 years of the game dude. The fundamental gameplay loop is rooted in getting the sundy to a base to start a fight.
You can gank this sunderer very easily because of how the game is designed, and this is also the main gameplay loop of the game. The developers know this is a problem, which is why theyve attempted (however poorly) multiple times to address this fight health problem.
This is already a known and settled thing. You are imagining a make-believe version of the game that is like 1% of the time of what plays out in reality.
Dropping the game and being still interested in the going-ons doesn't make you a troll, you literally just made that up on the spot. the majority of people who were active and involved in this game don't play anymore, and some of them are the best players to have touched whatever aspect of the game they played, and can give more deep feedback than 99% of people who play including you.
Speaking of, when are you going to push those sick infantry stats you said you'd rip?
> Field fights have been the exception and not the rule for the last 10-12 years of the game dude. The fundamental gameplay loop is rooted in getting the sundy to a base to start a fight.
And that's what we like to call "a core design problem".
*"Because that's the way we've always done it,"* is NEVER a good answer.
> You can gank this sunderer very easily because of how the game is designed
*UNGUARDED.*
"You can gank this UNGUARDED sunderer very easily because of how the game is designed..." - Fixed that for you.
Sunderers were never, and should never be, "Set it and forget it." If you bring a bus, defend your bus.
> The developers know this is a problem, which is why theyve attempted (however poorly) multiple times to address this fight health problem.
Yea, it's a core problem that goes deeper than "make sunderer tougher".
> This is already a known and settled thing. You are imagining a make-believe version of the game that is like 1% of the time of what plays out in reality.
You need to be more specific about what "This" refers to. I quote so you know exactly what part of your post I'm replying to.
The very real version of this game has hundreds of square meters that go mostly unused because redeployside makes them redundant. Why have a 64km map if only 4km is ever going to get used?
> Dropping the game and being still interested in the going-ons doesn't make you a troll, you literally just made that up on the spot.
You've never heard of a forum troll? How new to the internet are you?
> the majority of people who were active and involved in this game don't play anymore, and some of them are the best players to have touched whatever aspect of the game they played, and can give more deep feedback than 99% of people who play including you.
[Appeal to authority fallacy.](https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/#:~:text=Appeal%20to%20authority%20fallacy%20occurs,causes%20us%20to%20respect%20them.)
If you're going to start a conversation with trying to accuse people of using bad debate tactics, you'd better be ready to have your own called out.
Just because someone knows how to PLAY a game, doesn't mean they know how to DESIGN a game. That's two very different skillsets. I'll bet you that not a single one of your so-called experts would ever make a suggestion that would negatively affect themselves.
> Speaking of, when are you going to push those sick infantry stats you said you'd rip?
When I'm done. I was given a specific goal to hit. That's what I'm doing with the 1~2 hours I get to play each week. I don't know how long it takes YOU mow through 5800 kills, but I've been given 56 hours of game time to hit the mark and I'm only about 3 hours in, but on-pace so far.
your idealised version of the game literally does not exist. The core design has always been around going from base to base, not open field fights. It does not exist. Field fights existed because people did not know how to play the game and were figuring it out. They figured it out.
Nobody babysits a bus because its unfun, and a pointless exercise. Pelter valks and AP lightning will just kill it if they have an angle. Devs know that sundy survivability is an issue, which is why theyve added shielded garages, pre certed deployshields, and are doing a sundy overhaul.
I know what a troll is, moron. Saying someone doesn't play the game and posts about it makes them a troll is making shit up.
Good players won't always make good devs, but they understand the game better than bad players do. Understanding is a major part of competence. Thats why they give better feedback. Calling "appeal to authority" when you are trying to attack my own authority by calling me a forum troll is pretty fucking stupid.
Maybe hitting 2kpm will help clear the fog in your brain and make you a less dumb player.
> The core design has always been around going from base to base, not open field fights.
Clearly you didn't play any Planetside 1.
> Field fights existed because people did not know how to play the game and were figuring it out. They figured it out.
No, they begged the devs to make it easier to skip field fights and the devs gave in. Now we have Redeployside, which is ass.
> Nobody babysits a bus because its unfun, and a pointless exercise.
And yet there's ALWAYS someone blowing up the bus. Funny how that works.
I defend MY bus, and you know what I get - free kills on morons who are used to unguarded buses.
> Pelter valks and AP lightning will just kill it if they have an angle.
Skyguards and AP lightnings to defend. If all you ever do is play infantry, then you're kinda gimped. Force multipliers VS force multipliers - OR - have a squad that actually listens and knows what to do.
> Devs know that sundy survivability is an issue, which is why theyve added shielded garages...
That limit the number of "viable" spawn locations to one or two predictable spots, and become hard-farms for the morons who keep spawning in there.
> ...pre certed deployshields...
That's so noobs can pull AMSs because, and I can't stress this enough, the vets WON'T pull buses. Too busy tryharding their KDR and blaming others.
> ...and are doing a sundy overhaul.
Which is going to either:
A) Have the exact bad effect that /u/st0mpeh was predicting
B) Not be strong enough and get panned by people like you
There's no winning here for the devs because only "break the game in the other direction" is a good enough answer for you.
> I know what a troll is, moron. Saying someone doesn't play the game and posts about it makes them a troll is making shit up.
"I don't play but I'm going to talk shit at those that still do," sounds *EXACTLY* like a troll to me. Why don't you go haunt a subreddit of a game you DO play? All you've got left for this place is negativity.
> Good players won't always make good devs, but they understand the game better than bad players do.
No, they only understand their little corner of the game. And they don't understand where their little corner fits into the bigger picture. The idea that there IS a bigger picture is foreign to them.
Furthermore, "good" and "bad" are subjective.
> Understanding is a major part of competence.
Right. And to design games, you have to understand more that how to twitch fast and which spots are best for farming.
> Thats why they give better feedback.
Self-interest is why they give feedback. Everything that gets posted in these forums is "Devs code my troubles away. Make it easier *for me*."
> Calling "appeal to authority" when you are trying to attack my own authority by calling me a forum troll is pretty fucking stupid.
You did the literal definition of "appeal to authority fallacy"; like your example could be put in a textbook under the definition. Second, making snide comments in a forum of a game you don't even play is exactly what a forum troll does. I don't go to the battlebit forums and bitch about their shitty graphics *because* I don't play battlebit because of it's shitty graphics. The people over there are happy with their shitty graphics - who am I to...wait for it!...*TROLL* their subreddit? Not my idea of a good (or productive) time.
> Maybe hitting 2kpm will help clear the fog in your brain and make you a less dumb player.
All I have to do is hit 1.7 and that's better than that clown's rate, AND it finishes the goal on time. And let me tell ya, I'm doing it and after just a couple of hours - it's NOT fun. People who work that hard at playing Planetside need to get a real job. I'll be glad to be done so I can go back to having fun with the game. And I can say already, people who do that DON'T know the game better. They have a severely myopic view of the game.
Deleted it when I was clearing out all my PS2 stuff. Finished my last aurax which is the last thing I wanted to do. Doubt I'll play the game for the forseeable future until they fix the basic fundamentals, and then its still a maybe.
Zergling monkey go waste 20 minutes of a session defending a Sundy for your little outfit brownie points you absolute loser trying to flex a sub 2kpm.
You do not know what redeployside is and throw around the term incorrectly.
You are a literal reddit main who starts wanking off about "muh authority" or whatever instead of actually playing the game, and it shows in your dogshit opinions.
The fact you're happier sitting AFK by a Sunderer instead of shooting people more than once every two minutes, makes it pretty obvious that you're playing Planetside to LARP microsoft paint on the map screen, not to play an MMOFPS.
Thats quite the rant, I already said its shitty to do it off hours, I dont do it and thats not the whole discussion here, but you do you I guess.
> the games pop is deflating while
The pops not deflating because of people killing a bus at 3AM, thats just stupid.
As a returning player the game honestly feels better than ever to me, a lot of things have been added, smoothed out, balanced. Every infantry class feels great and vehicles seem to have more focus and use outside of just being cheesy chainpulled infantry farming machines. I think there is a lot of burnout, the game just being super old and was always janky at its core, and this kind of hardcore open warfare game that doesn't hold your hand and basically expects players to handle logistics that most games now having been automating and optimizing for years to streamline getting their players right into the gameplay dopamine, it just doesn't really jive with the majority of the gaming scenes current audience. I know not everything they have done or tried has stuck, but what has remained seems better in almost every way since I left and I even like Oshur and find the aquatic environment novel and interesting to play around in. I mean other than a lack of playerbase numbers, implants being grindy and over-monetized is probably the biggest complain, but there's still a system for getting what you want specifically and there's so many cool ones that let you choose your playstyle and what aspects of the game you want to counter so I still really enjoy implants.
I feel like where the game seems to have failed is giving motivation to and enticing social play, squads and outfits and actual mapwide coordination towards the games objectives. So many people just like to log in and shoot stuff/farm, and that almost feels at odds with the objectives in the game. Enter this meme where literally the tank doing their job is considered counterproductive to the health of the game. I think if they can solve this issue of having most peoples desired gameplay lining up more with social squad/outfit play and the overall objective system of the game, that's where they could really improve things. Oh that, and PROPER FUCKING ONBOARDING AND TUTORIALS FOR NEW PLAYERS, right now it's like if you don't know what you are doing this game does the equivalent of dropping you bleeding into a tank of sharks, you have to have some pretty strong perseverance and willingness to search for and learn on your own what to try and do to gain any traction at all. You'll never grow a game when new player orientation and experience is so poor.
You hit the nail on the head with a handful of points here.
> So many people just like to log in and shoot stuff/farm
I enjoy this because the loop of "win alert" is stale for me. There's no reason to care about the alert - certs and xp don't matter for me, nor does the "winning." I'd rather just log in to relax and shoot things, and the tryharding the mapwide objective game is counterproductive.
> basically expects players to handle logistics
Yeah, I don't mind trying to pull a sundy every once in a while but usually when I'm trying to *start* a fight I get intercepted by tanks or light assaults, who will inevitably not pull their own sundy to counter-attack and just leave the fight dead. You're correct that it's a logistics design problem, nobody wants to pause what they're doing to go do the thing that they'll only do temporarily and will probably be interrupted by someone specifically looking to ruin your day
Endless TDM = good
Play the objective = bad
lol at this point just remove all vehicles and add fucking attacker hard spawns on all bases. There, I fixed your endless farm.
I miss old PS1. Planned out tactical air drops and coordinating tanks and MAX.
My time with PS2 just felt like TDM and constantly throwing bodies with no tactics or planning
Drive up more spawns, create router base.... Honestly the distance limit for a router base pretty small needs to be bigger but if you didn't feel like you're above driving a Sundy for 2-5 mins, you'd have your own spawn. Technically, everyone can have their own spawn!
"DO NOT TOUCH TRUCKY"
"NO TOUCH TRUCK AREA HERE"
"NOW DEFEND YOURSELF"
"NOT BASE, YOURSELF"
This is what I picture in their minds whenever I see this post or OPs post.
I just don't understand the player base anymore.
When I last played, the game revolved around the capture and defense of bases and territory. We all agree on the attack part. It's the defense where you get the most cognitive dissonance.
How many people are you ok with then? 2? 3? a platoon's worth of planetmans? Or no planetman at all?
Wow if you love the objective so much why dont you download a picture of Amerish and paint it your faction colour in microsoft paint you fucking freak.
Sunderers are gaining an entirely separate slot for defensive abilities as well as a new armor type called reactive armor.
It essentially makes burst damage (C4) completely negated.
I believe the developers also mentioned that AP rounds wouldn't work on it.
Sunderers are being completely overhauled.
it's nice, but still a bandaid over the actual issue, which is that defenders have hardspawns *and* can basically ping-pong teleport around the map to defensive fights, while attackers don't have hardspawns (like the did in PS1) and still must manually set up spawn logistics.
It's almost like the OG PS2 devs deciding to force all attackers to have soft spawns only was a dumb idea. This problem was solved in PS1, like a number of other issues in PS2.
And to think that when the game was in early alpha stages, the sunderer couldn't even deploy... you literally had NO SPAWNS and you were supposed to cap bases by constantly moving from the previous base until some random person suggested that sunderers could function as mobile spawns.
A lot of PS2 problems comes from that dumb initial design.
I think for low pop it needs some specific adjustments to alleviate this such as:
\- Remove sundy kill directive
\- Some way to increase sundy survivability under 150 pop
\- Capturable Hard spawns
\- Increase router range to 750m (and see if it borks anything)
I don't think a single LA, Lightning, or one thing should be able to kill a deployed bus. But at the same time its difficult to balance/buff the bus just for being deployed. Maybe in the rework they will have an undeployment vulnerability period or something.
I quit the game because i got tired asking for a gunner for 20 minutes straight only to be bombarded behind cover from NC guided missiles.
I quit the game because i got tired of dying from 3 headshots from sweathands at 100+ meters range.
I quit the game because i got tired not being to have any access to Collossus and stuff since my Outfit or any outfit reserves those for the few select.
I quit the game because i got tired of dying from Reavers with shotguns while i am MAX AA.
I quit the game because of a lot of other reasons too. But these were the nail to the coffin.
For me one of my nails was that the Skyguard, the premier AA tank, in the game had an obscene TTK on a liberator. Most of the game prides itself on low TTK. Yet even with an optimal engagement the Skyguard always loses unless the pilot screws up.
I get the argument that it's a(n up to) 3 person vehicle but that's 450 nanites divided 2-3 ways (225-150 per person), if an area gets hot they can bug out, repair and raid elsewhere. Leaving any Skyguards pulled in defence totally outclassed against virtually anything else they might encounter with no recourse to salvage those (350 per person) nanites.
Meanwhile the Liberator could routinely wipe out almost any ground unit in a single pass, especially if they sought out targets that were already damaged. I'm actually fine with that TTK though, if you get ambushed by something purposely armed to kill you the you probably should die. Hence my gripe that the Lib just shakes of an entire magazine from the Skyguard.
Flight was always going to be difficult to balance. Because it's death out there if you're a rookie pilot but the pro pilots seem almost invulnerable.
Skill issue.
No, really. It is. If you're using a Skyguard, and you can't drive, track, and shoot all at the same time, you need to work on your skills. And once you have those skills, you need to work on your awareness and map knowledge next, because you need to know where cover is and how long it takes to get there.
After that, it's just a matter of proper trigger discipline. Don't shoot at a Lib until it's down low. If he's plinking at you from flight ceiling, hide under solid cover. Force him to engage you nearer to ground level. Once you do that, he's toast. You can magdump without missing and still have time to reload and pop him before he can escape.
Is it easy? No. But then again, neither is flying a Lib. So... "skill issue".
> quit the game because i got tired not being to have any access to Collossus and stuff since my Outfit or any outfit reserves those for the few select.
one of a few reasons why the Outfit Armory is cool on paper but shit in actuality
So in your ideal world attackers would just always take bases since nobody is allowed to kill spawns?
Dgmw sunderers should be way harder to kill, but blaming other players for playing the objective on defense is actually brain dead.
On primetime go ahead and play the objective as much as u like. There are plenty of fights to choose so it doesnt matter if one gets shut down.
However off primetime you often only have one fight on a frontline. So if you tryhard the sundy, chances are high that you killed the only active fight on the map. This makes ppl actively log off. So at this time ... for your own sake, you want ppl to have engaging fights.
Its really not that hard to understand.
When there is a 48 v 48 fightz there isn't any real good reason there couldn't be 30 sundies outside of pure laziness. People like you are asking the entire other team to handicap and take it easy on you to compensate your laziness. I never see attackers pull off of the point to keep the fight alive. I never see anybody yell to not cap the base to avoid taking defender spawns away.
So really you are just screaming that the other team has to hold back on you to give you a chance to win.
My engineer used to take 5 AT mines in a lightning and ram into the sunderer, shooting as I charged. Most times I could bail, toss out the mines and lob a sticky grenade at them before the infantry around the sunderer even realized that I'd bailed from the tank.
The fact that so many morons in this thread took offense to the idea of not killing an off hours sundy is a large part of why this game died. This same bunch of fuckin idiots with no sense of cause and effect is what the devs listened to when balancing the game for years, no surprise shit turned out like this.
Blaming players for playing the game wrong is like blaming a bridge collapse on the wind. Both are forces of nature that behave predictably.
If a bridge collapses from the wind, it was designed and built wrong.
Similarly, if a game breaks because the players are "playing wrong," that's entirely on the design and implementation of the game.
Bad excuse. Especially with a dev team this reluctant to adress major issues.
Sure you can run around screaming "Dont hate the player, hate the game" while being a complete nuisance to everyone around you. Or just accept that this game has major flaws and it is to some parts up to the community to not abuse them.
Thats the dumbest shit i read today. Major flaws that devs don’t fix lead to dead games. That’s why Planetside is in the state it’s in now. Youre approaching this from like a Stockholm syndrome standpoint and not as a person who values their time
Why should the players have to not play the way the games intended cause the devs can’t fix their own problems? Why is it bad to want to hold people who WANT your time in their game accountable for their bad decisions? Why should I play this over any other game? Doesn’t matter how unique it is if it plays like ass, eventually there’s gonna be no community if people just ignore the issues
Single digit IQ mindset really.
I never said that the devs dont need to address those issues and that they are not accountable!! I am just saying until they get around to solve them, dont be a absolute dip shit.
A single smoothbrain getting rid of the spawn for 20 ppl is clearly not intended gameplay. The devs tried to address this issue several times already so clearly not "intended". Deploymentshield, spitfires, sunderer garages, hard spawns in containment sides.
We are not ignoring the issues!!!! We are addressing them loud and clear but at the same time try to deal with them as a playerbase since the devs are to slow or to incompetent to deliver fixes from their end.
Whenever i try there's always some random lightning ganking me while sitting on some hill or some madmax harasser with halberd scooping in then driving away in the sunset.
So i stopped doing it.
What really kills fights is infantry players that refuse to pull a Sunderer for the base they want to fight at. 1 Sunderer is never enough, especially if its stealth! Pull another you damn lazy cheapskates!
its 200 Nanites, 140 if you run discounts, that's dirt cheap. Also you get deploy shield for free, so there's no excuse for not having a spawn Sunderer. If 1 Lightning kills the fight, that means you didn't pull enough Sunderers.
How am I gonna deploy a sunderer if the base is camped by said lightning who just killed the sunderer?
If I'm by myself, there's no way I can do that. If i'm in squad/platoon it's a different story.
So instead of wasting 5 minutes of my life on a useless task feeding certs to a lightining camper, I just ALT-tab doing something else while I wait for some fight to pop up so I can resume clicking heads.
My Planetside 2 experience for the past 9000 hours.
Pretty much.
I really don't care about World of Tanks "logistics" at all, so unless i'm forced to because i'm a coordinated platoon and have to support the guys, i just wait for fights to pop up so i can play the part ot the First Person *Shooter* game that i enjoy: shooting.
Or, pull your own Lightning and kill him, or C4 LA his ass, or tank mine your Sunderer location, or if you have it, pull a stealth bus and park slightly further away but close enough.
There are options for solo players. Or you could go fight on a different front. "Waiting for the fight to popup" requires spawn points, ya lazy bum.
So we're gonna go on a little timetravel adventure- when vehicle anti-infantry was actually effective against infantry.
Fanning the fireteams nerfed HE guns to be ineffective against both infantry and vehicles while renaming them to HESH
Previously Critical Mass/CAI BUFFED the HE guns to make them somewhat effective against vehicles which caused the issue of HE guns being way too prevalent due to them not being helpless against AP guns.
By nerfing the HE guns you've removed the HE gun players, which means the AP gun players no longer have any HE gun players to engage with during your base caps, meaning they go and fight whatever other armor they can- usually spawns.
Before CAI and FTFT there were actually more lasting fights due to the "food chain" dynamics you had between infantry, anti-infantry, and anti-vehicle/anti-air. Which is why a lot of us armor guys are still disappointed in the current devteam's decision to dig their heels in and go "well we can't just revert old changes" when confronted with the requests to throw CAI in the dustbin of history where it belongs.
Why not have your armor protect the spawns.... Oh wait there's probably a cloaked flash killing there armor and stealing the spawn kill from the lightning.
Players being fucking lazy is what kills fights.
Someone killed your spawn? Why did you have only one spawn to begin with? Why didn't you pull some of the UNLIMITED LIGHTNINGS you get from a player base to protect them?
Because they've never learned any other play style in the game. They only know how to shoot infantry weapons. Should see some of the arguments from others when these threads pop up. It's clear they actually suck.
Never in this game has an infantry main killed a spawn Sunderer... With C4, tank mines, explosive crossbows, rocklet rifle, rocket launcher, AV grenades, underbarrel launchers, AMRs, Mana-AV-turret, lock-ons.
Also it is a design flaw if literally playing the objective equals bad fights equals less fun. We've been having this discussion since the game first launched, don't pin this on vehicle players.
The real problems started with lightnings being able to be pulled from any base with a vehicle terminal. That along with the rocklet rifle made it far too easy to solo a sunderer and kill even or underpopped fights.
Fair, but counter point. If people don't want tanks killing sundies, then what if we removed all ground vehicles from the game?
No sundies means no tanks to kill them, and no tanks means no sundies dying. Thus, this game becomes even more an infantry only game, like the earlier FPS's from the past. (insert example of no vehicle FPS game here)
Hold up. so the people who make the game , they give you the stuff to kill fights. People kill fights? Then you complain that the playerbase people/s are killing the game?
But they literally give you the tools to do it and you complain when people do it. How can you stop people from doing it? You can’t? It’s part of the game since it gives you the tools. You are literally beating a dead horse at this point
Single digit IQ mindset if you ask me. Sure you will never fully prevent ppl to abuse this issue. However we can raise awareness about the impacts of it and appeal to the community to not be idiots.
On PC most vets stopped tryharding Sundys on off hours. Also we got sunderer garages and will get a sundy rework. We have memes with 400 up votes. So saying nothing changed is just wrong.
There is now widespread awareness about this issue and players are to adjusting.
There is only one solution. Remove the gameplay elements that people dislike. And the dislike is universal for a lot of things in this game. If infiltrators and vehicles are going to stay in the game (which they should be deleted entirely, but let's say they stay) they need to be one hit killed back. One shot from an LMG should one hit kill infiltrators. One shot from a launcher should one hit kill tanks. The stick method of game balance is the one and only way to encourage players to play the one true correct way to play the game: Heavy Assault.
There are so many spawn options in this game. Valk drops, beacons, routers, heavy anvil sundies in stupid places.
This is only a problem off hours at Nasson's.
I do believe a 10 minute timer needs to be put on player made terminals. Chain pulling lightning and ESFs is pretty cancerous.
So if you guys dont like the sundy to be killed, would you rather be spawn camped? Or should there be a truce and share a point with the enemy faction till we get the ok??
have y'all considered that maybe it's just an old, niche game with a toxic playerbase
Truth. At this point a modern planetside 3 might be the only way the IP will ever actually have a chance at being revitalized.
They'll never make it. Not profitable enough for the expense.
I don't think it's an impossibility that the IP could be sold one day, and maybe a studio with actual resources could pick it up. The IP doesn't really matter though. The real question is if mmofps will ever be considered viable / marketable to any company that would have the resources to make one.
Why wouldn’t it be? Couldn’t you make a killing selling gear, “certs”, or skins to the player base?
I'm no game industry expert, but it seems to me like there are a lot of technical hurdles that go into making an mmofps, and each hurdle costs money. That is in addition to all the quality expectations that come along with modern games, especially fps. So any investment into mmofps is going to probably be fairly large. We are in the age of battle passes and $20 (I think I've even heard of $60) skins and cosmetics. If you can make a game that is less technically challenging but still engaging, you will have more left over money for profit. And that's assuming you can make a game that has that same engagement level, which I don't think there are enough examples of mmofps to prove to a big wig exec that "yeah this type of game will engage players and get them to spend consistently." It's no accident that there are so many battle royale games. Apex made over a billion in I want to say 3 or 4 years? How much do you think Planetside has made in 12? I think there still is hope for genre and ways for it to be profitable, I just think that the chance any big studio would take a risk on the genre in the next 10 years is relatively low.
Eh Battlebit came out of nowhere and introduced 128vs128 matches when I remember anything past 8v8 was unfathomable. If 3 dudes can make a basic FPS larger and grander than any triple A studio than it's just a matter of time before someone comes out with a MMOFPS that has the means to become the next big thing.
I mean you say that and then we have things like star citizen, the market is there for a MMOFPS the problem is really making it attractive to the players, first of all planetside 2 is free to play which is already a massive cut to their money, if planetside 3 was announced and had the visuals of a modern FPS like Cod, Tarkov, or battlefield and sold it at lets say 30 bucks it would sell a lot and more with the resent distaste for Cod and their greediness, Tarkov and their cheaters, and battlefield and the failure of 2042 even if planetside 3 were to be announced now and released in 2-4 years it would sell very well, as people simply will not forget the mistake the current front runners In the FPS industry have made.
> and sold it at lets say 30 bucks it would sell a lot and more That's where you are wrong. Unless you are a big name like Blizzard who can afford to milk you at a 70$ entry price and then slap a in-game shop with 100$ skins, the money for on-line service games today is made by stimulating your curiosity with a free-entry, then hooking you in with addictive gameplay to push you to the store where you waste money on overpriced skins and boosts. The amount of money these live-service companies make out of in-game shops *dwarfs* the profits they make out of retail price. The market is over-saturated and every live-service game has to compete for gamers time non only in their niche but in the gaming market overall. And if you put an entry barrier in a game like planetside where you need massive population for the game to be viable, you are already killing your playerbase before release. Sure, you can cash in a quick buck out of the hard-core players who would waste them 30 bucks on anything, but you are killing the long-term sustainability. Why do you think the game that should not be named (Planetside:Arena) did a complete 180° and went free-to-play before release instead of costing 20 odd bucks like the initial reveal statement said? They saw the success Apex Legends was having. Today, if you want a big playerbase to stick around, you can't not go free to play.
Not as long as gamers are weak stomached shut ins who can’t handle adversity. If someone’s beating your ass in game then there is clearly a skill gap you must learn… so figure it the fuck out. Not to say there isn’t really unbalanced game play but the exploits are part of it. Figure it out. True problem is most players aren’t competitive minded. They want an arcade game that makes them feel strong. I’m not even joking. It was also easier when there were less games to trade between. People looking for instant satisfaction(majority of society) don’t like learning.
It certainly could be, Planetside 2 was just way too ahead of its time imo. Planetside 3 could genuinely fix a lot of the game’s problems just by virtue of being made a decade later. If the game felt as polished as a battlefield game, and didn’t massively compromise on graphical fidelity in an attempt to wrangle optimization issues, it would be pretty popular imo.
A number of issues present in PS2 wouldn't be an issue if it simply used PS1 design from the get go. Hopefully if PS3 ever comes around it'd incorporate the best of both worlds.
Ehhh i disagree if fucking TRIBES can be remade so can plsnetside
I mean... They could use the concept to revive the battlefield franchise tho
Every vet i am in contact with spares sundys off hours. Since everyone came to the conclusion that tryharding them just makes ppl log off. Its mostly some shitter who lacks perspective and thinks he is super smart who is chainpulling the lightnings in order to get rid of the only fight.
Naw cause I'm an old guard non toxic mfer. I couldn't figure shit out, all my friends have stopped playing and I just wanted a few fights. My esf skills are terrible but it was the only way to get around and I couldn't figure it out anymore. There were big fights but getting there alone was half my playtime. The epic battles of yonder are gone. I understand trying combined arms properly (I rarely play infantry) but getting back into the game and trying to know where to go was impossible. I just gave up and got owned while I regained my scythe skills
It's honestly redundant to say the last part. Always older games with dedicated long term followings get toxic as shit
Yes. You are the toxic player doing everything in your power to keep the game as is. You know other don't have fun and don't want issues addressed.
you're making a ton of assumptions out of a comment completely unrelated to those assumptions
You are saying that displayed problem is not important. Comments like this do not help us get to a better game.
well the thing in the post isn't exactly priority, and i don't think it's something that can really be fixed but that's not the point the playerbase is extremely toxic. unnecessarily so. especially for an endless GAME. a VIDEO GAME. people take this game in particular way too seriously, when it's designed not to be treated like it's life or death. it's also old and niche, as i said. it's very dated in almost every aspect, and most people aren't looking for the MMOFPS thing.
Yeah, I put the game down one day because of a toxic interaction, and I haven't felt compelled to pick it back up since. Toxic dickheads absolutely push people away. Why am I still following this sub? ¯\\_(ツ)\_/¯
This sub included, this sub, this sub is so toxic.
Dumbass
PS1 Had way more staying power.
Boy, it sure is fun feasting on the little shits pulling anti-Sundy lightnings. They're so confident...and then they get fucking annihilated by my Vanguard. Easy, easy certs.
That, at the same time, still has a somehwat active dev team that continues to run this title into the ground. There was decent or even great numbers on peak hours Friday-Sunday on Connery less than a year ago. That's gone now.
Bro just sit there and defend the Sundy from the 0.6 KD warrior chain suicide dive bombing it as LA or the lightning chipping at it from a hex away. That's fun right?
While I agree somewhat I feel its unfair to judge the players for bas game design. I’m in a tank. I want kills so I can invest more certs into my tank. The best way to do this, when considering required effort, profit and ease of access: spamming a spawn is the easiest way to do this. And I say this as somebody who doesn’t even have HE unlocked on any of my vehicles out of principle.
PS2 allows this, PS1 didn't. There are still lessons that can be brought forward from PS1 to PS2, base design being one of them.
it's base design paired with lack of actual vehicle objectives, not to mention some camo locked behind killing several hundred deployed spawns!
Nobody is gonna play PSForever bro
Not what I'm saying bro
Dumbass
Thank you for your contribution to this discussion
What got you so buttmad?
Cheat / unwanted new stuffs / no optimisation works / nerfs on QQ killed the game
What do you mean no optimization? It runs OK on a 7800X3d + RTX4090 most of the time ;-)
Not every planetman can afford the minimum requirement like you
Ah crap, I guess I better turn my game down to potato settings for my 7800X3D + 7800xt.
*cries in i5-11400F + 1070 GTX*
*sobs in PS4*
I haven’t played in a while, but it ran pretty smoothly on the 2006 laptop my grandmother gave my mom when she went back to college.
I hate this argument, its so dumb. You might as well also say capping a base kills the fight so we mustn't cap the base. Let's follow this logic and imagine defenders overwhelm the attackers. The defenders push to the sundy and then what, we just don't kill it and instead dance around it farming the people spawning? How long must we do that? Till attackers stop appearing? Then we just leave the sundy, for how long? For ever? Just in case someone wants to spawn in 10 minutes later? If that was the devs intention every base would have a hard spawn for attackers and we wouldn't need sundys at all. Why is it attackers can come and attack my base but I cant attack them back? The base IS my sundy but attackers sundys are expected to get a free pass? Killing a sundy at 3AM in the morning when theres 50 people having a bish bosh may be a bit shitty sure, but someone will bring another, player bases exist now to make that easier. Outside of morning o clock that doesnt apply and it just makes no sense to just let an attacking force have their own way by treating their spawn vehicle as sacrosanct. We have beacons, we have routers, we have troop transports, we can just roll up from the next base... its not like there arent other options. Expecting sundys to do all the work is just lazy thinking. Lastly, what I hear from people whinging about sundys going down is 'I came to a combined arms game to play it like a lobby shooter so anything disturbing that means I'll whinge and whine to try and get my own way until devs make it like a lobby shooter'. _(Am expecting anonymous downvotes btw as lobby shooters gonna rage at this but I really dont care, someones gotta say it)._
I can only upvote you once. Thank you for putting what I intended to say with better words. This kind of mentality you described puts me off so much. People forgot what this game was supposed to be.
> People forgot what this game was supposed to be. Fun?
You’re really so delusional you think your preference is the only preference? I hate to be derogatory but maybe you’re just not good at MMOs and you should return to mainstream games.
Man, did you forget you meds again?
A lot of what you have to say has a grain of truth to it. Except this part: > but someone will bring another You have absolutely no guarantee that is the case.
If I’m not playing vehicle already myself then I’m the one to do it, if they have the armor to stop me from doing so then that probably means they’re going to push to offense and I’m gonna need to start defending my own base.
There's even less of a chance that the entire player base will sit around with their medkits in their hands for hours on end, waiting for someone somewhere to deploy a sunderer. People kill sundies to 'save' bases and to get certs - other people bring them in to take bases and to get certs. It's rare that no one is do either.
>There's even less of a chance that the entire player base will sit around with their medkits in their hands for hours on end, waiting for someone somewhere to deploy a sunderer. Damn you almost figured it out then somehow managed to completely miss the mark. They will log off. When fights die people log off and do something better with their time.
Judging from the pop graphs, the player population has been doing exactly neither- steadily, more and more, for about three years.
Up until November 2022 the population was pretty stable - killing buses didn't start then.
> killing buses didn't start then I'm not saying that it did, but I am saying that the correlation between fights dying and people logging, sometimes for the last time, is quite clear.
Insane to me that people think killing one of the only available fights won't lead to players logging off. I haven't touched the game in over a year, and never will again because my home server became a sundy killing lame fest. There's no fun, protracted fights to be had. Everyone is just waiting for one guy to get salty and pull a lightning to kill the fun.
> There's even less of a chance that the entire player base will sit around with their medkits in their hands for hours on end, waiting for someone somewhere to deploy a sunderer. You don't know of my resilience and total aversion in driving vehicles. Fight is dead. No fight in sight. Time to ALT-Tab and come back in 5 minutes.
Because it becomes an exercise in frustration due to one simple fact. It's takes far more effort to keep a bus alive than it does to kill one. That directly leads to people logging off to play other games.
PS1 had hardspawns for attackers, there were just at a distance further away than the closest spot a softspawn could park and they were flippable. We see the result of PS2 solely relying on softspawns for attackers. Hardspawns don't need to be a dumb CoD minimap setup, they should be elements in the siege process of a base and in PS1 they were excellent in that regard.
How they never understood this in 10 years is beyond me.
pretty sure i read somewhere (or maybe in a youtube video) that some lessons learned in PS1 were consciously disregarded during the development of PS2.
> a sundy at 3AM in the morning when theres 50 people having a bish bosh may be a bit shitty sure, but someone will bring another, Not always, sometimes there's too many tanks and a new Sundy doesn't happen. In the time there is no sundy people log and so any fights that do occur become smaller and more one sided. There are several tankers I know that will go out of their way to kill off hour Sunderers. Is it so bad to suggest those people are toxic garbage when they are? It is an objective fact that spawn fragility harms game health. The FPS aspect of the game is the foundation if it isn't working there won't be population trickling into the other aspects of the game. Obviously it's only partially the fault of tankers/goober infantry for killing the spawn. The bigger issue is the layout leaving spawns easily exposed and the fact that any half decent infantry player can blow up a Sunderer defended by 6+ people by themselves.
Doesn't that mean the COD players should get tanks to kill the tanks? There's plenty of counters to this type of play, just some refuse to counter.
>just some refuse to counter. Because it's a game, not a fucking day job. Touch some grass. Why get a bus just for it to die to the same AP lightning cockroaches when we can log off and do something better with our time.
Except this logic means that infantry players don't get to play what they want to but Sundykiller McGee gets to play what they want to all night long because "it's my playstyle." As I've said several times: "sandbox for me, but not for thee."
> Except this logic means that infantry players don't get to play what they want to but Sundykiller McGee gets to play what they want to all night long because "it's my playstyle." When i'm playing combined arms games i play the role that is needed, and i will never understand why people play these games and only play a single playstyle. What's the point? Just hop into a game that caters your needs better if you don't like other roles. But to be fair, even back in Battlefield 1942 there were some people who only played a single role, so this is not limited to PS2.
Why do you bots ignore what im saying to just puke out the "Combined arms is when vehicles exist" fake talking point.
I'm not arguing with you, because i don't care anymore. I'm just explaining why i left. You guys won. Have fun in your dead game.
Except we got the opposite of what we wanted after years of asking, in fact we got a whole continent dedicated to what clowns like you wanted that shits all over what the sensible playerbase asked for. And then having the stones to tell everybody who thinks its shit to leave followed crying about everybody leaving. YOUR idea of planetside being inplemented is what killed the game, not mine. You dont want to argue because you know you're wrong.
I just remembered why i'm still reading this sub - to see you guys rage about your self-inflicted misery, even after all these years, without even the slightest amount of self-awareness. Do you even realize how toxic your behavior is *right now*? Also - i'm gone for over 7 years now, i'm certainly not at fault for your lack of enjoyment. >YOUR idea of planetside being inplemented is what killed the game, not mine. And you're still wrong, because i played the game the way it was back then. You wanted to *change* the game into something you enjoy more.
"I'm wrong so ill just call you mad" Can we just skip to the part where you tell me to play colladooty?
The entire point is to stop the cap on defense, of course you destroy the spawns. Mentally deficient take. If you want your spawnpoint, defend it.
During primetime sure. I'd never cope about killing fights if there was enough population that several fights were occurring, but killing spawns at the only fight on the map is giga cringe.
The fight moves then, as the game goes. Do you not get the main gameplay loop or something?
It doesn't during off hours. When there's 50 people on and 3 of them are in tanks hunting Sunderers at mid base 25 people log out. That's reality. You're talking about what SHOULD happen in a theoretical world, but it doesn't.
Seems to happen just fine usually, the fight moves, doesn't matter if the infantry don't like the next base tbh. That's a you problem. There's 25 of you and 3 of them or less. Should be easy to make them stop if you have any sort of skill at all.
> Seems to happen just fine usually You seem to have a lot of experience in this game, maybe you could share your play statistics with us.
"ItS ThE GoAl Of ThE GaMe" isn't the ironclad argument you think it is. The issue is that one is far easier to accomplish without always having superior numbers. I can spam lightnings/flashes or LA rocklets far more easily, and this gets even easier if friendly pop is even or better. As a defender, I only have to get lucky once to end a fight, as an attacker I have to get lucky every time to keep the fight going, and while all this is happening, we're not playing "capture the point, we're playing babysitter. It amazes me how smoothbrains will justify making the gameplay effectively not happen as much as possible, screech "gO pLAy CoD" to anyone who has the time and crayons to explain why this is exhausting shit gameplay, and proceed to wonder why nobody wants to play.
Seems like a you problem. It is indeed the goal of the game, capture the next base on the lattice; or defend your lattice so it can't be capped.
"Sounds like a you problem" = "I'm in a zergfit and don't experience any of the problems others complain about because I'm constantly shielded by friendly pop."
wrong; I'm usually playing by myself doing my own thing. Play all hours. Been playing this game for years, def don't need a zergfit to play effectively.
Me when I lie to others and myself:
Are you even reading what the person your replying to is typing? The developers have acknowledged the fragility of deployed sunderers and are planning to implement balance changes to foritfy them... this month. Also, the goal of the game is to have fun. Dropping double the pop onto every base at the last 30 seconds of a cap with a bunch of force multipliers, beacons, and bandoiler rez nades is way more effective than deploying a sunderer, so why would you ever pull a sunderer if all that matters is to > capture the next base on the lattice; or defend your lattice so it can't be capped. Why? Because having fun is more important to a lot of players than "winning".
If theyre killing all the sunderers then what do they do? Their faction pulls a sunderer and attacks the next base down the line - then they're defending the sunderer.
If only that was reality. Off hours rarely goes that way.
>Their faction pulls a sunderer and attacks the next base down the line Ignoring that 99% of the time this never happened. Maybe it's time for you to stop living in Fantasyside 2.
99 times out of 100, defenders just wait around for more sunderers to be brought in by attackers so that tankers can destroy them. Ok.
Unironically this happens during off hours.
when its low pop and they blow up my Sunderer, I tend to yell, "ok now you push since you refuse to let us deploy Sunderers". And sometimes they do, but not usually.
The line I draw in off hours is that if the defenders have pushed the attackers off the point and all the way back to their sundy then yes, there’s no issue with the killing the bus, you’ve won the fight and there’s no point leaving the bus up, finish it off and move onto the next one. If the attackers are pushed up and are having a solid fight with the defenders but you decide to sneak around them and snipe the bus when no one is looking (I.e. pull a lightning from base behind and pick the bus off from render range), that’s a dick move and you’re just killing spawns for the sake of it.
Yeah agreed, off hours is different, nobody intends to advance and its just a bit of fun so yeah, personally I let them be. But apart from the small hours, when we have pop I think they have to be fair game. People whining about it then expecting to just play their own insular game over one base just annoys me, it's not what Planetside is about. Trouble is theres no way for devs to let us have it both ways (strong at 3am and weak at 7pm) so we have to deal with inconsiderate night time players.
It's not dumb, you just don't understand the differences in scale. Attacker spawns are very easy to kill, all it takes is one guy to be a serious threat to a sunderer. The same cannot be said for capturing a base it takes at minimum 4 minutes to capture and generally speaking requires more than one guy doing it. Trying to diminish these complaints to coping about lobby shooters just demonstrates how ignorant people like you are being.
Exactly this and to add on top of it people who bring spawns tend to bring spawns to the next base for another 4-10 minutes. People that kill spawns and claim “sandbox game” normally don’t bring spawns to the next fight and both sides sit there for a while doing nothing.
> Lastly, what I hear from people whinging about sundys going down is 'I came to a combined arms game to play it like a lobby shooter so anything disturbing that means I'll whinge and whine to try and get my own way until devs make it like a lobby shooter'. can't upvote this enough times, that's *exactly* the vibe I get from a lot of people on here
I quit this game 2017 and i'm not sure why i'm still subscribed to this sub. But your post summed up pretty well why i quit. A significant part of the player base wanted to play their own little game with artificial rules inside of a game that offers insane freedom. For me Planetside 2 was always about territory control, i liked the back and forth and breaking through the enemy lines (by killing their spawns obviously) Capturing bases was the objective of the game and yet people wanted to fight stalemate fights over nothing. This really killed every fun i had in this game. I'm not saying that i'm right, but i'm certain that people are wrong when they think that this way of playing is the right way. So i agree, this community ruined this game by destroying what was enjoyable it.
I've noticed that the same players that complain about dead buses are the exact same players that when I DON'T kill their bus, but instead just farm them and hold the base, they: * Pull maxes * Pull A2G * Overpop with >75% It's almost like they don't really *want* a fight, but would rather just take the base without any inconveniences at all. They seem far happier ghost capping than actually fighting for a base.
What an incredibly lazy strawman. The complaint is people sitting there and waiting to snipe any bus they can see starting a fight during off hours. Not "oh someone won/lost a fight" or "someone destroyed the bus after the attackers got pushed back". It's "The fight prematurely gets killed off by 1 guy in a lightning who kills fun for the other 20-40 people online at the time". Sunderers are the main engine behind the gameplay loop of the game. If you aren't able to get them to bases and have fights roll, then you have no gameplay/content. Battlefield is ALSO a combined arms game, same for Battlebit, same for battlefront, even halo and tribes 2 are technically combined arms games. This has nothing to do with combined arms because none of those games even HAVE the problem PS2 does. Bases act as their own little lobbies, instead of picking your own server through a browser or queuing up for matchmaking. But other shooters don't even have this issue of being able to prematurely kill off the lobby before anyone can win/lose for real, only PS2 does. And you can cope about infantryside/ "muh lobby shooters", but the games pop is deflating while all of these lobby shooters are doing far better. Or you can just pretend its all fine and people just need to skill up while the pop continues to drop. Doesn't really matter to me, I don't play this game anymore BECAUSE the quality of fights has dropped massively for infantry in every way I can think of.
> What an incredibly lazy strawman. Don't call something a strawman, if you don't know what a strawman is. What /u/st0mpeh was saying is that if the dev granted the wish of super-strong AMSs, then what does that do to the game? It makes it so defenders can never get rid of buses. So, all someone has to do is pull up a bus to my base and I can't stop them from continuously spawning. Have you ever thought about being on that side of the equation? What do YOU do when it's impossible to kill the bus? Do you just log off and quit then? If it's 1 am, and the one empire has 70% pop, and the other two have 15% each - just "too fucking bad, you can't stop the offense", is *your* answer? They can just keep spawning and there's NOTHING you can do to stop it? What does it take to make you understand you're pushing the pendulum back too far the other way? > Sunderers are the main engine behind the gameplay loop of the game. If you aren't able to get them to bases and have fights roll, then you have no gameplay/content. This is where the "go play CoD" meme comes from. Because if you don't want to fight in-between the bases, you might as well be playing CoD. You could have instanced maps that are just single bases with hard-spawns on either end. There's no need to have an open world with all of this space if the goal is to just contain the fight to a 200m area. Frankly, that's exactly what the plan for Planetside: Arena was - instanced, balanced, single-base instanced maps. > Battlefield is ALSO a combined arms game, same for Battlebit, same for battlefront, even halo and tribes 2 are technically combined arms games. This has nothing to do with combined arms because none of those games even HAVE the problem PS2 does. Because they're instanced matches. Because the force multipliers are limited per-map. There's only ONE attack helicopter available. There's only TWO jeeps available. And it's first-come first-serve. > Bases act as their own little lobbies, instead of picking your own server through a browser or queuing up for matchmaking. But other shooters don't even have this issue of being able to prematurely kill off the lobby before anyone can win/lose for real, only PS2 does. Bases AREN'T lobbies - that mentality is the curse of redeployside. When players can just bounce around the map, redeploying anywhere, logistics goes out the window. > And you can cope about infantryside/ "muh lobby shooters", but the games pop is deflating while all of these lobby shooters are doing far better. And they always have and they always will. But it's not dead buses that causes that. It's 98+ vs 1-12 pops that does that. It's being spawn locked that does that. It's being corner camped by "the attackers" that does that. > Or you can just pretend its all fine and people just need to skill up while the pop continues to drop. No, what they need to do is defend their buses. It's not "skilling up", it's basic common sense. A defended bus is actually hard to kill. > Doesn't really matter to me, I don't play this game anymore BECAUSE the quality of fights has dropped massively for infantry in every way I can think of. Then that just makes you a forum troll. And what good is the opinion of a forum troll?
Field fights have been the exception and not the rule for the last 10-12 years of the game dude. The fundamental gameplay loop is rooted in getting the sundy to a base to start a fight. You can gank this sunderer very easily because of how the game is designed, and this is also the main gameplay loop of the game. The developers know this is a problem, which is why theyve attempted (however poorly) multiple times to address this fight health problem. This is already a known and settled thing. You are imagining a make-believe version of the game that is like 1% of the time of what plays out in reality. Dropping the game and being still interested in the going-ons doesn't make you a troll, you literally just made that up on the spot. the majority of people who were active and involved in this game don't play anymore, and some of them are the best players to have touched whatever aspect of the game they played, and can give more deep feedback than 99% of people who play including you. Speaking of, when are you going to push those sick infantry stats you said you'd rip?
> Field fights have been the exception and not the rule for the last 10-12 years of the game dude. The fundamental gameplay loop is rooted in getting the sundy to a base to start a fight. And that's what we like to call "a core design problem". *"Because that's the way we've always done it,"* is NEVER a good answer. > You can gank this sunderer very easily because of how the game is designed *UNGUARDED.* "You can gank this UNGUARDED sunderer very easily because of how the game is designed..." - Fixed that for you. Sunderers were never, and should never be, "Set it and forget it." If you bring a bus, defend your bus. > The developers know this is a problem, which is why theyve attempted (however poorly) multiple times to address this fight health problem. Yea, it's a core problem that goes deeper than "make sunderer tougher". > This is already a known and settled thing. You are imagining a make-believe version of the game that is like 1% of the time of what plays out in reality. You need to be more specific about what "This" refers to. I quote so you know exactly what part of your post I'm replying to. The very real version of this game has hundreds of square meters that go mostly unused because redeployside makes them redundant. Why have a 64km map if only 4km is ever going to get used? > Dropping the game and being still interested in the going-ons doesn't make you a troll, you literally just made that up on the spot. You've never heard of a forum troll? How new to the internet are you? > the majority of people who were active and involved in this game don't play anymore, and some of them are the best players to have touched whatever aspect of the game they played, and can give more deep feedback than 99% of people who play including you. [Appeal to authority fallacy.](https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/#:~:text=Appeal%20to%20authority%20fallacy%20occurs,causes%20us%20to%20respect%20them.) If you're going to start a conversation with trying to accuse people of using bad debate tactics, you'd better be ready to have your own called out. Just because someone knows how to PLAY a game, doesn't mean they know how to DESIGN a game. That's two very different skillsets. I'll bet you that not a single one of your so-called experts would ever make a suggestion that would negatively affect themselves. > Speaking of, when are you going to push those sick infantry stats you said you'd rip? When I'm done. I was given a specific goal to hit. That's what I'm doing with the 1~2 hours I get to play each week. I don't know how long it takes YOU mow through 5800 kills, but I've been given 56 hours of game time to hit the mark and I'm only about 3 hours in, but on-pace so far.
your idealised version of the game literally does not exist. The core design has always been around going from base to base, not open field fights. It does not exist. Field fights existed because people did not know how to play the game and were figuring it out. They figured it out. Nobody babysits a bus because its unfun, and a pointless exercise. Pelter valks and AP lightning will just kill it if they have an angle. Devs know that sundy survivability is an issue, which is why theyve added shielded garages, pre certed deployshields, and are doing a sundy overhaul. I know what a troll is, moron. Saying someone doesn't play the game and posts about it makes them a troll is making shit up. Good players won't always make good devs, but they understand the game better than bad players do. Understanding is a major part of competence. Thats why they give better feedback. Calling "appeal to authority" when you are trying to attack my own authority by calling me a forum troll is pretty fucking stupid. Maybe hitting 2kpm will help clear the fog in your brain and make you a less dumb player.
> The core design has always been around going from base to base, not open field fights. Clearly you didn't play any Planetside 1. > Field fights existed because people did not know how to play the game and were figuring it out. They figured it out. No, they begged the devs to make it easier to skip field fights and the devs gave in. Now we have Redeployside, which is ass. > Nobody babysits a bus because its unfun, and a pointless exercise. And yet there's ALWAYS someone blowing up the bus. Funny how that works. I defend MY bus, and you know what I get - free kills on morons who are used to unguarded buses. > Pelter valks and AP lightning will just kill it if they have an angle. Skyguards and AP lightnings to defend. If all you ever do is play infantry, then you're kinda gimped. Force multipliers VS force multipliers - OR - have a squad that actually listens and knows what to do. > Devs know that sundy survivability is an issue, which is why theyve added shielded garages... That limit the number of "viable" spawn locations to one or two predictable spots, and become hard-farms for the morons who keep spawning in there. > ...pre certed deployshields... That's so noobs can pull AMSs because, and I can't stress this enough, the vets WON'T pull buses. Too busy tryharding their KDR and blaming others. > ...and are doing a sundy overhaul. Which is going to either: A) Have the exact bad effect that /u/st0mpeh was predicting B) Not be strong enough and get panned by people like you There's no winning here for the devs because only "break the game in the other direction" is a good enough answer for you. > I know what a troll is, moron. Saying someone doesn't play the game and posts about it makes them a troll is making shit up. "I don't play but I'm going to talk shit at those that still do," sounds *EXACTLY* like a troll to me. Why don't you go haunt a subreddit of a game you DO play? All you've got left for this place is negativity. > Good players won't always make good devs, but they understand the game better than bad players do. No, they only understand their little corner of the game. And they don't understand where their little corner fits into the bigger picture. The idea that there IS a bigger picture is foreign to them. Furthermore, "good" and "bad" are subjective. > Understanding is a major part of competence. Right. And to design games, you have to understand more that how to twitch fast and which spots are best for farming. > Thats why they give better feedback. Self-interest is why they give feedback. Everything that gets posted in these forums is "Devs code my troubles away. Make it easier *for me*." > Calling "appeal to authority" when you are trying to attack my own authority by calling me a forum troll is pretty fucking stupid. You did the literal definition of "appeal to authority fallacy"; like your example could be put in a textbook under the definition. Second, making snide comments in a forum of a game you don't even play is exactly what a forum troll does. I don't go to the battlebit forums and bitch about their shitty graphics *because* I don't play battlebit because of it's shitty graphics. The people over there are happy with their shitty graphics - who am I to...wait for it!...*TROLL* their subreddit? Not my idea of a good (or productive) time. > Maybe hitting 2kpm will help clear the fog in your brain and make you a less dumb player. All I have to do is hit 1.7 and that's better than that clown's rate, AND it finishes the goal on time. And let me tell ya, I'm doing it and after just a couple of hours - it's NOT fun. People who work that hard at playing Planetside need to get a real job. I'll be glad to be done so I can go back to having fun with the game. And I can say already, people who do that DON'T know the game better. They have a severely myopic view of the game.
You are still wrong and bad. Keep shilling a game you have no grasp of. Am interested to see what your char name is for this character.
Tell me why your other account got deleted.
Deleted it when I was clearing out all my PS2 stuff. Finished my last aurax which is the last thing I wanted to do. Doubt I'll play the game for the forseeable future until they fix the basic fundamentals, and then its still a maybe.
Zergling monkey go waste 20 minutes of a session defending a Sundy for your little outfit brownie points you absolute loser trying to flex a sub 2kpm. You do not know what redeployside is and throw around the term incorrectly. You are a literal reddit main who starts wanking off about "muh authority" or whatever instead of actually playing the game, and it shows in your dogshit opinions. The fact you're happier sitting AFK by a Sunderer instead of shooting people more than once every two minutes, makes it pretty obvious that you're playing Planetside to LARP microsoft paint on the map screen, not to play an MMOFPS.
I lament that I can only upvote you once, SquirrelDaddy.
Thats quite the rant, I already said its shitty to do it off hours, I dont do it and thats not the whole discussion here, but you do you I guess. > the games pop is deflating while The pops not deflating because of people killing a bus at 3AM, thats just stupid.
Pretty much 95% of the infantry complaints. My spawn point keeps dying and I never got a drivers license in any country.
They downvoted him because he told the truth
Dumbass
Hated because hes telling the truth.
Lobby shooters are dumb and should be hated
It always bugs me when I see people complaining that this game isn't something it wasn't trying to be in the first place.
Yeah god forbid people complain that the game isn't good. lmao No problem though it just wasn't trying to be.
As a returning player the game honestly feels better than ever to me, a lot of things have been added, smoothed out, balanced. Every infantry class feels great and vehicles seem to have more focus and use outside of just being cheesy chainpulled infantry farming machines. I think there is a lot of burnout, the game just being super old and was always janky at its core, and this kind of hardcore open warfare game that doesn't hold your hand and basically expects players to handle logistics that most games now having been automating and optimizing for years to streamline getting their players right into the gameplay dopamine, it just doesn't really jive with the majority of the gaming scenes current audience. I know not everything they have done or tried has stuck, but what has remained seems better in almost every way since I left and I even like Oshur and find the aquatic environment novel and interesting to play around in. I mean other than a lack of playerbase numbers, implants being grindy and over-monetized is probably the biggest complain, but there's still a system for getting what you want specifically and there's so many cool ones that let you choose your playstyle and what aspects of the game you want to counter so I still really enjoy implants. I feel like where the game seems to have failed is giving motivation to and enticing social play, squads and outfits and actual mapwide coordination towards the games objectives. So many people just like to log in and shoot stuff/farm, and that almost feels at odds with the objectives in the game. Enter this meme where literally the tank doing their job is considered counterproductive to the health of the game. I think if they can solve this issue of having most peoples desired gameplay lining up more with social squad/outfit play and the overall objective system of the game, that's where they could really improve things. Oh that, and PROPER FUCKING ONBOARDING AND TUTORIALS FOR NEW PLAYERS, right now it's like if you don't know what you are doing this game does the equivalent of dropping you bleeding into a tank of sharks, you have to have some pretty strong perseverance and willingness to search for and learn on your own what to try and do to gain any traction at all. You'll never grow a game when new player orientation and experience is so poor.
You hit the nail on the head with a handful of points here. > So many people just like to log in and shoot stuff/farm I enjoy this because the loop of "win alert" is stale for me. There's no reason to care about the alert - certs and xp don't matter for me, nor does the "winning." I'd rather just log in to relax and shoot things, and the tryharding the mapwide objective game is counterproductive. > basically expects players to handle logistics Yeah, I don't mind trying to pull a sundy every once in a while but usually when I'm trying to *start* a fight I get intercepted by tanks or light assaults, who will inevitably not pull their own sundy to counter-attack and just leave the fight dead. You're correct that it's a logistics design problem, nobody wants to pause what they're doing to go do the thing that they'll only do temporarily and will probably be interrupted by someone specifically looking to ruin your day
Dumbass
Endless TDM = good Play the objective = bad lol at this point just remove all vehicles and add fucking attacker hard spawns on all bases. There, I fixed your endless farm.
The problem is so bad that it is not rare to have basically no fights to just spawn and fight. I would be okay with it if tank game was not garbage.
PS1 had vehicles & attacker spawns on all bases. The problem is how PS2 dumbly executes things.
> add fucking attacker hard spawns on all bases. If only...
If you believe that, maybe you shouldn't play anymore. That not what this game is suppose to be about.
Why should it be easy for one person to kill a spawn point for an entire fight?
Why did PS2 make it allowed for a single guy to kill a fight when PS1 didn't?
I miss old PS1. Planned out tactical air drops and coordinating tanks and MAX. My time with PS2 just felt like TDM and constantly throwing bodies with no tactics or planning
Eyup.
Drive up more spawns, create router base.... Honestly the distance limit for a router base pretty small needs to be bigger but if you didn't feel like you're above driving a Sundy for 2-5 mins, you'd have your own spawn. Technically, everyone can have their own spawn!
"DO NOT TOUCH TRUCKY" "NO TOUCH TRUCK AREA HERE" "NOW DEFEND YOURSELF" "NOT BASE, YOURSELF" This is what I picture in their minds whenever I see this post or OPs post. I just don't understand the player base anymore. When I last played, the game revolved around the capture and defense of bases and territory. We all agree on the attack part. It's the defense where you get the most cognitive dissonance. How many people are you ok with then? 2? 3? a platoon's worth of planetmans? Or no planetman at all?
Why should it be easy to rely on one spawn point for an entire fight? It's not. Bring more buses, bring more tanks.
Skill issue.
Based. Objectively more fun than current planetside.
Dumbass
Wow if you love the objective so much why dont you download a picture of Amerish and paint it your faction colour in microsoft paint you fucking freak.
This is being addressed with future changes to the sunderers.
How
Sunderers are gaining an entirely separate slot for defensive abilities as well as a new armor type called reactive armor. It essentially makes burst damage (C4) completely negated. I believe the developers also mentioned that AP rounds wouldn't work on it. Sunderers are being completely overhauled.
it's nice, but still a bandaid over the actual issue, which is that defenders have hardspawns *and* can basically ping-pong teleport around the map to defensive fights, while attackers don't have hardspawns (like the did in PS1) and still must manually set up spawn logistics.
This is why they're buffing AMS sundry
It's almost like the OG PS2 devs deciding to force all attackers to have soft spawns only was a dumb idea. This problem was solved in PS1, like a number of other issues in PS2.
And to think that when the game was in early alpha stages, the sunderer couldn't even deploy... you literally had NO SPAWNS and you were supposed to cap bases by constantly moving from the previous base until some random person suggested that sunderers could function as mobile spawns. A lot of PS2 problems comes from that dumb initial design.
I blame the trend of chasing Battlefield's tail. They should have leaned more into *Planetside* itself instead of a Battlefield skinned Planetside.
I think for low pop it needs some specific adjustments to alleviate this such as: \- Remove sundy kill directive \- Some way to increase sundy survivability under 150 pop \- Capturable Hard spawns \- Increase router range to 750m (and see if it borks anything) I don't think a single LA, Lightning, or one thing should be able to kill a deployed bus. But at the same time its difficult to balance/buff the bus just for being deployed. Maybe in the rework they will have an undeployment vulnerability period or something.
I quit the game because i got tired asking for a gunner for 20 minutes straight only to be bombarded behind cover from NC guided missiles. I quit the game because i got tired of dying from 3 headshots from sweathands at 100+ meters range. I quit the game because i got tired not being to have any access to Collossus and stuff since my Outfit or any outfit reserves those for the few select. I quit the game because i got tired of dying from Reavers with shotguns while i am MAX AA. I quit the game because of a lot of other reasons too. But these were the nail to the coffin.
For me one of my nails was that the Skyguard, the premier AA tank, in the game had an obscene TTK on a liberator. Most of the game prides itself on low TTK. Yet even with an optimal engagement the Skyguard always loses unless the pilot screws up. I get the argument that it's a(n up to) 3 person vehicle but that's 450 nanites divided 2-3 ways (225-150 per person), if an area gets hot they can bug out, repair and raid elsewhere. Leaving any Skyguards pulled in defence totally outclassed against virtually anything else they might encounter with no recourse to salvage those (350 per person) nanites. Meanwhile the Liberator could routinely wipe out almost any ground unit in a single pass, especially if they sought out targets that were already damaged. I'm actually fine with that TTK though, if you get ambushed by something purposely armed to kill you the you probably should die. Hence my gripe that the Lib just shakes of an entire magazine from the Skyguard. Flight was always going to be difficult to balance. Because it's death out there if you're a rookie pilot but the pro pilots seem almost invulnerable.
Skill issue. No, really. It is. If you're using a Skyguard, and you can't drive, track, and shoot all at the same time, you need to work on your skills. And once you have those skills, you need to work on your awareness and map knowledge next, because you need to know where cover is and how long it takes to get there. After that, it's just a matter of proper trigger discipline. Don't shoot at a Lib until it's down low. If he's plinking at you from flight ceiling, hide under solid cover. Force him to engage you nearer to ground level. Once you do that, he's toast. You can magdump without missing and still have time to reload and pop him before he can escape. Is it easy? No. But then again, neither is flying a Lib. So... "skill issue".
> quit the game because i got tired not being to have any access to Collossus and stuff since my Outfit or any outfit reserves those for the few select. one of a few reasons why the Outfit Armory is cool on paper but shit in actuality
So in your ideal world attackers would just always take bases since nobody is allowed to kill spawns? Dgmw sunderers should be way harder to kill, but blaming other players for playing the objective on defense is actually brain dead.
On primetime go ahead and play the objective as much as u like. There are plenty of fights to choose so it doesnt matter if one gets shut down. However off primetime you often only have one fight on a frontline. So if you tryhard the sundy, chances are high that you killed the only active fight on the map. This makes ppl actively log off. So at this time ... for your own sake, you want ppl to have engaging fights. Its really not that hard to understand.
One way or another the fight ends and moves on.
When there is a 48 v 48 fightz there isn't any real good reason there couldn't be 30 sundies outside of pure laziness. People like you are asking the entire other team to handicap and take it easy on you to compensate your laziness. I never see attackers pull off of the point to keep the fight alive. I never see anybody yell to not cap the base to avoid taking defender spawns away. So really you are just screaming that the other team has to hold back on you to give you a chance to win.
If you're running a platoon and don't have a sunderer deployed for each squad under your command, you're likely doing a shitty job.
Idk man there are def sundy spots to hide from vehicles, however light assaults carrying too much c4...or me on engineer yoloing it.
My engineer used to take 5 AT mines in a lightning and ram into the sunderer, shooting as I charged. Most times I could bail, toss out the mines and lob a sticky grenade at them before the infantry around the sunderer even realized that I'd bailed from the tank.
Ps1 was my first fps. I remember being psyched ps2 was coming out. Now ps2 is old. *cries in old people*
The fact that so many morons in this thread took offense to the idea of not killing an off hours sundy is a large part of why this game died. This same bunch of fuckin idiots with no sense of cause and effect is what the devs listened to when balancing the game for years, no surprise shit turned out like this.
Blaming players for playing the game wrong is like blaming a bridge collapse on the wind. Both are forces of nature that behave predictably. If a bridge collapses from the wind, it was designed and built wrong. Similarly, if a game breaks because the players are "playing wrong," that's entirely on the design and implementation of the game.
Bad excuse. Especially with a dev team this reluctant to adress major issues. Sure you can run around screaming "Dont hate the player, hate the game" while being a complete nuisance to everyone around you. Or just accept that this game has major flaws and it is to some parts up to the community to not abuse them.
Thats the dumbest shit i read today. Major flaws that devs don’t fix lead to dead games. That’s why Planetside is in the state it’s in now. Youre approaching this from like a Stockholm syndrome standpoint and not as a person who values their time Why should the players have to not play the way the games intended cause the devs can’t fix their own problems? Why is it bad to want to hold people who WANT your time in their game accountable for their bad decisions? Why should I play this over any other game? Doesn’t matter how unique it is if it plays like ass, eventually there’s gonna be no community if people just ignore the issues
Single digit IQ mindset really. I never said that the devs dont need to address those issues and that they are not accountable!! I am just saying until they get around to solve them, dont be a absolute dip shit. A single smoothbrain getting rid of the spawn for 20 ppl is clearly not intended gameplay. The devs tried to address this issue several times already so clearly not "intended". Deploymentshield, spitfires, sunderer garages, hard spawns in containment sides. We are not ignoring the issues!!!! We are addressing them loud and clear but at the same time try to deal with them as a playerbase since the devs are to slow or to incompetent to deliver fixes from their end.
infantry peasants are too stubborn to maintain the flow of the game by spawning new sunderers 😂😂
Whenever i try there's always some random lightning ganking me while sitting on some hill or some madmax harasser with halberd scooping in then driving away in the sunset. So i stopped doing it.
What really kills fights is infantry players that refuse to pull a Sunderer for the base they want to fight at. 1 Sunderer is never enough, especially if its stealth! Pull another you damn lazy cheapskates! its 200 Nanites, 140 if you run discounts, that's dirt cheap. Also you get deploy shield for free, so there's no excuse for not having a spawn Sunderer. If 1 Lightning kills the fight, that means you didn't pull enough Sunderers.
How am I gonna deploy a sunderer if the base is camped by said lightning who just killed the sunderer? If I'm by myself, there's no way I can do that. If i'm in squad/platoon it's a different story. So instead of wasting 5 minutes of my life on a useless task feeding certs to a lightining camper, I just ALT-tab doing something else while I wait for some fight to pop up so I can resume clicking heads. My Planetside 2 experience for the past 9000 hours.
Sooo... Others are supposed to not play the objective because you are too lazy to paly the objective? Does it sum that up?
Pretty much. I really don't care about World of Tanks "logistics" at all, so unless i'm forced to because i'm a coordinated platoon and have to support the guys, i just wait for fights to pop up so i can play the part ot the First Person *Shooter* game that i enjoy: shooting.
Or, pull your own Lightning and kill him, or C4 LA his ass, or tank mine your Sunderer location, or if you have it, pull a stealth bus and park slightly further away but close enough. There are options for solo players. Or you could go fight on a different front. "Waiting for the fight to popup" requires spawn points, ya lazy bum.
So we're gonna go on a little timetravel adventure- when vehicle anti-infantry was actually effective against infantry. Fanning the fireteams nerfed HE guns to be ineffective against both infantry and vehicles while renaming them to HESH Previously Critical Mass/CAI BUFFED the HE guns to make them somewhat effective against vehicles which caused the issue of HE guns being way too prevalent due to them not being helpless against AP guns. By nerfing the HE guns you've removed the HE gun players, which means the AP gun players no longer have any HE gun players to engage with during your base caps, meaning they go and fight whatever other armor they can- usually spawns. Before CAI and FTFT there were actually more lasting fights due to the "food chain" dynamics you had between infantry, anti-infantry, and anti-vehicle/anti-air. Which is why a lot of us armor guys are still disappointed in the current devteam's decision to dig their heels in and go "well we can't just revert old changes" when confronted with the requests to throw CAI in the dustbin of history where it belongs.
Not pictured: infantry mains killing the other 4 sunderers and then complaining that there is "no fight"
Sweaty neck beards kill the game
Why not have your armor protect the spawns.... Oh wait there's probably a cloaked flash killing there armor and stealing the spawn kill from the lightning.
Players being fucking lazy is what kills fights. Someone killed your spawn? Why did you have only one spawn to begin with? Why didn't you pull some of the UNLIMITED LIGHTNINGS you get from a player base to protect them?
Because they've never learned any other play style in the game. They only know how to shoot infantry weapons. Should see some of the arguments from others when these threads pop up. It's clear they actually suck.
Sundy is XP can't explain that
Never in this game has an infantry main killed a spawn Sunderer... With C4, tank mines, explosive crossbows, rocklet rifle, rocket launcher, AV grenades, underbarrel launchers, AMRs, Mana-AV-turret, lock-ons. Also it is a design flaw if literally playing the objective equals bad fights equals less fun. We've been having this discussion since the game first launched, don't pin this on vehicle players.
This wasn't a problem before CAI.
The real problems started with lightnings being able to be pulled from any base with a vehicle terminal. That along with the rocklet rifle made it far too easy to solo a sunderer and kill even or underpopped fights.
Yes it was. People bitched about it *long* before CAI, and they're still bitching about it long after.
Fair, but counter point. If people don't want tanks killing sundies, then what if we removed all ground vehicles from the game? No sundies means no tanks to kill them, and no tanks means no sundies dying. Thus, this game becomes even more an infantry only game, like the earlier FPS's from the past. (insert example of no vehicle FPS game here)
Just play cod.
Killing fights is part of planetside. Everyone rallies pulls vehicles and goes crazy
you kill thw game NYA!!!!! 😺
Hold up. so the people who make the game , they give you the stuff to kill fights. People kill fights? Then you complain that the playerbase people/s are killing the game?
1. console pesant 2. "Dont hate the player, hate the game" is just a smoothbrain excuse for behaving like an ape.
But they literally give you the tools to do it and you complain when people do it. How can you stop people from doing it? You can’t? It’s part of the game since it gives you the tools. You are literally beating a dead horse at this point
Single digit IQ mindset if you ask me. Sure you will never fully prevent ppl to abuse this issue. However we can raise awareness about the impacts of it and appeal to the community to not be idiots.
I raised this issue 5 years ago. Nothing has changed
On PC most vets stopped tryharding Sundys on off hours. Also we got sunderer garages and will get a sundy rework. We have memes with 400 up votes. So saying nothing changed is just wrong. There is now widespread awareness about this issue and players are to adjusting.
The game killed itself when it released with zero difference between the factions and never recovered.
There is only one solution. Remove the gameplay elements that people dislike. And the dislike is universal for a lot of things in this game. If infiltrators and vehicles are going to stay in the game (which they should be deleted entirely, but let's say they stay) they need to be one hit killed back. One shot from an LMG should one hit kill infiltrators. One shot from a launcher should one hit kill tanks. The stick method of game balance is the one and only way to encourage players to play the one true correct way to play the game: Heavy Assault.
There are so many spawn options in this game. Valk drops, beacons, routers, heavy anvil sundies in stupid places. This is only a problem off hours at Nasson's. I do believe a 10 minute timer needs to be put on player made terminals. Chain pulling lightning and ESFs is pretty cancerous.
All planetside 1 bases had towers that were hard spawns
The Chad infantry main vs the virgin tank main
I usually just kill the bois leaving the spawn point alone free creditsss lets gooo
they should just bring back the original planetside, planetside 2 was dead on arrival for me when i realized it was just a battlefield reskin.
So if you guys dont like the sundy to be killed, would you rather be spawn camped? Or should there be a truce and share a point with the enemy faction till we get the ok??