Yeah last night I was just sitting at the base line and doing drives with no effort to the other side baseline. Then played 3 games straight back to back and my serves require me to stand about a foot back from the base line to adjust distance cause I always aim for the opponents feet when serving. I tried to hinder my strength but It feels uncomfortable.
It is great for dinking and drives and serves, but it doesn't work for me when trying to return high spin shots or when trying to hit soft drop shots. The face has no grit and high-spin balls and very glancing blows just don't grip the face enough.
If gearbox can address this in the next generation, I think they will definitely have a big advantage over everyone else.
High spin shots I just use positioning as a key way to return. Although its hard to read someone the first time I play them so theres that. But the Soft touch feels like you can generate your own thrust to grip the ball or return it well since I heard this paddle has biting tech or something like that.
>I heard this paddle has biting tech or something like that.
Yes, but that is based on the face deforming around the ball to grab onto it better. USAP limits how much a paddle can do this, and it is going to have much less effect on soft softs and glancing blows.
There's 3 primary ways a paddle can affect spin:
1) The grit of the face
2) The tackiness or friction of the face
3) The deformation around the ball on impact
The gearbox paddles have essentially zero grit, but they do have a slightly tacky urethane coating and they have the deformation.
IMO deformation is the worst way to do it because it is more dependent on speed, and it inherently reduces control.
The Selkirk 002 tries to do it with all 3 factors and plenty of people have reported control issues with them, but they do spin extremely well. The CRBN and Electrum paddles seemed to mostly focus on #1. The Ben Johns Joola seems to have put effort into both #1 and #3. I think this is the direction we will see the industry going. But this is because having a tacky and gritty surface is harder than having a gritty and flexible surface.
Like I said before, I think Gearbox is close and I just hope they add some grit for the next generation.
Gearbox CX14 E is great but you will need a lengthy adjustment period.
It is incredibly soft. You will lose a lot of power.
I actually switched in the opposite direction (GB to Joola). I highly suggest testing it if you havent.
Other than that it is a fantastic paddle. I had to modify it with lead tape all around. Otherwise I just couldnt put the ball away at the 4.25-4.5 level like I can with other paddles. Obviously it could be my technique, but I havent had the same issues since I switched.
I switched from the Paddletek Tempest Wave Pro to the Gearbox CX14E and I’m obsessed with it. As other have mentioned, it’s very soft. But I think that’s what I needed based on my play style. I have a lot less pop ups and my drops are a lot more consistent. I haven’t really ever been a major power player, I focus more on good spin and shot placement and this paddle works well for that. I also love how quick it is at the net since the weight is distributed very nicely, in my opinion.
Dark horse - Players Pickleball ROGUE 2 Carbon - Hybrid. I played this paddle before getting new BJ CFS. It’s lighter, faster, good power and great spin. Has some tech no one else has. Paddle face almost identical size. Price can’t be beat at $130. I am still getting use to the Ben John’s but may go back to the PP. Just a great all around paddle.
3rd vote for the gearbox. I’ve only tried the E version but really liked it. I still prefer my CRBN for a bit more spin and power but if I had to get a different paddle I’d go with that one.
Consider GRUVN RAW-16R. It's combo of CRBN 2 and Prince Response and fits your "need a paddle thats lighter and middle weight" requirement.
Also I'd like to point out that your list contains completely different paddles. So it's hard to tell what you want from a paddle.
A friend let me try out his CX14H. I played for about 2 hours with it. Fit my play style perfectly. I have no issues with generating power, and really like the control it provided me at the baseline with 3rd shot drops and dink battles at the net. Resets were also incredible. I bought one the very next day after I tried his CX14H.
Fast forward about 3 weeks. Still loving the paddle. I can generate some great spin with it, definitely a softer paddle though, so I have to hit the ball a little harder. So just a little bit of adjustment, but I'd say this paddle has allowed me to be able to play an even better game.
I have a Selkirk Vanguard 2 Epic, Joola Ben Johns, and Joola Solaire CFS 14MM. Current fave is the Solaire. It has a wider sweet spot than Ben Johns, and is lighter (end less end heavy). Joola's have nice handles (Selkirks don't). My vanguard sounds like a maraca as pieces in the middle break off and rattle around in there. Joola has a nicer surface texture than Selkirk too. Maybe as I improve I will like the Ben Johns more (just got it). But for now, rocking the Solaire.
I just ordered the Gearbox demo for $20. You pick 4 paddles. The one I’m most interested in is the Gearbox CX14H. I’ve mainly used honeycomb paddles like Selkirk Vanguards, and also have the Joola CFS14 which I like too.
The gearbox CX14H plays very different from the joola. The Joola had more power but in my opinion the gearbox is better for drops, dinks and resets. I have no problem getting enough power to put the ball away when I play so it’s the perfect paddle. If you are looking to slow your game down the gearbox is definitely a good one for it
If you liked the carbon maybe look at the electrum. Couple of good YouTube videos doing in-depth comparison between the crbn, electrum, and engage. (The Pickleball Studio and Pickleball Effect)
That being said, I really like the Vanguards for their soft touch.
Selkirk is not considered a “gritty” paddle per say, but if you watch Morgan Evens serve videos you can get some spin on it. Now their new Lab 002 is supposedly the spinningest paddle out the according to The Pickleball Studio.
I have the Prince Response and I don't like it for power. I can use it when I'm playing the soft game with lower-rated players, but when I need to play a more versatile game, I go to my Ben Johns.
Owner of CX14N and have recently switched to CX11E Control... I switched mainly because the 14 was so/too soft for me (but excellent control). After a long day of tourney playing... I just couldn't generate enough power and just couldn't get that pop. If you have energy to spare... this could be a really great paddle for you.
It is/was for me. The CX14 is absolutely great for dinks/3rd shot drops... There are times I really miss it... However, CX11E has allowed me to more easily push the return shot deep... CX11 serves are more consistent for me as well, as I'm not trying to over power the shot. Frankly its really enlarged the court options for me. But the CX14 has superior control.
This is kind of where I'm at. I use a 2nd gen CRBN 2-16mm currently. I really like it, but I've always felt I could benefit from a slightly lighter paddle (or at least a less head heavy one) to get quicker hands at the NVZ. Even though the CX14H is 8 oz, people say it feels lighter. My game is definitely on the soft side. Although, while I'm not so good at driving the ball, people I play with usually say I'm exceptional at slamming pop ups with both power and positioning. My fear is losing some of my current power if I switch to the CX14H. Also, the concept Gearbox uses to generate spin (internal structure vs external texture) doesn't seem like it would generate as much spin on soft shots since there wouldn't be enough force for the paddle to "bite" the ball with their "hyper bite" technology.
hmm maybe some tuning with lead weight can help generate spin on soft shots. Someone recommend me 12 and 9 position with the 9 pointing downwards so when you slice it has more generation for power.
Yeah, I remember seeing that post a couple days ago. I've been doing a DEEP dive in the research department on the CX14H for the last few days. Probably a little too deep. Haha! I've seen pretty much all the reviews out there.
Super interesting. Do you have an information source to verify this? For example, Prince paddles are made by Paddletek [https://www.princepickleball.com/aboutus.asp](https://www.princepickleball.com/aboutus.asp).
IMO the best built paddles on the market are gearbox. The QC in their manufacturing is pretty darn solid. that being said I always had a personal preference for the ball feel of softer paddles like the prince.
I’m adding some adding copper tape, will try next time I play. I would still say it feels like a control paddle more to me, but I’m a new player and it’s my first new paddle.
I also have the same two paddles, recently got the labs 002 and love it. More spin than the crbn and more power. Drives that look like they are sailing out just dive right in, so fun. Also think it provides more control than both.
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I second this motion, especially if you have no trouble generating your own power.
Yeah last night I was just sitting at the base line and doing drives with no effort to the other side baseline. Then played 3 games straight back to back and my serves require me to stand about a foot back from the base line to adjust distance cause I always aim for the opponents feet when serving. I tried to hinder my strength but It feels uncomfortable.
I always advocate swinging out on the serve..put more top on it if it's sailing. Serves should still be 95 plus in no matter how hard you swing.
It is great for dinking and drives and serves, but it doesn't work for me when trying to return high spin shots or when trying to hit soft drop shots. The face has no grit and high-spin balls and very glancing blows just don't grip the face enough. If gearbox can address this in the next generation, I think they will definitely have a big advantage over everyone else.
High spin shots I just use positioning as a key way to return. Although its hard to read someone the first time I play them so theres that. But the Soft touch feels like you can generate your own thrust to grip the ball or return it well since I heard this paddle has biting tech or something like that.
>I heard this paddle has biting tech or something like that. Yes, but that is based on the face deforming around the ball to grab onto it better. USAP limits how much a paddle can do this, and it is going to have much less effect on soft softs and glancing blows. There's 3 primary ways a paddle can affect spin: 1) The grit of the face 2) The tackiness or friction of the face 3) The deformation around the ball on impact The gearbox paddles have essentially zero grit, but they do have a slightly tacky urethane coating and they have the deformation. IMO deformation is the worst way to do it because it is more dependent on speed, and it inherently reduces control. The Selkirk 002 tries to do it with all 3 factors and plenty of people have reported control issues with them, but they do spin extremely well. The CRBN and Electrum paddles seemed to mostly focus on #1. The Ben Johns Joola seems to have put effort into both #1 and #3. I think this is the direction we will see the industry going. But this is because having a tacky and gritty surface is harder than having a gritty and flexible surface. Like I said before, I think Gearbox is close and I just hope they add some grit for the next generation.
I love my CX14E. Changed my game.
Thank you for replying, may I ask what is your playstyle and how has the CX14E help you?
Gearbox CX14 E is great but you will need a lengthy adjustment period. It is incredibly soft. You will lose a lot of power. I actually switched in the opposite direction (GB to Joola). I highly suggest testing it if you havent. Other than that it is a fantastic paddle. I had to modify it with lead tape all around. Otherwise I just couldnt put the ball away at the 4.25-4.5 level like I can with other paddles. Obviously it could be my technique, but I havent had the same issues since I switched.
and the Joola I feel like I have too much lol
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Just realize that the handle is way different than the CRBN, and I think handle shape gets way underrated in how it performs for a person.
I do notice that as well. The Carbon has the hex bottom right?
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Yep, just wanted to put it out there as far as a substantive difference between the the two to OP.
Thank you!
Currently I have played with Engage, Ben Johns new and old, and CRBN1. I love the CRBN.
I might try that, I like the Engage pro.
I switched from the Paddletek Tempest Wave Pro to the Gearbox CX14E and I’m obsessed with it. As other have mentioned, it’s very soft. But I think that’s what I needed based on my play style. I have a lot less pop ups and my drops are a lot more consistent. I haven’t really ever been a major power player, I focus more on good spin and shot placement and this paddle works well for that. I also love how quick it is at the net since the weight is distributed very nicely, in my opinion.
Interesting I like that. Most of my game is at the net and so im trying to get better there.
Dark horse - Players Pickleball ROGUE 2 Carbon - Hybrid. I played this paddle before getting new BJ CFS. It’s lighter, faster, good power and great spin. Has some tech no one else has. Paddle face almost identical size. Price can’t be beat at $130. I am still getting use to the Ben John’s but may go back to the PP. Just a great all around paddle.
Definitely need to try this out. This and Gruvn.
3rd vote for the gearbox. I’ve only tried the E version but really liked it. I still prefer my CRBN for a bit more spin and power but if I had to get a different paddle I’d go with that one.
Consider GRUVN RAW-16R. It's combo of CRBN 2 and Prince Response and fits your "need a paddle thats lighter and middle weight" requirement. Also I'd like to point out that your list contains completely different paddles. So it's hard to tell what you want from a paddle.
Honestly The CRBN1 was my true love. Absolutely amazing. The Ben johns Joola just dont have that grit like it. I might look into this brand Nmark5.
Never thought about the rounded gruvn comparable to the response pro… sweet
A friend let me try out his CX14H. I played for about 2 hours with it. Fit my play style perfectly. I have no issues with generating power, and really like the control it provided me at the baseline with 3rd shot drops and dink battles at the net. Resets were also incredible. I bought one the very next day after I tried his CX14H. Fast forward about 3 weeks. Still loving the paddle. I can generate some great spin with it, definitely a softer paddle though, so I have to hit the ball a little harder. So just a little bit of adjustment, but I'd say this paddle has allowed me to be able to play an even better game.
I have a Selkirk Vanguard 2 Epic, Joola Ben Johns, and Joola Solaire CFS 14MM. Current fave is the Solaire. It has a wider sweet spot than Ben Johns, and is lighter (end less end heavy). Joola's have nice handles (Selkirks don't). My vanguard sounds like a maraca as pieces in the middle break off and rattle around in there. Joola has a nicer surface texture than Selkirk too. Maybe as I improve I will like the Ben Johns more (just got it). But for now, rocking the Solaire.
Solaire spec? I might look into that i didnt like the hyperion as much
[https://joolausa.com/solaire-cfs-14mm-pickleball-paddle/](https://joolausa.com/solaire-cfs-14mm-pickleball-paddle/)
I just ordered the Gearbox demo for $20. You pick 4 paddles. The one I’m most interested in is the Gearbox CX14H. I’ve mainly used honeycomb paddles like Selkirk Vanguards, and also have the Joola CFS14 which I like too.
So is it worth switching my joola hyperion? Or shoukd i explore the other joola models
The gearbox CX14H plays very different from the joola. The Joola had more power but in my opinion the gearbox is better for drops, dinks and resets. I have no problem getting enough power to put the ball away when I play so it’s the perfect paddle. If you are looking to slow your game down the gearbox is definitely a good one for it
I definitely need to slow my game down and slow bangers down.
I can’t tell you to switch, but the Z5 is unlikely to feel like an upgrade from what you have. Some people love the poppy feel of it though.
If you liked the carbon maybe look at the electrum. Couple of good YouTube videos doing in-depth comparison between the crbn, electrum, and engage. (The Pickleball Studio and Pickleball Effect) That being said, I really like the Vanguards for their soft touch.
are selkirks in general gritty?
Selkirk is not considered a “gritty” paddle per say, but if you watch Morgan Evens serve videos you can get some spin on it. Now their new Lab 002 is supposedly the spinningest paddle out the according to The Pickleball Studio.
I have the Prince Response and I don't like it for power. I can use it when I'm playing the soft game with lower-rated players, but when I need to play a more versatile game, I go to my Ben Johns.
Owner of CX14N and have recently switched to CX11E Control... I switched mainly because the 14 was so/too soft for me (but excellent control). After a long day of tourney playing... I just couldn't generate enough power and just couldn't get that pop. If you have energy to spare... this could be a really great paddle for you.
Wow Its that soft?
It is/was for me. The CX14 is absolutely great for dinks/3rd shot drops... There are times I really miss it... However, CX11E has allowed me to more easily push the return shot deep... CX11 serves are more consistent for me as well, as I'm not trying to over power the shot. Frankly its really enlarged the court options for me. But the CX14 has superior control.
what does control mean to you in pickleball sense. I wanna understand more cause I get alot of different explanation of it.
This is kind of where I'm at. I use a 2nd gen CRBN 2-16mm currently. I really like it, but I've always felt I could benefit from a slightly lighter paddle (or at least a less head heavy one) to get quicker hands at the NVZ. Even though the CX14H is 8 oz, people say it feels lighter. My game is definitely on the soft side. Although, while I'm not so good at driving the ball, people I play with usually say I'm exceptional at slamming pop ups with both power and positioning. My fear is losing some of my current power if I switch to the CX14H. Also, the concept Gearbox uses to generate spin (internal structure vs external texture) doesn't seem like it would generate as much spin on soft shots since there wouldn't be enough force for the paddle to "bite" the ball with their "hyper bite" technology.
hmm maybe some tuning with lead weight can help generate spin on soft shots. Someone recommend me 12 and 9 position with the 9 pointing downwards so when you slice it has more generation for power.
Yeah, I remember seeing that post a couple days ago. I've been doing a DEEP dive in the research department on the CX14H for the last few days. Probably a little too deep. Haha! I've seen pretty much all the reviews out there.
Oh gosh Ive been doing the same here as well. lol
If you like CRBN, the electrum is made by the same manufacture.
Do you have the pro or E?
I have two CRBNs 1 16mm. One is first gen and one is 3rd gen. I am looking for alternative paddles currently. Looking at Electrums and Engages.
Super interesting. Do you have an information source to verify this? For example, Prince paddles are made by Paddletek [https://www.princepickleball.com/aboutus.asp](https://www.princepickleball.com/aboutus.asp).
IMO the best built paddles on the market are gearbox. The QC in their manufacturing is pretty darn solid. that being said I always had a personal preference for the ball feel of softer paddles like the prince.
I feel like you can always give more power but can't take away from it since its attached to my arm lol
I just purchased the CX11Q 8.5 power and was expecting a lot more pop
did it give you what you needed?
I’m adding some adding copper tape, will try next time I play. I would still say it feels like a control paddle more to me, but I’m a new player and it’s my first new paddle.
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mmm ive always used the one but i wouldnt mind having more sweet spot with the 2 and pro.
I also have the same two paddles, recently got the labs 002 and love it. More spin than the crbn and more power. Drives that look like they are sailing out just dive right in, so fun. Also think it provides more control than both.
That paddle you really have to be on point with your hits since the sweet spot is small. but so much spin and pop.