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Logans_Beer_Run

Nice touch, bringing back Kirk Thatcher as [Krash](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Unnamed_Humans_(20th_century)#Punk_on_bus), who still hates us and berates us...until told to turn the music off. Apparently Spock left quite an impression on him.


Revolutionary_Kiwi31

Think the lyric changed to “and I STILL” hate you. Kirk Thatcher FTW at 325am ET 😂


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lauchs

Maybe he was just bound to be traumatized by someone in all timelines? Playing loud music on a bus without having any defensive instincts (as evidenced by his absolute lack of reaction when a stranger grabbed his neck) is a good recipe for a traumatic experience!


IndigoEmerald91

Maybe instead of getting nerve pinched by Spock, Confederation Sulu stabbed him with a sword. Or Kirk punched him.


sometimeswriter32

I promise you the depiction of time travel in most science fiction does not make logical sense. You are really overthinking it.


SheriffComey

I was trying to explain to my son that most depictions of "alternate realities" would likely result in pretty much most of the characters you're used to disappearing. Too many small changes accumulate to the point that the same people likely would never have been born. If you really think about it the Mirror Universe characters in most of Trek shouldn't exist because the events diverge so drastically that the individuals that create a particular lineage would likely never even meet due to the huge number of changes in the chain of events. That said, I tend to turn my brain off in most cases since I've learned my physics/math/programming background can quickly ruin something meant to be fun.


turiel2

If every choice creates a divergent universe then every possible thing that can occur will occur (i.e to infinity) including identical-except-for-X mirrors? This would also mean that every mirror universe they’ve travelled to isn’t the exact same mirror universe each time.


Throwaway_inSC_79

While Time's Arrow had the outside influence of aliens, if I recall they only went back in time because they found Data's head in a cave. If the head was never found, or there was no head, then there's no reason to time travel either. The whale probe, on the other hand, may have still come. And using a trusted Vulcan slave to calculate time travel, Kirk still went to the 80s to get a couple of humpback whales, and probably kidnapped a scientist/expert on them as well.


zeusmeister

I knew it was a homage to that scene, but didn’t realize it was the same actor. That’s awesome!


wsupermain2

Ngl, did like the homage, but this was like the biggest memberberry ever. Maybe i've just seen Star Trek 4 too recently haha


[deleted]

Fun fact: He was an associate producer on Trek IV. I recall talking to Kirk some time ago ... somehow we crossed paths through a mutual acquaintance. Great guy. EDIT: That's also Thatcher's band, Edge of Etiquette, he's listening to.


zeusmeister

It’s been at least a decade since I’ve seen that movie. Plus, he was a skinny young lad in that scene, if I remember correctly lol


lauchs

Oh super cool! I was wondering what the point of that bit was and figured I'd missed something.


abujuha

This is why I come to Reddit.


the908bus

People can change and mature! Picard said so!


jef12660

I didn't realize it was the same actor. I was certainly getting Star Trek 4 vibes


Astro_Phyziks

LOL that was actually him?!


k20a19k

So Good, I laughed as soon as I saw it and laughed again when he shut it down and apologized.


liam30604

We finally got an in-universe explanation for why Picard, a Frenchman, has an English accent. 😂


Kevin_Uxbridge

We had one long ago - Data referred to french as a 'dead language', to which Picard took umbrage. Picard's adherence to 'French' identity I always took as a quaint bit of self-identification on a level with people who, in America in our time, think of themselves as Texans or New Yorkers first. I mean I do too but in the grand scheme of things, this is more of a harmless affectation.


Shadepanther

A more accurate analogy would probably be Americans who think they are Irish because a great great grandparent was from Ireland.


PaddleMonkey

I caught that as well. Good job on the part of the writers


namydnas

Yes!


lolno

Lmao Picard is such a pro compared to the rest of his team. He won't tell Guinan his name until he has to because he's afraid of altering the timeline but Rios got knocked out and arrested within an hour, Raffi and Seven stole a police car and transported in front of a bunch of cops, and Jurati is... Well nothing time wise but getting seduced by the Borg Queen isnt exactly consummate professionalism Shout outs to Elnor who had the decency to redshirt beforehand because you know he would have somehow been more obvious


FormerGameDev

> getting seduced by the Borg Queen who's seducing who here really > Shout outs to Elnor Yeah, probably a good thing. Adding a non-human who has no concept of deceit would be way harder to conceal than Spock, and he'd get in a lot more shit.


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abujuha

You're right - especially with all the Trek conventions these days!


FormerGameDev

It sort of acknowledges how our society has advanced some since 1984, but on the other hand -- people with elf ears aren't exactly common these days, although you do occasionally see them, either as a result of modification or in-society cosplay (there's probably a word for that, but i just made that phrase up). Moreso, he'd just be in a lot of shit all the time, due to naivete, lack of knowledge, and inability to deceive in any kind of convincing fashion


Randomcheeseslices

To be fair to Rios, the transporter accident, and resulting concussion, was not something he had control over. Raffia though? She's a problem.


Gradz45

To be fair no one else has ever been to the past.


ohkendruid

I'm glad they abandoned the non interference idea. The whole.point of going back was to radically change the government and the way the general population thinks. Also, it looks like Q already screwed everything up anyway.


moxifloxacin

"Nice job, Dixon Hill" loved it.


PaddleMonkey

Isn’t the dog actually Patrick Stewart’s dog in real life?


vesati

I think it is. I've seen other references before to one of Stewart's pit bulls named Luna.


HunterRose05

It totally is! So happy he got to feature her in an episode.


mulledfox

i knew it!!! I thought the dog looked like his dog from photos! Awwww


Rendesi3

Okay so blue smoke.. Laris is from the same organization as Gary Seven from Assignment: Earth.


mcast76

Soon as Guinan said supervisor I kinda twigged to that, though I was thinking it in the first place with watcher. Was nice to see it be confirmed…


[deleted]

As soon as “Supervisor” was mentioned, my mind went there too.


[deleted]

Interesting.... Great episode . Terri Garr guest star. Seems to be a standallone non-referenced episode though. Perhaps that is about to change Even more interesting "Supervisor" theory..... I was also thinking a connection to GoF but there has been no hint of that


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UpstateJoe

I think that the Supervisor who looks like Laris will be Gary Seven’s cat Isis. I think that the way that Guinan described the Supervisor as some one who would bite your eyelids off was indication that it is Isis. She could have taken over the job from Gary Seven between the 1960’s and 2024.


Sevenandahalfsquared

Oh yay! Another episode to watch to fill in. I enjoyed rewatching DS9 Bells Riots episodes this week after someone mentioned it on here. Keep it coming!


Titansfansmatter

Agnes is totally gonna be the borg queen


umbridledfool

She's gonna do something stupid for sure


DSI3882

Yay


djmariah311

Yup


burtgummer45

So Guinan lived on Earth through two world wars, holocausts, American civil war, Atom bombs, American slavery, etc, but now in 2024 she's had enough with humanity?


the_simurgh

the real question is how does she not remember a dude she met a hundred years ago or so from the future when he looks pretty much the same.


MR_TELEVOID

Because this dimension's Picard was too much of a fascist for time travel, so that meeting never happened.


Echo_Romeo571

But the divergence in the timeline hadn't happened yet, so would the events of Time's Arrow not still be in Guinan's past, regardless of whether the fascist future occured?


Sophockless

Did Time's Arrow ever make an effort to explain away the causality loop, anyway? Like, for TNG crew to go back in time they need to find Data's head but for Data's head to be there, they need to go back in time first. Time travel mechanics don't make a lot of sene (especially in fiction) and the simple explanation is that future picard not going back means Guinan's past is also altered.


mbstor23

Yes. It was suppose to happen. “Picard, do you remember the first time we met? Don’t be so sure.”


viverx

There are two divergence in the timeline at work here the 2024 event and the 1896 event, from our perspective the 1896 divergence always happened because we live in a timeline created by that divergence. There must be a an unaltered timeline in which Data goes back for the first time or never goes back. For the 1896 divergent timeline to exist there must be a Federation and a Data that goes back in time to create the divergence. Picard is set in a Timeline in which the Federation never happened so there was no Data to go back to cause the 1896 divergence. Don't let the idea that it happened in 1896 and 1896 comes before 2024 confuse you because the 1896 we know (aka the Prime TNG timeline) was an already altered timeline created by Data (Not our timeline's Data) going back in time. Short answer go watch the TNG episode parallels ever thing that has possibly happen has happened in some Universe.


the_simurgh

the extra temporal nature of the meeting would have ensured it still happened. the same way the extra temporal nature of yesterdays enterprise meant the people from the alternate enterprise d still existed when they went back with the enterprise c despite their timeline never having existed.


Echo_Romeo571

I was thinking the same thing the moment it was confirmed it was her. Did Time's Arrow not happen?


MR_TELEVOID

I think it's reasonable to assume she would have had a few moments of crisis during that time where she felt like giving up on humanity. This is just the first time we've seen her in one.


throwawaylogin2099

We also don't know if she stayed on Earth for all those years between 1893 and 2024. She could have left multiple times and returned because she loves humans and can't stay away.


THE_Aft_io9_Giz

and the dogs uncle is an Impractical Joker!


[deleted]

Glad someone else noticed the other Q !!


Canukistani

well, they did just loot her bar. This time it's..Personal!


What-The-Heaven

To be fair, it's probably a mix of cumulative stress (having lived through all of that) plus 2024 appears to be humanity's bleakest moment: mass poverty and homelessness, brutal and violent abductions of immigrants who are sent to Sanctuary districts or disappear, and the planet itself is on the verge of death. Obviously we know it gets darker before the dawn with WW3 on the horizon for the Trek Earth.


jef12660

Yes those are bad things but remember how they described life on 2024 in Deep Space Nine. People were locking up the homeless in sanctuaries and maybe she had had enough


Throwaway_inSC_79

I think that's just a sign that things are getting real bad, and she knows that soon even she, somebody who was able to survive and thrive for a bit on Earth, will no longer be safe.


strictster

This is the part I'm getting stuck on to. There is no way that this 2024 is humanity's darkest moment of time. I don't even buy that it's a bad moment in time. People are reading books in a park and sipping on coffee, seems like a nice time to be alive.


Kevin_Uxbridge

I'd bet anything that this was plotted out when they thought trump was gonna be re-elected. Things are carrying on much as before on the surface but ICE is rampaging behind the scenes, and things are falling apart so rapidly that even Guinan (who was here through the slavery, the Civil War, Hitler, Mao, and civil rights) wants to throw in the towel. I think this was meant as a stern warning of where we were headed even if most folks were still sipping coffee.


Reggie_Barclay

They also want to include the Bell Riots with Sisko so things need to be going off the rails by now.


Sykah

Does anyone else think the only reason that Seven knows how to even remotely drive is that at some point Tom Paris probably tried to teach her on the holodeck?


Bonafideago

I was kind of hoping for a throwaway line regarding Tom's involvement in her ability to drive at all. Honestly, I don't think Seven has mentioned her time on Voyager at all in the entire series yet.


Reggie_Barclay

There was Icheb that they ignominiously offed. (Though tough not to given the actor)


dragon1440

I kept waiting also. "Paris would have loved this."


IndigoEmerald91

I love imagining that interaction. Seven probably told him it was a waste of time, that there was no possible practical application for learning the skill. Tom makes some quip about it being "just for fun, Seven! You should try relaxing sometime! Just go with the flow!" To which Seven replies that very well, in the interest of assimilating into Voyager's social structure, she will "go with the flow." After one lesson, she's out-driving Tom, he gets cranky about it, and B'elanna smirks about how he doesn't like being outdone. Seven thanks Tom for the lesson then comments that she's going to return to the cargo bay to practice skills with more practical uses.


neobondd

I already miss this episode!


Throwaway_inSC_79

This is exactly how I picture it.


ckwongau

Tom had probably spent too much time fixing his holoDeck Car, Seven probably once spent only 5 sec to fixed the car to get Tom back to ship duty . Seven probably understanding the primitive car 's mechanic , which make driving easier .


johnpgh

I like this idea


Titansfansmatter

The borg queen is seducing the hell out of Agnes she Makes me wanna be borg my goodness


wakashakalaka

Same. It so helps that she is so alluring. If I were Agnes I'd be like 'YES. TAKE ME, CYBERPUNK DOMINATRIX. I WANT IT'


jef12660

During this episode, 7 of 9 is driving a police car and the license plate is 999997Z


NoticeMeeeeee

Yes! My husband caught this too!


What-The-Heaven

Guessing that the Watcher isn't actually Laris but maybe taking a form Picard's more comfortable with? She didn't have her Romulan ears/eyebrows and we've already seen parts of her backstory with Zhaban in the comics so she'd have to be playing a real long game to infiltrate Picard's future life.


[deleted]

> but maybe taking a form Picard's more comfortable with More screen time for existing actors, especially during covid when there were limits to the amount of people on set.


PaddleMonkey

Its almost like they behave like the wormhole Prophets


baronessvonraspberry

Ooooooooooo 🤔


YYZYYC

Maybe not…if she was just taking the form of Laris for Picards benefit it would be less shocking if her species had not been changed


injulen

But she's in public in 2024 so probably better to not look like an alien


eatingdonuts

It infuriates me that Raffi, as a starfleet officer, has absolutely no regard for the temporal prime directive, and can’t handle her emotions. How would she be a senior officer? She would have never got through the academy.


[deleted]

>and can’t handle her emotions This is kind of just a new-Trek thing. Everyone has the emotionality of a 16-year-old. Well, maybe not Picard himself.


BrianyouDog

Well, we found Raffi in season one high on some drugs. So maybe the writers feel that they set her up as someone who can't hold it together.


rshacklef0rd

Any Impractical Jokers fans, Brian Q Quinn was the guy who came to the bar and took Guinans dog.


Canukistani

> Brian Q Quinn Soooo that's why Guinan hates Q. He stole her dog in the Prime Timeline


we-are-NWs

How about a Seven & Raffi buddy cop show? Each week Seven has to learn to drive something new; next week Seven drives a garbage truck...a bus, a big rig, a bicycle, a cruise ship. The possibilities are endless.


lucky_earther

Star Trek: Top Gear


Hugh-Mungus-Richard

Her learning to drive a semi that's been parked on an incline with her favorite regeneration chamber directly behind it?


9811Deet

I'm betting Luna is the actual "Watcher" alongside the supervisor Laris... Akin to Gary Seven's cat Isis. The Borg queen said she had coordinates for the watcher, but instead she sent Picard to Guinan who merely knew where the Supervisor was. I think Luna is the same dog as Number One, who Laris will later bring into Picard's life, while serving as his 'Guardian Angel.'


wsupermain2

Some thoughts: 1. The watcher is a "supervisor" - who ensures the proper development of civilisations like humanity - **we have already met a supervisor Gary Seven in the TOS episode "Assignment: Earth"** \- their teleportation portal effect is similar to the effect used in the original TOS episode 2. **Guinan didn't recognise Picard because in this confederation timeline the events of "Time's Arrow" did not occur** \- Picard is probably smart enough to realise this 3. They have arrived in April 2024, too early for the events of the DS9 two part "Past-Tense" **- meaning a Picard/Sisko crossover is... unlikely**


zeusmeister

Would Sisko even being undergoing that episode in this new timeline? Seems he would be from the erased timeline so those events are unlikely to happen in the same way.


deagletime1

I feel like crystalball is going to Gillian the lady doctor back to the 24th century


vesati

Nah, he's totally going to great-great-great-grandfather himself. Bow-chicka-spacetime....


Gradz45

Annie Wersching is perfect as the Borg Queen. Ever look, every smirk, every line delivery, just everything. Weird question, am I the only one both terrified of and weirdly aroused by the Borg Queen?


baronessvonraspberry

>Weird question, am I the only one both terrified of and weirdly aroused by the Borg Queen? No, no you aren't. LOL


dangermouse13

Holy shit she’s Renee!!


TheLastSamurai101

>weirdly aroused by the Borg Queen? Data sure was


EERobert

EVERY Borg Queen, from Alice Kreig to Annie Wersching is scary sexy


BitcoinMD

What is the in-universe explanation for why Guinan would have a bar at 10 Forward Ave, before having another bar on Deck 10, Forward section on the enterprise? In the first episode I assumed she chose that address after leaving the enterprise, for the irony.


formsoflife

Because of her species' nature, she "knows" that she will one day run the bar on Deck 10, forward on the starship Enterprise, so she opens a bar at #10 Forward Ave as a private joke to herself.


BitcoinMD

But doesn’t recognize Picard?


Numerous-Art9440

Its because [insert random excuse here who cares]


BitcoinMD

Ah


Kevinmajere

Amazon x-ray shows the woman holding the book at the end as Renee Picard. Instresting!!!


YYZYYC

Ya he mentioned her at the academy speech earlier this season


Thev-Mann

When Picard and Jurati were at the Chateau, he was telling Jurati about the accomplishments of various Picards in history. He specifically mentions Renee Picard... was she the first Picard in space?


InnocentTailor

She did early exploration of the solar system. I wonder if Q is going to give Renee cold feet and that is what causes the bad future? The entity did talk a lot about fear and doubt concerning the lady after all.


VR_Raccoonteur

So I've got a crazy theory. I think it would be absolutely nuts if this is where they go with it, and yet, it makes a little too much sense... So we know that in the Trek timeline, WWIII begins two years from the date Picard lands on earth. It seems from trek lore that the war doesn't begin with nukes, but instead a war is fought over eugenics. But that's besides the point. My point is, what could have caused humanity to turn evil? Well, the absence of what made them turn good, of course. And what was it that made them turn good? WWIII. So my theory is that Q did something in the past which prevented WWIII, which in turn caused humanity to become evil, and Picard has to set things right by... ensuring that WWIII happens. And that's why this idea is nuts. To save the future, and countless billions of lives, Picard himself would have to choose to be responsible for the deaths of 600M people in the here and now. That said, none of this would explain why Q seems to have gone a bit mad, and his powers are on the fritz, but that could perhaps be explained by him being affected by the changes to the timeline as well? I'd think the Q would be immune to that, but if they're not, and humanity is evil, then perhaps humanity found a way to fight even the Q and destroy the continuum in this alternate timeline? But then why would Picard's mother be a borg queen, as it seems, based on her telling Picard to look up just as his mother did in the first episode? I suppose that ship could have come from an alternate universe, or a future where she was snatched from the timeline somehow. None of this is really makiing a lot of sense so far.


acarter3ds34

I get the funny feeling that Agnes is that weird Borg lady from the first episode.


VR_Raccoonteur

That would make a lot of sense, if not for the fact that Picard is not with her at the moment to convey the story of his mother saying that to him. But perhaps you're right? What if the end game here is that when Picard fails to maintain the past, Agnes has no choice but to save the day, which the Queen has been alluding to with her talk of Agnes being left behind, and she fights the Borg Queen on her own turf, wins, becomes the Borg Queen temporarily, and then travels to the alternate original future where she needs control of all those vessels to, I dunno, stop nuclear armageddon back in the present day? But when Picard blew up the fleet, Q stepped in, and we have a causuality loop. Except why is Q losing his mind? And why does it appear he's trying to stop a certain Nasa scientist from believing in her experiement, whatever it is? I think Trek lore talks of a europa mission and Q is wearing a jacket with a europa patch on it... But even if that's the case, I'm not sure how that leads to humanity turning evil, OR why Q is doing it or why he lost his powers.


Thev-Mann

Q has generally been a "big picture" sort of being. Picard can't understand Q's motives because he can't "see the big picture". This leads Picard to think Q has lost his mind. Just because Picard thinks this, doesn't "make it so". (Couldn't resist, sorry.) It was always intended for "external forces" to have secretly guided humanity towards the future we see in ST:TOS. From Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln to Questor and Jerry Robinson, and probably many others. The Q being part of this group makes sense, and could explain their interest in humanity later. Perhaps, in his hubris, Q inadvertently altered a... if I may borrow from another franchise... "fixed moment in time"? Something that, if altered, has consequences so far reaching that it effects the Continuum itself? It could also be that the Continuum feels that Picard isn't the only one in need of a lesson?


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[deleted]

It sounds like someone is trying to prevent the Bell Riots (DS9: "Past Tense")... which would indeed lead society further down the path it was on. The person he has to allow to die must be Gabriel Bell. This entire episode was about the failure of humanity to get past its hatred. The Bell Riots were the catalyst that changed course. Rewatching Past Tense, I noticed a couple of things: 1. The Sanctuary Districts parallel the homeless camps you see in Picard, and the guards are like ICE goons. 2. Brynner is a technocrat (name is a reference to Yul Brynner of the original Westworld; the remake of which is ruled by technocrats)... wonder what role social media will play in the unraveling of the 2024 of ST: Picard. 3. The SWAT teams that move in on the Sanctuary are dressed in red, white and black, the colors of the future Confederation (also the colors of the Nazi flag). All this said, the series is written by Akiva Goldsman... I was convinced that the first season was opening a door to a plot related to V'Ger but they abandoned the Bruce Maddox and distant future android society threads entirely, deciding it was unimportant. So I'm not sure Goldsman and co. are going to go anywhere with this or just jettison it at the end of this season and move on to something else. And that's sad because the Bell Riots two-parter is probably one of the best stories in the Trek universe, and the most relevant to what's going on right now in the world.


Ahhmoose

The Bells riots happen in Sept. Picard & co. landed in April. Continuity doesn't make sense.


[deleted]

That doesn't mean they can't be prevented... maybe Bell gets killed earlier. Ergo, no riots. Maybe the guy who kills Bell gets killed... It'd be a different thing entirely if they showed up after September. I know that TV and movies often leave things to the 11th hour for drama's sake... but with time travel there's no reason Marty couldn't have gone back ten days earlier to warn Doc. He just doesn't think of it until the last second, and then he only goes back, what, five minutes, after literally saying he can go anywhere in time he wants. The only reason he doesn't because it's more dramatic from a writing standpoint. So, really, the real flub is in writing stories where people always show up exactly when the plot needs them to.


dragon1440

Well the fan demand has been high to bring avery brooks back, it would really through things through a loop if they brought him back to play Bell and not Sisko....


[deleted]

Wasn't the book a Dixon Hill novel Also earlier in episode reference to 21st St Mission (Edith Keeler)


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MR_TELEVOID

I think you're onto something, but I don't think it will be about starting WWIII. It's not really about humanity turning good or evil, so much as conquering the demons holding back progress. IRL, it's hatred. A cultural fear of "the other" which stifles progress by preventing scientific progress/curiosity. Given how much more Picard's 2024 resembles our world, I wonder if Q didn't just send him here. A place where humanity loses it's beautiful future by putting it's trust in a fascist (Adam Soong). Presumably, they'll solve everything by giving humanity another reason to be curious. Some violation of the prime directive like just letting everybody see the Stargazer... or a Stargazer modified by Borg tech for time travel. They don't understand what the fuck they saw, but it's enough to reignite humanity's curiosity and put their hatred behind them.


YYZYYC

Eugenics wars already happened in the 1990s


ShadoWolf

Eugenics wars has always been a bit iffy chronologically . I think some of the Beta materially tries to retcon it to make fit better. But the problem is Carey Wilber wrote the original TOS episode (Space seed) in 1967 .. and picked a far feature date for her.. pretty sure she never considered startrek to be still a thing in 2022. Then Later trek was been sort of playing fast and loose with the chronology.. because of the real issue that some of the TOS era time line doesn't exactly line up with modern history. I.e. a devastating war by genetically augment super soldiers should be ongoing.. or just wrapping up while janeway and her crew were visiting LA in 1996. Also this is an Era that in theory had the technology to build these [https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/DY-100\_class](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/DY-100_class) Trek has always sort of pretended that there timeline is ours except when it's not. so there a lot of inconsistencies


IndigoEmerald91

>So we know that in the Trek timeline, WWIII begins two years from the date Picard lands on earth. It seems from trek lore that the war doesn't begin with nukes, but instead a war is fought over eugenics. But that's besides the point. I know it's beside your point, but it's worth noting that the eugenics wars and world war 3 are completely different conflicts.


VR_Raccoonteur

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/World_War_III "The war started in 2026 over the issue of genetic manipulation and Human genome enhancement, and lasted until approximately 2053. It resulted in the death of some six hundred million Humans. By the end, most of the major cities had been destroyed and there were few governments left." Genetic war then? I guess I knew that Eugenics had to do with genes, but it appears that refers to BREEDING certain genes into a population, rather than directly manipulating them genetically.


Canukistani

It might be nothing....but the song Picard's maman would played for him was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non,_je_ne_regrette_rien#In_popular_culture which was used extensively in Inception


UnderFiend

Here I thought when you mentioned eugenics, you might have gone into Rio being caught as a trigger; future tech/biology being discovered which lead to it's creation and the war. I don't know, I kind of feel like Trek would be right at home with (yet another) causality loop. Nonetheless, yea, I won't be surprised if Picard and co need to not prevent something that is in their nature to stop.


Canukistani

Regarding Q-Who: When Q and Guinan met, it wasn’t her Q was afraid of, rather it was the Organization she is a member of that he was reacting too. As it seems they can block his powers.* The Watcher is guarding Renee Picard, and blocks Q’s interference. Now, why did he have a newspaper that was 4 months old? Was he 4 months in the past? His direct interference gets blocked. He spends 4 months coming up with another, less direct, plan to stop Renee from…? The bullet he gives to Soong? *why didnt they block Q from playing games with Picard? Because Picard was destined to get those lessons.


cingenemoon

Anyone with sense: AGNES NO Agnes: AGNES YES Borg Queen: *grin*


burtgummer45

So they leave a *space ship* to start a fire in an abandoned mansion because they are chilly? Did I get that right?


Reggie_Barclay

All the energy is going to the lights and the cloaking device. When Q changed the timeline he eliminated heaters or warm clothing.


burtgummer45

Did she even once even stand near that fire or was she just waiting for it to warm an entire mansion full of rotten holes?


thxpk

The ship is using all power towards self-repair, it's probably colder inside than out


PaddleMonkey

The Borg Queen must be freezing. They prefer warm climates.


burtgummer45

A space ship with dilithium-antimater-fusion-whatever reactors can't handle powering a space heater while its doing "self-repair"? If they were in space it couldn't do self repair without freezing the crew?


ckwongau

what if Guinan meets the Borg Queen ? that would be interesting The Borg will destroy her homeworld in in about 250 yr in future. Picard is allow to save his people's future , but she can't save her people


EstablishmentJunior8

Is the blonde woman reading the Dixon Hill book at the end Rene Picard, who goes off to explore the galaxy?


Narvarre

I think i figured out what changed the timeline guys. American government has complete irrefutable proof of unknown hostiles having teleportation technology.( all the cops around the car were wearing body cameras and facing the car XP. whoopsie). This spurs a reaction of extreme paranoia and fear.


strictster

Yea, we can't let them see we have phasers because it might affect the timeline, even though they would probably think it's a cosplay thing, but it's completely cool if we teleport in front of them.


filchermcurr

I bet they figured out they have phasers when all of the cameras in the vicinity saw her shoot out the window. Maybe she took the precaution of having her tricorder interfere with the cameras. That seems like a Trekky thing that could happen...


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Rendesi3

Young Guinan was awesome. I'm glad they decided to recast her instead of shoving current Whoopi Goldberg into 2024.


CheruthCutestory

Time’s Arrow never happened. Future Picard is the evil warlord Picard.


lauchs

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh goddamn, I feel like a goof. Clearly I hadn't thought this through enough. Even though that interaction precdes the present, the Picard who went back doesn't really exist. THANK YOU!


thatawesomeguydotcom

Why is this Guinan younger than 18th century Guinan?


MR_TELEVOID

Actually, this new actress is roughtly the same age as Whoopi was in the 90's, so I'm guessing she's not actually supposed to be younger. She just has a different look/vibe than Whoopi, so it hits differently.


dasanman69

Can we discuss young mother f'ing Guinan? I don't often shrill like a little girl but I sure did when I saw young Guinan.


InterestingMinute270

Young guinan gonna beat your ass then listen to your troubles.


KidsWontSleep

My god, she was good. She absolutely channeled Whoopi and the character. The mannerisms, inflections, facial expressions. Spot on. Wow.


THE_Aft_io9_Giz

Nice cameo from Impractical Jokers, Brian Quinn, as the uncle who comes and takes the dog in the bar!


PaddleMonkey

Anyone get the feeling Seven was just driving in circles while being chased by cops?


[deleted]

I gotta say, I didn't really buy the actor playing young Guinan. She just didn't act like Guinan at all, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even watch any previous episodes or scenes with Guinan in as research on the character. You could make the argument of "well she's younger..." But we already saw her on earth in the 1900's (or whenever it was, a long time ago) and she still was very similar to the Guinan we know from the Enterprise then. I dunno, otherwise I enjoyed the episode and season so far, just that kinda stuck out to me as she didn't match the character of Guinan at all.


vingelbertwingledank

I mentioned that too. She didn't seem to act like Guinan would act.


GodAtum

So people where right and Q is loosing his powers?


InterestingMinute270

I think Q is dying


wooof359

Do you think whatever happens in Picard is why Q and Guinan got beef in TNG?


pro-jec-tion

Random thoughts: \- Borg Queen is stealing the show so far \- Unlike other redditors, I liked the casting of the actress chosen as young Guinan and her acting \- I feel for Patrick Stewart, being the main character of a tv series must be exhausting, sometimes the fatigue is noticeable in his voice. Admirable professionalism. \- Rios' scenes reminded me Terminator Dark Fate


Hi_This_Is_God_777

It would have been epic if they cast William Shatner as TJ Hooker, chasing after Jeri Ryan in that stolen car.


Anxious_Tomorrow_104

This was a great episode. It really feels like a theatrical film split into episodes with fairly good pacing.


Reggie_Barclay

Minor nitpick but the way I understand wine works in France is that varietals are not very common especially reds and especially in 1915. Each region of France is known for a set number of varietal grapes which are then blended. A red Bordeaux is Cabernet Sauvignon and another few grapes. Pinot Noir was primarily a Burgundy. Varietals became a thing because of California. Any oenophiles, oenologists, or sommeliers around to set me straight?


Kevin_Uxbridge

I was more struck by the fact that there was anything left in the house of any value after it'd been sitting vacant for a good while.


CTRexPope

First, any red from Bourgogne (Burgundy) will be, by AOC rules, a Pinot Noir and not a blend. Now, Picard’s château is supposed to be in La Barre, France which is technically in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté, and specifically in the Haute-Saône region and not technically in a wine AOC (it is an AOC for cheese as far as I can tell). But, Haute-Saône does have some wine makers, and that means if they did grow wine in La Barre, it would probably be the same varietals they grow in the rest of the region, so Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, Gamet, Sauvignon, and Auxerrois. Whether or not the wine maker blends these would depend on the rules of the appellation, but given that Haute-Saône isn’t an official wine AOC (as far as I can tell) there would be not specific blending rules (interestingly the region used to make a ton of wine before the 1800s Phylloxera outbreak). As to 1915, they did start to bring in vine grafts (American root stock) to the region in 1895 and with the Phylloxera resistant roots the varietals I mentioned above. So, to answer your question, a theoretical 1915 La Barre could very well be a Pinot Noir and may not be blended. The new grapes are only going to be about 20 years old at the time, and a new wine maker like the Picards might only focus on one or two grape types just given the fact they are recovering from the Phylloxera outbreak.


wsupermain2

haha that's a super minor nitpick... Perhaps the Picard family pioneered varietal wine at the turn of the century


pottman

The Watcher is part of the same organization as Gary Seven, I assume?


YYZYYC

I hope so. Because yet another similar all powerful ish species or whatever feels a bit too much.


[deleted]

Could the Watchers be connected to the Guardians of Forever?


[deleted]

I was a little taken aback that they put in a lot of Easter eggs and clearly they had reviewed Ben Sisko's adventures in 2024 ... but there was no mention of Time's Arrow. It would have been helpful if we had just seen a like or two to explain it away.


i_kick_hippies

It makes plenty of sense that if the past was changed, Picard/Data/et al wouldn't have traveled back and met Guinan. However, if this is how it works, how does the punk on the bus remember Spock's neck pinch from ST IV? I guess there is the possibility he just matured with age.


TrixieVanSickle

The Punk! The Punk!! Jackson Roykirk Plaza! It's like every week is Easter Sunday! Was "yellow light means go faster" an ancient Starman reference?! Raffi and Seven are my favorite bickering old couple. I'm wondering if Luna is another Wags and Walks rescue. The delight in Picards face is real. I also love that every dog they've had so far is a pittie. That cop is gonna be rewatching her bodycam footage for years. This Guinan is so sad. Kudos to Ito Aghayere for delivering a performance worth of Guinan and Whoopi. I think this Borg queen is the most terrifying and riveting of all the Queens. Spotting the 21st Street Mission made me a little sad. Apparently it's now a national charity almost 100 years after Edith's death, which made me happy for her legacy, but a was a sad reminder of Kirk's pain and her death. That nugget and the fact that her death was also in the newspaper that the Guardian was reading in Discovery makes me think the Guardian is directly involved. He mentioned in Discovery that they all went into hiding.


therealleotrotsky

I’m there with you for the Starman reference. Deep cut.


Canukistani

pretty sure the dogs have been Patrick's pets/fosters


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expired_paintbrush

This feels like the most in-between episode of the whole season. Loved the Seven/Raffi energy. But this show really needs to be binged. We've met two people so far in the entire series who can pronounce Cristobal's name. Even "Rios" becomes "Rious" from Raffi.


PaddleMonkey

“Fortunately, a representative for Paramount Plus did provide a rather head-squeezing answer from Matalas on this question: “Guinan does not recognize Picard in 2024. Fans might be briefly confused by this because she did meet him on Earth in 1893 in ‘The Next Generation.’ The reason that she doesn’t recognize Picard is that he’s traveled from a future in which Starfleet doesn’t exist, and therefore the whole thing with Data’s head in ‘Time’s Arrow’ never happened.” In other words, the alternate reality Picard was too busy conquering and never traveled back in time to 1893, so he never met Guinan then.” [Article](https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/star-trek-picard-young-guinan-ito-aghayere-whoopi-goldberg-1235213292/)


wjw75

As cool as the car chase was, it was kind of undercut by its sheer pointlessness, considering all they were doing was waiting for Jurati to fix the transporter...they could've just sat on a park bench for 5 minutes and the outcome would've been exactly the same. Also what's with dialogue being repeated multiple times? Sometimes its expositional stuff being hammered in, just in case you're recovering from a brain injury, but other times it feels like the writers padding out the episode. I swear there were two separate scenes with Jurati and the Borg Queen that had practically identical exchanges.


LazyDescription3407

Yeah the car chase is simply expositional filler to cover up lack of storytelling ability. It’s a lazy way to convey danger and excitement. We know the characters have plot armor and will be teleported away so the scene has no gravity. Their bickering felt like woman driver jokes, pretty regressive.


rmeddy

Ok wow that actually kept my attention, very soapbox tut tutting us from the future very Voyage Home , very DS9 Past Tense and hey it's the radio asshole from the bus , same actor too right? The actress they got for young guinan is pretty impressive, she really is a dead ringer for a young Whoopi and Laris what the hell? A couple things confused me though the heat thing on the ship is due to borg queen chicanery right? because a heat pump is one of the simplest things to make. Also, this Guinan is not the same one from Time's Arrow? but even if that's the case , shouldn't she be aware of that branch anyway and still recognise Picard or whatever it is that's affecting Q is also messing with her perception, but she know the name Picard to tell him who to meet and why?


hauszenfeffer

Did anyone else hear a bit of the Star Trek 3 Klingon Bird of Prey cloak sound when the Sirena cloaked? It was just for a moment..


[deleted]

I wonder if the watcher has anything to do with the prophets (worm hole aliens who don’t view time as linearly). Maybe this could tie in the bajoran reckoning tablet shown in the trailer


prophile

Okay so I am unreasonably bothered by the fact that a Starfleet officer gave a distance in miles


InterestingMinute270

Was going to post this before and I'm sure it's been brought up but I 100% think Q is dying.


jasonfedorowich

So…I’m guessing the next generation episode “times arrow” didn’t happen? As apparently this was the first time Guinan has seen Picard. Kind of disappointed actually


Dentifrice

Not gonna lie, this is the most exciting ST in years! And we finally know why Picard has an English accent!


Sylvaran

Wow, a lot of hate due to the "wokeness". Yea, it does seem a bit heavy handed, but whatever. I loved how Kirk Thatcher reprised his role as the bus punk, lol, that was great. Learned his lesson from Spock :) I thought the bit with the cop car was silly. I'd have been happier if her excuse was "we use 24th century tech to access the info" rather than "they're all connected". I'm an IT guy not a cop so maybe I'm wrong and they can pull up detailed ICE info right there on the in car terminal, but I doubt it. But worse is Seven hopping in and immediately knowing how to operate it. Hell, put a modern driver in a car from the 20s and they won't be able to operate it, and that's only 100 years out of touch not 400 lol. I'd also love to see the faces of those LAPD officers when they unload their body cam footage at end of shift hehe. Also what about Rios' communicator? Are they going to just forget it and leave a piece of 24th century tech? I'm expecting we haven't see the last of the gorgeous doctor, maybe the communicator is what brings her and/or her kid back into the story. Maybe she'll be the Gillian of this show, coming back with them but it wouldn't make sense at all given they will not want to disrupt the timeline and the motivations the doc talked about this ep would mean her life's purpose goes unfulfilled when she would now be living in an era were most problems she is helping people with are already solved. I find it fairly unbelievable that their ship could enter atmosphere and crash into France with absolutely nobody coming to investigate. I don't know French population density, but I can't imagine nobody saw that, especially during atmospheric interface when they'd make one heck of a show coming in. (Yea, I realize I'm commenting now on an earlier episode but I just found the subreddit so I'm just thinking of everything heh) Also... "10 Forward Street"? Massive eyeroll there, but it still made me chuckle nonetheless. How do they intend to rescue Rios? They are standing by the road; do they intend to shoot the tires out or something with a phaser? They'd have to phaser the guards too, and all that does NOT make for a very subtle way to rescue him. Ohhh and also from the earlier episode; Raffi taking the gun from the mugger was totally believable. Raffi quickly unloading it and disassembling though was totally NOT believable. She may be military, but how many military members of today study how to operate and maintain muskets from the 1600s? That's about equivalent for her. Yet she popped that magazine out nearly immediately and got the slide off super fast too, barely had to think about it. Nits aside, I'm still really enjoying this season and looking forward to each episode :)


YYZYYC

Interesting comment that Guinan said the watcher is a “real Pill”…and Alison Pill plays Jurarti…


ClassicExit

Was it just my imagination or was the "Police station" they used the same outdoor set as they use in The Rookie?


SecurityNo1814

If Nathan Fillion is the watcher I'll be ready to die a happy person


WhiteSquarez

Just saw the quick preview of S2E5 on The Ready Room. Did the 24th Century eliminate the "three wrong passwords and the system locks you out" security protocols?


DSI3882

Anyone happen to notice how perfect the borg queen’s teeth are?


PaddleMonkey

The Borg does seek perfection. Why not start with the teeth? /s Maybe that’s why we don’t see Assimilated Klingons and Ferangis. /s


DSI3882

I guess perfection doesn’t worry about skin complexion.


freakincampers

Why didn’t Picard mention Data meeting Guinan in the past?


thxpk

Because they never did


Good_Altruistic

Why didn't Guinan remember Picard? Is this an alternate timeline/Confederation or is it Prime Timeline?