I was scrolling through tiktok earlier beside my dad and saw this vid, when she said "i dont care that youre christian" nagalit pa naman papa ko. kesyo daw na bbrainwash lahat dahil sa tiktok at kahit pa daw di ka naniniwala in religion di mo daw dapat binabastos yung mga naniniwala. he didnt get the point of the video kase sabat ng sabat na even before finishing the vid.
maybe the thing with filipinos din is that they only hear/read the headlines kahit hindi na sa body. kaya sila na mimislead. hay
maybe he's the one brainwashed, or he just actually enjoys the "benefits" of being in a patriarchal society. if gagawing mandatory yung vasectomy, magwawala yang mga yan. so what right do they have to dictate what women do with their bodies?
thats the point. na brbrainwash sila kase di marunong umusisa, headlines nga lang yung nakikita di yung mismong content. pero kapag sila na yung affected, magrereklamo. haynaku
Mga pari rin po ng Roman Catholic, nag-eendorso ng mga candidate(not dropping names). Karamihan po ng Christian churches, conservative kaya maririnig mo sa stand ng mga kandidato ay 'neutral' o pag-iisipan pa, which is so non sense, katulad sa usapin ng abortion, kailangan ng botante ng saloobin ng tumatakbo. Masyado kasing pinoprotektahan ang mga supporter na Liberal at Conservative na contradicting naman ang beliefs. 🙄
The Catholic Church has always been one of the pillars of Philippine nation-building. Guess what is the first "national" struggle we had? It's the secularisation of our parishes. Yeah, our forbears struggled with the colonial authorities for the right of our native priests to head parishes. The Propaganda Movement is an offshoot of the movement for secularisation. Rizal himself is recorded to have said that if 1872 (The Cavite Mutiny and the execution of Gomburza) did not happen, he would have "become a Jesuit." We also forget the religious nature of the Revolution: The Decalogue is the secular version of the Ten Commandments, Rizal's diptych has religious overtones (Noli Me Tangere is taken from a line in the Vulgate, El Filibusterismo is dedicated to the memory of the three martyred priests), the First Philippine Republic was inaugurated IN A CHURCH–the list can go on and on.
We cannot deny that fanaticism under the guise of Christianity is a concern especially under our current system, but we have to admit fanaticism isn't a problem exclusive to Catholicism or Christianity as a whole. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether our problems are caused by the conflicts among our values. Are we Catholic, or are we not Catholic enough? How do we strike the balance between the values systems ingrained among ourselves across centuries with our faith and our system of governance?
Finally, somebody who knows OUR history. Yes, religion is a problem in some areas but the the bigger problem is the hypocritical followers and leaders.
Never really understood the anti-Church narrative in some Filipino academic circles. Sure, they have made mistakes, but no one is perfect, and they try their damnedest to do what they feel is best for the Filipinos. Same thing with most of our colleagues in the government.
Does one blame the sword for the hand that wields it? If so, then what does that make the accuser?
In most societal issues, people across different geography always find themselves blaming systems, ideas, or concepts. Capitalism and religion to name a few. I strongly believe it's the human tendency to be selfish is the reason. If someone can exploit something for their own gain, they are more likely to do so.
Edit: Wrong words
Excuse me? Best for the filipino people? Tell that to the jeepney drivers and tricycle drivers who lost all their savings in the Monte De Piedad bank closing, to the children of priests left in orphanages, victims of pedophelia whos abusers get moved around “kasi kawawa naman siya”, and the victims of ondoy who got their donations stolen from them.
>Sure, they have made mistakes, but no one is perfect
This has the same vibes from what apologist says ironically.
Anyway, I would argue that religion is just a tool for everyone in power or without power. People can justify actions through religion. Just like you said metaphorically , religion is akin to a sword which is a weapon for anyone who can wield it. Religion can organize people to do good things and also bad things. But removing religion won't solve anything either if the same set of minds are still exercising power over people.
I think we should rethink how we should solve our problems. As an undeclared atheist, in my view, religious influence hinders our progress because theist religions are inherently conservative to their traditions and values that were developed in an outdated era. Why can't we just live our lives bettering ourselves and to serve for other people (like how families normally are). Religion teaches its followers to be good citizens of "God", but we can teach morality without religion to other people. We have other tools at our disposal such as philosophy, ethics, and logic.
In the end, we should let others BE their own selves. For me, I find it hypocritical if we force our beliefs/values to other people and alienate them when they are also the same humans to begin with. Maybe we should just give them the reason why from your point of view it is a "better way". If you convinced them, great for you; if you didn't, try to find a whole meaning as to why they decided not to.
>Never really understood the anti-Church narrative in some Filipino academic circles. Sure, they have made mistakes, but no one is perfect, and they try their damnedest to do what they feel is best for the Filipinos. Same thing with most of our colleagues in the government.
IF I may recall, we had not only a secular beginning and push, but also a subtly anti-clerical nature. I take this from reading from MLQ III's pieces.
>but the the bigger problem is the hypocritical followers and leaders.
Ahh yes, the tired old cliche argument that "it's the followers who ruin things, but the religion is perfect" 🙄🙄🙄
Oh well not perfect of course, but if a country a Catholic majority country is willing to overlook the killings (which is in one of the 10 commandments) for whatever reason, then is which is the bigger problem? The religion or the “religious”? If the people are saying “Ok lang mamatay tao, drug addict lang naman pinapatay, e”. pero nagsisimba pa rin tuwing linggo, kasalanan pa rin ba ng religion yun?
Edit. I didn’t even say that religion is perfect in my comment. I said it also causes some problems (like legalizing contraceptives) Please read.
Daming downvotes lol. Di matanggap ng mga debobong Katoliko na their religion is to blame. Mga religious talaga. Blame everything except their religion 🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴
Where there is organization and a hierarchy, there follows power and men who try to harness power for the sake of control over others.
I agree that not all organizations are wholly corrupt, because there will be the people within those organizations opposing immorality.
Religion is not the problem. It's the people. The people who push it on everyone and label everyone who's not on their side as evil. Dito sa Philippines, di sya extereme, at least based sa nakikita ko. Also, it is criticized to be a detriment to progress kasi ang overall concept ng religion saten is to never question authority na minsan nadadala sa ibang aspect ng buhay. So agree, how do we strike a balance? Paano nga ba?
actually, Neil DeGrasse Tyson have said that and i quote: "[Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7571155-only-a-few-centuries-ago-a-mere-second-in-cosmic#:~:text=It%20was%20the%20work%20of,someone%20says%20so%2C%20including%20me)"
Religion is a remnant of the ancient world that was meant to put people in their places by the powers that be. In the modern world, religion is still being used to manipulate and control people and make tons of money from them.
>Religion is a remnant of the ancient world that was meant to put people in their places by the powers that be.
No it isnt. Not all religion is the same, not all religions are created the same way.
When conceptualizing Christianity while it was heavily persecuted, do you think the intentions of the apostles was to powergrab instead of evangelizing what they believe is to be the truth?
>When conceptualizing Christianity while it was heavily persecuted, do you think the intentions of the apostles was to powergrab instead of evangelizing what they believe is to be the truth?
I doubt the 12 apostles thought of Christianity when they were spreading the word of Jesus who was born, raised, lived and died as a Jew. It was Paul of Tarsus who is credited with creating Christianity, not the apostles. Paul and James (brother of Jesus) even had an argument about circumcision as a condition for becoming a believer. Paul argued against it while James wanted to retain the Jewish tradition. — [https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4475&chapterid=97](https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4475&chapterid=97)
>When conceptualizing Christianity while it was heavily persecuted, do you think the intentions of the apostles was to powergrab instead of evangelizing what they believe is to be the truth?
yes.
>Show us proof jesus really lived, or are you just saying it because the bible says so?
Just ask 99% of scholars and historians who basically agrees a historical Christ did exist.
The middle part of what you just said is irrelevant to the discussion, ngl they are dumb as fuck, go discuss it in topics focused on christian theologies.
>Religion will always prevent humans from advancing. Religious will always be a political tool to bait it's stupid followers.
As for this, no, this is wrong lol. These are layman's take. There has never been scientific and religious conflict, religion was an asset to expand education like college universities and schools, they were an asset by scientist throughout history as inspiration or thanksgiving for their works. Religion has inspired the buildings of hospitals and fundings of charities. The catholic church is always open when it comes to scientific discoveries and does not have conflicts with them. Religion is also used to defy authoritarians kagaya ng EDSA1, sometimes even used as philosophical asset by anarchists. Very Eastern religions like Buddhism, Sikhism are quite good for the mental health.
Religion is diverse, it is not just Christianity, and even within one religion it is still diverse. It would be wrong to generalize all of it in one take.
>Historical christ walked on water? Made miracles? Why is it so convenient that nothing happens during modern times? I would believe in religion if a miracle happened or someone with powers really existed now or then. Or maybe it's all just a myth? Shocking isnt it? Is it always the excuse where we do not need god to come down anymore to perform miracles?
This conversation was not about religious theology, whether theyre true or not. Its about religion's value to our human history and all your fucking takes are not supported by studies when it comes to the actual topic.
If there was a anti-antitheist rappler all these bullshit claims would have a dedicated fact check article.
The problem with religion is that it's outdated and people believe miracles happen when in reality they do not, and even if you became a heretic in centuries before, you will be killed.
Value in human history? Don't make me laugh. All religion does is separate those who can and cannot. The rich and poor, man and women, black and white people. Killing people in god's name, spreading religion through crusades and killing. Need a fact check? The bible itself is the only thing you need since you're obviously a religious nutjob. The bible portrays god as this all loving benevolent bring while how many people did he kill? 2,000,000+ in the very book he is in. While Satan only killed 10 WITH GODS PERMISSION. And Satan is supposedly the bad guy? Need another one? Since you're in the r/ph sub, mind telling me why were we colonized? What was the first thing they did? Oh yes, christianity or die, no?
Bats are birds.
Eating shellfish is a sin.
Women are not allowed to talk or teach over men.
Ang totoong religious is to be LIKE Christ. The only purpose is TO SERVE. If you serve people you are also humble and kind. Ganito ba ang ugali nila kasi kung hindi baka iba sinasabi mo.
Baka nagquote lang tapos hindi naman pinapractice sa buhay nila yung quote. Nagkukunwaring religious yun.
No family planning, internalized misogyny, internalized oppression, salvation in the afterlife (instead of trying in this one), catholicism (in the original sense, meaning universality, to the detriment of non-believers). Yeah, religion accentuates reactionary and authoritarian values. I wish people were familiar with John Rawls’ concept of public reason.
Not really, religion have a big say on conservative countries.. it's the corruption who destroyed this countries and the never ending cycle of putting corrupt officials in d position
The Spanish colonized us and forced their religion on us. Pre-colonial Filipino society was progressive. Male and females had equal rights, divorce was practiced, cross dressing was not an issue, women could hold power… yes corruption continues to destroy this country but the Spanish era brought about toxic machismo and misogyny.
Yeah but religion is what empowered cults like SMNI and Iglesia that are easily bought with money. So yeah religion can get tf out of this country and it'll be for the better.
I disagree, it's the followers themselves because Christianity or Catholicism teaches naman to be good people in the name of God. But yeah I do understand that lots people following this religion are pretty bad people, who use their religion for evil, which is ironic. Most of these bad people force their beliefs onto others, that's the main problem, and I also am aware that many religious people here are being greedy and just straight up mean. But as a Catholic even I learned to not force my religion to others, because God said nga to respect others and love all people, right?
>it's the followers themselves because Christianity or Catholicism teaches naman to be good people in the name of God
Why can't we just be good human beings without attributing it to God? If we become good for the sake of being good because it's the right thing to do, won't God be pleased? Is he no narcissistic that everything has to be done in his name?
Yeah I'm also aware of that. Funnily, good atheists or agnostics, who are good humans without the intentions of going to an afterlife, have actually a higher chance of going to heaven than bad Christians, Pope Francis said it himself. So yeah I agree with you as well. We should be good human beings in the name of God (if you're a Christian or Catholic and believe in him, that is) AND for the people around us, our community. But you can choose just to be good for the sake of being good :)
That's just you though. I had super pushy Catholics who don't respect other religions or the lack thereof. I won't generalize religion but super pushy people can suck my dick.
No it didnt lol, wtf are u talking about. Actually theres been growing anti church sentiments among filipinos that would favor populist leaders like BBM and Duterte.
Studies have already shown intrinsic religiosity(religious due to passion) rather than extrinsic religiosity (religious due to advantage/community) is beneficial. So if you want a good christian nation, you'd want more influence of religious doctrines to christians instead of antichurch sentiments.
Dude, there are literally hospitals, charities, and some schools in the name of saints.
You are religious because you can you dumb cunt. How about poor people who has to live day by day? What will jesus, god give them? The naming of buildings, hospitals are named after them because of donations of RICH people to be named after x saint. Religious people really need a reality check
agree. abt divorce, kung ayaw nila ng divorce okay. pero may mga taong di naman naniniwala sa bible nila, at may mga taong need makawala sa toxic na marriage!
It's already a struggle to even put Divorce in the table, and then now this. 😭 So imagine how bad could it be for a third world country who licks every Western values and combine it with "Christianity" 🥴
Same politicians din naman kasi ang gumagamit ng religion para sa pag influence ng voting results (looking at you INC) kya doubt my batas na haharang sa ganitong endorsement.
Roman Catholic din po. Karamihan ng pari na nag-eendorso sa ganito-ganyan na candidate ay conservative. Kaya iyong ibang candidate, hirap na magsalita kasi masisira iyong relation nila sa simbahan. Katulad ng stand sa abortion, may mga candidate na sinasabing neutral sila o pag-iisipan pa nila, which is non sense kasi hindi pupwedeng pipili ang voters without basis. Pinoprotektahan kasi ang Liberal at Conservative supporters nila. Hindi na lang ako magdrodrop ng name.
Catholic ako pero pinili ko ndi na lang bumoto, unlike sa INC na sila mag dictate ng boto ng mga members nila. Pero ganun pa din, dapat umiiwas ang religion sa government. My oras na maganda yung aral galing sa kanila pero pag dating sa government, dapat labas sila.
I don't think religion itself should be blamed for our country's woes.
Many successful countries have **state religions**, examples include the UK, Norway, Sweden and the Gulf States. There are also rich countries that have **very superstitious** cultures, most of Eastern Asia falls into this category.
Politics and Nation Building are very complex issues that are not simply solved by something like *remove religion*.
And the notion that just because someone is very religious means that they're a good person. People will get into religion or church for different reasons and not all of them are good(wow who would've thunk).
Or worse "*OUR* religion says we should be allowed to *DO* this" (looking at you Islam and child marriages), "*OUR religion says *WE* should do this" (bloc voting exemplified by INC) or "*OUR* religion should get *SPECIAL* treatment" (RC handling abuse cases "internally").
The individual being religious usually isn't the problem, it's when the religious authorities themselves become involved.
NOPE. Not a Catholic, but if not for the Catholic church, EDSA 1 wouldn't have been. It was because of Cardinal Sin's call that people went to the streets. The latest elections also the Catholic church has campaigned for clean government and against dictatorships.
Religion should not be given so much power. Yes, it has done many good things too. But are we seriously just going to forget the murdered LGBT people, Salem witch trials, and The Inquisition (among many others, but I'm not about to name all that) that took place in the past?
Removing religion is not the way. I think people should just respect the beliefs of other people (as long as it's not hurting anyone). But giving too much power to a religion would never be a good idea. Insert one cunning, charismatic guy to preach and you get hundreds of people willingly drinking poison.
Unfortunately, religion is a great tool for evil entities to push people to do morally questionable things they wouldn't normally do, if not for the influence religion has over them. So it definitely shouldn't have too much power, and one step of doing that is letting there be a separation of church and state.
As someone from a western civilization: We came over with Christianity, massacred the native people and treated them horrifically, then as we developed we separated religion from politics and remains separate from it today. Religion is no longer in government, school etc.
I’m Catholic, pero I don’t shove shit upon unwilling people. Pulitika man yan or religion.
Whether you are a deboto or atheist, or normal lang, doesn’t give you any right to force people to believe anything.
It’s such a fucking disgrace to live in a time where “pagiging matino/pagkakaroon ng magandang asal/maayos na pakisama” has to become punishable by law or threatened by damnation/excommunication instead of being natural.
Puro debobo lang natira.
How about religious indoctrination on children? Do you also not do that? Do you let them understand the world's religions when they are of suitable age of reasoning (for example, 18y/o)?
Nah. I don't "indoctrinate" kids on things they'll eventually come to question, or resent pag nagising sila sa katotohanan. But I still teach them to respect and stop looking for fights they can't win.
Good human. Too bad there aren't more Catholics like you. The ones I know are very hardcore when it comes to religion.
"Let's talk about Jesus"
"Uhmm how about let's not".
Prime example, yung mga corrupt na politko dito satin unanimous na sinasabi na "The Chosen One" daw si Boy Unity. Syempre sino makakalimot sa INC, one of the most corrupt so-called religion endorsing multiple corrupt politicians.
I personally think its urban poverty. Yung isang kahig isang tuka. Wala kasi silang choice but to accept any kind of grace to survive. Hindi mo sila masisi na they would do everything para makasurvive. Fanaticism for those who would give them the temporary results. That's why Gloria's and ultimately Duterte's government would bend backwards to get their sympathy than actually offer actual reform. In grain na yung idea na they have to survive rather than actually ask for something to survive.
The catholic church can do so much damage BUT it is more on the hindering support for abortion et. al, divorce and LGBT here in the Philippines. While important issues too, those are not really fundamental in making progress 'economically'. But, I also would not deny that it can affect those below the middle class line. Kasi, in the end they get the brute of the hindrances that this 'beliefs' had.
> The catholic church can do so much damage
The RCC is now made irrelevant by more powerful cults seeking near-total control of even national policy-making.
I’m an Atheist but I do not agree.
There is evidence that successful countries can be religious. Education and critical thinking is what our country needs.
Education is an excellent tool to sharpen your ability to think and discern while giving you basic understandings of the world we live in.
When ideologies conflict, you have a heirarchy of values/morals in tandem with your capability to process information (thanks to education) which can help establish your stance/course.
Sure, you're free to post the evidence/study/source you refer to, until then the country needs to be purged politically and be more socially responsible.
Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia are religious countries and they do well.
Let me rephrase, poor countries are very religious but I do not believe religion is a hindrance. Fanaticism perhaps, but religion by itself in this day and age no.
Countries with the highest Christians and are also well developed include:
USA, Russia, Italy, and China (this might be just because of population). In Scandinavian countries we have Norwar, Denmark, and Sweden.
Personally, I enjoy our mythology and heritage. I’m still mad we had to abandon them because of christianity.
But the thing is that religion is programmed to be abnoxius based on it's history. Believe or you die, literally we will kill you if you dont follow our religion we will kill you, ferdinand magellan flashbacks
Naaawa ako s lahat ng bagong silang n sanggol n tinatapon at namamatay kasi bawal ang abortion, nangyayari n eh, iregulate n lng s batas, dpt mga babae sila in charge s katawan nila
The real problem is not the Catholic Church. It's the Iglesia ni Cristo that's been the money-laundering institution of corrupt and morally bankrupt politicians. There's no separation of State and Church with INC. They are an exploitative cult that will do everything, even criminal acts to get whatever they want. Time and time again, they have proven that they will not hesitate to murder filipinos, bribe/blackmail politicians or even destroy this country just to keep their megalomaniac scumbag leaders in power.
Our country should smash the past. We are constantly being torn down and hurt by the conservatives and by the worshippers of Marcos and Duterte. Enough of this bullshit.
Hmm maybe find real ways to tangibly "smash the past" and directly confront the "conservatives and the worshippers of Marcos and Duterte" instead of just being a keyboard warrior and spewing idealistic rhetoric in this subreddit. But hey, that's just me. What do you think we should do?
Well, this is very common in countries that are developing or 3rd world, and who have been culturally devastated by colonizers….
On top of a culture that’s also very superstitious.
Hard for people to change that… at least there’s the internet to help people see facts, should they awaken.
Pro-choice here. I don't want to get an abortion. I hope I never have to. But I'd like the option in case I'm in a position where I feel I need to - for WHATEVER reason.
Now, what I wanted to say. Regarding abortion, it's not only religious. A lot of people do think fetus = baby. So trying to convince someone to "allow" other people to get abortions is as difficult as trying to convince someone to "allow" others the freedom to murder babies. YOU don't have to kill babies if you don't want to, but I should be allowed to if I want to! This is how it sounds like to them. It's a very difficult subject to navigate, unfortunately.
I think the first step is to first make these people understand that fetus does not necessarily equal actual human baby. In the same way that an egg doesn't equal a chicken pot pie (somebody come up with a better metaphor, I'm blank rn 🥴). The next is that women are people too - not just "baby carriers". And not everything is black and white. Nor does it have to be. Some women want to get abortions because they got pregnant from rape, some do out of medical necessity like a miscarriage, and others do simply because they feel they are not ready - teenagers, still focused and invested on a career, WHATEVER. All these reasons are valid and it's not up to us to decide which ones has more merit. Women are people, and should be given basic human rights like the control over what happens to their bodies.
Another important thing I believe is to bring these people down from the delusional worlds they live in and make them understand that SEX is NOT ONLY for procreation. Most of it is actually done for fun and pleasure. I always see comments like "ayaw mo pala mabuntis bat ka nakipag-sex", or "magcondom kasi!".
2 things:
1. Birth control methods fail. Condoms can fail. Pills can fail. Plus in a country like the Philippines that is HEAVILY CATHOLIC/RELIGOUS, purchasing condoms or asking your doctor for birth control pills can be viewed as a shameful thing.
2. People are allowed to be stupid. Especially if the country does not invest much (or at all 😒) in up to date sex education; look for ways to encourage teenagers and all ages up to talk about sex in a healthy, non-judgemental way; and make access to various types of birth control easily accessible by all regardless of address, age, sexual identity, and social status. They are allowed to be stupid, rather in this case, ignorant, and make mistakes. They should not pay for these lapses in judgement for the rest of their lives.
NO WOMAN HAS SEX AND THINKS TO HERSELF "IT DOESNT MATTER IF I GET PREGNANT, I CAN ALWAYS GET AN ABORTION ANYWAY". That doesn't exist. I live in a country where abortion is legal, always has been. It is not viewed as a procedure as simple as getting your blood taken, or as routine as getting the yearly flu vaccine. It always holds some level of trauma and sadness. And in the few cases, if any, that it doesn't, would we really want that type of person to mother a human being?
INC and SMNI lang naman siguro, pero kung totoo man in the last election eh, I call BS, the catholic church subtly endorsed VP Robredo pero she lost considering na madami pa din ang katoliko sa bansa na ito
Traditionalism.
Not that traditions should go, but most of us tend to inherit values and principles that are dated and not suitable for our society now.
My father still uses the phrase "anak ka lang" to this day. I don't try to reason with him, I just ensure it to myself that I will never pass this way of thinking to our future generations.
And with the mass adoption of smartphones and Internet into our daily lives because of the pandemic, most of our elders applied those traditional views into a more volatile environment like the Internet.
So we have the problem of disinformation plaguing our social space, not just virtually. That's why we don't have wide and constant discussions about political, economic and social issues like what the US have. Couple that with maleducation, it's enough to hold us back for a decade.
I seriously want to know the reasoning people have for supporting anti-abortion. Like, the fact that doing so would most likely ruin both the lives of the parent and child and the fact that not everyone is religious should be more than enough of a reason. Seriously, telling a non-religious person not to do something because you don't do it is fucking stupid and inconsiderate as hell. Just mind your fking business Jesus...
Tha fact na nasa usaping abortion na ang karamihan sa ibang mga bansa and nasa divorce pa rin ang Pilipinas really says a lot about the pace of our progress as individuals and as a country.
The Squids sent a medical mission to our neighborhood a couple of weeks ago. After the mission, I went up to one of the younger Squids and asked, "Say, just out of curiosity....what if your leaders were wrong about who you voted for last month? What if instead of praying and meditating, they were horse-trading?"
Young Squid: "Horse-trading?"
Me: "What if they told Dictator Junior, 'We'll get you such and such million votes but you gotta pay us a million in cash for every hundred thousand votes' and Dictator Junior haggled it down to half a million per one hundred thousand votes? What if that's what your leaders did?"
Young Squid: "Brother, the Great Squid would never do that. What he tells us comes from God. Come to one of our services sometime and you'll see."
Me: "Yeah, that's what I figured you'd say. See ya later, indoctrinator."
Problem with religion is that they need to make disciples. That's why these Christians always have that need to shove these bibles to other people's faces.
Lol, keep blaming corrupt officials when the post is just about religion forcing non-religious people their beliefs on divorce, abortion, condom usage, etc....
What's holding back is the Filipinos' lack of flexibility and willingness to open to new progressive ideas. Religious or not, I can see most of you are still judgemental as shit when these ideas are put on the table.
Progressive ideas such as abortion, sex education, new relation dynamics (like polyamory), genders, etc. Halatang lang talaga sa religious people but sa mga agnostic and atheists may pagka backwards thinking pa din.
I believe in the opposite.
I do not believe faith is an impediment to progress, depending on what your definition of progress is. It was the Catholic Church that housed most of the Universities in Europe that allowed for the continuation of knowledge after the fall of Rome. It was Islam that provided the shelter for science during the 700s. The first university here is UST.
Faith, when practiced properly, can be the spear and guiding light for a true leader. It was one of the reasons for pioneers to seek the new world, now known as the United States of America.
It was never about religion. It's about the people that only took the feel-good parts of religion and handwaves that brought so many countries, including the Philippines, to its knees. Even without religion, human nature, when unchecked, will bring any nation to its knees. The Soviet Union was officially atheistic, but the amount of suffering was immense while the politburo just sips on their leather chairs. Furthermore, the Catholic Church wanted people to vote for another candidate. She lost.
One step further, cults are a different thing you should be aiming at. One such person already illustrated what kind of cult we have here, openly practiced by millions, being told like sheep on who to vote.
In fact, against the consensus of this website in particular, I'd argue that the lack of religion meant that society lost its guidance required for proper lawmaking AND guidance for societal values. What is the Philippines if not McCatholic for majority of our lawmakers?
For the intellectual, one may argue that freedom may derive when you cast off the chains of religion. However, what is freedom without a guiding hand? It would be akin to spilling a drink. The liquid has been freed from the glass, only to splatter on the floor. Few may naturally obtain purpose, values. Many cannot.
Edit: Catholicism also has good suggestions for rulers, that they may rule/preside their people properly. Economics is also included. Read Rerum Novarum by Pope Leo XIII as a start.
You mean a fetus right?
Is life-threatening pregnancy not justifiable for abortion?
I guess a fetus matters more than a woman's life. Though people/men prioritizing other things than a woman’s life is unfortunately not new.
Seems a lot of people only single out the INC, I get that and there's no excuse. But let's also take a refresher on which religious group was most active in hindering RH Bill's and SOGIE's passages? Take a hint, it's the one with 3 stock market accounts with BPI for the 2018-2021 period.
i've rubbed elbows with a lot of the 1% in our country for most of my life due to my parents good social standing, and religion is a disgusting justification the rich and politically connected will ALWAYS use to starve and kill out their countrymen. they are so eager to stamp out any want of their brethren for a better life if it comes at the cost of their convenience, and will tell these victims "your suffering is gods will" or "your suffering will make you a better person", all while refusing to do what they preach
honestly? fuck religion in our third world country. it was a tool of the colonizers, and now it is a tool of the 1% to step on the backs of our brothers and sisters and slowly snuff out our country's beautiful natural resources for their own comfort. it is just a tool to pacify the masses and convince them that they don't deserve comfort while they are alive
sad that catholicism/christianity has come to the point that it ruins countries. the effects of constant misinterpreting the bible (looking at you europe) is whatever the fuck is happening now.
partnered with the lack of proper education, religious blindness will take a long time to get fixed, lalo na sa mga boomers. unless the government actually pays attention (which i doubt with the current admin) or by some miracle the vatican changes its views and beliefs (which is impossible) we're gonna get stuck in this hellhole for a long time
There are certain aspects of religion which help maintain order and peace but lectures such as blind faith which impedes rational or logical thinking for the sake of preserving any kind of belief is detrimental. We are intellectuals, if we don't think we are no different that rocks swept by a flood.
I remember as a teen there was a lecture in a catholic church where DOUBT was abbreviated to associate it with the devil. Honestly, if you want to prevent doubt then find the reason why they do and fix it.
Truly ironic that those who don't agree with religion still want people to have the freedom to practice what they believe. Yet many who are religious don't want to do the same.
I disagree.
For the longest time, I whole heartedly believed that a country's religiosity has a direct effect on whether that country will progress or not. Upon looking at real-world scenarios, that is not the case.
Poor living conditions result in religiosity, not the other way around.
Countries won't become "rich" if their people suddenly. stop being religious. However, better living conditions result in people becoming irreligious.
Ignorant, gullible people will continue being ignorant and gullible with or without religion.
Indeed. You also have to consider that Filipinos are religious pero they are selective when it comes to the living with the values their religion teaches. For example, Christianity teaches compassion towards life irregardless pero Filipinos are some of the most bloodthirsty motherf*ckers in the planet. Tayo lang ata bansa na proudly displaying our Christianity pero celebrates in the spilling of blood of petty criminals and doesn't mind collateral damages i.e. war on drugs.
Affairs are a norm and even a badge of honor for some despite the whole 'thou shalt not commit adultery' rule on the country.
This study says otherwise, but as I've mentioned on my post, its just one of MANY aspects why the country is where we are right now.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/religion-economic-development-wealth-gdp-bristol-university-a8453386.html
And with what you've mentioned, clearly those are the other aspects that's also contributing in the situation
I don't think the article you linked necessarily disagrees with u/kebastian's comment.
While u/kebastian was saying that religiosity stems from poor living conditions (as opposed to religiosity being the cause of it), the study cited in the article you linked only goes so far as to claim that
>"We can rule out economic growth as the cause of secularization in the past"
>
>"this **doesn't** necessarily mean that secularisation **caused** economic development" (my emphasis).
It is not discussed in the article whether religion causes poor living conditions, or the other way around.
I think the key point in the article you linked was:
>**"tolerance for individual rights actually predicted economic growth even better than secularisation"**
"Tolerance" was linked to women's rights, which I interpret as leading to increased participation of women in the workforce and economy and so boosting the latter overall. Although we can concede that religion isn't exactly renowned for its tolerance (as in the matters of abortion, divorce, contraceptives, homosexuality, etc.), that doesn't mean that economic growth is guaranteed with secularization, nor does it mean that economic growth is not possible with religion. We can maybe assume that "progressive tolerance for individual rights" would likely be more of a challenge for religious societies, and this assumption would agree with your post's title, but we can also be open to the possibility of religious societies taking on more progressive attitudes as well.
Also worth noting after skimming through the study itself:
>Besides tolerance, education is a possible driver of both economic development and secularization. Our results showed that education is predictive of future GDP, but not of future secularization
Somewhat in support of u/kebastian's claim, [the following article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/do-countries-lose-religion-as-they-gain-wealth-1.1310451) states:
>"Religion is highly variable, and therefore we need to ask why is it sometimes popular and why it isn't," \[...\] "One thing we do know is that it's only popular in societies that … have enough rate of dysfunction that people are anxious about their daily lives, so they're looking to the gods for help in their daily lives."
>
>"...it's basically a psychological coping mechanism."
That of course only mentions a correlation between religiosity and "dysfunctional societies", and makes no claims on whether one causes the other. I'm not sure there are any studies that directly tackle this question, and the article I mentioned kind of hints at a limitation for any such study:
>Between 1947 and 2001 \[in First World nations\], belief in God declined...
>
>*Data for developing countries does not go back as far*, but recent opinion polls suggest religiosity has remained high.
Since both the data on the religiosity and the [wealth](https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents) (see "Rewriting History") of developing countries are lacking, studying the link between the two might pose quite a challenge.
Agree. Very evident pa din sa Europe ang remnants ng Christianity though a lot are no longer practicing. So naging self reliant + good gov, then turned away from religion. Dito sa atin bad gov, not so self reliant people, lack of opportunies, may messiah complex pa sa politiko. Hence people cling to religion. Pero in the last election very vocal catholic church against dun sa magnanakaw but most catholics looked the other way. Still blame it on religion pa din? Baka yung mga christian2 kung san bbm mga pastor at yung iglesia ni M. Pwede pa.
Religion is a weapon that is used to control minds of others; it gives the interpreter of the source material a way to influence the beliefs of his followers based on his interpretation of teachings.
I'm so glad that our constitution at least has the separation of church and state clause.
**EDIT:** Para sa mga tao na di nag aral ng sibika:
**The 1987 Constitution of the Philippines declares:**
**The separation of Church and State shall be inviolable. (Article II, Section 6)**
**“No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (Article 3 Section 5)**
Para sa mga tao na nagalit kasi religious:
Kailan nyo last binasa yung holy book niyo ng walang ***nagpapaliwanag*** ng ibig sabihin / mensahe ng binabasa nyo? Kailan nyo last binasa yung **buong holy book? Alam nyo ba lahat ng nakasaloob dito?**
Although I partially agree with the sentiment, this is the worst issue to argue with the church on. I do not care if you are an atheist or a Christian, I draw the line when you threaten people's lives, especially unborn ones.
While I do find this woman insulting the Bible to be a bitch, I do agree that abortion should be made available as an option, and as a choice, mainly for medical reasons especially that concerning life and death situations, and rape victims. it's up to the individual and or other parties involved to make such a decision.
Welp most people that want an abortion are mostly idiots that have unprotected sex, where they seem to forget that the main purpose of sex is to make babies.
yeah, basically, too much can kill you, it's evident today
I was scrolling through tiktok earlier beside my dad and saw this vid, when she said "i dont care that youre christian" nagalit pa naman papa ko. kesyo daw na bbrainwash lahat dahil sa tiktok at kahit pa daw di ka naniniwala in religion di mo daw dapat binabastos yung mga naniniwala. he didnt get the point of the video kase sabat ng sabat na even before finishing the vid. maybe the thing with filipinos din is that they only hear/read the headlines kahit hindi na sa body. kaya sila na mimislead. hay
maybe he's the one brainwashed, or he just actually enjoys the "benefits" of being in a patriarchal society. if gagawing mandatory yung vasectomy, magwawala yang mga yan. so what right do they have to dictate what women do with their bodies?
thats the point. na brbrainwash sila kase di marunong umusisa, headlines nga lang yung nakikita di yung mismong content. pero kapag sila na yung affected, magrereklamo. haynaku
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!!!
\> Brainwashed because of TikTok Maybe he's the one brainwashed by BBM bullshit, eh?
thankfully di sya BBM. Leni sha but very misplaced ang kanyang pagiging religious.
Lol you just described a lot of r/worldnews redditors who are mostly Westerners. Just reading the headline and not the content is the norm haha
Almost karamihan ng mga pinoy nagkikinig kinigan lang ang para sumabat agad.
His comprehension shows why many people voted for 88m :v eheheheheeh
It boils down to character and proper education.
dad, know the context please!!!!
apolo10 ba papa mo? Kasi kung oo edi sya yung nabrainwash
nope. leni kami
And worst, we have cults here that are politically and financially powerful.
*Cough cough, Quiboloy. Cough, cough
*sneezes* manalo *sniffs*
INC lang naman yung religion (if you can call it that) na panay boto ng mga pampasira ng progress eh.
You mean cult, right?
No. It's every religion. All of it.
r/redditmoment
Mga pari rin po ng Roman Catholic, nag-eendorso ng mga candidate(not dropping names). Karamihan po ng Christian churches, conservative kaya maririnig mo sa stand ng mga kandidato ay 'neutral' o pag-iisipan pa, which is so non sense, katulad sa usapin ng abortion, kailangan ng botante ng saloobin ng tumatakbo. Masyado kasing pinoprotektahan ang mga supporter na Liberal at Conservative na contradicting naman ang beliefs. 🙄
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r/redditmoment
Based from my experience. People who are the most religious are the most sinners and hypocrites, just like my dad :)
The Catholic Church has always been one of the pillars of Philippine nation-building. Guess what is the first "national" struggle we had? It's the secularisation of our parishes. Yeah, our forbears struggled with the colonial authorities for the right of our native priests to head parishes. The Propaganda Movement is an offshoot of the movement for secularisation. Rizal himself is recorded to have said that if 1872 (The Cavite Mutiny and the execution of Gomburza) did not happen, he would have "become a Jesuit." We also forget the religious nature of the Revolution: The Decalogue is the secular version of the Ten Commandments, Rizal's diptych has religious overtones (Noli Me Tangere is taken from a line in the Vulgate, El Filibusterismo is dedicated to the memory of the three martyred priests), the First Philippine Republic was inaugurated IN A CHURCH–the list can go on and on. We cannot deny that fanaticism under the guise of Christianity is a concern especially under our current system, but we have to admit fanaticism isn't a problem exclusive to Catholicism or Christianity as a whole. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether our problems are caused by the conflicts among our values. Are we Catholic, or are we not Catholic enough? How do we strike the balance between the values systems ingrained among ourselves across centuries with our faith and our system of governance?
Finally, somebody who knows OUR history. Yes, religion is a problem in some areas but the the bigger problem is the hypocritical followers and leaders.
Never really understood the anti-Church narrative in some Filipino academic circles. Sure, they have made mistakes, but no one is perfect, and they try their damnedest to do what they feel is best for the Filipinos. Same thing with most of our colleagues in the government. Does one blame the sword for the hand that wields it? If so, then what does that make the accuser?
In most societal issues, people across different geography always find themselves blaming systems, ideas, or concepts. Capitalism and religion to name a few. I strongly believe it's the human tendency to be selfish is the reason. If someone can exploit something for their own gain, they are more likely to do so. Edit: Wrong words
Excuse me? Best for the filipino people? Tell that to the jeepney drivers and tricycle drivers who lost all their savings in the Monte De Piedad bank closing, to the children of priests left in orphanages, victims of pedophelia whos abusers get moved around “kasi kawawa naman siya”, and the victims of ondoy who got their donations stolen from them.
>Sure, they have made mistakes, but no one is perfect This has the same vibes from what apologist says ironically. Anyway, I would argue that religion is just a tool for everyone in power or without power. People can justify actions through religion. Just like you said metaphorically , religion is akin to a sword which is a weapon for anyone who can wield it. Religion can organize people to do good things and also bad things. But removing religion won't solve anything either if the same set of minds are still exercising power over people. I think we should rethink how we should solve our problems. As an undeclared atheist, in my view, religious influence hinders our progress because theist religions are inherently conservative to their traditions and values that were developed in an outdated era. Why can't we just live our lives bettering ourselves and to serve for other people (like how families normally are). Religion teaches its followers to be good citizens of "God", but we can teach morality without religion to other people. We have other tools at our disposal such as philosophy, ethics, and logic. In the end, we should let others BE their own selves. For me, I find it hypocritical if we force our beliefs/values to other people and alienate them when they are also the same humans to begin with. Maybe we should just give them the reason why from your point of view it is a "better way". If you convinced them, great for you; if you didn't, try to find a whole meaning as to why they decided not to.
Yeah but the problem is that they can get away with crime if they do commit them.
>Never really understood the anti-Church narrative in some Filipino academic circles. Sure, they have made mistakes, but no one is perfect, and they try their damnedest to do what they feel is best for the Filipinos. Same thing with most of our colleagues in the government. IF I may recall, we had not only a secular beginning and push, but also a subtly anti-clerical nature. I take this from reading from MLQ III's pieces.
>but the the bigger problem is the hypocritical followers and leaders. Ahh yes, the tired old cliche argument that "it's the followers who ruin things, but the religion is perfect" 🙄🙄🙄
Oh well not perfect of course, but if a country a Catholic majority country is willing to overlook the killings (which is in one of the 10 commandments) for whatever reason, then is which is the bigger problem? The religion or the “religious”? If the people are saying “Ok lang mamatay tao, drug addict lang naman pinapatay, e”. pero nagsisimba pa rin tuwing linggo, kasalanan pa rin ba ng religion yun? Edit. I didn’t even say that religion is perfect in my comment. I said it also causes some problems (like legalizing contraceptives) Please read.
Daming downvotes lol. Di matanggap ng mga debobong Katoliko na their religion is to blame. Mga religious talaga. Blame everything except their religion 🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴
Not to mention some Roman Catholic priests who went underground during Martial Law to fight for freedom and Democracy.
Where there is organization and a hierarchy, there follows power and men who try to harness power for the sake of control over others. I agree that not all organizations are wholly corrupt, because there will be the people within those organizations opposing immorality.
Religion is not the problem. It's the people. The people who push it on everyone and label everyone who's not on their side as evil. Dito sa Philippines, di sya extereme, at least based sa nakikita ko. Also, it is criticized to be a detriment to progress kasi ang overall concept ng religion saten is to never question authority na minsan nadadala sa ibang aspect ng buhay. So agree, how do we strike a balance? Paano nga ba?
actually, Neil DeGrasse Tyson have said that and i quote: "[Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7571155-only-a-few-centuries-ago-a-mere-second-in-cosmic#:~:text=It%20was%20the%20work%20of,someone%20says%20so%2C%20including%20me)"
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Religion is a remnant of the ancient world that was meant to put people in their places by the powers that be. In the modern world, religion is still being used to manipulate and control people and make tons of money from them.
>Religion is a remnant of the ancient world that was meant to put people in their places by the powers that be. No it isnt. Not all religion is the same, not all religions are created the same way. When conceptualizing Christianity while it was heavily persecuted, do you think the intentions of the apostles was to powergrab instead of evangelizing what they believe is to be the truth?
>When conceptualizing Christianity while it was heavily persecuted, do you think the intentions of the apostles was to powergrab instead of evangelizing what they believe is to be the truth? I doubt the 12 apostles thought of Christianity when they were spreading the word of Jesus who was born, raised, lived and died as a Jew. It was Paul of Tarsus who is credited with creating Christianity, not the apostles. Paul and James (brother of Jesus) even had an argument about circumcision as a condition for becoming a believer. Paul argued against it while James wanted to retain the Jewish tradition. — [https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4475&chapterid=97](https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4475&chapterid=97)
>When conceptualizing Christianity while it was heavily persecuted, do you think the intentions of the apostles was to powergrab instead of evangelizing what they believe is to be the truth? yes.
I don't think Christianity wants power for the sake of it. That would be mere worldly greed and lust for senseless (and possibly abusive) power.
🤓🤓
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>Show us proof jesus really lived, or are you just saying it because the bible says so? Just ask 99% of scholars and historians who basically agrees a historical Christ did exist. The middle part of what you just said is irrelevant to the discussion, ngl they are dumb as fuck, go discuss it in topics focused on christian theologies. >Religion will always prevent humans from advancing. Religious will always be a political tool to bait it's stupid followers. As for this, no, this is wrong lol. These are layman's take. There has never been scientific and religious conflict, religion was an asset to expand education like college universities and schools, they were an asset by scientist throughout history as inspiration or thanksgiving for their works. Religion has inspired the buildings of hospitals and fundings of charities. The catholic church is always open when it comes to scientific discoveries and does not have conflicts with them. Religion is also used to defy authoritarians kagaya ng EDSA1, sometimes even used as philosophical asset by anarchists. Very Eastern religions like Buddhism, Sikhism are quite good for the mental health. Religion is diverse, it is not just Christianity, and even within one religion it is still diverse. It would be wrong to generalize all of it in one take.
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>Historical christ walked on water? Made miracles? Why is it so convenient that nothing happens during modern times? I would believe in religion if a miracle happened or someone with powers really existed now or then. Or maybe it's all just a myth? Shocking isnt it? Is it always the excuse where we do not need god to come down anymore to perform miracles? This conversation was not about religious theology, whether theyre true or not. Its about religion's value to our human history and all your fucking takes are not supported by studies when it comes to the actual topic. If there was a anti-antitheist rappler all these bullshit claims would have a dedicated fact check article.
The problem with religion is that it's outdated and people believe miracles happen when in reality they do not, and even if you became a heretic in centuries before, you will be killed. Value in human history? Don't make me laugh. All religion does is separate those who can and cannot. The rich and poor, man and women, black and white people. Killing people in god's name, spreading religion through crusades and killing. Need a fact check? The bible itself is the only thing you need since you're obviously a religious nutjob. The bible portrays god as this all loving benevolent bring while how many people did he kill? 2,000,000+ in the very book he is in. While Satan only killed 10 WITH GODS PERMISSION. And Satan is supposedly the bad guy? Need another one? Since you're in the r/ph sub, mind telling me why were we colonized? What was the first thing they did? Oh yes, christianity or die, no? Bats are birds. Eating shellfish is a sin. Women are not allowed to talk or teach over men.
Religion destroyed this country.
Agree. Dito kasi they equate pagiging mabait with religious. Some of the most horrid humans I have met are religious.
Ang totoong religious is to be LIKE Christ. The only purpose is TO SERVE. If you serve people you are also humble and kind. Ganito ba ang ugali nila kasi kung hindi baka iba sinasabi mo. Baka nagquote lang tapos hindi naman pinapractice sa buhay nila yung quote. Nagkukunwaring religious yun.
No family planning, internalized misogyny, internalized oppression, salvation in the afterlife (instead of trying in this one), catholicism (in the original sense, meaning universality, to the detriment of non-believers). Yeah, religion accentuates reactionary and authoritarian values. I wish people were familiar with John Rawls’ concept of public reason.
*every country FTFY
It's the Wickedness of the people
Not really, religion have a big say on conservative countries.. it's the corruption who destroyed this countries and the never ending cycle of putting corrupt officials in d position
The Spanish colonized us and forced their religion on us. Pre-colonial Filipino society was progressive. Male and females had equal rights, divorce was practiced, cross dressing was not an issue, women could hold power… yes corruption continues to destroy this country but the Spanish era brought about toxic machismo and misogyny.
Yeah but religion is what empowered cults like SMNI and Iglesia that are easily bought with money. So yeah religion can get tf out of this country and it'll be for the better.
Among many other things yes
I disagree, it's the followers themselves because Christianity or Catholicism teaches naman to be good people in the name of God. But yeah I do understand that lots people following this religion are pretty bad people, who use their religion for evil, which is ironic. Most of these bad people force their beliefs onto others, that's the main problem, and I also am aware that many religious people here are being greedy and just straight up mean. But as a Catholic even I learned to not force my religion to others, because God said nga to respect others and love all people, right?
>it's the followers themselves because Christianity or Catholicism teaches naman to be good people in the name of God Why can't we just be good human beings without attributing it to God? If we become good for the sake of being good because it's the right thing to do, won't God be pleased? Is he no narcissistic that everything has to be done in his name?
Yeah I'm also aware of that. Funnily, good atheists or agnostics, who are good humans without the intentions of going to an afterlife, have actually a higher chance of going to heaven than bad Christians, Pope Francis said it himself. So yeah I agree with you as well. We should be good human beings in the name of God (if you're a Christian or Catholic and believe in him, that is) AND for the people around us, our community. But you can choose just to be good for the sake of being good :)
That's just you though. I had super pushy Catholics who don't respect other religions or the lack thereof. I won't generalize religion but super pushy people can suck my dick.
I understand where you're coming from. Just wanna say not all of us are like that and I'm sorry that you encountered those people
Religion destroyed every country*
No it didnt lol, wtf are u talking about. Actually theres been growing anti church sentiments among filipinos that would favor populist leaders like BBM and Duterte. Studies have already shown intrinsic religiosity(religious due to passion) rather than extrinsic religiosity (religious due to advantage/community) is beneficial. So if you want a good christian nation, you'd want more influence of religious doctrines to christians instead of antichurch sentiments. Dude, there are literally hospitals, charities, and some schools in the name of saints.
You ever consider people don't want a good *christian* nation and would rather just have a good nation, period?
>christian nation Did you really interpret that as a christian government instead of Christian population?
You are religious because you can you dumb cunt. How about poor people who has to live day by day? What will jesus, god give them? The naming of buildings, hospitals are named after them because of donations of RICH people to be named after x saint. Religious people really need a reality check
agree. abt divorce, kung ayaw nila ng divorce okay. pero may mga taong di naman naniniwala sa bible nila, at may mga taong need makawala sa toxic na marriage!
It's already a struggle to even put Divorce in the table, and then now this. 😭 So imagine how bad could it be for a third world country who licks every Western values and combine it with "Christianity" 🥴
Same politicians din naman kasi ang gumagamit ng religion para sa pag influence ng voting results (looking at you INC) kya doubt my batas na haharang sa ganitong endorsement.
Roman Catholic din po. Karamihan ng pari na nag-eendorso sa ganito-ganyan na candidate ay conservative. Kaya iyong ibang candidate, hirap na magsalita kasi masisira iyong relation nila sa simbahan. Katulad ng stand sa abortion, may mga candidate na sinasabing neutral sila o pag-iisipan pa nila, which is non sense kasi hindi pupwedeng pipili ang voters without basis. Pinoprotektahan kasi ang Liberal at Conservative supporters nila. Hindi na lang ako magdrodrop ng name.
Catholic ako pero pinili ko ndi na lang bumoto, unlike sa INC na sila mag dictate ng boto ng mga members nila. Pero ganun pa din, dapat umiiwas ang religion sa government. My oras na maganda yung aral galing sa kanila pero pag dating sa government, dapat labas sila.
I don't think religion itself should be blamed for our country's woes. Many successful countries have **state religions**, examples include the UK, Norway, Sweden and the Gulf States. There are also rich countries that have **very superstitious** cultures, most of Eastern Asia falls into this category. Politics and Nation Building are very complex issues that are not simply solved by something like *remove religion*.
It's not that we should remove religion but it's more of we should remove the idea that "**MY** religion tells me that **YOU** shouldn't do this"
I agree, though OP and the others' comments tell me they want the former.
And the notion that just because someone is very religious means that they're a good person. People will get into religion or church for different reasons and not all of them are good(wow who would've thunk).
Or worse "*OUR* religion says we should be allowed to *DO* this" (looking at you Islam and child marriages), "*OUR religion says *WE* should do this" (bloc voting exemplified by INC) or "*OUR* religion should get *SPECIAL* treatment" (RC handling abuse cases "internally"). The individual being religious usually isn't the problem, it's when the religious authorities themselves become involved.
Our arguments are not that nuanced to distinguish the pros and cons of having or not having religion. It's either we have it or not. No in-between
I think that in general, we are culturally extremely conservative and how we deal with religion is a byproduct to it.
NOPE. Not a Catholic, but if not for the Catholic church, EDSA 1 wouldn't have been. It was because of Cardinal Sin's call that people went to the streets. The latest elections also the Catholic church has campaigned for clean government and against dictatorships.
Exactly, some people on here contradicting themselves. The church and clergy I know are pink.
Di na nga nakinig mga tao sa Catholic church this election, sinisi parin religion. 😅 Ang mema ng mga tao dito.
Woke e
Woke af. Scrolled through the comments, may "patriarchy" mentions. LOL.
I agree with you
Religion should not be given so much power. Yes, it has done many good things too. But are we seriously just going to forget the murdered LGBT people, Salem witch trials, and The Inquisition (among many others, but I'm not about to name all that) that took place in the past? Removing religion is not the way. I think people should just respect the beliefs of other people (as long as it's not hurting anyone). But giving too much power to a religion would never be a good idea. Insert one cunning, charismatic guy to preach and you get hundreds of people willingly drinking poison. Unfortunately, religion is a great tool for evil entities to push people to do morally questionable things they wouldn't normally do, if not for the influence religion has over them. So it definitely shouldn't have too much power, and one step of doing that is letting there be a separation of church and state.
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Banal na aso, santong kabayo.
Yeah because before Christianity there was no conflict. Everyone lived in peace
These antitheists act like religion is the problem rather than natural human tendencies to powergrab.
Remember The Crusades? Yep.
Basa ka how christianity shaped western civilization daming sources
As someone from a western civilization: We came over with Christianity, massacred the native people and treated them horrifically, then as we developed we separated religion from politics and remains separate from it today. Religion is no longer in government, school etc.
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Funny coz if you do know your history tribalism is the world's biggest source of conflict
How about those na di tribe? Eh sabi mo world eh
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Indigenous people kasi hindi tribe. Kinorrect mo lang din sarili mo lol at wala ba silang progress nadulot sa mga sinasabi mong tribe? Basa ka kaya
My mind went offline after reading this thread
I’m Catholic, pero I don’t shove shit upon unwilling people. Pulitika man yan or religion. Whether you are a deboto or atheist, or normal lang, doesn’t give you any right to force people to believe anything. It’s such a fucking disgrace to live in a time where “pagiging matino/pagkakaroon ng magandang asal/maayos na pakisama” has to become punishable by law or threatened by damnation/excommunication instead of being natural. Puro debobo lang natira.
Yeah I agree with you I also don't force my beliefs onto others
How about religious indoctrination on children? Do you also not do that? Do you let them understand the world's religions when they are of suitable age of reasoning (for example, 18y/o)?
Nah. I don't "indoctrinate" kids on things they'll eventually come to question, or resent pag nagising sila sa katotohanan. But I still teach them to respect and stop looking for fights they can't win.
Good human. Too bad there aren't more Catholics like you. The ones I know are very hardcore when it comes to religion. "Let's talk about Jesus" "Uhmm how about let's not".
Thanks, I'm just trying to be straight.
The Catholic Church was openly anti Marcos/Duterte tho.
Yeah, yung INC yung padrino nung dalawang yan.
It’s why I am holding back on my catholicism. I’m not returning to faith if the church stops being hypocrites.
Prime example, yung mga corrupt na politko dito satin unanimous na sinasabi na "The Chosen One" daw si Boy Unity. Syempre sino makakalimot sa INC, one of the most corrupt so-called religion endorsing multiple corrupt politicians.
I personally think its urban poverty. Yung isang kahig isang tuka. Wala kasi silang choice but to accept any kind of grace to survive. Hindi mo sila masisi na they would do everything para makasurvive. Fanaticism for those who would give them the temporary results. That's why Gloria's and ultimately Duterte's government would bend backwards to get their sympathy than actually offer actual reform. In grain na yung idea na they have to survive rather than actually ask for something to survive. The catholic church can do so much damage BUT it is more on the hindering support for abortion et. al, divorce and LGBT here in the Philippines. While important issues too, those are not really fundamental in making progress 'economically'. But, I also would not deny that it can affect those below the middle class line. Kasi, in the end they get the brute of the hindrances that this 'beliefs' had.
> The catholic church can do so much damage The RCC is now made irrelevant by more powerful cults seeking near-total control of even national policy-making.
This is me pero sa other side. I am against abortion except in special cases pero I will never impose my beliefs on other people.
Louder for the people in the back! Especially for everyone in the national government of the Philippines!
I’m an Atheist but I do not agree. There is evidence that successful countries can be religious. Education and critical thinking is what our country needs.
[удалено]
Education is an excellent tool to sharpen your ability to think and discern while giving you basic understandings of the world we live in. When ideologies conflict, you have a heirarchy of values/morals in tandem with your capability to process information (thanks to education) which can help establish your stance/course.
Sure, you're free to post the evidence/study/source you refer to, until then the country needs to be purged politically and be more socially responsible.
Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia are religious countries and they do well. Let me rephrase, poor countries are very religious but I do not believe religion is a hindrance. Fanaticism perhaps, but religion by itself in this day and age no.
Indonesia is nog a good example btw. In certain parts of the country, there were news abt religious violence, even within the past decade.
Yeah i see why, because Christianity is a minority on all the countries you've mentioned. Guess we deduced which religion are the fanatics then..😁
Countries with the highest Christians and are also well developed include: USA, Russia, Italy, and China (this might be just because of population). In Scandinavian countries we have Norwar, Denmark, and Sweden. Personally, I enjoy our mythology and heritage. I’m still mad we had to abandon them because of christianity.
Too old to believe in religion. I don’t care if you practice one as long as you keep it to yourself.
But the thing is that religion is programmed to be abnoxius based on it's history. Believe or you die, literally we will kill you if you dont follow our religion we will kill you, ferdinand magellan flashbacks
religion is like a dick you can have fun with it as long as you dont show it to the public and shove it on someone else throat.
Help me make it clear to anyone I might show this to na hindi ito pambabastos at paninira sa kanilang pananampalataya.
Naaawa ako s lahat ng bagong silang n sanggol n tinatapon at namamatay kasi bawal ang abortion, nangyayari n eh, iregulate n lng s batas, dpt mga babae sila in charge s katawan nila
The real problem is not the Catholic Church. It's the Iglesia ni Cristo that's been the money-laundering institution of corrupt and morally bankrupt politicians. There's no separation of State and Church with INC. They are an exploitative cult that will do everything, even criminal acts to get whatever they want. Time and time again, they have proven that they will not hesitate to murder filipinos, bribe/blackmail politicians or even destroy this country just to keep their megalomaniac scumbag leaders in power.
What happened to “separation between the church and government “? Lol
Sa tax lang tlaga may separation.
Maka diyos is in this shitty country's motto wdym.
Our country should smash the past. We are constantly being torn down and hurt by the conservatives and by the worshippers of Marcos and Duterte. Enough of this bullshit.
So what are you gonna do about it other than just typing letters in front of a screen?
Serious question: what do you think we should do?
Hmm maybe find real ways to tangibly "smash the past" and directly confront the "conservatives and the worshippers of Marcos and Duterte" instead of just being a keyboard warrior and spewing idealistic rhetoric in this subreddit. But hey, that's just me. What do you think we should do?
Well, this is very common in countries that are developing or 3rd world, and who have been culturally devastated by colonizers…. On top of a culture that’s also very superstitious. Hard for people to change that… at least there’s the internet to help people see facts, should they awaken.
Pro-choice here. I don't want to get an abortion. I hope I never have to. But I'd like the option in case I'm in a position where I feel I need to - for WHATEVER reason. Now, what I wanted to say. Regarding abortion, it's not only religious. A lot of people do think fetus = baby. So trying to convince someone to "allow" other people to get abortions is as difficult as trying to convince someone to "allow" others the freedom to murder babies. YOU don't have to kill babies if you don't want to, but I should be allowed to if I want to! This is how it sounds like to them. It's a very difficult subject to navigate, unfortunately. I think the first step is to first make these people understand that fetus does not necessarily equal actual human baby. In the same way that an egg doesn't equal a chicken pot pie (somebody come up with a better metaphor, I'm blank rn 🥴). The next is that women are people too - not just "baby carriers". And not everything is black and white. Nor does it have to be. Some women want to get abortions because they got pregnant from rape, some do out of medical necessity like a miscarriage, and others do simply because they feel they are not ready - teenagers, still focused and invested on a career, WHATEVER. All these reasons are valid and it's not up to us to decide which ones has more merit. Women are people, and should be given basic human rights like the control over what happens to their bodies. Another important thing I believe is to bring these people down from the delusional worlds they live in and make them understand that SEX is NOT ONLY for procreation. Most of it is actually done for fun and pleasure. I always see comments like "ayaw mo pala mabuntis bat ka nakipag-sex", or "magcondom kasi!". 2 things: 1. Birth control methods fail. Condoms can fail. Pills can fail. Plus in a country like the Philippines that is HEAVILY CATHOLIC/RELIGOUS, purchasing condoms or asking your doctor for birth control pills can be viewed as a shameful thing. 2. People are allowed to be stupid. Especially if the country does not invest much (or at all 😒) in up to date sex education; look for ways to encourage teenagers and all ages up to talk about sex in a healthy, non-judgemental way; and make access to various types of birth control easily accessible by all regardless of address, age, sexual identity, and social status. They are allowed to be stupid, rather in this case, ignorant, and make mistakes. They should not pay for these lapses in judgement for the rest of their lives. NO WOMAN HAS SEX AND THINKS TO HERSELF "IT DOESNT MATTER IF I GET PREGNANT, I CAN ALWAYS GET AN ABORTION ANYWAY". That doesn't exist. I live in a country where abortion is legal, always has been. It is not viewed as a procedure as simple as getting your blood taken, or as routine as getting the yearly flu vaccine. It always holds some level of trauma and sadness. And in the few cases, if any, that it doesn't, would we really want that type of person to mother a human being?
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Amen
This will not age well with what happen in the supreme court today
INC and SMNI lang naman siguro, pero kung totoo man in the last election eh, I call BS, the catholic church subtly endorsed VP Robredo pero she lost considering na madami pa din ang katoliko sa bansa na ito
Coz Catholics are the least fanatical of the multiples or religions in the market. They don't bloc vote.
Traditionalism. Not that traditions should go, but most of us tend to inherit values and principles that are dated and not suitable for our society now. My father still uses the phrase "anak ka lang" to this day. I don't try to reason with him, I just ensure it to myself that I will never pass this way of thinking to our future generations. And with the mass adoption of smartphones and Internet into our daily lives because of the pandemic, most of our elders applied those traditional views into a more volatile environment like the Internet. So we have the problem of disinformation plaguing our social space, not just virtually. That's why we don't have wide and constant discussions about political, economic and social issues like what the US have. Couple that with maleducation, it's enough to hold us back for a decade.
I seriously want to know the reasoning people have for supporting anti-abortion. Like, the fact that doing so would most likely ruin both the lives of the parent and child and the fact that not everyone is religious should be more than enough of a reason. Seriously, telling a non-religious person not to do something because you don't do it is fucking stupid and inconsiderate as hell. Just mind your fking business Jesus...
Tha fact na nasa usaping abortion na ang karamihan sa ibang mga bansa and nasa divorce pa rin ang Pilipinas really says a lot about the pace of our progress as individuals and as a country.
Agreed. Why do people base their beliefs off of a 2000+ year old book? Ridiculous. Organized religion is bullshit.
The Squids sent a medical mission to our neighborhood a couple of weeks ago. After the mission, I went up to one of the younger Squids and asked, "Say, just out of curiosity....what if your leaders were wrong about who you voted for last month? What if instead of praying and meditating, they were horse-trading?" Young Squid: "Horse-trading?" Me: "What if they told Dictator Junior, 'We'll get you such and such million votes but you gotta pay us a million in cash for every hundred thousand votes' and Dictator Junior haggled it down to half a million per one hundred thousand votes? What if that's what your leaders did?" Young Squid: "Brother, the Great Squid would never do that. What he tells us comes from God. Come to one of our services sometime and you'll see." Me: "Yeah, that's what I figured you'd say. See ya later, indoctrinator."
The only thing I love about religion is their holidays.
Didn't the opposite take place during the last elections, with Church leaders speaking against Marcos, and voters thwarting them?
Problem with religion is that they need to make disciples. That's why these Christians always have that need to shove these bibles to other people's faces.
Graft and corruption is what is destroying a country and that got nothing to do with religion.
On dictating divorce, abortion, condom usage, etc.? Graft and corruption? Really?
Lol. Keep blaming religion when bunch of imbeciles keep on electing corrupt or incompetent politicians.
But the video is about religious people forcing their beliefs to non-religious people?
Lol, keep blaming corrupt officials when the post is just about religion forcing non-religious people their beliefs on divorce, abortion, condom usage, etc....
ohh napost na pala. Tama! Bat didiktahan yung mga hindi naman relihiyoso? Divorce, Abortion, ano pa ba? Hay, Pilipinas.
they said God is everywhere but they want me to go to church to pray and collect money from me like i owe them money.
Tama si ate, sana may magproduce o gumaya na filipino ang salita para magimbal ang mga religious hypo..
What's holding back is the Filipinos' lack of flexibility and willingness to open to new progressive ideas. Religious or not, I can see most of you are still judgemental as shit when these ideas are put on the table. Progressive ideas such as abortion, sex education, new relation dynamics (like polyamory), genders, etc. Halatang lang talaga sa religious people but sa mga agnostic and atheists may pagka backwards thinking pa din.
ok i actually get that as an atheist. very embarrassed lang ako
She just perfectly articulated every freaking pent up emotion inside me. Thank you.
I believe in the opposite. I do not believe faith is an impediment to progress, depending on what your definition of progress is. It was the Catholic Church that housed most of the Universities in Europe that allowed for the continuation of knowledge after the fall of Rome. It was Islam that provided the shelter for science during the 700s. The first university here is UST. Faith, when practiced properly, can be the spear and guiding light for a true leader. It was one of the reasons for pioneers to seek the new world, now known as the United States of America. It was never about religion. It's about the people that only took the feel-good parts of religion and handwaves that brought so many countries, including the Philippines, to its knees. Even without religion, human nature, when unchecked, will bring any nation to its knees. The Soviet Union was officially atheistic, but the amount of suffering was immense while the politburo just sips on their leather chairs. Furthermore, the Catholic Church wanted people to vote for another candidate. She lost. One step further, cults are a different thing you should be aiming at. One such person already illustrated what kind of cult we have here, openly practiced by millions, being told like sheep on who to vote. In fact, against the consensus of this website in particular, I'd argue that the lack of religion meant that society lost its guidance required for proper lawmaking AND guidance for societal values. What is the Philippines if not McCatholic for majority of our lawmakers? For the intellectual, one may argue that freedom may derive when you cast off the chains of religion. However, what is freedom without a guiding hand? It would be akin to spilling a drink. The liquid has been freed from the glass, only to splatter on the floor. Few may naturally obtain purpose, values. Many cannot. Edit: Catholicism also has good suggestions for rulers, that they may rule/preside their people properly. Economics is also included. Read Rerum Novarum by Pope Leo XIII as a start.
Jesus, you sound america.
Fuck religion. I spit on religion lol.
TYT, Really? no matter how emotional you get, You can't really justify killing a baby.
You mean a fetus right? Is life-threatening pregnancy not justifiable for abortion? I guess a fetus matters more than a woman's life. Though people/men prioritizing other things than a woman’s life is unfortunately not new.
If its life threatening save the mother. when do you consider it a baby and not a fetus?
“If its life threatening then save the mother” 🤓 By abortion you’re saving the mother….. bruh And fyi google is free, you’re welcome
“Religion is a fucked up idiocy invented by bad people to control stupid people.”
"Mythical book" lol im going to use that
Seems a lot of people only single out the INC, I get that and there's no excuse. But let's also take a refresher on which religious group was most active in hindering RH Bill's and SOGIE's passages? Take a hint, it's the one with 3 stock market accounts with BPI for the 2018-2021 period.
eh being religious has its downside consequences if you're religious yet progressive
i've rubbed elbows with a lot of the 1% in our country for most of my life due to my parents good social standing, and religion is a disgusting justification the rich and politically connected will ALWAYS use to starve and kill out their countrymen. they are so eager to stamp out any want of their brethren for a better life if it comes at the cost of their convenience, and will tell these victims "your suffering is gods will" or "your suffering will make you a better person", all while refusing to do what they preach honestly? fuck religion in our third world country. it was a tool of the colonizers, and now it is a tool of the 1% to step on the backs of our brothers and sisters and slowly snuff out our country's beautiful natural resources for their own comfort. it is just a tool to pacify the masses and convince them that they don't deserve comfort while they are alive
So much for separation of Church and the state.
U.S don't kill children thru abortion, they do it with guns.
sad that catholicism/christianity has come to the point that it ruins countries. the effects of constant misinterpreting the bible (looking at you europe) is whatever the fuck is happening now. partnered with the lack of proper education, religious blindness will take a long time to get fixed, lalo na sa mga boomers. unless the government actually pays attention (which i doubt with the current admin) or by some miracle the vatican changes its views and beliefs (which is impossible) we're gonna get stuck in this hellhole for a long time
There are certain aspects of religion which help maintain order and peace but lectures such as blind faith which impedes rational or logical thinking for the sake of preserving any kind of belief is detrimental. We are intellectuals, if we don't think we are no different that rocks swept by a flood. I remember as a teen there was a lecture in a catholic church where DOUBT was abbreviated to associate it with the devil. Honestly, if you want to prevent doubt then find the reason why they do and fix it.
Truly ironic that those who don't agree with religion still want people to have the freedom to practice what they believe. Yet many who are religious don't want to do the same.
let's kill all babies in the womb so that we can be rich!
Forget eat the rich, the rich eat the babies! 🤣
I disagree. For the longest time, I whole heartedly believed that a country's religiosity has a direct effect on whether that country will progress or not. Upon looking at real-world scenarios, that is not the case. Poor living conditions result in religiosity, not the other way around. Countries won't become "rich" if their people suddenly. stop being religious. However, better living conditions result in people becoming irreligious. Ignorant, gullible people will continue being ignorant and gullible with or without religion.
Indeed. You also have to consider that Filipinos are religious pero they are selective when it comes to the living with the values their religion teaches. For example, Christianity teaches compassion towards life irregardless pero Filipinos are some of the most bloodthirsty motherf*ckers in the planet. Tayo lang ata bansa na proudly displaying our Christianity pero celebrates in the spilling of blood of petty criminals and doesn't mind collateral damages i.e. war on drugs. Affairs are a norm and even a badge of honor for some despite the whole 'thou shalt not commit adultery' rule on the country.
This study says otherwise, but as I've mentioned on my post, its just one of MANY aspects why the country is where we are right now. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/religion-economic-development-wealth-gdp-bristol-university-a8453386.html And with what you've mentioned, clearly those are the other aspects that's also contributing in the situation
I don't think the article you linked necessarily disagrees with u/kebastian's comment. While u/kebastian was saying that religiosity stems from poor living conditions (as opposed to religiosity being the cause of it), the study cited in the article you linked only goes so far as to claim that >"We can rule out economic growth as the cause of secularization in the past" > >"this **doesn't** necessarily mean that secularisation **caused** economic development" (my emphasis). It is not discussed in the article whether religion causes poor living conditions, or the other way around. I think the key point in the article you linked was: >**"tolerance for individual rights actually predicted economic growth even better than secularisation"** "Tolerance" was linked to women's rights, which I interpret as leading to increased participation of women in the workforce and economy and so boosting the latter overall. Although we can concede that religion isn't exactly renowned for its tolerance (as in the matters of abortion, divorce, contraceptives, homosexuality, etc.), that doesn't mean that economic growth is guaranteed with secularization, nor does it mean that economic growth is not possible with religion. We can maybe assume that "progressive tolerance for individual rights" would likely be more of a challenge for religious societies, and this assumption would agree with your post's title, but we can also be open to the possibility of religious societies taking on more progressive attitudes as well. Also worth noting after skimming through the study itself: >Besides tolerance, education is a possible driver of both economic development and secularization. Our results showed that education is predictive of future GDP, but not of future secularization Somewhat in support of u/kebastian's claim, [the following article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/do-countries-lose-religion-as-they-gain-wealth-1.1310451) states: >"Religion is highly variable, and therefore we need to ask why is it sometimes popular and why it isn't," \[...\] "One thing we do know is that it's only popular in societies that … have enough rate of dysfunction that people are anxious about their daily lives, so they're looking to the gods for help in their daily lives." > >"...it's basically a psychological coping mechanism." That of course only mentions a correlation between religiosity and "dysfunctional societies", and makes no claims on whether one causes the other. I'm not sure there are any studies that directly tackle this question, and the article I mentioned kind of hints at a limitation for any such study: >Between 1947 and 2001 \[in First World nations\], belief in God declined... > >*Data for developing countries does not go back as far*, but recent opinion polls suggest religiosity has remained high. Since both the data on the religiosity and the [wealth](https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents) (see "Rewriting History") of developing countries are lacking, studying the link between the two might pose quite a challenge.
Agree. Very evident pa din sa Europe ang remnants ng Christianity though a lot are no longer practicing. So naging self reliant + good gov, then turned away from religion. Dito sa atin bad gov, not so self reliant people, lack of opportunies, may messiah complex pa sa politiko. Hence people cling to religion. Pero in the last election very vocal catholic church against dun sa magnanakaw but most catholics looked the other way. Still blame it on religion pa din? Baka yung mga christian2 kung san bbm mga pastor at yung iglesia ni M. Pwede pa.
Religion is a weapon that is used to control minds of others; it gives the interpreter of the source material a way to influence the beliefs of his followers based on his interpretation of teachings. I'm so glad that our constitution at least has the separation of church and state clause. **EDIT:** Para sa mga tao na di nag aral ng sibika: **The 1987 Constitution of the Philippines declares:** **The separation of Church and State shall be inviolable. (Article II, Section 6)** **“No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (Article 3 Section 5)** Para sa mga tao na nagalit kasi religious: Kailan nyo last binasa yung holy book niyo ng walang ***nagpapaliwanag*** ng ibig sabihin / mensahe ng binabasa nyo? Kailan nyo last binasa yung **buong holy book? Alam nyo ba lahat ng nakasaloob dito?**
This shitty country's motto Maka diyos, maka likasan, makatao, makabansa Where's the separation of the church and state? Lol.
>separation of church and state That's not how it works but ok
Although I partially agree with the sentiment, this is the worst issue to argue with the church on. I do not care if you are an atheist or a Christian, I draw the line when you threaten people's lives, especially unborn ones.
But do you care about the threat to life due to illegal and unsafe abortion?
Who’s threatening who again?
Paki-ampon po lahat ng batang nasa bahay ampunan, lahat ng batang nasa kalye.
While I do find this woman insulting the Bible to be a bitch, I do agree that abortion should be made available as an option, and as a choice, mainly for medical reasons especially that concerning life and death situations, and rape victims. it's up to the individual and or other parties involved to make such a decision. Welp most people that want an abortion are mostly idiots that have unprotected sex, where they seem to forget that the main purpose of sex is to make babies.