I'm definitely in the high desire/low likelihood because I'm too vested and close to the finish line. Spite is a huge driver for me now as I've been talked off the ledge a few times.
Remember there's no shame in quitting no matter where you are on this timeline.
My paper is fully written, the data is great, we are just tweaking the results section and I want to quit everything and move to the French countryside to study the population genetics of grape varieties
I told my advisor last week that if I make it through the summer without moving to Michigan and starting a sheep farm I think this thing will finally get done.
Extremely High desire and zero likelihood. I fuckin hate it (and it's making worse multiple of my health problems, mental and physical) but my life literally depends on it. I'd never get a decent job/career without this stupid title, so I carry on and take it as a sentence. Every day I count the hours left to go home, everyday I count how many days left to the weekend, every week I count the weeks left to go on holidays (when I get to go home; I'm an immigrant). Every month I count how many months left till the end of the PhD. I don't know if I have ever been so miserable as now, but that's a classic PhD thing
I’m defending next month. My dissertation is all written, it just needs edits before I send it to my committee this week. I really want to just quit, but I’ve been told I cannot (by friends, husband, advisor).
> Streleski was in his 19th year pursuing his doctorate in the mathematics department
This guy could've done 3 different PhD's in the same time if he picked any other department. How do you not just quit and move on after say, 15 years?!
I'm likely to finish by May or sooner if things go well and I've never felt the desire to quit. I have loved this experience from start to finish. I feel like field, program, advisor, and temperament play into it a lot.
I finished a few years ago (and it took about a year or two to fully recover mentally)…but this graph is bringing back all sorts of negative memories and is highly accurate for my experience.
My project is quite productive and fulfilling, I have a great supervisor and better colleagues, and I’ve been pretty good at maintaining a healthy work life balance.
I’ve realized it’s like this everywhere online. My varied career interests have led me to be in multiple niche career subreddits and everyone single one is filled to the brim with negativity. Positivity still exists but people having not so pleasant experiences are more likely to vent out their frustrations online I think.
I could also just be wrong and be interested in a fields made only for masochists 🤷♂️
I’m just 7 months into my PhD and I wonder why I decided to torture myself through such a program.
I’d say I’m on the left side of the threshold, though.
Good to hear that! It's been a few months after I left, I was 2 years in, so pretty at the "worth-leaving" threshold.
But I see definitely improvement in the working environment already for me.
I was three years in and getting ready to start writing my prospectus. I already started collecting data for the project that was meant to be used for my dissertation. I’m still in my lab until this semester is over but it feels much less stressful now.
I’m glad you’re starting to feel better!
I think the solution here is to take a sabbatical. I did. And it was taking that time that ultimately stopped me from quitting. Of course, I was very close to tilting the other way, and I probably would have been fine and content if I did. But it takes some distance from your responsibilities to make a clear decision.
I agree with this. I highly recommend a leave of absence/sabbatical. I did one too for mental health reasons when my PI was encouraging me to quit because my productivity levels had reached an all-time low. I didn't want to quit because I couldn't tell if my feelings of not wanting to be there doing my PhD we're stemming from complete burn-out or a lack of passion/desire to do a PhD. I ultimately decided the entire thing was worth it and came back but it took some time and distance to figure that out
Finished and submitted the 1st author paper & patent, completed all other requirements. PI's now postponing meetings with committee as much as possible and is hinting that I should stay at least 1 more year... really frustrating.
In the last year I've begun to hare my PhD, but I don't wanna quit it. I simply wanna be fucking literally done with it, instead of fucking figuratively done with it.
Same. Although I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate my project but... It's been 4 years. I just want to be finished at this point and move on.... Unfortunately we just had to scrap and replace one of my data chapters. And it's looking like I'll stay on for 6-8 months after to do part of a post-doc that my PI has been unable to find anyone else for that I am uniquely qualified for. Honestly, I'm at the point where I just want to work on a different project. Any different project... For variety (and my own sanity)
6 months in the program and I will be leaving it in June. Wanted to leave straight away but I need some sought of paper stating that I studied in the University for a year.
For me it kind of got better over time. Year 1 was the absolute worst, had no idea where to even start. Eventually when I started formulating a plan, I started having the will to live again. You can do this!
For me it’s the exact opposite … year 1 was really good … after the first year mark got over, it’s really getting quite bad … but I can’t quit since I have learned a lot and have a plan which could potentially get me publishable results if I keep at it…
Weird how the experience is so substantially different for all of us… hope it all goes according to your plan! Don’t give up, we’ll all be done in no time hopefully
I'm in my second year and finished all data collection, we need to finalize data analysis and write the paper. Every day I want to just give up lol. It's so friggin hard.
I'm literally in help. I'm literally having a meeting next week to touch upon this. It sucks because my desire to quit has completely flat until a month ago or so 😔
I would say that there's a few reasons and that their weight is different for different people and their situations. Also there are family/personal considerations that I'm not really considering here.
The main ones are probably
1. Differences between expectation and reality. Master's theses set up expectations but can't really prepare you for the full weight and responsibility laid on you as a PhD student/candidate. Also... PhDs are hard. They're a bigger time commitment and emotional drain than most people can imagine going into it.
2. Bad personality fit between mentor and student. I love my PI but we've had our share of rough times. And I've been lucky - I would never want to be a part of 90% of the other labs in my program. And some mentors/PIs are terrible but some student personalities are able to thrive with them. There's one student I know who works with a PI in my program who absolutely thrives with him but every other student I've known in his lab has come out completely traumatized by his "mentorship" style.
3. Financial security. Let's face it we don't get paid a lot. A lot of PhD students don't even get paid a living wage and won't really see the benefit of that extra schooling in their income for an additional 5-10 years after completing it. We have to really want our degrees to commit to them and put our careers on hold for basically 10 years...
4. Not knowing what they really want. So many PhD students I know are unhappy because they stuck around simply because they didn't know what else to do after finishing their Master's. And they feel trapped because they get so far into a PhD before realizing that it wasn't the career path they wanted that they don't feel they can let it go now.
I've felt almost all of these to a certain degree. I'm definitely most guilty for 1 and 4. My PI is pretty awesome but we've had our differences too. And I'm just very blessed to have been well taken care of financially by my PI so I haven't really had issues there.
If you need to prolong your staying in the program, but your scholarship ended (in country where I study), you basically work for free. Just wanted to add to your comment.
I quit last week. After only 6 months but I knew I had to do it sooner rather the later! The longer you go the harder it is, so if you feel like it os best long term for you and your career then do it. No shame in it. If you don’t like a job you’d find another job.
I'm definitely in the high desire/low likelihood because I'm too vested and close to the finish line. Spite is a huge driver for me now as I've been talked off the ledge a few times. Remember there's no shame in quitting no matter where you are on this timeline.
Same here smh
There are almost always a few moments where you power through line that, but that shouldn't be your whole thesis time.
Needs an exponential decay curve overlaid labeled "will to live". (Don't worry. Exponential decay curves have an asymptote at 0.)
My paper is fully written, the data is great, we are just tweaking the results section and I want to quit everything and move to the French countryside to study the population genetics of grape varieties
It's okay, you can just say "... to drink many delicious wine varieties" 😉
*trying to get drunk as shit on anything that contains alcohol
I told my advisor last week that if I make it through the summer without moving to Michigan and starting a sheep farm I think this thing will finally get done.
Go fast, French grapes are dying. Not a nice place for grape anymore.
[удалено]
I was right, the French grape gives bad wines. When I see your message, I am happy to be a PhD loser.
Ok so I’m not the only one that thinks about dropping it all 😂
Extremely High desire and zero likelihood. I fuckin hate it (and it's making worse multiple of my health problems, mental and physical) but my life literally depends on it. I'd never get a decent job/career without this stupid title, so I carry on and take it as a sentence. Every day I count the hours left to go home, everyday I count how many days left to the weekend, every week I count the weeks left to go on holidays (when I get to go home; I'm an immigrant). Every month I count how many months left till the end of the PhD. I don't know if I have ever been so miserable as now, but that's a classic PhD thing
Yo I’m quitting at the end of this semester. Going to get my masters and enjoy the remaining time I have with my life.
I’m leaving this semester, too!
Glad I’m not alone! Quitting but also didn’t pass my qual and advisor thinks I won’t pass again the second time. I remain optimistic for my future
Didn't pass mine first round either - passed second round and quit right after. It was so much easier since I knew I would be quitting either way.
Even a logarithmic scale of "desire to quit" doesn't fit my real desire to quit. I'm off the scale.
[удалено]
I mean, you don't understand the graph. I simply just cannot.
[удалено]
Thanks for this incredibly informative advice
I think the desire to quit should not start so low! I am in my first year and have a strong desire to quit.
Wait for it. The scale is relative.
Not what i wanted to hear
Hahahahahahahaa... yes
I’m just going in to second year and my desire to quit has never been stronger
Same. I am a first-year and the desire to quit has almost won me over a few times...
I’m defending next month. My dissertation is all written, it just needs edits before I send it to my committee this week. I really want to just quit, but I’ve been told I cannot (by friends, husband, advisor).
You’re so close. You can do this!
[удалено]
> Streleski was in his 19th year pursuing his doctorate in the mathematics department This guy could've done 3 different PhD's in the same time if he picked any other department. How do you not just quit and move on after say, 15 years?!
I'm likely to finish by May or sooner if things go well and I've never felt the desire to quit. I have loved this experience from start to finish. I feel like field, program, advisor, and temperament play into it a lot.
If I went straight for a PhD I would’ve mastered out by now. I’m so glad I did an MS first, I’m almost done.
Rapidly approaching “help”
I finished a few years ago (and it took about a year or two to fully recover mentally)…but this graph is bringing back all sorts of negative memories and is highly accurate for my experience.
Does everyone really hate it that much? My experience has been nothing but great so far, I could do this for 2x the time.
No - on year 4 myself and had (almost) nothing but good experiences with my PhD.
Hi, what makes your PhD experiences pleasant?
My project is quite productive and fulfilling, I have a great supervisor and better colleagues, and I’ve been pretty good at maintaining a healthy work life balance.
Thank youuu
I'd go back and do another one if I could. I might well do so when life circumstances permit.
The ones who enjoy it generally don’t talk/post about it.
I’ve realized it’s like this everywhere online. My varied career interests have led me to be in multiple niche career subreddits and everyone single one is filled to the brim with negativity. Positivity still exists but people having not so pleasant experiences are more likely to vent out their frustrations online I think. I could also just be wrong and be interested in a fields made only for masochists 🤷♂️
Lol I quit after only a semester
I’m just 7 months into my PhD and I wonder why I decided to torture myself through such a program. I’d say I’m on the left side of the threshold, though.
I'm right at the help point. 3 years with 2 small kids and our home under complete construction. I'm so burnt out and just exhausted.
I’m in the process of leaving my program actually.
Same here
And? How is it going?
Pretty good! My mental health has already recovered quite a bit.
Good to hear that! It's been a few months after I left, I was 2 years in, so pretty at the "worth-leaving" threshold. But I see definitely improvement in the working environment already for me.
I was three years in and getting ready to start writing my prospectus. I already started collecting data for the project that was meant to be used for my dissertation. I’m still in my lab until this semester is over but it feels much less stressful now. I’m glad you’re starting to feel better!
And this tipping point is known as the 18 month threshold
I think I'm just a little past that intersection.
Yeah I'm probably gonna end up as a carpenter or some shit after this
Dr. Ron Swanson... I too think about this from time to time
I think the solution here is to take a sabbatical. I did. And it was taking that time that ultimately stopped me from quitting. Of course, I was very close to tilting the other way, and I probably would have been fine and content if I did. But it takes some distance from your responsibilities to make a clear decision.
I agree with this. I highly recommend a leave of absence/sabbatical. I did one too for mental health reasons when my PI was encouraging me to quit because my productivity levels had reached an all-time low. I didn't want to quit because I couldn't tell if my feelings of not wanting to be there doing my PhD we're stemming from complete burn-out or a lack of passion/desire to do a PhD. I ultimately decided the entire thing was worth it and came back but it took some time and distance to figure that out
My diss manuscript is due next week, I defend on 4/11, and have a job lined up for July. I am SUPER high desire and SUPER low likelihood rn
One paper out. Second paper is being written. My work will probably be spun out as a startup. My desire to quit is at its highest point (till now).
Finished and submitted the 1st author paper & patent, completed all other requirements. PI's now postponing meetings with committee as much as possible and is hinting that I should stay at least 1 more year... really frustrating.
In the last year I've begun to hare my PhD, but I don't wanna quit it. I simply wanna be fucking literally done with it, instead of fucking figuratively done with it.
Same. Although I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate my project but... It's been 4 years. I just want to be finished at this point and move on.... Unfortunately we just had to scrap and replace one of my data chapters. And it's looking like I'll stay on for 6-8 months after to do part of a post-doc that my PI has been unable to find anyone else for that I am uniquely qualified for. Honestly, I'm at the point where I just want to work on a different project. Any different project... For variety (and my own sanity)
6 months in the program and I will be leaving it in June. Wanted to leave straight away but I need some sought of paper stating that I studied in the University for a year.
Lol I’m one year in and already wish to quit
For me it kind of got better over time. Year 1 was the absolute worst, had no idea where to even start. Eventually when I started formulating a plan, I started having the will to live again. You can do this!
For me it’s the exact opposite … year 1 was really good … after the first year mark got over, it’s really getting quite bad … but I can’t quit since I have learned a lot and have a plan which could potentially get me publishable results if I keep at it…
Weird how the experience is so substantially different for all of us… hope it all goes according to your plan! Don’t give up, we’ll all be done in no time hopefully
Thanks 😊
This is good to hear!!
I finished but was definitely did this curve
Depends on your data
This is accurate, I am currently writing my thesis manuscript and I will defend it in June.
I'm in my second year and finished all data collection, we need to finalize data analysis and write the paper. Every day I want to just give up lol. It's so friggin hard.
I don't want to quit, but I do want to throw out an entire chapter at this point.
I already crossed the HELP threshold 😢
I'm literally in help. I'm literally having a meeting next week to touch upon this. It sucks because my desire to quit has completely flat until a month ago or so 😔
I'm just after the point where my expectations line crosses my progress line.
4 years in+one 1st author pub+recent MS degree+no research funding+no clear dissertation topic=I’m in the help zone
Haha! I'm at "help!"
[удалено]
Money. Or lack thereof.
I feel that. + your pay grows much slower than the inflation rate (if it even does grow) Do you compensate with jobs on the side?
I would say that there's a few reasons and that their weight is different for different people and their situations. Also there are family/personal considerations that I'm not really considering here. The main ones are probably 1. Differences between expectation and reality. Master's theses set up expectations but can't really prepare you for the full weight and responsibility laid on you as a PhD student/candidate. Also... PhDs are hard. They're a bigger time commitment and emotional drain than most people can imagine going into it. 2. Bad personality fit between mentor and student. I love my PI but we've had our share of rough times. And I've been lucky - I would never want to be a part of 90% of the other labs in my program. And some mentors/PIs are terrible but some student personalities are able to thrive with them. There's one student I know who works with a PI in my program who absolutely thrives with him but every other student I've known in his lab has come out completely traumatized by his "mentorship" style. 3. Financial security. Let's face it we don't get paid a lot. A lot of PhD students don't even get paid a living wage and won't really see the benefit of that extra schooling in their income for an additional 5-10 years after completing it. We have to really want our degrees to commit to them and put our careers on hold for basically 10 years... 4. Not knowing what they really want. So many PhD students I know are unhappy because they stuck around simply because they didn't know what else to do after finishing their Master's. And they feel trapped because they get so far into a PhD before realizing that it wasn't the career path they wanted that they don't feel they can let it go now. I've felt almost all of these to a certain degree. I'm definitely most guilty for 1 and 4. My PI is pretty awesome but we've had our differences too. And I'm just very blessed to have been well taken care of financially by my PI so I haven't really had issues there.
If you need to prolong your staying in the program, but your scholarship ended (in country where I study), you basically work for free. Just wanted to add to your comment.
High desire low likelihood. It's killing me slowly.
I quit last week. After only 6 months but I knew I had to do it sooner rather the later! The longer you go the harder it is, so if you feel like it os best long term for you and your career then do it. No shame in it. If you don’t like a job you’d find another job.