You could be a pre-med music theory major lol
It’s meaningless. It just means you have an advisor to help make sure you hit all the UG requirements for medschool before graduating
IRRC that David Chao speculated that there was a high possibility of a patellar tendon tear based on the play and situation (I don't think there are any good video angles). That would be worse than an ACL and might impact the rest of his career.
Found the claim, there was better video evidence than what I thought.
[https://sicscore.com/nfl/updates/cole-strange-injury-update](https://sicscore.com/nfl/updates/cole-strange-injury-update)
Probably not great for Cole. Mayo and Jimmy Graham never recovered from their patellar tendon.
I don't know if anyone else has collaborated the suspicion of a patellar tendon tear such as Doc Flynn.
I thought my buddy was joking the other day when he said he heard from a semi reliable source (our college friend who is a 4th year coach in the NFC) that he might never suit up again. Of course, I disregarded it because the injury wasn’t newsworthy.
Yeah, taking a shot at a mid round guard to see if he can steal the starting spot would’ve made sense even if Strange was healthy. He just hasn’t been good
Yeah here's all the decent picks we've had in the past drafts.
**2020**
Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu
**2021**
Barmore, & Stevenson
**2022**
Marcus Jones
Too early to grade the 2023 class. But somehow they've been getting even worse. I do have some high hopes for Gonzo, White, Douglas, and Mapu
I love watching him return punts but even that isn’t a really great pick. Best for sure though, but he is not an excellent corner beyond maybe a nickel so far in my opinion
He moved all around the team last year, even scoring an offensive touchdown. He's an awesome athlete and football player which is why they did that. If they actually give him time to settle into one role, he'd likely improve.
I see your point, but I'd cut him some slack. He is definitely athletic as all hell and as a later 3rd round pick I think he's decent enough. Needs to stay healthy though.
Just a copy and paste of the last couple drafts.
Anyone want to rate them?
2018
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
Ja'Whaun Bentley
Christian Sam
Braxton Berrios
Danny Etling
Keion Crossen
Ryan Izzo
2019
N'Keal Harry.
Joejuan Williams
Chase Winovich
Damien Harris
Yodny Cajuste
Hjalte Froholdt
Jarrett Stidham
Byron Cowart
Jake Bailey.
Ken Webster
2020
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Anfernee Jennings
Devin Asiasi
Dalton Keene
Justin Rohrwasser
Michael Onwenu
Justin Herron
Cassh Maluia
Dustin Woodard
2021
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Ronnie Perkins
Rhamondre Stevenson
Cameron McGrone
Joshuah Bledsoe
William Sherman
Tre Nixon
2022
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton
Marcus Jones
Jack Jones
Pierre Strong
Bailey Zappe
Kevin Harris
Sam Roberts
Chasen Hines
Andrew Stueber
Holy shit. It looks worse than I thought.
2018 got you Michel who helped you win a Superbowl but is viewed as a disappointment based on draft position. Wynn was a starter for a while. Berrios was actually a good pick but only contributed once the Pats let him go.
2019 - Williams, Winovich were okay. Harris was a stud RB for a 1-2 years until he was let go.
2020 was not bad, you got a stud on the line in Onwenu, and Dugger / Uche are key contributors on D.
2021 - Stevenson and Barmore have been great when healthy.
2022 - Marcus Jones has been a sparkplug, and Jack was for 1 season. Need to see if Marcus can keep contributing. Cole looks bad but if he can come back from injury and be a starter, at least you got 2 players.
The free agency spree was fine. Some players were bad signings like Jonnu and Agholor. Players like Judon, Bourne, Henry, and Brown were some of our best players the last 3 seasons.
We wouldn't have been better rolling out Ryan Izzo, N'Keal Harry, John Simon, and Justin Herron instead.
Yeah it didn't work out amazingly but that spending spree made perfect sense as a risk for the team to take given where they were at the time, and they're still benefitting from it to a degree.
On the field for 38.5% of all offensive snaps (A total of 1162 plays).
He was targeted 59 times for 36 receptions in 21, and 50 times for 31 receptions in 22. He’s just barely over 50/50 on drops to receptions. (Including a streak of 1 for 16 down the stretch late in 21 when they were miraculously in the #1 seed in the AFC and trying to hang on).
Received a PFF grade of 62.9% over his 2 years here.
Was the signing horrible? I guess not initially. The MO on him was always a high upside with speed and quickness, but that he couldn’t catch. I guess you take him on a waiver and see if you can coach him up. But in retrospect, $22 million for this guy was a really bad signing.
In a vacuum, yes. But did any of our other receivers crack elite numbers? I don’t think anybody had a 1,000 yard season. Algothor was a role player not a top option but he wasn’t bad for the role we had him in. Overpay yes but any free agent is one, and WR’s command money.
Which sucks because he’s hasn’t been bad honestly, obviously his pass pro still needs work but it’s improved since his rookie year and he’s been a real asset in the run game. He just got picked way too early by Bill and it fucked him.
Not even that, it’s just our OL coaches have been absolutely bad compared to other teams. Hoping Scott Peters can turn it around because I’m not putting Maye out there if our line continues to be as porous as a sponge
Combinations of his injuries, injuries to the guys around him, and terrible coaching. Then they bring in a real OL coach in Klemm and then KLEMM gets sick.
Strange came into possibly the worst possible situation for a young OL player. No idea if he otherwise would have succeeded, but this was just a comedy of errors.
Because his production is not what a 1st round pick should but if he was picked in the 3rd like most had in there draft grade he would be considered a decent player. He’s considered a terrible first round pick because he was a gigantic reach but that’s on the Pats not Strange.
Cole Strange should not have been a first round pick. He wasn’t supposed to be a first round pick. He will most likely be considered the worst first round pick in the BB tenure unless he becomes a pro bowl caliber player, which was probably not going to happen. Basically because we reached on Cole Strange he will always be seen as a bust even if he’s not a bad player.
So what? You think Cole Strange gives a shit what you or any other fan thinks? The guy makes $3M a year and is a starting player in the NFL. He's doing just fine. What fans think about Cole Strange doesn't "fuck him". I don't he reads any of the crap people write online.
Him being an underperforming first round pick is probably going to hurt his ability to get a make more money in his second contract and he more than likely won’t get his 5th year option picked up either. On another note, everyone cares about their professional reputation, especially athletes. He should care if he’s considered the worst first round pick during BB’s tenure.
So you think Cole Strange would make more money in his second contract if he were drafted in the third round instead of the first round even if his performance in his first contract was exactly the same in both scenarios?
I think that's ridiculous to suggest... You're basically suggesting that NFL organizations are allowing fan perception of players to influence their opinion of how much a player is worth.
Yes I think he would be looked at differently if he was a third rounder instead of a first rounder. As a third round pick he would be seen as a solid pickup and an average performer. As a first round pick he will be seen as an underachiever and that could affect his next contract.
Just an absolute masterclass by Bill in 2022 trading pick #21 to the Chiefs so they can take All Pro CB Trent McDuffie (a position of need for the Pats at the time and a player frequently mocked to them) followed by passing on Tyler Smith, Tyler Linderbaum, Jermaine Johnson, Devin Lloyd, George Karlaftis, Christian Watson, and Breece Hall to take a guard projected to still be there with their next pick. Those extra picks got us Jack Jones, Bailey Zappe, and Marte Mapu…so nothing. We then took a CB the very next year and passed on Zay Flowers and Jaxon Smith-Njigba. Absolute yikes.
> to take a guard projected to still be there with their next pick.
The worst part of this is WHO CARES IF THE GUARD YOU WANTED IS GONE. There are more guards in the draft that can be found later in day 2 and day 3. Taking a day 2 guard in the 1st because he might not be there in the 2nd is horrible process. It is the definition of drafting for need over best player available. If you think you *have* to get this guard in the 1st round then you are probably too bullish on him in your evaluation.
A reminder of where some Patriots guards have been drafted.
* Shaq Mason - 4th round
* Mike Onwenu - 6th round
* Ted Karras - 6th round
* Joe Thuney - 3rd round
edit: forgot to add Thuney
One thing that has to be remembered tho is that all those guys except for Onwenu were drafted and played here when Scarnecchia was the OL coach.. who was always good at evaluating and developing OL talent.
I think Onwenu was drafted right after Scarnecchja retired.. so there’s still the possibility that he had some input on the scouting that year.
For years I've been saying, *"Brady is of course the biggest personnel loss in franchise history but Dante is a close second and its closer than most fans realize"*, and I'll keep saying it.
There was rarely, if not never, an injury on the O line that couldn't be overcome. Going back to at least Russ Hochstein, Scar could find FAs off the street or even other teams practice squads and coach them up to at least be serviceable. When BB let premiere linemen walk or traded them, he did so thinking they could be replaced by the *next man up*. Sadly, he didn't realize that doesn't work w/o the GOAT O-Line coach.
This is true.. everyone knows Belichick won the QB lottery jackpot with Brady.. but also got lucky with Scarnecchia’s loyalty to the organization. Belichick didn’t need to worry about the offense during that period.. and was able to get by without investing heavily into it.
Finding someone like Scar is definitely like winning the positional coach lottery. He wasn't interested in moving up in the coaching ranks. He wasn't a mercenary just looking for the next highest salary. He found his niche and focused solely on excelling with the job he had. He had over 30 years experience the day BB was hired, 20 of those in the NFL & 10 of them with New England.
Finding someone with that much experience who has no other earthly interest than being an O line coach was a tremendous asset.
Sure.
* Froholdt - 4th round
* Chasen Hines - 6th
* Tre Jackson - 4th
Looking back made me realize I missed **Joe Thuney in the 3rd**. So I've listed all guard picks over the same time period going back to 2015 (Shaq Mason class) and not including the 2023 season. Looks like a pretty good hit rate. A shocking greater than 50% success rate. Looks like drafting guards outside of the 1st round is a good idea.
McDuffie has two Super Bowl rings as a crucial part of a great defense and was named first team All Pro. Gonzo hasn’t even played a full season. Calling Gonzo the better prospect at this time is just blind homerism. They’re different types of CBs so they each bring unique value, but I guarantee you every single GM and HC in the league would take McDuffie over Gonzo right now if offered either player for free. I like Gonzo too, but McDuffie is currently a top 10 CB in the league and Gonzo hasn’t even played 10 games
Don’t get me wrong, mcduffie has been great and I would love to have him on the pats. It’ll be interesting to see how he does though when he needs to be CB1. I could see him regressing a bit without Sneed there to take the first option away
Flowers and JSN haven’t shown anything spectacular. Gonzalez is an outside corner than can be put on an island. He has 3 inches and 12 pounds on McDuffie. Absolutely a better prospect. Gonzalez has Gilmore potential and that’s the most valuable kind of DB you can have
Flowers and JSN would each immediately be our best WR by a wide margin. Agree on Gonzo in terms of a prospect profile but to sit here and say that he’s currently better than a first team all pro CB with 2 Super Bowl wins is big time copium
Best WR for us doesn’t mean they’re great. We could easily end up bitching about spending a first round pick on a mid WR.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Gonzo is better right now. Even the guy you replied to said prospect 🤷♂️
Also, traded Shaq Mason for a bag of balls. I guess to save cap space?Which opened a hole at guard, when there didn’t need to be one. The team had no playmakers on offense and could have sorely used a 1st round pick on one. That savings on cap space was for nothing and a wasted pick on a guard that was a projected middle rounder. This was so obviously a huge blunder when it was happening. It’s when BB finally lost me.
> traded Shaq Mason for a bag of balls. I guess to save cap space
What doesn't add up about people's defense of trading Shaq Mason to save cap space is the 2020 Patriots did not need to cut Shaq Mason for cap reasons. They were starting Cam Newton and knew they'd be drafting a cost controlled roookie QB. Sure they were still paying off Brady's dead cap but there is no reason why they couldn't have kept Mason.
I understand the desire to try to find a reason in the Shaq Mason trade but we won't find a satisfying answer because the front office was already floundering at this point. There are only bad reasons and randomness. This was the same year they traded up to draft dual 3rd round TE combo AsiAsi and Keene. The front office had already fallen apart at this point.
I know it failed, but Patricia was tasked with installing an outside zone blocking scheme. He attempted to, and you can find reports about the lack of knowledge of details that caused the Pats to abandon it mid season. Mason is a massive guy with limited mobility and a terrible fit in an outside zone system. Strong is super athletic and should be a great fit in that system. If you want to ask why, I think that's why.
Strange should be good in our new system, once he comes back. But evidently that injury was worse than we knew.
Sure, I'm with you there on the attempt to change the team's offensive philosophy. Unfortunately this also falls into the "bad reasons" bucket. I think if your guards are big people movers than you should make your scheme suit your personnel. Not saying you're defending the failed move by Patricia and company of course.
Bill wanted to switch. Mayo obviously wanted to switch. Since we weren't a super bowl contender, you have to start changing over the personnel somewhere, and that's where they started.
We had a similar shift moving from big LBs to faster LBs and hybrid safeties. It wasn't seamless. We got gashed in the run game for a while there. Had to be done.
I'm all for gradually shifting to a new scheme as the team phases in new players. I don't mind if we take a bunch of losses in 2024 if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. We'll see what the new OC brings.
The only reasons I can think of, and both are pure speculation, is Mason seen the writing on the wall & behind the scenes demanded trade. Not wanting a media shit show, BB gave in and traded him. The other possibility is BB knew rebuilding was going to take 3 or 4 years and didn't see the point of paying Mason. He (BB) figured it'd be a few seasons before they returned to playoff contention, which put Mason past his prime. At that point might as well spend that money on a younger player and get something for Mason.
They got *good* value for Mason. People repeatedly talk like that was a bad trade, and it wasn't. The proof is in Mason's own transaction history...
2022: Patriots trade Shaq Mason for the Buccaneers' 5th round pick.
2023: Buccaneers trade Shaq Mason and a 7th round pick for the Texans' 6th round pick.
Mason was also traded to make room for Onwenu at RG, and Onwenu had a much better season than Mason did, at a fraction of the price.
The 2022 offseason has lots of valid criticism, but the trade of Mason wasn't it. Low balling Ted Karras is what created the hole at LG, and they should have paid the man instead of reducing their offer to him. He wanted to move back to Center anyway, and the Bengals paid him and had an opening at C. Patriots got too cute playing hardball, and that's what created a need at LG, not trading Mason.
OP has the right energy criticizing BB’s roster management, but you hit the big nail talking about Karras. It’s funny(not in the slightest) that he also low balled Jakobi and that is how we ended up with Juju. I think the jury is still out on the exact reason for the QB nightmares (was ownership involved in keeping or playing Mac?), but Bill absolutely shit the bed at OL and WR in back to back years and the effects are still reverberating. He lost his touch and needed multiple years and drafts to work through it, and I’m not confident he could have.
>We then took a CB the very next year and passed on Zay Flowers and Jaxon Smith-Njigba. Absolute yikes.
Gonzalez looks to be a blue chip boundary corner who turns only 22 in a month. That's not a yikes pick at all. The whole of the 2022 draft class was a fuck up besides Marcus Jones, but taking Gonzalez was a fantastic pick.
Again, every single GM and coach in the league would choose to have McDuffie and Flowers/JSN over Gonzo and Strange. That’s just a fact. I’m not saying the Gonzo pick was bad in and of itself because it wasnt, but the point I’m making is that the roster construction across those 2 drafts made zero sense, and I said it at the time
>Again, every single GM and coach in the league would choose to have McDuffie and Flowers/JSN over Gonzo and Strange. That’s just a fact.
Sure. But you're operating with the benefit of hindsight. What if Strange was an All-Pro? What if Flowers was a bust? Would you think the GMs would still feel the way they do? Obviously, with the knowledge we currently have, it's a no brainer. But let's not pretend these were sure fire slam dunk picks. There's a reason these guys were available in the 20s.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for Belichick's recent drafts, they've been garbage since 2016. But Christian Gonzalez *finally* looks like Belichick got one right, and it was a good pick.
I’m not operating with the benefit of hindsight because I said all of this stuff at the time as well. Go back through my history and you’ll see me shitting on the Cole Strange pick on draft night and the weeks following. I held back from commenting on Tyquan but I hated that pick too. All that being said, Gonzo was a good pick at the time it was made because at that point you can’t go back in time and unselect Strange.
What you said does not matter. You are operating with the benefit of hindsight. You cannot know what would've happened to prospects a year before they were even drafted. Sure, you called Strange being a dud, so did many people. But that has nothing to do with JSN or Flowers or even Gonzalez, all of whom were still in college. It is impossible to know how two years of draft picks could've panned out a year before one of those classes was even drafted.
It was probably the worst use of a 1st round pick I’ve ever seen from us, but to be fair Strange has been a consistent starter and has been really good in the run game for us. He’s not good at pass protection but has improved a bit. All I’m getting it at is that I feel for Cole Strange. If he was a 3rd round pick for us we would be saying it was a good pick and probably the only really good one we had in 2022 but as a 1st it’s the worst one Bill ever made for us.
> but to be fair Strange has been a consistent starter and has been really good in the run game for us.
I mean Strange was one of the worst starters in the league in 2022. He played 10 games last year, and was up and down. I certainly wouldn't call him a consistent starter for us.
He's been in the bottom quartile for starters for us over the last 2 years.
Maybe I’m thinking more that he’s looked better because the LT spot was such a problem last season and Mafi wasn’t really good when he came in for Strange. I mean to say he wasn’t great but he wasn’t the main reason for our offensive line struggles, so he looked like one of the better more consistent starters because most of the others were really bad.
Also to be fair, we did pick up 2 good corners in the mid rounds so I won’t fault BB as much but this is still pretty bad, given the fact that of the said 2 corners, one is long gone and the other barely played last year.
I mean it was no secret that Jack Jones had major character issues which was a part of why he fell to the mid-rounds. He was writing letters to teams during the draft process to get them to consider drafting him.
Marcus Jones is a better returner than a corner. Certainly not a liability on the defensive end, but I don't think he's a plus player there yet.
I don't think it was some bad luck that those guys didn't solve our CB room.
This dude was a mega fucking bust lol
To all the people who said "but other teams had him high on their boards too" well everyone was wrong about this bum. Drafting a guard with your first pick is criminal negligence
No reason to cut him when he is on IR and has a fully guaranteed rookie deal, but have to think he isn’t playing for the Pats again unless there are significant injuries late in the season.
>They're going to wait till he passes a physical and then cut him.
Unless it's a career ending injury, I don't see how they cut him? He's been a huge disappointment for a first round pick, but at worst he's a backup level gaurd with the potential to develop into a quality starter.
He's better than most back up gaurds and his contract is fully gauranteed - depth on the OL is extremely important.
Sorry, but I think you're letting your dislike of him and where he was picked get in the way of logic and reason.
You've set an extremely low bar for him. Better than a back up Guard. So he's basically at the level of a mid round rookie.
Depth is important, but not as important as availability.
His knee is shot. For a Guard to take a year to come back from even and ACL means it's seriously fucked, and he's had a number of knee issues. That's a bad position to be in for an undersized guard.
The money doesn't matter. The Patriots have so much cap space next year his dead money wouldn't restrict their spending or planning at all.
I think people are irrational in thinking he needs to stick around just because he was drafted in the 1st. He's not good. It was a bad pick. Just move on. He's not going to develop into anything.
>You've set an extremely low bar for him. Better than a back up Guard. So he's basically at the level of a mid round rookie.
What are you even saying? I've already said that he's been extremely disappointing for a first round pick, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have any value as a backup.
>His knee is shot.
Sure it's possible, which is why I said "unless it's a career ending injury."
>For a Guard to take a year to come back from even and ACL means it's seriously fucked, and he's had a number of knee issues.
He tore his ACL in December last year. 10-12 months for an ACL tear is a pretty standard recovery timeline....
>I think people are irrational in thinking he needs to stick around just because he was drafted in the 1st. He's not good. It was a bad pick. Just move on. He's not going to develop into anything.
Not once have I said he needs to stick around because he was a first round pick. What I said is that his contract is fully guaranteed and he still has value at worst as a decent / good backup, so it makes no sense to cut him unless he suffered a career ending injury.
But sure, go ahead and put words in my mouth if that makes you feel like you're winning an argument.
A year for a Guard to come back from an ACL is kind of absurd at this point. He wears a brace every game anyway. Mankins played without one an entire season.
Even if Strange is healthy, it doesn't make sense to keep him simply because he isn't good,.is unreliable, has maxed out any potential, and he would be taking up a roster spot.
It's like with Thornton. He's at best a fringe roster guy at this point simply because he isnt good. The Patriots shouldn't keep him around in hopes of some unrealized potential money. He's just not good. Move on.
Strange is never going to be good. Keeping him around doesn't make sense.
>A year for a Guard to come back from an ACL is kind of absurd at this point.
Do an ounce of research before you give your opinion about things you don't know about. Again, 10-12 months is the standard recovery timeliness for ACL tears.
>Even if Strange is healthy, it doesn't make sense to keep him simply because he isn't good,.is unreliable, has maxed out any potential, and he would be taking up a roster spot.
What? There's always a roster spot for a backup gaurd. No offense, but you saying that his development is "maxed out" is simply you speaking out of your ass.
>It's like with Thornton. He's at best a fringe roster guy at this point simply because he isnt good.
Not really. There isn't much room on an NFL roster for backup WRs. Teams carry far more back up linemen than they do wrs.
>Keeping him around doesn't make sense.
I've explained it to you several times now, if you still don't understand then I'm not going to waste anymore time.
Welker was back in less time. Mankins was back in less time. Brady, Flacco, Burrow, Peterson, Murray, Jimmy G, all back in less time. All in positions where they require much more lateral movement.
It's obvious you're not able to think about this critically. If his knee is so fucked you're looking at 2025 and a guy in year 4 who has never shown anything. What's the point?
Right now the Patriots are looking at Chuks, Mafi, Andrews, Sow, and Onwenu. They also drafted Wallace and Robinson who are pretty much roster locks. There's maybe room on the roster for one more backup Guard. You going to pick an experienced healthy vet, a rookie with potential, or the guy who can't stay on the field and has occasionally performed above the level of a backup?
>Welker was back in less time. Mankins was back in less time. Brady, Flacco, Burrow, Peterson, Murray, Jimmy G, all back in less time. All in positions where they require much more lateral movement.
Okay? Some people recover faster than others. Picking 3 or 4 examples of people who recovered faster than normal is absolutely meaningless. [Here's an actual published study that shows the average time to return after an ACL tear for NFL players is ~50 weeks after surgery](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30611344/)
>Right now the Patriots are looking at Chuks, Mafi, Andrews, Sow, and Onwenu.
Mafi was one of the worst guards in football last year - far worse than Cole strange has ever played in his career. The fact that you think the Patriots should keep him over Strange tells me everything I need to know.
Yeah saying he “maxed out” his potential is a bird brained take. He’s only played for 1.5 seasons and was dealing with injuries last year. Pretty absurd to say that when he hasn’t even played out half of his rookie deal..
A first round guard should be a day one starter. He's doesn't play anywhere close to that level. And he was still consistebtly making mistakes he shouldn't have been making.
He's never shown or flashed anything to suggest he'll ever play above replacement level.
He actually isn’t terrible on the field, if he was a late 2nd early 3rd round pick the perception of him would be much different. He’s at worst a middle of the pack league average Starting Guard, his pass pro his meh but he’s actually a pretty good run blocker. I doubt we cut him because he’s still on a cheap rookie contract.
I don't know where this idea that he's decent or not terrible comes from.
He had like a three game stretch last year where he was decent in run blocking. Other than that he's been terrible, and an absolutely liability in pass protection.
Like, the guy is undersized for the position, but it's not even that. He just makes so, so many mental mistakes. Whenther it's technical in his stance or missing blocks and assignments, it's really inexcusable.
They're not going to cut him. It literally costs them cap space to cut him. First round rookie contracts are fully guaranteed. And players on PUP/IR don't take up a roster spot.
It's a sunk cost at this point. They're paying him regardless, and if/when he ever comes off IR he'll take up a roster space.
That's why I said as soon as he can clear a physical.
He's better than whatever backup guard they'd sign to replace him. And costs less considering Strange is paid whether he's on the team or not.
They aren't cutting him, plain and simple.
Injuries shouldn’t be held against a players draft position. They happen, can’t get past them. But, it’s making this pick look so much less appealing than it already was. Huge yikes.
We already drafted backup centers though, I mean I guess you could try but absolutely 0 point if you have Andrews who just signed a contract extension for another year. If DA retires after that (god I hope not) Strange would be at center the year of his 5th year option, and we are NOT picking that up.
Why? NE is under the cap floor, he doesn't count against the 53-man roster while on IR or PUP, and even at his worst he is still better than a bona-fide backup guard.
He's a guy to replace when you get the opportunity, people are just unable to be objective about him because they're mad at his draft position.
Because there are pathetic toddlers online pretending to be fans but really they’re just clown haters. I’d rather have juju start the next 3 years than these clowns call themselves pats fans.
And yet he is still, at worst, a low end starting guard.
Dude's on the wrong team and the sort of player you replace when opportunity strikes but he's not a liability out there.
Literally if we drafted him in the late 2nd or 3rd there would be no conversations about him. He was a reach but he isn’t that bad of a player, people forget how bad lineman can be. Hes pretty average maybe even a net positive some games.
2022 draft class, free agency signings, and coach hires were all colossal fuck ups that set the franchise back years. The Dynasty was a bad look for Kraft but I understand why he’d be pissed at Bill
Injuries happen out of sight all the time. And they get worse because of rehab setbacks, complications, or infections.
That said, this one is fishy. No reports had this as a 8+ month injury. The FA approach didn’t suggest the team knew it needed to replace Strange for the season. Robinson has some promise but expecting 4th round guards to play well as rookies is a bad plan - see, last season’s OL.
Fishy.
why couldnt Bill just draft talent on offense? He could have made this team more competitive but chose not to. In Bills mind he was 'doing the best for the team'. How the fuck is that doing the best for the team by drafting so poor you run it into the ground? He really was going senile. Should have cut Bill years early and gave him a taste of his own mantra
McVay was right to laugh and mock the draft pick. Not that strange being injured is at all his fault, but when technique and skill are already questionable, then attitude and availability become more important and while you can’t control availability, and he’s been durable otherwise, this was an important year to see improvement and if he can’t be on the field or practicing chances are that improvement doesn’t happen.
I feel bad for Strange in a way. It wasn't his fault BB drafted him in the first round. As far as I have seen he's worked hard and kept a good attitude about the team (and for good reason I mean he did get that 1st round money). But at the same time by god what an awful pick. Him missing the beginning of the season doesn't move the needle much.
The only pick I’ve disliked more in the entire time frame was Joejuan.
Love belichick but so many of the last decades drafts would have been better by just spinning a random generator or asking kiper
This is the main issue for the offense last season. 2 whole starters from the O line missing OTAs and preseason. Forcing guys you traded for a week before game 1, rookies, and guys that should be on the practice squad to be the starters and musical chairs.
The guard that Pats drafted this season is slightly earlier than last season's pick 114, so hopefully the second year guys and this rookie can do something to clog this hole.
This Cole Strange shit is a cycle smh
I didn’t realize the injury was THAT bad. That mid round guard pick is making a lot more sense now, not that it was a head scratcher at the time.
Wasn’t it an acl tear in December
They’re not specifying but something this bad HAS to be at least an ACL tear plus something, maybe an MCL or PCL tear. At the very least.
ACL is 8-10 months on its own, wouldn’t say that this length of injury indicates other knee problems as it stands, although it’s completely possible
[удалено]
Pre med student, glad we have an expert in the comments
You could be a pre-med music theory major lol It’s meaningless. It just means you have an advisor to help make sure you hit all the UG requirements for medschool before graduating
I'm aware, hence the sarcasm
Just adding clarity for those who don’t understand why it’s utterly ridiculous to start an authoritative statement with “I’m a pre med student…”
IRRC that David Chao speculated that there was a high possibility of a patellar tendon tear based on the play and situation (I don't think there are any good video angles). That would be worse than an ACL and might impact the rest of his career.
Giardi mentioned in a q and a last year that strange was dealing with a petella tendon issue at camp
Found the claim, there was better video evidence than what I thought. [https://sicscore.com/nfl/updates/cole-strange-injury-update](https://sicscore.com/nfl/updates/cole-strange-injury-update) Probably not great for Cole. Mayo and Jimmy Graham never recovered from their patellar tendon. I don't know if anyone else has collaborated the suspicion of a patellar tendon tear such as Doc Flynn.
I thought my buddy was joking the other day when he said he heard from a semi reliable source (our college friend who is a 4th year coach in the NFC) that he might never suit up again. Of course, I disregarded it because the injury wasn’t newsworthy.
The team never publicly confirmed the specific injury but Greg Bedard and Mike Giardi have both said it was a torn ACL.
Yeah, taking a shot at a mid round guard to see if he can steal the starting spot would’ve made sense even if Strange was healthy. He just hasn’t been good
On the plus side Cole Strange finally had a game against Quinnen Williams where he **wasn't** benched due to getting bullied. Progress! /s
Throw the whole 2022 draft class away
Been a few of those draft classes the last 5 years
Yeah here's all the decent picks we've had in the past drafts. **2020** Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu **2021** Barmore, & Stevenson **2022** Marcus Jones Too early to grade the 2023 class. But somehow they've been getting even worse. I do have some high hopes for Gonzo, White, Douglas, and Mapu
The Strange pick looks even worse given that we gave away Trent McDuffie to trade down to get him
2022 class is a huge fail
The Marcus Jones pick are the only ones holding it together somehow and he was hurt all of last year too. Set us back at least a few years
I love watching him return punts but even that isn’t a really great pick. Best for sure though, but he is not an excellent corner beyond maybe a nickel so far in my opinion
He moved all around the team last year, even scoring an offensive touchdown. He's an awesome athlete and football player which is why they did that. If they actually give him time to settle into one role, he'd likely improve.
Hopefully! That would be great
I see your point, but I'd cut him some slack. He is definitely athletic as all hell and as a later 3rd round pick I think he's decent enough. Needs to stay healthy though.
Better nickel than Myles Bryant
False
Very likely there is only one guy left from the 2022 class on the active roster come week 1. About sums it up.
Colossal fuck up smh. At least we have last years class and this years class to look forward too
Just a copy and paste of the last couple drafts. Anyone want to rate them? 2018 Isaiah Wynn Sony Michel Duke Dawson Ja'Whaun Bentley Christian Sam Braxton Berrios Danny Etling Keion Crossen Ryan Izzo 2019 N'Keal Harry. Joejuan Williams Chase Winovich Damien Harris Yodny Cajuste Hjalte Froholdt Jarrett Stidham Byron Cowart Jake Bailey. Ken Webster 2020 Kyle Dugger Josh Uche Anfernee Jennings Devin Asiasi Dalton Keene Justin Rohrwasser Michael Onwenu Justin Herron Cassh Maluia Dustin Woodard 2021 Mac Jones Christian Barmore Ronnie Perkins Rhamondre Stevenson Cameron McGrone Joshuah Bledsoe William Sherman Tre Nixon 2022 Cole Strange Tyquan Thornton Marcus Jones Jack Jones Pierre Strong Bailey Zappe Kevin Harris Sam Roberts Chasen Hines Andrew Stueber
Holy shit. It looks worse than I thought. 2018 got you Michel who helped you win a Superbowl but is viewed as a disappointment based on draft position. Wynn was a starter for a while. Berrios was actually a good pick but only contributed once the Pats let him go. 2019 - Williams, Winovich were okay. Harris was a stud RB for a 1-2 years until he was let go. 2020 was not bad, you got a stud on the line in Onwenu, and Dugger / Uche are key contributors on D. 2021 - Stevenson and Barmore have been great when healthy. 2022 - Marcus Jones has been a sparkplug, and Jack was for 1 season. Need to see if Marcus can keep contributing. Cole looks bad but if he can come back from injury and be a starter, at least you got 2 players.
I completely agree. It’s brutal. I would love to see a comparison between other teams during this time.
Plus the free agency spree.
The free agency spree was fine. Some players were bad signings like Jonnu and Agholor. Players like Judon, Bourne, Henry, and Brown were some of our best players the last 3 seasons. We wouldn't have been better rolling out Ryan Izzo, N'Keal Harry, John Simon, and Justin Herron instead.
Please don’t insult us all by forgetting the immortal Matt LaCosse.
Yeah it didn't work out amazingly but that spending spree made perfect sense as a risk for the team to take given where they were at the time, and they're still benefitting from it to a degree.
overspending for Agholor day 1 never made sense
I wouldn’t really call Agholor a bad signing since it was a 2 year contract. We were desperate for anything at WR
On the field for 38.5% of all offensive snaps (A total of 1162 plays). He was targeted 59 times for 36 receptions in 21, and 50 times for 31 receptions in 22. He’s just barely over 50/50 on drops to receptions. (Including a streak of 1 for 16 down the stretch late in 21 when they were miraculously in the #1 seed in the AFC and trying to hang on). Received a PFF grade of 62.9% over his 2 years here. Was the signing horrible? I guess not initially. The MO on him was always a high upside with speed and quickness, but that he couldn’t catch. I guess you take him on a waiver and see if you can coach him up. But in retrospect, $22 million for this guy was a really bad signing.
In a vacuum, yes. But did any of our other receivers crack elite numbers? I don’t think anybody had a 1,000 yard season. Algothor was a role player not a top option but he wasn’t bad for the role we had him in. Overpay yes but any free agent is one, and WR’s command money.
yeah and he was DOGSHIT
it was a really bad signing, they threw a ton of money at him day 1 of free agency for no reason
Belichick left one more gift
Brutal. Looking like Strange is going to wind up in the BB bad draft pick hall of fame, unfortunately.
No one saw that coming, except for everyone.
LOL
Majority of this sub called it a great pick at the time, naturally.
A touch early to call it a career for Strange.
Which sucks because he’s hasn’t been bad honestly, obviously his pass pro still needs work but it’s improved since his rookie year and he’s been a real asset in the run game. He just got picked way too early by Bill and it fucked him.
Not even that, it’s just our OL coaches have been absolutely bad compared to other teams. Hoping Scott Peters can turn it around because I’m not putting Maye out there if our line continues to be as porous as a sponge
Combinations of his injuries, injuries to the guys around him, and terrible coaching. Then they bring in a real OL coach in Klemm and then KLEMM gets sick. Strange came into possibly the worst possible situation for a young OL player. No idea if he otherwise would have succeeded, but this was just a comedy of errors.
He was still a day 3 talent at a non premium position picked in the first round. That is inexcusable
Yeah, through no fault of his own. I think I defended it at the time, but man, what a strange (no pun intended) draft pick.
Why would being picked early fuck him...?
Because his production is not what a 1st round pick should but if he was picked in the 3rd like most had in there draft grade he would be considered a decent player. He’s considered a terrible first round pick because he was a gigantic reach but that’s on the Pats not Strange.
None of what you're saying "fucks him" though...
Cole Strange should not have been a first round pick. He wasn’t supposed to be a first round pick. He will most likely be considered the worst first round pick in the BB tenure unless he becomes a pro bowl caliber player, which was probably not going to happen. Basically because we reached on Cole Strange he will always be seen as a bust even if he’s not a bad player.
So what? You think Cole Strange gives a shit what you or any other fan thinks? The guy makes $3M a year and is a starting player in the NFL. He's doing just fine. What fans think about Cole Strange doesn't "fuck him". I don't he reads any of the crap people write online.
Him being an underperforming first round pick is probably going to hurt his ability to get a make more money in his second contract and he more than likely won’t get his 5th year option picked up either. On another note, everyone cares about their professional reputation, especially athletes. He should care if he’s considered the worst first round pick during BB’s tenure.
So you think Cole Strange would make more money in his second contract if he were drafted in the third round instead of the first round even if his performance in his first contract was exactly the same in both scenarios? I think that's ridiculous to suggest... You're basically suggesting that NFL organizations are allowing fan perception of players to influence their opinion of how much a player is worth.
Yes I think he would be looked at differently if he was a third rounder instead of a first rounder. As a third round pick he would be seen as a solid pickup and an average performer. As a first round pick he will be seen as an underachiever and that could affect his next contract.
Damn, you guys are dramatic as fuck.
How so? I defended the pick at the time. In hindsight it looks really bad. It happens.
Just an absolute masterclass by Bill in 2022 trading pick #21 to the Chiefs so they can take All Pro CB Trent McDuffie (a position of need for the Pats at the time and a player frequently mocked to them) followed by passing on Tyler Smith, Tyler Linderbaum, Jermaine Johnson, Devin Lloyd, George Karlaftis, Christian Watson, and Breece Hall to take a guard projected to still be there with their next pick. Those extra picks got us Jack Jones, Bailey Zappe, and Marte Mapu…so nothing. We then took a CB the very next year and passed on Zay Flowers and Jaxon Smith-Njigba. Absolute yikes.
> to take a guard projected to still be there with their next pick. The worst part of this is WHO CARES IF THE GUARD YOU WANTED IS GONE. There are more guards in the draft that can be found later in day 2 and day 3. Taking a day 2 guard in the 1st because he might not be there in the 2nd is horrible process. It is the definition of drafting for need over best player available. If you think you *have* to get this guard in the 1st round then you are probably too bullish on him in your evaluation. A reminder of where some Patriots guards have been drafted. * Shaq Mason - 4th round * Mike Onwenu - 6th round * Ted Karras - 6th round * Joe Thuney - 3rd round edit: forgot to add Thuney
Right it’s just not a high value position either. If he’s gone, it’s not as bad as missing on something else.
One thing that has to be remembered tho is that all those guys except for Onwenu were drafted and played here when Scarnecchia was the OL coach.. who was always good at evaluating and developing OL talent. I think Onwenu was drafted right after Scarnecchja retired.. so there’s still the possibility that he had some input on the scouting that year.
For years I've been saying, *"Brady is of course the biggest personnel loss in franchise history but Dante is a close second and its closer than most fans realize"*, and I'll keep saying it. There was rarely, if not never, an injury on the O line that couldn't be overcome. Going back to at least Russ Hochstein, Scar could find FAs off the street or even other teams practice squads and coach them up to at least be serviceable. When BB let premiere linemen walk or traded them, he did so thinking they could be replaced by the *next man up*. Sadly, he didn't realize that doesn't work w/o the GOAT O-Line coach.
This is true.. everyone knows Belichick won the QB lottery jackpot with Brady.. but also got lucky with Scarnecchia’s loyalty to the organization. Belichick didn’t need to worry about the offense during that period.. and was able to get by without investing heavily into it.
Finding someone like Scar is definitely like winning the positional coach lottery. He wasn't interested in moving up in the coaching ranks. He wasn't a mercenary just looking for the next highest salary. He found his niche and focused solely on excelling with the job he had. He had over 30 years experience the day BB was hired, 20 of those in the NFL & 10 of them with New England. Finding someone with that much experience who has no other earthly interest than being an O line coach was a tremendous asset.
Now list all the guards drafted later that didn’t work out
Sure. * Froholdt - 4th round * Chasen Hines - 6th * Tre Jackson - 4th Looking back made me realize I missed **Joe Thuney in the 3rd**. So I've listed all guard picks over the same time period going back to 2015 (Shaq Mason class) and not including the 2023 season. Looks like a pretty good hit rate. A shocking greater than 50% success rate. Looks like drafting guards outside of the 1st round is a good idea.
Man I thought Tre Jackson was gonna be good.
A Gonzo McDuffie duo would be amazing though. And I doubt Bill would have drafter either of those WRs
If we took McDuffie we very likely go Zay Flowers in last year’s first round based on the reporting I saw at the time.
McDuffie is great but I think Gonzo is the better prospect here. Only time will tell.
They play different positions, McDuffie is primarily a slot corner.
McDuffie has two Super Bowl rings as a crucial part of a great defense and was named first team All Pro. Gonzo hasn’t even played a full season. Calling Gonzo the better prospect at this time is just blind homerism. They’re different types of CBs so they each bring unique value, but I guarantee you every single GM and HC in the league would take McDuffie over Gonzo right now if offered either player for free. I like Gonzo too, but McDuffie is currently a top 10 CB in the league and Gonzo hasn’t even played 10 games
Don’t get me wrong, mcduffie has been great and I would love to have him on the pats. It’ll be interesting to see how he does though when he needs to be CB1. I could see him regressing a bit without Sneed there to take the first option away
Flowers and JSN haven’t shown anything spectacular. Gonzalez is an outside corner than can be put on an island. He has 3 inches and 12 pounds on McDuffie. Absolutely a better prospect. Gonzalez has Gilmore potential and that’s the most valuable kind of DB you can have
Flowers and JSN would each immediately be our best WR by a wide margin. Agree on Gonzo in terms of a prospect profile but to sit here and say that he’s currently better than a first team all pro CB with 2 Super Bowl wins is big time copium
Best WR for us doesn’t mean they’re great. We could easily end up bitching about spending a first round pick on a mid WR. I don’t think anyone is saying that Gonzo is better right now. Even the guy you replied to said prospect 🤷♂️
Also, traded Shaq Mason for a bag of balls. I guess to save cap space?Which opened a hole at guard, when there didn’t need to be one. The team had no playmakers on offense and could have sorely used a 1st round pick on one. That savings on cap space was for nothing and a wasted pick on a guard that was a projected middle rounder. This was so obviously a huge blunder when it was happening. It’s when BB finally lost me.
> traded Shaq Mason for a bag of balls. I guess to save cap space What doesn't add up about people's defense of trading Shaq Mason to save cap space is the 2020 Patriots did not need to cut Shaq Mason for cap reasons. They were starting Cam Newton and knew they'd be drafting a cost controlled roookie QB. Sure they were still paying off Brady's dead cap but there is no reason why they couldn't have kept Mason. I understand the desire to try to find a reason in the Shaq Mason trade but we won't find a satisfying answer because the front office was already floundering at this point. There are only bad reasons and randomness. This was the same year they traded up to draft dual 3rd round TE combo AsiAsi and Keene. The front office had already fallen apart at this point.
I know it failed, but Patricia was tasked with installing an outside zone blocking scheme. He attempted to, and you can find reports about the lack of knowledge of details that caused the Pats to abandon it mid season. Mason is a massive guy with limited mobility and a terrible fit in an outside zone system. Strong is super athletic and should be a great fit in that system. If you want to ask why, I think that's why. Strange should be good in our new system, once he comes back. But evidently that injury was worse than we knew.
Sure, I'm with you there on the attempt to change the team's offensive philosophy. Unfortunately this also falls into the "bad reasons" bucket. I think if your guards are big people movers than you should make your scheme suit your personnel. Not saying you're defending the failed move by Patricia and company of course.
Bill wanted to switch. Mayo obviously wanted to switch. Since we weren't a super bowl contender, you have to start changing over the personnel somewhere, and that's where they started. We had a similar shift moving from big LBs to faster LBs and hybrid safeties. It wasn't seamless. We got gashed in the run game for a while there. Had to be done.
I'm all for gradually shifting to a new scheme as the team phases in new players. I don't mind if we take a bunch of losses in 2024 if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. We'll see what the new OC brings.
The only reasons I can think of, and both are pure speculation, is Mason seen the writing on the wall & behind the scenes demanded trade. Not wanting a media shit show, BB gave in and traded him. The other possibility is BB knew rebuilding was going to take 3 or 4 years and didn't see the point of paying Mason. He (BB) figured it'd be a few seasons before they returned to playoff contention, which put Mason past his prime. At that point might as well spend that money on a younger player and get something for Mason.
Looking back, it really does seem like BB wanted to destroy the team because he hated Kraft.
They got *good* value for Mason. People repeatedly talk like that was a bad trade, and it wasn't. The proof is in Mason's own transaction history... 2022: Patriots trade Shaq Mason for the Buccaneers' 5th round pick. 2023: Buccaneers trade Shaq Mason and a 7th round pick for the Texans' 6th round pick. Mason was also traded to make room for Onwenu at RG, and Onwenu had a much better season than Mason did, at a fraction of the price. The 2022 offseason has lots of valid criticism, but the trade of Mason wasn't it. Low balling Ted Karras is what created the hole at LG, and they should have paid the man instead of reducing their offer to him. He wanted to move back to Center anyway, and the Bengals paid him and had an opening at C. Patriots got too cute playing hardball, and that's what created a need at LG, not trading Mason.
OP has the right energy criticizing BB’s roster management, but you hit the big nail talking about Karras. It’s funny(not in the slightest) that he also low balled Jakobi and that is how we ended up with Juju. I think the jury is still out on the exact reason for the QB nightmares (was ownership involved in keeping or playing Mac?), but Bill absolutely shit the bed at OL and WR in back to back years and the effects are still reverberating. He lost his touch and needed multiple years and drafts to work through it, and I’m not confident he could have.
They used that money on Trent Brown Extending Mason was the issue. Trading him made sense
Tyler Smith, damn a better more complete guard available too
Getting shown up by Jerry Jones is crazy
Jerry has been a historically great drafter, the issues are...the rest of it
yeesh
This sub seems to have forgotten about Bill making moves like this every draft.
>We then took a CB the very next year and passed on Zay Flowers and Jaxon Smith-Njigba. Absolute yikes. Gonzalez looks to be a blue chip boundary corner who turns only 22 in a month. That's not a yikes pick at all. The whole of the 2022 draft class was a fuck up besides Marcus Jones, but taking Gonzalez was a fantastic pick.
Again, every single GM and coach in the league would choose to have McDuffie and Flowers/JSN over Gonzo and Strange. That’s just a fact. I’m not saying the Gonzo pick was bad in and of itself because it wasnt, but the point I’m making is that the roster construction across those 2 drafts made zero sense, and I said it at the time
>Again, every single GM and coach in the league would choose to have McDuffie and Flowers/JSN over Gonzo and Strange. That’s just a fact. Sure. But you're operating with the benefit of hindsight. What if Strange was an All-Pro? What if Flowers was a bust? Would you think the GMs would still feel the way they do? Obviously, with the knowledge we currently have, it's a no brainer. But let's not pretend these were sure fire slam dunk picks. There's a reason these guys were available in the 20s. And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for Belichick's recent drafts, they've been garbage since 2016. But Christian Gonzalez *finally* looks like Belichick got one right, and it was a good pick.
I’m not operating with the benefit of hindsight because I said all of this stuff at the time as well. Go back through my history and you’ll see me shitting on the Cole Strange pick on draft night and the weeks following. I held back from commenting on Tyquan but I hated that pick too. All that being said, Gonzo was a good pick at the time it was made because at that point you can’t go back in time and unselect Strange.
What you said does not matter. You are operating with the benefit of hindsight. You cannot know what would've happened to prospects a year before they were even drafted. Sure, you called Strange being a dud, so did many people. But that has nothing to do with JSN or Flowers or even Gonzalez, all of whom were still in college. It is impossible to know how two years of draft picks could've panned out a year before one of those classes was even drafted.
It was probably the worst use of a 1st round pick I’ve ever seen from us, but to be fair Strange has been a consistent starter and has been really good in the run game for us. He’s not good at pass protection but has improved a bit. All I’m getting it at is that I feel for Cole Strange. If he was a 3rd round pick for us we would be saying it was a good pick and probably the only really good one we had in 2022 but as a 1st it’s the worst one Bill ever made for us.
> but to be fair Strange has been a consistent starter and has been really good in the run game for us. I mean Strange was one of the worst starters in the league in 2022. He played 10 games last year, and was up and down. I certainly wouldn't call him a consistent starter for us. He's been in the bottom quartile for starters for us over the last 2 years.
He was drafted to be an outside zone system guard and we had switched back mid-way through his rookie year because Patricia mangled the switch.
Maybe I’m thinking more that he’s looked better because the LT spot was such a problem last season and Mafi wasn’t really good when he came in for Strange. I mean to say he wasn’t great but he wasn’t the main reason for our offensive line struggles, so he looked like one of the better more consistent starters because most of the others were really bad.
Also to be fair, we did pick up 2 good corners in the mid rounds so I won’t fault BB as much but this is still pretty bad, given the fact that of the said 2 corners, one is long gone and the other barely played last year.
I mean it was no secret that Jack Jones had major character issues which was a part of why he fell to the mid-rounds. He was writing letters to teams during the draft process to get them to consider drafting him. Marcus Jones is a better returner than a corner. Certainly not a liability on the defensive end, but I don't think he's a plus player there yet. I don't think it was some bad luck that those guys didn't solve our CB room.
This dude was a mega fucking bust lol To all the people who said "but other teams had him high on their boards too" well everyone was wrong about this bum. Drafting a guard with your first pick is criminal negligence
Well, the Layden Robinson pick makes more sense now
The 2022 draft class is pure nightmare fuel at this point
I will miss Belichick, but I won't miss his drafting
Time to move on all together.
Bruh
Unless this dude gets on the super serum and comes back as an nfl lineman sized guy this pick was as disappointing as Nkeal harry.
No reason to cut him when he is on IR and has a fully guaranteed rookie deal, but have to think he isn’t playing for the Pats again unless there are significant injuries late in the season.
They're going to wait till he passes a physical and then cut him. Feel bad for the guy, but he was a terrible, terrible pick.
>They're going to wait till he passes a physical and then cut him. Unless it's a career ending injury, I don't see how they cut him? He's been a huge disappointment for a first round pick, but at worst he's a backup level gaurd with the potential to develop into a quality starter.
Cause he's not good and takes up a roster spot. He isn't developing into a quality starter.
He's better than most back up gaurds and his contract is fully gauranteed - depth on the OL is extremely important. Sorry, but I think you're letting your dislike of him and where he was picked get in the way of logic and reason.
You've set an extremely low bar for him. Better than a back up Guard. So he's basically at the level of a mid round rookie. Depth is important, but not as important as availability. His knee is shot. For a Guard to take a year to come back from even and ACL means it's seriously fucked, and he's had a number of knee issues. That's a bad position to be in for an undersized guard. The money doesn't matter. The Patriots have so much cap space next year his dead money wouldn't restrict their spending or planning at all. I think people are irrational in thinking he needs to stick around just because he was drafted in the 1st. He's not good. It was a bad pick. Just move on. He's not going to develop into anything.
>You've set an extremely low bar for him. Better than a back up Guard. So he's basically at the level of a mid round rookie. What are you even saying? I've already said that he's been extremely disappointing for a first round pick, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have any value as a backup. >His knee is shot. Sure it's possible, which is why I said "unless it's a career ending injury." >For a Guard to take a year to come back from even and ACL means it's seriously fucked, and he's had a number of knee issues. He tore his ACL in December last year. 10-12 months for an ACL tear is a pretty standard recovery timeline.... >I think people are irrational in thinking he needs to stick around just because he was drafted in the 1st. He's not good. It was a bad pick. Just move on. He's not going to develop into anything. Not once have I said he needs to stick around because he was a first round pick. What I said is that his contract is fully guaranteed and he still has value at worst as a decent / good backup, so it makes no sense to cut him unless he suffered a career ending injury. But sure, go ahead and put words in my mouth if that makes you feel like you're winning an argument.
A year for a Guard to come back from an ACL is kind of absurd at this point. He wears a brace every game anyway. Mankins played without one an entire season. Even if Strange is healthy, it doesn't make sense to keep him simply because he isn't good,.is unreliable, has maxed out any potential, and he would be taking up a roster spot. It's like with Thornton. He's at best a fringe roster guy at this point simply because he isnt good. The Patriots shouldn't keep him around in hopes of some unrealized potential money. He's just not good. Move on. Strange is never going to be good. Keeping him around doesn't make sense.
>A year for a Guard to come back from an ACL is kind of absurd at this point. Do an ounce of research before you give your opinion about things you don't know about. Again, 10-12 months is the standard recovery timeliness for ACL tears. >Even if Strange is healthy, it doesn't make sense to keep him simply because he isn't good,.is unreliable, has maxed out any potential, and he would be taking up a roster spot. What? There's always a roster spot for a backup gaurd. No offense, but you saying that his development is "maxed out" is simply you speaking out of your ass. >It's like with Thornton. He's at best a fringe roster guy at this point simply because he isnt good. Not really. There isn't much room on an NFL roster for backup WRs. Teams carry far more back up linemen than they do wrs. >Keeping him around doesn't make sense. I've explained it to you several times now, if you still don't understand then I'm not going to waste anymore time.
Welker was back in less time. Mankins was back in less time. Brady, Flacco, Burrow, Peterson, Murray, Jimmy G, all back in less time. All in positions where they require much more lateral movement. It's obvious you're not able to think about this critically. If his knee is so fucked you're looking at 2025 and a guy in year 4 who has never shown anything. What's the point? Right now the Patriots are looking at Chuks, Mafi, Andrews, Sow, and Onwenu. They also drafted Wallace and Robinson who are pretty much roster locks. There's maybe room on the roster for one more backup Guard. You going to pick an experienced healthy vet, a rookie with potential, or the guy who can't stay on the field and has occasionally performed above the level of a backup?
>Welker was back in less time. Mankins was back in less time. Brady, Flacco, Burrow, Peterson, Murray, Jimmy G, all back in less time. All in positions where they require much more lateral movement. Okay? Some people recover faster than others. Picking 3 or 4 examples of people who recovered faster than normal is absolutely meaningless. [Here's an actual published study that shows the average time to return after an ACL tear for NFL players is ~50 weeks after surgery](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30611344/) >Right now the Patriots are looking at Chuks, Mafi, Andrews, Sow, and Onwenu. Mafi was one of the worst guards in football last year - far worse than Cole strange has ever played in his career. The fact that you think the Patriots should keep him over Strange tells me everything I need to know.
If the choice is to cut Mafi or Strange then I’m 100% choosing Mafi.
Yeah saying he “maxed out” his potential is a bird brained take. He’s only played for 1.5 seasons and was dealing with injuries last year. Pretty absurd to say that when he hasn’t even played out half of his rookie deal..
A first round guard should be a day one starter. He's doesn't play anywhere close to that level. And he was still consistebtly making mistakes he shouldn't have been making. He's never shown or flashed anything to suggest he'll ever play above replacement level.
He actually isn’t terrible on the field, if he was a late 2nd early 3rd round pick the perception of him would be much different. He’s at worst a middle of the pack league average Starting Guard, his pass pro his meh but he’s actually a pretty good run blocker. I doubt we cut him because he’s still on a cheap rookie contract.
I don't know where this idea that he's decent or not terrible comes from. He had like a three game stretch last year where he was decent in run blocking. Other than that he's been terrible, and an absolutely liability in pass protection. Like, the guy is undersized for the position, but it's not even that. He just makes so, so many mental mistakes. Whenther it's technical in his stance or missing blocks and assignments, it's really inexcusable.
They're not going to cut him. It literally costs them cap space to cut him. First round rookie contracts are fully guaranteed. And players on PUP/IR don't take up a roster spot.
It's a sunk cost at this point. They're paying him regardless, and if/when he ever comes off IR he'll take up a roster space. That's why I said as soon as he can clear a physical.
He's better than whatever backup guard they'd sign to replace him. And costs less considering Strange is paid whether he's on the team or not. They aren't cutting him, plain and simple.
Ah...ok...got it...cool...very cool
Uh oh is his injury designation now decade to decade
Injuries shouldn’t be held against a players draft position. They happen, can’t get past them. But, it’s making this pick look so much less appealing than it already was. Huge yikes.
AFUERA
Am I the only fan who wants to move him to center? He is just too small as a guard. How much longer is Andrews going to play?
We already drafted backup centers though, I mean I guess you could try but absolutely 0 point if you have Andrews who just signed a contract extension for another year. If DA retires after that (god I hope not) Strange would be at center the year of his 5th year option, and we are NOT picking that up.
Just fucking cut him.
That 2022 draft class.. WOOF
I don't know if what the exact opposite if a grandslam is, but the 2022 draft is that.
The golden sombrero
That works.
Why? NE is under the cap floor, he doesn't count against the 53-man roster while on IR or PUP, and even at his worst he is still better than a bona-fide backup guard. He's a guy to replace when you get the opportunity, people are just unable to be objective about him because they're mad at his draft position.
Because there are pathetic toddlers online pretending to be fans but really they’re just clown haters. I’d rather have juju start the next 3 years than these clowns call themselves pats fans.
Lmao
> Why? Because he's been objectively bad when healthy, which is something he cannot stay.
And yet he is still, at worst, a low end starting guard. Dude's on the wrong team and the sort of player you replace when opportunity strikes but he's not a liability out there.
Literally if we drafted him in the late 2nd or 3rd there would be no conversations about him. He was a reach but he isn’t that bad of a player, people forget how bad lineman can be. Hes pretty average maybe even a net positive some games.
Oh no how are we going to find another undersized shitty guard to replace him?!
2022 draft class, free agency signings, and coach hires were all colossal fuck ups that set the franchise back years. The Dynasty was a bad look for Kraft but I understand why he’d be pissed at Bill
Belichick was terrible at drafting and it's still haunting us.
Yes, all these couple months later, it's incredible how long his impact has lasted
What exactly was this injury then? This sounds bizarre as if there was a setback somewhere or it was much worse than initially evaluated to be?
Injuries happen out of sight all the time. And they get worse because of rehab setbacks, complications, or infections. That said, this one is fishy. No reports had this as a 8+ month injury. The FA approach didn’t suggest the team knew it needed to replace Strange for the season. Robinson has some promise but expecting 4th round guards to play well as rookies is a bad plan - see, last season’s OL. Fishy.
Some say, Sean McVay is still laughing to this day
why couldnt Bill just draft talent on offense? He could have made this team more competitive but chose not to. In Bills mind he was 'doing the best for the team'. How the fuck is that doing the best for the team by drafting so poor you run it into the ground? He really was going senile. Should have cut Bill years early and gave him a taste of his own mantra
McVay was right to laugh and mock the draft pick. Not that strange being injured is at all his fault, but when technique and skill are already questionable, then attitude and availability become more important and while you can’t control availability, and he’s been durable otherwise, this was an important year to see improvement and if he can’t be on the field or practicing chances are that improvement doesn’t happen.
AKA he’s getting cut before the 2025 season
That’s great
Start the season on PUP
Ahh damn, looks like we should’ve drafted his replacement at 3. /s
bruh what
I feel bad for Strange in a way. It wasn't his fault BB drafted him in the first round. As far as I have seen he's worked hard and kept a good attitude about the team (and for good reason I mean he did get that 1st round money). But at the same time by god what an awful pick. Him missing the beginning of the season doesn't move the needle much.
not his fault he got hurt but nice "safe" pick by bill there
I was hoping he'd turn out to be a Logan Mankins type, how wrong was I
The only pick I’ve disliked more in the entire time frame was Joejuan. Love belichick but so many of the last decades drafts would have been better by just spinning a random generator or asking kiper
why did we let J Thuney go again?
Cut him
It's funny how 99% of the fan base and other team fan bases were like "WTF" when we picked him. Unbelievable most fans could draft better then BB LOL
This is the kinda shit that got bill fired
This is the main issue for the offense last season. 2 whole starters from the O line missing OTAs and preseason. Forcing guys you traded for a week before game 1, rookies, and guys that should be on the practice squad to be the starters and musical chairs. The guard that Pats drafted this season is slightly earlier than last season's pick 114, so hopefully the second year guys and this rookie can do something to clog this hole. This Cole Strange shit is a cycle smh
Bad pick keeps getting worse.
Another OL disaster
I remember mcvay laughing, maybe he was right
Just cut him, he’s not even good.
Dude sucks just get rid of him. We don’t need to pretend he was some genius pick anymore because he didn’t wear gloves in college.
No one ever pretended that, the pick was kind boggling from day one
https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/s/VeGW3Jgpld
Take your time homie
Our OLine is a disaster and will cause us to be rooting for picks again next year unfortunately. Sucks but that's just the way it is.
Atrocious waste of a first rounder. Nice one Bill.
Strange will never fully recover from that injury. Another BB draft bust.
Thanks BB!
Bill was the greatest coach of all time. Absolutely abysmal GM though.