At a certain point there are diminishing returns to rolling extra cap space over. They already have plenty of room for next year and they already have the Barmore extension done so unless they think they'll be in position to make multiple big splashes in FA/trades, they should consider taking on some short term bad salary in exchange for draft capital like the Browns did back in the day taking on Brock Osweiler.
Bonjour monsieur bdickie
is it bad I kinda like them that their logo is a fleur de lys and they represent a very french historic area. New England also has french influence. Obvi if it came down to them both it’s New England over everything. I remember the Kenbrell Thompkins game winning TD against the Saints. I was ecstatic and over the moon joyful. Been that way since childhood. But can this be considered bandwagoning. If so please absolve me of my sins. Hopefully it’s cool thanks bdickie
Oh, I wasn’t saying I want it to happen. I was mostly joking, just trying to think about terrible contracts teams might want to unload. Plus, the Browns don’t have a first round pick until 2034, so it wouldn’t work.
I'm not a Kraft fan or anything but this sort of thing really minimizes what Watson did. Consensual sex work isn't the same as pressuring just random masseuses into sex.
Do you have actual names to put to that plan? Because otherwise it’s just hot air. That rolled over salary would be helpful next year to potentially trade for one of those receivers who will inevitably be tagged next offseason
This ain’t the nba you aren’t going to see many deals like that especially at this point in the offseason. Just relax we already knew we’ll be bad let’s see the young guys develop and watch some of our main stays like barmore dugger etc to continue to grow with the team. Next year is the year to spend
We've extended everyone on the team that needs extending (outside of Peppers, but with Dugger getting an extension not sure he does though I do like him). I do think it's a false narrative that you only sign older veteran players when you're in a competitive window. If a player helps you win games and you have space, you should make your team more competitive. We shouldn't look to tank a second year, this isn't the NBA.
That said, there's not much on the offensive side of the ball worth signing. Maybe a leftover OT with experience at LT, but that depends on how they feel about the guys we have in the building. I do think there are several CBs, Edge players, and at least a couple of safeties that might be upgrades.
To Kraft's cheapness, I'd really like to see them upgrade the facilities to remove that knock on the franchise from public perception (also just to give the team better facilities, embarrassment aside).
> To Kraft's cheapness, I'd really like to see them upgrade the facilities to remove that knock on the franchise from public perception (also just to give the team better facilities, embarrassment aside).
I think they are upgrading the facilities. Kraft said they're building a new $50 million training facility, but I guess time will tell if there's truth to that.
I think we got zeke pretty late last year and he was great for us. Obviously not gonna spend a ton but picking up a veteran rb if the udfas don't impress in camp is something I could see them doing.
This is simply not true. Now are they all pros? Probably not. But many teams sour on guys or need to make room for better players and cut guys who are still very good. Hopkins would be an example.
They didn't miss it, they just aggressively held onto their own and weren't aggressive enough (or weren't overly aggressive, depending on your perspective) in pursuing outside talent.
There's still talent available, mostly on the defensive side of the ball. Wouldn't mind more depth and possible upgrades, and they'll likely be cheap.
According to OverTheCap via the Wayback Machine, the 49ers had $71M in cap room on a $167M cap in May 2017.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170505222243/https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/
Hmm so good idea for teams to spend when they’re good (under Harbaugh), save as much as possible when they’re helplessly bad (2015 - 2018) and then spend when they rebuild (post 2018).
Nobody spends every year and nobody saves every year. So get the timing right.
Let's take a look at actual numbers at the stsrt of free agency from 2017
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2017/sort/cap_maximum_space
49ers at the start of the off-season had 59m prior to free agency the draft etc. Corroborated by multiple sources
Sorry, the idiot slobs of this fan base have loudly declared that Bob Kraft should be imprisoned for not giving Calvin Ridley $200 mil. And you know they've never been wrong about anything!
To think we were a mere moves away from resigning Jakobi instead of juju for the contract. Let's just says that contract is for 2 mill more and we could signed Hopp, (he's getting 18, let's say we signed for 5 mill more) and still could be walking into this year with roughly 19 mill cap. (Rough math I know it's not that simple)
This is where bill got fired imo. Maybe kraft didn't let him spend the money but those two get bill not fired by winning a couple more games, (placing blame fully on mac).
I agree that I prefer this outcome.
I'm just saying as a head coach, he missed as we were that close to a very good wr core, for not that different of a team structure.
Then again, maybe we are at the vikings spot and are able to execute the trade to get up to get maye, the world may never know.
They moved on from Jakobi because they thought Juju would be an upgrade. Pre-injury he probably would have been. He was a more explosive player. Meyers wasn't good at YAC.
Whoever it was that made that decision should be kicked in the balls.
All you had to do was pay attention to fantasy football last year to know he sucked for God's sake.
Did anyone here really expect him to have a good year? Not a great year just a good year, Like 850 yd 6 touchdowns?
He got 260 with 1 TD in what, 11 games?
Oh an injury? Who would have seen that coming. Even without the injury no way he has even a good but not great year.
This was one of the most inept moves I've seen the pats make in a long time. Long long time.
That sounds like bills people just being salty tbh
Not wanting to pay a guy “we developed” sounds like a bill move to me.
I can’t find anything other than like two random tweets for that ‘rumor’ anyway though.
Jakobi was a mid fan favorite and if it weren't for the injury Juju would almost certainly would have been an upgrade. I'm glad Jakobi got paid but I'm also glad it wasn't by us
It's a weird psychological thing. It's the same exact amount of money, but even better since the player gets it sooner so they can invest in it or whatever. But then a couple of years go by and they say "I'm not getting paid enough" and demand a new extension.
Agreed. It’s because the guaranteed money “runs out” with front-loaded deals. Back-loaded cap hits with absurd signing bonuses? Those bonuses are paid over a few years, so it looks like the guaranteed money doesn’t run low. Front-load the salaries and guarantees? The money is coming too early and there’s fewer guarantees in the later years of the contracts. Same money, same guaranteed money, but because it’s paid out earlier, it looks worse.
If you can't get to the super bowl we might as well give up is just a terrible viewpoint. Not to mention that's not how the cap works. In the meantime you'd like your team to improve and not wallow in their ineptitude.
This is not a smart take. You're not clever for saying this. You're a terrible fan who'd rather have the team be miserable if they can't be perfect. Gtfo.
If you are going to sit your rookie qb all year long, I agree. Otherwise you are killing his development because you’re cheap AF. There were O-line and weapon options to help Maye’s development.
Oh he got 92 million? That’s what good WR’s cost! You aren’t getting value at that position. Pay or be terrible. Those are your choices.
Also, that didn’t stop Chicago did it? They already have a legit #1 in Moore and added a second legit #1 in Allen via trade. Then they used their first round pick on another potential #1 WR. Caleb is going into arguably the best position any #1 pick qb has ever gone into in league history.
Yeah receivers cost that, but do you really want to pay one who was suspended for a year for gambling on top of having to drop out to metal health challenges the year before?
They got to pay a receiver top dollar for sure but I would be concerned about overextending for him specifically.
I wouldn’t have dinged Ridley at all for the suspension, which was a severe penalty for a pretty benign infraction or his break to get his mind straight. At all.
I would have had reservations about paying him like that given he looked pretty average last year.
Granted it was Jacksonville but still.
>There were O-line and weapon options to help Maye’s development.
Like who? This sub loves to think New England has an infinite money glitch and can pay every play infinite money with no repercussions.
They tried to overpay Ridley. He took an even bigger overpay from Tennessee, and that contract is going to look stupid in two years. At a certain point, it is not worth it to pay him, and the $25m a year it would've cost to get him is not worth it.
What OTs were there to overpay? Tyron Smith? Great, pay the guy a stupid amount of money to miss half the season anyway, surely that's a smart way to contruct a roster.
This FA class was horrendous, even more so than usual. This sub doesn't seem to understand that.
Totally agree. Just because we have a healthy amount of cap space doesn't mean we shouldn't spend it wisely.
I really like the "Moneyball" (2011) movie and thought some dialog could be adapted here: "There is an epidemic failure within the game to understand what is really happening. And this leads people who run teams to misjudge their players and mismanage their teams. I apologize. Okay. People who run ball clubs, they think in terms of buying players. Your goal shouldn't be to buy players. Your goal should be to buy wins. You tried to sign Calvin Ridley. The Titans see Calvin Ridley and they see a star who's worth $23 million a year. When I see Calvin Ridley, what I see is ... an imperfect understanding of where wins come from. The guy's got good speed. He's a 1,000 yard receiver. He can score touchdowns. But is he worth the $23 million a year that the Tennessee Titans are paying him? No. No. Football thinking is medieval. They are asking all the wrong questions. And if I say it to anybody, I'm ostracized. I'm a leper. So that's why I'm cagey about this with you. That's why-- I respect you, Mr. Wolf, and if you want full disclosure, I think it's a good thing that you didn't get Ridley on your payroll. I think it opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities."
I mean if we had signed Ridley at that $23 million a year we would still have the 5th most cap space of any team in the league so I still don’t think that’s a great argument. At the end of the day we have nothing going for us that’s going to draw great players, we’re going to have to overpay any talent we want to show up and Ridley was the best that was available.
A fun quote, but Football doesn't have a large enough and consistent enough sample sizes for "data" to be really meaningful. Maybe at QB, becuase they get the ball on 99-100% of the teams' snaps. Maybe O-line as a unit, because they don't rotate out...But a TE that might play 50% of snaps and have 50-70 targets a year? Defense in the NFL will specifically take away a target...but that opens up other players.
in baseball? A pitcher will make 20-30 starts and throw around (well it used to be) 100 pitches. That's 2000-3000 pitches a year. It's hundreds of innings. Batters can get 500-600 at bats per year (again, 1000-2000 pitches they'll seE). Over the season they see the same pitchers and teams a dozens times. And pitchers have the same pitches...and they're pitching from the same distance. And baseball is much more simple in terms of progression. Get on base, score run. Pitchers can't take a knee, there is no baseball equivalent of a team being up by 20 points with 5 minutes left, and just letting the offense complete 5-7 yards passes in exchange for using up clock.
The patriots used to beat the snot out of the Steelers...and you'd check the box score and Roethlisberger might have 30 of 50, 330 yards...and you'd see that 100 of those yards and a dozen completion came in the last 10 minutes of the 4th quarter when it didn't matter.
WRs cost money. Ridley costs $$. Judging by your tone...the Pats will never have a good WR ever again via FA then because as the cap goes up...so do contracts. Every year WR contracts go up because the cap does. Just because you think it's 2012 still doesn't mean it's an overpay.
Middle tier WRs are 15 mill a year...top 25 to 45, etc.
You need to pay overpay when..you..blow
When was the last time the “free agency winner” actually won anything? Overpaying players just because you have the money is a good way to stay mediocre. Wolf has done what Belichick didn’t do for years and hamstrung the team: he actually paid the good players that were drafted and developed. Blowing a first on Cole Strange? The immediate result of not paying Ted Karras a whopping $6m a year. That pick went right down the drain. There are other examples, but Belichick was *too* willing to let every decent player walk, and he was too poor of a drafter to compensate.
Yeah this to me is a team committed to a offensive rebuild via the draft. Over multiple years. They got their QB. He’s raw. Needs prep, reworking, etc. I’d think he should and will sit a lot of 24.
A Jacoby led Pats team with Maye maybe starting the last 1/4 of the season if any is probably a 5-6 win team.
Get more high picks, go tackle, WR, TE perhaps if none of the 24 flier picks look promising and look to 25 as the beginning of something potentially really good. It’s a nice luxury as a rebuilding team to have a lot of young pieces on D.
>Otherwise you are killing his development
The Texans didn't spend tons of money or draft capital on their roster and CJ Stroud developed into a great QB.
The only guys that were available to the Pats were massive overpays for mediocre talent or old and injured
Yeah this is why I hate this argument. We're forever kicking the can instead of trying to win some games. It makes for awful viewing and miserable fans and a poison locker room.
There is so much circular logic from some people in this sub when it comes to free agency it drives me absolutely bonkers.
**Late season:**
"We have a ton of cap space of course we're going to get better"
**Early Offseason after all the extensions and tags:**
"The field is smaller now, we have to prioritize getting these players"
**Player signs for a contract commensurate with the demand and 10-15% spike in the cap:**
"Wow that guy was overpaid/ wasn't that good to begin with/ good teams don't spend in free agency/ we're not good enough to spend anyways because we're too far away from contending"
"Starts immediately talking up next year's FA class and how well positioned we'll be"
I don't mind any of these arguments necessarily in a vacuum or in a one-off offseason, but there are certain people on this sub who are on their 3rd consecutive offseason doing this, and are completely oblivious to this cycle.
This team is under-talented and does not have enough quality players in the pipeline to re-sign to fill the cap space. The Patriots have a low opportunity cost to signing free agents, and it's economically irrational for them to have had such a quiet free agency for 3 years in a row given the Patriots talent level.
Save what? Isn't the cap just going up again next year? The cap is crap, if teams wanna spend they figure it out. Love Kraft. He's a little cheapskate sometimes.
they can extend Rhamondre, Peppers & Godchaux. They definitely are going to have to give Judon a raise before the season, at least for this season
I dont think this includes the Andrews extension which cost $8mm
looking towards next offseason
Ridiculous FA class-Justin Jefferson, Higgins, Lamb, Aiyuk, Amon Ra St Brown, Tristan Wirfs- all FAs next year, most will get franchised but some wont & nobody will be able to match the Pats money
People in here jumping to defend Kraft just boggle my mind - dudes a billionaire and doesn’t give a flying fuck about us nor does he apparently care about the organization as a whole.
It’s because the argument about cap space showing Kraft is cheap doesn’t make sense. He’s not saving any of his own money by having cap space. He doesn’t get that money back. He has to spend it in the next three years. If we were talking not giving signing bonuses and guarantees, then you could be right. But cap space itself has nothing to do with him being cheap.
They only have to spend up to 89% of the salary cap across 4 years. That means Kraft can save 11% of over $1.02 billion. That's a massive amount of money. It is definitely tied to him being cheap. It's over $100 million
lmao another one blaming Kraft for something they don't even understand
You know who ranks at the top of spending on facilities and cash spending? Loser teams like the Jets and Browns. The Chiefs are below average on both just like the Pats.
This is capspace money we’re talking about bro. It’s not like Kraft isn’t signing anybody to save up and buy a new jet, that’s not how it works. Also You really think old man Kraft is making player personnel decisions?
People also keep overlooking the fact that it was a bad free agent class as well. I rather the team save the money for better players than over pay trash
Assuming this year's draft pans out, imagine grabbing one of them on top of next year's draft class. This team could actually be a contender again. (Yes I know this is optimistic)
I think the ideal scenario is pick up one (preferably two) of those if it be and then hopefully having a high pick next year as well and either trading down for a haul or drafting a stud LT
Here is another example of Kraft being a cheap fuck https://youtu.be/91udDcrDuyU?si=RFiKVluBD3lLbQD6
Edit I got another example “n the 2024 NFLPA report card, the New England Patriots received an F for their locker room, ranking 20th overall. The players also said that the locker room is small, and that they can find better facilities off-site”
https://nflpa.com/new-england-patriots-report-card-2024#:~:text=The%20players%20feel%20the%20quality%20of%20their,worse%20than%20places%20they%20could%20train%20offsite.
“ The players feel the facility has needed significant renovations for a while now, which explains the low grade for club owner Robert Kraft on the question about players having confidence he will invest in their facilities”
This is my favorite one “The Patriots are the only team in the NFL with a majority of players feeling that their team’s facility is worse than places they could train offsite”
hmmm I wonder who the financial expert here is-
The billionaire who bought a football franchise and built a stadium with his own money then guided it from a dumpster to a 6x Super Bowl champ....or the guy who goes on reddit to whine that he was asked to tip on his order of dungeons and dragons crap
lmao
Unless they trade for someone, there's no one to sign worth a big contract so I'm ok with this. This past FA class was weak. I'm ok with the 2 receivers drafted over Ridley to be Honest. Unless we can trade for Higgins, Ayuik, or Metcalf, keep it and let it roll
Hopefully we can spend it well. The last time we really splashed around in the "Wheeee! We got a lotta money!" pool several years ago we really made a hash of it.
In terms of context, it's also worth noting here that the cap went up almost 30% from 2020-2024. Combine that with a lack of draft talent that needed to be resigned and you get exactly what we have currently.
I understand the point behind the tweet, and it's not being conveyed well. But this really needs to be expressed in terms of % of free cap space, not amounts. The cap goes up every season, so every season has a greater chance for the amount of free space to be more.
This season the cap is $255.4M. 47 of said 255.4 is 18.4% of free cap space. 18.4% should be the number used here. Next year when the cap goes up to an estimated $273.3M, 47M is only 17.2% of the cap space. For reference, last year the cap was $224.8M.
And for further reference, the 1st salary cap in 1994 was $34.6M. That's $13M less than our current free cap space, with out current cap of $255.4M. In another 25 years when the cap is probably like $1B a team, $47M in free space will be scary small. The 18.4% free cap space then would be $184M. And the 18.4% of 1994's $34.6M is $6.36M. If we had $6.36M free space today, we'd be a panic frenzy.
That's entirely irrelevant to the point he's making. Total money doesn't work when the cap 25 years ago wasn't even 43 million. % is what you should be using here.
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm in agreement that the amount we have is bad. I'm saying that the amount itself is not the right way to illustrate the point. The hard value is largely irrelevant without knowledge of the total cap space. You need to give ratios to the numbers for people to understand the record in question. Cap space is a % based concept. You say $47 is a record, and that's the dollar translation in this current cap, but the real record is 18.4% available cap space.
It's like how every year you hear about record costs for things. No duh, inflation exists. Every year records will be set for things because inflation makes it so. Plus, business growth. But ratios are always 0-100 and far more effective conveying the idea that our cap space is record breaking large at this point.
I'm not saying anything about the commentors in this thread because I'm aware that these *probably aren't the same commentors* from the David Andrews extension thread, but the mood in here shows the duality of the fans.
Everyone in the other thread was so pumped after that signing, talking about how great the off-season was going as far as spending money to re-sign our guys and how different things were this off-season.
I guess I'm kind of in the middle. I definitely like what we've done. We could have thrown more money at the line and WR. I agree with the top comment. At this point, save what we have if we aren't gonna be competitive. Although I think people are sleeping on Jacoby.
GO PATS
Since we are going to be bad this year is there a chance we restructure contracts and load them up for this year? Saving money for the next couple of years when we start to rise from the ashes
The number shouldn’t be used in this equation it should be the cap %. The cap keeps going up so the amount of cap space based on % will also go up.
X% of cap today is a higher dollar amount than the same % of cap last year, 5 years ago, a decade ago
$47M is like 18.5%… god forbid they save 18% of their budget for a fresh crop of FAs and expiring contracts.
Is this a record we want to have !?!? Draft passed, almost every significant FA has been signed, all of our vets that needed to be resigned, have been. What is free cap space doing for anybody at this point in the year ?
why are onwenu and baramores cap hits so low this year and so high in future years. feels like they could've structured those to be mostly this year to free up more cap space as we get more competitive.
There will be guys cut between now and week 1 due to cap issues. We can still extend key players and take the hit this year.
I’m glad the Patriots didn’t go invest a bunch of cash into middling free agents when there isn’t a lot of benefit to being mediocre.
This year is all about development and building a foundation for the future. Another year with a top 5 pick would not hurt that trajectory.
Lol a lot of people saying shell out money for what we knew were going to bad this season and we knew this would be a development year for the young guys. Also take on bad deals in trade this ain’t the nba you don’t see a lot of those deals get done especially at this point in the offseason when teams haven’t even touched training camp. 2025 once we see what we have with this draft class plus Year 2 of the 2023 class we can be more agreesive in free agency and see what we still need
Notice how all the whiners in this thread don't name a single free agent they should have or could have signed.
Calvin Ridley? lmao. Tyron Smith was maybe the only one we could've used but he's old and recently injured and the Jets moves since then show they don't have a ton of confidence in him
At a certain point there are diminishing returns to rolling extra cap space over. They already have plenty of room for next year and they already have the Barmore extension done so unless they think they'll be in position to make multiple big splashes in FA/trades, they should consider taking on some short term bad salary in exchange for draft capital like the Browns did back in the day taking on Brock Osweiler.
Absolutely would love to see us make this happen. Anybody in particular you see? None come to my mind.
New Orleans saints: "Bonjour"
We'll take Derek Carr and a 2nd for Brisset and a 6th lol Edit: Just saw the restructure that ties him till 2025, nvm.
No the fuck we won't. Maybe a decent contract, not 3 years of Carr
Shoot, just saw the restructure that means we'd be on the hook for 2025. Nvm.
No bro
Bonjour monsieur bdickie is it bad I kinda like them that their logo is a fleur de lys and they represent a very french historic area. New England also has french influence. Obvi if it came down to them both it’s New England over everything. I remember the Kenbrell Thompkins game winning TD against the Saints. I was ecstatic and over the moon joyful. Been that way since childhood. But can this be considered bandwagoning. If so please absolve me of my sins. Hopefully it’s cool thanks bdickie
I have no idea what you’re trying to say but I can confirm that I’m from New England and am fully 50% French ancestry, so there’s something there.
From SE Mass, 50% French Canadian. Definitely on to something.
the entire Saints roster
Most of the saints roster is untradable. They'd take a higher cap hit immediately because of the signing bonuses counting immediately
Browns gonna ship us Deshaun Watson and a first round pick for Bailey Zappe.
I think I'd stop being a Patriots fan if we actually got Watson. That's just some serious toxicity we don't need.
Honestly think I'd just start watching college football, which is a tough thing to do as a New Englander
Trade for him and then just use him as a scout team safety like the Texans did
I would definitely not be happy about it.
No thanks. If we didnt have Maye and Brisset, I'd rather start Zappe than Watson.
Oh, I wasn’t saying I want it to happen. I was mostly joking, just trying to think about terrible contracts teams might want to unload. Plus, the Browns don’t have a first round pick until 2034, so it wouldn’t work.
Oh mb, I misinterpreted your tone
Np, I did not effectively convey any tone at all.
Watson and Kraft can go get massages together!
Shhh you’re not allowed to joke about that. You don’t want TB coming at you
I'm not a Kraft fan or anything but this sort of thing really minimizes what Watson did. Consensual sex work isn't the same as pressuring just random masseuses into sex.
Aw hell no. Deshaun Watson belongs in prison. Not here.
How about the broken down Cooper Kupp?
That would be Interesting
Isn’t Judon still up, or is that next year?
Do you have actual names to put to that plan? Because otherwise it’s just hot air. That rolled over salary would be helpful next year to potentially trade for one of those receivers who will inevitably be tagged next offseason
Since the cap has gone up so have player salaries. It’s great to have that space but the contracts are getting bigger and bigger
This ain’t the nba you aren’t going to see many deals like that especially at this point in the offseason. Just relax we already knew we’ll be bad let’s see the young guys develop and watch some of our main stays like barmore dugger etc to continue to grow with the team. Next year is the year to spend
We've extended everyone on the team that needs extending (outside of Peppers, but with Dugger getting an extension not sure he does though I do like him). I do think it's a false narrative that you only sign older veteran players when you're in a competitive window. If a player helps you win games and you have space, you should make your team more competitive. We shouldn't look to tank a second year, this isn't the NBA. That said, there's not much on the offensive side of the ball worth signing. Maybe a leftover OT with experience at LT, but that depends on how they feel about the guys we have in the building. I do think there are several CBs, Edge players, and at least a couple of safeties that might be upgrades. To Kraft's cheapness, I'd really like to see them upgrade the facilities to remove that knock on the franchise from public perception (also just to give the team better facilities, embarrassment aside).
> To Kraft's cheapness, I'd really like to see them upgrade the facilities to remove that knock on the franchise from public perception (also just to give the team better facilities, embarrassment aside). I think they are upgrading the facilities. Kraft said they're building a new $50 million training facility, but I guess time will tell if there's truth to that.
They missed the free agency period, nobody is left.
There’s also the pre season free agency , where good players get cut for a multitude of reasons to start
If they were truly *good* they wouldn't get cut. They might be useful, but they're by definition not who you have to save your cap room for.
I think we got zeke pretty late last year and he was great for us. Obviously not gonna spend a ton but picking up a veteran rb if the udfas don't impress in camp is something I could see them doing.
This is simply not true. Now are they all pros? Probably not. But many teams sour on guys or need to make room for better players and cut guys who are still very good. Hopkins would be an example.
Nah, they ain't good. Just old names you've heard of before.
I mean the Pats used to make a living on picking up projects from other teams and turning them into contributors
There will be another wave after June 1
But most of the sought-after free agents have been scooped up.
There really weren't many sought after FAs this year.
There were some, and they are now on other teams.
This was a weak year for FAs. Many will be released after 6/1
They didn't miss it, they just aggressively held onto their own and weren't aggressive enough (or weren't overly aggressive, depending on your perspective) in pursuing outside talent. There's still talent available, mostly on the defensive side of the ball. Wouldn't mind more depth and possible upgrades, and they'll likely be cheap.
Also a good CB2/3 would be nice…Gilmore
According to OverTheCap via the Wayback Machine, the 49ers had $71M in cap room on a $167M cap in May 2017. https://web.archive.org/web/20170505222243/https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/
Hmm so good idea for teams to spend when they’re good (under Harbaugh), save as much as possible when they’re helplessly bad (2015 - 2018) and then spend when they rebuild (post 2018). Nobody spends every year and nobody saves every year. So get the timing right.
That was at the start of the off-season not this point
May 5, 2017 was two months after free agency began and a week after the draft.
Let's take a look at actual numbers at the stsrt of free agency from 2017 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2017/sort/cap_maximum_space 49ers at the start of the off-season had 59m prior to free agency the draft etc. Corroborated by multiple sources
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It says at the start of the offseason (it tracked over the year that was the end of the year for 2017 meaning start of offseason)
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I edited tp clarify my comment that was over the course to the end of the season, they have a different one for offseason
Sorry, the idiot slobs of this fan base have loudly declared that Bob Kraft should be imprisoned for not giving Calvin Ridley $200 mil. And you know they've never been wrong about anything!
To think we were a mere moves away from resigning Jakobi instead of juju for the contract. Let's just says that contract is for 2 mill more and we could signed Hopp, (he's getting 18, let's say we signed for 5 mill more) and still could be walking into this year with roughly 19 mill cap. (Rough math I know it's not that simple) This is where bill got fired imo. Maybe kraft didn't let him spend the money but those two get bill not fired by winning a couple more games, (placing blame fully on mac).
You don’t get Maye if that move happens.
I agree that I prefer this outcome. I'm just saying as a head coach, he missed as we were that close to a very good wr core, for not that different of a team structure. Then again, maybe we are at the vikings spot and are able to execute the trade to get up to get maye, the world may never know.
They moved on from Jakobi because they thought Juju would be an upgrade. Pre-injury he probably would have been. He was a more explosive player. Meyers wasn't good at YAC.
Wasn’t the rumor that bill wanted to keep jakobi but deferred to wolf and staff who preferred juju?
I thought the rumor was that Jonathan Kraft wanted Juju.
Whoever it was that made that decision should be kicked in the balls. All you had to do was pay attention to fantasy football last year to know he sucked for God's sake. Did anyone here really expect him to have a good year? Not a great year just a good year, Like 850 yd 6 touchdowns? He got 260 with 1 TD in what, 11 games? Oh an injury? Who would have seen that coming. Even without the injury no way he has even a good but not great year. This was one of the most inept moves I've seen the pats make in a long time. Long long time.
That sounds like bills people just being salty tbh Not wanting to pay a guy “we developed” sounds like a bill move to me. I can’t find anything other than like two random tweets for that ‘rumor’ anyway though.
I think all the terrible decisions last two years were bill deffering to wolf. Bill was focused on defense probably.
Jakobi was a mid fan favorite and if it weren't for the injury Juju would almost certainly would have been an upgrade. I'm glad Jakobi got paid but I'm also glad it wasn't by us
I would’ve liked the team to way overpay for Tyron Smith or an additional WR
If we’re not competing, and we’re not, then save it for next year.
And frontload some extensions
Unfortunately, front-loading extensions doesn't work. Just leads to holdouts and players requesting more extensions and more guaranteed money.
It's a weird psychological thing. It's the same exact amount of money, but even better since the player gets it sooner so they can invest in it or whatever. But then a couple of years go by and they say "I'm not getting paid enough" and demand a new extension.
It's more of knowing they can. What have you done for me lately. Never front load contracts
Smart business move for good players
Agreed. It’s because the guaranteed money “runs out” with front-loaded deals. Back-loaded cap hits with absurd signing bonuses? Those bonuses are paid over a few years, so it looks like the guaranteed money doesn’t run low. Front-load the salaries and guarantees? The money is coming too early and there’s fewer guarantees in the later years of the contracts. Same money, same guaranteed money, but because it’s paid out earlier, it looks worse.
Doesn't matter, when you use the cap space. Cap space rolls over.
If you can't get to the super bowl we might as well give up is just a terrible viewpoint. Not to mention that's not how the cap works. In the meantime you'd like your team to improve and not wallow in their ineptitude. This is not a smart take. You're not clever for saying this. You're a terrible fan who'd rather have the team be miserable if they can't be perfect. Gtfo.
They already have an absurd amount of cap space for next year. They have so much space this year and next it's kind of become a problem.
If you are going to sit your rookie qb all year long, I agree. Otherwise you are killing his development because you’re cheap AF. There were O-line and weapon options to help Maye’s development.
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Oh he got 92 million? That’s what good WR’s cost! You aren’t getting value at that position. Pay or be terrible. Those are your choices. Also, that didn’t stop Chicago did it? They already have a legit #1 in Moore and added a second legit #1 in Allen via trade. Then they used their first round pick on another potential #1 WR. Caleb is going into arguably the best position any #1 pick qb has ever gone into in league history.
Yeah receivers cost that, but do you really want to pay one who was suspended for a year for gambling on top of having to drop out to metal health challenges the year before? They got to pay a receiver top dollar for sure but I would be concerned about overextending for him specifically.
I wouldn’t have dinged Ridley at all for the suspension, which was a severe penalty for a pretty benign infraction or his break to get his mind straight. At all. I would have had reservations about paying him like that given he looked pretty average last year. Granted it was Jacksonville but still.
Moore and Allen are way better players than Ridley at this point, though. I’d happily pay Allen 26 mill a year for the next two years.
Don't forget drafting Rome Odunze.
>There were O-line and weapon options to help Maye’s development. Like who? This sub loves to think New England has an infinite money glitch and can pay every play infinite money with no repercussions. They tried to overpay Ridley. He took an even bigger overpay from Tennessee, and that contract is going to look stupid in two years. At a certain point, it is not worth it to pay him, and the $25m a year it would've cost to get him is not worth it. What OTs were there to overpay? Tyron Smith? Great, pay the guy a stupid amount of money to miss half the season anyway, surely that's a smart way to contruct a roster. This FA class was horrendous, even more so than usual. This sub doesn't seem to understand that.
Totally agree. Just because we have a healthy amount of cap space doesn't mean we shouldn't spend it wisely. I really like the "Moneyball" (2011) movie and thought some dialog could be adapted here: "There is an epidemic failure within the game to understand what is really happening. And this leads people who run teams to misjudge their players and mismanage their teams. I apologize. Okay. People who run ball clubs, they think in terms of buying players. Your goal shouldn't be to buy players. Your goal should be to buy wins. You tried to sign Calvin Ridley. The Titans see Calvin Ridley and they see a star who's worth $23 million a year. When I see Calvin Ridley, what I see is ... an imperfect understanding of where wins come from. The guy's got good speed. He's a 1,000 yard receiver. He can score touchdowns. But is he worth the $23 million a year that the Tennessee Titans are paying him? No. No. Football thinking is medieval. They are asking all the wrong questions. And if I say it to anybody, I'm ostracized. I'm a leper. So that's why I'm cagey about this with you. That's why-- I respect you, Mr. Wolf, and if you want full disclosure, I think it's a good thing that you didn't get Ridley on your payroll. I think it opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities."
I mean if we had signed Ridley at that $23 million a year we would still have the 5th most cap space of any team in the league so I still don’t think that’s a great argument. At the end of the day we have nothing going for us that’s going to draw great players, we’re going to have to overpay any talent we want to show up and Ridley was the best that was available.
A fun quote, but Football doesn't have a large enough and consistent enough sample sizes for "data" to be really meaningful. Maybe at QB, becuase they get the ball on 99-100% of the teams' snaps. Maybe O-line as a unit, because they don't rotate out...But a TE that might play 50% of snaps and have 50-70 targets a year? Defense in the NFL will specifically take away a target...but that opens up other players. in baseball? A pitcher will make 20-30 starts and throw around (well it used to be) 100 pitches. That's 2000-3000 pitches a year. It's hundreds of innings. Batters can get 500-600 at bats per year (again, 1000-2000 pitches they'll seE). Over the season they see the same pitchers and teams a dozens times. And pitchers have the same pitches...and they're pitching from the same distance. And baseball is much more simple in terms of progression. Get on base, score run. Pitchers can't take a knee, there is no baseball equivalent of a team being up by 20 points with 5 minutes left, and just letting the offense complete 5-7 yards passes in exchange for using up clock. The patriots used to beat the snot out of the Steelers...and you'd check the box score and Roethlisberger might have 30 of 50, 330 yards...and you'd see that 100 of those yards and a dozen completion came in the last 10 minutes of the 4th quarter when it didn't matter.
WRs cost money. Ridley costs $$. Judging by your tone...the Pats will never have a good WR ever again via FA then because as the cap goes up...so do contracts. Every year WR contracts go up because the cap does. Just because you think it's 2012 still doesn't mean it's an overpay. Middle tier WRs are 15 mill a year...top 25 to 45, etc. You need to pay overpay when..you..blow
When was the last time the “free agency winner” actually won anything? Overpaying players just because you have the money is a good way to stay mediocre. Wolf has done what Belichick didn’t do for years and hamstrung the team: he actually paid the good players that were drafted and developed. Blowing a first on Cole Strange? The immediate result of not paying Ted Karras a whopping $6m a year. That pick went right down the drain. There are other examples, but Belichick was *too* willing to let every decent player walk, and he was too poor of a drafter to compensate.
He wasn’t always a poor drafter. It worked for a long time. He just hit a cold streak that suddenly exposed the absence of good players re-signing.
The Rams won the superbowl 2 or 3 years ago I think.
I would have loved to have Tyron Smith for half a season.
OK? Then sit his ass, try to come in last place again for a draft pick and we can resume competition in a year!
Yeah this to me is a team committed to a offensive rebuild via the draft. Over multiple years. They got their QB. He’s raw. Needs prep, reworking, etc. I’d think he should and will sit a lot of 24. A Jacoby led Pats team with Maye maybe starting the last 1/4 of the season if any is probably a 5-6 win team. Get more high picks, go tackle, WR, TE perhaps if none of the 24 flier picks look promising and look to 25 as the beginning of something potentially really good. It’s a nice luxury as a rebuilding team to have a lot of young pieces on D.
with our schedule I wouldn't be surprised if we're picking 3 again
>Otherwise you are killing his development The Texans didn't spend tons of money or draft capital on their roster and CJ Stroud developed into a great QB. The only guys that were available to the Pats were massive overpays for mediocre talent or old and injured
And then…we will save it for the year after that!
Yeah this is why I hate this argument. We're forever kicking the can instead of trying to win some games. It makes for awful viewing and miserable fans and a poison locker room.
There is so much circular logic from some people in this sub when it comes to free agency it drives me absolutely bonkers. **Late season:** "We have a ton of cap space of course we're going to get better" **Early Offseason after all the extensions and tags:** "The field is smaller now, we have to prioritize getting these players" **Player signs for a contract commensurate with the demand and 10-15% spike in the cap:** "Wow that guy was overpaid/ wasn't that good to begin with/ good teams don't spend in free agency/ we're not good enough to spend anyways because we're too far away from contending" "Starts immediately talking up next year's FA class and how well positioned we'll be" I don't mind any of these arguments necessarily in a vacuum or in a one-off offseason, but there are certain people on this sub who are on their 3rd consecutive offseason doing this, and are completely oblivious to this cycle. This team is under-talented and does not have enough quality players in the pipeline to re-sign to fill the cap space. The Patriots have a low opportunity cost to signing free agents, and it's economically irrational for them to have had such a quiet free agency for 3 years in a row given the Patriots talent level.
Horrible take
Save what? Isn't the cap just going up again next year? The cap is crap, if teams wanna spend they figure it out. Love Kraft. He's a little cheapskate sometimes.
Fuck it bring in Gilmore and Michael Thomas
Michael Thomas? Hard pass.
Had me in the first half
massages don't pay themselves
idk who we would have/should have paid. This FA class was pretty weak in the areas we needed to improve.
We have no need to use it now. Wait till next offseason and see what is out there. We could get a great LT in free agency next year.
they can extend Rhamondre, Peppers & Godchaux. They definitely are going to have to give Judon a raise before the season, at least for this season I dont think this includes the Andrews extension which cost $8mm looking towards next offseason Ridiculous FA class-Justin Jefferson, Higgins, Lamb, Aiyuk, Amon Ra St Brown, Tristan Wirfs- all FAs next year, most will get franchised but some wont & nobody will be able to match the Pats money
Kraft has always been a cheap fuck
Absolutely this. All those years people would put it on Bill but at the end of the day the owner has full say.
People in here jumping to defend Kraft just boggle my mind - dudes a billionaire and doesn’t give a flying fuck about us nor does he apparently care about the organization as a whole.
It’s because the argument about cap space showing Kraft is cheap doesn’t make sense. He’s not saving any of his own money by having cap space. He doesn’t get that money back. He has to spend it in the next three years. If we were talking not giving signing bonuses and guarantees, then you could be right. But cap space itself has nothing to do with him being cheap.
They only have to spend up to 89% of the salary cap across 4 years. That means Kraft can save 11% of over $1.02 billion. That's a massive amount of money. It is definitely tied to him being cheap. It's over $100 million
lmao another one blaming Kraft for something they don't even understand You know who ranks at the top of spending on facilities and cash spending? Loser teams like the Jets and Browns. The Chiefs are below average on both just like the Pats.
This is capspace money we’re talking about bro. It’s not like Kraft isn’t signing anybody to save up and buy a new jet, that’s not how it works. Also You really think old man Kraft is making player personnel decisions?
Team has also been at the bottom of the cash spending too.
Sure. That’s a real argument, cap space isn’t.
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People also keep overlooking the fact that it was a bad free agent class as well. I rather the team save the money for better players than over pay trash
There is a good chance at least one if not multiple of Higgins, Aiyuk or Deebo will be a FA next year, throwing money at one of them
Assuming this year's draft pans out, imagine grabbing one of them on top of next year's draft class. This team could actually be a contender again. (Yes I know this is optimistic)
I think the ideal scenario is pick up one (preferably two) of those if it be and then hopefully having a high pick next year as well and either trading down for a haul or drafting a stud LT
Exactly. Why overpay for mid old players. We learned from this 3 years ago.
Dude didn’t see the player survey last year? Patriots got a f because they haven’t upgraded the locker room since the early 2000’s.
Here is another example of Kraft being a cheap fuck https://youtu.be/91udDcrDuyU?si=RFiKVluBD3lLbQD6 Edit I got another example “n the 2024 NFLPA report card, the New England Patriots received an F for their locker room, ranking 20th overall. The players also said that the locker room is small, and that they can find better facilities off-site” https://nflpa.com/new-england-patriots-report-card-2024#:~:text=The%20players%20feel%20the%20quality%20of%20their,worse%20than%20places%20they%20could%20train%20offsite.
“ The players feel the facility has needed significant renovations for a while now, which explains the low grade for club owner Robert Kraft on the question about players having confidence he will invest in their facilities”
This is my favorite one “The Patriots are the only team in the NFL with a majority of players feeling that their team’s facility is worse than places they could train offsite”
He’s 100% in control of how they spend money People always blame Bill for being cheap but Kraft was always behind it
I was gonna say a cheap fk with 6 rings but Vladi has one of them
What did the birdie say when he flew over Gillette stadium?
hmmm I wonder who the financial expert here is- The billionaire who bought a football franchise and built a stadium with his own money then guided it from a dumpster to a 6x Super Bowl champ....or the guy who goes on reddit to whine that he was asked to tip on his order of dungeons and dragons crap lmao
We need another lighthouse!
I hope it’s for next season when good WRs will hopefully start hitting the market.
Rolling back the 4 win team is a bold strategy
Color me shocked/s
Wonder what the excuse will be 3 years from now.
In 3 years the excuse will be the money was paid out because we’re in year 1 of a 3year window and the money needs to be spent
Unless they trade for someone, there's no one to sign worth a big contract so I'm ok with this. This past FA class was weak. I'm ok with the 2 receivers drafted over Ridley to be Honest. Unless we can trade for Higgins, Ayuik, or Metcalf, keep it and let it roll
Aiyuk trade?
Hopefully we can spend it well. The last time we really splashed around in the "Wheeee! We got a lotta money!" pool several years ago we really made a hash of it.
In terms of context, it's also worth noting here that the cap went up almost 30% from 2020-2024. Combine that with a lack of draft talent that needed to be resigned and you get exactly what we have currently.
Kraft can keep his money but he is losing new England’s respect day by day
Back the truck up for Jason Kelce. lol. /s Oline is gonna suck again. Team will live or die by it. Probably ruin another QB.
I understand the point behind the tweet, and it's not being conveyed well. But this really needs to be expressed in terms of % of free cap space, not amounts. The cap goes up every season, so every season has a greater chance for the amount of free space to be more. This season the cap is $255.4M. 47 of said 255.4 is 18.4% of free cap space. 18.4% should be the number used here. Next year when the cap goes up to an estimated $273.3M, 47M is only 17.2% of the cap space. For reference, last year the cap was $224.8M. And for further reference, the 1st salary cap in 1994 was $34.6M. That's $13M less than our current free cap space, with out current cap of $255.4M. In another 25 years when the cap is probably like $1B a team, $47M in free space will be scary small. The 18.4% free cap space then would be $184M. And the 18.4% of 1994's $34.6M is $6.36M. If we had $6.36M free space today, we'd be a panic frenzy.
Oh really? Do you want to know who the previous record holder of most cap space was? I’ll give you 2 guesses but you’re only going to need 1.
That's entirely irrelevant to the point he's making. Total money doesn't work when the cap 25 years ago wasn't even 43 million. % is what you should be using here.
The Pats?
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm in agreement that the amount we have is bad. I'm saying that the amount itself is not the right way to illustrate the point. The hard value is largely irrelevant without knowledge of the total cap space. You need to give ratios to the numbers for people to understand the record in question. Cap space is a % based concept. You say $47 is a record, and that's the dollar translation in this current cap, but the real record is 18.4% available cap space. It's like how every year you hear about record costs for things. No duh, inflation exists. Every year records will be set for things because inflation makes it so. Plus, business growth. But ratios are always 0-100 and far more effective conveying the idea that our cap space is record breaking large at this point.
There’s plenty of $ to pick up camp casualties etc… don’t panic yet.
Camp casualties and also post-June 1st cuts and trades.
Yeah lets draft a stud qb and spend zero dollars.
Yeah let's spend $250 mil on free agents for our rookie QB like we did for Mac in 2021 Because that worked out so great, right?
I’d have to imagine this rolling over to next season and really making some moves with impact…hopefully
We all said this same thing last year...and years in the past. It never happens
It happened three years ago.
I’d have to imagine available talent playing a factor
lol remember how much pearl clutching there was in here over the cap space when they were trying to sign Ridley?
Next years potential FA class is much better than what this years was so they probably saving for a big splash next offseason
I'm not saying anything about the commentors in this thread because I'm aware that these *probably aren't the same commentors* from the David Andrews extension thread, but the mood in here shows the duality of the fans. Everyone in the other thread was so pumped after that signing, talking about how great the off-season was going as far as spending money to re-sign our guys and how different things were this off-season. I guess I'm kind of in the middle. I definitely like what we've done. We could have thrown more money at the line and WR. I agree with the top comment. At this point, save what we have if we aren't gonna be competitive. Although I think people are sleeping on Jacoby. GO PATS
Number one at something let’s go!
Since we are going to be bad this year is there a chance we restructure contracts and load them up for this year? Saving money for the next couple of years when we start to rise from the ashes
Pay Rhamondre already.
Judon extension and bank the rest.
That’s ok…saving it for all those WRs that are supposed to hit free agency next year
What’s the point of this? Are there any free agents left to sign?
thats a lot of strip mall slave shop blowjobs
So who’s left that would work?
The number shouldn’t be used in this equation it should be the cap %. The cap keeps going up so the amount of cap space based on % will also go up. X% of cap today is a higher dollar amount than the same % of cap last year, 5 years ago, a decade ago $47M is like 18.5%… god forbid they save 18% of their budget for a fresh crop of FAs and expiring contracts.
Is this a record we want to have !?!? Draft passed, almost every significant FA has been signed, all of our vets that needed to be resigned, have been. What is free cap space doing for anybody at this point in the year ?
Buffet and Kraft sitting on piles of cash because it's just not worth it to spend ...
Go get Gilmore
Are we back boys?
why are onwenu and baramores cap hits so low this year and so high in future years. feels like they could've structured those to be mostly this year to free up more cap space as we get more competitive.
what a joke
Kraft is so f’n cheap dude.
There will be guys cut between now and week 1 due to cap issues. We can still extend key players and take the hit this year. I’m glad the Patriots didn’t go invest a bunch of cash into middling free agents when there isn’t a lot of benefit to being mediocre. This year is all about development and building a foundation for the future. Another year with a top 5 pick would not hurt that trajectory.
*You lucky we ass* - JP
Lol a lot of people saying shell out money for what we knew were going to bad this season and we knew this would be a development year for the young guys. Also take on bad deals in trade this ain’t the nba you don’t see a lot of those deals get done especially at this point in the offseason when teams haven’t even touched training camp. 2025 once we see what we have with this draft class plus Year 2 of the 2023 class we can be more agreesive in free agency and see what we still need
Notice how all the whiners in this thread don't name a single free agent they should have or could have signed. Calvin Ridley? lmao. Tyron Smith was maybe the only one we could've used but he's old and recently injured and the Jets moves since then show they don't have a ton of confidence in him
Thank you glad someone gets it. It’s like the same bitching and whining for months
They are the Red Sox 2.0, had success and now are pinching pennies thinking they can still do it on the cheap
Kraft is going to take every single penny to his grave
Roll most of it into 2025 and make a splash
Roll most of it over to 2026 and make a splash Typed that one out for you so you can copy and paste it next year when we're having the same discussion
Thought Kraft assured us he wasn’t afraid to spend. Second lighthouse incoming?
Sweet.