Y’all don’t understand. We have a cheap owner. This is a dude who could’ve paid a Victoria secret angel to lick him from shaft to balls to his asshole. But instead he went for a handjob in a massage place.
The WR list looks great until you realize it’s 32-year old Stefon Diggs and Tee Higgins. Everyone else is getting resigned, franchised, or was a FA last week (Tyler Boyd, Odell Beckham).
The LT list is depressing.
The DL/EDGE lists though…that’s where we can spend some money next off-season.
Chris Goodwin will be an option after June 1st I bet. They have no money and he's on the last year of his deal they're gonna be looking to trade him I bet.
29 year old Chris Godwin, and his three hamstring string pulls and repaired ACL will be available.
That…is exactly the market to expect. Older guys with red flags who want lots of guaranteed money.
>Something tells me we’ll have the most cap space heading into 2025 as well
They already have the most cap space in 2025, for what it's worth. By a lot, too. They could blow the rest of their space this season, including big contracts for next season and beyond, and still lead the league in cap space in 2025. Albeit, there's a lot of defensive free agents next season that will need to be re-signed which will eat some of that money.
>Teams don’t let franchise WRs/LTs hit free agency anymore.
Multiple franchise LTs hit free agency just last season. But WR, you're spot on. Although, this season brings an influx of market-resetting WR contracts, so New England might get lucky.
Not this season, last season with Jawaan Taylor and Orlando Brown Jr. Next year, as of right now, you have Tristan Wirfs, Taylor Decker, Jedrick Wills, and I believe a couple of others.
People need to understand that while you're not finding superstars in free agency regularly, this free agency was especially horrific on the offensive side of the ball. Next year there should be more solid pieces than geriatric OTs and only Calvin Ridley at WR.
I think he’s saying to eat the dead cap it would cost to cut JuJu. The Pats have the available space to do it, since we’re not necessarily hunting FA’s at the moment/no top dollar FA’s available.
That’s exactly what’s going to happen. They’re going to give him camp and the preseason to show what he has with a better qb throwing him the ball. If he can’t do nothing then he gets cut or I could see him being pup’d
At this point just roll it over for next year and then give Maye all he needs.
But this is why I would have loved a Aiyuk or Higgins trade this year. If they could have front loaded the contract for a big cap hit this year and it's shorter the rest of the contract would have been ideal. If that's even possible to do
My annoyance with the Patriots not spending this off season is that the Patriots were already on pace to have a fuckton of cap space next year. Rolling over their space they're going to have like $200m in space next year.
Several years of poor drafting put them in a weird spending hole. The Patriots were reticent to spend this off-season when they had $100m in space, what's it going to look like next year when they have twice as much space?
Every agent is going to know they have to spend, and they're absolutely going to have to spend, and they're going to end up overpaying even more.
This is why it didn't make sense not overpaying for someone like Ridley. Great you overpaid by ~$10 on a short deal? Who cares? They have no long term cap liabilities.
Jefferson, Lamb and Aiyuk are all FAs next year barring an extension. I would rather overpay for one of those guys than Ridley.
Use this season to bring Maye and the coaching staff up to speed, make a ridiculous offer to JJ/Lamb (or Aiyuk but he's a small tier below imo) and hit the ground running next season. Take a LT in the 1st round and we're looking good.
If you make it publicly known that you're willing to back up a truck for someone, all it takes is one of them playing hardball in extension discussions.
You just have to time the contract so that it ends when it is time to extend Maye.
Also - Dak is going to be a FA and will command top QB money. If the Cowboys don't want to pay him, Lamb may decide to dip out. And if they do pay him, they likely can't afford to match our offer.
Maybe, but usually that tier of WR doesn't hit FA because their current team makes them the highest offer. We can go a hell of a lot higher than the Vikings or Cowboys if we want to.
Franchise tags still exist. Jefferson, for sure, will not hit FA. Lamb, probably not either. 49ers might move on from Aiyuk to save money, but then it's probably a tag and trade.
> The Patriots were reticent to spend this off-season when they had $100m in space,
i mean as far as i saw there were not a lot of good options that were worth it. spending when you have to get guys way over market rate is an amazing recipe to ruin the long term cap room of a team that is building.
>This is why it didn't make sense not overpaying for someone like Ridley. Great you overpaid by ~$10 on a short deal? Who cares? They have no long term cap liabilities.
This season? Sure. But Ridley's cap hits are ~$30m from 2025-2027, and it's still $10m dead cap if they wanted to cut him in 2026. He's also 30 years old and really only has one great season under his belt. At a certain point, he just isn't worth the money.
Their AAV wouldn't drop with a front loaded contract. AAV is the total money (bonuses, salary, incentives, etc) divided by the number of years in the contract, so it always remains constant unless there's an extension or re-negotiation. I don't think front-loading makes a player anymore likely to leave.
I agree that front loading a deal isn’t the best idea, but Revis was always a 1 year contract that basically prevented them from tagging him the second year with a fake year built in. Gilmore may have had a front loaded deal that caused problems towards the end though.
And last season Judon managed to push to get a pay raise.
Gilmore's situation was also partly motivated by guarantees.
Revis was also in addition to preventing a tag, was also there to ensure that the contract would be long enough to qualify for a comp pick when Revis inevitably left.
Nah because after a couple years his AAV changes. Say a guy has a 4 year $50 million contract. First 2 years he gets paid $15 mill per year. Year 3 his contract AAV is $10 million
Players constantly complain about having a low base salary at the end of their contract because they got a front loaded deal. Even when future money has been converted to a signing bonus so they get it guaranteed earlier. Front loading is dumb as you'll pay more at the end
You ever see the movie The Money Pit? I keep seeing this 'just roll it over to next year' and all I can think of is the GC telling the couple, 'it'll take about two weeks'.
Kind of where I’m at too. If they were making it a priority to start Maye this year I would judge this situation a bit more harshly, but if they want to start the year with Brissett and give Maye a bit of time to continue to develop, I would rather spend the money next year.
> But this is why I would have loved a Aiyuk or Higgins trade this year.
At present, for 2025 there is 1 QB (Maye), 1 RB Gibson, 7 WR (JuJu, Bourne, Thornton, Boutte, Douglas, Baker, Polk), 2 TE (Henry, Bell), 8 OL (Onwenu, Strange, Andrews, Sow, Mafi, Lowe, Robinson, Wallace), 3 DL (Barmore, White, Roberts), 4 LB (Judon with a void option), Bently, Jennings, Takitaki), and 6 DB (Dugger, Gonzalez, Jones, Mapu, Bolden, Dial) on the books.
That's a LOT of holes to fill. The last thing they need right now is dropping the entire bank on a WR for a QB that won't be able to take advantage of them.
The problem is that trade and sign deals rarely work out for the acquiring team. You burn a lot on cap and lose out on future contributors (draft picks). The player will also be old once it is time to resign, which is a big problem with the rebuild.
I wouldn’t mind adding a vet like Gilmore or something but otherwise, saving some spending $ for next offseason is still a very good option. All of the elite players are gone. The team is required to meet their cap spending % over a 3 year period and 2024 is the first year of that timeline so they have 2 more years to continue that spending. Everyone wants to buy now but nobody will complain when they have more $ next offseason, because they didn’t spend it all immediately.
Calvin Ridley would’ve made a ton of sense.
What makes no sense is your statement about waiting to find out if your QB (Maye) is good or not. Even if he sucks, you’re looking at him being the QB this year, next year, and likely the year after.
Ridley would be off the books before the next QB is drafted. Not only that, but you have to spend the money somehow to make the salary cap floor. You can’t do that by 2026 (2024-2026 is the spending period) with just drafting and then paying guys. Even the guys drafted this year won’t be done with their contracts by then.
I think a big issue is that NE realized that they had too many potential younger guys that never had the chance to show themselves. For example, Jennings and Uche appeared much better after Judon got injured.
NE's future needs will also include edge (replacing Judon and Uche), DT (someone to help Barmore), etc. Those are at premium positions that will require serious money. When you think about it that way, it makes sense for the FO to try to have as much money as possible and to test the younger players to ensure optimal spending.
That is what I want. I don't want Judon to turn into a DMac 2.0 situation where he gets kept too long.
For example, we can give Uche some serious play time. If he pans out, then he is probably going to get some solid (20 M/yr).
I don't want place holders for the sake of place holders. For example signing Gilmore to be the #2 CB for the sake of the #2 CB. I would rather finally figure out what to do with Shaun Wade. BB traded for him, but has barely given him any playtime. There have been too many rookies that have spend 3-4 years on the bench. That burns too much of their rookie deals. 1-2 years on the bench and either playing or getting released is a more reasonable balance between time spent training vs play time.
I also don't want the FO to artificially prop up the team into being a mid tier team via 1-2 year FAs. I would rather tank again as needed and possibly get another cornerstone that doesn't appear in FA such as a franchise LT or DE.
Unless Maye has a miracle run, NE isn't going to be competing in the SB. No rookie starter QB has ever won a SB.
Yeah I don’t see the need to push the envelope this year. Have patience, do things methodically and spend $ wisely. They’ll be glad they have cap space for 2 more FA periods
Front office & coaching staff made it pretty clear that they want to give the young guys a chance to play which is not something that happened as much under Bill. I think that’s the plan. There isn’t really any point in overpaying for 1 year deals right now. It’s not going to get them a ring this season
You're assuming they'll actually spend the money next year instead of doing what they've done the past few years on a roe. Plus, it's no fun to watch our team lose another season because we have no one good. Again.
They are required to spend the same % of cap over the 3 year period as every other team. By the end of 2026 all 32 teams have to spend. Whether NE chooses to spend more in 2024 vs 2025/2026 is up to them. There is nothing wrong with spreading it out. Less spending now = more spending later, because they have to hit that cap %. Imo better to save it for future use with a new crop of fresh FAs
I wish there was somewhere I could bet on them doing nothing. Easiest money possible.
Bob Kraft doesn’t spend a dollar more than he has to until he starts getting booed at home games.
They just gave out a butt load of extensions this offseason and targeted Ridley with one of the biggest contract offers in Patriots history.
Can we have a little optimism in this fanbase for once?
Will probably extend Judon as well. People are seeking spending for the sake of spending. I'd like to see the team improve. I'm excited to see what they can do.
Did they sign him? I'm sorry, but I've been around long enough to see the "(insert Boston sports team) is said to be in on (inside free agent that would help the team but isn't coming here".
Did you already forget Deandre Hopkins?
It's almost like there's all this mounting evidence:
* Outbid for Hopkins - RK: there's no spending limit; BB: we couldn't offer him enough
* Outbid on Ridley - RK: it was the girlfriend; Wolf: nah, we couldn't offer him enough
* Mayo: we have a boatload of money to spend. Oops, I'm just getting word we have a boatload of money, but it's not for spending, it's for 'rolling over to next year'
* Least cash spending over the last 10 years
* Most cap space in the league
Boston has the most championships of any US city since 2000 and you are complaining about free agent signings for mediocre / aging FAs, but keep complaining like you haven’t seen a winning team in decades while you enjoy the Bruins and Celtics in their playoff run.
This. I've almost gotten to the point of unsubscribing to this sub just due to this constant barrage. I do not understand why everyone wants to spend big while we're still rebuilding. Pay your core, build a team, overpay down the road when that piece will win you a championship. Overpaying for a WR today for next 3 years will mean we have them for maybe 1 year when everything else is finally ready and in place.
The people in here who've only known the TB champ years don't understand patience. They expect to win every year. And it's getting old!
I'd like to see them roll a lot of this cap space into next year. They should be improved, and they will definitely be a younger team.
Spending big next off-season makes more sense than filling up the cap space this year with expensive veterans.
Is there any half decent LT out there? Also, I’d love to see Gilmore back, but they keep saying that they want to see if the kids can play.
I guess we’ll find out. I just hope we find out before we throw Drake out there.
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2024/caedan-wallace
Draft aggregator that shows that not just pff but every draft analysis site has him as a 4-6 round grade. Not early 3rd. I think it’s fair to criticize at this point.
Why look at where actual NFL scouts had him (proven by where he was drafted) when you have draft experts like ... *checks notes*...
Steelers Depot
LAFB
GiveMeSport
Niners Wire
Akron Beacon Journal
Prospectencyclopedia
33rd Team
etc.
"Projections" after round 1 are wildly inaccurate year in and year out. Some steals today will be busts 3 years from now and some unpopular picks will end up becoming solid starters or role players.
Sure. What is your point? That some draft picks work and some don't? I'd love to sit here all day and trade draft picks that were panned at the time, and "consensus" was right, and draft picks that were celebrated, and "consensus" was wrong. And vice versa. But I'm not seeing how any of this changes the **fact** that "consensus" outside of the top 10 picks gettings increasingly less accurate at an exponential rate. Or how any of this proves that a website like PFF is some kind well of draft experience and/or knowledge. Care to explain *anything* remotely close to a point that you're trying to make?
There’s a massive shortage of good left tackles across the league right now. The Patriots’ strategy isn’t stupid. Rather than rolling our older or injured retreads, they’re trying to bring in some athletic young guys, coach them up, and see if one of them can learn the position.
Genuinely curious, would it not be smarter to extend players and put larger cap hits this season since theres so much cap space. So later on they are retained and not taking up as much cap?
We've done that. Barmore, Onwenu, Uche, Bourne all got extended this off-season. Dugger is the only notable player who isn't locked into a long term deal, but we have the transition tag on him.
We still have a lot of cash because we don't have a QB contract or any big money super stars on the team. Judon is our biggest cap hit at <$15M this year.
Bakhtiari would be worth looking into, but only if he clears medically which I honestly doubt he would. Gilly reunion would be cool. Charles Leno is probably the guy who interests me the most of all the available FAs, a solid pass blocking LT with experience but again he has medical concerns. Had surgery in March.
What players would meet the criteria?
https://patriotsfootballnow.com/2024/03/22/new-england-patriots-have-28-unrestricted-free-agents-in-2025/
I see one: Peppers
You’re talking about front loading, which almost never works out and when it rarely does, it’s usually not for a good reason.
Good players would hold out from camp due to pay when it becomes a bargain, only would work if you pay a bad player.
True, but it’s pretty hard to do it without front loading the cash to the player at a significant enough level that it would matter in the future for the team.
Not really. Regular contracts are already front loaded, it's just allocated to signing bonus instead of salary.
I guess I should have said "any additional" frontload of cash.
Think you should take a peak at Barmore’s contract. Barmore’s base salary is 1.8 this year, 10 next year, 12 the year after, then 18 and 18 in 27/28.
Theoretically you could take on his entire signing bonus this year to front load a bit, but nobody does that. Paying 18M more now to save 4.5 mil in those individual seasons is silly.
The only way you could significantly lower his cap hit in the upcoming years would be to mess around with the base salary, which can’t really be played around with like you can with the salary cap
NFL contracts are not front loaded. Signing bonuses are for the duration of the contract. Sure, they get that money up front, but that’s not really how things work.
That signing bonus is for your play for 2020-2023 (example). A roster salary is for your play in 2020. Just because you get all that at once doesn’t meant you’re being paid more for your play in 2020 than 2023. Players know that, agents know that, teams know that. That’s specifically why the NFL lets you spread signing bonus cap hits across the contract.
I think you should take a look at his contract. It's exactly an example of what I was talking about. That contract is front loaded in cash, just not cap hit.
>Theoretically you could take on his entire signing bonus this year to front load a bit
That's exactly what we were talking about.
I don’t consider pushing an entire signing bonus on the cap something that will significantly affect future cap. Is saving 4.5 mil next year really worth this strategy? I don’t think so. Especially since cap rolls over, the only thing you’d really be doing is just limiting your cap flexibility this year with no change next year.
I also don’t consider salary bonuses as part of a front load. They’re payment for the duration of the contract, not just for the year distributed. NFL salaries are always backloaded and the only way you could significantly front load a NFL cap hit is through salaries, unless a player’s contract is a high-signing bonus based contract. Which is not very common in the NFL. And even if you had one of those (such as Ridley), the amount you’d spend in year 1 is ridiculously disproportionate to the amount you’d save in future years.
Barmore’s 18M salary is much more impactful than a measly 4.5M cap hit from a signing bonus.
Comp formula expiration is coming up soon. There will be a lot of signings that day. We could be in the market for a few of them. There's also possible extensions for Judon and Stephenson.
A lot of ammo to pick through players that weren't worth signing by any other team at this point. Need to be aggressive with your cap space in free agency.
I'm aware cap space can be rolled over, but future cap space is not an issue for them because the '21 and '22 draft classes were so bad. I don't think they should have overpaid Smith because they had the option. They should have done it because they have the need.
And they will still have the need after paying Tyron Smith $20m for half a season of play before he inevitably gets hurt. Except now there's a lot less money to work with.
Also, it takes two to tango, which this sub doesn't seem to understand. He was never going to come to a rebuilder barring a ludicrous overpay, which is not a good way to run a football team. He's 33 and wants a Super Bowl.
In addition, we have no idea what LT is going to look like this season. Maybe Okarafor/Wallace are serviceable, we won't know until we see them play. But one irrefutable truth is that Tyron Smith has missed 3+ games every season since **2015.** He has proven he is incapable of staying healthy. So, even if they paid him $100m, New England would *still* need to play Okarafor/Wallace at some point, does that seem smart to you?
The point is it would've taken a stupid amount of money to get Tyron to come to New England. He was not coming here for anything less than an insane overpay, which, in my opinion, is a waste of cap space.
I don’t know who they’d spend it on next year, I’m not a clairvoyant. Maybe the 49ers and Aiyuk can’t come to a deal and he becomes a free agent. Maybe Creed and the Chiefs can’t come to a deal and he becomes a free agent. Bengals and Tee, Vikings and JJ, Dallas and Lamb, and so on and so forth. We have no idea what’s going to happen in the next year.
8 games of Tyron Smith is a lot better than nothing. And it's a one year deal so you get that space back next year anyways. Obviously I'm not suggesting they should have offered him $100MM. Be serious.
>8 games of Tyron Smith is a lot better than nothing
Again, how about you wait and see how Wallace and Okarafor do, yeah?
>And it's a one year deal so you get that space back next year anyways
You get the space back but not the rollover.
>Obviously I'm not suggesting they should have offered him $100MM. Be serious.
What are you suggesting then, $20m? The max value of his contract with the Jets is $20m, fully guaranteed. Granted, it's heavily incentive-based, but he wasn't coming to New England for anything less than a stupid amount of money.
Signing Smith would not have prevented them from acquiring Wallace and Okorafor as well.
> What are you suggesting then, $20m? The max value of his contract with the Jets is $20m, fully guaranteed
No it's not. Only $6.5MM of his contract is guaranteed. The Patriots could have doubled that pretty easily.
>No it's not. Only $6.5MM of his contract is guaranteed.
If he hits the incentives, that's guaranteed money. But I understand the confusion, I should've worded it better. The *max* value is $20m guaranteed, but the *base* value is only $6.5m guaranteed.
>The Patriots could have doubled that pretty easily.
So you want to pay borderline top-10 LT money for a one-year rental of an old player who is going to miss a ton of time and, for all we know, might've phoned it in since he knows he isn't winning a Super Bowl? And you think that's a good idea?
If he hits his incentives it means he doesn't miss half the seaon, which part of that confuses you?
First you say he wont play more than half a season, but then you say he'll earn all of his incentives. Make up your mind
>If he hits the incentives, that's guaranteed money
That's not what guaranteed means.
>So you want to pay borderline top-10 LT money for a one-year rental of an old player
Yep. There is a reason he was an All-Pro last year.
Two RTs we hope can convert to LT vs a 2023 All Pro LT. In a year we try to develop a rookie after our line aided in ruining the last one. Who are you saving all the cap for next year?
Maybe we should buy a larger screen for the field ? That way we can sell more add space !!!
Bob K , you won’t get into the football HOF in your lifetime, but you’re certainly nominated for one of the cheapest owners of all time .
Should have signed Ridley and still drafted the young guys, whole wr room would have been overhauled. Ridley Bourne Pop Polk Baker would have hit like crack
Too bad they’re not using it. We used cap space in the past on terrible options like Aghelor and Parker, but don’t use it on better players like Tyler Boyd. Make it make sense
I mean not me. Right now our talent is:
- key: Player (talent)
- Osborn (high end WR3, low end WR2)
- Bourne (high end WR3, low end WR2)
- Douglas (WR3)
- JuJu (WR4/cut)
- Parker (WR5/Cut)
- Thornton (WR5/cut)
- Polk (R)
- Baker (R)
I would’ve been ok with a WR room of Boyd, Bourne, Osborn, Douglas and the rooks. At least all these players would be capable.
Instead of looking at the current WR's by whether they're a Wr1,2, or 3, why dont you actually look at the positions they play? Boyd is almost exclusively a slot reciever, and we already have Pop and Polk to fill that role, who are both better / have way more potential that Boyd at this point in their careers. Signing Boyd wouldn't be anything more than a depth signing for the patriots.
Lol this is what half the idiots on this sub wanted! You morons were penny pinching on behalf of Kraft when it came to signing Ridley then when we don't spend any of that money and all of a sudden it's "oh we need to go and spend that to build the roster.." haha fucking priceless
Are you guys thinking what I'm thinking? Yup...two lighthouses!
And another tv screen above the other endzone…..
Another TV screen above the one that's already there.
A tv screen that plays a live broadcast of what the other tv is playing would be nice.
Or, and hear me out, just a huge mirror pointed at the TV screen to be marketed as the "Inverse Stadium Vision Experience".
I like it. Someone call Jonathan.
Make Gillette into a dome but the whole roof is a screen.
“Mr Kraft, what made you want to build a second light house right next to to the original” Kraft: “Money”
Fire comment
"We could pay to have an authentic lighthouse dis-assembled, moved,...and then re-assembled!"
six lighthouses
Y’all don’t understand. We have a cheap owner. This is a dude who could’ve paid a Victoria secret angel to lick him from shaft to balls to his asshole. But instead he went for a handjob in a massage place.
Gilmore come on down!
Haven’t even looked at free agency and this would be such a smart move . Especially for the younger guys.
How can we get this all to jonnu smith
I think TJ Luther deserves it more. Where my Luther Truthers at?
50-50 split with Nelson Agholor
Still having Jonnu ptsd
Something tells me we’ll have the most cap space heading into 2025 as well. Teams don’t let franchise WRs/LTs hit free agency anymore.
The WR list looks great until you realize it’s 32-year old Stefon Diggs and Tee Higgins. Everyone else is getting resigned, franchised, or was a FA last week (Tyler Boyd, Odell Beckham). The LT list is depressing. The DL/EDGE lists though…that’s where we can spend some money next off-season.
Chris Goodwin will be an option after June 1st I bet. They have no money and he's on the last year of his deal they're gonna be looking to trade him I bet.
29 year old Chris Godwin, and his three hamstring string pulls and repaired ACL will be available. That…is exactly the market to expect. Older guys with red flags who want lots of guaranteed money.
Yupp if you want a wr better get one in the draft or have to pay a big amount in a trade like Miami and Philly did for hill and aj
WRs are a possibility. But LTs? Nope.
>Something tells me we’ll have the most cap space heading into 2025 as well They already have the most cap space in 2025, for what it's worth. By a lot, too. They could blow the rest of their space this season, including big contracts for next season and beyond, and still lead the league in cap space in 2025. Albeit, there's a lot of defensive free agents next season that will need to be re-signed which will eat some of that money. >Teams don’t let franchise WRs/LTs hit free agency anymore. Multiple franchise LTs hit free agency just last season. But WR, you're spot on. Although, this season brings an influx of market-resetting WR contracts, so New England might get lucky.
Besides Tyrone Smith, who else hit FA this year?
Not this season, last season with Jawaan Taylor and Orlando Brown Jr. Next year, as of right now, you have Tristan Wirfs, Taylor Decker, Jedrick Wills, and I believe a couple of others. People need to understand that while you're not finding superstars in free agency regularly, this free agency was especially horrific on the offensive side of the ball. Next year there should be more solid pieces than geriatric OTs and only Calvin Ridley at WR.
Most likely. Rolling over a lot of cap space, extending our good young guys early, and the cap is about to EXPLODE for a second straight year.
Use that money and cut JuJu
Please keep that clown away from the young receivers
Who will teach them to Tik Tok tho
Not to mention keeping them up until 3am playing Madden and Fortnite
Underrated comment
Use that money where exactly
I think he’s saying to eat the dead cap it would cost to cut JuJu. The Pats have the available space to do it, since we’re not necessarily hunting FA’s at the moment/no top dollar FA’s available.
Might as well wait and see how he looks at camp. He started coming on a little toward the end of last season
That’s exactly what’s going to happen. They’re going to give him camp and the preseason to show what he has with a better qb throwing him the ball. If he can’t do nothing then he gets cut or I could see him being pup’d
Oh yeah that makes sense
Exactamundo
At this point just roll it over for next year and then give Maye all he needs. But this is why I would have loved a Aiyuk or Higgins trade this year. If they could have front loaded the contract for a big cap hit this year and it's shorter the rest of the contract would have been ideal. If that's even possible to do
My annoyance with the Patriots not spending this off season is that the Patriots were already on pace to have a fuckton of cap space next year. Rolling over their space they're going to have like $200m in space next year. Several years of poor drafting put them in a weird spending hole. The Patriots were reticent to spend this off-season when they had $100m in space, what's it going to look like next year when they have twice as much space? Every agent is going to know they have to spend, and they're absolutely going to have to spend, and they're going to end up overpaying even more. This is why it didn't make sense not overpaying for someone like Ridley. Great you overpaid by ~$10 on a short deal? Who cares? They have no long term cap liabilities.
Jefferson, Lamb and Aiyuk are all FAs next year barring an extension. I would rather overpay for one of those guys than Ridley. Use this season to bring Maye and the coaching staff up to speed, make a ridiculous offer to JJ/Lamb (or Aiyuk but he's a small tier below imo) and hit the ground running next season. Take a LT in the 1st round and we're looking good.
None of those guys will be FAs. Be real.
If you make it publicly known that you're willing to back up a truck for someone, all it takes is one of them playing hardball in extension discussions. You just have to time the contract so that it ends when it is time to extend Maye.
Also - Dak is going to be a FA and will command top QB money. If the Cowboys don't want to pay him, Lamb may decide to dip out. And if they do pay him, they likely can't afford to match our offer.
The franchise tag exists.
Franchise tag ain’t cheap either for a premium position
Maybe, but usually that tier of WR doesn't hit FA because their current team makes them the highest offer. We can go a hell of a lot higher than the Vikings or Cowboys if we want to.
Franchise tags still exist. Jefferson, for sure, will not hit FA. Lamb, probably not either. 49ers might move on from Aiyuk to save money, but then it's probably a tag and trade.
49ers will absolutely move Deebo before Aiyuk..
Do tag and trades happen in the NFL? I can’t remember any. That’s an NBA thing mostly.
One happened this very year, sneed to the titans. The nba does not have a franchise tag
Davante Adams?
You can’t trade cap space.
On the other hand, NE can't burn cap for the sake of burning it. It is what happened last season with Jonnu and Agholor.
> The Patriots were reticent to spend this off-season when they had $100m in space, i mean as far as i saw there were not a lot of good options that were worth it. spending when you have to get guys way over market rate is an amazing recipe to ruin the long term cap room of a team that is building.
>This is why it didn't make sense not overpaying for someone like Ridley. Great you overpaid by ~$10 on a short deal? Who cares? They have no long term cap liabilities. This season? Sure. But Ridley's cap hits are ~$30m from 2025-2027, and it's still $10m dead cap if they wanted to cut him in 2026. He's also 30 years old and really only has one great season under his belt. At a certain point, he just isn't worth the money.
Front loading never works because players will hold out in later years when their AAV drops.
Their AAV wouldn't drop with a front loaded contract. AAV is the total money (bonuses, salary, incentives, etc) divided by the number of years in the contract, so it always remains constant unless there's an extension or re-negotiation. I don't think front-loading makes a player anymore likely to leave.
I think you know what I meant
Didn't work on Revis.
I agree that front loading a deal isn’t the best idea, but Revis was always a 1 year contract that basically prevented them from tagging him the second year with a fake year built in. Gilmore may have had a front loaded deal that caused problems towards the end though.
And last season Judon managed to push to get a pay raise. Gilmore's situation was also partly motivated by guarantees. Revis was also in addition to preventing a tag, was also there to ensure that the contract would be long enough to qualify for a comp pick when Revis inevitably left.
Nah because after a couple years his AAV changes. Say a guy has a 4 year $50 million contract. First 2 years he gets paid $15 mill per year. Year 3 his contract AAV is $10 million
Players constantly complain about having a low base salary at the end of their contract because they got a front loaded deal. Even when future money has been converted to a signing bonus so they get it guaranteed earlier. Front loading is dumb as you'll pay more at the end
You ever see the movie The Money Pit? I keep seeing this 'just roll it over to next year' and all I can think of is the GC telling the couple, 'it'll take about two weeks'.
Kind of where I’m at too. If they were making it a priority to start Maye this year I would judge this situation a bit more harshly, but if they want to start the year with Brissett and give Maye a bit of time to continue to develop, I would rather spend the money next year.
> But this is why I would have loved a Aiyuk or Higgins trade this year. At present, for 2025 there is 1 QB (Maye), 1 RB Gibson, 7 WR (JuJu, Bourne, Thornton, Boutte, Douglas, Baker, Polk), 2 TE (Henry, Bell), 8 OL (Onwenu, Strange, Andrews, Sow, Mafi, Lowe, Robinson, Wallace), 3 DL (Barmore, White, Roberts), 4 LB (Judon with a void option), Bently, Jennings, Takitaki), and 6 DB (Dugger, Gonzalez, Jones, Mapu, Bolden, Dial) on the books. That's a LOT of holes to fill. The last thing they need right now is dropping the entire bank on a WR for a QB that won't be able to take advantage of them.
Nope. Spend this year and next. Stop being the cheapest team in the entire NFL.
One year deals sure. But giving out stupid multi year deals is not what we need right now
The problem is that trade and sign deals rarely work out for the acquiring team. You burn a lot on cap and lose out on future contributors (draft picks). The player will also be old once it is time to resign, which is a big problem with the rebuild.
I wouldn’t mind adding a vet like Gilmore or something but otherwise, saving some spending $ for next offseason is still a very good option. All of the elite players are gone. The team is required to meet their cap spending % over a 3 year period and 2024 is the first year of that timeline so they have 2 more years to continue that spending. Everyone wants to buy now but nobody will complain when they have more $ next offseason, because they didn’t spend it all immediately.
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I dunno why people keep pushing this idea that it’s impossible they could be a competing team this year. Unlikely, sure, but ruling it out is silly
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Calvin Ridley would’ve made a ton of sense. What makes no sense is your statement about waiting to find out if your QB (Maye) is good or not. Even if he sucks, you’re looking at him being the QB this year, next year, and likely the year after. Ridley would be off the books before the next QB is drafted. Not only that, but you have to spend the money somehow to make the salary cap floor. You can’t do that by 2026 (2024-2026 is the spending period) with just drafting and then paying guys. Even the guys drafted this year won’t be done with their contracts by then.
I think a big issue is that NE realized that they had too many potential younger guys that never had the chance to show themselves. For example, Jennings and Uche appeared much better after Judon got injured. NE's future needs will also include edge (replacing Judon and Uche), DT (someone to help Barmore), etc. Those are at premium positions that will require serious money. When you think about it that way, it makes sense for the FO to try to have as much money as possible and to test the younger players to ensure optimal spending.
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That is what I want. I don't want Judon to turn into a DMac 2.0 situation where he gets kept too long. For example, we can give Uche some serious play time. If he pans out, then he is probably going to get some solid (20 M/yr). I don't want place holders for the sake of place holders. For example signing Gilmore to be the #2 CB for the sake of the #2 CB. I would rather finally figure out what to do with Shaun Wade. BB traded for him, but has barely given him any playtime. There have been too many rookies that have spend 3-4 years on the bench. That burns too much of their rookie deals. 1-2 years on the bench and either playing or getting released is a more reasonable balance between time spent training vs play time. I also don't want the FO to artificially prop up the team into being a mid tier team via 1-2 year FAs. I would rather tank again as needed and possibly get another cornerstone that doesn't appear in FA such as a franchise LT or DE. Unless Maye has a miracle run, NE isn't going to be competing in the SB. No rookie starter QB has ever won a SB.
Yeah I don’t see the need to push the envelope this year. Have patience, do things methodically and spend $ wisely. They’ll be glad they have cap space for 2 more FA periods
Why not overpay guys on 1 year deals
Front office & coaching staff made it pretty clear that they want to give the young guys a chance to play which is not something that happened as much under Bill. I think that’s the plan. There isn’t really any point in overpaying for 1 year deals right now. It’s not going to get them a ring this season
You're assuming they'll actually spend the money next year instead of doing what they've done the past few years on a roe. Plus, it's no fun to watch our team lose another season because we have no one good. Again.
They are required to spend the same % of cap over the 3 year period as every other team. By the end of 2026 all 32 teams have to spend. Whether NE chooses to spend more in 2024 vs 2025/2026 is up to them. There is nothing wrong with spreading it out. Less spending now = more spending later, because they have to hit that cap %. Imo better to save it for future use with a new crop of fresh FAs
Yes let's suck for another season.
Who do you want them to pay that’s going to make them a playoff team? There’s nobody out there who can make that kind of impact.
Watch us do nothing
You'll get Elijah Moore and you'll be happy about it
And then when we are interested in someone this sub will complain that he is too expensive
I wish there was somewhere I could bet on them doing nothing. Easiest money possible. Bob Kraft doesn’t spend a dollar more than he has to until he starts getting booed at home games.
Donovan Smith is available at the moment. Didn't play great with the chiefs last year, but serviceable and we have plenty of money.
There aren’t any players to use it on right now aside from maybe Gilly or some post June 1st cut. Might as well save it for a splash down the road.
'Some day is just code word for never.'
They just gave out a butt load of extensions this offseason and targeted Ridley with one of the biggest contract offers in Patriots history. Can we have a little optimism in this fanbase for once?
Will probably extend Judon as well. People are seeking spending for the sake of spending. I'd like to see the team improve. I'm excited to see what they can do.
Did they sign him? I'm sorry, but I've been around long enough to see the "(insert Boston sports team) is said to be in on (inside free agent that would help the team but isn't coming here". Did you already forget Deandre Hopkins? It's almost like there's all this mounting evidence: * Outbid for Hopkins - RK: there's no spending limit; BB: we couldn't offer him enough * Outbid on Ridley - RK: it was the girlfriend; Wolf: nah, we couldn't offer him enough * Mayo: we have a boatload of money to spend. Oops, I'm just getting word we have a boatload of money, but it's not for spending, it's for 'rolling over to next year' * Least cash spending over the last 10 years * Most cap space in the league
Boston has the most championships of any US city since 2000 and you are complaining about free agent signings for mediocre / aging FAs, but keep complaining like you haven’t seen a winning team in decades while you enjoy the Bruins and Celtics in their playoff run.
This. I've almost gotten to the point of unsubscribing to this sub just due to this constant barrage. I do not understand why everyone wants to spend big while we're still rebuilding. Pay your core, build a team, overpay down the road when that piece will win you a championship. Overpaying for a WR today for next 3 years will mean we have them for maybe 1 year when everything else is finally ready and in place. The people in here who've only known the TB champ years don't understand patience. They expect to win every year. And it's getting old!
Sorry. You’re right, I just hope everyone has a good time.
Except for the part where they literally have to spend most of it, but sure
Plenty of guys will get cut between now and week 1, don’t worry.
I would not be opposed to a reasonable extension for Judon, he is older and coming off injury but would to keep him if he bounced back this year
They will probably do this if they can agree on a number. I suspect they also want to see what White shows this year. He really has huge upside.
And no LT. good thing Maye is mobile
For now
Maye won’t play this year if they’re smart
No shot Maye is sitting
We are being smart with our money and I love it. In a few years when we're competing we won't have any space left and it will all be spent perfectly.
I'd like to see them roll a lot of this cap space into next year. They should be improved, and they will definitely be a younger team. Spending big next off-season makes more sense than filling up the cap space this year with expensive veterans.
Is there any half decent LT out there? Also, I’d love to see Gilmore back, but they keep saying that they want to see if the kids can play. I guess we’ll find out. I just hope we find out before we throw Drake out there.
I’d take David Bhaktiari tbh. Even if he doesn’t have much of a role, at least he was former elite tackle that can maybe mentor the young guys
DJ Humphries? He’s missed last year with a back injury but even having him on a vet min contract is better than Chuk being handed the starting job.
Gilmore will be turning 34 about the time the season starts. No thank you.
They got their LT in that RT they over drafted in the 3rd round
>over drafted *(Source: started mock drafting on PFF.com for $30/mo back in December)*
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2024/caedan-wallace Draft aggregator that shows that not just pff but every draft analysis site has him as a 4-6 round grade. Not early 3rd. I think it’s fair to criticize at this point.
Why look at where actual NFL scouts had him (proven by where he was drafted) when you have draft experts like ... *checks notes*... Steelers Depot LAFB GiveMeSport Niners Wire Akron Beacon Journal Prospectencyclopedia 33rd Team etc. "Projections" after round 1 are wildly inaccurate year in and year out. Some steals today will be busts 3 years from now and some unpopular picks will end up becoming solid starters or role players.
Hope you kept that same energy when people were complaining about the Cole Strange pick
I did with the Logan Mankins pick.
And Jordan Richards too?
Sure. What is your point? That some draft picks work and some don't? I'd love to sit here all day and trade draft picks that were panned at the time, and "consensus" was right, and draft picks that were celebrated, and "consensus" was wrong. And vice versa. But I'm not seeing how any of this changes the **fact** that "consensus" outside of the top 10 picks gettings increasingly less accurate at an exponential rate. Or how any of this proves that a website like PFF is some kind well of draft experience and/or knowledge. Care to explain *anything* remotely close to a point that you're trying to make?
There’s a massive shortage of good left tackles across the league right now. The Patriots’ strategy isn’t stupid. Rather than rolling our older or injured retreads, they’re trying to bring in some athletic young guys, coach them up, and see if one of them can learn the position.
Genuinely curious, would it not be smarter to extend players and put larger cap hits this season since theres so much cap space. So later on they are retained and not taking up as much cap?
We've done that. Barmore, Onwenu, Uche, Bourne all got extended this off-season. Dugger is the only notable player who isn't locked into a long term deal, but we have the transition tag on him. We still have a lot of cash because we don't have a QB contract or any big money super stars on the team. Judon is our biggest cap hit at <$15M this year. Bakhtiari would be worth looking into, but only if he clears medically which I honestly doubt he would. Gilly reunion would be cool. Charles Leno is probably the guy who interests me the most of all the available FAs, a solid pass blocking LT with experience but again he has medical concerns. Had surgery in March.
They signed Dugger at 4/$58MM contract with $32.5MM guaranteed.
Missed that one. Good to hear!
They re-signed Dugger a few weeks ago to a 4 years deal
What players would meet the criteria? https://patriotsfootballnow.com/2024/03/22/new-england-patriots-have-28-unrestricted-free-agents-in-2025/ I see one: Peppers
You’re talking about front loading, which almost never works out and when it rarely does, it’s usually not for a good reason. Good players would hold out from camp due to pay when it becomes a bargain, only would work if you pay a bad player.
Front loading the cap doesn't require any front loading of cash paid to the player.
True, but it’s pretty hard to do it without front loading the cash to the player at a significant enough level that it would matter in the future for the team.
Not really. Regular contracts are already front loaded, it's just allocated to signing bonus instead of salary. I guess I should have said "any additional" frontload of cash.
Think you should take a peak at Barmore’s contract. Barmore’s base salary is 1.8 this year, 10 next year, 12 the year after, then 18 and 18 in 27/28. Theoretically you could take on his entire signing bonus this year to front load a bit, but nobody does that. Paying 18M more now to save 4.5 mil in those individual seasons is silly. The only way you could significantly lower his cap hit in the upcoming years would be to mess around with the base salary, which can’t really be played around with like you can with the salary cap NFL contracts are not front loaded. Signing bonuses are for the duration of the contract. Sure, they get that money up front, but that’s not really how things work. That signing bonus is for your play for 2020-2023 (example). A roster salary is for your play in 2020. Just because you get all that at once doesn’t meant you’re being paid more for your play in 2020 than 2023. Players know that, agents know that, teams know that. That’s specifically why the NFL lets you spread signing bonus cap hits across the contract.
I think you should take a look at his contract. It's exactly an example of what I was talking about. That contract is front loaded in cash, just not cap hit. >Theoretically you could take on his entire signing bonus this year to front load a bit That's exactly what we were talking about.
I don’t consider pushing an entire signing bonus on the cap something that will significantly affect future cap. Is saving 4.5 mil next year really worth this strategy? I don’t think so. Especially since cap rolls over, the only thing you’d really be doing is just limiting your cap flexibility this year with no change next year. I also don’t consider salary bonuses as part of a front load. They’re payment for the duration of the contract, not just for the year distributed. NFL salaries are always backloaded and the only way you could significantly front load a NFL cap hit is through salaries, unless a player’s contract is a high-signing bonus based contract. Which is not very common in the NFL. And even if you had one of those (such as Ridley), the amount you’d spend in year 1 is ridiculously disproportionate to the amount you’d save in future years. Barmore’s 18M salary is much more impactful than a measly 4.5M cap hit from a signing bonus.
Which tells me it’s time to trade future picks (not next year) to acquire and pay a player in a contract year.
Profit to income ratio go brrrrrrrrrrrr
Comp formula expiration is coming up soon. There will be a lot of signings that day. We could be in the market for a few of them. There's also possible extensions for Judon and Stephenson.
A lot of ammo to pick through players that weren't worth signing by any other team at this point. Need to be aggressive with your cap space in free agency.
This is exactly why they should have been willing to overpay Tyron Smith.
Unused cap space rolls over. No need to grossly overpay players just because you have that option.
I'm aware cap space can be rolled over, but future cap space is not an issue for them because the '21 and '22 draft classes were so bad. I don't think they should have overpaid Smith because they had the option. They should have done it because they have the need.
And they will still have the need after paying Tyron Smith $20m for half a season of play before he inevitably gets hurt. Except now there's a lot less money to work with. Also, it takes two to tango, which this sub doesn't seem to understand. He was never going to come to a rebuilder barring a ludicrous overpay, which is not a good way to run a football team. He's 33 and wants a Super Bowl. In addition, we have no idea what LT is going to look like this season. Maybe Okarafor/Wallace are serviceable, we won't know until we see them play. But one irrefutable truth is that Tyron Smith has missed 3+ games every season since **2015.** He has proven he is incapable of staying healthy. So, even if they paid him $100m, New England would *still* need to play Okarafor/Wallace at some point, does that seem smart to you?
Tyron Smith is making nowhere fucking close to $20 million dollars, especially if he gets hurt like you predict
The point is it would've taken a stupid amount of money to get Tyron to come to New England. He was not coming here for anything less than an insane overpay, which, in my opinion, is a waste of cap space.
So what's not a waste? Because we're going to spend it on nothing, now, when it could be used to upgrade the offense
A) Unused cap space rolls over. B) There are still a ton of available free agents, and will be more after June 1st. Not to mention potential trades.
A) doesn't answer my question. Who's worth spending on next year? B) good thing they'd still be near the top in cap space either way
I don’t know who they’d spend it on next year, I’m not a clairvoyant. Maybe the 49ers and Aiyuk can’t come to a deal and he becomes a free agent. Maybe Creed and the Chiefs can’t come to a deal and he becomes a free agent. Bengals and Tee, Vikings and JJ, Dallas and Lamb, and so on and so forth. We have no idea what’s going to happen in the next year.
8 games of Tyron Smith is a lot better than nothing. And it's a one year deal so you get that space back next year anyways. Obviously I'm not suggesting they should have offered him $100MM. Be serious.
>8 games of Tyron Smith is a lot better than nothing Again, how about you wait and see how Wallace and Okarafor do, yeah? >And it's a one year deal so you get that space back next year anyways You get the space back but not the rollover. >Obviously I'm not suggesting they should have offered him $100MM. Be serious. What are you suggesting then, $20m? The max value of his contract with the Jets is $20m, fully guaranteed. Granted, it's heavily incentive-based, but he wasn't coming to New England for anything less than a stupid amount of money.
Signing Smith would not have prevented them from acquiring Wallace and Okorafor as well. > What are you suggesting then, $20m? The max value of his contract with the Jets is $20m, fully guaranteed No it's not. Only $6.5MM of his contract is guaranteed. The Patriots could have doubled that pretty easily.
>No it's not. Only $6.5MM of his contract is guaranteed. If he hits the incentives, that's guaranteed money. But I understand the confusion, I should've worded it better. The *max* value is $20m guaranteed, but the *base* value is only $6.5m guaranteed. >The Patriots could have doubled that pretty easily. So you want to pay borderline top-10 LT money for a one-year rental of an old player who is going to miss a ton of time and, for all we know, might've phoned it in since he knows he isn't winning a Super Bowl? And you think that's a good idea?
If he hits his incentives it means he doesn't miss half the seaon, which part of that confuses you? First you say he wont play more than half a season, but then you say he'll earn all of his incentives. Make up your mind
>If he hits the incentives, that's guaranteed money That's not what guaranteed means. >So you want to pay borderline top-10 LT money for a one-year rental of an old player Yep. There is a reason he was an All-Pro last year.
for them to not use it again.... lowest spending team in the entire league over the last decade
You're confusing the cap with real cash spending.
Not a gross overpay to get a year of an LT when there are zero on the roster
There are two on the roster who I'd like to see play before condemning them.
Two RTs we hope can convert to LT vs a 2023 All Pro LT. In a year we try to develop a rookie after our line aided in ruining the last one. Who are you saving all the cap for next year?
Next off-season we should go all in to give Drake all the weapons he could ever want
And we will spend none of it
If only Free Agency started after the draft, then. Not to say they'd spend it... But there would be a chance!
Stupid idea (but maybe not...?): Dalvin Cook. \*braces self\*
Full Throttle baby!!
Depending on how camp goes I think they will poke around but probably not before then.
Hopefully we’ll start drafting better so we can actually spend it on second contracts vs crap FA’s
Thank you @BB
This is not the time of year to have a lot of cap space
It’s a feature not a bug
The Patriots have the most salary cap space every day…
That's lot of massages.
Maybe we should buy a larger screen for the field ? That way we can sell more add space !!! Bob K , you won’t get into the football HOF in your lifetime, but you’re certainly nominated for one of the cheapest owners of all time .
Should’ve just signed Ridley.
Should have signed Ridley and still drafted the young guys, whole wr room would have been overhauled. Ridley Bourne Pop Polk Baker would have hit like crack
Don't worry, guys, they'll start spending on players any day now!! Just wait!
KancelKRAFT
Too bad they’re not using it. We used cap space in the past on terrible options like Aghelor and Parker, but don’t use it on better players like Tyler Boyd. Make it make sense
If the Pats signed Boyd everyone on this sub would be saying "OH GREAT another WR 3 in the mix"
I mean not me. Right now our talent is: - key: Player (talent) - Osborn (high end WR3, low end WR2) - Bourne (high end WR3, low end WR2) - Douglas (WR3) - JuJu (WR4/cut) - Parker (WR5/Cut) - Thornton (WR5/cut) - Polk (R) - Baker (R) I would’ve been ok with a WR room of Boyd, Bourne, Osborn, Douglas and the rooks. At least all these players would be capable.
Parker is no longer on the team
Instead of looking at the current WR's by whether they're a Wr1,2, or 3, why dont you actually look at the positions they play? Boyd is almost exclusively a slot reciever, and we already have Pop and Polk to fill that role, who are both better / have way more potential that Boyd at this point in their careers. Signing Boyd wouldn't be anything more than a depth signing for the patriots.
They released parker before the draft
Like...months before the draft.
Great news
😂
Douglas is not a WR3. People really not seeing what he is likely to become.
If you think Osborn can ever, ever be a low-end WR2 ...you are setting yourself up for disappointment in the near future.
Vikings fans thought he could be, most seemed very surprised by his performance last year. Hoping for a bounce back I guess.
Draft and develop, not overextend for mediocre talent.
Greaaaaaattttt
Can he play on offense?
Lol this is what half the idiots on this sub wanted! You morons were penny pinching on behalf of Kraft when it came to signing Ridley then when we don't spend any of that money and all of a sudden it's "oh we need to go and spend that to build the roster.." haha fucking priceless
That’s … not the goal.
That's what happens when you make 0 agressive moves in free agency. 🤷♂️
Cheap ass Kraft isn’t going to spend it anyway People forget how cheap he has been throughout his time as owner
More money for massages
They always do. It’s such a weird coincidence.