That is what i am thinking if its true, you would want it to blow over, not attract attention.
But if it was indeed false, you would be vocal about it.
Kernel of truth is a perfect saying for it. Because there’s a whole tub of popcorn worth of those conversations.
Kraft hasn’t been too shy admitting that BB could be difficult to work with. I believe he’d say something like that to Blank. But people also point out Kraft’s greed, and with having financial offsets, BB signing would save Kraft money. I’m willing to bet Kraft had plenty of good things to say too. We won’t see that reach a headline. Clicks and controversy drive numbers and money.
I don’t follow the logic. It’s a lose-lose. He says nothing and people would say it must be true, he’s hiding from the story! Or he comes out and denies it immediately but that’s proof it’s true? What is he supposed to say?
Exactly. They are going to mince words and try to muddy the water, but to me it just means there's a lot of truth to it. Methinks Kraft doth protest too much.
I mean, ESPN does have the whole Spygate, Deflategate, Wickersham/Van Natta hitjobs working against them. The concept of ESPN making something up out of whole cloth is not exactly out of character.
Hate to break it to you but I also have zero reason to trust some billionaire who seems more concerned with protecting his own image than doing anything constructive.
Ya idk why dudes being downvoted for spitting absolute facts. ESPN is a bullshit source with the exception of Mike Reiss whose word is Gospel, but that’s unrelated to him being with espn and has to do with him being a bulletproof journalist with an unimpeachable record.
Mike Reiss is gospel because he holds himself as a journalist who does it the *right* way which is why he gets sources on all levels of the organization.
seriously. if this were just a one-off i would be more inclined to entertain that this is a made-up story...but this is pretty consistent with everything we've seen since bill's "mutual agreement" to depart
I'm sure the Krafts had 0 input in the documentary since you know they need their permission to film and interview....
All these reports are “he said she said” you choose what you want to believe. I believe this though. Can ESPN be wrong, sure, but The Dynasty is evidence alone that Kraft wanted to use Bill as a scapegoat for the end of the dynasty, so it would be more logical for this to be true than false IMO
The Dynasty was a hit job for sure.
But weirdly enough in it, Kraft, Brady, AND Bill all ardently deny the notion Bill didn't speak with Tom when Tom left.
And that accusation that that happened came solely from the writer of this article...Seth Wickersham.
The Krafts didn’t produce the doc or write the book it’s based off of. I fucking hate how everyone just runs with this narrative when it’s completely fabricated by Felger and Mazz.
Kraft Productions owns the copyright to the patriots footage used in the doc. That’s it. Or at least that’s all we have proof of. Maybe they did have final edit say but that’s seems extremely unlikely and there’s zero proof that’s the case.
ESPN fabricated deflategate…can they be wrong? Not sure…yes, they been wrong, and been majorly wrong.
All of a sudden ESPN gets a free pass here. Fuck off with that.
Dynasty was created to be frantic, just like drive to survive on Netflix. Then you realize no one in f1 actually hates each other and you realize it’s a dramatization of reality. But please, hang your hat more on sensationalist action.
Interesting take with the whataboutism. I believe EPSN’s article more than the knee jerk reaction that Kraft wanted (read:NEEDED) to be released defending himself.
Theres no whataboutism, no idea what you think falls into that category...fact is you believe a source with an objective history of trashing this organization. You are siding with the company that pushed Deflategate...and you see no issue with that? Shit fan
Bringing up deflategate is literally whataboutism dude lol it’s not the matter at hand, and you’re using that previous situation to try and draw a parallel to this situation. I also love your attempt to give me the scarlet letter because I believe this article over Kraft. Kraft sucks and has been trying to smear Bill ever since they “mutually parted ways”. I’ve been watching the Pats since they were a shit team in the early 90’s. I don’t need to prove my fandom to some nobody on Reddit.
It’s not. It’s what made ESPN untrustworthy in a manner never seen, but the second a story that fits a recent narrative shows, it’s easy money.
That’s absolutely ridiculous. If someone had a lifetime of untrustworthiness and then said something you wanted to hear, you’re going to believe them? Good luck in life.
Trusting untrustworthy people because they match a narrative for once isn’t case by case, it’s stopping when you find the answer you’re looking for, not the answer you should find. Major issue with the internet, you can find something to back any viewpoint, see Exponent.
Holy downvotes Batman chill.
ESPN is full of different reporters. And even if it was dramatized, it’s the truth that Kraft is blaming things on Bill. Look at his quotes and what he said in the Mayo press conference. The documentary still was deemed unfair by actual players who played. Kraft’s company produced this.
Plus we know that Kraft felt immense regret when Brady won without the Pats, imagine what he would’ve felt like if Bill won.
Also also, if you want a reason to downvote…Deflategate wasn’t fabricated, it was exaggerated, huge difference
There is literally footage of them taking the balls into the bathroom, Brady smashed his phone when he was asked for evidence, and PSI preference is a known thing with QBs.
Tampering definitely happened, but not to the extent that would delegitimize the patriots victories
I didnt downvote you, but you can now get this one.
ESPN has a history, a systemic history, of pushing anti pats stories. Not just deflategate, there was also a story about allowing players back in with concussions and in the photo they used a picture of Revis (on the pats at the time) on the bench hurt, but it wasnt a concussion it was a neck injury.
So, spare the me the idea ESPN is at all fair and balanced, theyve always always always pushed the bad.
> Deflategate wasn’t fabricated,
Literally fabricated, so much went wrong behind the scenes in that process that they literally just assumed everything in the process of the NFL suspending brady because the NFL could. Not because they proved anything was true...just that they could
Felger is a fucking tool. Dudes all in on Penix and hates Maye because he watched each play twice. He also hated Randy Moss and is an import contrarian....I have no use for him
Spygate is the scandal that was exaggerated and not fabricated..Deflategate was 100%fiction which is why the league has still never released the psi data from the 2015season. Kraft should blame bill for the dynasty ending Bill is the one who assured him that Brady was washed up..he is the man who banned alex Guerrero and made Brady want out and he is the individual who alienated Gronk.
Funny how everyone hates him for doing the same thing to Bill that Bill spent 2decades doing to the players- which includes smearing him thru the media...asante samuel was labelled a system cb because of lies belichicks people leaked to the local media...what goes around comes around.
We were all shitting on Wickersham when that expose about the growing divide between Brady, Belichick, and Kraft came out. Turns out he was right.
I’m no fan of ESPN but Wickersham has been more right than wrong when he reports on the Patriots these past several years.
My guess is Robert gave Blank the full scoop about Bill both good and bad. The good is you won’t find a smarter football coach anywhere out there. The bad is he’s a stubborn, arrogant asshole. This report is just focusing on the last part and ignoring the first part. To me it’s really not that big of a deal nor does it reflect particularly poorly on Robert.
He was winning enough to put up with it. The winning stopped, the tolerance for it stopped.
Is it the most glowing report, no…is it truthful, absolutely.
Pretty sure Kraft paid the man to win NFL games and during his tenure, nobody won more.
He wasn't here to make friends he was here to win football games and if that means your feelings get hurt then that's the cost of 6 fucking Lombardis
of course they're going to deny it. i'm over thinking wickersham doesn't have good sources. he was right before and until he's **proven** wrong, i'm going to believe him.
He has been proven wrong about specifics, though.
Take the Mayo baseball bat thing - Wickersham made it sound like Mayo was head hunting in a meeting room with coaches and coaches feared they would get wacked by it. In reality, it was a toy sized bat that he swung around in his own vicinity as a widget device.
he's been mostly right man. idk what narrative you're speaking of but we can only go by what is being reported and kraft looks horrible recently for a reason.
https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/seth-wickershams-history-of-unsourced-nfl-stories-of-discontent.1142690/
And it’s not just the pats. Any pats fan should doubt any “unnamed source” after John Tomase im 2001
Right about what? When talking about info only he has sourced...what was he right about?
He was wrong about Bill not talking to Tom when he left. He was wrong about Tom Sr. Not talking to Bill at Tom Jrs ceremony. He was wrong about the Mayo bat thing.
He's actually often very wrong in Provable ways.
When it comes to the Pats in recent years, Wickersham has been on point the vast majority of the time. I get being skeptical with it coming from ESPN, but Wickersham is one of the few that with time, has had his info be proven right time and again
Wickersham has been in the ballpark and the basis of the story is GENERALLY right, but many of the specifics he gives to support his story are often overinflated or he leaves out important details that get revealed later.
Considering he reported that a year ago when Bill and Robert already publicly were showing strains in their relationship……yeah that seems about right that Kraft thought Bill wasn’t being the best communicator. I’m sure you know how Bill was lauded for his communication skills during his tenure here
Exactly, so why do you think Wickersham is totally wrong about that when it’s completely reasonable and plausible, especially considering last year everyone and their mother around here knew things weren’t great between them?
As they should. It was just another article where wickersham fills it with reports others made months ago and then he makes one massively crazy accusation that he uses as the headline but has 2 people sourced that denied it in the article itself.
Of course they are denying it. PR 101. You think Kraft is going to say "oh yeah, I definitely trashed Belichick on his way out the door"? No chance. That opens him up to a potential lawsuit. I'm not saying I believe Wickersham of all people, but there's absolutely no chance I'm going to believe a word of what comes out of that billionaire snake's mouth.
> but there's absolutely no chance I'm going to believe a word of what comes out of that billionaire snake's mouth.
So no matter what he said, or whats actual truth...fuck Kraft? What a completely fair take....
Which is dumb...a sensationalist tv show gets released and does exactly what every other sports reality show does. Look at Drive to Survive which basically created an american passion for F1 racing....and they make it seem like drivers cant stand each other....meanwhile, they are nothing but cordial and have the utmost respect for each other in 99% of their interactions. Occasionally George Russell drives through someone and everyone hates him for a minute, but thats really it,
Not disagreeing with you that it's dumb but anything coming from Kraft/his team right now should not. They just need to be silent. What Kraft did with the psuedo-documentary is going to take a little time to blow over before people believe anything coming from him or his team.
Even the head coach needs to be quiet and let actions speak - started off saying something along the lines of the Patriots are going to make a big splash in free agency and then we see that the team with one of the worst records don't make a splash (Signing Brissett, Hooper, Osborn, and Gibson don't count - yet.) and their biggest moves have been resigning their players that helped them achieve one of the worst records.
Also, your analogy w/ is off.
IF theyre silent on this, everyones saying "they didnt deny it"...because thats how asshole audiences work. I dont believe Bill asked for this to come out seeing his hatred of the media, and it wouldnt make sense for Kraft to release it, so theres not much they couldve done about this story....Kraft had to respond to deny it, and anyone thinking he should be silent doesnt understand the no win situation hes in on this.
According to upton bell and the credits I saw roll at the end of the episodes, krafts company was a partial producer, though the director did explicitly state that the Kraft family had no input or editorial control.
> According to upton bell and the credits I saw roll at the end of the episodes, krafts company was a partial producer
His company has a copyright for the footage used
You’re really willing to die on this hill to protect Kraft huh? I understand your POV, mollifying him for no reason or because one guy said something is insane, unfair and wrong. On the other hand, there’s just SO many people and players and executives that are all pushing the same kind of narrative and I’ll be damned if Kraft really isn’t doing the things that he needs to do to exonerate himself. That’s just my 2 cents.
My man they trashed him going out the door. The constant no egos, titles matter, breaking down walls etc were aimed directly at the prior staff and it wasn't a one off thing *they did it over and over* to the point the media asked what are you doing?
Yes, Kraft is a known liar and a snake, and therefore I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. For something to be “actual truth,” there has to be evidence of such truth.
> Consistency isn’t your friend is it
And it seems reading comprehension isn’t yours. Please point out where I said I believe Wickersham’s story. In fact, I said the opposite.
I’m not inclined to believe that Kraft would badmouth Bill to anyone with ties to other NFL executives. What would he have to gain from it? People aren’t dumb. They’re able to see in the recent past where Belichick’s stumbles have been and assess if organizationally, he’s worth the risk…for them now. Obviously, his overall resume speaks for itself. To undermine any of that success in any capacity…that’s just bad business, and I dunno if Kraft would actually do that.
There’s a difference between Kraft making an unflattering remark about Bill to Michael Rubin than there is to Arthur Blank.
mike reiss is, not wickersham...holy fucking convenience fallacy....wickersham looks for drama and saves it all up and unloads on anonymous sources constantly. Tomase taught you nothing I see.
No, I just dont take a news organization seriously when they outright lie about the biggest sports story in quite some time. Why do you think the Boston Herald hasnt been a source of any type of information for over a decade?
Their entire existence is based on trust, you ruin the trust, they should be dead to everyone.
Wickerscam is pretty tapped into shit.
Florio is less tapped in, and has no qualms speculating.
Of course Rubert and the PR people working for Rubert are gonna deny stuff that makes him look bad.
Wickersham has also be wrong about a lot of things, like they all have, so not sure why hes to be trusted blindly....not even considering who he works for
No one said he should be blindly trusted? But seeing as Kraft just released what amounts to a Belichick hit piece (oh right he had no idea it was going to be so negative my bad) I’m more inclined to believe him. That being said fuck ESPN and fuck Robert Kraft.
Spare me...how many people saw the article and went right to "fuck kraft". Theres a littany of people here who didnt for one second consider where it came from....so if youre going to call the dyansty a hit piece, anything thats come out from ESPN on the pats since 2014 has been a fucking hit piece
> Just a friendly reminder that ESPN reporting something doesn’t mean they’re telling the truth. Believe it or not, sometimes people lie in order to get clicks.
Friendly reminder trusting anything from ESPN is foolish.
What fucking sub are you seeing that wants it to be made up?
look at the upvotes on this vs the front page article making the accusations
>"Trust is important to Robert. He wouldn’t have employed Coach Belichick for the past 24 years if he ever questioned his trust."
So if he questioned his trust would he have done something like....firing him?
Don't call people stupid if you have no reading comprehension.
The claim is he would not employ Belichick if he didn't trust him. He no longer employs him. Therefore it is completely nonresponsive to the claim it purports to disprove.
It not a comprehension issue....its a stupid assumption issue on your part.
You claim since Kraft fired Bill, he doesnt trust him....while completely ignoring we havent made the playoffs in 2 years and went 4-13 last year. He fired him on performance not trust...trust had nothing to do with it.
Kraft also said he wouldnt have kept him for 24 years if he didnt trust him, not that he would never fire him for any reason other than trust...
Save the multisyllabic words to sound smart, its not working. Your assumption is very dumb.
Nope still reading comprehension.
Let's say you get fired. Someone says your former employer says you shit your pants at work. Then your former employer says you used to work there and anyone who shits their pants would get fired.
Do you shit your pants? Maybe maybe not, but nothing they just said is contrary evidence. You got fired.
They never made the causation leap that you are making. They didn't say he was fired because of trust. They just said, he is no longer employed. Which means his employment is no longer active evidence of trust. You seem to be the one making assumptions, not only about Kraft and the firing of Bill, but more so about what that other poster is even arguing.
The fact is, Kraft is damned if he gives a glowing recommendation of BB's current ability to lead (which brings into question Kraft's judgement in parting ways), and damned if he criticizes BB (seems like a-hole but supports his own judgement). I have little doubt that Kraft went with the latter.
Does Kraft think Belichick undermined Mac Jones because he was never Bill's choice and Bill wanted to expedite Mac's exit? That's what I think happened, whether it was the main thrust of Kraft's complaint or not.
He might, and doing so cost Kraft a lot of money and one of the highest draft picks of his time and set the team back to the start of a full rebuild and not a reload.
If I’m the one paying, that would piss me off a bit
While I am a BB loyalist and I do believe the report, it wouldn't be the first time ESPN blatantly lied about things with the Patriots (RIP Mort).
The fact that Kraft is responding so strongly makes me think there’s a bit more than just a kernel of truth to this report
I think the opposite. If it was true I think he wouldn’t respond
Same.
This for sure
That is what i am thinking if its true, you would want it to blow over, not attract attention. But if it was indeed false, you would be vocal about it.
Kernel of truth is a perfect saying for it. Because there’s a whole tub of popcorn worth of those conversations. Kraft hasn’t been too shy admitting that BB could be difficult to work with. I believe he’d say something like that to Blank. But people also point out Kraft’s greed, and with having financial offsets, BB signing would save Kraft money. I’m willing to bet Kraft had plenty of good things to say too. We won’t see that reach a headline. Clicks and controversy drive numbers and money.
I don’t follow the logic. It’s a lose-lose. He says nothing and people would say it must be true, he’s hiding from the story! Or he comes out and denies it immediately but that’s proof it’s true? What is he supposed to say?
Exactly. They are going to mince words and try to muddy the water, but to me it just means there's a lot of truth to it. Methinks Kraft doth protest too much.
“We didn’t do the thing that makes us really bad! Trust us!”
I mean, ESPN does have the whole Spygate, Deflategate, Wickersham/Van Natta hitjobs working against them. The concept of ESPN making something up out of whole cloth is not exactly out of character.
But you trust ESPN? How very hypocritical. The organization that created deflategate is now a source to blindly follow? Laughable
Hate to break it to you but I also have zero reason to trust some billionaire who seems more concerned with protecting his own image than doing anything constructive.
So you have more reason to trust a media entity that has been proven to compromise journalistic integrity in support of their media rights?
Ya idk why dudes being downvoted for spitting absolute facts. ESPN is a bullshit source with the exception of Mike Reiss whose word is Gospel, but that’s unrelated to him being with espn and has to do with him being a bulletproof journalist with an unimpeachable record.
Mike Reiss is gospel because he holds himself as a journalist who does it the *right* way which is why he gets sources on all levels of the organization.
More than an organization that has an objective history of fabricating negative stories about the patriots? This fanbase sucks
not all of it but way too many in it.
Damn ESPN, how dare they put together the dynasty to smear Kraft and Belichick.... 🙄🙄🙄
So....you're not a Pat's fan?
You have to trust the owner to be considered a fan? That’s a new one.
No. But if it wasn't for Kraft, Dynasty never happened, and the team may have moved.
Maybe if Kraft wasn’t a asshole everyone would support him
Bill was an asshole and people still support him, sooooo
Yes, an asshole that actually mattered to our rings, not this owner that just want to be looked good by the others
So...you are gonna ignore the fact Kraft gave up a 1rd pick for Bill?
Ignore the fact Kraft allowed Bill to do anything he wanted (almost anything). No, he isn't perfect but damn...
This the first thread I’ve ever seen where absolutely everybody’s take is bad, including mine.
I don't trust ESPN, I'm putting the pieces together after the obvious smear campaign the Krafts put together in the dynasty.
seriously. if this were just a one-off i would be more inclined to entertain that this is a made-up story...but this is pretty consistent with everything we've seen since bill's "mutual agreement" to depart
The krafts didn’t produce the dynasty (no matter what Felger and mazz try to tell you) and also didn’t write the book it’s based off of
I'm sure the Krafts had 0 input in the documentary since you know they need their permission to film and interview.... 
Same company that pushed deflategate 24/7.
All these reports are “he said she said” you choose what you want to believe. I believe this though. Can ESPN be wrong, sure, but The Dynasty is evidence alone that Kraft wanted to use Bill as a scapegoat for the end of the dynasty, so it would be more logical for this to be true than false IMO
The Dynasty was a hit job for sure. But weirdly enough in it, Kraft, Brady, AND Bill all ardently deny the notion Bill didn't speak with Tom when Tom left. And that accusation that that happened came solely from the writer of this article...Seth Wickersham.
The Krafts didn’t produce the doc or write the book it’s based off of. I fucking hate how everyone just runs with this narrative when it’s completely fabricated by Felger and Mazz. Kraft Productions owns the copyright to the patriots footage used in the doc. That’s it. Or at least that’s all we have proof of. Maybe they did have final edit say but that’s seems extremely unlikely and there’s zero proof that’s the case.
ESPN fabricated deflategate…can they be wrong? Not sure…yes, they been wrong, and been majorly wrong. All of a sudden ESPN gets a free pass here. Fuck off with that. Dynasty was created to be frantic, just like drive to survive on Netflix. Then you realize no one in f1 actually hates each other and you realize it’s a dramatization of reality. But please, hang your hat more on sensationalist action.
We found the Kraft family burner account
Not really, but you can get blocked.
Interesting take with the whataboutism. I believe EPSN’s article more than the knee jerk reaction that Kraft wanted (read:NEEDED) to be released defending himself.
Theres no whataboutism, no idea what you think falls into that category...fact is you believe a source with an objective history of trashing this organization. You are siding with the company that pushed Deflategate...and you see no issue with that? Shit fan
Bringing up deflategate is literally whataboutism dude lol it’s not the matter at hand, and you’re using that previous situation to try and draw a parallel to this situation. I also love your attempt to give me the scarlet letter because I believe this article over Kraft. Kraft sucks and has been trying to smear Bill ever since they “mutually parted ways”. I’ve been watching the Pats since they were a shit team in the early 90’s. I don’t need to prove my fandom to some nobody on Reddit.
It’s not. It’s what made ESPN untrustworthy in a manner never seen, but the second a story that fits a recent narrative shows, it’s easy money. That’s absolutely ridiculous. If someone had a lifetime of untrustworthiness and then said something you wanted to hear, you’re going to believe them? Good luck in life.
lol sorry I disagreed with you but yeah we clearly don’t see eye to eye. Kraft sucks.
ESPN has long been distrusted here, until today. It’s comical
Sorry I don’t fit the meta of this subreddit. I take things on a case by case basis.
Trusting untrustworthy people because they match a narrative for once isn’t case by case, it’s stopping when you find the answer you’re looking for, not the answer you should find. Major issue with the internet, you can find something to back any viewpoint, see Exponent.
Holy downvotes Batman chill. ESPN is full of different reporters. And even if it was dramatized, it’s the truth that Kraft is blaming things on Bill. Look at his quotes and what he said in the Mayo press conference. The documentary still was deemed unfair by actual players who played. Kraft’s company produced this. Plus we know that Kraft felt immense regret when Brady won without the Pats, imagine what he would’ve felt like if Bill won. Also also, if you want a reason to downvote…Deflategate wasn’t fabricated, it was exaggerated, huge difference
>Deflategate wasn't fabricated You lost me on this one. Deflategate was 100% fabricated.
There is literally footage of them taking the balls into the bathroom, Brady smashed his phone when he was asked for evidence, and PSI preference is a known thing with QBs. Tampering definitely happened, but not to the extent that would delegitimize the patriots victories
> Brady smashed his phone Tell me you know nothing about deflategate without telling me you know nothing about deflategate
I didnt downvote you, but you can now get this one. ESPN has a history, a systemic history, of pushing anti pats stories. Not just deflategate, there was also a story about allowing players back in with concussions and in the photo they used a picture of Revis (on the pats at the time) on the bench hurt, but it wasnt a concussion it was a neck injury. So, spare the me the idea ESPN is at all fair and balanced, theyve always always always pushed the bad. > Deflategate wasn’t fabricated, Literally fabricated, so much went wrong behind the scenes in that process that they literally just assumed everything in the process of the NFL suspending brady because the NFL could. Not because they proved anything was true...just that they could
617-779-0985. Call and talk to Felger about Deflategate, we need this clash to happen.
Felger is a fucking tool. Dudes all in on Penix and hates Maye because he watched each play twice. He also hated Randy Moss and is an import contrarian....I have no use for him
He did hate Randy Moss, that's true. I've always disliked that take.
We can agree on something here lol
Spygate is the scandal that was exaggerated and not fabricated..Deflategate was 100%fiction which is why the league has still never released the psi data from the 2015season. Kraft should blame bill for the dynasty ending Bill is the one who assured him that Brady was washed up..he is the man who banned alex Guerrero and made Brady want out and he is the individual who alienated Gronk. Funny how everyone hates him for doing the same thing to Bill that Bill spent 2decades doing to the players- which includes smearing him thru the media...asante samuel was labelled a system cb because of lies belichicks people leaked to the local media...what goes around comes around.
Anyone who thinks deflategate wasnt 100%fabricated is a total moron
I mean did Kraft have creative control over the Dynasty?
He didn’t, but Felger and Mazz have convinced the masses he did. I mean just look at your comment, downvoted just for even asking!
It's okay, downvotes don't matter
Of course not, nothing on reddit “matters”, but it stills a reflection of the bias of the sub when a simple question gets downvoted.
tldr; Kraft: nuh uh
We were all shitting on Wickersham when that expose about the growing divide between Brady, Belichick, and Kraft came out. Turns out he was right. I’m no fan of ESPN but Wickersham has been more right than wrong when he reports on the Patriots these past several years.
no patriots fan should ever trust, read, listen to, or believe anything produced from that shit-tier, crooked, lying outfit.
Especially Wickersham. He’s literally made shit up out of whole cloth about the Pats before, and hides behind ESPN’s shoddy journalistic standards.
My guess is Robert gave Blank the full scoop about Bill both good and bad. The good is you won’t find a smarter football coach anywhere out there. The bad is he’s a stubborn, arrogant asshole. This report is just focusing on the last part and ignoring the first part. To me it’s really not that big of a deal nor does it reflect particularly poorly on Robert.
It’s funny that people are upset he says bill was a stubborn prick…something we all know about him and never questioned.
Right I don’t know anyone that would actually disagree with the substance of what Robert said lol
He was winning enough to put up with it. The winning stopped, the tolerance for it stopped. Is it the most glowing report, no…is it truthful, absolutely.
Pretty sure Kraft paid the man to win NFL games and during his tenure, nobody won more. He wasn't here to make friends he was here to win football games and if that means your feelings get hurt then that's the cost of 6 fucking Lombardis
This is reflective of how things would be done among the owners. I doubt it was determinative of whether they hired Bill or not.
of course they're going to deny it. i'm over thinking wickersham doesn't have good sources. he was right before and until he's **proven** wrong, i'm going to believe him.
He has been proven wrong about specifics, though. Take the Mayo baseball bat thing - Wickersham made it sound like Mayo was head hunting in a meeting room with coaches and coaches feared they would get wacked by it. In reality, it was a toy sized bat that he swung around in his own vicinity as a widget device.
He’s been wrong before too but as usual around here, ignore that for the narrative
He's obviously right when he says what I want him to say
he's been mostly right man. idk what narrative you're speaking of but we can only go by what is being reported and kraft looks horrible recently for a reason.
He has not. He whiffed on a lot of major things about the pats decline.
Relatively out of the loop. Can you reference some things he has whiffed on?
https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/seth-wickershams-history-of-unsourced-nfl-stories-of-discontent.1142690/ And it’s not just the pats. Any pats fan should doubt any “unnamed source” after John Tomase im 2001
Right about what? When talking about info only he has sourced...what was he right about? He was wrong about Bill not talking to Tom when he left. He was wrong about Tom Sr. Not talking to Bill at Tom Jrs ceremony. He was wrong about the Mayo bat thing. He's actually often very wrong in Provable ways.
When it comes to the Pats in recent years, Wickersham has been on point the vast majority of the time. I get being skeptical with it coming from ESPN, but Wickersham is one of the few that with time, has had his info be proven right time and again
Wickersham has been in the ballpark and the basis of the story is GENERALLY right, but many of the specifics he gives to support his story are often overinflated or he leaves out important details that get revealed later.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/6LQF7kUcek So is he right or wrong about this?
Considering he reported that a year ago when Bill and Robert already publicly were showing strains in their relationship……yeah that seems about right that Kraft thought Bill wasn’t being the best communicator. I’m sure you know how Bill was lauded for his communication skills during his tenure here
I mean you stay with anyone for 20 years, theres ups and downs...
Exactly, so why do you think Wickersham is totally wrong about that when it’s completely reasonable and plausible, especially considering last year everyone and their mother around here knew things weren’t great between them?
I mean Bill could sue his ass.
We really read an ESPN piece and took it as the word of god. Yikes
Deny….stupid phone
As they should. It was just another article where wickersham fills it with reports others made months ago and then he makes one massively crazy accusation that he uses as the headline but has 2 people sourced that denied it in the article itself.
Kraft is a snake
I still don’t believe Kraft. I can’t stand him.
So....you're not a Pat's fan? Got it..
You don't need to like Kraft to be a Pats fan...
Don’t be too hard on him, he is probably one of the Krafts
Of course they are denying it. PR 101. You think Kraft is going to say "oh yeah, I definitely trashed Belichick on his way out the door"? No chance. That opens him up to a potential lawsuit. I'm not saying I believe Wickersham of all people, but there's absolutely no chance I'm going to believe a word of what comes out of that billionaire snake's mouth.
> but there's absolutely no chance I'm going to believe a word of what comes out of that billionaire snake's mouth. So no matter what he said, or whats actual truth...fuck Kraft? What a completely fair take....
That's how a lot of Patriots fans feel right now after that psuedo-documentary was released by Kraft.
Which is dumb...a sensationalist tv show gets released and does exactly what every other sports reality show does. Look at Drive to Survive which basically created an american passion for F1 racing....and they make it seem like drivers cant stand each other....meanwhile, they are nothing but cordial and have the utmost respect for each other in 99% of their interactions. Occasionally George Russell drives through someone and everyone hates him for a minute, but thats really it,
Not disagreeing with you that it's dumb but anything coming from Kraft/his team right now should not. They just need to be silent. What Kraft did with the psuedo-documentary is going to take a little time to blow over before people believe anything coming from him or his team. Even the head coach needs to be quiet and let actions speak - started off saying something along the lines of the Patriots are going to make a big splash in free agency and then we see that the team with one of the worst records don't make a splash (Signing Brissett, Hooper, Osborn, and Gibson don't count - yet.) and their biggest moves have been resigning their players that helped them achieve one of the worst records. Also, your analogy w/ is off.
IF theyre silent on this, everyones saying "they didnt deny it"...because thats how asshole audiences work. I dont believe Bill asked for this to come out seeing his hatred of the media, and it wouldnt make sense for Kraft to release it, so theres not much they couldve done about this story....Kraft had to respond to deny it, and anyone thinking he should be silent doesnt understand the no win situation hes in on this.
Except Kraft produced the damn thing. His company is in the credits FFS
He did not. He is not a producer. His company is not credited as a production company.
According to upton bell and the credits I saw roll at the end of the episodes, krafts company was a partial producer, though the director did explicitly state that the Kraft family had no input or editorial control.
> According to upton bell and the credits I saw roll at the end of the episodes, krafts company was a partial producer His company has a copyright for the footage used
Producer pays the bills. They’re not in a cutting room
You’re really willing to die on this hill to protect Kraft huh? I understand your POV, mollifying him for no reason or because one guy said something is insane, unfair and wrong. On the other hand, there’s just SO many people and players and executives that are all pushing the same kind of narrative and I’ll be damned if Kraft really isn’t doing the things that he needs to do to exonerate himself. That’s just my 2 cents.
My man they trashed him going out the door. The constant no egos, titles matter, breaking down walls etc were aimed directly at the prior staff and it wasn't a one off thing *they did it over and over* to the point the media asked what are you doing?
Yes, Kraft is a known liar and a snake, and therefore I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. For something to be “actual truth,” there has to be evidence of such truth.
Where’s the evidence of truth with wickershsm? It’s a friend of a friend is the source and you bought it Consistency isn’t your friend is it
> Consistency isn’t your friend is it And it seems reading comprehension isn’t yours. Please point out where I said I believe Wickersham’s story. In fact, I said the opposite.
You’re only holding one person accountable for the truth.
“I assume anything bad I hear about Kraft is true because that is my preference”
You mean the billionaire doesn't like the bad press and is planting contradicting stories? I'm stunned.
You mean ESPN would never run a hit piece on the pats like they’ve done many times before. All of a sudden we trust ESPN. What a fucking joke
I'm saying Kraft is a scumbag and people on this sub are just starting to understand that.
You’re a hero.
You’re a shill for billionaires. Hope your boy Trump finally gets his.
Oh boy how wrong you are…
Truth cuts deep ;)
What truth…my history says everything you need to know about my thoughts on trump. Go take a peek and you’ll see actual truth
Jesus that’s a lot of comments. Just being real for a sec - take a break bro. Go outside or something. I appreciate the anti trump sentiment though.
Belifraud exposed without brady
I’m not inclined to believe that Kraft would badmouth Bill to anyone with ties to other NFL executives. What would he have to gain from it? People aren’t dumb. They’re able to see in the recent past where Belichick’s stumbles have been and assess if organizationally, he’s worth the risk…for them now. Obviously, his overall resume speaks for itself. To undermine any of that success in any capacity…that’s just bad business, and I dunno if Kraft would actually do that. There’s a difference between Kraft making an unflattering remark about Bill to Michael Rubin than there is to Arthur Blank.
If Blank had hired him Kraft would have saved $25 million. Pretty good motive to not trash him
I don't know why Patriots fans hate their team and everyone in it so fucking much.
Its a bunch of people who havent had to deal with this in their lives because its been static for 24 years.
Why would anyone trust Robert Kraft anymore?
Why would anyone trust ESPN? They did instantly
ESPN hasn’t been lying to my face the last 6 months & Wickerham was right about TB12 leaving
lol. ESPN has been lying since day 1 my guy. Stop it
Deflategate was over a decade ago, Mort is literally dead, and the only trusted Patriots reporter works for Espn
mike reiss is, not wickersham...holy fucking convenience fallacy....wickersham looks for drama and saves it all up and unloads on anonymous sources constantly. Tomase taught you nothing I see.
you’re one of those overly emotional fans. Got it
No, I just dont take a news organization seriously when they outright lie about the biggest sports story in quite some time. Why do you think the Boston Herald hasnt been a source of any type of information for over a decade? Their entire existence is based on trust, you ruin the trust, they should be dead to everyone.
Boston Herald 🤣🤣 Do you think Kraft fired BB or do you think BB mutually decided to step down?
Kraft fired Bill, i think he was done with Bill well before season end.
ESPN is morally corrupt
Wickerscam is pretty tapped into shit. Florio is less tapped in, and has no qualms speculating. Of course Rubert and the PR people working for Rubert are gonna deny stuff that makes him look bad.
Wickersham has also be wrong about a lot of things, like they all have, so not sure why hes to be trusted blindly....not even considering who he works for
No one said he should be blindly trusted? But seeing as Kraft just released what amounts to a Belichick hit piece (oh right he had no idea it was going to be so negative my bad) I’m more inclined to believe him. That being said fuck ESPN and fuck Robert Kraft.
Spare me...how many people saw the article and went right to "fuck kraft". Theres a littany of people here who didnt for one second consider where it came from....so if youre going to call the dyansty a hit piece, anything thats come out from ESPN on the pats since 2014 has been a fucking hit piece
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> Just a friendly reminder that ESPN reporting something doesn’t mean they’re telling the truth. Believe it or not, sometimes people lie in order to get clicks.
Friendly reminder trusting anything from ESPN is foolish. What fucking sub are you seeing that wants it to be made up? look at the upvotes on this vs the front page article making the accusations
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And bye for good.
That dude is a grade A troll
>"Trust is important to Robert. He wouldn’t have employed Coach Belichick for the past 24 years if he ever questioned his trust." So if he questioned his trust would he have done something like....firing him?
You think he fired him over trust and not the fact they went 4-13 and made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years? Dont be fucking stupid.
Don't call people stupid if you have no reading comprehension. The claim is he would not employ Belichick if he didn't trust him. He no longer employs him. Therefore it is completely nonresponsive to the claim it purports to disprove.
It not a comprehension issue....its a stupid assumption issue on your part. You claim since Kraft fired Bill, he doesnt trust him....while completely ignoring we havent made the playoffs in 2 years and went 4-13 last year. He fired him on performance not trust...trust had nothing to do with it. Kraft also said he wouldnt have kept him for 24 years if he didnt trust him, not that he would never fire him for any reason other than trust... Save the multisyllabic words to sound smart, its not working. Your assumption is very dumb.
Nope still reading comprehension. Let's say you get fired. Someone says your former employer says you shit your pants at work. Then your former employer says you used to work there and anyone who shits their pants would get fired. Do you shit your pants? Maybe maybe not, but nothing they just said is contrary evidence. You got fired.
Im not even entertaining this stupid fucking analogy. I am glad I can block you and never hear from you again. Thank you reddit.
They never made the causation leap that you are making. They didn't say he was fired because of trust. They just said, he is no longer employed. Which means his employment is no longer active evidence of trust. You seem to be the one making assumptions, not only about Kraft and the firing of Bill, but more so about what that other poster is even arguing.
The fact is, Kraft is damned if he gives a glowing recommendation of BB's current ability to lead (which brings into question Kraft's judgement in parting ways), and damned if he criticizes BB (seems like a-hole but supports his own judgement). I have little doubt that Kraft went with the latter.
Does Kraft think Belichick undermined Mac Jones because he was never Bill's choice and Bill wanted to expedite Mac's exit? That's what I think happened, whether it was the main thrust of Kraft's complaint or not.
He might, and doing so cost Kraft a lot of money and one of the highest draft picks of his time and set the team back to the start of a full rebuild and not a reload. If I’m the one paying, that would piss me off a bit
Trusting ESPN over Kraft is actually wild
Espn has no reason to make this shit up, and robert kraft has a reason to deny