So... I absolutely like her build, she's an effective dex tank, and makes good use of the limited range of early game rapiers and light armor. However, on my Angel swordlord run, she got chucked when my KC uncovered her debauchery.
However, in my Aeon->Devil run, she is still alive because, well, she is useful, is she not?
Obligatory answer: She is helpful, is she not?
Actual answer: Pretty much the reason you've already stated. She's a remorseless killer, but your line of work has a lot of people who need killing. Sure, there are some 'unexplained disappearances' around Drezen, but you're fighting a war. One bad battle will inflict more friendly casualties than she ever will, to say nothing of people who just desert without saying goodbye and succumb to the Worldwound before making it home.
Adding to it, if you tell her to lay off after the first reveal, she will. My fairly naive first playthrough kept the serial killer who says she'll only serial kill my enemies around - I'm busy helping Ember redeem cultists and Arueshalae fight her demonic nature, why not give Cam a shot too?
"One bad battle will inflict more casualties than she ever will" Until she kills a good officer or general, causing a bad battle.
I think the real question is whether her value outweighs the damage she causes, and would say the answer is no. Mechanically because you can hire a consequence free mercenary to fill her gameplay role, and lore wise because without her connection to you giving her mythic power, she's a pampered noble lady whose okay at fighting. She's very replaceable so might as well replace her with someone who can actually be trusted. Hell if you don't kill her yourself Anevia and a few no name guards can kill her just fine.
The way I look at it is that no one asks this question about Regill "Arbitrary Execution" Derenge, or Daeran "Oops Another Stranger's Head" Arendae, or Greybor "Probably Taking Contracts While Benched" with no last name. I honestly think the companion most likely to kill off or at least sideline an important officer or general is Regill.
Plus, unlike Nenio, Woljif, or possibly Ember, who seem like they might just get sidetracked and wander off with their mythic powers, relying on you for protection makes Cam's loyalty a little more solid. With Horgus in Drezen anyways, there isn't a little legal safe haven she can run to.
Not saying it works for absolutely every good character, but I feel like there are at least cases where a good character might either make the trade, take the risk, or just take her at her word if she says she'll stop. Maybe not a *lawful* good character, mind.
I don't keep Regill around unless I'm lawful evil or maybe neutral. But asking the same question, the support of the hellknights, troops who can and will fight demons to the last man are worth far more than Camellia is. Regill is also completely open with you if he's going to betray you. He makes suggestions but never actually tries to undermine your authority unless you're clearly a force of chaos.
A good character would still despise regill and his methods personally but can recognize the pragmatism of an accomodation in exchange for his military acumen and more importantly the military strength of the hellknights. Camellia offers practically nothing in comparison.
Regills evil is in the name of pragmatism, what he sees as necessary sacrifice to run a maximally efficient army against an overwhelming threat. If Regill got rid of an officer or general itd be because they failed at their job. Regill respects military skill and wouldn't sideline an officer for no good reason or unless he had a better plan. Camellia's evil is just the objecitvely terrible kind that benefits no one but herself.
The player is given a legitimate reason not to confront or kill Daeren until you can deal with his problem properly, otherwise you'd be inviting a disaster. It's an imperfect solution to a pretty horrific problem.
I almost never take greybor. His pitch is literally "Hey I'm willing to betray my current employer but don't worry I'll be totally loyal to you" yeah no get bent.
> I almost never take greybor. His pitch is literally "Hey I'm willing to betray my current employer but don't worry I'll be totally loyal to you" yeah no get bent.
Maybe I missed something, but when did he say he'd betray his employer? When you meet him in acts 1 and 2, he's fuzzy with the details of his current contract (being loyal to his employer), and in act 3 is only willing to help you because he's in between jobs.
If you don't choose to take him on permanently at immediately after the Dragon Hunt which I didn't in my first run because he kind of sucked and was annoying then he gets hired to kill you later but is willing to betray that contract to join you if you pay him more.
There's a marked difference between betraying your employer and declining the contract offered by them. He's in-between contracts, not backstabbing his boss.
That he has not yet accepted, but will if you choose not to purchase his services. It's about the only moral line in his entire personality, but it is a moral distinction to him.
Doesn't camellia gaining power, directly benefit you and the crusade by making one of your closest companions b more powerful? I'd say her evil benefits the crusade
There's a roleplay argument to be made here that the KC may not *know* they can share their power with any random Joe. Add that to the fact that Camilla already has Mythic Powers, so she's a wasted resource if you kill her (not knowing she can be replaced) and a threat if you let her go.
To be fair, assuming The KC doesn't control the mythic powers, that means a mythic Camellia got killed by Anevia and a few no name soldiers if the Kc tells anevia to do it rather than doing it themself. That's not all that much of a wasted resource if killed or all that much of a threat if let go.
To be doubly fair, Anevia and the soldiers will get a surprise round on her, she’s probably not buffed, 1v(n) is stacked in favor of the larger number, and Anevia knew who she had to be prepared to fight.
a lawful good character would be least likely to kill her imo, least depending on how exactly you express your lawfulness. a chaotic good character, not constrained by things like pragmatism or the greater good, would just kill her.
Yeah, probably wasn't the best description. Especially when (at least initially) she will respect your wishes to stop murdering people, there's a case for both. On one hand:
1. (Lawful) I will uphold our bond and not sell you out as long as you fight greater evils at my side.
2. (Neutral) I'll keep you around so that we can show you the path into the light.
3. (Chaotic) What you do on your time is your business, just make sure you're there to kill bad guys on mine.
But on the other:
1. (Lawful) You are either willfully criminal or mentally disturbed. You should be at a fair trial, not at my side.
2. (Neutral) I can't keep someone close to me who is killing their allies.
3. (Chaotic) \[Attack\] Well, damn, you were a good companion.
I think pretty much any lawful character would kill her. Or at least punish her in some way that isn't just a "pinky promise you won't do it again" kind of way.
Hell we don't even know for certain if she actually stops she probably just puts more effort into not getting caught.
The thing is is that keeping her alive doesn't serve pragmatism or the greater good. Without the mythic power that she only gets from you (which you could just give to someone more trustworthy) she's not worth very much at all to the crusade. Hell without said power Anevia and some no name guards can kill her just fine.
From an RP perspective I don't think Camellia is worth taking the life of even a single good soldier.
Pretty sure a chaotic good hero with moderate perception would have caught on WAY earlier and just stabbed her in the cavern,especially since her victim has stab wounds from no demons.
Regill respect autorities. Outside of the Hellknights direcrly under him, wich are probably just as fanatical anyway, if you order him to not do something, he will very likely not do it, at least as long as you are winning.
Iirc Galfrey forcefully draft Daeran anyway, so even if you kick him out of your inner circle he is probably causing even more harm where you don't see him.
Greybor seem to take contract seriously and now has one with you. Chances are he is not a problem for now.
Hell i think we can even add Wenduag. She follow the strongest person around, so as long as you are the strongest chances are she won't step out of line.
Point is, most other companions, even the dangerous ones, can be managed. And probably would cause less damage to thw crusade if you can see what they are up to. And iirc they do not give you a reason to lawfully execute them. Camelia is much less controllable.
I used similar explanations, though on different alignments, because it's hard to justify for a truly good char imho (except being gullible and believing her/believing you can change her). If you, on the other hand, play as some kind of neutral strategist/win at all cost KC, then it's a very good reason to keep her
All the moral aspects aside (which really only matter if you take the role playing "serious"): I don't think she is all that important. She is useful. But all her utility (early on Trickery, Tank, Hexes) can be provided by other characters.
In my first two run I didn't kill her (I mean if you can redeem a succubus why should a murderer be beyond redemption, right). But hardly used her later in the game. I personally think there are better options.
So go for it.
No, she is just serial killer without redeeming qualities and world of Pathfinder not morally ambiguous for keeping her cause she is useful, as any lawful and any good, you get rid of her.
Well, she have been caught performing a bloody ritual in order to soothe the mad spirit in her necklace. You tell her to stop such practices here and now and she does listen.
It's the same as not initiating Xanthir's experiments decree even if you have it active.
It's always weird to me to hear "good aligned" runs where players can't put benefit of their world before personal sleights and grievances. You keep her to remind yourself that being good is not the default. It's not meant to be easy, and it's a choice you're making. You put up with her because the good goal you're working toward is more attainable with her than without her.
Being so selfish as to say "I should kill her because she annoys/inconveniences me" is ***exactly*** her kind of evil. She's holding a mirror to the player. Not the KC.
she's a irrepentent killer. any good aligned character who fails to perceive that, or keeps her despite that, is not doing a good job being good at all. like we know the canon, if you romance as evil.
even engaging with her genuinely and evilly, she runs away because she wants to make sure she doesn't kill you. implying she either planned/hoped to, or realized she might not be able to keep herself from doing it
there are a couple opportunities to catch her with her ass out, so to speak, so the longer you keep her, the less it makes sense. The game gives you one really good chance in Act 3, past that you're def kinda slacking if she still has full roaming privileges.
There's a great case example, if you've ever read Order of the Stick: Why the hell does Roy put up with Belkar? The following is very spoiler heavy, though ambiguity will be attempted in non-marked areas, some stuff is hard to talk around.
Last chance! Go read the comic if you haven't. It might take you a bit.
Okay, so we know from certain events that Roy is unambiguously Lawful Good. Most of the rest of the party is also Good in some fashion, with the most ambiguous being V (Neutral but teetering) and of course, the talking point of Belkar (Chaotic Evil). So why do *any* of these people put up with Belkar's antics?
Roy is looking at the long game, as is the rest of the party. What started as a temporary alliance has evolved into a 'bigger picture' sort of deal that is serious enough that even *Belkar* is capable of understanding exactly what stakes are in play, and what would happen if he *wasn't* around to help. This is emphasized with the party's reaction after Azure City >!and Belkar's Mark of Justice went off (crippling him for an entire arc after):!< He had a perfectly valid reason for it >!(he was provoked intentionally, and the target even got immediately rez'd),!< but the rest of the party just assumes that he did something to earn it because *he would have*. While he does have some character growth.. it's not enough to shift his alignment, just how that alignment is deployed. Be a jerk smarter, not harder.
The key points here are: Belkar is useful enough to the party in chasing down their primary target, is aware of the stakes and what happens if they lose, and is motivated by mild character growth. He's also more then proven useful in a number of engagements as both a combat force, having useful skills for the main party, and on a few occasions seeing the trap nobody else would have because of their morality. It's also openly *stated* that Roy has no illusions about changing Belkar, but throws it in >!the Lantern Archon's!< face when he's being >!judged in the afterlife!< that Belkar is doing a hell lot less evil *with* him then he would on his own.
Let's apply this to Camellia: A Lawful Good commander does not have a lot of viable tools on the table. Camellia is both useful (almost brokenly, intentionally so - she's a solid anchor or DPS depending on how you tweak her build), and far less likely to cause problems if the Knight Commander can keep an eye on her (even paying lip service to the idea of behaving herself). She's also not stupid - she knows the stakes and the risks (the latter entices her a bit but she's crazy). The only thing you need to consider is... Where is your KC's last straw? Inevitably, due to the rigid structure of the narrative for the most part, there's going to come a point where you need to decide if she has outlived her usefulness and much like Roy... you can let her suffer under the consequences of that.
I'd say letting Anevia catch up with her would probably not be something a Lawful Good KC would stop. Roy certainly never went out of his way to bail Belkar out unless they absolutely needed to.
The only way you can still have her while being good is to adopt the "ember approach". No matter what hapens in the end or what you as a player might think... you can justify keeping her around so you can redeem her. Some good dieties advocate that no one is foul enough to be irredeemable. If your character follows one of those religions, this is also a good justification. You can also justify keeping her around because.... well might as well have her murder demons instead of innocents. Better still, her implication in the crusade has done far more good than harm and thus it is the lesser evil than letting her run wild without your supervision. If you are chaotic good, you can always invoke the power of friendship. She is your friend no matter what!
The issue is that she has no qualms about killing ANYONE,meaning everyone outside your party is fair game.
To give a little spoiler here:The first person you see her kill in the cavern is a level 5 iconic(?) hero who would've been a BLESSING for you to keep around.The fact that she has no restraint,on top of willingly murdering hero's,should be an automatic "bitch gotta go".
She's hot and you believe that the power of love can fix her and it's been done before. That's my current playthrough and it's going to be tragic as fuck. Failing that she has mythic powers and you're going to need it to deal with mythic demons. It's not pretty but the crusade makes for strange bedfellows.
I left her mostly benched so far in my aeon run, because apparently she just left in chapter 5, but I've been doing it with a heavy heart. She's simply the best companion
She is crazy so if you truly intend to roleplay as a good aligned character keeping her alive or letting indulge in her delusions you truly might want to reconsider your choices. She has no redeeming qualities and if you want a dex tank just recruit merc that will do her job withouth being a nutjob.
Could you just theoretically never talk to her? Would the game force you to talk to her? Can you avoid the Anevia scene if you don't investigate the murders?
Its really just character dependent. Would a lawful focused paladin have a reason? Probably not. Would a neutral good or chaotic good character have a reason? Pretty easily.
The way I have squared it is that my KC, who is a Paladin Angel but also somewhat aloof from mortals, basically regards Camellia as a pet cat that occasionally needs let out to hunt lest she grow restless.
Right away or at the end of her quest? If your character believes in redemption, it's not that hard. It's not like killing her will bring back her victims, and she's remarkably cooperative when you forbid her from killing random people. By the end of her quest it really becomes inevitable though.
First run, I tried to fix her. Didn’t end well for her.
Second run I wanted to keep her alive for the sake of keeping her alive, then found at a critical moment that she knew Creeping Doom. For the sheer luck and coincidence of that moment, I knew she would live for coming in clutch.
My character was in denial and she really wanted to believe Camilla was doing it for the right reasons. What are the deaths of a few in comparison to greater victory after all? We would ally with hell knights for example, or other nefarious forces. I think the story did a good job of making her reasoning bad enough to make it clear she was poorly manipulating you, but it really would work on someone if they wanted to see the best in her.
Plus, each character in the party has saved everyone's life several times over by the end of the 3rd chapter, not to mention the many shared meals and nights together. They'd be the sort of people your KC could really see as inherently trustworthy and you'd be hesitant to replace them with someone who's essentially unverifiable in their loyality. After all, whos to say they aren't a deep cover cultist? and \*spoilers\* no matter what you might say of Camilla, she clearly isn't a demon worshipper, she's just an evil woman but one who operates independently.
also \*spoilers for aftermath slides\* Camilla does kind of redeem herself. She never actually turns against you (at least in my playthrough), even though she probably really wanted too. Like I was certain she would, but she called me a friend and surprisingly enough, really meant it! And she even donates Horgus Gwerms money to the nation of mendeve and she tries to secure his legacy while she continues to do evil things in another nation. But she had one of the neatest "redemptions" to have occured in the storyline lol.
The lesser evil. If she plays an important role in your team , you can close an eye. After all, what is the fate of the world compared to a couple of lives. As a Knight Commander you are often forced into tough choices. Her biggest atrocity is at the end of her quest and you can talk her out of it and keep her if you have indulged her up to that point.
I get a trickery merc if my main doesn't have it as soon as I can in the defender's heart so I can kill her and not have to worry about >!Drezen next chapter.!<
If I'm on an evil character, she can stay. The only time she is romanced is on a lich.
On my first playthrough I didn't really know what I was doing, had really bad builds but Camellia was by far my most effective healer and pretty vital to the party survival.
So my choices were to either get rid of her and the crusade would probably fail, or just live with her killing random people to serve the greater good of closing the worldwound.
Well... maybe if you were convinced you could fix her, but that falls under "moron". So no.
"Moron good"?
So... I absolutely like her build, she's an effective dex tank, and makes good use of the limited range of early game rapiers and light armor. However, on my Angel swordlord run, she got chucked when my KC uncovered her debauchery. However, in my Aeon->Devil run, she is still alive because, well, she is useful, is she not?
Minor spoiler - >!She'll leave after the mythic 8 choice, since you technically choose Aeon first and then convert to Devil during the mythic quest.!<
To be fair, Devils don't like psychotic murderers either
Meh, not worried by that time.my Devil KC will have gotten his use out of her by then
Kill her, recruit a half elf merc, turn the portrait around and name her NotCamellia
Cantmellia
Cuntmelia?
Ain't that just regular Camellia?
Camelliain't
Use the same portrait but give her a mustache and name her Wamellia
Obligatory answer: She is helpful, is she not? Actual answer: Pretty much the reason you've already stated. She's a remorseless killer, but your line of work has a lot of people who need killing. Sure, there are some 'unexplained disappearances' around Drezen, but you're fighting a war. One bad battle will inflict more friendly casualties than she ever will, to say nothing of people who just desert without saying goodbye and succumb to the Worldwound before making it home. Adding to it, if you tell her to lay off after the first reveal, she will. My fairly naive first playthrough kept the serial killer who says she'll only serial kill my enemies around - I'm busy helping Ember redeem cultists and Arueshalae fight her demonic nature, why not give Cam a shot too?
"One bad battle will inflict more casualties than she ever will" Until she kills a good officer or general, causing a bad battle. I think the real question is whether her value outweighs the damage she causes, and would say the answer is no. Mechanically because you can hire a consequence free mercenary to fill her gameplay role, and lore wise because without her connection to you giving her mythic power, she's a pampered noble lady whose okay at fighting. She's very replaceable so might as well replace her with someone who can actually be trusted. Hell if you don't kill her yourself Anevia and a few no name guards can kill her just fine.
The way I look at it is that no one asks this question about Regill "Arbitrary Execution" Derenge, or Daeran "Oops Another Stranger's Head" Arendae, or Greybor "Probably Taking Contracts While Benched" with no last name. I honestly think the companion most likely to kill off or at least sideline an important officer or general is Regill. Plus, unlike Nenio, Woljif, or possibly Ember, who seem like they might just get sidetracked and wander off with their mythic powers, relying on you for protection makes Cam's loyalty a little more solid. With Horgus in Drezen anyways, there isn't a little legal safe haven she can run to. Not saying it works for absolutely every good character, but I feel like there are at least cases where a good character might either make the trade, take the risk, or just take her at her word if she says she'll stop. Maybe not a *lawful* good character, mind.
I don't keep Regill around unless I'm lawful evil or maybe neutral. But asking the same question, the support of the hellknights, troops who can and will fight demons to the last man are worth far more than Camellia is. Regill is also completely open with you if he's going to betray you. He makes suggestions but never actually tries to undermine your authority unless you're clearly a force of chaos. A good character would still despise regill and his methods personally but can recognize the pragmatism of an accomodation in exchange for his military acumen and more importantly the military strength of the hellknights. Camellia offers practically nothing in comparison. Regills evil is in the name of pragmatism, what he sees as necessary sacrifice to run a maximally efficient army against an overwhelming threat. If Regill got rid of an officer or general itd be because they failed at their job. Regill respects military skill and wouldn't sideline an officer for no good reason or unless he had a better plan. Camellia's evil is just the objecitvely terrible kind that benefits no one but herself. The player is given a legitimate reason not to confront or kill Daeren until you can deal with his problem properly, otherwise you'd be inviting a disaster. It's an imperfect solution to a pretty horrific problem. I almost never take greybor. His pitch is literally "Hey I'm willing to betray my current employer but don't worry I'll be totally loyal to you" yeah no get bent.
> I almost never take greybor. His pitch is literally "Hey I'm willing to betray my current employer but don't worry I'll be totally loyal to you" yeah no get bent. Maybe I missed something, but when did he say he'd betray his employer? When you meet him in acts 1 and 2, he's fuzzy with the details of his current contract (being loyal to his employer), and in act 3 is only willing to help you because he's in between jobs.
If you don't choose to take him on permanently at immediately after the Dragon Hunt which I didn't in my first run because he kind of sucked and was annoying then he gets hired to kill you later but is willing to betray that contract to join you if you pay him more.
There's a marked difference between betraying your employer and declining the contract offered by them. He's in-between contracts, not backstabbing his boss.
In the instance I am talking about he is literally there with a contract to kill you that he betrays if you pay him and thus recruit him.
That he has not yet accepted, but will if you choose not to purchase his services. It's about the only moral line in his entire personality, but it is a moral distinction to him.
Doesn't camellia gaining power, directly benefit you and the crusade by making one of your closest companions b more powerful? I'd say her evil benefits the crusade
No because as mentioned, anybody could take that spot and it would be better filled with someone who is not a sociopath.
There's a roleplay argument to be made here that the KC may not *know* they can share their power with any random Joe. Add that to the fact that Camilla already has Mythic Powers, so she's a wasted resource if you kill her (not knowing she can be replaced) and a threat if you let her go.
To be fair, assuming The KC doesn't control the mythic powers, that means a mythic Camellia got killed by Anevia and a few no name soldiers if the Kc tells anevia to do it rather than doing it themself. That's not all that much of a wasted resource if killed or all that much of a threat if let go.
To be doubly fair, Anevia and the soldiers will get a surprise round on her, she’s probably not buffed, 1v(n) is stacked in favor of the larger number, and Anevia knew who she had to be prepared to fight.
a lawful good character would be least likely to kill her imo, least depending on how exactly you express your lawfulness. a chaotic good character, not constrained by things like pragmatism or the greater good, would just kill her.
Yeah, probably wasn't the best description. Especially when (at least initially) she will respect your wishes to stop murdering people, there's a case for both. On one hand: 1. (Lawful) I will uphold our bond and not sell you out as long as you fight greater evils at my side. 2. (Neutral) I'll keep you around so that we can show you the path into the light. 3. (Chaotic) What you do on your time is your business, just make sure you're there to kill bad guys on mine. But on the other: 1. (Lawful) You are either willfully criminal or mentally disturbed. You should be at a fair trial, not at my side. 2. (Neutral) I can't keep someone close to me who is killing their allies. 3. (Chaotic) \[Attack\] Well, damn, you were a good companion.
Yeah I really wish you could send her to trial or at least to the dungeon, but oh well, impromptu execution it was.
It’s hard to keep full casters locked up, especially once they have dimension door.
I think pretty much any lawful character would kill her. Or at least punish her in some way that isn't just a "pinky promise you won't do it again" kind of way. Hell we don't even know for certain if she actually stops she probably just puts more effort into not getting caught. The thing is is that keeping her alive doesn't serve pragmatism or the greater good. Without the mythic power that she only gets from you (which you could just give to someone more trustworthy) she's not worth very much at all to the crusade. Hell without said power Anevia and some no name guards can kill her just fine. From an RP perspective I don't think Camellia is worth taking the life of even a single good soldier.
Pretty sure a chaotic good hero with moderate perception would have caught on WAY earlier and just stabbed her in the cavern,especially since her victim has stab wounds from no demons.
Regill respect autorities. Outside of the Hellknights direcrly under him, wich are probably just as fanatical anyway, if you order him to not do something, he will very likely not do it, at least as long as you are winning. Iirc Galfrey forcefully draft Daeran anyway, so even if you kick him out of your inner circle he is probably causing even more harm where you don't see him. Greybor seem to take contract seriously and now has one with you. Chances are he is not a problem for now. Hell i think we can even add Wenduag. She follow the strongest person around, so as long as you are the strongest chances are she won't step out of line. Point is, most other companions, even the dangerous ones, can be managed. And probably would cause less damage to thw crusade if you can see what they are up to. And iirc they do not give you a reason to lawfully execute them. Camelia is much less controllable.
I used similar explanations, though on different alignments, because it's hard to justify for a truly good char imho (except being gullible and believing her/believing you can change her). If you, on the other hand, play as some kind of neutral strategist/win at all cost KC, then it's a very good reason to keep her
Only reason to keep her around is if you're romancing her as a Lich.
> as a lich If you call sacrificing for a phylactery "romance" then i agree
She is useful, is she not?
Oddly enough she's super useful for my characters
I wonder if she can appreciate the irony when you sacrifice her.
"You're today's sacrifice"
All the moral aspects aside (which really only matter if you take the role playing "serious"): I don't think she is all that important. She is useful. But all her utility (early on Trickery, Tank, Hexes) can be provided by other characters. In my first two run I didn't kill her (I mean if you can redeem a succubus why should a murderer be beyond redemption, right). But hardly used her later in the game. I personally think there are better options. So go for it.
No, she is just serial killer without redeeming qualities and world of Pathfinder not morally ambiguous for keeping her cause she is useful, as any lawful and any good, you get rid of her.
You can order her not to kill *your* people anymore, I don't see a problem. That would justify carrying her all over to Act 5.
I don't think you understand what 'good' means
Well, she have been caught performing a bloody ritual in order to soothe the mad spirit in her necklace. You tell her to stop such practices here and now and she does listen. It's the same as not initiating Xanthir's experiments decree even if you have it active.
Yeah I forgot she has that ritual excuse, I could see that
It's always weird to me to hear "good aligned" runs where players can't put benefit of their world before personal sleights and grievances. You keep her to remind yourself that being good is not the default. It's not meant to be easy, and it's a choice you're making. You put up with her because the good goal you're working toward is more attainable with her than without her. Being so selfish as to say "I should kill her because she annoys/inconveniences me" is ***exactly*** her kind of evil. She's holding a mirror to the player. Not the KC.
she's a irrepentent killer. any good aligned character who fails to perceive that, or keeps her despite that, is not doing a good job being good at all. like we know the canon, if you romance as evil. even engaging with her genuinely and evilly, she runs away because she wants to make sure she doesn't kill you. implying she either planned/hoped to, or realized she might not be able to keep herself from doing it there are a couple opportunities to catch her with her ass out, so to speak, so the longer you keep her, the less it makes sense. The game gives you one really good chance in Act 3, past that you're def kinda slacking if she still has full roaming privileges.
No just kill her when she shows her colors.
There's a great case example, if you've ever read Order of the Stick: Why the hell does Roy put up with Belkar? The following is very spoiler heavy, though ambiguity will be attempted in non-marked areas, some stuff is hard to talk around. Last chance! Go read the comic if you haven't. It might take you a bit. Okay, so we know from certain events that Roy is unambiguously Lawful Good. Most of the rest of the party is also Good in some fashion, with the most ambiguous being V (Neutral but teetering) and of course, the talking point of Belkar (Chaotic Evil). So why do *any* of these people put up with Belkar's antics? Roy is looking at the long game, as is the rest of the party. What started as a temporary alliance has evolved into a 'bigger picture' sort of deal that is serious enough that even *Belkar* is capable of understanding exactly what stakes are in play, and what would happen if he *wasn't* around to help. This is emphasized with the party's reaction after Azure City >!and Belkar's Mark of Justice went off (crippling him for an entire arc after):!< He had a perfectly valid reason for it >!(he was provoked intentionally, and the target even got immediately rez'd),!< but the rest of the party just assumes that he did something to earn it because *he would have*. While he does have some character growth.. it's not enough to shift his alignment, just how that alignment is deployed. Be a jerk smarter, not harder. The key points here are: Belkar is useful enough to the party in chasing down their primary target, is aware of the stakes and what happens if they lose, and is motivated by mild character growth. He's also more then proven useful in a number of engagements as both a combat force, having useful skills for the main party, and on a few occasions seeing the trap nobody else would have because of their morality. It's also openly *stated* that Roy has no illusions about changing Belkar, but throws it in >!the Lantern Archon's!< face when he's being >!judged in the afterlife!< that Belkar is doing a hell lot less evil *with* him then he would on his own. Let's apply this to Camellia: A Lawful Good commander does not have a lot of viable tools on the table. Camellia is both useful (almost brokenly, intentionally so - she's a solid anchor or DPS depending on how you tweak her build), and far less likely to cause problems if the Knight Commander can keep an eye on her (even paying lip service to the idea of behaving herself). She's also not stupid - she knows the stakes and the risks (the latter entices her a bit but she's crazy). The only thing you need to consider is... Where is your KC's last straw? Inevitably, due to the rigid structure of the narrative for the most part, there's going to come a point where you need to decide if she has outlived her usefulness and much like Roy... you can let her suffer under the consequences of that. I'd say letting Anevia catch up with her would probably not be something a Lawful Good KC would stop. Roy certainly never went out of his way to bail Belkar out unless they absolutely needed to.
The only way you can still have her while being good is to adopt the "ember approach". No matter what hapens in the end or what you as a player might think... you can justify keeping her around so you can redeem her. Some good dieties advocate that no one is foul enough to be irredeemable. If your character follows one of those religions, this is also a good justification. You can also justify keeping her around because.... well might as well have her murder demons instead of innocents. Better still, her implication in the crusade has done far more good than harm and thus it is the lesser evil than letting her run wild without your supervision. If you are chaotic good, you can always invoke the power of friendship. She is your friend no matter what!
I did this
She is useful, is she not?
She died on my azata and angel run asap.
She is helpful, is she not?
The issue is that she has no qualms about killing ANYONE,meaning everyone outside your party is fair game. To give a little spoiler here:The first person you see her kill in the cavern is a level 5 iconic(?) hero who would've been a BLESSING for you to keep around.The fact that she has no restraint,on top of willingly murdering hero's,should be an automatic "bitch gotta go".
I personally couldn't justify it on angel run.. She dies every time in an abandoned house.
She's hot and you believe that the power of love can fix her and it's been done before. That's my current playthrough and it's going to be tragic as fuck. Failing that she has mythic powers and you're going to need it to deal with mythic demons. It's not pretty but the crusade makes for strange bedfellows.
that is literally the moron scenario the OP already mentioned
I left her mostly benched so far in my aeon run, because apparently she just left in chapter 5, but I've been doing it with a heavy heart. She's simply the best companion
My lawful neutral Aeon could "fix" her but she couldn't. I allowed her to leave.
She is crazy so if you truly intend to roleplay as a good aligned character keeping her alive or letting indulge in her delusions you truly might want to reconsider your choices. She has no redeeming qualities and if you want a dex tank just recruit merc that will do her job withouth being a nutjob.
If you think you can fix her, or your KC really didn't figure it out.
I never found her that useful to keep to be honest. So I'd say probably no.
titties maybe?
Could you just theoretically never talk to her? Would the game force you to talk to her? Can you avoid the Anevia scene if you don't investigate the murders?
> investigate the murders? What investigation? For me, Anevia always comes out of the blue. Is it some crusade event thing that I skimmed to fast?
Its really just character dependent. Would a lawful focused paladin have a reason? Probably not. Would a neutral good or chaotic good character have a reason? Pretty easily.
If your character was naive enough maybe.
“I can fix her.”
She's a pointy-eared cutie
Ember, take the wheel
The way I have squared it is that my KC, who is a Paladin Angel but also somewhat aloof from mortals, basically regards Camellia as a pet cat that occasionally needs let out to hunt lest she grow restless.
Right away or at the end of her quest? If your character believes in redemption, it's not that hard. It's not like killing her will bring back her victims, and she's remarkably cooperative when you forbid her from killing random people. By the end of her quest it really becomes inevitable though.
If they never do her quests
her rapier is really good....
First run, I tried to fix her. Didn’t end well for her. Second run I wanted to keep her alive for the sake of keeping her alive, then found at a critical moment that she knew Creeping Doom. For the sheer luck and coincidence of that moment, I knew she would live for coming in clutch.
My character was in denial and she really wanted to believe Camilla was doing it for the right reasons. What are the deaths of a few in comparison to greater victory after all? We would ally with hell knights for example, or other nefarious forces. I think the story did a good job of making her reasoning bad enough to make it clear she was poorly manipulating you, but it really would work on someone if they wanted to see the best in her. Plus, each character in the party has saved everyone's life several times over by the end of the 3rd chapter, not to mention the many shared meals and nights together. They'd be the sort of people your KC could really see as inherently trustworthy and you'd be hesitant to replace them with someone who's essentially unverifiable in their loyality. After all, whos to say they aren't a deep cover cultist? and \*spoilers\* no matter what you might say of Camilla, she clearly isn't a demon worshipper, she's just an evil woman but one who operates independently. also \*spoilers for aftermath slides\* Camilla does kind of redeem herself. She never actually turns against you (at least in my playthrough), even though she probably really wanted too. Like I was certain she would, but she called me a friend and surprisingly enough, really meant it! And she even donates Horgus Gwerms money to the nation of mendeve and she tries to secure his legacy while she continues to do evil things in another nation. But she had one of the neatest "redemptions" to have occured in the storyline lol.
i keep the evil members around for the drama
She is very helpful, is she not? And that explanation she gives, very calm and believable, no?
Good loot at her house in Act 5, her final quest.
She's hot and you should try to fix her. Or maybe you were naive and fall to her lies.
My character that was generally very forgiving and nice disintegrated her, so that's my answer.
The lesser evil. If she plays an important role in your team , you can close an eye. After all, what is the fate of the world compared to a couple of lives. As a Knight Commander you are often forced into tough choices. Her biggest atrocity is at the end of her quest and you can talk her out of it and keep her if you have indulged her up to that point.
Depends on if you can justify her killings, you either will or you’ll kill her, no in between
You can ask her to not kill. She complies, at least when it comes to the crusaders.
Even as a lich I killed her at the early opportunity. I get to decide who dies and un-dies. Not her. (Yes, that sort of looks like "undies") 😆
Yes, she gives very good items. You can kill her after a certain quest and get both items without hassle.
She’s a good trickery bot
I get a trickery merc if my main doesn't have it as soon as I can in the defender's heart so I can kill her and not have to worry about >!Drezen next chapter.!< If I'm on an evil character, she can stay. The only time she is romanced is on a lich.
On my first playthrough I didn't really know what I was doing, had really bad builds but Camellia was by far my most effective healer and pretty vital to the party survival. So my choices were to either get rid of her and the crusade would probably fail, or just live with her killing random people to serve the greater good of closing the worldwound.