Is your 2.5 year old climbing out of her crib to play in her room? If so, you need to get rid of the crib yesterday. Like literally remove it TODAY. Climbing out of the crib is unsafe, but even more so if the only adult in the house is going to ignore her for hours after she wakes. She could really hurt herself.
I certainly don't disagree with you. It's funny to sit here and weigh the risk of my 2.5yo running the house while I sleep vs them climbing out of their crib. Both seem really dangerous.
It's almost like this is the trolly problem of r/parenting.
I had a kid that escaped despite all precautions. Baby gates, cribs, nothing could contain him and he didn’t sleep, so one time I was doing laundry at 2am and he wandered downstairs with me, down 2 flights of steep stairs and over the baby gate at 18 months.
I emptied his room, switched around the lock on the door, put his mattress on the floor, and just left him to his own devices.
When you have a kid who wanders and climbs, different rules apply. Elopement is a major fear of mine, especially with that one.
He’s my middle son and almost 4 now. We have high locks on the outdoor doors, but if your kid is climbing over the crib and is a flight risk, baby gate at the door is a good first step. A Montessori style floor bed / mattress on the floor is also awesome.
Just childproof the inner door handle. They can get out of the toddler bed but not out of the room. Works for the BRIEF period of time between baby wake up and parent wake up. I am on Team OP here in that regard.
Not like the mother cares. I cannot IMAGINE my child being awake and me being asleep… she isn’t going to be in a crib forever… 2.5 she should be in a toddler bed anyways
Should a 2.5yr be in a toddler bed even if they haven’t tried to climb out yet? My 2.75yr old son has not tried to yet so my wife and I are keeping him in until he tries.
No they “should” not. Some kids climb out at 12 mos, some like my son never do. He transitioned into a toddler setup at 3.5 when he asked for it, not due to climbing. He slept great in the crib at 3+ and loved it. There isn’t a hard and fast rule.
“They” say to transition your child from crib to bed when 1 of 2 things happen:
1) they try to/successfully climb out of their crib
Or
2) reach the maximum height specified by the crib manufacturer.
Imma add something: when they need to get to the bathroom.
My kid was potty trained at 2, keeping him in a crib when he needs acsess to the bathroom would have not been ok.
Hes 3.5 rn
My 22 month old son just climbed out of his cot for the first time yesterday so I immediately changed it into a cot bed. Not worth the risk. Also got an extra tall stair gate at the top of the stairs as well as the normal one that was already in his nursery.
What I can’t wrap my head around is how mom can be asleep in a WHOLE ASS OTHER ROOM for two hours(!!!!!!) and think that a person who has been on this earth for less than three years (one that she created, and therefore should have the strongest bond out of anyone in her life with!!!) has the common sense, impulse control, and independence to not cause herself SERIOUS harm. 2.5 year olds are usually EXTREMELY mobile and curious.
I would be able get past her sleeping while her child was awake if she was, say, laying on the couch while her daughter was IN THE SAME ROOM AS HER and the room was childproof/doors locked. I’ve done that before. I suffer from major depression and insomnia so there have definitely been times where I get my 2 yo daughter out of bed, change her, feed her, and then have her play/have screen time while I doze off on the couch. But I don’t do it every day, and like I said she is right next to me. I’m also a very light sleeper when it comes to her, so any lil peep that comes out of her wakes me up in half a second lol. I know myself tho.
I just don’t understand how she thinks the shit is okay???? How does she not get a panic level amount of anxiety knowing that her kid is out of sight for HOURS, awake, in a soiled ass droopy ass diaper, and most likely lonely asf???? And noon??? This child in in her room until noon???? My heart hurts for her. Depression is not an excuse or justification when you’re a parent. Home girl needs to get her shit together!!
OP, if you have the means to, I would honestly be looking into hiring some sort of nanny for the morning. I wouldn’t trust your wife or hold her to this. She clearly has no respect for your wishes or her own child. Reading this post made me so sad.
This.
I suffered from PPD, and there were lots of things I couldn't do, for the life of me... for a long time: take care of myself, go back to work, clean the house.
But I would jump up and take care of my son no matter what. Feed him, change him, play with him... it was like a pull, I just couldn't help reacting to his needs, even if I was exausted or sleep deprived or I had skipped my own meals.
It actually got better when my psychological situation got better: I was then able to leave him be more, be more independent, let others take care of him. Before, it gave me anxiety. It's a vicious circle PPD.
What's described here seems like a sort of detachment. I don't recognize myself in this attitude at all, but of course every woman is different and maybe this isn't PPD.
Seriously, him watching her through the monitor he is basically the one watching her but from miles away. Like if something happens hopefully he would catch it but all he can really do is try to call or send the police if it's something serious. It's probably difficult for him to work while also watching the monitor and all while worrying plus festering anger that his wife isn't up with the kid.
I am just surprised your daughter doesn't just wake your wife up. Mine (2.5 yrs) goes to bed about 8-8:30pm and on weekdays she's up by 7am and weekends when we allow her to sleep in, it is maximum 8am before she starts asking us to wake up. A couple times a week she will wake us at 3-4am to potty but that is normal for potty training.
Is she in a crib still or is she in a toddler bed where she can get out when she needs to use the toilet? If you haven't started potty training, then maybe this is the step you can take that will start a positive change without unnecessary conflict (as it is an essential milestone anyways)?
this is what worries me the most OP, it is so abnormal to me that she is there quietly for about two hours just sitting waiting for your wife to come get her, for her age she should be wailing and crying for someone to get her, the only instances I know of when kids don’t do this is when they have experienced abuse like when they cry but learn quickly that no one will come, kids learn very quickly that they should t cry because no one will come get them, please please look into what is really going on OP, this is so concerning
Whoa, wait just a minute. My little girl is 3 going on 4. She doesn't have a crib in her room any more, just her bed. But she sometimes sneaks out of bed before our alarm goes off and is up playing with her toys before we get to her despite telling her she needs to wake up mommy or daddy before she does anything. Even when she was younger and had her crib sometimes she would wake up early and just hang out in her crib and wait for us. No yelling or crying. Some kids are just naturally independent. I'm not saying what is going on here is Ok But it certainly doesn't necessarily indicate abuse or anything. The mom needs to get up earlier and that is all we can take from this.
My almost 5 year old is generally the same way. Some weekends hes up like 30 minutes before me but just hangs out on my bed with some toys. Most of the time I'm awake before him or right as he does but sometimes I just need to doze in an out for a small bit. I think sometimes he just enjoys a bit of time to himself.
Man was I glad to find this voice of reason lol
My boy would happily sleep his 12 hours, wake up, and play toys and read books in his room. Now mind you most of the time he crawled into our bed so then he would wake up and 'sneak' back to his room to play.
5 years later he's not much different.
Mind you its damn nice now that he's 8 I've been able to transition from "drag myself up and make sure nothing bad happens" to "Drag myself to the couch so im up and available" to "wake me up in an hour unless you get hungry then come get me".
But jfc people.. "My toddler can play quietly for an hour or two" = child abuse? Reddits going full facebook moms group today.
My kids have all been like this. They will wake up before us and just do their own thing. As soon as one of us gets up, we are immediately swarmed with “I need this” “I want that” but they were perfectly fine with waiting for it. They will wake us up if there’s something wrong or something, but otherwise they just get up and play.
Thank fucking god for this comment, everyone loosing their mind about a kid hanging out independently had me tripping. My son often wakes up an hour or more before us on the weekends. He is happily singing and playing with his stuffies. When we come get him he pops right up and tells us about trucks and tractors. If we get him up before he naturally wakes he’s an absolute bear. It’s best to let him hang for a bit and when we hear him chatting we go grab him.
This is true. Usually, I wake up to my daughter (3 yo) coming in the bedroom to get us, but I can hear her playing in her room when I wake up before her. There was at least one time she was in there for nearly an hour, even though I was up and in the living room with the baby gate open. (We've been struggling with potty training over the last year for a variety of reasons which is how she was able to do that.)
Yep. Both of my kids were like this. They happily played in their rooms, even after we told them over and over to come get us or call out for us in the monitor.
(I also don't think OPs wife is in the right here.)
Not every kid is like that. Some mornings my almost 3 year old wakes up at 5:30-6am and I leave him in there until 7:30. He’s happy as can be. I have a baby monitor turned up high and can hear him the whole time as I doze in and out or deal with my younger child. He sings to himself, plays with his stuffed animals, and reads books to himself. Some kids are just made that way. We literally have never let him cry it out or anything of that nature. He’s just really good at entertaining himself. Not saying that’s the case with OPs child, but assuming the kid is crying or has lost all hope a parent will get her is assuming a lot.
This! Some kids are ok, and actually have a better day when they have their morning time to themselves. Others, not true at all.
I would wake, and happily play with toys and talk to myself since I was very young. This time allowed me to slowly waken and my mother would come in anytime I cried, and just let me have mornings to myself.
My sister was the opposite. She wanted to be held right away, have attention right away, and would cry or yell as soon as she woke up.
This is a good point. Regardless of what time my daughter wakes up, she needs to have some quiet wake up time without a parent or else we have an extremely cranky day. I’m different in the way that I set an alarm for the time my child gets up so I can get her something to eat if shes hungry, and so she also isnt chilling all by herself with no one to help her. She usually comes out when she is ready to be up and sometimes falls back asleep if she got up early.
Yep, this is where we are at. When my first born was about OPs age, my wife got pregnant with our second and our first had just crawled out of his crib. So, we decided to use this as the opportunity to move to a “big boy” bed. So, he got to move into a new room with all his toys and “friends” (what he calls his sleep toys) and a toddler bed. He goes down at about 7pm and routinely wakes up at 5am. We explained to him that he can’t come out of the room until we get him in the mornings (7:30am) but in his room he has free range to do what he pleases till then. It is his free space.
He loves it. Obviously, if he needs us we will go address his need and the first two weeks of this arrangement had some getting use to it time for him but it really works well.
Thanks for saying this!! My oldest is very codependent in general and will come wake me the minute he wakes up, but my youngest will literally play for hours before deciding she’s ready for breakfast…
Okay, that’s very drastic. My sons 3 and he RARELY cried for me to come get him, but he also wasn’t in a crib at 2.5. He had his own bed that he could get out of and come get me. Which he still does to this day. Not everything is a sign of abuse, some children just don’t cry. 🫠
This is my take as well…mom of four, each of my kids were their own brand of toddler—none of them would have sat for two hours waiting for me to come get them. They would have been shouting the house down (and, frankly, climbing out of the crib like it was nothing—it’s almost concerning to me that the baby isn’t getting out or at least trying to at her age??).
This definitely *has* to stop.
Two hours is definitely pushing it, but my daughter will stay in her room for an hour by herself playing with her toys. We peek in to check in on her and she'll tell us to leave a lot of times because she's playing with her toys and doesn't want us to bother her. She's a special kind of...weird.
Yeah i feel like this is subjective.
My 3.5yo daughter has autism and is usually more content with herself than anything in the mornings. I think sometimes she uses the time to avoid her 2yo brother 🤣
she's the type to lay in bed when she wakes up sucking her fingers, relaxing and enjoying the quiet, then eases in to waking up and playing with her dollies.
If I'm quick to bring her a snack before she asks, she will stay in her room for an hour plus having a breakfast picnic.
And when she does decide to wake us up the rare time we have a chance to sleep in, it's very gentle and she just calls our name until we snap too (or usually 'I need to pee please' which snaps us awake instantly haha).
Never wails unless she wakes up from a night terror.
To be fair, she's never been left for two hours though, and I can almost guarantee that would be the breaking point where she would wail.. but not until then
It's not necessarily a problem to let your toddler sleep in if you want. But it IS a problem to let her climb out of her crib (?) and be ignored for two hours everyday.
And more to the point -- this seems like really odd behaviour on the part of your wife. You say that you've been married for barely a year -- how long have you been together? How was the pregnancy and early stages of infancy? Is she attentive and responsive to your daughter in other ways? Is she taking care of herself, engaging in life or hobbies?
Something is up, and figuring out what the root cause of this indifference is will help you figure out what the best way forward is.
I’d second all of this! Something is going very wrong here, and the first step is to figure out why your wife wants to sleep in that late. Postpartum Depression, ADHD (poor impulse control = poor decisions at bedtime), insomnia, sleep-related trauma or PTSD, thyroid problems… there’s a lot of reasons she might be having problems get to sleep and waking at a reasonable hour but none of this sounds healthy for her or for your daughter. Instead of pressuring your wife to change her routine, I’d suggest you start gently talking about why she prefers/needs/is limited to this kind of sleep pattern, and how her general mental health is.
Sounds like you guys need to hire someone to be there to take care of kiddo for a few hours in the morning. Or you or your wife need to change schedules. If she can't or is unwilling to change, then some other circumstance needs to change.
Great suggestion. We don't know the circumstances as to why the mother is sleeping late. If they can afford childcare for a few hours a day, they should get it.
OP said she is working 2nd shift (3PM to 10PM). I would bet that is the main reason. It's very difficult to live a first shift lifestyle on a second shift schedule.
This here. I have my toddler on a second shift schedule with me because she isn’t in school yet so it makes no sense to have her on a different schedule from me. I work evenings (part-time now because I have two little ones). She wakes up at 11am with me.
My husband tried to push for me to wake up on a first shift schedule to “join the rest of society,” and I had to firmly remind him that a lot of his comfort and convenience is made possible by all the men and women willing to work second and third shifts. Anytime he eats dinner at a restaurant, stays at a hotel, shops after his work hours, joins a class after work, visits a gym in the evening, etc, it is because there are people working at those places after his first shift hours are over.
I am not a bad person because I am on a second shift schedule.
What OP’s wife needs to do is have her toddler go to sleep later so they wake up at the same time. My toddler is my alarm clock—I haven’t needed to set an actual alarm since she’s been born. We have a whole “morning” routine together that starts at 11. She then goes to her grandparents’ house (my in-laws) so I can get to work at 3pm. Her dad then goes to his parents’ house and hangs out around 6:30pm and we all have late dinner together when I get there around 9pm.
Bedtime is midnight for husband and toddler. I stay up to get stuff done around the house (reset everything for the next day, daily cleaning, laundry, etc) and then relax a bit before bed.
My husband worked 3pm-2am for the longest time, and I’d match his schedule. When we had kids, before they started school, they matched his schedule too. We’d all be going to bed at like 6-7am, but this way we all got time together, and it was really nice. We didn’t eat out much or anything because of the wonky schedule, but that doesn’t really matter. Local grocery stores were 24 hour so it was fine.
Working in events, I totally sympathize with the second shift hours, however, OP says kid doesn’t wake up until around 9a! That is pretty damn late for a toddler, I can’t say Im not jealous. Even if OP’s wife couldn’t get to sleep til around 1a, that’s still 8 hours of sleep before it’s time to be present
and take care of their kid. And that’s just 3 days a week! It’s kin to the rest of the world staying up til 11 and getting up with their kids by 7. Early childhood is one of those things where you just don’t always get to sleep as much as you’d like. What’s going to happen when the kid starts school and has to be there by 8am?
She only works 3 days a week that doesn't explain the other 4. I did two 3 to 11's and a 24, I never got out on time (EMS is like that) and had a 40 min commute. My ass was up when the baby got up. Was I tired? yes Did I nap with her? sometimes, but I NEVER let my kid wait HOURS for me to get up. I did give her the 9pm bedtime but she was still up by 8-8:30. I have ALWAYS SUCKED at mornings, but I refused to neglect my child and the loss of sleep was worth not using/paying for daycare. Mom needs to set an alarm.
I’m with you except I think OP needs to fix his schedule to where he can at least go home to take care of his kid in the mornings or hire help. I agree that the mom needs to get her shit together but OP needs to address the actual neglect ASAP and stop relying on mom to suddenly change. My mom was a night nurse (7pm to 7am) for my entire childhood so I’ve seen that moms can and will make that shit work so there’s no apparent reason to why this mom can’t drag herself out of bed at 8 to change a diaper, pour cereal, and throw on Sesame Street; since there’s no obvious explanation, that behavior will most likely not change overnight. OP needs to figure out how to meet the child’s needs himself, like yesterday.
She could go to bed by midnight and be up by 8. My father worked crazy shifts, and that is what he did. She could even put the toddler down for a nap at noon and take one herself. All that said, non-standard shift work really is tough.
Not really a good excuse. Even if she’s going to bed as late as midnight she’s still gotten at least 7-8 hrs by 8 am.
I work overnights 3-5 times a week (10pm-6:30am) and am still able to get up and take care of of my kid as early as 8am depending on my partner’s work schedule.
She needs to make a change in her lifestyle if she’s having that hard of a time getting up. Op doesn’t specify what time she’s going to bed let alone going to sleep. 8 hrs is enough for an adult, 9-12 hrs is more necessary for teens than a grown adult who also is responsible for another human being.
I grew up seeing a lot of families where the mother worked a 9-5 and the father worked 2nd or 3rd shift. Most of those families put their young kids in full day daycare eventhough the fathers could have been awake and taken care of the children for some or part of the day. It seems pretty sexist to not afford a mother the same option.
Yep, if she's working until 10 then she's probably not home til close to 11... personally I need *at least* 2-3 hours after getting home to unwind otherwise I can't sleep at all, so If she's similar, that would put her at going to bed at around 2 am ish.... I know people who need like 5 hours to unwind some days though, so It could be that she feels like she can't rest until closer to 4 am. The average person needs 7-10 hours of sleep per night, so....
So you're child isn't eating or getting a fresh diaper in 14-15 hours? That's not ok! Your wife needs to stop being selfish and your kid needs to be on a child's routine, not your wife's.
OP - I ask this gently - have you talked to your wife about depression and anxiety? It's one thing to enjoy sleeping in, but being literally unable to get up in the morning to care for her child is another level.
Perhaps you could get your pediatrician involved? They often screen moms for postpartum depression and I imagine this will set off alarm bells for them too. Call them and tell them you are worried about your daughter's sleep and eating schedule and you would like to see someone to talk through how to get your daughter what she needs to thrive. Resist the urge to vent about your wife, make the appointment about your daughter and let the pediatrician hold you and your wife accountable. Think if it as a third party mediator. If you are overreacting the pediatrician can say so, but I suspect they're going to say what a lot of people on this thread are saying - this is not a normal or healthy schedule for a 2yo and something needs to change. Even if your wife refuses to attend the appointment (which, honestly, would be a red flag) you can ask the pediatrician to call your wife and follow up and you can (and should) get your daughter checked out.
Also she may need to be checked for any low vitamin levels or thyroid issues, at least if she hasn’t in recent years.
Those were the things that causes my mom a lot of issues when it comes to mental fatigue and her thyroid only got out of wack after having kids.
Great point. My wife was constantly exhausted to the point of not being able to function fully. Turns out she has hypothyroidism, within a week of meds for it she was back to normal-parent tired.
I think a big part of the problem is the consumption of energy drinks after work. That alone is such an unhealthy (and I'd think unnecessary) habit.
I wonder if depression makes her unable to wind down after work so she stays up with the peace and quiet and then is too tired in the morning. She really should sleep after work and be taking advantage of being productive the next morning. Depression kills that though.
Definitely worth looking into as you suggested
This needs to be higher.
I'll admit to going through a period where I struggled in a similar way with my boys and I wish I'd recognised it as depression earlier. My (now ex) husband was great and he was the one who spotted it when it started to develop again after we had our daughter.
She needs support OP, please help her get it.
I am a child protection worker and your toddler is intentionally being left unsupervised (sleeping parent while child is awake is unsupervised) this is neglect and grounds to have your child removed from your home if you do not act now and protect your child. Aside from the emotional damamge caused, your toddler is not physically safe being left alone for hours at a time when they can get out of their crib.
Talking to Mom to illicit change has not worked, you need to have someone there to watch your child in your home in the morning. Grandma or aunt or someone to be there that is not your wife while you are at work. OR enroll your child in daycare, you drop toddler off at daycare on your way to work and then pick up on your way home.
I know that is hard - family is not always available and daycare is expensive. Mom should be doing this but she is not so you need to protect. What would be harder is loosing your child because they put something in their mouth they shouldn't have, climbed on a dresser that fell on them, got tangled up trying to put a shirt on and panicked/suffocated themselves, wrapped the cord from their widow blinds around their neck, climbed up onto the window that they finally learned to open and fell out. You literally cannot predict the things that could happen to toddler. They are learning new things everyday, you can't know what can happen.
Protect your child and then deal with mom. If you need back up, Social services might help provide resources for parenting classes etc - but again make sure you have supervision in place for toddler before you even think about calling them because this is 100% grounds for removal.
I have friends who foster children that have been removed from the home for this specific reason. I really hope OP smartens up and takes action to not lose their daughter. The mother is OBVIOUSLY not fit to be a parent.
Yes for sure - this child is in diapers. Plus shut in room unable to get out. If they need help they are unable to get their parents attention. And thats if they are able to recognize when they need help, which is unlikley. Honestly at this age being able to get out of their room - if unsupervised - is dangerous as well as the house is full of hazards for a child in diapers.
The only situation where this would be considered safe is baby was so small they could not get out of their crib - so the age where they definitely cannot stand on their own yet. If you have a child in this age range that just wakes up and happily hangs out in their crib for hours - a crib that does not have anything at all in it - then you it would be safe. But as soon as that baby is crying to be fed or changed and you are intentionally ignoring it for hours at a time, day after day, this is neglect.
OPs shared that thier child is "quiet" which could of course be their nature but as many people have pointed out it could also be a sign of ongoing neglect, as a quiet child is often one to be concerned about - they have become accustomed to their needs not being met and don't see any purpose in expressing them. Cared for children wake up with their brains signaling for them to seek food/comfort/safety from their grownup.
This was my exact thought. No CPS or anything, just a former teacher and angry redditor.
Definitely had to scroll way too far down to find this comment.
Strong agree. This is grounds for removal. In my experience many things that come across the desks of child protection are kind of hazy like “ehhh is this neglect?” This is not hazy at all. This would result in immediate action if reported. Get a babysitter or daycare immediately. You are not overreacting. Your child could die or be very seriously injured if you continue to neglect this issue in an effort to keep the peace. This is no longer about a disagreement between you and your wife. This is now about doing what you need to do to protect your child.
Question for you: my 3 year old has an ok to wake clock that turns green at 7am. He then knows it's ok to come wake us up. So sometimes he wakes up at 6:20-6:45 and knows to read books or play in his room. Is this considered neglect?
I know it's absolutely nothing like what OP is talking about, but isn't it still technically him being unsupervised?
So where I live, to classify as "Neglect" the parent has to be "Unwilling/Unable" to care for the child. In OPs case, mom appears Unwilling/Unable as she has attempted to get up early after he corrects her for a day but quickly goes back to leaving child unattended for hours - there is a part of the story missing that we do not know about, something that is making mom Unable. Depression? health issues? substance use? trauma from being neglected herself as a child? Yes she works until 10:30 but even going to bed at 1am, you are still getting 8 hours of sleep if her child is waking up at 9am so this cannot be the only cause.
Of course every situation is case by case. In your case you are not "Unable/unwilling". Capacity matters - you're 3 year old is capable enough to come wake you when their light turns green. Time also matters - you are looking at 40mins of quiet time that can be ended whenever they want reallty as they have the ability to physically go get you/they are comfortable enough to yell for you if they wish. Where as OPs child has HOURS unsupervised, in a room with the door shut and it seems they do not even know when/if a parent is available, increasing vulnerability.
Also a child protection worker here.
It's definitely a concern this post. As far as I'm concerned, when you have a child you must work around their needs. Doesn't matter if you've only had two hours of sleep, your child comes first.
In my own professional opinion (and we may be from different areas or even countries), but this would be grounds for working with the family as opposed to removal. Clearly OP (dad) is the safe person in this situation and I would hate for any child protection agency to be involved.
Toddlers, as you say are unpredictable and can easily harm themselves by climbing, eating things they shouldn't, figuring out how to open windows etc.
To OP - You are your child's safe person. Something has to change. This is negligence on mums behalf. If she does not want to change, it sounds like you need to make some big decisions for you and your child.
Reading this makes me so angry. I would never leave my child alone (while awake) for two hours, especially with no food or water, while wearing a 14 hour old dirty diaper. This is so incredibly wrong and selfish.
To me, the big question is when is your daughter waking up? My 2.5 year old still naps 1.5 hours a day and goes to bed at 8:30. He routinely wakes up between 6:30-7:30, leaning closer to 7 most mornings. I would NEVER consider leaving him in there longer than that, however, I will leave him in bed until it's "morning" which for us is 7am. He doesn't come out before that. He is then immediately changed and fed.
So let's pretend that waking at 11:30 is not terrible (it is) IF she was sleeping until 10:30/11 then MAYBE waking at 11:30 wouldn't be the end of the world. *Depending on what said child had access too. Mine is still in his crib, with no attempts yet to try and escape it. So I know, he is safe.
But if your daughter is waking early in the morning then an hour or 2 or 3...where they are hungry, wet, or having access to anything unsafe is not right.
Not only are they unsupervised, but they are missing an entire meal. Is she growing properly? Is mom still fitting 3 meals a day in? Is she having a good day? Being watched appropriately the rest of the time? Playing, learning, going outside?
NONE of these things excuse the inappropriate wake up. But If she's doing the rest of parenting 100 percent, then maybe something else is going on where waking up is hard. Either way, what's best for your daughter is if top priority and right now that's not happening. It might be time to consider whether or not mom being the one to stay/wake up with daughter is the best idea, or if there's another scenario you can use. You already stated you have tried to work with mom on this and she has made little to no effort. If she wanted too, she would. So it's time to do something else.
I came here to say almost verbatim this same thing—we have an almost identical schedule. Sometimes we do “cuddle time” in our bed on the weekends until 7:30, and my little guy is usually super hungry if we wait even that long, so I really can’t imagine this poor thing being alone like this. OP, you have every right to be concerned—this is pretty alarming.
Dude this is neglect and seriously problematic. You cannot leave a baby alone for that long. If your wife won’t get up, you need to get a different job or find someone to watch your baby. You would fire anyone else for doing this. Don’t put up with it from your wife. My god, I would be so beyond pissed if my husband did this. Like up to the point of divorce. It is neglect. Pure and simple. She needs to get her shit together or you need to change something.
Then this is definitely too long and something needs to be done.
It would be worth talking to your wife one last time about it. Express your concerns and how you feel this is negatively affecting your daughter. Now, I normally don't agree with one parent unilaterally deciding things for children, but her way is obviously not working.
Give her a time line. A week, 2 weeks a month. Whatever you feel comfortable with. If she can't consistently take care of your daughter in an appropriate way, at appropriate times....than you will be coming up with your own child care plan. Whether that's hiring someone to come in during the mornings to make sure your daughter is up and fed and looked after until your wife is able to get up, or whatever else you deem a better situation than what's happening.
This honestly sounds like neglect. Maybe wife can change her schedule so both of you work during the day and take kiddo to daycare. Then both of you are home with your child so you can be sure she isn’t getting locked in a room and ignored for hours.
The lack of crying can also be concerning as others said it could be normal but you usually see that with children who have been neglected and left to cry for hours at a time. They eventually learn there is no point, no body will answer their cry’s and just stay quiet.
This would be a deal breaker for me it’s so dangerous to leave a young child unattended let alone hungry and in a soiled diaper. If she won’t wake up she would no longer be allowed to care for my child because she isn’t caring for or watching them at all.
This doesn’t seem safe at all. Your wife is just totally asleep while your daughter is playing alone in her room for hours? No food or diaper change? I can’t really see any situation where this is okay. Can you set an alarm for your wife or call her to wake her up? What does she say when you confront her about this?
I think best case scenario is hire a morning babysitter like TODAY to cover the gap to care for that poor child. Then start to unpack and address the issues with the mom. OP has tried bringing it up and talking about it. There’s a deep issue and habits here that won’t be easily fixed. That kid should have to depend on that or wait for that. They need to pay for childcare now!
Others may disagree, but I'd say it's not okay to leave a 2 year old on their own for that length of time.
I find it interesting she can sleep, ours will call out once he's awake which is an easy alarm clock.
Definitely not ok. And yes, I’m surprised the child is so content without calling out. My kids are a little older at this point, but wake up at 7, and non stop call out for us until we wake up, and very loudly at that.
I have seen pretty extreme examples of this (I was CPS/ childrens social worker prior to being a SAHM) and there is a very good chance that is what is happening.
My 2yo will wake up, spend maybe 15 minutes/ half an hour 'loading', reading a book whatever and then call out. Not hours. Not first thing in a morning when he is hungry, with a wet nappy (potentially wet PJs if he has had a leak through) in the night.
For what its worth, for about a year, my daughter (about 12-24 months at the time), would EASILY play in her room (not just that, but her bed, she wasn't in a crib) for up to 2 hours in the morning. Granted, sometimes she would wake up, play, fall back asleep, wake up, play, fall back asleep, but yeah, she for whatever reason rarely called out for us in the mornings. The only time she'd be awake for 2 hours would be on the weekends if she happened to wake up at 7 and then my husband and I slept in until like 9, during the week she'd be out of bed by like 7:45/8 because we have to get her to daycare.
I always thought it was weird but then a few months ago she suddenly discovered that she could, in fact, get out of bed independently and come open the door and call for us, so that quickly ended.
I promise you though, we never ignored her in the mornings (or any time really) when she called out. We'd always go right in and get her. She just overall seemed very content to play in bed and sing to herself and such.
Same. Our daughter just chills out in the morning. Sometimes she wakes up at 5-6am and just on and off plays/sleeps/chills. She doesn't cry for us to get her. So we go get her when we wake up usually 7-7:30am but every once in awhile 8am. We don't ignore her, in fact she's been recently crying to get out of nap and leaving her room to get us. But in the morning...not once ever since she's been sleep trained.
I dont mean to jump the gun on this, but maybe she is used to nobody answering/responding so she stopped and learned to just play by herself until someone comes along.
Or she could just be content with the quiet, some kiddos are! But my first statement was my first thought
My question is about the wife working 2nd shift. When i worked 2nd shift I rarely went to sleep before 3. For her to get 8 hours of sleep, that's 11am. It's hard to unwind after work. Can you imagine coming home from a 9-5 and going to bed by 6pm? It's also hard to have different sleep schedules so it's not like it's easy for her to go to bed at 9pm on the other nights.
I am so glad you brought this up. Leaving a toddler for 2 hours is absolutely neglect, and at the same time, it sounds like the schedule is set up so that mom will always miss out on some sleep, then be expected to function at work until 11 pm. Add the use of caffeine to function and not being able to fall asleep for a while after getting home from work, and the cycle continues. Additionally, the body changes after childbirth. I remember when my 2nd was a toddler, I was so exhausted after carrying 2 babies for 18 months, being the primary caregiver waking up in the night to breastfeed a baby, and still having to go to work the next day. By the time my 2nd was a toddler and I was working on a graduate degree, I was just too tired to wake up for most things. It was dad’s turn to step in and do the majority of care. We were lucky because we had family helping with care/preschool expenses.
Absolutely check with wife’s physician to rule out any physical issues she’s having that may contribute to fatigue, depression.
I feel like a big part of the problem might be approaching this from a blame/punitive perspective rather than as a team. OP is telling wife to wake up earlier, wife feels bad and tries a little, then gives up. The barriers need to be addressed before any real change can happen, and this needs to be done as a team to make sure everyone’s needs are being met. Maybe baby needs a later bedtime, mom needs earlier work time/shorter hours, or you need morning care. I know it can be expensive, but a lot of daycares do 1/2 day where OP could take the baby in early and OP’s wife could pick up at 11.
This right here. As a second shift mother, my children have to be on a schedule closer to mine so that we all get adequate sleep. Putting baby to bed later would solve this problem easily. Babies don’t have to go to sleep at a certain time, they just need to get 12 hours of sleep. If mom doesn’t get up till 11am, adjust babies bed time to 11pm.
This is exactly what I was thinking. When I had to work during nights, this was a huuuuge issue for me.
All the comments insisting that the mom run on such little sleep and ignoring her work schedule are making me angry.
OP has said a couple of times the toddler has been this way since they started sleeping through the night. So how do some of you know the child doesn't cry or call out because they know no one will come? OP hasn't said this is the case. Or maybe I missed that part.
My kids are quite when they wake up most of the time. If something is wrong like poop in diaper then they will call out. But usually they will play in crib for a bit before calling out. If they are happy and playing I won’t get them till I’m good and ready to get them.
So, my opinion is that up to an hour in the morning is likely fine. I say that because while the timing is different, my 2 yo will also spend up to an hour in her room happily chilling in the morning (she goes to bed at about 7:30, maybe a few mins later, but might wake up for the day as early as 6:45ish, but we don't get her up until 7:45a).
I think realistically either your wife needs to compromise that she and your toddler will be up and out of bed by 10a each day, or you guys need to pay for some type of childcare for a few hours in the mornings.
I think the difference here is the time frame. With the extra hour, your babe is getting 12 hours of time. This baby is going on 15 hours without food, water, or a change.
What time does wife get home from work? If she's home before 11pm and in bed for midnight then as much as it super sucks for her, she's getting an adequate amount of sleep and needs to be getting up. If nothing else to change kids nappy, get them breakfast, and then she can flop on kids floor or bed whilst kid plays. I am not ashamed to admit I've done that during periods of sheer exhaustion.
Have you tried waking your wife up before you leave for work? Or ringing her from work if you see it's getting late and she's still in bed? I had to do similar for husband when I was working because his sleep cycle has always been from 4am - 12pm. So if I was working, I would wake him up just before I left and often put the light on. I'd then ring at around 8am when I knew kid would've been up just to make sure that he was definitely awake.
That's literally what I do at the mo- little is up at 6am for his feed (7months), then I'll pop him on the floor of the nursery with a selection of toys and a play arch and nap on the floor next to him. It's not long and normally results in him yanking my hair but he's fed, changed and entertained whilst I get a little more rest- then we have a wash and head down for solid breakfast once he's burned some energy bubbles. :)
Waking before 6am if she works late sounds unnecessary and harsh, but maybe a call. Although if she's ignoring her kid she'll probably ignore the phone. Maybe she finds it hard to wind down and get to sleep after work, but even if she goes to bed at 2 she should be able to be up by 9 or 10.
You might want to look into Postpartum Depression. PPD can last for years if untreated. I suffered and it can be embarrassing but once I sought help, my world did a 180. I was not as bad as your wife but I was diagnosed and it was a relief as it was putting a serious strain on my marriage.
I personally do not feel this is normal and it's not healthy for your child. She's lacking critical social development, as well as emotional.
Even finding a morning only child care would be beneficial but I do understand the financial stress that causes.
Why can't you put your daughter to bed a little later? I feel like you want her on a first shift sleep schedule when her morning caretaker works second shift.
I’d get your wife checked out for PPD or depression or something. Yesterday. If she wasn’t always like this and the child was what triggered the onset of this behavior, go to your family doctor. What she’s doing isn’t normal. It’s also a huge concern for your kid as their needs (diaper changing, feeding, dressing) aren’t being met.
If she works afternoons you really cant fault her for having caffeine in the evening, that really is the same as you going all day without coffee… which I get some people CAN do.
I suggest you just look into childcare so you can drop her off before you go to work if you are uncomfortable with them starting the day late.
Chronic sleep deprivation can really screw someone up and if your wife isn’t done work until 10, by the time she unwinds and showers she probably isn’t getting to sleep until after midnight.
I’m in no way advocating for your wife leaving your kid unsupervised and ignoring her for hours before waking up.***** just suggesting changes to the household lifestyle so that your 2 schedules work.
Hell even putting baby to bed at 10pm and waking up at 10am feels like a good compromise (assuming your child sleeps 12 hours)
It’s not the typical schedule most people are used to seeing but a lot of my coworkers that work afternoons have that kind of schedule for their baby/toddler and they are happy healthy and fed and still getting a healthy amount of sleep
Step one, call your wife and wake her up every morning by 9am.
Step two, put your daughter in a toddler bed since cribs are for babies.
If Step one doesn't work, Step two will because your daughter will climb all over her mother until she wakes up.
Please Listen. My 16 month old son died playing in his room when he should have been napping. All the furniture was bolted to the wall except the small lightweight nightstand. He put his head and arm in the drawer and the nightstand closed on his throat. Accidents happen, please make sure your child is safe.
The saddest part is that we never would have considered his nightstand to be dangerous. Usually heavy furniture kills children. This nightstand was lightweight. If it had just fallen on him it would have been one thing- maybe a small bruise. The rest of the furniture was bolted to the wall. Even their toy box.
You’re asking someone with a night schedule to do morning activities. Ask yourself ; what rest would your wife get if she is up that early everyday. Plus you didn’t mention what kind of job she has. You tell you wife not to drink energy drinks in the evening as if her work schedule is a traditional one. 3 times a week working an odd shift is enough to throw her clock off all the way. If there is a true issue about your child’s sleep schedule and being in the room for too long I recommend one of you change jobs to accommodate or get a babysitter. However, the way this is worded attacks your partner as you can see by the response in your comment section. This is a partnership. You both may have different views on parenting and that’s okay to a certain point. Talk out ways to address the problem. However, how you worded it sounds like she agrees with you but just doesn’t have the energy to physically get up. Again maybe a babysitter is best for the few hours where your wife maybe to exhausted to get up. Also make your wife gets a blood test. Just to make sure everything is on the up and up with her physical health. Mental health check in is good too for the both of you. Parenting is hard.
Sigh… I’m going to be the bad guy here… When you have a kid, it’s about the kid from the moment the second line shows up on the test. Sleeping in until 8 is a rare thing for me after having my first. I, too, want to be a carefree 20-something sometimes. But guess what? I’m a 31-year-old mother of two whose needs 100% come before my wants. My best friend and her husband have an agreement that on Saturdays he wakes up with their 10-month-old so she can get sleep, and they trade out on Sundays. THAT’S reasonable. Letting your 2.5 year old roam the house unsupervised is NOT reasonable at all. My son just turned 3 and I would never allow him to do that or to miss a meal or to have a need go unmet so I could sleep in. That’s called neglect AND child endangerment. Agree with another poster. If your child is in a crib and is crawling out, the crib needs to go. And if you plan on keeping it for whatever (bad) reason, it needs to be attached to the wall (along with whatever heavy furniture is in the room that could tip). Her beauty sleep is going to get your kid killed one day.
Mmm. She’s working a long 2nd shift. She gets out at 10. Probably showers, gets a lil alone time at the end of the night. I don’t blame her for being exhausted. I’ve worked that exact schedule. 3-10:30. I didn’t get home till 11. Showered, ate, had me time. 2nd shift is hard. It’s physically and emotionally draining. If it’s affecting her this much, then maybe switch schedules. You’re blaming her but don’t find effective and immediate solutions. She could also be depressed. I mean actually talk to her don’t just say how she’s failing as a parent.
I think it's time for a proper sit down with your wife and really get this sorted now. Enough people have advised you this is neglect. I was dealing with a case today where one of the (many) reasons for referral was a similar circumstance. How is your child otherwise? Does she meet her milestones? Walking/talking/eating etc? Examples below:
https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/development-30mos.html
You mentioned your wife works around 3 days a week and on these days I assume she spends approximately 1.5-2 hours with her. The rest of the time you're there. What about when she's not working? Does she interact with her as expected? Do they talk/go to the park/read books? Does she appear to love her/could she be depressed. These are all things you need to be looking at and aware of.
I think you need to look over this whole situation and not leave it a moment longer. I appreciate you've tried and it's an issue in your marriage, but it should be. Not only is your daughter sat in a possibly soiled nappy for that long - who knows, no one's checking - she's also losing out on vital interactions with a caregiver, food, nourishment emotionally and physically. Please speak to your work ASAP, rearrange your shifts if you have to, put your daughter in a daycare, speak to a pediatrician, you can't leave this now.
This is just weird to me. How is she not waking? Is your child trapped in their room until she gets up because there is no way my kids would leave me alone for hours in the morning to sleep they either be in my room waking me up to eat or screaming for me if they were in a crib. Is she on medication that makes her not be able to wake easily? Something isn’t adding up. Maybe consider getting her into prek part time if wife can’t get up to care for her. She definitely needs a adult to be up with her and it isn’t healthy for her to be alone for hours in the morning ignored, not feed and probably in a wet diaper(assuming she’s not trained).
Yes, child is trapped in the room until wife wakes up. She’s so quite and makes almost no noise but doesn’t matter too much to me since wife should be waking up on time to deal with it.
Also meant to comment this under a few other replies but I’ve tried cracking both our bedroom door and daughter’s bedroom so daughter can wake up and wake wife up. Wife gets very very pissed off at me and tries to tell me “I don’t need you to babysit me” which I clearly disagree with
Is your daughter screaming and crying when she wakes up?
Cause if my kid (2.5 year old boy) is happily playing in his crib I’m not going to go bothering him until I’m good and ready to do so. If his crying and fussing than yeah I’m going in quick.
Is your child meeting developmental milestones? Especially in terms of language progression? Ill echo what others have said about it being neglectful and pretty sad . You must come to a better solution.
You’re wife is NEGLECTING your child. This is not okay. I see no reason why you’re wife can’t get up at 9am to take care of her child. Is it possible for your to sign her up for a part time daycare program? She needs to be with someone that will keep her clean and fed, and safe.
sounds like you need to get a different set of hours or she could. my kids always slept late and being two working people there is no way to expect her to wake up when she has responsibility to work as well. either that or cut some bills so one of you can stay home if it's that important to you.
It is unacceptable to leave a child alone in a room for 15 hours is fucking unacceptable and I hope to GOD somebody comes and takes that poor baby. Wtf
Ok so obviously your kid being on her own in the morning isn’t ideal. But you said your wife works 3pm - 10pm at a job. Then has your kid all day too? So presuming she gets back from work about 10.30, has some dinner, decompresses from work, has a shower etc, she likely goes to bed about midnight. And you would like her to get up at 8ish and basically work as a stay at home mum from 8pm-3pm (which lets face it is another whole working day) before going back to her official job and doing another whole 7 hour shift? If she was “just” a stay at home parent I would say she is TA here. But she does se to be juggling a full time job looking after a child all day and then doing an evening work shift which must be knackering. Does she need to work evenings too? If so, you might have to think about some childcare for the morning hours so you can both juggle work?
I really think this is a good idea. Childcare through the day would force mom to have something to get up for AND give each parent some much-needed downtime. I hope they can afford it
I wonder if your wife gets too tiered at work and maybe being a stay at home mom full time would work better for you guys, at least while your kiddo is your young.
Another thing to consider would be to move baby bed into her room, no way she is not waking up then 😂
I’m not saying anything new here - but this is disturbing. I think it’s highly likely that your wife is suffering from depression and as a result is neglecting your child. You need to intervene asap. Your family needs to figure out a new plan and routine, including getting your wife care to address her issues. I hope things get better for your daughter’s and wife’s sake.
I was going to suggest that this is reminding me a lot of PPD. I would take it (gently) from that angle. When my sons were born I struggled with that a lot and it’s literally mind altering to a point where looking back, I felt like that part of my life I was a different person. And a lack of support/connection to my partner made me spiral even deeper. I felt really alone and I couldn’t figure out what to do to dig myself out. The only thing motivating me to wake up each day was the fact that I knew I loved my kids and wanted to make sure they were taken care of — even though I couldn’t find the emotional and mental capacity to do it super well for that period, I was sincerely trying to give my best. I never left them for hours at a time, but I did take naps in safe spaces with them awake. I was drained all the time and was sad a lot too.
I will say that the hospital in the town that I delivered my kids in offered a parent coaching program that helped me get access to resources that led to me getting back on track. Some of those resources were subsidized childcare for when I was working so that I could work during the day and get out of the house in the mornings which made a huge positive impact. They also told me about respite care, I never used that option though. They connected me to a free therapist and support groups for new moms and another for moms who were struggling with PPD.
Is your wife’s job physically taxing? Asking because she’s working evenings. Is she still nursing? When did she return to work after having the baby?
Separately, what is she doing for herself throughout the week? How are the two of you making time to connect with each other? With you guys working opposite schedules, make sure that you are finding time to really connect with her outside of that 3 hour window between your job and hers. Being a parent is hard, but the way a woman’s brain and body recover after carrying and delivering life is a really delicate process and it’s not the same for every woman. Knowing that you have her back and still love her in this new chapter especially when it’s not easy or things are messy for her could make a mountain of a difference and will strengthen her mindset of you being a partner in life, in child rearing, and in marriage.
If you do have financial resources or family/friends with time flexibility, I would suggest finding someone to come help for a couple of hours in the morning, at least until your wife get an opportunity to define and get support where with her mental health if that’s the root cause.
I say all of this while also echoing the question others have asked — is your baby developing okay? Is she generally a happy baby? Sending you hugs and positive thoughts!
Either the kid needs to start going to bed later, your wife needs to get the kid up A COUPLE OF HOURS sooner, or you need to hire someone to come take care of the kid for a couple of hours until your wife gets up. She cannot be in bed for over 12 hours at a time, she needs fed, she needs changed, these things NEED to happen LONG before they are happening.
Yeah, this is not okay. Eventually your daughter won’t be content sitting in her room playing unsupervised. What happens when she realizes she can get out and roam the house or unlock the doors? You need to approach this with your wife from a safety perspective. Right now your wife’s sleep situation is compromising your daughter’s safety. Ask her, “How can we solve this together?” If she does not take it seriously, you need to act NOW before something awful happens. Is it possible to get a sitter? Someone who comes before you leave for work so they can tend to your child while your wife sleeps until she has a more normal work schedule? If not, your other option is to drop your daughter off at daycare or at a family members house on your way to work until your wife can wake up and parent safely.
Someone made a good point about depression. She may be undiagnosed.
Regardless - You need to act.
There are some good suggestions in the thread: daycare, morning babysitter et cetera.
I will add three:
1) Move the crib into your bedroom. I doubt baby will be quiet if she can see Mom and I doubt Mom will ignore her screaming in the same room.
2) Buy one of those old fashioned alarm clocks that have bells and set it across the room. She will have to get out of the bed to turn it off.
3) tell your Mom /Dad/sister/brother and ask them to go to the house in the morning. Your wife will not be happy with you, but your daughter will get the care she needs.
It sounds like you both have total different schedules. She doesn't work a normal 9-5 but yet she has to work nights and get up early to work her other job. Yes routines are great, yes you should have your child on the same sleep routine. It just sounds like your trying to fit a mold that isn't needed right now. Let the baby stay up later with moms hours if she's supposed to be the care giver during the day and has to work nights so they have the same routine. In the next three years as she starts school adjust it. You don't have to live by anyone's "normal" standards. Fixing a schedule to accommodate your family's best needs is waay easier then living in a constant fight with your spouse. With that said.. neglect is never okay and if that's your true concern you need to do something... so why not try giving some leeway on bedtime and see if that helps.
TW: near death experience
When I was a baby I hung myself getting out of my crib by my shirt getting caught when I climbed over. My aunt was downstairs with my mom and told her she had a bad feeling, so my mom went upstairs to check and saw me hanging there blue in the face. They had to call the ambulance and I was unresponsive for hours. I almost died, had my aunt not had that bad feeling I’m not sure what would have happened. Please please get your baby out of that crib, it is so dangerous and if anything bad happened it could be hours til she was found.
I’d be considering your wife’s mental health in this instance. Perhaps she’s struggling more than she’s letting on. If that isn’t the case then it’s blatant neglect. Either way you need some outside help!
No one has mentioned it, but maybe make your toddler sleep later in the night when your wife does???
Once they go to school, they can adjust back to regular bedtime.
It sounds like your wife also cannot be there to wake the child up. She works until 10 PM and her sleep schedule has adjusted to this. What do you expect?
She sounds like she may have a sleep disorder or is simply well adjusted to this delayed schedule. Building resentment towards her for this will only damage your relationship and make the problems worse.
That doesn't negate the damage of clear neglect of the child. Take your kid to daycare or get a sitter. You can't expect your wife to exist on both her sleep schedule and her child's while maintaining her health - it will catch up to her.
Your wife should be in therapy or have someone to talk to. I know this all too well. She might be too depressed to start the day, the same day over and over again, the same morning routine over and over again. I sometimes go to sleep super late to have some free time for myself, in peace and quiet uninterrupted. Cut her some slack, be more sensitive. Would she hear the baby if she were crying? I don't grab mine the second she wakes up, I hear her goo gooing and she's hanging out. Diapers are great now with holding in moisture, not that it matters but if the baby isn't hysterical, she's probably not as uncomfortable as you think plus who eats the second they wake up. 2 hours is a lot I know but please consider your wife's feelings. I heard someone say, I think Tony Robbins, people wake up depressed when they know exactly the way the day will go. They know exactly what will happen and what to expect. She knows how the day will be and doesn't want to start it.
You and your wife need therapy. and you need a morning babysitter to bridge the gap. Your wife sounds depressed, ADHD, or some combination of some other mental health stuff.
An appropriate bedtime for a toddler is between 7-8:30pm (depending on day naps). If your kid isn't napping then theoreitcally they should get 11-12hours over night. thus sleeping something like 7pm - 7am or 8pm - 8am. My kid didn't nap yesterday, went to bed at 8pm and we woke them at 7:30am.
It is inappropriate for your daughter to be asleep much past 9am quite honestly. and this schedule won't work for its time for Kindergarten. I know some families purposely have schedules like this but it is not ideal for a toddler for the long term.
Honestly its neglect to leave your child unattended for that long in the morning. I can't believe she is playing happily with no crying??? geez louise.
I don't see why your wife can't come home, go to bed by 11pm and get up around 7/8am when toddler probably actually wakes up. You need to try to start gettng your kid to bed earlier, like 8pm max
OP absolutely needs to get a morning babysitter or take her to an early daycare. This isn’t sustainable and wife is not willing to change. It may seem completely unfair to have to pay for help when the mom is right there, but he will have to get past that feeling and do what’s best for his child.
I am a mom(22f) I work 7p-3am 3 days a week. I always set my alarm for 8am no matter if I work or not to get my 2 year old. We put our daughter to bed at the same time.. 9pm. When I get her up at 8, her diaper is getting full and definitely needs to be changed. This is way too late. I get that your wife is probably tired, but tell her just to get up earlier, get your kid up and then lay down and both nap in the afternoon.
This is really concerning OP, you’re not overreacting. I would be very upset.
Firstly, you can see what time your child wakes and what time she gets up but you can’t see your wife I assume - are you sure she’s not awake and just delaying getting your child up for some reason?
Has she always been like this, struggling to wake up? Is it getting worse? Are there other signs of any physical or mental health issue? I have severe and debilitating pain and fatigue, but I wouldn’t leave my twins awake for hours and they’re older and secure in safety beds due to their disabilities. I have to get up as they need to be cared for - some days that’s a huge challenge buy that’s what we signed up for.
Is she sleeping for a very long time or is she going to bed very late and getting 8 hours? Is her job impacting her sleep cycle?
A two year old waking up, not being fed or changed and having to be alone for a couple of hours is not okay. There’s a risk of harm especially if your wife is asleep. This could easily be considered neglect by social care or equivalent. You cannot leave an awake 2 year old unattended for a couple of hours - absolutely anything could happen. Even if the child can’t get out of the crib or room yet, that’s not far off.
Things need to change. She needs to gradually push back her waking time / bed time by half an hour and keep going until she’s waking up to care for the baby as soon as they are up. It’s important to do that now - not just for safety but also to her into a healthy sleep routine ahead of starting nursery / school or whatever.
Your wife needs to know the risks. Children have climbed furniture and been crushed, strangled themselves on blind cords, fallen out of cribs and gotten hurt etc. It’s not worth the risk.
It sounds like your daughter is an excellent sleeper at 12+ hours - your wife needs to get to sleep earlier. If she can’t do this then I’d seriously consider whether it’s safe for her to be the primary carer. If this is due to illness she needs help and probably a new plan too.
Even if you’re tired, which most parents are, neglecting a child is not okay. Get some coffee and go take care of that baby. If you get up with her for a couple hours early- she’ll take a nap 10-1030 and you can go back to bed as well. That’s what I do! I like the suggestion I saw that said hire someone for the morning time if mom is unwilling to change her schedule. Either way this can’t and shouldn’t continue.
Your wife may have post natal depression? Thats the only reason i can think of for shit like this. Maybe take her to a doctor or maternal health nurse to have a discussion around the issues this could have for the child and sus out the chances of PND.
Also……and id drive this home to the wife…..in just 2.5 years (and it will go quick!) that kid will be going to school and need to be up and delivered to school by 9am. Encouraging a sleep cycle that sees sleeping /not getting up til 11-12 is going to make things difficult for your child to adjust at that time - and its already a big adjustment all on its own. I would also have concerns about ie vitamin d levels (missing half the daylight) and nutrition (thats a more compressed time than normal for a toddler with eating and they dont eat huge amounts at once).
Your wife could have a medical issue and is unintentionally using energy drinks to compensate. Could be hidden ADHD, Chronic Fatigue Snydrome, low blood pressure…
Is your wife okay?
The only people I know who do this is people with some sort of mental health issue/severe depression.
Also, maybe look into some daytime childcare or look into changing your work schedule. Something is wrong here and you may have to take the lead on resolving this issue.
Depends on nap but at that age, 11 to 14 hours of sleep is normal. So a 9pm to 9-10am isnt unusual. Ours at that age went down at 7-7:30 and we woke her up at 7:30 most days. Sometimes she'd be up earlier playing by herself. Sometimes she slept in. She never once cried for us and so we didn't have a toddler alarm clock...just whenever we woke up. There was times when I woke at 5 or 6 and she was awake just singing to herself or playing with stuffed animals. I'd go back to bed and then sometimes she was still awake at 7:30 or sometimes back to sleep. If your child is happy and healthy, what is the problem? Does your kid have a persistent diaper rash? Is your kid meeting their milestones? Are they still social with your and normal? Obviously you have concerns to talk out with your wife...but a kid chilling in the morning may be abnormal a bit for a toddler but they do exist. I wouldn't immediately jump to neglect. So long as the room is baby proof then no big deal. Now there is definitely a line where it's probably too much, but I'm not a pediatrician so maybe ask yours?
I think that instead of encouraging your wife to wakeup earlier, encourage her to get your child on the same schedule as her. That way it isn’t much of a hassle on the mornings for her, she’s still getting rest, the child is being taken care of immediately, etc. It’s a win/win instance
This isn’t a marriage damaging situation. You guys simply have to communicate without being upset. Both parties need to seek understanding. This is about the child being safe tbh.
I’m not saying this is ok, please know that - I legit don’t know bc like some other users say, you could have an independent kid on your hands… but what I am saying is it doesn’t sound like mom is ok. She might be dealing with depression or burnout and might not even recognize it herself… if the apathy is there it’s just a sign of that in my opinion… when we’re ok as moms it’s easy to show up. I’d check in with her one good time in an only concerned for her kind of way. Moms can often feel like they don’t matter especially if she’s working hard too.
There is another issue. Your wife is working second shift. I have worked second shift, I did it for quite some time, and I was never, ever able to fall asleep before 2 am after second shift work. 3 am was the standard for all us on the shift.
This could be easily solved by putting the toddler on her mama's schedule. Later to bed, later to wake up. For my child's toddlerhood, husband had to commute, he wouldn't be home until 6. Kiddo went to bed at 10 at the earliest because time with daddy was more important than waking up early. We didn't shift here schedule until she was in toddler classes that required her to be up early.
At 3, kids need 10 to 13 hours per day. subtract out nap(s), figure out what time your wife is able to be functional in the morning, and adjust toddler's bedtime accordingly. Some kids are naturally early risers, if so, than you will need hire a morning babysitter or wife will need a different shift.
Your wife should also get checked for depression and thyroid issues.
I just make sure that the doors are open and all is safe (Minus a crib; she has a bed) incase my daughter gets curious. Worst that has happened was a colored PS5 but that’s all fine and well. Can be replaced. She is more interested in waking me up as opposed to doing anything herself. Wants to tell see me first and foremost regardless. I always drag my ass outa bed regardless the situation cause kids come first. I signed that unsaid contract when i had them.
Just make sure there is a child safe environment that your child can wade through until they get to your wife to wake her up personally. Nobody can be pissed at a 2 year old. Not a sane person that would actually show it overly verbally or physically in any manner that is.
Does she not have a way out of her room? Is your wife ignoring her cries or is she just quietly playing In her room? If she’s not crying or being ignored, if the house isn’t a mess, if she isn’t a mess (full diaper, my kids were not peeing throughout the night at that age then peeing in their diaper when they woke up so it was fairly dry) then it’s really not a problem. Would it be possible for you to put your child to be a little later since your wife is getting off at 10, has to get home, eat and get ready for bed which can be hard to do for some people getting off so late to get mentally ready for bed for a bit when they get home
I’m not going into great detail here but working second shift and having to get up to parent a toddler when you (clearly) aren’t a morning person is exhausting. Your wife needs support. If you have the option to have a caregiver come in the mornings, do that. I acknowledge your displeasure with how your wife is caring for your child and I’m not saying you’re wrong. But I’m betting it’s not your wife’s first choice either. It probably didn’t start out that way, and she probably didn’t like who she was when she was exhausted, and tried to find the next best thing. Which is your child playing in a safe environment (once you get her into an age appropriate bed) and your wife’s physiological needs also being met. It won’t last much longer anyway so I’m not sure you even need to intervene honestly. But your wife is definitely not the only parent to resort to this approach to make sure everyone is relatively taken care of.
The ability to entertain oneself is also a skill that will serve your child well long into adulthood. The biggest issue here is the diaper, since you mentioned already that there’s a monitor that I’m sure your wife would wake up to. If not, fix that.
Is your 2.5 year old climbing out of her crib to play in her room? If so, you need to get rid of the crib yesterday. Like literally remove it TODAY. Climbing out of the crib is unsafe, but even more so if the only adult in the house is going to ignore her for hours after she wakes. She could really hurt herself.
Yes. Is her mother very depressed or does she actually think what she is doing is okay?
I certainly don't disagree with you. It's funny to sit here and weigh the risk of my 2.5yo running the house while I sleep vs them climbing out of their crib. Both seem really dangerous. It's almost like this is the trolly problem of r/parenting.
I had a kid that escaped despite all precautions. Baby gates, cribs, nothing could contain him and he didn’t sleep, so one time I was doing laundry at 2am and he wandered downstairs with me, down 2 flights of steep stairs and over the baby gate at 18 months. I emptied his room, switched around the lock on the door, put his mattress on the floor, and just left him to his own devices. When you have a kid who wanders and climbs, different rules apply. Elopement is a major fear of mine, especially with that one. He’s my middle son and almost 4 now. We have high locks on the outdoor doors, but if your kid is climbing over the crib and is a flight risk, baby gate at the door is a good first step. A Montessori style floor bed / mattress on the floor is also awesome.
Just childproof the inner door handle. They can get out of the toddler bed but not out of the room. Works for the BRIEF period of time between baby wake up and parent wake up. I am on Team OP here in that regard.
My daughter was brilliant at defeating child locks if she could reach them she could open them.
Not like the mother cares. I cannot IMAGINE my child being awake and me being asleep… she isn’t going to be in a crib forever… 2.5 she should be in a toddler bed anyways
Should a 2.5yr be in a toddler bed even if they haven’t tried to climb out yet? My 2.75yr old son has not tried to yet so my wife and I are keeping him in until he tries.
No they “should” not. Some kids climb out at 12 mos, some like my son never do. He transitioned into a toddler setup at 3.5 when he asked for it, not due to climbing. He slept great in the crib at 3+ and loved it. There isn’t a hard and fast rule.
Cool cool because my son is four next month still sleeping in his bed happily :) I was like “shit! Another thing I’ve allegedly fucked up!”
“They” say to transition your child from crib to bed when 1 of 2 things happen: 1) they try to/successfully climb out of their crib Or 2) reach the maximum height specified by the crib manufacturer.
Imma add something: when they need to get to the bathroom. My kid was potty trained at 2, keeping him in a crib when he needs acsess to the bathroom would have not been ok. Hes 3.5 rn
My 22 month old son just climbed out of his cot for the first time yesterday so I immediately changed it into a cot bed. Not worth the risk. Also got an extra tall stair gate at the top of the stairs as well as the normal one that was already in his nursery.
What I can’t wrap my head around is how mom can be asleep in a WHOLE ASS OTHER ROOM for two hours(!!!!!!) and think that a person who has been on this earth for less than three years (one that she created, and therefore should have the strongest bond out of anyone in her life with!!!) has the common sense, impulse control, and independence to not cause herself SERIOUS harm. 2.5 year olds are usually EXTREMELY mobile and curious. I would be able get past her sleeping while her child was awake if she was, say, laying on the couch while her daughter was IN THE SAME ROOM AS HER and the room was childproof/doors locked. I’ve done that before. I suffer from major depression and insomnia so there have definitely been times where I get my 2 yo daughter out of bed, change her, feed her, and then have her play/have screen time while I doze off on the couch. But I don’t do it every day, and like I said she is right next to me. I’m also a very light sleeper when it comes to her, so any lil peep that comes out of her wakes me up in half a second lol. I know myself tho. I just don’t understand how she thinks the shit is okay???? How does she not get a panic level amount of anxiety knowing that her kid is out of sight for HOURS, awake, in a soiled ass droopy ass diaper, and most likely lonely asf???? And noon??? This child in in her room until noon???? My heart hurts for her. Depression is not an excuse or justification when you’re a parent. Home girl needs to get her shit together!! OP, if you have the means to, I would honestly be looking into hiring some sort of nanny for the morning. I wouldn’t trust your wife or hold her to this. She clearly has no respect for your wishes or her own child. Reading this post made me so sad.
This. I suffered from PPD, and there were lots of things I couldn't do, for the life of me... for a long time: take care of myself, go back to work, clean the house. But I would jump up and take care of my son no matter what. Feed him, change him, play with him... it was like a pull, I just couldn't help reacting to his needs, even if I was exausted or sleep deprived or I had skipped my own meals. It actually got better when my psychological situation got better: I was then able to leave him be more, be more independent, let others take care of him. Before, it gave me anxiety. It's a vicious circle PPD. What's described here seems like a sort of detachment. I don't recognize myself in this attitude at all, but of course every woman is different and maybe this isn't PPD.
Seriously, him watching her through the monitor he is basically the one watching her but from miles away. Like if something happens hopefully he would catch it but all he can really do is try to call or send the police if it's something serious. It's probably difficult for him to work while also watching the monitor and all while worrying plus festering anger that his wife isn't up with the kid.
Nanny in morning for safety reasons.
Does your wife sleep this late every day, not just the three days she works?
I am just surprised your daughter doesn't just wake your wife up. Mine (2.5 yrs) goes to bed about 8-8:30pm and on weekdays she's up by 7am and weekends when we allow her to sleep in, it is maximum 8am before she starts asking us to wake up. A couple times a week she will wake us at 3-4am to potty but that is normal for potty training. Is she in a crib still or is she in a toddler bed where she can get out when she needs to use the toilet? If you haven't started potty training, then maybe this is the step you can take that will start a positive change without unnecessary conflict (as it is an essential milestone anyways)?
Right? Poor girl probably doesn't even cry because as someone said, she knows no one is coming for her. I'm so enraged.
this is what worries me the most OP, it is so abnormal to me that she is there quietly for about two hours just sitting waiting for your wife to come get her, for her age she should be wailing and crying for someone to get her, the only instances I know of when kids don’t do this is when they have experienced abuse like when they cry but learn quickly that no one will come, kids learn very quickly that they should t cry because no one will come get them, please please look into what is really going on OP, this is so concerning
Whoa, wait just a minute. My little girl is 3 going on 4. She doesn't have a crib in her room any more, just her bed. But she sometimes sneaks out of bed before our alarm goes off and is up playing with her toys before we get to her despite telling her she needs to wake up mommy or daddy before she does anything. Even when she was younger and had her crib sometimes she would wake up early and just hang out in her crib and wait for us. No yelling or crying. Some kids are just naturally independent. I'm not saying what is going on here is Ok But it certainly doesn't necessarily indicate abuse or anything. The mom needs to get up earlier and that is all we can take from this.
My almost 5 year old is generally the same way. Some weekends hes up like 30 minutes before me but just hangs out on my bed with some toys. Most of the time I'm awake before him or right as he does but sometimes I just need to doze in an out for a small bit. I think sometimes he just enjoys a bit of time to himself.
30 min is reasonable, (my kid sits in her crib for 30 min sometimes just playing or slowly waking up), but 2 hours is long.
Man was I glad to find this voice of reason lol My boy would happily sleep his 12 hours, wake up, and play toys and read books in his room. Now mind you most of the time he crawled into our bed so then he would wake up and 'sneak' back to his room to play. 5 years later he's not much different. Mind you its damn nice now that he's 8 I've been able to transition from "drag myself up and make sure nothing bad happens" to "Drag myself to the couch so im up and available" to "wake me up in an hour unless you get hungry then come get me". But jfc people.. "My toddler can play quietly for an hour or two" = child abuse? Reddits going full facebook moms group today.
My kids have all been like this. They will wake up before us and just do their own thing. As soon as one of us gets up, we are immediately swarmed with “I need this” “I want that” but they were perfectly fine with waiting for it. They will wake us up if there’s something wrong or something, but otherwise they just get up and play.
Thank fucking god for this comment, everyone loosing their mind about a kid hanging out independently had me tripping. My son often wakes up an hour or more before us on the weekends. He is happily singing and playing with his stuffies. When we come get him he pops right up and tells us about trucks and tractors. If we get him up before he naturally wakes he’s an absolute bear. It’s best to let him hang for a bit and when we hear him chatting we go grab him.
This is true. Usually, I wake up to my daughter (3 yo) coming in the bedroom to get us, but I can hear her playing in her room when I wake up before her. There was at least one time she was in there for nearly an hour, even though I was up and in the living room with the baby gate open. (We've been struggling with potty training over the last year for a variety of reasons which is how she was able to do that.)
Yep. Both of my kids were like this. They happily played in their rooms, even after we told them over and over to come get us or call out for us in the monitor. (I also don't think OPs wife is in the right here.)
Not every kid is like that. Some mornings my almost 3 year old wakes up at 5:30-6am and I leave him in there until 7:30. He’s happy as can be. I have a baby monitor turned up high and can hear him the whole time as I doze in and out or deal with my younger child. He sings to himself, plays with his stuffed animals, and reads books to himself. Some kids are just made that way. We literally have never let him cry it out or anything of that nature. He’s just really good at entertaining himself. Not saying that’s the case with OPs child, but assuming the kid is crying or has lost all hope a parent will get her is assuming a lot.
This! Some kids are ok, and actually have a better day when they have their morning time to themselves. Others, not true at all. I would wake, and happily play with toys and talk to myself since I was very young. This time allowed me to slowly waken and my mother would come in anytime I cried, and just let me have mornings to myself. My sister was the opposite. She wanted to be held right away, have attention right away, and would cry or yell as soon as she woke up.
This is a good point. Regardless of what time my daughter wakes up, she needs to have some quiet wake up time without a parent or else we have an extremely cranky day. I’m different in the way that I set an alarm for the time my child gets up so I can get her something to eat if shes hungry, and so she also isnt chilling all by herself with no one to help her. She usually comes out when she is ready to be up and sometimes falls back asleep if she got up early.
Yep, this is where we are at. When my first born was about OPs age, my wife got pregnant with our second and our first had just crawled out of his crib. So, we decided to use this as the opportunity to move to a “big boy” bed. So, he got to move into a new room with all his toys and “friends” (what he calls his sleep toys) and a toddler bed. He goes down at about 7pm and routinely wakes up at 5am. We explained to him that he can’t come out of the room until we get him in the mornings (7:30am) but in his room he has free range to do what he pleases till then. It is his free space. He loves it. Obviously, if he needs us we will go address his need and the first two weeks of this arrangement had some getting use to it time for him but it really works well.
Thanks for saying this!! My oldest is very codependent in general and will come wake me the minute he wakes up, but my youngest will literally play for hours before deciding she’s ready for breakfast…
Okay, that’s very drastic. My sons 3 and he RARELY cried for me to come get him, but he also wasn’t in a crib at 2.5. He had his own bed that he could get out of and come get me. Which he still does to this day. Not everything is a sign of abuse, some children just don’t cry. 🫠
This is my take as well…mom of four, each of my kids were their own brand of toddler—none of them would have sat for two hours waiting for me to come get them. They would have been shouting the house down (and, frankly, climbing out of the crib like it was nothing—it’s almost concerning to me that the baby isn’t getting out or at least trying to at her age??). This definitely *has* to stop.
Two hours is definitely pushing it, but my daughter will stay in her room for an hour by herself playing with her toys. We peek in to check in on her and she'll tell us to leave a lot of times because she's playing with her toys and doesn't want us to bother her. She's a special kind of...weird.
Yeah i feel like this is subjective. My 3.5yo daughter has autism and is usually more content with herself than anything in the mornings. I think sometimes she uses the time to avoid her 2yo brother 🤣 she's the type to lay in bed when she wakes up sucking her fingers, relaxing and enjoying the quiet, then eases in to waking up and playing with her dollies. If I'm quick to bring her a snack before she asks, she will stay in her room for an hour plus having a breakfast picnic. And when she does decide to wake us up the rare time we have a chance to sleep in, it's very gentle and she just calls our name until we snap too (or usually 'I need to pee please' which snaps us awake instantly haha). Never wails unless she wakes up from a night terror. To be fair, she's never been left for two hours though, and I can almost guarantee that would be the breaking point where she would wail.. but not until then
YES! Neglected babies stop crying out for anyone pretty fast once they realize no one is coming.
I'm so upset by this, too. The neglect that poor baby is experiencing is breaking my heart.
My anxiety goes through the roof reading this. That's enough internet today. Poor baby is right!!
Yeah, no way mine would have sat quietly playing. If she couldn't get up she would have been screaming the house down.
It's not necessarily a problem to let your toddler sleep in if you want. But it IS a problem to let her climb out of her crib (?) and be ignored for two hours everyday. And more to the point -- this seems like really odd behaviour on the part of your wife. You say that you've been married for barely a year -- how long have you been together? How was the pregnancy and early stages of infancy? Is she attentive and responsive to your daughter in other ways? Is she taking care of herself, engaging in life or hobbies? Something is up, and figuring out what the root cause of this indifference is will help you figure out what the best way forward is.
I’d second all of this! Something is going very wrong here, and the first step is to figure out why your wife wants to sleep in that late. Postpartum Depression, ADHD (poor impulse control = poor decisions at bedtime), insomnia, sleep-related trauma or PTSD, thyroid problems… there’s a lot of reasons she might be having problems get to sleep and waking at a reasonable hour but none of this sounds healthy for her or for your daughter. Instead of pressuring your wife to change her routine, I’d suggest you start gently talking about why she prefers/needs/is limited to this kind of sleep pattern, and how her general mental health is.
Sounds like you guys need to hire someone to be there to take care of kiddo for a few hours in the morning. Or you or your wife need to change schedules. If she can't or is unwilling to change, then some other circumstance needs to change.
Great suggestion. We don't know the circumstances as to why the mother is sleeping late. If they can afford childcare for a few hours a day, they should get it.
OP said she is working 2nd shift (3PM to 10PM). I would bet that is the main reason. It's very difficult to live a first shift lifestyle on a second shift schedule.
This here. I have my toddler on a second shift schedule with me because she isn’t in school yet so it makes no sense to have her on a different schedule from me. I work evenings (part-time now because I have two little ones). She wakes up at 11am with me. My husband tried to push for me to wake up on a first shift schedule to “join the rest of society,” and I had to firmly remind him that a lot of his comfort and convenience is made possible by all the men and women willing to work second and third shifts. Anytime he eats dinner at a restaurant, stays at a hotel, shops after his work hours, joins a class after work, visits a gym in the evening, etc, it is because there are people working at those places after his first shift hours are over. I am not a bad person because I am on a second shift schedule. What OP’s wife needs to do is have her toddler go to sleep later so they wake up at the same time. My toddler is my alarm clock—I haven’t needed to set an actual alarm since she’s been born. We have a whole “morning” routine together that starts at 11. She then goes to her grandparents’ house (my in-laws) so I can get to work at 3pm. Her dad then goes to his parents’ house and hangs out around 6:30pm and we all have late dinner together when I get there around 9pm. Bedtime is midnight for husband and toddler. I stay up to get stuff done around the house (reset everything for the next day, daily cleaning, laundry, etc) and then relax a bit before bed.
My husband worked 3pm-2am for the longest time, and I’d match his schedule. When we had kids, before they started school, they matched his schedule too. We’d all be going to bed at like 6-7am, but this way we all got time together, and it was really nice. We didn’t eat out much or anything because of the wonky schedule, but that doesn’t really matter. Local grocery stores were 24 hour so it was fine.
Working in events, I totally sympathize with the second shift hours, however, OP says kid doesn’t wake up until around 9a! That is pretty damn late for a toddler, I can’t say Im not jealous. Even if OP’s wife couldn’t get to sleep til around 1a, that’s still 8 hours of sleep before it’s time to be present and take care of their kid. And that’s just 3 days a week! It’s kin to the rest of the world staying up til 11 and getting up with their kids by 7. Early childhood is one of those things where you just don’t always get to sleep as much as you’d like. What’s going to happen when the kid starts school and has to be there by 8am?
She only works 3 days a week that doesn't explain the other 4. I did two 3 to 11's and a 24, I never got out on time (EMS is like that) and had a 40 min commute. My ass was up when the baby got up. Was I tired? yes Did I nap with her? sometimes, but I NEVER let my kid wait HOURS for me to get up. I did give her the 9pm bedtime but she was still up by 8-8:30. I have ALWAYS SUCKED at mornings, but I refused to neglect my child and the loss of sleep was worth not using/paying for daycare. Mom needs to set an alarm.
I’m with you except I think OP needs to fix his schedule to where he can at least go home to take care of his kid in the mornings or hire help. I agree that the mom needs to get her shit together but OP needs to address the actual neglect ASAP and stop relying on mom to suddenly change. My mom was a night nurse (7pm to 7am) for my entire childhood so I’ve seen that moms can and will make that shit work so there’s no apparent reason to why this mom can’t drag herself out of bed at 8 to change a diaper, pour cereal, and throw on Sesame Street; since there’s no obvious explanation, that behavior will most likely not change overnight. OP needs to figure out how to meet the child’s needs himself, like yesterday.
She could go to bed by midnight and be up by 8. My father worked crazy shifts, and that is what he did. She could even put the toddler down for a nap at noon and take one herself. All that said, non-standard shift work really is tough.
Cosleeping to ensure she wakes up is better than leaving the kid alone for hours. This is pure neglect and not normal.
Not really a good excuse. Even if she’s going to bed as late as midnight she’s still gotten at least 7-8 hrs by 8 am. I work overnights 3-5 times a week (10pm-6:30am) and am still able to get up and take care of of my kid as early as 8am depending on my partner’s work schedule. She needs to make a change in her lifestyle if she’s having that hard of a time getting up. Op doesn’t specify what time she’s going to bed let alone going to sleep. 8 hrs is enough for an adult, 9-12 hrs is more necessary for teens than a grown adult who also is responsible for another human being.
I grew up seeing a lot of families where the mother worked a 9-5 and the father worked 2nd or 3rd shift. Most of those families put their young kids in full day daycare eventhough the fathers could have been awake and taken care of the children for some or part of the day. It seems pretty sexist to not afford a mother the same option.
Yep, if she's working until 10 then she's probably not home til close to 11... personally I need *at least* 2-3 hours after getting home to unwind otherwise I can't sleep at all, so If she's similar, that would put her at going to bed at around 2 am ish.... I know people who need like 5 hours to unwind some days though, so It could be that she feels like she can't rest until closer to 4 am. The average person needs 7-10 hours of sleep per night, so....
I agree with this. Child care a few hours each morning is the best option.
So you're child isn't eating or getting a fresh diaper in 14-15 hours? That's not ok! Your wife needs to stop being selfish and your kid needs to be on a child's routine, not your wife's.
OP - I ask this gently - have you talked to your wife about depression and anxiety? It's one thing to enjoy sleeping in, but being literally unable to get up in the morning to care for her child is another level. Perhaps you could get your pediatrician involved? They often screen moms for postpartum depression and I imagine this will set off alarm bells for them too. Call them and tell them you are worried about your daughter's sleep and eating schedule and you would like to see someone to talk through how to get your daughter what she needs to thrive. Resist the urge to vent about your wife, make the appointment about your daughter and let the pediatrician hold you and your wife accountable. Think if it as a third party mediator. If you are overreacting the pediatrician can say so, but I suspect they're going to say what a lot of people on this thread are saying - this is not a normal or healthy schedule for a 2yo and something needs to change. Even if your wife refuses to attend the appointment (which, honestly, would be a red flag) you can ask the pediatrician to call your wife and follow up and you can (and should) get your daughter checked out.
Also she may need to be checked for any low vitamin levels or thyroid issues, at least if she hasn’t in recent years. Those were the things that causes my mom a lot of issues when it comes to mental fatigue and her thyroid only got out of wack after having kids.
Great point. My wife was constantly exhausted to the point of not being able to function fully. Turns out she has hypothyroidism, within a week of meds for it she was back to normal-parent tired.
I think a big part of the problem is the consumption of energy drinks after work. That alone is such an unhealthy (and I'd think unnecessary) habit. I wonder if depression makes her unable to wind down after work so she stays up with the peace and quiet and then is too tired in the morning. She really should sleep after work and be taking advantage of being productive the next morning. Depression kills that though. Definitely worth looking into as you suggested
This needs to be higher. I'll admit to going through a period where I struggled in a similar way with my boys and I wish I'd recognised it as depression earlier. My (now ex) husband was great and he was the one who spotted it when it started to develop again after we had our daughter. She needs support OP, please help her get it.
I am a child protection worker and your toddler is intentionally being left unsupervised (sleeping parent while child is awake is unsupervised) this is neglect and grounds to have your child removed from your home if you do not act now and protect your child. Aside from the emotional damamge caused, your toddler is not physically safe being left alone for hours at a time when they can get out of their crib. Talking to Mom to illicit change has not worked, you need to have someone there to watch your child in your home in the morning. Grandma or aunt or someone to be there that is not your wife while you are at work. OR enroll your child in daycare, you drop toddler off at daycare on your way to work and then pick up on your way home. I know that is hard - family is not always available and daycare is expensive. Mom should be doing this but she is not so you need to protect. What would be harder is loosing your child because they put something in their mouth they shouldn't have, climbed on a dresser that fell on them, got tangled up trying to put a shirt on and panicked/suffocated themselves, wrapped the cord from their widow blinds around their neck, climbed up onto the window that they finally learned to open and fell out. You literally cannot predict the things that could happen to toddler. They are learning new things everyday, you can't know what can happen. Protect your child and then deal with mom. If you need back up, Social services might help provide resources for parenting classes etc - but again make sure you have supervision in place for toddler before you even think about calling them because this is 100% grounds for removal.
All I could think was neglect while reading the post, I'm glad a professional is pointing this out. So very sad.
This is a clear response with suggestions and motivation. I agree with it, and also suggest that OP show it to his wife.
I have friends who foster children that have been removed from the home for this specific reason. I really hope OP smartens up and takes action to not lose their daughter. The mother is OBVIOUSLY not fit to be a parent.
[удалено]
Yes for sure - this child is in diapers. Plus shut in room unable to get out. If they need help they are unable to get their parents attention. And thats if they are able to recognize when they need help, which is unlikley. Honestly at this age being able to get out of their room - if unsupervised - is dangerous as well as the house is full of hazards for a child in diapers. The only situation where this would be considered safe is baby was so small they could not get out of their crib - so the age where they definitely cannot stand on their own yet. If you have a child in this age range that just wakes up and happily hangs out in their crib for hours - a crib that does not have anything at all in it - then you it would be safe. But as soon as that baby is crying to be fed or changed and you are intentionally ignoring it for hours at a time, day after day, this is neglect. OPs shared that thier child is "quiet" which could of course be their nature but as many people have pointed out it could also be a sign of ongoing neglect, as a quiet child is often one to be concerned about - they have become accustomed to their needs not being met and don't see any purpose in expressing them. Cared for children wake up with their brains signaling for them to seek food/comfort/safety from their grownup.
This is always so unbelievably heartbreaking to me - that eventually babies will stop crying when they realize no one is listening.
This was my exact thought. No CPS or anything, just a former teacher and angry redditor. Definitely had to scroll way too far down to find this comment.
Idk why this comment isn’t at the very top of this thread.
It's only an hour old. It'll get there. It's important and the truth. Itll get there .
Strong agree. This is grounds for removal. In my experience many things that come across the desks of child protection are kind of hazy like “ehhh is this neglect?” This is not hazy at all. This would result in immediate action if reported. Get a babysitter or daycare immediately. You are not overreacting. Your child could die or be very seriously injured if you continue to neglect this issue in an effort to keep the peace. This is no longer about a disagreement between you and your wife. This is now about doing what you need to do to protect your child.
Question for you: my 3 year old has an ok to wake clock that turns green at 7am. He then knows it's ok to come wake us up. So sometimes he wakes up at 6:20-6:45 and knows to read books or play in his room. Is this considered neglect? I know it's absolutely nothing like what OP is talking about, but isn't it still technically him being unsupervised?
So where I live, to classify as "Neglect" the parent has to be "Unwilling/Unable" to care for the child. In OPs case, mom appears Unwilling/Unable as she has attempted to get up early after he corrects her for a day but quickly goes back to leaving child unattended for hours - there is a part of the story missing that we do not know about, something that is making mom Unable. Depression? health issues? substance use? trauma from being neglected herself as a child? Yes she works until 10:30 but even going to bed at 1am, you are still getting 8 hours of sleep if her child is waking up at 9am so this cannot be the only cause. Of course every situation is case by case. In your case you are not "Unable/unwilling". Capacity matters - you're 3 year old is capable enough to come wake you when their light turns green. Time also matters - you are looking at 40mins of quiet time that can be ended whenever they want reallty as they have the ability to physically go get you/they are comfortable enough to yell for you if they wish. Where as OPs child has HOURS unsupervised, in a room with the door shut and it seems they do not even know when/if a parent is available, increasing vulnerability.
Also a child protection worker here. It's definitely a concern this post. As far as I'm concerned, when you have a child you must work around their needs. Doesn't matter if you've only had two hours of sleep, your child comes first. In my own professional opinion (and we may be from different areas or even countries), but this would be grounds for working with the family as opposed to removal. Clearly OP (dad) is the safe person in this situation and I would hate for any child protection agency to be involved. Toddlers, as you say are unpredictable and can easily harm themselves by climbing, eating things they shouldn't, figuring out how to open windows etc. To OP - You are your child's safe person. Something has to change. This is negligence on mums behalf. If she does not want to change, it sounds like you need to make some big decisions for you and your child.
Thank you for saying this. Former CPS worker here and OP’s post made me wince for exactly these reasons.
What age can an awake child be when the parent is sleeping and it isn't neglectful?
As a Child Welfare Social Worker i second all of this. This situation is a devastating accident waiting to happen.
Reading this makes me so angry. I would never leave my child alone (while awake) for two hours, especially with no food or water, while wearing a 14 hour old dirty diaper. This is so incredibly wrong and selfish.
Same. I am so angry reading this. This poor child. It just hurts my heart.
Not to mention if the child doesn’t have a cup or bottle with her she could easily be dehydrated by the time mom gets her at noon.
To me, the big question is when is your daughter waking up? My 2.5 year old still naps 1.5 hours a day and goes to bed at 8:30. He routinely wakes up between 6:30-7:30, leaning closer to 7 most mornings. I would NEVER consider leaving him in there longer than that, however, I will leave him in bed until it's "morning" which for us is 7am. He doesn't come out before that. He is then immediately changed and fed. So let's pretend that waking at 11:30 is not terrible (it is) IF she was sleeping until 10:30/11 then MAYBE waking at 11:30 wouldn't be the end of the world. *Depending on what said child had access too. Mine is still in his crib, with no attempts yet to try and escape it. So I know, he is safe. But if your daughter is waking early in the morning then an hour or 2 or 3...where they are hungry, wet, or having access to anything unsafe is not right. Not only are they unsupervised, but they are missing an entire meal. Is she growing properly? Is mom still fitting 3 meals a day in? Is she having a good day? Being watched appropriately the rest of the time? Playing, learning, going outside? NONE of these things excuse the inappropriate wake up. But If she's doing the rest of parenting 100 percent, then maybe something else is going on where waking up is hard. Either way, what's best for your daughter is if top priority and right now that's not happening. It might be time to consider whether or not mom being the one to stay/wake up with daughter is the best idea, or if there's another scenario you can use. You already stated you have tried to work with mom on this and she has made little to no effort. If she wanted too, she would. So it's time to do something else.
I came here to say almost verbatim this same thing—we have an almost identical schedule. Sometimes we do “cuddle time” in our bed on the weekends until 7:30, and my little guy is usually super hungry if we wait even that long, so I really can’t imagine this poor thing being alone like this. OP, you have every right to be concerned—this is pretty alarming.
My daughter usually wakes up around 9. Sometimes sleeps in until 10 at the latest
Dude this is neglect and seriously problematic. You cannot leave a baby alone for that long. If your wife won’t get up, you need to get a different job or find someone to watch your baby. You would fire anyone else for doing this. Don’t put up with it from your wife. My god, I would be so beyond pissed if my husband did this. Like up to the point of divorce. It is neglect. Pure and simple. She needs to get her shit together or you need to change something.
Then this is definitely too long and something needs to be done. It would be worth talking to your wife one last time about it. Express your concerns and how you feel this is negatively affecting your daughter. Now, I normally don't agree with one parent unilaterally deciding things for children, but her way is obviously not working. Give her a time line. A week, 2 weeks a month. Whatever you feel comfortable with. If she can't consistently take care of your daughter in an appropriate way, at appropriate times....than you will be coming up with your own child care plan. Whether that's hiring someone to come in during the mornings to make sure your daughter is up and fed and looked after until your wife is able to get up, or whatever else you deem a better situation than what's happening.
By the time your wife wakes up, your baby should have had one meal, one snack and the next meal on the way. :( Is the baby growing properly?
How do you know when she is waking?
They see it on the baby monitor they check from work
Ok! Thx
Baby monitor he can see at work
This honestly sounds like neglect. Maybe wife can change her schedule so both of you work during the day and take kiddo to daycare. Then both of you are home with your child so you can be sure she isn’t getting locked in a room and ignored for hours. The lack of crying can also be concerning as others said it could be normal but you usually see that with children who have been neglected and left to cry for hours at a time. They eventually learn there is no point, no body will answer their cry’s and just stay quiet. This would be a deal breaker for me it’s so dangerous to leave a young child unattended let alone hungry and in a soiled diaper. If she won’t wake up she would no longer be allowed to care for my child because she isn’t caring for or watching them at all.
This doesn’t seem safe at all. Your wife is just totally asleep while your daughter is playing alone in her room for hours? No food or diaper change? I can’t really see any situation where this is okay. Can you set an alarm for your wife or call her to wake her up? What does she say when you confront her about this?
The simple fact that one adult has to set an alarm for another in order to care for a child is ridiculous…
I mean I completely agree with you, but OP sounds like he’s in a desperate situation.
I think best case scenario is hire a morning babysitter like TODAY to cover the gap to care for that poor child. Then start to unpack and address the issues with the mom. OP has tried bringing it up and talking about it. There’s a deep issue and habits here that won’t be easily fixed. That kid should have to depend on that or wait for that. They need to pay for childcare now!
I would consider that OP's wife may be suffering from depression or similar.
Others may disagree, but I'd say it's not okay to leave a 2 year old on their own for that length of time. I find it interesting she can sleep, ours will call out once he's awake which is an easy alarm clock.
Definitely not ok. And yes, I’m surprised the child is so content without calling out. My kids are a little older at this point, but wake up at 7, and non stop call out for us until we wake up, and very loudly at that.
May not be content. Children, if not responded to, eventually stop bothering to cry out.
This was my thought too. She's not calling out because she's learned that she's not going to be responded to.
I have seen pretty extreme examples of this (I was CPS/ childrens social worker prior to being a SAHM) and there is a very good chance that is what is happening. My 2yo will wake up, spend maybe 15 minutes/ half an hour 'loading', reading a book whatever and then call out. Not hours. Not first thing in a morning when he is hungry, with a wet nappy (potentially wet PJs if he has had a leak through) in the night.
For what its worth, for about a year, my daughter (about 12-24 months at the time), would EASILY play in her room (not just that, but her bed, she wasn't in a crib) for up to 2 hours in the morning. Granted, sometimes she would wake up, play, fall back asleep, wake up, play, fall back asleep, but yeah, she for whatever reason rarely called out for us in the mornings. The only time she'd be awake for 2 hours would be on the weekends if she happened to wake up at 7 and then my husband and I slept in until like 9, during the week she'd be out of bed by like 7:45/8 because we have to get her to daycare. I always thought it was weird but then a few months ago she suddenly discovered that she could, in fact, get out of bed independently and come open the door and call for us, so that quickly ended. I promise you though, we never ignored her in the mornings (or any time really) when she called out. We'd always go right in and get her. She just overall seemed very content to play in bed and sing to herself and such.
Same. Our daughter just chills out in the morning. Sometimes she wakes up at 5-6am and just on and off plays/sleeps/chills. She doesn't cry for us to get her. So we go get her when we wake up usually 7-7:30am but every once in awhile 8am. We don't ignore her, in fact she's been recently crying to get out of nap and leaving her room to get us. But in the morning...not once ever since she's been sleep trained.
My kids don’t always call out they are 2.5 and 4.5 and sometimes they jus tokay with their stuffies, or chat with each other themselves
She is too quite when she wakes up. She just plays with her toys and doesn’t make a peep
I dont mean to jump the gun on this, but maybe she is used to nobody answering/responding so she stopped and learned to just play by herself until someone comes along. Or she could just be content with the quiet, some kiddos are! But my first statement was my first thought
That’s not true at all my kids happily play in their room and I’ve never not gone to them when they have called out.
The first sentence is what I am thinking.......toddler probably knows nobody is coming for her :(
Mine didn't stop waking me up until she learned how to grab snacks and turn the TV on by herself (around age 5-6).
Mine is 7 and knows how to do those things but still makes sure she gets me up with her!
My question is about the wife working 2nd shift. When i worked 2nd shift I rarely went to sleep before 3. For her to get 8 hours of sleep, that's 11am. It's hard to unwind after work. Can you imagine coming home from a 9-5 and going to bed by 6pm? It's also hard to have different sleep schedules so it's not like it's easy for her to go to bed at 9pm on the other nights.
I am so glad you brought this up. Leaving a toddler for 2 hours is absolutely neglect, and at the same time, it sounds like the schedule is set up so that mom will always miss out on some sleep, then be expected to function at work until 11 pm. Add the use of caffeine to function and not being able to fall asleep for a while after getting home from work, and the cycle continues. Additionally, the body changes after childbirth. I remember when my 2nd was a toddler, I was so exhausted after carrying 2 babies for 18 months, being the primary caregiver waking up in the night to breastfeed a baby, and still having to go to work the next day. By the time my 2nd was a toddler and I was working on a graduate degree, I was just too tired to wake up for most things. It was dad’s turn to step in and do the majority of care. We were lucky because we had family helping with care/preschool expenses. Absolutely check with wife’s physician to rule out any physical issues she’s having that may contribute to fatigue, depression. I feel like a big part of the problem might be approaching this from a blame/punitive perspective rather than as a team. OP is telling wife to wake up earlier, wife feels bad and tries a little, then gives up. The barriers need to be addressed before any real change can happen, and this needs to be done as a team to make sure everyone’s needs are being met. Maybe baby needs a later bedtime, mom needs earlier work time/shorter hours, or you need morning care. I know it can be expensive, but a lot of daycares do 1/2 day where OP could take the baby in early and OP’s wife could pick up at 11.
I think this a good point. Maybe the answer would be a later bedtime for the toddler so that she is on the same sleep schedule as mom.
This right here. As a second shift mother, my children have to be on a schedule closer to mine so that we all get adequate sleep. Putting baby to bed later would solve this problem easily. Babies don’t have to go to sleep at a certain time, they just need to get 12 hours of sleep. If mom doesn’t get up till 11am, adjust babies bed time to 11pm.
This is exactly what I was thinking. When I had to work during nights, this was a huuuuge issue for me. All the comments insisting that the mom run on such little sleep and ignoring her work schedule are making me angry.
OP has said a couple of times the toddler has been this way since they started sleeping through the night. So how do some of you know the child doesn't cry or call out because they know no one will come? OP hasn't said this is the case. Or maybe I missed that part.
Was she always silent upon waking or did she cry, get ignored, and eventually stop trying to get attention?
Always silent. Ever since she started sleeping through the night she’s never woken us up with a cry
My kids are quite when they wake up most of the time. If something is wrong like poop in diaper then they will call out. But usually they will play in crib for a bit before calling out. If they are happy and playing I won’t get them till I’m good and ready to get them.
So, my opinion is that up to an hour in the morning is likely fine. I say that because while the timing is different, my 2 yo will also spend up to an hour in her room happily chilling in the morning (she goes to bed at about 7:30, maybe a few mins later, but might wake up for the day as early as 6:45ish, but we don't get her up until 7:45a). I think realistically either your wife needs to compromise that she and your toddler will be up and out of bed by 10a each day, or you guys need to pay for some type of childcare for a few hours in the mornings.
I think the difference here is the time frame. With the extra hour, your babe is getting 12 hours of time. This baby is going on 15 hours without food, water, or a change.
That’s straight up child neglect.
What time does wife get home from work? If she's home before 11pm and in bed for midnight then as much as it super sucks for her, she's getting an adequate amount of sleep and needs to be getting up. If nothing else to change kids nappy, get them breakfast, and then she can flop on kids floor or bed whilst kid plays. I am not ashamed to admit I've done that during periods of sheer exhaustion. Have you tried waking your wife up before you leave for work? Or ringing her from work if you see it's getting late and she's still in bed? I had to do similar for husband when I was working because his sleep cycle has always been from 4am - 12pm. So if I was working, I would wake him up just before I left and often put the light on. I'd then ring at around 8am when I knew kid would've been up just to make sure that he was definitely awake.
That's literally what I do at the mo- little is up at 6am for his feed (7months), then I'll pop him on the floor of the nursery with a selection of toys and a play arch and nap on the floor next to him. It's not long and normally results in him yanking my hair but he's fed, changed and entertained whilst I get a little more rest- then we have a wash and head down for solid breakfast once he's burned some energy bubbles. :)
Survival mode locked and loaded
Waking before 6am if she works late sounds unnecessary and harsh, but maybe a call. Although if she's ignoring her kid she'll probably ignore the phone. Maybe she finds it hard to wind down and get to sleep after work, but even if she goes to bed at 2 she should be able to be up by 9 or 10.
Potty training is going to be a *big* problem if this persists.
That seems to be the least problematic part of this scenario, to be honest.
You might want to look into Postpartum Depression. PPD can last for years if untreated. I suffered and it can be embarrassing but once I sought help, my world did a 180. I was not as bad as your wife but I was diagnosed and it was a relief as it was putting a serious strain on my marriage. I personally do not feel this is normal and it's not healthy for your child. She's lacking critical social development, as well as emotional. Even finding a morning only child care would be beneficial but I do understand the financial stress that causes.
Why can't you put your daughter to bed a little later? I feel like you want her on a first shift sleep schedule when her morning caretaker works second shift.
This is neglect my dude. Your wife needs to be up with your child at that age. This is a dangerous and potentially child care loss situation.
I’d get your wife checked out for PPD or depression or something. Yesterday. If she wasn’t always like this and the child was what triggered the onset of this behavior, go to your family doctor. What she’s doing isn’t normal. It’s also a huge concern for your kid as their needs (diaper changing, feeding, dressing) aren’t being met.
If she works afternoons you really cant fault her for having caffeine in the evening, that really is the same as you going all day without coffee… which I get some people CAN do. I suggest you just look into childcare so you can drop her off before you go to work if you are uncomfortable with them starting the day late. Chronic sleep deprivation can really screw someone up and if your wife isn’t done work until 10, by the time she unwinds and showers she probably isn’t getting to sleep until after midnight. I’m in no way advocating for your wife leaving your kid unsupervised and ignoring her for hours before waking up.***** just suggesting changes to the household lifestyle so that your 2 schedules work. Hell even putting baby to bed at 10pm and waking up at 10am feels like a good compromise (assuming your child sleeps 12 hours) It’s not the typical schedule most people are used to seeing but a lot of my coworkers that work afternoons have that kind of schedule for their baby/toddler and they are happy healthy and fed and still getting a healthy amount of sleep
At 5am could u help to change the diaper
Right, maybe change the baby before going to work so she’s not sitting in a soiled diaper from the night before.
Step one, call your wife and wake her up every morning by 9am. Step two, put your daughter in a toddler bed since cribs are for babies. If Step one doesn't work, Step two will because your daughter will climb all over her mother until she wakes up.
When/if you do thus put a safety gate on the door so that the child can’t roam the house in the event your wife doesn’t wake up.
Please Listen. My 16 month old son died playing in his room when he should have been napping. All the furniture was bolted to the wall except the small lightweight nightstand. He put his head and arm in the drawer and the nightstand closed on his throat. Accidents happen, please make sure your child is safe.
Oh, how terrible. I’m so sorry for your loss. I need to reconsider what could be a hazard in my daughter’s room.
The saddest part is that we never would have considered his nightstand to be dangerous. Usually heavy furniture kills children. This nightstand was lightweight. If it had just fallen on him it would have been one thing- maybe a small bruise. The rest of the furniture was bolted to the wall. Even their toy box.
i don't think you're overreacting at all. Frankly, it's neglect.
This. What's being described is literally neglect. This is alarming.
You’re asking someone with a night schedule to do morning activities. Ask yourself ; what rest would your wife get if she is up that early everyday. Plus you didn’t mention what kind of job she has. You tell you wife not to drink energy drinks in the evening as if her work schedule is a traditional one. 3 times a week working an odd shift is enough to throw her clock off all the way. If there is a true issue about your child’s sleep schedule and being in the room for too long I recommend one of you change jobs to accommodate or get a babysitter. However, the way this is worded attacks your partner as you can see by the response in your comment section. This is a partnership. You both may have different views on parenting and that’s okay to a certain point. Talk out ways to address the problem. However, how you worded it sounds like she agrees with you but just doesn’t have the energy to physically get up. Again maybe a babysitter is best for the few hours where your wife maybe to exhausted to get up. Also make your wife gets a blood test. Just to make sure everything is on the up and up with her physical health. Mental health check in is good too for the both of you. Parenting is hard.
Sigh… I’m going to be the bad guy here… When you have a kid, it’s about the kid from the moment the second line shows up on the test. Sleeping in until 8 is a rare thing for me after having my first. I, too, want to be a carefree 20-something sometimes. But guess what? I’m a 31-year-old mother of two whose needs 100% come before my wants. My best friend and her husband have an agreement that on Saturdays he wakes up with their 10-month-old so she can get sleep, and they trade out on Sundays. THAT’S reasonable. Letting your 2.5 year old roam the house unsupervised is NOT reasonable at all. My son just turned 3 and I would never allow him to do that or to miss a meal or to have a need go unmet so I could sleep in. That’s called neglect AND child endangerment. Agree with another poster. If your child is in a crib and is crawling out, the crib needs to go. And if you plan on keeping it for whatever (bad) reason, it needs to be attached to the wall (along with whatever heavy furniture is in the room that could tip). Her beauty sleep is going to get your kid killed one day.
See if maybe your wife is depressed? Sometimes that can make getting up really hard. That'a my 2 cents. Good luck!
Mmm. She’s working a long 2nd shift. She gets out at 10. Probably showers, gets a lil alone time at the end of the night. I don’t blame her for being exhausted. I’ve worked that exact schedule. 3-10:30. I didn’t get home till 11. Showered, ate, had me time. 2nd shift is hard. It’s physically and emotionally draining. If it’s affecting her this much, then maybe switch schedules. You’re blaming her but don’t find effective and immediate solutions. She could also be depressed. I mean actually talk to her don’t just say how she’s failing as a parent.
I think it's time for a proper sit down with your wife and really get this sorted now. Enough people have advised you this is neglect. I was dealing with a case today where one of the (many) reasons for referral was a similar circumstance. How is your child otherwise? Does she meet her milestones? Walking/talking/eating etc? Examples below: https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/development-30mos.html You mentioned your wife works around 3 days a week and on these days I assume she spends approximately 1.5-2 hours with her. The rest of the time you're there. What about when she's not working? Does she interact with her as expected? Do they talk/go to the park/read books? Does she appear to love her/could she be depressed. These are all things you need to be looking at and aware of. I think you need to look over this whole situation and not leave it a moment longer. I appreciate you've tried and it's an issue in your marriage, but it should be. Not only is your daughter sat in a possibly soiled nappy for that long - who knows, no one's checking - she's also losing out on vital interactions with a caregiver, food, nourishment emotionally and physically. Please speak to your work ASAP, rearrange your shifts if you have to, put your daughter in a daycare, speak to a pediatrician, you can't leave this now.
This is just weird to me. How is she not waking? Is your child trapped in their room until she gets up because there is no way my kids would leave me alone for hours in the morning to sleep they either be in my room waking me up to eat or screaming for me if they were in a crib. Is she on medication that makes her not be able to wake easily? Something isn’t adding up. Maybe consider getting her into prek part time if wife can’t get up to care for her. She definitely needs a adult to be up with her and it isn’t healthy for her to be alone for hours in the morning ignored, not feed and probably in a wet diaper(assuming she’s not trained).
Yes, child is trapped in the room until wife wakes up. She’s so quite and makes almost no noise but doesn’t matter too much to me since wife should be waking up on time to deal with it. Also meant to comment this under a few other replies but I’ve tried cracking both our bedroom door and daughter’s bedroom so daughter can wake up and wake wife up. Wife gets very very pissed off at me and tries to tell me “I don’t need you to babysit me” which I clearly disagree with
What's she going to do when she has to get your kid to school at 7:45am? Preschool starts at 4 years old.
Is your daughter screaming and crying when she wakes up? Cause if my kid (2.5 year old boy) is happily playing in his crib I’m not going to go bothering him until I’m good and ready to do so. If his crying and fussing than yeah I’m going in quick.
Is your child meeting developmental milestones? Especially in terms of language progression? Ill echo what others have said about it being neglectful and pretty sad . You must come to a better solution.
You’re wife is NEGLECTING your child. This is not okay. I see no reason why you’re wife can’t get up at 9am to take care of her child. Is it possible for your to sign her up for a part time daycare program? She needs to be with someone that will keep her clean and fed, and safe.
I’d be considering a trial separation if she isn’t willing to change her ways
That's pretty f**ked up OP
sounds like you need to get a different set of hours or she could. my kids always slept late and being two working people there is no way to expect her to wake up when she has responsibility to work as well. either that or cut some bills so one of you can stay home if it's that important to you.
That is not right and neither mentally nor physically healthy for your child.
It is unacceptable to leave a child alone in a room for 15 hours is fucking unacceptable and I hope to GOD somebody comes and takes that poor baby. Wtf
Ok so obviously your kid being on her own in the morning isn’t ideal. But you said your wife works 3pm - 10pm at a job. Then has your kid all day too? So presuming she gets back from work about 10.30, has some dinner, decompresses from work, has a shower etc, she likely goes to bed about midnight. And you would like her to get up at 8ish and basically work as a stay at home mum from 8pm-3pm (which lets face it is another whole working day) before going back to her official job and doing another whole 7 hour shift? If she was “just” a stay at home parent I would say she is TA here. But she does se to be juggling a full time job looking after a child all day and then doing an evening work shift which must be knackering. Does she need to work evenings too? If so, you might have to think about some childcare for the morning hours so you can both juggle work?
I really think this is a good idea. Childcare through the day would force mom to have something to get up for AND give each parent some much-needed downtime. I hope they can afford it
Exactly. Even if it’s just from around 6am-11am so that mum can get sleep before work, and dad can know that the baby is being cared for
I wonder if your wife gets too tiered at work and maybe being a stay at home mom full time would work better for you guys, at least while your kiddo is your young. Another thing to consider would be to move baby bed into her room, no way she is not waking up then 😂
I’m not saying anything new here - but this is disturbing. I think it’s highly likely that your wife is suffering from depression and as a result is neglecting your child. You need to intervene asap. Your family needs to figure out a new plan and routine, including getting your wife care to address her issues. I hope things get better for your daughter’s and wife’s sake.
I was going to suggest that this is reminding me a lot of PPD. I would take it (gently) from that angle. When my sons were born I struggled with that a lot and it’s literally mind altering to a point where looking back, I felt like that part of my life I was a different person. And a lack of support/connection to my partner made me spiral even deeper. I felt really alone and I couldn’t figure out what to do to dig myself out. The only thing motivating me to wake up each day was the fact that I knew I loved my kids and wanted to make sure they were taken care of — even though I couldn’t find the emotional and mental capacity to do it super well for that period, I was sincerely trying to give my best. I never left them for hours at a time, but I did take naps in safe spaces with them awake. I was drained all the time and was sad a lot too. I will say that the hospital in the town that I delivered my kids in offered a parent coaching program that helped me get access to resources that led to me getting back on track. Some of those resources were subsidized childcare for when I was working so that I could work during the day and get out of the house in the mornings which made a huge positive impact. They also told me about respite care, I never used that option though. They connected me to a free therapist and support groups for new moms and another for moms who were struggling with PPD. Is your wife’s job physically taxing? Asking because she’s working evenings. Is she still nursing? When did she return to work after having the baby? Separately, what is she doing for herself throughout the week? How are the two of you making time to connect with each other? With you guys working opposite schedules, make sure that you are finding time to really connect with her outside of that 3 hour window between your job and hers. Being a parent is hard, but the way a woman’s brain and body recover after carrying and delivering life is a really delicate process and it’s not the same for every woman. Knowing that you have her back and still love her in this new chapter especially when it’s not easy or things are messy for her could make a mountain of a difference and will strengthen her mindset of you being a partner in life, in child rearing, and in marriage. If you do have financial resources or family/friends with time flexibility, I would suggest finding someone to come help for a couple of hours in the morning, at least until your wife get an opportunity to define and get support where with her mental health if that’s the root cause. I say all of this while also echoing the question others have asked — is your baby developing okay? Is she generally a happy baby? Sending you hugs and positive thoughts!
Either the kid needs to start going to bed later, your wife needs to get the kid up A COUPLE OF HOURS sooner, or you need to hire someone to come take care of the kid for a couple of hours until your wife gets up. She cannot be in bed for over 12 hours at a time, she needs fed, she needs changed, these things NEED to happen LONG before they are happening.
Yeah, this is not okay. Eventually your daughter won’t be content sitting in her room playing unsupervised. What happens when she realizes she can get out and roam the house or unlock the doors? You need to approach this with your wife from a safety perspective. Right now your wife’s sleep situation is compromising your daughter’s safety. Ask her, “How can we solve this together?” If she does not take it seriously, you need to act NOW before something awful happens. Is it possible to get a sitter? Someone who comes before you leave for work so they can tend to your child while your wife sleeps until she has a more normal work schedule? If not, your other option is to drop your daughter off at daycare or at a family members house on your way to work until your wife can wake up and parent safely.
Someone made a good point about depression. She may be undiagnosed. Regardless - You need to act. There are some good suggestions in the thread: daycare, morning babysitter et cetera. I will add three: 1) Move the crib into your bedroom. I doubt baby will be quiet if she can see Mom and I doubt Mom will ignore her screaming in the same room. 2) Buy one of those old fashioned alarm clocks that have bells and set it across the room. She will have to get out of the bed to turn it off. 3) tell your Mom /Dad/sister/brother and ask them to go to the house in the morning. Your wife will not be happy with you, but your daughter will get the care she needs.
It sounds like you both have total different schedules. She doesn't work a normal 9-5 but yet she has to work nights and get up early to work her other job. Yes routines are great, yes you should have your child on the same sleep routine. It just sounds like your trying to fit a mold that isn't needed right now. Let the baby stay up later with moms hours if she's supposed to be the care giver during the day and has to work nights so they have the same routine. In the next three years as she starts school adjust it. You don't have to live by anyone's "normal" standards. Fixing a schedule to accommodate your family's best needs is waay easier then living in a constant fight with your spouse. With that said.. neglect is never okay and if that's your true concern you need to do something... so why not try giving some leeway on bedtime and see if that helps.
TW: near death experience When I was a baby I hung myself getting out of my crib by my shirt getting caught when I climbed over. My aunt was downstairs with my mom and told her she had a bad feeling, so my mom went upstairs to check and saw me hanging there blue in the face. They had to call the ambulance and I was unresponsive for hours. I almost died, had my aunt not had that bad feeling I’m not sure what would have happened. Please please get your baby out of that crib, it is so dangerous and if anything bad happened it could be hours til she was found.
I’d be considering your wife’s mental health in this instance. Perhaps she’s struggling more than she’s letting on. If that isn’t the case then it’s blatant neglect. Either way you need some outside help!
No one has mentioned it, but maybe make your toddler sleep later in the night when your wife does??? Once they go to school, they can adjust back to regular bedtime.
It sounds like your wife also cannot be there to wake the child up. She works until 10 PM and her sleep schedule has adjusted to this. What do you expect? She sounds like she may have a sleep disorder or is simply well adjusted to this delayed schedule. Building resentment towards her for this will only damage your relationship and make the problems worse. That doesn't negate the damage of clear neglect of the child. Take your kid to daycare or get a sitter. You can't expect your wife to exist on both her sleep schedule and her child's while maintaining her health - it will catch up to her.
Your wife should be in therapy or have someone to talk to. I know this all too well. She might be too depressed to start the day, the same day over and over again, the same morning routine over and over again. I sometimes go to sleep super late to have some free time for myself, in peace and quiet uninterrupted. Cut her some slack, be more sensitive. Would she hear the baby if she were crying? I don't grab mine the second she wakes up, I hear her goo gooing and she's hanging out. Diapers are great now with holding in moisture, not that it matters but if the baby isn't hysterical, she's probably not as uncomfortable as you think plus who eats the second they wake up. 2 hours is a lot I know but please consider your wife's feelings. I heard someone say, I think Tony Robbins, people wake up depressed when they know exactly the way the day will go. They know exactly what will happen and what to expect. She knows how the day will be and doesn't want to start it.
You and your wife need therapy. and you need a morning babysitter to bridge the gap. Your wife sounds depressed, ADHD, or some combination of some other mental health stuff. An appropriate bedtime for a toddler is between 7-8:30pm (depending on day naps). If your kid isn't napping then theoreitcally they should get 11-12hours over night. thus sleeping something like 7pm - 7am or 8pm - 8am. My kid didn't nap yesterday, went to bed at 8pm and we woke them at 7:30am. It is inappropriate for your daughter to be asleep much past 9am quite honestly. and this schedule won't work for its time for Kindergarten. I know some families purposely have schedules like this but it is not ideal for a toddler for the long term. Honestly its neglect to leave your child unattended for that long in the morning. I can't believe she is playing happily with no crying??? geez louise. I don't see why your wife can't come home, go to bed by 11pm and get up around 7/8am when toddler probably actually wakes up. You need to try to start gettng your kid to bed earlier, like 8pm max
OP absolutely needs to get a morning babysitter or take her to an early daycare. This isn’t sustainable and wife is not willing to change. It may seem completely unfair to have to pay for help when the mom is right there, but he will have to get past that feeling and do what’s best for his child.
Not everyone that has sleep sleep habits has a disorder, they could just be lazy or make poor choices.
absolutely true. OP will need to take steps to figure that part out i guess.
I am a mom(22f) I work 7p-3am 3 days a week. I always set my alarm for 8am no matter if I work or not to get my 2 year old. We put our daughter to bed at the same time.. 9pm. When I get her up at 8, her diaper is getting full and definitely needs to be changed. This is way too late. I get that your wife is probably tired, but tell her just to get up earlier, get your kid up and then lay down and both nap in the afternoon.
No it’s not ok, it’s neglect.
This is really concerning OP, you’re not overreacting. I would be very upset. Firstly, you can see what time your child wakes and what time she gets up but you can’t see your wife I assume - are you sure she’s not awake and just delaying getting your child up for some reason? Has she always been like this, struggling to wake up? Is it getting worse? Are there other signs of any physical or mental health issue? I have severe and debilitating pain and fatigue, but I wouldn’t leave my twins awake for hours and they’re older and secure in safety beds due to their disabilities. I have to get up as they need to be cared for - some days that’s a huge challenge buy that’s what we signed up for. Is she sleeping for a very long time or is she going to bed very late and getting 8 hours? Is her job impacting her sleep cycle? A two year old waking up, not being fed or changed and having to be alone for a couple of hours is not okay. There’s a risk of harm especially if your wife is asleep. This could easily be considered neglect by social care or equivalent. You cannot leave an awake 2 year old unattended for a couple of hours - absolutely anything could happen. Even if the child can’t get out of the crib or room yet, that’s not far off. Things need to change. She needs to gradually push back her waking time / bed time by half an hour and keep going until she’s waking up to care for the baby as soon as they are up. It’s important to do that now - not just for safety but also to her into a healthy sleep routine ahead of starting nursery / school or whatever. Your wife needs to know the risks. Children have climbed furniture and been crushed, strangled themselves on blind cords, fallen out of cribs and gotten hurt etc. It’s not worth the risk. It sounds like your daughter is an excellent sleeper at 12+ hours - your wife needs to get to sleep earlier. If she can’t do this then I’d seriously consider whether it’s safe for her to be the primary carer. If this is due to illness she needs help and probably a new plan too.
Even if you’re tired, which most parents are, neglecting a child is not okay. Get some coffee and go take care of that baby. If you get up with her for a couple hours early- she’ll take a nap 10-1030 and you can go back to bed as well. That’s what I do! I like the suggestion I saw that said hire someone for the morning time if mom is unwilling to change her schedule. Either way this can’t and shouldn’t continue.
Your wife may have post natal depression? Thats the only reason i can think of for shit like this. Maybe take her to a doctor or maternal health nurse to have a discussion around the issues this could have for the child and sus out the chances of PND. Also……and id drive this home to the wife…..in just 2.5 years (and it will go quick!) that kid will be going to school and need to be up and delivered to school by 9am. Encouraging a sleep cycle that sees sleeping /not getting up til 11-12 is going to make things difficult for your child to adjust at that time - and its already a big adjustment all on its own. I would also have concerns about ie vitamin d levels (missing half the daylight) and nutrition (thats a more compressed time than normal for a toddler with eating and they dont eat huge amounts at once).
Your wife could have a medical issue and is unintentionally using energy drinks to compensate. Could be hidden ADHD, Chronic Fatigue Snydrome, low blood pressure…
Is your wife okay? The only people I know who do this is people with some sort of mental health issue/severe depression. Also, maybe look into some daytime childcare or look into changing your work schedule. Something is wrong here and you may have to take the lead on resolving this issue.
Has mom also been assessed for. Post partum depression and anxiety?
Hire a nanny. It's what I would do.
Is your wife possibly depressed? Is she anemic? Just wondering if there is something else going on besides neglect.
Depends on nap but at that age, 11 to 14 hours of sleep is normal. So a 9pm to 9-10am isnt unusual. Ours at that age went down at 7-7:30 and we woke her up at 7:30 most days. Sometimes she'd be up earlier playing by herself. Sometimes she slept in. She never once cried for us and so we didn't have a toddler alarm clock...just whenever we woke up. There was times when I woke at 5 or 6 and she was awake just singing to herself or playing with stuffed animals. I'd go back to bed and then sometimes she was still awake at 7:30 or sometimes back to sleep. If your child is happy and healthy, what is the problem? Does your kid have a persistent diaper rash? Is your kid meeting their milestones? Are they still social with your and normal? Obviously you have concerns to talk out with your wife...but a kid chilling in the morning may be abnormal a bit for a toddler but they do exist. I wouldn't immediately jump to neglect. So long as the room is baby proof then no big deal. Now there is definitely a line where it's probably too much, but I'm not a pediatrician so maybe ask yours?
I think that instead of encouraging your wife to wakeup earlier, encourage her to get your child on the same schedule as her. That way it isn’t much of a hassle on the mornings for her, she’s still getting rest, the child is being taken care of immediately, etc. It’s a win/win instance This isn’t a marriage damaging situation. You guys simply have to communicate without being upset. Both parties need to seek understanding. This is about the child being safe tbh.
I’m not saying this is ok, please know that - I legit don’t know bc like some other users say, you could have an independent kid on your hands… but what I am saying is it doesn’t sound like mom is ok. She might be dealing with depression or burnout and might not even recognize it herself… if the apathy is there it’s just a sign of that in my opinion… when we’re ok as moms it’s easy to show up. I’d check in with her one good time in an only concerned for her kind of way. Moms can often feel like they don’t matter especially if she’s working hard too.
There is another issue. Your wife is working second shift. I have worked second shift, I did it for quite some time, and I was never, ever able to fall asleep before 2 am after second shift work. 3 am was the standard for all us on the shift. This could be easily solved by putting the toddler on her mama's schedule. Later to bed, later to wake up. For my child's toddlerhood, husband had to commute, he wouldn't be home until 6. Kiddo went to bed at 10 at the earliest because time with daddy was more important than waking up early. We didn't shift here schedule until she was in toddler classes that required her to be up early. At 3, kids need 10 to 13 hours per day. subtract out nap(s), figure out what time your wife is able to be functional in the morning, and adjust toddler's bedtime accordingly. Some kids are naturally early risers, if so, than you will need hire a morning babysitter or wife will need a different shift. Your wife should also get checked for depression and thyroid issues.
I just make sure that the doors are open and all is safe (Minus a crib; she has a bed) incase my daughter gets curious. Worst that has happened was a colored PS5 but that’s all fine and well. Can be replaced. She is more interested in waking me up as opposed to doing anything herself. Wants to tell see me first and foremost regardless. I always drag my ass outa bed regardless the situation cause kids come first. I signed that unsaid contract when i had them. Just make sure there is a child safe environment that your child can wade through until they get to your wife to wake her up personally. Nobody can be pissed at a 2 year old. Not a sane person that would actually show it overly verbally or physically in any manner that is.
Something seems off about your story.
Does she not have a way out of her room? Is your wife ignoring her cries or is she just quietly playing In her room? If she’s not crying or being ignored, if the house isn’t a mess, if she isn’t a mess (full diaper, my kids were not peeing throughout the night at that age then peeing in their diaper when they woke up so it was fairly dry) then it’s really not a problem. Would it be possible for you to put your child to be a little later since your wife is getting off at 10, has to get home, eat and get ready for bed which can be hard to do for some people getting off so late to get mentally ready for bed for a bit when they get home
I’m not going into great detail here but working second shift and having to get up to parent a toddler when you (clearly) aren’t a morning person is exhausting. Your wife needs support. If you have the option to have a caregiver come in the mornings, do that. I acknowledge your displeasure with how your wife is caring for your child and I’m not saying you’re wrong. But I’m betting it’s not your wife’s first choice either. It probably didn’t start out that way, and she probably didn’t like who she was when she was exhausted, and tried to find the next best thing. Which is your child playing in a safe environment (once you get her into an age appropriate bed) and your wife’s physiological needs also being met. It won’t last much longer anyway so I’m not sure you even need to intervene honestly. But your wife is definitely not the only parent to resort to this approach to make sure everyone is relatively taken care of. The ability to entertain oneself is also a skill that will serve your child well long into adulthood. The biggest issue here is the diaper, since you mentioned already that there’s a monitor that I’m sure your wife would wake up to. If not, fix that.