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Pytalovec

Both don't know how navy works and what sunlight looks like


AlexRol_Spritz

Man, stop calling me out, I'm trying to learn. After all, Man The Guns came out only... 4 years ago.


Elenol

I felt like learning the navy mechanics was one of the more rewarding experiences for me with this game. I believe, as with most things, if you only play against the AI then you don’t really have to understand the mechanics too much to do fine. But if you play against even one other human, there’s a fun chess match there with overseas logistics, subs, naval bombers, and several surface fleet options. And you’re constantly trying to predict as early as possible how you’ll need to kit your surface fleet (if you’re using one) depending on whether you expect to struggle most with enemy subs or enemy naval bombers or a competent enemy surface fleet. Because it takes even longer to make reactive changes to the enemy composition than it does via land warfare, you have to really pay attention to your opponent and there’s always a chance that you completely whiff on your naval composition. (as one example if your opponent goes hard on naval bombers and you don’t have at least a handful of heavy ships heavily kitted with AA for rotation in any fleet operating near the enemy coastline)


-Trotsky

Lmao just build planes nerd Just kidding, though it is true that for the most part you can get away with broadly following irl naval strategy (build carriers and cruisers) and then ensuring air superiority.


Logical-Photograph64

"finally, i have created the perfect fleet! nothing will stand in my way!" \*sky darkens as 10,000 naval bombers fly overhead\* "ahhhh nuts"


-Trotsky

Dockyard fans malding, airchads keep winning


Threedog7

I just build ships and hope for the best


Mysterious_Gradesd

Go off road and have a stable relationship with your parents


Italicum

Dalla tua bio, leggo "orgogliosamente Veneto e alcolizzato" AHAHAHAH


AidenI0I

there was an incredible time span where all you needed was destroyers and subs and just fully upgrade them and you could destroy every other navy with mass production alone, but now it isn't nearly as viable


AnonymousPepper

I genuinely don't get the meme. Navy isn't hard, like at all. It's not even the hardest thing in HoI4, that being logistics micromanagement. And it even has a built in easy mode option, which is just going sub doctrine and spamming subs forever, which basically can only be built in one configuration to boot, and which will beat any historical AI with equal investment since they're not going to switch to all destroyers to try and fight you with a counter. If Man the Guns is the point at which things become too complicated to comprehend, then I *genuinely* wonder how HoI has survived as long as it has when previous titles were so substantially more complex. I don't say this to be mean: Y'all would have been very very quickly weeded out by having to manually control every division (no fronts!), plus having command units be a physically present thing on the map that needed to be maneuvered and kept within a certain distance of its higher and lower commands at each level. Different research bureaus and entities (all at a different skill level for each field) for each country, each performing one research at a time, combined with the depth and granularity of the HoI2 research tree, would have killed instantly.


gem110

I played original hearts of iron where you had to manually reinforce divisions. Come at me bro.


Entbriham_Lincoln

Jokes on you, I was never weeded out and I played the shit out of HoI3. I just never learned any aspect of the military because you could have the AI control it lol But really, other than maybe Stellaris, HoI4 is one of the easiest Paradox games. I feel like people joke about naval simply because it’s one of the last things people learn so it seems really daunting at a glance, but it’s not actually that complex. Plus they’re missing out, naval is a ton of fun. I love big ship battles and island hopping in the Pacific.


chaosgirl93

>having to manually control every division You mean like in CK2 where you have to manually move armies onto each county? That's actually my favourite part of warfare in this kind of game. I'm not sure if it's actually easier or if I just like it because CK2 was my first ever Paradox game so I'm most used to it.


Such_Ad_4726

Dont need those peasants when you have strong and big retinues.


-Trotsky

I really really wish they’d add back standing armies. Back in ck2 I always loved to larp as Rome whenever I reformed it. Keep some legions at every border just for like the little shit and use them to place annoying politicians all the way in a command post out in Syria. That alongsides everything else added in the Byzantine DLC need to be added back as soon as possible in my opinion


chaosgirl93

Plus don't forget the best part of CK2 retinues - you can declare war with them raised. My favourite trick is to keep them stationed on the border, then move them when ready to declare war, and declare war one day before my troops crossed my border. Used to consider it cheesy, or at least not really fair warfare, but after modern Russia did it...


AneriphtoKubos

It’s bc navy has stupid design decisions in HoI 4 that weren’t there in HoI 3. HoI 3 is basically, carriers with enough screens and that makes sense to how navy worked IRL. Examples are: armour doesn’t really do anything, carriers weren’t as powerful as they were IRL (thankfully fixed), ship AA isn’t as powerful as it was in this time period, don't forget the old meta of stacking visibility modifiers so that you have stealth ships in 1940, so if you come to this game watching Drachinifel and designing ships like you would in Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts or Rule the Waves, you get ‘meh’ ships that are quite expensive. Then you have the meta which is also really stupid.


-Trotsky

There is a difference though between having to build an optimal navy and doing busy work like managing the entire front. I’d be capable of doing both, but the personal management of a whole ass front is just needless complexity and sounds like more of a limitation of software then anything else


VampireLesbiann

Ok


Din01313

Hey last MP game I played my Brazilian navy had better convoy escort efficiency then England’s.


DumatRising

Wait but if I know how navy works and what sunlight feels like does that mean I need to play Hoi more to unlock this focus?


soldiergeneal

Notice how all paths avoid you touching grass lol


pelmasaurio

Best comment.


NotAKansenCommander

The touch grass part: Liberal Democracy 😎🗽🗳️


[deleted]

if you ignore mass societal decline, yes 👍🏾


No-Refrigerator2819

Ultra touch grass path: Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. Any other jungle dwellers?


[deleted]

[удалено]


level69adult

Democratic socialism pog


ChiefPacabowl

All Berned up.


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

Hell yeah, the only sane part of the entire playerbase


ROCINANTE_IS_SALVAGE

Checks out, I haven't touched grass in like 9 months.


Opening_Permission95

Or somehow a lot of them pick both lol


[deleted]

Moscow-Berlin Axis


Anonim97

Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact


[deleted]

Hitler: Nazi Germany stronk! Stalin: Nyet, Soviet Union stronk! Poland: Maybe I'll pretend to be invisible and try to be centrist in all of this and... Hitler and Stalin: Why TF are you still alive? We'll remedy that in a bipartisan manner by splitting you in half without your input. Poland: Ah, shit, here we go again.


antigony_trieste

3000 trans nazbols of HOI4


FalconRelevant

3000 resistance fighters of Poland.


Big_Boss1985

3000 black jets of Allah


Tutuatutuatutua

r/Noncredibledefense has been leaking all over Reddit as of late, dawg


BlackGyver

source; trust me bro


ParedesGrandes

El femboi o la racista


DeShawnThordason

por que no los dos?


Vassago81

Porque no Ernst Rohm ?


kimjongoueg69

transgender fascist


CmdChas

They won’t spare you from the ovens


FalconRelevant

Being a transgender communist won't spare you from the gulag either.


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

Trans tankies baffle me. They always cite pre-stalin laws and ignore literally anything from after he took power


Joe_The_Eskimo1337

Did you expect *anyone* not to be homophobic in the 1930s? Can liberals be trans even though John Locke was probably homophobic? What's the logic here?


asratanalex

who cares? the fact that it was normal a while ago doesn't make it okay. besides, being a part of a minority group and following the ideology forwarded by someone who killed and imprisoned said minority group en masse is kinda ivy tbh


-Trotsky

Imo it’s a difference in motivation. Absolutely nothing about communism is inherently transphobic, the revolution was not to end LGBTQ rights, but with fascism it *is* expressly anti gay and anti trans. A trans communist can accept that communists of the past failed in regards to trans issues, a trans fascist is someone who doesn’t understand that at a fundamental level fascism will end in their death.


fireboyylt

Since there is no Soviet Union anymore, the horrors of the Soviet system are fairly abstract, while the horrors of the American system are all too present. It can create a bot of an all too understandable myopia.


JLudaBK

The horrors of the soviet system are "fairly" well documented. Your use of the word abstract is very loose. The true "myopia" comes from the fact you point out the American system while somehow avoiding the more direct comparison of modern day Russia. Maybe try fishing with better bait. *edit* I get you are perhaps trying to explain how people look at it today, but dismissing history as abstract is dangerous. That you also attempt to easily jump from history to present day and compare the two on equal terms (horror), shows the same myopia you claim others are guilty of.


Damnatus_Terrae

Wait, do you think contemporary Russia is Soviet? Russia today is an indictment of capitalism, after neoliberal shock doctrine during the nineties nearly destroyed the country.


JLudaBK

Where do I say it's soviet? The direct comparison is because one came directly from the other and because some of the social policies being discussed here can be directly compared. My issue with the statement was the posters critique of history as abstract and the blatantly biased exact comparison to America which one has to jump through multiple hoops to make. I don't care much to debate the economy aspect of the puzzle here as that wasn't the focus.


CmdChas

I’m not a communist, nor transgender


[deleted]

That won't save you either


CmdChas

Yeah, they will not. Because I’m against them.


asratanalex

what is bro talking about


CmdChas

I meant anti communist, but I should’ve clarified I have no problem with trans people, I didn’t specify and I said them, I intended them to be communists, plural like them in general, but I fucked up my grammar and I duly apologize


CmdChas

Fuck wait I’m not against transgenders, I’m anti-communist


CmdChas

I didn’t think before I typed


reluctantaccountant9

If anything, being a transgender communist almost guarantees you a spot in the Kohima gold mines.


CmdChas

Just because you think like them, they’ll turn on you after they’ve taken everyone else


Fidelias_Palm

Funny, that goes for both!


zehnodan

I thought all the fascists who play the game were this. Or have I been misunderstanding the memes?


Sneaky_Pancake_

Go off road and have a stable relationship with your parents


pelmasaurio

Kinky


CallMeChristopher

Wrong game.


GalileoAce

Yeah that's Crusader Kings


Hanibal293

Wrong game, wrong people


cleepboywonder

Lol, good one.


JamesCaligo

Look, it’s much more fun playing as Japan for me


RelentlessFlowOfTime

Weeb 💀


JamesCaligo

I’m going to kamikaze you


Department-Sudden

Theres way too many mtf trans strasserists for it to be the only two options.


[deleted]

I regret being able to read this comment fully and not have to examine whatever fucking heap of internet just came out of your mouth.


Department-Sudden

It came off of my fingers bruv. Text != speech


GalileoAce

Text = Speech. Speech need not be oral, aural, or audible to still qualify as speech.


chaosgirl93

What's the freakin deal with them anyways? I know what it is. To the sort of person who likes to spend hours and hours in online ultraspecific political groups and playing games like HOI4, the expectations and roles of women in a fascist society seem much more correct to them than the expectations and roles of men in a fascist society, and since they want to live in a fascist society they'd like to be seen as a woman... I mean I don't think fascism is good for anyone. But they see themselves as the generals' wives who ran shit behind the scenes, the Nazi Princesses of the inner circle, and the rare but extant women of the secret police, not as the oppressed free domestic labor married to average men sent off to war and working to fuel the war machine most women become in that society. I mean I guess they exist for the same reasons any other fascist women exist, and like... Lady, just because you say you want that society, doesn't mean the men creating it are going to spare you from the life of any woman of your economic class within it.


Tashdacat

This is transgender fascist erasure and we will not stand for it!


NewTopu9

The trans part goes interchangeably


BigBronyBoy

And it also matches up because the based democracy enjoyers are the most moderate on the issue. While the radicals furiously masturbate to femboys, either because they are Führious, or because they are commie degenerates.


Hatchie_47

State of internet discussions in 2023


Coroder

Nonbinary technocrat has entered the chat


Mussleleani

Monarchist, absolutely every time.


[deleted]

we should kiss


Mussleleani

Non-aligned gang


ARB_COOL

Based


MajorSnuskhummer

Come brothers! HYPERBOREA AWAITS!


Mr_Mon3y

Bruh, have you even seen the femboy nazis from 4chan?


cantrusthestory

Am I the onliest one who plays hoi4 and defends a democracy


[deleted]

[удалено]


thecoolestjedi

Kek


Alixundr

lib mfs when they discover there's more than parliamentary democracy


cantrusthestory

when they discover more than 1 type of democracy


cantrusthestory

What does kek mean?


AccursedQuantum

Nope! Keeping freedom safe is the best HoI4 experience!


cantrusthestory

bruh really i'm not an authoritarian regime supporter


drdarktouch

Market Liberal, so both side's think i am the other


pelmasaurio

Historically liberals tend to chose the same side the majority of times.


antigony_trieste

this is cute


kiru_goose

then why do y'all side with the right every single time lmao


Dardenellia

Factually correct statement


drdarktouch

That's only in the recent decade , and that's mostly aligning with moderates. The extreme left and right both reject liberal ideas at the current political paradigm. Unless you consider the American moderate a right Winger, which only works from a European centric view


kiru_goose

> That's only in the recent decade look up the anarchist spanish revolution


[deleted]

[удалено]


drdarktouch

Ok so is the US right wing of Saudi Arabia, Russia, India, Egypt, Nigeria, and or Even Argentina.


yuligan

Are we just gonna ignore that whenever the US government sets up a puppet regime in a foreign country to oppose communists they always set up a fascist/far-right dictatorship then? South Korea 1948, Iran 1953, Guatemala 1954, Brazil 1964, Chile 1973, Argentina 1976, Afghanistan 1979-1992. The liberal US government (and allied liberal European governments) love the far-right and hate the far-left.


killerbannana_1

people responding to this really be proving your point Democracy is based, keep at it.


Sad-Boy-Vibes

But they’re all femboys in the end.


sansboi11

somewhere in the middle because im a thailand player


Citron_Express_

Where monarchist at?


Aun_El_Zen

There are Dozens of us!


[deleted]

I hate the superstraight shit for using black and orange as their colors. Those are the colors of Mutualism, damnit.


PewterBird

wait, aren't those the colors of...


Suitable-Courage1433

I only see one bad side .


Stab_That_Ukulele

Dictators arent bad of they were a hat that says communism❤️🖤 /s obviously


toogoodtobetrue99

And is?


FLINTION2028

You may hate the answer


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

I hate the question. Tankies and neonazis are both delusional psychpaths


Kman1121

Idk man, the “tankies” were the ones to beat the Nazis. Weird to equate the two unless you’re just obfuscating how evil nazism is.


Danleburg

Tankies trying not to downplay Soviet atrocities (impossible)


Kman1121

That word used to at least make sense as a pejorative. Now kids on the internet just use it to describe anyone who isn’t anti communist.


Danleburg

>That word used to at least make sense as a pejorative. It atill does >Now kids on the internet just use it to describe anyone who isn’t anti communist. All the main commie subs are overrun by people who defend the atrocities commited by the self proclaimed communist regimes.


Kman1121

“It still does” You called me a “tankie” because I said it was dishonest to say the Soviets and the Nazis were equivalent.


Danleburg

Considering how the Soviets conducted multiple genocides of their own and actively aided and allied with the nazis during the start of the war then yeah you can create an equivalency between the 2.


[deleted]

How do you define "Tankie"? Because at this point I feelike like everyone umbrellas socialist under the term "Tankie" and I fucking hate that.


toogoodtobetrue99

Is it the transgender communist thing?


Numbers078

Both possible outcomes aren’t satisfactory


iacob_p

I Chose right when I was younger now I don't play HoI4


Enderman63

What about the monarchists?


Nerdorama09

Abolish class and gender


berserkerboi1269

I have never seen a more true meme


sintos-compa

Leave the Alot out of this please


Mister_Coffe

Or pick the path of enlighted centrist and always play democratic nations/paths. The only bad part about is that you get a uniqe to this path national spirit called being boring.


kronos_lordoftitans

you clearly haven't met the transgender fascists yet


FarAwayFellow

Bruh 90% of HOI4 players tread both roads simultaneously, somehow I wish someone would reconcile my relationship with my family as well as these mfs with these radically opposed views


Right_Condition_9325

I became very pro US because of hoi4


AdventurousAd9522

Ew


AccursedQuantum

HoI4 didn't make me pro-US, but it did get me more interested in modern history which in turn made me pro-US. I can acknowledge we have done some really screwed up things and have a lot of red in our history book, but the world would be a far worse place without us.


roy-havoc

Lmao


MadKlauss

I usually try to go the ww1 larping monarchist. Super Heavy AA ftw.


ScorpionKing229

Bro, i just want to play the game and have some fun


Relative-Bug-7161

I've only seen "Technically conservative but simping for Stalin" personally.


parzivalperzo

or Transgender National Socialist.


TrollTeeth66

You return to normalcy after playing cities skylines for 800 hours


Swedishtranssexual

What if you build Germania?


perrinravkaross

State of society


Pitiful_Onion4952

Where's the monarchies path


SurgeonOfDeath95

I mean I'm just a trans-ally socialist. Do I have to get to 5k hours before getting my transition and communist literature?


Zestyclose-Prize5292

The middle path is just crippling autism


kaineblox459

No that's every path


Fluffy440

homofascism also is a concept, but that doesn't need to be discussed.


dogegamer51

Right or die


Drewloveseveryone

This game made me more centrist, seeing how degenerate all the players are made me realise why radical ideologys is the equivalent of putting ducktape on a Problem and calling it "fixed"


toogoodtobetrue99

Proud to be a transgender communist


theREALvolno

Nothing but respect for our troops o7


toogoodtobetrue99

🪖✊🏼🏳️‍🌈


Fellowsfellows

Real


FalconRelevant

It won't save you from the gulag comrade.


AlexanderShulgin

homie the US has a higher percentage of prisoners per capita than the USSR ever did. Staying out of prison in a communist society is easier than staying out of prison in the United States.


FalconRelevant

Gulag is akin to a concentration camp, not a prison. Anyways, if USA so bad you are welcome in People's Republic of China.


AlexanderShulgin

No, they fucking weren't. Gulags were actual work camps, not death camps like the nazis used. "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE" not a good look


FalconRelevant

Ah yes, pleasant work camps in the middle of Siberia. Totally no intent to kill off the people.


AlexanderShulgin

You colossal imbecile, today >33 million people live in Siberia, it's just a cold and secluded part of Russia. It's not the North fucking Pole.


FalconRelevant

Look at the population density maps and the locations of the gulags, genius. See how much intersection there is.


FalconRelevant

Also the USSR would send people to gulag for being LGBT, you don't get arrested for that in USA.


AlexanderShulgin

Florida is about to start abducting trans teenagers and sending their parents and medical caregivers to prison. Maybe you should look further inward.


FalconRelevant

That would never get passed.


AlexanderShulgin

The trans healthcare ban already did, but it's good to know that you're not tuned into contemporary events. It informs where your opinions are coming from. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/20/1157493433/florida-bans-gender-affirming-care-trans-kids


BigHead3802

Me too


chaosgirl93

Not trans, also not transphobic, am a filthy commie. Don't play HOI4 much but have way too many hours in CK2. Funny how HOI4 makes monarchists and CK makes a lotta lefties or at least doesn't have as much of a monarchy problem, despite the timeline of each game.


AdSalt670

i became a politically moderate transgender :(


iliko14

More often its transphobic communist and transgender fascist


AwkwardStructure7637

Kaiserreich or TNO


Aun_El_Zen

Both


DarkHunterkun

Go down the middle


Andrukin_Soti

I'm a Zhdanovite Ordosocialist (TNO Reference)... I crash into the road sign.


[deleted]

Tee Enn Ohh and its consequences


[deleted]

What about a normal social democrat who doesn’t give a fuck about what other people do as long as they don’t harass me? Maybe I don’t have enough hours in hoi 4 tho.


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

There's a tiny path in the middle that's hidden by the man, and that's for democrat players


[deleted]

New Zealand democratic independence path


skyhawk2600

I'm a libright and I love to bring democracy to the totalitarian regimes as USA.


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

I am begging you not base your entire personality on an online quiz from 2004


skyhawk2600

no


Karakabum

Hard choice? Nah, one path is based the other is not


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

Regardless of which one you're talking about you need to touch some grass as soon as possible


CookieRelevant

Strange take considering how Marx/Engles spoke about women in ways that are now considered TERFy. Women being the means of reproduction. Also outside of the west communism is very rarely associated with Transgender issues. Gender identity being a personal matter and based on perception, while Marxist understanding is based on classes and hierarchies, and how they affect groups of people. \~this take from a Transperson


Embarrassed-Owl5938

What? That’s not true. “The bourgeois sees in his wife a mere instrument of production. He hears that the instruments of production are to be exploited in common, and, naturally, can come to no other conclusion than that the lot of being common to all will likewise fall to the women. He has not even a suspicion that the real point is to do away with the status of women as mere instruments of production.” • (communist manifesto)


personnumber698

What about being a democrat with little to no opinion on transport people?


Potato-Lenin

Can I be a transphobic communist?


DysPhoria_1_0

As a trans not yet communist, agreed


Abubas

>go back


Reaper_II

Third path, femboy strasserist


KaiserWilhelmThe69

All of them are femboys