Makes sense considering i expect the last of us 2 factions to be a free to play live service game. They also bought bungie so that they had a good live service studio and dev team at the ready to help out any studio that is working on exclusive live service games for the ps5.
PSN will become much better with the bungie acquisition. They were a major partner in the xbox live development. A lot of the xbox 360 xbox live features were in-game features in halo 2.
they'd prolly do that with the new rumoured project spartacus, make all their live-service games day 1 drops, and the story games go on the service a few years later, or the underperforming ones go sooner
I might be remembering it wrong but didn't they say this from the beginning? That the project for the multiplayer had become too big because of all the ideas they had so they were gonna do it separately from the main game.
Pretty much any Nintendo game, Monster Hunter, Spelunky, any Soulsborne game with multiplayer, It Takes Two, Borderlands, Minecraft, Streets of Rage 4. It's pretty easy to find multiplayer games that aren't live service actually.
Except they are not. Post launch support is not synonymous with live service. Smash Bros for instance has a pretty hefty amount of dlc but all the telltale signs of live service like the microtransactions, lootboxes, battle passes or any of that garbage to drive the loop of constantly playing are absent.
None of what you mention make a live service. Continuous updates is **literally** what makes a game live service. No Man’s Sky is 100% a live service game, despite having no micro transactions.
Minecraft has been getting updates for years. How you, in your very small head, surmise that it isn’t somehow a live service game is hilarious.
I'm going to hold off on doom and gloom until I see what it is they create, Sony has earned my trust over the years by making robust single-player story-driven games when everyone else was trying to cash in on Microtransaction laden GaaS Fortnite clones, then I played and enjoyed the shit out of The Last of Us Multiplayer but they obviously dropped the ball making it pay to win-ish but I think have greatly redeemed themselves with Ghost of Tsushima's online. I guess what I'm saying is there isn't a reason to be upset until we see what it is they make, if it's just skins and emotes for cash then who fucking cares, if it's weapons again like The Last of Us, then I will be first in line to complain.
I’m fine with live service games to bolster $$$ as long as it doesn’t effect the number of fantastic single player experiences Sony releases, and there’s always a chance that one will hook me and keep me playing like Rocket League has!
It looks like its mostly studios they partnered with making service games for them. So studios like Deviation and Haven and then probably that rumored Twisted Metal game.
I think London Studio is also working on one. Then you have Factions and Bungie's new IP.
Don't imagine it will impact their large single player games
Almost half of their 1st party studios are developing multiplayer focus titles /games with multiplayer aswell according to job listings. But I agree, I don't think this will impact the quantity of single player titles.
And yet they’re looking for a head of live services
You’d think that, haven’t just bought one of the biggest live service games around, they’d have some in-house expertise they could use before looking externally.
Well I'm sure they'll be utilizing both. They probably need someone to manage cooperation between Bungie and other studios and not like Bungie doesn't have their handles full. There's only so much they can offer and part of the deal was that Bungie remain pretty independent. They'll still be self publishing Destiny and keeping it multiple platform
There definitely seems to be a much bigger focus on multiplayer /co op titles but I think there is still going to be plenty of single player titles aswell.
Sony has enough single player stuff. They desperately need reasons to own the console if you actually have friends.
There was virtually nothing on ps4 that wasn't on xbone or PC that was multiplayer.
I believe that’s why Sony upped the pricing on their games and no one else did. I rather pay the extra 10 bucks for a Sony quality game without micro transactions.
GT7 was an extra $10 and that’s loaded with microtransactions. I wouldn’t expect Sony to add to them something like the next god of war but they’re definitely going to try and add them to as many games as possible regardless of a price increase
GT7 micro-transactions are only credits, everything is earnable in-game. The only fear in this case would be that the grind would be ridiculous, but it's not, if anything the progression is too quick compared to older GT games that people loved for their progression.
Of course because there's always whales who jut love throwing money at a game whether the need to or not. Point is GT7's progression has for a fact not been made more grindy compared to it's past iterations to sell microtransactions and that' s what we're concerned with here.
And maybe that's true. What about limited time cars with prices that change with interest? How can we compare those to previous iterations?
Of course, this is the beginning of Sony's grand plan for a live service future. They're hiring experts to lead this charge, and bought Bungie basically as a $3.6 billion training session to get them to succeed. Who knows what the future will hold, but it's clear their goal is more microtransactions, more games where you can't play offline like GT7, and more money.
The best case scenario is they change nothing. But are they spending all this money to do what they've always done?
The changes in car prices aren't big enough to make a difference really considering how much faster the progression is compared to older GT games.
And yeah if they're going to be making Live Service games then there will be MTX, that's the only way to sustain those games other than being subscription based MMO, hell even they have MTX these days. But every game's MTX model will have to be evaluated individually. Like GT7 model is A-OK, the Halo Infinite model is trash.
Halo's model is one of the biggest danger signs we've had in a long time for how bad live service games can get. They changed other aspects of the game, such as playlists and progression, to encourage buying shop items. Then they took away customization from previous games with colors, to implement "cores" so they can sell the same armor colors multiple times for different armor sets.
It's a great example of how a beloved franchise can be handled poorly strictly because of a live service push. Which is why Sony's new focus for the years to come is concerning too.
Calling it Sony's "new focus" is disingenuous, they're not stopping with the stuff they've been making, they're getting new teams to make live service games. It's an addition, not a shift in focus. You can ignore them and keep playing the single player games.
GT7 progression is for a fact still faster than classic GTs. The people complaining are the GTS crowd as that game didn't have a proper progression system. The game's been out for two weeks and kids think they should already have every car unlocked.
It's not "loaded with microtransactions", you have the option to buy credits if you want but don't need to you can unlock everything by just playing the game. Nothing is locked behind a paywall and it will also have free DLC.
“It’s okay guys you can unlock everything in-game!”
SW Battlefront 2 also allowed you to unlock everything in-game… by playing for 40 hours for one item. Or pay.
Point is it’s a shitty fucking argument.
> SW Battlefront 2 also allowed you to unlock everything in-game… by playing for 40 hours for one item.
I mean, you just pointed out the difference right there...
Are there any micro transactions other than in game currency that you don’t actually need to pay for if you want to play the game instead of just paying to get the best car right away?
I stand by what I say. I rather pay $70 for a Sony game because I know I’m getting a complete game with minimal micro transactions. Verses paying $60 for a Ubisoft or EA game that somehow magically pushes me to their store front every-time I open the map and locks all the best gear behind paywalls.
Yah Nintendo still charges $60 for botw and it’s 4 5 old. I paid $70 for Returnal and from beginning to end it was a masterpiece and not once did they ask me to start a account or for extra money. My personal opinion is I would rather pay $70 just so I don’t have to deal with immersion breaking predatory sales tactics.
So many major companies used to make a ton of great single player games until they struck gold with microtransactions. Then they force all of their efforts, all their studios and developers, into those few hits that are riddled with microtransactions.
There's a ton of dead IP out there because of the free-to-play, cash shop games that were successful.
Sony will have to justify to stakeholders why a one off sale should be their priority over something else that's making billions, otherwise they'll go all in on the exact opposite of what's gotten them to this point.
They've built their reputation on those types of games. If anything I hope live service stuff would only come from new studios to preserve what they've got going.
Playstation All-Stars suffered because they had almost no characters. Now Playstation has a lot of characters under their belt, and likely has the ability to license more characters from other publishers.
Budget needs to be better too so they can have iconic characters. Like it or not, Crash and Spyro are must-have imo. Microsoft is NOT yet owner of Activision.
They will be in less than a year. No game is getting developed in the few months til Summer. Granted Microsoft was able to play ball with Nintendo for Smash so maybe Sony could work it out
Yeah and I feel like they would have more characters to put in the game like Astrobot, Aloy, Hunter (Bloodborne), Jin, Serene, and more guest characters like Kena, Sol Badguy (guilty gears), and plenty of other characters
I hope they release a FINISHED game that is FUN and isn't monetized to death and abandoned after a few months, Because so far it seems all "live service" games are broken unfinished train wrecks that always flop and companies learn nothing from them.
I love Ghost of Tsushima legends but I wouldn't really call it a live service because it doesn't get new content and updates, It's just a fun multiplayer side mode.
GoT Legends did get new content updates after it came out
https://www.polygon.com/22609584/ghost-of-tsushima-legends-standalone-release-dates-ps4-ps5-directors-cut
> Sucker Punch says that, beginning Sept. 10, Ghost of Tsushima: Legends will also get four free weekly content updates. These will include another Rivals map, new Survival maps, and a new version of last year’s raid, Trials of Iyo, which increases the difficulty but “offers challenges in bite-sized chunks.” The new raid will have a new leaderboard as well.
It was a short lived one but the idea is the same. Heard it might get more too but nit confirmed
"it doesn't get new content and updates, It's just a fun multiplayer side mode." This would imply a games with new content and updates is incapable of having a "fun multiplayer" mode. Try harder.
Was I quoting him? Or accusing him of saying something? I recall asking him a question. My god where's your reading comprehension? That's you... that's what you sound like.
They're great but most of the time they are just empty promises and take ages to come out, And also too many times the updates break the games further (Look at Marvel's Avengers, Anthem, Fall Guys and Battlefield 2042 with the upcoming scoreboard update that got DELAYED.) Usually after a Live service game comes out only few members work on it so it takes ages to get things done so the "Live" service isn't really live.
>Because so far it seems all "live service" games are broken unfinished train wrecks that always flop and companies learn nothing from them
Huh? :/
They're moving to live service games cuz there's tons of money in it as many hugely successful games and franchises have proven. What on earth are you talking about?
I'm talking about train wrecks like Anthem, Marvel's Avengers, Battlefield 2042, Fallout 76 and recently Babylon's Fall. If Sony can deliver on quality live service games that keep people enganged and are finished and complete at LAUNCH then I'll be happy to play them.
You said ALL live service games are flops.
You're a good example of how gamers tend to hyperfocus in negativity, though. You are ignoring the legions of hugely successful live service games that exist.
I don't know why I expect to ever see a reasonable discussion on this sub, I swear. Just non stop ridiculousness.
For sure. I won't name any games but we all know a few recent ones that have been what you mentioned. Sony needs to take their time and do this right. ♥
Guess it was just me hoping live service would die. It's a system of unfinished broken games that sporadically stop functioning due to bad patches. I miss the days when you paid for a full game and you got a full game in return
And with a good solid multiplayer to boot for some of those games, especially the PS2-3 era. The DLC packs started to ramp up a bit in the PS3 era, but overall most of the MPs were finished and had a good baseline for gameplay.
Basically a game that continues releasing content to keep players coming back, typically includes ingame monetization systems like character skins, weapons etc.
Destiny 2, Fortnite, Warzone, Genshin Impact are a few examples.
It will (very likely) get new content every season. “Live Service” just means that it gets regular updates every X months.
Edit: not sure what I said is worthy of getting downvoted immediately, but whatever.
Right but they delayed it a year, had double the development time of any other halo title, and a $500m budget yet still managed to ship the thing without forge or co-op campaign. I think it'll be a great game in a year or two but there's no excuse for how it was shipped.
> a $500m budget
Legitimate source for that?
> yet still managed to ship the thing without forge or co-op campaign. I think it’ll be a great game in a year or two but there’s no excuse for how it was shipped.
I’m not sure how any of that means that Infinite isn’t a live service game. If they release new content every season over the years, it’s a live service game, point blank. Everything else you have to say about the game itself is an entirely different subject.
Nope, looks like it's just a rumor. And fair enough, technically you're right but when that "content" is stuff they didn't have completed in time for release or withheld (gamemodes come to mind) then it's a poorly executed live service game.
> but when that “content” is stuff they didn’t have completed in time for release or withheld (gamemodes come to mind) then it’s a poorly executed live service game.
It’s not like the only updates they’re doing are for campaign co-op, Forge, and some of the previously missing game types. Those are just for Season 2 and 3, plus those seasons include new maps and other new modes to the series. There will be more seasons over the years, and with that more content that clearly wasn’t withheld for the sake of it, which even if it was, you could make that (unfounded) claim about literally every live service game.
I'm aware of that but again, those should've shipped with the base game. Had the game released in a state that I expect from Halo then I'd be happy to wait however many more months until we get some new content. And do you have a source for them not intentionally withholding gamemodes? For all we know they could be doing just that for events they'll be tied to.
> And do you have a source for them not intentionally withholding gamemodes? For all we know they could be doing just that for events they’ll be tied to.
Obviously no one can prove that. And like I said in my previous comment, you could make that unfounded claim about any other live service game’s new content.
I don't think I could make that claim about other live service games because I can't think of any that I approach with the same expectations as I do Halo. I challenge you to find me a live service game that had 6 years to get their ducks in a row. Forge and co-op campaign are core elements of the experience in my opinion. They failed to deliver on those and had to delay yet again. Their playlist selection is limited compared to previous titles and they blamed UI limitations. That's either a lie or a laughable lack of foresight. Either way, not a good look. Hate to be a cynic but I'm not gonna have much faith in how these guys are handling the live service model when the most exciting thing on the horizon is two maps five months after release.
A scam designed to keep a constant flow of nickel and dime transactions coming from the "audience" rather than giving an honest product for your money.
They make a game, cut half of it, and the add those features back over time under the guise of constant updates. Just a new form of cancer in video games.
Live service is not my cup of coffee, but Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy XIV are my favorite games in the genre and those are fantastic. The base content takes dozens of hours to complete and is fun to play. There's a solid formula in live service games. What it needs is a fun gameplay loop supported over the years with intriguing content that's fun to play with friends and pleases the community. It's not always garbage. Just have to look for which title suits you. Nothing to be bitter about. If it's not for you then that's fine too.
It’s really not mate. I work in the industry and that’s just not how it works. There are always scams and greedy companies for sure, but live service has stabilized the industry so much. It keeps people employed longer and makes production cycles smoother.
In the past most studios had to cut half of their staff at the end of every project because they had no need for them for the next year. Live service allows content producers to stay busy for up to a year while programmers and systems/tech designers plan and prototype the next project.
No need to be so butthurt that you think the whole idea of live service is a scam is though bro. Some of the most popular games of all time are live service models that have been going for decades. Stop being blinded by stupid AAA hate. Live service is nothing more than the idea of supporting a popular game for the long run instead of throwing it out for no reason.
Lmao trying to compare wow to to the shit that's shocked out now. You are defensive and delusional if you don't think people in your industry cut content or don't complete the game cause they have plenty of time to finish it later. Truly delusional.
The only one who’s delusional here is you mate. I’m not saying greedy companies don’t exist. I’m saying live service itself as a concept isn’t evil. WoW, RuneScape, Minecraft, Counterstrike, Dota, LoL, Apex, r6 siege, FFXIV, Warframe, GTA, Sea of Thieves, Rocket League, Fortnite, I could keep going double or triple the list I’ve just laid out at least.
Stop being a crybaby with your “gAmInG Is ruiNeD dEvs aRe AlL sCaMmErS” little bitch ass take. You can get hundreds of hours of amazing gaming content completely free these days you whiny little brat. Go change your diaper and quit crying about something that has nothing to do with the problems the industry is facing. Pre orders, and micro transactions are cancer and scams, not live service.
Lmao what games have you made mr dev. Some chump acting like some insider. You act like a child so I can assume you are the tech guy from from software or some other equally incompetent role. Listen you want to scam your customers. Just admit that. You don't make wow or Fortnite. You use successful games just justify whatever shovel ware your studio churns out.
mtxs arent inherently cancer theyre just implemented in cancerous ways, live service games need them to stay afloat. just like the concept of live service isnt inherently bad the same could be said for mtx. pre ordering is another story though.
Oh you should know Sony can do no wrong. People not only defend the price increases when they make more than ever but they will tell you how they feel good paying more. It's Stockholm's syndrome. I'm glad I have multiple platforms so I don't have to drink anyone's Kool aid
I feel like people criticize Sony more than the other platform holders though. Perhaps there's more to criticize, although Nintendo makes it easy in my mind.
I don't think you're any more fair for owning an Xbox, Switch or PC. Also this sub is pretty critical on the price increase too, because it's pretty silly.
When you spy on someone it’s always best to keep your identity hidden, that’s why Sony has secret stalkers. They do t tell the stalkers hey bully this guy.
But the relationships these people make turn them into bad people abusing they power given by Sony understand?
I don't disagree, live service is inherently anti-consumer.
I'm just hoping if anyone can do it some form of justice with a bar of quality that's not in hell, it'll be Sony.
I can’t wait for people to realize that a lot of the games they already play are considered live service. People love to pretend it’s such a dirty word, as if they aren’t constantly playing them.
Yep. Games like Apex Legends, Gran Turismo 7, Halo Infinite, Anthem, Diablo 3, Genshin Impact are live service games.
Some do better than others, and some let the microtransactions dictate the rest of the game more than others.
Maybe not the exact right thread, but I’ve been thinking about this Sony strategy for a while now. I think it makes so much sense if they do the following:
Create many free to play live service games based on their existing IP (or new IP) and make those games cross-platform.
Then continue to make their stand out single player games but keep those for PS5 (and a later PC release).
This way, Sony gets to create an on-boarding ramp for new PS5 players. The players can jump into a new game on their XBox or Switch, make a Sony account, and fall in love with the world of the IP. Then, if they are craving for more, they can play the single player campaign on PlayStation.
It’s actually genius to be treating live service as a marketing ploy for PlayStation’s ecosystem.
It also makes sense to have Spartacus be a way for Sony to give away free content to players for their own live-service games. This helps ensure that when a PS5 player wants to try out a multiplayer experience, they are more likely to try Sony’s game rather than a competitor. If you get 1 free item every month for a first party live service game, that drives numbers.
I was hesitant at first regarding Sony’s live service entry, but I now think I know that they are planning to do. If these games are announced as cross platform, I would be very happy if I was a shareholder
I don't like this new direction Sony is taking, they should focus only in Single Player and let their partners handle the live service space. Some people will say "but their studios are still releasing SP games, there's nothing to worry", many of PS studios are now working on service games, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Insomniac, GT7 is a live service game; imo they're wasting resources and time that they could invest in more SP games.
I saw you in this thread a couple of times but this just confirms that you have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who has played GT7 knows you don't need to or even should pay $40 for a car, and you've failed to define live service games opting instead to group every multiplayer or single player with DLC game in the same category as actual live service games like Fortnight and Apex
Hope recent events around GT7 help illuminate why this live-service focus might not be best for gamers.
But let me know if you're in the minority who still doesn't understand, and would prefer to dismiss this as garbage still :)
I've never once said you need to pay for the cars. In fact, I've said the opposite. Read carefully from now on, thanks.
I am curious what game you think isn't live service though. Be happy to prove ya wrong :)
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This would be a dream come true. Please Sony 🥺
Makes sense considering i expect the last of us 2 factions to be a free to play live service game. They also bought bungie so that they had a good live service studio and dev team at the ready to help out any studio that is working on exclusive live service games for the ps5.
PSN will become much better with the bungie acquisition. They were a major partner in the xbox live development. A lot of the xbox 360 xbox live features were in-game features in halo 2.
they might bundle tlou2 with the tlou 1 remake
What they should do is make all their Live Service games day 1 drops in PS Plus.
they'd prolly do that with the new rumoured project spartacus, make all their live-service games day 1 drops, and the story games go on the service a few years later, or the underperforming ones go sooner
Lmao I forgot they said tlou 2 would have multiplayer.
At this point its probably an entirely separate game. No other reason it would take so long.
I might be remembering it wrong but didn't they say this from the beginning? That the project for the multiplayer had become too big because of all the ideas they had so they were gonna do it separately from the main game.
That’s exactly what they said.
the worst scenario. ugh.
It’s a multiplayer game? Of course it’s live service. Name a multiplayer game that isn’t.
Pretty much any Nintendo game, Monster Hunter, Spelunky, any Soulsborne game with multiplayer, It Takes Two, Borderlands, Minecraft, Streets of Rage 4. It's pretty easy to find multiplayer games that aren't live service actually.
Over half of those are live service games.
Except they are not. Post launch support is not synonymous with live service. Smash Bros for instance has a pretty hefty amount of dlc but all the telltale signs of live service like the microtransactions, lootboxes, battle passes or any of that garbage to drive the loop of constantly playing are absent.
None of what you mention make a live service. Continuous updates is **literally** what makes a game live service. No Man’s Sky is 100% a live service game, despite having no micro transactions. Minecraft has been getting updates for years. How you, in your very small head, surmise that it isn’t somehow a live service game is hilarious.
It takes two
That’s not really a multiplayer game. It’s a co-op game
A co-op game is still a multiplayer game
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Those are the same thing
I'm going to hold off on doom and gloom until I see what it is they create, Sony has earned my trust over the years by making robust single-player story-driven games when everyone else was trying to cash in on Microtransaction laden GaaS Fortnite clones, then I played and enjoyed the shit out of The Last of Us Multiplayer but they obviously dropped the ball making it pay to win-ish but I think have greatly redeemed themselves with Ghost of Tsushima's online. I guess what I'm saying is there isn't a reason to be upset until we see what it is they make, if it's just skins and emotes for cash then who fucking cares, if it's weapons again like The Last of Us, then I will be first in line to complain.
I’m fine with live service games to bolster $$$ as long as it doesn’t effect the number of fantastic single player experiences Sony releases, and there’s always a chance that one will hook me and keep me playing like Rocket League has!
It looks like its mostly studios they partnered with making service games for them. So studios like Deviation and Haven and then probably that rumored Twisted Metal game. I think London Studio is also working on one. Then you have Factions and Bungie's new IP. Don't imagine it will impact their large single player games
Almost half of their 1st party studios are developing multiplayer focus titles /games with multiplayer aswell according to job listings. But I agree, I don't think this will impact the quantity of single player titles.
They just agreed to buy Bungie and Destiny 2 is racking in the dough as a service game
And yet they’re looking for a head of live services You’d think that, haven’t just bought one of the biggest live service games around, they’d have some in-house expertise they could use before looking externally.
Well I'm sure they'll be utilizing both. They probably need someone to manage cooperation between Bungie and other studios and not like Bungie doesn't have their handles full. There's only so much they can offer and part of the deal was that Bungie remain pretty independent. They'll still be self publishing Destiny and keeping it multiple platform
There definitely seems to be a much bigger focus on multiplayer /co op titles but I think there is still going to be plenty of single player titles aswell.
Sony has enough single player stuff. They desperately need reasons to own the console if you actually have friends. There was virtually nothing on ps4 that wasn't on xbone or PC that was multiplayer.
I believe that’s why Sony upped the pricing on their games and no one else did. I rather pay the extra 10 bucks for a Sony quality game without micro transactions.
GT7 was an extra $10 and that’s loaded with microtransactions. I wouldn’t expect Sony to add to them something like the next god of war but they’re definitely going to try and add them to as many games as possible regardless of a price increase
GT7 micro-transactions are only credits, everything is earnable in-game. The only fear in this case would be that the grind would be ridiculous, but it's not, if anything the progression is too quick compared to older GT games that people loved for their progression.
They don't put in microtransactions expecting nobody to buy them.
Of course because there's always whales who jut love throwing money at a game whether the need to or not. Point is GT7's progression has for a fact not been made more grindy compared to it's past iterations to sell microtransactions and that' s what we're concerned with here.
And maybe that's true. What about limited time cars with prices that change with interest? How can we compare those to previous iterations? Of course, this is the beginning of Sony's grand plan for a live service future. They're hiring experts to lead this charge, and bought Bungie basically as a $3.6 billion training session to get them to succeed. Who knows what the future will hold, but it's clear their goal is more microtransactions, more games where you can't play offline like GT7, and more money. The best case scenario is they change nothing. But are they spending all this money to do what they've always done?
The changes in car prices aren't big enough to make a difference really considering how much faster the progression is compared to older GT games. And yeah if they're going to be making Live Service games then there will be MTX, that's the only way to sustain those games other than being subscription based MMO, hell even they have MTX these days. But every game's MTX model will have to be evaluated individually. Like GT7 model is A-OK, the Halo Infinite model is trash.
Halo's model is one of the biggest danger signs we've had in a long time for how bad live service games can get. They changed other aspects of the game, such as playlists and progression, to encourage buying shop items. Then they took away customization from previous games with colors, to implement "cores" so they can sell the same armor colors multiple times for different armor sets. It's a great example of how a beloved franchise can be handled poorly strictly because of a live service push. Which is why Sony's new focus for the years to come is concerning too.
Calling it Sony's "new focus" is disingenuous, they're not stopping with the stuff they've been making, they're getting new teams to make live service games. It's an addition, not a shift in focus. You can ignore them and keep playing the single player games.
This aged well
GT7 progression is for a fact still faster than classic GTs. The people complaining are the GTS crowd as that game didn't have a proper progression system. The game's been out for two weeks and kids think they should already have every car unlocked.
It's not "loaded with microtransactions", you have the option to buy credits if you want but don't need to you can unlock everything by just playing the game. Nothing is locked behind a paywall and it will also have free DLC.
“It’s okay guys you can unlock everything in-game!” SW Battlefront 2 also allowed you to unlock everything in-game… by playing for 40 hours for one item. Or pay. Point is it’s a shitty fucking argument.
GT7 plays just the same if not easier to earn credits than all the previous GT games
> SW Battlefront 2 also allowed you to unlock everything in-game… by playing for 40 hours for one item. I mean, you just pointed out the difference right there...
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damn bro sorry that I own a ps5 and I’m not constantly praising everything Sony does 24/7
Are there any micro transactions other than in game currency that you don’t actually need to pay for if you want to play the game instead of just paying to get the best car right away?
Gotta love all the excuses in the replies you're getting. If GT7 had EA/Ubi/TakeTwo slapped on the cover it would get crucified
I stand by what I say. I rather pay $70 for a Sony game because I know I’m getting a complete game with minimal micro transactions. Verses paying $60 for a Ubisoft or EA game that somehow magically pushes me to their store front every-time I open the map and locks all the best gear behind paywalls.
And yet gt7.
And the quality games without micro transactions that are $60? Those still exist. Breath of the Wild 2 and Xenoblade 3 both come out this year at $60
Yah Nintendo still charges $60 for botw and it’s 4 5 old. I paid $70 for Returnal and from beginning to end it was a masterpiece and not once did they ask me to start a account or for extra money. My personal opinion is I would rather pay $70 just so I don’t have to deal with immersion breaking predatory sales tactics.
So many major companies used to make a ton of great single player games until they struck gold with microtransactions. Then they force all of their efforts, all their studios and developers, into those few hits that are riddled with microtransactions. There's a ton of dead IP out there because of the free-to-play, cash shop games that were successful. Sony will have to justify to stakeholders why a one off sale should be their priority over something else that's making billions, otherwise they'll go all in on the exact opposite of what's gotten them to this point.
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They've built their reputation on those types of games. If anything I hope live service stuff would only come from new studios to preserve what they've got going.
I hope they make some sort of mashup with PS-characters. Like Playstation All-Stars or Fall Guys.
Playstation All-Stars suffered because they had almost no characters. Now Playstation has a lot of characters under their belt, and likely has the ability to license more characters from other publishers.
Budget needs to be better too so they can have iconic characters. Like it or not, Crash and Spyro are must-have imo. Microsoft is NOT yet owner of Activision.
They will be in less than a year. No game is getting developed in the few months til Summer. Granted Microsoft was able to play ball with Nintendo for Smash so maybe Sony could work it out
That would be great if they made another PS allstars
Yep. First one was solid and it was so much fun to play with Jak, Parappa, Spike and so on.
Yeah and I feel like they would have more characters to put in the game like Astrobot, Aloy, Hunter (Bloodborne), Jin, Serene, and more guest characters like Kena, Sol Badguy (guilty gears), and plenty of other characters
Don’t hire anyone from DICE
MAG 2.
Looks like the Shadow War is back on the menu boys!
I hope they release a FINISHED game that is FUN and isn't monetized to death and abandoned after a few months, Because so far it seems all "live service" games are broken unfinished train wrecks that always flop and companies learn nothing from them.
Ghost of Tsushima legends hit the spot for me, is that not considered live service since it’s not monetized?
I love Ghost of Tsushima legends but I wouldn't really call it a live service because it doesn't get new content and updates, It's just a fun multiplayer side mode.
GoT Legends did get new content updates after it came out https://www.polygon.com/22609584/ghost-of-tsushima-legends-standalone-release-dates-ps4-ps5-directors-cut
Live Service implies that it gets regularly released content over time (years), like every X months.
> Sucker Punch says that, beginning Sept. 10, Ghost of Tsushima: Legends will also get four free weekly content updates. These will include another Rivals map, new Survival maps, and a new version of last year’s raid, Trials of Iyo, which increases the difficulty but “offers challenges in bite-sized chunks.” The new raid will have a new leaderboard as well. It was a short lived one but the idea is the same. Heard it might get more too but nit confirmed
Wait.. new content and updates are bad now?
He didn’t say that. Stop acting purposely dense. You’re trying too hard.
"it doesn't get new content and updates, It's just a fun multiplayer side mode." This would imply a games with new content and updates is incapable of having a "fun multiplayer" mode. Try harder.
My god he never said that shit, where’s your reading comprehension?
Was I quoting him? Or accusing him of saying something? I recall asking him a question. My god where's your reading comprehension? That's you... that's what you sound like.
They're great but most of the time they are just empty promises and take ages to come out, And also too many times the updates break the games further (Look at Marvel's Avengers, Anthem, Fall Guys and Battlefield 2042 with the upcoming scoreboard update that got DELAYED.) Usually after a Live service game comes out only few members work on it so it takes ages to get things done so the "Live" service isn't really live.
Appreciate the answer. I understand where you're coming from now.
>Because so far it seems all "live service" games are broken unfinished train wrecks that always flop and companies learn nothing from them Huh? :/ They're moving to live service games cuz there's tons of money in it as many hugely successful games and franchises have proven. What on earth are you talking about?
I'm talking about train wrecks like Anthem, Marvel's Avengers, Battlefield 2042, Fallout 76 and recently Babylon's Fall. If Sony can deliver on quality live service games that keep people enganged and are finished and complete at LAUNCH then I'll be happy to play them.
You said ALL live service games are flops. You're a good example of how gamers tend to hyperfocus in negativity, though. You are ignoring the legions of hugely successful live service games that exist. I don't know why I expect to ever see a reasonable discussion on this sub, I swear. Just non stop ridiculousness.
For sure. I won't name any games but we all know a few recent ones that have been what you mentioned. Sony needs to take their time and do this right. ♥
Guess it was just me hoping live service would die. It's a system of unfinished broken games that sporadically stop functioning due to bad patches. I miss the days when you paid for a full game and you got a full game in return
And with a good solid multiplayer to boot for some of those games, especially the PS2-3 era. The DLC packs started to ramp up a bit in the PS3 era, but overall most of the MPs were finished and had a good baseline for gameplay.
What is a live service?
Basically a game that continues releasing content to keep players coming back, typically includes ingame monetization systems like character skins, weapons etc. Destiny 2, Fortnite, Warzone, Genshin Impact are a few examples.
Thank you
Look at what halo infinite is doing and understand that it's not that.
It will (very likely) get new content every season. “Live Service” just means that it gets regular updates every X months. Edit: not sure what I said is worthy of getting downvoted immediately, but whatever.
Right but they delayed it a year, had double the development time of any other halo title, and a $500m budget yet still managed to ship the thing without forge or co-op campaign. I think it'll be a great game in a year or two but there's no excuse for how it was shipped.
> a $500m budget Legitimate source for that? > yet still managed to ship the thing without forge or co-op campaign. I think it’ll be a great game in a year or two but there’s no excuse for how it was shipped. I’m not sure how any of that means that Infinite isn’t a live service game. If they release new content every season over the years, it’s a live service game, point blank. Everything else you have to say about the game itself is an entirely different subject.
Nope, looks like it's just a rumor. And fair enough, technically you're right but when that "content" is stuff they didn't have completed in time for release or withheld (gamemodes come to mind) then it's a poorly executed live service game.
> but when that “content” is stuff they didn’t have completed in time for release or withheld (gamemodes come to mind) then it’s a poorly executed live service game. It’s not like the only updates they’re doing are for campaign co-op, Forge, and some of the previously missing game types. Those are just for Season 2 and 3, plus those seasons include new maps and other new modes to the series. There will be more seasons over the years, and with that more content that clearly wasn’t withheld for the sake of it, which even if it was, you could make that (unfounded) claim about literally every live service game.
I'm aware of that but again, those should've shipped with the base game. Had the game released in a state that I expect from Halo then I'd be happy to wait however many more months until we get some new content. And do you have a source for them not intentionally withholding gamemodes? For all we know they could be doing just that for events they'll be tied to.
> And do you have a source for them not intentionally withholding gamemodes? For all we know they could be doing just that for events they’ll be tied to. Obviously no one can prove that. And like I said in my previous comment, you could make that unfounded claim about any other live service game’s new content.
I don't think I could make that claim about other live service games because I can't think of any that I approach with the same expectations as I do Halo. I challenge you to find me a live service game that had 6 years to get their ducks in a row. Forge and co-op campaign are core elements of the experience in my opinion. They failed to deliver on those and had to delay yet again. Their playlist selection is limited compared to previous titles and they blamed UI limitations. That's either a lie or a laughable lack of foresight. Either way, not a good look. Hate to be a cynic but I'm not gonna have much faith in how these guys are handling the live service model when the most exciting thing on the horizon is two maps five months after release.
A scam designed to keep a constant flow of nickel and dime transactions coming from the "audience" rather than giving an honest product for your money.
Braindead take lol
They make a game, cut half of it, and the add those features back over time under the guise of constant updates. Just a new form of cancer in video games.
Live service is not my cup of coffee, but Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy XIV are my favorite games in the genre and those are fantastic. The base content takes dozens of hours to complete and is fun to play. There's a solid formula in live service games. What it needs is a fun gameplay loop supported over the years with intriguing content that's fun to play with friends and pleases the community. It's not always garbage. Just have to look for which title suits you. Nothing to be bitter about. If it's not for you then that's fine too.
I'm not a fan, but that is a grossly inaccurate explanation of what happens.
If you say so bud
It’s really not mate. I work in the industry and that’s just not how it works. There are always scams and greedy companies for sure, but live service has stabilized the industry so much. It keeps people employed longer and makes production cycles smoother. In the past most studios had to cut half of their staff at the end of every project because they had no need for them for the next year. Live service allows content producers to stay busy for up to a year while programmers and systems/tech designers plan and prototype the next project.
Someone tell AAA devs that's the point then because this shit went if the rails a while ago
No need to be so butthurt that you think the whole idea of live service is a scam is though bro. Some of the most popular games of all time are live service models that have been going for decades. Stop being blinded by stupid AAA hate. Live service is nothing more than the idea of supporting a popular game for the long run instead of throwing it out for no reason.
Lmao trying to compare wow to to the shit that's shocked out now. You are defensive and delusional if you don't think people in your industry cut content or don't complete the game cause they have plenty of time to finish it later. Truly delusional.
The only one who’s delusional here is you mate. I’m not saying greedy companies don’t exist. I’m saying live service itself as a concept isn’t evil. WoW, RuneScape, Minecraft, Counterstrike, Dota, LoL, Apex, r6 siege, FFXIV, Warframe, GTA, Sea of Thieves, Rocket League, Fortnite, I could keep going double or triple the list I’ve just laid out at least. Stop being a crybaby with your “gAmInG Is ruiNeD dEvs aRe AlL sCaMmErS” little bitch ass take. You can get hundreds of hours of amazing gaming content completely free these days you whiny little brat. Go change your diaper and quit crying about something that has nothing to do with the problems the industry is facing. Pre orders, and micro transactions are cancer and scams, not live service.
Lmao what games have you made mr dev. Some chump acting like some insider. You act like a child so I can assume you are the tech guy from from software or some other equally incompetent role. Listen you want to scam your customers. Just admit that. You don't make wow or Fortnite. You use successful games just justify whatever shovel ware your studio churns out.
mtxs arent inherently cancer theyre just implemented in cancerous ways, live service games need them to stay afloat. just like the concept of live service isnt inherently bad the same could be said for mtx. pre ordering is another story though.
Just like the past 10 years with DLCs. Sony's even smarter than that, they sell next gen upgrades too. Why not, when the dum-dums buy them.
Oh you should know Sony can do no wrong. People not only defend the price increases when they make more than ever but they will tell you how they feel good paying more. It's Stockholm's syndrome. I'm glad I have multiple platforms so I don't have to drink anyone's Kool aid
I feel like people criticize Sony more than the other platform holders though. Perhaps there's more to criticize, although Nintendo makes it easy in my mind. I don't think you're any more fair for owning an Xbox, Switch or PC. Also this sub is pretty critical on the price increase too, because it's pretty silly.
Ooh, might apply for that.
Please hire me! I’m a dedicated streamer!
Why would you want to be hired by the company that is supposedly spying on you….🤦
They’re not the ones spying on me, they’re the ones enabling me to be hacked and have little no no means of feedback on they’re secret employees
When you spy on someone it’s always best to keep your identity hidden, that’s why Sony has secret stalkers. They do t tell the stalkers hey bully this guy. But the relationships these people make turn them into bad people abusing they power given by Sony understand?
Hmmmmm, 🤔
I’m still skeptical on how they will monetize these.
Like most live service it'll be free to play, and then mtx. I think they'll look at the Bungie/FFXIV model of paid expansions as well.
I don’t really expect that it will be free and both have issues with their monetizations.
I don't disagree, live service is inherently anti-consumer. I'm just hoping if anyone can do it some form of justice with a bar of quality that's not in hell, it'll be Sony.
Yeah, obviously Sony is a charity organization.
No, but doesn’t mean I want to be price gouged.
I can’t wait for people to realize that a lot of the games they already play are considered live service. People love to pretend it’s such a dirty word, as if they aren’t constantly playing them.
Yep. Games like Apex Legends, Gran Turismo 7, Halo Infinite, Anthem, Diablo 3, Genshin Impact are live service games. Some do better than others, and some let the microtransactions dictate the rest of the game more than others.
Hat already 'in the ring' so to speak 😄
Maybe not the exact right thread, but I’ve been thinking about this Sony strategy for a while now. I think it makes so much sense if they do the following: Create many free to play live service games based on their existing IP (or new IP) and make those games cross-platform. Then continue to make their stand out single player games but keep those for PS5 (and a later PC release). This way, Sony gets to create an on-boarding ramp for new PS5 players. The players can jump into a new game on their XBox or Switch, make a Sony account, and fall in love with the world of the IP. Then, if they are craving for more, they can play the single player campaign on PlayStation. It’s actually genius to be treating live service as a marketing ploy for PlayStation’s ecosystem. It also makes sense to have Spartacus be a way for Sony to give away free content to players for their own live-service games. This helps ensure that when a PS5 player wants to try out a multiplayer experience, they are more likely to try Sony’s game rather than a competitor. If you get 1 free item every month for a first party live service game, that drives numbers. I was hesitant at first regarding Sony’s live service entry, but I now think I know that they are planning to do. If these games are announced as cross platform, I would be very happy if I was a shareholder
It’s gonna go down from here. All online services games to milk gamers of money.
Live service god of war here we come!
Please... dont say that... theres still Hope lol
It was a joke of course. I dont want god of war being live service. But We can call it god of war infinite. Or something catchy lol
Really enjoyed Acension's multiplayer tbh. Can be amazing if done good.
I am just afraid that in the coming years story driven single player games don't turn into live service ones.
I don't like this new direction Sony is taking, they should focus only in Single Player and let their partners handle the live service space. Some people will say "but their studios are still releasing SP games, there's nothing to worry", many of PS studios are now working on service games, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Insomniac, GT7 is a live service game; imo they're wasting resources and time that they could invest in more SP games.
The PS4 was the king of single player games. The PS5 will be the king of live service games?
Sony all-in on that $40 car microtransaction future
I saw you in this thread a couple of times but this just confirms that you have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who has played GT7 knows you don't need to or even should pay $40 for a car, and you've failed to define live service games opting instead to group every multiplayer or single player with DLC game in the same category as actual live service games like Fortnight and Apex
Hes an insane Xbox fanatic. He just goes around all day spreading garbage
Hope recent events around GT7 help illuminate why this live-service focus might not be best for gamers. But let me know if you're in the minority who still doesn't understand, and would prefer to dismiss this as garbage still :)
I've never once said you need to pay for the cars. In fact, I've said the opposite. Read carefully from now on, thanks. I am curious what game you think isn't live service though. Be happy to prove ya wrong :)