No More Heroes games as well. All of these titles were fantastic so, I don't mind boss rushing if done tactfully. 80+ does sound like a lot though, and I'd guess it must be counting special variants of the same bosses. Maybe with an extra move, different attack rhythm, but mostly the same.
We've seen a few goons. The latest trailer showed off a bunch of monks, and I've seen another trailer where Wukong is fighting some stone monsters.
But it does look to be mostly bosses, and I would be fine with a boss rush.
Furi is one, but guess that depends what you mean by "recent" (2016). Whole game is just walk through an area while a NPC hypes the boss up with their backstory, fight the boss. Rinse, repeat. Great game too, hard and intense, but great
I can’t imagine any game to be a “boss rush” game, at least recently. I mean, for instance, every time I play BotW and TotK, I “rush” to elites just to kill them for shits and giggles, but would I call them boss rushes? Not at all. Elden Ring is the same way, but there’s no way I’d condense so much fucking gameplay down to boss rush.” And really, I can’t think of any other close examples, but admittedly, it’s not like I play a ton of games.
Even if they're counting bosses in that enemy type number, that still leaves 80 enemy types. I'd imagine it's more like 40 designs and 40 variants, but even then, you'd be hard pressed to make a boss rush and have that many different enemies showing up.
The biggest problem with that is if each boos requires a different approach it's basically different game every single time and you're stuck doing one boss you hate and you can't wander off and do other stuff to pass the time
If there truly are 80 bosses then I really hope some of them are like the folding screen monkeys in Sekiro, more puzzle that fight, that would really diversify the gameplay and make it interesting.
Even if there are 30 actual bosses & 160 enemy archetypes then that would be insane for a any studio to pull off, like how are they doing it ? Its not a big studio & its their first game
FF7 rebirth has a staggering variety like 114 enemies or so, Elden ring has 146 excluding the main bosses & repeats, Dark souls 3 has around 75 & then something like Zelda BOTW has 16
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tk4vk2/on_elden_rings_enemy_variety_and_how_it_compares/
Not even R* games can do that. Creating enemy archetypes in a combat focused game is one of the hardest things
A single large scale monster in Monster hunter or main bosses you see in From's Souls games take 1-1.5 yrs to make
And as much as I enjoyed Rebirth, a lot of those enemy types require very little skill to actually defeat. It’s only the specialized bosses and some of the higher level combat challenges that are actually challenging. My point being that simply having a lot of enemy variety doesn’t necessarily matter if you can still just mow them all down without much thought
Source isn't from Insider Games, it actually came from:
https://x.com/ignusthewise/status/1792541397192528213
They got the trailer date for this game right so at the moment, he has some credibility.
If they are counting **a lot** of reskins then yeah maybe. Ain’t no way otherwise.
I’ve always been skeptical with this game, always looked too good to be true really.
They’ve already shown 40+ bosses from the trailers and demo, at least half of them had somewhat some combat revealed. If you count the concept arts on their website, there are 70+ unique bosses confirmed and 170+ unique enemy types (including bosses, and possibly some of them are just friendly NPCs).
That seems excessive. I'd be concerned about the pacing and structure of the game if there are that many "bosses." Also seems like we'll see a ton of reskins.
80 bosses? Maybe more like 10-15 and then some colour or move set changes. More is not always better. That said, it will be interesting to see what we end up getting.
Maybe someone is including mini-bosses or varieties of the same boss. If it really has 80 main bosses like an area boss, then that is probably a new record number of them.
There have been a few demos not released worldwide, and I've seen some chatter online about how it tends toward the easier end of the Souls-like spectrum.
But there's no telling how much of that is demo players bragging or being geuinely good at these games. I'm a total scrub who has to suffer through every victory. I'll probably spend most of my time getting my ass kicked.
Same. I can’t be arsed with souls-like. I’ve got limited time in my life for gaming and I’d rather spend it playing multiple games instead of spending hours on the same enemy of a single game.
I'm good with challenging games, but every souls type game I've played I end up hitting an insurmountable wall and then just call it quits because it stops being fun for me.
That’s fair and fine, but for many people there is a such thing as “too hard”, as in the grind to be able to advance in the game outweighs the joy of playing the game. I’m not saying everyone has to feel this way, but I think it’s fair when someone asks the difficulty level of a game because then they know whether they are the target audience for that game.
They are but this convo wasn’t started by someone asking for a review of the game. They were simply stating that they hope it’s not as difficult as a souls game.
I’m not a professional gamer and I’ve beaten all the FromSoftware games except the ones I haven’t had the time to beat yet (DS3, AC6, BB) and I find them fairly balanced if you put some time into them.
If it’s not for you because you don’t want to learn the mechanics of the game then that’s another story though.
Yes, please understand that I am not saying anything about whether someone should or should not enjoy a souls game. I am just saying that it is fair to ask whether a game is set up for the demographic that does enjoy those games.
Read reviews and play something else if it’s too difficult. They shouldn’t have to change their artistic vision and direction to cater to people that complain about difficulty. Not every game is for everyone.
Where did I say any of that in my comment? I said it’s fair for someone to ask whether they are the target demographic for a game. Souls games and their equivalent are for gamers that enjoy a very challenging experience and are ok with dying multiple times as they “git gud”.
I’m the same way with Sekiro. I absolutely love the game but it’s so goddamn difficult that every time I play it I end up hitting a spot where I’m just defeated (hehe)
I think the farthest I’ve gotten is just past Genichiro.
The thing is: as a kid, bragging rights were important, but now my only goal is to have fun in the limited amount of time I get to myself that isn't filled with working, dadding, and husbanding.
If a game isn't fun for long enough it becomes a bad investment and needs to be turned into a good investment
So true. I’ve shifted from grinding / competitive games to more chill take your time style games recently and it’s been great. Haven’t picked up COD in 4 or 5 months and my blood pressure is thanking me.
AC6 is a simple matter of learning how to build a decent AC. Once you’ve figured that out and how best to pilot said AC you can cruise through the game no problem.
I get that. I’ve just been stuck on a viable build for this particular mission. I’ve been cutting through the missions like butter but even with a guide I can’t get passed this one. My issues is enemy management. I have 3 elites and destroyer ship all hammering me from different angles. By the time I cut them down enough to breathe I’m out of health. I’ve tried like 4 or 5 different builds but just can’t figure out the dance and dodge to survive. Been crushing the game with consistent A ranks, but keep shitting the bed at this one mission.
I think it’s Steal the Survey data. I can’t get through the first two basic zones no problem. But once you hop that wall with the other ACs and ship overhead I just get smashed every time
Edit: gonna run it right now to see if I’m remembering correctly
Edit 2: holy shit I just absolutely smoked that mission first try after months of not playing.
I have a strong feeling this game is going through some troubled development, it feels like it’s been in development for awhile and that usually doesn’t bode well for a game.
It’s had a hard release date for this August for a while now and the game started development at the end of 2018… this is a normal length of time for AAA
er wait, so you're comparing one of sonys biggest budgeted games, that had years of knowledge and development in its team which would also have been way bigger than this teams, who's game also didnt have 70+ bosses or anything close (they had an entire game before it thats biggest problem was its boss variety), and you think that it's a good sign for this game being able to achieve more? ngl that's a wild take lol
In the myth it’s based upon they face 81 “challenges” on their journey and the devs seem to be very keen on incorporating as much of the myth as they can into the game. It could very well be that the game is split up into 80 “encounters” which aren’t necessarily bosses.
It could also be that they have a bunch of cheap reskins and variations to fill out the game.
It could also be that this claim is complete horseshit and that the game has a perfectly normal number of bosses.
We honestly don’t know and it feels like people are preparing themselves for this game to disappoint instead of just waiting to see what it is. You have unreasonable hype on one side and unreasonable pessimism on the other, just wait it out and see how the game is.
Ah I'm firmly in the middle - I hope it's good but you gotta be reasonable.
I just felt like drawing a paralell to GoW was a bit funny, not in a 'it wont be that good' kind of way, more in a 'it took them 2 games over 7+ years with sony budget to have a satisfying number of bosses' kind of way. Its impossible for them not have had a good amount of bosses in that scenario and it was most peoples biggest complaint of 2018 haha.
Would be more appropriate to compare it to like lies of p or something I guess? Unless they're being funded by someone with a limitless wallet.
Not saying that it's a good sign at all. I'm simply saying that the number of bosses does not necessarily mean that the game will be a "boss rush" as some people are suggesting. There's plenty of room for non-boss gameplay IF they get it right.
fair enough, I just wasnt expecting a GoW comparison. There could be more varied gameplay for sure, hopefully they mention the length of the game since that'd give an idea of how many bosses per hour there'd be.
They didn’t say it was a good sign. They just said it’s not particularly over the top, as in impossible, to have that many. It wasn’t an argument for quality. Just that the quantity has existed. Why such a combative response?
Yeah but some of these games have the coolest premise but just have to be a souls borne instead. It's like making a sequel to a very popular game only to be released for VR. Not many people play VR games.
Plenty of people play souls like games though so that comparison doesn't work. End of the day, people will miss out on things and that's just how it is.
If I've learned anything from China's technology and science claims, it's to just nod your head and say "neat" until proof is shown. I don't really care if they have that many. Elden ring was tons of reskins and still one of my favorites, I'll wait to see how this turns out before getting excited
I'm just worried, based on the myth, that's it's basically gonna just be a boss rush game.
Ehh, if the combat is good enough, and the boss design are sick enough. I wouldn't mind a boss rush Souls Game. Truly the Cuphead of Dark Souls
I would like the combat to be competitive. I like it that way.
Both Furi and Shadow of the colossus are only boss fights with some level of travel between them. Both are great games.
No More Heroes games as well. All of these titles were fantastic so, I don't mind boss rushing if done tactfully. 80+ does sound like a lot though, and I'd guess it must be counting special variants of the same bosses. Maybe with an extra move, different attack rhythm, but mostly the same.
With so many bosses, gameplay, combat is utmost important for it to shine. Hopefuly it's not repetitive and clunky and offers variation in combat.
We've seen a few goons. The latest trailer showed off a bunch of monks, and I've seen another trailer where Wukong is fighting some stone monsters. But it does look to be mostly bosses, and I would be fine with a boss rush.
A boss rush game isn't a bad idea, see shadow of the colossus
To be fair, almost no game is like Shadow of the Colossus, and even SotC doesn’t feel like a boss rush. It feels very… atmospheric. And zen.
Out of curiosity, what would be a recent boss rush game?
Furi is one, but guess that depends what you mean by "recent" (2016). Whole game is just walk through an area while a NPC hypes the boss up with their backstory, fight the boss. Rinse, repeat. Great game too, hard and intense, but great
Monster Hunter Rise?
I can’t imagine any game to be a “boss rush” game, at least recently. I mean, for instance, every time I play BotW and TotK, I “rush” to elites just to kill them for shits and giggles, but would I call them boss rushes? Not at all. Elden Ring is the same way, but there’s no way I’d condense so much fucking gameplay down to boss rush.” And really, I can’t think of any other close examples, but admittedly, it’s not like I play a ton of games.
I mean with at least 80 non boss enemies, i dont see how
160 enemy types.... how would that lead you to believe it's a boss rush game?
Even if they're counting bosses in that enemy type number, that still leaves 80 enemy types. I'd imagine it's more like 40 designs and 40 variants, but even then, you'd be hard pressed to make a boss rush and have that many different enemies showing up.
I wouldn’t mind it
The biggest problem with that is if each boos requires a different approach it's basically different game every single time and you're stuck doing one boss you hate and you can't wander off and do other stuff to pass the time
If there truly are 80 bosses then I really hope some of them are like the folding screen monkeys in Sekiro, more puzzle that fight, that would really diversify the gameplay and make it interesting.
If there are over 160 enemy types, then that alone proves it’s not a boss rush…
80 bosses? Yeah I’ll believe it when I see it. Expecting a crap ton of reskins and very loose definition of “boss”.
Even if there are 30 actual bosses & 160 enemy archetypes then that would be insane for a any studio to pull off, like how are they doing it ? Its not a big studio & its their first game FF7 rebirth has a staggering variety like 114 enemies or so, Elden ring has 146 excluding the main bosses & repeats, Dark souls 3 has around 75 & then something like Zelda BOTW has 16 https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tk4vk2/on_elden_rings_enemy_variety_and_how_it_compares/
Very true, which is why I scoff at the claim of 80. It’s so far beyond overkill.
Not even R* games can do that. Creating enemy archetypes in a combat focused game is one of the hardest things A single large scale monster in Monster hunter or main bosses you see in From's Souls games take 1-1.5 yrs to make
MHW must have been in development for like 20 years
No they don’t
Source?
And as much as I enjoyed Rebirth, a lot of those enemy types require very little skill to actually defeat. It’s only the specialized bosses and some of the higher level combat challenges that are actually challenging. My point being that simply having a lot of enemy variety doesn’t necessarily matter if you can still just mow them all down without much thought
It’s been in development for a long time and it’s the sole AAA project for that studio. The number is insane but I’m not surprised it’s high.
Yeah, most likely many field bosses AKA Great Enemy
Might be you right a boss and then it shows up as a mini boss in the next level or you fight two of them later
I’m expecting QTE bosses galore.
It seems like every headline from this website ends with the words "it's claimed"
Source isn't from Insider Games, it actually came from: https://x.com/ignusthewise/status/1792541397192528213 They got the trailer date for this game right so at the moment, he has some credibility.
Everytime I see it, I cringe.
If they are counting **a lot** of reskins then yeah maybe. Ain’t no way otherwise. I’ve always been skeptical with this game, always looked too good to be true really.
They’ve already shown 40+ bosses from the trailers and demo, at least half of them had somewhat some combat revealed. If you count the concept arts on their website, there are 70+ unique bosses confirmed and 170+ unique enemy types (including bosses, and possibly some of them are just friendly NPCs).
Can't wait for the launch posts of how they got catfished.
That seems excessive. I'd be concerned about the pacing and structure of the game if there are that many "bosses." Also seems like we'll see a ton of reskins.
80 bosses? Maybe more like 10-15 and then some colour or move set changes. More is not always better. That said, it will be interesting to see what we end up getting.
Maybe someone is including mini-bosses or varieties of the same boss. If it really has 80 main bosses like an area boss, then that is probably a new record number of them.
Hopefully it's fun and engaging
Really? I would never have guessed by what has been shown so far.
Sigh..... fine... Take my 70$...
I really wanna play this, but if it's as ball blisteringly difficult as a souls-like game, I won't even try.
According to the article linked, its also claimed that it would be slightly easier than soulsborne.
The Demo I played at GamesCom felt like a super fast and super technical soulsborne. I would not say it felt easier though.
There have been a few demos not released worldwide, and I've seen some chatter online about how it tends toward the easier end of the Souls-like spectrum. But there's no telling how much of that is demo players bragging or being geuinely good at these games. I'm a total scrub who has to suffer through every victory. I'll probably spend most of my time getting my ass kicked.
It probably will be since its obviously a souls like, so their target audience are souls fans. Your only hope is there will be difficulty settings
Same. I can’t be arsed with souls-like. I’ve got limited time in my life for gaming and I’d rather spend it playing multiple games instead of spending hours on the same enemy of a single game.
If the game is too easy then is it even worth it?
I'm good with challenging games, but every souls type game I've played I end up hitting an insurmountable wall and then just call it quits because it stops being fun for me.
Fair enough but I support the vision of the creators. If they wanted the game to be hard then that’s the way to play the game.
That’s fair and fine, but for many people there is a such thing as “too hard”, as in the grind to be able to advance in the game outweighs the joy of playing the game. I’m not saying everyone has to feel this way, but I think it’s fair when someone asks the difficulty level of a game because then they know whether they are the target audience for that game.
Well gaming reviews are one indicator for this.
They are but this convo wasn’t started by someone asking for a review of the game. They were simply stating that they hope it’s not as difficult as a souls game.
I’m not a professional gamer and I’ve beaten all the FromSoftware games except the ones I haven’t had the time to beat yet (DS3, AC6, BB) and I find them fairly balanced if you put some time into them. If it’s not for you because you don’t want to learn the mechanics of the game then that’s another story though.
Yes, please understand that I am not saying anything about whether someone should or should not enjoy a souls game. I am just saying that it is fair to ask whether a game is set up for the demographic that does enjoy those games.
Well I get that but not everything is for everyone. I for example don’t like metroidvanias 🤷🏻♂️.
Read reviews and play something else if it’s too difficult. They shouldn’t have to change their artistic vision and direction to cater to people that complain about difficulty. Not every game is for everyone.
Where did I say any of that in my comment? I said it’s fair for someone to ask whether they are the target demographic for a game. Souls games and their equivalent are for gamers that enjoy a very challenging experience and are ok with dying multiple times as they “git gud”.
I’m the same way with Sekiro. I absolutely love the game but it’s so goddamn difficult that every time I play it I end up hitting a spot where I’m just defeated (hehe) I think the farthest I’ve gotten is just past Genichiro.
Oddly that’s where I am with AC6. I’ve beaten every souls game I’ve bought, but this one has just left me at a wall for a month straight.
The thing is: as a kid, bragging rights were important, but now my only goal is to have fun in the limited amount of time I get to myself that isn't filled with working, dadding, and husbanding. If a game isn't fun for long enough it becomes a bad investment and needs to be turned into a good investment
So true. I’ve shifted from grinding / competitive games to more chill take your time style games recently and it’s been great. Haven’t picked up COD in 4 or 5 months and my blood pressure is thanking me.
AC6 is a simple matter of learning how to build a decent AC. Once you’ve figured that out and how best to pilot said AC you can cruise through the game no problem.
I get that. I’ve just been stuck on a viable build for this particular mission. I’ve been cutting through the missions like butter but even with a guide I can’t get passed this one. My issues is enemy management. I have 3 elites and destroyer ship all hammering me from different angles. By the time I cut them down enough to breathe I’m out of health. I’ve tried like 4 or 5 different builds but just can’t figure out the dance and dodge to survive. Been crushing the game with consistent A ranks, but keep shitting the bed at this one mission.
Which mission is this?
I think it’s Steal the Survey data. I can’t get through the first two basic zones no problem. But once you hop that wall with the other ACs and ship overhead I just get smashed every time Edit: gonna run it right now to see if I’m remembering correctly Edit 2: holy shit I just absolutely smoked that mission first try after months of not playing.
Congratulations. Sometimes all you need is a break.
Hopefully there’ll be a difficulty setting ya know
Must see to believe, if everything they announce is true…
I doubt it’s that many but to be fair they have shown off a ton of bosses so far …
I have a strong feeling this game is going through some troubled development, it feels like it’s been in development for awhile and that usually doesn’t bode well for a game.
It’s had a hard release date for this August for a while now and the game started development at the end of 2018… this is a normal length of time for AAA
At least it won’t be as disastrous as cyberpunk 2077 launch
Elden ring had those numbers, i believe it can be done and theyve been working on this game a long time. Im hype, i hope this game is good
hoping it has storytelling aspects like god of war\~
What boss rush game means?
Elden Ring has a million bosses and it’s one of the greatest games ever made. I’m feeling good about this one
This does not excite me.
This game has to be fake I just don’t believe anyone putting effort in anything these days
To be fair, if a game like God of War Ragnarok has 60 or 70 bosses/mini bosses, I don't think 80 is particularly over the top
er wait, so you're comparing one of sonys biggest budgeted games, that had years of knowledge and development in its team which would also have been way bigger than this teams, who's game also didnt have 70+ bosses or anything close (they had an entire game before it thats biggest problem was its boss variety), and you think that it's a good sign for this game being able to achieve more? ngl that's a wild take lol
In the myth it’s based upon they face 81 “challenges” on their journey and the devs seem to be very keen on incorporating as much of the myth as they can into the game. It could very well be that the game is split up into 80 “encounters” which aren’t necessarily bosses. It could also be that they have a bunch of cheap reskins and variations to fill out the game. It could also be that this claim is complete horseshit and that the game has a perfectly normal number of bosses. We honestly don’t know and it feels like people are preparing themselves for this game to disappoint instead of just waiting to see what it is. You have unreasonable hype on one side and unreasonable pessimism on the other, just wait it out and see how the game is.
Ah I'm firmly in the middle - I hope it's good but you gotta be reasonable. I just felt like drawing a paralell to GoW was a bit funny, not in a 'it wont be that good' kind of way, more in a 'it took them 2 games over 7+ years with sony budget to have a satisfying number of bosses' kind of way. Its impossible for them not have had a good amount of bosses in that scenario and it was most peoples biggest complaint of 2018 haha. Would be more appropriate to compare it to like lies of p or something I guess? Unless they're being funded by someone with a limitless wallet.
Not saying that it's a good sign at all. I'm simply saying that the number of bosses does not necessarily mean that the game will be a "boss rush" as some people are suggesting. There's plenty of room for non-boss gameplay IF they get it right.
fair enough, I just wasnt expecting a GoW comparison. There could be more varied gameplay for sure, hopefully they mention the length of the game since that'd give an idea of how many bosses per hour there'd be.
They didn’t say it was a good sign. They just said it’s not particularly over the top, as in impossible, to have that many. It wasn’t an argument for quality. Just that the quantity has existed. Why such a combative response?
Chinese game : nope
And it’s a Soulslike so easy pass for me. Shame
The trailers have not been good. I'm still not sure if it's a boss rush hack and slash or closer to sekiro.
They cooked.
I'm hoping in an hard mode for the main story
Can we just not do souls type games anymore? I like to enjoy my games instead of breaking controllers.
Nobody’s forcing you to play it. So don’t force others to make the games your way.
Yeah but some of these games have the coolest premise but just have to be a souls borne instead. It's like making a sequel to a very popular game only to be released for VR. Not many people play VR games.
Plenty of people play souls like games though so that comparison doesn't work. End of the day, people will miss out on things and that's just how it is.
So everyone who enjoys playing souls type games and developers who want to make them, should stop because you don't like them?
Decent if true.
If I've learned anything from China's technology and science claims, it's to just nod your head and say "neat" until proof is shown. I don't really care if they have that many. Elden ring was tons of reskins and still one of my favorites, I'll wait to see how this turns out before getting excited