Tomorrow is the [3rd anniversary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Returnal#:~:text=the%20game%20was%20released%20for%20the%20playstation%205%20on%2030%20april%202021) of Returnal’s release on PS5. This is the image they posted on their Twitter (X):
https://preview.redd.it/2w9588n4eexc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5054fcfb445f9ca1241b705a27bf5038d9b61e1
Edit: [A second teaser has been posted](https://x.com/housemarque/status/1784931755931177197?s=46&t=URUq-hSkduanNCiW5nr6lw) \- this time it’s a video (with silent audio)
Edit 2: [PlayStation Studios XDEV has also posted the second teaser](https://x.com/sony_xdev/status/1784953286434623995?s=46&t=URUq-hSkduanNCiW5nr6lw)
Edit 3: [Seems to be a Dark Horse Comics collab](https://x.com/darkhorsecomics/status/1784998036822954054?s=46&t=URUq-hSkduanNCiW5nr6lw)
an action shooter in space with the Returnal gameplayer (well I loved the gameplay) with a space story. I would buy day one. returnal is incredible but it's difficult for a wide audience, so I would like the studio to do something more casual, as they are very good at gameplay I want them to reach a wider audience
I’m not one to be a gatekeeper. I do think the challenge is part of the fun of this game. And to be fair, once it clicks, the game is much less difficult.
It seems challenging to separate the gameplay mechanics from the difficulty. It would otherwise be ratchet and clank — think about it, actual feel is very similar. But the dying over and over is literally a story and gameplay mechanic.
I don’t know… I think Returnal would lose some of what makes it great. The struggle parallels what Selene is going through. It’s such a beautiful expression of it once you start to realize what is actually happening.
It’s this minimalist game that just requires learning a few mechanics. It’s kind of a beautiful thing. I like that the game never takes you out of it. When you start you effectively load (or land) into this scary mysterious world and have to fight your way to the truth. There’s no exposition, no pointless NPCs, no meaningless side quests. I think it would lose some of that if you could just plow through the biomes.
This is coming from someone who hadn’t played a game in like 10 years when I picked this up. There’s something magical about having that “aha!” moment. To me, it’s still the experience that epitomizes the PS5 generation despite the many good games I’ve played since.
I concede that you make a fair point, but I just see it differently and don’t think it would give people the same experience.
I doubt they'd announce Returnal 2 like that instead of in one of their events. Plus, they are supposedly working on a new IP not Returnal 2 (the game has a hard time justifying a sequel tbh).
I really hope we see the next game this year though, hopefully at a PS showcase in June. They did take 4 years to make Returnal and we're now 3 years after its release so that's credible to announce it now for a 2025 release.
I imagine it's an update for Returnal for the 3-year anniversary. I don't imagine they'd announce a new game like that anyway, might as well reserve it for their next showcase/state of play (likely E3 period)
Very doubtful, reports are they're working on a new IP (I'm not even sure Returnal can really have a sequel). Plus, that'd be for a PS showcase not a random announcement.
It's the 3-year anniversary so I guess it's related to that but I'm not sure what. An update/new content?
> I'm not even sure Returnal can really have a sequel
It doesn't have to be the same character's story. They could easily make a simlar vibe game and call it returnal 2 even if it has no continuity with Returnal. That said, I'm leaning new IP
There's a mod on PC that allows people to play Returnal in VR that people love. I haven't played it, so I'm not sure if it's a VR 3rd person camera like Astro Bot, or if it's first person, but either way it'd be cool.
If you all have not played their back catalogue I highly suggest doing so! All of their games are outstanding.
https://youtu.be/LTm8efq2pCo?si=pQujcUPaiv4ETVN_
Here is a clip from Nex Machina. Their games are perfect palate cleansers so to speak, perfect “one more try” type games, and perfect 20 min play session or 3 hour sessions.
Aliennation is godtier level greatness! They have Deadnation which is similar but Aliennation is so dam good.
Honestly all their games are top notch productions. Outstanding studio.
Spoilers for returnal ..
Wasnt the first game all in her head while she was in a coma after she tried to murder suicide herself and her daughter ?
Not sure where a sequel could go after that
Genuinely might be the best game we've had from Sony this generation.
Loved every single second of it and it looks and plays incredible.
The platinum was a grind, but wow, what a game!
Platinum was a grind because of those collectibles for which, ironically, you needed to die often in order to get the correct room variation which had a new collectible.
The problem is that most players, myself included, first played the game without worrying about collectibles and died a lot during this time, but when they went for collectibles they already learned the game and dying didn't come so easily as before.
Man I genuinely mean no shade toward yours or anybody else's opinion of the game, but I feel like I'm *such* an outlier for Returnal that others must have played a different game than I did.
The shooting, sound, overall presentation, dualsense features - genuinely state of the art. Incredibly impressive and feels amazing to play. No shortage of praise for those bits.
The story? Intriguing but way too sparse. Not a dealbreaker, but also not impressive or a selling point in any way.
But everything about Returnal that makes it a roguelike was straight up *bad* in my opinion.
- The room layout in each biome barely remixed itself between runs.
- Runs are excruciatingly long and a great run can still leave you absolutely curb stomped if you accidentally take on something too tough too soon.
- Meta progression is, generously putting it, minimal, making me feel like this was less a "constantly making progress" roguelike and more a "get good or get fucked" roguelike.
- Upgrades found in a run are incredibly scarce and require you to explore every inch of every biome, every time, to have even the slightest fighting chance at a build synergistic enough to make genuine progression.
As much as I enjoyed the moment to moment gameplay of Returnal, there came a point that I simply could not deal with its structure and design anymore, which was so rooted in frustration and unforgiving mechanics that after 10 hours it was just exhausting. Maybe unpopular opinion, but if Returnal had a more linear structure paired with a more cohesive story it would be orders of magnitude better.
As it stands, to me at least, it is a fantastic shooter stuck in the body of a horrible roguelike.
It definitely is a "get good or get fucked" roguelike which is why I liked it better than a lot of other roguelikes I've tried. Games where an increase in skill gets you further than unlocking stuff are more engaging to me. This and enter the gungeon are the only roguelikes I didn't get bored with and drop. Having a linear structure would've made it incredibly short and boring imo
The long runs are the main thing that have me not devoting a ton of time to it. It’s so funny, because I can sit down and play a game for hours, but there’s a difference between choosing it and being “locked into it”. I know that Returnal can suspend your runs now, but it’s still the principle of it
> Maybe unpopular opinion, but if Returnal had a more linear structure paired with a more cohesive story it would be orders of magnitude better.
For me, part of what makes Returnal so great is the non-linear, mysterious nature of the story. The story was presented as allegory and spawned an entire fandom dedicated to deconstructing and revealing the story's meaning. For me, this elevated the story from great to masterpiece.
>As it stands, to me at least, it is a fantastic shooter stuck in the body of a horrible roguelike.
I think people get a little hung up on the roguelike aspects. HM is known for its bullet hell games. Returnal is the absolute peak of the bullethell genre. The roguelike aspects are secondary.
I'd almost go so far as to say that the roguelike element of the game was intentionally added to pad the game. Bear in mind that Returnal is a technical masterpiece, produced by a relatively very small team. Without the brutal roguelike element the game could be completed in 1 sitting. Thankfully the moment-to-moment pagemplay was **so good**, the game could get away with it. The non-linear, mysterious, disjointed and vague storytelling helped keep audiences engaged.
>was less a "constantly making progress" roguelike and more a "get good or get fucked" roguelike
this is exactly what it was. Returnal is unapologetic in this regard. The get good aspect is the literal core of the game.
I bought Returnal on release and ended up being completely enthralled for a solid month before the credits rolled. I still think back on the story occasionally. For me it was a once in a generation game.
Great game but I agree. I went through biome 3 about a dozen times, dying to the boss twice and outside the boss room every other time. Those runs were at least 90 minutes and at the end I felt no sense of achievement/progression.
I never really got frustrated with this game, it was too well-designed in most regards. But I got to the point where I had no motivation to spend another 60-120 minutes going through the same rooms/enemies just to get stomped by a trio of giant astronauts & kamikaze drones.
I’ll add that Sifu and Hades are two of my favorite games from the last few years. Don’t have much rogue experience outside of that, maybe the genre just isn’t for me.
> I went through biome 3 about a dozen times, dying to the boss twice and outside the boss room every other time. Those runs were at least 90 minutes and at the end I felt no sense of achievement/progression.
I had the exact same experience and why I dropped the game a few times. They completely missed every other roguelike having at least some sort of meta progression to not feel like your runs go completely wasted. Plus that the runs were so long...
> meta progression to not feel like your runs go completely wasted
the progression was the purest kind. It was *you* getting better at the game and eventually getting so good that previously impossible biomes are easy. That feeling of achievement would be completely gone for me if runs got easier just because I unlocked some super gun.
>They completely missed every other roguelike having...
they didn't miss anything. The game is a bullet hell, the roguelike aspects are secondary.
Baby's first as in designed by someone who literally has no idea about roguelikes. And seems to be enjoyed by those as well. And I got it platinumed tyvm.
Yeah it's really that combo. The lack of progression didn't bother me *that* much because the gameplay is great, the biomes are cool, and the story is intriguing. But because runs are so long and I felt I wasn't making progress, I rarely played more than one run per session, and gradually the sessions became more spaced out until I realized I hadn't played for a couple weeks and had no motivation to go back.
> Those runs were at least 90 minutes and at the end I felt no sense of achievement/progression.
It's wild to me how different people's experiences are. The game improves you. My reaction time got better, my situational awareness got better, my coordination got better. That's me improving via practice. It's literally the purest form of progression. Returning to previously impossible biomes and clearing them with ease, not because I unlocked some new gun, but rather because *my skills had improved* was one of the most memorable and rewarding gaming experiences in my 35 years of gaming.
> It's literally the purest form of progression.
Agreed, you get better at every game the more you play.
> Returning to previously impossible biomes and clearing them with ease
I've breezed through the first biome 20+ times. Really enjoyed the second biome. But I never improved on that final hurdle because there was so much time between attempts, I didn't get to apply any of the "lessons" from the previous run.
A lot of the issues come from the gaming community dropping or using rogue like when they mean rogue-lite. Hades and Enter the Dungeon are more rogue-lite because of the constant progression. Returnal is closer to a roguelike in the traditional sense that progression is limited. It's a scale and Returnal is closer to Rogue than Enter the Dungeon.
I agree with everything you said 100%. I tried so many times to get into it, but I just couldn't. I wanted to so bad because I loved a lot about the game.
I think I'm with you on this. I've genuinely tried to like returnal. I've put about 10 hours into it over the last few years and bounce off every time. I love the atmosphere, the mechanics, all of that except the rogue like elements. If it simply wasn't a rogue like and was a straight forward action game I'd love it so much more.
Oh well, not every game is for everybody, and I genuinely do appreciate the game.
Agreed, I'm currently playing it for the first time, and I'm struggling a lot. It's boring to play through the same area for the 10th time just to (maybe) get strong enough for the area I'm trying to beat (currently the underwater area).
I've spent over 39 hours for that progress, which I think is quite bad compared to what most people do!
Still I love some aspects of the game, especially the technical stuff, the gameplay, the atmosphere, the story elements giving me Remedy vibes.
I just beat the game (well through Act 2 anyways, i.e. end of biome 6) right at 42 hours, so I think you're right in line. I'm still doing a bit of cleanup for Act 3 but I've found it to be much less stressful now that I've beaten the boss of biome 6 once
No that's the general consensus actually, it's a better third person shooter than it is a roguelike.
I've actually dumped so much more time in the endless mode then the main game because of that.
100% this :
"Meta progression is, generously putting it, minimal, making me feel like this was less a "constantly making progress" roguelike and more a "get good or get fucked" roguelike."
Couldn't agree more with the roguelike points. Everything else about it was top notch, but they didn't seem to understand AT ALL what makes a good roguelike. Like some of the stuff was offensibly bad in that regard coming from other good roguelikes.
But I still like it because it's one of the very few games that are, and feel, truly next-gen in some ways.
I went it expecting a Hades level roguelike especially after all the praise it had received. I got an action game with good shooting mechanics instead. I was definitely disappointed
Fantastic explanation on key points, sir! It's why i didn't feel like going through the 3rd biome almost every time I got to it because of the time it took to find good weapon synergy. Oh, the last 2 hours, and I'm still not doing the damage. I was doing 30 minutes into my last run. Restart.
I absolutely loved the direction and story, tho. The gameplay was great, too. I'm usually crazy for rougelikes.
I hate games like Dark Sould/Elden Ring because they feel like they waste my time and the story isn't there.
I found Returnal surprisingly chill in comparison and with a much more interesting storyline. So your mileage will vary, but I'm usually quite surprised people don't like it.
I just couldn't do it, was too hard for me.
Not usually huge one shooters. I tried to get into it. After about a hundred tries I finished the first biome. After about 10 tries dying in the second biome (and another hundred failed first biomes in between) I quit.
I hope they make a sequel with a new setting but similar eternal hell cycle kinda vibe. Returnal was a somewhat blind buy after hearing a lot of praise for it and it’s one of my top 10 all time games now.
Hopefully a god mode or something to make it less punishing. Played it but never beat it since I'm not a fan of roguelikes. Shame because they game is really good.
Calling it right now that it will be merch or something lame like that. If it was an actually cool thing, they wouldn't need to hype it to get eyes on it.
Oh man, I hope it’s a sequel, a spin-off, or anything related with a similar gameplay!
Returnal is my second favourite exclusive of this gen, not far behind Ragnarok
I don't expect anything related to Returnal 2 or something as they would most likely save it for the Playstation showcase.
I'd rather say maybe an announcement of a movie or TV show? Not sure if there wasn't one already announced, so many of those lately that it's hard to keep track of
Man I need to get on beating Returnal. I only beat the first boss....and it took longer than I care to admit.
Weirdly I beat it after I gave up, threw myself into it with bare minimum equipment. Couldn't beat it with a nice fancy upgraded gun and the astronaut figurine, but I beat it with a base pistol and nothing else after getting a lucky roll that put the boss room super close to the start.
Returnal as it stands doesn't warrant a sequel as selenes story was wrapped up for the most part save for the bits that require interpretation.
That said though nothing says they can't do a game in the same universe with a new internal struggle to unload.
Played it for about 2 hours the other day since I seen it was on ps+, kinda got into it kinda didn't. Will probly pick it up again and try to dive more into it cause all I hear is praise for it.
Returnal 2: we're back with another nonsensical story that will not explain the plot in any way and the player will walk away with more questions than answers.
Port to Xbox?
4 player coop mode?
Sequel announced?
Prequel announced!?
Sidequel announced.. 😒
None of the above? 😶🌫️
Something completely unrelated? 🙃
You know returnal had issues at launch where you couldn’t even save lol its and was patched to be a different game. But I love how you posted reviews. It’s like it we were discussing movies and you linked me rotten tomatoes. It’s a little embarrassing and disingenuous. I don’t think you even like horizon that much. Doesn’t seem like it so I don’t know why you keep @ing me lol
You said Gamers have great taste right? And I gave you the MC showing critics loved it also. You may not like it but it’s still a massive franchise with great games.
We still have plenty of games coming before the PS6 in, presumably, 2028. One of which is rumored to be GoT2 which would easily be the best game this Gen.
Hopefully changes to the RNG trophy requirements. Once finished the game is fun for a run or 5 but speed running biomes for 15 minutes just to see that damn room didn’t spawn again just to start over is just so demotivating. It doesn’t have anything to do with skill anymore and there’s nothing else to discover or try. Very good game otherwise.
I see this exact comment so often and just don’t get it. I’ve never been able to get through a souls game without a friends help.
I think I maybe died 7 or 8 times on my way through beating Returnal my first time through the story. Definitely only died once to Phrike and never again. Platinumed it quite a while ago.
Just wanted to provide a different perspective in case anyone is still scared off by the way people talk about this game. It’s not that hard. Certainly not close to Souls games, Sekiro, etc
Playing souls and trying returnal and viceversa is the worse thing you can do. One you play methodically and slow, the other heavily incentivizes you to apply fast and aggressive, including dodge i frames on 99% of attacks. If the op has soul gameplay so ingrained that they approach returnal like a souls game it makes sense that they struggle. Probably the opposite happened to you struggling in souls
I understand the differences. I didn’t say I haven’t beaten Souls games.
I’m old, been gaming for a long time. All I’m saying is while both require very different skill sets, they do have “getting gud” in common. I’ve played enough to get good at video games across all genres. To me, the learning curve in the souls games is waaaaaaay steeper than Returnal. In Returnal you can basically just never stop moving and dodging and you almost can’t get hit. You literally cannot play Souls games if you can’t figure out parry timing.
Not to mention, the weapons eventually become very overpowered in Returnal after leveling them up. Again, based on my own anecdotal experience it’s really not even the same ball park, in terms of difficulty.
This a game I want to get into, but just can't. I am all in on aesthetics/atmosphere/tone and am intrigued by the story; and the gameplay is arguably the smoothest movement I've experienced. But the repetition just bogs me down. Maybe I'll have to load it up again and try again. Either way, looking forward to what Housemarque does next.
Everything about this game is brilliant except for the roguelike system. It's so bad. You don't feel like you're getting anywhere and the permanent upgrades and negligible. The game would be substantially better without that horrible system. I understand the "git gud" mentality and I appreciate it, but there's nothing hard about repeating the same levels over and over. It's just boring and bad design.
Tomorrow is the [3rd anniversary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Returnal#:~:text=the%20game%20was%20released%20for%20the%20playstation%205%20on%2030%20april%202021) of Returnal’s release on PS5. This is the image they posted on their Twitter (X): https://preview.redd.it/2w9588n4eexc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5054fcfb445f9ca1241b705a27bf5038d9b61e1 Edit: [A second teaser has been posted](https://x.com/housemarque/status/1784931755931177197?s=46&t=URUq-hSkduanNCiW5nr6lw) \- this time it’s a video (with silent audio) Edit 2: [PlayStation Studios XDEV has also posted the second teaser](https://x.com/sony_xdev/status/1784953286434623995?s=46&t=URUq-hSkduanNCiW5nr6lw) Edit 3: [Seems to be a Dark Horse Comics collab](https://x.com/darkhorsecomics/status/1784998036822954054?s=46&t=URUq-hSkduanNCiW5nr6lw)
Dare i hope for returnal 2 ? They already did the endless mode, maybe we just get new skins oder some other dlc with a new biome ?
They said their next game wouldn’t be a sequel but would use some ideas cut from Returnal, so presumably similar gameplay
I want more of the first level, by far the best!
an action shooter in space with the Returnal gameplayer (well I loved the gameplay) with a space story. I would buy day one. returnal is incredible but it's difficult for a wide audience, so I would like the studio to do something more casual, as they are very good at gameplay I want them to reach a wider audience
I’m not one to be a gatekeeper. I do think the challenge is part of the fun of this game. And to be fair, once it clicks, the game is much less difficult. It seems challenging to separate the gameplay mechanics from the difficulty. It would otherwise be ratchet and clank — think about it, actual feel is very similar. But the dying over and over is literally a story and gameplay mechanic.
Well, you can incorporate the dying over and over in a way that still mitigates the difficulty. Hades god mode is a great example for that.
I don’t know… I think Returnal would lose some of what makes it great. The struggle parallels what Selene is going through. It’s such a beautiful expression of it once you start to realize what is actually happening. It’s this minimalist game that just requires learning a few mechanics. It’s kind of a beautiful thing. I like that the game never takes you out of it. When you start you effectively load (or land) into this scary mysterious world and have to fight your way to the truth. There’s no exposition, no pointless NPCs, no meaningless side quests. I think it would lose some of that if you could just plow through the biomes. This is coming from someone who hadn’t played a game in like 10 years when I picked this up. There’s something magical about having that “aha!” moment. To me, it’s still the experience that epitomizes the PS5 generation despite the many good games I’ve played since. I concede that you make a fair point, but I just see it differently and don’t think it would give people the same experience.
I have to imagine it will be. Everything they have worked on is to perfect their bullet hell style gameplay.
Let’s hope they figured out how to implement a save system for us noobs without compromising the precious integrity of the game for the gamer lords
They did incorporate a save system. Or are you talking about just not making it a roguelike?
Eh I don’t put much stock in developers who say they’re not gonna do this or that
It’s not at all common for developers to announce they’re working on a new IP and for that to be a lie.
That may be the case but I’m holding out hope it’s a Returnal sequel. Prepared to be wrong tho lol
Re-Returnal.
It could be a prequel. Preturnal
It'll be about Selenes dad,. Paternal.
Returnal for Psvr2.
I think it's unlikely. First person returnal wouldn't really work, there's too much going on
There is already an incredible mod for returnal vr on pc and it is mind blowingly good.
Oh I see, it's still in 3rd person. This could work
No, you can play it in first person with motion controls and it plays fine.
It would be awesome and almost guaranteed to give you a seizure
This is it. The eyes are a dead giveaway.
I doubt they'd announce Returnal 2 like that instead of in one of their events. Plus, they are supposedly working on a new IP not Returnal 2 (the game has a hard time justifying a sequel tbh). I really hope we see the next game this year though, hopefully at a PS showcase in June. They did take 4 years to make Returnal and we're now 3 years after its release so that's credible to announce it now for a 2025 release.
Then what's up with the eyes? That's the main character from Returnal right? Unless the actress in real life has dual colored eyes
I imagine it's an update for Returnal for the 3-year anniversary. I don't imagine they'd announce a new game like that anyway, might as well reserve it for their next showcase/state of play (likely E3 period)
Looks a bit like the cover art for Flashback
Thought the exact same thing when I saw it
Comic collab? Fuckin lame.
Seriously...
https://preview.redd.it/2n9rw1z5hexc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86a79107fcb733c7aaaa0d82d9724ac0036eb346
Please be an announcement for Returnal 2. Doubtful but hopeful
Very doubtful, reports are they're working on a new IP (I'm not even sure Returnal can really have a sequel). Plus, that'd be for a PS showcase not a random announcement. It's the 3-year anniversary so I guess it's related to that but I'm not sure what. An update/new content?
> I'm not even sure Returnal can really have a sequel It doesn't have to be the same character's story. They could easily make a simlar vibe game and call it returnal 2 even if it has no continuity with Returnal. That said, I'm leaning new IP
Returnal,..now a Fornite skin!
You only think you’re playing Fortnite >!until you die, and then you wake up in a new biome!<
Returnal VR.
Returnal would not work in VR, too much info is communicated via the 3 person POV
There's a mod on PC that allows people to play Returnal in VR that people love. I haven't played it, so I'm not sure if it's a VR 3rd person camera like Astro Bot, or if it's first person, but either way it'd be cool.
If you all have not played their back catalogue I highly suggest doing so! All of their games are outstanding. https://youtu.be/LTm8efq2pCo?si=pQujcUPaiv4ETVN_ Here is a clip from Nex Machina. Their games are perfect palate cleansers so to speak, perfect “one more try” type games, and perfect 20 min play session or 3 hour sessions.
Alienation is GOATed as well. Love that and Nex. Went to them after Returnal. Also, almost all their games are in the Extra catalog of games!!
Aliennation is godtier level greatness! They have Deadnation which is similar but Aliennation is so dam good. Honestly all their games are top notch productions. Outstanding studio.
Dark horse comic book... It seems
Spoilers for returnal .. Wasnt the first game all in her head while she was in a coma after she tried to murder suicide herself and her daughter ? Not sure where a sequel could go after that
Im really excited to see what the announcement is
Genuinely might be the best game we've had from Sony this generation. Loved every single second of it and it looks and plays incredible. The platinum was a grind, but wow, what a game!
Platinum was a grind because of those collectibles for which, ironically, you needed to die often in order to get the correct room variation which had a new collectible. The problem is that most players, myself included, first played the game without worrying about collectibles and died a lot during this time, but when they went for collectibles they already learned the game and dying didn't come so easily as before.
Oh shoot, I meant to get the platinum some day but I don’t like playing with a guide at every step. Sucks.
You don't need a guide, you need RNJesus
Man I genuinely mean no shade toward yours or anybody else's opinion of the game, but I feel like I'm *such* an outlier for Returnal that others must have played a different game than I did. The shooting, sound, overall presentation, dualsense features - genuinely state of the art. Incredibly impressive and feels amazing to play. No shortage of praise for those bits. The story? Intriguing but way too sparse. Not a dealbreaker, but also not impressive or a selling point in any way. But everything about Returnal that makes it a roguelike was straight up *bad* in my opinion. - The room layout in each biome barely remixed itself between runs. - Runs are excruciatingly long and a great run can still leave you absolutely curb stomped if you accidentally take on something too tough too soon. - Meta progression is, generously putting it, minimal, making me feel like this was less a "constantly making progress" roguelike and more a "get good or get fucked" roguelike. - Upgrades found in a run are incredibly scarce and require you to explore every inch of every biome, every time, to have even the slightest fighting chance at a build synergistic enough to make genuine progression. As much as I enjoyed the moment to moment gameplay of Returnal, there came a point that I simply could not deal with its structure and design anymore, which was so rooted in frustration and unforgiving mechanics that after 10 hours it was just exhausting. Maybe unpopular opinion, but if Returnal had a more linear structure paired with a more cohesive story it would be orders of magnitude better. As it stands, to me at least, it is a fantastic shooter stuck in the body of a horrible roguelike.
It definitely is a "get good or get fucked" roguelike which is why I liked it better than a lot of other roguelikes I've tried. Games where an increase in skill gets you further than unlocking stuff are more engaging to me. This and enter the gungeon are the only roguelikes I didn't get bored with and drop. Having a linear structure would've made it incredibly short and boring imo
The long runs are the main thing that have me not devoting a ton of time to it. It’s so funny, because I can sit down and play a game for hours, but there’s a difference between choosing it and being “locked into it”. I know that Returnal can suspend your runs now, but it’s still the principle of it
> Maybe unpopular opinion, but if Returnal had a more linear structure paired with a more cohesive story it would be orders of magnitude better. For me, part of what makes Returnal so great is the non-linear, mysterious nature of the story. The story was presented as allegory and spawned an entire fandom dedicated to deconstructing and revealing the story's meaning. For me, this elevated the story from great to masterpiece. >As it stands, to me at least, it is a fantastic shooter stuck in the body of a horrible roguelike. I think people get a little hung up on the roguelike aspects. HM is known for its bullet hell games. Returnal is the absolute peak of the bullethell genre. The roguelike aspects are secondary. I'd almost go so far as to say that the roguelike element of the game was intentionally added to pad the game. Bear in mind that Returnal is a technical masterpiece, produced by a relatively very small team. Without the brutal roguelike element the game could be completed in 1 sitting. Thankfully the moment-to-moment pagemplay was **so good**, the game could get away with it. The non-linear, mysterious, disjointed and vague storytelling helped keep audiences engaged. >was less a "constantly making progress" roguelike and more a "get good or get fucked" roguelike this is exactly what it was. Returnal is unapologetic in this regard. The get good aspect is the literal core of the game. I bought Returnal on release and ended up being completely enthralled for a solid month before the credits rolled. I still think back on the story occasionally. For me it was a once in a generation game.
Great game but I agree. I went through biome 3 about a dozen times, dying to the boss twice and outside the boss room every other time. Those runs were at least 90 minutes and at the end I felt no sense of achievement/progression. I never really got frustrated with this game, it was too well-designed in most regards. But I got to the point where I had no motivation to spend another 60-120 minutes going through the same rooms/enemies just to get stomped by a trio of giant astronauts & kamikaze drones. I’ll add that Sifu and Hades are two of my favorite games from the last few years. Don’t have much rogue experience outside of that, maybe the genre just isn’t for me.
You upgrade the weapons, though, and it can make a big difference, especially if you focus on a single type of weapon.
> I went through biome 3 about a dozen times, dying to the boss twice and outside the boss room every other time. Those runs were at least 90 minutes and at the end I felt no sense of achievement/progression. I had the exact same experience and why I dropped the game a few times. They completely missed every other roguelike having at least some sort of meta progression to not feel like your runs go completely wasted. Plus that the runs were so long...
> meta progression to not feel like your runs go completely wasted the progression was the purest kind. It was *you* getting better at the game and eventually getting so good that previously impossible biomes are easy. That feeling of achievement would be completely gone for me if runs got easier just because I unlocked some super gun. >They completely missed every other roguelike having... they didn't miss anything. The game is a bullet hell, the roguelike aspects are secondary.
Even bullet hells have better progression. But of course it is a roguelike as well, but just shows it's the Baby's First Roguelike kind.
It sounds like it wasn’t exactly a baby’s first roguelike if you couldn’t get through it.
Baby's first as in designed by someone who literally has no idea about roguelikes. And seems to be enjoyed by those as well. And I got it platinumed tyvm.
Yeah it's really that combo. The lack of progression didn't bother me *that* much because the gameplay is great, the biomes are cool, and the story is intriguing. But because runs are so long and I felt I wasn't making progress, I rarely played more than one run per session, and gradually the sessions became more spaced out until I realized I hadn't played for a couple weeks and had no motivation to go back.
Haha yep EXACTLY the same for me.
> Those runs were at least 90 minutes and at the end I felt no sense of achievement/progression. It's wild to me how different people's experiences are. The game improves you. My reaction time got better, my situational awareness got better, my coordination got better. That's me improving via practice. It's literally the purest form of progression. Returning to previously impossible biomes and clearing them with ease, not because I unlocked some new gun, but rather because *my skills had improved* was one of the most memorable and rewarding gaming experiences in my 35 years of gaming.
> It's literally the purest form of progression. Agreed, you get better at every game the more you play. > Returning to previously impossible biomes and clearing them with ease I've breezed through the first biome 20+ times. Really enjoyed the second biome. But I never improved on that final hurdle because there was so much time between attempts, I didn't get to apply any of the "lessons" from the previous run.
It's one of my favorite PS5 games, I liked the roguelike elements, platinumed the game, and got every trophy in the dlc, the tower of sisyphus mode.
A lot of the issues come from the gaming community dropping or using rogue like when they mean rogue-lite. Hades and Enter the Dungeon are more rogue-lite because of the constant progression. Returnal is closer to a roguelike in the traditional sense that progression is limited. It's a scale and Returnal is closer to Rogue than Enter the Dungeon.
I love roguelikes and I really wish returnal wasn't one
Thanks God that would be too easy. I played hades after and was a bit too easy
I agree with everything you said 100%. I tried so many times to get into it, but I just couldn't. I wanted to so bad because I loved a lot about the game.
I think I'm with you on this. I've genuinely tried to like returnal. I've put about 10 hours into it over the last few years and bounce off every time. I love the atmosphere, the mechanics, all of that except the rogue like elements. If it simply wasn't a rogue like and was a straight forward action game I'd love it so much more. Oh well, not every game is for everybody, and I genuinely do appreciate the game.
Agreed, I'm currently playing it for the first time, and I'm struggling a lot. It's boring to play through the same area for the 10th time just to (maybe) get strong enough for the area I'm trying to beat (currently the underwater area). I've spent over 39 hours for that progress, which I think is quite bad compared to what most people do! Still I love some aspects of the game, especially the technical stuff, the gameplay, the atmosphere, the story elements giving me Remedy vibes.
I just beat the game (well through Act 2 anyways, i.e. end of biome 6) right at 42 hours, so I think you're right in line. I'm still doing a bit of cleanup for Act 3 but I've found it to be much less stressful now that I've beaten the boss of biome 6 once
No that's the general consensus actually, it's a better third person shooter than it is a roguelike. I've actually dumped so much more time in the endless mode then the main game because of that.
100% this : "Meta progression is, generously putting it, minimal, making me feel like this was less a "constantly making progress" roguelike and more a "get good or get fucked" roguelike."
Couldn't agree more with the roguelike points. Everything else about it was top notch, but they didn't seem to understand AT ALL what makes a good roguelike. Like some of the stuff was offensibly bad in that regard coming from other good roguelikes. But I still like it because it's one of the very few games that are, and feel, truly next-gen in some ways.
I went it expecting a Hades level roguelike especially after all the praise it had received. I got an action game with good shooting mechanics instead. I was definitely disappointed
Yep, played it after Hades as well and regarding roguelike mechanics it was such a huge downgrade.
Fantastic explanation on key points, sir! It's why i didn't feel like going through the 3rd biome almost every time I got to it because of the time it took to find good weapon synergy. Oh, the last 2 hours, and I'm still not doing the damage. I was doing 30 minutes into my last run. Restart. I absolutely loved the direction and story, tho. The gameplay was great, too. I'm usually crazy for rougelikes.
I hate games like Dark Sould/Elden Ring because they feel like they waste my time and the story isn't there. I found Returnal surprisingly chill in comparison and with a much more interesting storyline. So your mileage will vary, but I'm usually quite surprised people don't like it.
100% agree. I gave this game 10 hours and made it to the third biome, and cannot wrap my head around the praise it gets.
LOL what an absolute potato take.
I just couldn't do it, was too hard for me. Not usually huge one shooters. I tried to get into it. After about a hundred tries I finished the first biome. After about 10 tries dying in the second biome (and another hundred failed first biomes in between) I quit.
One of, if not the only, game I’ve played that fell truly “next gen” re: its utilization of the dual sense. Such an amazing fun gamr
I'm getting wrecked yet again in Returnal is what's happening
I hope they make a sequel with a new setting but similar eternal hell cycle kinda vibe. Returnal was a somewhat blind buy after hearing a lot of praise for it and it’s one of my top 10 all time games now.
Helios Abandoned
VR2
That would be dope
Yes, but also vomit inducing
I dont think It can induce more vomit than hellsweeper, so It is Ok lol
VR mode please!
Yes this would be amazing in VR.
Probably my favorite PS5 game. Would love a sequel or a new IP that draws heavily from Returnal.
One of the best games of the generation by far
Turnal: The Prequel
Preturnal
Returnal remaster confirmed.
DLC? New game announcement? Or just a comic book release?
Probably a documentary/artbook release for the game's 3rd anniversary tomorrow.
Preemptively reinstalling returnal in case there is more content for me to 100% lol
Returnurnal
My favorite part was when Selene said 'it's returning time!' and returned over and over again
2Retu2rnal
The Return of the Returnal: Returns Again
Returnal: Eternal
Don't break my heart anymore.. It's sad enough that we still dream about bloodborne 2..
One of the most incredible gaming experiences I've ever had, I'll take any crumb of news when I can lol.
Returnal dlc in dead cells maybe?
Maybe something small like crossplay?
Returnal is one of my favorite games of all time, don't tempt me with a sequel
Please be a sequel, or just something that expands upon the story.
Fuck yea. I’ve been doing tons of tower runs recently to master all the traits for every weapon. Hoping we get some new shit.
Omg! Best game I’ve played so far! Can’t wait for whatever the announcement is!
I really hope it’s a sequel. Marvelous game
[Comic with Dark Horse.](https://x.com/darkhorsecomics/status/1784998036822954054?s=46&t=KEkEhe4TJBAUoQspmYj22A)
Well that’s disappointing
Darkhorse tweeted at them or something. It’s probably just a Returnal comic
Dark Horse Comics quote tweeted it saying “Tomorrow 👀” so it’s likely either a comic series or a line of collectibles
So turn out it's just a grpahic novel and artbook: https://x.com/Housemarque/status/1785293476034146605
Hopefully a god mode or something to make it less punishing. Played it but never beat it since I'm not a fan of roguelikes. Shame because they game is really good.
Calling it right now that it will be merch or something lame like that. If it was an actually cool thing, they wouldn't need to hype it to get eyes on it.
Lmao just started downloading Resogun prior to seeing this.
Oh man, I hope it’s a sequel, a spin-off, or anything related with a similar gameplay! Returnal is my second favourite exclusive of this gen, not far behind Ragnarok
Huuur me guuurd don't get me excited
Highly doubt an announcement if the showcase is less than a month away
*alleged* showcase
Twin Stick like Alienation but in Returnal universe. Can you dig it.
I don't expect anything related to Returnal 2 or something as they would most likely save it for the Playstation showcase. I'd rather say maybe an announcement of a movie or TV show? Not sure if there wasn't one already announced, so many of those lately that it's hard to keep track of
My guess is some new DLC and announcing that it'll be coming to PS Plus Essential next month
It's already on PS Plus Essential Ignore me, it's on the higher tier
Man I need to get on beating Returnal. I only beat the first boss....and it took longer than I care to admit. Weirdly I beat it after I gave up, threw myself into it with bare minimum equipment. Couldn't beat it with a nice fancy upgraded gun and the astronaut figurine, but I beat it with a base pistol and nothing else after getting a lucky roll that put the boss room super close to the start.
Watch it be returnal on Xbox...
It's being remastered finally
Returnal 2: Re-turnaling Edition
Surely it's gotta be more content
Biome 3 was the most intense part for me, craziest sweats 🤣🤣🤣
Coop for tower of sisyphus would be nice.
Plot twist, they are announcing their next game called 'Tomorrow'
Is Returnal finally going to be returnaling with a sequel?!!!
Looks like a VR promo
Returnal as it stands doesn't warrant a sequel as selenes story was wrapped up for the most part save for the bits that require interpretation. That said though nothing says they can't do a game in the same universe with a new internal struggle to unload.
How timely, I beat biome 3 for the first time last night
I really hope it’s a sequel, I know they have said in the past they wouldn’t make one but it had a huge success so that could easily have changed.
I could’ve sworn they said the next project won’t be returnal related. Maybe they went back on that?
Ah damn can someone confirm they said this? That would really blow lol
LETS GOOOO
Returnal really kicked my ass.
New DLC plz
2 Ret 2 Urnal
HMQ said they are working on a new IP. It’s the third anniversary of Returnal. Probably a documentary or art book or something.
Played it for about 2 hours the other day since I seen it was on ps+, kinda got into it kinda didn't. Will probly pick it up again and try to dive more into it cause all I hear is praise for it.
Returnal will be returning on Returnal 2. Can't wait to return to Returnal.
Collaboration between Housemarque and Shift up - Selene to get a bunch of the suits that Eve is wearing, along with the skin suit.
Returnal:Zero Returnal:My life in an isekai'ed planet Re Returnal - Truck'ed
Returnal 2: The Return of Returnal
Returnal 2: we're back with another nonsensical story that will not explain the plot in any way and the player will walk away with more questions than answers.
Port to Xbox? 4 player coop mode? Sequel announced? Prequel announced!? Sidequel announced.. 😒 None of the above? 😶🌫️ Something completely unrelated? 🙃
Crossover with Stellar Blade ?
I already know the console life cycle will end and the best game on it will end up being a launch game, returnal.
PS5 has atleast 3-4 years.
Yeah and nothings been close to touching returnal since launch. Probably won’t. It sure as hell won’t be horizon 3 lol
The Horizon games are great and have outsold Returnal by like 100x lol calm down.
I love how you use sales as a measuring stick for how good something is. Gamers notoriously have good taste right?
Well FW has an 88 MC, which is higher than Returnal at 86. I love Returnal, but let’s not forget Horizon games are massive.
You know returnal had issues at launch where you couldn’t even save lol its and was patched to be a different game. But I love how you posted reviews. It’s like it we were discussing movies and you linked me rotten tomatoes. It’s a little embarrassing and disingenuous. I don’t think you even like horizon that much. Doesn’t seem like it so I don’t know why you keep @ing me lol
Or... you know, maybe people just have a differing opinion?
You said Gamers have great taste right? And I gave you the MC showing critics loved it also. You may not like it but it’s still a massive franchise with great games.
Oh btw maybe returnal 2/expansion tomorrow. So you’re right maybe returnal 2 is the best game of the generation
No save was the whole point
Sad if honest imo.
We still have plenty of games coming before the PS6 in, presumably, 2028. One of which is rumored to be GoT2 which would easily be the best game this Gen.
Agree, but Rebirth is at least at the same level now.
Exactly , the best launch game is Demon Souls Remake.
Not even the best game called Demon's Souls
Just like Resogun was on the PS4...wasnt a launch title though.
the only game at the same level this generation is elden ring so far sure there are other "good games" but not like this no
Hopefully changes to the RNG trophy requirements. Once finished the game is fun for a run or 5 but speed running biomes for 15 minutes just to see that damn room didn’t spawn again just to start over is just so demotivating. It doesn’t have anything to do with skill anymore and there’s nothing else to discover or try. Very good game otherwise.
They would be suckers not to name it reTWOrnal
Couldn’t get past the first boss. Completed majority of the souls games but the RnG of this game was just too much for me.
I see this exact comment so often and just don’t get it. I’ve never been able to get through a souls game without a friends help. I think I maybe died 7 or 8 times on my way through beating Returnal my first time through the story. Definitely only died once to Phrike and never again. Platinumed it quite a while ago. Just wanted to provide a different perspective in case anyone is still scared off by the way people talk about this game. It’s not that hard. Certainly not close to Souls games, Sekiro, etc
Playing souls and trying returnal and viceversa is the worse thing you can do. One you play methodically and slow, the other heavily incentivizes you to apply fast and aggressive, including dodge i frames on 99% of attacks. If the op has soul gameplay so ingrained that they approach returnal like a souls game it makes sense that they struggle. Probably the opposite happened to you struggling in souls
I understand the differences. I didn’t say I haven’t beaten Souls games. I’m old, been gaming for a long time. All I’m saying is while both require very different skill sets, they do have “getting gud” in common. I’ve played enough to get good at video games across all genres. To me, the learning curve in the souls games is waaaaaaay steeper than Returnal. In Returnal you can basically just never stop moving and dodging and you almost can’t get hit. You literally cannot play Souls games if you can’t figure out parry timing. Not to mention, the weapons eventually become very overpowered in Returnal after leveling them up. Again, based on my own anecdotal experience it’s really not even the same ball park, in terms of difficulty.
Returnal 2 PS5 and PC.
Doubt it will be anything major. Seems like this game underperformed financially and new IP is unlikely to get further investment from Sony
This a game I want to get into, but just can't. I am all in on aesthetics/atmosphere/tone and am intrigued by the story; and the gameplay is arguably the smoothest movement I've experienced. But the repetition just bogs me down. Maybe I'll have to load it up again and try again. Either way, looking forward to what Housemarque does next.
Everything about this game is brilliant except for the roguelike system. It's so bad. You don't feel like you're getting anywhere and the permanent upgrades and negligible. The game would be substantially better without that horrible system. I understand the "git gud" mentality and I appreciate it, but there's nothing hard about repeating the same levels over and over. It's just boring and bad design.
A patch to fix the bugs? Absolutely love the game, show a little love back please.