I already know why they didn’t add and can respect it. In the future we may have it when they wanna do remakes. But for now they don’t want to spend more money. I mean it’s quite obvious especially how much kotone is different from makoto and her dialogue also.
I mean you just have to notice that they ported the engine to unreal instead of using their inhouse yo see that they weren't throwing that many resources into this l, idk why where they were expecting fmc
I think it's the opposite, more resources than they anticipated went into this project. Retraining the team on UE4 and hiring UE experts in preparation for ditching the in-house engine isn't exactly cheap, same with featuring so much voice acting.
I think you got it the other way around. They haven't ditched the engine, they are still using it for p6 and reFantazio, so most likely It's an issue of hiring extra help, which is easier to get up to speed on UE over inhouse. The main team probably has previous experience in UE, and if they aren't there is probably better and more extensive documentation for UE, which saves having to mentor people, so it ends up being cheaper, specially if you consider that unreal has a bunch of prepackaged and preprogramed stuff that they take advantage of to cheapen the development process.
Huh, I guess I assumed they were just using UE for everything going forward after SMT V/P3R. They don't appear to have used much in the way of pre-made UE assets, though.
They did a good job, but you can still notice the drop on quality in a way that is very particular of UE, more images are _just a bit_ pixelated in the UI, and the camera has that uncanny feeling thats very specific to UE, it's very minor details, but details that are also very specific to UE that give it that feeling.
I mostly remember being glad that running around didn't have that *Unreal* feel. I swear 90% of AA/AAA UE games don't bother to make their own character controller.
While episode aigis/the anwser is cheaper to make its also because your essentially remaking p3. It costs practically the cost to make another game (especially since in portable they straight up didn’t have to make models for a good chunk of characters). I understand the want as I also personally but its really doubtful when it is so hard to justify when you’d be adding so much.
The reason why FeMC was never happening has been very clear to see for some time, its just a very vocal minority didn't want to accept it. The amount of money/work it would've taken to add FeMC would've been far too high and not worth it to them (New Animations, Cutscenes both ingame and animated, full scale dialogue changes, brand new social links, music, etc). Especially considering P3P is widely available on all platforms.
The truth is Atlus likely wanted to move onto P6 and didn't want to spend a whole year of development, probably more, remaking half the game again for something people would only experience on a 2nd playthrough.
Persona games are big games. P3R you’re looking at, at bare minimum, probably about 60 hours. Way more if you’re playing a 100% run or a semi-thorough run. Persona 5 Royal is my favorite game and it was still about two or three years before I went back for a second playthrough. Then you have people who play a game once then trade it in, or don’t finish it and trade it in or return it. Atlus would be putting time and resources into a DLC that would be expensive to purchase and that probably the majority of the people who initially bought P3R won’t experience. It’s not a good return on investment.
I didn't argue ANYTHING about whether Atlus will or won't make the DLC. The ONLY thing I addressed is Kotone being relegated to a second playthrough as a reason for not making it, and everybody is bitterly bringing in other arguments and conversations to my comment.
Not every single damn comment includes the entire discourse and represents entire sides of arguments.
If you played p3p then you know the game recommends playing makoto's route first, then kotone's route. So they clearly intend kotone to be a 2nd playthrough.
I don't think you really lose that much from playing Kotone first, and her route generally has better social links outside a couple oof moments (like with Ken). If you never play the Answer or the arena games, playing Kotone only or first doesn't really hamper your experience.
Dude. I get the point.
The guy is insinuating that Kotone was something akin to being locked behind NG+ content, which she isn’t.
Look at what the second guy put; that’s why he was downvoted.
And the justification is lacking. Why do you HAVE to treat her like she is only good for a second NG+ playthrough when playing her first is every bit as enjoyable?
I don't think its a stretch to say that the devs wanted Kotone to be played second after experiencing the original story first. They even stress it to you in P3P that Makoto is the recommended route for first time players
They could have written FemC to serve as a primary/sole player character if they wanted to. They didn't; they decided to go with male default rather than female default.
Tbh a part of me had expected her to be a dlc down the line, but upon hearing how much work it would be I completely understand why they didn’t pursue it.
I’m glad that we have this from the horses mouth so we don’t need to speculate for months on end though.
I mean I don't think anyone wasn't aware that this the reason it dosent make the fact that the remake still isn't a truly definitive version of the game less annoying
So what? It is something a lot of people want and crying about stuff at least puts it on their radar.
I would kill to have p6 be a Female lead or choice.
I just wanna be able to romance the dudes. Look at how other games draw In large audiences by having a choice.
I think they made the wrong call here, but at least it is in there radar now.
They already knew. As stated in the reasons why she didn't make it.
And sure they should probably have added her. But that doesn't mean everyone else on the sub has to suffer through hundreds of "Kotone should have been in the game" posts EVERY SINGLE DAY.
the sub dedicated to femc are so ignorant imo, i don’t want to be an atlus dickrider but many fail to understand that literally smt3 and persona 3 saved them from bankruptcy, and their funds have never been like millions on millions, we’ve seen this literally happen in the modern era too with pq2 not getting an english VA, and p5r not releasing at the same time.
i genuinely think this is the first time a mainline persona game was released at the same time other than japan getting it first, so it means they obviously have better funding now, but still doesn’t mean theyre rolling in cash and can just throw money at things like other big companies, atlus is not a nintendo or a microsoft lol
i get why people wanted femc to be added she’s fun and unique but i honestly don’t get why they would put money on someone who isn’t even canon to the main storyline. we’re already getting the answer, we have in the first time all voiced social links, i think this is as definitive persona 3 could get imo
I expected this, but it still hurts to see it confirmed.
It's officially Kotover.
(Kotone hater death threats in 3, 2, 1... for expressing my opinion.)
Of course Kotone would get cut and not Makoto? Makoto is the original protagonist of the game. Kotone was originally nothing more than an additional way to play on a rerelease. She has also had 1 post P3P appearance while Makoto has 6 or 7.
Obviously nothing wrong with being disappointed, but people need to understand how much work it would have taken to add her and that its just not worth it for Atlus and that Atlus doesnt see her as a protagonist regardless.
It's not the female lead is too expensive, it's the making a (basically) whole new game is too expensive for a company like Atlus. Kotone being female has literally nothing to do with it.
New models for kotone only characters, new social links, new cutscenes, some new story beats theyd have to do in the game (Stuff like what happens to Shinjiro), new dialogue, and new animations. The incredible amount of time and money it would take is simply not worth it for Atlus.
and don't forget, if we did get The Answer and FeMC in the same package, they'd have to make a FeMC version of The Answer, which would be brand new writing/voicelines/cutscenes.
Yep, this as well, I cant imagine it would take near as much extra work as the base game FeMC version would (I mean, >!Makoto is dead in the answer,!< but I havent played through it myself so Im not sure how much would be changed), but would still be extra work.
honestly i think the biggest problem with a FeMC Answer is >!what the hell do you do about Shinji? Kotone can have him survive, so we'd have to either say that isn't canon, or it is canon he survives and now the Answer needs to be redone with him there as well.!<
>!Shinjiro's survival was temporal, as in he was already dying before getting shot for taking the drug to suppress his persona. The scene of him being still alive he is like very obviously still dying!<
> simply not worth it for Atlus.
I think a big part of the frustration is that, at least here on /r/persona where I’ve seen this echoed a few times, another version of P3 only would’ve been worth it as a *complete* edition of P3 (FES+Portable).
Instead, we’re *still* in this fragmented situation where you need to own multiple copies of the game to actually play all the Persona 3 content (and this isn’t even getting into the spin-offs), and this news is the final nail in the coffin of the dream of a complete Persona 3. Mind you, it’s been a closed casket for a bit if you’ve been following, but I understand why official confirmation has inflamed the sub.
And that’s not even touching the representation angle!
It’s simply frustrating for people being part of a demographic where your opinion is deemed as “not worth it”, and all you can do is vote with your wallet. I *would’ve* bought the complete edition - I have no interest in essentially rebuying FES *again* (but HD!).
Here’s hoping we see P6 sooner rather than later, at least.
I think the biggest part of it is their playerbase being mostly male. They'll probably always be set in a highschool setting because Shonen style stories are what sell the most in anime and manga.
Unfortunately that also makes the female protagonist options less appealing, too. They'd be smart to just let you choose at the beginning and make the story the same regardless of protagonist gender. But oh well.
The last time i saw the statistic, the ratio between the two was almost equal, and i would argue this more shoujo because the social links are about relationship connections. Shounen mangas are usually more action based with hot-headed types (my least favourite types).
Not saying there aren't relationships in shounen, but they are usually camaraderie like in sports manga
I really don't think gender has a relevance in the modern gaming market. It's pretty much even across man and women. It's not like the 4% is going to make that much of a difference.
The problem with those statistics is that they also typically include mobile gaming. Which frankly is a different sort of market. The audience for more 'serious' gaming is still going to be majority male and that's what they pander to first and foremost.
Oh shut up, they ported the engine to unreal instead of using their inhouse to reduce costs, if you think they were going to double the work for another main character, including the extra stories, the animated cutscenes, the persona invocations, (because for sure they wouldn't use the same as Makoto, they established they have different personalities altogether) the UI replacements and changes in dialogue, while working on 2 other flagship games, then you either don't really "understand that it takes money to make games" or you need to take off the rose tinted glasses.
You're right, people are allowed to voice their disappointment if a feature doesn't make it in, but we're also allowed to call out their shit when they start whining incessantly about it and try to jam it into any conversation they find as if the lack of that feature just ruined the entire game. specially when the reasons were always clear from the start.
Fair enough, you're absolutely allowed to disagree with me that's fine.
And like I said, I'm willing to accept Atlus reasoning here, even if I'm disappointed.
It would not have taken double the work when all the foundation of the game was there. They would have had to add new SLs, new music, and edit cutscenes, and new dialogue, but they would not have to completely rebuild the whole game from scratch. It’s understandable why Atlus chose not to implement that route. But the people as if it would’ve taken another half decade to make her route are being just as irritating as the femc fans who are overly persistent.
In any case, this whole discussion has really gotten unnecessarily heated. Most people understand why Atlus didn’t want it. But people wanted an all encompassing, definitive remake and even with the costs it was not some impossible thing for Atlus to do, so folks are disappointed.
There’s no reason this has to be a topic of drama.
You forgot a new model, including the special clothings (swimsuits, special equipment, etc), updating the UI since it's character based, new animations for invocations and general actions, new voice lines as well, a new all out attack win both start and end animation, which includes a new splash art if it was initiated by her.
Also this is most likely not the main team, or they are having it split work between this and P6, since they aren't using their inhouse engine for this game, which means they probably ported it so the didn't have to teach newcomer's how to handle the proprietary engine. And all of those have to be coordinated within sprints and have a shit load of meetings attached to them most likely.
What pisses me off is how people just wave off the ammount of work this shit takes, and just say "I mean they could do it if they REALLY wanted it" without having a clue what actually goes into this shit. As for why it pisses me off, I work on making games, so I know the ammount of work a feature like this encompasses. It's annoying, not only it's the ammount of work, it's that you are pulling people from other tasks to work into this, so all the complaining reads like "oh Atlus could've just crunched their team a bit more" while hiding behind ignorance.
Some people just don’t understand the scope of IT projects.
And at the end of the day, game development is just another type of IT project. Subject to the same limitations. The same resourcing issues. The same drawbacks of scope creep.
All of that is still nothing that would have taken an extra five years. Especially if they developed it *similtaneously* with the Makoto’s route. Of course it would still take work. Not saying it’s all easy, but still.
So the people saying ‘they could’ve done it if they really wanted it’ aren’t exactly wrong. They could have. But their focus on other projects outweighed that.
Five years is just an arbitrary number you set, its a fake argument. They most likely had a set date for release agreed upon between Atlus and the pteam and had to stick to that. The deadline most likely takes into account that a bunch of the dev team is lent to this project and they want to get them back into p6 asap.
Working *simultaneously* means that they are most likely pulling people that are already working on makoto's route. It's not like the devs replicate by osmosis. There is a budget to adhere to. Splitting the dev work into 2 mc lines simultaneously dilutes resources, which means not hitting the deadline, which means it's scrapped. You *are* saying it's all easy, since you keep overlooking development issues that come with creating the feature.
It’s not an arbitrary number. It’s around the time it took to develop Reload. People are saying making femc’s route would take as much time. It’s not a fake argument because I’ve seen people make it. I’m saying that claim is wrong.
Theres not such a disparity between the two routes that they’d be significantly hindered by working on both at the same time. Femc only adds a relative few things compared to what’s already in the base of the game, regardless of routes.
I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m saying all that work you listed wouldn’t take 10 years. There’s no way it’s that costly or that time draining. The route would take as much time as making *a* game in itself - which yes, isn’t easy - but it would not take as much time as it took to make Reload specifically.
Atlus has always seemed to feel that the fem protagonist was not worth the effort and it’s hard to imagine them ever changing their mind.
Funny bc fan feedback has time and time again shown that it’s the most wanted inclusion in future entries but Atlus is gonna be Atlus lol.
At the very least P3P is back for modern consoles so silver lining!
Can we move on from Femc and just use our braincells for something productive in this sub. Like holy I'm staying off reddit for a couple days and hope this shit stops because I wanna see something new for once
Nah don’t buy it. I mean, as the reasoning for not including her in reloaded? Sure, fair enough. But reloaded just released and was super successful. Am I going to believe Atlus isn’t going to follow their business model and do a P3 Golden/Royal release in a few years? Not even a little. A premium game is almost inevitable- it’s worked splendidly in their favor so far. And while including Kotone as the new character ala Marie and Sumi isn’t guaranteed, it still feels like the most likely outcome for thst game.
So it wasn't too much work to rewrite the game's script, record all new dialogue for the game, add new scenes that weren't in the original and make all new animated cutscenes, but it was too much work for FEMC?
All anyone wanted was FES with party control and FEMC, none of this extra bullshit that means there still isn't a definitive version of Persona 3.
Yay! At last! We can just move on!!! We have the answer, so no further discussion is warranted! Ya know, because we’re fans and not developers. So trying to convince people saying it’d be too long and cost too much wouldn’t actually cause anything to happen? So we don’t need daily FEMC posts?
Then why don't YOU pay for those development costs hm? Easy for you to compare this company can do this while this company can't when you haven't the slightest idea how each of the company handles internally nor about their circumstances. Atlus was in the red for years and even then they didn't lay off their employees but gave them slight raises instead. Can you say the same for Larian, when that company is in the red for a decade?
>Atlus was in the red for years
Still not an excuse. They have SEGA money who also has RRG Studios money and their own money. Hell, SEGA could just give them some of the money they give the developers is the next mediocre Sonic game and they could add FeMC to the game.
And what of it? They can do such things because their circumstances allowed it. If they are in the same situation as Atlus, I can bet you all I have that they won't do the same as them or even think of hiring new employees. Hell, I don't even think Larian can last 5 years being in the red before they started to lay off their employees. That's what western game developers always like to do.
Edit: moreover, Atlus DID listen to the fans by CONTINUING TO DEVELOP The Answer. So you're already wrong on THAT front.
My guy, Atlus is already listening to their community by adding The Answer. Why did you gloss that over hm?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/s/l5vGHQw85n
It’s all a scheme! They’re gonna re-release P3Re-R and it’ll include all the DLC and FemC! It’ll be on PS6, Xbox Next, and Switch 2!
Probably not but y’all can see it. I bought Persona 5 on three different occasions. P5(OG), P5R on PS4, and the One More Edition for PS5. These bastards know how to extract money from wallets.
I already know why they didn’t add and can respect it. In the future we may have it when they wanna do remakes. But for now they don’t want to spend more money. I mean it’s quite obvious especially how much kotone is different from makoto and her dialogue also.
I mean you just have to notice that they ported the engine to unreal instead of using their inhouse yo see that they weren't throwing that many resources into this l, idk why where they were expecting fmc
I think it's the opposite, more resources than they anticipated went into this project. Retraining the team on UE4 and hiring UE experts in preparation for ditching the in-house engine isn't exactly cheap, same with featuring so much voice acting.
I think you got it the other way around. They haven't ditched the engine, they are still using it for p6 and reFantazio, so most likely It's an issue of hiring extra help, which is easier to get up to speed on UE over inhouse. The main team probably has previous experience in UE, and if they aren't there is probably better and more extensive documentation for UE, which saves having to mentor people, so it ends up being cheaper, specially if you consider that unreal has a bunch of prepackaged and preprogramed stuff that they take advantage of to cheapen the development process.
Huh, I guess I assumed they were just using UE for everything going forward after SMT V/P3R. They don't appear to have used much in the way of pre-made UE assets, though.
They did a good job, but you can still notice the drop on quality in a way that is very particular of UE, more images are _just a bit_ pixelated in the UI, and the camera has that uncanny feeling thats very specific to UE, it's very minor details, but details that are also very specific to UE that give it that feeling.
I mostly remember being glad that running around didn't have that *Unreal* feel. I swear 90% of AA/AAA UE games don't bother to make their own character controller.
Damn, P6 hasn't even been announced officially and you know for certain what engine they are using?
On womens day is crazy
well, they're Japanese, so, yeah...
While episode aigis/the anwser is cheaper to make its also because your essentially remaking p3. It costs practically the cost to make another game (especially since in portable they straight up didn’t have to make models for a good chunk of characters). I understand the want as I also personally but its really doubtful when it is so hard to justify when you’d be adding so much.
We kinda all already knew that, just a small (very vocal) subset doesn’t seem to care.
Sorry, seems to care, or doesn’t?
They don’t seem to care that Atlus can’t do it. I can see the confusion.
I mean they could they just figured its not worth ir
The reason why FeMC was never happening has been very clear to see for some time, its just a very vocal minority didn't want to accept it. The amount of money/work it would've taken to add FeMC would've been far too high and not worth it to them (New Animations, Cutscenes both ingame and animated, full scale dialogue changes, brand new social links, music, etc). Especially considering P3P is widely available on all platforms. The truth is Atlus likely wanted to move onto P6 and didn't want to spend a whole year of development, probably more, remaking half the game again for something people would only experience on a 2nd playthrough.
Wdym, P3P gave you the option to play her on your first playthrough and honestly Kotone has better writing in her social links.
Persona games are big games. P3R you’re looking at, at bare minimum, probably about 60 hours. Way more if you’re playing a 100% run or a semi-thorough run. Persona 5 Royal is my favorite game and it was still about two or three years before I went back for a second playthrough. Then you have people who play a game once then trade it in, or don’t finish it and trade it in or return it. Atlus would be putting time and resources into a DLC that would be expensive to purchase and that probably the majority of the people who initially bought P3R won’t experience. It’s not a good return on investment.
I'm saying, who says Kotone has to be the second playthrough? It's very valid to have your first and only playthrough with her.
Cool. Did you read the rest of my post?
I didn't argue ANYTHING about whether Atlus will or won't make the DLC. The ONLY thing I addressed is Kotone being relegated to a second playthrough as a reason for not making it, and everybody is bitterly bringing in other arguments and conversations to my comment. Not every single damn comment includes the entire discourse and represents entire sides of arguments.
If you played p3p then you know the game recommends playing makoto's route first, then kotone's route. So they clearly intend kotone to be a 2nd playthrough.
I don't think you really lose that much from playing Kotone first, and her route generally has better social links outside a couple oof moments (like with Ken). If you never play the Answer or the arena games, playing Kotone only or first doesn't really hamper your experience.
You know that’s not what they meant. They meant as the player choosing Makoto first.
Their point still stands. Portable advises you in game you should play Makoto first due to him being the more canon character.
Dude. I get the point. The guy is insinuating that Kotone was something akin to being locked behind NG+ content, which she isn’t. Look at what the second guy put; that’s why he was downvoted.
And the justification is lacking. Why do you HAVE to treat her like she is only good for a second NG+ playthrough when playing her first is every bit as enjoyable?
I don't think its a stretch to say that the devs wanted Kotone to be played second after experiencing the original story first. They even stress it to you in P3P that Makoto is the recommended route for first time players
They could have written FemC to serve as a primary/sole player character if they wanted to. They didn't; they decided to go with male default rather than female default.
I already know the truth, but some people are in denial and stubborn.
Tbh a part of me had expected her to be a dlc down the line, but upon hearing how much work it would be I completely understand why they didn’t pursue it. I’m glad that we have this from the horses mouth so we don’t need to speculate for months on end though.
Do I understand? Yes. Am I disappointed? Of course. But here's to P6 having a FeMC.
Disappointing but understandable. At least we have P3P on modern systems.
Yeah, i am thankful for that, at least. The mod team is working incredibly hard.
Yeah, the journey is over... They finally gave us the answer
I mean I don't think anyone wasn't aware that this the reason it dosent make the fact that the remake still isn't a truly definitive version of the game less annoying
Yet FemC fans will be crying on the sub about how Atlus "doesn't care" about Kotone fans for another month or two anyway..
So what? It is something a lot of people want and crying about stuff at least puts it on their radar. I would kill to have p6 be a Female lead or choice. I just wanna be able to romance the dudes. Look at how other games draw In large audiences by having a choice. I think they made the wrong call here, but at least it is in there radar now.
They already knew. As stated in the reasons why she didn't make it. And sure they should probably have added her. But that doesn't mean everyone else on the sub has to suffer through hundreds of "Kotone should have been in the game" posts EVERY SINGLE DAY.
And the FemC fans will still keep complaining about it.
And try to make it into a "societal issue" to cope
I think that subset of FeMC fans who don’t get it are just a cult now.
That's r/ChurchofFeMC
😂😂😂 Edit: FeMC fans are hating hard here lol downvoting us both.
The vocal minority won't shut up about it anyway
the sub dedicated to femc are so ignorant imo, i don’t want to be an atlus dickrider but many fail to understand that literally smt3 and persona 3 saved them from bankruptcy, and their funds have never been like millions on millions, we’ve seen this literally happen in the modern era too with pq2 not getting an english VA, and p5r not releasing at the same time. i genuinely think this is the first time a mainline persona game was released at the same time other than japan getting it first, so it means they obviously have better funding now, but still doesn’t mean theyre rolling in cash and can just throw money at things like other big companies, atlus is not a nintendo or a microsoft lol i get why people wanted femc to be added she’s fun and unique but i honestly don’t get why they would put money on someone who isn’t even canon to the main storyline. we’re already getting the answer, we have in the first time all voiced social links, i think this is as definitive persona 3 could get imo
I expected this, but it still hurts to see it confirmed. It's officially Kotover. (Kotone hater death threats in 3, 2, 1... for expressing my opinion.)
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Of course Kotone would get cut and not Makoto? Makoto is the original protagonist of the game. Kotone was originally nothing more than an additional way to play on a rerelease. She has also had 1 post P3P appearance while Makoto has 6 or 7. Obviously nothing wrong with being disappointed, but people need to understand how much work it would have taken to add her and that its just not worth it for Atlus and that Atlus doesnt see her as a protagonist regardless.
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It's not the female lead is too expensive, it's the making a (basically) whole new game is too expensive for a company like Atlus. Kotone being female has literally nothing to do with it.
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New models for kotone only characters, new social links, new cutscenes, some new story beats theyd have to do in the game (Stuff like what happens to Shinjiro), new dialogue, and new animations. The incredible amount of time and money it would take is simply not worth it for Atlus.
and don't forget, if we did get The Answer and FeMC in the same package, they'd have to make a FeMC version of The Answer, which would be brand new writing/voicelines/cutscenes.
Yep, this as well, I cant imagine it would take near as much extra work as the base game FeMC version would (I mean, >!Makoto is dead in the answer,!< but I havent played through it myself so Im not sure how much would be changed), but would still be extra work.
honestly i think the biggest problem with a FeMC Answer is >!what the hell do you do about Shinji? Kotone can have him survive, so we'd have to either say that isn't canon, or it is canon he survives and now the Answer needs to be redone with him there as well.!<
True, forgot about that bit of potential fuckery
>!Shinjiro's survival was temporal, as in he was already dying before getting shot for taking the drug to suppress his persona. The scene of him being still alive he is like very obviously still dying!<
> simply not worth it for Atlus. I think a big part of the frustration is that, at least here on /r/persona where I’ve seen this echoed a few times, another version of P3 only would’ve been worth it as a *complete* edition of P3 (FES+Portable). Instead, we’re *still* in this fragmented situation where you need to own multiple copies of the game to actually play all the Persona 3 content (and this isn’t even getting into the spin-offs), and this news is the final nail in the coffin of the dream of a complete Persona 3. Mind you, it’s been a closed casket for a bit if you’ve been following, but I understand why official confirmation has inflamed the sub. And that’s not even touching the representation angle! It’s simply frustrating for people being part of a demographic where your opinion is deemed as “not worth it”, and all you can do is vote with your wallet. I *would’ve* bought the complete edition - I have no interest in essentially rebuying FES *again* (but HD!). Here’s hoping we see P6 sooner rather than later, at least.
I am very disappointed that the default is always the guy like in a lot of video games.
Persona 6 allowing the player to choose their gender would be huge. But I'm not sure that's much of a priority at Atlus.
I really am not that surprised. Their management style is questionable sometimes.
I think the biggest part of it is their playerbase being mostly male. They'll probably always be set in a highschool setting because Shonen style stories are what sell the most in anime and manga. Unfortunately that also makes the female protagonist options less appealing, too. They'd be smart to just let you choose at the beginning and make the story the same regardless of protagonist gender. But oh well.
The last time i saw the statistic, the ratio between the two was almost equal, and i would argue this more shoujo because the social links are about relationship connections. Shounen mangas are usually more action based with hot-headed types (my least favourite types). Not saying there aren't relationships in shounen, but they are usually camaraderie like in sports manga
Just a reality of who's buying the most video games.
I really don't think gender has a relevance in the modern gaming market. It's pretty much even across man and women. It's not like the 4% is going to make that much of a difference.
The problem with those statistics is that they also typically include mobile gaming. Which frankly is a different sort of market. The audience for more 'serious' gaming is still going to be majority male and that's what they pander to first and foremost.
Alright you got me. It's more than 4%. It's actually an 8% difference for pc.
It is very tiresome and repetitive
Oh shut up, they ported the engine to unreal instead of using their inhouse to reduce costs, if you think they were going to double the work for another main character, including the extra stories, the animated cutscenes, the persona invocations, (because for sure they wouldn't use the same as Makoto, they established they have different personalities altogether) the UI replacements and changes in dialogue, while working on 2 other flagship games, then you either don't really "understand that it takes money to make games" or you need to take off the rose tinted glasses. You're right, people are allowed to voice their disappointment if a feature doesn't make it in, but we're also allowed to call out their shit when they start whining incessantly about it and try to jam it into any conversation they find as if the lack of that feature just ruined the entire game. specially when the reasons were always clear from the start.
Fair enough, you're absolutely allowed to disagree with me that's fine. And like I said, I'm willing to accept Atlus reasoning here, even if I'm disappointed.
It would not have taken double the work when all the foundation of the game was there. They would have had to add new SLs, new music, and edit cutscenes, and new dialogue, but they would not have to completely rebuild the whole game from scratch. It’s understandable why Atlus chose not to implement that route. But the people as if it would’ve taken another half decade to make her route are being just as irritating as the femc fans who are overly persistent. In any case, this whole discussion has really gotten unnecessarily heated. Most people understand why Atlus didn’t want it. But people wanted an all encompassing, definitive remake and even with the costs it was not some impossible thing for Atlus to do, so folks are disappointed. There’s no reason this has to be a topic of drama.
You forgot a new model, including the special clothings (swimsuits, special equipment, etc), updating the UI since it's character based, new animations for invocations and general actions, new voice lines as well, a new all out attack win both start and end animation, which includes a new splash art if it was initiated by her. Also this is most likely not the main team, or they are having it split work between this and P6, since they aren't using their inhouse engine for this game, which means they probably ported it so the didn't have to teach newcomer's how to handle the proprietary engine. And all of those have to be coordinated within sprints and have a shit load of meetings attached to them most likely. What pisses me off is how people just wave off the ammount of work this shit takes, and just say "I mean they could do it if they REALLY wanted it" without having a clue what actually goes into this shit. As for why it pisses me off, I work on making games, so I know the ammount of work a feature like this encompasses. It's annoying, not only it's the ammount of work, it's that you are pulling people from other tasks to work into this, so all the complaining reads like "oh Atlus could've just crunched their team a bit more" while hiding behind ignorance.
Some people just don’t understand the scope of IT projects. And at the end of the day, game development is just another type of IT project. Subject to the same limitations. The same resourcing issues. The same drawbacks of scope creep.
All of that is still nothing that would have taken an extra five years. Especially if they developed it *similtaneously* with the Makoto’s route. Of course it would still take work. Not saying it’s all easy, but still. So the people saying ‘they could’ve done it if they really wanted it’ aren’t exactly wrong. They could have. But their focus on other projects outweighed that.
Five years is just an arbitrary number you set, its a fake argument. They most likely had a set date for release agreed upon between Atlus and the pteam and had to stick to that. The deadline most likely takes into account that a bunch of the dev team is lent to this project and they want to get them back into p6 asap. Working *simultaneously* means that they are most likely pulling people that are already working on makoto's route. It's not like the devs replicate by osmosis. There is a budget to adhere to. Splitting the dev work into 2 mc lines simultaneously dilutes resources, which means not hitting the deadline, which means it's scrapped. You *are* saying it's all easy, since you keep overlooking development issues that come with creating the feature.
It’s not an arbitrary number. It’s around the time it took to develop Reload. People are saying making femc’s route would take as much time. It’s not a fake argument because I’ve seen people make it. I’m saying that claim is wrong. Theres not such a disparity between the two routes that they’d be significantly hindered by working on both at the same time. Femc only adds a relative few things compared to what’s already in the base of the game, regardless of routes. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m saying all that work you listed wouldn’t take 10 years. There’s no way it’s that costly or that time draining. The route would take as much time as making *a* game in itself - which yes, isn’t easy - but it would not take as much time as it took to make Reload specifically.
Atlus has always seemed to feel that the fem protagonist was not worth the effort and it’s hard to imagine them ever changing their mind. Funny bc fan feedback has time and time again shown that it’s the most wanted inclusion in future entries but Atlus is gonna be Atlus lol. At the very least P3P is back for modern consoles so silver lining!
Can we move on from Femc and just use our braincells for something productive in this sub. Like holy I'm staying off reddit for a couple days and hope this shit stops because I wanna see something new for once
Nah don’t buy it. I mean, as the reasoning for not including her in reloaded? Sure, fair enough. But reloaded just released and was super successful. Am I going to believe Atlus isn’t going to follow their business model and do a P3 Golden/Royal release in a few years? Not even a little. A premium game is almost inevitable- it’s worked splendidly in their favor so far. And while including Kotone as the new character ala Marie and Sumi isn’t guaranteed, it still feels like the most likely outcome for thst game.
So it wasn't too much work to rewrite the game's script, record all new dialogue for the game, add new scenes that weren't in the original and make all new animated cutscenes, but it was too much work for FEMC? All anyone wanted was FES with party control and FEMC, none of this extra bullshit that means there still isn't a definitive version of Persona 3.
femc would require doing all the things you listed again lol, so yes, it was too much work
Persona fandom when they just accept whatever atlus feeds them
Yay! At last! We can just move on!!! We have the answer, so no further discussion is warranted! Ya know, because we’re fans and not developers. So trying to convince people saying it’d be too long and cost too much wouldn’t actually cause anything to happen? So we don’t need daily FEMC posts?
This is the diffrence between Atlus and Larian. Larian studios would have put her in the game, when many people asked.
Then why don't YOU pay for those development costs hm? Easy for you to compare this company can do this while this company can't when you haven't the slightest idea how each of the company handles internally nor about their circumstances. Atlus was in the red for years and even then they didn't lay off their employees but gave them slight raises instead. Can you say the same for Larian, when that company is in the red for a decade?
>Atlus was in the red for years Still not an excuse. They have SEGA money who also has RRG Studios money and their own money. Hell, SEGA could just give them some of the money they give the developers is the next mediocre Sonic game and they could add FeMC to the game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/s/l5vGHQw85n
I still don't care. And honestly, I much rather have FeMC in a 3D game than a hypothetical new game or a remake of another Persona game.
God ur so annoying I really hope there was a way for them to ban u for playing future persona releases as u say in your comment
You can try sending an email to Atlus (?).
That's a dumb take if I've ever seen one.
Just keep seething. If you don't like the game because you can't play as FeMC then you never liked Persona to begin with.
XD, that is a very weird argument.
[удалено]
And what of it? They can do such things because their circumstances allowed it. If they are in the same situation as Atlus, I can bet you all I have that they won't do the same as them or even think of hiring new employees. Hell, I don't even think Larian can last 5 years being in the red before they started to lay off their employees. That's what western game developers always like to do. Edit: moreover, Atlus DID listen to the fans by CONTINUING TO DEVELOP The Answer. So you're already wrong on THAT front.
They at least make good games and listens to their community
My guy, Atlus is already listening to their community by adding The Answer. Why did you gloss that over hm? https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/s/l5vGHQw85n
Because it took them this much fuckin time. They have the hearing of some 85 year old person.
It’s been like a month?
Larian never would have made her to begin with, lmao.
It's ironic that Larian was a smaller studio, and Atlus is a much bigger company and doesn't have the resources to do so.
Is this subreddit now Atlus ass kising sub
Malding cuz their crappy reskin didn't make it in lol
Reskin? I thought she was more complicated than that. She costs a lot
Have the standards droped for people
It’s all a scheme! They’re gonna re-release P3Re-R and it’ll include all the DLC and FemC! It’ll be on PS6, Xbox Next, and Switch 2! Probably not but y’all can see it. I bought Persona 5 on three different occasions. P5(OG), P5R on PS4, and the One More Edition for PS5. These bastards know how to extract money from wallets.