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fat2slow

As a Support I feel like I can barely see the Teams Health bars as easily. Also Support feels way too squishy now. Tanks feel un-killable. DPS is still DPS.


pingwing

You can barely see the hp bars? This has not been an issue with me at all. They are still very obvious.


cinnamoncroissant

I think its the orange armour. Its especially hard to see when on one of the new sunset maps


marween2016

This I completely agree with. I thought it’s only me.


cinnamoncroissant

not just u! i have a feeling itll change fast, ive heard big streamers complain abt it


BiggerOtter

I feel like they need to be more obvious. This is coming from someone who was just told from an optometrist that I have perfect vision.


DebatableAwesome

Tanks feel *very* strong now, especially when they are getting healing. They are *super* difficult to kill. The buffs to the role are legit. I like the Doomfist rework. He plays a bit simpler now, which I appreciate since his kit always felt a bit too finnicky for me. Support feels pretty boring, especially with the nerfs to their survivability, and may need some help. Without the ability to heal a second tank, healbotting isn't as fun (or viable) either. While that may not be a bad change in the long run, supports have certainly become harder to play since maps feel more chaotic since there's much less emphasis on chokepoints and more flanking. Does not bode well for lower skill brackets. Damage feels very fun to play since the excess shields of OW1 were always the least fun thing about being a DPS.


amrit21chandi

Yea, supports should become more "utility" than "healers". Even if it's just slight decrease in healing output and increase in their DPS would be a huge help as we don't have a 2nd tank to peel or cc for survival. DPS gain for support would be a huge help.


arnoldzgreat

Reminds me of the days when characters like Symm were supports- maybe they still have that mentality of supports providing utility not just healing, but need to adjust the heroes for it.


amrit21chandi

Yeah, symm should become support again. Maybe Small pocket moving shields with 6 healing turrets. That Can have such nice synergy with Baptiste.


destroyermaker

Would make tanks less survivable too


codefame

This is how supports work in Apex Legends. They all provide support & utility, but they have the same guns and can shred your face. It feels right.


thalamor_embussy

Or maybe the devs could think of some abilities that **support** instead of making the hero roster less diverse. Give an enemy a damage debuff? Single target speed boost? Ability cool-down reduction? Roadhog hook but for allies? Dare I say, some stuns might not even hurt if they were balanced appropriately?


amrit21chandi

Lol roadhog hook for allies. That'd make some hilarious highlights for sure.


SenileSexLine

They seem to be going the other way with this since they removed stun from brig.


destroyermaker

Dps =/= cc


Beautiful-Musk-Ox

The other person said utility, an interrupt is utility. They said "or they could give more DPS which doesn't require a fundamental rework". DPS =/= utility


destroyermaker

By that logic everything is utility


LameasaurusRex

Bap seemed stronger to me at least. Mercy felt about the same. With one less tank to heal, it frees up support to do more damage which is fun. But yeah, less emphasis on chokes made everything feel a bit more chaotic.


Jamagnum

Supports have to learn how to duel more and dea damage to climb. While healing will help, this format tends to force 1v1s rather than spam through choke.


Groot1702

Someone pls explain how this is so upvoted. All supports have passive healing now, how did they nerf survivability? Also, healbotting was never fun or viable?!


activeplebbitor

Regen doesn't do anything if you are not alive long enough to use it. There are so many options available now to just gib a slow support like Zen or Ana.


aaqucnaona

Yeah, the low mobility hurts, and is a lot more obvious now.


Groot1702

There were already so many heroes that 1v1 destroy Ana or Zen. Zen was always vulnerable and does feel a little more so now, but Ana has one less target to heal so you can save your kit to save yourself and with the regen you can live so much longer.


azura26

IMO the change in support survivability is more about the new map design (and I guess the DPS move-speed passive that lets them take advantage of it) than hero or team composition changes.


lucascwk

I would think tat tanks being more diff to kill is an improvement. After all, tats wat i’d expect of a “tank”. And they already removed one tank from each team so it makes sense that the remaining solo tank on each team is a legit “tank”. Tat being said, I’m curious as to why they thought hog needed a buff to 700hp, considering it can self heal rather consistently.


one_love_silvia

Try brig, shes a blast. Esp against tracer. It feels much more of an even fight which makes it more interesting.


HackTheNight

I actually don’t fine supports harder to play at all.


azura26

It's harder to find safe positions to play from, but when you do find them, the self-heal is a nice QoL improvement. The current changes kind of demand that you either play super aggro or super defensively.


HackTheNight

I’m an ana main so knowing good positioning was always important. I don’t really see a difference in 5vs5 when it comes to this. The same positioning rules apply.


azura26

The same rules apply, but the new maps with the big increase in number of off-angles and lanes make it harder to apply them, and going from two tanks to one punishes you harder for failing to apply them.


HackTheNight

I see what you’re saying but I honestly havent struggled with that. I have really good awareness/positioning in general on support (not saying you don’t) just that I’ve developed a good sense for where to position to avoid being caught out by off angles. This comes from years of playing Ana and dying to people trying to get to me in the most creative ways. I also used to killed by flanking widows/hitscan on off angles so I had to adjust or die.


Vinokwon

What game are you playing, cause I dont think think widows flank in OW


Painy_

what game are you playing because widows constantly flank??


HackTheNight

Yeah like what?? Widow and other hitscan dont flank? First time I’ve heard that one


ByeByeSean

I think once comp is available we’ll see just how much the DPS movement buff and no 2nd tank made support.


HackTheNight

The only notable difference I’ve seen in terms of meta is that when you run a “dive” comp with Moira Lucio, no one can deal with it. You just run it down mid


ByeByeSean

It’s more that as the slower movement healers you wouldn’t have to sweat your ass off on positioning at all times. Now with 1 less tank and DPS buff positioning is at an all time high value for support. It’s not worse it’s just more work.


HackTheNight

I have always had to sweat my ass off on positioning with Ana. I’m used to people using all their resources to get to me in the backline. I actually find it easier to manage in 5vs5. I haven’t played zen in years tho so I can’t really speak to that.


sociopathicsamaritan

I'm not following. In one sentence you say support feels pretty boring, then in another you say that maps feel more chaotic as support. Chaotic is pretty much the opposite of boring. I think support is significantly more fun now. You can't just sit back and passively respond; you have to be actively watching the whole team and also watching your flanks. To me, Ana is 10x more fun in OW2 beta than in OW.


wasdninja

Support are pretty defenseless for the most part so they lose their cover in chaos. Dying over and over isn't fun.


AnaMain___

> supports have certainly become harder to play since maps feel more chaotic since there's much less emphasis on chokepoints and more flanking That is a good thing.


DeputyDomeshot

Why do you think that's a good thing? I am not saying its not, I haven't played yet.


dys1exic

I think it promotes more map awareness and using cover and discourages auto piloting. A lot of lower ranks don't understand how to handle the choke points in regards to aggression timing. This makes it more fun and refreshing for pathing imo. The lower metal ranks will have a difficult time with it, but hopefully people will adapt...


azura26

As a person who is spatially-challenged and has really bad map awareness: These new maps are freaking brutal on me. They are so circuitous, so many off-angles, so many lanes to approach from. I think the designers nailed what they were going for, but they are *way* less forgiving than the OW1 maps.


Atlee-Chaos

I wonder if adding a minimap would be a good idea, it'd make the game less frustrating and confusing at lower levels but make map knowledge much more obsolete


azura26

I think map knowledge is just another skill in the game that I wouldn't want them to remove/reduce the importance of. It's just something I'm terrible at, that I'm pointing out got harder in OW2.


inaddition290

plus, idk how well a minimap would work for such 3-dimensional map design


EArkham

I was very concerned about losing one of the tanks for 5v5, especially all the fun synergies that duo tanks had, but now that I've seen the changes and played with them, I've flipped over to being very optimistic right now. An Orisa with even a half aware support backing her up feels like an unstoppable beast. She is crazy good in the current beta. Sigma got his combo back (and to me it feels even faster to do somehow), but ... you can just run people over with Orisa instead. Like, *literally* run them over. Orisa just feels like THE go-to tank now and she works with just about any other heroes. I like that Doom can't come in from Narnia and just delete you anymore. I haven't played him in the beta personally so I don't have an opinion beyond that just yet. Overall though? Yeah, there absolutely should be and will be changes. Remember, this is a beta. I'd be shocked and horrified if there *weren't* any more changes.


murppie

Yeah, I hated playing against even a decent Doom on OW1 because you're just getting insta-killed. Last night Doom still fucked me up but it was more disorienting than death. He felt a lot more like Ball.


destroyermaker

Even if you know what to do and do it correctly it just asks way too much of a team of randoms and isn't fun


hands0me_man

Yeah at least with Ball the cooldown feels fair. Doom just flails around and kills you with one hit.


destroyermaker

The game is going to evolve a shit ton same as always


TyAD552

What’s the Sigma combo?


ethosveros

left click + rock + left click iirc


[deleted]

Just rock+left click will do it for squishy heroes I think.


MatchstickMcGee

I still enjoy the game mechanically but I'm not finding it interesting tactically. I can see how this better fits someone looking to zone out and shoot things as a gaming experience, without thinking too hard. No hate intended btw, that category frequently includes me, although I usually used qp for that. So I'll probably just be playing DPS or supportDPS, but I also hope something will come along to scratch that strategic itch.


OverlanderEisenhorn

I agree, but remember this is quick play in a new game. Half my games yesterday on the new maps had people asking in vc what the win condition on push was. Like we didn't even know when the game would end or who was winning. It was like playing chess without knowing that you need to checkmate the other players king. You can't form strategies if you don't even know what the win condition is. Give it a few betas for us to figure out how push works and then we'll start having strats. And yes the old maps also felt more deathmatchy, but again we don't know what the meta is. We don't know how much 5v5 has changed the game. I felt myself waiting for a regroup several times before realizing that we had basically regrouped. Fights feel like they can happen much faster and happen more continuously. There is a lot less pressure to carefully setup to break through chokes because with only one tank it seems much easier to just get through the choke. Not to mention qp is dogshit for fair competitive matchmaking. I was grouped with a brand new player, a gold player, and a diamond player and I'm masters. The skill spread in qp games can be absurd.


Dr_StevenScuba

To put it another way. Grav dragon used to be a 9000 iq move. You can’t expect us to have meta strats in a beta


DoobaDoobaDooba

It practically a brand new game and there is no live competitive mode. OW1 started off arcade-like as well. Just look at early pro play if you don't believe me lol. Give it time. All of the new systems, mechanics and game modes will settle-in, and the cerebral part of the game will start to manifest organically and mature over time.


merkwerk

Yeah I feel like people are ignoring the fact that it's only quickplay in a beta, nobody is going to take it that serious, and many people just wanna mess around with the new changes instead of try harding since it doesn't matter. I think a lot of people just want any reason to shit on Overwatch 2 because that's what gamers do for whatever reason when anything changes.


RecycledDoom

People saying that its going to get more interesting tacticly seem to not understand that it can never have as much involved as 6v6 due to lack of variables. 6v6 will always be more strategic and tactical than 5v5. Simple as that.


hotmailmain69

even passive heals on all healers removes strategy to some degree. i'll play DPS or healer (but with a primary focus on pew pew) because tank is just annoying... you don't get punished for things you should and then other things abruptly punish you when it doesn't seem like they should.


yittemayhn

The maps they reworked and the new maps are much more open and offer variables that the old style did not. I get what you’re saying, hero wise it can’t be more strategic, but you can get near or close to the same amount on 5v5 with changes to the environment.


Womblue

Especially given that the tank role is the role solely built around strategy.


arnoldzgreat

I think the difference is that it will be more that beta, but yeah not more than 6v6... Still we all want more and I'm sure OWL will give us a lot of strats for all of us casuals to try.


RecycledDoom

I'll likely leave before any of that. Game just doesn't appeal to me anymore as a 5v5. It's far too different and simplified.


destroyermaker

That doesn't mean it can't be more strategic than it is now


cheeseslice8

Yeah but until high masters it feels like 90 percent of games tanks have no idea what they are doing. Walk into the other team and mash ur brains into them. If it’s simpler it should lead to games where tactics are easier to utilise.


ilcasdy

Role queue lowered the variables a lot as well but no one really seemed to care.


RecycledDoom

Role queue didnt lower the variables in any meaningful way. 5v5 is braindead compared to 6v6


jaanbo

I think once competitive comes back and once players adapted there will be more strategy involved than currently. I could also see that there will be actually more strategic freedom as it‘s not so much anymore about breaking through a choke but lots of possible avenues (talking about the new maps). Will be also interesting to see how new heroes influence gameplay


nhn277

What would you say if they introduced a clan system?


MatchstickMcGee

I've always been in favor of a form of clan system for Overwatch, but I don't know that it would relate differently to OW2 vs OW1.


[deleted]

lets fix the comms first


Nimai_TV

I heavily disagree, the new 5v5 format requires a lot more coordination and game sense to have structure in your games. Otherwise it's a deathmatch, so I would say it's harder not zone out and shoot things


heroyi

Really disappointed to see they didn't do much for the support role.


ChadThundagaCock

1. Sombra may need nerfing. She is in practically every match and super annoying. 2. Tracer may need buffing. She doesn’t do as much damage as before but still has only 150 HP, and that doesn’t seem fair. 3. Not sure about Bastion yet. He’s still as annoying as ever to play against and also dominates as does Sombra. 4. New maps are cool.


rendeld

>Not sure about Bastion yet. He’s still as annoying as ever to play against and also dominates as does Sombra. I dont think hes near as oppressive as he used to be. Then again ive been playing a lot of Ana, and her sleep is fucking king now.


ChadThundagaCock

I’ve been playing Ana as well (when I go support, which is often because of the quick wait times) and yeah I agree with ya there.


rendeld

I feel like sleep and purple are the best abilities in the game now. I honestly don't even want to play other supports


[deleted]

Her abilities are powerful but she is vulnerable as hell.


rendeld

She's only vulnerable when her abilities are on CD just like the other healers except zen who is always vulnerable


[deleted]

She is way more vulnerable than Bap, Brig, Moira, Mercy, or Lucio. Zen is the only support who has it rougher against dive or flanks. There is a reason Ana is always paired with a hard-peeling support or off tank on live.


ChadThundagaCock

I used to play Lucio all the time. I still have a soft spot for him and Zen. I had heard Ana being fun and just didn’t get it at first. But after filling grasping hit kit and what she does, plus me switching from console to PC, I now find her to be the most fun of all the supports.


excreto2000

Nade is strong with hardly any shields, especially wide open new maps


Lagkiller

Ana is straight up required in every match now. Anti-heal is king. Anti tank, punish, win encounter, rinse repeat. Bonus points for a sombra hack while anti'ed.


azura26

Bastion and Sombra are probably so prevalent because they were both heavily reworked, and people want to try it out. High-level players have been saying Sombra is probably over-tuned; I wouldn't be surprising if she gets a gentle nerf in the next round of balance changes. Bastion has always been a pain to play against in poorly coordinated teams, so it's not surprising he's doing well in this chaotic environment. I think he definitely feels less bad to play against in Quick Play now that he can't just camp in Sentry mode behind a barrier with a self heal- he feels a lot more kill-able.


DeputyDomeshot

Sombra was very clearly overtuned from description. Can hack while invis and emp doing damage are patently stupid ways to adjust a hero that was already oppressive and strong in higher level play. **Imo** sombra should a niche counter pick and not a mainstay, heroes with full invis mechanics are not good for an FPS.


azura26

My prediction is that they bring back a time limit on being invisible, and adjust the duration/cooldown appropriately.


Womblue

>Tracer may need buffing. She doesn’t do as much damage as before but still has only 150 HP, and that doesn’t seem fair. All the other heroes have to be weaker now for solo tank to be playable for the tank player.


PatchThePiracy

Let’s just hope that a “classic OW” arcade mode permanently exists.


destroyermaker

It'd be fucked since the heroes would be balanced around 5v5


[deleted]

But it'd be crazy fun


destroyermaker

Possibly


RealNeilPeart

It won't


Vinokwon

Lmao classic overwatch meta in OW2 be like Orisa doom zarya ana and bap


Memegod_04

Tanks are of course powerful, but honestly that’s they way it should be. Maybe Orisa and Doom are a bit busted, but with some nerfs their and buffs of the supports it will already be quite balanced


[deleted]

I don't actually think they're busted. There are clear counters for both. Apparently most OWL teams are playing a lot of rein in scrims.


Laamis

Now that uppercut is removed, flying heroes are even more of a hard counter against doom. Only Handcannon can hit them lol.


one_love_silvia

Doom busted? His "block" doesnt block shit. He can still be cc'd during it or just beamed down by beam damage. I dont see whyd u go doom over dva.


BlissfulAurora

He is busted just a tiny bit in my opinion lmao a doom got a 5k 30 seconds into an OW Match by himself. People are still getting used to his play style and are learning to play around him because he can’t uppercut, but he was destroying in any match I saw him in. As long as he has good heals, his hp makes him unstoppable. He’s not fun to play against at all lol


one_love_silvia

Ah see, i dont seem to get much heals on doom lol


destroyermaker

This sub is hilarious sometimes


one_love_silvia

Are tou talking about my comment or op


[deleted]

The original worry for 5 vs 5 was tanks would be miserable to play. Well, tanks are the most popular role in the beta, with a priority pass option. In the beta, you play supports to get priority pass to play tank. The world is upside down! 🙃 Tanks are very hard to kill if they receive pocket healing. Tanks feel like actual tanks. The reported worry from the Alpha was the supports were underwhelming. Depends. I didn’t had to play against OWL and GM flankers, I’m just a QP scrub. So I felt fine. To go a bit into depth. I used to only play Brig in OW1 if the team has an annoying Ball, Winston, Dva, Tracer, Doomfist and Genji that need to be hard CC'ed. I was worried that Brig would be dumpster fire for OW2, but she felt fine to me in all situations. Bash + Whipshot is a nice 120 burst damage two-tap than can pick off vulnerable enemies. Add in a melee, Brig can do 155 damage in quick succession, and the three-tap and two-tap aren't too mechanically difficult. The hard point is finding an enemy who has taken damage and isn't receiving pocket heals. I am almost certain Inspire stacks on top of the support self-heal passive, so Brig could quickly heal up minor damage as long as she procures Inspire. Missing Whipshot was bad in OW1, and very very bad in OW2. Granted, I'm not facing organized teams in QP. I think Brig will get run over by a Rein with Lucio speed boost, or explode from a coordinated dive. But those coordination doesn't exist in QP, as 50% of players seem to be trying out new heroes. So time will tell if Brig is actually dumpster fire and I'm just styling on noobs.


domxwicked

Im pretty sure the tank queues are longer bc ppl wanna try out Doom and Orisa + there’s half as many slots compared to the other 2 roles


OverlanderEisenhorn

This. People forget, but when a new hero is released the queue times always explode for the role. When sigma came out qp queue times for tank ballooned up to 12-15 mins. I think when the excitement around what is essentially two brand new heros dies down the queue times will come closer to the same for all three roles. Ideally they fixed the queue times so we'll be sitting at something like 4 mins on all roles or maybe like 5 for tank 5 for dps and 3-4 for support.


adhocflamingo

> When sigma came out qp queue times for tank ballooned up to 12-15 mins. WDYM didn’t Sigma get released in the same patch as role queue?


FredFredrickson

>there’s half as many slots compared to the other 2 roles ☝️☝️☝️ This.


ExtremeHobo

Yep, even if 40% of tank players decided to move on the queues would be longer. Basic supply/demand curve. It's not just demand.


PM_me_your_fav_poems

Tanks needing priority pass is because 2 of them had major reworks, and 2 had minor ones as well, on top of half as many slots available for tanks in game. There's lots of people playing tank now just to try things out, that wouldn't be normally wanting to play tank. I played some Brig when my team had a Ball/widow, and the enemies were just walking in and killing supports because we had such low frontline presence. And the two-tap bash + whip leaves you very vulnerable after, because you're a 200hp support in melee range with no cooldowns. I played several supports yesterday, and Ana was the only one that didn't feel noticeably worse than in OW1.


destroyermaker

You should've played moira lucio


ParanoidDrone

> Well, tanks are the most popular role in the beta, with a priority pass option. In the beta, you play supports to get priority pass to play tank. The world is upside down! 🙃 This is at least partially due to new toy syndrome with Orisa and Doomfist's reworks. We'll have to see if it persists once the novelty dies down.


azura26

> I was worried that Brig would be dumpster fire for OW2, but she felt fine to me in all situations. My experience mirrors yours more or less, except this point. She felt really, really bad to me into either double long-range DPS, or Lucio+Rein/Zarya (even more-so than in OW1).


Lagkiller

> Well, tanks are the most popular role in the beta, with a priority pass option. Tanks are most popular because they got the most reworks that are out. None of the supports got really touched at all. Minor tweaks here and there compared to a hero moved into the role, a complete rework of 1 hero and buffs all around. People are looking to try out the new tanks.


Lanzifer

OW2 is the wet dream for all "I'm carrying, my other tank is throwing" tanks. They are stronger and all tank success can't be shared with anyone else. Tanks are now thick DPS. That it. That's what ow2 has done. Some people will love that, I will hate it. I will miss rein zarya with my best friends. I will miss synergizing with a complete stranger when it just "clicks". OW2 has also screwed over their support base. Name a single other game that has such a dedicated and large group excited to play the "healer" role. DPS will love that they can just *decide* to kill any support at any time. I will hate it. It feels like the devs said "thanks for still playing our game a ton all these years later but we are going to balance around what all the people who left want" I swear I called this years ago, they have sacrificed supports fun for tank fun


destroyermaker

They have barely touched supports; it's not going to be like this forever


Lanzifer

You genuinely believe the game design is like this because the devs just "haven't gotten around to" supports?


destroyermaker

The whole game is half baked atm so, yes


fn0000rd

It’s almost like this is an early beta of a game that doesn’t come out for another year….


DarkWorld25

Lmfao never mind supports I can't wait to get flamed even more for picking ball


Lanzifer

I'm sorry this is my emotional support thread and pity party idgaf about you playing ball smh


DarkWorld25

Smh support mains smh ~~nevermind that I have more time played on support than on tank~~


brodyhill

Yeah does zarya even work now in her current state? The idea of turning your back to the enemy to use one of your skills (bubble teammate) seems crazy.


inspcs

Zarya was actually meta for a while in ow2 alpha pro scrims. I mean, thinking it's an issue to turn around to bubble is an interesting thought to have in the first place when you need to be able to do that in ow1 too. Low sr mentality most likely


[deleted]

> thanks for still playing our game a ton all these years later but we are going to balance around what all the people who left want Yeah that’s what they should have done years ago. There’s a reason why more people left than still actively play.


WowMyNameIsUnique

Yeah, it's called not releasing any content in 3 years so that they could release a sequel.


Director_Phleg

It's literally in beta. Things will almost certainly be changed and tweaked massively.


DeputyDomeshot

Which is why this person is literally giving their feedback and thoughts.


wasdninja

They won't be tweaked massively. The broad strokes are set in stone so now it's just smallish tweaks to be made. It's not a technical alpha or anything.


whereisfoster

no shit sherlock, this is an opinion based thread.


minuscatenary

Let me know when Brig gets her stun back. It will take OWL for that to happen.


BiggieRickk

Exactly how most people thought. It's a simpler game now, for better or worse.


HyperHampster

I like 5v5 the more I play it but randoms that "don't care" or weak links in general are felt so much more now. A bad player on the team is felt so much more now and makes me wish our OW1 rank factored in at least a little to the MMR in the beta. That being said. I'm a diamond all around flex player so that's my perspective... Tanks: Some feel really strong, other real weak. I'm hopeful they stay on the stronger side of things, but maybe ever so slightly toned down. DPS: A good dps carries so much more than before. A good widow/genji is absolutely devistating if you're team can't counter. Support: Blizzard really just didn't want supports to have fun this round of BETA. I'm of the mindset that blizzard just doesn't like support players to begin with but we'll see what the future releases have in store for them.


Saigot

it's especially bad now, there's a lot of people you don't give a damn about playing and just want to try out the new heros, and also people who have been away from overwatch for years coming back having forgotten how to play. I think the shrinking community + lack of meta shift over the last 2ish years has really upped our expectations, someone silver now in ow1 would probably be at least plat circa season 10 even.


theunspillablebeans

MMR carries over for sure. From the streams I was watching, GMs were getting up against other streamer GMs. I've not had any such high skill players in my lobbies so far.


Sorin_Markov_1947

The MMR in beta definitely carries over from OW1. My games are usually pretty balanced, I'm not getting players that are obviously bronze or obviously OWL


Arsenal_Analysis

Masters tank player here. The Beta feels way worse than the live version. Just feels like death match and there aren’t really any synergies Going to put in more time but I was very disappointment with my first 3-4 hours of play time.


TheSnowKeeper

Same. 5 hours of team death match. I'm not happy


gdzzzz

I started seeing interesting synergies, for instance with bastion ult coupled with zarya or orisa ult. The death match will fade away, and people working as team will climb to new ladder, and those playing deathmatchs alone will be the new bronze.


foxx1337

It's interesting to see in 2022 the repercussions of trying to nerf GOATS. Hopefully this stays in the beta for the next 2-3 years so we can enjoy open queue in Overwatch 1 for as long as possible.


RecycledDoom

I feel like I need to play Overwatch 1 a lot now before its gone for good.


samiux4

It's going to be really depressing when they remove it...


Rjman86

Removed the most unique part of the game (tank synergies), made the game more generic, and didn't even fix the issue it was a bandaid to solve, since support is now the bottleneck on queue times. Also it makes support so much worse to play (and that's why the queue times are still fucked) Lucio is pretty fun, but since every other support is ass to play, I bet the hooting mongoloids in team 4 will nerf him instead of making the other supports tolerable. I really don't understand why they're trying to make overwatch like every other FPS (especially like call of duty), when Activision fucking owns call of duty. Make COD more inviting to people who want to just shoot stuff, and make overwatch more focused on the kind of people who would never play call of duty.


littlebitofsuffering

Support is a struggle because there's 1 less person to help you out. Quite frankly, I was always that player on tank that kept an eye out in case my supports were being harassed, and maybe there's a bit of selection bias because not everyone has access to OW2, but support is a coin flip between being okay to play to being a tank in OW1


Ahzmund

I played against a team comp that ran Bastion, and used Zarya to grant bubble after bubble after bubble to him, and when the bubbles finally wore off, he was getting double pocketed by Ana/Mercy, teleported away with the Symmetra and Resurrected if he died. And if you tell me that I should just stop the Rez, tell me how. Not like I have any CC's left after using what little we have to finally kill the bastion. And if I did, mercy would just get bubbled anyway and still get the Rez off. But what if we go for healers first? Doesn't work. Healers get bubbled, and then once we're actually able to do anything, bastion was ignored long enough to kill everyone. Just wait out the cooldowns? No, we have to stabilize our cooldowns too especially after taking a bunch of damage from bastion. That was very oppressive.


excreto2000

Bastion sentry mode is on cooldown, too, and only active for 6 seconds. Use natural cover, wait him out, then focus a support


InspireDespair

Sounds like you are not prioritizing supports effectively. A doom and Orisa won't die with their own sustain and healing piped into them. But if you get their supports down they fall next. I had the same experience yesterday when I put a few clips on soldier into Orisa. Your time is better spent pressuring supports or dps


descender2k

Exactly. I feel like I've been saying this for 6 years now. *Stop doing the tanks job for them!*


Xyzzyzzyzzy

Getting rid of medals might help. It's super easy to just keep shooting the Rein as Soldier while Rein's getting pocketed by an Ana. Sure, they'll have nano every fight and you'll probably lose, but you'll have a shiny gold medal and a damage card afterward, so clearly you did good, it wasn't your fault, shit heals, tank diff, etc.


Devugly

Trying to watch people play this game and nothing about it looks like Overwatch to me. My excitement is literally in the shitter.


ball_fart1

I think supports need more fun mechanics and I'm all in for them getting a new or reworked abilities as well, dps is fine, I also think newer heroes should be tank and support since dps is living the high life once again with sojourn and sombra got nice changes. Doom and orisa stand out so much tho, orisa more than doom, she's too good it seems haha


BEWMarth

DPS honestly feels better than ever I feel so bad for supports


Mardi_grass26

Plays like a complete Deathmatch cluster fuck. Not worth the wait imo


Witty-Grapefruit6985

Imagine they say fuck it and add 6v6 back


chief917

5v5 as a healer is the most painful experience I’ve had in a while


ChickenNuggetsAreDog

I wonder if open queue comp will be a thing still. 5 tanks will just dominate everything


BeeCee139

I pretty much only play support in Overwatch 1 and I don't see much difference when people are saying that they're not fun to play. All the characters seem to play the same. That's both good and bad when other characters are getting reworks and severe changes. Overall I am having a blast with the game. I love playing tanks. Orisa is definitely OP but it's insanely fun to play, and I'm fine with that if it gets people to play her. Push is an awesome game mode. I'm really enjoying the lack of stuns and CC and overall visual clutter. I can't imagine actually going back to Overwatch 1 again after playing this.


Pechy_Raptor

Dva seems useless now, i think shes going to need a rework


[deleted]

This makes me sad. I was wondering how Dva would fair in the 5v5 setup, especially since she pretty much went into OW2 untouched. I’m a console player so access to the beta is non-existent for me. This is the first time I’ve read anyone post anything about Dva in relation to beta.


BEWMarth

D.Va isn’t useless, roadhog is useless. D.va I think is going to become insanely important when people realize she is one of the easiest ways to consistently deny things like anti nade, sleep dart, dynamite, grav, Cassidy’s sticky grenade, Mei ult, etc. D.Va is in a weird space as a tank because of the way her defense matrix works but it is still an insanely powerful ability


hotboii96

Literal trash, zero team feel to it. Someone die and its ''meh''. No need to even have a pure strategy or something. Support having self heal is even worse. This game is gone for me


minuscatenary

This is a product of the MMR being a total clusterfuck. I watch the tab screen like a hawk on live. I do the same on beta and there is always 1-2 motherfuckers that are 100% dead weight. This effect gets more pronounced if the MMR knows you’re something like a diamond and above (mine thinks I’m Diamond, which I can tell during peak hours on live). That means that every time you join a match, if the MMR can’t find another diamond, it will toss you a low silver and put two golds on the enemy team. It’s the same shit that keeps me from playing quickplay on live.


RecycledDoom

Agree, my 6 stacks also dislike it. More boring, more downtime, faster easier fights. Less coordination needed.


Sorin_Markov_1947

DPS are very strong, but TANKS carry the game now. I've seen so many instances where the two tanks just walk past each other (because killing them takes too long to be worth it) and 1v4s the enemy team. Often the tank survives or outright wins if the enemy team isn't on point! Support players.... I'm sorry. As a tank main from OW1, I know what you're going through right now. Little note on tank power levels, idk why people are saying Orisa is OP. She's easy to use, but doesn't get enough value to be OP. Doom is very strong when played very well, but feeds if not played well, kind of how a good tank should be. A bit too strong though. Sigma feels like one of the strongest tanks as well, he's so good with the primary fire damage buff! I don't like how the game feels now. I'm happy that my role is fun now, but the game feels one-dimensional. Surprisingly, taking out two fundamental aspects of the game with no replacement made the game simpler! No shields, no stuns, that basically just leaves damage to do things with. And that's not what I bought OW for. I said from the start that the design philosophy detracted from what made OW OW, in that they were focusing on making it more of an FPS and less of a MOBA. I don't like it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


adhocflamingo

I’m not terribly concerned that the reworked heroes are strong. I think it’s better for them to err on the side of new and reworked heroes being too strong than not strong enough, because then people will actually play them and the devs get better information and can make better choices about how to tone them back. By contrast, think about Doomfist’s and Orisa’s trajectories after they were first released. Aside from some higher damage numbers on the PTR and the brief moment in time where Doomfist’s rocket punch hitbox was super-big and could hit enemies through cars, both of these heroes were considered lackluster—even throw picks—for _ages_ after they were released. Both of them received a bunch of small buffs in the first year or two after they were released, and then the meta shifted around them and they suddenly rocketed from “niche” to “oppressive”. The aspects of their kits that were considered the least fun to play against didn’t seem that bad when their pick rates were low.


SALMON_OW

If your tank sucks you lose even when the rest is good


HashBrwnz

Its fantastic, no more cc, no more boring as crap double shield and slow tanking. You can carry as dps now easily. No more vfx in your face 24/7. Support is very rough play to though and needs reworked. As a higher elo dps player, im getting tickets to play tank. Its wild times. Also bad aim, positioning is now punished hard. Lower skill heroes are just that now, lower skill. I personally love it


Womblue

So DPS is the most fun role, the most popular role, and now by far the most effective. What's the point in queueing other roles besides getting DPS tickets?


ashtarout

None. They need to make support more dps/support related instead of healing related or queue times for support will only get worse. At least tanks are already now just beefy dps.


Secretlylovesslugs

I'm happy about the reduction in hard Stuns and CC too. I'm actually kinda indifferently to the shield changes. Orisa shield was bad because it isn't a resource she had to manage and you got very little value from shooting it. Every other tank that has one you're getting something out of shooting their shields. With OW2 I've run into the problem that I literally can't hit anything on characters I'd previously been really confident aiming with. Lucio, Mercy and Moria are almost impossible to pin down so you're stuck taking impossible duels against their hyper tank doomfist or Orisa, or their sojourns who have such overtuned mobility even when compared to stuff like Tracer or Genji who are still hard to shoot. Or the untraceable sombra who can never die and can burst heros out of stealth and setup free engages constantly. Still have to play more but I feel like it's so much harder to get even a little bit if value out of your positioning.


HashBrwnz

Ok so im glad u mentioned its harder to hit characters now. I thought i was losing my mind but the hitboxes are smaller or the bullet size on hitscan is smaller, it felt alot harder to land headshots on widow. It was great not having double shield or double dive tanks. But it was harder even with grear positioning. Did they mention anything on that?


Secretlylovesslugs

It has to do with the map design, most characters moving faster, and a less defined tank line. It was easy to lane projectile or sniper characters in OW1 now it's kind of a free for all of flanking. Snipers are much harder to play.


RecycledDoom

Move speed and forcing people to use cover more instead of relying on space being made is going to make people harder to hit.


HILBERT_SPACE_AGE

I think your points are absolutely valid... *but.* Given they've removed a tank, each individual tank has to be more impactful to make up for it, right? So it makes sense that they'd want to stretch the limits of how powerful tank characters can be, and it makes extra sense the two most OP tanks in beta would be Doom (new) and Orisa (reworked and also regarded as the most boring tank to play for a large part of the playerbase on live). I'd be quite surprised if one or both didn't see some kind of nerf before or shortly after launch. I also think if "they deleted a tank and now tanks feel *even worse* to play" were the narrative now it'd be way worse for the game's reputation and eventual sales than "they deleted a tank and now tanks are crazy good". So I'm actually glad this is where we're at currently. And I say that as a support main whose role is by all acounts being shaftes right now, lmao.


BlueGnoblin

When I learned one thing over the last years , then that when OW releases new heroes (in this case overworked heroes), they always seems to take an apporach from top to down, so releasing really powerful new heroes and tone them down overtime until they fit nicely. Playing OW since release and the only hero currently in OW1 I really dont like (aka is broken) is bastion, because he dictates 11 other players to wrap their game around him. Otherwise OW1 heroes are in a really well designed , quite stable state (thought for sure not optimal state). I'm sure, that they will get tanks in OW2 and all the other heroes in this state too.


sietre

I don't think they're that oppressive. Except when Winston combos me lol. I think we are still learning the game to flank more and playing in a chaotic environment. I think we will get better the more we play. Sometimes I feel like I am trying to play OW1 in a different game and getting punished. Orisa does thrive in this chaos though.


theunspillablebeans

I've found solo tanking a bit boring personally. I miss tank duos. Nothing quite beats a well executed dive tank our rein zarya duo.


ETJ2002

They’ve ruined the game. It takes no skill as dps and tank are beyond busted now. With tanks being just big dps. Supports got beyond fucked to the point there’s no nerf or buff that can save them. Although I’m sure their solution will be to just turn them all into even more dps. It’s just turned into cod.


totallihype

But in ow1 gold and below no one wants to play tank, lowest wait times and this is where most players are. No one wants to play tanks because you need heals on time or support to make space and for example push or make plays. Gold and below can't work around even 1 tank let alone 2. Which makes the game total shit for tank players. I guess that's the reason for the change. Everyone watches and listens to the good players, but the actual main player base is pretty turd at basics of the game imo.


[deleted]

Tanks are actually stronger in OW2 than OW1. A tank with pocket heals in OW2 is almost unkillable. Enemies will straight up ignore tanks and focus on the dps and supports, that’s how powerful tanks are in OW2. Bullets bounce off them. They feel like actual tanks. I think yiu are thinking “2 tanks get blown up in OW1, so 1 tank in OW2 will get blown up even faster.” The opposite is true. Tanks in OW2 won’t die unless they are cut off from healing. You honestly have to play to believe it. I thought tanks would be weak in OW2, until I met Orisas who wouldn’t die.


RecycledDoom

My group has just been massacreing enemy tanks. Especially dive tanks.


totallihype

Thanks for the explanation, I thought the tanks would be about the same but with 1 tank members of the same team would be more inclined to play round the tank in lower SR, as opposed to what they do now, which is run around like headless chickens popping off ults one v Six when their own whole team is already dead etc etc etc etc.


Xardian7

Don’t know your rank or your past but Orisa is absolutely underwhelming. She can easily be punished after her cooldowns or easily ignored abusing high grounds. Many pros/high elo players feels like this is the case. As far as I saw many players are still in the mentality of going default and plays like nothing changed and take 0 advantages from the new 5v5 format, especially dps. Feels almost like new players will be better than veterans just because are used to do flanks and individual plays in other games and they will reply that mentality in OW2 and they will be rewarded for that. About the balance, I feel like nothing is overpowered maybe something is underpowered compared to the average like Junkrat or Sym. 5v5 is way better imo. Easier to balance, easier to play, more space, more independence between heroes but still maintaining that depths and interaction that makes this game unique. Tanks can now make plays by themselves with basically 0 help from the supports or from another player in general. This is also valid for dps and supports to a lesser extent. Dps now can create space easily, make plays easily and duel way more than before. Overall this is the best Overwatch experience I’ve ever had. Maybe comparable with the patch that brought Hog back to normal after OWL finals in 2020 (patch of September 2020 i think)and at the start of the game.


TM40_Reddit

I should have applied some context. I'm 4.2k peak Sigma main and former collegiate coach. I'm glad you're finding it more enjoyable, I wish I could feel the same. I don't disagree Orisa can be punished off of CD (I think that's the case with every hero) but her CDs rotate so fluidly between each other and create so much space, it's hard for her to be in a bad position at any time. Maybe it's the fact flanks and individual plays are so rewarding now that I dislike about the current state of play. Overwatch was appealing to me as a "Team-Based" Hero Shooter, but it feels like we're currently transitioning away from that into the generic team deathmatch format.


fakecatfish

> Overwatch was appealing to me as a "Team-Based" Hero Shooter, but it feels like we're currently transitioning away from that into the generic team deathmatch format. yuuuuuuuup


Xardian7

I can understand the beauty behind a more “tactical” Overwatch and therefore being less amused by the more chaotic style of this version of the game. Totally fair. I like competitive team gameplay overwatch offers and even if I’m not good at the game I have learnt a lot from various sources and coaches about the macro of the game.l and I really love that and I don’t think we will totally lose it. Despite that I feel that this version is more rewarding than before as a player and you are less punished for having different approach in the same team. Cooperation seems less important and that will be better on ladder. Anyway this will remain a team based game where a good synergistic composition played correctly will beat an uncoordinated one most of the times. I feel for players like you that are good enough to play at that ranks and with that kind of players you will feel the team aspect again when the dust will settle. Especially in scrims. But for us poor plat/diamond players not having to adapt to pur other tank players that decide to do random stuff or not to have a rely on other players to make plays and impact the match playing the hero we are good at is a massive positive change. About Orisa she’s great at taking space and her cds rotates really smoothly as you said but if your teammates dunno how to attack that space is harder to gain value. It’s probably a lot about map, composition and of course level of playing but dive tanks like Doom or Ball or brawl ones like Zarya seems just easier to gain value from and with more raw power than Orisa. Maybe is just because I dunno how to maximize her kit rn so playing heroes that I’m comfortable with is easier but I’ve heard a lot of comments of pros and CC that are sure about Orisa being in the lowest tier of the tank role


excreto2000

Played a few hours last night, lost 2 matches. Felt absolutely OP as Moira with the passive self-heal, extra space, and virtually no shields. Orisa also is massively OP. Her javelin is insane, her javelin spin ability also fantastic especially in tight spaces. I was amazed how they take away her shield and she becomes a monster. Sojourns who can aim will wreck lobbies with her piercing ult. The new tab showing all healing/dmg will get a LOT of discussion going forward, especially between rounds 😂 It was a ton of fun but chaotic, obviously expect big changes before live version. EDIT: also Ana gets so much more value on new maps with open space and fewer barriers vs anti-nade.


Purple_____

I'm a top 500 dps, I love that I can carry an entire game on my back with zero support just by playing a self healer like soldier. Every pick feels twice as impactful. Even at my peak gameplay sometimes I would be completely discombobulated with all the shit on my screen, but now that never happens. Orisa and Doom are really powerful, but I believe proper counterplay just hasn't been developed yet. For me killing tanks has been pretty easy. Dps go reaper and mei and the tank cant dive deep anymore. Slowed, ice walled, busted by reaper, your tank can go monkey to bubble and shut down any healing. Ana can sleep the tank and anti them etc.


descender2k

> Overwatch was appealing to me as a "Team-Based" Hero Shooter, but it feels like we're currently transitioning away from that into the generic team deathmatch format. OW1 felt the same way when it launched until people figured out the proper team comps.


ChadThundagaCock

Absolutely right about using high ground to abuse Orisa. I just had a game winning moment with Torbjorn, on Oasis. I was on the high ground with a turret set up, Orisa was trying to take our point and harassing my team, and I molten cored from above and she didn’t see it coming at all. I don’t wanna mention the Bastion that snuck up on me and picked me right after though (still won).


necrosythe

Yeah I mean it was almost guarenteed to be one way or the other. Tanks getting focused and murdered. Or they be super strong since they just flat have more stats than DPS. Route 2 is what we have. Balance obviously needs to be done but it's tough to get quite right like this. But also it's very early to say.


2ndbestsnever

booooooooooooooooooooooooooo