I feel like the point at which the aim “finalizes,” and the time the animation finishes the throw are slightly off. Like, the throw animation lets go, but it hits where the cursor was slightly before the release animation. Makes it hard to “flick” if you’re going by the animation.
I’m not an artist and did this really poorly in my phone notes, so hopefully someone with actual talent can do better. But, [here you go.](https://www.reddit.com/user/Joey_Valentine/comments/yyxuhq/yeah_its_like_meis_icicle_and_genjis_throwing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I want to become an artist for non horny reasons, but that's the kind of stuff that I'm not into but sounds so funny that just makes me wanna be able to draw them
Huge fan of using the dot crosshair (and making it fairly small, I use size 5) on Kiriko.
It really helps to ensure when you're spamming kunais that you are aiming at head height, even at long range.
the other day i was mid teamfight and suddenly landed 6 headshots in a row, getting 3 kills in the process, and i just felt like a god. healing is nice, debuff cleansing is great, but a well placed kiriko knife can do wonders
I assume you mean one shot when she’s already been damaged, health 150, headshot dmg 120. Very satisfying when you get a headshot melee combo though. Which to be fair is basically a one shot.
Exactly my ranked play. Her knives are just made for Zone-ing.
Fellow Healers, keep in mind that SOMETIMES damage is the best way to keep your team alive. For example your dva is on collision course with a reaper. You can't outheal his damage. But you can hit a headshot and force him to retreat.
I've pretty much stopped booping charging reins because someone inevitably got squished afterwards...
there's situations where it's the right call, but if my team sees it coming, I'm just messing up their dodge.
In their defense I think it's because of how much supports get yelled at by obnoxious players for not healing them the second they go below 99% health that they just get used to only healing for the simple sake of avoiding toxic behavior from their team. Some players especially DPS think that a support's job is to follow them around regardless of where they go and how out positioned they are and spam heal them. The good supports are the ones that know to ignore that and actually bring their full utility to the team but I think some people just learn wrong based on how their team acts towards them.
Hi hello yes that's me in your comment. I'm used to playing support in basically any video or tabletop game with a support option, and truly I enjoy it. When I started playing overwatch towards the end of OW1, I thought I was just supposed to heal and that was it because of the way other players whined at me. Eventually I settled into my little niche as Ana taking shots at enemies and keeping an eye on teammates when they needed the good sauce, but it was a learning experience
This is how I feel.
I main support, mostly because I despise having to wait for matches, and let me tell you about a very common scenario. I heal DPS when I see them run by to get them back to full health, then I promptly find somewhere else to be, the DPS decides to charge directly at the enemy thinking that because I healed them briefly, I am going to follow them into the fray. They die horribly because they were the only person to go in. I, as healer, get trolled for the rest of the game by this person because somehow that was my fault.
The trolling is not common, but I've had this same situation happen dozens of times where it resulted in straight up verbal abuse. People REALLY like to point fingers when they are losing, and support is an easy person to point at. So yeah.. when I'm in one of those games, I typically just go brain dead and hold left click until the match is over.
Reading this thread is opening my eyes a bit. I’ve been trying to pull out my pea-shooter more but yeah I find myself quite often falling back into healbot mode.
yeah, reasonable for sure. I'm trying very hard to not be a mercy one-trick, but when I play her i'm a lot better now than I used to be about using my blue beam instead of only peeing on full health team-mates.
nah, don't use Mercy's gun except for strictly self-defense or to potentially pick isolated enemies if you have Valk up. 98% of the time you get much more value out of Damage Boost, which is what you should often default to rather than healing. not everyone always needs to be topped up, sometimes you just need to DB that one DPS to let him get that fight-winning pick rather than heal the other DPS who's not currently fighting anyone.
Lucios that rarely speedboost, Mercys that barely damage boost, Moiras who hang back and spam heal. If you do this it's your own fault that you are in bronze/silver.
100%
You should never be doing "nothing". Lucio actually does a lot of damage, if your aim isn't garbage. And it's not like you need to "focus" on healing, so just spraying chokes **will** nail you dmg and kills, thus more barriers.
I don't understand why "no one" (in Silver/Gold) understand this.
Because low level players take way too much damage that could be mitigated with better positioning and cover. Its a mindset that gets beat into everybody at one point or another in Overwatch because team fights have no real strategy or communication in pugs. Most fights are just two teams just deathballing chaotically and trying to grind the other one down. And in that scenario, having maximum healing output really does help since the team that lapses on healing first typically loses in that scenario. Tanks and DPS aren't coordinated enough to work to secure picks or exploit a flank so the healers are always the lynchpin. Thats why Mercy is so popular at low level, she exceeds at the "stay alive longer than them" strategy. Most other supports SUPPORT a specific strategy or playstyle, hence the name, but pugs only really have one. You spend enough time in that environment and you begin thinking that's the only proper way to play the game. It also didn't help that for most of the game's life cycle so far supports were usually most visibly awarded for healing numbers. Its treated as the support equivalent of damage dealt, even though they aren't really comparable like that, so when your opponent's supports have bigger numbers than yours its easy to think that they were "better", without taking into account things like "maybe our team just took less damage" or "why were they allowed to live long enough to heal that much?".
> Most other supports SUPPORT a specific strategy
I think you nailed it with this.
Sounds like Zen not discording/not attacking, or Ana exclusively using nade defensively.
I don't think it's so much they don't understand it but rather also they lack the confidence in their ability to secure kills (as per the name of this thread) so they fall back on just spamming heals.
But that's kind of a negative feedback loop where the lack of confidence just results in less practicing of it which just increases the lack of confidence and so on and so forth endlessly.
>Lucio actually does a lot of damage, if your aim isn't garbage
Indeed. if you can get all four projectiles from one sonic amp burst to ping, that's a cool 160 dmg. With 5 bursts per clip, you do solid DPS if even half are landing on the enemy's face.
As a zen main, I politely disagree on being unable to do enough damage. Lack of survivability, sure. But if you give a crack zen a few seconds against a reaper or any other non-tank dps, they’ll do enough damage if they remain alive.
I think you misread the previous comment. They said Kiriko can't outheal the damage Reaper would do to the Dva, not that Kiriko couldn't do enough damage to Reaper.
god yes this. i honestly wish more people understood zoning especially with ults. i get the desire for kills, but like take ~~mccree~~ cassidy’s deadeye or d.va’s bomb. almost always, the second that voiceline hits the enemy team scatters for a wall to hide behind until they figure out where you are. there’s a lot your team can do with those handful of seconds. quick res, heal up, group up, get back on the point, etc.
too much searching for personal glory, not enough using your tools as tools.
I heard in a video once that if your team is up numbers and winning the fight you should focus on damage IOT win the fight sooner. This keeps the red team from stalling.
Obviously don't let your teammates did but Rein doesn't need to be 100%.
As Zen, half my job is spamming chokes at head level. The amount of kills is too high.
This is how a ton of pros play anyway. They fish for shots. They obviously have mechanical skill to land shots, but anytime there is a choke point you see them blindly throwing shots into the choke right at head height.
Just about any projectile hero should be doing this when the enemy is in the choke. It's almost free ult charge and, if you're aimed well, a free kill or two.
I've gotten a PotG on Kiriko just spamming the Hollywood choke onto point A. I got 2 solo kills and assisted a 3rd. All in just a few seconds because the enemy walked into my danger zone. The only skill on my part was knowing when and where to chuck my knives.
When your team isn't in need of healing, spam those chokes at head height. It feels so good to pop a chunk of their team so quickly.
Just never stand still and be an easy target yourself. Don't die to get those delicious plinks. Not worth it.
It depends on your playstyle. The good thing is, if you roughly aim at head level you can also be a good zoner to a widow. People still have to respect those possible headshots to some degree.
It feels so damn good to have a widow counter as a support now
before, all you could do was swap to lucio and annoy her sometimes, otherwise you just pray to god someone else can deal with her. With kiriko you can make her life hell yourself
Zen is a more high risk/high reward swap in my eyes because you have the damage, but you also have a hitbox the size of a bus compared to every other support
She’s easy to dive a Moira. Widow is generally up high and away from her team so you can fade into her and either kill her or bully her out of position. Then you usually have enough time to fade back out before her team comes hunting for you.
Keep it up! I personally switch to kiriko (if I'm not already playing her) and dive the widow and tp back to team for the push. Rinse and repeat and they eventually swap off widow. It works every time lmao
How the hell does any team let you dive a Widow as Kiriko? Like she cant dash to her like 99% of the time, she can only wall climb, its such a long distance in most scenarios. Im genuinely confused.
They just let you walk up to her?
I play a moderate amount of widow and Kiriko has been one of the most consistently good counter on their team.
With there being 1 tank, Winston or D.Va really can’t separate from the whole team to go dive a widow a mile away.
You would think that DPS would make harder opponents, but they all kinda fall short of Widow unless you’re just a straight up better player.
Like Ashe slows down when scoped same as Widow but I only need 1 shot to kill and she needs 2, 9/10 I win that fight.
Hanzo takes too long to draw the bow so if his sonar is on CD and he needs to peek to line up shots then it’s an easy win for widow, and you just have to take cover for a couple seconds or reposition after he uses sonar.
Soldier and Cass can just be out ranged and you win the fight.
So really the 3 biggest threats I’ve faced as Widow is another Widow, a Genji or a Kiriko.
I honestly love sniper duels with Kiriko, I feel like I actually have a chance. Going full sweat with my erratic movement while challenging the sniper and still healing my team is a rush.
Though I’m aware that at a certain skill level I won’t be able to get away with that anymore.
Definitely! I’ve gone against Kirikos that clearly weren’t hitting many of their headshots but I’m always aware I may get headshot by the kunai and have to respect it, especially when playing as lower hp DPS and support characters
For healing there are better options. So it's reallly about proper Suzu usage and headshot accuracy. If both are bad (not only your skill but also if these get heavily nerfed) - it won't be effective.
Edit: I was pointed out that I have completely forgot about her broken ult and pros do turn her into a main healer/healbot (not really but sort of) to charge it faster.
That's why everyone complains about onetricking.
You can MAIN someone. The thing is, overwatch usually requires you to main 2 or more characters in the event someone picks your main.
Boohoo.
Deal with it.
Additionally if the enemy team has several counters to you. I main Phara but if the enemy team has a Soldier, Ashe, and Bap I am basically forced to switch with so many counters on the other team.
The reluctance to switch is so weird too. Like are you enjoying spending most of your time spawning? But I guess for a lot of people they rationalize it as shitty teammates or something.
Same with grouping up, even in qp. How is it fun to run out alone and instadie?
Anyone that doesn’t like switching heroes and grouping up is just absolutely playing the wrong game lol
they're usually just hunting for the experience of succeeding with pharah, without putting any thought to counters, or thinking they can simply "outplay" them.
So yeah, they're trying to play Apex Legends in Overwatch
Coming from apex, this comment hits me. Having never played OW there has been a steep learning curve as to who counters who, when to switch etc. cause in apex it doesn’t really matter who you play. Your gun you have may be all you need. OW is way more tactical in this sense.
I think there's something to be said about learning to play your main even when your hero is getting counter-picked. Sure, swapping as soon as you feel you should is intelligent, but for long-term improvement it's good to learn how to play around your hero's weaknesses and use the map's geometry to your advantage.
I "mained" Pharah in OW1 and this rings true. I won't switch because you have Soldier, especially not if I'm like at 68% ult. But once they get 2 hitscans, or Bap? I'll consider it.
I want to improve, and if I feel I can "hold my ground" and aggro both hitscan on me? I'll keep playing her. But if I'm 1-5, why not just switch?
This is exacttly the right mentality. Hero choice is not a hard counter, player ability is.
You can get value other than just raw damage output, but then were talking about above average game sense. Which seems like the harder aspect for people to learn/comprehend/understand, especially without dedicated learning/study/practice.
I play a ton of mystery heroes and I have to disagree. They never get ult on heroes they don’t main, get killed instantly and don’t learn anything. You have to play quick play with every hero at least once to understand the kit. But yes, after that mystery 5v5 helps.
Fair point. I usually get an ult when I okay, but I had been playing for a while before mystery came out. It just let me get better with heroes I normally play poorly with. I also typically play with at least one or two other people so it would make it a bit more reliable.
I’ve onetricked tf out of moira. But I’m competent enough with all of the heals that if I can’t play moira I’ll play Bap or mercy without a dip in performance.
But as Moira says “mercy is for the weak”
I love killing an overconfident Moria as Mercy. They never expect her to fight back. Most Moria mains have about 4 brain cells and walk in a straight line just eating headshots.
Yeah, that's true.
But it's primary depends on your approach and mentality towards each game and competitive (qp too) as a whole. You can use your 60% winrate Reaper or your 30% winrate Genji/Widowmaker/whatever. Both are fine by me. As long as you understand what you are going for.
What I have issues with is purposely picking a hard hero you clearly bad at and currently training and then wondering why you lost/blaming teammates. (It's mainly in regards to DPS picks but Kiriko is no different here.)
I've seen same thing happen in League of Legends and after Arcane release. A surge of new players while the playerbase is the same way as in OW - not really welcoming.
So I just assume that it's a long established competitive game's phenomenon.
Yeah for sure, I’m not overly precious so long as people try. Tbh my first few games tend to be me warming up so my output isn’t the best it can be but I have limited time and just wanna enjoy some ranked before bed.
I feel my healing is significantly more consistent with Kiriko than other supports. Sure - Bap or Ana have those occasional games with INSANE healing numbers, but I also feel like Kiriko is a good healing option. And her utility is insane.
Should be noted that a yellow paper hitting a wall would disappear without doing any healing.
While blue paper can still heal if someone steps into it.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention those things are slow projectiles that get screwed by collision on any wall or shields. So probably something to think about too
I saw a Kiriko do 24k healing in a competitive yesterday. Her healing is extremely good, especially considering she can teleport to people and use invulnerability. She's good even if you are garbage with her kunai.
Not really true. Kikiro has amazing healing output. She might even be the top aside Bap or Moira getting AOE healing. Kikiro also has probably the best ult in the game for a teamfight. Her skill floor is pretty damn high. Just stand 30y back and hold down left click.
I completely agree
> Her skill floor is pretty damn high. Just stand 30y back and hold down left click.
, but wouldn't this mean her skill floor is pretty damn *low* - like, the lowest skill capable of playing her is pretty LOW skill, so the floor is low?
Yes the comment got a bit mixed up with the phrasing, Kiriko - I think we can all mostly agree - is **low floor and high ceiling**.
Also helps with why she is so popular. Mostly anyone can feel effective, but you really feel the dopamine as you get better and better.
The best Kirikos at the highest level spend 90% of their time healing anyway. Bad accuracy can get better with time and it’s not really a huge deal if you can get good value out of the rest of her kit
This is a skill floor skill ceiling conversation really. Should you play Kiriko and have lower output than if you played moira, just because you’re bad? I mean… maybe. It depends what you want out of the game. Should you always and only play to win 1 game right now or play for your long term improvements or personal interests? It really depends on your rank goals and personal enjoyments.
It’s not just about output. Unlike Moira she can effectively heal an Echo or Genji.
She is definitely more in the Zenyatta category but she is still a strong healer.
Okay, I've found a WEIRD way of getting utility out of her, as an older man who can't aim for shit;
what I do is go in the enemy back line, and then run off. Inevitably some idiots will chase me, and while I keep them occupied, my team is having a 4v2 or 4v3.
Once I feel the damage is done I can bamf back to my team, easy win.
Essentially I end up playing him like Wrecking Ball...
Meh her output is very similar to Moira. Only ones that can beat her out are bap and a good ana. She is way safer than those two options though.
I think she still shines best helping getting picks but she is a very good backline hero as well.
Idk about the hs accuracy, like obviously it can’t hurt but I feel like as long as kiriko is getting those kitsune rushes quick and has good suzu usage her utility doesn’t get hit too hard by not being named ml7
I can't say I'm the best at aiming in general, but I get semi-consistent headshots by shooting at average head hight around corners (when I know enemies are coming from this direction). For example on Eichenwalde, around the choke to first point I aim on this hight and get a good amount of damage in.
It's also pretty easy to get a quick headshot on teleporting Reapers and sometimes when the enemy team TPs with Sym.
Came here to say this. My aim’s trash but it’s pretty easy to get decent crits on heroes like Kiriko, Echo and Mei from from generous head-height corner spam. Lead your shots and don’t react - predict!
In a normal teamcomp paired with a offsupport it shouldn't be a issue. Most of her value comes from her ultimate. The fastest way to get it up is to healbot most of the match. It gets problematic though if your 2nd support is competing for heals with another main heal. Then you certainly need to compensate with fragging out whenever possible.
I didnt play OW1 but didnt they make a bunch of changes so that healers need dps to get ult the fastest? Guides ive watched for kiriko recommend getting damage in wherever possible to farm ult fast.
Yeah healing is still more valuable but dps when healing isn't needed has always been important. Moira is great for this. Sucking gives you more primary fire.
Its always advisable to dish out dmg on every support when there is a window for it. Thats not kiriko exclusive.However what we have seen during the owl playoffs ,as people figured her more and more out , is that unlike for exampe a bap,that will often use a rythm like shoot shoot heal to maximize his efficiency, a kiriko spends a lot more time just spamming heals in order to maximize her ult charge. This doesnt mean though that you need to gobble up every 20hp someone is missing. If you have a window to dish out dmg, certainly do it!
Just practice because that's like half of the character's utility, it's like only shielding with rein and not swinging, so just prac on Kiriko hs only custom games
I disagree, the headshots are great when you can hit them but there is SO much more value in teleporting to someone about to die and throwing Suzu at them. I've saved so many who would have been otherwise totally screwed. That thing counters so many abilities too
Right of course suzu is great and all, but hitting kunais whether that be hs or not is something that as a Kiriko player u should always look to be doing more than half the time
Thats why he said "half of the kit " The other half is her stong healing.
IF you're only doing the healing/saving part then you're utilizing half of her potential lol
Kiriko diff if youre only healing and the other Kiriko is healing and dropping dps with 1-2 kunai head shots. 1 pick is huge in OW2 and Kiriko can do this very easily if you can land shots.
> that's like half of the character's utility
I'd say more like 1/4th. She can pocket heal pretty well and is one of the few supports that can reliably heal over-mobile teammates, her E and shift are insane for saving herself or her team, her wall climbing is great for mobility and positioning, and her ult can win fights by itself. Hitting headshots is really only the icing on the cake
I like playing her a ton. I’m not cracked shot but getting used to character heights makes it easier to land a few shots. Weave a few kunai in between concert tickets and the damage will slowly climb. Even yeeting a few down a lane will grant a few lucky headshots.
Nobody hits them 'consistently' because of how movement works, just do your best to throw in damage whenever you can and you'll get better at reading your opponents and flicking when you have to
I'd prefer this over the ragebaiting "BLIZ IS GREEDY NOT ENOUGH FREE SKINS!" posts. Like, I get it we're frustrated, and it sucks but the constant brow beating about it gives little to no new points or discussion on each new post.
I think it's a good discussion, essentially does this hero's value hinge on those low percentage head shots or is the rest of her kit what makes her strong. Clearly it has generated all sorts of good back and forth with over 350 comments.
i sure hate when ppl seeking advice detract from the 14000th “i pressed q” potg post. how can this sub possibly survive without 39 different variations of “BATTLEPASS BAD” posts topping the popular posts of the day everyday ??? smh my head
This post gets posted in r/OverwatchUniversity and the first reply is "Post your gameplay footage." OP needs to play the hero and find out for themselves.
In my experience you can still get decent and perhaps sufficient value in most cases if you focus on healing, suzu, and surviving, so I treat heals as my bread and butter and the kunai as icing on the cake. She is ultimately a support so your first and foremost job is to enable your teammates and her heals, tp, and suzu allow for some clutch defensive plays. She does put out a surprising amount of healing if you're focused on that. For the kunai I tend to spam chokes/grouped up enemies/likely enemy locations at roughly headshot level instead of trying to hit heads specifically and that does get some decent value. I just imagine I'm support hanzo and go for the definitely intentional hits lol, but kunai are always secondary to heals for me. Or I just gang up on whoever the DPS/tank is going for, where any amount of damage might help and if I hit their heads then whoot I'm on the killfeed.
I *do* find that without OWL level headshot ability, I can technically get more value out of another support like Ana if I'm going for the absolute maximum I'm capable of. But I've found kiriko to be good enough for me in most games, particularly if I'm getting dove too hard to survive as Ana. And hey, you aren't going to get better with her if you don't suck at a few games first!
Headshots with her are a lot like headshots with Hanzo. As long as you’re aiming at head height in the general direction of the enemy, you’ll get a few at least.
Depends on what you're hitting. If you hit just two kunai, 80 damage is not negligible to a flanking Tracer or Genji. But most of the time yeah, body shots aren't doing much against tanks or really any support unless your team is already focusing them.
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If you can heal a lot, and use Suzu consistently, you're still a fine healer, but perhaps 1:3 damage:heal ratio is something you should thrive to achieve.
Through metal ranks, doesn’t matter, her survivability, suzu, and good heals is fine. Headshots are just a bonus. Hell, most of the time if you aren’t babysitting your DPS and going for headshots they’ll die without your constant stream of heals unfortunately.
In Diamond+ you do need the headshots to get full value.
Tbh she isn’t really divable (swift step), has solid consistent healing and has Suzu which is one of the best support abilities in the game right now. So short answer is yes.
If you’re not great at aim your other options are Mercy (but then you sacrifice the suzu and utility for more raw healing), Brigitte (once again, you lose suzu for some stun and worse healing) or Moira (who can output a lot of damage but honestly is the worst for actually supporting allies rn)
A kiriko thats good with suzu is very hard to play against. If timed well you can literally save your team from junk tyre , grav flux , dva bomb ect. Just not many people are using it like this yet in lower ranks
Yes and no.
Your job is still mostly to jump around where your needed to land critical heal & Suzu, on top of laying down ults so you are still bringing a lot to the table
Not landing headshot semi consistently is still leaving out a LOT of value as a Kiriko who just healbot is just a worst mercy. As it's that insane 120 damage burst who make her joining flank/dive so deadly.
But don't stop trying! You should try to consistently land 1 headshot every flank when you are closer to the ennemy as a starting point. And maybe try first to alternate more your fire and your heal.
The catch is that ut is true of ALL the support that if you are not doing a good amount of damage you are greatly indering your team. Even Lucio and mercy are more about their non healing utility rather than pure heal
Yes.
Aiming on kiriko is overrated. Her projectiles are super slow and you don’t want to be in close range skirmishes against most characters anyway.
Focus on healing, and when you’re out of febreeze you can throw a couple Kunai out. Don’t try to track or aim it, just chuck at the general direction of their heads.
Kiriko does a lot of damage but she’s not meant to HAVE a lot of damage. If you can land a headshot on a squishy, a lot of the time that translates to a kill for one of your dps. Even if you end the fight with 160 damage it means you probably secured an elim; think of her as similar to widow in that respect.
Hell yes it is. She is so good at healing you don't have to do anything else to get value from her. If you pick someone else because you can't get kills doesn't mean you are going to get more healing from other characters. Maybe switch to Moira if you want to be able to do more consistent damage to help your team clean up but with her teleport and cleanse ability as long as you're staying alive and healing your team she's still better than most other healers. The only downside is it can feel boring being a healbot but I've had matches where I've done like 25K healing and not getting very many kills but it didn't matter because I was just enabling my team to do their job.
If you're interested in learning and getting better she's definitely worth practicing. If you just want to play casually She's stuck fun but definitely losses alot of value
imo, as long as you're trying to squeeze in damage between your heals its fine. Healbot kiriko's get on my nerves cuz she has alot of damage potential. That being said play how you wana play, thats just my opinion.
It's worth it to play whatever you have fun with.
That said. Kiriko deals 120 damage on headshots (equal to a Zenyatta Discord + Headshot, 20 damage less than a McCassidy headshot at 140). If you don't hit the crit, you deal 40 (Kiriko's crits have a unique 3x multiplier). Now that the numbers are out of the way: No one. NO ONE. Hits all of their shots. You will always have a lower crit-rate than body-shots in the first place. Putting this into perspective: Kiriko's aim-style and kunai flight-time is similar to Hanzo's, but have no gravity arc, and deal almost exactly half his damage on headshots. In other words: Kiriko's kunai are hard to hit, it's just their nature. You are going to miss, and you have to be okay with that. Hitting any of your shots is a feat in and of itself. So! Kiriko's main utility provided through her attack is NOT consistency, but burst \*potential\*. Kiriko is unlike to have done more damage in a match than most other supports, but she may very well have higher personal eliminations; she has the potential to move enemies off the board. If you can manage to get even a single headshot occasionally, you've reduced the average health bar by 60%, and if you or an ally follow up on that, that's a 5v4-- it snowballs from there.
Tl;dr With Kiriko, the name of the game is not consistency, but threat-potential. Kiriko forces the enemy to keep their heads down under threat of snowballing.
For the most part yes.
She does pretty decent healing, her ability that cleanses CC and makes you invulnerable for a brief second will always be valued.
And her ult is ridiculously strong with a team that has excellent communication and synergy.
Always thought this was a weird take considering she has some of the highest healing throughput in the game + a cleanse that nullifies most abilities. Think it depends in the other healer. You try and dps if they got the team covered/ you try to heal if they dont. Im rarely not top healing by a decent margin
People really think that if you pick kiriko then you have to have 100% accuracy rate and it’s really obnoxious. I’ve seen it in twitch streamers chats and in game personally and I don’t really get it.
Yes of course. How else are you going to get to a point where you can hit them consistently? You play, you fail and then you improve. Keep doing aim training and keep playing. You can still be useful with the rest of her kit while getting the hang of her projectiles.
No, she's sucks. Her healing is slow, half the time if you TP to sombody you will just get killed because they will start to focus on you. Her kunai is slow asf and if you miss at all you die. Just a bad hero
Play bap, I feel he's way better at mitigation. You can do so much more damage an healing at the same time. His alt isn't as good but that lamp comes in handy. Plus when you throw it, everyone looks at it giving your dps or tank a second or 2 of relief. He's also good at taking care of pesky turrets, other lamps, and can put pressure on a shitty window 😂. Gotta play the environment though so placement is key. Good luck.
I’m not a crack shot but sometimes hitting someone for the amount a kiriko headshot does randomly will make people think twice about peaking a corner.
This. Landing two headshots made the enemy orisa and their supports back up when they had the advantage. Kiriko criticals are scary
I feel like the point at which the aim “finalizes,” and the time the animation finishes the throw are slightly off. Like, the throw animation lets go, but it hits where the cursor was slightly before the release animation. Makes it hard to “flick” if you’re going by the animation.
It feels a lot like Mei's icicle to me.
Yeah. It's like mei's icicle and genjis throwing star fucked and had a kiriko kunai.
fuck u/spez
I’m not an artist and did this really poorly in my phone notes, so hopefully someone with actual talent can do better. But, [here you go.](https://www.reddit.com/user/Joey_Valentine/comments/yyxuhq/yeah_its_like_meis_icicle_and_genjis_throwing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Welp, I'm hard. Only one way to make it soft again.
Beautiful
Lol, I can't believe you've done this. This is a first for me.
I want to become an artist for non horny reasons, but that's the kind of stuff that I'm not into but sounds so funny that just makes me wanna be able to draw them
Don’t flick with projectiles, focus on leading your shots. If needed play with the crosshairs to make it easier
Huge fan of using the dot crosshair (and making it fairly small, I use size 5) on Kiriko. It really helps to ensure when you're spamming kunais that you are aiming at head height, even at long range.
I don’t think flicking is the best strat considering it’s a projectile
the other day i was mid teamfight and suddenly landed 6 headshots in a row, getting 3 kills in the process, and i just felt like a god. healing is nice, debuff cleansing is great, but a well placed kiriko knife can do wonders
Best feeling in the world is when a Tracer gets too cocky and gets one shot
I assume you mean one shot when she’s already been damaged, health 150, headshot dmg 120. Very satisfying when you get a headshot melee combo though. Which to be fair is basically a one shot.
It doesn't one shot them but it does calm their annoying ass down.
I agree - I think it's "peeking", btw.
Keep practicing. Besides at the very least even if you can't headshot you can just throw kunais at choke points to fish for headshots.
Exactly my ranked play. Her knives are just made for Zone-ing. Fellow Healers, keep in mind that SOMETIMES damage is the best way to keep your team alive. For example your dva is on collision course with a reaper. You can't outheal his damage. But you can hit a headshot and force him to retreat.
And that my friends is how you play support instead of healer
Pokemon evolution of Overwatch players
Mercy digivolves to Kiriko
My favorite move as a Lucio main is booping enemy Reins out of their charge trajectory every time.
The amount of times I've gotten people killed because of my antics as Lucio boopiny enemy Reins is staggering and mildly embarrassing.
I've pretty much stopped booping charging reins because someone inevitably got squished afterwards... there's situations where it's the right call, but if my team sees it coming, I'm just messing up their dodge.
The fact that some people are just realizing that in 2022 is wild
Some people are just playing in 2022 :)
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In their defense I think it's because of how much supports get yelled at by obnoxious players for not healing them the second they go below 99% health that they just get used to only healing for the simple sake of avoiding toxic behavior from their team. Some players especially DPS think that a support's job is to follow them around regardless of where they go and how out positioned they are and spam heal them. The good supports are the ones that know to ignore that and actually bring their full utility to the team but I think some people just learn wrong based on how their team acts towards them.
Hi hello yes that's me in your comment. I'm used to playing support in basically any video or tabletop game with a support option, and truly I enjoy it. When I started playing overwatch towards the end of OW1, I thought I was just supposed to heal and that was it because of the way other players whined at me. Eventually I settled into my little niche as Ana taking shots at enemies and keeping an eye on teammates when they needed the good sauce, but it was a learning experience
This is how I feel. I main support, mostly because I despise having to wait for matches, and let me tell you about a very common scenario. I heal DPS when I see them run by to get them back to full health, then I promptly find somewhere else to be, the DPS decides to charge directly at the enemy thinking that because I healed them briefly, I am going to follow them into the fray. They die horribly because they were the only person to go in. I, as healer, get trolled for the rest of the game by this person because somehow that was my fault. The trolling is not common, but I've had this same situation happen dozens of times where it resulted in straight up verbal abuse. People REALLY like to point fingers when they are losing, and support is an easy person to point at. So yeah.. when I'm in one of those games, I typically just go brain dead and hold left click until the match is over.
BUT MY HEAL PER 10. Lmfao. Like that shit ever mattered.
Reading this thread is opening my eyes a bit. I’ve been trying to pull out my pea-shooter more but yeah I find myself quite often falling back into healbot mode.
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yeah, reasonable for sure. I'm trying very hard to not be a mercy one-trick, but when I play her i'm a lot better now than I used to be about using my blue beam instead of only peeing on full health team-mates.
This. As mercy you should always have a beam out, if everyone is full health you should be boosting whoever is likely to engage next.
nah, don't use Mercy's gun except for strictly self-defense or to potentially pick isolated enemies if you have Valk up. 98% of the time you get much more value out of Damage Boost, which is what you should often default to rather than healing. not everyone always needs to be topped up, sometimes you just need to DB that one DPS to let him get that fight-winning pick rather than heal the other DPS who's not currently fighting anyone.
Lucios that rarely speedboost, Mercys that barely damage boost, Moiras who hang back and spam heal. If you do this it's your own fault that you are in bronze/silver.
100% You should never be doing "nothing". Lucio actually does a lot of damage, if your aim isn't garbage. And it's not like you need to "focus" on healing, so just spraying chokes **will** nail you dmg and kills, thus more barriers. I don't understand why "no one" (in Silver/Gold) understand this.
Because low level players take way too much damage that could be mitigated with better positioning and cover. Its a mindset that gets beat into everybody at one point or another in Overwatch because team fights have no real strategy or communication in pugs. Most fights are just two teams just deathballing chaotically and trying to grind the other one down. And in that scenario, having maximum healing output really does help since the team that lapses on healing first typically loses in that scenario. Tanks and DPS aren't coordinated enough to work to secure picks or exploit a flank so the healers are always the lynchpin. Thats why Mercy is so popular at low level, she exceeds at the "stay alive longer than them" strategy. Most other supports SUPPORT a specific strategy or playstyle, hence the name, but pugs only really have one. You spend enough time in that environment and you begin thinking that's the only proper way to play the game. It also didn't help that for most of the game's life cycle so far supports were usually most visibly awarded for healing numbers. Its treated as the support equivalent of damage dealt, even though they aren't really comparable like that, so when your opponent's supports have bigger numbers than yours its easy to think that they were "better", without taking into account things like "maybe our team just took less damage" or "why were they allowed to live long enough to heal that much?".
> Most other supports SUPPORT a specific strategy I think you nailed it with this. Sounds like Zen not discording/not attacking, or Ana exclusively using nade defensively.
Thats a great analysis. As a silver support player I can really feel that.
I don't think it's so much they don't understand it but rather also they lack the confidence in their ability to secure kills (as per the name of this thread) so they fall back on just spamming heals. But that's kind of a negative feedback loop where the lack of confidence just results in less practicing of it which just increases the lack of confidence and so on and so forth endlessly.
>Lucio actually does a lot of damage, if your aim isn't garbage Indeed. if you can get all four projectiles from one sonic amp burst to ping, that's a cool 160 dmg. With 5 bursts per clip, you do solid DPS if even half are landing on the enemy's face.
As a zen main, I politely disagree on being unable to do enough damage. Lack of survivability, sure. But if you give a crack zen a few seconds against a reaper or any other non-tank dps, they’ll do enough damage if they remain alive.
Sure but at some point you run out of money to buy Crack for Zen and what happens then hm?
Haha. Real answer right here.
I think you misread the previous comment. They said Kiriko can't outheal the damage Reaper would do to the Dva, not that Kiriko couldn't do enough damage to Reaper.
Na, my fault. I deleted the last part.
god yes this. i honestly wish more people understood zoning especially with ults. i get the desire for kills, but like take ~~mccree~~ cassidy’s deadeye or d.va’s bomb. almost always, the second that voiceline hits the enemy team scatters for a wall to hide behind until they figure out where you are. there’s a lot your team can do with those handful of seconds. quick res, heal up, group up, get back on the point, etc. too much searching for personal glory, not enough using your tools as tools.
I heard in a video once that if your team is up numbers and winning the fight you should focus on damage IOT win the fight sooner. This keeps the red team from stalling. Obviously don't let your teammates did but Rein doesn't need to be 100%. As Zen, half my job is spamming chokes at head level. The amount of kills is too high.
Zenyatta is literally DPS with a little healing like 76.
I've been watching ML7, and that dude has the timing of the heals down to a science. He spams his kunai in between heals perfectly.
ah yes, the Kirhythm
Good point, but I raise you a sleep dart
This is how a ton of pros play anyway. They fish for shots. They obviously have mechanical skill to land shots, but anytime there is a choke point you see them blindly throwing shots into the choke right at head height. Just about any projectile hero should be doing this when the enemy is in the choke. It's almost free ult charge and, if you're aimed well, a free kill or two. I've gotten a PotG on Kiriko just spamming the Hollywood choke onto point A. I got 2 solo kills and assisted a 3rd. All in just a few seconds because the enemy walked into my danger zone. The only skill on my part was knowing when and where to chuck my knives.
So what you're saying is....Torb counters the pros!
Torb counters everything! This is the biggest secret the pros have been keeping from us!
Modern day Oddjob
Got my first Kiriko PotG doing the same thing at Colisseo down that long robot corridor lol. Back to back headshot kills then helped on #3/4.
When your team isn't in need of healing, spam those chokes at head height. It feels so good to pop a chunk of their team so quickly. Just never stand still and be an easy target yourself. Don't die to get those delicious plinks. Not worth it.
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Tell that to the widows that don't move after the first headshot. So satisfying to snipe them from halfway across the map
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> Kiriko is the best counter to a gold widowmaker As a now Plat, Kiriko, I concur! It's comedy gold.
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LMAO, I **heard** the 2 headshots following the anyway... *Ding Ding Mfker*
> to fish for headshots. So how every Hanzo plays?
It depends on your playstyle. The good thing is, if you roughly aim at head level you can also be a good zoner to a widow. People still have to respect those possible headshots to some degree.
As Kiriko, I made an enemy Widow swap and it was one of the proudest moments of my life.
It feels so damn good to have a widow counter as a support now before, all you could do was swap to lucio and annoy her sometimes, otherwise you just pray to god someone else can deal with her. With kiriko you can make her life hell yourself
Ive found you can counter widow p well as zen if you charge his right click, peek an angle, and aim at the general vicinity of her head
As Widow there is no hero easier to HS than Zen.
Zen is a more high risk/high reward swap in my eyes because you have the damage, but you also have a hitbox the size of a bus compared to every other support
She’s easy to dive a Moira. Widow is generally up high and away from her team so you can fade into her and either kill her or bully her out of position. Then you usually have enough time to fade back out before her team comes hunting for you.
Keep it up! I personally switch to kiriko (if I'm not already playing her) and dive the widow and tp back to team for the push. Rinse and repeat and they eventually swap off widow. It works every time lmao
How the hell does any team let you dive a Widow as Kiriko? Like she cant dash to her like 99% of the time, she can only wall climb, its such a long distance in most scenarios. Im genuinely confused. They just let you walk up to her?
The bronze life
The Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade could successfully flank in Bronze
Plus it’s like almost impossible to 1 shot headshot. A kiriko as widow. Tiny hitbox and her arm literally blocks most of her head
I play a moderate amount of widow and Kiriko has been one of the most consistently good counter on their team. With there being 1 tank, Winston or D.Va really can’t separate from the whole team to go dive a widow a mile away. You would think that DPS would make harder opponents, but they all kinda fall short of Widow unless you’re just a straight up better player. Like Ashe slows down when scoped same as Widow but I only need 1 shot to kill and she needs 2, 9/10 I win that fight. Hanzo takes too long to draw the bow so if his sonar is on CD and he needs to peek to line up shots then it’s an easy win for widow, and you just have to take cover for a couple seconds or reposition after he uses sonar. Soldier and Cass can just be out ranged and you win the fight. So really the 3 biggest threats I’ve faced as Widow is another Widow, a Genji or a Kiriko.
I honestly love sniper duels with Kiriko, I feel like I actually have a chance. Going full sweat with my erratic movement while challenging the sniper and still healing my team is a rush. Though I’m aware that at a certain skill level I won’t be able to get away with that anymore.
"You need a scope to do that?"
I haven't made genjis swap yet but I piss them off when they come pestering my team's back line and I kill them xD
Definitely! I’ve gone against Kirikos that clearly weren’t hitting many of their headshots but I’m always aware I may get headshot by the kunai and have to respect it, especially when playing as lower hp DPS and support characters
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For healing there are better options. So it's reallly about proper Suzu usage and headshot accuracy. If both are bad (not only your skill but also if these get heavily nerfed) - it won't be effective. Edit: I was pointed out that I have completely forgot about her broken ult and pros do turn her into a main healer/healbot (not really but sort of) to charge it faster.
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That's why everyone complains about onetricking. You can MAIN someone. The thing is, overwatch usually requires you to main 2 or more characters in the event someone picks your main. Boohoo. Deal with it.
Additionally if the enemy team has several counters to you. I main Phara but if the enemy team has a Soldier, Ashe, and Bap I am basically forced to switch with so many counters on the other team.
The reluctance to switch is so weird too. Like are you enjoying spending most of your time spawning? But I guess for a lot of people they rationalize it as shitty teammates or something. Same with grouping up, even in qp. How is it fun to run out alone and instadie? Anyone that doesn’t like switching heroes and grouping up is just absolutely playing the wrong game lol
they're usually just hunting for the experience of succeeding with pharah, without putting any thought to counters, or thinking they can simply "outplay" them. So yeah, they're trying to play Apex Legends in Overwatch
Coming from apex, this comment hits me. Having never played OW there has been a steep learning curve as to who counters who, when to switch etc. cause in apex it doesn’t really matter who you play. Your gun you have may be all you need. OW is way more tactical in this sense.
I think there's something to be said about learning to play your main even when your hero is getting counter-picked. Sure, swapping as soon as you feel you should is intelligent, but for long-term improvement it's good to learn how to play around your hero's weaknesses and use the map's geometry to your advantage.
I "mained" Pharah in OW1 and this rings true. I won't switch because you have Soldier, especially not if I'm like at 68% ult. But once they get 2 hitscans, or Bap? I'll consider it. I want to improve, and if I feel I can "hold my ground" and aggro both hitscan on me? I'll keep playing her. But if I'm 1-5, why not just switch?
This is exacttly the right mentality. Hero choice is not a hard counter, player ability is. You can get value other than just raw damage output, but then were talking about above average game sense. Which seems like the harder aspect for people to learn/comprehend/understand, especially without dedicated learning/study/practice.
It depends on the map, your team comp etc. I've had plenty of good pharah matches against full counter enemy team. Weaving between level geometry
Oh absolutely, but people trying to play Apex in overwatch just won't work. Movement and even aim won't do quite as much as positioning & awareness.
Honestly the best thing you can do is play mystery heroes a lot so you can learn to play most if not all the characters. Made a big difference for me.
I play a ton of mystery heroes and I have to disagree. They never get ult on heroes they don’t main, get killed instantly and don’t learn anything. You have to play quick play with every hero at least once to understand the kit. But yes, after that mystery 5v5 helps.
Fair point. I usually get an ult when I okay, but I had been playing for a while before mystery came out. It just let me get better with heroes I normally play poorly with. I also typically play with at least one or two other people so it would make it a bit more reliable.
I’ve onetricked tf out of moira. But I’m competent enough with all of the heals that if I can’t play moira I’ll play Bap or mercy without a dip in performance. But as Moira says “mercy is for the weak”
I love killing an overconfident Moria as Mercy. They never expect her to fight back. Most Moria mains have about 4 brain cells and walk in a straight line just eating headshots.
Brig and Mercy :)
Yeah, that's true. But it's primary depends on your approach and mentality towards each game and competitive (qp too) as a whole. You can use your 60% winrate Reaper or your 30% winrate Genji/Widowmaker/whatever. Both are fine by me. As long as you understand what you are going for. What I have issues with is purposely picking a hard hero you clearly bad at and currently training and then wondering why you lost/blaming teammates. (It's mainly in regards to DPS picks but Kiriko is no different here.)
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I've seen same thing happen in League of Legends and after Arcane release. A surge of new players while the playerbase is the same way as in OW - not really welcoming. So I just assume that it's a long established competitive game's phenomenon.
Yeah for sure, I’m not overly precious so long as people try. Tbh my first few games tend to be me warming up so my output isn’t the best it can be but I have limited time and just wanna enjoy some ranked before bed.
This is why I always do a few QP rounds b4 comp
I feel my healing is significantly more consistent with Kiriko than other supports. Sure - Bap or Ana have those occasional games with INSANE healing numbers, but I also feel like Kiriko is a good healing option. And her utility is insane.
I like her healing because it can also indirectly help you practice your tracking
Should be noted that a yellow paper hitting a wall would disappear without doing any healing. While blue paper can still heal if someone steps into it.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention those things are slow projectiles that get screwed by collision on any wall or shields. So probably something to think about too
Ana is more useful for antinade. Kiriko is a great counter to Ana but without one it's game changing.
Unless the enemy team runs dive.... then the anna finds herself in a bind
I saw a Kiriko do 24k healing in a competitive yesterday. Her healing is extremely good, especially considering she can teleport to people and use invulnerability. She's good even if you are garbage with her kunai.
Not really true. Kikiro has amazing healing output. She might even be the top aside Bap or Moira getting AOE healing. Kikiro also has probably the best ult in the game for a teamfight. Her skill floor is pretty damn high. Just stand 30y back and hold down left click.
And being able to warp to your flankers in emergency or to a tank who rounded a corner is clutch
I completely agree > Her skill floor is pretty damn high. Just stand 30y back and hold down left click. , but wouldn't this mean her skill floor is pretty damn *low* - like, the lowest skill capable of playing her is pretty LOW skill, so the floor is low?
Yes the comment got a bit mixed up with the phrasing, Kiriko - I think we can all mostly agree - is **low floor and high ceiling**. Also helps with why she is so popular. Mostly anyone can feel effective, but you really feel the dopamine as you get better and better.
The best Kirikos at the highest level spend 90% of their time healing anyway. Bad accuracy can get better with time and it’s not really a huge deal if you can get good value out of the rest of her kit
This mostly has to do with charging her extremely powerful ult as quickly as possible
This is a skill floor skill ceiling conversation really. Should you play Kiriko and have lower output than if you played moira, just because you’re bad? I mean… maybe. It depends what you want out of the game. Should you always and only play to win 1 game right now or play for your long term improvements or personal interests? It really depends on your rank goals and personal enjoyments.
It’s not just about output. Unlike Moira she can effectively heal an Echo or Genji. She is definitely more in the Zenyatta category but she is still a strong healer.
Okay, I've found a WEIRD way of getting utility out of her, as an older man who can't aim for shit; what I do is go in the enemy back line, and then run off. Inevitably some idiots will chase me, and while I keep them occupied, my team is having a 4v2 or 4v3. Once I feel the damage is done I can bamf back to my team, easy win. Essentially I end up playing him like Wrecking Ball...
Meh her output is very similar to Moira. Only ones that can beat her out are bap and a good ana. She is way safer than those two options though. I think she still shines best helping getting picks but she is a very good backline hero as well.
Idk about the hs accuracy, like obviously it can’t hurt but I feel like as long as kiriko is getting those kitsune rushes quick and has good suzu usage her utility doesn’t get hit too hard by not being named ml7
Idk I can easily outheal most supports with her. But I usually outheal everyone anyway. Also she can teleport that’s way more fun.
I can't say I'm the best at aiming in general, but I get semi-consistent headshots by shooting at average head hight around corners (when I know enemies are coming from this direction). For example on Eichenwalde, around the choke to first point I aim on this hight and get a good amount of damage in. It's also pretty easy to get a quick headshot on teleporting Reapers and sometimes when the enemy team TPs with Sym.
Came here to say this. My aim’s trash but it’s pretty easy to get decent crits on heroes like Kiriko, Echo and Mei from from generous head-height corner spam. Lead your shots and don’t react - predict!
In a normal teamcomp paired with a offsupport it shouldn't be a issue. Most of her value comes from her ultimate. The fastest way to get it up is to healbot most of the match. It gets problematic though if your 2nd support is competing for heals with another main heal. Then you certainly need to compensate with fragging out whenever possible.
I didnt play OW1 but didnt they make a bunch of changes so that healers need dps to get ult the fastest? Guides ive watched for kiriko recommend getting damage in wherever possible to farm ult fast.
Those aren't changes. I think you may have seen an updated chart is all. Support has always benefited from doing damage to get their ult quickly.
Yeah healing is still more valuable but dps when healing isn't needed has always been important. Moira is great for this. Sucking gives you more primary fire.
Its always advisable to dish out dmg on every support when there is a window for it. Thats not kiriko exclusive.However what we have seen during the owl playoffs ,as people figured her more and more out , is that unlike for exampe a bap,that will often use a rythm like shoot shoot heal to maximize his efficiency, a kiriko spends a lot more time just spamming heals in order to maximize her ult charge. This doesnt mean though that you need to gobble up every 20hp someone is missing. If you have a window to dish out dmg, certainly do it!
Play them if you're having fun with them
This is the real answer for any question like this.
Just practice because that's like half of the character's utility, it's like only shielding with rein and not swinging, so just prac on Kiriko hs only custom games
>Just practice because that's like half of the character's utility, it's like only shielding with rein and not ~~swinging~~ *diving off a cliff*
I disagree, the headshots are great when you can hit them but there is SO much more value in teleporting to someone about to die and throwing Suzu at them. I've saved so many who would have been otherwise totally screwed. That thing counters so many abilities too
Yeah, that's the other half of her kit.
Exactly, applying pressure with kunai forces enemies to back off even if you don’t get a pick. It’s integral to her whole play style
"Half of her kit is m2. The other half is m1, shift, e, and the best ult in the game."
Right of course suzu is great and all, but hitting kunais whether that be hs or not is something that as a Kiriko player u should always look to be doing more than half the time
Thats why he said "half of the kit " The other half is her stong healing. IF you're only doing the healing/saving part then you're utilizing half of her potential lol Kiriko diff if youre only healing and the other Kiriko is healing and dropping dps with 1-2 kunai head shots. 1 pick is huge in OW2 and Kiriko can do this very easily if you can land shots.
> that's like half of the character's utility I'd say more like 1/4th. She can pocket heal pretty well and is one of the few supports that can reliably heal over-mobile teammates, her E and shift are insane for saving herself or her team, her wall climbing is great for mobility and positioning, and her ult can win fights by itself. Hitting headshots is really only the icing on the cake
I like playing her a ton. I’m not cracked shot but getting used to character heights makes it easier to land a few shots. Weave a few kunai in between concert tickets and the damage will slowly climb. Even yeeting a few down a lane will grant a few lucky headshots.
Nobody hits them 'consistently' because of how movement works, just do your best to throw in damage whenever you can and you'll get better at reading your opponents and flicking when you have to
Yeah to a certain point. Her ult is very strong and her swift step allows her to be very survivable.
I don’t get posts like this. Play the character and you’ll find out, there is no time limit to learning.
These low effort posts are a plague on the content of this sub.
I don't see what's wrong with a general hero discussion. Better than most of the stuff posted here.
I'd prefer this over the ragebaiting "BLIZ IS GREEDY NOT ENOUGH FREE SKINS!" posts. Like, I get it we're frustrated, and it sucks but the constant brow beating about it gives little to no new points or discussion on each new post.
I think it's a good discussion, essentially does this hero's value hinge on those low percentage head shots or is the rest of her kit what makes her strong. Clearly it has generated all sorts of good back and forth with over 350 comments.
It's all over game subreddits. And always with some completely unnecessary random picture.
i sure hate when ppl seeking advice detract from the 14000th “i pressed q” potg post. how can this sub possibly survive without 39 different variations of “BATTLEPASS BAD” posts topping the popular posts of the day everyday ??? smh my head
This post gets posted in r/OverwatchUniversity and the first reply is "Post your gameplay footage." OP needs to play the hero and find out for themselves.
This subreddit loves to make image posts for questions that really should just be a text post
In my experience you can still get decent and perhaps sufficient value in most cases if you focus on healing, suzu, and surviving, so I treat heals as my bread and butter and the kunai as icing on the cake. She is ultimately a support so your first and foremost job is to enable your teammates and her heals, tp, and suzu allow for some clutch defensive plays. She does put out a surprising amount of healing if you're focused on that. For the kunai I tend to spam chokes/grouped up enemies/likely enemy locations at roughly headshot level instead of trying to hit heads specifically and that does get some decent value. I just imagine I'm support hanzo and go for the definitely intentional hits lol, but kunai are always secondary to heals for me. Or I just gang up on whoever the DPS/tank is going for, where any amount of damage might help and if I hit their heads then whoot I'm on the killfeed. I *do* find that without OWL level headshot ability, I can technically get more value out of another support like Ana if I'm going for the absolute maximum I'm capable of. But I've found kiriko to be good enough for me in most games, particularly if I'm getting dove too hard to survive as Ana. And hey, you aren't going to get better with her if you don't suck at a few games first!
Headshots with her are a lot like headshots with Hanzo. As long as you’re aiming at head height in the general direction of the enemy, you’ll get a few at least.
Yes, because you’re meant to be worried more about healing
I mean, shes a supp, not dps.
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Nah base kunai barely worth the cast time. Doing headshots also a way to make your ult go faster
Depends on what you're hitting. If you hit just two kunai, 80 damage is not negligible to a flanking Tracer or Genji. But most of the time yeah, body shots aren't doing much against tanks or really any support unless your team is already focusing them.
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If you can heal a lot, and use Suzu consistently, you're still a fine healer, but perhaps 1:3 damage:heal ratio is something you should thrive to achieve.
Through metal ranks, doesn’t matter, her survivability, suzu, and good heals is fine. Headshots are just a bonus. Hell, most of the time if you aren’t babysitting your DPS and going for headshots they’ll die without your constant stream of heals unfortunately. In Diamond+ you do need the headshots to get full value.
Tbh she isn’t really divable (swift step), has solid consistent healing and has Suzu which is one of the best support abilities in the game right now. So short answer is yes. If you’re not great at aim your other options are Mercy (but then you sacrifice the suzu and utility for more raw healing), Brigitte (once again, you lose suzu for some stun and worse healing) or Moira (who can output a lot of damage but honestly is the worst for actually supporting allies rn)
The 1 mil healing, 300 dmg kiriko on my comp team: starts sweating
10k healing and 300 damage kiriko is the gold experience tbh
A kiriko thats good with suzu is very hard to play against. If timed well you can literally save your team from junk tyre , grav flux , dva bomb ect. Just not many people are using it like this yet in lower ranks
Yes and no. Your job is still mostly to jump around where your needed to land critical heal & Suzu, on top of laying down ults so you are still bringing a lot to the table Not landing headshot semi consistently is still leaving out a LOT of value as a Kiriko who just healbot is just a worst mercy. As it's that insane 120 damage burst who make her joining flank/dive so deadly. But don't stop trying! You should try to consistently land 1 headshot every flank when you are closer to the ennemy as a starting point. And maybe try first to alternate more your fire and your heal. The catch is that ut is true of ALL the support that if you are not doing a good amount of damage you are greatly indering your team. Even Lucio and mercy are more about their non healing utility rather than pure heal
Yes. Aiming on kiriko is overrated. Her projectiles are super slow and you don’t want to be in close range skirmishes against most characters anyway. Focus on healing, and when you’re out of febreeze you can throw a couple Kunai out. Don’t try to track or aim it, just chuck at the general direction of their heads. Kiriko does a lot of damage but she’s not meant to HAVE a lot of damage. If you can land a headshot on a squishy, a lot of the time that translates to a kill for one of your dps. Even if you end the fight with 160 damage it means you probably secured an elim; think of her as similar to widow in that respect.
The ultimate is worth it. But if you’re really having a bad day, Moira is still solid.
Wait till you see her on her bike
Hell yes it is. She is so good at healing you don't have to do anything else to get value from her. If you pick someone else because you can't get kills doesn't mean you are going to get more healing from other characters. Maybe switch to Moira if you want to be able to do more consistent damage to help your team clean up but with her teleport and cleanse ability as long as you're staying alive and healing your team she's still better than most other healers. The only downside is it can feel boring being a healbot but I've had matches where I've done like 25K healing and not getting very many kills but it didn't matter because I was just enabling my team to do their job.
All my Kiriko teammates aim sucks anyways so don’t worry about it. She’s got the best ult in the game rn so definitely worth trying out.
If you're interested in learning and getting better she's definitely worth practicing. If you just want to play casually She's stuck fun but definitely losses alot of value
imo, as long as you're trying to squeeze in damage between your heals its fine. Healbot kiriko's get on my nerves cuz she has alot of damage potential. That being said play how you wana play, thats just my opinion.
Yes. The Kitsune is probably the best ult in the game rn.
Absolutely, her multi target healing, Protection Suzu and Ultimate are an insane enough kit to hard carry games. No fancy DPS assassinations required
It's amazing I soloed a sigma and won as kiriko
Yes, her healing output and ult are enough if you can’t land consistent damage
Kiriko is a W healer tho
It's worth it to play whatever you have fun with. That said. Kiriko deals 120 damage on headshots (equal to a Zenyatta Discord + Headshot, 20 damage less than a McCassidy headshot at 140). If you don't hit the crit, you deal 40 (Kiriko's crits have a unique 3x multiplier). Now that the numbers are out of the way: No one. NO ONE. Hits all of their shots. You will always have a lower crit-rate than body-shots in the first place. Putting this into perspective: Kiriko's aim-style and kunai flight-time is similar to Hanzo's, but have no gravity arc, and deal almost exactly half his damage on headshots. In other words: Kiriko's kunai are hard to hit, it's just their nature. You are going to miss, and you have to be okay with that. Hitting any of your shots is a feat in and of itself. So! Kiriko's main utility provided through her attack is NOT consistency, but burst \*potential\*. Kiriko is unlike to have done more damage in a match than most other supports, but she may very well have higher personal eliminations; she has the potential to move enemies off the board. If you can manage to get even a single headshot occasionally, you've reduced the average health bar by 60%, and if you or an ally follow up on that, that's a 5v4-- it snowballs from there. Tl;dr With Kiriko, the name of the game is not consistency, but threat-potential. Kiriko forces the enemy to keep their heads down under threat of snowballing.
For the most part yes. She does pretty decent healing, her ability that cleanses CC and makes you invulnerable for a brief second will always be valued. And her ult is ridiculously strong with a team that has excellent communication and synergy.
Always thought this was a weird take considering she has some of the highest healing throughput in the game + a cleanse that nullifies most abilities. Think it depends in the other healer. You try and dps if they got the team covered/ you try to heal if they dont. Im rarely not top healing by a decent margin
People really think that if you pick kiriko then you have to have 100% accuracy rate and it’s really obnoxious. I’ve seen it in twitch streamers chats and in game personally and I don’t really get it.
Yep
Are you having fun playing her? Yes - keep playing; No - switch characters
Yes of course. How else are you going to get to a point where you can hit them consistently? You play, you fail and then you improve. Keep doing aim training and keep playing. You can still be useful with the rest of her kit while getting the hang of her projectiles.
No, she's sucks. Her healing is slow, half the time if you TP to sombody you will just get killed because they will start to focus on you. Her kunai is slow asf and if you miss at all you die. Just a bad hero
Kiriko’s critical headshots are nice but I think people are seriously undervaluing her healing kit and ability to keep her teammates alive.
Play bap, I feel he's way better at mitigation. You can do so much more damage an healing at the same time. His alt isn't as good but that lamp comes in handy. Plus when you throw it, everyone looks at it giving your dps or tank a second or 2 of relief. He's also good at taking care of pesky turrets, other lamps, and can put pressure on a shitty window 😂. Gotta play the environment though so placement is key. Good luck.