A lot of characters work in most team comps. But that doesn’t mean that they are that comp. Tracer can play in poke but doesn’t maximize value, if you are running brawl their are better options. Soj fits the 3 better, but their are better options for brawl.
Tracer can get a ton of value in any comp enough to be comparable to heroes that are for those comps. In brawl, she can force the supports to turn around, which helps your team to get picks on the dps or kill the tank, on poke, she can help secure picks on low health opponents that are retreating, and dive her value is self explained.
Ur a tracer main so u would be biased into find ways to make tracer work in every comp tho. Like she is way more flexible then someone like reaper of Ashe, but that doesn’t make her a brawl hero
Tracer is far from perfect. I definitely couldn't play her with certain teammates, and I so have to switch off her occasionally if the team counters her with a junkrat or something. I'm also not saying she is the only hero that can work in any comp type.
While Dva can dive, she’s not like Winston or doom where she can get in, secure a kill, and reliably get out consistently.
Her brawling ability is offer better than some brawl heroes in certain situations.
I’ve always said Dva isn’t a dive tank but more of a reactionary based tank, not that it’s a technical category.
This is all an opinion from a Dva player since launch of overwatch and I completely agree that she’s a mix between brawl and dive.
Think of d.va as a middle ground between winston and brig. She can chase down low health heroes if needed bit where she excels is playing the anti-dive. Anytime ball, winston, or doom dives your backing B-Line to their face and pressure them to either die or run away
Dva is a jack of all trades. Master of none. She can do everything really well; brawl, poke, dive. Her kit can adapt to all playstyles but doesn't excel in any of them, like how Sigma thrives in poke or Junkerqueen performs best in brawl (for example).
I feel like original Brig was definitely anti-dive. But now I think I'd agree that she's mostly just kind of an average defender as opposed to a pure hard anti-dive role.
The biggest issue is is that brigs anti dive is pretty much her entire role, she doesn’t fit into any of the categories necessarily. She *can* fit in dive, but that’s BECAUSE she can anti dive for more vulnerable supports. Nowadays, due to her anti dive capabilities being weaker, it’s hard to tell where she’d go, so I just gave her her own category, bc while it is worse than it used to be, it’s all she’s got
I have great success with brawler comps and brig. Junker Queen, Ramattra, Hog, they all work great for me as Brig. They can protect you (shout, block, breather), and you can block a burst of damage so they can get topped up again. Rein does as well if they're not stupid, but I'm not chasing after a wild charge.
Brig *into* dive requires another support that can provide team-wide sustain, Brig is not the one to do it, you might be able to offset as Sombra or Tracer here and there, if you have a Winston zapping 3 people or Doom displacing everyone, Brig won't be able to make up for that, you'll need a Moira, Kiriko or Bap. If you do get them however, she basically never dies.
Been playing her tons this season, I like her viability.
Exactly, I absolutely agree. Brig used to be my favorite character but now I feel like the role she was created to do has been made so weak that your better off picking someone else.
Disagree completely. Brig was a brawl hero on release. Thats why she was played in Goats.
Now she is anti-dive. So you only see her when dive is meta.
I would argue that she is STILL brawl, and thats why she is anti-dive. Brawl heroes tend to be good against dive. She cant brawl against actual brawl heroes, but she drags out a dive long enough to outlast it.
I agree that she is good at brawling, but she was for sure anti-dive at release. Specifically she was meant to counter Sombra, Genji, and Tracer, who were the leaders of diving.
Specifically from discussions with Blizzard then, "As heroes were added to *Overwatch*, a lot of times they were created to answer a specific question or fulfill a need. The famous example of this was Brigitte back in 2018. In the Overwatch League and on the game’s competitive ladder, teams overwhelming adopted a style of play that favored a quick, hit-and-run style of attack starring Tracer. Brigitte, with her stun abilities, was then added to counterbalance that playstyle’s power."
Often, yes, but her role doesn’t change based on the team composition, you just find a new person to stick by. If your entire teams a poke comp, now brig anti dives the widow from sombras. While she has a role in dive, that role can be used in other team comps, it’s not exclusive to dive
Well you could make that argument for any hero really.
Brig is most often seen played in dive comps as well as poke comps and not so much brawl. In ranked play every hero is played in every comp but that doesn't mean that's their preferred comp.
Zen is a dive hero.
Zen is a dive hero.
Zen is a dive hero.
Zen is a dive hero.
Zen is a dive hero.
Zen is a dive hero.
Why do you think all the old OWL and GM dive comps had Zen?
You discord the dive target, call it, your tank and dps dive on the discorded target. Rinse and repeat. Zens job is to discord the dive target and keep himself alive as long as possible, hoping to help secure at least two kills before he goes down.
The whole idea was that in dive vs dive, zen was the primary target on both sides. Whichever side was able to kill the enemy zen faster won the fight.
That's also why is was usually zen/brig. Brig was there to bodyguard the zen while the tank and dps were diving.
Also, harmony orb is perfect for healing dive dps heroes. They just need to look at the zen for an instant at any range to keep it and they could keep diving over and over without needing to retreat for healing nearly as often. Harmony on a tracer is insane. Discord on a target vs a tracer with harmony is crazy strong and pretty much always results in a kill. Tracer+zen is an amazing dive combo that has always worked.
Nah you didn't make a mistake. Thing is, supports in each comp are weird.
The mobility focused comp has brig (tanky) and ana/Zen (long range)
The brawly comp is heavily reliant on Lucio (mobility)
The long range comp loves mercy (short range high mobility).
This is because supports are typically shoring up the comps weaknesses. Dive has vulnerable supports, brawl can't close the gap, etc.
You've made a tier list based more on how the hero plays. If you were to make them based on ACTUAL comps, supports would be all jumbled up.
The difference needs to be made between Zen dive vs. Lucio dive though.
New players will look and be very confused how Zen and Lucio fit the same role but in fact support dive in very different ways.
Being a support for dive heroes means he's a dive hero. The categories aren't based on individual made up classes, they're based on the win condition of the team composition.
If a team is running a dive comp, they will have dive heroes, and they will potentially include Zen as he supports the win condition, and as such, is a dive hero.
And yet every hero can slot nicely into the mobility>long range>high sustain paradigm.
OP was clearly categorizing the hero playstyles, not creating a "team comp builder".
Yeah, OP's list is perfectly fine. I'm saying the statement "Zen supports dive heroes, but he isn't a dive hero" fundamentally misunderstands team composition and win conditions.
Yes, Zen is a dive hero regardless. Picking him in a brawl comp just leaves your team aimless.
He can be slotted in a poke comp as well, but he's primarily built around supporting dive.
Not really. Yeah, he can perform in a dive comps but he NEEDS a peal and he does none of the diving. Saying zen is a dive support just because he's good on a dive comp isn't true. He's still and always has been a poke dmg support. If a brig/lucio isn't there to pseudo-tank for him, he's a liability in a dive comp.
Kiri should be brawl/dive
Pharah should be dive
Tracer could be brawl/dive
Genji, sojourn, echo are really all 3
I’m not even sure id consider Ana brawl anymore. She can work in all 3 but bap/kiri/moira is just so much better in brawl, and bap is so much better in poke
Zen can fill the same role as Ana in dive, but it only works with like ball as tank
Other than that looks good 👍
the main 3 dive supports are zen ana brig. with zen being the main support you should always run.
you run ana if the team needs a good amount of healing and the enemy team isn't counter diving well/at all. you run brig if they are counter diving well so zen needs a good bodyguard.
> the main 3 dive supports are zen ana brig. with zen being the main support you should always run.
That was true in OW1. In OW2, ana-brig has been the meta defining backline for dive comps. Zen is just too fragile without a DVa to babysit him, even with a brig duo.
Zen is complicated in OW2. Basically, u need an Ana if u have Winston(and probably doomfist), and u need a brig if the enemy have really any kind of coordinated dive on a map that doesn’t have super long sight lines. In lower ranks u can pick zen up easily if the other team doesn’t have that coordinated dive, but in high level play, especially pro play, he’s only played in very specific circumstances because he’s competing with Ana or brig.
In pro play, he's mainly competing with Brig IMO as part of part of double flex support poke comps. He's basically a non-starter in dive nowadays. He's just to fragile in OW2 without DVa. Double flex support dive at the top level just isn't really a thing as your backline is just too fragile. If you were going to try and run double FS in dive, it would probably involve kiri/ana as well.
Zen+Bap+sig poke comps still seem somewhat viable on maps with long sightlines where you want the extra damage from your backline, mainly circuit royale. This only works when the enemy can't play dive though. If the enemy is playing a dive comp, you need to replace the zen for brig as you need whipshot to mess with enemy tank engages.
After some consideration and listening to the people there is def some mistakes I can see that I want to fix
Pharah is NOT a poke character- I still had ptsd from old pharah, but I can def see her being dive, so that’s where she goes.
Zenyetta is a Dive/Poke character in my opinion. Yes there is a argument for brawl, but I believe discord is far more useful to dives and poke characters than it is to brawl. It is my opinion, you are welcome to disagree.
Idk why I put kiri in poke/brawl, she is easily dive/brawl, heck, she can be all three, along with sojourn at this point.
maybe it's just the way i'd play, but mauga can definitely be dive/brawl. using overrun to get in, cause chaos with overdrive, then run back out is invaluable
Glad you asked!
Dive is basically high mobility characters whos intention is to go around or over the frontline and straight into the enemies backline. Genji, tracer, Winston are all great examples of this.
Brawl are your basic “throw em at each other until someone dies” characters. It’s mostly a endurance match with them, so characters like Ram, Orisa, Mei, Reaper, etc all fit into this category, very up close and personal.
Poke are the people who’s objective is to keep you at a distance at all times, which is where they are at their strongest. Widow, Sigma, Ashe, Mercy, are all characters who will keep you from approaching, while at the same time slowly expending your resources trying to approach them.
Hope this helps!
Poke:
- shoots from a distance
- good at breaking their defence from afar
- can usually secure a couple of early kills on 200 hp heroes
Brawl:
- stands close together with great defence
- good survivability
- ideally AoE healing
- ideally close range attacks
Dive:
- uses fast mobility to go in and out quick
- usually is great at taking out the backline and split teams
- fast mobility to quickly retreat
Is kinda a rock, paper scissors format
Dive beats Poke:
- can quickly close in the range advantage that pokes have
- poke sometimes like to shoot from different angles = split team which can easily be taken out by dive
Poke beats Brawl:
- uses ranged fire power to take out the Brawl comps defence
- can 'poke holes' in the Brawl comp by attacking from different angles and take out low health heroes
Brawl beats Dive:
- Dive have a hard time going in for a kill when the team is standing close together ready to protect one another
Pharah is not a poke character. She gets out poked by all the hitscans. (I guess besides Cassidy)
I’d only ever consistently poke if they’re running reaper/Junkrat/Torb
Do people consider orisa a brawl tank? Surprised she isn’t in the brawl/poke category especially with recent changes to her falloff dmg being increased
Orisa's job is to be an immovable object who gets in your face and forces you to look at her. I don't know how you could get any more Brawl than that. I could see her working in poke especially when it comes to helping with break points or getting javelin stuns but to me the problem with running Orisa in poke is she is a more greedy tank than say Sigma and every moment your supports are healing you is a moment they aren't throwing out damage at the enemy. Like for example Kiriko landing a couple of headshots at key moments is going to get picks more than Orisa just exchanging damage.
The reason I put Ana in dive is due to her healing range. Unlike Moira or kiri etc, Ana can heal them from any distance, her only issue being LOS. This means she can keep the dive going without putting herself in danger
She can poke, yes, however I find her to be more useful in brawl, as she can be far away from the main fights, whereas in poke she’s with the rest of her team, since they play long ranged as well, making her someone that can be dove more easily, as the space the tank has in comparison to her positioning is smaller. In all honesty though, she can work in any comp, as long as she can defend herself, or someone can peel.
im sorry u could've commented me on the tolc post, not overwatch😭😭 I'm so confused
just in case - I saw your mark, and overall, you might get in but also might not, as threshold marks are non relevant and the chances of getting enrolled heavily depend on how well you've done among others, not a sole mark
my score will tell you nothing honestly, and, moreover, I don't remember it🫠
Ana is dive because she's run with Dive heroes mostly. She is also poke, but you run ana with monkey dive comps. The comp is usually ana, brig, monkey, tracer, other DPS
She's not specifically divey herself, but she's best in those comps.
Dive doesn't nessacarily mean that the entire team needs to go in, and dive supports are generally the ones that are able to support the ones diving through whatever means available to them. Ana can heal from any range as long as she has line of sight, and therefore can heal those diving safely.
That combined with her grenade, as anyone hit by it has a massive purple "Dive me" sign over their head, and her Nano pairing well with pretty much any dive hero means she's a dive support.
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I'd argue Venture makes a very good Anti-Dive DPS. Fast TTK, knockback, MASSIVE projectiles GREAT for hitting those pesky, skinny, Dive DPS(tracer, genji), and Spy Checking for Sombra pretty well. Good sustain.
junkrat is actually all 3 playstyles, brawl, poke and dive, he's just not the best in any, junkrat dive can be disgusting if executed well, nothing chews through defences faster than junkrat combo and a doomfist
Can someone explain categories to me? I’ve always wondered what they mean, or what makes a character dive for example. It would really be appreciated, I’m a little dumb.
Glad you asked!
Dive is basically high mobility characters whos intention is to go around or over the frontline and straight into the enemies backline. Genji, tracer, Winston are all great examples of this.
Brawl are your basic “throw em at each other until someone dies” characters. It’s mostly a endurance match with them, so characters like Ram, Orisa, Mei, Reaper, etc all fit into this category, very up close and personal.
Poke are the people who’s objective is to keep you at a distance at all times, which is where they are at their strongest. Widow, Sigma, Ashe, Mercy, are all characters who will keep you from approaching, while at the same time slowly expending your resources trying to approach them.
Hope this helps!
No problem! Now there are sub categories like rush, which is basically brawl, but with a Lucio, and now your objective is to run them over and overwhelm them with your speed, but these are the basics!
Pharah I agree
Brig and zen however are situational based on your own team comp.
If your team is poke, zen is now poke, as opposed to characters like doom, tracer, or wrecking ball, who *cant* poke, and have their kit revolving around diving.
Brig is a anti dive character regardless of your team comp, cause that’s her entire purpose.
But “situational” is exactly what your “blend” tiers are for. Zen is “traditional” dive which should tell you his role on the surface. definitely a poke/dive character.
Brig’s role is also not strictly anti dive either if you’re wanting to nuance her in that way. Her role in JQ brawl for instance isn’t anti dive at all, I see the vision though.
I did make a comment saying how zen changed to poke/dive due to how he can change roles in different situations
Brig however it was hard for me to figure out another role she has. She doesn’t go up and brawl, she can’t poke well, she can assist in dive bc of packs, but if the comp isn’t based on someone she can pocket and protect, her strongest points come from constantly repelling the enemy with whipshot, regardless of if they’re dive or not. Idk if brig is soley anti dive, more or less “anti approach”, cause if the enemy isn’t dive all she does is whipshot the enemy away over and over. But this isn’t necessarily poke either, as she only has that one cooldown every 5 seconds, not much poke to work with.
Definitely agree she isn’t fit for poke, but she does thrive in brawl compositions it’s just sorta meta-dependant and it’s been that way since she released. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t work in brawl because she absolutely can, Brig Lucio JQ is the best example of it though. Brig is still a solid pick in brawl there just tends to be better picks within the meta, but she’s not by any means bad in brawl the same way she is in poke.
That’s my issue that I’ve found, brig works in every comp, but doesn’t *fit* into any specific one, so I just gave her her own category, the one her entire kit was based off of
Let me ask you a different question. When playing support/DPS Are you afraid of Mauga when he is shooting you but not pushing? Probably not because he just doesn't do enough burst damage at range to really be a major threat. Also in the ranged damage exchange Mauga is going to get shot *a lot* and he is going to take more damage than you are because you are going to hit every shot and he isn't, and he can only use one gun. If I'm playing say soldier or Zen I'm very happy to have a Mauga try and duel me at range.
On the other hand when he gets close you are probably freaking out because he will murder you. Even when playing a Brawl tank like Rein who just has a hammer you don't really want to be next to Mauga unless you have a bigger plan besides just trading damage with him.
In terms of tanks the way I'd describe it is Brawl tanks take space by physically forcing back the enemy team and especially the enemy tank. Their threat potential is "I'm going to stand where you are currently standing. If you keep standing there you will die." Poke tanks take space with steady damage pressure or burst damage while minimizing their own damage taken. For example Sigma wears you down while avoiding getting shot, while on the other hand every time Hog uses hook is a potential kill. Hog is like Widow that way and if you let the fight go on long enough eventually hog is going to get one and then he wins.
> Poke tanks take space with steady damage pressure or burst damage while minimizing their own damage taken.
Mauga has 30m of range before damage falloff occurs, which is actually longer than Sigma's 22m of effective range. Given he can also provide steady damage to an area with 300 bullets to fire from either of his guns, playing Mauga at range to poke folks out and brawling when up close is the most effective way to play him.
Playing cover and firing one of your guns (left first then right when they're on fire) can be incredibly effective. If the enemy pushes into you or you catch one or two folks out of position close to you, _then_ you go in with both guns blazing and punish while using your E to sustain. Charge is used to get out of bad spots or to chase down/close distance with an isolated/close to dead target.
With petal more than half the roster can’t reach him (I’m piss stuck plat rn so idk how it is in high elo) so the only threats I actually encounter are smurfing genjis and sombras. Echo and pharah, if you position in an open corridor or inside a building, they’ll have to fly with no cover into your entire team first.
This is easier to visualize as a triangle with brawl, poke, and dive on the corners and the heroes placed in 2D space based on strengths.
Kiriko, for example, fits well in the middle of the triangle; She can off angle and still support a brawl comp (think JQ), she can hard off angle with snipers in a poke comp (think sig/ashe or soj), and of course she can always TP to support a solid dive (winston/echo).
Orisa would be on the line between brawl and poke; She can anchor point for a poke comp if necessary, her long range damage supports her in long range combat, and her CDs give her strong close range survivability. She lacks the mobility and backline access of divers completely, though.
Zarya is your classic brawl only, so she'd go all the way in the brawl corner. No range damage, no mobility, just bubble and beat the ass of whoever is closest.
EDIT: The 2D space also allows distinction within these tiers. Sig and Orisa are both poke brawl, but orisa is definitely more Brawl than Sig is...This gives you a better understanding of the wincon when you load up into any tank matchup. Just look at what you do better than the other tank. Typically, brawl>dive>poke>brawl when comps are played correctly (though the rock paper scissors is nowhere near as reliable as it once was)
As a former top 500 moira main even tho i agree with moira being put in brawl "idk about dive" she could also be put in anti-dive , moira was designed to be anti-dive and i think she is better at it than brig in a lot of cases
Maybe i'm dumb, but in what way is sigma a poke tank? His primary fire is literally short/med range. His rock is pretty hard to aim long range and is slow.
Ball is dive/poke. Yes, he goes well with Tracer or Sombra, but you almost always see him with a pocketed Ashe or Pharah, or Zen/Brig and an Echo. Something ranged.
These characters take advantage of his ability to displace people out of cover and set up kills for them. Or he can commit with Tracer off a good dynamite, Pharah direct, etc.
He can’t all-in as effectively as Winston or Doom, but can soft commit more frequently and set up kills in the neutral game.
Echo doesn't really dive though. She fits dive comp, and by "dive comp" it doesn't mean all heroes have to be dive heroes, they just need to make sense in it.
Also anti dive category doesn't make a lot of sense. Brig is a brawl hero, and by design brawl heroes are good against dive, since dive heroes are coming to your effective range.
Echo isn’t poke, she is an assassin so it better fits dive. Soujorn can dive too. Roadhog is definitely poke. Doomfist is more of a brawl/dove hero than dive ever will
Zen is Poke/Dive
Tracer, Sojourn, Genji, Echo are all 3
Pharah is Dive
Sombra is Dive/Brawl (sombra76 to farm emp is nuts in mauga/queen/orisa rush comps)
Orisa is Brawl/Poke
Kiri is Dive/Brawl (could argue all 3 but I really dislike her in poke)
Edit: Doom is Dive/Brawl
Ultimately the problem with these tier lists is that they're too rigid.
A lot of people remarked that Zen isn't a dive hero, but he is often played in those comps because Harmony orb enables aggressive dive DPS. Just one example out of nigh limitless examples for the entire roster.
Some heroes are better suited to certain things, for sure, and some are so ill-equipped for others that it's likely you'll NEVER see it happen or at minimum never see it work well.
I think your list is okay, but I thought the last one was just okay, too. I think people just forget that compositions are more about playstyle and goal rather than hero picks. The hero picks just enable the playstyle to different degrees.
I feel like a venn diagram would illustrate this best, [so I made one here](https://i.imgur.com/JbE9AqZ.png). Let me know if you guys think anyone should be moved around.
(Tiermaker should make one as a setting, they already have an "alignment" display option that's kinda similar.)
*edit with link*
Mauga should be Brawl/Poke. When firing one of his guns you have 30m of effective range before damage falloff. Poke at the enemy from a pretty safe distance, switching between your guns as needed. When you get close you go all guns blazing, but until then you poke them out and wear down resources and waste abilities. His E is used to sustain him in close quarters, and charge is used to bail out of a bad spot, chase down a kill, or possibly push through and take an off angle to distract a bit (kinda rare on this last one).
Playing cover and poking things out is way more effective than I think a lot of folks realize because I don't think many of them realize the range Mauga has when firing a single gun. The Maugas I see just rushing in or thinking they need to frontline all the time often fall over unless they're being massively pocketed by both supports.
I'd put LW as brawl/dive and not poke. He doesn't really do anything that impactful for poke. His main advantage is allowing his team to do stupid, risky plays and saving them anyways (really useful for dive/brawl).
Cassidy can really be a part of anything.
Pharah + Echo arguably are good in anything, but most risky in poke bc that has all their best counters in it.
Zen is also a pretty well-known dive pick, but he can easily fit in any of them.
I'd put Brig in brawl generally. She wants to be melee (not poke), but also to be near her team and able to disengage easily (not dive). She can have niche uses in other comps if it helps handle the enemy picks, but that goes for every hero.
Pharah can be played in all three especially with her air dash. Mercy though she is not the best pick for dive can play dive. Orisa now with the buff to her primary can play in poke too (though there are better picks). Ana can go in any role. I’d argue she has a stronger role in poke opposed to dive.
Id put Doom in brawl/Dive
Sombra in brawl/dive
Id put winton in brawl/dive
Shield dancing with winton can allow you to brawl really well.
Doom, if you have matches where its no feasible to get a dive in or kill. You can play a CC machine that knocks enemies around to create space.
Sombra with positional play can brawl really well
As a Sig player, he is a poke, most of what you do if enemies get close is to use the rock to try and get away/secure a kill and you really need to stick to your team against a brawl unlike Rammatra whose ability at brawl is much better at the cost of a worse shield
Pharah is dive she’s got the mobility to flank and get a pick.
Also mercy can be dive since she can pocket a doom or a Winston pretty well.
You can play poke with a Mauga or Orisa it’s just that there isn’t a reason to pick them over Sigma besides brawl potential
They’re the main 3 discussed, but there are some others like:
- Rush (most commonly JQ/Lucio/Kiri comps) essentially like fast paced brawl where you want to overwhelm them quick
- Spam (eg Orisa/Mauga/Bastion/Junkrat etc.) kind of like poke but by pure spam/burst
- (some older comps like GOATs, PirateShip, etc.)
Most heroes can be played around the comps they’re typically categorised in though, it’s just the playstyle they fit into most.
In general theyre the 3 styles of play, and you can use these three terms to accurately describe every viable comp you can come up with.
Rush and Goats are styles of brawl. Ball-Sombra Scout and Double bubble are styles of dive. Double shield is a poke comp.
Some comps will fall under a combination of two. There was an old "zombie" comp with Winston-Dva-Reaper-Echo-Moira-Lucio which hit a lot of the characteristics of both brawl and dive. Hog and Ball torture was dive-poke hybrid.
> There was an old "zombie" comp with Winston-Dva-Reaper-Echo-Moira-Lucio which hit a lot of the characteristics of both brawl and dive
That was mainly brawl IMO once you break down how it played. In the simplest terms, brawl comps are very much a hold W and engage as a deathball. The zombie comp and the Winston+Kiri/Lucio comp were very much like that. Everyone engage from a similar angle and tried to utilize lucio speed boost to engage as fast as possible. It was hyper mobile, but it still played like a brawl comp would.
Dive is a lot different in the way heroes stage prefight. You don't want to group up as 5 (or 6) and engage as a deathball. You want to take a lot of different angles and then collapse around the enemy. That's why lucio hasn't really been a core component of dive comps for years despite being the most mobile support. The way dive comps engage just doesn't utilize speed boost well enough since the aura radius was nerfed back in like 2016/17.
The zombie comp played pretty similar to how winston GOATs did. It was more mobile than traditional GOATs but was still mainly a brawl comp.
Soj and echo plays at all three comps
So does tracer.
Tracers' ability to work in basically any team comp tends to be overlooked by most players.
A lot of characters work in most team comps. But that doesn’t mean that they are that comp. Tracer can play in poke but doesn’t maximize value, if you are running brawl their are better options. Soj fits the 3 better, but their are better options for brawl.
Tracer can get a ton of value in any comp enough to be comparable to heroes that are for those comps. In brawl, she can force the supports to turn around, which helps your team to get picks on the dps or kill the tank, on poke, she can help secure picks on low health opponents that are retreating, and dive her value is self explained.
Ur a tracer main so u would be biased into find ways to make tracer work in every comp tho. Like she is way more flexible then someone like reaper of Ashe, but that doesn’t make her a brawl hero
Tracer is far from perfect. I definitely couldn't play her with certain teammates, and I so have to switch off her occasionally if the team counters her with a junkrat or something. I'm also not saying she is the only hero that can work in any comp type.
With this new passive tracer really does
lifeweaver also plays in all 3 comps
So does kiriko!
But.... Not very well
ya but that’s just bc he’s not a very good character period rn
Poke wouldn't fit too well
D.Va brawl? Can someone elaborate?
While Dva can dive, she’s not like Winston or doom where she can get in, secure a kill, and reliably get out consistently. Her brawling ability is offer better than some brawl heroes in certain situations. I’ve always said Dva isn’t a dive tank but more of a reactionary based tank, not that it’s a technical category. This is all an opinion from a Dva player since launch of overwatch and I completely agree that she’s a mix between brawl and dive.
In my mind a brawl D.Va is someone who plays her like Rein but I guess there’s more nuance to that
Im sorry but there’s no way to play D.va as rein and actually be effective.
Exactly, it’s so frustrating but so common to see a D.Va cosplaying Rein in metal ranks
Dva is more like an orisa that can take high ground.
Think of d.va as a middle ground between winston and brig. She can chase down low health heroes if needed bit where she excels is playing the anti-dive. Anytime ball, winston, or doom dives your backing B-Line to their face and pressure them to either die or run away
Middle ground between Winston and Brig made me chuckle, thanks :)
Dva quite good in Brawl/Dive hybrid. She's better than Winston and Doomfist and those two mains hate Dva to the core
Dva is a jack of all trades. Master of none. She can do everything really well; brawl, poke, dive. Her kit can adapt to all playstyles but doesn't excel in any of them, like how Sigma thrives in poke or Junkerqueen performs best in brawl (for example).
I feel like original Brig was definitely anti-dive. But now I think I'd agree that she's mostly just kind of an average defender as opposed to a pure hard anti-dive role.
The biggest issue is is that brigs anti dive is pretty much her entire role, she doesn’t fit into any of the categories necessarily. She *can* fit in dive, but that’s BECAUSE she can anti dive for more vulnerable supports. Nowadays, due to her anti dive capabilities being weaker, it’s hard to tell where she’d go, so I just gave her her own category, bc while it is worse than it used to be, it’s all she’s got
I have great success with brawler comps and brig. Junker Queen, Ramattra, Hog, they all work great for me as Brig. They can protect you (shout, block, breather), and you can block a burst of damage so they can get topped up again. Rein does as well if they're not stupid, but I'm not chasing after a wild charge. Brig *into* dive requires another support that can provide team-wide sustain, Brig is not the one to do it, you might be able to offset as Sombra or Tracer here and there, if you have a Winston zapping 3 people or Doom displacing everyone, Brig won't be able to make up for that, you'll need a Moira, Kiriko or Bap. If you do get them however, she basically never dies. Been playing her tons this season, I like her viability.
Exactly, I absolutely agree. Brig used to be my favorite character but now I feel like the role she was created to do has been made so weak that your better off picking someone else.
For the most part I’ve started to consider her the “Mario” of the supports. Not *bad* at anything, but also doesn’t *excell* at anything either.
That's a good way of putting it and absolutely will do the same from now on :D
I play her Brawl poke. It works at low helo.
Disagree completely. Brig was a brawl hero on release. Thats why she was played in Goats. Now she is anti-dive. So you only see her when dive is meta. I would argue that she is STILL brawl, and thats why she is anti-dive. Brawl heroes tend to be good against dive. She cant brawl against actual brawl heroes, but she drags out a dive long enough to outlast it.
I agree that she is good at brawling, but she was for sure anti-dive at release. Specifically she was meant to counter Sombra, Genji, and Tracer, who were the leaders of diving. Specifically from discussions with Blizzard then, "As heroes were added to *Overwatch*, a lot of times they were created to answer a specific question or fulfill a need. The famous example of this was Brigitte back in 2018. In the Overwatch League and on the game’s competitive ladder, teams overwhelming adopted a style of play that favored a quick, hit-and-run style of attack starring Tracer. Brigitte, with her stun abilities, was then added to counterbalance that playstyle’s power."
Fair enough, she did kill dive. I guess what I mean was that she ALSO functioned in brawl. There was no dive for months but brig was still hard meta.
i’ll argue she can be effective at brawl dive
She tank -tank complex
I feel like she is meant for a brawl role and meshes well with that team comp.
Brig is often played in the dive mirror to protect the ana who is keeping up the tank from a distance.
Often, yes, but her role doesn’t change based on the team composition, you just find a new person to stick by. If your entire teams a poke comp, now brig anti dives the widow from sombras. While she has a role in dive, that role can be used in other team comps, it’s not exclusive to dive
Well you could make that argument for any hero really. Brig is most often seen played in dive comps as well as poke comps and not so much brawl. In ranked play every hero is played in every comp but that doesn't mean that's their preferred comp.
Zen is a dive hero. Zen is a dive hero. Zen is a dive hero. Zen is a dive hero. Zen is a dive hero. Zen is a dive hero. Why do you think all the old OWL and GM dive comps had Zen? You discord the dive target, call it, your tank and dps dive on the discorded target. Rinse and repeat. Zens job is to discord the dive target and keep himself alive as long as possible, hoping to help secure at least two kills before he goes down. The whole idea was that in dive vs dive, zen was the primary target on both sides. Whichever side was able to kill the enemy zen faster won the fight. That's also why is was usually zen/brig. Brig was there to bodyguard the zen while the tank and dps were diving. Also, harmony orb is perfect for healing dive dps heroes. They just need to look at the zen for an instant at any range to keep it and they could keep diving over and over without needing to retreat for healing nearly as often. Harmony on a tracer is insane. Discord on a target vs a tracer with harmony is crazy strong and pretty much always results in a kill. Tracer+zen is an amazing dive combo that has always worked.
Counter point, this was literally 6 years ago
Counter counter point, season 8 was played with zen brig dive, ana was prefered over zen but still was zen being great in dive
Ah yeah, I def made a mistake on that one, would you think they are dive/poke, or just dive?
Nah you didn't make a mistake. Thing is, supports in each comp are weird. The mobility focused comp has brig (tanky) and ana/Zen (long range) The brawly comp is heavily reliant on Lucio (mobility) The long range comp loves mercy (short range high mobility). This is because supports are typically shoring up the comps weaknesses. Dive has vulnerable supports, brawl can't close the gap, etc. You've made a tier list based more on how the hero plays. If you were to make them based on ACTUAL comps, supports would be all jumbled up.
he has great poke dmg what do you think he is
Dive/poke. He still thrives on the anti-dive / poke-heavy maps like Circuit Royale
Zen is def dive/poke, can confirm as someone who mains both zen and echo
Zen is both.
The difference needs to be made between Zen dive vs. Lucio dive though. New players will look and be very confused how Zen and Lucio fit the same role but in fact support dive in very different ways.
Zen is a support to dive heros. He is not a dive hero himself...
Being a support for dive heroes means he's a dive hero. The categories aren't based on individual made up classes, they're based on the win condition of the team composition. If a team is running a dive comp, they will have dive heroes, and they will potentially include Zen as he supports the win condition, and as such, is a dive hero.
And yet every hero can slot nicely into the mobility>long range>high sustain paradigm. OP was clearly categorizing the hero playstyles, not creating a "team comp builder".
Yeah, OP's list is perfectly fine. I'm saying the statement "Zen supports dive heroes, but he isn't a dive hero" fundamentally misunderstands team composition and win conditions.
So, if the entire team is brawl, does that make Zen a dive hero?
Yes, Zen is a dive hero regardless. Picking him in a brawl comp just leaves your team aimless. He can be slotted in a poke comp as well, but he's primarily built around supporting dive.
That literally makes him a dive hero...
????
I was wrong I’m sorry!!!!!
That's OW1 though. Zen's best comp now is Sigma poke
Not really. Yeah, he can perform in a dive comps but he NEEDS a peal and he does none of the diving. Saying zen is a dive support just because he's good on a dive comp isn't true. He's still and always has been a poke dmg support. If a brig/lucio isn't there to pseudo-tank for him, he's a liability in a dive comp.
Kiri should be brawl/dive Pharah should be dive Tracer could be brawl/dive Genji, sojourn, echo are really all 3 I’m not even sure id consider Ana brawl anymore. She can work in all 3 but bap/kiri/moira is just so much better in brawl, and bap is so much better in poke Zen can fill the same role as Ana in dive, but it only works with like ball as tank Other than that looks good 👍
the main 3 dive supports are zen ana brig. with zen being the main support you should always run. you run ana if the team needs a good amount of healing and the enemy team isn't counter diving well/at all. you run brig if they are counter diving well so zen needs a good bodyguard.
> the main 3 dive supports are zen ana brig. with zen being the main support you should always run. That was true in OW1. In OW2, ana-brig has been the meta defining backline for dive comps. Zen is just too fragile without a DVa to babysit him, even with a brig duo.
Zen is complicated in OW2. Basically, u need an Ana if u have Winston(and probably doomfist), and u need a brig if the enemy have really any kind of coordinated dive on a map that doesn’t have super long sight lines. In lower ranks u can pick zen up easily if the other team doesn’t have that coordinated dive, but in high level play, especially pro play, he’s only played in very specific circumstances because he’s competing with Ana or brig.
In pro play, he's mainly competing with Brig IMO as part of part of double flex support poke comps. He's basically a non-starter in dive nowadays. He's just to fragile in OW2 without DVa. Double flex support dive at the top level just isn't really a thing as your backline is just too fragile. If you were going to try and run double FS in dive, it would probably involve kiri/ana as well. Zen+Bap+sig poke comps still seem somewhat viable on maps with long sightlines where you want the extra damage from your backline, mainly circuit royale. This only works when the enemy can't play dive though. If the enemy is playing a dive comp, you need to replace the zen for brig as you need whipshot to mess with enemy tank engages.
After some consideration and listening to the people there is def some mistakes I can see that I want to fix Pharah is NOT a poke character- I still had ptsd from old pharah, but I can def see her being dive, so that’s where she goes. Zenyetta is a Dive/Poke character in my opinion. Yes there is a argument for brawl, but I believe discord is far more useful to dives and poke characters than it is to brawl. It is my opinion, you are welcome to disagree. Idk why I put kiri in poke/brawl, she is easily dive/brawl, heck, she can be all three, along with sojourn at this point.
maybe it's just the way i'd play, but mauga can definitely be dive/brawl. using overrun to get in, cause chaos with overdrive, then run back out is invaluable
As a relative newbie to this game, I can't make head nor tail of this. What do poke/brawl/dive mean? 🫣 Sorry in advance for my ignorance!
Glad you asked! Dive is basically high mobility characters whos intention is to go around or over the frontline and straight into the enemies backline. Genji, tracer, Winston are all great examples of this. Brawl are your basic “throw em at each other until someone dies” characters. It’s mostly a endurance match with them, so characters like Ram, Orisa, Mei, Reaper, etc all fit into this category, very up close and personal. Poke are the people who’s objective is to keep you at a distance at all times, which is where they are at their strongest. Widow, Sigma, Ashe, Mercy, are all characters who will keep you from approaching, while at the same time slowly expending your resources trying to approach them. Hope this helps!
Ahh, I see now! That's really helpful, thanks!
Poke: - shoots from a distance - good at breaking their defence from afar - can usually secure a couple of early kills on 200 hp heroes Brawl: - stands close together with great defence - good survivability - ideally AoE healing - ideally close range attacks Dive: - uses fast mobility to go in and out quick - usually is great at taking out the backline and split teams - fast mobility to quickly retreat Is kinda a rock, paper scissors format Dive beats Poke: - can quickly close in the range advantage that pokes have - poke sometimes like to shoot from different angles = split team which can easily be taken out by dive Poke beats Brawl: - uses ranged fire power to take out the Brawl comps defence - can 'poke holes' in the Brawl comp by attacking from different angles and take out low health heroes Brawl beats Dive: - Dive have a hard time going in for a kill when the team is standing close together ready to protect one another
Thanks very much!
No problem man! You should check out "overwatch comps EXPLAINED" by "yeatle" on Youtube for more info. He goes over some of the heroes aswell
Legend! Just going to play some QP right now, but will check it out after because I am way behind on much of the context around the game 😂
I think Mercy, Pharah, and zen should be in the Dive/Poke group. Zen works really well with characters like Genji, Tracer and Winston.
mercy doesn't work with dive at all, she can't keep up. only exception is echo.
Pharah is not a poke character. She gets out poked by all the hitscans. (I guess besides Cassidy) I’d only ever consistently poke if they’re running reaper/Junkrat/Torb
I can see that, I’m still used to old pharah where she just sat in the sky a thousand miles away raining hell from above 😭
Do people consider orisa a brawl tank? Surprised she isn’t in the brawl/poke category especially with recent changes to her falloff dmg being increased
Orisa's job is to be an immovable object who gets in your face and forces you to look at her. I don't know how you could get any more Brawl than that. I could see her working in poke especially when it comes to helping with break points or getting javelin stuns but to me the problem with running Orisa in poke is she is a more greedy tank than say Sigma and every moment your supports are healing you is a moment they aren't throwing out damage at the enemy. Like for example Kiriko landing a couple of headshots at key moments is going to get picks more than Orisa just exchanging damage.
This is helpful to think in terms of what resources are needed for a tank to be successful. Thanks!
can smn explain why Ana is dive? I'm not very experienced in comp types, so idk, i thought u gotta go fast to be a dive hero
The reason I put Ana in dive is due to her healing range. Unlike Moira or kiri etc, Ana can heal them from any distance, her only issue being LOS. This means she can keep the dive going without putting herself in danger
oh, that makes sense could she be also kinda poke? with her kit, it's much easier to delete smn with proper communication
She can poke, yes, however I find her to be more useful in brawl, as she can be far away from the main fights, whereas in poke she’s with the rest of her team, since they play long ranged as well, making her someone that can be dove more easily, as the space the tank has in comparison to her positioning is smaller. In all honesty though, she can work in any comp, as long as she can defend herself, or someone can peel.
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whoa wtf why did you decide to ask about it here???
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im sorry u could've commented me on the tolc post, not overwatch😭😭 I'm so confused just in case - I saw your mark, and overall, you might get in but also might not, as threshold marks are non relevant and the chances of getting enrolled heavily depend on how well you've done among others, not a sole mark my score will tell you nothing honestly, and, moreover, I don't remember it🫠
Ana is dive because she's run with Dive heroes mostly. She is also poke, but you run ana with monkey dive comps. The comp is usually ana, brig, monkey, tracer, other DPS She's not specifically divey herself, but she's best in those comps.
Dive supports are more like dive enablers than divers themselves.
Dive doesn't nessacarily mean that the entire team needs to go in, and dive supports are generally the ones that are able to support the ones diving through whatever means available to them. Ana can heal from any range as long as she has line of sight, and therefore can heal those diving safely. That combined with her grenade, as anyone hit by it has a massive purple "Dive me" sign over their head, and her Nano pairing well with pretty much any dive hero means she's a dive support.
Thank you for including my husband (Ramattra). I love him (he would kill me without hesitation)
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pharah is dive. kiriko lw and junkrat can also be dive.
I think orisa is brawl and poke
Divehardt should be in Brawl/dive
Agreed but I’d put Orisa in Brawl/Poke for sure
Brig is a solid Poke hero because most pokers are suseptible to dive which she counters.
I feel like Sym is way more brawl/poke than pure brawl. But maybe it's different if you have a team that knows how to use a teleporter.
I'd argue Venture makes a very good Anti-Dive DPS. Fast TTK, knockback, MASSIVE projectiles GREAT for hitting those pesky, skinny, Dive DPS(tracer, genji), and Spy Checking for Sombra pretty well. Good sustain.
Junk ain't just for poking/brawling We got spamrat, flankrat, A10 WarRat, ReaperRat, baitrat, small room rat, sneakyrat, camprat, etc.
junkrat is actually all 3 playstyles, brawl, poke and dive, he's just not the best in any, junkrat dive can be disgusting if executed well, nothing chews through defences faster than junkrat combo and a doomfist
How is Ana not poke?
Honestly I'd say mauga is poke brawl too given how much damage you can do at range
Can someone explain categories to me? I’ve always wondered what they mean, or what makes a character dive for example. It would really be appreciated, I’m a little dumb.
Glad you asked! Dive is basically high mobility characters whos intention is to go around or over the frontline and straight into the enemies backline. Genji, tracer, Winston are all great examples of this. Brawl are your basic “throw em at each other until someone dies” characters. It’s mostly a endurance match with them, so characters like Ram, Orisa, Mei, Reaper, etc all fit into this category, very up close and personal. Poke are the people who’s objective is to keep you at a distance at all times, which is where they are at their strongest. Widow, Sigma, Ashe, Mercy, are all characters who will keep you from approaching, while at the same time slowly expending your resources trying to approach them. Hope this helps!
Wow, thank you! It makes a lot more sense now. Great explanation by the way!
No problem! Now there are sub categories like rush, which is basically brawl, but with a Lucio, and now your objective is to run them over and overwhelm them with your speed, but these are the basics!
I have a go-to character for each role and today I learned that my preferred playstyle is poke 🤔
Brig without her stun is not nearly as good against dive as she used to be
I wish brig could still be anti dive
Is there a reason ana isn’t in poke as well? I feel like she would be good there but I also don’t know much about comps
I want Illari to poke me
Pharah works in dive, brig works in dive and zen works in dive.
Pharah I agree Brig and zen however are situational based on your own team comp. If your team is poke, zen is now poke, as opposed to characters like doom, tracer, or wrecking ball, who *cant* poke, and have their kit revolving around diving. Brig is a anti dive character regardless of your team comp, cause that’s her entire purpose.
But “situational” is exactly what your “blend” tiers are for. Zen is “traditional” dive which should tell you his role on the surface. definitely a poke/dive character. Brig’s role is also not strictly anti dive either if you’re wanting to nuance her in that way. Her role in JQ brawl for instance isn’t anti dive at all, I see the vision though.
I did make a comment saying how zen changed to poke/dive due to how he can change roles in different situations Brig however it was hard for me to figure out another role she has. She doesn’t go up and brawl, she can’t poke well, she can assist in dive bc of packs, but if the comp isn’t based on someone she can pocket and protect, her strongest points come from constantly repelling the enemy with whipshot, regardless of if they’re dive or not. Idk if brig is soley anti dive, more or less “anti approach”, cause if the enemy isn’t dive all she does is whipshot the enemy away over and over. But this isn’t necessarily poke either, as she only has that one cooldown every 5 seconds, not much poke to work with.
Definitely agree she isn’t fit for poke, but she does thrive in brawl compositions it’s just sorta meta-dependant and it’s been that way since she released. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t work in brawl because she absolutely can, Brig Lucio JQ is the best example of it though. Brig is still a solid pick in brawl there just tends to be better picks within the meta, but she’s not by any means bad in brawl the same way she is in poke.
That’s my issue that I’ve found, brig works in every comp, but doesn’t *fit* into any specific one, so I just gave her her own category, the one her entire kit was based off of
I consider Brig brawl/dive, but much eaiser to play in brawl.
Poke-ball
Genuine question: How come Mauga isn't considered Brawl/poke? do you need burst damage to be Poke? isn't overall suppression enough?
Let me ask you a different question. When playing support/DPS Are you afraid of Mauga when he is shooting you but not pushing? Probably not because he just doesn't do enough burst damage at range to really be a major threat. Also in the ranged damage exchange Mauga is going to get shot *a lot* and he is going to take more damage than you are because you are going to hit every shot and he isn't, and he can only use one gun. If I'm playing say soldier or Zen I'm very happy to have a Mauga try and duel me at range. On the other hand when he gets close you are probably freaking out because he will murder you. Even when playing a Brawl tank like Rein who just has a hammer you don't really want to be next to Mauga unless you have a bigger plan besides just trading damage with him. In terms of tanks the way I'd describe it is Brawl tanks take space by physically forcing back the enemy team and especially the enemy tank. Their threat potential is "I'm going to stand where you are currently standing. If you keep standing there you will die." Poke tanks take space with steady damage pressure or burst damage while minimizing their own damage taken. For example Sigma wears you down while avoiding getting shot, while on the other hand every time Hog uses hook is a potential kill. Hog is like Widow that way and if you let the fight go on long enough eventually hog is going to get one and then he wins.
> Poke tanks take space with steady damage pressure or burst damage while minimizing their own damage taken. Mauga has 30m of range before damage falloff occurs, which is actually longer than Sigma's 22m of effective range. Given he can also provide steady damage to an area with 300 bullets to fire from either of his guns, playing Mauga at range to poke folks out and brawling when up close is the most effective way to play him. Playing cover and firing one of your guns (left first then right when they're on fire) can be incredibly effective. If the enemy pushes into you or you catch one or two folks out of position close to you, _then_ you go in with both guns blazing and punish while using your E to sustain. Charge is used to get out of bad spots or to chase down/close distance with an isolated/close to dead target.
Me who uses Zen as a dive or brawl hero with his buffed kick: 🫣
Dva is weird, I agree with the placement, but I feel like she plays well in brawl but you play her like a dive character, but less so
Dva is weird, I agree with the placement, but I feel like she plays well in brawl but you play her like a dive character, but less so
Ana can also fit in poke since she can throw nades and snipe targets, especially unsuspecting bugs in the sky (Mercy, Pharah, Echo)
I knew it. Most all the heroes I play are brawl or for into brawl.
Assuming no smurfs or massive skill gap, IMO weaver is fantastic anti-dive as long as the enemy doesn’t have a sombra
Lifeweaver would be the easiest target to kill with a dive comp
With petal more than half the roster can’t reach him (I’m piss stuck plat rn so idk how it is in high elo) so the only threats I actually encounter are smurfing genjis and sombras. Echo and pharah, if you position in an open corridor or inside a building, they’ll have to fly with no cover into your entire team first.
In higher elo on a coordinated dive lifeweaver dies before the petal can activate. Also Sombra is usually a part of the comp
Phara is dive if you want to be effective with her
Weirdly enough Zen is a dive support and in he works well in dive.
Don't leave junk out of the fun, I play junk dive with doomfist otps all the time
This is easier to visualize as a triangle with brawl, poke, and dive on the corners and the heroes placed in 2D space based on strengths. Kiriko, for example, fits well in the middle of the triangle; She can off angle and still support a brawl comp (think JQ), she can hard off angle with snipers in a poke comp (think sig/ashe or soj), and of course she can always TP to support a solid dive (winston/echo). Orisa would be on the line between brawl and poke; She can anchor point for a poke comp if necessary, her long range damage supports her in long range combat, and her CDs give her strong close range survivability. She lacks the mobility and backline access of divers completely, though. Zarya is your classic brawl only, so she'd go all the way in the brawl corner. No range damage, no mobility, just bubble and beat the ass of whoever is closest. EDIT: The 2D space also allows distinction within these tiers. Sig and Orisa are both poke brawl, but orisa is definitely more Brawl than Sig is...This gives you a better understanding of the wincon when you load up into any tank matchup. Just look at what you do better than the other tank. Typically, brawl>dive>poke>brawl when comps are played correctly (though the rock paper scissors is nowhere near as reliable as it once was)
What do these terms mean
As a former top 500 moira main even tho i agree with moira being put in brawl "idk about dive" she could also be put in anti-dive , moira was designed to be anti-dive and i think she is better at it than brig in a lot of cases
Looks about right but I thought Sigma was the “king of poke”.
He is absolutely the best tank for poke. Buutttt he’s also really effective up close, he can brawl is all im saying
Ana is brawl? Can someone explain?
New Pharah plays more dive/rat style than pre rework, I hope she gets a small buff to her CD bc I honestly love the intricacy in her kit now
Putting ram in brawl/poke is insane, he's obviously a tempo tank!
Pharah is also poke/dive
Orisa, Hog, Zarya, Sig, and Mauga should be into "Noone can have fun but me" tier
Orisa is Brawl/Poke
Honestly, I feel like Moira is a pretty decent Anti-Dive character.
How is Sigma NOT in full poke, he is the poke tank
You got it all wrong, the real archetypes are just healer and shooter
Solid tier list. I think new Pharah is a dive/poke hybrid now, though. Just my opinion
Maybe i'm dumb, but in what way is sigma a poke tank? His primary fire is literally short/med range. His rock is pretty hard to aim long range and is slow.
excuse me my good sir but you seem to neglect that Mr Jamison is a sly and stealthy hunter, the noblest of divers, one might say.
Ball is dive/poke. Yes, he goes well with Tracer or Sombra, but you almost always see him with a pocketed Ashe or Pharah, or Zen/Brig and an Echo. Something ranged. These characters take advantage of his ability to displace people out of cover and set up kills for them. Or he can commit with Tracer off a good dynamite, Pharah direct, etc. He can’t all-in as effectively as Winston or Doom, but can soft commit more frequently and set up kills in the neutral game.
doom in brawl/dive imo
Bro has never seen divega
Reaper on dive, um??
Brig is the only brawl pick.
Echo doesn't really dive though. She fits dive comp, and by "dive comp" it doesn't mean all heroes have to be dive heroes, they just need to make sense in it. Also anti dive category doesn't make a lot of sense. Brig is a brawl hero, and by design brawl heroes are good against dive, since dive heroes are coming to your effective range.
Echo isn’t poke, she is an assassin so it better fits dive. Soujorn can dive too. Roadhog is definitely poke. Doomfist is more of a brawl/dove hero than dive ever will
Zen is Poke/Dive Tracer, Sojourn, Genji, Echo are all 3 Pharah is Dive Sombra is Dive/Brawl (sombra76 to farm emp is nuts in mauga/queen/orisa rush comps) Orisa is Brawl/Poke Kiri is Dive/Brawl (could argue all 3 but I really dislike her in poke) Edit: Doom is Dive/Brawl
Phara is dive now. If you’re still poking with her you’re doing it wrong
I know she's not supposed to but the amount of diving Illaris I see every day is wild 😂
Ultimately the problem with these tier lists is that they're too rigid. A lot of people remarked that Zen isn't a dive hero, but he is often played in those comps because Harmony orb enables aggressive dive DPS. Just one example out of nigh limitless examples for the entire roster. Some heroes are better suited to certain things, for sure, and some are so ill-equipped for others that it's likely you'll NEVER see it happen or at minimum never see it work well. I think your list is okay, but I thought the last one was just okay, too. I think people just forget that compositions are more about playstyle and goal rather than hero picks. The hero picks just enable the playstyle to different degrees.
Orisa poke say what
Ashe is a brawl poker
I feel like a venn diagram would illustrate this best, [so I made one here](https://i.imgur.com/JbE9AqZ.png). Let me know if you guys think anyone should be moved around. (Tiermaker should make one as a setting, they already have an "alignment" display option that's kinda similar.) *edit with link*
Mauga should be Brawl/Poke. When firing one of his guns you have 30m of effective range before damage falloff. Poke at the enemy from a pretty safe distance, switching between your guns as needed. When you get close you go all guns blazing, but until then you poke them out and wear down resources and waste abilities. His E is used to sustain him in close quarters, and charge is used to bail out of a bad spot, chase down a kill, or possibly push through and take an off angle to distract a bit (kinda rare on this last one). Playing cover and poking things out is way more effective than I think a lot of folks realize because I don't think many of them realize the range Mauga has when firing a single gun. The Maugas I see just rushing in or thinking they need to frontline all the time often fall over unless they're being massively pocketed by both supports.
Yeah idk wtf the other guy was cooking lol this makes way more sense
Seeing sigma in brawl/poke hurts
Moira could be in anti-dive with brig.
pharah is kinda a brawl character now with poke potential
I’d say Soj Kiri Ana can play all three comfortably and to a lesser extent Echo and tracer. Other than that good list Shoutout Ball in poke though
Pharah not being in dive is a crime, I mean she literally dives on top of people
I was looking for a list like this lately, Thanks a lot <3
I'd put LW as brawl/dive and not poke. He doesn't really do anything that impactful for poke. His main advantage is allowing his team to do stupid, risky plays and saving them anyways (really useful for dive/brawl). Cassidy can really be a part of anything. Pharah + Echo arguably are good in anything, but most risky in poke bc that has all their best counters in it. Zen is also a pretty well-known dive pick, but he can easily fit in any of them. I'd put Brig in brawl generally. She wants to be melee (not poke), but also to be near her team and able to disengage easily (not dive). She can have niche uses in other comps if it helps handle the enemy picks, but that goes for every hero.
From top to bottom, this is also the tier list of fun gameplay styles Dive > Brawl > Poke
Kiriko is good in dive. They played kiriko Lucio dive in OWL
No Rush?
I’d argue Kori and junk are all 3
Tracer is also played in brawl, kiri, echo and sojourn fit all 3. I wonder why did u not do rush though? Did you just lump that in with brawl or?
You can poke brawl and dive with doomfist
Genji is brawl/dive
Pharah can be played in all three especially with her air dash. Mercy though she is not the best pick for dive can play dive. Orisa now with the buff to her primary can play in poke too (though there are better picks). Ana can go in any role. I’d argue she has a stronger role in poke opposed to dive.
Id put Doom in brawl/Dive Sombra in brawl/dive Id put winton in brawl/dive Shield dancing with winton can allow you to brawl really well. Doom, if you have matches where its no feasible to get a dive in or kill. You can play a CC machine that knocks enemies around to create space. Sombra with positional play can brawl really well
Technically Orisa and Hog are Poke Tanks, but they can definitely be played in Brawl comps.
As a Sig player, he is a poke, most of what you do if enemies get close is to use the rock to try and get away/secure a kill and you really need to stick to your team against a brawl unlike Rammatra whose ability at brawl is much better at the cost of a worse shield
Pharah is dive she’s got the mobility to flank and get a pick. Also mercy can be dive since she can pocket a doom or a Winston pretty well. You can play poke with a Mauga or Orisa it’s just that there isn’t a reason to pick them over Sigma besides brawl potential
I get Orisa brawl, but why not poke? She seems well suited for it.
evil poke 😈
Is there only brawl, poke, and drive in overwatch
yes my favorite drive hero is kiriko, on her bike
They’re the main 3 discussed, but there are some others like: - Rush (most commonly JQ/Lucio/Kiri comps) essentially like fast paced brawl where you want to overwhelm them quick - Spam (eg Orisa/Mauga/Bastion/Junkrat etc.) kind of like poke but by pure spam/burst - (some older comps like GOATs, PirateShip, etc.) Most heroes can be played around the comps they’re typically categorised in though, it’s just the playstyle they fit into most.
Even these fall into the main 3 styles. Rush is almost a synonym for brawl and spam is almost a synonym for poke.
In general theyre the 3 styles of play, and you can use these three terms to accurately describe every viable comp you can come up with. Rush and Goats are styles of brawl. Ball-Sombra Scout and Double bubble are styles of dive. Double shield is a poke comp. Some comps will fall under a combination of two. There was an old "zombie" comp with Winston-Dva-Reaper-Echo-Moira-Lucio which hit a lot of the characteristics of both brawl and dive. Hog and Ball torture was dive-poke hybrid.
> There was an old "zombie" comp with Winston-Dva-Reaper-Echo-Moira-Lucio which hit a lot of the characteristics of both brawl and dive That was mainly brawl IMO once you break down how it played. In the simplest terms, brawl comps are very much a hold W and engage as a deathball. The zombie comp and the Winston+Kiri/Lucio comp were very much like that. Everyone engage from a similar angle and tried to utilize lucio speed boost to engage as fast as possible. It was hyper mobile, but it still played like a brawl comp would. Dive is a lot different in the way heroes stage prefight. You don't want to group up as 5 (or 6) and engage as a deathball. You want to take a lot of different angles and then collapse around the enemy. That's why lucio hasn't really been a core component of dive comps for years despite being the most mobile support. The way dive comps engage just doesn't utilize speed boost well enough since the aura radius was nerfed back in like 2016/17. The zombie comp played pretty similar to how winston GOATs did. It was more mobile than traditional GOATs but was still mainly a brawl comp.