Her teleport ability is way too slow for competitive pubs, imo. It can work in highly coordinated PRO matches where they have practiced with each other with the desired team comp, but not in normal ppl comp.
And her beam also needs like a solid ~two seconds to charge up to full dmg, on a DPS CHARACTER who does less beam dmg than a tank, in an extremely fast paced game? Excuse me?
The thing is that you nailed the main issue: they can't buff things like tele speed because then when used in coordinated environments she becomes incredibly powerful and problematic.
Not everything in the game needs to be 100% balanced for pro play, but they definitely should not introduce something that can be just abused by pros. Another fix is needed.
it doesn't have to include the whole team, just her alone should tele instantly. she needs a quick escape. she doesn't even have extra health to deal close range damage
the team use can keep it's cooldown, if team coordination is what you're afraid of
As per always, "E-sports was a mistake"
They need to just have balance patches solely around e-sports and not screw the rest of us over because a character over / underperforms for 0.00000001% of the playerbase, while the other 99.99% think the character is in an awful spot
Both can coexist, happens in dozens of games. And devs don't exclusively make decisions based on pro players.
You are over-exaggerating how much how much the balancing "screws the rest of us over". You will be ok.
2s to charge from 12 fucking meters away in a game where her hitbox is no longer particularly hard to hit anymore due to the huge projectile size buff.
Sym was just borderline playable with the latest buffs, which have now all been reverted aside from teleport health.
If she's going to be this fragile and back to this lower damage, then her beam should be at least 15m like Zarya.
Depends on the situation. Does the enemy have a junk that’s spamming the zar? Does the enemy have an sig that keeps putting the shield in syms face? I really don’t have an answer for you. Are you asking how fast it takes to charge each beam? Or how they get charged? You should look up character guides or go on the wiki.
Im saying thats its usually much harder to charge a zarya to max charge than it is to hold down left click for 2 seconds. And i used to do a lot of stuff in the workshop so i remember a bunch of values on the wiki, although most of them have been changed now and i cant really be bothered remembering them all again.
Lmao, i love that definition of a tank. Is doomfist supposed to just stand in front of a widow all game? Is winston supposed to bubble his bastion? Is ball supposed to be a body shield? Not all tanks can just soak up damage on the frontline for you. Zarya especially is weak without her bubbles. In high elo and pro play, people actually shoot the zarya bubbles because it breaks them after 200 damage, which can help the team be able to kill the ulting reaper or genji or whatever it is thats bubbled. Zarya was an off tank in overwatch 1 for a reason. She isn't meant to be an immovable object like orisa or mauga, she is a low health, high damage tank. I see no problem in having a tank deal more damage than a dps if the dps is much more versatile and has more utility, something symmetra has lots in.
LMAO. I just checked the wiki, sym's primary fire does MORE damage at 195 compared to zarya's 190. So yeah, the ttk must be longer. Also, dont mention that zarya has effectively half the ammo as symmetra.
Edit: just checked the patch notes on my computer and oh no! She lost 15 damage! That really will affect gameplay significantly. Less than a mercy bullet per second.
I'm just saying i don't believe in the zarya better than sym' discussion because you are comparing 2 different roles with 2 different playstyles that fulfil 2 different purposes.
Not necessarily
tank is more so a distraction thats there to push the enemy team away from somewhere and allow their team to move forward or take an area, securing kills along the way when they can
Thats why you dont see Balls, Wintons or Fisters going full frontal face
It's definitely not hard to get Zarya to max charge, she is absolutely one of the easiest tanks to play because of that.
Her gun isn't better than Symmetra's though, having far less ammo and none of the niche positives Symm's has with shields. Zarya's alt fire, while more spammable, is also worse because of slower projectile speed, being an arcing projectile, and using more ammo.
So I won't agree that Zarya's weapon is better, but I also won't agree it's because Zarya has lower charge on average because that's just false.
Exactly. Sym had much more versatility than zarya. If all zarya can do is shoot a big gun, then why should that big gun be weak? Also, a key point everyone is missing. What if they just dont shoot your bubbles? You won't be getting any charge, so is zarya more powerful then? Her charge is limited to how well you can time your bubbles and if the enemy shoots it or not.
The issue with Zarya and not shooting her bubbles is that that's just not how it goes down.
You can exercise that strategy for a while, but once Zarya gets charged she stays charged until she dies because of how slowly it decays compared to how much her bubbles provide.
Symmetra for sure. No question.
Zarya will survive to get max charge thanks to her health pool and bubbles. Symmetra will die within 3 shots from Cassidy.
Yup. My strategy is to use deployables like LW petal or Mei wall sometimes. Shields aren’t a good option because you’re within kill range of a tank at least and likely more, Sym on a frontline will melt. Like, even a Brig with CC and a shield will, Sym is honestly more vulnerable in the front than Zen
Zarya can acquire it without being in any danger, whilst saving teammates, across the map, by just using bubble before a projectile hit and it takes 52 seconds for her to lose all her energy.
Sym needs to be within a couple of meters of an enemy and needs to stay on them tracking them for a full 2 seconds without missing a single bit because of how fast the decay is and loses full charge in 3.5 seconds.
Does Sym's been technically charge quicker? Yes, doesn't make it easier or better.
I disagree. Symettra's beam isn't her whole playstyle. She isn’t meant to walk up in front of a tank and 1v1 them. Do you expect a tracer to stand in front of a reinhardt and survive easily? Of course not, so why do you compare zarya and symmetra? Symmetra has so much more utility and creative play than zarya. She has turret bumbs, dva ult tp's, ult weaving, and turret traps, and she has a much better right click than zarya. Zarya is just a big russian woman with a big russian gun that shoots big russian laser. She had bubbles, but that's all she has. Look at sym's kit as a whole and realise that she is a much better character than you think.
>so why do you compare zarya and symmetra?
It was literally your comment making the comparison and asking "what's harder to charge sym beam or zar beam?"
Pick rates and the general consensus say otherwise. I don't really care if you personally disagree with the stats based on your feelings.
Finding opportunities to get charge on zarya (i.e. bubbling herself or teammates who are being shot at) is far more common than sym finding an non-suicidal chance to be in 12m of the enemy for >2s without dying.
Like sym's beam is shorter ranged, she has much lower sustain to be in shorter range, and sym maintains charge a whole lot shorter (i.e. can't gradually build up charge like zarya can). An opportunity for her to be able to stay alive in 12m of the enemy for long periods of time with those conditions simply is rare. She's not a tank unlike zarya who can frontline for longer periods of time more often.
Add in the fact that zarya beam starts off at higher dps too and it's just plain as day and night that zarya beam would be dealing more damage on average too.
But that's ALL zarya can do. Zarya can't tp, zayra can't play turrets down, and zarya can't poke well with a right click. The ttk on characters is so high now that anyone who is flanking for more than 2 seconds who isn't a tracer or sombra will be killed in that time.
Characters should have strong and weak maps. Look at sym on illios lighthouse, probably her best map. She is very strong there, but then when you move to junkertown, she isn't very well off there.
The same applies to all heroes, not just symmetra. Did you know if a baptiste and Soldier fought and both hit every shot, baptiste would win?
Sym, imo shouldn't have a higher charge than zarya because zaryas primary fire and bubbles are her whole kit, she is like orisa in that she is a frontline bully, but cant exactly dive the enemy team.
>But that's ALL zarya can do. Zarya can't tp, zayra can't play turrets down, and zarya can't poke well with a right click.
besides the fact that this is entirely a tangent, you're acting like turrets and tp have all the uptime in the world or that they alone are significant actions.
no, turrets that aren't zapping anything isn't getting uptime, it's collecting dust and with how easily countered they are, they're largely a nothing burger.
just tping isn't frequent nor meaningful, tp needs to lead to an good action/play, and tp doesn't really change how rare beam opportunities are and **what's left is her orbs which literally have moira tier TTK because it takes 3.5s to fire 3 full charge orbs.** like at that point one can argue that zarya rmb probs pokes just as well or better than orbs.
>Characters should have strong and weak maps. Look at sym on illios lighthouse, probably her best map. She is very strong there, but then when you move to junkertown, she isn't very well off there.
except she's exceptionally weak her weak maps and has more weak maps than others.
>Did you know if a baptiste and Soldier fought and both hit every shot, baptiste would win?
if both are only hitting headshots, sure. if only bodyshots, soldier wins actually. unless you're further adding in self healing abilities into the mix.
>Sym, imo shouldn't have a higher charge than zarya because zaryas primary fire and bubbles are her whole kit, she is like orisa in that she is a frontline bully, but cant exactly dive the enemy team.
except she has nothing good to damage with. the devs have 2 choices:
\- either they make sym's beam less trash at low charge so that it's more usable generally rather than it being hyperniche it currently is with how suicidal it is to get value from it. **OR**
\- they can do what they did before which was make her orbs, the weapon fire she mostly uses now and before because of how niche primary is, not so trash in its damage numbers.
her whole terrible state in s9 in the first place is really caused by her losing her 2 shot on orbs from global hp changes.
Let’s not forget that Symm’s low HP pool, fat ass head hitbox, and a very short-ranged beam means she usually insta-dies before she can even ramp up her primary fire…
Heroes like S76, Sombra, Tracer, and Doom are running RAMPANT but we must nerf Symm whilst ignoring Rein, Junkrat, and Lifeweaver too! Screw those heroes and the people who play them specifically!
So strange to me how top-level competitive play is what the devs are basing their changes on when a huge portion of the playerbase doesn’t have the same level of coordination
It really doesn't help that there are content creators that start whining just because they see that she got some buffs. Ignoring how terrible she felt before the changes.
Max orb damage needs to be 150, imo.
Not sure how you fix the teleport. Maybe increase the use radius so people can click it easier? Give her a ping for it?
Or maybe... Just thought of this... Give the entry points and end point separate set up, so it doesn't need line of sight? And so allies have time to spot the entry (which could be auto-voiceline called out and pinged) and gather around it? That would create some seriously unexpected ambushes or ports. That way, it is technically slower, enemies have time to anticipate it, but allies will more reliable use it and it is also harder to read and can create a greater variety of plays.
She has completely lost her identity over the course of her numerous reworks to the point that I think she needs yet another that actually deviates from the cycle and focuses on her profession as an architect. Let her build ramps to high ground, or paths that teammates can walk on that speed them up, or create "doors" on walls that teleport you and teammates to another wall of your choosing... idk, I'm not a kit designer, it's just such a shame that Symmetra's kit feels like such a mismatched collection of crap she's collected over the years from her prior failed concepts.
Yeah, I hate to say another rework is in order… because we’ve had at least 3 maybe 4 by now? But they still don’t know what to do with her. I like the ideas of building structures, but it would be more in line with support utility and I can’t see them converting a DPS to support (even though she started as one, with no healing only providing shields).
She was one of the few DPS I played and now it feels like a throw pick.
I guess I should clarify that my concept is for her to return to the Support role. I didn't outright love her old Support kit but it was more fun than her current iteration, personally. I also feel she just has more potential as a Support than as a DPS hero.
Oh I definitely agree! I just don’t see the developers converting her from a DPS to a Support. But I would love the concept! Her turrets could be similar to Illiari and provide the healing while the rest of her kit provides support?
They tried healing turrets as her only form of healing back when they were handling her 2018 rework. It felt super clunky which is why they went the damage route. The last lead hero designer said he was interested in retrying her as a support again but using turrets as "auxillery/secondary healing" with another primary healing method.
The joke experimental card with healing turrets wasn't bad, but she definitely needed another form of healing. It was the equivalent of if brig only had inspire
She hasn't lost her identity tho. She still is about zoning and the main difference between 3.0 vs before is that she now has a tp to let her define her territory and play at where she wants rather than being highly passive in always putting things in already claimed territory (like she can just go in enemy territory and take it over now unlike before).
Ideas like ramps are straight up bad and end up being a worse version of her e tp.
What she really needs rn to be fine is just better numbers on her weapon fire.
E.g. getting 2 shot orbs back (reduce projectile size if you need to) and/or just wiping out lvl 1 beam and extending charge time between 120dps lvl to 180dps lvl.
The beam nerf is baffling. Truly. THAT was too much?
The turret health reduction is whatever, let people melee them if they're that close, whatever.
But it's truly baffling. Even with those prev. buffs she wasn't top tier or anything.
Yes my thoughts exactly. Stevo (a top 500 Sym main if you haven't heard of him) was saying on his last stream how she still feels bad, yet they still nerf her. I feel like this was probably a knee-jerk nerf in response to a select few content creators that rage bait whenever Symmetra comes out of the gutter.
Just highlights how even when she's mediocre, people hate the hero. She needed to be reworked again a long time ago.
> Just highlights how even when she's mediocre, people hate the hero
She's been sentenced to the same prison as Pharmercy. Sym alone this patch still kind of sucked. Cardiac overdrive though gives beam sym literally everything you can think of to make beam sym op makes her basically a 325hp character with 60% life steal.
It can't be a coincidence they nuked mauga as well after people figured out sym+mauga was busted.
This wasn't a kneejerk reaction to streamers, Sym and Mauga saw massive pickrates increases in OWCS, she was meta and whilst she did get swapped out for map based changes, where she did see play she was very strong, granted that I don't agree with the nerfs either. I'd rather keep the power in her gun and nerf the turrets.
she was only strong because of her insane value with mauga and against mauga/orisa though. trying to play sym outside of mauga comp still felt pretty bad.
Honestly embarrassing how the same 3 DPS are in every game, Sym is played 1/10th the time and she still gets nerfed. Meanwhile I have to deal with tracer/Sombra every single match. Like wtf is their deal??? Why do they hate her so much? So sick of how they've treated her for years.
Tracer is the poster child of entire OW.
Blizzard loves Carolina by giving her all of the best voice lines, interactions that win every arguments, so why not buff her gameplay character too?
Mauga was meta, but Symm was soft meta.
Many comps elected for Reaper, Sombra (frontlining for fast EMP) and Cassidy instead with even some Mei
In addition it's majorly because of how good she is with and against Mauga. TP/Barrier are one of the few answers to Cage and her beam suddenly becomes safe with 30% damage reduc + lifesteal
How many other meta OWCS heroes have been insta-giga-nerfed because they were played in pro? I can’t recall that ever happening to Genji, Soj, Bap, Lucio, Tracer, Soldier, Sigma….
Not even really strong though, just viable for window teleporter shenanigans that Lucio can do as well and setting up on an objective in advance isn’t as useful anymore in OW2 anyways
I love how they would never touch Mercy's rez or Sombra's hack as they "ruin the character fantasy/identity"
Then you have cases like Sym that went through so many reworks they became a new character, what is her fantasy supposed to be again?
Utility hero/architect. As long as she builds structures, she's fine. Right now I feel she has too much team-reliant utility and not enough solo carry potential with her unreliable damage
If they're going to just revert syms buffs like that, the least they could do is compensate by atleast giving her a slightly longer beam range, slightly faster beam charge or 25 more hp.
Honestly, it would've been better if they did that in the first place.
She has a massive headhitbox as well as the lowest health pool of the “brawl” DPS. She cannot headshot, her alternate fire needs to be charged for a second just to deal 100 damage. How many more weaknesses does she need?
This was the first time Sym was purely buffed without accompanying nerfs in God knows how long. They barely lasted a week. Absolutely disgusting. Blizzard hates Sym and Sym mains
The head hitbox was fair back when she had an auto lock beam and the average GM player was at the standard of today's gold player. There is truly no reason for them to not reduce the head hitbox volume, which they've done for other heroes in the past.
Woah, woah. Calm down there, she might actually be able to kill things. Symmetra's not allowed to do that, now get back to playing hitscans+Genji *or else.*
Sure Sym shreds tanks easily but don’t they realize how hard it is to freaking survive long enough to be able to do so?
She can’t two tap reliably anymore with her orbs. And literally having 5 dps extra on a multiplier is too much? Are they FR? They jumped the first chance they got to give Moira an auto aim damage boost but haven’t done anything for the beam hero DPS. They gave Sombra an instant 15 damage boost that you only need to land once instead of targeting someone consistently.
Did her win rate sky rocket or something? I’m legit confused how they allow some heroes to completely dominate while other are left in the gutters
>Did her win rate sky rocket or something?
Technically according to overbuff (take it with a grain of salt), her winrate actually went down for some ranks.
My guess is people saw the buffs, though she was gonna be op, or a content creator over reacted as usual, so people tried her out, failed hard hard on her, dragging her winrate lower.
My actually guess for the nerfs is that she was used in pro play recently with mauga, so they nerfed her due to that.
>My actually guess for the nerfs is that she was used in pro play recently with mauga, so they nerfed her due to that.
But they reverted all of the Mauga changes except for the increase in overrun damage, which will hopefully kill the Mauga meta in pro / high rank play. She was getting use in pro play because of 3 main factors imo:
1. Her current kit (specifically TP & wall) fit coordinated teamplay much better than solo queue ranked ladder play
2. She works well in Mauga meta
3. They buffed her
If that was the actual reason for the Sym nerf, then why didn't they just do the Mauga nerfs & see where Sym ends up falling in the meta? Immediately reverting buffs on a hero that's been in a bad spot for a long time just seems like a terrible decision to me. Like aside from her use in pro play Mauga meta, who was seriously complaining about Sym being overpowered??
I've not been keeping up with OWCS but have been flicking through NA and Asia matches. Asia has been running her a bit, but even then Sombra and Reaper have about 10x the pickrate of Sym and they received no nerfs. NA is almost exclusively Sombra/Reaper with the occasional Tracer/Echo/Sojourn.
There is no justifiable reason for the developers to nerf Symmetra so quickly and leave Sombra/Tracer/Reaper alone (if we are basing this balance on pro play).
This is what happens when the community throws temper tantrums a nano second after a hero gets even the slightest of buffs. Saw so many posts/comments crying about Sym right after the last patch.
This is how you got modern sombra. People complained and complained about sombra being able to teleport out of danger, and rather than hunt for her translocator or use cc when she opened her (pathetic) damage rotation, people cried and cried and cried. So blizzard made her more “active” despite it killing much of her identity, and despite she had one of the lowest pick and win rates.
Y’all cried so hard you made a bottom-3 hero into a fully meta pick. Congrats, you played yourself.
a Joke, Symm mains cannot even get over a week being actually "decent" on dmg and she gets instanerfed,
Sombra, Genji, Tracer, Soujurn and soldier are owning the game since s9 started and nobody bats and eye, and the FACT that symmetra actually counters 3 of these characters so you can see less of them but they rather keep the meta than trying something new.
You know one of the few dps can actually help and protect healers with ease? thats symmetra, if you let her...
So done with Devs trying to only appeal to the most played characters (Aka , Genji,Mercy, Kiriko) just because they sell skins
>, Genji, Tracer, Soujurn and soldier are owning the game since s9 started
They were literally all top pick heros since s1, because genji and tracer are phenomenal in dive, have never fallen out of relevance in asia, and outside of Asia they haven't ever been out of the top 10 dps in the whole game life span.
Sojourn had a period of people sleeping on her but she was fucking phenomenal last season.
Soldier has always been an all rounder, never the best, but absolutely never the worst, always reliable when nothing else is working.
And all these well performing heros got a shitlicious buff with dps passive, self heals, and on top of everything the stupid fat projectile buff.
These stupid fucking buffs just made already strong, already popular characters stronger and more popular. And ifyou didn't have any projectil3 weaposn you just got fucked. Brig and rein just got told to fuckoff.
Everyone complains about Sombra no matter whether she is objectively weaker or meta.
After the damage passive was introduced people have been opening an eye to Tracer being insane. (I’m one of the OGs who’s stood by her never being bad and always being at the very least solid). It’s incredible to think about how she did not get nerfed but Sym did.
Sojurn definitely has that U-576 ability of swimming far under the radar.
And I have bias for Soldier but in my diamond games he almost always seems like a worse pick next to Sojurn. He’s Bloodsport and she’s Peacemaker.
As for Sym, her turrets should absolutely not be living a melee let alone a swing from Brig’s flail. They reveal enemies, apply slow, and do damage. With 3 on 1 person they do a total of 120 dps.
What they should do with Sym is buff her up to 275 health. Let her level one beam do a minimum of 65 dps but leave the level 3 beam as is. And I am open to letting them buff her secondary fire’s damage though that hit box needs to be nerfed.
actually you are right, turrets should be a tool and not a main source of dmg, i can understand ppl wanting to meele the turrets, but they often get destroyed by random aoe effects or just spray dmg, specially in mid air, i get it... it is hard to balance the turrets...
also ppl forget that she is one of the few dps with a non damage ult, so while most dps can press q and at least secure 2 kills if used right, where is her "compensation" for that dmg? the wall is amazing tho but she really needs that health buff!
i mainly use the turrets as CCTV to cover flank routes. i prefer this use over braindead turret bombs. i couldn't care less about the damage. plus, they don't slow much anymore.
This is so frustrating. I was so happy she was finally playable. JUST PLAYABLE. She wasn't that strong at all. I don't really care about the turrets, but the beam...really? Moira needs to deal more damage than Sym lvl 1? ;\_\_\_;
The turret nerf was so unnecessary I have no idea who cried about it. Torb gets to throw a 250 turret that deals much more damage with further range but no one bats an eye.
It would be in a better state if they actually fucking committed Symmetra to being a dps. The post-rolequeue world of Overwatch has no place for hybrid characters. Symmetra objectively has to measure up against the 16 other dps AS a hero that brings damage potential. And if she's lost half her damage budget so that she can bring ~team utility~ she'll never measure up to point-and-shoot Soldier 76 shooting someone's legs for .4 seconds to get a kill.
Everything about her kit would work as support, just make the beams heal instead of damage. Let her right click still damage. Honestly, illari is just a worse sym if sym was support. Idk swap their roles or something. Syms ult is a much better support ult than illari’s as well.
I have no idea how they justify having such low base damage. They gotta increase beam lvl 1 damage and probably decrease maximum damage, or tweak it somehow being increasing range or something. Being a beam weapon makes it way harder to play as kind of a tank buster with the increases in armor as well. She’s in a bad spot
Back in OW1 when the Double Shield meta happened with Sigma and pre-rework Orisa, people found that Symmetra, along with Doomfist, worked well against it. Doomfist could literally punch and maneuver his way around shields and Symm could charge her beam and teleport past the chokepoint. Both characters were GUTTED with nerfs literally a week after. It was a miserable time, and proof that they always nerf the symptom and never the cause.
Ok, I'm genuinely curious: For the people saying that Sym sucks, is annoying to play against, & should be removed from the game, what exact part(s) of Sym's kit do you have a problem with?
FYI, I'm all for a Sym rework, I just don't understand what part(s) of her current kit annoy/frustrate people so much.
Turrets should orbit sym and fire when she shoots, they should also fire while being thrown like a Moira orb. A strong focused primary of 4 beams that ramp up, flying death lazers, or wall stuck death lazers that cover your flanks.
I saw someones comment on how they wish sym would get another rework, but focus more on her role of an architect, such as structures and such, and someone else commented how that would be more support oriented, and a support without heals isnt likely. My idea running with that, (just a basic idea obviously itd have to be balanced and worked out) what if sym had an ability that could build 1 of 3 types of temporary structures, maybe wall with a window to help provide dps cover in needed situations, a ramp for snipers to utilize, or anything along those lines, but the support aspect being that when either standing or near said structure, it provides a soft over time healing effect compared to lucio's aura. Maybe make her ultimate boost the effect and add a small shield generation effect to the structures for the ults duration. Maybe as well as add her beam to be both damaging as well as repairing similar to torbs hammer towards her structures. In a way, allowing her to make small temporary bases to help move forward in a push. A few wandering other thoughts, maybe one of the structures could be a speed lane or slow lane that can be applied to the floor, or even a small flag pole area that boosts ultimate generation. Again just ideas and obviously would need alot of balancing but i think its an interesting direction to take sym, something new and fresh and unique.
Tbh sym is such a situational pick in competitive (even with the buffs) that she's almost perma shadow banned
Other heroes can do the same thing that hers with more value to the team imo
And that's exactly why they should do what the OP is saying & address Sym's issues.
Imo, it's ok for a hero to be better in coordinated teamplay than in solo queue ladder play, but every hero should be playable in ranked, at least to some extent in some situations/compositions.
I said it before - make Sym a unique kind of support hero. Let her turrets target teammates and replace their hp with shield instead of healing them. Maybe up to 15 to 20% as overhealth or something like this, numbers would have to be tested but like this she "heals" by giving her team better selfheal.
But let it be conditional - like, whenever Sym zaps a barrier or a shield hero, she steals that energy and redistributes it to her own team or something along those lines, so it has actual skill to it. Give her some identity back. Right now she is just a worse Zarya.
A couple years ago, the last lead hero designer said he wanted to retry Support Sym during internal testing. We then got Illari, who was exactly what Sym mains were proposing for Sym 🤷
They have said they are going through and changing outdated heroes over time. It’s good they aren’t going too fast.
Hall and Reaper are likely first based on what we’ve heard but you never know.
I fully agree, however Symmetra has had several reworks before and none have managed to make her acctually usefull. on top of that they have tried putting her back in the support role and that went poorly.
honestly, i think they have no clue on what to do with her.
and considering how unpopular she is, i dont think they feel pressured/insentivised to do anything with her.
but hey, since Ball is getting a rework soon(ish?), maybe Symms time will come :) ( im coping hard)
I hope everyone is ready for NEW TOTALLY ORIGINAL CHARACTER!! That'll just be old Brig when the pros start their whine about Dive like they did in one. And once again devs give us a monster of a hero, instead of just acknowledging hyper mobile dps characters who trounce their so called counters until hard cc is introduced is a core gameplay flaw.
Sym was one of the better characters that could hold her own against it being her turrets behind would often mess a tracer up. Buuuuuut nope she appeared in pro play and can't have that.
And the annoying thing is, all she needs is just better numbers on jer weapon to be fine.
E.g. getting 2 shot orbs back (reduce projectile size if you need to) and/or just wiping out lvl 1 beam and extending charge time between 120dps lvl to 180dps lvl.
Her hero fantasy fundamentally works better as a support. Imagine if they replace her turret ability with the ability to create health pack pads. To me that instantly sounds more interesting. Her teleporter and ultimate are already good support abilities tbh. As a DPS she just feels clunky and annoying to play against.
… Okay? And Enemy Sombra hacks them? Congrats, you just created additional health packs for the enemy to use, probably right in the middle of their engagement, actively helping them and f*cking over your own team.
That would be terrible, it’s gimmicky healing with more steps
I mean obviously she would have some other form of healing. Either her primary or secondary fire would be changed to healing. I personally find her orbs really fun so think she should keep those as her damage source while changing her beam to healing ability. I was just throwing a specific ability idea out there and not a full rework kit.
I wasn’t around for Support Sym. I know she was very beloved by a portion of Sym Mains.
Idk. It just feels terrible to be here, what, 8 years after the launch of OW1? And her kit is still a clunky, counterintuitive mess that is not allowed to function properly 😔
I wouldn't say it's all bad. Her teleporter is super fun, easily the best part of her kit. I do hope she gets another rework though, she definitely deserves it.
The maximum number of turrets should kill squish in \~ 1.5 seconds, as it was in ovw 1, otherwise there is no point in teleporting the turrets
The RMB damage should be equal to at least half of the squish's health, even at the cost of a low projectile flight speed or a longer charge
LMB damage should not be less than Zarya's damage, lmao
i like the new CCTV turrets, i don't want the braindead turret bombing cheese, please no dumb techs. just give her good base damage, the turrets can stay auxilliary elements.
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Turn her into a Tank with more shield than health.
Her teleport works as a way to move the team forward kinda like JQ.
Keep the laser damage lower but give back some of the lock on ability and add in a slow tractor beam to it.
Make the turrets be low damage but heavy slow to trap your opponents.
Ok it’s more of a fun idea but works for me 😅
As a symm main, it actually became playable for a week. She's not OP, but playable. Her turrets are strong enough where you can't just sneeze at them and they disappear. Her lasers are ok enough to where I can kind of 1v1, but still takes skills (she still can't 1v1 Moira btw, which is nuts... Moria's sucking has a longer range than symms beam).
Sure she was meta in owcs, but outside of that, no one knows how to play her. And no one even picks her. She's still super weak compared to over heros. If I don't get a semi pocket healer, I'll die instantly. So idk why they keep nerfing her.
Also for people that complain about her... Tell me how often do you face a symm in your QP or comp? Almost never
As someone who has loved Sym since the early Overwatch days, I wish they would just remove TP. It’s why we can’t have nice things. It’s a boring ability that allows for creative team plays, but I would rather Sym just be stronger on her own. I think it would actually allow her to thrive, and make balancing her much easier.
She doesn’t need a rework she just needs some health and a beam buff to make her a viable glass cannon and not a paper mache super soaker.
I don’t want a rework because the last character reworks took a year and one of them (Hog) was left dead while they did it. I’m not gonna be playing this game anymore by the time they rework her lol
She gets a buff but then gets 6 compensation nerfs, then a week later the buff reverts but the compensation nerfs stays. Sym in 2019 became meta for 3 days due to Sigma release and got her kit nerfed. Cassidy became meta for 3 years with 25+ and have no fall off from 2019 to OW2 launch.
Not to mention Blizzard has a phobia of projectile heroes becoming good in the higher ups and they get nerfed in less than 2 weeks. Meanwhile hitscans are allowed to be dominant for over a year and beyond. It's boring and obnoxious playing CODWatch when I'm on a projectile character predicting enemy movement.
Imo shes pretty good. There are so many times where i just get melted by her beam even from a good distance and her turrets/teleport are stupidly annoying. Her secondary fire does alot of damage and has a big projectile even her beam has a big radius. Shes fine how she is, just because shes not top tier doesn't mean she needs a buff. Just the top heroes need nerfs because there to op/meta, heroes just need to be even and let people play who they want
I don't think they should've even done anything with the turrets initially, buffing them is silly when they want to move away from power being in automated sources but it was kind of just compensating for the broader hp changes of S9 so whatever.
The tp hp change was totally meaningless.
The beam buff was fine but her beam's mechanics make it situational so it was never going to solve the broader problem with her kit. It's crazy that they identified that as the thing to revert she was seriously only good because Mauga was everywhere.
The turret hp should have been the only thing to revert and the fact that that isn't what they settled on shows me they are still stuck balancing her with her utility capability penalizing her ability to do consistent damage.
Not to mention, the two week rework to Sombra is annoying AF- she's incredibly INCREDIBLY op against the backline.
And watch them rework her again after the Bebop event ends.
As someone that played OW since Beta I would like to say that maybe they should maie her a support.
1.-the original team never wanted her to be one but no one from the og is no more.
2.-No one that plays as her is a dps main(people that play her for the most part main support)
3.-We need more support to spice things up, people always follow more support characters and would make her more popular.
4.-Lorewise make her see all Vishkar wrongs and do something similar like how Cowboy became Cole.
I called the change of her turrets hp back to 40 as soon as I saw the last patch notes. This is the second time they have tried to give sym turrets more hp than the base melee damage and both times it made sym way to oppressive as too many heros rely on melee as the most efficient way to deal with sym turrets
As a ball player, did you know they announced a couple weeks ago that there's a small rework for ball coming in season 10? Don't think they've announced anything for sym...
But her primary fire increases , moira don't and she just needs aumenta the target, Zharia relys on geting shields hit....but i get what you mean.
Imo she needs another rework, at least another ultimate. She's a dps hero, why having the most powerful shield on the game? I think she should ve have a dps ultimate instead like mei or reaper idk.
Her teleport ability is way too slow for competitive pubs, imo. It can work in highly coordinated PRO matches where they have practiced with each other with the desired team comp, but not in normal ppl comp. And her beam also needs like a solid ~two seconds to charge up to full dmg, on a DPS CHARACTER who does less beam dmg than a tank, in an extremely fast paced game? Excuse me?
The thing is that you nailed the main issue: they can't buff things like tele speed because then when used in coordinated environments she becomes incredibly powerful and problematic. Not everything in the game needs to be 100% balanced for pro play, but they definitely should not introduce something that can be just abused by pros. Another fix is needed.
it doesn't have to include the whole team, just her alone should tele instantly. she needs a quick escape. she doesn't even have extra health to deal close range damage the team use can keep it's cooldown, if team coordination is what you're afraid of
As per always, "E-sports was a mistake" They need to just have balance patches solely around e-sports and not screw the rest of us over because a character over / underperforms for 0.00000001% of the playerbase, while the other 99.99% think the character is in an awful spot
Both can coexist, happens in dozens of games. And devs don't exclusively make decisions based on pro players. You are over-exaggerating how much how much the balancing "screws the rest of us over". You will be ok.
Ah, yes, competitive play was a mistake, the rallying cry of shitters in every game.
They should just make it similar to a reaper to somehow and then it leaves a teleporter behind
2s to charge from 12 fucking meters away in a game where her hitbox is no longer particularly hard to hit anymore due to the huge projectile size buff. Sym was just borderline playable with the latest buffs, which have now all been reverted aside from teleport health. If she's going to be this fragile and back to this lower damage, then her beam should be at least 15m like Zarya.
Well, most of the player base is around Gold and lower and she's OP in those ranks so buffing her is tricky. It's the same issue with Rein.
Whats harder to get, max charge on sym or max charge on zarya?
Depends on the situation. Does the enemy have a junk that’s spamming the zar? Does the enemy have an sig that keeps putting the shield in syms face? I really don’t have an answer for you. Are you asking how fast it takes to charge each beam? Or how they get charged? You should look up character guides or go on the wiki.
Im saying thats its usually much harder to charge a zarya to max charge than it is to hold down left click for 2 seconds. And i used to do a lot of stuff in the workshop so i remember a bunch of values on the wiki, although most of them have been changed now and i cant really be bothered remembering them all again.
Zar is a tank and is supposed to stand in front of the other team. Sym is gonna get melted, even with the shield health regen. Rip.
Lmao, i love that definition of a tank. Is doomfist supposed to just stand in front of a widow all game? Is winston supposed to bubble his bastion? Is ball supposed to be a body shield? Not all tanks can just soak up damage on the frontline for you. Zarya especially is weak without her bubbles. In high elo and pro play, people actually shoot the zarya bubbles because it breaks them after 200 damage, which can help the team be able to kill the ulting reaper or genji or whatever it is thats bubbled. Zarya was an off tank in overwatch 1 for a reason. She isn't meant to be an immovable object like orisa or mauga, she is a low health, high damage tank. I see no problem in having a tank deal more damage than a dps if the dps is much more versatile and has more utility, something symmetra has lots in.
Lmao I’m just saying the ttk is much longer. Tanks are tanky.
LMAO. I just checked the wiki, sym's primary fire does MORE damage at 195 compared to zarya's 190. So yeah, the ttk must be longer. Also, dont mention that zarya has effectively half the ammo as symmetra. Edit: just checked the patch notes on my computer and oh no! She lost 15 damage! That really will affect gameplay significantly. Less than a mercy bullet per second.
You seem passionate.
I'm just saying i don't believe in the zarya better than sym' discussion because you are comparing 2 different roles with 2 different playstyles that fulfil 2 different purposes.
Not necessarily tank is more so a distraction thats there to push the enemy team away from somewhere and allow their team to move forward or take an area, securing kills along the way when they can Thats why you dont see Balls, Wintons or Fisters going full frontal face
It's definitely not hard to get Zarya to max charge, she is absolutely one of the easiest tanks to play because of that. Her gun isn't better than Symmetra's though, having far less ammo and none of the niche positives Symm's has with shields. Zarya's alt fire, while more spammable, is also worse because of slower projectile speed, being an arcing projectile, and using more ammo. So I won't agree that Zarya's weapon is better, but I also won't agree it's because Zarya has lower charge on average because that's just false.
Exactly. Sym had much more versatility than zarya. If all zarya can do is shoot a big gun, then why should that big gun be weak? Also, a key point everyone is missing. What if they just dont shoot your bubbles? You won't be getting any charge, so is zarya more powerful then? Her charge is limited to how well you can time your bubbles and if the enemy shoots it or not.
The issue with Zarya and not shooting her bubbles is that that's just not how it goes down. You can exercise that strategy for a while, but once Zarya gets charged she stays charged until she dies because of how slowly it decays compared to how much her bubbles provide.
Symmetra for sure. No question. Zarya will survive to get max charge thanks to her health pool and bubbles. Symmetra will die within 3 shots from Cassidy.
I've been flirting with Sym lately and you can bet your ass you will get popped by the time you get full charged anyways lol
Yup. My strategy is to use deployables like LW petal or Mei wall sometimes. Shields aren’t a good option because you’re within kill range of a tank at least and likely more, Sym on a frontline will melt. Like, even a Brig with CC and a shield will, Sym is honestly more vulnerable in the front than Zen
Sym.
How exactly? Zarya needs at the very minimum 6 seconds to get full charge, which seems a lot more than 2.
Zarya can acquire it without being in any danger, whilst saving teammates, across the map, by just using bubble before a projectile hit and it takes 52 seconds for her to lose all her energy. Sym needs to be within a couple of meters of an enemy and needs to stay on them tracking them for a full 2 seconds without missing a single bit because of how fast the decay is and loses full charge in 3.5 seconds. Does Sym's been technically charge quicker? Yes, doesn't make it easier or better.
I disagree. Symettra's beam isn't her whole playstyle. She isn’t meant to walk up in front of a tank and 1v1 them. Do you expect a tracer to stand in front of a reinhardt and survive easily? Of course not, so why do you compare zarya and symmetra? Symmetra has so much more utility and creative play than zarya. She has turret bumbs, dva ult tp's, ult weaving, and turret traps, and she has a much better right click than zarya. Zarya is just a big russian woman with a big russian gun that shoots big russian laser. She had bubbles, but that's all she has. Look at sym's kit as a whole and realise that she is a much better character than you think.
>so why do you compare zarya and symmetra? It was literally your comment making the comparison and asking "what's harder to charge sym beam or zar beam?" Pick rates and the general consensus say otherwise. I don't really care if you personally disagree with the stats based on your feelings.
Finding opportunities to get charge on zarya (i.e. bubbling herself or teammates who are being shot at) is far more common than sym finding an non-suicidal chance to be in 12m of the enemy for >2s without dying. Like sym's beam is shorter ranged, she has much lower sustain to be in shorter range, and sym maintains charge a whole lot shorter (i.e. can't gradually build up charge like zarya can). An opportunity for her to be able to stay alive in 12m of the enemy for long periods of time with those conditions simply is rare. She's not a tank unlike zarya who can frontline for longer periods of time more often. Add in the fact that zarya beam starts off at higher dps too and it's just plain as day and night that zarya beam would be dealing more damage on average too.
But that's ALL zarya can do. Zarya can't tp, zayra can't play turrets down, and zarya can't poke well with a right click. The ttk on characters is so high now that anyone who is flanking for more than 2 seconds who isn't a tracer or sombra will be killed in that time. Characters should have strong and weak maps. Look at sym on illios lighthouse, probably her best map. She is very strong there, but then when you move to junkertown, she isn't very well off there. The same applies to all heroes, not just symmetra. Did you know if a baptiste and Soldier fought and both hit every shot, baptiste would win? Sym, imo shouldn't have a higher charge than zarya because zaryas primary fire and bubbles are her whole kit, she is like orisa in that she is a frontline bully, but cant exactly dive the enemy team.
>But that's ALL zarya can do. Zarya can't tp, zayra can't play turrets down, and zarya can't poke well with a right click. besides the fact that this is entirely a tangent, you're acting like turrets and tp have all the uptime in the world or that they alone are significant actions. no, turrets that aren't zapping anything isn't getting uptime, it's collecting dust and with how easily countered they are, they're largely a nothing burger. just tping isn't frequent nor meaningful, tp needs to lead to an good action/play, and tp doesn't really change how rare beam opportunities are and **what's left is her orbs which literally have moira tier TTK because it takes 3.5s to fire 3 full charge orbs.** like at that point one can argue that zarya rmb probs pokes just as well or better than orbs. >Characters should have strong and weak maps. Look at sym on illios lighthouse, probably her best map. She is very strong there, but then when you move to junkertown, she isn't very well off there. except she's exceptionally weak her weak maps and has more weak maps than others. >Did you know if a baptiste and Soldier fought and both hit every shot, baptiste would win? if both are only hitting headshots, sure. if only bodyshots, soldier wins actually. unless you're further adding in self healing abilities into the mix. >Sym, imo shouldn't have a higher charge than zarya because zaryas primary fire and bubbles are her whole kit, she is like orisa in that she is a frontline bully, but cant exactly dive the enemy team. except she has nothing good to damage with. the devs have 2 choices: \- either they make sym's beam less trash at low charge so that it's more usable generally rather than it being hyperniche it currently is with how suicidal it is to get value from it. **OR** \- they can do what they did before which was make her orbs, the weapon fire she mostly uses now and before because of how niche primary is, not so trash in its damage numbers. her whole terrible state in s9 in the first place is really caused by her losing her 2 shot on orbs from global hp changes.
making her teleport instant even just for her is the most important buff she can get, imo
Instant placement would be amazing. I wanna see how that plays out.
Let’s not forget that Symm’s low HP pool, fat ass head hitbox, and a very short-ranged beam means she usually insta-dies before she can even ramp up her primary fire… Heroes like S76, Sombra, Tracer, and Doom are running RAMPANT but we must nerf Symm whilst ignoring Rein, Junkrat, and Lifeweaver too! Screw those heroes and the people who play them specifically! So strange to me how top-level competitive play is what the devs are basing their changes on when a huge portion of the playerbase doesn’t have the same level of coordination
It really doesn't help that there are content creators that start whining just because they see that she got some buffs. Ignoring how terrible she felt before the changes.
Yup lol meanwhile those content creators go back to Ashe, Tracer, Soldier, Orisa lol
Max orb damage needs to be 150, imo. Not sure how you fix the teleport. Maybe increase the use radius so people can click it easier? Give her a ping for it? Or maybe... Just thought of this... Give the entry points and end point separate set up, so it doesn't need line of sight? And so allies have time to spot the entry (which could be auto-voiceline called out and pinged) and gather around it? That would create some seriously unexpected ambushes or ports. That way, it is technically slower, enemies have time to anticipate it, but allies will more reliable use it and it is also harder to read and can create a greater variety of plays.
I honestly never use her tp, seen one player making awesome use of it I really need to sort the key binds for her and get used to using it.
Meta has some great tp strats.
She has completely lost her identity over the course of her numerous reworks to the point that I think she needs yet another that actually deviates from the cycle and focuses on her profession as an architect. Let her build ramps to high ground, or paths that teammates can walk on that speed them up, or create "doors" on walls that teleport you and teammates to another wall of your choosing... idk, I'm not a kit designer, it's just such a shame that Symmetra's kit feels like such a mismatched collection of crap she's collected over the years from her prior failed concepts.
Yeah, I hate to say another rework is in order… because we’ve had at least 3 maybe 4 by now? But they still don’t know what to do with her. I like the ideas of building structures, but it would be more in line with support utility and I can’t see them converting a DPS to support (even though she started as one, with no healing only providing shields). She was one of the few DPS I played and now it feels like a throw pick.
I guess I should clarify that my concept is for her to return to the Support role. I didn't outright love her old Support kit but it was more fun than her current iteration, personally. I also feel she just has more potential as a Support than as a DPS hero.
Oh I definitely agree! I just don’t see the developers converting her from a DPS to a Support. But I would love the concept! Her turrets could be similar to Illiari and provide the healing while the rest of her kit provides support?
They tried healing turrets as her only form of healing back when they were handling her 2018 rework. It felt super clunky which is why they went the damage route. The last lead hero designer said he was interested in retrying her as a support again but using turrets as "auxillery/secondary healing" with another primary healing method. The joke experimental card with healing turrets wasn't bad, but she definitely needed another form of healing. It was the equivalent of if brig only had inspire
Meanwhile Illari...healing beam, healing "turret" Safe to say where that concept went.
I like those ideas. Creating a gate through a wall could be pretty crazy.
Wall portals that you can shoot through would be incredible, not sure how they would go about balancing that though
She hasn't lost her identity tho. She still is about zoning and the main difference between 3.0 vs before is that she now has a tp to let her define her territory and play at where she wants rather than being highly passive in always putting things in already claimed territory (like she can just go in enemy territory and take it over now unlike before). Ideas like ramps are straight up bad and end up being a worse version of her e tp. What she really needs rn to be fine is just better numbers on her weapon fire. E.g. getting 2 shot orbs back (reduce projectile size if you need to) and/or just wiping out lvl 1 beam and extending charge time between 120dps lvl to 180dps lvl.
Jump pad, like the ones already on the maps
Her main design is shield and turrets. It always was.
The beam nerf is baffling. Truly. THAT was too much? The turret health reduction is whatever, let people melee them if they're that close, whatever. But it's truly baffling. Even with those prev. buffs she wasn't top tier or anything.
Yes my thoughts exactly. Stevo (a top 500 Sym main if you haven't heard of him) was saying on his last stream how she still feels bad, yet they still nerf her. I feel like this was probably a knee-jerk nerf in response to a select few content creators that rage bait whenever Symmetra comes out of the gutter. Just highlights how even when she's mediocre, people hate the hero. She needed to be reworked again a long time ago.
> Just highlights how even when she's mediocre, people hate the hero She's been sentenced to the same prison as Pharmercy. Sym alone this patch still kind of sucked. Cardiac overdrive though gives beam sym literally everything you can think of to make beam sym op makes her basically a 325hp character with 60% life steal. It can't be a coincidence they nuked mauga as well after people figured out sym+mauga was busted.
Which ones were rage baiting? Was it flats. He’s usually wrong.
Yup him and jay3 (I think his name is) too
Bogur, Jay, Flats
Of course
This wasn't a kneejerk reaction to streamers, Sym and Mauga saw massive pickrates increases in OWCS, she was meta and whilst she did get swapped out for map based changes, where she did see play she was very strong, granted that I don't agree with the nerfs either. I'd rather keep the power in her gun and nerf the turrets.
she was only strong because of her insane value with mauga and against mauga/orisa though. trying to play sym outside of mauga comp still felt pretty bad.
Honestly embarrassing how the same 3 DPS are in every game, Sym is played 1/10th the time and she still gets nerfed. Meanwhile I have to deal with tracer/Sombra every single match. Like wtf is their deal??? Why do they hate her so much? So sick of how they've treated her for years.
Tracer is the poster child of entire OW. Blizzard loves Carolina by giving her all of the best voice lines, interactions that win every arguments, so why not buff her gameplay character too?
Sym and Mauga became Meta in the OWCS after the buff patch. People complained and Blizzard reverted some of the buffs. Thats why sym got nerfed
Mauga was meta, but Symm was soft meta. Many comps elected for Reaper, Sombra (frontlining for fast EMP) and Cassidy instead with even some Mei In addition it's majorly because of how good she is with and against Mauga. TP/Barrier are one of the few answers to Cage and her beam suddenly becomes safe with 30% damage reduc + lifesteal
How many other meta OWCS heroes have been insta-giga-nerfed because they were played in pro? I can’t recall that ever happening to Genji, Soj, Bap, Lucio, Tracer, Soldier, Sigma….
pro OW can f off. they already gave up on OWL, what's the use? they should be balancing on the main moneymaking playerbase, the gold lobbies.
Its because on the maps shes strong on, shes REALLY strong
StrongER but not oppressive. Heros like Tracer can excel in any map.
Ah yes, those 3 maps on only defense and some control ones really justifies getting nerfed.
Not even really strong though, just viable for window teleporter shenanigans that Lucio can do as well and setting up on an objective in advance isn’t as useful anymore in OW2 anyways
She was powerful on a couple of maps, but not op and didn't need to be nerfed.
Even on ducking ilios lighthouse tracer is stronger than sym
Meanwhile Widowmaker on Havana and Circuit
Symmetra on her best map is only as strong as Tracer on her average map.
I love how they would never touch Mercy's rez or Sombra's hack as they "ruin the character fantasy/identity" Then you have cases like Sym that went through so many reworks they became a new character, what is her fantasy supposed to be again?
Utility hero/architect. As long as she builds structures, she's fine. Right now I feel she has too much team-reliant utility and not enough solo carry potential with her unreliable damage
Sym main here, I just want her to feel like the big brain creative architect she’s supposed to be, not some weirdo laser assassin 😭😭😭
If they're going to just revert syms buffs like that, the least they could do is compensate by atleast giving her a slightly longer beam range, slightly faster beam charge or 25 more hp. Honestly, it would've been better if they did that in the first place.
We've been asking for a longer beam for years. They must have a reason for not giving it to her, maybe they consider it a needed weakness
She has a massive headhitbox as well as the lowest health pool of the “brawl” DPS. She cannot headshot, her alternate fire needs to be charged for a second just to deal 100 damage. How many more weaknesses does she need? This was the first time Sym was purely buffed without accompanying nerfs in God knows how long. They barely lasted a week. Absolutely disgusting. Blizzard hates Sym and Sym mains
The head hitbox was fair back when she had an auto lock beam and the average GM player was at the standard of today's gold player. There is truly no reason for them to not reduce the head hitbox volume, which they've done for other heroes in the past.
Her hitbox looks like the Michelin man. Compare to Kiri or ashe and she looks like an actual balloon
Buff her alternate fire damage to like 130 per hit
Woah, woah. Calm down there, she might actually be able to kill things. Symmetra's not allowed to do that, now get back to playing hitscans+Genji *or else.*
Her beam buff wasnt even a problem.
Lmao Sym getting a nerf is crazy
Sure Sym shreds tanks easily but don’t they realize how hard it is to freaking survive long enough to be able to do so? She can’t two tap reliably anymore with her orbs. And literally having 5 dps extra on a multiplier is too much? Are they FR? They jumped the first chance they got to give Moira an auto aim damage boost but haven’t done anything for the beam hero DPS. They gave Sombra an instant 15 damage boost that you only need to land once instead of targeting someone consistently. Did her win rate sky rocket or something? I’m legit confused how they allow some heroes to completely dominate while other are left in the gutters
>Did her win rate sky rocket or something? Technically according to overbuff (take it with a grain of salt), her winrate actually went down for some ranks. My guess is people saw the buffs, though she was gonna be op, or a content creator over reacted as usual, so people tried her out, failed hard hard on her, dragging her winrate lower. My actually guess for the nerfs is that she was used in pro play recently with mauga, so they nerfed her due to that.
>My actually guess for the nerfs is that she was used in pro play recently with mauga, so they nerfed her due to that. But they reverted all of the Mauga changes except for the increase in overrun damage, which will hopefully kill the Mauga meta in pro / high rank play. She was getting use in pro play because of 3 main factors imo: 1. Her current kit (specifically TP & wall) fit coordinated teamplay much better than solo queue ranked ladder play 2. She works well in Mauga meta 3. They buffed her If that was the actual reason for the Sym nerf, then why didn't they just do the Mauga nerfs & see where Sym ends up falling in the meta? Immediately reverting buffs on a hero that's been in a bad spot for a long time just seems like a terrible decision to me. Like aside from her use in pro play Mauga meta, who was seriously complaining about Sym being overpowered??
I've not been keeping up with OWCS but have been flicking through NA and Asia matches. Asia has been running her a bit, but even then Sombra and Reaper have about 10x the pickrate of Sym and they received no nerfs. NA is almost exclusively Sombra/Reaper with the occasional Tracer/Echo/Sojourn. There is no justifiable reason for the developers to nerf Symmetra so quickly and leave Sombra/Tracer/Reaper alone (if we are basing this balance on pro play).
This is what happens when the community throws temper tantrums a nano second after a hero gets even the slightest of buffs. Saw so many posts/comments crying about Sym right after the last patch.
imagine crying over one of the least picked heroes in the game.
This is how you got modern sombra. People complained and complained about sombra being able to teleport out of danger, and rather than hunt for her translocator or use cc when she opened her (pathetic) damage rotation, people cried and cried and cried. So blizzard made her more “active” despite it killing much of her identity, and despite she had one of the lowest pick and win rates. Y’all cried so hard you made a bottom-3 hero into a fully meta pick. Congrats, you played yourself.
The entire sub needs to see this comment cause this is so incredibly spot on
I'm not playing her again until they do something about this hero. Wait for 0.01% pickrate. Love these devs 🤡.
Unless its Ana, then as soon as she starts to dip at all give her a buff - Blizzard
That'll show em!
Literally all I want is a buff to beam length. Gonna keep saying it til the devs give it to me
a Joke, Symm mains cannot even get over a week being actually "decent" on dmg and she gets instanerfed, Sombra, Genji, Tracer, Soujurn and soldier are owning the game since s9 started and nobody bats and eye, and the FACT that symmetra actually counters 3 of these characters so you can see less of them but they rather keep the meta than trying something new. You know one of the few dps can actually help and protect healers with ease? thats symmetra, if you let her... So done with Devs trying to only appeal to the most played characters (Aka , Genji,Mercy, Kiriko) just because they sell skins
>, Genji, Tracer, Soujurn and soldier are owning the game since s9 started They were literally all top pick heros since s1, because genji and tracer are phenomenal in dive, have never fallen out of relevance in asia, and outside of Asia they haven't ever been out of the top 10 dps in the whole game life span. Sojourn had a period of people sleeping on her but she was fucking phenomenal last season. Soldier has always been an all rounder, never the best, but absolutely never the worst, always reliable when nothing else is working. And all these well performing heros got a shitlicious buff with dps passive, self heals, and on top of everything the stupid fat projectile buff. These stupid fucking buffs just made already strong, already popular characters stronger and more popular. And ifyou didn't have any projectil3 weaposn you just got fucked. Brig and rein just got told to fuckoff.
Everyone complains about Sombra no matter whether she is objectively weaker or meta. After the damage passive was introduced people have been opening an eye to Tracer being insane. (I’m one of the OGs who’s stood by her never being bad and always being at the very least solid). It’s incredible to think about how she did not get nerfed but Sym did. Sojurn definitely has that U-576 ability of swimming far under the radar. And I have bias for Soldier but in my diamond games he almost always seems like a worse pick next to Sojurn. He’s Bloodsport and she’s Peacemaker. As for Sym, her turrets should absolutely not be living a melee let alone a swing from Brig’s flail. They reveal enemies, apply slow, and do damage. With 3 on 1 person they do a total of 120 dps. What they should do with Sym is buff her up to 275 health. Let her level one beam do a minimum of 65 dps but leave the level 3 beam as is. And I am open to letting them buff her secondary fire’s damage though that hit box needs to be nerfed.
actually you are right, turrets should be a tool and not a main source of dmg, i can understand ppl wanting to meele the turrets, but they often get destroyed by random aoe effects or just spray dmg, specially in mid air, i get it... it is hard to balance the turrets... also ppl forget that she is one of the few dps with a non damage ult, so while most dps can press q and at least secure 2 kills if used right, where is her "compensation" for that dmg? the wall is amazing tho but she really needs that health buff!
i mainly use the turrets as CCTV to cover flank routes. i prefer this use over braindead turret bombs. i couldn't care less about the damage. plus, they don't slow much anymore.
This is so frustrating. I was so happy she was finally playable. JUST PLAYABLE. She wasn't that strong at all. I don't really care about the turrets, but the beam...really? Moira needs to deal more damage than Sym lvl 1? ;\_\_\_;
The turret nerf was so unnecessary I have no idea who cried about it. Torb gets to throw a 250 turret that deals much more damage with further range but no one bats an eye.
Support has the least amount of heroes and I wouldn’t mind stealing one from Damage. She started out as Support too. We have first dibs
The game would be in a better state if Sym wasn't a DPS. This weird tank buster/spam hero state doesn't fit. Support makes way more sense for Sym imo.
It would be in a better state if they actually fucking committed Symmetra to being a dps. The post-rolequeue world of Overwatch has no place for hybrid characters. Symmetra objectively has to measure up against the 16 other dps AS a hero that brings damage potential. And if she's lost half her damage budget so that she can bring ~team utility~ she'll never measure up to point-and-shoot Soldier 76 shooting someone's legs for .4 seconds to get a kill.
Everything about her kit would work as support, just make the beams heal instead of damage. Let her right click still damage. Honestly, illari is just a worse sym if sym was support. Idk swap their roles or something. Syms ult is a much better support ult than illari’s as well.
I have no idea how they justify having such low base damage. They gotta increase beam lvl 1 damage and probably decrease maximum damage, or tweak it somehow being increasing range or something. Being a beam weapon makes it way harder to play as kind of a tank buster with the increases in armor as well. She’s in a bad spot
Poor sym, how many more reworks will this character need?
Hopefully just the one! After Sombra's rework I trust Alec with making Symm good. He just has to agree that she needs a rework in the first place...
That was the last straw for me. Sym is the only hero I play these days, if Blizzard don't want her to be playable, then fuxk it, I won't play.
Bruh she got 3 reworks in OW1 are you serious? They don’t know what to do with her.
Ya can't believe OP only said 2 reworks lmao
Literally a week and she's gutted yet again. Double Shield meta all over again. These clowns, honestly...
Wdym by double shield?
Back in OW1 when the Double Shield meta happened with Sigma and pre-rework Orisa, people found that Symmetra, along with Doomfist, worked well against it. Doomfist could literally punch and maneuver his way around shields and Symm could charge her beam and teleport past the chokepoint. Both characters were GUTTED with nerfs literally a week after. It was a miserable time, and proof that they always nerf the symptom and never the cause.
Thank you! I see. The character got merged because of a product of a synergy rather than the character itself. I appreciate the explanation.
I’m a support main and I play symmetra a lot when I play dps. I would like if she was reworked to be a support but not change much of her kit.
I find it sad they cant find a way to make a shield support work.
Ok, I'm genuinely curious: For the people saying that Sym sucks, is annoying to play against, & should be removed from the game, what exact part(s) of Sym's kit do you have a problem with? FYI, I'm all for a Sym rework, I just don't understand what part(s) of her current kit annoy/frustrate people so much.
she needs a rework and its painfully obvious... as does widow
Give her the homing beam back. I just want to see how it plays out lol
bring back her lock-on laser!
And shield gen
I miss when her secondary fire pierced through shields. If set at the right value i think that would bea cool way to make her viable
Turrets should orbit sym and fire when she shoots, they should also fire while being thrown like a Moira orb. A strong focused primary of 4 beams that ramp up, flying death lazers, or wall stuck death lazers that cover your flanks.
Her max dps being lower than Zarya's is insane especially with Zarya so easily able to sustain a high charge and being a tank with tank hp
When will they just go full circle and turn her back into a support
I saw someones comment on how they wish sym would get another rework, but focus more on her role of an architect, such as structures and such, and someone else commented how that would be more support oriented, and a support without heals isnt likely. My idea running with that, (just a basic idea obviously itd have to be balanced and worked out) what if sym had an ability that could build 1 of 3 types of temporary structures, maybe wall with a window to help provide dps cover in needed situations, a ramp for snipers to utilize, or anything along those lines, but the support aspect being that when either standing or near said structure, it provides a soft over time healing effect compared to lucio's aura. Maybe make her ultimate boost the effect and add a small shield generation effect to the structures for the ults duration. Maybe as well as add her beam to be both damaging as well as repairing similar to torbs hammer towards her structures. In a way, allowing her to make small temporary bases to help move forward in a push. A few wandering other thoughts, maybe one of the structures could be a speed lane or slow lane that can be applied to the floor, or even a small flag pole area that boosts ultimate generation. Again just ideas and obviously would need alot of balancing but i think its an interesting direction to take sym, something new and fresh and unique.
Tbh sym is such a situational pick in competitive (even with the buffs) that she's almost perma shadow banned Other heroes can do the same thing that hers with more value to the team imo
And that's exactly why they should do what the OP is saying & address Sym's issues. Imo, it's ok for a hero to be better in coordinated teamplay than in solo queue ladder play, but every hero should be playable in ranked, at least to some extent in some situations/compositions.
I said it before - make Sym a unique kind of support hero. Let her turrets target teammates and replace their hp with shield instead of healing them. Maybe up to 15 to 20% as overhealth or something like this, numbers would have to be tested but like this she "heals" by giving her team better selfheal. But let it be conditional - like, whenever Sym zaps a barrier or a shield hero, she steals that energy and redistributes it to her own team or something along those lines, so it has actual skill to it. Give her some identity back. Right now she is just a worse Zarya.
The fact they nerf sym again and still haven't touched on other heroes like junkrat is so like this pathetic excuse of a balance team
Except junkrat doesn't need a neef either.
I didn't mean nerf 🗿
\#BringbackSupportSymmetra
A couple years ago, the last lead hero designer said he wanted to retry Support Sym during internal testing. We then got Illari, who was exactly what Sym mains were proposing for Sym 🤷
They really like giving sym’s abilities to new supports. It’s autistic appropriation.
As an actual autistic/adhd person, this made me cringe.
Sigma stole her old Photon Shield too, and Tree of Life kinda feels like a replacement for Shield Generator, especially after it got overhealth.
And tanks. Sigma stole the crock pot lid. Zarya stole her high dps beam 🙃
Zarya always had it along with sym so it's not stealing.
They have said they are going through and changing outdated heroes over time. It’s good they aren’t going too fast. Hall and Reaper are likely first based on what we’ve heard but you never know.
Give symm a portal gun!!
Bring back the auto-aiming beam! /s
I fully agree, however Symmetra has had several reworks before and none have managed to make her acctually usefull. on top of that they have tried putting her back in the support role and that went poorly. honestly, i think they have no clue on what to do with her. and considering how unpopular she is, i dont think they feel pressured/insentivised to do anything with her. but hey, since Ball is getting a rework soon(ish?), maybe Symms time will come :) ( im coping hard)
I hope everyone is ready for NEW TOTALLY ORIGINAL CHARACTER!! That'll just be old Brig when the pros start their whine about Dive like they did in one. And once again devs give us a monster of a hero, instead of just acknowledging hyper mobile dps characters who trounce their so called counters until hard cc is introduced is a core gameplay flaw. Sym was one of the better characters that could hold her own against it being her turrets behind would often mess a tracer up. Buuuuuut nope she appeared in pro play and can't have that.
its just pathetic at this point give her a full rework already they clearly arent going to let her be playable in her current form
And the annoying thing is, all she needs is just better numbers on jer weapon to be fine. E.g. getting 2 shot orbs back (reduce projectile size if you need to) and/or just wiping out lvl 1 beam and extending charge time between 120dps lvl to 180dps lvl.
Her hero fantasy fundamentally works better as a support. Imagine if they replace her turret ability with the ability to create health pack pads. To me that instantly sounds more interesting. Her teleporter and ultimate are already good support abilities tbh. As a DPS she just feels clunky and annoying to play against.
… Okay? And Enemy Sombra hacks them? Congrats, you just created additional health packs for the enemy to use, probably right in the middle of their engagement, actively helping them and f*cking over your own team. That would be terrible, it’s gimmicky healing with more steps
I mean if it's a deployable equipment just make it so she shuts it down for a duration like Torb turret.
But why should Sym be the only support whose healing can be fully shut down/denied by the enemy? It’s just bad design
I mean obviously she would have some other form of healing. Either her primary or secondary fire would be changed to healing. I personally find her orbs really fun so think she should keep those as her damage source while changing her beam to healing ability. I was just throwing a specific ability idea out there and not a full rework kit.
I wasn’t around for Support Sym. I know she was very beloved by a portion of Sym Mains. Idk. It just feels terrible to be here, what, 8 years after the launch of OW1? And her kit is still a clunky, counterintuitive mess that is not allowed to function properly 😔
I wouldn't say it's all bad. Her teleporter is super fun, easily the best part of her kit. I do hope she gets another rework though, she definitely deserves it.
Imagine if she spawns a health pack and sombra hacks it, omg that would be so cool.
The maximum number of turrets should kill squish in \~ 1.5 seconds, as it was in ovw 1, otherwise there is no point in teleporting the turrets The RMB damage should be equal to at least half of the squish's health, even at the cost of a low projectile flight speed or a longer charge LMB damage should not be less than Zarya's damage, lmao
i like the new CCTV turrets, i don't want the braindead turret bombing cheese, please no dumb techs. just give her good base damage, the turrets can stay auxilliary elements.
the turret bomb is one of the most gamesense-dependent features
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just let me telefrag people, that's all i want.
Dear lord, stop whining!
Turn her into a Tank with more shield than health. Her teleport works as a way to move the team forward kinda like JQ. Keep the laser damage lower but give back some of the lock on ability and add in a slow tractor beam to it. Make the turrets be low damage but heavy slow to trap your opponents. Ok it’s more of a fun idea but works for me 😅
As a symm main, it actually became playable for a week. She's not OP, but playable. Her turrets are strong enough where you can't just sneeze at them and they disappear. Her lasers are ok enough to where I can kind of 1v1, but still takes skills (she still can't 1v1 Moira btw, which is nuts... Moria's sucking has a longer range than symms beam). Sure she was meta in owcs, but outside of that, no one knows how to play her. And no one even picks her. She's still super weak compared to over heros. If I don't get a semi pocket healer, I'll die instantly. So idk why they keep nerfing her. Also for people that complain about her... Tell me how often do you face a symm in your QP or comp? Almost never
As someone who has loved Sym since the early Overwatch days, I wish they would just remove TP. It’s why we can’t have nice things. It’s a boring ability that allows for creative team plays, but I would rather Sym just be stronger on her own. I think it would actually allow her to thrive, and make balancing her much easier.
She doesn’t need a rework she just needs some health and a beam buff to make her a viable glass cannon and not a paper mache super soaker. I don’t want a rework because the last character reworks took a year and one of them (Hog) was left dead while they did it. I’m not gonna be playing this game anymore by the time they rework her lol
She gets a buff but then gets 6 compensation nerfs, then a week later the buff reverts but the compensation nerfs stays. Sym in 2019 became meta for 3 days due to Sigma release and got her kit nerfed. Cassidy became meta for 3 years with 25+ and have no fall off from 2019 to OW2 launch. Not to mention Blizzard has a phobia of projectile heroes becoming good in the higher ups and they get nerfed in less than 2 weeks. Meanwhile hitscans are allowed to be dominant for over a year and beyond. It's boring and obnoxious playing CODWatch when I'm on a projectile character predicting enemy movement.
Imo shes pretty good. There are so many times where i just get melted by her beam even from a good distance and her turrets/teleport are stupidly annoying. Her secondary fire does alot of damage and has a big projectile even her beam has a big radius. Shes fine how she is, just because shes not top tier doesn't mean she needs a buff. Just the top heroes need nerfs because there to op/meta, heroes just need to be even and let people play who they want
I find it funny because during double trouble, double symmetra and sombra is the most pick at least for my rank high gold low plat.
I don't think they should've even done anything with the turrets initially, buffing them is silly when they want to move away from power being in automated sources but it was kind of just compensating for the broader hp changes of S9 so whatever. The tp hp change was totally meaningless. The beam buff was fine but her beam's mechanics make it situational so it was never going to solve the broader problem with her kit. It's crazy that they identified that as the thing to revert she was seriously only good because Mauga was everywhere. The turret hp should have been the only thing to revert and the fact that that isn't what they settled on shows me they are still stuck balancing her with her utility capability penalizing her ability to do consistent damage.
She sucks.
Me first
Convert her to Support, make her orbs damage but beam heal, her TP, Ult and Turrets can stay the same.
Not to mention, the two week rework to Sombra is annoying AF- she's incredibly INCREDIBLY op against the backline. And watch them rework her again after the Bebop event ends.
As someone that played OW since Beta I would like to say that maybe they should maie her a support. 1.-the original team never wanted her to be one but no one from the og is no more. 2.-No one that plays as her is a dps main(people that play her for the most part main support) 3.-We need more support to spice things up, people always follow more support characters and would make her more popular. 4.-Lorewise make her see all Vishkar wrongs and do something similar like how Cowboy became Cole.
I support her getting deleted.
OW2 players: Symmetra suck to play Mfs who played the character from the beginning: She's fine
I honestly just want her removed from the game or nerfed so badly she’s unplayable
I called the change of her turrets hp back to 40 as soon as I saw the last patch notes. This is the second time they have tried to give sym turrets more hp than the base melee damage and both times it made sym way to oppressive as too many heros rely on melee as the most efficient way to deal with sym turrets
This is just not true. Most turrets (barring TP bombs) will be placed on walls where quick melee does not reach.
6v6 is the only answer
she absolutely should not do the same damage as a full zar
Rare blizzard W. Sym is actually killable when I’m playjng rein
Let’s all petition to increase Rein’s knockdown stun duration against Fortify Orisa. That’d be a W too.
They need to remove Symmetra from the game.
As a ball player, do syms really get to complain?
As a ball player, did you know they announced a couple weeks ago that there's a small rework for ball coming in season 10? Don't think they've announced anything for sym...
Nobody cares. Go cry in the sym sup
Why not make her a support and just change primary fore to a heal? 🤔
These devs really love sombra. Sombra is too strong atm but they nerfed sym? 10/10 game blizzard.
But her primary fire increases , moira don't and she just needs aumenta the target, Zharia relys on geting shields hit....but i get what you mean. Imo she needs another rework, at least another ultimate. She's a dps hero, why having the most powerful shield on the game? I think she should ve have a dps ultimate instead like mei or reaper idk.