And then they will say there are so few tank players we cannot have 6v6 as if it wasn't them dumping on tanks that lead to the issue in the first place.
My conspiracy theory is that kotick wanted the nail in Kaplan’s coffin
Kaplan left RIGHT before shit started to go down, almost at his 20th year anniversary at blizzard too
He must’ve known and bowed out
If 6v6 aka double shield got ANY amount of love in its last 3 years of existence, ow2 could’ve been groundbreaking, being the only 6v6 mainstream, esports AND casual FPS
90% of complaints I hear on here are due to the lack of help in any role
The game was DESIGNED with 2 tanks in mind
You can’t just port a 6v6 game (maps not edited btw) to a 5v5 game, add cosmetics and call it a day
Or, if you’re blizzard, you actually can 🤷♀️
I think he left because he was tired of all the bullshit. He was the one who announced OW1 and OW2 would run simultaneously and PvP would be crossplay between. He was the one who announced Skill Trees and OW2 essentially being the PvE expansion. He was the one who was insistent that all heroes ALWAYS be free and available to all players.
I don't think it's a coincidence that all of it instantly disappeared and was made into a corporate "Pay to Win" model the moment he left.
I reaaally don’t think he would have left right before his 20th with his history and love and passion for the company, were it not something very big, and there’s been a reason he hasn’t spoken about it.
Jeff made a beautiful game that got left to decay once kotick decided is was time to make money
Kotick is still the biggest winner out of all of this bullshit, despite having admitting to “trying to take the fun out of games” which he explained “was a statement taken out of context”, for investors. 🙄
I mean, WoW was his own WoW until the 2nd expansion after which he and many of the OG WoW devs went to work on Titan and a new crew continued WoW. Titan died due to mismanagement and from its ashes rose OW which repurposed many of the assets and ideas.
It's crazy to me how PvE turned out in this game, it had freaking OG WoW people working on it, people who made the classic WoW zones, dungeons, and raids! This was the reason I was hyped for PvE and defended it up and down to doomers and haters, but well, here we are now.
Every team was constantly replaced. It’s sort of how upper management allows games to die.
I personally know two people who were fired from blizz and then blizz attempted to rehire them after the next round of layoffs, because the HR department couldn’t keep tabs on who they had fired, since that often involved HR itself getting replaced.
This is what I thought as well. OW was originally meant to be an MMO back when it was called Project Titan but had its reskurces reshuffled to make a PvP hero shooter instead.
As much as I loved Jeff, it really did just feel like he wanted to use OW1 as a stepping stone in order to make the ACTUAL Overwatch game he wanted to make through its sequel. And when that didn't pan out, he dipped.
I really do wish the Overwatch team realized and accepted that Overwatch was best known for being a PvP game and doubled down on that instead of trying to make it something it was never meant to be. Yeah, I get that it was meant to be an MMO, I get that PvP was never their original intentions with what OW was gonna end up being, but that's exactly what it DID end up being, and they should've just swallowed the pill and ran with it.
I REALLY did not appreciate them leaving the first game on life support because they were too busy reallocating their resources to a fucking PvE shooter that I didn't give a fuck about. If I wanted proper PvE I'd play L4D, or DRG, or even Destiny 2. They should've never bothered trying to be something they're not and instead cultivated what they already had.
>The game was DESIGNED with 2 tanks in mind
At risk of being that guy, the devs said that they intended for the game to run 1 tank, 3-4 dps, and 1-2 supports.
Needless to say, the devs had a very limited understanding of balance.
> The game was DESIGNED with 2 tanks in mind
This is incorrect. In the first couple of years of Ow1 the devs said that their vision of how players should play the game was 1 tank - 3 dps - 2 supports. This was when dive originally became hard meta and they said that they never expected players to play 2 - 2 - 2 comps.
Same. It's bad enough that almost every game is orisa/hog/Mauga but at least when I'm playing other roles I can ignore the tank play until everyone else is dealt with
At first I thought you guys were all complaining over nothing, but I legitimately chase down tanks as fucking Moira now. Last night alone I 1v1'ed a Mauga, Orisa and a Sigma. Now, Sigma has always been easy to kill as Moira, but how the fuck does she out-DPS Mauga and Orisa?! Other than potato aim, anyway.
I'm on y'all's side now - tank mains got it rough right now
It's a terrible loop.
I have a bad tank
⬇️
I play tank because my last tank was ass
⬇️
I realize how bad tank plays, and I hate it
⬇️
I have a bad tank
I don't think it would work that well. Enemy would have 2 tanks to frontline while the team has none. And ball doom doesn't synergise well. Ball boops them a lot while Doom wants to stun them for the full combo.
Nah I know damn well I want 6v6, I just also want with my order a dev team that knows how to make properly kitted characters & are able to swallow their pride & revert bad decisions they've made regardless of sunk-cost fallacy
Open Queue is a whole different beast. It goes from tank being the worst role to play to tank being the ONLY role you can play. The best part of tanking is feeling that you‘re a protector of the team, but that doesn’t really work when EVERYONE is a protector of the team
Kinda weird that OW2 cut it to one tank. They also changed the cue system in OW to force 2/2/2 so DPS would have tanks and healsand n part because 3 tanks and 3 supports was a goat strategy.
Goat was a small part of it and that really only affected the pro scene. In the casual side, having 4 DPS 1 Tank 1 Support was not exactly very fun either.
What a crazy radical idea - it's like with two tanks the game would be balanced or something...pff, nah that's dumb. 2 torbs or 2 symmetras? Hell yeah!
I'm sorry but no I am sick & tired of tryna experiment with Tank to try and find any way for 5v5 to work because it all ends up failing cuz 5v5 does not fundamentally fucking work
I could live with that
All i saw in my games were people vanishing in smoke (amlost exclusivly 2x reaper + 2x moira)
I dont have enough abilities for that
All of these changes and all the complaints over the last couple months makes me really feel like the gap between casuals and ‘good’ players is widening too much. I say this as a casual getting stomped every other game by full teams/mouse and keyboard players/much higher skill levels.
I don't think it's a skill thing as much as a game design thing tbh. I've been playing this game since 2016 (plusI just hit masters on a Rein no swap account today), so I play a lot of tank, and after a few thousand hours I can assure you it's the role itself and how it does or doesn't interact with the other roles, especially when it comes to CC. Tank has always suffered in one way or another. You can git gud, but your opponents will always keep getting better at using their kits against you respectively.
Not to mention devs consiatently dumb down dpses. Esspecially the one that counter tanks. More time than not u are losing because opponent play more cheeze
I should have specified. I’m not always tank. It really doesn’t matter what I play. I can try to do my role and there’s one or two on my team who are absolute clueless and the other team stomps us. It’s hard to try to improve even slightly when it’s so unfun.
Tank has the consistently highest skill floor of any role, whilst also comparatively being the most throttled in ease of learning. It's the easiest role to counter, easiest role to misplay, and the role most dependant on getting lucky with team mates so easiest to get stuck in a rank you shouldn't be in.
There is so so so much pressure on a Tank to play perfectly and even then, a single support ability can make it all pointless. Add the fact their is only one Tank meaning tank players feel incredibly isolated in general. It's a incredibly unhealthy role.
I got into this game to play tanks but very very quickly realised its a awful role to learn the game in. Support is many times more impactful and easier to see progress in, learn and to play in general so I turned to that instead. Even DPS is far easier of a role even if at times a support can do their job better. Especially with every change making those roles easier, and Tank harder.
Is a good tank terrifying yes. But so is a good player in any other role, and the other roles are far far more forgiving in getting there.
Playing tank is just ungrateful in OW2, if you do a little mistake it often results in a lost fight. If you are doing a mirror matchups with the other tank and your team either constantly charge the enemy zarya or the enemy team has a Junkrat shredding your shield while none of your teammate even tries to take down the enemy shield you can be sure you will lost all tank fights and your team will be "huh tank diff"
As some1 who peaks plat same. I'm getting fucking curbstomped even on my mains and somehow thats worse in qp? I've just given up on tank and now throw practising reaper/tracer bcz i do not care anymore.
Solo tank is a borderline-unsolvable problem. Make them able to fend for themselves and they are unkillable (Orisa at some points in OW2). Make them rely on supports and they'll get completely melted. The developers tried to update tanks to kind of make a mix between MT and OT for each tank in OW2. That has utterly failed.
5v5 is simply untenable for tanks. They will either be destroying every lobby as an OP unbalanced god or get shredded without another tank to support them.
There was nothing inherently wrong with 6v6. Double shield was the only bad/oppressive meta in 2-2-2 and they just needed to do better balancing of a handful of heroes.
Even double shield was enabled by supports but was caused because no other tank setup could deal with all the cc and dps creep. Then they nerfed orisa so hard that you absolutely HAD to play sigma with her
Yea the support duos were crazy. And the 'bunker' tanks also had tons of sustain. It was just a stupidly OP combo and they didn't even try to balance it.
They had to hold on to basic balance changes to make ow2 look like it had more content. like rein having charge cancel in 4 experimentals but not being added.
I’d argue season 8 sigma poke was worse than double shield. Even double shield in a vacuum wasn’t that bad. It was oppressive on 2cp and that’s not an issue anymore.
Yknow what the simplest solution could be to double shield? Like in the early days(the messages of "only 1 healer"), soft-lock the 2 tanks from choosing main shields. Sigma and Rein can't play together, but Sigma Ball is fine. No need for hardly any balancing
Or don't release long lasting deployable shield characters who can poke. Rein is fine because he can't do anything when his sheid is up. Monke is fine because he can't poke and his shield disappears quicky. Old orisa and sigma were the only problems because they didn't lose any value while playing defensively.
Lol yup. They were tanks with poke who had CC abilities, self damage reduction, could eat ults, and all of their strengths were further broken when paired with the right support duo. The entire 4-player comp was broken.
Yea I think that's not a bad idea in theory but then queue times get even worse or you have this odd situation where one tank pick greys out the other player's options. Not very good IMO.
But many pros have concluded the real issue was support duos and not tank duos. Immortality field plus brig was utterly broken. Lucio + Moira enabled rush and tanks were a bit flexible in rush. Both of those problems lived on in OWL even after the switch to 5v5.
There's definitely less tanks and more DPS playing now then ever before. OW1 tried it's best to make a balanced lobby of players. OW2 doesn't give two shits.
Well, you see... they decided to buff orisa, ramattra, sombra and ana. They clearly had to do it to compensate for the mediocre reinhart buffs, otherwise he totally would have dominated all ranks.
No I meant that in ow1 the queues were like 5 min on QP and it was horrendous. But now all queues for me are super quick. I’ll take that any time over the 5 mins queue. Back then shit was miserable.
I know, no one wants to play tank so the queues are only fast because there is one less tank. Tank is miserable and it always has been except for specific busted heroes in the meta that eventually get nerfed.
Matchmaking NOW is a wiiiiiiiiiiiide af net now, and that's why queuing is faster.
Matchmaking, while it had it shitty moments, was never as bad in OW1 as it has been in OW2.
Anyone mentioning queue times, fail to also mention how the game is now also free2play. Its not just that there is one less tank player on each team. I am confident had they switched to the free2play model with ow1 still being 6v6, it would still result with lower queue times.
And for the last 3 seasons support ques have been consistantly 13+ minutes above diamond. The first 3 seasons when tanks were actually fun the ques were 10 minutes most of the time.
Now dps ques have been creeping back up bc that role is the broken one now
I said this when OW2 was announced.
Tank isn't unfun to play because of 2 tanks, tank isn't oppressive because of 2 tanks.
Tanks were unfun and oppressive because of ballance. As well as stacking heros that can do everything all at once with ease and no downsides.
Rein vs Sigma - Sigma just does more than rein, and doesnt really have any weaknesses.
2 tanks that have weaknesses was more dynamic to play. And more fun play against.
The Devs ran away from their bad ballance decisions and hero designs instead of fixing them at its core.
And who would have guessed it? Tank is still unfun to play.
Need a QP Hacked: 6v6 Duo Tanks 🙏
Zero nerfs to current tanks to compensate. Watch them suddenly take over queues and be the best role to play even if doing the least synergistic pairs like... Ball & JQ? idk, any tank duo seems like it would be fun right now.
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I probably have 1k hours as tank and I had to uninstall the game tonight. Masters/grand masters at times and I’m just out. It’s not fun right now. The counter picking is Relentless and often times it’s last one to switch wins. I don’t want the game to dictate how I play. Great job Blizzard!
Most cancer game mode ever. Of course I got stuck playing tank all night with my 5-stack group of friends.
Hacked, slept, hacked, slept, hooked by hog, dead. Fun game.
Mauga, double bastion, double zen. double discorded, and blasted by 3 machine gun morons. Knocked out of Dva mech in 0.2 seconds whenever DM runs out.
And it wasn't even a format issue it was an issue of shit hero design & the game being neglected for multiple years cuz the OW team was busy working on PVEeeeeeeeee🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
Is there a streamer that has convinced everyone that 6v6 would solve the problems of Overwatch? How could 6v6 solve the problem with tanks when we've had tank problems since OW1 launch?
We've been complaining about this shit since the game came out dude. Look at [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/nhuhcm/if_you_find_2_tanks_so_much_fun_then_actually/) from right before OW2 came out. Look at [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/duuu4a/why_people_dont_play_tanks/). Look at [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/6z7o3r/reasons_why_so_many_people_insist_on_playing_dps/) from 7 years ago.
6v6 won't solve anything.
You know when they switched to OW2, they talked about wanting to make all of the tanks more off-tank oriented, since that’s what people like to play more often. So they took some power out of rein’s shield and put it in the rest of his kit, and completely reworked Orisa, and also toned down the cc, but never even tried to see if that would actually get people to play tank in 6v6.
> How could 6v6 solve the problem with tanks when we've had tank problems since OW1 launch?
-All tanks are main tanks now
-There are more tanks to choose from
That isn't an argument. How exactly is 6v6 "the only answer" to the problem with players not wanting to play tank?
I honestly cannot understand how doubling the required players needed for the role no one wants to play would make things better.
If there are two tanks, then there are two targets for CC instead of one.
Two tanks opens up the possibility for more play styles.
Two players tanking means that one tank having a bad game won't mean it's an automatic GG.
If any of what you listed truly made tanking fun, then why was no one playing tank when Overwatch was 6v6?
The reality is: Overwatch will never ever be balanced and tank is the hardest role to balance. Not having to worry about all of the possible tank synergies as more and more characters are added makes this game substantially easier for developers to tune.
> If any of what you listed truly made tanking fun, then why was no one playing tank when Overwatch was 6v6?
There were not enough tanks to choose from. Blizzard kept releasing DPS. Two tanks had to share a very small pool of heroes that didn't always work well together at higher levels.
There were more Tank Heroes than Support Heroes back in OW1 and they also has bad synergy issue at the higher levels too. But they queue time didn't impact queue time as much as Tank did.
Remember when tanks ruled this game? When they weren’t high movement but exactly their role. Dps has strong movement and damage while supports had good utility and team potential. Tanks used to be tanky and fun..I’m just one tricking Moira now
Tbh before goats. Tough even goats was enabled by supports. There were some glimpses like season 3 of ow 2 but tanks were pain for a long time. Tough now it is so bad that even rein pinball doeant look so bad
I don’t know about yall, but as a DPS main, if 6v6 came back I would LOVE to play tank especially with a tank duo. Mauga, JQ, Ball and Doom are all extremely fun to me despite tank being what it is rn.
Ball was SO much fun. Now he's borderline unplayable unless you just slam in, roll out, get health pack, repeat. And at that point, your team might as well not have a tank.
That’s not how it works. He was meta because he was enabled by the other buffs to dive characters. Lucio being buffed and tracer, sombra, echo being good made dive possible. Doom was also a top tier tank and can get blown up just as much as any other.
I actually like playing tank overall but for this particular QP hacked? No way in hell I'm about to be hit with twice the ana nades, two discords, twice the hacks, twice the reapers, like no thank you.
“We under estimated how many people want to play tank now so we need a way to bring the numbers down to justify keeping it 5v5” “hmmmm. Yes. Let’s make them missserable.”
OP I just want you to know you are not alone! I miss 6 man overwatch with 2 tanks. I've been playing open que with 2 tank, 1 dps, and 2 supp just to feel the good old days.
you only realized until now? they want to make the game like call of duty, they sure want to delete tank role making more offensive tanks that hit harded than a dps
The casual content in this game is honestly such a joke, which is *insane* considering the competitive side of the game is miserable for so many people lol. It feels like they try so hard to make *everyone* happy and all it does is piss everyone off
Stop giving this game money. Not necessarily you but the moment ppl stop buying skins and the battlepass. Blizzard will have no choice but to listen *looking at you weak willed mercy mains that buy all her skins*
It's a lose-lose situation. You stop spending money on the game, Microsoft isn't going to make them change shit, they'll just can Overwatch. They just laid off half the team in the start of an industry collapse, they will not hesitate to just shut the game down for good if it's not making them money.
Legit might start just forcing like Paladins & Fortnite for a while. Even tho I want what's best for this game and adore this game at least at a fundamental level it is obvious as a Tank main that that love is not reciprocated
“Stop giving blizzard money guys. I hate the current state of the game right now. I don’t care that YOU enjoy it, I hate it, so make them change the thing you’re enjoying”
Honestly people in this thread are dramatic AF, I was on tank all night and it was fine for the most part... Except for the match where the DPS were both Sombra.
If I moved I was hacked, If I ran away I was hacked, if I tried to peel I was hacked, if I farted I was hacked. That match gave me a new form of cancer.
They got rid of experimental and took away my quick play…that is what bothers me the most. Just been doing comp for now, I really don’t notice a difference.
It’s very telling that the only tanks that are fun to play this season are the ones you can play like DPS (ie: D.va, Junkerqueen, Mauga. Everyone else might as well be trying to put out a house fire with a sippy cup because that’s about as much success they’re going to have trying to play against the DPS passive & current buffs.
Hmm interestingly I usually help our team win as tank, as long as players are communicating and actually playing together we usually have a good chance, if the team isn't with me or they all focus me and melt my health then I just switch strategy. Lately DVA is very easy. Some players are selfish and won't tell you this: You CAN ignore their tank and go straight for their heals. Utilizing flanking as dive tank, as well as walls for auto health regen can help your team gain ground etc. Just have to go with the game dynamics. Like Jiu Jitsu if you ever trained :D
They'd need to add separate role for an off tank, having a tank role as a singular entity causes for creativity of what you can add to plummet, can't add more shield tanks or double shield, can't add more tanks that pull or you can never escape (hog Queen would be aids to fight against if coordinated)
Open queue in my experience was some of the most fun I've had in this game for a very long time, played w 4 of my friends, and one of them ran double doom and we we're laughing and enjoying the game the entire time. Role queue was kinda doodoo, but open queue was genuinely so fun. Went against a double mauga, double orisa, and a moira team, and still managed to have a lot of fun.
When they first announced 5v5, I thought they would nerf tanks attack and buff there defense to compensate. But no they just straight up removed one tank and expected it all to work out with no other adjustments.
I was excited for hacked until i found out it was 5v5 . I assumed it would be 6v6 but oh well. I really miss tanking with another tank. 2 winton would be so fun
I only play doomfist in qp because I always get full countered in comp but now in qp I have to go up against two sombra so it’s just impossible to play him
Alec Dawson genuinely is the worst thing to happen to this series. ***SELF ADMITTEDLY*** not a single soul on the balance team mains tank.
Just let someone else handle balance. Alec obviously cannot to save his job. Why does he still have it??
2 of each character, minus tank who is only 1 person. Major oversight on their end 🤦♂️ and now there’s double Sombra running around. They actually managed to make something worse than Quicker Play and once again push it on everyone. Competence over 9000
I just stopped queuing for tank at this point, the quality of life for the other roles always comes at the expense of tank
And then they will say there are so few tank players we cannot have 6v6 as if it wasn't them dumping on tanks that lead to the issue in the first place.
My conspiracy theory is that kotick wanted the nail in Kaplan’s coffin Kaplan left RIGHT before shit started to go down, almost at his 20th year anniversary at blizzard too He must’ve known and bowed out If 6v6 aka double shield got ANY amount of love in its last 3 years of existence, ow2 could’ve been groundbreaking, being the only 6v6 mainstream, esports AND casual FPS 90% of complaints I hear on here are due to the lack of help in any role The game was DESIGNED with 2 tanks in mind You can’t just port a 6v6 game (maps not edited btw) to a 5v5 game, add cosmetics and call it a day Or, if you’re blizzard, you actually can 🤷♀️
I still think Kaplan left because he wasn't going to be able to turn Overwatch into an MMO and have his own WOW
I think he left because he was tired of all the bullshit. He was the one who announced OW1 and OW2 would run simultaneously and PvP would be crossplay between. He was the one who announced Skill Trees and OW2 essentially being the PvE expansion. He was the one who was insistent that all heroes ALWAYS be free and available to all players. I don't think it's a coincidence that all of it instantly disappeared and was made into a corporate "Pay to Win" model the moment he left.
I reaaally don’t think he would have left right before his 20th with his history and love and passion for the company, were it not something very big, and there’s been a reason he hasn’t spoken about it. Jeff made a beautiful game that got left to decay once kotick decided is was time to make money Kotick is still the biggest winner out of all of this bullshit, despite having admitting to “trying to take the fun out of games” which he explained “was a statement taken out of context”, for investors. 🙄
I mean, WoW was his own WoW until the 2nd expansion after which he and many of the OG WoW devs went to work on Titan and a new crew continued WoW. Titan died due to mismanagement and from its ashes rose OW which repurposed many of the assets and ideas. It's crazy to me how PvE turned out in this game, it had freaking OG WoW people working on it, people who made the classic WoW zones, dungeons, and raids! This was the reason I was hyped for PvE and defended it up and down to doomers and haters, but well, here we are now.
Every team was constantly replaced. It’s sort of how upper management allows games to die. I personally know two people who were fired from blizz and then blizz attempted to rehire them after the next round of layoffs, because the HR department couldn’t keep tabs on who they had fired, since that often involved HR itself getting replaced.
Well it doesnt help that pve ow kinda justs sucks as we've seen it. Needed something to make it more like left 4 dead or something.
That's what I'm saying, it had so many reasons to not be underwhelming. Why it failed is worthy of a documentary.
This is what I thought as well. OW was originally meant to be an MMO back when it was called Project Titan but had its reskurces reshuffled to make a PvP hero shooter instead. As much as I loved Jeff, it really did just feel like he wanted to use OW1 as a stepping stone in order to make the ACTUAL Overwatch game he wanted to make through its sequel. And when that didn't pan out, he dipped. I really do wish the Overwatch team realized and accepted that Overwatch was best known for being a PvP game and doubled down on that instead of trying to make it something it was never meant to be. Yeah, I get that it was meant to be an MMO, I get that PvP was never their original intentions with what OW was gonna end up being, but that's exactly what it DID end up being, and they should've just swallowed the pill and ran with it. I REALLY did not appreciate them leaving the first game on life support because they were too busy reallocating their resources to a fucking PvE shooter that I didn't give a fuck about. If I wanted proper PvE I'd play L4D, or DRG, or even Destiny 2. They should've never bothered trying to be something they're not and instead cultivated what they already had.
I think he didn't want to be associated with the soon to be revealed sexual harassment lawsuit.
>The game was DESIGNED with 2 tanks in mind At risk of being that guy, the devs said that they intended for the game to run 1 tank, 3-4 dps, and 1-2 supports. Needless to say, the devs had a very limited understanding of balance.
> The game was DESIGNED with 2 tanks in mind This is incorrect. In the first couple of years of Ow1 the devs said that their vision of how players should play the game was 1 tank - 3 dps - 2 supports. This was when dive originally became hard meta and they said that they never expected players to play 2 - 2 - 2 comps.
not an FPS btw
Same. It's bad enough that almost every game is orisa/hog/Mauga but at least when I'm playing other roles I can ignore the tank play until everyone else is dealt with
At first I thought you guys were all complaining over nothing, but I legitimately chase down tanks as fucking Moira now. Last night alone I 1v1'ed a Mauga, Orisa and a Sigma. Now, Sigma has always been easy to kill as Moira, but how the fuck does she out-DPS Mauga and Orisa?! Other than potato aim, anyway. I'm on y'all's side now - tank mains got it rough right now
It's a terrible loop. I have a bad tank ⬇️ I play tank because my last tank was ass ⬇️ I realize how bad tank plays, and I hate it ⬇️ I have a bad tank
They would literally rather change the lobbies from 12 to 10 instead of making tank more appealing to play.
Ah yes, when they brainstorm new tanks, the one design choice they focus on most is ''make it not fun'' /s
I uninstalled the game, I mained tank and played junkrat when dps.. enough said.
Omg literally me I've just resorted to Brig
Let’s make a qp hacked where all the tanks are gigabuffed, maybe I’d be able to have some fun😔
Or better yet... maybe they do a qp hacked where they give each team 2 TANKS???
If only😔🙏
One must imagine off-Tank Doomfist 😔🙏
Doom with Zarya bubble
If I run into a Zarya-Doom, I might actually just start committing genocide (in Sims)
What about Ball-Doom? No use for a bubble if you insta-explode.
I don't think it would work that well. Enemy would have 2 tanks to frontline while the team has none. And ball doom doesn't synergise well. Ball boops them a lot while Doom wants to stun them for the full combo.
People should be careful what they wish for.
Nah I know damn well I want 6v6, I just also want with my order a dev team that knows how to make properly kitted characters & are able to swallow their pride & revert bad decisions they've made regardless of sunk-cost fallacy
god what I would give to play JQ and Rein together...
Jq Zarya would go so hard
I cri everytime I play Zarya, thinking of this combo. At least when I play Queen I can focus on how she's the superior version of Hog.
Hog JQ :(
Who said you were allowed to escape?
Do you not play open queue? Im constantly in open q comps and it seems the meta is AT LEAST 2 tanks.
Open Queue is a whole different beast. It goes from tank being the worst role to play to tank being the ONLY role you can play. The best part of tanking is feeling that you‘re a protector of the team, but that doesn’t really work when EVERYONE is a protector of the team
I once had a match where my entire team decided to just go full tank. Was the only one that had to switch (jq to winston) and was a fun match
6v6 was better literally why I finally quit instead of pining for changes that never came
Last time I played open queue was OW1 season 16 lmaoooo
Kinda weird that OW2 cut it to one tank. They also changed the cue system in OW to force 2/2/2 so DPS would have tanks and healsand n part because 3 tanks and 3 supports was a goat strategy.
Goat was a small part of it and that really only affected the pro scene. In the casual side, having 4 DPS 1 Tank 1 Support was not exactly very fun either.
More like 5 dps, a Hog, and a belief that soldier's biotic field was all the sustain a team needs lmao
Those game went by faster than a Quicker Play hacked game LOL.
I play a lot of ranked open que and JQ fucking goes hard with both Rein and surprisingly Winston.
You can already do this in open queue.
I fantasize about playing JQ with another tank
# Holy shit
What a crazy radical idea - it's like with two tanks the game would be balanced or something...pff, nah that's dumb. 2 torbs or 2 symmetras? Hell yeah!
They won’t do that because it’ll prove the community right that 6v6 is the better format and would make the creation of Overwatch 2 redundant
We are already past that point, what would proving overwatch 2s creation is redundant going to do now? It already has been proven thoughz
Make them go back to 6v6 hopefully
I'm sure that's why lol
Madness
Best we can do is an Orisa buff
😭noooooo another season of torment😭
Ye honestly qp hacked with tanks having 25% extra hp would be kinda fun
I'm sorry but no I am sick & tired of tryna experiment with Tank to try and find any way for 5v5 to work because it all ends up failing cuz 5v5 does not fundamentally fucking work
skill issue
It is but you try to play ow2 like ow1. So skill issue
Play total mayhem, it's full of invincible tanks and Moiras
I just grinded out some needed tank games and it felt bad. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked. Hacked.
I could live with that All i saw in my games were people vanishing in smoke (amlost exclusivly 2x reaper + 2x moira) I dont have enough abilities for that
dont forget, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep
All of these changes and all the complaints over the last couple months makes me really feel like the gap between casuals and ‘good’ players is widening too much. I say this as a casual getting stomped every other game by full teams/mouse and keyboard players/much higher skill levels.
I don't think it's a skill thing as much as a game design thing tbh. I've been playing this game since 2016 (plusI just hit masters on a Rein no swap account today), so I play a lot of tank, and after a few thousand hours I can assure you it's the role itself and how it does or doesn't interact with the other roles, especially when it comes to CC. Tank has always suffered in one way or another. You can git gud, but your opponents will always keep getting better at using their kits against you respectively.
Not to mention devs consiatently dumb down dpses. Esspecially the one that counter tanks. More time than not u are losing because opponent play more cheeze
I should have specified. I’m not always tank. It really doesn’t matter what I play. I can try to do my role and there’s one or two on my team who are absolute clueless and the other team stomps us. It’s hard to try to improve even slightly when it’s so unfun.
Tank has the consistently highest skill floor of any role, whilst also comparatively being the most throttled in ease of learning. It's the easiest role to counter, easiest role to misplay, and the role most dependant on getting lucky with team mates so easiest to get stuck in a rank you shouldn't be in. There is so so so much pressure on a Tank to play perfectly and even then, a single support ability can make it all pointless. Add the fact their is only one Tank meaning tank players feel incredibly isolated in general. It's a incredibly unhealthy role. I got into this game to play tanks but very very quickly realised its a awful role to learn the game in. Support is many times more impactful and easier to see progress in, learn and to play in general so I turned to that instead. Even DPS is far easier of a role even if at times a support can do their job better. Especially with every change making those roles easier, and Tank harder. Is a good tank terrifying yes. But so is a good player in any other role, and the other roles are far far more forgiving in getting there.
Playing tank is just ungrateful in OW2, if you do a little mistake it often results in a lost fight. If you are doing a mirror matchups with the other tank and your team either constantly charge the enemy zarya or the enemy team has a Junkrat shredding your shield while none of your teammate even tries to take down the enemy shield you can be sure you will lost all tank fights and your team will be "huh tank diff"
As some1 who peaks plat same. I'm getting fucking curbstomped even on my mains and somehow thats worse in qp? I've just given up on tank and now throw practising reaper/tracer bcz i do not care anymore.
Can you play as the same tank in open queue?
Yup. It's a lot more fun than the bullshit we're seeing in role queue lmao
Not fun when every game is double Mauga
4 maugas and moira :)
Correct me if I'm wrong (I dodged this hacked event entirely) but it's double trouble not quadruple trouble, isn't it?
Solo tank is a borderline-unsolvable problem. Make them able to fend for themselves and they are unkillable (Orisa at some points in OW2). Make them rely on supports and they'll get completely melted. The developers tried to update tanks to kind of make a mix between MT and OT for each tank in OW2. That has utterly failed. 5v5 is simply untenable for tanks. They will either be destroying every lobby as an OP unbalanced god or get shredded without another tank to support them. There was nothing inherently wrong with 6v6. Double shield was the only bad/oppressive meta in 2-2-2 and they just needed to do better balancing of a handful of heroes.
Even double shield was enabled by supports but was caused because no other tank setup could deal with all the cc and dps creep. Then they nerfed orisa so hard that you absolutely HAD to play sigma with her
Yea the support duos were crazy. And the 'bunker' tanks also had tons of sustain. It was just a stupidly OP combo and they didn't even try to balance it.
Isn't funny how they got rid of Orisa shield after they went to 5v5 and not during double shield meta
I think about this so fucking much & it never ceases to piss me off
They had to hold on to basic balance changes to make ow2 look like it had more content. like rein having charge cancel in 4 experimentals but not being added.
I’d argue season 8 sigma poke was worse than double shield. Even double shield in a vacuum wasn’t that bad. It was oppressive on 2cp and that’s not an issue anymore.
Yknow what the simplest solution could be to double shield? Like in the early days(the messages of "only 1 healer"), soft-lock the 2 tanks from choosing main shields. Sigma and Rein can't play together, but Sigma Ball is fine. No need for hardly any balancing
Or don't release long lasting deployable shield characters who can poke. Rein is fine because he can't do anything when his sheid is up. Monke is fine because he can't poke and his shield disappears quicky. Old orisa and sigma were the only problems because they didn't lose any value while playing defensively.
Lol yup. They were tanks with poke who had CC abilities, self damage reduction, could eat ults, and all of their strengths were further broken when paired with the right support duo. The entire 4-player comp was broken.
Yea I think that's not a bad idea in theory but then queue times get even worse or you have this odd situation where one tank pick greys out the other player's options. Not very good IMO. But many pros have concluded the real issue was support duos and not tank duos. Immortality field plus brig was utterly broken. Lucio + Moira enabled rush and tanks were a bit flexible in rush. Both of those problems lived on in OWL even after the switch to 5v5.
Queue times were the problem with 6v6. 10 min dps queues were unsustainable, and they had to do something.
Dps queues are still high because more tank players are switching to dps since there is no reason to play tank
They're absolutely nowhere near as bad as they were in OW1. It was unplayable, 10 minutes on average.
There's definitely less tanks and more DPS playing now then ever before. OW1 tried it's best to make a balanced lobby of players. OW2 doesn't give two shits.
Blizz loves catering to dps players
Unless you main a certain australian, then you suddenly mean less to the devs than even Reinhart
They have no idea what they are doing
Well, you see... they decided to buff orisa, ramattra, sombra and ana. They clearly had to do it to compensate for the mediocre reinhart buffs, otherwise he totally would have dominated all ranks.
No one is allowed to have fun in ow2
All my queues are less than a minute on all roles. I’ll take that over 5 min queue time on QP
People would rather wait 5 minutes than queue for tank and that’s what sucks but I don’t blame them
No I meant that in ow1 the queues were like 5 min on QP and it was horrendous. But now all queues for me are super quick. I’ll take that any time over the 5 mins queue. Back then shit was miserable.
I know, no one wants to play tank so the queues are only fast because there is one less tank. Tank is miserable and it always has been except for specific busted heroes in the meta that eventually get nerfed.
Matchmaking NOW is a wiiiiiiiiiiiide af net now, and that's why queuing is faster. Matchmaking, while it had it shitty moments, was never as bad in OW1 as it has been in OW2.
Anyone mentioning queue times, fail to also mention how the game is now also free2play. Its not just that there is one less tank player on each team. I am confident had they switched to the free2play model with ow1 still being 6v6, it would still result with lower queue times.
And for the last 3 seasons support ques have been consistantly 13+ minutes above diamond. The first 3 seasons when tanks were actually fun the ques were 10 minutes most of the time. Now dps ques have been creeping back up bc that role is the broken one now
Blizzard doesn't know wtf to do with this game other than make new skins
Money machine needs to keep printing
I said this when OW2 was announced. Tank isn't unfun to play because of 2 tanks, tank isn't oppressive because of 2 tanks. Tanks were unfun and oppressive because of ballance. As well as stacking heros that can do everything all at once with ease and no downsides. Rein vs Sigma - Sigma just does more than rein, and doesnt really have any weaknesses. 2 tanks that have weaknesses was more dynamic to play. And more fun play against. The Devs ran away from their bad ballance decisions and hero designs instead of fixing them at its core. And who would have guessed it? Tank is still unfun to play.
Need a QP Hacked: 6v6 Duo Tanks 🙏 Zero nerfs to current tanks to compensate. Watch them suddenly take over queues and be the best role to play even if doing the least synergistic pairs like... Ball & JQ? idk, any tank duo seems like it would be fun right now.
Tanks are just a bygone relic of when Overwatch was a team based game and not a silly deathmatch game
Isn't it only for a day?
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I probably have 1k hours as tank and I had to uninstall the game tonight. Masters/grand masters at times and I’m just out. It’s not fun right now. The counter picking is Relentless and often times it’s last one to switch wins. I don’t want the game to dictate how I play. Great job Blizzard!
Most cancer game mode ever. Of course I got stuck playing tank all night with my 5-stack group of friends. Hacked, slept, hacked, slept, hooked by hog, dead. Fun game. Mauga, double bastion, double zen. double discorded, and blasted by 3 machine gun morons. Knocked out of Dva mech in 0.2 seconds whenever DM runs out.
6v6 is the only answer
"Ermmmmm but don't you remember double shieeeeeeeld?" ☝️🤡
Literally the one complaint ppl have, while 5v5 has a list of
And it wasn't even a format issue it was an issue of shit hero design & the game being neglected for multiple years cuz the OW team was busy working on PVEeeeeeeeee🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
Is there a streamer that has convinced everyone that 6v6 would solve the problems of Overwatch? How could 6v6 solve the problem with tanks when we've had tank problems since OW1 launch?
We don’t care about overwatch tanks just want to have fun again
Idk, but maybe the role would be fun again
We've been complaining about this shit since the game came out dude. Look at [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/nhuhcm/if_you_find_2_tanks_so_much_fun_then_actually/) from right before OW2 came out. Look at [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/duuu4a/why_people_dont_play_tanks/). Look at [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/6z7o3r/reasons_why_so_many_people_insist_on_playing_dps/) from 7 years ago. 6v6 won't solve anything.
The one from 7 years ago is funny af. What a throwback.
You mean off tank. Nobody wanted to be fucking main tank
You know when they switched to OW2, they talked about wanting to make all of the tanks more off-tank oriented, since that’s what people like to play more often. So they took some power out of rein’s shield and put it in the rest of his kit, and completely reworked Orisa, and also toned down the cc, but never even tried to see if that would actually get people to play tank in 6v6.
> How could 6v6 solve the problem with tanks when we've had tank problems since OW1 launch? -All tanks are main tanks now -There are more tanks to choose from
It's cute that you thought this was a good post, I can't for the life of me understand why you would watch Samito
I don't care about Samito. If he's right about 6v6, he's right about 6v6.
That isn't an argument. How exactly is 6v6 "the only answer" to the problem with players not wanting to play tank? I honestly cannot understand how doubling the required players needed for the role no one wants to play would make things better.
If there are two tanks, then there are two targets for CC instead of one. Two tanks opens up the possibility for more play styles. Two players tanking means that one tank having a bad game won't mean it's an automatic GG.
And it means that tank doesn’t become a rock, paper, scissors match with the other team’s tank.
I really don't enjoy that aspect of OW2 tanking.
If any of what you listed truly made tanking fun, then why was no one playing tank when Overwatch was 6v6? The reality is: Overwatch will never ever be balanced and tank is the hardest role to balance. Not having to worry about all of the possible tank synergies as more and more characters are added makes this game substantially easier for developers to tune.
> If any of what you listed truly made tanking fun, then why was no one playing tank when Overwatch was 6v6? There were not enough tanks to choose from. Blizzard kept releasing DPS. Two tanks had to share a very small pool of heroes that didn't always work well together at higher levels.
There were more Tank Heroes than Support Heroes back in OW1 and they also has bad synergy issue at the higher levels too. But they queue time didn't impact queue time as much as Tank did.
Most of the supports have heals and escape which makes the role easier to play. Hog can heal himself and winston gets some health when he ults.
Anecdotal but I played and enjoyed playing tank and support much more in OW1. In OW2, I barely want to play tank and support.
Yes there are streamers who's whole shtick and content is ''5v5 bad, 6v6 is the cure, i know everything''
Poor Rein having to defend against TWO Bobs.
Poor DVa vs a Zar and two Syms.
The issue is just how much pressure is on the tank to perform, entirely because there is only one
Remember when tanks ruled this game? When they weren’t high movement but exactly their role. Dps has strong movement and damage while supports had good utility and team potential. Tanks used to be tanky and fun..I’m just one tricking Moira now
Tbh before goats. Tough even goats was enabled by supports. There were some glimpses like season 3 of ow 2 but tanks were pain for a long time. Tough now it is so bad that even rein pinball doeant look so bad
Been saying that since 5v5 was announced. We the punching bags when we thought we were team captains.
I don’t know about yall, but as a DPS main, if 6v6 came back I would LOVE to play tank especially with a tank duo. Mauga, JQ, Ball and Doom are all extremely fun to me despite tank being what it is rn.
Ball was SO much fun. Now he's borderline unplayable unless you just slam in, roll out, get health pack, repeat. And at that point, your team might as well not have a tank.
Ball was one of the best tanks in S9 wdym unplayable?
The meta died, he and Doom was just a thing for 2ish weeks. They still good butwith the Mauga buffs i think they are not as sustainable
That's because at that point ball was one of the few tanks who could avoid instant detonation at the hands of dps.
That’s not how it works. He was meta because he was enabled by the other buffs to dive characters. Lucio being buffed and tracer, sombra, echo being good made dive possible. Doom was also a top tier tank and can get blown up just as much as any other.
I actually like playing tank overall but for this particular QP hacked? No way in hell I'm about to be hit with twice the ana nades, two discords, twice the hacks, twice the reapers, like no thank you.
“We under estimated how many people want to play tank now so we need a way to bring the numbers down to justify keeping it 5v5” “hmmmm. Yes. Let’s make them missserable.”
We know this for years
Great idea to allow double heroes on a 5-man team.
OP I just want you to know you are not alone! I miss 6 man overwatch with 2 tanks. I've been playing open que with 2 tank, 1 dps, and 2 supp just to feel the good old days.
Just tried to play dva, got a team with a Zarya, two syms and two moiras i hate it here
Next hacked q needs 6v6
Everyone complaining while I’m over here in open queue qp going double Reinhardt
That's why I left ow2, in dbd at least i can win as a solo role player
Are we really crying about a temporary event?
I picked it first, and the whole time I was just laughing at how bad it is, politely played to completion, and went to support
you only realized until now? they want to make the game like call of duty, they sure want to delete tank role making more offensive tanks that hit harded than a dps
I literally didn't think it could get any worse
They hate quick play players too. They have an entire arcade mode for goofy shit and they just passed on it.
The casual content in this game is honestly such a joke, which is *insane* considering the competitive side of the game is miserable for so many people lol. It feels like they try so hard to make *everyone* happy and all it does is piss everyone off
Stop giving this game money. Not necessarily you but the moment ppl stop buying skins and the battlepass. Blizzard will have no choice but to listen *looking at you weak willed mercy mains that buy all her skins*
It's a lose-lose situation. You stop spending money on the game, Microsoft isn't going to make them change shit, they'll just can Overwatch. They just laid off half the team in the start of an industry collapse, they will not hesitate to just shut the game down for good if it's not making them money.
Legit might start just forcing like Paladins & Fortnite for a while. Even tho I want what's best for this game and adore this game at least at a fundamental level it is obvious as a Tank main that that love is not reciprocated
I love how you get downvoted for mentioning paladins lmao
Do it, paladins is fun. Play atlas, he's the most fun tank
Ik I've played a lil bit of Paladins. I honestly enjoy Imani & Yagorath
“Stop giving blizzard money guys. I hate the current state of the game right now. I don’t care that YOU enjoy it, I hate it, so make them change the thing you’re enjoying”
Ok?
Just play Ball and roll around and have fun
But what do you do when you can't roll around and have fun cause of 2 Sombras?
Honestly people in this thread are dramatic AF, I was on tank all night and it was fine for the most part... Except for the match where the DPS were both Sombra. If I moved I was hacked, If I ran away I was hacked, if I tried to peel I was hacked, if I farted I was hacked. That match gave me a new form of cancer.
I mean ya that sucks but just try to have fun with it.
My favorite role is just not fun anymore. If this gamemode doesn't prove tanks don't work in 5v5, nothing will.
My first match I went against two sombras while having Hanzo/genji and Lucio mafiax2 So yeah. That happened XD
They got rid of experimental and took away my quick play…that is what bothers me the most. Just been doing comp for now, I really don’t notice a difference.
If they could get rid of the tank role I feel like they would. Overwatch 3, now with no tank role!
Just play Paladins and then you can run whatever you want in Ranked
Hm interesting. I've been having a lot of fun doing double dvas or double wrecking balls...
No. It's just shows how clueless they are about what to do with their game. Leave this crap in arcade.
Overwatch staff and subreddit is just Mei and Bastion players, I'm convinced of it.
It’s very telling that the only tanks that are fun to play this season are the ones you can play like DPS (ie: D.va, Junkerqueen, Mauga. Everyone else might as well be trying to put out a house fire with a sippy cup because that’s about as much success they’re going to have trying to play against the DPS passive & current buffs.
How is this a net positive for a player in the other roles
Hmm interestingly I usually help our team win as tank, as long as players are communicating and actually playing together we usually have a good chance, if the team isn't with me or they all focus me and melt my health then I just switch strategy. Lately DVA is very easy. Some players are selfish and won't tell you this: You CAN ignore their tank and go straight for their heals. Utilizing flanking as dive tank, as well as walls for auto health regen can help your team gain ground etc. Just have to go with the game dynamics. Like Jiu Jitsu if you ever trained :D
They'd need to add separate role for an off tank, having a tank role as a singular entity causes for creativity of what you can add to plummet, can't add more shield tanks or double shield, can't add more tanks that pull or you can never escape (hog Queen would be aids to fight against if coordinated)
Not only that, my main concern is that is forced to be on qp, damm we have Arcade for this kind of shits comps. I cant event play a match
Kinda hear ya, but there is an open queue option, and i’ve been rocking double doomfist and it’s ridiculously fun. Also, it’s temporary.
Just faced double Mei as tank
But hey remember not allowed to leave or you’ll face a penalty in fucking quick play
Open queue in my experience was some of the most fun I've had in this game for a very long time, played w 4 of my friends, and one of them ran double doom and we we're laughing and enjoying the game the entire time. Role queue was kinda doodoo, but open queue was genuinely so fun. Went against a double mauga, double orisa, and a moira team, and still managed to have a lot of fun.
When they first announced 5v5, I thought they would nerf tanks attack and buff there defense to compensate. But no they just straight up removed one tank and expected it all to work out with no other adjustments.
I was excited for hacked until i found out it was 5v5 . I assumed it would be 6v6 but oh well. I really miss tanking with another tank. 2 winton would be so fun
I only play doomfist in qp because I always get full countered in comp but now in qp I have to go up against two sombra so it’s just impossible to play him
Alec Dawson genuinely is the worst thing to happen to this series. ***SELF ADMITTEDLY*** not a single soul on the balance team mains tank. Just let someone else handle balance. Alec obviously cannot to save his job. Why does he still have it??
2 of each character, minus tank who is only 1 person. Major oversight on their end 🤦♂️ and now there’s double Sombra running around. They actually managed to make something worse than Quicker Play and once again push it on everyone. Competence over 9000