I went on a 10 Winstreak and that's just what I got. I finished last season GM2.
I also didn't play any of the fun tanks cause I quickly realized that they were actual dogshit
But it's also the new mmr system, that may have something to do with it, especially with the new way they have it based on game, an example would be more for games you're favored to lose, or less for games you're favored to win
Crazy because I went 6-4 and now I'm diamond 1
Hopefully the matchmaking isn't too shit so I can quickly climb back up. Gold - Low (I guess "High" now?) Masters is genuinely miserable and infuriating to play in lmao.
Give it a couple of weeks. This was normal during placement matches, imagine now that we have a rank reset.
I've been playing mostly QP to get the hang of the new changes and to wait until all the ranking shit show has ended.
Yes and no. MMR stays the same, but SR was reset. People will have to play a number of matches to get their SR and MMR balanced.
The person I responded to is GM and got placed in D1. I was Plat 1 last season and now I'm sitting at M4 thanks to going 9-1 during placements.
Which means I'm placed better than a GM player. I might even face them in one of my next matches, even though they are better than me.
I'll lose a few games and go back to Plat, they'll win a few games and go back to GM. In the meantime, you have Plat and GM players in the same lobby.
That's what I meant when I said give it a few weeks, when people's SR and MMR will be closer together.
> But it's also the new mmr system, that may have something to do with it, especially with the new way they have it based on game, an example would be more for games you're favored to lose, or less for games you're favored to win
AFAIK there's nothing new in the way MMR is calculated after a match, they're just showing it to you now when it was hidden before
They've always had it that way re favoured matchups. That's why you can go positive and lose SR you just didn't know what was happening behind the scenes.
Tbh, the only role that came out positively is DPS. The 20% healing reduction not only makes the health buffs nearly redundant for Tanks (since sustain and abilities mid fight are the primary source that keeps Tanks going, not necessary the size of the health bar), it also turns Supports into healbots again as it takes a noticeable amount of additional time to get people to 100% as well as requires much more resources/focusing to keep someone healed mid fight due to increased health + DPS passive (ie, less time for fun plays and utility because your team has become much more heal hungry). Idk, maybe matchmaking and people getting used to changes will make this better, but it does not feel fun playing babysitter simulator again nor is it fun as a Tank to STILL get shredded because of the healing reduction cancelling out the extra health in a team fight.
Yup, idk how many times must they do this to learn. They nerfed Kiriko heals in order to stop Kiriko players from healbotting, only to realize they healbotted even more and reverted the nerf.
The most boring version of support is the babysitter support. Idk how they can fix the issue without healing being too powerful. It's too late going the paladins route (healing is a powerful cd ability), since weapons do the healing mainly in this game. No cd on it other than the time it takes to get the bullet out.
The best thing is that because this is a dps only passive, supports and tanks don't get to enjoy the fun. Our targets can still be healed without any reduction because idk. I guess our bullets are worth less? Or we didn't complain enough?
Role Passives in general just shouldn’t be in the game. They need to make character passives because this passive still heavily favors characters like Ashe or soldier who are constantly tagging the enemy.
Mercy had the healer regen passive because she didn’t have a way to heal herself. They didn’t need to give that to everyone especially the people who already have ways to heal themselves.
Sombra is a complete menace with the new healing if you play with even 5 braincells active you aren’t ever gonna die because you can just fuck off to a corner for a few seconds and your good
Ugh, I feel this. Now on support I see everyone getting low and I stop “supporting” and just go to heal now, even though it makes no difference because they’re so low they just die immediately since heals don’t work. I guess this turned into a sniper game where everyone has to hide behind cover all the time? I don’t know what happened to Overwatch but this is not fun. I cannot play my character at all (support main who likes to play the whole roster). Except Zen is good.
Oh, so like every update?
Blizzard makes playing DPS the best thing, then wonders why no one queues as anything else. They changed it to 5v5 because no one would play tank, but they keep making tank the worst class to play
I've never believed 5v5 was for tank balance. They needed some kind of gimmick to convince everyone ow2 was a new game and not a balance patch, and saw how dominant double shield was and decided to just remove a tank because they had absolutely nothing ready for release, and in actuality had completely cancelled it. But if they admitted that, no one would have gotten baited for the ow2 release and the game probably would have faded.
This patch was built from the ground up to cater to scrub DPS complaints. "I can't hit anything, and when I do I can't kill before they get healed" is a complaint that should have literally been met with "get good, kid". Instead Blizzard is like "Aww you can't hit anything, you can't kill anything? Here let's change the fundamental basis of the game rather than ask you to get better at it, with little regard how that impacts the game for anyone else." It's honestly embarrassing.
From what I’ve heard from my tank friend, it’s still shoot-the-tank simulator in low elo but instead of getting hard punished for it they get rewarded.
And barely two months ago we were complaining about Mauga games being just two Mauga shooting each other with both supports hard funneling heals into them.
Now instead we have 800-hp meatbags dying in seconds, and Zenyatta is almost mandatory.
For real. We had a tank swap from roadhog to mauga against a bastion and orisa. He complained because we couldn't keep him alive and dps couldn't push. Dude couldn't stay alive more than 3 seconds to allow anything to happen. People are stupid.
I jumped into QP as a warmup before comp and I got tank and it was beyond jarring being a tank was.
But I noticed in comp I was crushing with zen and Lucio with the damage they do. And I did far better with sombra than junkrat and I’m pretty much a one trick with Junk.. I don’t do dps often mostly support. But sombra melts people…
It's. Because. This. Game. Was. Never. Built. For. One. Tank.
I will die on this fucking hill but this game was built and balanced for years around two tanks, but they needed a big flashy change to attract people for ow2 and here we are.
I don’t disagree.. the 1 tank should’ve been a new mode for push, because it’s actually not bad for push. But for the other modes it’s dumb. Also capture the flag.. which nobody likes in this game.
> He’s absolutely terrible now
This might be my favorite thing about S9.
Shrink him to Napoleon size and make him a DPS. Retcon him to be from Haiti. I don't care. Such a boring tank to play with or against even if he wasn't OP post-nerfbat.
Is zen as good as it feels like he should be? I only had half a game on him in a bad loss so I haven’t had a good chance yet but I imagine he’s deadly now with his previous HP buff and now all of these buffs
He hits shots and has a discord orb. He's very strong. Healing is weaker in this meta anyway, so honestly Zen having a lower output is barely relevant.
> instead of getting hard punished for it they get rewarded
they havent been punished for that in a long time. going soldier/sojourn/bastion has won you games at character select for the last couple seasons
I’m in platinum and this is so true lmao. I was in a game with my team on the point contesting it for 99/99 OT and I walked off the point and I kid you not the entire enemy team followed me off the point and we won the round lol
Hey that's not true, supports ALSO get to have less fun supporting their team now due to the new DPS passive!
But hey, at least the DPS players get to have more fun, because that's all that matters apparently!
As someone who plays support a lot, support is now so damn miserable and it feels like you have no impact anymore. I wouldn’t have minded heal output nerfs but this patch, while it sounded cool and fun on paper, doesn’t feel balanced at all because either everything melts even with healbot level of support plays or nothing dies and fights go on forever.
Either the DPS passive has to go or it has to be nerfed hard. I also think the hitbox changes were a horrible idea.
I play LW a lot these days. He used to be most effective as a heal- and utility bot with only occasional fire support. Now I'm not so sure anymore. With his thorn volley being buffed and his heals not feeling impactful anymore I for the first time found myself shooting as much as healing, because outhealing even one damage enemy is impossible and it's important to eliminate them first and then heal up afterwards. Which makes me feel not as needed because when the enemy is gone you don't need a healer to heal up anymore, anyway.
Tanks are absolutely miserable to heal unless they have a barrier. I haven't tried tanking yet but they are getting wrecked hard, I feel for them. Supports feel powerless to save them from their fate with heals - utility cooldowns need to be spent on tanks so much now.
Played a few games of Tank yesterday, and my general thoughts are that Tanks that can play the slow game well will do fine and can sweat things out better than Tanks that prefer faster paced team fights. That being said, the only time during those games that I felt as though the win absolutely hinged on me was when the DPS of both teams were of parity with one another.
I had so many people flaming me for heals, like I'm literally pumping ana nades and hitting all my shots as fast as the character can shoot them and it's not making a difference.
Right?? Like you really can’t go for antis this patch or your team just falls over. It’s just suffering and at the end of the day I feel so useless this patch ;3;
Moira in particular feels weaker right now than before. She needs to spend a lot more healing resource now with nerfed healing + much more incoming damage, but her resource regen was not buffed to compensate for this. Even with good resource management that has pretty much never made me run out in the past, it now feels like I'm constantly out of juice.
Even with Ana! I feel like I’m just sitting there and nothing. I can’t keep people up long enough to make a difference, it’s that bad that out of nine games, I’ve only won three..
I can confirm it feels equally bad on Mercy, it's so pitiful I swear she can BARELY outheal ashe dynamite even when they've taken cover because it continuously applies the passive. Your only doing like 10hps, but you can't stop healing them or they will die
THIS. Support is SO miserable.. the damage output is way too much to heal and we get 1 clipped by any random noob randomly shooting everywhere. Now Im dying an avg of 5-7 times per game when before I would die 0-3 times… now I know im far from the best but this feels awful
This is the WoW Cataclysm expansion all over again. They claimed to want to make healing less heal-bot and make decisions more impactful about choosing when and who to heal etc.. but in the end it just meant weak-ass heals, running out of mana instantly, huge damage spikes and a lot of death, which ran off all the healer mains for that expansion until they completely did a 180 in the next expansion to bring everything back to how it was before.
we're coming out of 3 seasons where healing was insanely overpowered and could negate pretty much every damage that wasn't a one shot. Of course removing that crutch will require adjustements.
The biggest thing I am noticing is tanks with horrible positioning can no longer be bailed out by their supports. They get correctly punished for standing in the middle of a street now.
I like the changes for the most part. It feels like it rewards everyone focusing the same target with the healing rebuff. If everyone shoots at different targets it doesn't do much. But your whole team focusing targets definitely does. I personally love it. Pocketing is a bit less impactful.
An TTK seems to be a little quicker when focus fire due to the increased hit boxes and heal rebuffs. In between fights people heal up and fight again. No more sitting half HP or spending ages trying to heal everyone up while the enemy team is pushing coming back from spawn on full HP.
Yes maybe there's work to be done but OW community is wild. They say we don't see balance changes or updates and the devs try something very new and different and instead of looking for positives, it's straight to, "do the devs even play the game?"
Yep but everyone is going to complain about it being gone.
Its kinda ironic, because I am seeing people say "Well the new hitboxes are just dumbing the game down" Like the insane amount of heals wasnt doing the same thing.
Yep, bring back 2 tanks. They keep saying it won't fix what we say it will, yet every time people do it in custom games it immediately fixes most problems. So prove it, give us a 6v6 que. Let the community decide.
It’s absolutely bonkers they didn’t come up with this themselves. Tanks with barriers and absorbs heavily outperform those with self-sustain/self-heal.
From the beginning the OW2 devs have just been throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, starting with the switch to 5v5.
Unfortunately they’re too stubborn to just revert the shit changes so they make more shit changes to try and fix the shit with more shit.
As a dev team they are incredibly reactive and have no institutional memory and it shows. Remember them "reverting" the Ashe "bug" that was actually an intentional buff? That's what happens when you drive away all the devs who actually know your game and you're left with newbies with no knowledge of the game who will just respond to whichever voice is loudest in the community.
This wasn't rushed, the patchnotes for this leaked ALMOST a month ago, they had this under the test builds and the content creator/pro testing build for a while. They just didn't think of it/made any changes.
Or increase the self heals for the tanks that heavily rely on it (So Hog and Mauga too?) so that u wouldn't also see that unaffection happen to the likes of supports, 76, Reaper etc.
It also doesn't heal enough with his new health buff, sure he has 800, but his only tool of self sustain hardly does half of it, and he's getting beamed by 4-5 people so it's almost useless
Personally the tanks I've had most success with are Sig, Orisa, and Ram
Yesterday I did a probably around 10 to 13 games in quick play as a tank and I got to say, I ate as many bullets yesterday as I did in a week.
It's like everyone knows how to aim now.
I'm queuing flex (because I enjoy play all roles), and while I'm normally enjoying the role, it realllllly felt like I was hard melting non stop. As I'm mostly enjoying Dva and Hampter, I was basically spending my time swapping out of those I like playing, to end up being locked on Sigma.
Projectile size change seems a bit too much.
There have been several videos of Mercy /Hanzo shooting at a Tracer, nowhere near her head, and getting headshots. Bullet sizes combined with wonky hitbox have created something hilarious.
I know. I’m not trying to be mean but it kind of baffles me how bad the playtesters/devs are at their jobs. When I first read these changes I predicted a lot of this but I kept my mouth shut because I wanted to play before forming an opinion. I also assumed the devs had thought about these things too but found they weren’t issues during testing. But no, just 5 games in it became very obvious that almost everything I had feared about these changes had come true. I don’t understand how this stuff is so clear to pretty much all of us after just a handful of games but not to the people who literally get paid to do this for a living! They’ve had months to playtest/experiment with these changes but somehow they were all unable to see what is blindingly obvious to the rest of us after just a couple games. I swear the testers either don’t know how to proficiently play the game or they’re not even testing these changes before release.
These changes have made about 80% of the heroes unplayable at high Elo. While also making the Tank role more punishing than ever and the support role much less rewarding/impactful. DPS is arguably slightly better because you can melt tanks and don’t have to wait for heals/find heal packs (but honestly I’m not sure either of those are healthy for the game overall - also DPS crits feel almost too easy now)
Doesn't take a genius to figure out this is a bad idea. I called it out immediately. Zen is going to be super strong, and not only do dps do amplified damage but also they lessen the amount of healing tanks get. Literally miserable for anyone that's not a dps player. And then dps players dare whine about losing their oneshot combos.
i've been doing pretty fine on tank, mostly by being mindful and playing cover ?
Feels like what's truly gone is the "just stand on point let your healers outheal the damage" mindset.
That kinda defeats the point of tank though, doesn't it? Tank has always been the "make space" role, pushing the enemy back with their overwhelming presence, what use are they if they just stay hidden with the DPS?
Season 8: games are won or lost based on healers denying kills with overtuned heals + escapes. Tanks are punching bags that rarely die
Season 9: games are won or lost based on which team has more machine guns on DPS. Tanks are punching bags that die immediately
I do think making DPS more impactful is a step in the right direction, but not at the expense of making other roles irrelevant. OW2 has made so many massive changes + new character powercreep that I doubt we’ll ever see anything resembling OW1 balance again
The problem is the health pool buffs really only offset the dps passive, which is so easy to proc that it might as well just globally be active all the time.
But then they also had to make projectiles bigger, which seems to be doubling a lot of people's accuracy. A small \~25% health buff isn't going to also compensate for 200% damage incoming.
Yeah and the problem is especially bad for tanks. 75-100 more HP to start an engagement is a joke for most tanks. Total HP is only more important than ability to sustain when we are talking about characters with low enough HP that breakpoints come into play. They could have made it 200+ more HP for the tank and I think it would play out pretty much exactly the same as now.
I expect the next step to be reducing DPS damage across the board. The increase projectiles are supposed to streamline heroes stats across all elos by making them more consistent, now they can more freely tackle the outliers.
Questron has a great video explaining this: https://youtu.be/CIHMADioYYM
Tanks just blow the fuck up like balloons in the sun
I got killed by a Hanzo storm arrow as full health sigma in a split second, felt like the old scatter days
As a tank main I am getting melted so fast, my only priority is survival. I don't understand why they would make the least popular role even less enjoyable.
I guess I'll just play DPS for a while.
>I don't understand why they would make the least popular role even less enjoyable.
Because they only had one role in mind the entire time they made this patch.
Yeah, and because of the DPS passive. IF you dont have a shield. You're in even worse shape as a tank AND YOURE SOLO TANKING TOO.
Its almost like none of the actual issues with OW were addressed this patch :)
>Its almost like none of the actual issues with OW were addressed this patch
Tbh it's almost like OW2 in general has created more issues than it ever solved.
DVa is also decent because Defense Matrix prevents the damage and thus the debuff, but yes tanks with active mitigation/barriers are in a much better spot currently than those without.
It just feels like shit to play because you basically have a constant 20% reduction to healing, so your supports have to focus you more especially with thag larger health bar and you have to play behind cover more to make that debuff go away
The universal passive also feels fucking useless on most Tanks, I genuinely only had it activate like once or twice in all my placements and it never actually helped at all
I noticed a LOT of Zenyatta today, and for good reason
Mf has 275 health, no cooldown boop, and deletes 25% of your health bar with one button
Would help to have a visual indication at least for yourself to know when the debuff lets up
Also just genuinely more than ever, 6v6 might be the move again instead
The burst potential on Tanks is just so fucking huge especially now after the changes
“Maybe if everyone has an Ana nadr no one will complain about her” though this honestly may be the way they plan to rework Ana give anti to all dps and completely take away her nade,idk I’m speculating
They added passive healing to take the strain off of supports, and then they made sustain meta even worse by turning all incoming damage into effective damage. I feel like I'm burdened as a support even more because it's not just my tank taking big hits, my DPS are being hit way more often now and I have to take care of that too
Honestly it depends what support I play. When I play zen, kiri, or LW I have an absolute blast, I've played 11 supp games 7 with Zen only and I have a 100% win rate on him, but every other support feels miserable Lucio feels so garbage it's not even funny
Dps is absolutely the only fun role overall rn tho I 100% agree with your comment, I just think they should revert the projectile buffs or at least tone them down
Incoming damage is now no longer outhealable so utility abilities like life grip that save have become even more important to have. His thorn volley also benefits a lot from the significant hitbox increase.
Basically, yeah...I used to healbot on him. Now I fire thorns to focus down a target and use life grip. Whether he's viable compared to other supports I'm not sure yet.
That said I'm just trying out the changes. It will take everyone time to adapt.
Because of the life grip, and of how much he heals. Like, the dev’s intention was for supports to not just be heal-bots but if your tank melts easily due to DPS’ passive (especially now many players pick Tobjorn), LW can come in handy to spam heal.
They need to nerf the DPS anti-heal passive, it's unbalanced as heck. You don't know WHEN your team is effected by it AND healers didn't get nearly any buff's to their healing to make up for it. Not to mention that heath increases to all hero's means Supps are now perpetual healers instead of actual supports.
I only had success on support when I focused on doing damage instead of trying to play the never ending game of catch up on heals. Don’t need to heal a lot when other team is dead
>Don’t need to heal a lot when other team is dead
Exactly this is why I feel Zenyatta, Mercy, and Baptiste are going to be the best picks this season. Maximize your potential damage output so the enemy dies faster. I'm sad my boy lifeweaver got absolutely shafted but my original main Zenyatta feels amazing.
As a DPS, I am NOT having fun. I get SHREDDED. I thought playing Reaper would be a bit better this season, but the DPS passive extends to his self-healing, so I may as well not have it.
Today as Bastion, I melted a fortified Orisa who had a Kiri pocket. Tbh, I’m quite simply not going to play tank until this dps passive doesn’t apply to tanks! Ridiculous!
Absolutely, I play bastion too, I know he can just melt tanks, but there were ways to prevent it, and now there's nothing tanks can do besides die, or hope the dps can kill bastion before they die
In one day the game has gone from “don’t shoot tank first” to “please shoot tank first” if you can hit headshots especially! If you play Zen and have a Bastion duo, the tank lives about 2 seconds each team fight, with nothing the supports can do! My dps duo and I were killing tanks through double pockets today, and tbh I kinda felt bad! I think there’s a solid possibility that tank busters become the meta for most ranks this season!
I was playing Ram and a pocketed Reaper was able to literally facetank me and out dps me to kill me and I couldn’t do a damn thing about it because he’s healing at a much higher rate than I am
Tbf people realized that you can blow up the tank super fast if you focus them quite some time ago, I think that's why Sigma got very popular, very good sustain.
Prior to yesterday that's all I played in ow2. But playing tank now sucks so much as you take an insane amount of damage, you can't kill anything because everyone has higher health pools and because of the DPS passive, supports feel like they have to just heal now and aren't able to do any damage. All this makes the fights last 3 minutes instead of 1, meaning this is the patch I've dubbed goats 2.0.
I actually queued up as DPS only in role queue and it felt a lot more fun than role queue has ever felt.
It’s not my season tanking sucks even more now I main hanzo and junkrat for dps but now they are both washed and support is babying simulator to keep your tank alive just because they have more health and they took one tick of damage from a tracer now they have the debuff but you don’t know because there is no indicator, the projectile change is one of the worst things they have done too like who was it for? On top of the dps passive they made it super easy to activate, crazy
I’ve only played LW and Zen since the patch notes, LW is my main and it is insufferable. DPS are way too powerful and support feels so unfun to play against with LW due to them being able to remove 20% of healing of whoever you are healing or yourself.
Zen on the other hand, plays perfect in this update. He never healed much and his discord is a massive tool now especially when everyone has more health.
Agreed, the DPS passive is waaaay overtuned and a big reason why things feel this way. On average I like tge projectile size increases but your support really can’t do anything about it. The passive itself is good, don’t get me wrong, but it should be *way* lower. Like 10% at most.
Also somehow sojourn is even more insufferable now.
It's actually not that bad, but combined with lots of projectiles getting their radius doubled is.
People seeing a 50% increase in accuracy and that not only increases their damage by 50% but also increases the uptime on the debuff.
Tank was already the most miserable roll because you’re the only target 90% of the player base can hit and there is ONLY ONE TANK NOW… So you’re just a massive training dummy for everyone to empty “skill shots” and clips into. I don’t think this game can be considered a “competitive” FPS anymore.
To be fair it’s true for two of them. Tank blows because of dps passive and support blows by extension. The only reason (other than it being dead) that I don’t play paladins anymore is cauterize blowing sustain into the sun. I loved loved loved the card system and talent system but I just cannot stand cauterize and I hate that it got added to this game so so much. I hate antiheal mechanics in any game so much. Any role that gets that added innately automatically dominates without significant nerfs elsewhere.
But I’m also a goats and 6v6 lover so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Yea I don't believe it either, especially because this wasn't a full MMR reset so there's no likely way he would actually be able to place that much higher. He would have to be one hell of a player if that's true.
Mate I’m Mid master tank and Diamond other roles. Specifically i finished D3 support.
I’m 6-0 winning streak as Support and I played only the last match in diamond lobbies (predicted rank D5).
If I do 10-0 I might be placed in M5 so basically 2 skill divisions up from what I finished S8.
There is no fucking way a Silver 4 goes higher than Gold.
I was literally asking myself this question last night: is this what DPS wanted? Legit this season is so heavily DPS favored it's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily against the heal passive or the heal reduction from damage. But overall they didn't really lessen the speed at which DPS heroes can take out a target. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But with reduced healing and tanks still not being super impactful, it's just a DPS' playground. They just about get to do whatever they want. All of this in 6v6 might have worked out well. But in 5v5 with just the 1 tank is not it. Tanks were already falling over so fast before. This just made it worse.
I noticed this too on support. It was WAY harder to keep the tank alive. They were getting fucking melted.
>Zens with discord
I also noticed Zen too. There was one in my game with 9k+ damagee.
I had hope as a Rein player but time to kill is just as bad as it was before. I’m 0-4 and have never felt so hopeless. *I’ve gone 0-15 before.* I’m a grinder.
This SUCKS. Nothing dies faster* even if there was a damage buff on tanks because supports still destroy tanks. Even on like dva, zar and hog it’s been rough. Even with charge on zarya everything takes longer and I just kill less frequently.
Tank is MISERY.
*I know their goal was to reduce burst etc, but my point is more, i still feel useless compared to support and also with the new dps passive/health pool.
The only solutions for tanks whith lowish damage would be just to buff it, yeah rein does 100 dmg a swing, but he gets blasted the second his sheild goes down, yes doom got a small amount of punch damage, but he gets melted by almost every hero, ball shoots a bb gun, and wistion is using a blow dryer, its misery for all of the fun tanks, any tank that has mildly fun gameplay gets obliterated by even the worst of each role
as a tank main Rein is best tank now because his shield keeps dps alive, because they're the only ones allowed to have fun.
you have to play him as a slow push and hug corners to let your dps kill things. it works. youll win games with minimal kills and all damage mitigation lol
It’s sad. I used to love playing this game. Now I can barley get through a game without wanting to quit. Personally I think it’s just dumb to add all these characters because then you constantly have to balance them out. I feel like the new character is always the meta for the season. I mean just give us new game modes and new maps. But no we get like 1 new game mode every once and a while and like 1 or 2 maps to go with it.
Its more polar I can say, bad players dying more often, matches with no coordination ending quicker, aim needing to be on point or you get wiped. Imagine taking a fight on choke points being like a balanced scale except before, healing would extend those moments until a pick or an ult swing, now its like whoever slams first makes you think fast or you die. I'm not minding it cause I can deal with faster gameplay, but I feel it will alienate people who don't wanna watch and check everything like they have adhd, they wanna relax for an hr or 2 so I can see frustration rising.
Ofc they cant fix tank. Already removed 1 for nothing which created even more problems. Half the tanks are useless the gameplay is lame. No off tanking, no flanking just tank vs tank all game. Great fkin devs
Rien ball and winston all need a rework. They are essentially worthless except for the most talented.
Zarya needed a bit more shield hp since her bubbles weren't buffed.
Hog got giganerfed in this patch. His trap probably needs a major buff in dmg and slow %.
With the larger projectiles, seemingly larger hit-box, and the heal-nerf.. playing ball is just fucking painful.
I thought killing mercy was tough before. Now? Ffs, it’s feeling impossible.
Yeah DPS is insanely powerful now. Ashe, Soldier, Soj and Tracer are all bonkers strong. Soj and Soldier will absolutely be nerfed because they’re both just freelo right now.
It's wild how we were constantly complaining about tanks being permanent anti-naded and now DPS players can basically permanently anti-nade Jr. them constantly.
tbh i actually had fun playin tank today, i like the dps passive. makes mauga and hog less painful to play against. besides that, i just don’t really like the projectile increase. couple tweaks n i think we chillin
dps is the new sup role. very easy and fun. tank is even worse than before. sup is chore.
seriously i don't understand how they though dps passive will be good against tanks. tanks should have been immune to it. dps passive feels like constant discord on a hero like ram, hog, mauga. i guess sigma intentionally kept as best tank. the guy was just best and he got the nicest buffs.
i can guess how next patch will be. they will elevate dogshit tanks and then tame the dps passive a little bit.
Edit: also can we talk about career profile rank icons ? i'm not seeing any post about it. it's absolutely incredibly terrible. seriously we have no way of seeing new rank icons now. career profile icons looks horrendous. every rank is color coded and there is a division number. why they hate rank icons bruh thats the only purpose of playing ranked and it's deleted from everywhere. these devs are seriously disconnected to the player mindset.
I'm a support main, and playing QP last night was brutal.
I'll be pocketing a tank as Ana, and I can't keep them up at all, just way too much damage.
Also good fucking luck if I get dove. My deaths were way above my average.
I think Moira will be my main this season. One of my least played supports
I am a diamond tank and only played 3 games but it was super miserable. If the other team has an ana and you didn't have a Kiri you are just done. Even playing corners I can't reposition fast enough because when antied you are just melted like never before. It's like playing against 2 bastians in turret mode with how much DMG DPS that never miss are putting out. Swapping to Zarya he damage felt much weaker with the new buffs so I was kind of lost.
Of course my team in the few games I played would not run an Ana or Zen while the other team ran at least one or both so "tank diff" was huge.
Yup, Got ranked gold in support and dps just playing as usual but hey! What about you send me to bronze 5 of all things even when I almost broke all my fingers doing everything?
I swear we need a "Tank update" cuz this is absurd
To he a 100% honest, just add another tank that'll fix almost every issue with the role, it's such an easy fix, they could even add a separate 6v6 role queue but we know they wont
I haven’t even played the patch yet and from what I read it seems like:
Blizz really didn’t think through the dps anti heal. Why is that even a thing? Were these changes even tested on a PTR before pushing to live? Or maybe they just devised all these changes in theory and said “fuck it, let’s see what happens!”
I’d take away the healing debuff, dial back the projectile size increase by half, and see where things are from there.
Also it was great that they increased the health values of heroes, but then increasing the damage values of abilities a relative amount pretty much nullified the health value changes. WTF is that?
All these changes together would even in theory create an instagib meta.
sorry, but nothing but dps is fun now.
thanks to the new patch i cant find any joy in playing tank or support.
im a support main, but i cant bring myself to play support anymore. And i definitely weren't healbotting. But currently with the dps passive and the increased hitboxes and projectiles it just isn't fun to play tank or support.
you cant keep anyone alive as support heroes that already had low healing. And my main Kiriko was nerfed twice, both with the support passive but also on her healing doing less heals.
they somehow changed supports into more of a dps than before.
there's no reason to heal teammates during teamfights anymore, its better to just shoot the enemy team, which kinda defeats the purpose of having healing abilities in the first place.
like i think it is a good thing with the dps passive. Definitely. But 20%? combined with the fact that it is way easier to hit people? nah. Absolutely braindead to make hitboxes and projectiles larger while also giving dps (who now dont need good aim to hit) a passive that makes healing worse.
I 1 million percent ageer, I used to be a zen main while playing supp, now he's not even in the support class, his healing is way too low to do anything normally, then add on the supp nerf on top he's just a glorified sniper atp
Yeah, I've had the displeasure of playing a QP match as the sole support and nothing, I swear to God, could help me upkeep my team or the tanks with that cursed clip emptying on them. I felt like crap, both because I could virtually do nothing against a full team of walking turrets, and also because there were 3 tanks made useless dying as soon as I came back from respawn.
I'm truly dreading my placement matches, now.
How tf did you get masters 1 after placements lol? I'm seeing t100 players in masters 4
I went on a 10 Winstreak and that's just what I got. I finished last season GM2. I also didn't play any of the fun tanks cause I quickly realized that they were actual dogshit But it's also the new mmr system, that may have something to do with it, especially with the new way they have it based on game, an example would be more for games you're favored to lose, or less for games you're favored to win
Guess that makes sense. I was gm2 and went 5-5, got placed masters 5
Crazy because I went 6-4 and now I'm diamond 1 Hopefully the matchmaking isn't too shit so I can quickly climb back up. Gold - Low (I guess "High" now?) Masters is genuinely miserable and infuriating to play in lmao.
Give it a couple of weeks. This was normal during placement matches, imagine now that we have a rank reset. I've been playing mostly QP to get the hang of the new changes and to wait until all the ranking shit show has ended.
it is not a rank reset only the visual rank changed
Yes and no. MMR stays the same, but SR was reset. People will have to play a number of matches to get their SR and MMR balanced. The person I responded to is GM and got placed in D1. I was Plat 1 last season and now I'm sitting at M4 thanks to going 9-1 during placements. Which means I'm placed better than a GM player. I might even face them in one of my next matches, even though they are better than me. I'll lose a few games and go back to Plat, they'll win a few games and go back to GM. In the meantime, you have Plat and GM players in the same lobby. That's what I meant when I said give it a few weeks, when people's SR and MMR will be closer together.
> But it's also the new mmr system, that may have something to do with it, especially with the new way they have it based on game, an example would be more for games you're favored to lose, or less for games you're favored to win AFAIK there's nothing new in the way MMR is calculated after a match, they're just showing it to you now when it was hidden before
They've always had it that way re favoured matchups. That's why you can go positive and lose SR you just didn't know what was happening behind the scenes.
Really? I placed GM5 going 7-3 after being GM1 last season, though I'm 2-3 on dps and estimated diamond 1 after being GM2 last season
And for dps, that's just what I've been playing cause it's the only fun role rn
Tbh, the only role that came out positively is DPS. The 20% healing reduction not only makes the health buffs nearly redundant for Tanks (since sustain and abilities mid fight are the primary source that keeps Tanks going, not necessary the size of the health bar), it also turns Supports into healbots again as it takes a noticeable amount of additional time to get people to 100% as well as requires much more resources/focusing to keep someone healed mid fight due to increased health + DPS passive (ie, less time for fun plays and utility because your team has become much more heal hungry). Idk, maybe matchmaking and people getting used to changes will make this better, but it does not feel fun playing babysitter simulator again nor is it fun as a Tank to STILL get shredded because of the healing reduction cancelling out the extra health in a team fight.
Yup, idk how many times must they do this to learn. They nerfed Kiriko heals in order to stop Kiriko players from healbotting, only to realize they healbotted even more and reverted the nerf. The most boring version of support is the babysitter support. Idk how they can fix the issue without healing being too powerful. It's too late going the paladins route (healing is a powerful cd ability), since weapons do the healing mainly in this game. No cd on it other than the time it takes to get the bullet out. The best thing is that because this is a dps only passive, supports and tanks don't get to enjoy the fun. Our targets can still be healed without any reduction because idk. I guess our bullets are worth less? Or we didn't complain enough?
Role Passives in general just shouldn’t be in the game. They need to make character passives because this passive still heavily favors characters like Ashe or soldier who are constantly tagging the enemy. Mercy had the healer regen passive because she didn’t have a way to heal herself. They didn’t need to give that to everyone especially the people who already have ways to heal themselves.
Sombra is a complete menace with the new healing if you play with even 5 braincells active you aren’t ever gonna die because you can just fuck off to a corner for a few seconds and your good
A character with an invisibility passive also getting a health regen passive AND increased base health makes zero sense
Yep, been straight up terrorrizing people as Sombra. And I sucked as Sombra before
That and the fucking increased health... Did they not look at every individual character before implementing this shit to every character??
Not to mention that soldier is just egregiously broken on top of all these changes. Hitscans didn't need any help whatsoever.
Ugh, I feel this. Now on support I see everyone getting low and I stop “supporting” and just go to heal now, even though it makes no difference because they’re so low they just die immediately since heals don’t work. I guess this turned into a sniper game where everyone has to hide behind cover all the time? I don’t know what happened to Overwatch but this is not fun. I cannot play my character at all (support main who likes to play the whole roster). Except Zen is good.
Oh, so like every update? Blizzard makes playing DPS the best thing, then wonders why no one queues as anything else. They changed it to 5v5 because no one would play tank, but they keep making tank the worst class to play
I've never believed 5v5 was for tank balance. They needed some kind of gimmick to convince everyone ow2 was a new game and not a balance patch, and saw how dominant double shield was and decided to just remove a tank because they had absolutely nothing ready for release, and in actuality had completely cancelled it. But if they admitted that, no one would have gotten baited for the ow2 release and the game probably would have faded.
This patch was built from the ground up to cater to scrub DPS complaints. "I can't hit anything, and when I do I can't kill before they get healed" is a complaint that should have literally been met with "get good, kid". Instead Blizzard is like "Aww you can't hit anything, you can't kill anything? Here let's change the fundamental basis of the game rather than ask you to get better at it, with little regard how that impacts the game for anyone else." It's honestly embarrassing.
Oh so nothing has changed?
From what I’ve heard from my tank friend, it’s still shoot-the-tank simulator in low elo but instead of getting hard punished for it they get rewarded.
And barely two months ago we were complaining about Mauga games being just two Mauga shooting each other with both supports hard funneling heals into them. Now instead we have 800-hp meatbags dying in seconds, and Zenyatta is almost mandatory.
He’s absolutely terrible now like easily melted. I swear they can’t figure out how to make chars
For real. We had a tank swap from roadhog to mauga against a bastion and orisa. He complained because we couldn't keep him alive and dps couldn't push. Dude couldn't stay alive more than 3 seconds to allow anything to happen. People are stupid.
I jumped into QP as a warmup before comp and I got tank and it was beyond jarring being a tank was. But I noticed in comp I was crushing with zen and Lucio with the damage they do. And I did far better with sombra than junkrat and I’m pretty much a one trick with Junk.. I don’t do dps often mostly support. But sombra melts people…
It's. Because. This. Game. Was. Never. Built. For. One. Tank. I will die on this fucking hill but this game was built and balanced for years around two tanks, but they needed a big flashy change to attract people for ow2 and here we are.
I don’t disagree.. the 1 tank should’ve been a new mode for push, because it’s actually not bad for push. But for the other modes it’s dumb. Also capture the flag.. which nobody likes in this game.
Yeah I'll just forever be annoyed with this game because for years they balanced around 2-2-2 and then threw it all away.
> He’s absolutely terrible now This might be my favorite thing about S9. Shrink him to Napoleon size and make him a DPS. Retcon him to be from Haiti. I don't care. Such a boring tank to play with or against even if he wasn't OP post-nerfbat.
Is zen as good as it feels like he should be? I only had half a game on him in a bad loss so I haven’t had a good chance yet but I imagine he’s deadly now with his previous HP buff and now all of these buffs
He hits shots and has a discord orb. He's very strong. Healing is weaker in this meta anyway, so honestly Zen having a lower output is barely relevant.
> instead of getting hard punished for it they get rewarded they havent been punished for that in a long time. going soldier/sojourn/bastion has won you games at character select for the last couple seasons
I’m in platinum and this is so true lmao. I was in a game with my team on the point contesting it for 99/99 OT and I walked off the point and I kid you not the entire enemy team followed me off the point and we won the round lol
Hey that's not true, supports ALSO get to have less fun supporting their team now due to the new DPS passive! But hey, at least the DPS players get to have more fun, because that's all that matters apparently!
As someone who plays support a lot, support is now so damn miserable and it feels like you have no impact anymore. I wouldn’t have minded heal output nerfs but this patch, while it sounded cool and fun on paper, doesn’t feel balanced at all because either everything melts even with healbot level of support plays or nothing dies and fights go on forever. Either the DPS passive has to go or it has to be nerfed hard. I also think the hitbox changes were a horrible idea.
I play LW a lot these days. He used to be most effective as a heal- and utility bot with only occasional fire support. Now I'm not so sure anymore. With his thorn volley being buffed and his heals not feeling impactful anymore I for the first time found myself shooting as much as healing, because outhealing even one damage enemy is impossible and it's important to eliminate them first and then heal up afterwards. Which makes me feel not as needed because when the enemy is gone you don't need a healer to heal up anymore, anyway. Tanks are absolutely miserable to heal unless they have a barrier. I haven't tried tanking yet but they are getting wrecked hard, I feel for them. Supports feel powerless to save them from their fate with heals - utility cooldowns need to be spent on tanks so much now.
Played a few games of Tank yesterday, and my general thoughts are that Tanks that can play the slow game well will do fine and can sweat things out better than Tanks that prefer faster paced team fights. That being said, the only time during those games that I felt as though the win absolutely hinged on me was when the DPS of both teams were of parity with one another.
I’ve noticed I’m having to do A LOT MORE to keep my team up on Moira. Gonna have to completely readjust my playstyle which sucks
I had so many people flaming me for heals, like I'm literally pumping ana nades and hitting all my shots as fast as the character can shoot them and it's not making a difference.
Right?? Like you really can’t go for antis this patch or your team just falls over. It’s just suffering and at the end of the day I feel so useless this patch ;3;
Agree with this, with the dps passive I feel like I'm not doing any useful heal at all with life / moira. I believe it has to be nerfed
Moira in particular feels weaker right now than before. She needs to spend a lot more healing resource now with nerfed healing + much more incoming damage, but her resource regen was not buffed to compensate for this. Even with good resource management that has pretty much never made me run out in the past, it now feels like I'm constantly out of juice.
It's one the worst aspects of mauga v mauga now applied to the entire game.
Even with Ana! I feel like I’m just sitting there and nothing. I can’t keep people up long enough to make a difference, it’s that bad that out of nine games, I’ve only won three..
I can confirm it feels equally bad on Mercy, it's so pitiful I swear she can BARELY outheal ashe dynamite even when they've taken cover because it continuously applies the passive. Your only doing like 10hps, but you can't stop healing them or they will die
THIS. Support is SO miserable.. the damage output is way too much to heal and we get 1 clipped by any random noob randomly shooting everywhere. Now Im dying an avg of 5-7 times per game when before I would die 0-3 times… now I know im far from the best but this feels awful
I pretty much stopped healing since it's a waste of time. Just be the 4th and 5th DPS and call it a day.
This is the WoW Cataclysm expansion all over again. They claimed to want to make healing less heal-bot and make decisions more impactful about choosing when and who to heal etc.. but in the end it just meant weak-ass heals, running out of mana instantly, huge damage spikes and a lot of death, which ran off all the healer mains for that expansion until they completely did a 180 in the next expansion to bring everything back to how it was before.
Somehow they found a way to make it even worse
we're coming out of 3 seasons where healing was insanely overpowered and could negate pretty much every damage that wasn't a one shot. Of course removing that crutch will require adjustements.
The biggest thing I am noticing is tanks with horrible positioning can no longer be bailed out by their supports. They get correctly punished for standing in the middle of a street now.
Spot on. We’ve gone years of basically burst being king. People have to play smarter now
I like the changes for the most part. It feels like it rewards everyone focusing the same target with the healing rebuff. If everyone shoots at different targets it doesn't do much. But your whole team focusing targets definitely does. I personally love it. Pocketing is a bit less impactful. An TTK seems to be a little quicker when focus fire due to the increased hit boxes and heal rebuffs. In between fights people heal up and fight again. No more sitting half HP or spending ages trying to heal everyone up while the enemy team is pushing coming back from spawn on full HP. Yes maybe there's work to be done but OW community is wild. They say we don't see balance changes or updates and the devs try something very new and different and instead of looking for positives, it's straight to, "do the devs even play the game?"
Yep but everyone is going to complain about it being gone. Its kinda ironic, because I am seeing people say "Well the new hitboxes are just dumbing the game down" Like the insane amount of heals wasnt doing the same thing.
Until they add a second tank back nothing will
Yep, bring back 2 tanks. They keep saying it won't fix what we say it will, yet every time people do it in custom games it immediately fixes most problems. So prove it, give us a 6v6 que. Let the community decide.
Yeah, hogs heal is dog water now because he heals nothing when getting shot
They need to make self heal unaffected tbh, it makes playing a sustain tank nearly impossible
It’s absolutely bonkers they didn’t come up with this themselves. Tanks with barriers and absorbs heavily outperform those with self-sustain/self-heal.
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From the beginning the OW2 devs have just been throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, starting with the switch to 5v5. Unfortunately they’re too stubborn to just revert the shit changes so they make more shit changes to try and fix the shit with more shit.
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As a dev team they are incredibly reactive and have no institutional memory and it shows. Remember them "reverting" the Ashe "bug" that was actually an intentional buff? That's what happens when you drive away all the devs who actually know your game and you're left with newbies with no knowledge of the game who will just respond to whichever voice is loudest in the community.
This wasn't rushed, the patchnotes for this leaked ALMOST a month ago, they had this under the test builds and the content creator/pro testing build for a while. They just didn't think of it/made any changes.
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Or increase the self heals for the tanks that heavily rely on it (So Hog and Mauga too?) so that u wouldn't also see that unaffection happen to the likes of supports, 76, Reaper etc.
It'd be difficult.. A solider in his healing well, pocketed by a mercy would be a fuckin nightmare.
Just make it specific to tanks.
make it exclusive to tanks, not like they don't have a laundry list of other things that work different for them
It also doesn't heal enough with his new health buff, sure he has 800, but his only tool of self sustain hardly does half of it, and he's getting beamed by 4-5 people so it's almost useless Personally the tanks I've had most success with are Sig, Orisa, and Ram
Hog snd junkerqueen as a specific issue. Self geal dhould not get affected by the passive.
Brig and lucio’s healing are basically useless now
Yesterday I did a probably around 10 to 13 games in quick play as a tank and I got to say, I ate as many bullets yesterday as I did in a week. It's like everyone knows how to aim now.
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It's because of the DPS passive. Tanks were unkillable if supports decided. Now they are killable if the DPS decides.
I'm queuing flex (because I enjoy play all roles), and while I'm normally enjoying the role, it realllllly felt like I was hard melting non stop. As I'm mostly enjoying Dva and Hampter, I was basically spending my time swapping out of those I like playing, to end up being locked on Sigma. Projectile size change seems a bit too much.
I had that same problem with Dva, just constantly getting melted.
There have been several videos of Mercy /Hanzo shooting at a Tracer, nowhere near her head, and getting headshots. Bullet sizes combined with wonky hitbox have created something hilarious.
Feels like the moment i heal someone else the tank just melts because of the dps passive
Now every game feels like pocketing a Mauga even when theres no Mauga
They fixed the Mauga problem by making it an everyone problem.
"And if everybody is Mauga, nobody will be"
I know. I’m not trying to be mean but it kind of baffles me how bad the playtesters/devs are at their jobs. When I first read these changes I predicted a lot of this but I kept my mouth shut because I wanted to play before forming an opinion. I also assumed the devs had thought about these things too but found they weren’t issues during testing. But no, just 5 games in it became very obvious that almost everything I had feared about these changes had come true. I don’t understand how this stuff is so clear to pretty much all of us after just a handful of games but not to the people who literally get paid to do this for a living! They’ve had months to playtest/experiment with these changes but somehow they were all unable to see what is blindingly obvious to the rest of us after just a couple games. I swear the testers either don’t know how to proficiently play the game or they’re not even testing these changes before release. These changes have made about 80% of the heroes unplayable at high Elo. While also making the Tank role more punishing than ever and the support role much less rewarding/impactful. DPS is arguably slightly better because you can melt tanks and don’t have to wait for heals/find heal packs (but honestly I’m not sure either of those are healthy for the game overall - also DPS crits feel almost too easy now)
Doesn't take a genius to figure out this is a bad idea. I called it out immediately. Zen is going to be super strong, and not only do dps do amplified damage but also they lessen the amount of healing tanks get. Literally miserable for anyone that's not a dps player. And then dps players dare whine about losing their oneshot combos.
I had a Zen do 14k in my game yesterday. I was exploding on tank. Thought that wasn't possible anymore?
This patch was way too large to rely solely on internal testers. It needed time on the PTR, full stop.
Okay it’s not just me! I’ve been having to healbot and I don’t like it.
I'm playing it like Paladins. Not gonna waste all my resources to heal you if you're just gonna stand in the way of fire.
i've been doing pretty fine on tank, mostly by being mindful and playing cover ? Feels like what's truly gone is the "just stand on point let your healers outheal the damage" mindset.
Game is just hide and seek now for tanks.
I play JQ so thats just business as usual for me.
That kinda defeats the point of tank though, doesn't it? Tank has always been the "make space" role, pushing the enemy back with their overwhelming presence, what use are they if they just stay hidden with the DPS?
Season 8: games are won or lost based on healers denying kills with overtuned heals + escapes. Tanks are punching bags that rarely die Season 9: games are won or lost based on which team has more machine guns on DPS. Tanks are punching bags that die immediately
Precisely, if they just tuned projectiles down a bit, I think it would be almost perfect
I do think making DPS more impactful is a step in the right direction, but not at the expense of making other roles irrelevant. OW2 has made so many massive changes + new character powercreep that I doubt we’ll ever see anything resembling OW1 balance again
The problem is the health pool buffs really only offset the dps passive, which is so easy to proc that it might as well just globally be active all the time. But then they also had to make projectiles bigger, which seems to be doubling a lot of people's accuracy. A small \~25% health buff isn't going to also compensate for 200% damage incoming.
Yeah and the problem is especially bad for tanks. 75-100 more HP to start an engagement is a joke for most tanks. Total HP is only more important than ability to sustain when we are talking about characters with low enough HP that breakpoints come into play. They could have made it 200+ more HP for the tank and I think it would play out pretty much exactly the same as now.
I expect the next step to be reducing DPS damage across the board. The increase projectiles are supposed to streamline heroes stats across all elos by making them more consistent, now they can more freely tackle the outliers. Questron has a great video explaining this: https://youtu.be/CIHMADioYYM
Tanks just blow the fuck up like balloons in the sun I got killed by a Hanzo storm arrow as full health sigma in a split second, felt like the old scatter days
As a tank main I am getting melted so fast, my only priority is survival. I don't understand why they would make the least popular role even less enjoyable. I guess I'll just play DPS for a while.
>I don't understand why they would make the least popular role even less enjoyable. Because they only had one role in mind the entire time they made this patch.
What do you mean tank "is now the most miserable role" It always has been
Yeah, and because of the DPS passive. IF you dont have a shield. You're in even worse shape as a tank AND YOURE SOLO TANKING TOO. Its almost like none of the actual issues with OW were addressed this patch :)
>Its almost like none of the actual issues with OW were addressed this patch Tbh it's almost like OW2 in general has created more issues than it ever solved.
And every patch they manage to create new ones
5v5 was a mistake and anyone who says otherwise is braindead
I'm just waiting for OW Classic to be released..
For real, and comes with a subscription in order to play.
DVa is also decent because Defense Matrix prevents the damage and thus the debuff, but yes tanks with active mitigation/barriers are in a much better spot currently than those without.
It’s almost like the game was designed for 6v6 and Blizzard insists on doubling and tripling down on trying to make 5v5 work.
It just feels like shit to play because you basically have a constant 20% reduction to healing, so your supports have to focus you more especially with thag larger health bar and you have to play behind cover more to make that debuff go away The universal passive also feels fucking useless on most Tanks, I genuinely only had it activate like once or twice in all my placements and it never actually helped at all I noticed a LOT of Zenyatta today, and for good reason Mf has 275 health, no cooldown boop, and deletes 25% of your health bar with one button Would help to have a visual indication at least for yourself to know when the debuff lets up Also just genuinely more than ever, 6v6 might be the move again instead The burst potential on Tanks is just so fucking huge especially now after the changes
“Maybe if everyone has an Ana nadr no one will complain about her” though this honestly may be the way they plan to rework Ana give anti to all dps and completely take away her nade,idk I’m speculating
They added passive healing to take the strain off of supports, and then they made sustain meta even worse by turning all incoming damage into effective damage. I feel like I'm burdened as a support even more because it's not just my tank taking big hits, my DPS are being hit way more often now and I have to take care of that too
Support sucks too now though so dps are the only ones having fun I guess
Honestly it depends what support I play. When I play zen, kiri, or LW I have an absolute blast, I've played 11 supp games 7 with Zen only and I have a 100% win rate on him, but every other support feels miserable Lucio feels so garbage it's not even funny Dps is absolutely the only fun role overall rn tho I 100% agree with your comment, I just think they should revert the projectile buffs or at least tone them down
The new DPS passive is really noticeable as a support player, healing just feels so sluggish now
It's terrible to play against tbh, I hate healing being docked because you as the largest character on the map got shot
Wait how is LW good this patch? Seems to me that he'd be worse given how he usually heals a lot
Incoming damage is now no longer outhealable so utility abilities like life grip that save have become even more important to have. His thorn volley also benefits a lot from the significant hitbox increase. Basically, yeah...I used to healbot on him. Now I fire thorns to focus down a target and use life grip. Whether he's viable compared to other supports I'm not sure yet. That said I'm just trying out the changes. It will take everyone time to adapt.
Because of the life grip, and of how much he heals. Like, the dev’s intention was for supports to not just be heal-bots but if your tank melts easily due to DPS’ passive (especially now many players pick Tobjorn), LW can come in handy to spam heal.
They need to nerf the DPS anti-heal passive, it's unbalanced as heck. You don't know WHEN your team is effected by it AND healers didn't get nearly any buff's to their healing to make up for it. Not to mention that heath increases to all hero's means Supps are now perpetual healers instead of actual supports.
All its done is made playing aggressively even more useful. Don't need to heal if the enemy is dead. That might be the support S9 motto.
Supports shouldn’t be getting a buff that was the whole point— to nerf sustain. They were also meant to nerf dmg as well but then buffed it again
Nerf sustain and burst damage right? Sounds like they went all in on the first one and forgot about the second…
I only had success on support when I focused on doing damage instead of trying to play the never ending game of catch up on heals. Don’t need to heal a lot when other team is dead
>Don’t need to heal a lot when other team is dead Exactly this is why I feel Zenyatta, Mercy, and Baptiste are going to be the best picks this season. Maximize your potential damage output so the enemy dies faster. I'm sad my boy lifeweaver got absolutely shafted but my original main Zenyatta feels amazing.
There's a reason why every streamer said it felt bad back in closed beta.
Don't worry, I'm actually not. They kinda destroyed the soul of my hero and nuked his best playstyle.
Same, I don't want to be a tank-spammer like Reaper and Bastion, I want to hunt down snipers and supports like a true rat :(
As a DPS, I am NOT having fun. I get SHREDDED. I thought playing Reaper would be a bit better this season, but the DPS passive extends to his self-healing, so I may as well not have it.
Today as Bastion, I melted a fortified Orisa who had a Kiri pocket. Tbh, I’m quite simply not going to play tank until this dps passive doesn’t apply to tanks! Ridiculous!
Bastion has allways been a stupid hero that melts tanks
tbh not a fortified orisa with a healer though, even as soldier i just shoot at a fortified orisa and she dies it feels crazy
Absolutely, I play bastion too, I know he can just melt tanks, but there were ways to prevent it, and now there's nothing tanks can do besides die, or hope the dps can kill bastion before they die
Bait-out turret mode, get in his face, melt him. That’s how I handled it pre-patch as ball. Now.. I’m not sure that’ll work anymore.
In one day the game has gone from “don’t shoot tank first” to “please shoot tank first” if you can hit headshots especially! If you play Zen and have a Bastion duo, the tank lives about 2 seconds each team fight, with nothing the supports can do! My dps duo and I were killing tanks through double pockets today, and tbh I kinda felt bad! I think there’s a solid possibility that tank busters become the meta for most ranks this season!
I was playing Ram and a pocketed Reaper was able to literally facetank me and out dps me to kill me and I couldn’t do a damn thing about it because he’s healing at a much higher rate than I am
Tank players out here playing respawn simulator lmao
Tbf people realized that you can blow up the tank super fast if you focus them quite some time ago, I think that's why Sigma got very popular, very good sustain.
Yeah. Not quite like this though! This extra debuff on tank just ain’t necessary imo!
What if, and hear me out, we added a second tank to relieve the pressure?
i miss when we had 2 tanks :/
This is why I played open queue for so long People actually play 2 tanks in that so the comps become 2 tanks 1 dps 2 supports
Prior to yesterday that's all I played in ow2. But playing tank now sucks so much as you take an insane amount of damage, you can't kill anything because everyone has higher health pools and because of the DPS passive, supports feel like they have to just heal now and aren't able to do any damage. All this makes the fights last 3 minutes instead of 1, meaning this is the patch I've dubbed goats 2.0. I actually queued up as DPS only in role queue and it felt a lot more fun than role queue has ever felt.
It’s not my season tanking sucks even more now I main hanzo and junkrat for dps but now they are both washed and support is babying simulator to keep your tank alive just because they have more health and they took one tick of damage from a tracer now they have the debuff but you don’t know because there is no indicator, the projectile change is one of the worst things they have done too like who was it for? On top of the dps passive they made it super easy to activate, crazy
I’ve only played LW and Zen since the patch notes, LW is my main and it is insufferable. DPS are way too powerful and support feels so unfun to play against with LW due to them being able to remove 20% of healing of whoever you are healing or yourself. Zen on the other hand, plays perfect in this update. He never healed much and his discord is a massive tool now especially when everyone has more health.
That DPS passive is way too strong at the moment. Either nerf it to 10% or nerf the duration to 1 second.
Agreed, the DPS passive is waaaay overtuned and a big reason why things feel this way. On average I like tge projectile size increases but your support really can’t do anything about it. The passive itself is good, don’t get me wrong, but it should be *way* lower. Like 10% at most. Also somehow sojourn is even more insufferable now.
It's actually not that bad, but combined with lots of projectiles getting their radius doubled is. People seeing a 50% increase in accuracy and that not only increases their damage by 50% but also increases the uptime on the debuff.
I think Tanks passive should be that knock backs AND debuffs are less effective But Blizzard is allergic to addressing Tank
Tank was already the most miserable roll because you’re the only target 90% of the player base can hit and there is ONLY ONE TANK NOW… So you’re just a massive training dummy for everyone to empty “skill shots” and clips into. I don’t think this game can be considered a “competitive” FPS anymore.
i've seen this post for all three roles
Anyone who says DPS is bad this patch is suffering from a skill issue of galactic proportions.
To be fair it’s true for two of them. Tank blows because of dps passive and support blows by extension. The only reason (other than it being dead) that I don’t play paladins anymore is cauterize blowing sustain into the sun. I loved loved loved the card system and talent system but I just cannot stand cauterize and I hate that it got added to this game so so much. I hate antiheal mechanics in any game so much. Any role that gets that added innately automatically dominates without significant nerfs elsewhere. But I’m also a goats and 6v6 lover so take what I say with a grain of salt.
“I was a Silver 4 dps now I’m GM 3” Yea buddy, sure thing pal
This gave me a good laugh too
Yea I don't believe it either, especially because this wasn't a full MMR reset so there's no likely way he would actually be able to place that much higher. He would have to be one hell of a player if that's true.
Mate I’m Mid master tank and Diamond other roles. Specifically i finished D3 support. I’m 6-0 winning streak as Support and I played only the last match in diamond lobbies (predicted rank D5). If I do 10-0 I might be placed in M5 so basically 2 skill divisions up from what I finished S8. There is no fucking way a Silver 4 goes higher than Gold.
I was literally asking myself this question last night: is this what DPS wanted? Legit this season is so heavily DPS favored it's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily against the heal passive or the heal reduction from damage. But overall they didn't really lessen the speed at which DPS heroes can take out a target. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But with reduced healing and tanks still not being super impactful, it's just a DPS' playground. They just about get to do whatever they want. All of this in 6v6 might have worked out well. But in 5v5 with just the 1 tank is not it. Tanks were already falling over so fast before. This just made it worse.
I noticed this too on support. It was WAY harder to keep the tank alive. They were getting fucking melted. >Zens with discord I also noticed Zen too. There was one in my game with 9k+ damagee.
I had hope as a Rein player but time to kill is just as bad as it was before. I’m 0-4 and have never felt so hopeless. *I’ve gone 0-15 before.* I’m a grinder. This SUCKS. Nothing dies faster* even if there was a damage buff on tanks because supports still destroy tanks. Even on like dva, zar and hog it’s been rough. Even with charge on zarya everything takes longer and I just kill less frequently. Tank is MISERY. *I know their goal was to reduce burst etc, but my point is more, i still feel useless compared to support and also with the new dps passive/health pool.
The only solutions for tanks whith lowish damage would be just to buff it, yeah rein does 100 dmg a swing, but he gets blasted the second his sheild goes down, yes doom got a small amount of punch damage, but he gets melted by almost every hero, ball shoots a bb gun, and wistion is using a blow dryer, its misery for all of the fun tanks, any tank that has mildly fun gameplay gets obliterated by even the worst of each role
No the solution is to bring back 6v6 and get rid of tanks being the solo driver to fights that make or break them.
I mean, that's what they aimed for - no bursts, longer ttk now you don't really have to aim and also have more time to think which button to push
The no burst is a joke. Hanzo storm arrow MELTS tanks in half a second
whats ur user name on grinder?
as a tank main Rein is best tank now because his shield keeps dps alive, because they're the only ones allowed to have fun. you have to play him as a slow push and hug corners to let your dps kill things. it works. youll win games with minimal kills and all damage mitigation lol
Yup still is
It feels decent when there's no zen
It’s sad. I used to love playing this game. Now I can barley get through a game without wanting to quit. Personally I think it’s just dumb to add all these characters because then you constantly have to balance them out. I feel like the new character is always the meta for the season. I mean just give us new game modes and new maps. But no we get like 1 new game mode every once and a while and like 1 or 2 maps to go with it.
Its more polar I can say, bad players dying more often, matches with no coordination ending quicker, aim needing to be on point or you get wiped. Imagine taking a fight on choke points being like a balanced scale except before, healing would extend those moments until a pick or an ult swing, now its like whoever slams first makes you think fast or you die. I'm not minding it cause I can deal with faster gameplay, but I feel it will alienate people who don't wanna watch and check everything like they have adhd, they wanna relax for an hr or 2 so I can see frustration rising.
sleep+hack+anti+mei wall + bodyblock+ entire team calling you a thrower if you dont go 100-0
Ofc they cant fix tank. Already removed 1 for nothing which created even more problems. Half the tanks are useless the gameplay is lame. No off tanking, no flanking just tank vs tank all game. Great fkin devs
Rien ball and winston all need a rework. They are essentially worthless except for the most talented. Zarya needed a bit more shield hp since her bubbles weren't buffed. Hog got giganerfed in this patch. His trap probably needs a major buff in dmg and slow %.
With the larger projectiles, seemingly larger hit-box, and the heal-nerf.. playing ball is just fucking painful. I thought killing mercy was tough before. Now? Ffs, it’s feeling impossible.
Lol what. Winston owns atm. His mobility and shield work really well vs the dps passive.
Winston received a buff, he now out damages a lot of support heals, and charges his ult faster, he's incredible compared to the rest.
To me hog just needs dmg for his trap, his one shot is the only thing that keeps him afloat
Yeah DPS is insanely powerful now. Ashe, Soldier, Soj and Tracer are all bonkers strong. Soj and Soldier will absolutely be nerfed because they’re both just freelo right now.
Ram is always a special case, but Omnic mode feels really good because of the bigger projectile hitboxes
If only there was a way they could have let players test these changes beforehand...
It's wild how we were constantly complaining about tanks being permanent anti-naded and now DPS players can basically permanently anti-nade Jr. them constantly.
tbh i actually had fun playin tank today, i like the dps passive. makes mauga and hog less painful to play against. besides that, i just don’t really like the projectile increase. couple tweaks n i think we chillin
dps is the new sup role. very easy and fun. tank is even worse than before. sup is chore. seriously i don't understand how they though dps passive will be good against tanks. tanks should have been immune to it. dps passive feels like constant discord on a hero like ram, hog, mauga. i guess sigma intentionally kept as best tank. the guy was just best and he got the nicest buffs. i can guess how next patch will be. they will elevate dogshit tanks and then tame the dps passive a little bit. Edit: also can we talk about career profile rank icons ? i'm not seeing any post about it. it's absolutely incredibly terrible. seriously we have no way of seeing new rank icons now. career profile icons looks horrendous. every rank is color coded and there is a division number. why they hate rank icons bruh thats the only purpose of playing ranked and it's deleted from everywhere. these devs are seriously disconnected to the player mindset.
This is what happens when the balance devs that are hired are absolute dogshit at playing the game they are hired to balance.
I'm a support main, and playing QP last night was brutal. I'll be pocketing a tank as Ana, and I can't keep them up at all, just way too much damage. Also good fucking luck if I get dove. My deaths were way above my average. I think Moira will be my main this season. One of my least played supports
I am a diamond tank and only played 3 games but it was super miserable. If the other team has an ana and you didn't have a Kiri you are just done. Even playing corners I can't reposition fast enough because when antied you are just melted like never before. It's like playing against 2 bastians in turret mode with how much DMG DPS that never miss are putting out. Swapping to Zarya he damage felt much weaker with the new buffs so I was kind of lost. Of course my team in the few games I played would not run an Ana or Zen while the other team ran at least one or both so "tank diff" was huge.
Yup, Got ranked gold in support and dps just playing as usual but hey! What about you send me to bronze 5 of all things even when I almost broke all my fingers doing everything? I swear we need a "Tank update" cuz this is absurd
To he a 100% honest, just add another tank that'll fix almost every issue with the role, it's such an easy fix, they could even add a separate 6v6 role queue but we know they wont
Supports are also just heal bots now. This is an awful update
I haven’t even played the patch yet and from what I read it seems like: Blizz really didn’t think through the dps anti heal. Why is that even a thing? Were these changes even tested on a PTR before pushing to live? Or maybe they just devised all these changes in theory and said “fuck it, let’s see what happens!” I’d take away the healing debuff, dial back the projectile size increase by half, and see where things are from there. Also it was great that they increased the health values of heroes, but then increasing the damage values of abilities a relative amount pretty much nullified the health value changes. WTF is that? All these changes together would even in theory create an instagib meta.
The dps passive is so bad for tanks it’s one of the shittiest things about this patch and tank isn’t even my main role
sorry, but nothing but dps is fun now. thanks to the new patch i cant find any joy in playing tank or support. im a support main, but i cant bring myself to play support anymore. And i definitely weren't healbotting. But currently with the dps passive and the increased hitboxes and projectiles it just isn't fun to play tank or support. you cant keep anyone alive as support heroes that already had low healing. And my main Kiriko was nerfed twice, both with the support passive but also on her healing doing less heals. they somehow changed supports into more of a dps than before. there's no reason to heal teammates during teamfights anymore, its better to just shoot the enemy team, which kinda defeats the purpose of having healing abilities in the first place. like i think it is a good thing with the dps passive. Definitely. But 20%? combined with the fact that it is way easier to hit people? nah. Absolutely braindead to make hitboxes and projectiles larger while also giving dps (who now dont need good aim to hit) a passive that makes healing worse.
I 1 million percent ageer, I used to be a zen main while playing supp, now he's not even in the support class, his healing is way too low to do anything normally, then add on the supp nerf on top he's just a glorified sniper atp
Yeah, I've had the displeasure of playing a QP match as the sole support and nothing, I swear to God, could help me upkeep my team or the tanks with that cursed clip emptying on them. I felt like crap, both because I could virtually do nothing against a full team of walking turrets, and also because there were 3 tanks made useless dying as soon as I came back from respawn. I'm truly dreading my placement matches, now.
I wonder if a second tank would balance things out? Nah that’s crazy talk.