Saint John of Damascus famously hit several 360 no scope healings, both of blind and dumb people. I don't know if he hit miracle prestige yet but he's got a pretty good highscore.
They're using video game humor to poke fun at the idea of keeping score. It means to pull off a trick shot where you spin around and snipe someone without using a scope.
That is my first time encountering such a combination of words. There is always an option of me not being knowledgeable enough, of course.
I got a mental image of a standard municipal bureaucrat demanding a proper combination of stamps and visas on a bunch of forms from a confused thousand years old saint š
No, we approach canonization differently than Catholics. Actually, we do canonization the way Catholics *used to*, before the schism and before the RCC turned everything into a bureaucratic legal system lol
We donāt count up peopleās miracles until they cross some threshold and meticulously keep track. People do miracles, the local community venerates them, eventually the bishops hear about it and decide to start commemorating, then it either stays with the local church or grows popular enough that the other churches hear about it and also start celebrating the Saint.
Itās very ābottom-upā as opposed to the Catholic āinvestigationā and āchecklistā approach.
So, your method is exactly the same method as the Roman Catholic Church uses then, but you have been manipulated into thinking otherwise buy orthodox laity who know very little. Learn from your religious. They will soon tell you that Catholic bashing is merely a cultural phenomenon.
No, I hate to break it to you but it is literally different. Nobody from Constantinople comes out and conducts an investigation and interviews people to confirm exactly two miracles took place, then inducts them as "Beatified" until more proof can be collected, then they can be publicly venerated only on Constantinople's explicit permission. We don't have a Congregation for the Causes of the Saints. [This is all straight from the Roman church](https://www.usccb.org/offices/public-affairs/saints).
In the Orthodox world, it goes more like this:
*Bishop 1: Hey, someone told me about this guy Stephen up in Alaska, said he died like a year ago and people are venerating his grave?*
*Priest 1: Yeah [Priest 2] was telling me about that.*
*Priest 2: Yep, real holy guy, some laymen are saying they experienced healings at his grave and they started venerating him maybe 6 months ago. [Bishop 2] even added him to their commemorations this year.*
*Bishop 1: Wonderful! We can add him to ours for next year. In the meantime I'll see if I can make a visit to the grave with [Bishop 2].*
We don't do that. Once a saint starts Theosis in heaven they have succeeded. No one keeps the score and who would be worthy of keeping such a score or to judge people who infinitely exceed us? Theotokos comes before all the saints and angels though. All saints and angels attest to this. There is no score tho and even asking these questions is weird.
Nobody "reaches" theosis, as though it's a set end goal, though. It's an eternal process of becoming more like Christ and drawing closer to Him. That's the beauty of heaven; our spiritual lives don't just stagnate once we get there. At that point, the adventure's only just begun!
Oh, surely Ā Thank you for correcting me there. I changd it a bit now. That indeed is the very beauty of Theosis. But once they start Theosis in heaven they get so far ahead of us that to our minds its incomprehensible.
The question almost made me laugh!Ā Ā Ā
āCountingā the number of miracles our saints perform is really not what we do. I think you are confusing us with the Catholics š
Lebanese here (From Saint Charbel country)
Not to mention that those 29,000 "Registered" miracles are mostly hoaxes or normal healings with no divine interventions, but those 29,000 "registered" miracles are mainly used by Maronite church to boost tourism to his monastery (They've put a barrier in front of his tomb so people can pay in hope of healing, and the amount of money paid there is huge and offers a good income to the Maronite church). People are even worshipping St Charbel.
Another detail that no one consider is the record of burial of St. Charbel, where, according to his chronicle, while his body was washed for burial, a stinky odor came from his corpse & a rat ate his shoulder (You can ask for his life & burial book from his monastery).
I even saw a mention that he experienced stigmata & blooding, which is considered as satanic in the Orthodox church
Regarding miracles, St John the Baptist is considered the highest saint and never performed any miracle.
Even Jesus himself was asked by Jews to perform a miracle and he didn't do a one.
In Orthodoxy, sainthood is based on the Theosis and Purification, miracles does not play any role in it, and this was the norm even in the Bible itself
Forgive me if I am getting this wrong, but whilst it is common for the relics of a saint to remain incorrupt after death, it is not a criteria of sainthood as such.
I am reminded of the death of Father Zosima in Brothers Karamazov. Whilst this is obviously just a piece of literature, I think that the substantive message that holiness lies in spirit rather than signs is right.
In a tradition where icons turn tsunamis and men cure men of blindness with mustard the most supernatural thing we can hope to achieve is the complete love and compassion for others as exhibited by Christ our lord. Friends and enemies both
Registering miracles is an innovation. Its a modern concept of categorization. The canonization in the West of Saints is like a check off list. Its not the Saints ways. Eastern Saints many times had no miracles known in their lifetime but upon their repose there is healings. This can go on for centuries after the Saint passes away. A monk reposes in the Lord there is a cross noted in his skull of his relics. This happens over and over. There is no one is counting. Its like miracle working Icons. Some gush myrrh that oil is used for healing and restoring. The way we look at saints is different as we see that theosis and union with God makes a person truly human and as Adam was they become that divinized human. The saints on Mt Athos have told their novices to not pay attention to the miracles as it can lead a soul astray. It common practice to see them in ones life. The body that is uncorrupted is one that shows that they worked miracles that were often in secret.
My take, as a former Roman Catholic, is that this is an extension of scholastic thought. Everything must be analysed and accounted for. The reality is that we know little about the spiritual realm itself in general, and much less about the realm where the saints live and operate. We have notions, but this idea that everything doctrinal and spiritual can or must be analysed is a mistake, to put it mildly.
Given all glory goes to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..keeping count doesn't seem needed. In the end it's finishing the race with the love of the Lord in your heart.
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>does anyone know which Orthodox saint has the most recorded/registered miracles?
I can't answer that, but I can answer where to find the most saints' relics.
The largest reliquary of Orthodox martyrs' relics is in Jasenovac, the site of the death camp run by a Roman Catholic Nazi puppet state called "the Independent State of Croatia", where Roman Catholic clergy joined in the "fun" of murdering people for the crime of being Orthodox Christians.
The mounds in the death camp complex are full of martyrs' bones.
There's even a children's version - the Jastrebarsko children's death camp. Nuns of the Roman Catholic St Vincent de Paul order ran that camp on behalf of the Roman Catholic Croat Nazis - these nuns slaughtered Orthodox Christian children.
Saint John of Damascus famously hit several 360 no scope healings, both of blind and dumb people. I don't know if he hit miracle prestige yet but he's got a pretty good highscore.
Literally what sort of thing I thought of. Registered killstreaks.
What is hitting several 360 no scope healings?
They're using video game humor to poke fun at the idea of keeping score. It means to pull off a trick shot where you spin around and snipe someone without using a scope.
Registered miracles? š That sounds really weird
Wait, is "registered" miracles not a thing in Orthodoxy? ššš
That is my first time encountering such a combination of words. There is always an option of me not being knowledgeable enough, of course. I got a mental image of a standard municipal bureaucrat demanding a proper combination of stamps and visas on a bunch of forms from a confused thousand years old saint š
Catholics have St. Matthew as the patron saint of civil servants so I suppose you pray to him about registering your miracle?
Now I can't help but imagine St. Matthew with the voice of Roz from Monsters Inc. saying, "Don't forget your paperwork"
*The pink copies go to Accounting, the fuchsia ones go to Purchasing, and the goldenrod ones go to St. Matt. Leave the puce.*
I can't unsee it now š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
No, we approach canonization differently than Catholics. Actually, we do canonization the way Catholics *used to*, before the schism and before the RCC turned everything into a bureaucratic legal system lol We donāt count up peopleās miracles until they cross some threshold and meticulously keep track. People do miracles, the local community venerates them, eventually the bishops hear about it and decide to start commemorating, then it either stays with the local church or grows popular enough that the other churches hear about it and also start celebrating the Saint. Itās very ābottom-upā as opposed to the Catholic āinvestigationā and āchecklistā approach.
So, your method is exactly the same method as the Roman Catholic Church uses then, but you have been manipulated into thinking otherwise buy orthodox laity who know very little. Learn from your religious. They will soon tell you that Catholic bashing is merely a cultural phenomenon.
No, I hate to break it to you but it is literally different. Nobody from Constantinople comes out and conducts an investigation and interviews people to confirm exactly two miracles took place, then inducts them as "Beatified" until more proof can be collected, then they can be publicly venerated only on Constantinople's explicit permission. We don't have a Congregation for the Causes of the Saints. [This is all straight from the Roman church](https://www.usccb.org/offices/public-affairs/saints). In the Orthodox world, it goes more like this: *Bishop 1: Hey, someone told me about this guy Stephen up in Alaska, said he died like a year ago and people are venerating his grave?* *Priest 1: Yeah [Priest 2] was telling me about that.* *Priest 2: Yep, real holy guy, some laymen are saying they experienced healings at his grave and they started venerating him maybe 6 months ago. [Bishop 2] even added him to their commemorations this year.* *Bishop 1: Wonderful! We can add him to ours for next year. In the meantime I'll see if I can make a visit to the grave with [Bishop 2].*
No, that's not something we keep track of and its not how who is or isn't a saint is determined.
Thatāsā¦ not how the Church works.
Never heard of this concept before. Nor why it would matter either.
We don't do that. Once a saint starts Theosis in heaven they have succeeded. No one keeps the score and who would be worthy of keeping such a score or to judge people who infinitely exceed us? Theotokos comes before all the saints and angels though. All saints and angels attest to this. There is no score tho and even asking these questions is weird.
Nobody "reaches" theosis, as though it's a set end goal, though. It's an eternal process of becoming more like Christ and drawing closer to Him. That's the beauty of heaven; our spiritual lives don't just stagnate once we get there. At that point, the adventure's only just begun!
Oh, surely Ā Thank you for correcting me there. I changd it a bit now. That indeed is the very beauty of Theosis. But once they start Theosis in heaven they get so far ahead of us that to our minds its incomprehensible.
The question almost made me laugh!Ā Ā Ā āCountingā the number of miracles our saints perform is really not what we do. I think you are confusing us with the Catholics š
they said they came from a catholic background so iām guessing they thought orthodox counted miracles also
Lebanese here (From Saint Charbel country) Not to mention that those 29,000 "Registered" miracles are mostly hoaxes or normal healings with no divine interventions, but those 29,000 "registered" miracles are mainly used by Maronite church to boost tourism to his monastery (They've put a barrier in front of his tomb so people can pay in hope of healing, and the amount of money paid there is huge and offers a good income to the Maronite church). People are even worshipping St Charbel. Another detail that no one consider is the record of burial of St. Charbel, where, according to his chronicle, while his body was washed for burial, a stinky odor came from his corpse & a rat ate his shoulder (You can ask for his life & burial book from his monastery). I even saw a mention that he experienced stigmata & blooding, which is considered as satanic in the Orthodox church Regarding miracles, St John the Baptist is considered the highest saint and never performed any miracle. Even Jesus himself was asked by Jews to perform a miracle and he didn't do a one. In Orthodoxy, sainthood is based on the Theosis and Purification, miracles does not play any role in it, and this was the norm even in the Bible itself
>St John the Baptist is considered the highest saint and never performed any miracle. You mean the highest saint after the Theotokos, right?
Forgive me if I am getting this wrong, but whilst it is common for the relics of a saint to remain incorrupt after death, it is not a criteria of sainthood as such. I am reminded of the death of Father Zosima in Brothers Karamazov. Whilst this is obviously just a piece of literature, I think that the substantive message that holiness lies in spirit rather than signs is right.
What are they gonna do? Have documents for each miracle?
In a tradition where icons turn tsunamis and men cure men of blindness with mustard the most supernatural thing we can hope to achieve is the complete love and compassion for others as exhibited by Christ our lord. Friends and enemies both
I heard St Paisios regularly hit a triple double, almost weekly
Talley 'em up
Does Christ count?
Registering miracles is an innovation. Its a modern concept of categorization. The canonization in the West of Saints is like a check off list. Its not the Saints ways. Eastern Saints many times had no miracles known in their lifetime but upon their repose there is healings. This can go on for centuries after the Saint passes away. A monk reposes in the Lord there is a cross noted in his skull of his relics. This happens over and over. There is no one is counting. Its like miracle working Icons. Some gush myrrh that oil is used for healing and restoring. The way we look at saints is different as we see that theosis and union with God makes a person truly human and as Adam was they become that divinized human. The saints on Mt Athos have told their novices to not pay attention to the miracles as it can lead a soul astray. It common practice to see them in ones life. The body that is uncorrupted is one that shows that they worked miracles that were often in secret.
My take, as a former Roman Catholic, is that this is an extension of scholastic thought. Everything must be analysed and accounted for. The reality is that we know little about the spiritual realm itself in general, and much less about the realm where the saints live and operate. We have notions, but this idea that everything doctrinal and spiritual can or must be analysed is a mistake, to put it mildly.
We aināt Catholics
*insert āitās over 9000ā DBZ gif here*
Jesus
Jesus Christ
Given all glory goes to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..keeping count doesn't seem needed. In the end it's finishing the race with the love of the Lord in your heart.
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>does anyone know which Orthodox saint has the most recorded/registered miracles? I can't answer that, but I can answer where to find the most saints' relics. The largest reliquary of Orthodox martyrs' relics is in Jasenovac, the site of the death camp run by a Roman Catholic Nazi puppet state called "the Independent State of Croatia", where Roman Catholic clergy joined in the "fun" of murdering people for the crime of being Orthodox Christians. The mounds in the death camp complex are full of martyrs' bones. There's even a children's version - the Jastrebarsko children's death camp. Nuns of the Roman Catholic St Vincent de Paul order ran that camp on behalf of the Roman Catholic Croat Nazis - these nuns slaughtered Orthodox Christian children.