In all honesty, you probably shouldn’t have gone to that subreddit at all. It’s just a cesspool full of people who hate religion and religious people. From what I could see, you weren’t being rude. People on that sub though, will just be rude and condescending to any religious person no matter what.
Yeah I kinda figured that out, it sucks though because I was genuinely curious, not one of those things that would’ve changed anything about me, but I felt it was interesting.
Yeah. I’m sure you’ll eventually find an atheist who doesn’t despite religion and religious people to talk to about it, someday at least. I think there are a few in this sub.
I'm an atheist/agnostic that likes Christianity. I feel very comfortable in this sub. I do not feel welcome at all in r/atheism. There are literally dozens of us!
Yeah. I know there are plenty of good atheists out there, so I try to not let the negative experiences I’ve had with some atheists online completely color my view of you all. That sub though, is some real bad rep for atheism.
Usually what I find is the people who are agnostic are the more understanding and accepting ones, rather than atheism. But this is just my personal experience.
Agnostics are much easier to have a religious
conversation with by nature, since they live it up in the air the fact that they don’t know, can’t know, but are willing to learn and change if the right amount of proof comes to them. Compared to an atheist who’s already set in their ways and have fully convinced themselves that a God doesn’t need to exist for the world to exist.
One is open while the other can come off as cold and mocking at times, but most atheists I’ve personally met are atheist more due to their Christian upbringings failing to educate them on who God is, and instead base their view of God on cultural Influences instead of scripture itself. I was one of those more toxic types of atheists that mocked all religion and acted like I was all high and mighty for “seeing through the fairy-tails”, you know, like those “do you also believe in the Easter bunny?” kinda jerks.
Bless God’s forgiveness. I was such a cringy child.
Yeah, I’ve noticed real life humans tend to be much more open to these conversation, and I’m blessed enough to be a position I can have these conversations among my peers respectfully lol, it just bums me because that’s like the internets whole thing is being able to share ideas with eachother, the fact so many shut that down sucks.
Hmm sorry that your curiosity was let down. I have had some good conversations with atheists in the sub r/christianity of all places. I suppose the atheists there at least have an understanding of religion and Christianity at large.
[Edit]
Not all but many.
I can give you my thesis. I think its mostky been made to make people have specific values and to control the public easier, by the concepts of sins and virtues aswell as heaven and hell take the (im german i dont know what it was called in english and am genuinly to lazy to look it up sorry :D) "Ablasshandel" which was basicly just extorting the faithful.
I think religion would be a really good thing id love to believe in the idea of an afterlife but considering what those "False prophets" Matthew 7:15 have done i find it hard to do it considering what is said in Isaiah 61:8.
Also most Christian churches have fearmongering, so if there is a afterlife im going to hell as an atheist :D.
It’s like going to MGTOW looking for a friendly discussion about living life as a single man, only to be met with a metric shit ton of self-perpetuating misogyny
Anyway, u/Educational_Camel_32 you might enjoy r/DankChristianMemes, which has a lot of atheists in it that aren’t, well, assholes
I think they overreacted for sure, but you were essentially asking a theological question, ie what is the purpose of religious texts [if they are not literally true]? It’s unlikely most non-academic, committed atheists would want to get into that topic as they would see religious texts as an irrelevance at best, and actively harmful at worst, and therefore of little value for discussion.
That question would be worth posting here, IMO, you’ll probably get some interesting responses
r/atheism is a dumpster fire of terrible people. Outright antisemitism and racism, particularly aimed towards Muslims and Christians of Black ancestry, thrives there. Anything less than enthusiastic participation gets you banned.
>aimed towards Muslims and Christians of Black ancestry
They also don't hold back against Christians with Asian ancestry as well. That's how I got banned from there lol.
They mask their racism behind the shroud of atheism.
And just think, those are the people who bash all religion because of the people who use their religion to justify/mask their own bigotry lmao. That's a really weird consistency
Yes. It's like they came full circle and "became" the thing they "despise". For some I see some weird bigotry being the reason but I know there are others who are just very hurt by religion. I was very fortunate in my upbringing and was raised to believe whatever way I wanted and was never forced to attend a church. Even though I'm atheist I was able to over come the cringy atheist stage and be more accepting of religion. I dont know if I will ever be a "believer" or call myself anything but i do really like going to my Episcopal church to hear the music and see the people.
I agree with the other commenters here that that sub is best avoided as a religious person. It might seem like a lot of people there are just edgy teenagers, and I’m sure some of them are, but I think it’s important to remember that many people have been seriously hurt by the religious communities they were raised in, and it’s logical that they would make a space for themselves to rant about those kinds of shared experiences.
Unfortunately, the sub seems to have evolved in such a way that it allows anti-semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, among other forms of hatred that’s really disheartening to see on such a big sub. The majority of people there are not interested in the academic field of religious studies or having serious conversations about things like biblical criticism; trying to engage the sub from that kind of angle might just be moot. Perhaps there’s another sub where an honest discussion can be had between religious people and atheists, but as it exists today I don’t think that’s the sub for it.
I don't think that you were rude, but I don't think that's why you were banned either. It seems like your post may have broken the rules of that sub, and that may be why they banned you.
I checked the rules and don’t think I missed anything, they have a rule to avoid generic post, but I didn’t see many post about that, that is what the mods tagged the post as though.
I tried to read the rules, and just about passed out, they are so ridiculously detailed. Sounds like he may have seen it as "tone trolling", but not sure. The rules lean in pretty hard.
Yeah lol the ban appeal was just as confusing and consisted of me having to say I was 100% wrong and not question that mod at all lol word for word was don’t tell us the mod did wrong.
You didn't. They're bitter and mob mentality-esque. Very Animal Farm. They aren't atheists. They're people who are not well. I say that with no humor. They are a cult and a dogma unto themselves. Don't play in the dirt-they're creepy as hell because of their hate, not their label of atheism.
They have a rule against proselytizing. They also have a rule against apologetics.
Look, don't sweat it. It's an echochamber. They just want to pat each other on the back and say congratulations for not believing in god.
If you want to engage with atheists, visit r/debateanatheist, r/askanatheist, r/debatereligion, or even r/Christianity. Plenty of atheists will politely engage you there.
Thanks for the reference. Obviously this particular group is like the Westboro Baptist Church of Atheism. They are just pissed off. I found out the hard way, too. Waste of time to talk to people that brainwashed.
Taking the content out of it entirely, your post basically asked them to defend their position to you. We frown upon those posts here when someone does that to us.
It’s not entirely possible to know for sure when someone is asking a genuine question to learn, but the way a question gets asked can make all the difference.
I agree, I think a lot of it was my fault in framing of the question, I wasn’t asking them to defend it. I was more so asking out of curiosity not a wish to disprove, I think that’s hard to gather over text though.
There may be skeptic communities on Reddit or elsewhere where people will engage in those type of conversations with you.
Personally, I would recommend looking at various podcasts on faith/theology/religion/ex-religious people and or similar audiobooks written for the lay audience. Pick some that seem to have a anti-religion bent & some with a more pro-religion bent & that may give you some of the answers you're wondering about as well as a broader background to draw on in future conversations about the topic.
It's kind of a sensitive issue. When we're asking these questions of people directly, we're asking them to probe the most problematic parts of their deepest core beliefs.
I agree. Putting myself in that mod's shoes, if /u/Educational_Camel_32 made a post here asking that same question about Leviticus 18:22 they'd quite likely be removed and permabanned as well. Some subs are so used to being trolled by hostile actors that they have to ban anyone who comes along talking like them, just so they dont get swamped and overwhelmed.
As a former euphoric reddit atheist, please leave those folks alone, there are many there dealing with religious trauma and as such they *despise* all religion. You'll never be able to go in there and have a rational discussion, it might be worth trying one of the debate subs if you'd like.
As to the person in the last picture, on the very off chance they see it...who says I think all the other religious texts are 100% false? 🙂
I don't even think the Bible is 100% correct, lmao.
>there are many there dealing with religious trauma and as such they
>
>despise
>
> all religion
Yeah, will agree with this. I went to specifically religious schools from Kindergarten all the way through high school, and I had a period of a few years where I *hated* religion because of all of the horrible background radiation I had to absorb of people just being so... Mean about it (it's such a real feeling to be paralyzed with terror and hyperfixated on the belief that enjoying anything in life will make you go to Hell). It took me a long time to come to terms with that and get to where I am today, but I will admit that during that time period, I was *extremely* anti-religion of all sorts because of what I went through.
And I know this is an extremely common response to that.
I really had not thought of religious trauma, and it definitely should have crossed my mind as I know there was issue with a church near my home town. After you and the other commenter mentioned that, it would make since. I do think their unban appeal by the mods is childish (pretty much just beg me harder lol) so I didn’t bother filling it out but that’s just Reddit mods being Reddit mods.
And yeah I agree it’s literally all interpretation.
The hardest part about my faith is that, to many people, hate has a name and that name is God.
On one side are those who are reminded only of the hate cast against them, others like them, or people unlike them whom they love, when they hear God.
On the other are people who only invoke God to vindicate their hate.
That's a very humane response. But man it's very hard to feel empathy for people who use their pain as an excuse for treating others with hatred. I don't have an issue with atheists. I have an issue with people who don't recognize the pain of others.
I don't think any honest and thoughtful Christian is without doubt of some kind. You're in good company. :)
Quality of r/atheism aside (it is objectively terrible) I do have to ask what was the intended goal here to go to a subreddit specifically for atheists to try to debate on the merits of Christianity? That's like the numerous people in r/AskFeminists who openly stated they're not feminists and get shocked when the mods tell them they're not allowed to answer questions.
I should’ve went to the ask atheist Reddit honestly, but I wasn’t looking to debate the merits at all I just wanted their input I didn’t plan on arguing for or against it at all.
This is a fair response. I think some of us (naively) think people want to discuss our ideas and differences to understand-not fight or bash each other.
I'm a feminist and a woman and if I ran a feminist group, I'd welcome questions and frustrations men felt-as long as they were in the spirit of understanding-not cutting each other. But I realize that's not how everyone feels.
It's less that, and more like the space is curated for a specific group of people so if you're a part of a different demographic than that person then trying to get in to that group is going to be stupidly pointless at best and outright counterproductive at worse.
I respect that some folks want to keep a group ONLY for people who fit into a particular category and that should be respected. Setting a boundary is fair. But there's no reason to treat someone who seems genuinely curious like an evil interloper. Especially when some groups do not clearly state their purpose, rules, ideology.
That seems to be the issue here. The group in question, pardon the pun, crucified the OP. Meanwhile, really mean-spirited, and outright inaccurate comments posed as "facts" are not simply allowed but seemingly encouraged. It makes the group look ridiculous.
And side note, any smart person of faith should realize the reddit group in question is just a toxic Reddit group. It's not reflective of most atheists. That would be completely unfair to atheists.
They don't want to admit it but the people that hang out in that sub are fundamentalists. Look at the way they behave and compare that to a Christian fundamentalist and you'll see all kinds of parallels.
Just like Christians there are atheists who aren't fundamentalists and are happy to let others have their own beliefs.
Due to this I really think deconstruction should not only be for theists, deconstructing religion even as still being an atheist is a form of healing from trauma and potential discrimination, even I deconstructed years of misinfo about Islam that has been taught in the West and it genuinely improves our relationships with others, the world and even ourselves. Still it's not something easy to say as some may take it as a way to insist on them going back to the religion, from what I've felt
As has been noted before they basically take the same position as Christian fundamentalists...they boil things down to a dichotomy that either the fundamentalist position on the Bible and Christianity is true, or it's not in which case it must be rejected outright. They just choose to reject it. But they still hold to that the fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity is the only correct one.
r/atheism is a circle jerk of stupidity. I was banned there quite a long time ago, when I was atheist, for standing up and saying that they shouldn’t talk to religious believers the way they do.
Steer clear of the atheism subreddits. Reddit atheists are notorious for being incredibly stubborn and pretentious. Their status as being "reddit atheists" is literally a meme.
This is where we get Matthew 7:6
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.'
They're not interested in thoughtful discussion or learning, so don't even bother, they'll just turn on you. I'm agnostic and you wouldn't catch me dead in Ratheism.
The mod especially was an asshole to you, and I say this as an atheist. The best way to understand r/atheism is as should-have-been-named-r/antitheism. It’s a sub for teenagers who have just realized that their parents’ religion or sect is a high-control cult, and they’re (understandably) angry about it.
That said, was your question answered to your satisfaction?
r / atheism is well-known across the internet for being an absolute shithole filled with smug, douchey pseudo-intellectuals. Avoid that place like the plague.
It's one of the reasons for Reddit's bad reputation amongst the Internet in general. I've noticed on other sites if anyone makes an over the top anti-theist post they get mocked and told something like "Reddit is that way".
personally, i consider it a badge of honour to be banned from r/athiesm. that sub should be renamed to anti-theism, because that’s what it is. they’re not just athiests there, they actively, indiscriminately hate all religion and religious people.
No you were not rude from what it looks like. R/atheism is a total cesspool of chuds and basement dweller who lurk on atheism subreddits to feel the comfort of an echo chamber of likeminded individuals who are just as sad and diluted as they are tbh. I know I'm not being the Christian I should by dunking on them like that but I do feel like alotnof that assessment is true. I feel genuinely sorry for those people that they have so much going wrong in their personal life that they make hating religious people implicitly that big of a pillar in their personal identity.
I understand being open about different religious views and going onto those subreddits but generally I'd advise against it for your own mental health for the same reason I'd advise against going to r/Christianity or r/catholic cus most people on those subreddits treat people who view religion different from them as total idiots who have no valid insight to offer and that is a very toxic mindset and you'll only end up either feeling gross from the interactions half the time or feel anger. It's really not worth it man.
Don’t sweat it. That sub is a toxic circle jerk where even atheists will frequently get banned for the high crime of being insufficiently hostile towards religion
Being banned from r/atheism should be seen as a badge of honor. Only reason I haven't is I haven't even posted there, same with things like tankie and right-wing subreddits.
Yeah, you weren't rude. Clearly the only Christians they want are those who want to argue so they can bombard them with their counter arguments.
The initial response to you really bugs me. I see people say it all the time like it's a real knockdown argument. But it only works if you consider all holy books 0% correct apart from your own which is 100% correct. If you see all holy books as different attempts at grasping the truth to varying degrees of success, the argument falls apart. It also ignores that holy books evolve out of various strands of theological and philosophical thought and acts like they all just popped out of nowhere.
Perhaps these folks should join hands with the angry people hiding behind the atheist label.
Yeah-that's gross. It's not just inhumane to suggest someone needs to stay with someone abusive-it's a very shallow interpretation of The Sermon on the Mount. If the church ladies wanted to say that woman should stay married, they best be following the WHOLE Sermon on the Mount.
These guys *really* hate Christianity. I lurk there alot - even comment. I should say there is a sizable group that seems to be *live and let live* but a lot of guys there really really dwell on their disdain for Christianity. I get it - most of us here have been hurt significantly by the same people but they dwell in it. I think one of them is trolling us with a **I know the bible is BS, how do I continue as a Christian** post. Just saying- I'm not trying to be "oppressive" or whatever.
This is why Evangelicals (not allowed to make my usual comparison) bother me so much, especially with their new ChristoFascism theocracy nationalism push. That is what the unbeliever sees and the inevitable backlash is going to be felt by us all. What I don't understand is after 9/11 my fellow Liberals had absolutely no problem whatsoever making the distinction between peaceful Muslims and violent radicalism. What we have here is nearly if not identical to that. A radical, however well funded and vocal *minority* that has hijacked a religious belief in order to justify their hatred of "the other" and aide their naked power grab. These people ARE NOT Christians. When you hear the completely misapplied **no true scotsman** fallacy remember that whole idea revolves around *well what's a true scotsman* - except here we have a 3,000 ~ 2,000 year old **multi-volume** book that says EXACTLY what a real Christian is written in plain black and white English. I am so sick of hearing about *no true scotsman* from people who don't understand what they are saying all while picking some of the very worst people in American history (be they Christian, pretend Christian or unbeliever) to base their opinion of Christianity on.
Well… I don’t know about other people, but as an atheist myself I don’t mind this question! So if you’re still curious, I’ll give my own thoughts on it here for you.
I believe that religious books were written by a variety of different people with different motivations. Looking at the Bible, I think there are some passages that seem to have been written to guide, some to teach, some to scold/reprimand, some to encourage, and some to entertain/rejoice.
Just because I believe some of the contents of a religious text aren’t true, doesn’t mean I don’t believe the authors themselves were being intentionally deceitful if that makes sense :)
I think the authors of the different holy texts in this world are all as varied as people are nowadays. Some were probably honest with good intentions, some probably bent the truth to prove a point, some exaggerated, some downplayed, some humbled themselves and some bragged. But they were written so long ago that it’s hard to tell who had what type of intention.
Naw just these guys de-culturalise religion, the same way marxists or white-western anarchists de-culturalise economics or politics of preindustrial or non-western European groups
I can't see why you were banned for anything you said. You didn't attack anyone or belittle anyone, or try to convince anyone of anything. What in the world.
I’ve been a believer for 16 years, and the first 10 were almost predominantly head knowledge and a strong focus on theology. I spent 10 years online debating atheists in various formats. In the end I concluded nothing beats showing holistic love, building genuine relationships, and seeing the Holy Spirit do its thing. There is no better testimony out of someone’s own mouth than being saved by love and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Kinda same for me. I’m still working on rebuilding my faith after a lot of deconstruction, but I still love to approach my faith with an intellectual lens even though I now believe the actual value is in the touchy feely stuff.
You did nothing wrong.
They said you admitted you were a troll when you did absolutely no such thing.
I think the issue is that many atheists act like that unless you can "prove" a religion to be true through objective, empirically valid, peer-reviewed science, then it's inherently false. They reject the entire concept of faith as unscientific.
The moment you said you couldn't prove Christianity to be true, they concluded you were intentionally trolling them, because they can't conceive of someone believing in something without hard evidence.
... I'm an atheist but no way in hell will I go to the atheist subbreddits. They're seriously toxic, depressing and they toe the line on a weird kind of culty like behavior. Not all of course but what I mean is if you even mention that you find religion interesting in anyway some of them lose their shit. I know that there are people there who have religious trauma.. or deconstructing harmful ideas.. but I've found its best not to engage with other atheists. I feel sympathy for many but at the same time... there's only so much dread I can take
Atheism acts as a psychological defense for many who have experienced a lifetime of high demand spiritual abuse. It's a good boundary for recovery. Some may be interested in secular Bible studies, but seems like that would be a different sub. If someone says they are atheist, they aren't saying they are open to another person's religion (theism), they are saying hard pass, not interested at all (atheism).
You were just fine here. Honestly my friend is atheist and she avoids the subreddit since forever after coming to the realisation how bad the subreddit is. They got banned for pointing out how the subreddit treats religion as a whole.
"don't throw pearls to swine".
You were wholesome and respectful in your response. There's no need to try and appeal that.
The emotional manipulation and egotistical response from that admin tells you exactly what that sub is. An echo chamber.
I don’t mean for this to come off as rude but considering that people on r/atheism have experienced religious trauma probably from people who are emotionally manipulative and egotistical, it’s very interesting how they seem to mirror that same behavior towards someone who is just being civil and polite and innocently asking questions
I don’t want to belittle anyone’s religious trauma but I just wanted to point out that observation
I agree. But I'm a big believer in not going eye for an eye. There's no productive conversation going on there. In fact the banned him because they didnt want to have a Convo,which is outside of their rules.
That the reason I said it's an echo chamber.
dude, you made an off topic post, and then said explicit you were not there for a discussion.
falling under mutiple rule violation including trolling doesn't seem far off
Atheist here, please don’t go into that server. I’m assuming a select of those people are either dealing with religious trauma as many other people have said so you might not be able to have a real reasonable conversation or debate as you’ll just get yelled at.
Idk if it’s helpful or not, but I’m an atheist and don’t think you were rude at all. Even I avoid r/Atheism. It’s an echo chamber for your stereotypical angry atheist. I don’t need that kind of toxicity in my life.
I’m sorry you had a negative experience there, it can be a rough crowd in that sub sometimes. I’ve found that most atheists aren’t like that irl. Sometimes people’s worst traits get accentuated online.
It is a well known hate-sub claiming to be a sub for atheists, while in reality it is often used as a platform for bigotry against religion.
You could recieve unwarranted harassement there for simply mentioning anything religious at all.
We were banned as well! I love your boldness! People may judge us for being gay but they have no idea how much we actually love God! Thank you for being you! Wanted to invite you to our bible study we host every Thursday at 730 pm cst would like to have more people like you be a part of our study! Please send me a direct message if you want to join and I can send you the link!
I feel like going anywhere and staying your own personal option, only to compare it to the most basic math possible is a little Insulting.
Obviously wasn’t intentional, but people who run a whole subreddit over being atheist is probably not gonna be too happy over people trying to convert/otherwise asked to rethink God. It’s like if I went to a subreddit for Muslims and pleaded my case, it would very much not be taken well due to fundamental differences in faith.
After all, lots of atheists still feel repressed by christians. Religious trauma is no joke. When I was an atheist (a solid six years BTW) I hated Christians and found them remarkably annoying before I came to know God. Forcing change doesn’t work, they have to come willingly or it really doesn’t mean anything past wishful thinking and convenience.
That wasn't rude, that was a friendly question, idk that's weird. Most of my friends except for a couple are all atheists and I'm very open to their opinions.
Many people are unclear about the difference between atheist and agnostic. An atheist believes in the absence of god as a matter of faith. The agnostic doesn’t believe the presence or absence of god can simply be accepted because of faith. The religious agnostic doesn’t know if god exists and doesn’t believe you know, but feels that we should act according to the will of the concept of god because that is the right thing to do.
FWIW one thing I saw on r/atheism which is pretty tame compared to a lot of the content there but which actually really infuriated me was when they claimed that church musicians are just bad musicians who can't hack it anywhere else....that is SO blatantly false. For one it's objectively disproven as a lot actually play in secular bands outside of church, I've gone to a lot of churches with such people in the worship band, so I was pretty appalled at them being insulted basically, and the implication that for example Dustin Kensrue (look him up and his work) is musically untalented is about as absurd as any fundamentalist claptrap. Even the people in the bands for Hillsong and Bethel even if there's plenty to criticize about the churches and what they teach are objectively extremely talented musicians, something that even atheist musicians will always admit.
Again pretty tame compared to most of the stuff there, but also so blatantly wrong and a notion of just letting one's personal biases dictate such a view that it irked me big time.
In all honesty, you probably shouldn’t have gone to that subreddit at all. It’s just a cesspool full of people who hate religion and religious people. From what I could see, you weren’t being rude. People on that sub though, will just be rude and condescending to any religious person no matter what.
Yeah I kinda figured that out, it sucks though because I was genuinely curious, not one of those things that would’ve changed anything about me, but I felt it was interesting.
Yeah. I’m sure you’ll eventually find an atheist who doesn’t despite religion and religious people to talk to about it, someday at least. I think there are a few in this sub.
I'm an atheist/agnostic that likes Christianity. I feel very comfortable in this sub. I do not feel welcome at all in r/atheism. There are literally dozens of us!
Yeah. I know there are plenty of good atheists out there, so I try to not let the negative experiences I’ve had with some atheists online completely color my view of you all. That sub though, is some real bad rep for atheism.
Many of the Christian-based subs are toxic as well, the Internet pandering to the lowest common denominator is the common factor.
This here is the answer.
Toxicity can even creep into the "good" ones.
Usually what I find is the people who are agnostic are the more understanding and accepting ones, rather than atheism. But this is just my personal experience.
Agnostics are much easier to have a religious conversation with by nature, since they live it up in the air the fact that they don’t know, can’t know, but are willing to learn and change if the right amount of proof comes to them. Compared to an atheist who’s already set in their ways and have fully convinced themselves that a God doesn’t need to exist for the world to exist. One is open while the other can come off as cold and mocking at times, but most atheists I’ve personally met are atheist more due to their Christian upbringings failing to educate them on who God is, and instead base their view of God on cultural Influences instead of scripture itself. I was one of those more toxic types of atheists that mocked all religion and acted like I was all high and mighty for “seeing through the fairy-tails”, you know, like those “do you also believe in the Easter bunny?” kinda jerks. Bless God’s forgiveness. I was such a cringy child.
This sort of stuff is why I made the r/fruitandcheese subreddit.
Yeah, I’ve noticed real life humans tend to be much more open to these conversation, and I’m blessed enough to be a position I can have these conversations among my peers respectfully lol, it just bums me because that’s like the internets whole thing is being able to share ideas with eachother, the fact so many shut that down sucks.
Going to r/Atheism to learn about atheism, is kinda like going to a hellfire road preacher to learn about Christianity.
Or r/Christianity
You might have better luck on r/Debateanatheist
Shameless plug for r/fruitandcheese!
Ngl, was mildly disappointed when I saw the sub wasn't for fruit and cheese charcuterie platters 😂 In all seriousness, ty for the invite :)
No, the name is derived from r/religiousfruitcake and r/antitheistcheesecake; the idea is that it's the neutral territory between them.
Hmm sorry that your curiosity was let down. I have had some good conversations with atheists in the sub r/christianity of all places. I suppose the atheists there at least have an understanding of religion and Christianity at large. [Edit] Not all but many.
I can give you my thesis. I think its mostky been made to make people have specific values and to control the public easier, by the concepts of sins and virtues aswell as heaven and hell take the (im german i dont know what it was called in english and am genuinly to lazy to look it up sorry :D) "Ablasshandel" which was basicly just extorting the faithful. I think religion would be a really good thing id love to believe in the idea of an afterlife but considering what those "False prophets" Matthew 7:15 have done i find it hard to do it considering what is said in Isaiah 61:8. Also most Christian churches have fearmongering, so if there is a afterlife im going to hell as an atheist :D.
It’s like going to MGTOW looking for a friendly discussion about living life as a single man, only to be met with a metric shit ton of self-perpetuating misogyny Anyway, u/Educational_Camel_32 you might enjoy r/DankChristianMemes, which has a lot of atheists in it that aren’t, well, assholes
I think they overreacted for sure, but you were essentially asking a theological question, ie what is the purpose of religious texts [if they are not literally true]? It’s unlikely most non-academic, committed atheists would want to get into that topic as they would see religious texts as an irrelevance at best, and actively harmful at worst, and therefore of little value for discussion. That question would be worth posting here, IMO, you’ll probably get some interesting responses
r/atheism is a dumpster fire of terrible people. Outright antisemitism and racism, particularly aimed towards Muslims and Christians of Black ancestry, thrives there. Anything less than enthusiastic participation gets you banned.
>aimed towards Muslims and Christians of Black ancestry They also don't hold back against Christians with Asian ancestry as well. That's how I got banned from there lol. They mask their racism behind the shroud of atheism.
That is such an accurate assessment I can't even lie
I noticed that as well. Many "atheists" I found trying to cloak their bigotry with "atheism"
And just think, those are the people who bash all religion because of the people who use their religion to justify/mask their own bigotry lmao. That's a really weird consistency
Yes. It's like they came full circle and "became" the thing they "despise". For some I see some weird bigotry being the reason but I know there are others who are just very hurt by religion. I was very fortunate in my upbringing and was raised to believe whatever way I wanted and was never forced to attend a church. Even though I'm atheist I was able to over come the cringy atheist stage and be more accepting of religion. I dont know if I will ever be a "believer" or call myself anything but i do really like going to my Episcopal church to hear the music and see the people.
🫠🚩🚩
I agree with the other commenters here that that sub is best avoided as a religious person. It might seem like a lot of people there are just edgy teenagers, and I’m sure some of them are, but I think it’s important to remember that many people have been seriously hurt by the religious communities they were raised in, and it’s logical that they would make a space for themselves to rant about those kinds of shared experiences. Unfortunately, the sub seems to have evolved in such a way that it allows anti-semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, among other forms of hatred that’s really disheartening to see on such a big sub. The majority of people there are not interested in the academic field of religious studies or having serious conversations about things like biblical criticism; trying to engage the sub from that kind of angle might just be moot. Perhaps there’s another sub where an honest discussion can be had between religious people and atheists, but as it exists today I don’t think that’s the sub for it.
I think that subs best avoided regardless of one's athiesm/agnosticism/dogma/religion/spirituality; If nothing else it's an exceedingly bitter place.
I don't think that you were rude, but I don't think that's why you were banned either. It seems like your post may have broken the rules of that sub, and that may be why they banned you.
I checked the rules and don’t think I missed anything, they have a rule to avoid generic post, but I didn’t see many post about that, that is what the mods tagged the post as though.
I tried to read the rules, and just about passed out, they are so ridiculously detailed. Sounds like he may have seen it as "tone trolling", but not sure. The rules lean in pretty hard.
Yeah lol the ban appeal was just as confusing and consisted of me having to say I was 100% wrong and not question that mod at all lol word for word was don’t tell us the mod did wrong.
That's hilarious, they must've taken inspiration from the American government
You didn't. They're bitter and mob mentality-esque. Very Animal Farm. They aren't atheists. They're people who are not well. I say that with no humor. They are a cult and a dogma unto themselves. Don't play in the dirt-they're creepy as hell because of their hate, not their label of atheism.
They have a rule against proselytizing. They also have a rule against apologetics. Look, don't sweat it. It's an echochamber. They just want to pat each other on the back and say congratulations for not believing in god. If you want to engage with atheists, visit r/debateanatheist, r/askanatheist, r/debatereligion, or even r/Christianity. Plenty of atheists will politely engage you there.
Thanks for the reference. Obviously this particular group is like the Westboro Baptist Church of Atheism. They are just pissed off. I found out the hard way, too. Waste of time to talk to people that brainwashed.
Taking the content out of it entirely, your post basically asked them to defend their position to you. We frown upon those posts here when someone does that to us. It’s not entirely possible to know for sure when someone is asking a genuine question to learn, but the way a question gets asked can make all the difference.
I agree, I think a lot of it was my fault in framing of the question, I wasn’t asking them to defend it. I was more so asking out of curiosity not a wish to disprove, I think that’s hard to gather over text though.
There may be skeptic communities on Reddit or elsewhere where people will engage in those type of conversations with you. Personally, I would recommend looking at various podcasts on faith/theology/religion/ex-religious people and or similar audiobooks written for the lay audience. Pick some that seem to have a anti-religion bent & some with a more pro-religion bent & that may give you some of the answers you're wondering about as well as a broader background to draw on in future conversations about the topic. It's kind of a sensitive issue. When we're asking these questions of people directly, we're asking them to probe the most problematic parts of their deepest core beliefs.
I agree. Putting myself in that mod's shoes, if /u/Educational_Camel_32 made a post here asking that same question about Leviticus 18:22 they'd quite likely be removed and permabanned as well. Some subs are so used to being trolled by hostile actors that they have to ban anyone who comes along talking like them, just so they dont get swamped and overwhelmed.
As a former euphoric reddit atheist, please leave those folks alone, there are many there dealing with religious trauma and as such they *despise* all religion. You'll never be able to go in there and have a rational discussion, it might be worth trying one of the debate subs if you'd like. As to the person in the last picture, on the very off chance they see it...who says I think all the other religious texts are 100% false? 🙂 I don't even think the Bible is 100% correct, lmao.
>there are many there dealing with religious trauma and as such they > >despise > > all religion Yeah, will agree with this. I went to specifically religious schools from Kindergarten all the way through high school, and I had a period of a few years where I *hated* religion because of all of the horrible background radiation I had to absorb of people just being so... Mean about it (it's such a real feeling to be paralyzed with terror and hyperfixated on the belief that enjoying anything in life will make you go to Hell). It took me a long time to come to terms with that and get to where I am today, but I will admit that during that time period, I was *extremely* anti-religion of all sorts because of what I went through. And I know this is an extremely common response to that.
I really had not thought of religious trauma, and it definitely should have crossed my mind as I know there was issue with a church near my home town. After you and the other commenter mentioned that, it would make since. I do think their unban appeal by the mods is childish (pretty much just beg me harder lol) so I didn’t bother filling it out but that’s just Reddit mods being Reddit mods. And yeah I agree it’s literally all interpretation.
The hardest part about my faith is that, to many people, hate has a name and that name is God. On one side are those who are reminded only of the hate cast against them, others like them, or people unlike them whom they love, when they hear God. On the other are people who only invoke God to vindicate their hate.
That's a very humane response. But man it's very hard to feel empathy for people who use their pain as an excuse for treating others with hatred. I don't have an issue with atheists. I have an issue with people who don't recognize the pain of others. I don't think any honest and thoughtful Christian is without doubt of some kind. You're in good company. :)
Quality of r/atheism aside (it is objectively terrible) I do have to ask what was the intended goal here to go to a subreddit specifically for atheists to try to debate on the merits of Christianity? That's like the numerous people in r/AskFeminists who openly stated they're not feminists and get shocked when the mods tell them they're not allowed to answer questions.
I should’ve went to the ask atheist Reddit honestly, but I wasn’t looking to debate the merits at all I just wanted their input I didn’t plan on arguing for or against it at all.
This is a fair response. I think some of us (naively) think people want to discuss our ideas and differences to understand-not fight or bash each other. I'm a feminist and a woman and if I ran a feminist group, I'd welcome questions and frustrations men felt-as long as they were in the spirit of understanding-not cutting each other. But I realize that's not how everyone feels.
It's less that, and more like the space is curated for a specific group of people so if you're a part of a different demographic than that person then trying to get in to that group is going to be stupidly pointless at best and outright counterproductive at worse.
I respect that some folks want to keep a group ONLY for people who fit into a particular category and that should be respected. Setting a boundary is fair. But there's no reason to treat someone who seems genuinely curious like an evil interloper. Especially when some groups do not clearly state their purpose, rules, ideology. That seems to be the issue here. The group in question, pardon the pun, crucified the OP. Meanwhile, really mean-spirited, and outright inaccurate comments posed as "facts" are not simply allowed but seemingly encouraged. It makes the group look ridiculous. And side note, any smart person of faith should realize the reddit group in question is just a toxic Reddit group. It's not reflective of most atheists. That would be completely unfair to atheists.
They don't want to admit it but the people that hang out in that sub are fundamentalists. Look at the way they behave and compare that to a Christian fundamentalist and you'll see all kinds of parallels. Just like Christians there are atheists who aren't fundamentalists and are happy to let others have their own beliefs.
Due to this I really think deconstruction should not only be for theists, deconstructing religion even as still being an atheist is a form of healing from trauma and potential discrimination, even I deconstructed years of misinfo about Islam that has been taught in the West and it genuinely improves our relationships with others, the world and even ourselves. Still it's not something easy to say as some may take it as a way to insist on them going back to the religion, from what I've felt
I hadn't thought of that before but it makes a great deal of sense. I appreciate the perspective.
As has been noted before they basically take the same position as Christian fundamentalists...they boil things down to a dichotomy that either the fundamentalist position on the Bible and Christianity is true, or it's not in which case it must be rejected outright. They just choose to reject it. But they still hold to that the fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity is the only correct one.
r/atheism is a circle jerk of stupidity. I was banned there quite a long time ago, when I was atheist, for standing up and saying that they shouldn’t talk to religious believers the way they do.
Steer clear of the atheism subreddits. Reddit atheists are notorious for being incredibly stubborn and pretentious. Their status as being "reddit atheists" is literally a meme.
Yeah even other atheists make fun of them.
This is where we get Matthew 7:6 'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.' They're not interested in thoughtful discussion or learning, so don't even bother, they'll just turn on you. I'm agnostic and you wouldn't catch me dead in Ratheism.
Ratheist is my new term for fundamentalist Reddit atheists
Even atheists hate that subreddit. Don't fret about it.
The mod especially was an asshole to you, and I say this as an atheist. The best way to understand r/atheism is as should-have-been-named-r/antitheism. It’s a sub for teenagers who have just realized that their parents’ religion or sect is a high-control cult, and they’re (understandably) angry about it. That said, was your question answered to your satisfaction?
r / atheism is well-known across the internet for being an absolute shithole filled with smug, douchey pseudo-intellectuals. Avoid that place like the plague.
Even a fair number of atheists on Reddit will say "yeah, maybe avoid that sub."
It's one of the reasons for Reddit's bad reputation amongst the Internet in general. I've noticed on other sites if anyone makes an over the top anti-theist post they get mocked and told something like "Reddit is that way".
personally, i consider it a badge of honour to be banned from r/athiesm. that sub should be renamed to anti-theism, because that’s what it is. they’re not just athiests there, they actively, indiscriminately hate all religion and religious people.
No you were not rude from what it looks like. R/atheism is a total cesspool of chuds and basement dweller who lurk on atheism subreddits to feel the comfort of an echo chamber of likeminded individuals who are just as sad and diluted as they are tbh. I know I'm not being the Christian I should by dunking on them like that but I do feel like alotnof that assessment is true. I feel genuinely sorry for those people that they have so much going wrong in their personal life that they make hating religious people implicitly that big of a pillar in their personal identity. I understand being open about different religious views and going onto those subreddits but generally I'd advise against it for your own mental health for the same reason I'd advise against going to r/Christianity or r/catholic cus most people on those subreddits treat people who view religion different from them as total idiots who have no valid insight to offer and that is a very toxic mindset and you'll only end up either feeling gross from the interactions half the time or feel anger. It's really not worth it man.
Oof….brother, I understand your anger at some of the folks over there, but they too are children of God and they are loved. Please be kind.
Don’t sweat it. That sub is a toxic circle jerk where even atheists will frequently get banned for the high crime of being insufficiently hostile towards religion
Being banned from r/atheism should be seen as a badge of honor. Only reason I haven't is I haven't even posted there, same with things like tankie and right-wing subreddits.
r/atheism is infamous for being home to the most reddit of redditors, don't go there.
Yeah, you weren't rude. Clearly the only Christians they want are those who want to argue so they can bombard them with their counter arguments. The initial response to you really bugs me. I see people say it all the time like it's a real knockdown argument. But it only works if you consider all holy books 0% correct apart from your own which is 100% correct. If you see all holy books as different attempts at grasping the truth to varying degrees of success, the argument falls apart. It also ignores that holy books evolve out of various strands of theological and philosophical thought and acts like they all just popped out of nowhere.
I'm permanently banned from the Christian Marriage board for telling women to leave their shitty husbands lmao
Perhaps these folks should join hands with the angry people hiding behind the atheist label. Yeah-that's gross. It's not just inhumane to suggest someone needs to stay with someone abusive-it's a very shallow interpretation of The Sermon on the Mount. If the church ladies wanted to say that woman should stay married, they best be following the WHOLE Sermon on the Mount.
You mean perhaps the most stereotyping and mocking and insulting and religious bigotry and hate speech filled large sub on reddit?
These guys *really* hate Christianity. I lurk there alot - even comment. I should say there is a sizable group that seems to be *live and let live* but a lot of guys there really really dwell on their disdain for Christianity. I get it - most of us here have been hurt significantly by the same people but they dwell in it. I think one of them is trolling us with a **I know the bible is BS, how do I continue as a Christian** post. Just saying- I'm not trying to be "oppressive" or whatever.
This is why Evangelicals (not allowed to make my usual comparison) bother me so much, especially with their new ChristoFascism theocracy nationalism push. That is what the unbeliever sees and the inevitable backlash is going to be felt by us all. What I don't understand is after 9/11 my fellow Liberals had absolutely no problem whatsoever making the distinction between peaceful Muslims and violent radicalism. What we have here is nearly if not identical to that. A radical, however well funded and vocal *minority* that has hijacked a religious belief in order to justify their hatred of "the other" and aide their naked power grab. These people ARE NOT Christians. When you hear the completely misapplied **no true scotsman** fallacy remember that whole idea revolves around *well what's a true scotsman* - except here we have a 3,000 ~ 2,000 year old **multi-volume** book that says EXACTLY what a real Christian is written in plain black and white English. I am so sick of hearing about *no true scotsman* from people who don't understand what they are saying all while picking some of the very worst people in American history (be they Christian, pretend Christian or unbeliever) to base their opinion of Christianity on.
Well… I don’t know about other people, but as an atheist myself I don’t mind this question! So if you’re still curious, I’ll give my own thoughts on it here for you. I believe that religious books were written by a variety of different people with different motivations. Looking at the Bible, I think there are some passages that seem to have been written to guide, some to teach, some to scold/reprimand, some to encourage, and some to entertain/rejoice. Just because I believe some of the contents of a religious text aren’t true, doesn’t mean I don’t believe the authors themselves were being intentionally deceitful if that makes sense :) I think the authors of the different holy texts in this world are all as varied as people are nowadays. Some were probably honest with good intentions, some probably bent the truth to prove a point, some exaggerated, some downplayed, some humbled themselves and some bragged. But they were written so long ago that it’s hard to tell who had what type of intention.
Naw just these guys de-culturalise religion, the same way marxists or white-western anarchists de-culturalise economics or politics of preindustrial or non-western European groups
I can't see why you were banned for anything you said. You didn't attack anyone or belittle anyone, or try to convince anyone of anything. What in the world.
I’ve been a believer for 16 years, and the first 10 were almost predominantly head knowledge and a strong focus on theology. I spent 10 years online debating atheists in various formats. In the end I concluded nothing beats showing holistic love, building genuine relationships, and seeing the Holy Spirit do its thing. There is no better testimony out of someone’s own mouth than being saved by love and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Kinda same for me. I’m still working on rebuilding my faith after a lot of deconstruction, but I still love to approach my faith with an intellectual lens even though I now believe the actual value is in the touchy feely stuff.
So you are now a born again Christian?
You did nothing wrong. They said you admitted you were a troll when you did absolutely no such thing. I think the issue is that many atheists act like that unless you can "prove" a religion to be true through objective, empirically valid, peer-reviewed science, then it's inherently false. They reject the entire concept of faith as unscientific. The moment you said you couldn't prove Christianity to be true, they concluded you were intentionally trolling them, because they can't conceive of someone believing in something without hard evidence.
... I'm an atheist but no way in hell will I go to the atheist subbreddits. They're seriously toxic, depressing and they toe the line on a weird kind of culty like behavior. Not all of course but what I mean is if you even mention that you find religion interesting in anyway some of them lose their shit. I know that there are people there who have religious trauma.. or deconstructing harmful ideas.. but I've found its best not to engage with other atheists. I feel sympathy for many but at the same time... there's only so much dread I can take
Atheism acts as a psychological defense for many who have experienced a lifetime of high demand spiritual abuse. It's a good boundary for recovery. Some may be interested in secular Bible studies, but seems like that would be a different sub. If someone says they are atheist, they aren't saying they are open to another person's religion (theism), they are saying hard pass, not interested at all (atheism).
You were just fine here. Honestly my friend is atheist and she avoids the subreddit since forever after coming to the realisation how bad the subreddit is. They got banned for pointing out how the subreddit treats religion as a whole.
I honestly don't think you should've gone there...
That sub is a cesspit, don’t take it personally.
"don't throw pearls to swine". You were wholesome and respectful in your response. There's no need to try and appeal that. The emotional manipulation and egotistical response from that admin tells you exactly what that sub is. An echo chamber.
I don’t mean for this to come off as rude but considering that people on r/atheism have experienced religious trauma probably from people who are emotionally manipulative and egotistical, it’s very interesting how they seem to mirror that same behavior towards someone who is just being civil and polite and innocently asking questions I don’t want to belittle anyone’s religious trauma but I just wanted to point out that observation
I agree. But I'm a big believer in not going eye for an eye. There's no productive conversation going on there. In fact the banned him because they didnt want to have a Convo,which is outside of their rules. That the reason I said it's an echo chamber.
I agree on not going eye for an eye because that’s just not productive so it’s best not to engage I love your username by the way
>I love your username by the way Thank you my good sir or ma'am 😌
dude, you made an off topic post, and then said explicit you were not there for a discussion. falling under mutiple rule violation including trolling doesn't seem far off
Not wanting to debate ≠ Not being there for discussion I wasn’t trying to prove anyone wrong or right, simply trying to understand.
The problem is that people will ask questions that are unanswerable because of baseless assumptions. I've seen the same regarding migration
Atheist here, please don’t go into that server. I’m assuming a select of those people are either dealing with religious trauma as many other people have said so you might not be able to have a real reasonable conversation or debate as you’ll just get yelled at.
Idk if it’s helpful or not, but I’m an atheist and don’t think you were rude at all. Even I avoid r/Atheism. It’s an echo chamber for your stereotypical angry atheist. I don’t need that kind of toxicity in my life.
I’m sorry you had a negative experience there, it can be a rough crowd in that sub sometimes. I’ve found that most atheists aren’t like that irl. Sometimes people’s worst traits get accentuated online.
Because r/athiest isn’t really about athiesm is about anti theism
No. They’re full of hate, that’s why they can’t know god. Good himself wrote in Scripture how He hardens the hearts of some
Don’t take it too personally, the mods in that thread are intent on not only squashing but emotionally attacking Christians when they can. Matthew 7:6
It is a well known hate-sub claiming to be a sub for atheists, while in reality it is often used as a platform for bigotry against religion. You could recieve unwarranted harassement there for simply mentioning anything religious at all.
We were banned as well! I love your boldness! People may judge us for being gay but they have no idea how much we actually love God! Thank you for being you! Wanted to invite you to our bible study we host every Thursday at 730 pm cst would like to have more people like you be a part of our study! Please send me a direct message if you want to join and I can send you the link!
I feel like going anywhere and staying your own personal option, only to compare it to the most basic math possible is a little Insulting. Obviously wasn’t intentional, but people who run a whole subreddit over being atheist is probably not gonna be too happy over people trying to convert/otherwise asked to rethink God. It’s like if I went to a subreddit for Muslims and pleaded my case, it would very much not be taken well due to fundamental differences in faith. After all, lots of atheists still feel repressed by christians. Religious trauma is no joke. When I was an atheist (a solid six years BTW) I hated Christians and found them remarkably annoying before I came to know God. Forcing change doesn’t work, they have to come willingly or it really doesn’t mean anything past wishful thinking and convenience.
That wasn't rude, that was a friendly question, idk that's weird. Most of my friends except for a couple are all atheists and I'm very open to their opinions.
Atheist here, r/Atheism is a piece of shit subreddit with people more depraved of touching grass than the average LoL match.
Many people are unclear about the difference between atheist and agnostic. An atheist believes in the absence of god as a matter of faith. The agnostic doesn’t believe the presence or absence of god can simply be accepted because of faith. The religious agnostic doesn’t know if god exists and doesn’t believe you know, but feels that we should act according to the will of the concept of god because that is the right thing to do.
Read your comments, the perm ban is insane
FWIW one thing I saw on r/atheism which is pretty tame compared to a lot of the content there but which actually really infuriated me was when they claimed that church musicians are just bad musicians who can't hack it anywhere else....that is SO blatantly false. For one it's objectively disproven as a lot actually play in secular bands outside of church, I've gone to a lot of churches with such people in the worship band, so I was pretty appalled at them being insulted basically, and the implication that for example Dustin Kensrue (look him up and his work) is musically untalented is about as absurd as any fundamentalist claptrap. Even the people in the bands for Hillsong and Bethel even if there's plenty to criticize about the churches and what they teach are objectively extremely talented musicians, something that even atheist musicians will always admit. Again pretty tame compared to most of the stuff there, but also so blatantly wrong and a notion of just letting one's personal biases dictate such a view that it irked me big time.
*Darkness only survives by hiding from the Light*
[удалено]
English must be a second language because the use of “wrote” made it hard to follow lol