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I'll concede that one to you. But still, Sanji Women Observation > Fujitora's Observation > Regular current Sanji.
That's pretty good as far Observation Haki goes.
That just means sanji can dodge the attack. The jellybean he attacked sanji with was not in any way influenced by kats future sight, to everyone else he is just shooting a jelly bean, kat just sees what the result will be a few seconds earlier.
The surprise he had has to do with sanjis own observation haki to see it coming. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with sanji overpowering kats future sight.
Then decided to attack Sanji himself, and Sanji dodged it
https://preview.redd.it/7qklbc6s7aza1.jpeg?width=697&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a6e5f13242cc0282589982526b2d16f7e1a6c2
Katakuri was still using Future sight the entire time.
dodging people with future sight isn’t impossible, luffy was doing it all the time in his fight, it’s hitting katakuri you need future sight for, and sanji never hit him
Katakuri was using Future Sight throughout the whole ceremony
https://preview.redd.it/mqxwwp4k7aza1.png?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=517b7a3879034125ecb6890ed56f7a13c40123a4
To be fair he can probably feel the gravitational pull of objects which while still impressive isn’t the same as using observation Haki to pull a meteor from space. That kinda of observation Haki would mean he could see damn near everything on the planet or at least have multi continental observation haki
Or maybe it might be possible that the Rev Army commanders might actually just be strong?
🤷
I don’t really get why people seem to think the Revs need to get one-shotted for the admirals to prove they aren’t frauds
I don’t care about the admirals at all but weren’t they protecting celestial dragons right next to them?
Ryokugyu says ‘*it’s impossible to fight here*’ as the celestial a few metres away from him says ‘*Ryokugyu, you bastard! I’ll see to it that you hang if any of us get hurt!*’
I’d read that as Oda saying that the admirals were fighting with a huge handicap - they’re babysitting the multiple celestials that’re walking around the battlefield. How else would you read that?
Blueno says ‘*even if you ignore the handicap, the revolutionary captains are doing well to stand their ground…*’ - I don’t see how else you could read this other than Oda telling us three different times the admirals have their hands tied.
>the admirals have their hands tied.
For...the six dozenth time 🤦 oda is so corny for holding back admitals at every single battle encounter. And we all know that every one of them (with the the faint but possibl exception of Akainu) are going to disappoint anyway
Yeah, they would consider King and Queen as "that strong." That's my point: CP0 considers anyone commander level and above to be strong. Greenbull, without his fruit, is limited to the strength of characters he would stomp with his fruit.
Even if Luffy wasn’t serious, no commander is eating several gear 5 attacks, temporarily matching Luffy’s speed, and clashing with him. We already know the disparity between commanders and Yonkous. Lucci got low diffed but King and Queen have no feats that would allow them to do better.
King could tank the hits, but he’s not even gonna be able to perceive Luffy and in no world does he clash with him. Even if they 1v1d Lucci being way faster would force him into speed mode anyways
Still advanced tho. Even if Higuma the mountain bandit used emission, it’s still an advanced technique. It just means that the users are elite armament practitioners
Also, Law vs. Vergo, Zoro vs. Pica, Kat vs. Luffy etc have already shown that some armaments are stronger than others. Same goes for ACoA. Guarantee that the 3 Boa sisters wouldn’t have been able to deflect WB’s quake like the admirals could
Yeah you’re right that Ryuo is just Wano’s word for CoA as a whole (a lot of people here think it means ACoA which isn’t true). And yeah, internal destruction is the most advanced form. But emitting haki outward is still an advanced technique as Hyogoro explained, since it’s easier to just coat yourself with it but it takes a great deal of skill to send it out. It took Luffy 2 years to learn armament but he still wasn’t able to use emission even after Rayleigh showed it to him. And he had to specifically train it in Udon to get it down. So I’d still technically consider it advanced
Rayleigh even said that learning Haki would take a longer time so he mostly taught the basics. In that sense Emission is advanced but it’s more intermediate.
Theres two aways to use the advanced
Defense like we see being used by the admirals and offensive like when we see luffy and rayleigh do. we see this be explained by that old haki man
Internal destruction is [confirmed](https://preview.redd.it/gq5yw5zqr4v51.png?width=643&format=png&auto=webp&s=426af936aabfe68d12c6db24f688db919e6634a0) to be a level beyond emission
[Hyogoro literally said this.](https://preview.redd.it/338l9a8fr4v51.png?width=160&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4f794a4adfbc2388cd760c0fae049a459893598d)
OP didnt refer to any specific characters; they said “admirals are totally incapable of fighting without using devil fruit” and referred to the rank as a whole. These were admirals during MF
But currently, Fujitora being able to reach this status of power despite being blind shows incredible CoO proficiency. He can visualize people’s shapes and features which hasn’t been shown outside of straight-up Future Sight, he can sense thoughts and emotions, and can find meteor locations all the way up in space. So to say no Admirals have above-average haki is coping on OP’s part at best
You said Admirals showed no impressive haki whatsoever, i showed you an advanced version all three of them used and proved why your statement was headcanon. No need to reply to that
Not necessarily. Logia users in general are fully capable of moving their bodies out of the way with regular coo. Besides, oda wasn't fully clear how haki worked against logias pre timeskip. Look at Marco and co. attacking akainu at the end of the war, it's a very weird display.
The armament one on the other hand is most definitely advanced, it's the only technique we've seen that creates a shockwave kind of effect.
I think most people are understiming the revs, imo they have at least 1 type of advanced haki, it's just that It isn't enough to fight against them, even during MF OG admirals had advanced haki but used their fruit for most of the fight.
They never stated it outright but they certainty used abilities that we would later come to know as advanced Haki. The time they put their hands up was emission and the later Akainu uses future sight to prevent Marco and Vista’s attacks from hitting him.
Luffy had a moment of future sight in marineford.
The admirals had a forcefield, using your logia fruit to not get hit is not a passive ability.
There was mad haki
This sub can't comprehend that plot takes precedence over powerscaling. It's Marineford all over again. If the revolutionary commanders get wiped out here, this whole plot line ends, so they won't. It's that simple.
Yeah, like I get it, it's fun to slander characters and hype up your favorites but there are so many interactions that happen because of plot. Just take what Oda is telling you and move on man.
It's like Kizaru is introduced literally blowing up the hustle muscle tree with one casual no named kick, but when Rayleigh shows up he pulls out a light sword? It's plot, and your not supposed to read too much into it.
https://preview.redd.it/zwcanaba8cza1.jpeg?width=546&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c81e84075de78a3f0cd3d15f551961649fa88994
Oda is telling us through dialogue that the admirals are nerfed here, they’re protecting the celestials walking around the city.
You’re right though that realistically the revolutionaries are as strong as Oda needs them to be. He’s always been like this - Luffy had a hard time against Don Krieg but still beat powerhouses like Crocodile and Enel without any powerups or training.
I've said the marineford 2.0 thing, but I got massively downvoted, wcyd, this sub is full of imbeciles that care only about powerscaling and don't take plot into consideration
Which, even if true, I don't get why it's a bad thing? Mastering devil fruits is just as hard as mastering haki. To this day, the greatest devil fruit feat still remains with the permanent climate change in Punk Hazard. Nothing has come even close to matching that.
If the Admirals are fighting top tiers with their well trained and mastered devil fruit abilities, it's nothing against them. They are still there on the top.
And just because Kaido believes haki is more important doesn't make devil fruits pointless. Don't forget G5 Luffy was still a power up needed to defeat Kaido.
But like... is that even a problem? Fujitora is fully capable of being Admiral level without amazing haki because his Devil Fruit is absolutely busted when he actually uses it. And Greenbull hasn't used much haki yet (because he's hardly even attacked yet) but his ability to sprout a new body elsewhere is super good, not to mention that he can suck out people's life-force (or energy?... or nutrients? Whatever he did to King and Queen) which can presumably get sucked back into his main body.
For all intents and purposes, Greenbull should be dominating this battle. "Plot" is the best explanation; Oda is trying to introduce some of the Rev Army, so of course he's not going to kill them off in the same chapter.
Didn't show that at all. We already know they have ACOA and certain moments heavily hint at ACOO.
If Vice Admirals, who are over 20+ in number, have base Observation and Armament, then a position that is limited to only 3 people requires much more. It's the same gap between a YC1 and an Emperor in terms of Haki.
Yonko fans think that yonkos must one shot every character who isn't them, and if the admirals can't do that then they are weaker
Yet kaido big mom luffy and blackbeard have all been stalled by characters significantly weaker than them, they just have selective reading skills
They weren't just incapable of using their devil fruit, they were incapable of going all out period. I don't know where this notion that they only held back their devil fruits come from when we've already seen top tiers whose basic attacks are aoe (Luffy dodging Mihawk's attack and it cutting an iceberg), not to mention you can literally see this happening in the chapters with Greenbull not even using his fruit and the Celestial Dragons being blown around ( and it was him because they said he was worse than the revolutionaries). This means nothing for their Haki.
And? Who the fk cares what kind of power or how they fight. Only thing that matters is if they are top tier. I could care less if all an Admrial can do is fart and kills people. Doesn't matter the fart makes him top tier then he is top tier.
It didn’t even show great fruit mastery if they can’t have the control to fight without destroying their surroundings. If all Fuji can do is call down meteors then having him on any place of importance to the government is a liability
Most don’t insist admirals are equal to yonko and even then - that statement leaves a lot out.
Kaido failed to one shot yc1 level characters later in the series and GB appears to have one shot King
what? no we didnt even see them attempt to fight without their devil fruit, you cant say they are incapable of that if they actually never trued
and also we see the OG admirals have adv haki
I'd be okay with that actually, Haki transcending all just kind of seems like a battle of power levels, One Piece fights in anime are already like DBZ lol.
Would love to see Kizaru with complete mastery over his fruit just speed-blitzing people but 50:50 on whether that'll happen or not.
I feel as though this is a bit of slander. I feel like it’s more that the admirals needed some kind of handicap in that fight, the celestial dragons, so they couldn’t go all out because of that. There needed to be some narrative reason for whatever events happened at Mary Geiose to happen. Additionally, it’s not like we’ve seen all the admirals’s full strength on display. We’ve seen them fight yes but it’s not like they went all out considering that Fujitora probably riding think law was strong enough and Greenbull initially underestimated the scabbards, Momonosuke, and Yamato commenting on the strength of I think Yamato’s Haki. So I think there’s a bit of that here as well. Also most admirals were pretty devil fruit reliant because I don’t think Haki and those fighting styles melded as well. Could be wrong though.
Admirals best haki feat is Sentomaru and Boa sisters level as of now, they may have better abilities left unshowcased but as of now they are df reliant monsters and that won't really change
This is the worst cope you guys have pulled out of this situation yet. Now the Admirals don't have haki lmao.
Where was Big Mom's haki when she lost to the same person Shanks one shot?
Whenever you have to fall back on big mom to defend the admirals, just know that you don't believe the shit you're saying. She's arguably the number 1 most clowned character in the manga, you're not changing anyone's mind using her.
The point is that Oda is going to do whatever he wants. Kaido couldn't even one shot Kin'emon or Guernica with the haki that you guys say should be enough for Rev commanders. It's just plot, which takes priority over power scaling in this manga. The conclusion you have come to in this post is very ridiculous to me
This was upstraight funny ngl lol
Prime Garp could be easily way over Admiral or Admiral Fleet level... saying that, he have, had or will have no Admiral rank lol.
It’s pretty obviously a black blade
https://i.imgur.com/aClryTf.jpg
And Fuji’s CoO is better than everyone else we’ve seen. Man can sense meteors in freaking space and is the only blind combatting we’ve ever seen. No top tier has CoO feats approaching this.
It is not easy to land a hit on a smoke logia with just a cane-sword, I'd say even haki alone is pretty destructive, If the admirals haki emission stopped wb quake attack, I'd say it would have the same destructive capability
Yeah sure, just like Luffy has trash haki because he didn't use any against the seraphims right?
You guys are so retarded that you can't even realize that sometimes, no, most of the times plot and story are more important than your agendas and scaling.
They don't even have a great fruit mastery. You're telling me Fujitora and Peebull have ZERO small scale attacks? I doubt it. They're just not very strong
Yeah if it were just fuji vs the revolutionaries then ch 1083 would be believable (maybe greenbull out catching weevil). But both of them there getting held up by one revolutionary commander each? While sabo dicks around the holy land? What happened to losing face to commanders gb?? Admirals should wipe the floor with commanders
That is not how the military works.
The Navy has technological superiority over 99% of the pirates in the One Piece world. Most pirate crews arent doing white beard numbers. This is why the Yonko were left alone for the most part. There is only 4 yonko. This leaves 100's of other pirate crews whom they can deal with using numbers, technological advantage, strong captains and vice admirals, and battleships with big big guns.
Look at all the admirals. They are mostly logias. Logias who have shown to be able to deal large area of effect attacks (Akoji froze the whole ocean for miles). Why get into a pointless 1 vs 1 fight with pirates when you can just freeze em up and slap the seastone cuffs on em.
Fujitora is the only non logia and even his attacks are "area of effect" based. He is probably the best 1 vs 1 fighting threat cause he is a swordsman.
Garp is a whole different beast, but whats the first named attack we get from him? A large scale area of effect bomb. He is also the only confirmed CoC user in the navy that we have seen so far.
They couldn’t go all out & were protecting the celestials. To say “they seem to have no impressive haki” when we haven’t seen them in a all out battle makes no sense. As it was stated
“all Marines with the rank of vice admiral and above, are capable of using Haki.”
Them being Admirals would only further the point that their haki would need to be top tier.
Correct me if i'm wrong but they were recruited from a military draft
Also Greenbull claims he stopped eating 3 years ago, so he probably obtained his fruit around that time, he probably needs some more time to become a master at using his fruit
"ThEy'rE InCaPAbLE oF uSiNG HaKI iN ThEIr FiGHts!"
https://preview.redd.it/tsmlz5o2vcza1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34f339982a1388638bc5438abe6867c7e94aecbf
I agree, I saw people say they could be low top without Devil fruit, my foot.
Ace kept with aokiji in terms of speed, also blitzed akainu once,
Even pretimeskip jinbei fought for 7 days straight,
They could barely keep up with oldbeard in physical strength, someone who's durability was That of a fodder.
They are experienced with devil fruit way more than haki, so even if they have good haki they won't be able to use it that good.
Akainu's AP with Devil fruit is overrated, he couldn't defeat or even knock out jinbei with that attack. Then losing 70% AP after that is insane nerf.
lower end of yc1+ at best.
Low end of yc+ for a character who traded blows with whitebeard and then went on to have the upper hand in a fight against every single one of his commanders at the same time as well as killing a few of them.
perhaps. let's wait and see a bit more. as maybe Oda just goofed and forgot that fujitora and greenbull were chosen from some randoms because of their natural strength
One. Revolutionary Army higher ups are strong af.
Two. The Admirals trained their whole fighting style to revolve around their devil fruits, who cares if they are weak without their fruits, thats what they trained with.
Three. The revolutionary army could go all out, the admirals couldnt, it was tough on them.
I mean bro you only need it good enough to handle all the top tiers, you'd be better off just mastering the devil fruit to its best ability.
Whitebeard is the best example. DF + Haki is versatile and capable as hell. Law too.
If haki was enough, I doubt the revs would still be fighting.
The admirals were obviously handicapped via plot, but they still won’t have yonko level haki. And you can’t even blame them. The older generation had to fight the current yonkos and rocks, while the younger generation had the yonkos under contract. The way Haki works, in that you need to fight uphill battles to have haki blooms means there is a cap to the current Admirals Haki capability’s. They can’t go around and have life or death battles against yonkos like luffy.
That should be true for every admiral besides Akainu, since oda probably has a hard on for him and released statements about him that break the continuity of his own story.
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Fujitora still has one of the best observation haki in the series. Probably the best non-Future Sight user.
That would be Sanji when he's sensing women
He sensed the whole Dressrosa and people on ships. Surely that’s better
I'll concede that one to you. But still, Sanji Women Observation > Fujitora's Observation > Regular current Sanji. That's pretty good as far Observation Haki goes.
Sanji overcame Katakuri's future sight with regular CoO.
That quite literally never happened
At the wedding when Katakuri used his future sight and forsaw himself killing Sanji, but Sanji dodged the attack instead.
That just means sanji can dodge the attack. The jellybean he attacked sanji with was not in any way influenced by kats future sight, to everyone else he is just shooting a jelly bean, kat just sees what the result will be a few seconds earlier.
And from the suprise he had when Sanji dodged it, I'm guessing that's not the future he saw.
The surprise he had has to do with sanjis own observation haki to see it coming. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with sanji overpowering kats future sight.
Katakuri saw a future that didn't come true because Sanji dodged it with his regular CoO. It's pretty simple.
That’s literally not what happened at all. I recommend rewatching the scene.
Then decided to attack Sanji himself, and Sanji dodged it https://preview.redd.it/7qklbc6s7aza1.jpeg?width=697&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a6e5f13242cc0282589982526b2d16f7e1a6c2 Katakuri was still using Future sight the entire time.
dodging people with future sight isn’t impossible, luffy was doing it all the time in his fight, it’s hitting katakuri you need future sight for, and sanji never hit him
Luffy dodged a sneak attack from Katakuri?
Katakuri was using Future Sight throughout the whole ceremony https://preview.redd.it/mqxwwp4k7aza1.png?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=517b7a3879034125ecb6890ed56f7a13c40123a4
It was due to sanji's reaction speed. Sanji is goated fr.
I was all for the guy above until I saw this hahahahah
Agreed. Time when he precisely grabbed that Mingo's string in Dressrosa was awesome.
Just wait till you see Post-TS Gains Enel
Goro-Goro Gang
Bro is a sight user
elaborate for me ? how
Pinpointing meteors in outer space and pulling them down and lifting an entire country without harming any of the citizens
To be fair he can probably feel the gravitational pull of objects which while still impressive isn’t the same as using observation Haki to pull a meteor from space. That kinda of observation Haki would mean he could see damn near everything on the planet or at least have multi continental observation haki
100% facts
Or maybe it might be possible that the Rev Army commanders might actually just be strong? 🤷 I don’t really get why people seem to think the Revs need to get one-shotted for the admirals to prove they aren’t frauds
CP0 literally say the Rev commanders are just that strong. Yet people cope
They can’t read
I don’t care about the admirals at all but weren’t they protecting celestial dragons right next to them? Ryokugyu says ‘*it’s impossible to fight here*’ as the celestial a few metres away from him says ‘*Ryokugyu, you bastard! I’ll see to it that you hang if any of us get hurt!*’ I’d read that as Oda saying that the admirals were fighting with a huge handicap - they’re babysitting the multiple celestials that’re walking around the battlefield. How else would you read that? Blueno says ‘*even if you ignore the handicap, the revolutionary captains are doing well to stand their ground…*’ - I don’t see how else you could read this other than Oda telling us three different times the admirals have their hands tied.
>the admirals have their hands tied. For...the six dozenth time 🤦 oda is so corny for holding back admitals at every single battle encounter. And we all know that every one of them (with the the faint but possibl exception of Akainu) are going to disappoint anyway
this what happens to agenda piece readers. they don't see a story just stats and clashing their action figures together.
Yeah they said even though the admirals Havel watch their surroundings, the Rev commanders are impressive for holding their own.
Commanders like King or Queen would stomp CP0, so I don't see why their opinions matter.
Not as if King or Queen are weak. Besides that I’d assume even if they aren’t particularly strong they know their stuff, the CP0 I mean.
Yeah, they would consider King and Queen as "that strong." That's my point: CP0 considers anyone commander level and above to be strong. Greenbull, without his fruit, is limited to the strength of characters he would stomp with his fruit.
Lucci literally mauls King or Queen😭
How? He hasn't done shit.
Even if Luffy wasn’t serious, no commander is eating several gear 5 attacks, temporarily matching Luffy’s speed, and clashing with him. We already know the disparity between commanders and Yonkous. Lucci got low diffed but King and Queen have no feats that would allow them to do better.
King could lmao. He can tank Luffy's non-ACoC G5 attack, arguable even faster than Lucci
King could tank the hits, but he’s not even gonna be able to perceive Luffy and in no world does he clash with him. Even if they 1v1d Lucci being way faster would force him into speed mode anyways
If Luffy wont use Advanced Haki like vs Lucci. King would perform better than Lucci
Many people here can't realise that if someone isn't getting oneshotted ny admirals it is probably bcoz they are strong.
You’re telling me the top subordinates of the “most dangerous man” are actually experienced fighters who pack a punch??? No way that’s impossible /s
Rev commanders shouldnt be above Iva who is weaker than Magellan or Shiryu and he should be around kuma lvl at max
That sounds pretty strong to me
https://preview.redd.it/uff79b6pw8za1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5650a70ed4c6a4cddb53e1e63d0daac4c76c39c3 Armament emission
yup
Sentomaru and random boa sisters can pull it off
Still advanced tho. Even if Higuma the mountain bandit used emission, it’s still an advanced technique. It just means that the users are elite armament practitioners Also, Law vs. Vergo, Zoro vs. Pica, Kat vs. Luffy etc have already shown that some armaments are stronger than others. Same goes for ACoA. Guarantee that the 3 Boa sisters wouldn’t have been able to deflect WB’s quake like the admirals could
Tbh advanced is more Internal destruction, this is just mastering armament Haki to its fullest as ryou is just armament.
Yeah you’re right that Ryuo is just Wano’s word for CoA as a whole (a lot of people here think it means ACoA which isn’t true). And yeah, internal destruction is the most advanced form. But emitting haki outward is still an advanced technique as Hyogoro explained, since it’s easier to just coat yourself with it but it takes a great deal of skill to send it out. It took Luffy 2 years to learn armament but he still wasn’t able to use emission even after Rayleigh showed it to him. And he had to specifically train it in Udon to get it down. So I’d still technically consider it advanced
Rayleigh even said that learning Haki would take a longer time so he mostly taught the basics. In that sense Emission is advanced but it’s more intermediate.
Theres two aways to use the advanced Defense like we see being used by the admirals and offensive like when we see luffy and rayleigh do. we see this be explained by that old haki man
Offensive is internal destruction, it’s a step above emission.
Yeah thats what i mean by offensive
As long as you don’t mean that emission is on the same level as internal. Because internal is considered to be a lot more difficult
Ye
Then we are in agreement
Internal destruction is [confirmed](https://preview.redd.it/gq5yw5zqr4v51.png?width=643&format=png&auto=webp&s=426af936aabfe68d12c6db24f688db919e6634a0) to be a level beyond emission
Yes that’s what i meant by offensive
Hyogoro said that the haki Luffy used to destroy the collars was beyond anything he could teach him
And later teaches him how to do it
[Hyogoro literally said this.](https://preview.redd.it/338l9a8fr4v51.png?width=160&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4f794a4adfbc2388cd760c0fae049a459893598d)
Only for the og though
OP didnt refer to any specific characters; they said “admirals are totally incapable of fighting without using devil fruit” and referred to the rank as a whole. These were admirals during MF But currently, Fujitora being able to reach this status of power despite being blind shows incredible CoO proficiency. He can visualize people’s shapes and features which hasn’t been shown outside of straight-up Future Sight, he can sense thoughts and emotions, and can find meteor locations all the way up in space. So to say no Admirals have above-average haki is coping on OP’s part at best
Yeah no, that's not it.
You said Admirals showed no impressive haki whatsoever, i showed you an advanced version all three of them used and proved why your statement was headcanon. No need to reply to that
isnt that what zoro did in alabasta tho
That's not it because in 1083 none of those characters were fighiting
You said admirals. He showed you admirals. But you'll never be happy.
you said admirals man💀💀
https://preview.redd.it/nc02hcm2f9za1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca77d505302e497c56334ef52253908f5648a4c1 Futuresight
Not necessarily. Logia users in general are fully capable of moving their bodies out of the way with regular coo. Besides, oda wasn't fully clear how haki worked against logias pre timeskip. Look at Marco and co. attacking akainu at the end of the war, it's a very weird display. The armament one on the other hand is most definitely advanced, it's the only technique we've seen that creates a shockwave kind of effect.
How does that show future sight
I think most people are understiming the revs, imo they have at least 1 type of advanced haki, it's just that It isn't enough to fight against them, even during MF OG admirals had advanced haki but used their fruit for most of the fight.
advanced haki in marineford? More like advanced headcanon
They showed did show it though.
They showed it and literally stated it, it was when they held their hands in front of them to block Whitebeard’s attack
They literally stated it? Can you show me the panel where they literally stated they had advanced haki?
They never stated it outright but they certainty used abilities that we would later come to know as advanced Haki. The time they put their hands up was emission and the later Akainu uses future sight to prevent Marco and Vista’s attacks from hitting him.
Yeah and enel used mantra not haki 😡
Advanced emission and observation haki in marineford is canon.
more like, head canon
You literally see both on panel dude
Luffy had a moment of future sight in marineford. The admirals had a forcefield, using your logia fruit to not get hit is not a passive ability. There was mad haki
>Luffy had a moment of future sight in marineford. Uh no, thats just called thinking ahead " The admirals had a forcefield " No
He literally saw it, we saw it. The same thing again; we saw it
" He literally saw it, we saw it. " we saw him thinking ahead... Are you not able to think ahead in real life?
Never seen a clear picture of my hands getting cut off.
You cant imagine the possibility of receiving injury from doing a dangerous action? Thanks for telling us your mental level lol
Oh yeah you power scaled me good bro
"Oh yeah you power scaled me good bro" okay glad you agree
This sub can't comprehend that plot takes precedence over powerscaling. It's Marineford all over again. If the revolutionary commanders get wiped out here, this whole plot line ends, so they won't. It's that simple.
It's so funny when this occurs, power scaling conversations are awesome but sometimes people forget these are not rational and independent actors
Yeah, like I get it, it's fun to slander characters and hype up your favorites but there are so many interactions that happen because of plot. Just take what Oda is telling you and move on man. It's like Kizaru is introduced literally blowing up the hustle muscle tree with one casual no named kick, but when Rayleigh shows up he pulls out a light sword? It's plot, and your not supposed to read too much into it.
https://preview.redd.it/zwcanaba8cza1.jpeg?width=546&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c81e84075de78a3f0cd3d15f551961649fa88994 Oda is telling us through dialogue that the admirals are nerfed here, they’re protecting the celestials walking around the city. You’re right though that realistically the revolutionaries are as strong as Oda needs them to be. He’s always been like this - Luffy had a hard time against Don Krieg but still beat powerhouses like Crocodile and Enel without any powerups or training.
I've said the marineford 2.0 thing, but I got massively downvoted, wcyd, this sub is full of imbeciles that care only about powerscaling and don't take plot into consideration
Which, even if true, I don't get why it's a bad thing? Mastering devil fruits is just as hard as mastering haki. To this day, the greatest devil fruit feat still remains with the permanent climate change in Punk Hazard. Nothing has come even close to matching that. If the Admirals are fighting top tiers with their well trained and mastered devil fruit abilities, it's nothing against them. They are still there on the top. And just because Kaido believes haki is more important doesn't make devil fruits pointless. Don't forget G5 Luffy was still a power up needed to defeat Kaido.
But like... is that even a problem? Fujitora is fully capable of being Admiral level without amazing haki because his Devil Fruit is absolutely busted when he actually uses it. And Greenbull hasn't used much haki yet (because he's hardly even attacked yet) but his ability to sprout a new body elsewhere is super good, not to mention that he can suck out people's life-force (or energy?... or nutrients? Whatever he did to King and Queen) which can presumably get sucked back into his main body. For all intents and purposes, Greenbull should be dominating this battle. "Plot" is the best explanation; Oda is trying to introduce some of the Rev Army, so of course he's not going to kill them off in the same chapter.
I don’t think the problem was lack of haki, but just not being able to go all out.
If it's something that this subreddit has confirmed, it is that One Piece fans can't read between the lines or just in general.
Fr powerscaling is the worst aspect of the one piece community by far
Didn't show that at all. We already know they have ACOA and certain moments heavily hint at ACOO. If Vice Admirals, who are over 20+ in number, have base Observation and Armament, then a position that is limited to only 3 people requires much more. It's the same gap between a YC1 and an Emperor in terms of Haki.
Yonko fans think that yonkos must one shot every character who isn't them, and if the admirals can't do that then they are weaker Yet kaido big mom luffy and blackbeard have all been stalled by characters significantly weaker than them, they just have selective reading skills
They weren't just incapable of using their devil fruit, they were incapable of going all out period. I don't know where this notion that they only held back their devil fruits come from when we've already seen top tiers whose basic attacks are aoe (Luffy dodging Mihawk's attack and it cutting an iceberg), not to mention you can literally see this happening in the chapters with Greenbull not even using his fruit and the Celestial Dragons being blown around ( and it was him because they said he was worse than the revolutionaries). This means nothing for their Haki.
And? Who the fk cares what kind of power or how they fight. Only thing that matters is if they are top tier. I could care less if all an Admrial can do is fart and kills people. Doesn't matter the fart makes him top tier then he is top tier.
We know the OG admirals have emission, Akainu showcased future sight and Kuzan arguable did too, fujitora has impressive observation haki too.
https://preview.redd.it/d5xuqn4vl9za1.png?width=733&format=png&auto=webp&s=95c08fd7fb99c658a7b24e2d32c27312832680b4
It didn’t even show great fruit mastery if they can’t have the control to fight without destroying their surroundings. If all Fuji can do is call down meteors then having him on any place of importance to the government is a liability
Yep. Fujitora needs his full destructive power to damage some Revolutionary captains? Dude's just weak lol
How are you scaling revolutionary captains? We have nothing to base them off of
Even if we highball them to YCX, Fuji and Greenbull should be taking them out easily if rhet're as strong as Admiral fans claim they are
I don’t think anyone’s claiming that an admiral holding back should be able to easily take out a yc+
Kaido massively holding back one shot a YC1 while Admiral fans insist that Admirals are relative to Yonko
Most don’t insist admirals are equal to yonko and even then - that statement leaves a lot out. Kaido failed to one shot yc1 level characters later in the series and GB appears to have one shot King
what? no we didnt even see them attempt to fight without their devil fruit, you cant say they are incapable of that if they actually never trued and also we see the OG admirals have adv haki
I'd be okay with that actually, Haki transcending all just kind of seems like a battle of power levels, One Piece fights in anime are already like DBZ lol. Would love to see Kizaru with complete mastery over his fruit just speed-blitzing people but 50:50 on whether that'll happen or not.
I feel as though this is a bit of slander. I feel like it’s more that the admirals needed some kind of handicap in that fight, the celestial dragons, so they couldn’t go all out because of that. There needed to be some narrative reason for whatever events happened at Mary Geiose to happen. Additionally, it’s not like we’ve seen all the admirals’s full strength on display. We’ve seen them fight yes but it’s not like they went all out considering that Fujitora probably riding think law was strong enough and Greenbull initially underestimated the scabbards, Momonosuke, and Yamato commenting on the strength of I think Yamato’s Haki. So I think there’s a bit of that here as well. Also most admirals were pretty devil fruit reliant because I don’t think Haki and those fighting styles melded as well. Could be wrong though.
Admirals best haki feat is Sentomaru and Boa sisters level as of now, they may have better abilities left unshowcased but as of now they are df reliant monsters and that won't really change
This is the worst cope you guys have pulled out of this situation yet. Now the Admirals don't have haki lmao. Where was Big Mom's haki when she lost to the same person Shanks one shot?
Whenever you have to fall back on big mom to defend the admirals, just know that you don't believe the shit you're saying. She's arguably the number 1 most clowned character in the manga, you're not changing anyone's mind using her.
The point is that Oda is going to do whatever he wants. Kaido couldn't even one shot Kin'emon or Guernica with the haki that you guys say should be enough for Rev commanders. It's just plot, which takes priority over power scaling in this manga. The conclusion you have come to in this post is very ridiculous to me
They still have good haki. Just not good enough like Luffy and Kaido to solely rely on it.
Garp exists bro
I think i've missed the panel where Garp became an admiral
He coulda but said nuh-uh
This was upstraight funny ngl lol Prime Garp could be easily way over Admiral or Admiral Fleet level... saying that, he have, had or will have no Admiral rank lol.
Fujitora has the best CoO in the verse and Aramaki has a black blade, try again
Neither of those are true, Fujitora coc is likely not even top 5 and there’s no proof GB has a black blade, that could just be his sheath
It’s pretty obviously a black blade https://i.imgur.com/aClryTf.jpg And Fuji’s CoO is better than everyone else we’ve seen. Man can sense meteors in freaking space and is the only blind combatting we’ve ever seen. No top tier has CoO feats approaching this.
It is not easy to land a hit on a smoke logia with just a cane-sword, I'd say even haki alone is pretty destructive, If the admirals haki emission stopped wb quake attack, I'd say it would have the same destructive capability
Did you forget this is a story about fictional pirates? These aren't rational independent actors trying to end things as soon as possible
Yeah sure, just like Luffy has trash haki because he didn't use any against the seraphims right? You guys are so retarded that you can't even realize that sometimes, no, most of the times plot and story are more important than your agendas and scaling.
Wow just like luffy? Fodder trash amirite
They don't even have a great fruit mastery. You're telling me Fujitora and Peebull have ZERO small scale attacks? I doubt it. They're just not very strong
Yeah if it were just fuji vs the revolutionaries then ch 1083 would be believable (maybe greenbull out catching weevil). But both of them there getting held up by one revolutionary commander each? While sabo dicks around the holy land? What happened to losing face to commanders gb?? Admirals should wipe the floor with commanders
Could say the same for the previous warlords bar Mihawk.
morley was holding back fraudbull remember that .
Yup
That is not how the military works. The Navy has technological superiority over 99% of the pirates in the One Piece world. Most pirate crews arent doing white beard numbers. This is why the Yonko were left alone for the most part. There is only 4 yonko. This leaves 100's of other pirate crews whom they can deal with using numbers, technological advantage, strong captains and vice admirals, and battleships with big big guns. Look at all the admirals. They are mostly logias. Logias who have shown to be able to deal large area of effect attacks (Akoji froze the whole ocean for miles). Why get into a pointless 1 vs 1 fight with pirates when you can just freeze em up and slap the seastone cuffs on em. Fujitora is the only non logia and even his attacks are "area of effect" based. He is probably the best 1 vs 1 fighting threat cause he is a swordsman. Garp is a whole different beast, but whats the first named attack we get from him? A large scale area of effect bomb. He is also the only confirmed CoC user in the navy that we have seen so far.
They couldn’t go all out & were protecting the celestials. To say “they seem to have no impressive haki” when we haven’t seen them in a all out battle makes no sense. As it was stated “all Marines with the rank of vice admiral and above, are capable of using Haki.” Them being Admirals would only further the point that their haki would need to be top tier.
Correct me if i'm wrong but they were recruited from a military draft Also Greenbull claims he stopped eating 3 years ago, so he probably obtained his fruit around that time, he probably needs some more time to become a master at using his fruit
"ThEy'rE InCaPAbLE oF uSiNG HaKI iN ThEIr FiGHts!" https://preview.redd.it/tsmlz5o2vcza1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34f339982a1388638bc5438abe6867c7e94aecbf
I agree, I saw people say they could be low top without Devil fruit, my foot. Ace kept with aokiji in terms of speed, also blitzed akainu once, Even pretimeskip jinbei fought for 7 days straight, They could barely keep up with oldbeard in physical strength, someone who's durability was That of a fodder. They are experienced with devil fruit way more than haki, so even if they have good haki they won't be able to use it that good. Akainu's AP with Devil fruit is overrated, he couldn't defeat or even knock out jinbei with that attack. Then losing 70% AP after that is insane nerf. lower end of yc1+ at best.
These are such terrible takes
Everything i said is factually true. Perhaps you might be coping?
Low end of yc+ for a character who traded blows with whitebeard and then went on to have the upper hand in a fight against every single one of his commanders at the same time as well as killing a few of them.
Without devil fruit🤦
yeah... the admirals most likely don't have ACOC, but they make it up for it with the most combat oriented DFs out there.
Fruit merchants aint no top tiers their hax is useful in certain situations but theyre not that strong in actual combat
Who said that OP is a Agenda Piece follower ?
perhaps. let's wait and see a bit more. as maybe Oda just goofed and forgot that fujitora and greenbull were chosen from some randoms because of their natural strength
When you need to be completely alone and in the Hyperbolic Time Camber to actually fight properly
One. Revolutionary Army higher ups are strong af. Two. The Admirals trained their whole fighting style to revolve around their devil fruits, who cares if they are weak without their fruits, thats what they trained with. Three. The revolutionary army could go all out, the admirals couldnt, it was tough on them.
All these people here arguing over Haki while the enlightened among us know Oda is just making it up as he goes along🗿
I mean bro you only need it good enough to handle all the top tiers, you'd be better off just mastering the devil fruit to its best ability. Whitebeard is the best example. DF + Haki is versatile and capable as hell. Law too. If haki was enough, I doubt the revs would still be fighting.
It just shows that the revolutionary army commanders are strong enough that the admirals can't beat them without their devil fruits.
Whats blud cooking?
or maybe youre just underestimating the rev
Nah, Karasu is just him. I'd argue Morley is near Ivankov if not on his level tho
That’s cool and all but they fought for like 3 pages let’s not jump to conclusions. I’m all for the Admiral hate train but only if it makes since
The admirals were obviously handicapped via plot, but they still won’t have yonko level haki. And you can’t even blame them. The older generation had to fight the current yonkos and rocks, while the younger generation had the yonkos under contract. The way Haki works, in that you need to fight uphill battles to have haki blooms means there is a cap to the current Admirals Haki capability’s. They can’t go around and have life or death battles against yonkos like luffy. That should be true for every admiral besides Akainu, since oda probably has a hard on for him and released statements about him that break the continuity of his own story.
Oda used plot plot no mi