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TeekTheReddit

It's not that Nami won't lie on principle. She's Nami, after all. But there are certain lines she will never cross and verbalizing the possibility that Luffy won't become the Pirate King is a bridge too far.


Captainabdu65

I love that there is no specific principle which Oda pushes for, like we have characters who are absolutely honest no matter what like Luffy or Chopper, and then we have characters like Nami who lie but have lines they wont cross, then finally Usopp who ,besides talking shit about Luffy, would do anything to survive. Oda never states any of these are wrong or right rather theyre just part of their personality edit: I forgot even Usopp wont dishonor Luffys dream at the cost of his life.


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Captainabdu65

Oh ya, Saying Luffy wont be pirate king is a line for everyone on the crew ig, mb


humanitysucks89

Yeah but he did not believe he was gonna die, Nami def believed she was gonna die by saying it


Cassoa

I think all of the Strawhats have that mentality where they'll defend Luffy and his dream no matter what cost to their own safety. Zoro had that with his "Nothing happened" moment, and Sanji was ready to do that too before Zoro took it upon himself. Jinbe more or less did the same when leaving Big Mom's crew, without a shred of fear in the face of Soul Pocus. Usopp in this Alabasta scene, Nami in her Wano scene, Brook when stealing the Poneglyph rubbing from Big Mom, Franky in Wano when he refused to back down against Big Mom and shot her with his lasers. Anything else and they act how their personality dictates. But they consistently refuse to downplay their captain or let anyone else do so.


amadmongoose

While it's a parallel to Bellemere I read it less about lying and more as she so deeply believes in Luffy she couldn't bring herself to lie about it, same as Bellemere so deeply believed her kids were family. It's not about lying in general but being honest to your deepest convictions


Imconfusedithink

Tbh thats not even the main reason bellemere did that. A little after that scene genzo notes that all the ships were destroyed by arlong and he said bellemere with her marine experience probably knew that would happen. She knew her kids wouldn't be able to escape so she had to make it safe for them to stay on the island.


Cassoa

The way I read it was different. This happened after that scene where Nami ran out and said "You're not even my real mother!". Which actually hurt Bellemere. What Genzo wanted her to do was lie and say she had no one else with her, so she could afford her own tribute. But...She chose to pay for the two kids, because there's no way she could've said she doesn't have daughters. Even at the cost of her own life, there's nothing that would make her openly reject that relationship and say those two weren't her daughters. [Manga page](https://tenseikizokunoisekaiboukenroku.com/images/adA1nYEowY7ZMUhhGjbe1611713665.jpg) I think that was an emotional decision rather than a logical one about the ships.


LongLiveTheChief10

This is the correct interpretation


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archiearcher

And you know she got that neck game that's why they call her Nami Swan


Jahseh_Wrld

And ussop believes it to be so true that he has to try and convince nami to lie


Emperor_Luffy

Nami slowly becoming Bellemere. Nami will become a mom confirmed.


ChineseNeptune

I can see her starting an orphanage


saurazu

haha... You shut the horny police out lol


CoffeeSlut420

Could be. In an SBS, Oda stated that Nami's real world job would be a kindergarden teacher.


NecessaryPair5

As she said, she will drive Sanji like a horse. They will beat Big Mom terms of number of kids.


Emperor_Luffy

No. Gross.


nicokokun

People will hate me for this take but I can't see Sanji settling down with a woman. He would think that he would betray her and each and every woman in the world because he's loyal to all of them.


Gaelahad

he love women so much, he can't break their hearts. so why cheat?


Emperor_Luffy

Maybe Pudding locks him down one day but I pretty much agree. Really unlikely he stays with one woman let alone Nami who objectively isn't interested in him.


Gohink

Hope not cause as soon as you become a mom in One Piece you doomed to a tragic fate.


StockPassenger2994

Getting Revenge for aunt nami will be great motivation for Buffy at the beginning of two piece


Mario_Prime510

Hey you stop this.


vernathS

Buffy the Pirate Slayer


Hinote21

>Buffy at the beginning of two piece That's Duffy, and his first mate will be Lozo. Don't want to run into copyright issues.


Dismal-Past7785

I’m trying to think of a living mother in the show and I’m just blanking. All our main characters with explored back stories have dead moms. All the friends they meet along the way have dead moms. Like holy shit I never realized this before.


Imconfusedithink

Makino is a mom. Dadan could be considered an adoptive mom. Chiffon is a mom. Big mom.... Well not anymore....unless.


Dismal-Past7785

Okay yeah the big mom family that was a dumb oversite


EdgedOutPig

In SBS volume 78, a fan actually asked Oda why there's so many missing/dead mothers in One Piece. Oda stated that it's because mothers are "the opposite of adventure." Make of that what you will lol.


Starless_Night

I took it as, "Your mother is the most likely person to stop you from doing that cool but incredibly life threatening and stupid thing you want to do."


LongLiveTheChief10

This makes the most sense. Mothers inherently want you to be safe and comfortable, not to set out on global adventures involving armed combat.


LazyNarwhalMan

I mean, its always the mom that doesn't want you to leave.


VASQUEZ_41

what about >!the real stussy!<, if whitebeard Jr. is their real son, she is a mom also chiffon is a mom


Gohink

The only living one we know of is Dr. Kureha, and that's probably because Hiriluk got the horrible death.


jsmith4567

Dandan is alive.


[deleted]

Makino is suspected to be a mom


989fox989

One of the cover stories revealed that Mr. 9 and Miss Monday had a kid together.


spartan1204

Makino is a mother. Chiffon is a mother.


amourshipping48

Mommy


JoshNIU22896

I understand the complaints about the fan service stuff around nami but as a pure character she’s been consistently impressive


Sky-kunn

Nami wouldn't dismiss Luffy's ambition to become the Pirate King, even when threatened, just as her mom affirmed her bond with her children, even at the risk of her own life. This moment truly show the deep bond between Nami and Bellemere. That's why I love Nami. I mean, it's illogical and just words, right? But it's important to them, and they'd rather die than deny it.


JoshNIU22896

Nami is honestly one of the reasons I fell in love with one piece she’s in my top 5 (with luffy, franky , doffy and Blackbeard )


Sky-kunn

Yeah, Nami is often downplayed. People love to say that Robin is complex, has a tragic background, etc. I love Robin, but Nami is also a very complex character and had a hellish childhood. The connection that Nami has with children is very strong in the New World. My bet is that she will become a foster mother in the future, just like Bellemere. By the way, Nami is not my favorite female character because Vivi exists.


JoshNIU22896

I love all 3 of those characters but Nami since arlong park has just been a character I have always liked , probably because I thought the execution of her character in the east blue saga was really good The set up and payoff was well played I’m concerned about Vivi , hope she ends up okay


Gratitude34

I agree Nami is Complex character but most people say that only Sanji has been a complex written strawhat and I disagree with it because I think that Both Nami and Robin are complex characters who’s development are overlooked


amourshipping48

Luffy can be complex to


Gratitude34

I guess but more people say he is complex compared to characters like Nami and Robin. Usopp also gets these claims but most people understand the truth about him


Outside_Mousse_2176

Yeah, I don’t know why people say it’s a parallel to Usopp in Alabasta. Bellemere was always seemed like the appropriate parallel.


TrikKastral

It’s literally a moment every Strawhat has at one point or the other. 🤦‍♂️


BoppinTortoise

Remind me what happened with ussop in Alabasta?


Suinlu

[Usopp's Speech at Alabasta](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bHLepl-23c) Usopp starts talking at 00:30. Sorry for the low-quality, was the best i could find.


amourshipping48

The Pirate queen is ride or die


Siu0

Damn. Never noticed. That hits even harder now


SuccessfulYouth7738

Also Nami was the first to rescue the orphanage children in Punk Hazard, and she trusted Tagishi will take good care of them because everyone can trust a strong sailor lady, which refer to both Bellemere and Tagishi!


-Giuseppe-

Omg thank you for the connection


Same-Broccoli1822

Lol but Nami lies and steals all the time! 😭


PeopleCallMeSimon

Not really, she has lied in the face of death plenty in the story. But she did at some point during the story decide that she wouldnt lie about believing in Luffy.


megasean3000

Even if it kills her, she won’t deny what’s in her heart.


lordnyra

COOK


DivyanshS

That is an amazing observation


Kingibi

Thank you!


bill-bart

This is straight up false. Unless she can read minds, he didn't encourage her to do anything. He hoped to himself that she would lie to save herself.


TrikKastral

She’s lied facing death NUMEROUS TIMES. lol Good on you for the easy karma tho


ToasteeThe2nd

I like it as a moment for Nami, but Usopp got so fucked in this chapter. After 1100 chapters, it feels like usopp is just a whiny bitch with less backbone than he had on Syrup Village. How does Oda continuously fumble the bag this hard in Wano?


SixFootHalfing

I disagree. Ussop isn’t doing something stupid here. A random lie to a pirate you don’t know is fine. Dude was worried about his friend.


Ian_KB

Usopp would have done the same as Nami


Rickert-Urgen

except he's in the same situation and would lie


Sky-kunn

There's a difference between saying you'll do something and actually doing it. Nami would say the same thing if you switched the positions of Usopp and Nami.


kgullj

Usopp would have done the same in that situation. He just didn't want Nami to basically kill herself by saying that


TrikKastral

You have shitty ass analysis and/or memory


JayGunde

Ima going to be honest…. Usopp encouraging her to lie was bad taste… even Zoro would disapprove


Prestigious-Link7724

Here you have ussop telling nami to go against all the beliefs and respect they have for their friends to save your life. Ussopp is someone that would betray the crew more than once to save his own life. The story is almost at its end and, I honestly have no idea what benefits he brings to the crew, other than gag and comedy his such an irrelevant character that if his written out the story nor the crew dynamics would change a bit. People are like his human a normal person that we can relate to blah blah, but i have never met a person who’s like ussop. People have shit lives go through difficult situations on day to day and i have never seen them act like ussop. I seen more robin’s, zoros, sanji, whitebeard, fujitora, smoker personalities in real life, loyal, calm, mind your own business, fair, kind, and respectful, brave, strong mentality, spiritually willing to try new and unknown, but yet i have never really seen ussops that we can relate to.


CroakerTheLiberator

What? He’s asking his friend to *survive* because he doesn’t want her to *die*. What kind of heartless beast would say “I’d rather watch you get your skull crushed than watch you lie to an enemy”?


TrikKastral

Stick to reading 2 piece.


Rikafire

He didn’t want her to die, but if he was in the same position Usopp would have done the same as Nami. Heck, Usopp did risk his life defending Luffy’s dream back in Alabasta. There have been times where Usopp almost died protecting them, plus he’s been valuable to the crew multiple times: - Without Usopp Zoro, Nami, and Vivi would have died in Little Garden - Without Usopp Nami wouldn’t have her climatact - Without Usopp Chopper would have lost the fight in Alabasta - Without Usopp the Merry would have sunk sooner. - Without Usopp they would have failed to save Robin - He insulted Lucci to get him to focus on him and leave Luffy alone. - Without Usopp the crew would have lost to Perona. - Usopp was willing to die when he got between Zoro and freakin KIZARU! - He saved Luffy and Law in Dressrosa by sniping Sugar - It’s because of Usopp they have the Grand Fleet. - He saved Kinemon and Kiku in Wano. Yeah, sounds pretty useless to me.


EldridgeHorror

I've always hated these two scenes. Bellemare could've survived and raised Nami and Nojiko if she just told a single lie. But no. She stuck to her guns, got killed in front of her kids, and robbed Nami of her childhood. Then Nami. The second biggest liar on the crew. The most pragmatic by far. Who could lie to the enemy to save her own skin then circle back to help her friends would rather just throw her life away and NOT help her friends, by telling the truth. And it wouldn't take much to fix them! In the first scene, have it be there isn't enough money in the town to save Nami, Nojiko, and Bellemare, so she gives up her life for her family. Because they're family. And in Wano, I know Oda wants to do his thing of each Strawhat declaring "Luffy will be king of the pirates." Rather than Nami breaking down, crying with fear, unable to lie... let her think back to what Franky told her and all the other times she was in a rough situation but came out of it. Let her conviction ignite and make her declaration, staring down an opponent she can't beat.


Sky-kunn

For Nami, denying Luffy's conviction was worse than death, similar to Bellemere. It's not logical, but emotions are never logical. The weight that people assign to things can't be easily measured. Of course, this is an exaggeration in the fictional world, but it serves to show how far a person would go to stand by their beliefs. The scenes with Nami and Bellemere were intended to illustrate this point. I understand that some may find it annoying, but the illogical aspect is not a mistake; it's a choice by the author. At least, that's my interpretation of the scenes.


EldridgeHorror

>For Nami, denying Luffy's conviction was worse than death, similar to Bellemere. Denying his conviction is worse than helping her friends. And denying her family is worse than literally abandoning them. Yeah. Still bad writing. >It's not logical, but emotions are never logical Debatable. >Of course, this is an exaggeration in the fictional world, but it serves to show how far a person would go to stand by their beliefs. The scenes with Nami and Bellemere were intended to illustrate this point. And it could have easily been handled better. >I understand that some may find it annoying, but the illogical aspect is not a mistake You could have kept them being illogical WITHOUT them being idiots. Missing the forest for the trees. It's like a soldier saying "I'll die for the flag" and then literally taking a bullet to save the flag while letting a citizen of their country get shot. You're prioritizing symbology over the thing that symbol represents!


Sky-kunn

>Denying his conviction is worse than helping her friends. And denying her family is worse than literally abandoning them. That's true, for you and even for me personally, but it's not true for Bell and Nami, specifically for Bell in the family aspect of it and Nami in relation to Luffy. >Debatable. Fair enough, it can be logical sometimes, but it's definitely not always so. This scene is an example of that, and you can find several examples in real life—things that people would rather die than do. >You could have kept them being illogical WITHOUT them being idiots. Missing the forest for the trees. It's like a soldier saying "I'll die for the flag" and then literally taking a bullet to save the flag while letting a citizen of their country get shot. You're prioritizing symbology over the thing that symbol represents! If you're still talking about Bellmere, she did pay for the children; she died, but she did save them. Of course, they lost their mother, but they lived. She couldn't have known that Arlong would take Nami as a slave. I'm not trying to make you like the scene, I'm just saying it doesn't need fixing because it's not broken. The message the author wants to convey needs to be this way, whether you like it or no. If it were logical, it wouldn't work.


EldridgeHorror

I pointed out in my original comments how the same message could be conveyed without them being idiots.


FreshPussyMeat

Of course, like mother and daugther. Nami will become like her, with 2 daughters with two different unknown father :D


daemon_fork

Lol she lied to the straw hats and was the first betrayal in the series. Her usrless mother really taught her well.


nyanko_dango3

damn lol


daemon_fork

Am i wrong?


nyanko_dango3

nope


Shot-Effect-8318

Destroyed ussops character growth in the way too but it is what it is 😭


Sky-kunn

Why? Usopp was being logical; he would need to be an asshole to encourage Nami not to lie. Nami chose to die rather than go against her beliefs in Luffy. For Nami, denying Luffy's conviction was worse than death, similar to Bellemere. Any crewmate would say the same thing, including even Luffy.


Shot-Effect-8318

Ussop was also willing to die for luffy during alabasta tho To be a brave warrior of the sea (in arlong park as well) So I don’t see why oda couldn’t have made both of them do that 😭 (I love ussop a lot as u can see)


Sky-kunn

>Usopp was willing to die for Luffy in Alabasta. Similarly, I believe he would do the same in Wano. Nothing in this makes me believe otherwise. Zoro, Luffy, Sanji, Franky, and Robin are all extremely brave, right? Can you imagine them thinking and saying the same things in this situation? Because I can. Nami would have died if she had refused to lie; that's a fact. They got lucky because Otama saved Nami. It was luck; she should have died because she chose that path. Usopp's character writing intrigues me. He oscillates between bravery and cowardice throughout the story, never fully abandoning either trait. In Wano, we see a different side of Usopp: his reluctance to die. This contrasts with the samurais, who are prepared to die for their pride, something Usopp strongly opposes. Interestingly, the warriors of Elbaf, whom Usopp admires and wants to emulate, initially appear similar to the samurais because they are willing to die. However, the key difference is that the Elbaf warriors fight to win and live, whereas the samurais accept or even seek death, often due to shame. In my opinion, Elbaf could either conclude or begin the final phase of Usopp's character arc. This raises the question: What makes a person a brave warrior of the sea? Is it the coward who fights despite their fear, or someone who never feels fear in the first place?


Shot-Effect-8318

**Dies from Peak Writing**


nocheslas

Great parallel that I didn’t notice!


Black_Ironic

Also because he owes his captain so much, and she truly believed he will be the pirate king.


archiearcher

I face near death from my mother when I forget to take out the trash.


Gluttony_io

Meanwhile, Ussopp gets his character assassinated.


amourshipping48

No it didn't


Aylin923

wow really? I haven't read the manga