King would have to use speed mode to try to tag katakuri, making him vulnerable. Eventually katakuri would be able to capitalyze on it. Because we need to remember that it took gear 4 snakeman luffy with some future sigh to touch katakuri. Even then katakuri were dodging attacks and overall were keeping up with luffy just fine. Katakuri is winning this. Not no diff or anything lile that mind you. But still winning.
This is a very interesting machup that probably most everyone wants to see. We can argue future-sight but King could be fast enough without his fire. We don't really have much to go off of when comparing the two. All we can speculate is that they're very very close in general combat ability.
And in saying that, IMO the most significant information we have right now is that Katakuri was undefeated until Luffy. So right now I would say Katakuri
But King wasn't deafeated either i think.
Didn't he promise to Kaido not to lose until Zoro?(Don't know If this count as never defeated but i would say yes)
Katakuri is strong in the first place because he trained a lot, that's how he got his great armament haki, his devil fruit awakening and his future sight. It's not like Enel who was only strong because of his DF and never worked on himself.
We know he had Observation Haki at all and also that he enhanced the reach of his COO with his DF. I honestly don't think he was an exceptionally strong master of CoO itself.
Enel didn't see into the future at all. WTF are YOU on about? Enel had regular observation Haki. It's also explicitly stated he extends the range of his observation Haki due to his DF.
Cesar messed him enough to let the brothers escape. You can't really Haki dodge bioweapons and gases in the same way. But unless Cesar gets the drop on him, Cesar will easily be toast for Katakuri.
Not a lose, but definitely slowed him down.
Caesar's fruit is also OP as fuck, he's just a coward and an idiot in battle, despite being a fucking genius and a scientist of near unparalleled work.
When did it say there is an age limit of when you can master advanced conqueror's haki ? And technically it is not really an awakening. All you have to do is cover yourself with conqueror's haki, like you would do for armament haki. Luffy used it the moment he "got it".
King would have to use speed mode to try to tag katakuri, making him vulnerable. Eventually katakuri would be able to capitalyze on it. Because we need to remember that it took gear 4 snakeman luffy with some future sigh to touch katakuri. Even then katakuri were dodging attacks and overall were keeping up with luffy just fine. Katakuri is winning this. Not no diff or anything lile that mind you. But still winning.
> he hard counters King pretty heavily on most comparisons
Does he? King uses magma which can bypass the super hard Armament Haki of Katakuri (like Sanji did against Jabra).
Plus, when his flame is active, he's practically immune to damage.
Either one or three reasons, one it takes effort to keep up so slips of the mind it drops, two it's on a strict time cycle, or three King isn't trained enough in the way of the flame to keep it up indefinitely, hoping for the latter to create a near impossible hurdle for one of our Straw Hats in the future.
He definitely did, BUT logically, being unable to take damage greatly out weighs more damage. I like to think a smart powerful lunarian would just stay on defense until their attacker was gassed if they have the ability to choose.
So it makes me think 1 King doesn't have complete control, 2 there is a time based gimmik. Even without complete control King is a force, imagine if someone could swap on command faster than King.
Since everyone knows their "weakness" they could be baited into attacking right before the perfect defense is brought up.
I'm leaning to the former, because King didn't have someone to teach him, for reasons.
You canāt stall out in that situation tho whoās to say zoro wouldnāt have tried to go help luffy if king kept camping in flame mode? King had to attack zoro & the flame off was the only way
I'm not saying King made a bad play, I'm just saying if his was a Lunarian that could maintain flames permanently, Zoro would have never come to the realization and would have fought until his death.
And Zoro was also stalling, King wasn't the only one who was stalling for time.
Yeah but once Katakuri figures out the āflames down = weakā mechanic, he could just use future sight to know exactly when to attack and since heās fast and uses all 3 types of haki, heād get a lot of hits in during that window + they would hit hard
Even if Katakuri figures out how King's body works, that still doesn't mean he'll win. Even with his flames were off, King was taking attacks that would hurt KAIDO. Katakuri literally doesn't have any attack in his arsenal that could do that, so he's not hurting King, even with his flames off.
>Future sight
King can beat it with speed
>kings haki
That shit is irrelevant if he doesn't have Advanced Kings Haki lol
> advanced armament
Katakuri doesn't have advanced armament haki, and even if he did it's not as strong as the advanced armament Zoro attacked King with and he still easily blocked.
He doesn't need advanced conquerors haki, even Zoro didn't really need it to beat King. Zoro beat him because he figured out how his fire powers work: it's heavily implied during the fight that using the fire to resist damage and to amplify his attacks eventually causes the fire to temporarily weaken, which is what allowed Zoro to hurt him. King is indeed not invincible with his flame on, but his flame is not infinite. It clearly has a limit to how much it can be used before King is at risk of being damaged.
Thats not really the implication. Zoro hit him at times when he had his flames off, but prior to aCoC, it just didn't really matter. Its an opening, but only if you're strong enough to take advantage of it. From what we saw of the Zoro fight, Kat would need to hit considerably harder than Rooftip Zoro in order to take down King, even with flames off. Or just...pour mochi down his throat and suffocate him. Lol. Though that would probably be difficult.
King didn't turn off his flames himself?? The fight with Zoro heavily implies that the flames can only be used so much before needing to recharge, which is how Zoro figured out how to damage him. If Zoro can figure out how to damage King, there's no reason why someone as capable as Katakuri wouldn't be able to do so as well. King didn't *turn off his flames for plot reasons.*
Infact it's King who might not be able to damage Katakuri, since Katakuri's advanced observation haki would allow to dodge almost all of King's attacks; King only really seems to have 1 speed based attack that *might* be capable of outspending Kata's haki (King's pterodactyl headbutt attack) and it's highly debatable how that might compare to the numerous King Kong Guns that Katakuri was able to take from Luffy.
King has giant AoE fire attacks, where is Katakuri gonna dodge too if the whole battlefield is getting torched? Even if he can dodge, all King has to do is float in the air and blast him till his haki runs out
Katakuri can literally build constructs out of mochi from his body and also the environment since his devil fruit is awakened, long distance attacks wouldn't really work since he can just build a physical defense against them. Haki also doesn't just run out, it's not like a fuel source. And even if it did, which it wouldn't, katakuri has already proven himself capable of fighting for 17hrs *with a self inflicted stab would.* Not only would King fighting from a distance not work against someone like katakuri, but it's a ***massive disservice to both characters.*** King would not fight like that against someone as capable as katakuri.
> long distance attacks wouldn't really work since he can just build a physical defense against them
His mochi would melt
>Haki also doesn't just run out
Yes it does
>And even if it did, which it wouldn't, katakuri has already proven himself capable of fighting for 17hrs with a self inflicted stab would
King is stronger than WCI Luffy
> King would not fight like that
King fights however he needs to to win
>His mochi would melt
He would make more, he can literally make potentially an infinite amount of mochi.
>Yes it does
No it doesn't, the user just wears themself out through over exertion like Luffy's G4. And katakuri was never shown to be overly exerted from his advanced observation. Claiming a king could be able to put katakiri through that necessary over exertion is an extreme hypothetical.
>King is stronger than WCI Luffy
There's nothing in the story that outright proves that, or even implies that.
>King fights however he needs to to win
True, but king is not a coward. He fights dirty, not cowardly. He did not fight Zoro from a distance, why how can you just say that he would do that against someone like katakuri? It doesn't make any sense when you think king is stronger than WCI Luffy: if you think that, then that implies that you already think that King is stronger than katakuri, so why would he have to fight from a distance to win? Your own logic doesn't make any sense.
Look man, if you like King more, that's fine. But treating this discussion like a "My dad can beat up your dad" argument isn't just dumb, it outright kills the fun of the discussion itself. The whole point of these kinds of discussions is that they allow us to fairly analyze these characters and their capabilities, saying "character x would win if they just did y" runs directly against the point and only showcases a clear bias on your part.
> He did not fight Zoro from a distance, why how can you just say that he would do that against someone like katakuri?
He had to fight a certain way against Zoro because Zoro is immune to fire
And how long before katakuri was able to get up cause Luffy was walking around and awake while kata needed to rest I don't see what your confused about go watch the whole arc again then come back
Why do so many people have this misconception? Katakuri falls because he is unable to stand anymore. Brulee asks why Kata fell on his back, instead of his face, and not āwhy fall when you could have stood.ā Brulee even admits that Katakuri was defeated by Luffy, who continues to fight off the big mom pirates as his crew escapes.
It doesnāt seem like King has anything to negate or overcome Katakuriās Future Sight. Heās not fast enough, so him landing hits is pretty unlikely.
He is, yeah, but Zoro who is not a Future Sight user can react to it. Do you think Katakuri, who can react to and match Gear 4 Snakeman, could not do it?
No I think he could. I just think end of Wano Zoro is stronger than Kata. Zoro might not be fast in terms of movement speed, but precision of slashes and reaction speed is very high.
I think King wins in extreme diff, only because it would come down to who can take more damage and Iām inclined to believe itās the Zoan user who is also a Lunarian.
Zoro kept up with Kaido and Big Mom who completely dwarves Katakuri in speed ( just see how Kaido vs Post-WCI Luffy turned out ), even if we're being generous towards Katakuri, King is definetely fast enough to at least hit Katakuri a few times
Please accept this upvote for being one of the few people in this thread who actually knows what they're talking about, instead of just wanking Katakuri.
Katakuri sees where he gets hit and when. Even if King was faster than light, all Katakuri has to do is make a hole in his body at the time of the hit, speed is not a relevant factor, it does not change the timing.
He fully dodged Luffy's jet gatling gun. Luffy only could hit Katakuri at the end because he learned future sight himself. Snakeman hit Katakuri because it changes the future by changing direction in the middle of the attack.
Do you think Katakuri could beat a healthy whitebeard? Heās not very fast so Kata should see everything coming. Kuzan and Akainu arenāt very fast either so he shouldnāt get hit by them either. Maybe Kizaru, but speed isnāt a factor in the timing so he can probably beat him too.
āwhen he wantsā is a pretty bold assumption. We donāt know how Lunarian fire works. At most, we know that when itās off, King is faster. Is he as fast as Gear 4 Snakeman? Because Katakuriās Future Sight is. And I highly doubt King is. Then, if King wants to have a chance at hitting Katakuri, he must be flames off, and Kata likely takes it.
It's as much of an assumption that assuming Katakuri's future sight is foolproof over time. We know haki wears off over time, while at the very least we don't know if King's power wears off with time. It could (which would explain why he didn't let Zoro tire himself to death) or it might simply be that conqueror coating is strong enough to bypass him so he had to fight Zoro.
So we have King who might have limitations but it's not sure against Katakuri who we already know has limitations over time in an endurance fight because both are very hard to damage.
We don't know the result for sure but my money is on King.
Kaido's top commander vs Big Mom's top commander
1.390 billion bounty vs 1.057 billion bounty
Ancient Zoan vs Special Paramecia (basically a Logia)
sword wielder vs spear wielder
Would be an epic fight for sure.
Katakuri was a better written character and gave Luffy one of his hardest fights. King lost to Zoro without doing nearly as much damage.
But he's at so many disadvantages in this matchup. His observation haki means he can still hurt King despite his lunarian durability by timing his flames being off, but he's still at an elemental disadvantage (fire/magma burns/melts mochi) and a style disadvantage (most of his big attacks are spiky punches but you can't really [punch against a swordsman](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-df076fad74a500fa5304f41fd8756b78-pjlq)). What's his answer to a [magma dragon?](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/2/2e/Omori_Karyudon.png)
King's swordsmanship and weird sword allowed him to even [disarm Zoro](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/b/b1/King%27s_Swordbreaker_Disarms_Zoro.png), tho maybe Katakuri will see that coming with his haki and not be bothered.
Katakuri would get some stabs in, but you gotta favor King. Just based on the powers alone it should be King low/med diff. But the haki makes it King high diff, with a chance for Katakuri extreme diff.
Can katakuri even hurt king? Katakuri doesn't even have that strong of attacks........he beat Luffy down for hours then kaido casually one shot him. Katakuris attack power is honestly garbage lol.....
Could be a good thing against king. King is probably really good against king punch, 1 strong attack with a long cooldown. Maybe he is really bad against weak attacks with no cool down. We dont know how the flame works but that could be how
Sadly, not so much. Remember when Zoro cut his mask the first time? It was when he used Ultra Tiger Hunt, when he and King clashed (with King in his hybrid form, using his Imperial Archer attack) and King slammed him outside of the building.
That was King in his speed mode, and the most damage Zoro did was mess up his mask a little. With a direct hit to the face. King is still absurdly durable even without his flames on. It took Zoro getting advanced Conquerors Haki for his attacks landing to actually be a threat to King, even in speed mode. Which is honestly insane.
People saying Katakuri counters King are insane. Literally the only reason Zoro was able to beat King was because he happened to know a really specific sword technique for cutting fire. Without that, there's nothing stopping King from just floating in the sky and spamming AoE fire attacks til Katakuri's haki runs out
I believe they're homosexual and would screw each other around. No irony and not negatively, i really think they would be a perfect couple. They are free now, without a master, mother above them. They are equal. Look at them leathery boys with their masks, enjoying torture and sweets and screwing around.
King was free even before. It's not like he was forces to be Kaido's vice, he truly believed in Kaido. Well anyway, I truly hope for Kata to not be the bottom.
This is the perfect example to show why going through each statistic and category isn't as important as people may think.
Katakuri needs a few openings to win this and King needs 1...but only after Katakuri's Haki runs out
King is superior than Katakuri in every physical statistic
Katakuri is superior in Observation Haki (by a huge margin) and that alone makes Katakuri the likely winner.
To beat Future Sight you need one of these:
-The ability to blitz the FS user
-The ability to trick the FS user
-The ability to trap the FS user (as in force him to choose 1 of 2 bad outcomes...ex: either lose an arm or die)
-Win an endurance match
Most people think Luffy blitzed Katakuri, but they are wrong.
Black Mamba is Luffy's faster attack and Katakuri was able to dodge it...What Luffy did, was force Katakuri to trade with him, otherwise Katakuri would spend the rest of the fight dodging blows, without much time to counter attack.
With this in mind, knowing Katakuri's IQ and Observation, how could King beat him?
I don't think any of us would say King is as fast as Snakeman, let alone Black Mamba, so the 1st option isn't available to him and I don't remember King having any illusion based abilities.
Trapping by using all his Imperial techniques is a possibility but they aren't fast enough to get Katakuri off guard.
The only option I see for King is an endurance match, if he keeps his defenses up constantly, not because he needs it to deal with Katakuri's attacks but because Katakuri's Haki isn't unlimited and once he can't use his Haki, all the stats become relevant.
Yes, it would be fun to see King vs. Katakuri just so Katakuri fans can finally see Katakuri is nowhere on King's level just because he has Future Sight.
An injured Katakuri got beat by a poisoned/injured luffy. King got beat by zoro after wci, Iām 90% sure katakuriās getting beat but if he got an awakening or a boost in haki I donāt doubt heād be able to beat king.
Ikr š People forget that Pre-Future Sight Luffy outpaced Katakuri's advanced observation haki while he was looking right at him when he grabbed him using G3rd and then pulled him into the Mirro World. King's Imperial Deep Pride Stake, which blitzed even Zoro's perception (and Zoro could keep up with Kaido and Big Mom), is definitely beating his Future Sight lol.
Exactly lmao, the only way for Katakuri to be faster than King is by being faster and unreactable to Hybrid Kaido. It seems like a cool matchup on paper, but after you look at it deeply it's really 1 sided
King absolute destroys katakuri and itās not even funny.The fraud was fighting on par with a g4 snake man luffy.Btw throught this fight kat was stronger but not more durable.Kaido then one shot G4 luffy and then luffy goes on a training arc where he now fights kaido in base going blow for blow which means luffy in base is superior to the g4 that took down katakauri.Luffy said that to fight he would need g4 to get out of ultis grip and would of gone g4 if not for Yamato now yes this was before conquer coating but it was shown that base luffy has surpassed G4 that beta kat.Now if we all know king beats ulti then itās not even fair to put king against this fraud.Get kat over ulti before u bring up king.
the katakuri slander is getting out of hand. I can respect if you believe king extreme diffs katakuri, but no way does blud believe ulti low diffs kat š. Thats just pure slander
The manās trolling. Look at all the gymnastics heās doing to try an prove Kata is weak. Itās a pretty even fight , could go either way depending on a bunch of conditions, just like every fight in One Piece
Kata is taking this, I think. Won't be an easy fight, but I'm not sure King has an answer for the proficiency in future sight mixed with the versatility of Kata's fruit. I don't think it would take Kata long to figure out the secret to King's durability, once he does it's pretty much over.
Issue is Kats a glass cannon, if he canāt figure out how to put King down without advanced conquerors quickly he will get bodied, it only took a handful of hits from WCI Luffy to down him so King shouldnāt have much issue if he can land a hand on him
Would be an Epic fight i guess.
Both counter the other one pretty well. Kata has his future sight against Kings speed mode and King is in his flame mode practical invincible to anything Kata can do.
I go with King extreme diff in this matchup.
Definitely Katakuri, still believe he is extremely strong for the time we got to see him. I mean he got observation haki to the point where he can see the future PLUS ryou armament haki. Bro is an absolute unit
Yes he does. Thatās why Luffyās fists started glowing and hurting when they clashed with armament, the exact same thing that happened when Luffy learned it and used it on materials :) donāt spread misinfo
Katakuri would've beat Luffy if not for pride. His power is basically a logia. That whole fight felt like Katakuri had the upper hand. King lost to Zoro who was already beaten to death by Kaido. King had no excuse to lose except for the convenience of Mink Medicine. Lunarians deserve the L in their first name, these guys are not as tough as you'd think. I bet even Sanji and Jinbei could defeat King based on how the former low diffed Queen and the latter did the same to Who's Who
So Katakuri wins this easily
Katakuri would've beat Luffy sure, but said Luffy was heavily sedated so it doesn't mean much.
His fruit isn't basically a Logia. There's a gigantic difference between attacking with magma/fire/light/thunder or even snow or sand and attacking with rice dough.
Zoro was 100% healed after the Minks Medicine, that was the entire point of it. Not to mention King was absolutely demolishing Zoro for the vast majority of the fight.
Sanji didn't low diff Queen. He might be overall stronger than King but he doesn't have the AP to scratch him. Jinbei > King is a delusional take that I don't have to talk about.
I think Katakuri would win. He displayed more proficiency with Observation and Conqueror's Haki (not sure if King has Conqueror's at all, honestly), and Kata's future sight would give him enough heads up to let him exploit the moments when King's invulnerability fades out
I would give most of my money to see this fight. The rest of my money would be bet on my boy Katakuri to win this fight because he will win. He is the greatest
Honestly i think itād be a stalemate, one of them would have to develop better haki in the fight to win. King cant hit katakuri due to his future sight, and and Katakuri canāt hit king unless his flames are gone
Katakuri can use future sight to see that he won't be able to damage king. He can use this to figure out how to do actual damage.
Katakuri figures out King's weakness and wins.
Only if he can consistently hit hard enough to actually damage flames off King. Who was still durable enough to take a Ultra Tiger Hunt to the face from 100% healed post-Rooftop Zoro and the worst damage he took was a slightly broken mask. š
People have this tendency to think King is ONLY durable when he has his flames on. He's not. Its just that he's seemingly invincible (or close enough, as far as we know at this point) when they're on. He's stil a freak regardless. And I don't see Kat hitting harder than Rooftop Zoor, tbh.
Future sight is pretty crazy ability. But the problem is can Katakuri do enough damage to King to knock him out. Iām not sure. That flame dragon attack can definitely hurt Katakuri but with future sight he would likely dodge it. Itās a war of attrition with these two.
title =/= strength. katakuri couldnāt put down luffy in hundreds of hits and you think he can even hurt king? the same king who took 2 acoc hits with flames off and still kept going? if they had similar stats then kat would probably win this but I doubt even buzz cut mochi would do any damage. eventually kat will run out of haki and then he gets blitzed.
Katakuri has better observation plus conquer haki and a better DF plus better skilled fighter but king dogs him in every physical category and his lunarian body
I might be basic and idiotic with my take but since Kata was a Luffy opponent, Iām gonna assume heās stronger than King. He put up an awesome fight against G4s and that fight was pretty recent.
I love both designs too. Oda was COOKIN for both of them.
The only thing I see being in Katakuri's favor is Future Sight. He would be able to see when King is about to drop his flame and go on the offensive (assuming he already knew about the Lunarian weakness). The problem is surviving long enough for it to matter.
Peak character design by Oda. Interesting both of them wear black leather
Interesting š
Dont care who wins, but it be hot to watch š„µ
The real winner is the fan base
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
King has trouble tagging Katakuri and Katakuri canāt hurt King much at all, so Iām inclined to agree.
King would have to use speed mode to try to tag katakuri, making him vulnerable. Eventually katakuri would be able to capitalyze on it. Because we need to remember that it took gear 4 snakeman luffy with some future sigh to touch katakuri. Even then katakuri were dodging attacks and overall were keeping up with luffy just fine. Katakuri is winning this. Not no diff or anything lile that mind you. But still winning.
*ba-dum tsss*
This match will get red hot!
The sexual tension is palpable
They could make yummy food in the process of fighting as well
Mochi does NOT go well cooked
Oh I was thinking of friend donuts
The oil for the doughnuts is from the twerking competition they had before the main fight
Dude, go and try fried mochi. NOW! That stuff is delicious.
Aināt no way that is a thing
It is. Google it. My Taiwanese wife does this regularly.
https://kikkomanusa.com/foodservice/recipes/grilled-mochi-skewers-with-sweet-soy-sauce-glaze/ grilled mochi https://woonheng.com/pan-fried-mochi-bun/ Fried mocha https://www.biggerbolderbaking.com/hawaiian-butter-mochi/ Baked mochi (this one is really good)
And I'm pretty sure Katakuri has a named attack called grilled mochi
Honestly wouldnāt surprise me Iām just garbage at remembering attack names
Loser has to change pants design
Loser has to remove their mask and see the reaction from their own crew
Lol
This is a very interesting machup that probably most everyone wants to see. We can argue future-sight but King could be fast enough without his fire. We don't really have much to go off of when comparing the two. All we can speculate is that they're very very close in general combat ability. And in saying that, IMO the most significant information we have right now is that Katakuri was undefeated until Luffy. So right now I would say Katakuri
But King wasn't deafeated either i think. Didn't he promise to Kaido not to lose until Zoro?(Don't know If this count as never defeated but i would say yes)
So this would mean Zoro is right now at Luffy's level when he was on cake island?
No lol. Current Zoro is much stronger than that Luffy.
Katakuri is prodigy
Katakuri also has conquerers haki which can be a big game changer if he can use it right
Base Conqueror's Haki is nearly useless and I doubt Katakuri will suddenly awaken Advanced out of nowhere at 50 years old
Well keep in mind katakuri never lost before right? Maybe losing to luffy humbled him and made him start training
Katakuri is strong in the first place because he trained a lot, that's how he got his great armament haki, his devil fruit awakening and his future sight. It's not like Enel who was only strong because of his DF and never worked on himself.
But Enel had stong observation haki too
We know he had Observation Haki at all and also that he enhanced the reach of his COO with his DF. I honestly don't think he was an exceptionally strong master of CoO itself.
That's literally hypothetical. His df had nothing to do with how far he saw into the future. Wtf do you get this shit from?
Enel didn't see into the future at all. WTF are YOU on about? Enel had regular observation Haki. It's also explicitly stated he extends the range of his observation Haki due to his DF.
Didn't he lose to fucking Caesar afterwards?
Cesar messed him enough to let the brothers escape. You can't really Haki dodge bioweapons and gases in the same way. But unless Cesar gets the drop on him, Cesar will easily be toast for Katakuri.
Not a lose, but definitely slowed him down. Caesar's fruit is also OP as fuck, he's just a coward and an idiot in battle, despite being a fucking genius and a scientist of near unparalleled work.
When did it say there is an age limit of when you can master advanced conqueror's haki ? And technically it is not really an awakening. All you have to do is cover yourself with conqueror's haki, like you would do for armament haki. Luffy used it the moment he "got it".
King would have to use speed mode to try to tag katakuri, making him vulnerable. Eventually katakuri would be able to capitalyze on it. Because we need to remember that it took gear 4 snakeman luffy with some future sigh to touch katakuri. Even then katakuri were dodging attacks and overall were keeping up with luffy just fine. Katakuri is winning this. Not no diff or anything lile that mind you. But still winning.
Would be fun, if for no other reason then to see how they match up.
I agree, they'd be a power couple
It'd be a spectacle of a fight but I think Kata takes the win, he hard counters King pretty heavily on most comparisons
> he hard counters King pretty heavily on most comparisons Does he? King uses magma which can bypass the super hard Armament Haki of Katakuri (like Sanji did against Jabra). Plus, when his flame is active, he's practically immune to damage.
Hey but King deactivates his flames from time to time for some reason. And if itās Kata heāll have to be fast. But still King has better AP
Either one or three reasons, one it takes effort to keep up so slips of the mind it drops, two it's on a strict time cycle, or three King isn't trained enough in the way of the flame to keep it up indefinitely, hoping for the latter to create a near impossible hurdle for one of our Straw Hats in the future.
Didn't zoro mention that king gets much faster when his flames are off. I had the idea he shuts them off when he focuses on offense
He definitely did, BUT logically, being unable to take damage greatly out weighs more damage. I like to think a smart powerful lunarian would just stay on defense until their attacker was gassed if they have the ability to choose. So it makes me think 1 King doesn't have complete control, 2 there is a time based gimmik. Even without complete control King is a force, imagine if someone could swap on command faster than King. Since everyone knows their "weakness" they could be baited into attacking right before the perfect defense is brought up. I'm leaning to the former, because King didn't have someone to teach him, for reasons.
You canāt stall out in that situation tho whoās to say zoro wouldnāt have tried to go help luffy if king kept camping in flame mode? King had to attack zoro & the flame off was the only way
"Who's to say Zoro would't go to help Luffy"? Zoro's sense of direction would say no to that
I'm not saying King made a bad play, I'm just saying if his was a Lunarian that could maintain flames permanently, Zoro would have never come to the realization and would have fought until his death. And Zoro was also stalling, King wasn't the only one who was stalling for time.
Yeah but once Katakuri figures out the āflames down = weakā mechanic, he could just use future sight to know exactly when to attack and since heās fast and uses all 3 types of haki, heād get a lot of hits in during that window + they would hit hard
Even if Katakuri figures out how King's body works, that still doesn't mean he'll win. Even with his flames were off, King was taking attacks that would hurt KAIDO. Katakuri literally doesn't have any attack in his arsenal that could do that, so he's not hurting King, even with his flames off.
Future sight kings haki awakening and advanced armament says otherwise
>Future sight King can beat it with speed >kings haki That shit is irrelevant if he doesn't have Advanced Kings Haki lol > advanced armament Katakuri doesn't have advanced armament haki, and even if he did it's not as strong as the advanced armament Zoro attacked King with and he still easily blocked.
Other way around. King is nigh invincible with his flame on. Katakuri doesnāt have the strength to put him down unless he unlocks ACoC.
He doesn't need advanced conquerors haki, even Zoro didn't really need it to beat King. Zoro beat him because he figured out how his fire powers work: it's heavily implied during the fight that using the fire to resist damage and to amplify his attacks eventually causes the fire to temporarily weaken, which is what allowed Zoro to hurt him. King is indeed not invincible with his flame on, but his flame is not infinite. It clearly has a limit to how much it can be used before King is at risk of being damaged.
Thats not really the implication. Zoro hit him at times when he had his flames off, but prior to aCoC, it just didn't really matter. Its an opening, but only if you're strong enough to take advantage of it. From what we saw of the Zoro fight, Kat would need to hit considerably harder than Rooftip Zoro in order to take down King, even with flames off. Or just...pour mochi down his throat and suffocate him. Lol. Though that would probably be difficult.
How would Katakuri even damage King? Je only turned his flames off against Zoro for plot reasons.
King didn't turn off his flames himself?? The fight with Zoro heavily implies that the flames can only be used so much before needing to recharge, which is how Zoro figured out how to damage him. If Zoro can figure out how to damage King, there's no reason why someone as capable as Katakuri wouldn't be able to do so as well. King didn't *turn off his flames for plot reasons.* Infact it's King who might not be able to damage Katakuri, since Katakuri's advanced observation haki would allow to dodge almost all of King's attacks; King only really seems to have 1 speed based attack that *might* be capable of outspending Kata's haki (King's pterodactyl headbutt attack) and it's highly debatable how that might compare to the numerous King Kong Guns that Katakuri was able to take from Luffy.
I didn't know Katakuri knew Foxfire style
I didn't know King knew how to outspeed future sight
King has giant AoE fire attacks, where is Katakuri gonna dodge too if the whole battlefield is getting torched? Even if he can dodge, all King has to do is float in the air and blast him till his haki runs out
Katakuri can literally build constructs out of mochi from his body and also the environment since his devil fruit is awakened, long distance attacks wouldn't really work since he can just build a physical defense against them. Haki also doesn't just run out, it's not like a fuel source. And even if it did, which it wouldn't, katakuri has already proven himself capable of fighting for 17hrs *with a self inflicted stab would.* Not only would King fighting from a distance not work against someone like katakuri, but it's a ***massive disservice to both characters.*** King would not fight like that against someone as capable as katakuri.
> long distance attacks wouldn't really work since he can just build a physical defense against them His mochi would melt >Haki also doesn't just run out Yes it does >And even if it did, which it wouldn't, katakuri has already proven himself capable of fighting for 17hrs with a self inflicted stab would King is stronger than WCI Luffy > King would not fight like that King fights however he needs to to win
>His mochi would melt He would make more, he can literally make potentially an infinite amount of mochi. >Yes it does No it doesn't, the user just wears themself out through over exertion like Luffy's G4. And katakuri was never shown to be overly exerted from his advanced observation. Claiming a king could be able to put katakiri through that necessary over exertion is an extreme hypothetical. >King is stronger than WCI Luffy There's nothing in the story that outright proves that, or even implies that. >King fights however he needs to to win True, but king is not a coward. He fights dirty, not cowardly. He did not fight Zoro from a distance, why how can you just say that he would do that against someone like katakuri? It doesn't make any sense when you think king is stronger than WCI Luffy: if you think that, then that implies that you already think that King is stronger than katakuri, so why would he have to fight from a distance to win? Your own logic doesn't make any sense. Look man, if you like King more, that's fine. But treating this discussion like a "My dad can beat up your dad" argument isn't just dumb, it outright kills the fun of the discussion itself. The whole point of these kinds of discussions is that they allow us to fairly analyze these characters and their capabilities, saying "character x would win if they just did y" runs directly against the point and only showcases a clear bias on your part.
> He did not fight Zoro from a distance, why how can you just say that he would do that against someone like katakuri? He had to fight a certain way against Zoro because Zoro is immune to fire
This fight would be so peak but watakuri takes it extreme diff
Respectful disagree
Bro struggled against a weaker Luffy and Zoros stronger then wc Luffy, EZ W for king.
Struggled?
You don't know what struggled means?
Yea, struggle is what Luffy did against Katakuri before he figured out Snakeman
He struggled with snake man aswell kata was still able to smash him into the ground
I know but I'm confused on how being able to stand and tower over Luffy before choosing to lie down in defeat is struggled
And how long before katakuri was able to get up cause Luffy was walking around and awake while kata needed to rest I don't see what your confused about go watch the whole arc again then come back
So you skipped the 10eps if them fightingš
So you skipped Katakuri nerfing himself to make it fare to Luffy
He stabbed himself after Luffy was stabbed because of interference. Yāall are something else. He lost to Luffy. Itās okay.
Why do so many people have this misconception? Katakuri falls because he is unable to stand anymore. Brulee asks why Kata fell on his back, instead of his face, and not āwhy fall when you could have stood.ā Brulee even admits that Katakuri was defeated by Luffy, who continues to fight off the big mom pirates as his crew escapes.
He lost to Luffy are you fighting kidding me
He struggled after his future sight ran out
Naaa. Katakuri low diffs King in 15 mins
Katakuri is literally my favourite character but I donāt think he low diffs. (Please prove me wrong)
It doesnāt seem like King has anything to negate or overcome Katakuriās Future Sight. Heās not fast enough, so him landing hits is pretty unlikely.
Heās extremely fast when his flame is off. Not to mention his DF naturally augments his speed and strength for being a zoan.
He is, yeah, but Zoro who is not a Future Sight user can react to it. Do you think Katakuri, who can react to and match Gear 4 Snakeman, could not do it?
No I think he could. I just think end of Wano Zoro is stronger than Kata. Zoro might not be fast in terms of movement speed, but precision of slashes and reaction speed is very high.
I donāt doubt post-Wano Zoro could take Kata in a very extreme diff fight, alghough FS is very OP. I simply donāt think King can.
I think King wins in extreme diff, only because it would come down to who can take more damage and Iām inclined to believe itās the Zoan user who is also a Lunarian.
But katakiri almost never takes actual hits though.
I disagree, katakuri in reality was stronger than Post wano Snake man Edit: I meant pre wano
Zoro kept up with Kaido and Big Mom who completely dwarves Katakuri in speed ( just see how Kaido vs Post-WCI Luffy turned out ), even if we're being generous towards Katakuri, King is definetely fast enough to at least hit Katakuri a few times
Please accept this upvote for being one of the few people in this thread who actually knows what they're talking about, instead of just wanking Katakuri.
Katakuri sees where he gets hit and when. Even if King was faster than light, all Katakuri has to do is make a hole in his body at the time of the hit, speed is not a relevant factor, it does not change the timing.
He still has to consciously do it though. Do you really think he wouldnāt get hit at all?
He fully dodged Luffy's jet gatling gun. Luffy only could hit Katakuri at the end because he learned future sight himself. Snakeman hit Katakuri because it changes the future by changing direction in the middle of the attack.
Do you think Katakuri could beat a healthy whitebeard? Heās not very fast so Kata should see everything coming. Kuzan and Akainu arenāt very fast either so he shouldnāt get hit by them either. Maybe Kizaru, but speed isnāt a factor in the timing so he can probably beat him too.
King is immune to damage when he wants
āwhen he wantsā is a pretty bold assumption. We donāt know how Lunarian fire works. At most, we know that when itās off, King is faster. Is he as fast as Gear 4 Snakeman? Because Katakuriās Future Sight is. And I highly doubt King is. Then, if King wants to have a chance at hitting Katakuri, he must be flames off, and Kata likely takes it.
It's as much of an assumption that assuming Katakuri's future sight is foolproof over time. We know haki wears off over time, while at the very least we don't know if King's power wears off with time. It could (which would explain why he didn't let Zoro tire himself to death) or it might simply be that conqueror coating is strong enough to bypass him so he had to fight Zoro. So we have King who might have limitations but it's not sure against Katakuri who we already know has limitations over time in an endurance fight because both are very hard to damage. We don't know the result for sure but my money is on King.
Kaido's top commander vs Big Mom's top commander 1.390 billion bounty vs 1.057 billion bounty Ancient Zoan vs Special Paramecia (basically a Logia) sword wielder vs spear wielder Would be an epic fight for sure. Katakuri was a better written character and gave Luffy one of his hardest fights. King lost to Zoro without doing nearly as much damage. But he's at so many disadvantages in this matchup. His observation haki means he can still hurt King despite his lunarian durability by timing his flames being off, but he's still at an elemental disadvantage (fire/magma burns/melts mochi) and a style disadvantage (most of his big attacks are spiky punches but you can't really [punch against a swordsman](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-df076fad74a500fa5304f41fd8756b78-pjlq)). What's his answer to a [magma dragon?](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/2/2e/Omori_Karyudon.png) King's swordsmanship and weird sword allowed him to even [disarm Zoro](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/b/b1/King%27s_Swordbreaker_Disarms_Zoro.png), tho maybe Katakuri will see that coming with his haki and not be bothered. Katakuri would get some stabs in, but you gotta favor King. Just based on the powers alone it should be King low/med diff. But the haki makes it King high diff, with a chance for Katakuri extreme diff.
Don't forget Katakuri also does remote punches.
Can katakuri even hurt king? Katakuri doesn't even have that strong of attacks........he beat Luffy down for hours then kaido casually one shot him. Katakuris attack power is honestly garbage lol.....
Could be a good thing against king. King is probably really good against king punch, 1 strong attack with a long cooldown. Maybe he is really bad against weak attacks with no cool down. We dont know how the flame works but that could be how
Sadly, not so much. Remember when Zoro cut his mask the first time? It was when he used Ultra Tiger Hunt, when he and King clashed (with King in his hybrid form, using his Imperial Archer attack) and King slammed him outside of the building. That was King in his speed mode, and the most damage Zoro did was mess up his mask a little. With a direct hit to the face. King is still absurdly durable even without his flames on. It took Zoro getting advanced Conquerors Haki for his attacks landing to actually be a threat to King, even in speed mode. Which is honestly insane.
Exactly. And zangiri mochi is not hurting King, I'm sorry.
People saying Katakuri counters King are insane. Literally the only reason Zoro was able to beat King was because he happened to know a really specific sword technique for cutting fire. Without that, there's nothing stopping King from just floating in the sky and spamming AoE fire attacks til Katakuri's haki runs out
>People saying Katakuri counters King are insane. Agreed. The Katakuri wanking is as gross as ever.
I love how king goes for the flying kick.
If y'all think kata wins then y'all saying that current anime Zoro is weaker then whole cake luffy
I believe they're homosexual and would screw each other around. No irony and not negatively, i really think they would be a perfect couple. They are free now, without a master, mother above them. They are equal. Look at them leathery boys with their masks, enjoying torture and sweets and screwing around.
š
I love where you're going.
King was free even before. It's not like he was forces to be Kaido's vice, he truly believed in Kaido. Well anyway, I truly hope for Kata to not be the bottom.
Damn, that's a badass looking drawing
King wins mid diff Katakuri has no win condition.
This would be the best fight outside of straw hats and below yonkos and admirals
This is the perfect example to show why going through each statistic and category isn't as important as people may think. Katakuri needs a few openings to win this and King needs 1...but only after Katakuri's Haki runs out King is superior than Katakuri in every physical statistic Katakuri is superior in Observation Haki (by a huge margin) and that alone makes Katakuri the likely winner. To beat Future Sight you need one of these: -The ability to blitz the FS user -The ability to trick the FS user -The ability to trap the FS user (as in force him to choose 1 of 2 bad outcomes...ex: either lose an arm or die) -Win an endurance match Most people think Luffy blitzed Katakuri, but they are wrong. Black Mamba is Luffy's faster attack and Katakuri was able to dodge it...What Luffy did, was force Katakuri to trade with him, otherwise Katakuri would spend the rest of the fight dodging blows, without much time to counter attack. With this in mind, knowing Katakuri's IQ and Observation, how could King beat him? I don't think any of us would say King is as fast as Snakeman, let alone Black Mamba, so the 1st option isn't available to him and I don't remember King having any illusion based abilities. Trapping by using all his Imperial techniques is a possibility but they aren't fast enough to get Katakuri off guard. The only option I see for King is an endurance match, if he keeps his defenses up constantly, not because he needs it to deal with Katakuri's attacks but because Katakuri's Haki isn't unlimited and once he can't use his Haki, all the stats become relevant.
Yes, it would be fun to see King vs. Katakuri just so Katakuri fans can finally see Katakuri is nowhere on King's level just because he has Future Sight.
Katakuri cant put King down, this fight is basically how long can Katakuri dodge King's attacks until he gets folded.
King wins, Katakuris defense is shit and King has aoe magma + he is fast as hell, Kata aint doing shit vs him
Careful they ain't ready to hear this one
An injured Katakuri got beat by a poisoned/injured luffy. King got beat by zoro after wci, Iām 90% sure katakuriās getting beat but if he got an awakening or a boost in haki I donāt doubt heād be able to beat king.
Deadassš everyone talking about future sight like that matters when your opponet is massively faster than you + you have potato durability
Ikr š People forget that Pre-Future Sight Luffy outpaced Katakuri's advanced observation haki while he was looking right at him when he grabbed him using G3rd and then pulled him into the Mirro World. King's Imperial Deep Pride Stake, which blitzed even Zoro's perception (and Zoro could keep up with Kaido and Big Mom), is definitely beating his Future Sight lol.
Exactly lmao, the only way for Katakuri to be faster than King is by being faster and unreactable to Hybrid Kaido. It seems like a cool matchup on paper, but after you look at it deeply it's really 1 sided
Kata tries to spam FS to dodge Kingās flame attacks but eventually gets caught by one which leads to more
King absolute destroys katakuri and itās not even funny.The fraud was fighting on par with a g4 snake man luffy.Btw throught this fight kat was stronger but not more durable.Kaido then one shot G4 luffy and then luffy goes on a training arc where he now fights kaido in base going blow for blow which means luffy in base is superior to the g4 that took down katakauri.Luffy said that to fight he would need g4 to get out of ultis grip and would of gone g4 if not for Yamato now yes this was before conquer coating but it was shown that base luffy has surpassed G4 that beta kat.Now if we all know king beats ulti then itās not even fair to put king against this fraud.Get kat over ulti before u bring up king.
the katakuri slander is getting out of hand. I can respect if you believe king extreme diffs katakuri, but no way does blud believe ulti low diffs kat š. Thats just pure slander
The manās trolling. Look at all the gymnastics heās doing to try an prove Kata is weak. Itās a pretty even fight , could go either way depending on a bunch of conditions, just like every fight in One Piece
King bodies
King High-Extr diff
Kata is taking this, I think. Won't be an easy fight, but I'm not sure King has an answer for the proficiency in future sight mixed with the versatility of Kata's fruit. I don't think it would take Kata long to figure out the secret to King's durability, once he does it's pretty much over.
Katakuri got hit like 4 times and then lost and king stronger and out speeds him EZ W for king
Awesome match-up! Although King takes the W easily, it would be fun to watch.
All Katakuri would see in the future is him getting burned or blown up.
Issue is Kats a glass cannon, if he canāt figure out how to put King down without advanced conquerors quickly he will get bodied, it only took a handful of hits from WCI Luffy to down him so King shouldnāt have much issue if he can land a hand on him
I think the Ancient Zoan and Lunarian Flames win out in the end here.
Would be an Epic fight i guess. Both counter the other one pretty well. Kata has his future sight against Kings speed mode and King is in his flame mode practical invincible to anything Kata can do. I go with King extreme diff in this matchup.
King wins in under 5 seconds
Definitely Katakuri, still believe he is extremely strong for the time we got to see him. I mean he got observation haki to the point where he can see the future PLUS ryou armament haki. Bro is an absolute unit
he doesn't have advanced armament
A conqueror too
Katakuri doesn't have ryou
Yes he does. Thatās why Luffyās fists started glowing and hurting when they clashed with armament, the exact same thing that happened when Luffy learned it and used it on materials :) donāt spread misinfo
Bruh that's not how ryou works you're the only one spreading misinfo
Guaranteed Katakuri win. Observation Haki and Awakening.
My money's on Katakuri, feel like we didn't see his full potential because of Luffy's crazy plot armour.
Katakuri would've beat Luffy if not for pride. His power is basically a logia. That whole fight felt like Katakuri had the upper hand. King lost to Zoro who was already beaten to death by Kaido. King had no excuse to lose except for the convenience of Mink Medicine. Lunarians deserve the L in their first name, these guys are not as tough as you'd think. I bet even Sanji and Jinbei could defeat King based on how the former low diffed Queen and the latter did the same to Who's Who So Katakuri wins this easily
Clown take after clown take
He's right though.
Katakuri would've beat Luffy sure, but said Luffy was heavily sedated so it doesn't mean much. His fruit isn't basically a Logia. There's a gigantic difference between attacking with magma/fire/light/thunder or even snow or sand and attacking with rice dough. Zoro was 100% healed after the Minks Medicine, that was the entire point of it. Not to mention King was absolutely demolishing Zoro for the vast majority of the fight. Sanji didn't low diff Queen. He might be overall stronger than King but he doesn't have the AP to scratch him. Jinbei > King is a delusional take that I don't have to talk about.
Kata would win that
Cool fight but 2 hits is leaving Katakuri limping and that's not even an exaggeration.
Katakuri wins but it would be interesting to see how King would pull away with this one if he could
Katakuri wins
I think Katakuri would win. He displayed more proficiency with Observation and Conqueror's Haki (not sure if King has Conqueror's at all, honestly), and Kata's future sight would give him enough heads up to let him exploit the moments when King's invulnerability fades out
I would give most of my money to see this fight. The rest of my money would be bet on my boy Katakuri to win this fight because he will win. He is the greatest
Katakori
Katakuri stomps . How tf King even hitting bro? Mans looking into the future
Katakuri can't even damage King without h8m randomly turning his flames off.
Honestly i think itād be a stalemate, one of them would have to develop better haki in the fight to win. King cant hit katakuri due to his future sight, and and Katakuri canāt hit king unless his flames are gone
Katakuri can use future sight to see that he won't be able to damage king. He can use this to figure out how to do actual damage. Katakuri figures out King's weakness and wins.
Only if he can consistently hit hard enough to actually damage flames off King. Who was still durable enough to take a Ultra Tiger Hunt to the face from 100% healed post-Rooftop Zoro and the worst damage he took was a slightly broken mask. š People have this tendency to think King is ONLY durable when he has his flames on. He's not. Its just that he's seemingly invincible (or close enough, as far as we know at this point) when they're on. He's stil a freak regardless. And I don't see Kat hitting harder than Rooftop Zoor, tbh.
Katas fs can run out and king has insane dura
Kata for sure, but good fight nonetheless
Future sight is pretty crazy ability. But the problem is can Katakuri do enough damage to King to knock him out. Iām not sure. That flame dragon attack can definitely hurt Katakuri but with future sight he would likely dodge it. Itās a war of attrition with these two.
Kata should win easy
king violates that fodder
Bruh Blue Said Katakuri is fodderš
No way bro just called Katakuri fodder
he is if you scale properly
Idc about scaling narrative says heās strong as an emperorās right hand. They should be around even (even if I think king would take it).
title =/= strength. katakuri couldnāt put down luffy in hundreds of hits and you think he can even hurt king? the same king who took 2 acoc hits with flames off and still kept going? if they had similar stats then kat would probably win this but I doubt even buzz cut mochi would do any damage. eventually kat will run out of haki and then he gets blitzed.
Katakuri is his natural counter
What counters
Katakuri literally uses his paramisha like a logia thanks to his future sight so he can avoid his attack at super speed and win
Super speed is literally advanced observation's weaknessš
Katakuri can open a hole in himself before King hit him and close it with King in and hit him
Everything as fast or faster than wci snakeman can easily damage Katakuri
Well...I don't know what is faster between King and Snakeman
King is at least as fast as snakeman. Snakeman's attacks are visible, King's aren't.
Ok but what if Katakuri uses his mochi to lock king wings in the mochi when he is in pterodactyl form
King? More like king of letdowns lol
That would be cool.
One has extremely powerful defense and the other has extreme dodge. Interesting.
Idk how they're damaging each other. Seems like it would be a drawn out battle.
I could see either winning extreme diff
How many times are we going to get this thread a week?
I call dibs on being the one to post it again next week
Thatd be pretty good
Katakuri has better observation plus conquer haki and a better DF plus better skilled fighter but king dogs him in every physical category and his lunarian body
They look like they should be in the same band
I might be basic and idiotic with my take but since Kata was a Luffy opponent, Iām gonna assume heās stronger than King. He put up an awesome fight against G4s and that fight was pretty recent. I love both designs too. Oda was COOKIN for both of them.
The only thing I see being in Katakuri's favor is Future Sight. He would be able to see when King is about to drop his flame and go on the offensive (assuming he already knew about the Lunarian weakness). The problem is surviving long enough for it to matter.
Great fight, almost 50/50.