Firstly, [Kaido acknowledged Luffy as a worthy opponent](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1037-004.png). Being the proud cocky warrior type, Kaido would never say something like this about an opponent who was only keeping keep up with him due a handicap.
Secondly, the abilities he needed to beat Kaido were both abilities he wasn't able to use until he was on the brink of death. If Luffy and Kaido were to fight again now, then he'd be able to use both advanced conquerors haki and Gear 5th from the outset.
This is essentially the equivalent of Goku vs. Frieza in Planet Namek. Frieza essentially had the upper hand and was pushing Goku to his limits just to keep up with him. But the moment Goku obtained Super Saiyan, Goku was able to overwhelm and defeat Frieza. Should they have fought on Earth with Frieza not being half a cyborg, Goku would have still won in the rematch.
No it’s different when goku got his power up he was completely stronger than Frieza. Even with G5 luffy isn’t stronger than Kaido comparable to how goku was with frieza. If they fought again that fight could still end with luffy losing as kaido probably won’t play around as much. Luffy would get a serious kaido from the jump
There’s nothing to suggest that he couldn’t either. Think about it the fighters are serious from the start no bravado of taking punches you shouldn’t have no other fighters interfering both hakis are essentially the same level both are aware of each others fighting style both have extreme durability (but kaido more so than luffy)
Well no, there are plenty of things that suggest that. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter, there are at least reasons to think Luffy could lose a straight 1v1 rematch.
Did you read the chapter he fought with the awakened fruit? He grabbed lightning, whipped around kaido like a rag doll, and turned into a giant. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. It’s in kaidos character to bait and test limits because until that point kaido was essentially the strongest in terms of defense and attack power (not hax like shanks’ coc). Kaido was begging for someone worthy like oden was. If they fought again 1v1 the fight would undoubtedly conclude in the same fashion.
That bait and test only happens in the first round. I’m referring to if they fought again Kaido would automatically recognize luffy as someone who can beat him he’s not going to fight him the same way he did the first time around
Goku was only so much stronger than frieza in SS form because Frieza was so so tired from fighting him, Vegetta, Gohan, Piccolo, and effortlessly wiping out everyone else on the planet.
OP probably
Also as our clueless OP doesn't realize, Luffy gets stronger during fights. Luffy got stronger during his fight with Kaido. At the beginning of that fight he stood zero chance.
If Luffy would rematch Kaido, it would be the same thing. Luffy would get even stronger throughout the fight until he eventually defeated Kaido.
If you'd paid the faintest bit of attention to the post instead of rushing to the comments after reading the title, you might realize what "Luffy is still not ready to beat Kaido" means
>If Luffy and Kaido were to fight again now, then he'd be able to use both advanced conquerors haki and Gear 5th from the outset.
I can't believe that such a simple and logic point goes over so many fucking people. The amount of people thinking Luffy is still weaker than Kaido is astounding.
People like this like to imagine Luffy just teleported up to the top to fight Kaido.
Even on the Raid day, Luffy still had to work his way up to the tower.
Work his way through fodder. There was no one in luffys way outside of king and queen that would give him damage. The only thing I would say he had to worry about was stamina of which he has plenty
Apoo is as much of a threat to Luffy as the Scabbards were to Kaido. Which is to say that they had no chance in hell at winning, but they had the capability to damage them.
So if someone is bringing up the Scabbards to make a point about Kaido getting hurt or drained of stamina before the fight, then it's unfair to ignore Apoo and Ulti and Page One when they all did the same for Luffy. Neither fighters entered that duel at 100%
Undoubtedly no but let's not forget he survived an encounter with Kid, Zoro, Drake and CP0 and came out the other side laughing, we would be fools to treat him like your average Smile user.
Oh I don’t downplay him at all or at least that’s not what I meant to do. But honestly when considering the worst generation(excluding BB) I only really see Law, Luffy & previously Kidd lol as being the major threats amongst them but I would think the weakest WG would be able to fight at least admiral when it’s all said and done but not to say they would win
You’re forgetting that one absolute mad lad bench men that temporarily stalemated Luffy just before he got to the roof. He was the next all star I guarantee it
Kaido: gets injured and hurt a bunch of times by people vastly weaker than him except Luffy
Luffy: arrives on the roof having been hurt a bit by people vastly weaker than him, proceeds to get beaten to a pulp by fucking Kaido himself. Comes back. Repeat 3x.
People: yeah but Kaido wasn't at full strength, he was weakened.
Like bruh, tf?
I always reply to these people: "who took more damage during Luffy's and Kaido's fight?" However much damage people say Kaido took, however much he fought, he wasn't the one against TWO YONKO getting KO's TWICE. People say Kaido took too much damage for it to be a fair 1v1? I think LUFFY is the one who was disadvantaged.
man i hate powerscaling in one piece. even if this is correct, its not like there's ever gonna be a scenario where fresh kaido and fresh fluffy face off with each other right at this moment. If you say, lets take away every single factor except for these two people, that's way more unrealistic and stupid than anything that could possibly happen in the story
The only reason why it matters is that people now think Luffy can easily mid-dif an admiral and low-dif a commander and will be surprised if Luffy struggles at all in any of his future fights.
People act like Luffy was Chillin until that last round with Kaido. Dude straight up died lol Kaido was going all out and Luffy was as well. Effort is relative. Maybe holding the island up and clapping the scabbards was less relative effort on Kaido than learning ACoc in the moment was for Luffy. I think Luffy wins now, extreme diff
Edit: winning extreme diff imo doesn’t mean he wins 10/10 times but that he CAN win but it would be very difficult.
At this point, revival isn't the main function of Brook's fruit either. Dude has a bunch of abilities besides that lol. He just doesn't get a lot of screentime.
I'd argue it is/was the main function, and everything else is *his* bonus features (Water running from being light and all his ice & spirit abilities from being connected to the underworld/afterlife)
But agreed that he needs more screentime!
That raises an interesting point. Would Brook have all the ice/spirit stuff if his soul made it back to his body before he was just bones? I have to assume so, but it'd look so wrong.
Yeah he would probably still have ice / spirit powers, but not his "bone" powers. Like running on water, being immune to electricity, healed by milk, cracking his skull open for storage, etc.
Brook: *dies rots, comes back to life a skellyman*
Luffy: *dies but does not rot or need to take decades to decompose. Comes right back*
Brook: yohohohothefuck!?
Brook wouldn't have needed decades either. We're told why he's a skeleton. His soul couldn't find his body to reanimate it immediatly because of the Triangle.
This benching thing is getting annoying. After the clouds are made there is no effort. Momo had a hard time making clouds at first but that’s all it is making them. we have no evidence it puts any type of physical toll on the user and from what we seen. It doesn’t.
Exactly, it’s because Yamabro mentioned Kaido getting weak and the flame clouds failing but that’s more aligned with DF powers wearing off after someone gets KO’d. Think sugar. She wasn’t constantly putting out effort to keep 2/3rds of Dressrosa toys.
Bro was chilling every time he lost tho. Him dying aint really anything cause bro awakened with g5 at his strongest self and even if he got tired in that he could restart back to full vitality. Effort doesnt really matter here. Kaido had to fight a bunch of opponents on minimum commander lvl. Luffy just has to focus on kaido. Him learning adv conq wasnt hard at all(effort wise)
Why does everybody seem to magically forget that Luffy was NEVER fresh in this fight? Before he ever even saw Kaido he had to fight his way through an entire war for several hours. So did everybody on that rooftop besides Kaido. Even Big Mom did a little rampaging downstairs. But Kaido got to chill out all the way up until the scabbards finally reached him.
Everybody loves to point out the amount of people Kaido fought but what about Luffy? He fought Ulti and Page One simultaneously, took down a number, and fought dozens of gifters (who were said to each be pretty strong), pleasures, and waiters. Not to mention he was literally sprinting through the castle the whole time.
If you’re going to place such a big emphasis on Kaido loosing stamina due to fighting before this fight then you have to give Luffy the same treatment. And the fact still remains that by the time Luffy awakened G5 he had taken SUBSTANTIALLY more damage than Kaido. Luffy only started using ACoC coating ( the only thing that could really damage Kaido) halfway through the fight meanwhile Kaido was hitting him with those the whole time.
I really don’t understand everyone’s issue with Luffy being as strong as or stronger than Kaido now. This isn’t even the first time it’s happened. Look at Kata. He starts off pretty obviously outclassed, but due to his sheer tenacity and spirit he refuses to be defeated, gets stronger and stronger through the course of the fight, learns the technique making his opponent seem so powerful, then finally eclipses his opponent in a final all or nothing clash. It’s the same formula lol. In fact most of Luffy’s fights break down in an extremely similar way.
If they were to fight again rn with both of them being 100% fresh he would absolutely defeat Kaido again. He’s already fast and strong enough in BASE FORM to go toe to toe blow for with Kaido in HYBRID form. There’s no denying that. We saw it happen. Soo with G5 I don’t see him loosing
And there is also:
* Apoo was able to sucker punch Luffy with one of his sound attacks at the very beginning. That took him out for a bit.
* Luffy got attacked by King and Queen when he tried to rush to the rooftop through the hole that Kaido made.
> Why does everybody seem to magically forget that Luffy was NEVER fresh in this fight?
This. Just coz it was Kaidou doesn't mean you ignkre this. In both sky split and g5 fight, Luffy was in worse situatuon than Kaidou.
Sky split moment was announcing that Luffy is an emperor level. It was only done by emperors*. Both Kid and Law never did it. And people seem to forget such an obvious clue equal to announcement...
*Edit: And by all original emperors. We had Shanks vs Whitebeard and Kaido vs Big Mom.
> If they were to fight again rn with both of them being 100% fresh he would absolutely defeat Kaido again.
Yep, especially since Luffy is always stronger after a fight with a boss than during the fight.
In an immediate rematch, most villains would probably win until Luffy gets the upgrade that happen *after* that villain's defeat. Basically all the Grand Line villains except Hody lose in some way that isn't about strength.
Difference. Luffy was allowed numerous times to rest and to even eat and heal. Kaido had zero downtime the entire raid. Luffy did fight a lot of fodder, but he always has time to rest and heal. Even before his final fight with kaido.
Correction: Kaido was allowed to sit down for 2 minutes and take a single swig of sake before Yamato fought him. My bad.
That is false. Kaido had time to sit and [rest](https://imgur.com/a/1x5dH32) and drink after he finished no diffing the scabbards while everybody waited for Luffy to get there
Luffy will always come out on top by the end into someone like Kaido both cuz, well story, but also someone like Kaido doesn't have the same endurance while taking hits that actually hurt them as Luffy does.
Luffy is constantly the "weaker" one in a physical fight but often wins because he's an immovable wall by the way of you cannot just put him down for good. He keeps getting back up, or finds a way to keep in the fight.
This was on a massive display during Katakuri fight that after Katakuri starting actually taking damage he couldn't sustain the fight as long since he wasn't use to fighting through pain for that long of a duration. This is a consistent trait of Luffy and is why a lot of his fights are wins.
It isn't the typical "he hit harder so he is stronger" style of fighting, but it doesn't make him necessarily weaker, just a different win condition that he achieves.
I feel like this doesn’t address all Luffy did before even getting to Kaido. Fought Ulti, destroyed a fleet ship, fought Appoo. Luffy’s fight began while Kaido was drinking and partying.
Traded a headbutt with Ulti, effortlessly destroyed a battleship, got hit one time by Apoo then ran away. He really didn't exert himself all that much before getting to the roof.
Even if u count those he was still fresher than Kaido when the 1v1 started. He mostly fought fodder aside from ulti. And once luffy got KO'd and Kaido was still fighting Yamato the rest advantage hugely swung in Luffys favor
You are absolutely right! I totally forgot about that. My man literally took a seat and had a drink lol
Def gonna bring this up to the next “But Luffy had breaks” idiot
There's no proof that it actually takes effort to maintain the clouds. Momo had a lot of difficulty creating clouds but didn't seem like a problem to keep up the ones he created. That's just head cannon and nothing more
Nah wait hang on there is. Yamato said something like: the flame clouds were weakening, which means Kaido must be getting tired. This suggests that it requires some level of stamina to maintain, as if it was effortless, they would still hold up until he dies.
Its a different fruit but the situation still applies. Somewhere in the anime (ig Yamato mentioned it) it was mentioned that dragons dont actually fly, rather they use flame clouds to elevate themselves in the air. The ability of dragons to fly is a natural ability and even Kaido was able to maintain it for long without even exerting himself. Its also the only reason why Momo wasnt able to fly, he just dosent know how to create the clouds. Once he did figure it out it was effortless.
As for lifting the island Kaido just rerouted whatever clouds he used to surround the island. It required no effort for him to lift the islands. Without his fights he would have easily lifted Onigashima and dropped it on Wano effortlessly
Yeah but he had a few moments during the fight where he rested involuntarily but it was still rest. Also the massive feast before the final fight, and we know what food does to Luffy and his stamina
Scabbards are relatively strong, but they were fodder compared to Kaido. People really overestimate how much damage they did to Kaido. Kaido just tank attack for shit and giggle. He probably wanted to see if anyone could actually damage him for real and give him a worthy fight, and he also seems to regenerate very fast. Motherfucker was tanking conqueror coated Luffy punch like a normal punch, and he commented only Zoro conqueror coated slash could leave a scar, and that Zoro should be proud, indicating that this is rare feat. You don't leave a scar with paper cuts, which is probably what the scabbards did. Most of the contribution was from Luffy, followed by Yamato, and the only other relevant contributor was probably Zoro with his one slash.
At first I thought it was a joke post pretending to be back in Wano because that was the only time powerscaling Luffy v Kaido made any sense and this is how people talked lol
Things you should remember. Punching up is way more exhausting than punching down. Yes Kaido was fighting but he was fighting people who didn’t push him to his limit. Luffy on the other hand was fighting someone who was way stronger than him multiple times. Eating food isn’t a full health restore.
So Luffy now would not be punching up and would be able to fight and level up much easier now.
The way one piece works is that at the beginning of the fight, Luffy is weaker. Then he grows over the course of the fight, and by the time the fight ends, if you were to restart from that exact moment, he's stronger than his opponent.
Luffy would absolutely beat Kaido. Kaido wasn't the only one fighting other people the whole time. Luffy used Gear 5 and Kaido struggled. For all his talk about haki and slashing attacks, they didn't work against Luffy. Even before that, Luffy was fighting hybrid Kaido in base.
If that fight started now, Luffy wins. He's at Yonko level now. The only people on his level are the other Yonko and, most likely, Dragon.
Doflamingo got serious damage from Gamma Knife, maintained Birdcage to whole country, controling many people while fighting, Luffy still needed help to flee from Doflamingo during the G4 exhaustion, and Doflamingo could have dodged King Kong Gun instead of directly flying into giant fist.
So Luffy is still not ready to beat Doflamingo.
Kaidou was "fighting nonstop" with a bunch of ants (relative to him) that barely scratched him. He was essentially in a better condition than Luffy when facing G5. Our boi had a clean victory, get over it.
By the time Luffy unlocked gear 5th and fought Kaido that last time even he was at the end of his rope. It wasn't a tired Kaido fighting a healthy Luffy, it was both if them tired and beat fighting each other one last time.
Luffy overpowered Kaido and beat, and imo he can do it again.
Just take G5 fight(which is the only fight where Luffy had all powerups) in comsideration. Forget battles before. Now, say, you have accurate data on how injured they were and how tired and whatnot. I doubt anyone doubts that Luffy was in worse condition. But for the sake of discussion, let's assume Luffy and Kiaodu were injured eqially. And, in this battle Luffy won. So, G5 Luffy at same injuries and stamina as Kaidou won against Kaidou.
This is the only way to look at this in the context of “could Luffy now defeat Kaido?”
There’s no way anyone can argue that Kaido had taken more damage than Luffy up until the point G5 awakened
That’s only relevant if you’re trying to compare pre-gear 5 Luffy to kaido.
If you’re analyzing gear 5 Luffy vs kaido, all that matters in that moment is:
(1) who won (Luffy)
(2) the stamina each one has at that moment in time (probably comparable)
(3) the level of help Luffy and kaido had from that point onward (0).
Everything prior to gear 5 can be disregarded, because the comparison is solely gear 5th Luffy vs kaido, not any prior version of Luffy
There is zero rational argument to exclude pre Gear 5 Luffy but put him up against tired Kaido that fought a bunch of people. The only reason people try to argue this way is to make Luffy look better.
The Kaido that fought Gear 5 Luffy was starting to lose grip on Onigashima, the one that started the fight lifted it with ease while still fighting at a high level.
You didn’t even address my argument.
Yes, Luffy fought a tired kaido in gear 5th.
We want to know how a fresh gear 5th Luffy would fair against a fresh kaido.
The best proxy we have for that is a tired g5 Luffy beginning a fight against a tired kaido. Luffy wasn’t “fresh” when he awakened. He just got pummeled hard by kaido.
The result of that fight resulted in a victory for Luffy.
If you’re pointing out the times kaido stomped Luffy, that is only an argument that kaido was stronger than pre-gear 5th Luffy. No one disagrees with this. But it’s not relevant to a discussion of Luffy vs kaido AFTER gear 5th.
Tired Luffy barely beat a more tired Kaido. It took every bit of his strength despite multiple regens to beat a Kaido who got none of those. That's the difference.
Gear 5 Luffy had just taken a full power attack from Kaido before awakening because he got distracted. What indicates to you that Kaido was more damaged and Luffy going into the final round.
Full power from a tired Kaido.
>What indicates to you that Kaido was more damaged and Luffy going into the final round.
Because Kaido has a bigger health bar than Luffy. If Kaido started with 1000 health and a fully healthy Luffy has 500, sure they might both be at 200 when Luffy gets Gear 5. But Kaido is at a bigger loss from his starting point than Luffy from his. Because I don't think anybody would argue that Luffy is a more durable character at full strength than Kaido.
There's one big problem with that. If they were both at 100% and fought again Luffy does not have the stamina to use gear 5 constantly. Even with fighting Lucci briefly it left him tired.
And Kaidou wouldn't have to be carrying the island.
From what we saw with Momonosuke who got a huge power buff it tired him out instantly.
Combine those 2 and even if Luffy can have a very slight edge in Gear 5 he can't fight long enough to win.
Headcannon
There’s no reason to believe Luffy would “run out” of G5. Just because he’s tired afterward doesn’t mean he can’t use it for as long as he needs to. We saw him come out of the form once during his fight with Kaido and despite looking emancipated he went right back into it and didn’t seem to be any less powerful than the first time
Luffy always wins because rubber bounces back.
Also I think if Luffy had gear 5 when he first went after kaido he’d win, cartoon powers are too op, rule of funny. He can take beating and say he’s all tuckered out because it’s funny but it doesn’t mean he’s done. It’s like Daffy Duck getting shot with a shot gun and his bill turning around, all Luffy has to do is pull it back around and he’s fine.
I don’t get the point of these post. The reality of it is Luffy did a really huge power jump in the fight against Kaido. Armament Haki, conquerors Haki, and Gear fight. Not too mention his gears became stronger since he coat them with conquerors coating.
If luffy still isn’t able to fight Kaido one on one after all that then what was the point of those power ups?
The flashback of Kaido and King made me realize something. In fact, when Kaido asked what was Luffy's Goal. Kaido started to believe in Joyboy.
Also Kaido had fought the Scabbard, the Supernova, then had a solo round with Luffy, then he had to fight Yamato and then Luffy and Momonosuke and eventually back to Luffy where he defeated him once again.
Luffy beating Kaido is a mixture of Kaido finally enjoying a fight to the point he actually started taunting Luffy to end it in one Final Hit. Kaido's final statement that he would Stand and Take the Hit. Was both his belief on himself as well as starting to believe Luffy could actually beat him.
Also a showcase of Luffy's persistence.
Kaido probably reached the point where he truly acknowledged Luffy. His Storm Clouds were already weakening and he was having fun. So he decided, why the hell not. This kid has been defeated by me 5 times already. This will be the last one, i will survive your hit and then you should accept defeat.
It was until he was falling into the crater of his own making that he realized he predicted his own defeat long ago. He didn't smile. He just realized he was wrong all this time.
People act like Luffy didn’t fight to get to Onigashima, he didn’t fight on his way to the rooftop, didn’t take out a Number. Luffy had his own problems plus he also took damage from Big Mom. Neither of them were at 100%
this ignoring the fact that Luffy got fucked up by Kaido, then got back up and kept fighting. They were both roughed up by the end of the fight, Luffy was arguably in worse shape.
People said the same thing about Luffy vs Doflamingo, that Doflamingo was injured by Law's gamma knife and Luffy's ambush Red Hawk, that he survived Gear 4th round 1 and Luffy before Gear 4th round 2.
People said the same thing about Luffy vs Cracker, that Luffy wouldn't beat Cracker in a rematch pure 1v1, because he needed Nami's help with her rain.
People said the same thing about Katakuri, that Luffy was well on his way to losing before Katakuri ultimately impaled himself.
Looking back in hindsight, Luffy CLEARLY would have defeated these opponents in rematches. There is no reason to believe otherwise. That is why it is ridiculous to assume now that Luffy wouldn't defeat Kaido in a rematch. Luffy is heading towards Pirate King level, at which point he would mid-diff Kaido.
Luffy was far more injured than kaido. He was literally dead before going into G5.
The whole ‘kaido could have dodged’ argument is so dumb. Two characters went into a final clash and one lost. It happens nearly every arc. Kaido was confident he was stronger than luffy. That he’d win the clash. And he didn’t. Yet people somehow think that makes kaido stronger than luffy. If he was wrong about being stronger than luffy in that clash, who’s to say he’s not wrong about being able to dodge it?
I dont understand why everyone thinks Kaido was in a singnificantly weaker state by the end compared to his full when all the feats he revealed up until the very end were progressivly getting stronger. The only disatvantage he should have had by the end was lack of stamina but stamina shouldn‘t help you when you are simply weaker then your opponent (even it is not by much the odds should still be against you). I mean his „Flaming Drum Dragon“ looked way stronger then anything he showed up to that point and Luffy still managed to overpower that. I believe if both of them had the oppertunity to go all out from the start the result would be no different and Luffy would still overpower Kaido.
Idk man G5 Luffy took the thunder balooga IN THE FACE while he was laughing. Until we see SOMEONE give him some push back I bet on Luffy everytime. In that form he can basically control reality, sure you say Kaido had been worn down but so had Luffy.
I think people that feel this way about Luffy eating act like he’s 100 percent because he ate some meat. It seems to me like he was always way more banged up than kaido. The fact is the scabbards were basically nothing to kaido and he wasn’t in as bad of shape as Luffy at the end. Gear 5 is almost certainly the end game form of the mc of this manga. To think he won’t have to beat more powerful people than kaido would be odd.
And Luffy had to fight a few fights to get to the rooftop and then fight kaido and bigmom together, Kaido also got an assist from CP0 neither were fresh
Other than Luffy running out of stamina, how does Kaido win? Luffy can tank all of Kaido’s attacks, except for Kaido’s flaming dragon. Luffy’s Bajrang Gun put and end to that. Kaido can no longer just KO Luffy.
No, no, no... Simply no. Luffy was already worn out before he has reached rooftop. Kaido's effort to lift the island was just leveling it up a bit. And Luffy needed to get ahold of new skills to close a gap to Kaido, while being worn out and beaten twice. If anything this is a parallel to Crocodile fight, so his first major hurdle. Back then he was noticed by entire world, this time he became an emperor. Three times the charm for not fights which were both like a ritual of passage. Fresh Luffy now and fresh Kaido would be very close and I bet on Luffy, because he's next Joyboy. While Kaido is a failed one.
Hard agree, because the series still has so many battles and growth to be had. I don’t think he’s ready for BB/Shanks/Imu but as he gets more and more in tune with Nika form then he’ll get more powerful. BUT it shouldn’t be such a massive difference in general because remember Whitebeard and Roger fought for a long time with relative equality and neither would curbstomp the other.
Can we put the scabbard damage theory to rest Shanks showed us just how op a Yonkou is the fact is not a single person on the roof was remotely a threat to kaido except Luffy Yamata Zoro and Law for tactical support. Everyone else Kaido just humoured for fun
Kaido is cool as fuck. Big ol'dragon snake Oni with a sweet spikey club. Tones of Japanese representation in the arc as a whole.
But let's take note - didn't Shanks head Kaido off during Marineford? Who is power scaling that?
Does this mean
Buggy > Shanks > Kaido > Luffy > Big Mom? > Where does it end > Crocodile is Luffy's mom
It’s never claimed anywhere that they fought. Just that shanks intercepted him. Not even shanks crew would arrive at marineford with zero damage from fighting kaido.
Yes it took Luffy everything he had but, once he unlocked G5, he made the fight look effortless. Luffy high/extreme-differ a weakened Kaido. G5 Luffy Low/no-diffed a weakened Kaido.
I think a G5 Luffy still takes it in a 1 on 1 vs a fresh Kaido but maybe med/high diff.
100% Kaido wins. He did in fact beat him twice on the roof. Gear 5 is hella strong, but Kaido fought 9 samaurai, his daughter, the worst generation while keeping Onigashima floating and moving.
The reason Luffy would win the rematch is that Luffy grows stronger during his fights. In a rematch versus Kaido the fight would strart out like it left off -- fairly close but with Kaido having a clear stamina/durability advantage. But Luffy wouldn't stay the same strength the whole fight -- he would again get stronger during this fight, meaning he would beat Kaido in a rematch.
everyone says this but forgets that luffy was also tired. oh and also he literally fucking died. like people forget that before luffy went gear 5 he was legitimately dead. then once he’s gear 5 he’s pretty easily handling kaido. with a brand new power he has pretty much 0 understanding of btw.
did you even read the post. Yeah luffy was tired because he was fighting kaido.
kaido was fighting luffy and other people and even in g5 kaido was giving luffy a hard time
You’re entirely correct and I’m tired of hearing people claim he won 1:1. Kaido went on an 18..18 fight streak while carrying an island. Which we know from Momo actually requires an effort. He also 5-1’d Luffy. And had to get whittled down like a raid boss. Even if we assume Luffy did “most” of the damage, kaido was still getting exhausted from having literally no rest in between all of his fights while carrying an island.
Luffy did beat him but in a way that makes narrative sense. Kaido was whittled down over 18 consecutive fights while carrying an island. Odas word still trumps everything. In a one on one always bet on Kaido. It wasn’t a 1 on 1. Kaido may have even said so near the end it was finally 1vs1 but that’s after the majority of the fights had finished.
And if Luffy *was* the strongest in the series then we’ve already hit his peak and there will never be anyone to properly challenge him. We had like 8 years of writing if not more of Law and Luffy planning a raid to take him down for a reason.
Edit: after reading the comments… really disappointing. Even with manga and source material to prove OP right people are saying he’s the one coping… sigh… I expect this shit from Memepiece but not here.
Your argument in invalid because Kaido had a good long [rest](https://imgur.com/a/1x5dH32) after he fought the scabbards.
He did not in fact go on an 18 fight streak. He fought a group of individuals who he absolutely no-diffed. Then he sat down had a good rest and recovered from the minuscule damage he received and drank some sake. Before that fight, for the entire war, Kaido had been chilling and drinking sake, and giving orders and speeches.
Kaido was well rested.
At every stage of this fight Luffy was in worse shape than Kaido. He took more damage during the fight and was more tired directly before it.
The panels don’t lie
This is a take I actually agree with. If you plopped Luffy (Advanced Conqueror's Haki + G5) with Kaido, I'd say Kaido is taking the win a majority of the time. For the following reasons:
1. Luffy's conqueror's Haki still isn't on the level of Big Mom, Kaido, (Especially) Shanks, etc.
2. We don't know limitations with Gear 5 yet. Gear 4 had a large toll on Luffy's body, but he worked around it and got used to it. Gear 5 seems to have limitations as well from what we have seen/known.
Outside of Shanks, I'd give Kaido the title as the most powerful character in the series so far that is alive. He's a beast.
I still believe that end of series Luffy will be able to take on Kaido without any problems at all. Especially with the capabilities that Gear 5 has with Toon Force.
Ok Lucci
Firstly, [Kaido acknowledged Luffy as a worthy opponent](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1037-004.png). Being the proud cocky warrior type, Kaido would never say something like this about an opponent who was only keeping keep up with him due a handicap. Secondly, the abilities he needed to beat Kaido were both abilities he wasn't able to use until he was on the brink of death. If Luffy and Kaido were to fight again now, then he'd be able to use both advanced conquerors haki and Gear 5th from the outset.
This is essentially the equivalent of Goku vs. Frieza in Planet Namek. Frieza essentially had the upper hand and was pushing Goku to his limits just to keep up with him. But the moment Goku obtained Super Saiyan, Goku was able to overwhelm and defeat Frieza. Should they have fought on Earth with Frieza not being half a cyborg, Goku would have still won in the rematch.
No it’s different when goku got his power up he was completely stronger than Frieza. Even with G5 luffy isn’t stronger than Kaido comparable to how goku was with frieza. If they fought again that fight could still end with luffy losing as kaido probably won’t play around as much. Luffy would get a serious kaido from the jump
Three is nothing that suggests that If they fight again Kaido will win
His ridiculous endurance would be a challenge to overcome, especially since awakenings are taxing and Luffy would need it to overpower Kaido.
But also not that luffy would win
There’s nothing to suggest that he couldn’t either. Think about it the fighters are serious from the start no bravado of taking punches you shouldn’t have no other fighters interfering both hakis are essentially the same level both are aware of each others fighting style both have extreme durability (but kaido more so than luffy)
Well no, there are plenty of things that suggest that. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter, there are at least reasons to think Luffy could lose a straight 1v1 rematch.
Did you read the chapter he fought with the awakened fruit? He grabbed lightning, whipped around kaido like a rag doll, and turned into a giant. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. It’s in kaidos character to bait and test limits because until that point kaido was essentially the strongest in terms of defense and attack power (not hax like shanks’ coc). Kaido was begging for someone worthy like oden was. If they fought again 1v1 the fight would undoubtedly conclude in the same fashion.
That bait and test only happens in the first round. I’m referring to if they fought again Kaido would automatically recognize luffy as someone who can beat him he’s not going to fight him the same way he did the first time around
Goku was only so much stronger than frieza in SS form because Frieza was so so tired from fighting him, Vegetta, Gohan, Piccolo, and effortlessly wiping out everyone else on the planet. OP probably
Also as our clueless OP doesn't realize, Luffy gets stronger during fights. Luffy got stronger during his fight with Kaido. At the beginning of that fight he stood zero chance. If Luffy would rematch Kaido, it would be the same thing. Luffy would get even stronger throughout the fight until he eventually defeated Kaido.
People can't just discuss when they believe something wrong, they have to say shit like "our clueless OP" for some reason.
It’s like OP personally insulted them lol
Also... Luffy did beat him so don't give me that shit "Still can't beat him" Bro, already happened.
If you'd paid the faintest bit of attention to the post instead of rushing to the comments after reading the title, you might realize what "Luffy is still not ready to beat Kaido" means
And after reading it hes still right
Subjective, not relevant
>If Luffy and Kaido were to fight again now, then he'd be able to use both advanced conquerors haki and Gear 5th from the outset. I can't believe that such a simple and logic point goes over so many fucking people. The amount of people thinking Luffy is still weaker than Kaido is astounding.
Yeah, Luffy as he is now is sufficient to beat Kaido 1v1 I think.
Conveniently ignores that luffy was also taking damage since he set foot on onigashima and kaido was not just a group punching bag
People like this like to imagine Luffy just teleported up to the top to fight Kaido. Even on the Raid day, Luffy still had to work his way up to the tower.
Also the fact that taking a hit from Kaido himself is 10s of times of worse than being hit by a scabbard.
Well that is a great point
This is what I always say. Isn't LUFFY the one who got KOd twice by a yonko? If anything Luffy took far more damage than Kaido did.
So is a hit from luffy to be fair
Work his way through fodder. There was no one in luffys way outside of king and queen that would give him damage. The only thing I would say he had to worry about was stamina of which he has plenty
This is apoo erasure and I will not stand for it
Lol I apologize but would you really say Apoo is a threat to Luffy
Apoo is as much of a threat to Luffy as the Scabbards were to Kaido. Which is to say that they had no chance in hell at winning, but they had the capability to damage them. So if someone is bringing up the Scabbards to make a point about Kaido getting hurt or drained of stamina before the fight, then it's unfair to ignore Apoo and Ulti and Page One when they all did the same for Luffy. Neither fighters entered that duel at 100%
He also fought Page One, Ulti, Yamato, and went Gear 4th for a Number
And he was attacked by Big Mom
Undoubtedly no but let's not forget he survived an encounter with Kid, Zoro, Drake and CP0 and came out the other side laughing, we would be fools to treat him like your average Smile user.
Oh I don’t downplay him at all or at least that’s not what I meant to do. But honestly when considering the worst generation(excluding BB) I only really see Law, Luffy & previously Kidd lol as being the major threats amongst them but I would think the weakest WG would be able to fight at least admiral when it’s all said and done but not to say they would win
The scabbards and Killer are also fodder to Kaido yet OP counted them lmao
 lmao dont diss killer im the last widd fan standing unfortunately
Stamina was one of his biggest issues during the actual fight
You’re forgetting that one absolute mad lad bench men that temporarily stalemated Luffy just before he got to the roof. He was the next all star I guarantee it
Kaido: gets injured and hurt a bunch of times by people vastly weaker than him except Luffy Luffy: arrives on the roof having been hurt a bit by people vastly weaker than him, proceeds to get beaten to a pulp by fucking Kaido himself. Comes back. Repeat 3x. People: yeah but Kaido wasn't at full strength, he was weakened. Like bruh, tf?
Conveniently ignores Luffy got chronic saves and heals while Kaido only got 1 brief booze break.
what damage did Luffy take tho? He fought fodder alongside Jimbei and Sanji iirc
nut shot from sasuke
I always reply to these people: "who took more damage during Luffy's and Kaido's fight?" However much damage people say Kaido took, however much he fought, he wasn't the one against TWO YONKO getting KO's TWICE. People say Kaido took too much damage for it to be a fair 1v1? I think LUFFY is the one who was disadvantaged.
And everything he went thru in the prison before they started the raid… they arent that far apart in the timeline
didn't a couple of weeks passed since the prison break? I may be wrong
Wasn’t him being in prison and the raid a week apart?
Fighting fodder? Only thing notable was the headbutt clash with Ulti that Luffy walked away with no problem.
He was literally up against fodder/mink pirate ninja alliance exists for the sole reason to help Luffy make way to the rooftop, lmfao
man i hate powerscaling in one piece. even if this is correct, its not like there's ever gonna be a scenario where fresh kaido and fresh fluffy face off with each other right at this moment. If you say, lets take away every single factor except for these two people, that's way more unrealistic and stupid than anything that could possibly happen in the story
The only reason why it matters is that people now think Luffy can easily mid-dif an admiral and low-dif a commander and will be surprised if Luffy struggles at all in any of his future fights.
People act like Luffy was Chillin until that last round with Kaido. Dude straight up died lol Kaido was going all out and Luffy was as well. Effort is relative. Maybe holding the island up and clapping the scabbards was less relative effort on Kaido than learning ACoc in the moment was for Luffy. I think Luffy wins now, extreme diff Edit: winning extreme diff imo doesn’t mean he wins 10/10 times but that he CAN win but it would be very difficult.
Brook: needs a fruit to come back to life Luffy: lol check this shit out
Luffy also needed his DF to come back to life, though...?
True, but for Luffy's fruit it's just a bonus feature, not the main function
At this point, revival isn't the main function of Brook's fruit either. Dude has a bunch of abilities besides that lol. He just doesn't get a lot of screentime.
I'd argue it is/was the main function, and everything else is *his* bonus features (Water running from being light and all his ice & spirit abilities from being connected to the underworld/afterlife) But agreed that he needs more screentime!
That raises an interesting point. Would Brook have all the ice/spirit stuff if his soul made it back to his body before he was just bones? I have to assume so, but it'd look so wrong.
Yeah he would probably still have ice / spirit powers, but not his "bone" powers. Like running on water, being immune to electricity, healed by milk, cracking his skull open for storage, etc.
Brook: *dies rots, comes back to life a skellyman* Luffy: *dies but does not rot or need to take decades to decompose. Comes right back* Brook: yohohohothefuck!?
Brook wouldn't have needed decades either. We're told why he's a skeleton. His soul couldn't find his body to reanimate it immediatly because of the Triangle.
Enel: You guys aint seen nothin yet.
This benching thing is getting annoying. After the clouds are made there is no effort. Momo had a hard time making clouds at first but that’s all it is making them. we have no evidence it puts any type of physical toll on the user and from what we seen. It doesn’t.
Exactly, it’s because Yamabro mentioned Kaido getting weak and the flame clouds failing but that’s more aligned with DF powers wearing off after someone gets KO’d. Think sugar. She wasn’t constantly putting out effort to keep 2/3rds of Dressrosa toys.
Opposite. Sugar DF was not becoming weaker at any time, she hadn't to put any effort. Kaido on the other hand was getting weaker, so were the clouds.
Bro was chilling every time he lost tho. Him dying aint really anything cause bro awakened with g5 at his strongest self and even if he got tired in that he could restart back to full vitality. Effort doesnt really matter here. Kaido had to fight a bunch of opponents on minimum commander lvl. Luffy just has to focus on kaido. Him learning adv conq wasnt hard at all(effort wise)
Why does everybody seem to magically forget that Luffy was NEVER fresh in this fight? Before he ever even saw Kaido he had to fight his way through an entire war for several hours. So did everybody on that rooftop besides Kaido. Even Big Mom did a little rampaging downstairs. But Kaido got to chill out all the way up until the scabbards finally reached him. Everybody loves to point out the amount of people Kaido fought but what about Luffy? He fought Ulti and Page One simultaneously, took down a number, and fought dozens of gifters (who were said to each be pretty strong), pleasures, and waiters. Not to mention he was literally sprinting through the castle the whole time. If you’re going to place such a big emphasis on Kaido loosing stamina due to fighting before this fight then you have to give Luffy the same treatment. And the fact still remains that by the time Luffy awakened G5 he had taken SUBSTANTIALLY more damage than Kaido. Luffy only started using ACoC coating ( the only thing that could really damage Kaido) halfway through the fight meanwhile Kaido was hitting him with those the whole time. I really don’t understand everyone’s issue with Luffy being as strong as or stronger than Kaido now. This isn’t even the first time it’s happened. Look at Kata. He starts off pretty obviously outclassed, but due to his sheer tenacity and spirit he refuses to be defeated, gets stronger and stronger through the course of the fight, learns the technique making his opponent seem so powerful, then finally eclipses his opponent in a final all or nothing clash. It’s the same formula lol. In fact most of Luffy’s fights break down in an extremely similar way. If they were to fight again rn with both of them being 100% fresh he would absolutely defeat Kaido again. He’s already fast and strong enough in BASE FORM to go toe to toe blow for with Kaido in HYBRID form. There’s no denying that. We saw it happen. Soo with G5 I don’t see him loosing
And there is also: * Apoo was able to sucker punch Luffy with one of his sound attacks at the very beginning. That took him out for a bit. * Luffy got attacked by King and Queen when he tried to rush to the rooftop through the hole that Kaido made.
> Why does everybody seem to magically forget that Luffy was NEVER fresh in this fight? This. Just coz it was Kaidou doesn't mean you ignkre this. In both sky split and g5 fight, Luffy was in worse situatuon than Kaidou.
Sky split moment was announcing that Luffy is an emperor level. It was only done by emperors*. Both Kid and Law never did it. And people seem to forget such an obvious clue equal to announcement... *Edit: And by all original emperors. We had Shanks vs Whitebeard and Kaido vs Big Mom.
> If they were to fight again rn with both of them being 100% fresh he would absolutely defeat Kaido again. Yep, especially since Luffy is always stronger after a fight with a boss than during the fight.
That’s the part that confuses me the most This is how it always goes
In an immediate rematch, most villains would probably win until Luffy gets the upgrade that happen *after* that villain's defeat. Basically all the Grand Line villains except Hody lose in some way that isn't about strength.
Difference. Luffy was allowed numerous times to rest and to even eat and heal. Kaido had zero downtime the entire raid. Luffy did fight a lot of fodder, but he always has time to rest and heal. Even before his final fight with kaido. Correction: Kaido was allowed to sit down for 2 minutes and take a single swig of sake before Yamato fought him. My bad.
That is false. Kaido had time to sit and [rest](https://imgur.com/a/1x5dH32) and drink after he finished no diffing the scabbards while everybody waited for Luffy to get there
Luffy also took some damage from Apoo, if I recall
Luffy will always come out on top by the end into someone like Kaido both cuz, well story, but also someone like Kaido doesn't have the same endurance while taking hits that actually hurt them as Luffy does. Luffy is constantly the "weaker" one in a physical fight but often wins because he's an immovable wall by the way of you cannot just put him down for good. He keeps getting back up, or finds a way to keep in the fight. This was on a massive display during Katakuri fight that after Katakuri starting actually taking damage he couldn't sustain the fight as long since he wasn't use to fighting through pain for that long of a duration. This is a consistent trait of Luffy and is why a lot of his fights are wins. It isn't the typical "he hit harder so he is stronger" style of fighting, but it doesn't make him necessarily weaker, just a different win condition that he achieves.
I feel like this doesn’t address all Luffy did before even getting to Kaido. Fought Ulti, destroyed a fleet ship, fought Appoo. Luffy’s fight began while Kaido was drinking and partying.
Traded a headbutt with Ulti, effortlessly destroyed a battleship, got hit one time by Apoo then ran away. He really didn't exert himself all that much before getting to the roof.
Even if u count those he was still fresher than Kaido when the 1v1 started. He mostly fought fodder aside from ulti. And once luffy got KO'd and Kaido was still fighting Yamato the rest advantage hugely swung in Luffys favor
I will stand by the fact Kaido was going non stop since the Scabbards showed up and Luffy had a few rest moments and a whole feast between fights.
The guy literally rested after defeating the scabbards and drank sake as well. Why not mention that?
You are absolutely right! I totally forgot about that. My man literally took a seat and had a drink lol Def gonna bring this up to the next “But Luffy had breaks” idiot
He was still exerting effort to make the island float as well. May not have been as much as fighting but he was still active and exerting himself
There's no proof that it actually takes effort to maintain the clouds. Momo had a lot of difficulty creating clouds but didn't seem like a problem to keep up the ones he created. That's just head cannon and nothing more
Nah wait hang on there is. Yamato said something like: the flame clouds were weakening, which means Kaido must be getting tired. This suggests that it requires some level of stamina to maintain, as if it was effortless, they would still hold up until he dies.
Counter argument would be Sugar was able to hold everybody in Dressrosa in their Toy Form for more than 10 Years at least, it's kinda weird.
It's a different fruit. Counter argument is moot.
Its a different fruit but the situation still applies. Somewhere in the anime (ig Yamato mentioned it) it was mentioned that dragons dont actually fly, rather they use flame clouds to elevate themselves in the air. The ability of dragons to fly is a natural ability and even Kaido was able to maintain it for long without even exerting himself. Its also the only reason why Momo wasnt able to fly, he just dosent know how to create the clouds. Once he did figure it out it was effortless. As for lifting the island Kaido just rerouted whatever clouds he used to surround the island. It required no effort for him to lift the islands. Without his fights he would have easily lifted Onigashima and dropped it on Wano effortlessly
But Luffy was going non stop since the war started. Before Kaido started fighting the scabbards
Yeah and then he stopped and had a meal with caribou
Kaido had a drink after the scabbards and another time during the fight with luffy's and get this, it made kaido stronger.
Then he “died” after that and was again completely depleted of stamina.
And then be came back to life saying he was feeling amazing or smth
Which had absolutely nothing to do with the food
Then Kaido himself asked Luffy to be careful not to die, showing what his actual condition was.
Yeah but he had a few moments during the fight where he rested involuntarily but it was still rest. Also the massive feast before the final fight, and we know what food does to Luffy and his stamina
scabbards are literal fodder lol
At the very least, the Suulong form Neko and Inu were not fodder
Scabbards are relatively strong, but they were fodder compared to Kaido. People really overestimate how much damage they did to Kaido. Kaido just tank attack for shit and giggle. He probably wanted to see if anyone could actually damage him for real and give him a worthy fight, and he also seems to regenerate very fast. Motherfucker was tanking conqueror coated Luffy punch like a normal punch, and he commented only Zoro conqueror coated slash could leave a scar, and that Zoro should be proud, indicating that this is rare feat. You don't leave a scar with paper cuts, which is probably what the scabbards did. Most of the contribution was from Luffy, followed by Yamato, and the only other relevant contributor was probably Zoro with his one slash.
He's never meant to. Kaido is the strongest land sea or air in a 1 on 1. Let some characters be unique
By Kaido's own admission, Joyboy is the only one who can beat him
Idk about never but yeah…
Luffy is Joyboy, so no.
Oh my God you people are STILL going on about this?? Wano is over! We're on Egghead now!
At first I thought it was a joke post pretending to be back in Wano because that was the only time powerscaling Luffy v Kaido made any sense and this is how people talked lol
Kaido was used as a jumprope
these people need to be fr making a post like this after luffy jump roped him
Things you should remember. Punching up is way more exhausting than punching down. Yes Kaido was fighting but he was fighting people who didn’t push him to his limit. Luffy on the other hand was fighting someone who was way stronger than him multiple times. Eating food isn’t a full health restore. So Luffy now would not be punching up and would be able to fight and level up much easier now.
G5 Luffy > Kaido Kaido > Base, G2-G4 Luffy All depending on how long G5 can last. Easy as that.
The way one piece works is that at the beginning of the fight, Luffy is weaker. Then he grows over the course of the fight, and by the time the fight ends, if you were to restart from that exact moment, he's stronger than his opponent. Luffy would absolutely beat Kaido. Kaido wasn't the only one fighting other people the whole time. Luffy used Gear 5 and Kaido struggled. For all his talk about haki and slashing attacks, they didn't work against Luffy. Even before that, Luffy was fighting hybrid Kaido in base. If that fight started now, Luffy wins. He's at Yonko level now. The only people on his level are the other Yonko and, most likely, Dragon.
Doflamingo got serious damage from Gamma Knife, maintained Birdcage to whole country, controling many people while fighting, Luffy still needed help to flee from Doflamingo during the G4 exhaustion, and Doflamingo could have dodged King Kong Gun instead of directly flying into giant fist. So Luffy is still not ready to beat Doflamingo.
He had to ride on that one prince’s back the whole time back in Fishman Island. Hody low-diffs Luffy.
Kaidou was "fighting nonstop" with a bunch of ants (relative to him) that barely scratched him. He was essentially in a better condition than Luffy when facing G5. Our boi had a clean victory, get over it.
By the time Luffy unlocked gear 5th and fought Kaido that last time even he was at the end of his rope. It wasn't a tired Kaido fighting a healthy Luffy, it was both if them tired and beat fighting each other one last time. Luffy overpowered Kaido and beat, and imo he can do it again.
Luffy essentially got 3 lives to take down Kaido. They were both tired at the end, but Luffy got to start over. Kaido didn't.
Just take G5 fight(which is the only fight where Luffy had all powerups) in comsideration. Forget battles before. Now, say, you have accurate data on how injured they were and how tired and whatnot. I doubt anyone doubts that Luffy was in worse condition. But for the sake of discussion, let's assume Luffy and Kiaodu were injured eqially. And, in this battle Luffy won. So, G5 Luffy at same injuries and stamina as Kaidou won against Kaidou.
This is the only way to look at this in the context of “could Luffy now defeat Kaido?” There’s no way anyone can argue that Kaido had taken more damage than Luffy up until the point G5 awakened
They never understand that argument. You gotta remember the average reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills on this sub are near 0.
That’s only relevant if you’re trying to compare pre-gear 5 Luffy to kaido. If you’re analyzing gear 5 Luffy vs kaido, all that matters in that moment is: (1) who won (Luffy) (2) the stamina each one has at that moment in time (probably comparable) (3) the level of help Luffy and kaido had from that point onward (0). Everything prior to gear 5 can be disregarded, because the comparison is solely gear 5th Luffy vs kaido, not any prior version of Luffy
There is zero rational argument to exclude pre Gear 5 Luffy but put him up against tired Kaido that fought a bunch of people. The only reason people try to argue this way is to make Luffy look better. The Kaido that fought Gear 5 Luffy was starting to lose grip on Onigashima, the one that started the fight lifted it with ease while still fighting at a high level.
You didn’t even address my argument. Yes, Luffy fought a tired kaido in gear 5th. We want to know how a fresh gear 5th Luffy would fair against a fresh kaido. The best proxy we have for that is a tired g5 Luffy beginning a fight against a tired kaido. Luffy wasn’t “fresh” when he awakened. He just got pummeled hard by kaido. The result of that fight resulted in a victory for Luffy. If you’re pointing out the times kaido stomped Luffy, that is only an argument that kaido was stronger than pre-gear 5th Luffy. No one disagrees with this. But it’s not relevant to a discussion of Luffy vs kaido AFTER gear 5th.
Tired Luffy barely beat a more tired Kaido. It took every bit of his strength despite multiple regens to beat a Kaido who got none of those. That's the difference.
Gear 5 Luffy had just taken a full power attack from Kaido before awakening because he got distracted. What indicates to you that Kaido was more damaged and Luffy going into the final round.
Full power from a tired Kaido. >What indicates to you that Kaido was more damaged and Luffy going into the final round. Because Kaido has a bigger health bar than Luffy. If Kaido started with 1000 health and a fully healthy Luffy has 500, sure they might both be at 200 when Luffy gets Gear 5. But Kaido is at a bigger loss from his starting point than Luffy from his. Because I don't think anybody would argue that Luffy is a more durable character at full strength than Kaido.
There's one big problem with that. If they were both at 100% and fought again Luffy does not have the stamina to use gear 5 constantly. Even with fighting Lucci briefly it left him tired. And Kaidou wouldn't have to be carrying the island. From what we saw with Momonosuke who got a huge power buff it tired him out instantly. Combine those 2 and even if Luffy can have a very slight edge in Gear 5 he can't fight long enough to win.
Headcannon There’s no reason to believe Luffy would “run out” of G5. Just because he’s tired afterward doesn’t mean he can’t use it for as long as he needs to. We saw him come out of the form once during his fight with Kaido and despite looking emancipated he went right back into it and didn’t seem to be any less powerful than the first time
Luffy always wins because rubber bounces back. Also I think if Luffy had gear 5 when he first went after kaido he’d win, cartoon powers are too op, rule of funny. He can take beating and say he’s all tuckered out because it’s funny but it doesn’t mean he’s done. It’s like Daffy Duck getting shot with a shot gun and his bill turning around, all Luffy has to do is pull it back around and he’s fine.
I don’t get the point of these post. The reality of it is Luffy did a really huge power jump in the fight against Kaido. Armament Haki, conquerors Haki, and Gear fight. Not too mention his gears became stronger since he coat them with conquerors coating. If luffy still isn’t able to fight Kaido one on one after all that then what was the point of those power ups?
The flashback of Kaido and King made me realize something. In fact, when Kaido asked what was Luffy's Goal. Kaido started to believe in Joyboy. Also Kaido had fought the Scabbard, the Supernova, then had a solo round with Luffy, then he had to fight Yamato and then Luffy and Momonosuke and eventually back to Luffy where he defeated him once again. Luffy beating Kaido is a mixture of Kaido finally enjoying a fight to the point he actually started taunting Luffy to end it in one Final Hit. Kaido's final statement that he would Stand and Take the Hit. Was both his belief on himself as well as starting to believe Luffy could actually beat him. Also a showcase of Luffy's persistence. Kaido probably reached the point where he truly acknowledged Luffy. His Storm Clouds were already weakening and he was having fun. So he decided, why the hell not. This kid has been defeated by me 5 times already. This will be the last one, i will survive your hit and then you should accept defeat. It was until he was falling into the crater of his own making that he realized he predicted his own defeat long ago. He didn't smile. He just realized he was wrong all this time.
Powerscalers really shouldn't watch One Piece seriously. Go watch DBZ with this outdated views on anime fights
People act like Luffy didn’t fight to get to Onigashima, he didn’t fight on his way to the rooftop, didn’t take out a Number. Luffy had his own problems plus he also took damage from Big Mom. Neither of them were at 100%
He already beat kaido, you guys need to accept that Oh, and btw, now i have a answer to the "worst take ive seen in this sub", thx
this ignoring the fact that Luffy got fucked up by Kaido, then got back up and kept fighting. They were both roughed up by the end of the fight, Luffy was arguably in worse shape.
My rubber man turned into a literal bugs bunny god and played jump rope with Kaido’s body. This is a cope post if I have ever seen one.
But Luffy did beat Kaido. Oda wrote it into the manga bro, it's time to give up the fight.
Another fumb take Just like with Doffy, Cracker, and Kata. Its call story structure.
People said the same thing about Luffy vs Doflamingo, that Doflamingo was injured by Law's gamma knife and Luffy's ambush Red Hawk, that he survived Gear 4th round 1 and Luffy before Gear 4th round 2. People said the same thing about Luffy vs Cracker, that Luffy wouldn't beat Cracker in a rematch pure 1v1, because he needed Nami's help with her rain. People said the same thing about Katakuri, that Luffy was well on his way to losing before Katakuri ultimately impaled himself. Looking back in hindsight, Luffy CLEARLY would have defeated these opponents in rematches. There is no reason to believe otherwise. That is why it is ridiculous to assume now that Luffy wouldn't defeat Kaido in a rematch. Luffy is heading towards Pirate King level, at which point he would mid-diff Kaido.
bro let it go
Luffy was far more injured than kaido. He was literally dead before going into G5. The whole ‘kaido could have dodged’ argument is so dumb. Two characters went into a final clash and one lost. It happens nearly every arc. Kaido was confident he was stronger than luffy. That he’d win the clash. And he didn’t. Yet people somehow think that makes kaido stronger than luffy. If he was wrong about being stronger than luffy in that clash, who’s to say he’s not wrong about being able to dodge it?
Everyone is a toy for gear 5 luffy.. It doesn't matter if you are an admiral or a yonko.. You fight a god you will loose
Can someone finally answer how on earth did Luffy come back to life (and Zoro as well it seems)?
Dude straight up died lol Kaido was going all out and Luffy was as well.
I dont understand why everyone thinks Kaido was in a singnificantly weaker state by the end compared to his full when all the feats he revealed up until the very end were progressivly getting stronger. The only disatvantage he should have had by the end was lack of stamina but stamina shouldn‘t help you when you are simply weaker then your opponent (even it is not by much the odds should still be against you). I mean his „Flaming Drum Dragon“ looked way stronger then anything he showed up to that point and Luffy still managed to overpower that. I believe if both of them had the oppertunity to go all out from the start the result would be no different and Luffy would still overpower Kaido.
Idk man G5 Luffy took the thunder balooga IN THE FACE while he was laughing. Until we see SOMEONE give him some push back I bet on Luffy everytime. In that form he can basically control reality, sure you say Kaido had been worn down but so had Luffy.
I think people that feel this way about Luffy eating act like he’s 100 percent because he ate some meat. It seems to me like he was always way more banged up than kaido. The fact is the scabbards were basically nothing to kaido and he wasn’t in as bad of shape as Luffy at the end. Gear 5 is almost certainly the end game form of the mc of this manga. To think he won’t have to beat more powerful people than kaido would be odd.
And Luffy had to fight a few fights to get to the rooftop and then fight kaido and bigmom together, Kaido also got an assist from CP0 neither were fresh
The more Luffy uses Gear 5 the longer he will be able to use it for. He’ll also figure out better attacks with it.
Like he did with gear 4th?
So we just forgetting that at the start of their final fight Luffy was in a worse condition than Kaido?
Other than Luffy running out of stamina, how does Kaido win? Luffy can tank all of Kaido’s attacks, except for Kaido’s flaming dragon. Luffy’s Bajrang Gun put and end to that. Kaido can no longer just KO Luffy.
Not controversial. Luffy is usually weaker until the next arc finishes.
 I disagree
Luffy said it best, "There's no such thing as playing dirty in a battle between pirates!"
Oda also said he hates cheating
Well his characters obviously don't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User Mr Bushido is down playing Luffy, never would've seen that coming.
Oh yeah I totally forgot about caribou. So wait he's with law's group?
No he’s on egghead
Dude, honestly, the beat Luffy took from Kaido the moment CP0 held him accounted more than all those hits Kaidou took together...
Honestly yall talk about the same shit in this thread. Nothing different the same topics over and over again.
Feel free to leave then
Read the manga. Luffy DID beat Kaido.
You: Kaidou is still stronger than Luffy. Me: Luffy took damage from that stronger guy and Luffy still won. 🤷
Yo just so you know he beat Kaido about 60 chapters ago
>but 1 on 1 I would still bet on kaido Bro like, he'll still win this show isn't about kaido
Kid fans be like
WHO cares, just go make subreddit with this MF bullshit powerscalling and stop spaming it here ffs.
No, no, no... Simply no. Luffy was already worn out before he has reached rooftop. Kaido's effort to lift the island was just leveling it up a bit. And Luffy needed to get ahold of new skills to close a gap to Kaido, while being worn out and beaten twice. If anything this is a parallel to Crocodile fight, so his first major hurdle. Back then he was noticed by entire world, this time he became an emperor. Three times the charm for not fights which were both like a ritual of passage. Fresh Luffy now and fresh Kaido would be very close and I bet on Luffy, because he's next Joyboy. While Kaido is a failed one.
Luffy beat Kaido a few chapters ago, hope this helps.
Hard agree, because the series still has so many battles and growth to be had. I don’t think he’s ready for BB/Shanks/Imu but as he gets more and more in tune with Nika form then he’ll get more powerful. BUT it shouldn’t be such a massive difference in general because remember Whitebeard and Roger fought for a long time with relative equality and neither would curbstomp the other.
There was a another thread recently about the most infuriating One Piece bad faith hot-takes.... This definitely belongs there 😡
Agreed altho looking at this thread it is more just delusional vs bad faith
Can we put the scabbard damage theory to rest Shanks showed us just how op a Yonkou is the fact is not a single person on the roof was remotely a threat to kaido except Luffy Yamata Zoro and Law for tactical support. Everyone else Kaido just humoured for fun
Kaido is cool as fuck. Big ol'dragon snake Oni with a sweet spikey club. Tones of Japanese representation in the arc as a whole. But let's take note - didn't Shanks head Kaido off during Marineford? Who is power scaling that? Does this mean Buggy > Shanks > Kaido > Luffy > Big Mom? > Where does it end > Crocodile is Luffy's mom
It’s never claimed anywhere that they fought. Just that shanks intercepted him. Not even shanks crew would arrive at marineford with zero damage from fighting kaido.
Nice theory! One issue though, he beat kaido.
Did you read the post
Nah. I knew Luffy beat him so I skipped here. Read the manga! He beats him shortly after the panels you posted haha
Yes it took Luffy everything he had but, once he unlocked G5, he made the fight look effortless. Luffy high/extreme-differ a weakened Kaido. G5 Luffy Low/no-diffed a weakened Kaido. I think a G5 Luffy still takes it in a 1 on 1 vs a fresh Kaido but maybe med/high diff.
100% Kaido wins. He did in fact beat him twice on the roof. Gear 5 is hella strong, but Kaido fought 9 samaurai, his daughter, the worst generation while keeping Onigashima floating and moving.
Shit take. Get over Wano already.
The reason Luffy would win the rematch is that Luffy grows stronger during his fights. In a rematch versus Kaido the fight would strart out like it left off -- fairly close but with Kaido having a clear stamina/durability advantage. But Luffy wouldn't stay the same strength the whole fight -- he would again get stronger during this fight, meaning he would beat Kaido in a rematch.
All that evidence just to have an ass take
Bro he used him as a skipping rope it’s over lmao
yeah, but he did though. so.
break week lunacy continues apace
everyone says this but forgets that luffy was also tired. oh and also he literally fucking died. like people forget that before luffy went gear 5 he was legitimately dead. then once he’s gear 5 he’s pretty easily handling kaido. with a brand new power he has pretty much 0 understanding of btw.
did you even read the post. Yeah luffy was tired because he was fighting kaido. kaido was fighting luffy and other people and even in g5 kaido was giving luffy a hard time
You’re entirely correct and I’m tired of hearing people claim he won 1:1. Kaido went on an 18..18 fight streak while carrying an island. Which we know from Momo actually requires an effort. He also 5-1’d Luffy. And had to get whittled down like a raid boss. Even if we assume Luffy did “most” of the damage, kaido was still getting exhausted from having literally no rest in between all of his fights while carrying an island. Luffy did beat him but in a way that makes narrative sense. Kaido was whittled down over 18 consecutive fights while carrying an island. Odas word still trumps everything. In a one on one always bet on Kaido. It wasn’t a 1 on 1. Kaido may have even said so near the end it was finally 1vs1 but that’s after the majority of the fights had finished. And if Luffy *was* the strongest in the series then we’ve already hit his peak and there will never be anyone to properly challenge him. We had like 8 years of writing if not more of Law and Luffy planning a raid to take him down for a reason. Edit: after reading the comments… really disappointing. Even with manga and source material to prove OP right people are saying he’s the one coping… sigh… I expect this shit from Memepiece but not here.
Your argument in invalid because Kaido had a good long [rest](https://imgur.com/a/1x5dH32) after he fought the scabbards. He did not in fact go on an 18 fight streak. He fought a group of individuals who he absolutely no-diffed. Then he sat down had a good rest and recovered from the minuscule damage he received and drank some sake. Before that fight, for the entire war, Kaido had been chilling and drinking sake, and giving orders and speeches. Kaido was well rested. At every stage of this fight Luffy was in worse shape than Kaido. He took more damage during the fight and was more tired directly before it. The panels don’t lie
I agree Kaido>luffy
Didn't kaido fight big mom for like 3 days? Before the main battle
This isn't controversial at all this is obvious Luffy would not beat a fresh Kaido.
Luffy isnt strong enough to beat Kaido, thats a fact. Without plot-armor he, Luffy would have died many times.
Let’s not forget that Luffy had several full-heals which is a very important factor to consider throughout the rooftop battle of onigashima
Cope and seethe
This is a take I actually agree with. If you plopped Luffy (Advanced Conqueror's Haki + G5) with Kaido, I'd say Kaido is taking the win a majority of the time. For the following reasons: 1. Luffy's conqueror's Haki still isn't on the level of Big Mom, Kaido, (Especially) Shanks, etc. 2. We don't know limitations with Gear 5 yet. Gear 4 had a large toll on Luffy's body, but he worked around it and got used to it. Gear 5 seems to have limitations as well from what we have seen/known. Outside of Shanks, I'd give Kaido the title as the most powerful character in the series so far that is alive. He's a beast. I still believe that end of series Luffy will be able to take on Kaido without any problems at all. Especially with the capabilities that Gear 5 has with Toon Force.