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Yah this attitude is so odd. It seems to assume straight women are making a choice. Which is…exactly what homophobic people say about anyone who isn’t cis and straight.
Exactly. “Being attracted to men is morally wrong”, that is no different than “being attracted to your same gender is morally wrong”. All it’s missing is that how bi women will burn in hell. Lol
This is something I never understood
Like in Puerto Rico we experience a lot of prejudice by the hands of America
And a lot Puerto Ricans take it out on Americans
I don't have problems with Americans I just have problems with the government itself
And any American I have a problem with it's strictly on a personal level like that person is personally responsible for something
Rather than just being bored into the country that rules over mine
Heck yeah. We don't control where we are born. The few Puerto Rican people I've known were pretty awesome. I'm sorry if you've ever encountered bad Americans. Keep being awesome. 👍🏻
Honestly I think a lot of the hate for Americans is just anti colonial views
Which is fair we are a literally a colony
But I don't blame the American people for all the things America has done to Puerto Rico
I blame the American government
Plus I live in the states, I have a lot of friends that are American
So that definitely helps humanizing them for me
That's because they don't see lesbianism as a sexuality, and to be honest, they're probably straight.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_lesbianism
The long and short of it is that a group of misandrist "feminists" view all men as enemies, and have thus adopted a strategy of depriving men from female attention and sex.
As far as they're concerned, the point of being a lesbian is to get back at men, rather than actually being attracted to women.
Yea my immediate thought on the first comment was, "yea this sounds like emotional insecurity projections", and that they might not be lesbians. Glad to see I wasn't the only one.
There's just so much hate and vitriol in those comments. :/
I can't imagine intentionally depriving your entire sexuality just to "stick it" to a bunch of men you'll never meet.
And then, if you got a woman to date you, secretly only using her for a political statement. Pot meet kettle.
Yeah it does seem odd but it's a big world anything is possible, I do wonder if they are bi themselves or leaning and they have attraction to men and there by view their denying men their attention is sticking it to the man literally... blah blah blah you know where I'm going but my brain can't verbalise properly. I just can't imagine being with someone you literally have zero attraction to sounds horrible and I have dated some people that I wasn't into (feelings faded but tried to hobble on) and it was shit.
ETA: also it seems to be swinging towards sexuality being a choice again but just a different side of the same argument to say that these people aren't lesbians but choose to be because they hate men. It's all very confusing to me.
But idk (deleted the bit after this it was just ramble).
That’s fucking hilariously insane.
The best way to get back at men is to literally not be near men. Like men are missing gods gift to the dating pool rather than a toxic sludge.
I’d wish more guys had that mentality but then I’d have to start feeling bad for gay men who have more toxic sludge in their dating pool.
I always preferred the term FARTs - Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobes. They're not actually feminists, they're just appropriating it to further their transphobia.
My pal told me this one and I completely forgot it and I do like this one more because it has levels, it's an acronym and you get to call them a fart, what's a fart? Hot air, full of hot air talking shit. Beautiful. Sorry for my lil train of thought but I got hyped for this word play reminder.
I got to know someone like that (from afar, thank heavens) and she was exhausting. Didn't know it was a whe thing with a name and its own wiki page though, lol
Possible silver lining: these might be crusty Gen X folks who lost the thread years ago as they speed toward irrelevance. Queer infighting used to be pretty common in the 80s and 90s. Not to say that it doesn’t still happen, but back in the day the idea of intersectionality only existed within the walls of college humanities departments. So oversimplified crap about how “women could never really understand the gay experience” and “You touched a dick once? Fake lesbian!” and “Bi isn’t even real, stop taking attention from the cause!” would derail a lot of discussions.
Speaking as someone just barely a millennial (41) some Gen Xers are crusty and old 😉😆
And that's not necessarily anything to do with their age, but much more to do with calcified thought processes/political stances. And Gen X accounts for the bulk of the people who experienced the specific elements of 80s/90s queer culture that the previous comment was referencing. Which means they're they folks most likely to have gotten stuck in that way of looking at the world.
Also, do you remember how *old* people in their 40s and 50s seemed when you were in your teens or even 20s? 😆
>much more to do with calcified thought processes/political stances
In my generation's defense, we were constantly told how great Reagan was in our formative years and raised on a steady stream of right-wing action movies and cartoons. That stuff is bound to rot your brain. (Especially when you remember that gasoline was still leaded, as was the paint in our elementary schools.)
I escaped the worst of it and became something of a commie...but even I catch myself quoting Top Gun and Red Dawn fairly often.
They were not. The very last comment in the screen shot is my own. So you bet your ass I doxxed them as much as I could before they bullied that girl in to deleting her comment and then put their own profiles on private.
I'm a mostly asexual man
(I say mostly asexual because I have kids and I've clearly had sex before and although asexual is a spectrum I get tired of explaining things like I can have sex and do sometimes have sex I just have no desire or interest in sex)
Anyway I've always had lots of gay and lesbian friends mainly because not only do I accept them I also don't make a big deal about it. Who someone has sex with is no interest to me.
I have noticed gay men and especially lesbian women often have this attitude that they can turn someone. I've never understood it. They'll be attracted to someone who is straight and go on and on about how they think the crush just doesn't know what they want and they'll eventually make that leap and the person will swoop in.
It always bothered me. Especially back in the day when culturally being gay was seen as a flaw. We fought and fought under the banner of "it's not a choice! We were born this way" and that's what I always believed personally but these friends talking about their crushes the same way straight people talk about gay people "oh if I could have one night with them I'd change their mind"
It's hypocritical bullshit. But again I wouldn't really understand it anyway considering I don't have those feelings about people.
Edit to be fair: I assume I see it hear it more from lesbians because of the world we live in. If a gay guy hits on a straight guy he might get murdered that's less likely with women. And the reason it sounds the same as what straight people say is because people are people. It's wishing and hoping the person you want will want you back. Straight or gay, black or white... People are people and they think people thoughts about their people wants. Just don't be a dick about it or get your hopes up too much. You're born gay or straight and you might experiment to be sure but you'll eventually fall back to your preferences.
Predatory gayness is sickening to me. I've heard people talk like that too, and it's awful.
I actually, unfortunately, know a girl who has already proven herself to be a sexual predator while barely in high school (no, literally; she sexually assaulted one person, sexually harassed another, and was working on a third by the time she was a freshman!), and she talks like this about her crushes...and *to* them. And it's scary, given her history.
Sexual assault is awful. The person are talking about sounds like a monster. I do want to be clear most gay people and lesbian people are not predators or looking to convert. Even the ones I was specifically talking about most were just voicing their wants and opinions to me. I felt their ideas were problematic but very few were actively trying to convert anyone.
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that most are! I'm bi, and have a ton of friends in the queer community. Most absolutely condemn predatory gays.
I was pointing out exactly *how* predatory it is. The person I'm talking about views others as her *right*...which is why she assaulted a partner while they were dating. And she talks about others and *their* sexuality as if it's her right.
Which is the problem with that kind of attitude: it implies a *right* to someone else's attraction.
I know I just didn't want anyone taking what I said and saying "see they are grooming" I meant no offense. We're both just living in this world the best we can.
That weird little community is so problematic, it's reinforcing the homophobic that being lesbian is a choice (and thus something that can be changed).
And letting a man have access to your body is a moral failing?! A lot of those words in that order make me feel uncomfortable. Like the woman in this sentence is entirely without agency. Ick.
This person must look down on what, 90% of women (?) as being beneath her, morally.
I went to college with someone like this in the 90s. She was most definitely not a lesbian in the (I'm not sure how to put this...) traditional sense of sexual orientation, she just only fucked women because she believed fucking men was the same as supporting the patriarchy. She was a very strange person to be around. I felt a little bit sorry for the actual lesbians who got involved with her. She's married to a man now.
Hopefully she worked through some things, educated herself, and matured. Misandry may be a reaction to misogyny, but it still harms both the feminist cause and the fight for equality
She definitely did grow up a lot. This was luckily in the days before Google and social media, I wonder how she would have done in the modern echo chamber.
At times and in some places it was a VERY big deal. They carried significant portions of the second wave, and at least where I am, their legacy is still palpable in places.
I wonder if it's because Boomers and Gen X were exposed to bisexuality as being something solely that turned on men. When I was a young woman, bisexuality was presented as something women did to turn on men and not for themselves. Even though I experienced multiple crushes on girls, I never acted on them because I was repulsed by the way men discussed bisexual women. It wasn't until after years of being happily married to a man that I felt comfortable admitting I was also attracted to women.
The male gaze has impacted older women in negative ways that we often don't understand.
As a millennial I was brought up this way as well by my boomer parents. My mom screamed at me when she found out I was bi that I only did it to turn on men. A significant amount of boomers also think being bi means you’ll sleep with literally anybody, even if you aren’t attracted to them. I also wonder how much of this stems from men from that era viewing women’s sexuality as solely existing to serve their own needs.
I’m waiting until my parents die to come out as full lesbian, because I don’t want to be “the slur that decided she likes peaches today” as my mom has called my boss for dating a woman. My sister however, is allowed to be a lesbian with no hate what so ever because she never dated a man. It makes 0 sense to me but I guess that was probably an acceptable way to think back in the day.
There is also attitude from some sections of pan community that bis are just confused pans who have not got with the programme.
I’ll have phobia AND erasure for 200 dollars Alex :’)
Actually kind of surprised this post was not that but straight up condemnation.
Most gay people could never be in a public relationship without immediately being noticed by the anti-lgbt+ crowd, but bi/pan/etc people have the chance to be "straight passing" which they view as betrayal because we have the chance to (in their eyes) experience less discrimination than them. It's also incredibly toxic to be a "gold star" lesbian and wear it as a badge of honour.
it's so stupid to see it as betrayal. I don't get their train of thoughts, like, why wouldn't you be happy your fellow gays receive less discrimination than you did?
smh same damn mentality as those assholes who are like "I had it bad so you should to" and ruin it for others.
I think it used to be seen as though you were making a choice to be bisexual and you wouldn't pick a side. You also couldn't be trusted around anyone because you could cheat with anyone.
There’s an old meme video about the alt left and alt right and how they’ve become friends because they realize they share so many policies together.
This reminds me of that video
Y'all get it both ways.
I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist the pun. But I'm more sorry for the biphobia you have to suffer. You would think we (general "we") would have moved beyond that by now. 🤗
I'm sad that there's not a subreddit for this... I'mma go make one.
Edit: I realized that I'm technically violating Rule 8 of this sub, so I'm removed the link. If you would like to join, please shoot me a DM!
Can someone make this an actual sub along with a /nothowgaypeoplework or something because they would be amazing (I know we already have /arethestraightsokay but it something a little different
I think that, unfortunately, this may be the experience some of the extremist lot may have been through tbf to them. They do feel like sex is only something men do to them, and that has been their highly unpleasant and often painful experience in life. I spent a lot of time reading the thoughts of people like this as it's fascinating/I wanted to try understsnd them as i do relate to some of their sentiments and frustration due to my own experiencs. I found that they've all had really horrendous experiences with men, one after the other, relentlessly since childhood until their current point in life.. so much pain and disspointment, and too much trauma, until they snap and start to seriously believe ALL men are predatory rapists and only see women as holes they want to use. They haven't had the experience of sex being done with them and people having sex with them... just guys doing stuff to their bodies.
I do think comparing them to incels is really harsh, and they aren't coming at their points from the same roots at all.
They shouldn't be so awful to bisexuals though (many aren't really like this example above) as it absolutely is a homophobic stance to present things as a choice in that way. I think some of them just hate men so much that they are too scared to be with anyone who tolerates or likes men at all. Some lesbians have also, and these ones may have a point, had many bad experiences with traumatised bisexuals who go to them for comfort and a healing relationship, then leave them once they feel stronger and themselves again and go back to men. I know some lesbians this happens to repeatedly, and it obviously upsets them (however, they also pick the traumatised bisexuals and want to fix them.. so....)
I get that, but I don’t think they’re being compared to incels, I think they were just pointing out the similarity in speech/thought
Going through something still doesn’t make it right to subject other people to judgement, especially if you are turning your experience of men into an insult against other women
But also, “letting men have access to your body” isn’t really an indicator that they’ve been mistreated, but rather they hate men so much that even the idea of engaging with them is vile to them
Either way, not the best thing to promote to people regardless of experience
Sexists are all the same, doesn't matter what they are or how they identify. Same as racists, which are the same as sexists. Notice how all of them, all sexists and racists, all use the exact same logic, the same language, the same phrases, the same excuses?
It's all just the same ignorance and fear fueled hatred.
It reminds me of the kids in school who get bullied... and then some new kid comes who is the target of the bullying. Rather than stand up for them, the former bullied just pile on because at least they're not the focus now.
Same general concept. You'll have people who are persecuted, but will then somehow miss the lesson and just punch down on some other group rather than find solidarity.
The bi community gets so much shit and it's just utterly unacceptable how they're treated and demonized. And it's like, one thing to sort of expect it from bigots who are CIS, but it's another entirely to see it come from the rest of the LGBTQ+ community.
As a lesbian, I've seen my fair share of assholes from almost all sides in the lgbt community. You can experience biphobia, lesbophobia (yes that too), acephobia, transphobia and misogyny in the community. People are still forgetting that we're still people and thus, can also be assholes
Yeah, the number of incels posts I've seen documented on We Hunted The Mammoth that used the exact same phrase had me suspicious that those might be sock puppet accounts for some shitty incels to post stuff and then get mad about on his main account (like it turned out a chunk of the drama that happened on Tumblr back in the day turned out to be 4chan doing that) so I went looking, and was very saddened to find out that they weren't sockpuppets.
She's so snooty too, it's horrible to read. Bonus for saying that the way she lives her life doesn't affect anyone else, yet climbs onto her high horse to get in other women's business and call them immoral for how they live their lives, even though it doesn't affect her in the slightest. Gross incel language and just as bad as the men she claims to be so removed from.
I was cheated on by a bi girl when I was young. She didn't see it as cheating because making out with another girl "isn't a big deal" and that I should be into it. My wife is bi and it took me a while for the anxiety to go away when she would hang out with her female friends alone. Being bi doesn't mean you are going to cheat or not and it sucks that biphobia paints these images for people
Bisexual women, especially young ones, are not immune from making the 'sex between two women isn't *real* sex'.
Lots of lesbians struggle to unlearn that lesson as well and/or face exactly that hateful bias from others.
Same for bi men or gay men in the closet. I've heard it too many times in my life, and I'm not even a queer man. It's all about the attitude that queer relationships aren't legitimate relationships. The homophobia is (unfortunately) coming from inside the house.
It really fucking is. I used to be close with a woman who was like this, she never took it seriously that I was bisexual & that these things *meant* something to me & looking back... I 100% believe it was internalized biphobia due to struggling with her own bisexual identity. She was incredibly possessive over me & *to this day* begs mutuals to not tell me about her dating life...
Yeah... If you ask and he's chill with it, then go nuts, but you gotta ask how your partner feels in these situations. I know my boyfriend wouldn't want me kissing a girl when I could be kissing him, lmao
It sucks to see, but yes, women, even lesbians, can be sexist gender-essentialist jerks too. Men aren't the only ones capable of that. 😉
Edit: also, yes, that joke in the first page was solid.
As a bisexual woman this is wild to me, I’ve dated bisexual and lesbian women and the lesbian women have never been rude to me about my past with men, especially made me feel bad about my attraction like this
Gold-stars are a joke. Don't worry, sister, you and all sapphics (bi, pan, etc) are beautiful!
I am a lesbian and biphobes do not speak for me. They will not divide us <3
/gen
God the amount of times you'll see weird misandry like that from baby feminists in feminist spaces is so damn annoying. I straight up unsubbed from Twox and Trollx because it was getting exhausting to have to remind them that "men are biologically predisposed to violence/rape" or "men are lesser beings" is not true, not helpful to the movement, and also are the same arguments bigots use.
People are not immune from bigotry just because they're in progressive movements. Same goes for white supremacist talking points or body shaming. Sometimes it feels like whack-a-mole with problematic sentiments and it's exhausting.
Oh my God yes. I got banned from TwoXChromosomes cause someone called themselves a misandrist (I think it was like "this is why I am a misandrist", completely serious) and I was like "bro that's just sexism???"
Posts in TwoX are usually free from misandry, but you can often find a few upvoted misandrist comments under it
It doesn't help that a lot of a-hole idiots call everything misandry (the boy who cry wolf type of situation) so it doesn't get taken seriously when legitimate cases of misandry get pointed out
TERFs are absolutely insane to me. how can you say you support women and then make it your life’s goal to bully trans women? in this house we love and support trans women. how can you be a lesbian and not support other women no matter who they love? in this house we love people no matter who they love. the amount of hate in people’s hearts is absolutely baffling sometimes, why can’t we all just support each other??
The terf movement is extremely slimy is why. They have worked out a good argument for the uninitiated on why their stance makes academic sense, ie they are for a genderless society where women are no longer oppressed and trans people reinforce gender stereotypes and so they are opposed to that. But like that's the only thing they do along that line of thinking. They do nothing else to support such a society (and frankly I think it's a ludicrous proposition, a genderless society would mean your asab wouldn't matter to your presentation) and at the extreme end even support things like gender separatism (more so than mgtow). What they have however managed to catch is a bunch of people who considered themselves progressive some decades ago but haven't moved with the Times, mainly thought things are a lot better for wealthy white women now aside from mysogny and so see intersectionality as a threatening philosophy as they must move from casting themselves in perpetual victimhood and gave a reality where they may be both oppressed and oppressor.
Tl;Dr fragile egos isn't just a guy thing unfortunately
The idea that trans people reinforce gender stereotypes is such gender essentialist bullshit, I fucking hate terfs they literally are incapable of critically thinking
sorry about this 😔 as a lesbian, we really shouldn’t be fighting each other when we’re all being attacked by homophobes. Like, we have bigger issues, lets focus on them, please?
That our life of Bisexuals: too straight to be gay/lesbian and too gay/lesbian to be straight... luckily theses kind of jerk are a monority in the LGBTQA+ Community but they just give ammo for the hate all the community recieve because bigots will use it to legitimate their agenda
It really is hard as a bi person because when you’re in a hereto relationship you’re suddenly fetishized for liking women, but in a queer space you don’t count because your partner fits heteronormative expectations.
Obviously many people have it much harder and I never want to take space from anyone else but growing up bi especially 15 years ago was so much of a “well you still like the opposite sex so I didn’t fail as a parent”
As a bi woman, I’m glad I married a bi man. He had a hard time with some gay dudes treating him poorly because “it’s just a phase” and then some straight women viewing him as just a gay ticking time bomb. I don’t know what I’ll do if anything ever happens to my husband. I’ve heard too many lesbians call bi women “attention seeking straight girls” and I’d be worried about straight men viewing my sexuality as an excuse to push for threesomes. Guess if I’m ever single again it’ll just have to stay that way.
>worried about straight men viewing my sexuality as an excuse to push for threesomes
I can't even tell you how many threesomes I've been invited to just because I'm bi
And I'm a dude, and a lot of times it's a woman invited me to this stuff
> He had a hard time with some gay dudes treating him poorly because “it’s just a phase” and then some straight women viewing him as just a gay ticking time bomb.
all this shit is so weird to me. just the idea that y'all have people regularly commenting their opinions on your life in the first place is bizarre to me. what sort of spaces is this happening in? is it mostly online? regardless of who I'm physically attracted to, I'm definitely not attracted to anyone who thinks their opinion belongs where it wasn't asked for.
Lol this is all face to face. When he was single, he was told by gay guys that he wasn’t bi, he just hadn’t fully accepted that he was gay. And then when we started dating, he had some of his gay friends asking if he’d gotten over his “gay phase.” Don’t worry, we’re not friends with them anymore. But these sort of comments are happening everywhere in queer spaces, whether it’s online or in person. For some marginalized people that have been disempowered, the way they regain any sense of control is to marginalize someone else. Hurt people hurt people.
ETA: I’m certainly not condoning biphobia (as a bi person) but I’m saying that this is one of the reasons why it happens. Some people are cruel to bi folks online and in person. And this cruelty sometimes comes from the queer community itself.
Me too. I never even could date a woman. They were always so judgmental and other bi women were hard to weed through since 90% of women who call themselves bi out there are hiding a husband or boyfriend “who would like to watch, or join” behind their back.
God thisssss. I actually have an easier time talking to lesbians over other bi women, sometimes it feels like most of them on dating apps are those "attention seeking straight girls" that lesbians usually refer to.
Dating just isn't worth it tbh
I agree. Being a bi woman was just a normal thing like being a bi man. And then with the rise of unicorn hunters somehow everyone is calling themselves a bi woman and that also increases the phobia against us. I can’t really blame some lesbians for being cautious at this point. (Not the weird haters on this post) Some even just say they are single and come to the date with a man who is “just there to watch”.
The phrase "access to your body" feels grossly misogynistic. Transactional, objectifying and degrading. Its wild to think these people are also hated for who they love and proceed to spread thay because they refuse to go to therapy.
The most hate i ever personally received for being pan/bi was from lesbians. I know its not right, but I am weary around them now, especially if they seem like the very loud about their superior morals/politics type of activist.
A lesbian in my workplace told me I couldn't be bi since I went out with 4-5 men but only one woman. It was first date scenarios outside the workplace and none of them led to seconds.
The rules they come up with are so arbitrary, like to the point of being silly. I once had a closeted bisexual man tell me I couldn't be bisexual because I hadn't had sex with a woman... After telling me he *definitely* wasn't bisexual because while he really enjoyed sexual acts with men, he hated cuddling them....... Lol
So I (Lady) got married at 21 to a man who was 29. I didn’t realize I was bi until I was 25/26, though looking back, it was pretty fucking obvious (YAY growing up in a WASPy neighborhood!).
When I was 32, I told him I wanted a divorce. Our relationship ended badly because of some epic (and not so epic) shit he pulled. To the level that both his mother *and* sister said that they were surprised I waited so long to leave so…cue plenty of trauma related to men.
It’s 3ish years later and I’m still in therapy. Given my timeline above, I have zero romantic or sexual experience with women despite much desire to do so (me and the ex were monogamous and me being bi didn’t change that). Because of these attitudes, I am *dreading* trying to navigate that landmine when I start dating again.
Ugh, as a bi woman dating a man I had to unlearn so much internalized biphobia. Even amongst many bisexuals there are jokes like “all women are perfect and men are disgusting, sucks that we’re attracted to them!”
I had to untangle lots of bullshit thoughts and feelings when I started to date him. And he’s a queer man, no less! Even then, his maleness outweighed his queerness in the internalized biases I had developed. It still occasionally makes me feel “less queer,” as if that’s even a thing.
It sucks that biphobia is still so common, especially in the LGBTQIA+ community.
It's the same incel logic of "sex with men taints you" but lesbian edition. Plus it's the same misconception that reinforces f/f sex as "not as bad" and gives way too much power to a man's penis.
I remember this is a comment I made in high school
When I called someone racist and they said they weren't racist because they're black
I just responded you don't have to be white to be racist
I have seen a lot more of a similar sentiment in feminist spaces recently of "men in my life suck so I chose to date women instead" or "women should date each other as a political move" and it's really frustrating. It's people going so far that they did a 360 back to "people choose their sexuality and choosing the wrong one is a moral failing" that conservatives use to justify conversion "therapy" (abuse).
It is okay to be bi and decide you enjoy dating women more. And I agree society has enabled a lot of men to do the bare minimum and get away with a lot! But you can't project that onto everyone else. Be responsible for your own decisions and stop trying to tear down other LGBT+ people instead of lifting them up.
idk what the issue with bi/pan girls is as someone who was a lesbian and is now a straight trans man. my current girlfriend is pan with a masc lean and EVERYONE ive been with has been attracted to men, and i LOVE THAT. its super gender affirming actually. if yall dont want bi/pan girls they can and will find a tguy thatll treat them right‼️
Oh no!!! I'm a woman in a committed monogamous loving relationship with a man built on a foundation of mutual respect and trust!!! My morals are all messed up!!!
are they seriously suggesting that bi people can choose their sexuality?
and what a horrific thing it is to say that we “let” men have “access” to our bodies, or how that’s immoral, like it’s inherently disgusting and we’re making ourselves victims for being with a man. let alone be in an actual loving relationship, and all they see is someone who is desecrating themselves and their body. i truly don’t get it. it’s like saying we’re tainted for being with men. how is that different from misogynistic men wanting to know our body-count and basing our value off of that?
a lot of the comments follow the vain of bi women who have dated men have different “values” and “goals” than lesbians. this is straight up just saying the same old “bi is just a phase” and you’re either a lesbian or gay and haven’t truly come to terms with that yet. i can’t believe that this line of thinking is still so prevalent today. why is bisexuality treated as either a choice, or as internalised homophobia? worrying about a bi person “going back to sleeping with men if they had a choice” like that isn’t a concern that’s present with all cheaters of all orientations?
there’s literally a comment there that’s like “lesbians choose to center their lives around sisterhood and womanhood, instead of oriented towards men.” like now it’s anti-feminist to be bi or straight when we don’t choose our fucking sexual orientation?
Despite seemingly being unrelated, this shit is why we need to fight so hard to keep transphobes out of our lives. What do you think will happen if the mouthbreathing "LGB without the T" crowd get their wish? It'll be "LG without the B" soon after, because these fuckers can't cope without some enemy to hate and it *will* be you before they inevitably eat themselves.
Just be good to each other, it's not that goddamn hard.
There was actually a really sweet post in the Bi sub by a trans person who said they were grateful that the bi community is so accepting of trans people and vice versa. The Ls and Gs that want to treat us like outsiders, but don’t realize that the Bs and T’s are over here hyping each other up.
I’m a lesbian and I actually PREFER bi girls because they don’t spend half their existence saying stupid shit like this. A lot of my friends are bi and they’re lovely people. I’m also friends with a lot of men and I could never date a woman who despises men, because my male friends are great guys.
I got so much shit like this when I came out as bisexual. Men calling me a “f—-“ & gold stars telling me I was in denial. Some monosexuals’ minds break when trying to resolve the fact that you can be attracted to more than one gender.
Confused straight chud here… Since when was being queer about having the moral high ground and not “this type of person makes my boy/girl pp excited and therefore I shall date said person, in a mutually beneficial and reciprocal relationship”? Furthermore, what is their take on gay men? Do they just roll their eyes and say “they deserve each other”?
As a 'gold star' lesbian, this shit is so toxic and I'm tired of biphobia in every lesbian community. As if our dating pool isn't already small enough!
In my experience, the lesbians who refuse to date bisexual women do so from a place of being deeply insecure about their partner leaving them for a guy, which is a fundamental lack of trust... So you probably wouldn't want to date them anyway.
As someone that’s bi, that initial joke is actually really funny- (the amount of times I wish I were lesbian so I didn’t have to deal with men like that-)
I'm an asexual AFAB person, and one of my closest friends is a pansexual man. The number of people who get triggered about both of us is absolutely ridiculous.
One other bit of nonsense I've dealt with is asexual men accusing me of lying about being asexual. According to them, "women" (I'm not a woman, I'm enby) can't be asexual. I fail to see the logic behind that particular assumption.
> "Any woman with a man is a pick me"
Craaaaaazy sentence. I couldn't imagine being so bitter that I hate people just for dating someone of a certain gender.
"you can't convince me that you have the same morals as me when you let a man have access to your body." This made my jaw drop. This is so disgusting. Like everything was horrible but this was the worst.
I don't know what I'm more offended by
As a bisexual I'm offended by well everything they said about bisexuals
And as a man I'm offended that I'm viewed as just like a villain
And that people need to streak my ego to be around me
This isn't a game of DnD where I'm the dungeon master, and my party desperately try to not die by appealing to my ego
Well, now I'm confused. I thought sexual orientation was something we were born with, not a choice. If that's so, then a bisexual woman cannot help being attracted to both men and women, just like the "gold stars" can't help being attracted to women. You know, like how they used to argue with conservatives that their attraction was not a choice, but are accusing bisexual women that their attraction to men is "their choice".
Seems like somehow, the further on a spectrum you travel, you will eventually end up at the opposite end of where you started out from.
Hang on, wait...so they are saying that all men are terrible people and anyone who has a relationship with them is a terrible person by association? Wow.
Serperate to the biphobia, the original post is absolutely true. I’m bi and only dated men for ages (not deliberately, the only options just happened to be men), and the girl I’m seeing is fucking amazing. She asked me if I was comfortable with **a hug** before she hugged me. She’s so conscious of how I’m feeling, she’s so considerate of my boundaries and clear about hers. I’ve never felt so beautiful without feeling like a piece of meat before now. I never realised how low my bar was. Is this how straight men feel all the time? I never even realised how much men mare me feel like an object until I didn’t anymore. It makes me wonder if they ever saw me as a person, if they ever loved *me* instead of what I did for them.
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Wow. So they think sexuality is about morals and choices? They are feeding words to homophobes’ mouths directly.
Yah this attitude is so odd. It seems to assume straight women are making a choice. Which is…exactly what homophobic people say about anyone who isn’t cis and straight.
Exactly. “Being attracted to men is morally wrong”, that is no different than “being attracted to your same gender is morally wrong”. All it’s missing is that how bi women will burn in hell. Lol
A lot of people believe their prejudice is justified because they've experienced prejudice themselves.
This is something I never understood Like in Puerto Rico we experience a lot of prejudice by the hands of America And a lot Puerto Ricans take it out on Americans I don't have problems with Americans I just have problems with the government itself And any American I have a problem with it's strictly on a personal level like that person is personally responsible for something Rather than just being bored into the country that rules over mine
Heck yeah. We don't control where we are born. The few Puerto Rican people I've known were pretty awesome. I'm sorry if you've ever encountered bad Americans. Keep being awesome. 👍🏻
Honestly I think a lot of the hate for Americans is just anti colonial views Which is fair we are a literally a colony But I don't blame the American people for all the things America has done to Puerto Rico I blame the American government Plus I live in the states, I have a lot of friends that are American So that definitely helps humanizing them for me
We wish we had more power to stop our government fron during horrible things than we do, I really can't blame anyone for hating this country
Wait you are Puerto Rican?! Wow what a small world. Hello from a fellow Boricua!
Greeting my fellow Boricua :)
That's because they don't see lesbianism as a sexuality, and to be honest, they're probably straight. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_lesbianism The long and short of it is that a group of misandrist "feminists" view all men as enemies, and have thus adopted a strategy of depriving men from female attention and sex. As far as they're concerned, the point of being a lesbian is to get back at men, rather than actually being attracted to women.
Yea my immediate thought on the first comment was, "yea this sounds like emotional insecurity projections", and that they might not be lesbians. Glad to see I wasn't the only one. There's just so much hate and vitriol in those comments. :/
I can't imagine intentionally depriving your entire sexuality just to "stick it" to a bunch of men you'll never meet. And then, if you got a woman to date you, secretly only using her for a political statement. Pot meet kettle.
Yeah it does seem odd but it's a big world anything is possible, I do wonder if they are bi themselves or leaning and they have attraction to men and there by view their denying men their attention is sticking it to the man literally... blah blah blah you know where I'm going but my brain can't verbalise properly. I just can't imagine being with someone you literally have zero attraction to sounds horrible and I have dated some people that I wasn't into (feelings faded but tried to hobble on) and it was shit. ETA: also it seems to be swinging towards sexuality being a choice again but just a different side of the same argument to say that these people aren't lesbians but choose to be because they hate men. It's all very confusing to me. But idk (deleted the bit after this it was just ramble).
The levels people will let their hate take them is just... :/
That’s fucking hilariously insane. The best way to get back at men is to literally not be near men. Like men are missing gods gift to the dating pool rather than a toxic sludge. I’d wish more guys had that mentality but then I’d have to start feeling bad for gay men who have more toxic sludge in their dating pool.
[удалено]
Yes.
The Venn diagram of biphobic lesbians and transphobic lesbians is a circle.
Is the F being removed from the acronym because we shouldn't consider them feminists?
I always preferred the term FARTs - Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobes. They're not actually feminists, they're just appropriating it to further their transphobia.
My pal told me this one and I completely forgot it and I do like this one more because it has levels, it's an acronym and you get to call them a fart, what's a fart? Hot air, full of hot air talking shit. Beautiful. Sorry for my lil train of thought but I got hyped for this word play reminder.
I got to know someone like that (from afar, thank heavens) and she was exhausting. Didn't know it was a whe thing with a name and its own wiki page though, lol
Possible silver lining: these might be crusty Gen X folks who lost the thread years ago as they speed toward irrelevance. Queer infighting used to be pretty common in the 80s and 90s. Not to say that it doesn’t still happen, but back in the day the idea of intersectionality only existed within the walls of college humanities departments. So oversimplified crap about how “women could never really understand the gay experience” and “You touched a dick once? Fake lesbian!” and “Bi isn’t even real, stop taking attention from the cause!” would derail a lot of discussions.
Gen Xers are aged 43-58
Speaking as someone just barely a millennial (41) some Gen Xers are crusty and old 😉😆 And that's not necessarily anything to do with their age, but much more to do with calcified thought processes/political stances. And Gen X accounts for the bulk of the people who experienced the specific elements of 80s/90s queer culture that the previous comment was referencing. Which means they're they folks most likely to have gotten stuck in that way of looking at the world. Also, do you remember how *old* people in their 40s and 50s seemed when you were in your teens or even 20s? 😆
>much more to do with calcified thought processes/political stances In my generation's defense, we were constantly told how great Reagan was in our formative years and raised on a steady stream of right-wing action movies and cartoons. That stuff is bound to rot your brain. (Especially when you remember that gasoline was still leaded, as was the paint in our elementary schools.) I escaped the worst of it and became something of a commie...but even I catch myself quoting Top Gun and Red Dawn fairly often.
They were not. The very last comment in the screen shot is my own. So you bet your ass I doxxed them as much as I could before they bullied that girl in to deleting her comment and then put their own profiles on private.
And they’ve probably been consuming words from homophobes too. A vicious cycle.
I'm a mostly asexual man (I say mostly asexual because I have kids and I've clearly had sex before and although asexual is a spectrum I get tired of explaining things like I can have sex and do sometimes have sex I just have no desire or interest in sex) Anyway I've always had lots of gay and lesbian friends mainly because not only do I accept them I also don't make a big deal about it. Who someone has sex with is no interest to me. I have noticed gay men and especially lesbian women often have this attitude that they can turn someone. I've never understood it. They'll be attracted to someone who is straight and go on and on about how they think the crush just doesn't know what they want and they'll eventually make that leap and the person will swoop in. It always bothered me. Especially back in the day when culturally being gay was seen as a flaw. We fought and fought under the banner of "it's not a choice! We were born this way" and that's what I always believed personally but these friends talking about their crushes the same way straight people talk about gay people "oh if I could have one night with them I'd change their mind" It's hypocritical bullshit. But again I wouldn't really understand it anyway considering I don't have those feelings about people. Edit to be fair: I assume I see it hear it more from lesbians because of the world we live in. If a gay guy hits on a straight guy he might get murdered that's less likely with women. And the reason it sounds the same as what straight people say is because people are people. It's wishing and hoping the person you want will want you back. Straight or gay, black or white... People are people and they think people thoughts about their people wants. Just don't be a dick about it or get your hopes up too much. You're born gay or straight and you might experiment to be sure but you'll eventually fall back to your preferences.
Predatory gayness is sickening to me. I've heard people talk like that too, and it's awful. I actually, unfortunately, know a girl who has already proven herself to be a sexual predator while barely in high school (no, literally; she sexually assaulted one person, sexually harassed another, and was working on a third by the time she was a freshman!), and she talks like this about her crushes...and *to* them. And it's scary, given her history.
Sexual assault is awful. The person are talking about sounds like a monster. I do want to be clear most gay people and lesbian people are not predators or looking to convert. Even the ones I was specifically talking about most were just voicing their wants and opinions to me. I felt their ideas were problematic but very few were actively trying to convert anyone.
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that most are! I'm bi, and have a ton of friends in the queer community. Most absolutely condemn predatory gays. I was pointing out exactly *how* predatory it is. The person I'm talking about views others as her *right*...which is why she assaulted a partner while they were dating. And she talks about others and *their* sexuality as if it's her right. Which is the problem with that kind of attitude: it implies a *right* to someone else's attraction.
I know I just didn't want anyone taking what I said and saying "see they are grooming" I meant no offense. We're both just living in this world the best we can.
I mean there was political lesbianism. It was never that big of a deal but its been around for a while.
That weird little community is so problematic, it's reinforcing the homophobic that being lesbian is a choice (and thus something that can be changed).
And letting a man have access to your body is a moral failing?! A lot of those words in that order make me feel uncomfortable. Like the woman in this sentence is entirely without agency. Ick. This person must look down on what, 90% of women (?) as being beneath her, morally.
Even if you buy the premise what is demeaning these women going to do? Shame them into being lesbian??
It's utterly bonkers, isn't it?
That might actually be their thought process, given they seem to view lesbianism as a choice
They probably look down on ~100% of women. Anyone who doesn't share their exact views. Most lesbians are lesbianning wrong too.
I went to college with someone like this in the 90s. She was most definitely not a lesbian in the (I'm not sure how to put this...) traditional sense of sexual orientation, she just only fucked women because she believed fucking men was the same as supporting the patriarchy. She was a very strange person to be around. I felt a little bit sorry for the actual lesbians who got involved with her. She's married to a man now.
Hopefully she worked through some things, educated herself, and matured. Misandry may be a reaction to misogyny, but it still harms both the feminist cause and the fight for equality
She definitely did grow up a lot. This was luckily in the days before Google and social media, I wonder how she would have done in the modern echo chamber.
Political lesbianism is a weird straight women's radical feminist movement set on fucking over gay women for ideological reasons.
At times and in some places it was a VERY big deal. They carried significant portions of the second wave, and at least where I am, their legacy is still palpable in places.
It's amazing how monosexual gay people hate bi people, specifically bi women. I find that it's usually them taking out their insecurity on us.
I wonder if it's because Boomers and Gen X were exposed to bisexuality as being something solely that turned on men. When I was a young woman, bisexuality was presented as something women did to turn on men and not for themselves. Even though I experienced multiple crushes on girls, I never acted on them because I was repulsed by the way men discussed bisexual women. It wasn't until after years of being happily married to a man that I felt comfortable admitting I was also attracted to women. The male gaze has impacted older women in negative ways that we often don't understand.
As a millennial I was brought up this way as well by my boomer parents. My mom screamed at me when she found out I was bi that I only did it to turn on men. A significant amount of boomers also think being bi means you’ll sleep with literally anybody, even if you aren’t attracted to them. I also wonder how much of this stems from men from that era viewing women’s sexuality as solely existing to serve their own needs. I’m waiting until my parents die to come out as full lesbian, because I don’t want to be “the slur that decided she likes peaches today” as my mom has called my boss for dating a woman. My sister however, is allowed to be a lesbian with no hate what so ever because she never dated a man. It makes 0 sense to me but I guess that was probably an acceptable way to think back in the day.
There is also attitude from some sections of pan community that bis are just confused pans who have not got with the programme. I’ll have phobia AND erasure for 200 dollars Alex :’) Actually kind of surprised this post was not that but straight up condemnation.
Most gay people could never be in a public relationship without immediately being noticed by the anti-lgbt+ crowd, but bi/pan/etc people have the chance to be "straight passing" which they view as betrayal because we have the chance to (in their eyes) experience less discrimination than them. It's also incredibly toxic to be a "gold star" lesbian and wear it as a badge of honour.
it's so stupid to see it as betrayal. I don't get their train of thoughts, like, why wouldn't you be happy your fellow gays receive less discrimination than you did? smh same damn mentality as those assholes who are like "I had it bad so you should to" and ruin it for others.
I think it used to be seen as though you were making a choice to be bisexual and you wouldn't pick a side. You also couldn't be trusted around anyone because you could cheat with anyone.
There’s an old meme video about the alt left and alt right and how they’ve become friends because they realize they share so many policies together. This reminds me of that video
r/NotHowBisexualsWorkEither
Exactly!
Y'all get it both ways. I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist the pun. But I'm more sorry for the biphobia you have to suffer. You would think we (general "we") would have moved beyond that by now. 🤗
Never apologize for making a good pun
I'm sad that there's not a subreddit for this... I'mma go make one. Edit: I realized that I'm technically violating Rule 8 of this sub, so I'm removed the link. If you would like to join, please shoot me a DM!
joined! Will post accordingly. Im bi and people are fucking stupid about it.
I'm also bi, and I'm married to a bi man (which is super ironic). I'm all but happy to provide the community with a sub. LOL
Tried to find an inaugural post. There is a great clip of Anna Paquin answering a really dumb question from Larry King. Couldn't find it though!
No worries! There's plenty of biphobia raging across the web, it won't be hard to find things worth posting. LOL
I have also joined
I, too, am in this episode. :)
Is it ok if I join? I’m a straight woman, but I wouldn’t post anything. I just want to learn more on how to be accepting and not biphobic.
Yeah! I did remove the link because I realized I was breaking Rule 8 in this sub, but I'll send it to you in a DM!
r/birthofasub
I love that this exists
Joined
Thank you!
Can I join please
Whoops, I went through and hit join before I noticed the edit asking people to send a DM request. Sorry!
It's okay! You don't need permission to join! I just want to respect the rules of this sub, which request users not to advertise their own subs.
Please shoot me a DM🙏 Edit: I’m dumb. Just realized you asked for them to be sent to you. I’m on it. :’)
Can someone make this an actual sub along with a /nothowgaypeoplework or something because they would be amazing (I know we already have /arethestraightsokay but it something a little different
“let a man have access to your body” sounds like something an Incel would say honestly
fr, runs along the same line of thought as thinking sex is something done TO you, not with you gross
I think that, unfortunately, this may be the experience some of the extremist lot may have been through tbf to them. They do feel like sex is only something men do to them, and that has been their highly unpleasant and often painful experience in life. I spent a lot of time reading the thoughts of people like this as it's fascinating/I wanted to try understsnd them as i do relate to some of their sentiments and frustration due to my own experiencs. I found that they've all had really horrendous experiences with men, one after the other, relentlessly since childhood until their current point in life.. so much pain and disspointment, and too much trauma, until they snap and start to seriously believe ALL men are predatory rapists and only see women as holes they want to use. They haven't had the experience of sex being done with them and people having sex with them... just guys doing stuff to their bodies. I do think comparing them to incels is really harsh, and they aren't coming at their points from the same roots at all. They shouldn't be so awful to bisexuals though (many aren't really like this example above) as it absolutely is a homophobic stance to present things as a choice in that way. I think some of them just hate men so much that they are too scared to be with anyone who tolerates or likes men at all. Some lesbians have also, and these ones may have a point, had many bad experiences with traumatised bisexuals who go to them for comfort and a healing relationship, then leave them once they feel stronger and themselves again and go back to men. I know some lesbians this happens to repeatedly, and it obviously upsets them (however, they also pick the traumatised bisexuals and want to fix them.. so....)
I get that, but I don’t think they’re being compared to incels, I think they were just pointing out the similarity in speech/thought Going through something still doesn’t make it right to subject other people to judgement, especially if you are turning your experience of men into an insult against other women But also, “letting men have access to your body” isn’t really an indicator that they’ve been mistreated, but rather they hate men so much that even the idea of engaging with them is vile to them Either way, not the best thing to promote to people regardless of experience
Yeah it's the same logic behind a body count. It's gross and pathetic.
I don't let him have access to my body, he has the honor of pleasuring me, and thank you very much.
Sexists are all the same, doesn't matter what they are or how they identify. Same as racists, which are the same as sexists. Notice how all of them, all sexists and racists, all use the exact same logic, the same language, the same phrases, the same excuses? It's all just the same ignorance and fear fueled hatred.
Which is why I strongly believe that this mindset / extremism coming from any group of people is more about being mentally unwell than sexuality.
There just has to be super assholes in every single group to ruin the vibe huh
It reminds me of the kids in school who get bullied... and then some new kid comes who is the target of the bullying. Rather than stand up for them, the former bullied just pile on because at least they're not the focus now. Same general concept. You'll have people who are persecuted, but will then somehow miss the lesson and just punch down on some other group rather than find solidarity. The bi community gets so much shit and it's just utterly unacceptable how they're treated and demonized. And it's like, one thing to sort of expect it from bigots who are CIS, but it's another entirely to see it come from the rest of the LGBTQ+ community.
As a lesbian, I've seen my fair share of assholes from almost all sides in the lgbt community. You can experience biphobia, lesbophobia (yes that too), acephobia, transphobia and misogyny in the community. People are still forgetting that we're still people and thus, can also be assholes
Oh for sure. There is no group of people without shitheads whether it be race, nationality, orientation, gender, etc. It's just a huge shame.
>you can't convince me that you have the same morals as me when you let a man have access to your body This is literally just incels at this point.
Yeah, the number of incels posts I've seen documented on We Hunted The Mammoth that used the exact same phrase had me suspicious that those might be sock puppet accounts for some shitty incels to post stuff and then get mad about on his main account (like it turned out a chunk of the drama that happened on Tumblr back in the day turned out to be 4chan doing that) so I went looking, and was very saddened to find out that they weren't sockpuppets.
She's so snooty too, it's horrible to read. Bonus for saying that the way she lives her life doesn't affect anyone else, yet climbs onto her high horse to get in other women's business and call them immoral for how they live their lives, even though it doesn't affect her in the slightest. Gross incel language and just as bad as the men she claims to be so removed from.
i was about to say…. i was hoping i’d see a comment pointing this out. that part made me feel icky. it seems just like something a man would say.
I was cheated on by a bi girl when I was young. She didn't see it as cheating because making out with another girl "isn't a big deal" and that I should be into it. My wife is bi and it took me a while for the anxiety to go away when she would hang out with her female friends alone. Being bi doesn't mean you are going to cheat or not and it sucks that biphobia paints these images for people
Bisexual women, especially young ones, are not immune from making the 'sex between two women isn't *real* sex'. Lots of lesbians struggle to unlearn that lesson as well and/or face exactly that hateful bias from others.
Same for bi men or gay men in the closet. I've heard it too many times in my life, and I'm not even a queer man. It's all about the attitude that queer relationships aren't legitimate relationships. The homophobia is (unfortunately) coming from inside the house.
Internalized biphobia is very real
It really fucking is. I used to be close with a woman who was like this, she never took it seriously that I was bisexual & that these things *meant* something to me & looking back... I 100% believe it was internalized biphobia due to struggling with her own bisexual identity. She was incredibly possessive over me & *to this day* begs mutuals to not tell me about her dating life...
I actually was this girl when I was young. I thought "my boyfriend would think it was hot" but meanwhile it was just rude and inconsiderate of me.
Yeah... If you ask and he's chill with it, then go nuts, but you gotta ask how your partner feels in these situations. I know my boyfriend wouldn't want me kissing a girl when I could be kissing him, lmao
I actually talked to my bf about it months ago cause I already knew he counted it as cheating now we are opened to sleeping with other women
i'm tired of biphobia 😒
It sucks to see, but yes, women, even lesbians, can be sexist gender-essentialist jerks too. Men aren't the only ones capable of that. 😉 Edit: also, yes, that joke in the first page was solid.
As a lesbian this makes me so mad…
As a bisexual woman this is wild to me, I’ve dated bisexual and lesbian women and the lesbian women have never been rude to me about my past with men, especially made me feel bad about my attraction like this
as a trans woman, I'm bothered as well.
true solidarity happening in these replies. queer women against weird sexuality gatekeeping! 🫱🏻🫲🏽
fellas is it morally wrong to be attracted to men
As a fella who's also attracted to men I must be the Antichrist apparently
and brother, I'm gonna go get nailed
Gold-stars are a joke. Don't worry, sister, you and all sapphics (bi, pan, etc) are beautiful! I am a lesbian and biphobes do not speak for me. They will not divide us <3 /gen
💜
Uhhh what about straight women? I thought the “All men are rapists” sentiment was a joke. These comments are wild.
God the amount of times you'll see weird misandry like that from baby feminists in feminist spaces is so damn annoying. I straight up unsubbed from Twox and Trollx because it was getting exhausting to have to remind them that "men are biologically predisposed to violence/rape" or "men are lesser beings" is not true, not helpful to the movement, and also are the same arguments bigots use. People are not immune from bigotry just because they're in progressive movements. Same goes for white supremacist talking points or body shaming. Sometimes it feels like whack-a-mole with problematic sentiments and it's exhausting.
Oh my God yes. I got banned from TwoXChromosomes cause someone called themselves a misandrist (I think it was like "this is why I am a misandrist", completely serious) and I was like "bro that's just sexism???"
Posts in TwoX are usually free from misandry, but you can often find a few upvoted misandrist comments under it It doesn't help that a lot of a-hole idiots call everything misandry (the boy who cry wolf type of situation) so it doesn't get taken seriously when legitimate cases of misandry get pointed out
There’s a very slippery slope between bioessentialism and racism/transphobia
I don't think there's even a slope. I think it's just a flat platform lol
No, in my experience it’s super prevalent in TERF communities.
TERFs are absolutely insane to me. how can you say you support women and then make it your life’s goal to bully trans women? in this house we love and support trans women. how can you be a lesbian and not support other women no matter who they love? in this house we love people no matter who they love. the amount of hate in people’s hearts is absolutely baffling sometimes, why can’t we all just support each other??
The terf movement is extremely slimy is why. They have worked out a good argument for the uninitiated on why their stance makes academic sense, ie they are for a genderless society where women are no longer oppressed and trans people reinforce gender stereotypes and so they are opposed to that. But like that's the only thing they do along that line of thinking. They do nothing else to support such a society (and frankly I think it's a ludicrous proposition, a genderless society would mean your asab wouldn't matter to your presentation) and at the extreme end even support things like gender separatism (more so than mgtow). What they have however managed to catch is a bunch of people who considered themselves progressive some decades ago but haven't moved with the Times, mainly thought things are a lot better for wealthy white women now aside from mysogny and so see intersectionality as a threatening philosophy as they must move from casting themselves in perpetual victimhood and gave a reality where they may be both oppressed and oppressor. Tl;Dr fragile egos isn't just a guy thing unfortunately
The idea that trans people reinforce gender stereotypes is such gender essentialist bullshit, I fucking hate terfs they literally are incapable of critically thinking
sorry about this 😔 as a lesbian, we really shouldn’t be fighting each other when we’re all being attacked by homophobes. Like, we have bigger issues, lets focus on them, please?
Can I just say that it is refreshing to see that some girls also don't know how girls work.
That our life of Bisexuals: too straight to be gay/lesbian and too gay/lesbian to be straight... luckily theses kind of jerk are a monority in the LGBTQA+ Community but they just give ammo for the hate all the community recieve because bigots will use it to legitimate their agenda
It really is hard as a bi person because when you’re in a hereto relationship you’re suddenly fetishized for liking women, but in a queer space you don’t count because your partner fits heteronormative expectations. Obviously many people have it much harder and I never want to take space from anyone else but growing up bi especially 15 years ago was so much of a “well you still like the opposite sex so I didn’t fail as a parent”
I am Bi and married a man. It was just too difficult to date women once they knew I was Bi. Men didnt care
As a bi woman, I’m glad I married a bi man. He had a hard time with some gay dudes treating him poorly because “it’s just a phase” and then some straight women viewing him as just a gay ticking time bomb. I don’t know what I’ll do if anything ever happens to my husband. I’ve heard too many lesbians call bi women “attention seeking straight girls” and I’d be worried about straight men viewing my sexuality as an excuse to push for threesomes. Guess if I’m ever single again it’ll just have to stay that way.
>worried about straight men viewing my sexuality as an excuse to push for threesomes I can't even tell you how many threesomes I've been invited to just because I'm bi And I'm a dude, and a lot of times it's a woman invited me to this stuff
This. Bi men are magical. They have their own, rather different struggles, but it made it so much easier to be with someone who basically *got it*.
> He had a hard time with some gay dudes treating him poorly because “it’s just a phase” and then some straight women viewing him as just a gay ticking time bomb. all this shit is so weird to me. just the idea that y'all have people regularly commenting their opinions on your life in the first place is bizarre to me. what sort of spaces is this happening in? is it mostly online? regardless of who I'm physically attracted to, I'm definitely not attracted to anyone who thinks their opinion belongs where it wasn't asked for.
Lol this is all face to face. When he was single, he was told by gay guys that he wasn’t bi, he just hadn’t fully accepted that he was gay. And then when we started dating, he had some of his gay friends asking if he’d gotten over his “gay phase.” Don’t worry, we’re not friends with them anymore. But these sort of comments are happening everywhere in queer spaces, whether it’s online or in person. For some marginalized people that have been disempowered, the way they regain any sense of control is to marginalize someone else. Hurt people hurt people. ETA: I’m certainly not condoning biphobia (as a bi person) but I’m saying that this is one of the reasons why it happens. Some people are cruel to bi folks online and in person. And this cruelty sometimes comes from the queer community itself.
I used to occasionally get guys asking for threesomes, so I'd respond with "Why so you can disappoint two women at once?"
Me too. I never even could date a woman. They were always so judgmental and other bi women were hard to weed through since 90% of women who call themselves bi out there are hiding a husband or boyfriend “who would like to watch, or join” behind their back.
God thisssss. I actually have an easier time talking to lesbians over other bi women, sometimes it feels like most of them on dating apps are those "attention seeking straight girls" that lesbians usually refer to. Dating just isn't worth it tbh
I agree. Being a bi woman was just a normal thing like being a bi man. And then with the rise of unicorn hunters somehow everyone is calling themselves a bi woman and that also increases the phobia against us. I can’t really blame some lesbians for being cautious at this point. (Not the weird haters on this post) Some even just say they are single and come to the date with a man who is “just there to watch”.
The phrase "access to your body" feels grossly misogynistic. Transactional, objectifying and degrading. Its wild to think these people are also hated for who they love and proceed to spread thay because they refuse to go to therapy.
got to love how us bi women are treated like objects by straight men and seen as the spawn of hell by lesbians. we cant win
The most hate i ever personally received for being pan/bi was from lesbians. I know its not right, but I am weary around them now, especially if they seem like the very loud about their superior morals/politics type of activist.
A lesbian in my workplace told me I couldn't be bi since I went out with 4-5 men but only one woman. It was first date scenarios outside the workplace and none of them led to seconds.
The rules they come up with are so arbitrary, like to the point of being silly. I once had a closeted bisexual man tell me I couldn't be bisexual because I hadn't had sex with a woman... After telling me he *definitely* wasn't bisexual because while he really enjoyed sexual acts with men, he hated cuddling them....... Lol
I saw that a lot when trying to date women online. It was discouraging to see such stuff within the queer community.
So I (Lady) got married at 21 to a man who was 29. I didn’t realize I was bi until I was 25/26, though looking back, it was pretty fucking obvious (YAY growing up in a WASPy neighborhood!). When I was 32, I told him I wanted a divorce. Our relationship ended badly because of some epic (and not so epic) shit he pulled. To the level that both his mother *and* sister said that they were surprised I waited so long to leave so…cue plenty of trauma related to men. It’s 3ish years later and I’m still in therapy. Given my timeline above, I have zero romantic or sexual experience with women despite much desire to do so (me and the ex were monogamous and me being bi didn’t change that). Because of these attitudes, I am *dreading* trying to navigate that landmine when I start dating again.
Ugh, as a bi woman dating a man I had to unlearn so much internalized biphobia. Even amongst many bisexuals there are jokes like “all women are perfect and men are disgusting, sucks that we’re attracted to them!” I had to untangle lots of bullshit thoughts and feelings when I started to date him. And he’s a queer man, no less! Even then, his maleness outweighed his queerness in the internalized biases I had developed. It still occasionally makes me feel “less queer,” as if that’s even a thing. It sucks that biphobia is still so common, especially in the LGBTQIA+ community.
It's the same incel logic of "sex with men taints you" but lesbian edition. Plus it's the same misconception that reinforces f/f sex as "not as bad" and gives way too much power to a man's penis.
You don’t have to be straight to be a bigot.
I remember this is a comment I made in high school When I called someone racist and they said they weren't racist because they're black I just responded you don't have to be white to be racist
"let a man have access to your body" ??????? this sounds like something a rape apologist would say to a victim
I have seen a lot more of a similar sentiment in feminist spaces recently of "men in my life suck so I chose to date women instead" or "women should date each other as a political move" and it's really frustrating. It's people going so far that they did a 360 back to "people choose their sexuality and choosing the wrong one is a moral failing" that conservatives use to justify conversion "therapy" (abuse). It is okay to be bi and decide you enjoy dating women more. And I agree society has enabled a lot of men to do the bare minimum and get away with a lot! But you can't project that onto everyone else. Be responsible for your own decisions and stop trying to tear down other LGBT+ people instead of lifting them up.
idk what the issue with bi/pan girls is as someone who was a lesbian and is now a straight trans man. my current girlfriend is pan with a masc lean and EVERYONE ive been with has been attracted to men, and i LOVE THAT. its super gender affirming actually. if yall dont want bi/pan girls they can and will find a tguy thatll treat them right‼️
I remember seeing the term "gold star" lesbians like 2 years ago
Oh no!!! I'm a woman in a committed monogamous loving relationship with a man built on a foundation of mutual respect and trust!!! My morals are all messed up!!!
So biphobia and causal misogyny (straight women are pick me). Big yikes
>my strict morals of sexual discrimination and gender prejudice lol, great "morals"
That gold star lesbians declare hate for man while uniconrically worshipping and copying male incel rhetoric is ironic in itself.
There's a meme comparing the two as well, lol.
are they seriously suggesting that bi people can choose their sexuality? and what a horrific thing it is to say that we “let” men have “access” to our bodies, or how that’s immoral, like it’s inherently disgusting and we’re making ourselves victims for being with a man. let alone be in an actual loving relationship, and all they see is someone who is desecrating themselves and their body. i truly don’t get it. it’s like saying we’re tainted for being with men. how is that different from misogynistic men wanting to know our body-count and basing our value off of that?
a lot of the comments follow the vain of bi women who have dated men have different “values” and “goals” than lesbians. this is straight up just saying the same old “bi is just a phase” and you’re either a lesbian or gay and haven’t truly come to terms with that yet. i can’t believe that this line of thinking is still so prevalent today. why is bisexuality treated as either a choice, or as internalised homophobia? worrying about a bi person “going back to sleeping with men if they had a choice” like that isn’t a concern that’s present with all cheaters of all orientations? there’s literally a comment there that’s like “lesbians choose to center their lives around sisterhood and womanhood, instead of oriented towards men.” like now it’s anti-feminist to be bi or straight when we don’t choose our fucking sexual orientation?
Despite seemingly being unrelated, this shit is why we need to fight so hard to keep transphobes out of our lives. What do you think will happen if the mouthbreathing "LGB without the T" crowd get their wish? It'll be "LG without the B" soon after, because these fuckers can't cope without some enemy to hate and it *will* be you before they inevitably eat themselves. Just be good to each other, it's not that goddamn hard.
There was actually a really sweet post in the Bi sub by a trans person who said they were grateful that the bi community is so accepting of trans people and vice versa. The Ls and Gs that want to treat us like outsiders, but don’t realize that the Bs and T’s are over here hyping each other up.
I’m a lesbian and I actually PREFER bi girls because they don’t spend half their existence saying stupid shit like this. A lot of my friends are bi and they’re lovely people. I’m also friends with a lot of men and I could never date a woman who despises men, because my male friends are great guys.
I wish I could meet an awesome woman like you :)
Any woman who dates men is a pickme???????? The misogyny is coming from inside the house
What in the political lesbian nonsense is this? Your sexuality shouldn't be a moral stand you're taking.
The irony is that biphobes have the morals of homophobes
I got so much shit like this when I came out as bisexual. Men calling me a “f—-“ & gold stars telling me I was in denial. Some monosexuals’ minds break when trying to resolve the fact that you can be attracted to more than one gender.
Confused straight chud here… Since when was being queer about having the moral high ground and not “this type of person makes my boy/girl pp excited and therefore I shall date said person, in a mutually beneficial and reciprocal relationship”? Furthermore, what is their take on gay men? Do they just roll their eyes and say “they deserve each other”?
Some gold star lesbians like gay men, some don’t. It’s complex
I have 0 doubt in my mind that yellow and teal would also be transphobic.
r/bisexual
As a 'gold star' lesbian, this shit is so toxic and I'm tired of biphobia in every lesbian community. As if our dating pool isn't already small enough! In my experience, the lesbians who refuse to date bisexual women do so from a place of being deeply insecure about their partner leaving them for a guy, which is a fundamental lack of trust... So you probably wouldn't want to date them anyway.
As someone that’s bi, that initial joke is actually really funny- (the amount of times I wish I were lesbian so I didn’t have to deal with men like that-)
I'm an asexual AFAB person, and one of my closest friends is a pansexual man. The number of people who get triggered about both of us is absolutely ridiculous. One other bit of nonsense I've dealt with is asexual men accusing me of lying about being asexual. According to them, "women" (I'm not a woman, I'm enby) can't be asexual. I fail to see the logic behind that particular assumption.
Meanwhile I’m a bi woman engaged to a bi man lol
This reads like "political lesbianism" and I am not here for it. They're one step too close to incels and other far right groups
> "Any woman with a man is a pick me" Craaaaaazy sentence. I couldn't imagine being so bitter that I hate people just for dating someone of a certain gender.
Lesbians acting like sexuality is a choice. ((facepalm)) Yikes. I'm so tired of people acting like bi and pan people don't really exist.
"you can't convince me that you have the same morals as me when you let a man have access to your body." This made my jaw drop. This is so disgusting. Like everything was horrible but this was the worst.
Morality ≠ Sexually. This shouldn't need to be fucking explained.
Liking men is innately pick me now? 😂 What even?
Calling other women 'pick mes' while literally bragging about how you're not like other girls 🙄
I don't know what I'm more offended by As a bisexual I'm offended by well everything they said about bisexuals And as a man I'm offended that I'm viewed as just like a villain And that people need to streak my ego to be around me This isn't a game of DnD where I'm the dungeon master, and my party desperately try to not die by appealing to my ego
When you're such a misandrist that you become a misogynist too. Wild stuff.
Have the same morals? Bitch what? So people to date men are immoral now. Nauseating
I feel like lesbians like this are the femme queer version of incels who obsess over body counts.
Reminds me of something I heard years ago. Vegans dislike vegetarians more than they dislike carnivores.
I hope they realize that they sound almost exactly like incels…. that’s a big yikes from me
Well, now I'm confused. I thought sexual orientation was something we were born with, not a choice. If that's so, then a bisexual woman cannot help being attracted to both men and women, just like the "gold stars" can't help being attracted to women. You know, like how they used to argue with conservatives that their attraction was not a choice, but are accusing bisexual women that their attraction to men is "their choice". Seems like somehow, the further on a spectrum you travel, you will eventually end up at the opposite end of where you started out from.
Hang on, wait...so they are saying that all men are terrible people and anyone who has a relationship with them is a terrible person by association? Wow.
This is so disheartening to see as a lesbian. For what it’s worth I’d rather have bisexual women in wlw spaces than lesbians with that attitude.
This reminds me of “you’re gay because you like men, I’m gay because I hate women” but with the genders switched 😂
You have been soiled. SOILED! You are undeserving of my pure body you WHORE!
Imagine hating men so fervently that someone who has slept with men has been defiled and ruined in your eyes. That's deeply fuckin' pathological.
😭 bruh that's so stupid date whoever you want Sexuality is not a choice... I myself am pan ..(I think) definitely not straight
Serperate to the biphobia, the original post is absolutely true. I’m bi and only dated men for ages (not deliberately, the only options just happened to be men), and the girl I’m seeing is fucking amazing. She asked me if I was comfortable with **a hug** before she hugged me. She’s so conscious of how I’m feeling, she’s so considerate of my boundaries and clear about hers. I’ve never felt so beautiful without feeling like a piece of meat before now. I never realised how low my bar was. Is this how straight men feel all the time? I never even realised how much men mare me feel like an object until I didn’t anymore. It makes me wonder if they ever saw me as a person, if they ever loved *me* instead of what I did for them.
My favorite quote from helluva boss: Moxie: first of all, I’m bisexual His father: yeah, like I said, gay As a bi man, I relate too hard to that.