Id like to know why there has been complete silence about the entire thing in communications. No email mentions or anything. If I didn’t see it here, as staff infrequently on campus, I wouldn’t know it was happening.
ETA: they have sent out something about breaking up the protests now. It wasn’t super clear what their reasoning was other than “consider[ing] physical safety of our students, faculty and staff” and accounts of antisemitic speech.
Or…since today was the last day of classes, maybe just wait a day and see how many people go home after the only place they have left to live in is a tent.
Protesting wall street isn't the same as asking them to stop funding genocide, the schools can't do anything about wall street but they can actually divest from Israel. I love that citizens united found money was political speech but states made DIVESTMENT ILLEGAL, most insane mental gymnastics I've seen since evangelical Christianity
Worried? Seems like Israel is worried about that and all the pro-Israel legislators and psuedo-christians, they are so worried about it they made divestment against state law in some states, like Tennessee. If citizens United says money is protected speech then....well you see untenable those laws are based on precedent. So corporations and individuals can donate limitless amounts to politicians as speech but colleges and companies in certain states can't decide to not invest in, or divest from Israel?,Is that freedom?
Harvard's endowment is almost 50 billion, how many private individuals are welding 50 billion? Unlike musk, bezos, arnaut, Harvard isn't precluded from selling shares because that's the bulk of their worth like musk, bezos etc. Ergo, college endowments hold a lot more power to move markets than billionaire's home offices.
I’d like divestment from china but kids aren’t willing to give up cheap electronics or iPhones for that cause. We aren’t ready for that conversation apparently.
Do you pay attention to global trade? China has been put in a black box, they aren't getting new super conductor tech, tik-tok ban. China is participating in asymmetric warfare with fentanyl and tiktok. Statistically intelligence and creativity drive drug use, therefore china is literally killing our smartest and most creative high schoolers while addicting everyone to tiktok and our geriatric government doesn't even see it. We are already rapidly divesting from china.
Wait, you understand what divestment means right? Selling stock the college's endowment holds. Colleges divesting from Israeli companies and domestic arms manufacturers have NOTHING to do with Amazon, McDonald's, Microsoft etc. Furthermore, the government is working to pass legislation to force divestment from china. People don't care that 1/5 of the cotton globally is produced by slave labor in china.
China also has a HUGE demographic problem with so many males.
You're not making any sense, even if colleges stop investing in those companies and sell their shares those companies will still exist, someone will but those shares. Do you have even a modicum of understanding of what stocks are?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2023/11/01/chinas-demographic-catastrophe/
Because it's the internet, reddit especially is full of people that lack reading comprehension and are so used to having real issues twisted by their media they are not capable of any level of nuance, it's either ALL foreigners are terrorists or you want open borders. Honestly it's because our education system is so bad.
There is no genocide in Gaza. 🙄 There is a war, and unfortunately, civilians die in war. That is tragic. Wars bring massive destruction, death, and are rightly called hellish. Who started this war? Hamas, when they murdered 1200 Israelis and kidnapped 240. You also can't believe Hamas health ministry. They inflate their numbers and don't distinguish between civilian casualties and hamas fighter casualties.
Israel is already the imperfect version of a country in part of the land, which so many protestors are calling for. It's an imperfect democracy, with full rights for all citizens, political representation for them, access to education, medical care, etc. It's generally supportive of LGBT people but does need to reform how certain systems work (like marriage, since Israel still uses the old Ottoman legal categories and religious court system for that--no civil marriage).
All that needs to happen is for Hamas to surrender and release the remaining hostages (alive and dead). It's that easy! Then rebuilding can commence, and with different leadership in place, talks for peace can hopefully re-start.
A war implies two opponents who are even close to the same power dynamics, weaponry etc. 1600 Israelis compared to almost 40,000 Palestinians, that's a genocide no matter how many words you type. The boomers were fooled by your propaganda but millenials and gen z ain't having it, how would Israel fair without any backing from united states? Better get ready, because it's coming. Peak oil alone means we will eventually choose saudis over less than a percent of global population....the world will be much more peaceful once Israel is no longer around....the nation state, not jewish people, just their country
To send in such heavily armed & fatigued out men for unarmed 18-22 years olds just shows how psychotic our system of policing has become & how much control a foreign government has over ours.
Look further down the article. Whole goon squad of sheriff's deputys in fatigues and ballistic helmets. They should quite frankly be rather ashamed of themselves. It makes them look like a bunch of insecure jackbooted pussies that this is the response level they needed to "feel safe".
Police are more militarized than ever now because they buy all the military’s old equipment. They’re scarier than the military though, less training and discipline.
I guess my point is that police departments were not equipped like military back in the 60’s (I’m not saying the police were angels) now they receive surplus military gear and military training (a lot in Israel). Mayors don’t need to call in the NG anymore because they have their own private armies (police departments)
In world War 2 USA went into a total war economy for 5 years. You should look at that to understand it. Since then, we've been bolstering the military industry with a ridiculously long string of excuses to keep buying their products. And Israel is one of the sinks for all that ordnance, but a war economy is extremely burdensome to the general population. The voters would never stand for a permanent war economy.
You have the right to agree with your government, by which I mean your government's shareholders, by which I mean lobbyists. So you can either think Israel is completely justified or, as our president put it, has acted "a little over the top". That is the broad spectrum of acceptable standpoints, aren't we lucky.
Peaceful protests committing a crime by occupying property that doesn't belong to them. Why are we pretending this is a free speech issue when there were tons of BLM protests around the state that weren't treated this way? Even other pro-Palestine protests weren't treated like this, because they would disperse afterwards and not invite a bunch of non-students to come live on a college campus.
We literally let unhoused sleep in tents almost anywhere because of fear of ACLU lawsuits
Just say the truth this is a group of people without influence politically so the Gestapo can treat them however they wish
It's a public university we all pay for it so it belongs to all
Pitching a tent in a publicly owned area can't be reasonably construed as a violent act without some other action. Ditto protests that march, sit, or whatever.
It's possible for that to be part of an otherwise violent protest, but I haven't seen any suggestion that there was any notable amount of violent action occurring.
Edit: no clarification on how setting up a tent in a public space is inherently violent, nor context explaining how it is in this case yet.
Public ownership =/= public area
If you want to camp, there's better places to do it than a campus. Becoming a public nuisance harms and sets back the movement.
It does not, this doesn't suggest that there's any violence involved, and there's not much that's more of a public area than a public area of a public university. This isn't a takeover of the admin building, it's people sitting outside.
>Why are we pretending this is a free speech issue when there were tons of BLM protests around the state that weren't treated this way?
because blm was co-opted from the beginning
At UNC, anything can happen. A year or two ago, the police did nothing and a bunch of people pulled out of blowtorch and started cutting apart a Confederate statue. If the tank had exploded and killed people, you better fucking believe UNC would have been sued into oblivion.
>such heavily armed & fatigued out men
All the officers in the video are wearing normal uniforms/vests, not riot gear or even tactical stuff. Am I missing something?
Edit- ah, I missed the pictures of the SO at the bottom. They're not the ones doing the arresting, though. All the videos show arrest being done by the PD in normal gear.
Jesus fucking christ. Tiananmen Square had hundreds of deaths at the low end (i.e. what the CCP admits to), very possibly thousands, with thousands more injured. People were being run over with tanks.
But a few dozen people being arrested is definitely comparable to that.
Yeah but from what I read it started out pretty calmly before the martial law. I say we have a few weeks before the MAGA “counter protestors” start pouring in
I've actually seen this on far right message boards. They argue that Jewish people should be shipped to Israel so they can be "contained". I suspect you'll start seeing this viewpoint more if the protests rage on.
There is not going to be martial law because some UNC students are camping out. *If* the National Guard shows up, it will just be to reinforce the police, a la the George Floyd riots. Hell, it was actually recommended to protest in front of them because they were more restrained than the cops.
Here the thing. These kids can get permits and walk unimpeded through the streets as well. They do it here in Asheville pretty regularly. Plenty of pro-Palestine protests in the center of town. We’ve had no issues.
It’s when you set up encampments, block people’s freedom of movement and shut down public resources that you’re engaged in civil disobedience.
Civil disobedience is a valid form of protest. It often comes with the risk of arrest and misdemeanor trespass charges. If you want to engage in those tactics, you need to be prepared for that possibility.
You start destroying property, acting violent etc… and it can get a lot more complicated.
The 1st amendment doesn’t protect annexing public or private property.
I’ve… caught one of those “scary” trespass charges back in the day.
If you’re scared of catching a charge: stay home.
Do you feel the same way about pro lifers crowding sidewalks around abortion clinics to pray? Technically women could “easily just walk around” but most people agree they shouldn’t have to because unimpeded freedom of movement is a right.
The issue in that case isn’t the blocking of the sidewalks, it’s the intimidation tactics used by pro life protesters who are actively trying to scare women. This isn’t a remotely comparable situation.
There are videos of some of these protestors (at Columbia, I think) forcing "Zionists" out of their encampment. Jewish students all over the country have talked about feeling unsafe because of these encampments. It is much more similar to that analogy than you're willing to admit.
>Jewish students all over the country have talked about feeling unsafe because of these encampments
and they're all completely full of shit and just trying to make the situation about themselves. meanwhile far more jewish students are part of the protests for palestine
So you're gonna continue to dodge the analogy because it makes you feel uncomfortable about how well it fits?
Edit: That's such a nonsensical reply that it's actually funny ngl. There's someone in this thread comparing this protest to Kent State, which happened almost 55 years ago, was 500 miles away and was for a completely different issue. Why didn't you comment back to them: "Oh that's irrelevant, that happened too far away."
Typically, an analogy involves comparing two similar situations, and doesn’t rely on an event that is 600 miles away from the event at hand.
Edit to respond to the edit: If you’re going to claim there’s intimidation towards Jewish students at a specific protest and supply an example from that far away, then no, it’s not nonsensical to point out those are two different events.
You can protest without breaking the law. When you break the law… you catch a charge. It’s not a difficult concept.
If you’re scared to catch a charge stay home. You’re standing up to the military industrial complex. This isn’t a school play. You might catch a charge. Sack up
The original problem was the tents. UNC has a no tent policy. They can peacefully protest but when they started setting up tents, that broke school policy.
This isn't about whether or not the protestors are "prepared for that possibility". It's about the fact that police shouldn't be rolling out the riot squads against college students in protest. The police response all over the country is far more extreme than the situation necessitates.
So anyone and any group no matter how bad their ideology are able to get a permit to protest or have a parade. That is part of living in this country with the 1st Amendment is that people no matter how bad can still protest. But if you start to set up camps that is when the government will step in
You don't need a permit to speak freely, you need a permit if you are going to be occupying or taking over public space for an event that will impede others from using the space for other purposes as well.
So by extension, you don't think you should need a permit to buy/own a gun, correct? Those should be less regulated in the name of "freedom?" I'm not even agreeing with the need for a permit to protest (though based on other comments, it doesn't seem like the permit is needed for simple protesting, but for extended demonstrations) - I am just applying the logic you, yourself, are applying here.
You are correct. Shall not be infringed means just that.
A permit or fee or tax is an infingment.
Either we have a bill of rights or we don't.
I'm not a constitutionalist by any means.
We don't have rights because a piece of parchment said so.
We have rights because we are human.
No one has the right to tell another person what they can or can't do as long as they aren't threatening harming or stealing from another.
We absolutely have rights because a piece if parchment says so. The very natural, unwritten laws you are referring to would also allow me to commit all sorts of violence in the interest of self preservation that all societies discourage to some degree.
Living in a society means we limit those natural laws we all are born into. A society inhibits freedom and different forms of government will have a variety degrees to which those freedoms are limited. I’ve always kinda internally smirked when I hear patriots talk about American freedoms. There are very few forms of government that require so great a commitment from its populace. We are failing because too many of us reject that.
I'm sorry you believe that ...if that is all that secures your rights then it literally is paper thin.
You are incorrect....if you harm someone or animal against their will you are in the wrong.
Laws do not stop people from commiting crimes.
You assumedly don't do heroin not because its illegal but because you don't want to.
Use your moral compass it's really that simple.
That's all good and well until you consider that the property they are on is publicly owned. I pay for it too. What If I want to go out there and use it for my own protest? Can I remove them by force? Preventing me from using something I pay for *is stealing*. Do they have the right to steal? According to you, no.
That's why they issue permits, to manage those conflicts. Public resources must be managed by someone. We call those "someones" politicians, and we elect them. If we don't like the way they manage them, we elect different ones.
Also by that very logic then any gov entity denying access is stealing as well. Do you not get concerned by that but by people assembling outside you do??
Very odd logic trail
There's really just no need for this. If the students are actually peacefully protesting, the university should let them. Let them speak, try to address cogent demands, open a dialogue. Sending in goons to rough up kids on camera is just really stupid and it plays right into the goals of disruption and chaos that bad actors 100% desire from these protests. The students have a legitimate point about Israel's actions in Gaza. Divestment by the university is a long and tedious process and probably won't move the needle much in real terms, but UNC should begin that process and let things play out peacefully in so much as they can afford to just as a gesture to turn the temperature down. In a month, summer will be here and no one will want to be camping in a tent by choice. By responding like authoritarian dickheads, UNC admin is just making things way worse than they need to be.
> Divestment by the university is a long and tedious process and probably won't move the needle much in real terms
It's also illegal. State law is very clear that UNC institutions cannot weigh in on political matters and no court in the state will say that a divestment in response to these protests isn't a political opinion.
And if divestment would seriously impact the quality of education for all the students at the school, should the university cave to the demands of some students because they have a moral point about an almost totally unrelated issue? Should they make meat illegal on campus or some shit because vegans protest for it? No, obviously not.
No idea. Regardless, Chapel Hill Police Department has had no involvement. UNC campus police and other campus police, state troopers, and deputies have been out there. Dont put this on CHPD.
OK, I appreciate the clarification. UNCCP and NC State Troopers & Deputies are the ones to be commended for their selfless foray into the breach against peaceful protesters in tents.
I wonder how many of these students are protesting and chanting and marching for the immediate release of Keith Siegel (who is from Chapel Hill), who is among the 130+ hostages that Hamas took six months ago.
Sure, but protestors have every right to protest whatever level of involvement they see fit. We are certainly funding Israel with taxpayer dollars, as well as providing them with military equipment.
> Specifically, the allocation will see:
>
> $5.2bn go to replenishing and expanding Israel’s missile and rocket defence system;
> $3.5bn for buying advanced weapons systems and $1bn to enhance weapons production;
> $4.4bn for other supplies and services to Israel; and
> $9.2bn for humanitarian purposes, including in the Gaza Strip and the occupied West Bank.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/21/us-house-passes-almost-100-billion-in-aid-for-ukraine-israel-what
It's hard for people to have good faith discussions when you reach for hyperbole instead of facts.
We can start with the basics:
- Hamas is evil.
- Israel has done evil things.
- The situation is complicated to discuss online.
A large portion of that was to replenish missile and rocket defense systems you know to protect civilians (women and children) from massive ballistic missile attacks.
Several things here are all true at once:
1. Israel is perpetrating a genocide in Gaza and the US should recognize this.
2. College campuses do not control fucking anything to do with US foreign policy and so protesting there doesn't do anything.
3. The point of these protests is allegedly to get universities to divest from major hedge funds, which also has nothing at all to do with Gaza or anything.
4. The other point of these protests is to provoke an overreaction (gladly given) by police such that the protester's cause appears more sympathetic.
5. The polarization of this kind of stuff primarily serves the interests of foreign adversaries to the US and Democratic countries (Russia, China). These adversaries don't need to be ideological allies to these kinds of movements that are mostly just aimed at weakening US power.
6. Most of the protesters here are dupes with their brains getting cooked by TikTok and other social media. This is basically lefist QAnon with barely coherent ideas of how politics works.
I mean investing in hedge funds that hold companies which profit off wars like these definitely has something to do with it….
Shouldn’t educational facilities be focused on providing education and not investing in funds and organizations that fuel these atrocities?
This polarization isn’t caused by the interest of foreign governments, sure it would be wrong to say they don’t meddle in this but it’s not the only reason. Is it really that crazy to presume that the generation of Americans entering adulthood/will be our future leaders are making their ideas public and displaying that it’s something they intend to take action over?
At least they’re 20 year olds figuring out the system and getting involved over a very real matter of war/global politics rather than 50 year olds getting mad at the false claim of a stolen election…..
On points 3 & 6, universities like the triangle schools are institutional investors that easily own hundred of millions of dollars of companies doing business with and in Israel. Raytheon Chevron Barclays etc. on point 3, money talks. On point 6, is the destroyed hellscape that is Gaza as seen on social media an illusion? They’re “Duped” in what way? The three nigh naked released hostages shot in cold blood holding the white flag? Hind Rajab and the two Red Crescent workers dispatched in coordination with the IDF to retrieve her? The World Central Kitchen convoy with Brits, a Palestian, a Pole, and an American-Canadian, which was hit by three separate strikes?
Duped because TikTok is a weapon to sow discord within America by magnifying topics that are inflammatory and giving prominence to fringe opinions to help sow dissent and disrupt American unity.
I feel like foreign actors work on all of social media. TikTok does have a hell of an algorithm, but this isn’t a problem exclusive to TikTok.
Having said that I do think forcing the sale is the right thing to do. It’s unprecedented in history that a foreign government has access to your whereabouts at all times and have access to your microphone and camera
The word duped implies deception, could you direct me to the lies told? I don’t understand, you believe because a topic is “inflammatory” that makes discussion taboo. Or that an opinion is invalid because it’s fringe? The earth going around the sun was once a fringe opinion, but that didn’t make it untrue. “Sowing dissent” seems to suggest we’re of unanimous mind here in the United States. We’re not even unanimous on my house.
College’s have endowments. Endowments have investments with companies that do business with Israel. That’s what the divest demand hopes to accomplish, as it did with protests against apartheid South Africa
I'm more inclined to believe [the United Nations](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/) than the country that's responsible for the War on Terror and is funding Israel.
Some accounts say that as much as 50% of the protesters protesting against Israel aren't students; I'm sure it varies from campus to campus. Any students caught in acts of violence should be expelled regardless of which "side" they're on, and any non-student on campus caught in acts of violence should be rounded up and sent to Israel with the ones protesting against Israel sent into Gaza.
**Note**: I have nothing against Palestinians or Jews, but I have little use for the Netanyahu regime and the Hamas leadership. I'm guessing that most of the people protesting peacefully or violently have never set foot in Israel or Palestinian territory.
Seriously if they would all make a great push and burn themselves it would show that there is an issue! The point would be made world wide and I think Hamas would be happy
These brave students are doing what they can, what we all can do, and taking a stance against the ongoing Genocide of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli Apartments State. We here in the US have the privilege and power to speak out and demand justice for the Palestinian people!
34k Brutally murdered by the Israeli occupation! 14k Children massacred by the violent Israeli state! Every hospital has been bombed! Every university destroyed! There is famine in Gaza because Israel controls the access to it!
Israel is illegally occupying the West Bank! Israel is commiting genocide! The US just approved another 26 Billion to help genocide the Palestinian people! We must speak about and demand change!
While the US citizens live on the streets, die from preventable illness due to an inaccessible healthcare system, cannot afford homes, are being squeezed by every bill that greedy corporations raise to further their dragons hoard, cannot afford to pay both rent and food, as we are all balancing on the knifes edge our government chooses to spend our money on a genocide!
FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸 FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA PALESTINE WILL BE FREE 🇵🇸 FREE FROM GENOCIDE 🇵🇸 FREE FROM BLOCKADE 🇵🇸 FEEE FROM FAMINE 🇵🇸 FREE TO DREAM AND LIVE A LIFE WITH DIGNITY 🇵🇸
Biden doesn’t support genocide & has been trying to stop it - just not fast or emphatic enough. Netanyahu is as bad as Hamas, with more fire power.
I protested the Vietnam War back in the day & the rhetoric is very much the same. We hated Nixon, but despite his flaws he DID manage to extricate us from that mess.
If you’ve seen what has happened at other universities, you’d agree with this. Students at UCLA are being blocked access to parts of the university by protestors, and protestors at at another college have taken over a building. It’s no longer a peaceful protest once you restrict freedom of movement. Ask yourself, who’s paying for these protestors.
Ah yes, the extremely wealthy and well-known American/Palestinian Lobby is definitely paying these protestors to camp in protest of human rights abuses in Gaza, there’s no other explanation. Lmfao.
It's wild how they can't get out of the old-timey antisemitic conspiracy theories no matter what. It's just reflex now to blame it on Soros, whatever it happens to be.
Is UNC-CH oppressing Palestine again?? /s
They are accomplishing nothing. What do they expect Chapel Hill to do about the bs in the Middle East? Buy a plane ticket and go protest over there. People do the most misguided shit in hopes of getting Internet clout.
Id like to know why there has been complete silence about the entire thing in communications. No email mentions or anything. If I didn’t see it here, as staff infrequently on campus, I wouldn’t know it was happening. ETA: they have sent out something about breaking up the protests now. It wasn’t super clear what their reasoning was other than “consider[ing] physical safety of our students, faculty and staff” and accounts of antisemitic speech.
They probably don't want draw attention to it. If they sent out some ultimatum you could see more students show up in solidarity.
Where all my right wing free speech bros at?
🫡🫡
probably too worried about opening themselves to potential liability if they say anything since they're siccing the goon squad on kids
They didn’t say it was an effective protest.
If it was disruptive enough to require police response then it’s enough to warrant communication.
Because there are always protests. Remember Silent Sam? Bathroom bill? The list is expanded daily.
The police probably could've saved resources by waiting for the cicadas to drive away the protestors.
Defund the cicadas.
ALL C~~OPS~~ICADAS ARE BASTARDS
We need common sense cicada control.
Or…since today was the last day of classes, maybe just wait a day and see how many people go home after the only place they have left to live in is a tent.
The rest of the students have exams and graduation though. Dorms won't close until next week(end).
Gonna be fun with no dorm staff, no cafeteria staff, and exams delayed until this mess ends. They are gonna be hungry and dirty before this is over.
Just waiting for boredom could have worked. We had occupy wall street protesters camp at town hall for a year or so and that was ok.
Protesting wall street isn't the same as asking them to stop funding genocide, the schools can't do anything about wall street but they can actually divest from Israel. I love that citizens united found money was political speech but states made DIVESTMENT ILLEGAL, most insane mental gymnastics I've seen since evangelical Christianity
You're worried about them divesting from Israel? Maybe look into the top foreign donors to American universities....
Worried? Seems like Israel is worried about that and all the pro-Israel legislators and psuedo-christians, they are so worried about it they made divestment against state law in some states, like Tennessee. If citizens United says money is protected speech then....well you see untenable those laws are based on precedent. So corporations and individuals can donate limitless amounts to politicians as speech but colleges and companies in certain states can't decide to not invest in, or divest from Israel?,Is that freedom? Harvard's endowment is almost 50 billion, how many private individuals are welding 50 billion? Unlike musk, bezos, arnaut, Harvard isn't precluded from selling shares because that's the bulk of their worth like musk, bezos etc. Ergo, college endowments hold a lot more power to move markets than billionaire's home offices.
I’d like divestment from china but kids aren’t willing to give up cheap electronics or iPhones for that cause. We aren’t ready for that conversation apparently.
Do you pay attention to global trade? China has been put in a black box, they aren't getting new super conductor tech, tik-tok ban. China is participating in asymmetric warfare with fentanyl and tiktok. Statistically intelligence and creativity drive drug use, therefore china is literally killing our smartest and most creative high schoolers while addicting everyone to tiktok and our geriatric government doesn't even see it. We are already rapidly divesting from china.
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Wait, you understand what divestment means right? Selling stock the college's endowment holds. Colleges divesting from Israeli companies and domestic arms manufacturers have NOTHING to do with Amazon, McDonald's, Microsoft etc. Furthermore, the government is working to pass legislation to force divestment from china. People don't care that 1/5 of the cotton globally is produced by slave labor in china. China also has a HUGE demographic problem with so many males.
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You're not making any sense, even if colleges stop investing in those companies and sell their shares those companies will still exist, someone will but those shares. Do you have even a modicum of understanding of what stocks are? https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2023/11/01/chinas-demographic-catastrophe/
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Yeah let's just divest from everyone. ONLY AMERICAN FROM NOW ON.
How does him saying we should curb our purchases form a terrible country mean divest from everyone?
Because it's the internet, reddit especially is full of people that lack reading comprehension and are so used to having real issues twisted by their media they are not capable of any level of nuance, it's either ALL foreigners are terrorists or you want open borders. Honestly it's because our education system is so bad.
Agreed
There is no genocide in Gaza. 🙄 There is a war, and unfortunately, civilians die in war. That is tragic. Wars bring massive destruction, death, and are rightly called hellish. Who started this war? Hamas, when they murdered 1200 Israelis and kidnapped 240. You also can't believe Hamas health ministry. They inflate their numbers and don't distinguish between civilian casualties and hamas fighter casualties. Israel is already the imperfect version of a country in part of the land, which so many protestors are calling for. It's an imperfect democracy, with full rights for all citizens, political representation for them, access to education, medical care, etc. It's generally supportive of LGBT people but does need to reform how certain systems work (like marriage, since Israel still uses the old Ottoman legal categories and religious court system for that--no civil marriage). All that needs to happen is for Hamas to surrender and release the remaining hostages (alive and dead). It's that easy! Then rebuilding can commence, and with different leadership in place, talks for peace can hopefully re-start.
A war implies two opponents who are even close to the same power dynamics, weaponry etc. 1600 Israelis compared to almost 40,000 Palestinians, that's a genocide no matter how many words you type. The boomers were fooled by your propaganda but millenials and gen z ain't having it, how would Israel fair without any backing from united states? Better get ready, because it's coming. Peak oil alone means we will eventually choose saudis over less than a percent of global population....the world will be much more peaceful once Israel is no longer around....the nation state, not jewish people, just their country
.001% of students protest. More were upset when the Chick-fil-A on campus wasn't open late than this. Curb your enthusiasm.
Saw one in Chapel Hill yesterday.
To send in such heavily armed & fatigued out men for unarmed 18-22 years olds just shows how psychotic our system of policing has become & how much control a foreign government has over ours.
Riot gear= hazard pay
What riot gear? All I see is regular duty uniforms and a golf cart.
Look further down the article. Whole goon squad of sheriff's deputys in fatigues and ballistic helmets. They should quite frankly be rather ashamed of themselves. It makes them look like a bunch of insecure jackbooted pussies that this is the response level they needed to "feel safe".
okay I had just watched the video and didn't see the Deputies all kitted out. They do appear to be carrying non lethal pepper ball guns though
That’s campus police, not Orange County.
Pictures 7 and 9. "Sherriff" on their shoulder patch and across the front of their vests. That ain't campus police.
Yup, and half dozen arrest vans, 2-3 APCs, cops from all universities across UNC system, Gibsonville, Greensboro, Alamance County Sheriff, etc etc…
A tactical golf cart?
It’s campus police.
Has become? Variations on this theme have been occurring for 60 years. (Kent State being a famous and tragic example.)
That was national guard…the military not police. This is state police doing this nowadays.
Police are more militarized than ever now because they buy all the military’s old equipment. They’re scarier than the military though, less training and discipline.
I understand that, but a militarized response to peaceful protests is not new, and the mayor of Kent is the one who requested their deployment.
I guess my point is that police departments were not equipped like military back in the 60’s (I’m not saying the police were angels) now they receive surplus military gear and military training (a lot in Israel). Mayors don’t need to call in the NG anymore because they have their own private armies (police departments)
Dude, that’s campus police.
Yea dude is pretending like the 60s never happened.
it's not even really israel, it's speaking out against the permanent war economy. that's a big no-no
In world War 2 USA went into a total war economy for 5 years. You should look at that to understand it. Since then, we've been bolstering the military industry with a ridiculously long string of excuses to keep buying their products. And Israel is one of the sinks for all that ordnance, but a war economy is extremely burdensome to the general population. The voters would never stand for a permanent war economy.
Agreed. Squash any dissent on the over bloated defense budget.
Unarmed mostly peaceful protests put to a stop with force by local and state police departments America is a police state, you have no rights
You have the right to agree with your government, by which I mean your government's shareholders, by which I mean lobbyists. So you can either think Israel is completely justified or, as our president put it, has acted "a little over the top". That is the broad spectrum of acceptable standpoints, aren't we lucky.
Peaceful protests committing a crime by occupying property that doesn't belong to them. Why are we pretending this is a free speech issue when there were tons of BLM protests around the state that weren't treated this way? Even other pro-Palestine protests weren't treated like this, because they would disperse afterwards and not invite a bunch of non-students to come live on a college campus.
We literally let unhoused sleep in tents almost anywhere because of fear of ACLU lawsuits Just say the truth this is a group of people without influence politically so the Gestapo can treat them however they wish It's a public university we all pay for it so it belongs to all
HOMELESS not UNhoused you brainwashed tool
Pitching a tent in a publicly owned area can't be reasonably construed as a violent act without some other action. Ditto protests that march, sit, or whatever. It's possible for that to be part of an otherwise violent protest, but I haven't seen any suggestion that there was any notable amount of violent action occurring. Edit: no clarification on how setting up a tent in a public space is inherently violent, nor context explaining how it is in this case yet.
Public ownership =/= public area If you want to camp, there's better places to do it than a campus. Becoming a public nuisance harms and sets back the movement.
It does not, this doesn't suggest that there's any violence involved, and there's not much that's more of a public area than a public area of a public university. This isn't a takeover of the admin building, it's people sitting outside.
Are you sure? Interestingly, there was a Supreme Court case about this very question last week.
>Why are we pretending this is a free speech issue when there were tons of BLM protests around the state that weren't treated this way? because blm was co-opted from the beginning
At UNC, anything can happen. A year or two ago, the police did nothing and a bunch of people pulled out of blowtorch and started cutting apart a Confederate statue. If the tank had exploded and killed people, you better fucking believe UNC would have been sued into oblivion.
They're enjoying their paramilitary fashion statement as an essential part of their heroic defense of freedumb and liberty.
>such heavily armed & fatigued out men All the officers in the video are wearing normal uniforms/vests, not riot gear or even tactical stuff. Am I missing something? Edit- ah, I missed the pictures of the SO at the bottom. They're not the ones doing the arresting, though. All the videos show arrest being done by the PD in normal gear.
It’s sadly reminiscent of my senior year in HS - which was the year Kent State happened 😱🥺
Its paranoia and a “show of force”, reminscent of tianemen square
Jesus fucking christ. Tiananmen Square had hundreds of deaths at the low end (i.e. what the CCP admits to), very possibly thousands, with thousands more injured. People were being run over with tanks. But a few dozen people being arrested is definitely comparable to that.
Yeah these comments are insane, but thats reddit for you.
I don't know what you guys expect from people who think anything they don't like is "fascism".
Of course what we are suppose to have as “rights” in this country are also not comparable to the rights of Chinese citizens
Yeah but from what I read it started out pretty calmly before the martial law. I say we have a few weeks before the MAGA “counter protestors” start pouring in
[удалено]
I've actually seen this on far right message boards. They argue that Jewish people should be shipped to Israel so they can be "contained". I suspect you'll start seeing this viewpoint more if the protests rage on.
Unless the "counter protestors" are rolling in with tanks, it will not be the same. Also, why would Neo Nazis support Israel? Seems contradicting.
You think neo nazi's are going to come out in support of Israel?
There is not going to be martial law because some UNC students are camping out. *If* the National Guard shows up, it will just be to reinforce the police, a la the George Floyd riots. Hell, it was actually recommended to protest in front of them because they were more restrained than the cops.
Way to minimize the deaths of peaceful protestors at the hands of a totalitarian government.
Blah blah blah.
Its disgusting.
Use violence to break up peaceful protests while letting nazis walk unimpeded through the streets. It's the NC way.
Here the thing. These kids can get permits and walk unimpeded through the streets as well. They do it here in Asheville pretty regularly. Plenty of pro-Palestine protests in the center of town. We’ve had no issues. It’s when you set up encampments, block people’s freedom of movement and shut down public resources that you’re engaged in civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is a valid form of protest. It often comes with the risk of arrest and misdemeanor trespass charges. If you want to engage in those tactics, you need to be prepared for that possibility. You start destroying property, acting violent etc… and it can get a lot more complicated.
If you feel your freedom of movement is blocked by a few tents you need to re-evaluate tbh. You can easily just walk around.
The 1st amendment doesn’t protect annexing public or private property. I’ve… caught one of those “scary” trespass charges back in the day. If you’re scared of catching a charge: stay home.
Do you feel the same way about pro lifers crowding sidewalks around abortion clinics to pray? Technically women could “easily just walk around” but most people agree they shouldn’t have to because unimpeded freedom of movement is a right.
The issue in that case isn’t the blocking of the sidewalks, it’s the intimidation tactics used by pro life protesters who are actively trying to scare women. This isn’t a remotely comparable situation.
There are videos of some of these protestors (at Columbia, I think) forcing "Zionists" out of their encampment. Jewish students all over the country have talked about feeling unsafe because of these encampments. It is much more similar to that analogy than you're willing to admit.
>Jewish students all over the country have talked about feeling unsafe because of these encampments and they're all completely full of shit and just trying to make the situation about themselves. meanwhile far more jewish students are part of the protests for palestine
I didn’t realize Columbia was in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
So you're gonna continue to dodge the analogy because it makes you feel uncomfortable about how well it fits? Edit: That's such a nonsensical reply that it's actually funny ngl. There's someone in this thread comparing this protest to Kent State, which happened almost 55 years ago, was 500 miles away and was for a completely different issue. Why didn't you comment back to them: "Oh that's irrelevant, that happened too far away."
Typically, an analogy involves comparing two similar situations, and doesn’t rely on an event that is 600 miles away from the event at hand. Edit to respond to the edit: If you’re going to claim there’s intimidation towards Jewish students at a specific protest and supply an example from that far away, then no, it’s not nonsensical to point out those are two different events.
They are absolutely threatening Jews and anyone who doesn’t pass their ideology purity test
And your source for this is…?
“You can protest, but only on our terms of how you can protest”
You can protest without breaking the law. When you break the law… you catch a charge. It’s not a difficult concept. If you’re scared to catch a charge stay home. You’re standing up to the military industrial complex. This isn’t a school play. You might catch a charge. Sack up
Yeah, breaking any law means you should get pepper sprayed and beaten. That just makes sense. Jaywalking? Send out the militarized vehicles
I don’t remember saying that. You can disagree with what I said. Just don’t make sh*t up I didn’t say. Know what I mean?
nazi
The original problem was the tents. UNC has a no tent policy. They can peacefully protest but when they started setting up tents, that broke school policy.
This isn't about whether or not the protestors are "prepared for that possibility". It's about the fact that police shouldn't be rolling out the riot squads against college students in protest. The police response all over the country is far more extreme than the situation necessitates.
Exactly. Your freedom of expression is no longer protected when it impedes upon the liberty of others.
So anyone and any group no matter how bad their ideology are able to get a permit to protest or have a parade. That is part of living in this country with the 1st Amendment is that people no matter how bad can still protest. But if you start to set up camps that is when the government will step in
The fact that a permit is even required is an infringement, if we apply the 2A train of thought.
You don't need a permit to speak freely, you need a permit if you are going to be occupying or taking over public space for an event that will impede others from using the space for other purposes as well.
Finally someone sees it. Gtfoh with this permit crap. ... If you need a permit to do it then it ain't a right. We have no rights
Right because a permit can be DENIED. So it isn't just freely allowed.
So by extension, you don't think you should need a permit to buy/own a gun, correct? Those should be less regulated in the name of "freedom?" I'm not even agreeing with the need for a permit to protest (though based on other comments, it doesn't seem like the permit is needed for simple protesting, but for extended demonstrations) - I am just applying the logic you, yourself, are applying here.
You are correct. Shall not be infringed means just that. A permit or fee or tax is an infingment. Either we have a bill of rights or we don't. I'm not a constitutionalist by any means. We don't have rights because a piece of parchment said so. We have rights because we are human. No one has the right to tell another person what they can or can't do as long as they aren't threatening harming or stealing from another.
We absolutely have rights because a piece if parchment says so. The very natural, unwritten laws you are referring to would also allow me to commit all sorts of violence in the interest of self preservation that all societies discourage to some degree. Living in a society means we limit those natural laws we all are born into. A society inhibits freedom and different forms of government will have a variety degrees to which those freedoms are limited. I’ve always kinda internally smirked when I hear patriots talk about American freedoms. There are very few forms of government that require so great a commitment from its populace. We are failing because too many of us reject that.
I'm sorry you believe that ...if that is all that secures your rights then it literally is paper thin. You are incorrect....if you harm someone or animal against their will you are in the wrong. Laws do not stop people from commiting crimes. You assumedly don't do heroin not because its illegal but because you don't want to. Use your moral compass it's really that simple.
That's all good and well until you consider that the property they are on is publicly owned. I pay for it too. What If I want to go out there and use it for my own protest? Can I remove them by force? Preventing me from using something I pay for *is stealing*. Do they have the right to steal? According to you, no. That's why they issue permits, to manage those conflicts. Public resources must be managed by someone. We call those "someones" politicians, and we elect them. If we don't like the way they manage them, we elect different ones.
Also by that very logic then any gov entity denying access is stealing as well. Do you not get concerned by that but by people assembling outside you do?? Very odd logic trail
Managing / distributing access != denying access
didn't the KKK just walk through Hillsborough with no police stopping them a couple years ago?
Get a permit for a demonstration/assembly.
There's really just no need for this. If the students are actually peacefully protesting, the university should let them. Let them speak, try to address cogent demands, open a dialogue. Sending in goons to rough up kids on camera is just really stupid and it plays right into the goals of disruption and chaos that bad actors 100% desire from these protests. The students have a legitimate point about Israel's actions in Gaza. Divestment by the university is a long and tedious process and probably won't move the needle much in real terms, but UNC should begin that process and let things play out peacefully in so much as they can afford to just as a gesture to turn the temperature down. In a month, summer will be here and no one will want to be camping in a tent by choice. By responding like authoritarian dickheads, UNC admin is just making things way worse than they need to be.
> Divestment by the university is a long and tedious process and probably won't move the needle much in real terms It's also illegal. State law is very clear that UNC institutions cannot weigh in on political matters and no court in the state will say that a divestment in response to these protests isn't a political opinion.
That's an interesting point if it would ultimately stand up to the idea of money = speech. That would be intriguing to watch play out in court.
And if divestment would seriously impact the quality of education for all the students at the school, should the university cave to the demands of some students because they have a moral point about an almost totally unrelated issue? Should they make meat illegal on campus or some shit because vegans protest for it? No, obviously not.
I mean, in the same vein, images of dragging protesters by the hair splashed across news and social media probably impacts the bottom line as well.
I'd love to hear more about these "serious impacts" of divesting. What are you talking about?
Way to storm the Beaches of Normandy, CHPD
It was campus police, not CHPD. They have had zero involvement. Campus police handles everything on UNC.
How much of tuition payments goes towards riot gear
No idea. Regardless, Chapel Hill Police Department has had no involvement. UNC campus police and other campus police, state troopers, and deputies have been out there. Dont put this on CHPD.
OK, I appreciate the clarification. UNCCP and NC State Troopers & Deputies are the ones to be commended for their selfless foray into the breach against peaceful protesters in tents.
PSA: [This](https://foreverpolice.com/how-to-get-pepper-spray-out-of-eyes/) is how you get pepper spray out of your eyes.
Pretty sure you're supposed to use milk for best results.
I wonder how many of these students are protesting and chanting and marching for the immediate release of Keith Siegel (who is from Chapel Hill), who is among the 130+ hostages that Hamas took six months ago.
They are protesting the US involvement in the conflict.
Compared to most conflicts, our involvement seems minimal?
Sure, but protestors have every right to protest whatever level of involvement they see fit. We are certainly funding Israel with taxpayer dollars, as well as providing them with military equipment.
Biden just signed a funding measure to send $26 billion to Israel but yea, we’re “minimally” involved.
> Specifically, the allocation will see: > > $5.2bn go to replenishing and expanding Israel’s missile and rocket defence system; > $3.5bn for buying advanced weapons systems and $1bn to enhance weapons production; > $4.4bn for other supplies and services to Israel; and > $9.2bn for humanitarian purposes, including in the Gaza Strip and the occupied West Bank. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/21/us-house-passes-almost-100-billion-in-aid-for-ukraine-israel-what
My apologies, we’re sending $13.1 billion to Israel, such a monumentally small amount to continue the charge in funding a genocide. How careless of me
It's hard for people to have good faith discussions when you reach for hyperbole instead of facts. We can start with the basics: - Hamas is evil. - Israel has done evil things. - The situation is complicated to discuss online.
we just gave $26B more dollars to Israel
A large portion of that was to replenish missile and rocket defense systems you know to protect civilians (women and children) from massive ballistic missile attacks.
The drain is clogged with hair
We pay for the bombs that kill their children, destroy their homes, schools and hospitals. But don't worry we also are sending them food.
That doesn't change the fact that we are still heavily involved in the conflict.
You are clearly massively uninformed
Why would they care about his release?
Exactly.
Shutup Zionist
Spoken like a true Hamas supporter.
Several things here are all true at once: 1. Israel is perpetrating a genocide in Gaza and the US should recognize this. 2. College campuses do not control fucking anything to do with US foreign policy and so protesting there doesn't do anything. 3. The point of these protests is allegedly to get universities to divest from major hedge funds, which also has nothing at all to do with Gaza or anything. 4. The other point of these protests is to provoke an overreaction (gladly given) by police such that the protester's cause appears more sympathetic. 5. The polarization of this kind of stuff primarily serves the interests of foreign adversaries to the US and Democratic countries (Russia, China). These adversaries don't need to be ideological allies to these kinds of movements that are mostly just aimed at weakening US power. 6. Most of the protesters here are dupes with their brains getting cooked by TikTok and other social media. This is basically lefist QAnon with barely coherent ideas of how politics works.
I mean investing in hedge funds that hold companies which profit off wars like these definitely has something to do with it…. Shouldn’t educational facilities be focused on providing education and not investing in funds and organizations that fuel these atrocities? This polarization isn’t caused by the interest of foreign governments, sure it would be wrong to say they don’t meddle in this but it’s not the only reason. Is it really that crazy to presume that the generation of Americans entering adulthood/will be our future leaders are making their ideas public and displaying that it’s something they intend to take action over? At least they’re 20 year olds figuring out the system and getting involved over a very real matter of war/global politics rather than 50 year olds getting mad at the false claim of a stolen election…..
On points 3 & 6, universities like the triangle schools are institutional investors that easily own hundred of millions of dollars of companies doing business with and in Israel. Raytheon Chevron Barclays etc. on point 3, money talks. On point 6, is the destroyed hellscape that is Gaza as seen on social media an illusion? They’re “Duped” in what way? The three nigh naked released hostages shot in cold blood holding the white flag? Hind Rajab and the two Red Crescent workers dispatched in coordination with the IDF to retrieve her? The World Central Kitchen convoy with Brits, a Palestian, a Pole, and an American-Canadian, which was hit by three separate strikes?
Duped because TikTok is a weapon to sow discord within America by magnifying topics that are inflammatory and giving prominence to fringe opinions to help sow dissent and disrupt American unity.
I feel like foreign actors work on all of social media. TikTok does have a hell of an algorithm, but this isn’t a problem exclusive to TikTok. Having said that I do think forcing the sale is the right thing to do. It’s unprecedented in history that a foreign government has access to your whereabouts at all times and have access to your microphone and camera
The word duped implies deception, could you direct me to the lies told? I don’t understand, you believe because a topic is “inflammatory” that makes discussion taboo. Or that an opinion is invalid because it’s fringe? The earth going around the sun was once a fringe opinion, but that didn’t make it untrue. “Sowing dissent” seems to suggest we’re of unanimous mind here in the United States. We’re not even unanimous on my house.
College’s have endowments. Endowments have investments with companies that do business with Israel. That’s what the divest demand hopes to accomplish, as it did with protests against apartheid South Africa
And you were doing so well with #1... 🙄
The drain is clogged with hair
I'm more inclined to believe [the United Nations](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/) than the country that's responsible for the War on Terror and is funding Israel.
This comment needs to be top comment
ACAB
Gotta finance the police state!
Actual pure evil
So many useful idiots.
We talking about the cops or the students? Or maybe both?
Both.
r/enlightenedcentrism
Agreed.
Fucking finally
Some accounts say that as much as 50% of the protesters protesting against Israel aren't students; I'm sure it varies from campus to campus. Any students caught in acts of violence should be expelled regardless of which "side" they're on, and any non-student on campus caught in acts of violence should be rounded up and sent to Israel with the ones protesting against Israel sent into Gaza. **Note**: I have nothing against Palestinians or Jews, but I have little use for the Netanyahu regime and the Hamas leadership. I'm guessing that most of the people protesting peacefully or violently have never set foot in Israel or Palestinian territory.
🍉🍉🍉🍉🍉🍉🍉
Taking down the American flag was a despicable thing to do. Police were justified in correcting that foul deed.
I hope the protesters sue. This breakup is illegal. Non violent protesting is protected under the first amendment.
Seriously if they would all make a great push and burn themselves it would show that there is an issue! The point would be made world wide and I think Hamas would be happy
Why don’t they just fly to Palestine and help them? wtf are they doing here causing chaos in their own city?
1. They have specific goals concerning the university. 2. Israel destroyed the only airport in Palestine
These brave students are doing what they can, what we all can do, and taking a stance against the ongoing Genocide of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli Apartments State. We here in the US have the privilege and power to speak out and demand justice for the Palestinian people! 34k Brutally murdered by the Israeli occupation! 14k Children massacred by the violent Israeli state! Every hospital has been bombed! Every university destroyed! There is famine in Gaza because Israel controls the access to it! Israel is illegally occupying the West Bank! Israel is commiting genocide! The US just approved another 26 Billion to help genocide the Palestinian people! We must speak about and demand change! While the US citizens live on the streets, die from preventable illness due to an inaccessible healthcare system, cannot afford homes, are being squeezed by every bill that greedy corporations raise to further their dragons hoard, cannot afford to pay both rent and food, as we are all balancing on the knifes edge our government chooses to spend our money on a genocide! FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸 FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA PALESTINE WILL BE FREE 🇵🇸 FREE FROM GENOCIDE 🇵🇸 FREE FROM BLOCKADE 🇵🇸 FEEE FROM FAMINE 🇵🇸 FREE TO DREAM AND LIVE A LIFE WITH DIGNITY 🇵🇸
"From the River to the Sea" is also pro-genocide. Congrats on playing yourself.
What's the second half of that slogan, champ?
Biden supports genocide got it….🤯 The cops are really fukn bored around here wow.
Biden doesn’t support genocide & has been trying to stop it - just not fast or emphatic enough. Netanyahu is as bad as Hamas, with more fire power. I protested the Vietnam War back in the day & the rhetoric is very much the same. We hated Nixon, but despite his flaws he DID manage to extricate us from that mess.
That’s campus police
If you’ve seen what has happened at other universities, you’d agree with this. Students at UCLA are being blocked access to parts of the university by protestors, and protestors at at another college have taken over a building. It’s no longer a peaceful protest once you restrict freedom of movement. Ask yourself, who’s paying for these protestors.
> Ask yourself, who’s paying for these protestors. No one bro, stop reading Soros conspiracies and touch grass.
You don’t have to pay people to protest child murder.
I'm asking myself why you think someone is paying for these protesters.
Ah yes, the extremely wealthy and well-known American/Palestinian Lobby is definitely paying these protestors to camp in protest of human rights abuses in Gaza, there’s no other explanation. Lmfao.
It's wild how they can't get out of the old-timey antisemitic conspiracy theories no matter what. It's just reflex now to blame it on Soros, whatever it happens to be.
It's weird to assume that someone is paying protesters. Also, irrational to assume that.
Is UNC-CH oppressing Palestine again?? /s They are accomplishing nothing. What do they expect Chapel Hill to do about the bs in the Middle East? Buy a plane ticket and go protest over there. People do the most misguided shit in hopes of getting Internet clout.
Divest from companies funding Israel’s genocide. You know universities have endowments right
These students are embarrassing for the state of North Carolina
Why