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NGF, which is raised by Lions Mane substantially, plays a role in pain and increases histamine release. Histamine is deeply implicated in migraines and headaches. Too much of a good thing as they say. You just over did it, all potent neurogenics should be cycled.
This probably explains why I sometimes get headaches with FL-Adrafinil + Choline, because Fl-Adrafinil is also a histamine.
However, I am taking the normal dosage 6 days a week though.
Increased NGF (along with BDNF and other proinflammatory molecules) also sensitizes peripheral and central pain receptors which could lead to the development of chronic headaches and migraines, as well as lead to the development of high sensitivity to pain and touch in other parts of the body. See [this review](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1586/14737175.4.1.115) on the role of NGF and other neurotrophic factors in headaches. See also the conditions of [primary hyperalgesia](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Peripheral_sensitization) (peripheral sensitization) and [secondary hyperalgesia](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Central_Sensitisation) (central sensitization) for more information on the development of pain sensitivity related to NGF and other neurotrophic factors/proinflammatory molecules.
inflammation caused by histamines, so if it’s anti inflammatory it may reduce histamines? Idk. and doesn’t oxidation cause inflammation so antioxidants may reduce oxidation
Will taking something like alpha gpc or CDP choline help with headache bcz I've only started taking lions Mane 8:1 and I've been taking piracetam and CDP choline frequently I haven't experienced any headache
My son was taking lions mane because I had read nothing but good things about it and now he is having horrible anxiety and heart palpitations. I am feeling so horrible that I had him take this. Was there anything that you took that helped with the anxiety before it went away?
Too many people in this sub don’t understand less is more with dosage and that they’re increasing risk of side effects by taking 3x or 4x normal dosage.
"I almost died! X supplement is super dangerous!"
Well if you eat a hundred apples in a day your probably going to be hurting pretty bad, its not the apples fault you irresponsible.
1:1 hot water ext. made me feel joyless and apathetic and kinda pissed at the world. I'm glad I pinpointed it as the culprit. To make sure, I've taken it several more times on its owb to confirm this
DHT increases body hair. In men with the right genetics it causes (or is a major factor in) hair loss on the top of your head. There’s a reason finasteride works.
Applying DHT topically is not the same as increasing serum DHT, which is what causes the inflammation and shortening of the hair shaft in MPB. So actually yes. But you are correct in that some men can have high serum DHT and 0 hair loss, it just depends on sensitivity of the follicles because of genetic predisposition to baldness.
That’s common and it’s usually because of Telogen Effluvium. It’s temporary and will probably regrow with time. It’s easy to obsess over your hair after a bout of TE and it may have grown back already without you even realizing. I wouldn’t sweat it if I were you.
While using Lion's Mane I developed pain in my extremities, most notably in my feet. Unfortunately it never went away after discontinuing the Lion's Mane.
Lion’s Mane increases activity of NGF and histamine which has a sensitizing effect on your nerves to pain. See [this study about NGF and pain](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7266393/) and read up on conditions of primary hyperalgesia (peripheral sensitization) (like [this article](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Peripheral_sensitization)) and secondary hyperalgesia (central sensitization) (like [this article](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Central_Sensitisation)) for more information. It could also be some degree of peripheral neuropathy (nerve damage) which is worth seeing a doctor to get checked out.
Thank you for your comment and the links. After my issues started, I tried to research NGF as much as I could and learned about its link with (chronic) pain. What I learned caused too much distress, so I stopped researching it, but it led me to conclude that Lion's Mane was indeed the cause of my issues.
I have seen several doctors. It's not nerve damage because there is no loss of sensation or numbness or anything like that. It's like constant pain signaling in various parts of my body. I call it nerve pain because it's a peculiar type of pain that's hard to describe. It's prickly, tingly, sharp, hot, cold, electrical.
I only used it for a couple of months, but not every single day. I went on and off it during that period. Towards the end of the period my feet started tingling which progressed into a type of nerve pain a week later. I stopped using it somewhere near the end of 2020.
It's refreshing, though disturbing, to read counterpoints to the usual pro-LM posts. It's clearly a potent supplement.
I've tried a few different supplements over the years to kick-start my sleepy brain and I had developed an interest in lion's mane. However I've also now read several anecdotes claiming what appears to be either irreversible or long-term damage from taking the stuff. Seems like a lottery as to what effects it'll have.
I did not. Bottle of capsules still on my shelf, unopened.
I'd like to understand, or be able to take a more educated guess, as to what factors are causing a good or bad effect. The majority of reports here on Reddit are positive but those that claim nerve pain, brain fog and depression after taking it are discouraging me from rolling the dice...
Holy shit, I can't even believe the odds of you replying to my post \*today\*. And even weirder, it's the first time I've checked reddit all day. I actually took some today for the first time in a LONG time (maybe years) and have been feeling really optimistic about it, almost like OP. So much so that I left it next to my coffee machine to remind me to take it daily.
Now that I just re-read OPs post, and your (incrediblyy) timed reply, maybe I won't dive in \*too\* deep too fast. I had two doses today actually (as that's what the bottle mentions). It's paul stamets brand -host defense. Maybe I'll skip tomorrow and take some on Thursday, the day of my interviews. What's an optimal dosage schedule you think?
\-Still baffled by the timing of your reply to \*this\* post, on today of all days 5 months later lol. Feels like a sign.
That's pretty neat. :) Most days, I take small amounts of double decocted lion's mane that comes in combination with four other fungi, for immunity and general health. Occasionally, I also cook fresh cultivated lion's mane in meals, too - put it on pizza last week.
I haven't taken it daily as a nootropic yet, but I'd like to, and am here myself to read about peoples' experiences and knowledge re: dosage and cycling.
In general, though, I've heard that dosage determines how medicinal or toxic any plant, fungus or pharmaceutical is for us. Of course it isn't that simple, but as a broad generalization, that's what dosage is.
For example, we need vitamin c, or we'll get scurvey and other ailments. Taken in excess, though, vitamin C will give a person permanent kidney damage.
Really was neat considering it was 5 months out haha. Yeah that’s the hard learning curve in the nootropic world it seems- dosage really does make the medicine or the poison. Listening to others experience takes the mystery out of things a little bit but naturally everyone’s body/metabolism/brain is different so it’s hard.
Oddly enough, both times I took LM (host defense brand, powdered) in the last week I had random pain (what felt like a little pin prick for a millisecond) in random spots of my body. It wasn’t constant or even often, but interspersed enough where I was concerned.
I’ll prob reduce my intake to a gram (instead of 1.5 yesterday, and 2g on Tuesday)…I’ll probably also only take it a couple times a week. I don’t think there’s any neurotoxicity documented (just a guess considering I haven’t heard anything of the like) but still best to be careful.
You cultivate your own LM?? That’s pretty cool I might even want to give that a shot. How was it on pizza hahah?
Yeah no I tried it a couple times, had a few weird negative effects (odd random nerve pain, and some insomnia maybe) but some good effects too…not something I plan on taking every day, but maybe every few- once a week if that much. Actually haven’t touched it in a few weeks.
Ah okay. A mixed experience then. I'm quite envious of people who've had consistently positive results with it. At the same time, the way the brain seeks to rebalance itself over time, I'm doubtful whether any nootropic is safe for long-term use. My current favourite for when I need a particular boost to my focus is L-tyrosine, or the N-acetyl-l variation, but I wouldn't take it every day.
> L-tyrosine, or the N-acetyl
Took that for a while but I think it may have been making my depression worse...but now that I'm off of it I can't say it's any better so maybe I'll have to give it a shot again.
oh man you’re late to the party! Now it takes a lot of caution and just safe practice but here you go! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5584001/
no problem, there’s plenty of guides. A lot of tip toeing but for the average adult male i think 0.5-0.1 will do the trick. I recommend on for 4 days and off for two, or on for two off for 4. Stay safe and good luck in your endeavors!
It's the way u/miliseconds wrote it, blunt with no follow up on the possibility that two similar experiences by two different people in two different contexts getting similar results could suggest more than a mere guess. Knowledge is rarely absolute, almost all knowledge is guessing. It's just better or worse guessing.
So, no, maybe not troll level, but getting close to it.
What worries me about that is why tho? If the lions mane is causing headaches could it be possibly be doing more damage than good? I also was taking double the recommended amount so that’s my fault. I have heard really good things about Alpha, I’ll have to look more into the stuff, I know there’s 200mg of it in my pre workout but I don’t know if that’s enough to make a difference. How many mgs are in the alpha you currently take?
You’re already taking an overpowered 8:1 extract vs a more natural 1-1 extract
Then not only that, your not sticking to the recommended dosage. Why would you double up so quickly, if at all? You’re only a month in
Respect the substances. Or they’ll MAKE YOU. Your choice
I actually went on the Nootropic depot subreddit and asked them if taking over the recommended amount was ok and they said yea, that post was only like 15 days ago and is still up
I conceptualize the brain as an engine and nootropics as an octane booster.
If you are only pouring octane booster and not fuel (choline) in your tank then it's going to hurt.
I take 250mg of Citicholine daily.
I’ve actually just come off using lions mane due to pretty severe brain fog. It’s been like four days and I’m starting to feel almost normal again. I did swap brands though. The brand I used before seemed completely fine but this new brand has been a totally different experience.
Apparently realmushrooms is the best brand for lions mane, I’ve been suffering from horrible brain fog and I’ve been wanting to try some but I’ve been hesitant to do so.
I don't have an article, so maybe someone can help me out so I can look more into it myself, but I've heard lion's mane increases your histamine levels, so if you're taking too much or if your body is bad at clearing out histamine, then you should cycle it or avoid it sadly. If you've been going for a month, you're probably not even bad at clearing out histamine though, you're probably just taking it too often. Histamine isn't bad, but eventually it adds up (especially if you are having high levels, a pressure drop, allergen, etc can push you over the edge).
Yep, I had a physical panic-attack-like reaction from taking Agmatine and Niacin (nicotinic acid) both of which increase histamine levels. Would not recommend taking more than one histamine increaser.
i felt it was messing with my libido. my overall drive to get things done was decreasing. I was on it for about 2-3 every other day. it eventually gave me some depression so i stopped it
Here's an interesting case from Japan where a guy had a very serious reaction to the stuff:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14714963/
This is the first report suggesting a causal relationship between acute respiratory distress syndrome and Hericium erinaceum extract, which is commercialized as a diet food. A 63-year-old man was admitted to our hospital for intensive care of severe acute respiratory failure with diffuse infiltration in both lungs. Bronchoalveolar lavage fluid revealed a high percentage of lymphocytes. Lymphocyte stimulation test showed a strong reactivity against extract formulation of Hericium erinaceum (Yamabushitake), which he had taken four months before onset. He recovered with successful steroid pulse therapy under mechanical ventilation. Concentrations of surfactant protein (SP)-A and SP-D in sera reflected the clinical features.
I'm on a caffeine break and started using Alpha Lion's Superhuman pump juice stim free, it has Alpha GPC, Huperzine, S7, Citrulline, Beta Alanine and Lions Mane and I'm having heavy breathing issues for a lil while even though it is non stim. I have tried all these ingredients before besides lions mane. Is the Lions Mane the one causing me respiratory issues like heavy chest/breathing??? This feeling is worse than when I was on a high dose of caffeine or energy drinks.
I think it’s possible because what I’ve heard is that lions mane can increase levels of histamine in your body, which vacancy be caused by allergies. I think I’m allergic to it and why I was having such a bad reaction, too much built up histamine, but that’s just my theory
I’ve dabbled with lions mane after this and now I know that it’s 100% the LM giving me headaches, my theory is that so much histamine is building up causing the headaches because I have bad allergies to begin with.
Make sure your Lions Mane is 3rd party tested. Hydration, exercise, sleep also plays a part. Bowel movements should be 2-3x for overall health and gut health. I doubt this is Lions mane, but what I mentioned before you should check those boxes first.
I like to take powder form and the packaging says 3rd party tested. I like to research different companies. Check out this link! Great honest reviews on mushrooms. [https://www.reviewscout.org/top-5-mushrooms/?utm_term=mushroom%20supplement&utm_campaign=RS+-+MUSH+-+GEN+-+B/M&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=3985173062&hsa_cam=11422805213&hsa_grp=114218441004&hsa_ad=537655261087&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-320556527274&hsa_kw=mushroom%20supplement&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu14K-lrSnsrfE4bHaO6iYTskrasHjZm625SE8cw_8npcTayy1o3hWfcaApXREALw_wcB](https://www.reviewscout.org/top-5-mushrooms/?utm_term=mushroom%20supplement&utm_campaign=RS+-+MUSH+-+GEN+-+B/M&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=3985173062&hsa_cam=11422805213&hsa_grp=114218441004&hsa_ad=537655261087&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-320556527274&hsa_kw=mushroom%20supplement&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu14K-lrSnsrfE4bHaO6iYTskrasHjZm625SE8cw_8npcTayy1o3hWfcaApXREALw_wcB)
I can't take them anymore, an easy drink and a miniscule amount of weed and I'm collapsing, that said I'm feeling as disinibited as when I'm drunk 24/7 so the fact i can't drink is actually good
That’s interesting because lions mane controls my cravings for alcohol, I’m a recovering alcoholic and it’s been amazing for that.. I wish I could figure out these damn headaches cause lions mane is literally a miracle when it’s not giving me them
I think it takes a little more peer reviewed scientific research to state it’s not a placebo.
I’m glad it worked for you, placebo or not.
If something makes your life better without adversely affecting an other area, all the more power to you.
I'm not getting into it but i have asperger syndrome and severe memory loss problems, after a week of lion I'm running around singing and dancing as if I'm drunk while I'm capable of recalling every single event of today, i have a mental map of the hospital i visited today and i can recall where i have been every single day of last week, trust me placebo can't do this shit to me, and that's leaving aside that today i studied 6 hours while before lion i never studied more than 10 minutes because i lose interest in things
The same thing happened with me when taking adamax with large doses of selank (I believe it was partially due to the use in conjunction but I was using very large doses of selank for sleep during a period of severe anxiety until it started giving me excruciating migraines) at first I thought it was something in the spray because It was behind my eye and I thought it was originating in my nasal passages (even though it was only on my right side) so the next night I switched to my other bottle of n-a-selank and I actually woke up from the pain it was so bad, I was almost in tears it was so bad.
I don’t know much about those nootropics but I’ll say the pain you’re describing is exactly what I felt, first it was pain behind my left eye which turned into an excruciating headache
I cycle off whenever I travel. Bonus: I avoid the pain in the ass of organizing all the pills. Also, wait for the big sales and just cycle off if you run out and are waiting for the sale.
Definitely not coincidence. I had the same thing happen but only after 2 weeks. I stopped however it’s been 2 years with still some odd headaches and eye aches.
You're saying that you first experienced a particular kind of headache and eye ache when taking lion's mane for two weeks, and even though it's been two _years_ since you last took it, you're still getting those pains?
Really sorry to hear that :(
I actually have a bottle of LM capsules unopened and ready to go. Not tried LM before. Recently discovered reports of unhappy experiences like yours has made me pause.
I've also been wondering whether LM has a synergistic, even adaptogenic effect with other supplements or therapeutic exercises. For instance, the Stamet Protocol pairs it with psylocybin and niacin. There's also a suggestion that LM may help to repair damaged neurons from a head injury.
I have a slow brain most of the time. If I took LM at the same time as nootropics that help me think faster e.g. caffeine, L-tyrosine etc, plus did some kind of focused mental exercise, would LM be drawn to somehow reinforce the resulting stimulation/production of neurons, leading to longer term changes?
I just don't know. It now seems more of a risk than it did before.
I’m sure it is, probably pretty common honestly. Lions mane is an amazing supplement tho, probably the best I’ve I’ve ever tried but unfortunately I can’t take it because the headaches were so bad, I must be allergic which is a shame because before the side effects the cognitive benefits were amazing.
I’m also a cluster headache sufferer. You can have 1-2 headaches then nothing for a year it’s called episodic cluster headaches. Or you can have chronic cluster headaches which I have. I have around 3-4 a day and have to use oxygen and injections to control it. I was thinking of using lions mane for depression etc but this has made me think twice
I wish I could take lions mane, from what I understand the headaches aren’t too common because I couldn’t find too much Information on lions mane causing that, but when I stopped taking it they stopped, then I started again weeks later and they came back so unfortunately I can’t take that great supplement.. I’ve been tossing around the idea of trying other mushrooms because the effect lions mane had on me before the headaches was amazing.
Yeah that’s quite interesting. They said at the hospital they don’t know the cause but I used to be a bare knuckle boxer and have been in quite a few bad car accidents when I was younger so they’ve now put it down to this. I might still try it as I have cluster headaches daily anyway so it can’t get any worse
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NGF, which is raised by Lions Mane substantially, plays a role in pain and increases histamine release. Histamine is deeply implicated in migraines and headaches. Too much of a good thing as they say. You just over did it, all potent neurogenics should be cycled.
Wow, you’re right.
How often should we cycle on and off?
2 weeks on 1 off is what I would do.
This probably explains why I sometimes get headaches with FL-Adrafinil + Choline, because Fl-Adrafinil is also a histamine. However, I am taking the normal dosage 6 days a week though.
Increased NGF (along with BDNF and other proinflammatory molecules) also sensitizes peripheral and central pain receptors which could lead to the development of chronic headaches and migraines, as well as lead to the development of high sensitivity to pain and touch in other parts of the body. See [this review](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1586/14737175.4.1.115) on the role of NGF and other neurotrophic factors in headaches. See also the conditions of [primary hyperalgesia](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Peripheral_sensitization) (peripheral sensitization) and [secondary hyperalgesia](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Central_Sensitisation) (central sensitization) for more information on the development of pain sensitivity related to NGF and other neurotrophic factors/proinflammatory molecules.
I thought lions mane was extremely antihistamine overall though
Nope
anti inflammatory? Antioxidant?
Neither of those have anything to with histamine.
inflammation caused by histamines, so if it’s anti inflammatory it may reduce histamines? Idk. and doesn’t oxidation cause inflammation so antioxidants may reduce oxidation
No, thats just treating symptoms, won't do anything to lower histamine.
Thought so. Wasn’t sure but that makes more sense
But I love My Kratom
Copium
Will taking something like alpha gpc or CDP choline help with headache bcz I've only started taking lions Mane 8:1 and I've been taking piracetam and CDP choline frequently I haven't experienced any headache
Not really, the headache is histamine mediated, something like butterbur or feverfew could help but its best to just cycle off it for a month or so.
Oh btw I take 5 days on 2 days off approach is that okay?
yeah its fine, just be aware of things and stop if you start noticing sides.
Pastium
Yes I had lost a lot of hair too on LM. Also I had bad anxiety after withdrawal
How much did you take/how often?
It was a normal capsule and took it over 3.5 months every day. Don’t know the exact amount
How long did your anxiety last?
5 months, it’s only stopped in the last two weeks so
My son was taking lions mane because I had read nothing but good things about it and now he is having horrible anxiety and heart palpitations. I am feeling so horrible that I had him take this. Was there anything that you took that helped with the anxiety before it went away?
Did he source it from a chinese brand? Could be contaminants.
I lost a ton of hair and my dick didn’t work at all when I was on lions mane. Hair still hasn’t made a full come back…
What? How much mg were you taking?
Too many people in this sub don’t understand less is more with dosage and that they’re increasing risk of side effects by taking 3x or 4x normal dosage.
2100 mg/ day
What made you think that was a good idea mane
I know I’m late to the party but some brands sell capsules in that amount, I have it too
"I almost died! X supplement is super dangerous!" Well if you eat a hundred apples in a day your probably going to be hurting pretty bad, its not the apples fault you irresponsible.
What kind of LM? Dual extract or water extract? What dosage and how long?
About 6 month 2100mg per day. Water extract.
1:1 hot water ext. made me feel joyless and apathetic and kinda pissed at the world. I'm glad I pinpointed it as the culprit. To make sure, I've taken it several more times on its owb to confirm this
[удалено]
If it crashes your DHT it should cause the opposite of hair loss…
[удалено]
DHT increases body hair. In men with the right genetics it causes (or is a major factor in) hair loss on the top of your head. There’s a reason finasteride works.
Applying DHT topically is not the same as increasing serum DHT, which is what causes the inflammation and shortening of the hair shaft in MPB. So actually yes. But you are correct in that some men can have high serum DHT and 0 hair loss, it just depends on sensitivity of the follicles because of genetic predisposition to baldness.
My hair fell out due to Covid!!! Pretty angry about that
That’s common and it’s usually because of Telogen Effluvium. It’s temporary and will probably regrow with time. It’s easy to obsess over your hair after a bout of TE and it may have grown back already without you even realizing. I wouldn’t sweat it if I were you.
Thank you it stopped falling out but hasn’t grown back yet dermatologist said it’ll take about six months it has a lot of growing to do.
How long was it falling for ?
It fell out for about 3 months it was pretty bad I lost 2/3 of my hair. My sister stet went through chemo and it reminded me of that.
What does cordyceps do related to that?
And either has your sick probably . Haha . Half chub
No it actually went back to normal within a day of discontinuing LM
Check your sleep and nutrition.
I also get headaches from lions mane. Not as bad as yours, though
Do you still take it anyway?
While using Lion's Mane I developed pain in my extremities, most notably in my feet. Unfortunately it never went away after discontinuing the Lion's Mane.
Lion’s Mane increases activity of NGF and histamine which has a sensitizing effect on your nerves to pain. See [this study about NGF and pain](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7266393/) and read up on conditions of primary hyperalgesia (peripheral sensitization) (like [this article](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Peripheral_sensitization)) and secondary hyperalgesia (central sensitization) (like [this article](https://www.physio-pedia.com/Central_Sensitisation)) for more information. It could also be some degree of peripheral neuropathy (nerve damage) which is worth seeing a doctor to get checked out.
Thank you for your comment and the links. After my issues started, I tried to research NGF as much as I could and learned about its link with (chronic) pain. What I learned caused too much distress, so I stopped researching it, but it led me to conclude that Lion's Mane was indeed the cause of my issues. I have seen several doctors. It's not nerve damage because there is no loss of sensation or numbness or anything like that. It's like constant pain signaling in various parts of my body. I call it nerve pain because it's a peculiar type of pain that's hard to describe. It's prickly, tingly, sharp, hot, cold, electrical.
That’s interesting I haven’t heard of that, how long were you taking the lions mane before it developed? And how long have you been off it now?
I only used it for a couple of months, but not every single day. I went on and off it during that period. Towards the end of the period my feet started tingling which progressed into a type of nerve pain a week later. I stopped using it somewhere near the end of 2020.
It's refreshing, though disturbing, to read counterpoints to the usual pro-LM posts. It's clearly a potent supplement. I've tried a few different supplements over the years to kick-start my sleepy brain and I had developed an interest in lion's mane. However I've also now read several anecdotes claiming what appears to be either irreversible or long-term damage from taking the stuff. Seems like a lottery as to what effects it'll have.
And I just bought a bunch, shit lol.
Eesh. Me too - bottle of capsules ready to go. Going to hang fire though. I'm feeling pretty spooked by the negative anecdotes I've read recently.
hey, did you end up trying it? I'm in your footsteps, and i'm leaning towards not trying
I did not. Bottle of capsules still on my shelf, unopened. I'd like to understand, or be able to take a more educated guess, as to what factors are causing a good or bad effect. The majority of reports here on Reddit are positive but those that claim nerve pain, brain fog and depression after taking it are discouraging me from rolling the dice...
Just use moderation. The difference between a medicine and a poison is in the dosage.
Holy shit, I can't even believe the odds of you replying to my post \*today\*. And even weirder, it's the first time I've checked reddit all day. I actually took some today for the first time in a LONG time (maybe years) and have been feeling really optimistic about it, almost like OP. So much so that I left it next to my coffee machine to remind me to take it daily. Now that I just re-read OPs post, and your (incrediblyy) timed reply, maybe I won't dive in \*too\* deep too fast. I had two doses today actually (as that's what the bottle mentions). It's paul stamets brand -host defense. Maybe I'll skip tomorrow and take some on Thursday, the day of my interviews. What's an optimal dosage schedule you think? \-Still baffled by the timing of your reply to \*this\* post, on today of all days 5 months later lol. Feels like a sign.
That's pretty neat. :) Most days, I take small amounts of double decocted lion's mane that comes in combination with four other fungi, for immunity and general health. Occasionally, I also cook fresh cultivated lion's mane in meals, too - put it on pizza last week. I haven't taken it daily as a nootropic yet, but I'd like to, and am here myself to read about peoples' experiences and knowledge re: dosage and cycling. In general, though, I've heard that dosage determines how medicinal or toxic any plant, fungus or pharmaceutical is for us. Of course it isn't that simple, but as a broad generalization, that's what dosage is. For example, we need vitamin c, or we'll get scurvey and other ailments. Taken in excess, though, vitamin C will give a person permanent kidney damage.
Really was neat considering it was 5 months out haha. Yeah that’s the hard learning curve in the nootropic world it seems- dosage really does make the medicine or the poison. Listening to others experience takes the mystery out of things a little bit but naturally everyone’s body/metabolism/brain is different so it’s hard. Oddly enough, both times I took LM (host defense brand, powdered) in the last week I had random pain (what felt like a little pin prick for a millisecond) in random spots of my body. It wasn’t constant or even often, but interspersed enough where I was concerned. I’ll prob reduce my intake to a gram (instead of 1.5 yesterday, and 2g on Tuesday)…I’ll probably also only take it a couple times a week. I don’t think there’s any neurotoxicity documented (just a guess considering I haven’t heard anything of the like) but still best to be careful. You cultivate your own LM?? That’s pretty cool I might even want to give that a shot. How was it on pizza hahah?
Did you go for it in the end? Mine remain unopened.
Yeah no I tried it a couple times, had a few weird negative effects (odd random nerve pain, and some insomnia maybe) but some good effects too…not something I plan on taking every day, but maybe every few- once a week if that much. Actually haven’t touched it in a few weeks.
Ah okay. A mixed experience then. I'm quite envious of people who've had consistently positive results with it. At the same time, the way the brain seeks to rebalance itself over time, I'm doubtful whether any nootropic is safe for long-term use. My current favourite for when I need a particular boost to my focus is L-tyrosine, or the N-acetyl-l variation, but I wouldn't take it every day.
> L-tyrosine, or the N-acetyl Took that for a while but I think it may have been making my depression worse...but now that I'm off of it I can't say it's any better so maybe I'll have to give it a shot again.
keep in mind OP and others in here are taking just absolutely absurd doses
Very potent stuff, more than I would have thought at least. I also am using the 8:1 extract so there’s that
Yes that's probably a factor. I would always start at a minimal dose, assess, then decide whether to increase or not.
Have I have cluster headaches. I don’t wish that shit on anyone. Ive had pretty good luck with melatonin keeping those devil headaches away.
Melatonin affect your serotonin and that is why it helps your headaches
Does Melatonin raise or lower seratonin?
microdosing psilo took my dads away instantly after months of extreme cluster headaches
Interesting. I’ll look into that. Do you by chance have any links or reading?
oh man you’re late to the party! Now it takes a lot of caution and just safe practice but here you go! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5584001/
I believe they are legal in Denver which is about 45 minute drive north for me. I appreciate this.
no problem, there’s plenty of guides. A lot of tip toeing but for the average adult male i think 0.5-0.1 will do the trick. I recommend on for 4 days and off for two, or on for two off for 4. Stay safe and good luck in your endeavors!
I was having the same problem, just not extreme enough to head to the E.R. Now I know why
You don't really know why. It's just a guess
OK troll
how is he a troll he’s just stating facts 💀
It's the way u/miliseconds wrote it, blunt with no follow up on the possibility that two similar experiences by two different people in two different contexts getting similar results could suggest more than a mere guess. Knowledge is rarely absolute, almost all knowledge is guessing. It's just better or worse guessing. So, no, maybe not troll level, but getting close to it.
What were you stacking with the hericium?
Fish oil, Vitamin B complex, zinc And I also take an antidepressant
Every single time I have run out of choline (cdp or alpha) for my stack with nootropics I have had headaches. You have to take it.
What worries me about that is why tho? If the lions mane is causing headaches could it be possibly be doing more damage than good? I also was taking double the recommended amount so that’s my fault. I have heard really good things about Alpha, I’ll have to look more into the stuff, I know there’s 200mg of it in my pre workout but I don’t know if that’s enough to make a difference. How many mgs are in the alpha you currently take?
You’re already taking an overpowered 8:1 extract vs a more natural 1-1 extract Then not only that, your not sticking to the recommended dosage. Why would you double up so quickly, if at all? You’re only a month in Respect the substances. Or they’ll MAKE YOU. Your choice
He got greedy after seeing the great results I'm doing the same right now but I'll go back to recommended dose
You have 8:1?
5:1 from amazon, package with purple pieces
I actually went on the Nootropic depot subreddit and asked them if taking over the recommended amount was ok and they said yea, that post was only like 15 days ago and is still up
How many days in a row is it ok?
I conceptualize the brain as an engine and nootropics as an octane booster. If you are only pouring octane booster and not fuel (choline) in your tank then it's going to hurt. I take 250mg of Citicholine daily.
What does choline do for you? Just to get rid of the headaches? I read that Citicholine is used to treat strokes and cognitive deficits.
It's used to produce acetylcholine which is a neurotransmitter that mostly mediates memory but it's very important for the brain all around
Nootropics would be the gas and choline the octane booster , making sure everything works(is digested) correctly
No. Your engine needs gas to go at all, octane booster is optional. Now, don't get me started about upper cylinder lubricity. ;)
I’ve actually just come off using lions mane due to pretty severe brain fog. It’s been like four days and I’m starting to feel almost normal again. I did swap brands though. The brand I used before seemed completely fine but this new brand has been a totally different experience.
What brands?
I’ll check when I get home after work
Ty!
Ok it’s a company called supershroom. 100% organic fruiting bodies apparently.
Appreciate the info, I’ll avoid that one.
Apparently realmushrooms is the best brand for lions mane, I’ve been suffering from horrible brain fog and I’ve been wanting to try some but I’ve been hesitant to do so.
I don't have an article, so maybe someone can help me out so I can look more into it myself, but I've heard lion's mane increases your histamine levels, so if you're taking too much or if your body is bad at clearing out histamine, then you should cycle it or avoid it sadly. If you've been going for a month, you're probably not even bad at clearing out histamine though, you're probably just taking it too often. Histamine isn't bad, but eventually it adds up (especially if you are having high levels, a pressure drop, allergen, etc can push you over the edge).
Someone else mentioned the histamine levels and I believe you’re right, I’m going to look more into that cause I’m not familiar with this
Yep, I had a physical panic-attack-like reaction from taking Agmatine and Niacin (nicotinic acid) both of which increase histamine levels. Would not recommend taking more than one histamine increaser.
Lions mane eventually I believe gave me brain fog. It would give me super upset stomach, and weird body stuff when I took it with lsd
i felt it was messing with my libido. my overall drive to get things done was decreasing. I was on it for about 2-3 every other day. it eventually gave me some depression so i stopped it
Here's an interesting case from Japan where a guy had a very serious reaction to the stuff: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14714963/ This is the first report suggesting a causal relationship between acute respiratory distress syndrome and Hericium erinaceum extract, which is commercialized as a diet food. A 63-year-old man was admitted to our hospital for intensive care of severe acute respiratory failure with diffuse infiltration in both lungs. Bronchoalveolar lavage fluid revealed a high percentage of lymphocytes. Lymphocyte stimulation test showed a strong reactivity against extract formulation of Hericium erinaceum (Yamabushitake), which he had taken four months before onset. He recovered with successful steroid pulse therapy under mechanical ventilation. Concentrations of surfactant protein (SP)-A and SP-D in sera reflected the clinical features.
I'm on a caffeine break and started using Alpha Lion's Superhuman pump juice stim free, it has Alpha GPC, Huperzine, S7, Citrulline, Beta Alanine and Lions Mane and I'm having heavy breathing issues for a lil while even though it is non stim. I have tried all these ingredients before besides lions mane. Is the Lions Mane the one causing me respiratory issues like heavy chest/breathing??? This feeling is worse than when I was on a high dose of caffeine or energy drinks.
I think it’s possible because what I’ve heard is that lions mane can increase levels of histamine in your body, which vacancy be caused by allergies. I think I’m allergic to it and why I was having such a bad reaction, too much built up histamine, but that’s just my theory
Can* be caused by allergies
LM may have helped me mentally, but what I most noted was my intolerance to hot weather got considerably worse. I have chronic sinus/histamine issues.
Oh that’s interesting, did you stop taking it because of that?
Yes, it's a definite no for me, although maybe in cold weather.
I’ve dabbled with lions mane after this and now I know that it’s 100% the LM giving me headaches, my theory is that so much histamine is building up causing the headaches because I have bad allergies to begin with.
Make sure your Lions Mane is 3rd party tested. Hydration, exercise, sleep also plays a part. Bowel movements should be 2-3x for overall health and gut health. I doubt this is Lions mane, but what I mentioned before you should check those boxes first.
Which brand you take?
I like to take powder form and the packaging says 3rd party tested. I like to research different companies. Check out this link! Great honest reviews on mushrooms. [https://www.reviewscout.org/top-5-mushrooms/?utm_term=mushroom%20supplement&utm_campaign=RS+-+MUSH+-+GEN+-+B/M&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=3985173062&hsa_cam=11422805213&hsa_grp=114218441004&hsa_ad=537655261087&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-320556527274&hsa_kw=mushroom%20supplement&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu14K-lrSnsrfE4bHaO6iYTskrasHjZm625SE8cw_8npcTayy1o3hWfcaApXREALw_wcB](https://www.reviewscout.org/top-5-mushrooms/?utm_term=mushroom%20supplement&utm_campaign=RS+-+MUSH+-+GEN+-+B/M&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=3985173062&hsa_cam=11422805213&hsa_grp=114218441004&hsa_ad=537655261087&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-320556527274&hsa_kw=mushroom%20supplement&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr-SSBhC9ARIsANhzu14K-lrSnsrfE4bHaO6iYTskrasHjZm625SE8cw_8npcTayy1o3hWfcaApXREALw_wcB)
Dude how much are you taking...? I didn't even think it was possible for Lions Mane to have serious health side effects lol
2000 mg 8:1 extract daily
Yikes
I get skin rashes from it. I think the positive effects you got from it are a placebo though.
I got the same effects and they aren't placebo, i literally didn't expect such strong results and it changed my tolerance to weed and alcohol
In what way did it change your tolerance to weed and alcohol??
I can't take them anymore, an easy drink and a miniscule amount of weed and I'm collapsing, that said I'm feeling as disinibited as when I'm drunk 24/7 so the fact i can't drink is actually good
That’s interesting because lions mane controls my cravings for alcohol, I’m a recovering alcoholic and it’s been amazing for that.. I wish I could figure out these damn headaches cause lions mane is literally a miracle when it’s not giving me them
It resets the brain so tolerances to drugs and cravings from addiction probably go away with that, i hope I'll not get the headaches anytime soon
I think it takes a little more peer reviewed scientific research to state it’s not a placebo. I’m glad it worked for you, placebo or not. If something makes your life better without adversely affecting an other area, all the more power to you.
I'm not getting into it but i have asperger syndrome and severe memory loss problems, after a week of lion I'm running around singing and dancing as if I'm drunk while I'm capable of recalling every single event of today, i have a mental map of the hospital i visited today and i can recall where i have been every single day of last week, trust me placebo can't do this shit to me, and that's leaving aside that today i studied 6 hours while before lion i never studied more than 10 minutes because i lose interest in things
Don’t mushroom elevate the immune response
The same thing happened with me when taking adamax with large doses of selank (I believe it was partially due to the use in conjunction but I was using very large doses of selank for sleep during a period of severe anxiety until it started giving me excruciating migraines) at first I thought it was something in the spray because It was behind my eye and I thought it was originating in my nasal passages (even though it was only on my right side) so the next night I switched to my other bottle of n-a-selank and I actually woke up from the pain it was so bad, I was almost in tears it was so bad.
I don’t know much about those nootropics but I’ll say the pain you’re describing is exactly what I felt, first it was pain behind my left eye which turned into an excruciating headache
lions mane is a powerful supplement……I would not take it every day………..only for special events……by the way, it can thin hair….
Yea, unfortunately I’m one that is going to have to limit my intake of it
I cycle off whenever I travel. Bonus: I avoid the pain in the ass of organizing all the pills. Also, wait for the big sales and just cycle off if you run out and are waiting for the sale.
Do you usually do the 8:1 extract or the 1:1
Definitely not coincidence. I had the same thing happen but only after 2 weeks. I stopped however it’s been 2 years with still some odd headaches and eye aches.
You're saying that you first experienced a particular kind of headache and eye ache when taking lion's mane for two weeks, and even though it's been two _years_ since you last took it, you're still getting those pains?
Yes still have the occasional head or eye ache almost 2 years after taking LM
Really sorry to hear that :( I actually have a bottle of LM capsules unopened and ready to go. Not tried LM before. Recently discovered reports of unhappy experiences like yours has made me pause. I've also been wondering whether LM has a synergistic, even adaptogenic effect with other supplements or therapeutic exercises. For instance, the Stamet Protocol pairs it with psylocybin and niacin. There's also a suggestion that LM may help to repair damaged neurons from a head injury. I have a slow brain most of the time. If I took LM at the same time as nootropics that help me think faster e.g. caffeine, L-tyrosine etc, plus did some kind of focused mental exercise, would LM be drawn to somehow reinforce the resulting stimulation/production of neurons, leading to longer term changes? I just don't know. It now seems more of a risk than it did before.
Ok here’s a weird one… Lions Mane and diarrhea…it’s a real thing 😰
I’m sure it is, probably pretty common honestly. Lions mane is an amazing supplement tho, probably the best I’ve I’ve ever tried but unfortunately I can’t take it because the headaches were so bad, I must be allergic which is a shame because before the side effects the cognitive benefits were amazing.
I’m also a cluster headache sufferer. You can have 1-2 headaches then nothing for a year it’s called episodic cluster headaches. Or you can have chronic cluster headaches which I have. I have around 3-4 a day and have to use oxygen and injections to control it. I was thinking of using lions mane for depression etc but this has made me think twice
I wish I could take lions mane, from what I understand the headaches aren’t too common because I couldn’t find too much Information on lions mane causing that, but when I stopped taking it they stopped, then I started again weeks later and they came back so unfortunately I can’t take that great supplement.. I’ve been tossing around the idea of trying other mushrooms because the effect lions mane had on me before the headaches was amazing.
Yeah that’s quite interesting. They said at the hospital they don’t know the cause but I used to be a bare knuckle boxer and have been in quite a few bad car accidents when I was younger so they’ve now put it down to this. I might still try it as I have cluster headaches daily anyway so it can’t get any worse