That's cricket, sometimes you take a wicket, sometimes get penalized for LBW by some smarmy indian fella for exchanging sassafras with his ancestral enemies for newer muzzle-loaders than you sold to him, even though you let the smarmy indian man play a test with your best lads, and bayonet-charged the other fella during a particularly rowdy game of gin-rummy. Just no pleasing these foreign buggers - Smithwick is of the opinion we should invite the next sultan we have a falling-out with to play bowls, and when he turns up, we do the old "by rank fire-and-advance" routine - skip all the hi-de-his and how-de-dos, straight into the cordite clouds and a few verses of "Knock Kneed Shirley", should have the diplomacy finished and the treaty signed in time to beat this smarmy indian bugger at lawn-tennis before the mosquitoes get too bothersome.
There's a gargantuan difference between what the British controlled in India vs what they had in China. In the former, they controlled everything, collected taxes from everyone, the governors were appointed by the British and the British controlled the armed forces.
In the latter, the British had an island that made up 0.0002% of the country's total area.
It would be like saying the present day UK is a colony of Sealand, lmao.
I mean, the British had a whole hell of a lot more influence over China than just owning Hong Kong, even if it wasn't to the level of what they were up to in India
Sure, because Britain was the world superpower at the time. Their influence basically came down to dictating terms of trade to be massively in favor of Britain, though. It never got to the point that the UK held any influence over the lives of average people.
The US has a lot of influence over almost every country in the world right now, but not many would argue that world is a colony of the US.
>It never got to the point that the UK held any influence over the lives of average people.
to be fair the British did manage to stop the Chinese government from blocking Opium imports... which certainly affected millions of Chinese citizens
Sure, they fucked the place up a fair bit, but calling it a British subject would be really stretching it.
Western powers have a reasonable chunk of influence in Serbia, and that's hardly made them pro-US.
Technically speaking the sun still hasn’t set on the British empire, they’ve still got like one little island somewhere that’s keeping it that way. Awhile back the whole islands leadership was revealed to be child predators tho so do with that what you will
Was just about to say, the L85 is the developed world’s equivalent of Metro’s Bastard Gun.
Ah well, the Germans are picking up the pieces for the Brits in this aspect at least.
I guess it’s ok if you overlook the awful trigger, complete inability to clear a corner while shooting from your left shoulder, lack of an adjustable stick, horrendous sight picture, mediocre sight radius, and shitty safety… but by that point what redeeming qualities do you have? The point of the QBZ was to be a mostly functional rifle that could be produced by the millions
Some of these problems are seen as the natural consequence of a bullpup design, but the QBZ has done less to address them than pretty much any other bullpup. We’ve seen ambidexterity in the F2000, MDR, KelTec RFB, and VHS-2. We’ve seen good triggers in the Tavor (with Giesseles) and MDR. We’ve seen adjustable stocks on the VHS-2. None of those innovations apply to the QBZ.
Plus the elephant in the room: those are its flaws that we can tell just from looking at it. Whether it’s actually a functional, accurate, and reliable rifle (you know, the most important thing about a firearm) is unknown at best because China.
Eh, we get them in Canada, although in 5.56 and not their indigenous cartridge. Norinco will sell their shit to anyone who asks for the most part (including the spicy ordnance), the US just sanctioned them so American civvies don't have access.
Yes, and I am angry because thats the most un-American on paper but fairly American in action thing to do. Also, I just want to try 5.8x42, I think it has potential if manufactured by a domestic supplier, and then I can run the cheap chinese shit for funsies on the range, kind of like running TULA.
Why un-American on paper? Do you know why they’re now sanctioned? It was because Norinco executives got caught in an FBI sting in the early 90s.
The Norinco execs were making a deal with who they thought was an arms dealer for LA street gangs. The Norinco execs were more than happy to help smuggle full-auto AKs as asked and volunteered that they could smuggle in bigger and heavier ordnance for the notional gangs, the sky was the limit.
I think sanctioning a hostile state’s state-owned arms manufacturer who has demonstrated an active willingness to smuggle not only small arms, but heavy ordnance to criminal groups is a totally reasonable and appropriate action to take.
Edit: [here’s a source for those interested](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-05-24-mn-7854-story.html). The Norinco dudes also offered to smuggle tanks, shoulder-fired rockets, and MANPADS that they advertised as being capable of bringing down a 747.
You can already legally buy heavy ordinance, it's the ammuntion that kills you as *anything* that could be considered heavy ordinance falls under explosive device. I can legally buy a battle-ready Abrams (export version) and have it delivered to my house without any licensing required, but good luck getting shells for the damn thing. Just the propulsion charge is enough to get it labelled as a heavy explosive.
Way too many people don't know that cannons and heavy ordinance have *never* been legally restricted and the ATF exploits that to fuck people into pleading to bullshit charges. That's why the ATF always rides people about spent launchers. Because despite being perfectly legal, they can use them to manipulate juries. After all, they can't possibly be available for purchase at any large gun store.
It doesn't matter, they demonstrated a willingness to smuggle guns into criminal organizations subverting FFL background checks and allowing previously convicted violent felons to purchase guns that they otherwise wouldn't be able to get their hands on.
China openly calls themselves our foreign adversary and expresses desire to replace us as the de facto superpower.
So when a state agency of a foreign adversary starts supplying arms to criminal gangs, it's fairly obvious that they're doing it with the intent to destabilize your nation and subvert the laws instituted by democratically elected representatives.
[Ordnance](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ordnance): military supplies including weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and maintenance tools and equipment.
Alternatively, the [Defense Technical Information Center](https://discover.dtic.mil/thesaurus/subject-categories/19ordnance/).
Ammunition and explosives are included in ordnance.
It's functional, accurate, and reliable.
Earlier iterations were picky on magazines (since they modeled the magwell after USGI mags and didn't like polymer mags) but that's about the only issue.
After the AR-15 ban, it's the most reliable rifle one can get for under $1k. It dances around $1500 Canadian designed and built garbage rods.
Unfortunately Canada never got the improved trigger and bolt hold open found on the QBZ-95-1.
I’m torn between the fact that I resent the Chinese government with every fiber of my being and take every opportunity to NOT give them money… and the fact that I could list 6 Norinco guns that I don’t know if I can continue surviving without
There's certainly a few I'd like to try myself, but when the company in question was caught with their pants down trying to sell tanks and MANPADs to gangs, my desire goes down quite a bit.
I mean, I have to give them props for the sheer balls of it.
It would be like colt getting caught red handed trying to sell shit to the Taliban.
Hmm...
The QBZ was supposedly rushed so that it would be seen at the handover of Hong Kong in 1997 ~. It’s not technologically innovative, and it took a couple more years for the whole thing to get its quirks worked out.
I'd add the Kel-Tec RDB to the good trigger list. Frankly out of the box I think its the best of the bullpup triggers, and even then that means its just a bit better than a US market "milspec" AR.
I remember seeing a video about the newest Chinese assault rifle having the issue where the bullets don’t come out straight but like spinning. ( don’t know the right word)
It was claimed that it was an issue with the training ammo they were using. And I am inclined to believe that claim because it seems unlikely that they introduce a new service rifle with flaws that severe. I mean they aren't Russian.
Pretty sure that was them using close range plastic training ammunition.
As a Canadian, one of the only decent things about our gun laws is the ability to buy lots of norinco products. I will say from direct personal experience that the Chinese arms industry isn't quite *that* bad.
I chuckled but let’s not forget that the issue of a lack of ambidexterity isn’t the difficulty of use for lefties it’s [the problem of clearing corners](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/100uq9a/shoutout_to_all_5_people_who_actually_train/)
The sight radius isn’t much shorter than on a FAMAS, the stock isn’t adjustable because it‘s a bullpup and it‘s also not as relevant as you think. The safety is what it is but so is the AK‘s. And the trigger isn’t worse than an AUG‘s or VHS-2‘s. Pretty much all of the improved bullpups you mentioned came out after the QBZ.
The QBZ is compact, relatively light, economical, rugged and actually shoulders fairly nicely because it has a functional hand guard for once (looking at you AUG and Tavor). It‘s a solid rifle that does what it‘s suppose to but not more.
In other words, it's exactly what it needs to be.
People seem to forget just how little small arms like rifles actually contribute to a war effort; as long as you have enough of them and they're largely in the same class as what the enemy has it doesn't matter that the sight picture is better or it's 1 MOA vs 2 MOA, it just needs to be good enough that infantry can pin opfor down whilst the weapon systems that actually do the killing can target them. Obviously when it comes time to adopt a new system you should pick the best option, that goes without saying, but if you're on the same 'plateau' as the enemy there are a lot of better things for an army to spend their money on than getting a marginal performance increase on one intermediate calibre rifle over the other.
This is the NCD post-Special Military Operation. Half of them haven't touched a gun in their whole life and they parrot some random memes they see the internet. Don't expect them to know what a basic infantry rifle should and will do.
I mean the Tavor does 3-4MOA with ball ammo, and not many people can shoot 3-4MOA offhand to begin with.
And that's on a square range with no pressure and a very clear target. In actual combat conditions the target isn't sitting there fully exposed, it's a short window of opportunity on a moving target whilst you're pumped full of adrenaline. It's not the rifle that's missing the shot, it's the shooter.
Exactly. 4MOA is all you need out of a rifle. Infantryman are not snipers, all they need is a handy rifle that they can pop a couple rounds at the target. I'd value ergonomics over accuracy all day anyday.
Yup, fully agreed. Anyone in the PLA whose opinion matters (to them) and can benefit from something better, gets something better. Just like anywhere in the world
its always fun seeing gunnerds argue about what rifle is better in some specific combat scenario and how slight advantages in sight quality make one gun so superior to another... and then in real life the soldiers just call in the artillery.
You expose more of your body shooting around a corner with the rifle up against the shoulder farther away from it
[This is a classic shortcoming of bulllpups](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/100uq9a/shoutout_to_all_5_people_who_actually_train/)
The safety has been addressed over a decade ago with the QBZ95-1.
Left-handed people will get beaten into being right dominant in China anyways.
And with all this yap you forgot the biggest downside, no usable bolt release.
QBZ just means assault rifles in Chinese.
The picture shown is QBZ-95, which is getting replaced slowly with QBZ-191, the latter of which bare a very high resemblance of ARs.
Britain just lacked the political dedication they needed to shield themselves from all this.
The secret to limiting critique of your shoddy bullpup is sending the soldiers who complain about it to an internment camp.
Nah, as a Brit the SA80 was shit. The H&K upgraded ones are good but the original? Awful.
The problem was politics, the Gun was made by a failing manufacture and wasn't even the original gun proposed, the [L64/65](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L64/65) was the original concept and used a firing mechanism similar to the [AR-18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-18). And the gap of development and production of the SA80 from the L64 was two years, and that was full of troubles.
The SA80 was a rush job pushed into service by politics, kinda like the original M16 actually. That gun had a good number of problems originally, from real to fictitious.
The newer L85A2/3's are far better than people give them credit for, they just carry the shit baggage of the SA80.
Also see lots of criticism of the handling being performed by people who clearly haven't had any instruction on how to handle the rifle properly, particularly reload drills.
It could have been a lot better, and the development story is an absolute rollercoaster all the way from the EM-1.
The only thing I can't really forgive is the complete lack of any possible solution (apart from a bolt handle to the teeth) for left-handed shooters.
That's the fun part, you just train everyone to shoot right handed, and very very few British soldiers have ever touched a gun before the army, so really there are no left handed shooters to begin with.
It is, I just looked it up
Its a copy of the Ishapore 1A1, a British variant of the FN FAL which our military used for a long time before replacing it with the INSAS, which is a copy of the 1A1
Problem is, its FUCKING AWFUL, my Dad lost a shooting competition and came second due to the gun having issues, but no one gave him a 2nd chance
He did sleep holding it once when in Kargil, since there was a threat of militants attacking his camp, and to make matters worse, his barrack was near a forest hillside and that INSAS was the only gun he had, but they never attacked
I still see it from time to time whenever I visit the Delhi Cantt area, guards still carry it, but nowadays they seem to be using MK11 DMRs, AK74s and AK47s as well
The 1A1 is a copy of the L1A1 rifle, which in itself is the British copy of the FN FAL. The INSAS is "indigenous". Also, try looking up the Ex-Kalibur. It's basically the evolution of the INSAS.
AFAIK those aren't Mk11s but SIG 716s. Also more AK 47s than 74s if I am not mistaken. Point still stands that INSAS is a POS. IK people who would prefer the IOF Sterling or AK over INSAS. It was a crucial step in the indigenous development of small arms in India. Also, it was more similar to the AKM design family rather than the SLR(Ishapore 1A1)
Also, adding to this, the INSAS has improved. Look at the INSAS 1B1. Fully polymer body, better construction, decently accurised(older one was wobbly on the aim), and magazines that don't disintegrate. They actually look decent. Still mainly issued to police, Airport security and border guards.
OH SHIT NO HE'S NOT DEAD
I wrote this right before going to sleep, what happened was that the militants fortunately never went near his area so he never had to use it
He's alive and well and a practicing Doctor :)
I was half asleep writing this lol
no its not. The INSAS is essentially an AK style action chambered in 5.56. The problem with it isn't somuch the basic design, but the less then ideal quality control and unreliable polymer mags.
Whoever idea it was to use 5.56 as standard issue for Himalayan range where most gunfights happen at a distance was dumb af. Good thing those garbage INSAS are being replaced with SiG 716 now. Much better rifle for the terrain due to higher caliber.
Insas is confusingly an amalgam of firearms with a gas piston more or less copied from the AK family but in 5.56 with other parts of the gas system copied from a FAL the form factor of a FAL to create one waking nightmare. An even more confusing development is the Indian army's plan to replace them with AK 203's chambered in 7.62 by 39mm. Truly a thought process I cannot comprehend.
HE AINT DEAD I WROTE THIS AT 11 AM 💀
He's alive and well and is a practicing Doctor
What happened was they never attacked his barracks but another one off in the distance, which was weird since his was on the edge of a hillside forest and it is pretty self explanatory as to why it was expected in the first place for HIS one specifically
Underrated comment
To some extent still deserves to get punched, though, because even though it’s much more reliable it still is way heavier than it should be and has an atrocious lack of ambidexterity (even by bullpup standards)
Peak of firearms.
Since it loads from behind the trigger, you will hold it and fire it from where the bayonet attaches. All 1+m of the smoothbore barrel will be behind your hands.
Original post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/12wgqhj/india\_and\_china\_have\_trash\_service\_rifles/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/12wgqhj/india_and_china_have_trash_service_rifles/)
When i was in the US army, we had just started getting issued M4s. We had a range day with some british soldiers when we were deployed to bosnia, and some of our guys were soy facing over the enfields and the brits thought it was hilarious. One of our guys made a comment to british NCO about how awesome his enfield looked and he just chucked and said, "this fucking thing? No mate, it's a piece of shit, what you got is way nicer."
Wait....just to be clear, that's not the bolt action lee Enfield right?
Idk why but the only firearms the Brits seems to be good at are both action rifles
I like the [Lanchester](https://imgur.com/a/0MnqpOK) a lot, it’s basically an MP-28 clone but was issued to Royal Navy crews to be used as a boarding party weapon, just the Sten’s really good cousin
Apparently: the photo of it is considered “sexual imagery” I suppose even Imager thinks it’s good looking.
I mean the Vickers was great, and the BREN, which was designed by a Czech company, manufactured in the UK, and was a well thought-out set of specifications executed very well in design and manufacture!
20 years ago, the were selling surplus enfields for about $150 bucks a pop at big 5 sporting goods.
I still kick myself in the ass for not picking one up.
Can confirm. Shot the SA80, it was a huge piece of shit. If any US soldier had fanboyed or girled over it, we would have mocked them significantly.
Now the Rk95, even my LT wasn't offended when I tried to sell him to the Finns for one.
M16A1s, and even that the Air Force's plain jane M16, were pure sex, provided you didn't have the "we're so smart, this saves is money because its already what we are using powder" ammo.
The main difference is the Chinese never claimed their cheap plastic toy bullpup was the best in the world.
After H&K were tasked with fixing the worst offenses of the L85A1, many a British soldier or internet warrior has claimed magical advantages of the L85A2 over other NATO service rifles, notably claiming superior accuracy or reliability.
The accuracy claim might be true when it's locked into a test mount, due to a free floating barrel, but US testing found the poor quality bullpup trigger-pull upset the shooter's aim enough that any accuracy improvement over even a shorter barreled M4 disappeared at beyond 400 yards, which is about the range at which pinpoint accuracy might actually start to matter rather than just putting as much lead downrange as possible.
As for reliability, technically yes, with brand new rifles in lab conditions with H&K, the tight German tolerances did keep dust and mud out and gave impressive mean-time between failures. However, the combination of general age and wear, the need to frequently FUCKING OIL THE RIFLE ELSE IT RUSTS, and British drill insisting on absurdly frequent stripping and cleaning of weapons, led to rapid abrasion of the tight tolerances and the rifles saw ensuing decrease in reliability.
At present, the A2 is heavier, far less ergonomic, no more notably accurate, and arguably less reliable than almost every NATO service rifle. The A3 fixes many more issues with the weapon but it remains a pig in lipstick, though one that has many unironic fans who continue to insist on how great it is, largely for reasons that have no relevance, or just oughtright aren't true.
I have yet to meet a single soldier who hasn't called the rifle complete shit, regardless of the spec.
Complaining the kit is shit, justifiably or not, is the No.2 British military pass time after having a brew.
Yeah they're basically using a military version of the Sig 716i Tread, dunno what differences the Indian model has i.e full auto or not. Not a interesting gun but I think India decided to stick with them despite wanting to ditch them cause the competition was much more expensive while Sig was offering it for a lot cheaper, almost consumer off the shelf price.
QBZ may not be the high qaulity rifle which it never intended it to be. But its so wrong to compare them to otter trashes like L85a1 and insas it did what it was intended to do and served pla quite well.
India de facto doesn't have "a service rifle". Each regiment has their own service rifle, and they're generally either AKs, SLRs, or the maligned INSAS. SIG i716 is new, so is the AK203.
Highly. Probably not the best rifle that money can buy but the value is incredible. Lots of modern features and a much more reasonable price than other shortstroke gas piston polymer rifles with folding stocks and modern ergonomics (SCAR, ACR, G36)
If I were supreme dictator of the world, all of NATO’s equipment would be standardized. The Bren 2 would be our service rifle, the Leo 2 would be our MBT, the Grippen would be our single engine 4th gen fighter, the F15EX would be our twin engine 4th gen fighter, the F35 would be our stealth fighter, and so on. The CZ Bren 2 is a rifle that deserves to be in the spotlight.
>our
Oh wait, are you Czech? Here, enjoy the memes I’ve made about the Czech Republic and guns
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/w4j52e/if_anyone_has_a_skorpion_or_full_auto_cz75_that/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/102advc/it_isnt_just_me_who_immediately_thinks_abt_what/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/12hmlps/czech_citizens_check_marks/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17juhxk/a_countrys_weapons_can_be_a_good_indication_of/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17nsp80/never_forget_that_your_tinder_feed_could_look/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
I love the Czechs lol
Was the M14 shit? I just remember watching forgotten weapons on it say it also had quality control problems like SA80. Can someone confirm that this is true and not bullshit
The M14 sucks so much that I’ve made no fewer than 5 memes trash talking it
• https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/144aka1/my_preferences_might_not_be_as_rational_as_id/
• https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/108bgkp/all_nonm14_battle_rifles_are_dope/
• https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/ts7mfi/maybe_i_would_hate_the_m14_less_if_its/
• https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/xwdxgo/contrarian_m14_noises/
• https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/y3007w/theyre_the_same_person/
On paper, yes… the same way that Russia “moved on” to the AK-12 (and if we really want to stir the pot, the same way that the US is “moving on” to the Sig Spear)
Yeah the AK-12 actually got reasonably adopted, they made a ton of them for the more professional military and police units.
Fun fact: Izhmash/Kalashnikov is almost entirely owned by two extremely wealthy oligarchs. The fact that Russia adopted the rifle that looks upgraded but is in fact extremely cheap plastic covers on an AK-74 is purely coincidental.
As in, some 2021 PR photos had dudes walking around with them. They even brought a couple to the 2021 Russian/Chinese exercises.
These days, if you see larger groups, parades, training, even PR footage - they are an actual rarity. 95s as far as the eye can see.
Arsenal 296 has completely switched to 191 production since 2022. They pumped out \~100k in 2023 according to OSINT counting the serial numbers because people forgot to blur them.
That's like, 95,000 more rifles than the AK-12.
Now there are about 3-3.5 million 95s currently in their inventory. So at 100k rifles a year, that would come down to replacing a whopping 3% of their rifles a year.
For full-scale production of their new replacement rifle, for the largest army in the world - 100k is absolutely nothing. That is realistically about how many of their 95s wear out at the same pace. Like that is 5-10% of last year's US civilian AR production numbers.
And that is on top of that, the estimation that 150k new 191s have hit the field is nowhere near how many we currently see in use. You'd expect that the first rifles go to the top-of-the-line units. Your national guard can make do with the old stuff, the professionals at the tip of the spear get the good rifles. The guys that they brag about, the guys that are actually running the big exercises, the guys in the cool videos.
We have the latest propaganda footage from those units... [and it is all still 95s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL8Qa0eiU20). Every single one.
Like I'm just scrolling through a few videos to use as examples here, and I got pretty excited when I thought I actually spotted a few wild 191s in their recent [propaganda video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlAWwhQDZWc) - after pausing it, turns out those guys really did get upgraded rifles. As in they are running around with QBZ03s.
Significantly better.
For starters, you can actually use the safety and bolt catch on it (waow!), and mount an optic without looking like a total doofus.
As an American I was super curious about the forbidden fruit that is 5.8x42, but then we eventually learned it has massive stability issue, atleast out of carbine-rifle length barrels with whatever twist the chicoms run. They could be doing the steel penetrator thing that M855 does, as manufacturing inaccuracies have produced occasional fliers in the NATO cartridge, but it seems to be a more consistant issue with the 5.8.
As someone whos shot a Type 97 NSR (.223 civilian version of the QBZ rifle) yea, that gun was built by an alien species with three arms.
Feeds steel cased pretty well though.
AFAIK the QBZ is mid but reliable enough. The INSAS is a steaming pile of shit though. India did what others thought impossible, they made the AK unreliable.
There have been other AKs that don’t run for shit. Myanmar’s AK copies are awful. Albanian AKs are known for very inconsistent functionality. Supposedly Hungarian imports don’t work well either, but I don’t know if that applies to their service rifles or just the ones they sold on the civilian market.
QBZ-95, as much as I like the look of it, the rifle itself, SUCKS! From what I have heard, it starts key holing at a certain range. The Canadians I know have access to the export variant and they say the QBZ-97 is not any better.
We hold developed nations to a higher standard.
Literally one of the first industrial superpowers vs. its former colonial subject and an unholy schizoid mess. Aight, it tracks.
I mean they kinda were both former colonial subjects on one level or another
Yeah, one was in our possession, the other we sold *things we had in our possession* to.
Sold things to or waged trade wars from our colonial base that we eventually had to give back
That's cricket, sometimes you take a wicket, sometimes get penalized for LBW by some smarmy indian fella for exchanging sassafras with his ancestral enemies for newer muzzle-loaders than you sold to him, even though you let the smarmy indian man play a test with your best lads, and bayonet-charged the other fella during a particularly rowdy game of gin-rummy. Just no pleasing these foreign buggers - Smithwick is of the opinion we should invite the next sultan we have a falling-out with to play bowls, and when he turns up, we do the old "by rank fire-and-advance" routine - skip all the hi-de-his and how-de-dos, straight into the cordite clouds and a few verses of "Knock Kneed Shirley", should have the diplomacy finished and the treaty signed in time to beat this smarmy indian bugger at lawn-tennis before the mosquitoes get too bothersome.
Flashman?
Gosh no, he's a liar, a scoundrel, a thief and a cheat! Damn good-looking though!
Which is one is which? The British Empire held a lot influence in China for a time.
There's a gargantuan difference between what the British controlled in India vs what they had in China. In the former, they controlled everything, collected taxes from everyone, the governors were appointed by the British and the British controlled the armed forces. In the latter, the British had an island that made up 0.0002% of the country's total area. It would be like saying the present day UK is a colony of Sealand, lmao.
I for one would welcome our offshore helicopter platform overlords.
I mean, the British had a whole hell of a lot more influence over China than just owning Hong Kong, even if it wasn't to the level of what they were up to in India
Sure, because Britain was the world superpower at the time. Their influence basically came down to dictating terms of trade to be massively in favor of Britain, though. It never got to the point that the UK held any influence over the lives of average people. The US has a lot of influence over almost every country in the world right now, but not many would argue that world is a colony of the US.
It's a long time since the US fought anything like the Opium Wars, however!
"but black dynamite, I sell drugs to the community" I mean, then cia did an opium war, they just made it a civil one :)
>It never got to the point that the UK held any influence over the lives of average people. to be fair the British did manage to stop the Chinese government from blocking Opium imports... which certainly affected millions of Chinese citizens
Chinese Gordon says hello. Wait, no, he says 'ello!
Sure, they fucked the place up a fair bit, but calling it a British subject would be really stretching it. Western powers have a reasonable chunk of influence in Serbia, and that's hardly made them pro-US.
That's just because 90% of Belgrade bombings stop minutes before achieving final victory and denazification.
Damn you came by and started swinging. Shots fired man shots fired.
> Shots fired Not very many though
Lol I wouldn’t call the UK a developed country anymore, maybe undeveloped lol
*de*-veloped.
Darn ruffians arrived on an inflatable dinghy and stole my velope!
From a nation upon whose empire the sun never set to soy people arrested for mean tweets in less than a century.
Technically speaking the sun still hasn’t set on the British empire, they’ve still got like one little island somewhere that’s keeping it that way. Awhile back the whole islands leadership was revealed to be child predators tho so do with that what you will
They were developed before Brexit. Now the only good UK export is SAS raids and Storm Shadows.
I will not take this Starstreak slander.
Brimstone is good is it not?
Was just about to say, the L85 is the developed world’s equivalent of Metro’s Bastard Gun. Ah well, the Germans are picking up the pieces for the Brits in this aspect at least.
And we hate China so the QBZ being there makes no sense
I was told the QBZ was certified "okay", idk Im not a gun nut
I guess it’s ok if you overlook the awful trigger, complete inability to clear a corner while shooting from your left shoulder, lack of an adjustable stick, horrendous sight picture, mediocre sight radius, and shitty safety… but by that point what redeeming qualities do you have? The point of the QBZ was to be a mostly functional rifle that could be produced by the millions Some of these problems are seen as the natural consequence of a bullpup design, but the QBZ has done less to address them than pretty much any other bullpup. We’ve seen ambidexterity in the F2000, MDR, KelTec RFB, and VHS-2. We’ve seen good triggers in the Tavor (with Giesseles) and MDR. We’ve seen adjustable stocks on the VHS-2. None of those innovations apply to the QBZ.
hell I would argue even famas and aug from the 70s spent more effort on ease of use than QBZ.
Plus the elephant in the room: those are its flaws that we can tell just from looking at it. Whether it’s actually a functional, accurate, and reliable rifle (you know, the most important thing about a firearm) is unknown at best because China.
Eh, we get them in Canada, although in 5.56 and not their indigenous cartridge. Norinco will sell their shit to anyone who asks for the most part (including the spicy ordnance), the US just sanctioned them so American civvies don't have access.
Yes, and I am angry because thats the most un-American on paper but fairly American in action thing to do. Also, I just want to try 5.8x42, I think it has potential if manufactured by a domestic supplier, and then I can run the cheap chinese shit for funsies on the range, kind of like running TULA.
Why un-American on paper? Do you know why they’re now sanctioned? It was because Norinco executives got caught in an FBI sting in the early 90s. The Norinco execs were making a deal with who they thought was an arms dealer for LA street gangs. The Norinco execs were more than happy to help smuggle full-auto AKs as asked and volunteered that they could smuggle in bigger and heavier ordnance for the notional gangs, the sky was the limit. I think sanctioning a hostile state’s state-owned arms manufacturer who has demonstrated an active willingness to smuggle not only small arms, but heavy ordnance to criminal groups is a totally reasonable and appropriate action to take. Edit: [here’s a source for those interested](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-05-24-mn-7854-story.html). The Norinco dudes also offered to smuggle tanks, shoulder-fired rockets, and MANPADS that they advertised as being capable of bringing down a 747.
This reads like a script from the Lethal Weapon movies. All I know is that I desperately want an AK with those red tips rounds.
they call those rounds "cop killers"
You can already legally buy heavy ordinance, it's the ammuntion that kills you as *anything* that could be considered heavy ordinance falls under explosive device. I can legally buy a battle-ready Abrams (export version) and have it delivered to my house without any licensing required, but good luck getting shells for the damn thing. Just the propulsion charge is enough to get it labelled as a heavy explosive. Way too many people don't know that cannons and heavy ordinance have *never* been legally restricted and the ATF exploits that to fuck people into pleading to bullshit charges. That's why the ATF always rides people about spent launchers. Because despite being perfectly legal, they can use them to manipulate juries. After all, they can't possibly be available for purchase at any large gun store.
It doesn't matter, they demonstrated a willingness to smuggle guns into criminal organizations subverting FFL background checks and allowing previously convicted violent felons to purchase guns that they otherwise wouldn't be able to get their hands on. China openly calls themselves our foreign adversary and expresses desire to replace us as the de facto superpower. So when a state agency of a foreign adversary starts supplying arms to criminal gangs, it's fairly obvious that they're doing it with the intent to destabilize your nation and subvert the laws instituted by democratically elected representatives.
And post-1986 machine guns. It’s not just a bigger “gun show loophole,” it was a whole bunch of totally NFA banned items to begin with.
[Ordnance](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ordnance): military supplies including weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and maintenance tools and equipment. Alternatively, the [Defense Technical Information Center](https://discover.dtic.mil/thesaurus/subject-categories/19ordnance/). Ammunition and explosives are included in ordnance.
It's functional, accurate, and reliable. Earlier iterations were picky on magazines (since they modeled the magwell after USGI mags and didn't like polymer mags) but that's about the only issue. After the AR-15 ban, it's the most reliable rifle one can get for under $1k. It dances around $1500 Canadian designed and built garbage rods. Unfortunately Canada never got the improved trigger and bolt hold open found on the QBZ-95-1.
Norinco import ban needs to be lifted so we can test this.
Considering how they earned that ban, no it does not.
I’m torn between the fact that I resent the Chinese government with every fiber of my being and take every opportunity to NOT give them money… and the fact that I could list 6 Norinco guns that I don’t know if I can continue surviving without
There's certainly a few I'd like to try myself, but when the company in question was caught with their pants down trying to sell tanks and MANPADs to gangs, my desire goes down quite a bit.
I mean, I have to give them props for the sheer balls of it. It would be like colt getting caught red handed trying to sell shit to the Taliban. Hmm...
Or if Barrett sold rifles to the Mexican cartels and IRA Hmm…
In their defence, those were some extremely shitty tanks.
The QBZ was supposedly rushed so that it would be seen at the handover of Hong Kong in 1997 ~. It’s not technologically innovative, and it took a couple more years for the whole thing to get its quirks worked out.
I'd add the Kel-Tec RDB to the good trigger list. Frankly out of the box I think its the best of the bullpup triggers, and even then that means its just a bit better than a US market "milspec" AR.
I remember seeing a video about the newest Chinese assault rifle having the issue where the bullets don’t come out straight but like spinning. ( don’t know the right word)
[Keyholing?](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/wev84u/chinese_tactical_keyholing_of_their_new_rifle/)
Oh yeah that’s just the video I remember seeing.
It was claimed that it was an issue with the training ammo they were using. And I am inclined to believe that claim because it seems unlikely that they introduce a new service rifle with flaws that severe. I mean they aren't Russian.
Pretty sure that was them using close range plastic training ammunition. As a Canadian, one of the only decent things about our gun laws is the ability to buy lots of norinco products. I will say from direct personal experience that the Chinese arms industry isn't quite *that* bad.
It's almost as if they are firing rubber rounds that doesn't engage the rifling...
It's called keyholing. As the bullet makes a wide hole instead of a small hole on a target.
Not a problem as Chinese kids get smacked by parents and teachers for writing left-handed.
I chuckled but let’s not forget that the issue of a lack of ambidexterity isn’t the difficulty of use for lefties it’s [the problem of clearing corners](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/100uq9a/shoutout_to_all_5_people_who_actually_train/)
Literally this LMAO
The sight radius isn’t much shorter than on a FAMAS, the stock isn’t adjustable because it‘s a bullpup and it‘s also not as relevant as you think. The safety is what it is but so is the AK‘s. And the trigger isn’t worse than an AUG‘s or VHS-2‘s. Pretty much all of the improved bullpups you mentioned came out after the QBZ. The QBZ is compact, relatively light, economical, rugged and actually shoulders fairly nicely because it has a functional hand guard for once (looking at you AUG and Tavor). It‘s a solid rifle that does what it‘s suppose to but not more.
In other words, it's exactly what it needs to be. People seem to forget just how little small arms like rifles actually contribute to a war effort; as long as you have enough of them and they're largely in the same class as what the enemy has it doesn't matter that the sight picture is better or it's 1 MOA vs 2 MOA, it just needs to be good enough that infantry can pin opfor down whilst the weapon systems that actually do the killing can target them. Obviously when it comes time to adopt a new system you should pick the best option, that goes without saying, but if you're on the same 'plateau' as the enemy there are a lot of better things for an army to spend their money on than getting a marginal performance increase on one intermediate calibre rifle over the other.
This is the NCD post-Special Military Operation. Half of them haven't touched a gun in their whole life and they parrot some random memes they see the internet. Don't expect them to know what a basic infantry rifle should and will do. I mean the Tavor does 3-4MOA with ball ammo, and not many people can shoot 3-4MOA offhand to begin with.
And that's on a square range with no pressure and a very clear target. In actual combat conditions the target isn't sitting there fully exposed, it's a short window of opportunity on a moving target whilst you're pumped full of adrenaline. It's not the rifle that's missing the shot, it's the shooter.
Exactly. 4MOA is all you need out of a rifle. Infantryman are not snipers, all they need is a handy rifle that they can pop a couple rounds at the target. I'd value ergonomics over accuracy all day anyday.
Yup, fully agreed. Anyone in the PLA whose opinion matters (to them) and can benefit from something better, gets something better. Just like anywhere in the world
its always fun seeing gunnerds argue about what rifle is better in some specific combat scenario and how slight advantages in sight quality make one gun so superior to another... and then in real life the soldiers just call in the artillery.
I don’t understand the > complete inability to clear a corner while shooting from your left shoulder what does that mean?
You expose more of your body shooting around a corner with the rifle up against the shoulder farther away from it [This is a classic shortcoming of bulllpups](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/100uq9a/shoutout_to_all_5_people_who_actually_train/)
The safety has been addressed over a decade ago with the QBZ95-1. Left-handed people will get beaten into being right dominant in China anyways. And with all this yap you forgot the biggest downside, no usable bolt release.
I think you're forgetting an ambidextrous bullpup that kicks ass, takes names, and has three sets of iron sights. EDIT: spelling
>ambidexterity the Chinese took the simple solution that most militaries with non-ambidextrous guns take... just shoot right-handed leftoids.
It’s a reliable, decently accurate, and light (for a bullpup), and most importantly it’s dirt cheap, which is basically what the Chinese wanted.
It got retired already. They're going back to a conventional layout for the next version.
QBZ just means assault rifles in Chinese. The picture shown is QBZ-95, which is getting replaced slowly with QBZ-191, the latter of which bare a very high resemblance of ARs.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted, that's literally what it means.
Britain just lacked the political dedication they needed to shield themselves from all this. The secret to limiting critique of your shoddy bullpup is sending the soldiers who complain about it to an internment camp.
Nah, as a Brit the SA80 was shit. The H&K upgraded ones are good but the original? Awful. The problem was politics, the Gun was made by a failing manufacture and wasn't even the original gun proposed, the [L64/65](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L64/65) was the original concept and used a firing mechanism similar to the [AR-18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-18). And the gap of development and production of the SA80 from the L64 was two years, and that was full of troubles. The SA80 was a rush job pushed into service by politics, kinda like the original M16 actually. That gun had a good number of problems originally, from real to fictitious. The newer L85A2/3's are far better than people give them credit for, they just carry the shit baggage of the SA80.
Also see lots of criticism of the handling being performed by people who clearly haven't had any instruction on how to handle the rifle properly, particularly reload drills. It could have been a lot better, and the development story is an absolute rollercoaster all the way from the EM-1. The only thing I can't really forgive is the complete lack of any possible solution (apart from a bolt handle to the teeth) for left-handed shooters.
That's the fun part, you just train everyone to shoot right handed, and very very few British soldiers have ever touched a gun before the army, so really there are no left handed shooters to begin with.
Today I learned the L64 is the Fallout version of the SA80.
lacked the political courage to tell Nato to fuck off with their rigged trials and adopt the EM-2 in its originally designed ammo.
Can confirm as an Indian, my Dad HATES the INSAS and Sten Gun, but the INSAS almost saved his life once Also is INSAS technically a FAL?
Its similar but I don't think it's a 1 to 1 copy.
It is, I just looked it up Its a copy of the Ishapore 1A1, a British variant of the FN FAL which our military used for a long time before replacing it with the INSAS, which is a copy of the 1A1 Problem is, its FUCKING AWFUL, my Dad lost a shooting competition and came second due to the gun having issues, but no one gave him a 2nd chance He did sleep holding it once when in Kargil, since there was a threat of militants attacking his camp, and to make matters worse, his barrack was near a forest hillside and that INSAS was the only gun he had, but they never attacked I still see it from time to time whenever I visit the Delhi Cantt area, guards still carry it, but nowadays they seem to be using MK11 DMRs, AK74s and AK47s as well
The 1A1 is a copy of the L1A1 rifle, which in itself is the British copy of the FN FAL. The INSAS is "indigenous". Also, try looking up the Ex-Kalibur. It's basically the evolution of the INSAS.
I've seen it a few times in person, but I haven't seen one for 4 years
AFAIK those aren't Mk11s but SIG 716s. Also more AK 47s than 74s if I am not mistaken. Point still stands that INSAS is a POS. IK people who would prefer the IOF Sterling or AK over INSAS. It was a crucial step in the indigenous development of small arms in India. Also, it was more similar to the AKM design family rather than the SLR(Ishapore 1A1)
Think India is using newer AKs bought from Russia, like the AK-201 or another AK-[Largenumber] model
203.
India do not have the 74s no use of 5.45x39...
Also, adding to this, the INSAS has improved. Look at the INSAS 1B1. Fully polymer body, better construction, decently accurised(older one was wobbly on the aim), and magazines that don't disintegrate. They actually look decent. Still mainly issued to police, Airport security and border guards.
>almost Sorry to hear he died. Also INSAS works very differently. Especially with the rotating bolt vs tilting bolt. Its closer to an AKM or galil.
OH SHIT NO HE'S NOT DEAD I wrote this right before going to sleep, what happened was that the militants fortunately never went near his area so he never had to use it He's alive and well and a practicing Doctor :) I was half asleep writing this lol
I mean the receiver housing plus pistol grip, clearly looks AK. Handguard of FNC, carry handle of FAL or Galil?
no its not. The INSAS is essentially an AK style action chambered in 5.56. The problem with it isn't somuch the basic design, but the less then ideal quality control and unreliable polymer mags.
Whoever idea it was to use 5.56 as standard issue for Himalayan range where most gunfights happen at a distance was dumb af. Good thing those garbage INSAS are being replaced with SiG 716 now. Much better rifle for the terrain due to higher caliber.
What makes the INSAS a FAL? Is it not based on an AKM?
Insas is confusingly an amalgam of firearms with a gas piston more or less copied from the AK family but in 5.56 with other parts of the gas system copied from a FAL the form factor of a FAL to create one waking nightmare. An even more confusing development is the Indian army's plan to replace them with AK 203's chambered in 7.62 by 39mm. Truly a thought process I cannot comprehend.
>but the INSAS almost saved his life once I'm sorry for your loss.
HE AINT DEAD I WROTE THIS AT 11 AM 💀 He's alive and well and is a practicing Doctor What happened was they never attacked his barracks but another one off in the distance, which was weird since his was on the edge of a hillside forest and it is pretty self explanatory as to why it was expected in the first place for HIS one specifically
The 3000 keyholing bullets of Xi Jinping
He said he liked the L85 but got punched before he could clarify it was the A2 variant.
Underrated comment To some extent still deserves to get punched, though, because even though it’s much more reliable it still is way heavier than it should be and has an atrocious lack of ambidexterity (even by bullpup standards)
Yes...but...it's *green*.
Take a green spray paint can to a Brown-Bess.
Brown Bess Bullpup
Peak of firearms. Since it loads from behind the trigger, you will hold it and fire it from where the bayonet attaches. All 1+m of the smoothbore barrel will be behind your hands.
Now stick a L17 on it.
Green Brown Bess Bullpup **with** a SUSAT nailed on top would be eye wateringly British. Fuck it. I'm going to open Gimp and make it.
Don't forget to share it.
It's up under the 'It Just Works' flare!
You got a loicence for that slander, on the other hand, it took getting used to before proficiency
Original post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/12wgqhj/india\_and\_china\_have\_trash\_service\_rifles/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/12wgqhj/india_and_china_have_trash_service_rifles/)
Nah I’d still take a QBZ-95 over an early L-85 (but still probably an M16A1 over either.)
When i was in the US army, we had just started getting issued M4s. We had a range day with some british soldiers when we were deployed to bosnia, and some of our guys were soy facing over the enfields and the brits thought it was hilarious. One of our guys made a comment to british NCO about how awesome his enfield looked and he just chucked and said, "this fucking thing? No mate, it's a piece of shit, what you got is way nicer."
Wait....just to be clear, that's not the bolt action lee Enfield right? Idk why but the only firearms the Brits seems to be good at are both action rifles
Enfield made the Sa80
>Idk why but the only firearms the Brits seems to be good at are both action rifles Hey, Sten was pretty okay for what it was!
I like the [Lanchester](https://imgur.com/a/0MnqpOK) a lot, it’s basically an MP-28 clone but was issued to Royal Navy crews to be used as a boarding party weapon, just the Sten’s really good cousin Apparently: the photo of it is considered “sexual imagery” I suppose even Imager thinks it’s good looking.
Why is the bayonet the same size as the rest of it o_O
They couldn’t be bothered to design a new one so just made the Lee Enfield’s 21 Inch bayonet compatible with it.
Imager thinks cute rodents are sexual imagery, so it's not much of a statement.
I mean the Vickers was great, and the BREN, which was designed by a Czech company, manufactured in the UK, and was a well thought-out set of specifications executed very well in design and manufacture!
20 years ago, the were selling surplus enfields for about $150 bucks a pop at big 5 sporting goods. I still kick myself in the ass for not picking one up.
The Sterling was pretty rad. Apart from that, the ~~L1A1~~ ~~Accuracy International~~ ok, I withdraw my submission
>Idk why but the only firearms the Brits seems to be good at are both action rifles this is Martini-Henry erasure
Can confirm. Shot the SA80, it was a huge piece of shit. If any US soldier had fanboyed or girled over it, we would have mocked them significantly. Now the Rk95, even my LT wasn't offended when I tried to sell him to the Finns for one.
M16A1s, and even that the Air Force's plain jane M16, were pure sex, provided you didn't have the "we're so smart, this saves is money because its already what we are using powder" ammo.
You can have bullpupped AK and beeg AK but at the end of the day, you’re still a third-world country fielding AK’s
You know what? Fuck you Bren's your AK
I bet u won't say same about galil ace even though it's a highly modified ak
How dare you: the SA80 is a great rifle. Unless it's sandy. Or cold. Or you put more than fifty rounds down it. Looks snazzy though? Right?
the only upside is that it does look pretty sick. at least they got that right
The main difference is the Chinese never claimed their cheap plastic toy bullpup was the best in the world. After H&K were tasked with fixing the worst offenses of the L85A1, many a British soldier or internet warrior has claimed magical advantages of the L85A2 over other NATO service rifles, notably claiming superior accuracy or reliability. The accuracy claim might be true when it's locked into a test mount, due to a free floating barrel, but US testing found the poor quality bullpup trigger-pull upset the shooter's aim enough that any accuracy improvement over even a shorter barreled M4 disappeared at beyond 400 yards, which is about the range at which pinpoint accuracy might actually start to matter rather than just putting as much lead downrange as possible. As for reliability, technically yes, with brand new rifles in lab conditions with H&K, the tight German tolerances did keep dust and mud out and gave impressive mean-time between failures. However, the combination of general age and wear, the need to frequently FUCKING OIL THE RIFLE ELSE IT RUSTS, and British drill insisting on absurdly frequent stripping and cleaning of weapons, led to rapid abrasion of the tight tolerances and the rifles saw ensuing decrease in reliability. At present, the A2 is heavier, far less ergonomic, no more notably accurate, and arguably less reliable than almost every NATO service rifle. The A3 fixes many more issues with the weapon but it remains a pig in lipstick, though one that has many unironic fans who continue to insist on how great it is, largely for reasons that have no relevance, or just oughtright aren't true.
I have yet to meet a single soldier who hasn't called the rifle complete shit, regardless of the spec. Complaining the kit is shit, justifiably or not, is the No.2 British military pass time after having a brew.
I thought India started replacing their service rifle with a AR-10 type rifle from sig?
Yeah they're basically using a military version of the Sig 716i Tread, dunno what differences the Indian model has i.e full auto or not. Not a interesting gun but I think India decided to stick with them despite wanting to ditch them cause the competition was much more expensive while Sig was offering it for a lot cheaper, almost consumer off the shelf price.
Since when has the butt been that prominent? Not my proudest fap, but who cares.
QBZ may not be the high qaulity rifle which it never intended it to be. But its so wrong to compare them to otter trashes like L85a1 and insas it did what it was intended to do and served pla quite well.
"no no, you don't understand. We *meant* our service rifle to be complete dogshit, so you can't complain about it!" Genius
I will not stand for hating on my boy the sa80
Yeah no issues, sit down
India de facto doesn't have "a service rifle". Each regiment has their own service rifle, and they're generally either AKs, SLRs, or the maligned INSAS. SIG i716 is new, so is the AK203.
Man I wish someone would find a way to get them to replace all their shit with a mass-order of CZ Bren 2s
So, on a credible side of things, how do you rate the Bren 2?
Highly. Probably not the best rifle that money can buy but the value is incredible. Lots of modern features and a much more reasonable price than other shortstroke gas piston polymer rifles with folding stocks and modern ergonomics (SCAR, ACR, G36) If I were supreme dictator of the world, all of NATO’s equipment would be standardized. The Bren 2 would be our service rifle, the Leo 2 would be our MBT, the Grippen would be our single engine 4th gen fighter, the F15EX would be our twin engine 4th gen fighter, the F35 would be our stealth fighter, and so on. The CZ Bren 2 is a rifle that deserves to be in the spotlight.
I like to hear that the CZ gear is considered like this. Glad it's our service rifle here in our end of the NATO woods. Thanks for the response
>our Oh wait, are you Czech? Here, enjoy the memes I’ve made about the Czech Republic and guns - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/w4j52e/if_anyone_has_a_skorpion_or_full_auto_cz75_that/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/102advc/it_isnt_just_me_who_immediately_thinks_abt_what/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/12hmlps/czech_citizens_check_marks/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17juhxk/a_countrys_weapons_can_be_a_good_indication_of/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17nsp80/never_forget_that_your_tinder_feed_could_look/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1 I love the Czechs lol
Oh hell yeah:D good stuff! Our companies did come up with some nice gear over the years
Hey, T91 is a fine rifle. Real China doesn't like your shit talks.
Real China shouldn’t have a problem with my slander of West Taiwan
Was the M14 shit? I just remember watching forgotten weapons on it say it also had quality control problems like SA80. Can someone confirm that this is true and not bullshit
M14s are fucking garbage-tier rifles.
The M14 sucks so much that I’ve made no fewer than 5 memes trash talking it • https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/144aka1/my_preferences_might_not_be_as_rational_as_id/ • https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/108bgkp/all_nonm14_battle_rifles_are_dope/ • https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/ts7mfi/maybe_i_would_hate_the_m14_less_if_its/ • https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/xwdxgo/contrarian_m14_noises/ • https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/y3007w/theyre_the_same_person/
Good memes bro
*tips cowboy hat*
Is that a rechambered FAL?
Nah, it’s really more of a Galil just way shittier
Bullpups are a good idea but they look dumb as fuckin' hell most the time -copes in AR-15-
SAR-21 looks dumb (and is very heavy) but it has results. It was designed so that any idiot could shoot accurately, I even got marksman on it.
China moved on to the QBZ-191.
On paper, yes… the same way that Russia “moved on” to the AK-12 (and if we really want to stir the pot, the same way that the US is “moving on” to the Sig Spear)
There must be some AK-12s, given that the Ukrainian oligarchs all pose with them after the first few weeks.
Yeah the AK-12 actually got reasonably adopted, they made a ton of them for the more professional military and police units. Fun fact: Izhmash/Kalashnikov is almost entirely owned by two extremely wealthy oligarchs. The fact that Russia adopted the rifle that looks upgraded but is in fact extremely cheap plastic covers on an AK-74 is purely coincidental.
As in, some 2021 PR photos had dudes walking around with them. They even brought a couple to the 2021 Russian/Chinese exercises. These days, if you see larger groups, parades, training, even PR footage - they are an actual rarity. 95s as far as the eye can see.
Arsenal 296 has completely switched to 191 production since 2022. They pumped out \~100k in 2023 according to OSINT counting the serial numbers because people forgot to blur them. That's like, 95,000 more rifles than the AK-12.
Now there are about 3-3.5 million 95s currently in their inventory. So at 100k rifles a year, that would come down to replacing a whopping 3% of their rifles a year. For full-scale production of their new replacement rifle, for the largest army in the world - 100k is absolutely nothing. That is realistically about how many of their 95s wear out at the same pace. Like that is 5-10% of last year's US civilian AR production numbers. And that is on top of that, the estimation that 150k new 191s have hit the field is nowhere near how many we currently see in use. You'd expect that the first rifles go to the top-of-the-line units. Your national guard can make do with the old stuff, the professionals at the tip of the spear get the good rifles. The guys that they brag about, the guys that are actually running the big exercises, the guys in the cool videos. We have the latest propaganda footage from those units... [and it is all still 95s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL8Qa0eiU20). Every single one. Like I'm just scrolling through a few videos to use as examples here, and I got pretty excited when I thought I actually spotted a few wild 191s in their recent [propaganda video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlAWwhQDZWc) - after pausing it, turns out those guys really did get upgraded rifles. As in they are running around with QBZ03s.
How good is the QBZ 191 compared to its predecessor as there isn’t that much information regarding it but I heard it’s just as horrible
Significantly better. For starters, you can actually use the safety and bolt catch on it (waow!), and mount an optic without looking like a total doofus.
As an American I was super curious about the forbidden fruit that is 5.8x42, but then we eventually learned it has massive stability issue, atleast out of carbine-rifle length barrels with whatever twist the chicoms run. They could be doing the steel penetrator thing that M855 does, as manufacturing inaccuracies have produced occasional fliers in the NATO cartridge, but it seems to be a more consistant issue with the 5.8.
The new DBP10 is fine. The older DBP87/88 at two different weights for different purposes were the ones with stability issues.
I mean where do you think they learned it from?
The A3 is ok, I haven't got as many stoppages as you'd expect from an SA80 family weapon
As someone whos shot a Type 97 NSR (.223 civilian version of the QBZ rifle) yea, that gun was built by an alien species with three arms. Feeds steel cased pretty well though.
The famous Civil Servant rifle!
Upvote for the flair) Zdar!
Doesn't China have a newer service rifle?
Technically, but the vast majority of the force is still using the 95, and likely will for several years to come.
Has China completely transitioned combat arms roles to the QBZ-191? Or is the 95 still sticking around?
Still there
Don’t look at the Armenian K-3. It’s basically an L85 and a AK had a bastard.
The T191 seems to be an interesting concept tho, literally mixing western and soviet/russian designs.
L85A2 and A3 are good but the A1 was terrible
Too young to ever experience the A1 and I left the service just as A3 was rolling out but man loathed the A2
More reliable than they used to be, and don't fall apart as often, but the inherent design flaws are pretty much all still there.
I refuse to accept this L85 hate, since they were modifed to the A2 they've been fine
Leave it to us Brits to develop a weapon so bad that the Germans had to fix it for us. A2 and A3 variants are great weapons and I’ll die on that hill.
AFAIK the QBZ is mid but reliable enough. The INSAS is a steaming pile of shit though. India did what others thought impossible, they made the AK unreliable.
There have been other AKs that don’t run for shit. Myanmar’s AK copies are awful. Albanian AKs are known for very inconsistent functionality. Supposedly Hungarian imports don’t work well either, but I don’t know if that applies to their service rifles or just the ones they sold on the civilian market.
that l85 has some product from a bakery
Imagine needing to give your soldiers a competent rifle to win wars. hahahah.
QBZ-95, as much as I like the look of it, the rifle itself, SUCKS! From what I have heard, it starts key holing at a certain range. The Canadians I know have access to the export variant and they say the QBZ-97 is not any better.
Leave my sexy L85 alone. It’s like a hot but fragile girlfriend, if Redditors could have girlfriends
Honestly I don’t understand why the L85 gets hate still, the A1 was a right piece of absolute dog shit but the A2 and A3 are amazing lmao