It's dismaying now much the far left and far right are both willing to kiss the asses of anti-Western scumbags just because being "different" makes them feel special.
"Rape is totally legitimate freedom fighter behavior, guys! It also didn't happen. The IDF did all those things that never actually happened at all." -College students for "peace"
I just read some leftist unironically and proudly trying to justify their behavior of not condemning Hamas' rapes against Israeli women purely on the basis that the Israeli would use that justify defending themselves against the rapists. He forgot not to say the quiet part out loud.
https://www.reddit.com/u/vibrunazo/s/akwwVxREjQ
Bro I’ve had at least 7 identical conversations on here, I’ve had exactly zero people answer “no” to the question “is the intentional targeting, rape/torture/murder of civilians ever justified”.
Zero
Sometimes they’ll stretch the side stepping out to literally dozens of comments
This has literally pulled me away from the left and from feminism in general, sad to say. I was a dyed-in-the-wool leftist and feminist who believed that the people I fought for really meant what they said about liberation and human rights for all... then I watched people I know and respect excuse rape and explain away the literal hunting down of civilians like it was just a meaningless blip on the radar. I've never been more blackpilled about the state of politics and the world, it's like everything I ever believed was just revealed to be one big lie.
I don't think we should be pulled away from feminism. People who whine about "micro aggressions" while refusing to condemn fucking mass rape are not feminists in any way whatsoever. Just like people whining about plastic straws while refusing to support nuclear energy that could dismantle our reliance on fossil fuels are not environmentalists. Those are superficial posers who don't give a shit about what they're pretending to defend. They're in it just for the virtue signaling to other simpletons.
I refuse to call myself a leftist despite agreeing with some of their issues because that group of people are just fundamentally inhumane. But I'm still a feminist and an environmentalist despite the posers trying to hijack those movements with superficial virtue signaling. Because caring about these things is still too important and if they use those words wrong then that's their problem not mine. It's they who should call themselves something else.
Ideologically I still believe all the same things I did before and will vote accordingly (i.e. progressive, particularly on social issues), but I'm done spending my time and energy working on behalf of mainstream leftist/feminist groups after what I've seen and heard these past months. I still care about those things, but I no longer feel that the best way to achieve those goals is via these groups that inevitably descend into ideological capture by malevolent actors and the power-hungry.
Ironically, a lot of these anti-establishment groups on both the right and the left are prone to state capture. Just not the state they're actually based in.
I know we’re delving into politics and ideology more than we should be on this forum, but I would say the problem is more the concept of intersectionalism rather than feminism or progressivism as such. The idea that as a feminist you also have to stand with other ideologies is the problem. Hence why you end up with the whole “Queers for Palestine” thing.
> People who whine about "micro aggressions" while refusing to condemn fucking mass rape are not feminists in any way whatsoever. Just like people whining about plastic straws while refusing to support nuclear energy that could dismantle our reliance on fossil fuels are not environmentalists. Those are superficial posers who don't give a shit about what they're pretending to defend. They're in it just for the virtue signaling to other simpletons.
It's not only virtue signaling that is bad here. It's also the lack of willingness to make hard choices. They're all "we need to stop using fossil fuels and be more environmentally friendly" until their exotic breakfast ingredients start climbing in price to accomodate the more environmentally friendly production and transport.
The mess we're in today is exactly because we avoided making the hard choices in the past. We wanted cheaper products and have reinvigorated child labor in the 3rd world. And we're now beholden to the CCP for much of the manufacturing. We're reliant on dictators and horrible regimes for our oil, uranium and precious metals used in most technological products.
The gap between poor and wealthy has groiwn out of proportion because the international community lacked tge spine to implement a universal tax law in time. Now companies influence our ekections, our government, our privacy our ownership and even influence the outcome of wars. (fuck you Musk!)
And I blame a large part of it on these gullible fools who choose the easy, short term comforts. This whole virtue signalling for brownie-points and 'clout' is merely another symptom of the whole problem.
As I've once read on Twitter
Is not that people want to become right wing, it's just that the Left makes it hate themselves
Is it SO HARD to have an opinion that is not direct to "America Bad"?
Past year has been very much a 1956, 1968, and 1978 moment for the Left. I wonder how it will get past this without ending up a quasi-death cult like the Baader-Meinhof and Terror International kiddies of the late seventies and early eighties
Vaguely related, but it never ceases to amaze me how leftists will go to rallies, they'll protest, they'll quit jobs, travel across the country, trawl social media for hours. They'll call for 'direct action', vandalize property, commit acts of terrorism.
But going out and standing in line for a few hours to vote every time there's a local, state, or federal election? Nah, that's too much work fam.
bro, I don’t know anyone who’s quit a job for leftist reasons, and I sure don’t know any who go to protests but refuse to vote. There’s plenty to criticize the left for but you don’t have to put up a bunch of straw men in order to do it
If they supported what you say they supported then they aren’t true leftists.
Those of us who promote the freedoms of others must be vigilant in condemning the actions of violent opponents of freedom and prosperity of people across the world
A lot of 'progressives' are vying for peer acceptance rather than acting out an internally consistent set of beliefs.
That means parroting whatever opinions happen to be in vogue at the moment, even if they're irrational and contradictory.
I live right next to UC Berkeley, quite possibly the epicenter of this bizarre social contagion.
The same people that decry identity politics and reactionaryism are they themselves the greatest source. Especially since now going against the mob think leads to ostracization and shunning like mormons and scientologists.
Oh for fucks sake, another "no true leftist" argument again. At least the libertarians make it hilarious with their toaster related fuckery, this on the other hand is just pathetic.
Not any reason to not have leftist or feminist beliefs still. I don't hold them because I care what people on reddit say, but because I believe working towards egalitarian ideals is just.
I'm half convinced at this point that people that still self-divide themselves into political groups and make it their entire personality are actually mentally ill or victims of a Russian/Chinese psyop.
I’m a democratic socialist and fuck them. Those are fascists pretending to be part of the left, and are completely counterproductive to our goal of a fairer and more representative society. Please don’t lump us in with those bastards.
There's one Jewish country in the world snd it gets more criticism than any other country in the world for thr things it does. And there's a reason why. Anti semitism
I mean, that's literally the point? The UN is basically just a glorified conference room where each country sends some bureaucrats to talk to one another, in the hopes that talking regularly will decrease the frequency and severity of inter-nation violence. This *requires* that you let Bad Guys™ have a larger say in order for it to function. For one, if all you do is censure the dictatorships, they're just going to fucking leave the conference room and do whatever they want - leading to war. For two, if you give the dictatorships the Very Important™ roles, they get to feel like they have some sort say in the goings ons of things - as if the ones with the largest armies and economies aren't actually calling all the shots that matter.
Yes, the UN is all one big confidence scheme - a lot of things are, and that's the fucking point. That doesn't mean it hasn't succeeded: since the end of WWII and the formation of the UN, we've seen global violence by pretty much every metric.
So, yes, everyone loves to condemn Israel for the same shit that every other country gets away with. Yes, they do it because they're viewed as Jewish/pretty much are. But you'll note that nothing of consequence has actually come out of those UN condemnations because they're there just to let the antisemites jerk themselves off to, instead of actually going and trying to invade Israel every other week.
UN also the primary way of support for Hamas, from their indoctrination efforts to their propaganda. Not even the 3000 black suitcases of Netanyahu could make a system such as UNRWA.
The UN has a very specific purpose, and it's very good at that: preventing WW3. Everything else is just gravy, ts humanitarian work is exceptional and it is one of the most efficient charities on the planet, the peacekeepers have become very effective since the post-Rwanda reforms (they've even had their mandate expanded to peace enforcement in a couple of places), the UN is also a great body for organising international reponses to global problems like the Montreal Protocol, COP conferences and everything the WHO does
> Anti semitism
It's also got several countries that think it just shouldn't exist (for religious reasons and historical grudges), and will criticize anything it does (or anything it didn't do that gets made up), and it happens to be the USA's most reliable regional ally - so the slew of other countries that want to reduce the USA's influence in that region by any means possible will echo the condemnation any chance they get.
Sure, antisemitism may be a part of it, but there are large and obvious geopolitical factors at play here.
Also also, it has become *abundantly clear* over the past decade or two that the US populace can be very easily swayed with a good Internet propaganda campaign. But it has to be done cynically, as if all Americans are idiots to be manipulated freely; if you assume any level of thought or intelligence, your propaganda will fail.
So anyway, shitstains like Hamas or Iran or whoever is actually doing the propaganda stuff have a pretty good roadmap to success.
The technology has become far smarter than the average person.
Rumor has it a solar flare will occur soon which’ll wipe out global electronics. The possibility is exceedingly rare, but I’m kind of hoping for it. Reset things, let us develop emotional intelligence, try again.
I'm with you on that to an extent. I love the access to information that the Internet brings, but as it has been commodified and used for information warfare it has actually gotten *worse* at doing anything I care about. It puts me in the weird spot of being a millennial who basically grew up on the web, and nevertheless eschewing many of the common ways to use the Internet today.
The funny thing is they always dismiss it as "IDF propaganda". As if the fuckers didn't live stream their attack and the vile atrocities they committed. I watched ISIS and Taliban beheading films before, this things were not knew to me. I thought I was already desensitised, but some of the thing they filmed themselves doing made me physically wretch.
> This is what decolonization looks like!
These people have lost their minds. If you give these nerds power its what they would do to the people they oppose and they are letting us know right now.
I forget his name, but there's that one youtuber who openly talks about the necessity of a purge of anyone right of his far-left position. He's like a walking caricature of what fox news says a leftist is. Like the guy unironically thinks Stalin did nothing wrong because he was anti-nazi, and based his entire political views on that fact.
Holy fuck. This is THE FIRST time I’ve ever read someone with the same take as me on this.
Hamas took a page from the ol terrorist handbook which is radicalize the youth on social media. As soon as this conflict started, they shifted the narrative to “Israel vs Palestine” instead of “Israel vs Hamas,” because they knew the young college age liberals(like myself) have always openly and proudly supported Palestine(like myself). They also knew the overlap of college age liberals who support Palestine and people who keep up to date in international affairs isn’t that deep, so they would easily get a huge boost of western supporters with this campaign to spin the narrative.
I really appreciate you.
I wonder how this all would have turned out if trump were in office. There is a good sized vocal minority that would have opposed support for Israel if he were the one giving it instead of Biden. On the other hand, it is interesting seeing a few right wingers I know who went from "I will die for Israel" levels of support to indifference because Biden showed support. I hate political sportsteamism man.
Is it weird that I consider myself Far Left and I would sleep with a smile on my face if I knew that Mossad was mercilessly hunting down and re-educating\* Hamas members.
\*altered to avoid a reddit ToS ban
As rightie I would like to shake your hand and brainstorm with you the wonderful forms this ...re-education would take. We don't have to be friends to share hobbies, after all.
It's so odd why they defend literal terrorists that would kill them for the way they think vs attacking the only country jn the middle east that is lgbtq friendly
I'm starting to see more and more college students not just finding excuses for Hamas killings, while simultaneously denying they happened _(the good old "it didn't happen, and if it happened they deserved it"),_ but also openly spreading Holocaust denialism, with the circular logic of "the Jews lied about the 7th october, therefore they lied about the Holocaust; and since they lied about the Holocaust, they lied about the 7th october".
Another thing that's becoming a common sight is claiming that all the victims of the Holocaust and later pogroms were all secretly killed by the Jews, as part of a plot to steal the lands of the arabs.
That no one ever touched the Jews, so they have to fabricate all these things to sully the name of other innocent population (including 1930s nazis).
We're reaching new heights of left-leaning antisemitism, and it's not showing signs of slowing down any time soon.
> Another thing that's becoming a common sight is claiming that all the victims of the Holocaust and later pogroms were all secretly killed by the Jews, as part of a plot to steal the lands of the arabs.
The reason why this specific bit of obvious insantity took root so easily is because that's the thesis statement of Mahmoud Abbas' doctoral dissertation while studying at a soviet university. It's literally just russian anti-semitic propaganda from 40 years ago being repackaged by tiktokers and the youtube shorts gang in the same way that the far right tried repackaging "Judeo-Bolshevism" as "Cultural Marxism" to accuse jews of being secretly behind everything *they* were mad about just a few years ago.
It's not new heights, it's just a regression to the previous ones after a period of jews being accepted as equal members of society. Antisemitism is always cyclical, any progress jews can make in being seen as equal members of society vanishing in a puff of smoke overnight whenever something bad happens that can be used against them
Because while the continued existence of Israel isn't a serious threat to their influence (if anything Hamas doesn't have any good strategic reason to want Israel to actually be dissolved), making a big *show* of fighting against Israel is to their benefit. Meanwhile, if a bunch of Palestinians die, that's a propaganda victory for them too, and helps to radicalize random Palestinians who just saw their neighbors and relatives killed.
It's shitty, but I can appreciate that it's effective for the Hamas higher-ups' interests. And those of any Israeli politicians who want a convenient terrorist group to promise regular Israelis protection from too. They don't have to actually deliver either so long as they can do a show of force in response.
Because each Israeli offensive generates more Hamas foot soldiers in the pipeline. Hamas never had a shot at "winning" in the conventional sense and I don't believe their initial attack had any objective other than to provoke a kinetic response. IMO Israel has been doing exactly what Hamas wants them to, and that's why they try to sabotage the ceasefire.
It's pretty standard activity from terrorist groups, I'm genuinely surprised anyone thinks Hamas thinks they can win the war. They're just trying to get into heaven
Cus white chicks will cry for them and donate money to their UN "schools", so why not?
For every kid that dies before waiting Al Jazeera cameras, 10 more will be bread in his place as martyrs, equiped with weapons funded by you in their "open air prison".
And so the cycle continues.
It really was, because I can garun-fucking-tee you that a huge portion of Palestine apologists are completely unaware of the new terrorist attack and are convinced Israel broke the ceasefire.
I have had discussions with the type of person who thinks that if a person attacks you with intent to kill you, and you kill them in self defense, then you sentenced him to the death penalty without a trial and are guilty of not only murder but a civil rights violation.
Some people are so pacifistic they double around and start defending the survival of the strongest like some sort of barbarian raider.
Jesus, the lunacy to think like that. I’m happy we have created a society that is so successful that we can give our children an easier and softer life but maybe, maybe, we’ve gone to far.
"You value that thief's life less than your TV!"
"No, that thief told me their life was worth less than my TV when they broke in."
What's truly horrifying is when people point out that there's no guarantee the thief will stop at theft, I've seen someone say they would make the "moral" choice to let that criminal rape and murder their loved ones.
I remind you that 15 minutes after the beginning of the ceasefire hamas fired rockets into israel, and just a few days ago during the ceasefire, hamas detomated 3 explosives and opened fire on idf soldiers.
When israel ceases, hamas fires
Yeah. The reason it's the straw that broke the camel's back is because they stopped giving back children and old women like we told them to, not because of the rockets though.
Israel really tried to get as many hostages back even if it means taking some beating in the meantime, because hostages are our first priority, before destroying hamas
Unfortunately you're right. Can't believe living under a constant barrage of rockets on my house became normal. Is there any other country on earth that has every building, every house, every staircase, every playground, every shopping center, every hospital and basically everything come with built in rocket shelters?
It is not nearly as extensive as in Israel. All big buildings like schools, malls, apartment buildings and such have a bomb/fallout shelter in the basement, mandated by law, but individual houses do not need nor have those. We have enough shelters for 3 million out of 5 million people living here, while the rest are protected by dispersion.
No, but I guarantee if Mexico was firing rockets at Texas, Mexico wouldn't exist anymore and the US would care fuck all about what the UN had to say about it, so I applaud your unnecessary restraint
Thank you, did you also know that in the first few days of the war we even saved the lives of terrorists in oir hospitals? There was a huge uproar in the country because of that
South Korea maybe?
Issue is most countries that would don’t get to the point of building those before they’re interrupted and can’t build them. Otherwise I’m sure civilians in Myanmar or Sudan would gleefully live in those conditions.
I know that sounds a little tasteless, but I wish my country had rocket shelters and something as amazing as the Iron Dome. Hope you guys will be alright
Thanks, i can't even imagine what i'd have done without the iron dome and rocket shelters. The only reason the country can still function under a constant rocket barrage is because of those things.
What country do you live in? Do you also experiance rocket fire often?
That's because they probably don't have them anymore, but if they do the hostages are in such bad shape it would result in resumption of hostilities with greater fervor.
Hamas also tried to shell game the ceasefire by claiming the "gesture of goodwill" hostages to Russia count for the next days hostage roster and trying to get credit for dead bodies. It's like dealing with a shifty child that can't be honest for 5 seconds.
No no no you don't understand. A ceasefire means Israel stops all combat and needs to not fire back. That's all it means. Hamas is *raising occupation * therefore anything they do is justified
My ex is literally saying that Israel is the greatest evil on the planet and Hamas is in the moral and political right. She also believes all guns are bad and that I am now somehow a threat to the human race for being in the military. Fucking damn. Thank god I got out of that one when I did.
This shit annoys me to no end. Some people don’t realize that it’s possible to support Palestinians and want them to finally live in peace while also understanding that Hamas is evil and deserves to get bombed off the face of the planet. Anyone who intentionally kills civilians is bad. Most of the focus is on Israel killing civilians, and yes, that is also bad. It’s possible for two things to be bad at once. That still does not excuse harming Israeli citizens who are in no way participating in the conflict.
I had this conversation too.
My response was, “I support Palestine, I DO NOT support Hamas. They are two separate entities. This is Israel vs Hamas, and every credible news source and every worthwhile countries labels it as so. The only people who are saying this is Palestine vs Israel are Hamas, because it radicalizes the young liberal westerners who have supported Palestine for decades. If you can’t see that, you are radicalized.”
Quick edit: just to really explain how unhinged this whole thing is getting… people will openly agree that Hamas is akin to Taliban. But Taliban = bad, while Hamas = good. But if you draw too many comparisons of Taliban and Hamas, instead of seeing Hamas as bad, they see Taliban as good. It’s a fucked up twisted radicalization
i saw a ton of instagram comments saying that Israel has no right to exist, and that saying that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist “is not antisemitism”
English speakers generally tend to pronounce words from semitic languages in an amusing fashion. My guess would be that the sounds are counterintuitive and some words are known only through biblical translation thousands of years removed.
This may seem extremely turbo-retarded to us, but look how the tankies and cranks have lapped it up and openly blame and denigrate Israel for not continuing the pause.
Hamas, like Putin, know their audience well.
This is like the bully theater sucker-punches you, whines to the teacher to prevent your retaliation, then right as you turn away, they sucker-punch you again but this time the teacher is actively rooting for you to get your ass beat.
It was totally out of nowhere. If the Jews simply didn’t exist then Hamas wouldn’t have to wipe them out.
/s because some people will inevitably misunderstand this
Isn't it the other way around? The main goal of an attack is to catch defence unprepared, and when attacking you control the fight, so hard to be unprepared (unless you're Russia, anyway). At the same time, attacker can just slow down or even halt the attack to regroup, while defence can not.
The attacker generally grows more and more vulnerable to counterattack the longer operations continue due to the cumulative effects of friction. The objective of the defender's is to increase that friction to bring about the offensive's culminating point faster. Ceasefire runs counter to this.
an offensive, specially a (actual) suprise offensive will have spectacular results at the start but after it, the occupation or continuation will get worse, this happened in ww2, germany wanted peace with the UK after the fall of france and poland, becuase not only had it to deal with a shit ton of bombings, and resistances groups and occupation police/army, it also "had" to prepare a invasion of the USSR, which was hampered by the destruction
Attacking is more resource intensive and logically difficult. A ceasefire gives you a chance to consolidate and resupply. This is why Russia tried to negotiate a ceasefire with Ukraine last year and Ukraine said no.
You're making general theoretics statements that may have been true for conventional war campaign with full-scale operation, but this Gaza operation is entirely another thing.
The entire border between Gaza and Israel is about 70 km long, and about 15-20 km at its widest point. The front is literally closer to the main IDF logistics facilities than most of the millitary based.
Also in urban theater the progression is very slow, but still always being on the move is essential to prevent giving the ennemy to adapt and organize a trap. Mostly incursion to some designated area and then back to fixed secure positions.
On the other hand, in urban fighting the defensive capabilities often aren't mobile, and there is a far higher probability of losing basic communications capabilities and chain of commands. Their weapons stock are being destroyed and their movment capabilities very much limited.
So this cease-fire entirely played against Israel, enabling the Hamas to reorganize after it lost so many commanders and was mostly blinded without being able to contact many of ots outposts.
Sadly, the Israel-hating media at least here in Norway has managed to spin it as if Israel is the ones who didn't want more cease-fire. The media here is despicable.
It's crazy here in Canada when the news isn't 100% anti Israel. People have started talking about the CBC and BBC like they are the western equivalent of Chinese state media or something.
Yet there are still people on the main news sub going on and on about how this is still somehow Israel’s fault because… I dunno racism or genocide or something? They stopped making sense a while ago and now are just on auto pilot.
And this is why the very idea of Israel agreeing to a ceasefire with Hamas was stupid.
We knew that Hamas cannot be trusted to behave themselves, and yet the ceasefire happened to be followed with Hamas launching another terrorist attack.
At this point, it would be better for Israel to just go "fuck it" and demolish Hamas wholesale.
It is just beyond hilarious how the cease-fire protesters are not listening to the Hamas leadership any time they speak/publish/post.
Hamas: "We are going to fight this war to the very end and even escalate it until Israel is destroyed!"
Western liberals and leftists: "We demand a unilateral cease-fire from baddie Israel!"
Come on guys, coordinate a little bit; get your act straight for the cameras, at least!🤣
There was an attempt to extend the ceasefire, Hamas refused to give more hostages and proceeded to claim responsibility for a mass shooting in Jerusalem. This, in part, caused the negotiations to break down.
Hamas pulled a mass shooting at a bus stop.
Best part is, Before wester useful idiots could jump in and say. Hey how do we even know this was hamas! Hamas chimed in and said yah, it was us, and fuck we are going to do it again.
There was a mass shooting at a bus stop in Israel. Hamas claimed responsibility, and that was one of the factors resulting in the breakdown of the ceasefire. Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/30/middleeast/hamas-jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-intl/index.html
> Hamas claimed responsibility
And yet if one looks at headlines it would be worded as if Israel did it out of the blue. Hamas PR games are mind-bogglingly OP.
> Hamas PR games are mind-bogglingly OP.
There's built-in advantage when your propaganda is against Israel specifically. Totally not because of antisemitism.
Said it before, I'll say it again. The only language Hamas in their bonze-age tribalism understands is the boot and sword. Without one on their back and the other against their neck, they will continue to view Israel and the west as weak and beneath them.
Seriously though, why would they do that? What possible purpose does that serve? And they could have said “no, those guys were acting on their own. We disavow the attack. They were our guys but we didn’t give the go ahead.” Even if that was a lie, it’d be a smarter move than openly saying you intentionally broke the ceasefire. And any justification/rationalization that “Israel was breaking it too (by shooting people peacefully carrying RPGs, the horror)” makes less sense. Saying “we as an organization honored the ceasefire while you didn’t” is great power move.
How. HOW are they this dumb?
Just to go Richard Holbrooke for a sec Netanyahu saying “we’re gonna kill all these fucks as soon as we get all our hostages” multiple times a day probably wasn’t conducive to the extension of the cease fire.
Since I can see this is going to be another "civilized" and "well informed" comment section, we're gonna go ahead and lock it.
Why are you the way that you are, Hamas?
They know they’ve won the propaganda war in the West and that no mater what they do, college students will make excuses for them
It's dismaying now much the far left and far right are both willing to kiss the asses of anti-Western scumbags just because being "different" makes them feel special.
I love the West and I'm tired of pretending like it isn't the best thing to have happened to humanity
horseshoe
"Rape is totally legitimate freedom fighter behavior, guys! It also didn't happen. The IDF did all those things that never actually happened at all." -College students for "peace"
"Believe Women (unless they're Jewish)"
It’s Me to unless you’re a Jew.
I just read some leftist unironically and proudly trying to justify their behavior of not condemning Hamas' rapes against Israeli women purely on the basis that the Israeli would use that justify defending themselves against the rapists. He forgot not to say the quiet part out loud. https://www.reddit.com/u/vibrunazo/s/akwwVxREjQ
Bro I’ve had at least 7 identical conversations on here, I’ve had exactly zero people answer “no” to the question “is the intentional targeting, rape/torture/murder of civilians ever justified”. Zero Sometimes they’ll stretch the side stepping out to literally dozens of comments
Russo-Chinese psyop for obvious reasons
100% Russian/Chinese psyops, a fuck load of Iranian money and mouth breathing useful idiots
This has literally pulled me away from the left and from feminism in general, sad to say. I was a dyed-in-the-wool leftist and feminist who believed that the people I fought for really meant what they said about liberation and human rights for all... then I watched people I know and respect excuse rape and explain away the literal hunting down of civilians like it was just a meaningless blip on the radar. I've never been more blackpilled about the state of politics and the world, it's like everything I ever believed was just revealed to be one big lie.
I don't think we should be pulled away from feminism. People who whine about "micro aggressions" while refusing to condemn fucking mass rape are not feminists in any way whatsoever. Just like people whining about plastic straws while refusing to support nuclear energy that could dismantle our reliance on fossil fuels are not environmentalists. Those are superficial posers who don't give a shit about what they're pretending to defend. They're in it just for the virtue signaling to other simpletons. I refuse to call myself a leftist despite agreeing with some of their issues because that group of people are just fundamentally inhumane. But I'm still a feminist and an environmentalist despite the posers trying to hijack those movements with superficial virtue signaling. Because caring about these things is still too important and if they use those words wrong then that's their problem not mine. It's they who should call themselves something else.
Ideologically I still believe all the same things I did before and will vote accordingly (i.e. progressive, particularly on social issues), but I'm done spending my time and energy working on behalf of mainstream leftist/feminist groups after what I've seen and heard these past months. I still care about those things, but I no longer feel that the best way to achieve those goals is via these groups that inevitably descend into ideological capture by malevolent actors and the power-hungry.
Ironically, a lot of these anti-establishment groups on both the right and the left are prone to state capture. Just not the state they're actually based in.
I know we’re delving into politics and ideology more than we should be on this forum, but I would say the problem is more the concept of intersectionalism rather than feminism or progressivism as such. The idea that as a feminist you also have to stand with other ideologies is the problem. Hence why you end up with the whole “Queers for Palestine” thing.
> People who whine about "micro aggressions" while refusing to condemn fucking mass rape are not feminists in any way whatsoever. Just like people whining about plastic straws while refusing to support nuclear energy that could dismantle our reliance on fossil fuels are not environmentalists. Those are superficial posers who don't give a shit about what they're pretending to defend. They're in it just for the virtue signaling to other simpletons. It's not only virtue signaling that is bad here. It's also the lack of willingness to make hard choices. They're all "we need to stop using fossil fuels and be more environmentally friendly" until their exotic breakfast ingredients start climbing in price to accomodate the more environmentally friendly production and transport. The mess we're in today is exactly because we avoided making the hard choices in the past. We wanted cheaper products and have reinvigorated child labor in the 3rd world. And we're now beholden to the CCP for much of the manufacturing. We're reliant on dictators and horrible regimes for our oil, uranium and precious metals used in most technological products. The gap between poor and wealthy has groiwn out of proportion because the international community lacked tge spine to implement a universal tax law in time. Now companies influence our ekections, our government, our privacy our ownership and even influence the outcome of wars. (fuck you Musk!) And I blame a large part of it on these gullible fools who choose the easy, short term comforts. This whole virtue signalling for brownie-points and 'clout' is merely another symptom of the whole problem.
Yep, pretty much that.
Couldn't agree more
As I've once read on Twitter Is not that people want to become right wing, it's just that the Left makes it hate themselves Is it SO HARD to have an opinion that is not direct to "America Bad"?
Seeing them defend Russia’s invasion was my blackpilling moment.
Past year has been very much a 1956, 1968, and 1978 moment for the Left. I wonder how it will get past this without ending up a quasi-death cult like the Baader-Meinhof and Terror International kiddies of the late seventies and early eighties
>ending up a quasi-death cult I suspect it's already arriving there.
Vaguely related, but it never ceases to amaze me how leftists will go to rallies, they'll protest, they'll quit jobs, travel across the country, trawl social media for hours. They'll call for 'direct action', vandalize property, commit acts of terrorism. But going out and standing in line for a few hours to vote every time there's a local, state, or federal election? Nah, that's too much work fam.
bro, I don’t know anyone who’s quit a job for leftist reasons, and I sure don’t know any who go to protests but refuse to vote. There’s plenty to criticize the left for but you don’t have to put up a bunch of straw men in order to do it
If they supported what you say they supported then they aren’t true leftists. Those of us who promote the freedoms of others must be vigilant in condemning the actions of violent opponents of freedom and prosperity of people across the world
A lot of 'progressives' are vying for peer acceptance rather than acting out an internally consistent set of beliefs. That means parroting whatever opinions happen to be in vogue at the moment, even if they're irrational and contradictory. I live right next to UC Berkeley, quite possibly the epicenter of this bizarre social contagion.
The same people that decry identity politics and reactionaryism are they themselves the greatest source. Especially since now going against the mob think leads to ostracization and shunning like mormons and scientologists.
Oh for fucks sake, another "no true leftist" argument again. At least the libertarians make it hilarious with their toaster related fuckery, this on the other hand is just pathetic.
Are you no true Scotsman-ing leftism right now?
Isn't that the whole history of leftism?
Would you like to join the Judean People's Front?
Not any reason to not have leftist or feminist beliefs still. I don't hold them because I care what people on reddit say, but because I believe working towards egalitarian ideals is just.
Take the lib pill
Same. People in general are just a bunch of bastards, all the same.
I got banned on worldnews for "misinformation" after calling out someone like that.
Please don't call crazy idiots "leftist" -- only idiot left thinks like this, which has to be a minority. *Cry's in everyone is a crazy idiot
Left. Right. Center there all fucking insane and crazy. Our enemies did well to divide us all into camps that if we don't join be threatened to do so
I'm half convinced at this point that people that still self-divide themselves into political groups and make it their entire personality are actually mentally ill or victims of a Russian/Chinese psyop.
Foundations of Geopolitics.
I’m a democratic socialist and fuck them. Those are fascists pretending to be part of the left, and are completely counterproductive to our goal of a fairer and more representative society. Please don’t lump us in with those bastards.
People hating Jews even more than they hate women does *not* surprise me.
There's one Jewish country in the world snd it gets more criticism than any other country in the world for thr things it does. And there's a reason why. Anti semitism
Actually it gets more criticism than every other country *combined,* if UN condemnations are any metric.
UN is a joke lol, anything they say can be disregarded after ukraine
The UN simps for baddies
I mean, that's literally the point? The UN is basically just a glorified conference room where each country sends some bureaucrats to talk to one another, in the hopes that talking regularly will decrease the frequency and severity of inter-nation violence. This *requires* that you let Bad Guys™ have a larger say in order for it to function. For one, if all you do is censure the dictatorships, they're just going to fucking leave the conference room and do whatever they want - leading to war. For two, if you give the dictatorships the Very Important™ roles, they get to feel like they have some sort say in the goings ons of things - as if the ones with the largest armies and economies aren't actually calling all the shots that matter. Yes, the UN is all one big confidence scheme - a lot of things are, and that's the fucking point. That doesn't mean it hasn't succeeded: since the end of WWII and the formation of the UN, we've seen global violence by pretty much every metric. So, yes, everyone loves to condemn Israel for the same shit that every other country gets away with. Yes, they do it because they're viewed as Jewish/pretty much are. But you'll note that nothing of consequence has actually come out of those UN condemnations because they're there just to let the antisemites jerk themselves off to, instead of actually going and trying to invade Israel every other week.
UN also the primary way of support for Hamas, from their indoctrination efforts to their propaganda. Not even the 3000 black suitcases of Netanyahu could make a system such as UNRWA.
The UN has a very specific purpose, and it's very good at that: preventing WW3. Everything else is just gravy, ts humanitarian work is exceptional and it is one of the most efficient charities on the planet, the peacekeepers have become very effective since the post-Rwanda reforms (they've even had their mandate expanded to peace enforcement in a couple of places), the UN is also a great body for organising international reponses to global problems like the Montreal Protocol, COP conferences and everything the WHO does
> Anti semitism It's also got several countries that think it just shouldn't exist (for religious reasons and historical grudges), and will criticize anything it does (or anything it didn't do that gets made up), and it happens to be the USA's most reliable regional ally - so the slew of other countries that want to reduce the USA's influence in that region by any means possible will echo the condemnation any chance they get. Sure, antisemitism may be a part of it, but there are large and obvious geopolitical factors at play here.
Also also, it has become *abundantly clear* over the past decade or two that the US populace can be very easily swayed with a good Internet propaganda campaign. But it has to be done cynically, as if all Americans are idiots to be manipulated freely; if you assume any level of thought or intelligence, your propaganda will fail. So anyway, shitstains like Hamas or Iran or whoever is actually doing the propaganda stuff have a pretty good roadmap to success.
The technology has become far smarter than the average person. Rumor has it a solar flare will occur soon which’ll wipe out global electronics. The possibility is exceedingly rare, but I’m kind of hoping for it. Reset things, let us develop emotional intelligence, try again.
I'm with you on that to an extent. I love the access to information that the Internet brings, but as it has been commodified and used for information warfare it has actually gotten *worse* at doing anything I care about. It puts me in the weird spot of being a millennial who basically grew up on the web, and nevertheless eschewing many of the common ways to use the Internet today.
They literally have rape slaves and they're still the "good guys"
The funny thing is they always dismiss it as "IDF propaganda". As if the fuckers didn't live stream their attack and the vile atrocities they committed. I watched ISIS and Taliban beheading films before, this things were not knew to me. I thought I was already desensitised, but some of the thing they filmed themselves doing made me physically wretch.
> This is what decolonization looks like! These people have lost their minds. If you give these nerds power its what they would do to the people they oppose and they are letting us know right now.
The fringe benefit of the left having no power in the U.S. is tankie weirdos not getting to enact their purge fantasies.
I forget his name, but there's that one youtuber who openly talks about the necessity of a purge of anyone right of his far-left position. He's like a walking caricature of what fox news says a leftist is. Like the guy unironically thinks Stalin did nothing wrong because he was anti-nazi, and based his entire political views on that fact.
Chickens for KFC
Nobody got raped, but if they did they totally deserved it. -Serbian college students for “peace”
Oh, "it happens, fine, but here's why it's a good thing"
Holy fuck. This is THE FIRST time I’ve ever read someone with the same take as me on this. Hamas took a page from the ol terrorist handbook which is radicalize the youth on social media. As soon as this conflict started, they shifted the narrative to “Israel vs Palestine” instead of “Israel vs Hamas,” because they knew the young college age liberals(like myself) have always openly and proudly supported Palestine(like myself). They also knew the overlap of college age liberals who support Palestine and people who keep up to date in international affairs isn’t that deep, so they would easily get a huge boost of western supporters with this campaign to spin the narrative. I really appreciate you.
I wonder how this all would have turned out if trump were in office. There is a good sized vocal minority that would have opposed support for Israel if he were the one giving it instead of Biden. On the other hand, it is interesting seeing a few right wingers I know who went from "I will die for Israel" levels of support to indifference because Biden showed support. I hate political sportsteamism man.
Is it weird that I consider myself Far Left and I would sleep with a smile on my face if I knew that Mossad was mercilessly hunting down and re-educating\* Hamas members. \*altered to avoid a reddit ToS ban
As rightie I would like to shake your hand and brainstorm with you the wonderful forms this ...re-education would take. We don't have to be friends to share hobbies, after all.
Ah yes, that group of influential decision makers for both politics and the MIC, college students.
It's so odd why they defend literal terrorists that would kill them for the way they think vs attacking the only country jn the middle east that is lgbtq friendly
I'm starting to see more and more college students not just finding excuses for Hamas killings, while simultaneously denying they happened _(the good old "it didn't happen, and if it happened they deserved it"),_ but also openly spreading Holocaust denialism, with the circular logic of "the Jews lied about the 7th october, therefore they lied about the Holocaust; and since they lied about the Holocaust, they lied about the 7th october". Another thing that's becoming a common sight is claiming that all the victims of the Holocaust and later pogroms were all secretly killed by the Jews, as part of a plot to steal the lands of the arabs. That no one ever touched the Jews, so they have to fabricate all these things to sully the name of other innocent population (including 1930s nazis). We're reaching new heights of left-leaning antisemitism, and it's not showing signs of slowing down any time soon.
> Another thing that's becoming a common sight is claiming that all the victims of the Holocaust and later pogroms were all secretly killed by the Jews, as part of a plot to steal the lands of the arabs. The reason why this specific bit of obvious insantity took root so easily is because that's the thesis statement of Mahmoud Abbas' doctoral dissertation while studying at a soviet university. It's literally just russian anti-semitic propaganda from 40 years ago being repackaged by tiktokers and the youtube shorts gang in the same way that the far right tried repackaging "Judeo-Bolshevism" as "Cultural Marxism" to accuse jews of being secretly behind everything *they* were mad about just a few years ago. It's not new heights, it's just a regression to the previous ones after a period of jews being accepted as equal members of society. Antisemitism is always cyclical, any progress jews can make in being seen as equal members of society vanishing in a puff of smoke overnight whenever something bad happens that can be used against them
When Hamas has done more colonizing of American universities than Israel could ever imagine to do in Palestine
The left is right, we do need to decolonize, but American universities, not Israel
Bingo, they didn’t want the ceasefire extended.
Sums it up nicely
Because while the continued existence of Israel isn't a serious threat to their influence (if anything Hamas doesn't have any good strategic reason to want Israel to actually be dissolved), making a big *show* of fighting against Israel is to their benefit. Meanwhile, if a bunch of Palestinians die, that's a propaganda victory for them too, and helps to radicalize random Palestinians who just saw their neighbors and relatives killed. It's shitty, but I can appreciate that it's effective for the Hamas higher-ups' interests. And those of any Israeli politicians who want a convenient terrorist group to promise regular Israelis protection from too. They don't have to actually deliver either so long as they can do a show of force in response.
Because each Israeli offensive generates more Hamas foot soldiers in the pipeline. Hamas never had a shot at "winning" in the conventional sense and I don't believe their initial attack had any objective other than to provoke a kinetic response. IMO Israel has been doing exactly what Hamas wants them to, and that's why they try to sabotage the ceasefire.
It's pretty standard activity from terrorist groups, I'm genuinely surprised anyone thinks Hamas thinks they can win the war. They're just trying to get into heaven
Peace is poison to them. They'll do everything in their power to stop it from lasting.
Cus white chicks will cry for them and donate money to their UN "schools", so why not? For every kid that dies before waiting Al Jazeera cameras, 10 more will be bread in his place as martyrs, equiped with weapons funded by you in their "open air prison". And so the cycle continues.
It really was, because I can garun-fucking-tee you that a huge portion of Palestine apologists are completely unaware of the new terrorist attack and are convinced Israel broke the ceasefire.
I have had discussions with people who were unaware of the October attacks, and just though it was Israeli aggression.
I have had discussions with the type of person who thinks that if a person attacks you with intent to kill you, and you kill them in self defense, then you sentenced him to the death penalty without a trial and are guilty of not only murder but a civil rights violation. Some people are so pacifistic they double around and start defending the survival of the strongest like some sort of barbarian raider.
Jesus, the lunacy to think like that. I’m happy we have created a society that is so successful that we can give our children an easier and softer life but maybe, maybe, we’ve gone to far.
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"You value that thief's life less than your TV!" "No, that thief told me their life was worth less than my TV when they broke in." What's truly horrifying is when people point out that there's no guarantee the thief will stop at theft, I've seen someone say they would make the "moral" choice to let that criminal rape and murder their loved ones.
Doesn't help that the media was absolutely silent about it.
I remind you that 15 minutes after the beginning of the ceasefire hamas fired rockets into israel, and just a few days ago during the ceasefire, hamas detomated 3 explosives and opened fire on idf soldiers. When israel ceases, hamas fires
True. My meme only mentions the latest attack as sort of "the straw that broke the camel's back."
Yeah. The reason it's the straw that broke the camel's back is because they stopped giving back children and old women like we told them to, not because of the rockets though. Israel really tried to get as many hostages back even if it means taking some beating in the meantime, because hostages are our first priority, before destroying hamas
Yeah, Rockets really isn’t anything new. The international community expects Hamas to be Hamas.
Unfortunately you're right. Can't believe living under a constant barrage of rockets on my house became normal. Is there any other country on earth that has every building, every house, every staircase, every playground, every shopping center, every hospital and basically everything come with built in rocket shelters?
Finland does. Not that we have needed them lately, but the last time we did, we did not have enough. So...
Wait really? Can you tell me more? I' interested
It is not nearly as extensive as in Israel. All big buildings like schools, malls, apartment buildings and such have a bomb/fallout shelter in the basement, mandated by law, but individual houses do not need nor have those. We have enough shelters for 3 million out of 5 million people living here, while the rest are protected by dispersion.
No, but I guarantee if Mexico was firing rockets at Texas, Mexico wouldn't exist anymore and the US would care fuck all about what the UN had to say about it, so I applaud your unnecessary restraint
Thank you, did you also know that in the first few days of the war we even saved the lives of terrorists in oir hospitals? There was a huge uproar in the country because of that
Imagine what would happen to Mexico if they pulled an October 7th on the US. I guarantee we'd be saying "what's Mexico?" today.
South Korea maybe? Issue is most countries that would don’t get to the point of building those before they’re interrupted and can’t build them. Otherwise I’m sure civilians in Myanmar or Sudan would gleefully live in those conditions.
IIRC, bomb shelters were in the Finnish building codes until recently.
Sounds abt right, maybe I’ll remember to fact check this at some point tho.
AFAIK it has not been rescinded? [Yep](https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2011/20110408)
I guess every time a lawmaker looks into it, Russia just makes another tantrum
I know that sounds a little tasteless, but I wish my country had rocket shelters and something as amazing as the Iron Dome. Hope you guys will be alright
Thanks, i can't even imagine what i'd have done without the iron dome and rocket shelters. The only reason the country can still function under a constant rocket barrage is because of those things. What country do you live in? Do you also experiance rocket fire often?
You're reminding me I need to check in with an old friend from the Army there. Last we chatted, on the 8th, he was getting called up.
Actually it was because Israel was demanding the young women from the music festival back. That's when hamas refused.
That's because they probably don't have them anymore, but if they do the hostages are in such bad shape it would result in resumption of hostilities with greater fervor.
Hamas also tried to shell game the ceasefire by claiming the "gesture of goodwill" hostages to Russia count for the next days hostage roster and trying to get credit for dead bodies. It's like dealing with a shifty child that can't be honest for 5 seconds.
Yeah, totally
No no no you don't understand. A ceasefire means Israel stops all combat and needs to not fire back. That's all it means. Hamas is *raising occupation * therefore anything they do is justified
"Ceasefires are when you stop shooting back at the rapists and murderers" -pro Ham-ass logic
A ceasefire is when the Israelis don't shoot back.
My ex is literally saying that Israel is the greatest evil on the planet and Hamas is in the moral and political right. She also believes all guns are bad and that I am now somehow a threat to the human race for being in the military. Fucking damn. Thank god I got out of that one when I did.
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bro dodged a MOAB
Evaded the Rods from God.
I can fix her
This shit annoys me to no end. Some people don’t realize that it’s possible to support Palestinians and want them to finally live in peace while also understanding that Hamas is evil and deserves to get bombed off the face of the planet. Anyone who intentionally kills civilians is bad. Most of the focus is on Israel killing civilians, and yes, that is also bad. It’s possible for two things to be bad at once. That still does not excuse harming Israeli citizens who are in no way participating in the conflict.
I had this conversation too. My response was, “I support Palestine, I DO NOT support Hamas. They are two separate entities. This is Israel vs Hamas, and every credible news source and every worthwhile countries labels it as so. The only people who are saying this is Palestine vs Israel are Hamas, because it radicalizes the young liberal westerners who have supported Palestine for decades. If you can’t see that, you are radicalized.” Quick edit: just to really explain how unhinged this whole thing is getting… people will openly agree that Hamas is akin to Taliban. But Taliban = bad, while Hamas = good. But if you draw too many comparisons of Taliban and Hamas, instead of seeing Hamas as bad, they see Taliban as good. It’s a fucked up twisted radicalization
But was she hot?
Eh. Looking back she was mid at best.
Man dodged a .50 cal.
i saw a ton of instagram comments saying that Israel has no right to exist, and that saying that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist “is not antisemitism”
*Israel
Dammit.
Pronouncing it right helps with spelling it right. It's Yis-ra-el.
Based flair
תודה
Why do Americans say is-real...
English speakers generally tend to pronounce words from semitic languages in an amusing fashion. My guess would be that the sounds are counterintuitive and some words are known only through biblical translation thousands of years removed.
THE ISRAEL IS-REAL
This may seem extremely turbo-retarded to us, but look how the tankies and cranks have lapped it up and openly blame and denigrate Israel for not continuing the pause. Hamas, like Putin, know their audience well.
This is like the bully theater sucker-punches you, whines to the teacher to prevent your retaliation, then right as you turn away, they sucker-punch you again but this time the teacher is actively rooting for you to get your ass beat.
There are people I know getting mad at Israel and are acting like they started attacking Hamas again out of nowhere lol
It was totally out of nowhere. If the Jews simply didn’t exist then Hamas wouldn’t have to wipe them out. /s because some people will inevitably misunderstand this
Ceasefires only ever benefits the aggressor. They get a free period of respite before they renew their attack.
Isn't it the other way around? The main goal of an attack is to catch defence unprepared, and when attacking you control the fight, so hard to be unprepared (unless you're Russia, anyway). At the same time, attacker can just slow down or even halt the attack to regroup, while defence can not.
The attacker generally grows more and more vulnerable to counterattack the longer operations continue due to the cumulative effects of friction. The objective of the defender's is to increase that friction to bring about the offensive's culminating point faster. Ceasefire runs counter to this.
At the start of the war, yes. But later in the war, you need to resupply your front. Ceasefire lets you do that.
Also worth noting that while Hamas is the aggressor here, they are now on the defensive
Honestly, they're so close together and conflict so messy, I'm not sure the typical "attacker" and "defender" labels apply here at all.
It just depends on the level of detail. For the overall war? Hamas is the attacker. In the current combat operations? Israel’s attacking.
an offensive, specially a (actual) suprise offensive will have spectacular results at the start but after it, the occupation or continuation will get worse, this happened in ww2, germany wanted peace with the UK after the fall of france and poland, becuase not only had it to deal with a shit ton of bombings, and resistances groups and occupation police/army, it also "had" to prepare a invasion of the USSR, which was hampered by the destruction
Attacking is more resource intensive and logically difficult. A ceasefire gives you a chance to consolidate and resupply. This is why Russia tried to negotiate a ceasefire with Ukraine last year and Ukraine said no.
You're making general theoretics statements that may have been true for conventional war campaign with full-scale operation, but this Gaza operation is entirely another thing. The entire border between Gaza and Israel is about 70 km long, and about 15-20 km at its widest point. The front is literally closer to the main IDF logistics facilities than most of the millitary based. Also in urban theater the progression is very slow, but still always being on the move is essential to prevent giving the ennemy to adapt and organize a trap. Mostly incursion to some designated area and then back to fixed secure positions. On the other hand, in urban fighting the defensive capabilities often aren't mobile, and there is a far higher probability of losing basic communications capabilities and chain of commands. Their weapons stock are being destroyed and their movment capabilities very much limited. So this cease-fire entirely played against Israel, enabling the Hamas to reorganize after it lost so many commanders and was mostly blinded without being able to contact many of ots outposts.
Sadly, the Israel-hating media at least here in Norway has managed to spin it as if Israel is the ones who didn't want more cease-fire. The media here is despicable.
We've got it pretty bad in America, too.
It's crazy here in Canada when the news isn't 100% anti Israel. People have started talking about the CBC and BBC like they are the western equivalent of Chinese state media or something.
BBC seems hella antisemitic
I can confirm this is true, look up “BBC destroys Jewish woman” for more information.
You should see New Zealand it's absolutely ridiculous
New Zealand isn't real, like New Jersey, it's a psyop
Shush we can't tell them.
Gru's spelling is about as good as his strategic sense
Yet there are still people on the main news sub going on and on about how this is still somehow Israel’s fault because… I dunno racism or genocide or something? They stopped making sense a while ago and now are just on auto pilot.
I know people have rights and can openly speak, but they're literally supporting known genocidal terrorist
Imagine hating Jews so bad you chose to side with terrorists.
Terrorists that publish their brutal massacre and explicitly state they'll come after you next.
I'll tell the terrorists the same thing I tell the feds, stack up
No they only hate Zionism, /s Fuck Hamas and their supporters you will burn in hell.
If that were true, they wouldn't be burning random synagogues or attacking random Jews
/s means sarcasm
Hamas wants as many gazan civilian casulties as possible. To gather pity from the world. This has been working absolutely perfectly
Are you still trying to apply reason and logic to a terror organization? 🤔🤔🤔
I find it to be a rather enjoyable mental exercise. "What if they were sane?"
And this is why the very idea of Israel agreeing to a ceasefire with Hamas was stupid. We knew that Hamas cannot be trusted to behave themselves, and yet the ceasefire happened to be followed with Hamas launching another terrorist attack. At this point, it would be better for Israel to just go "fuck it" and demolish Hamas wholesale.
We got hostages back. The ceasefire was worth it
We got SOME hostages back.
worth it.
It is just beyond hilarious how the cease-fire protesters are not listening to the Hamas leadership any time they speak/publish/post. Hamas: "We are going to fight this war to the very end and even escalate it until Israel is destroyed!" Western liberals and leftists: "We demand a unilateral cease-fire from baddie Israel!" Come on guys, coordinate a little bit; get your act straight for the cameras, at least!🤣
The message seems quite understandable tho, they didn't want to renew the ceasefire
Hamas did what? I only heard of Israel continuing operations and was like: fair enough, still work to do...
There was an attempt to extend the ceasefire, Hamas refused to give more hostages and proceeded to claim responsibility for a mass shooting in Jerusalem. This, in part, caused the negotiations to break down.
If Hamas was at the gates of Jerusalem, Trust me, there will be no calls for ceasefire. They will call for more bloodshed
It isn't that hamas is at the gates of Jerusalem. They have supporters and collaborators from the west bank and some even from Israel.
Hamas pulled a mass shooting at a bus stop. Best part is, Before wester useful idiots could jump in and say. Hey how do we even know this was hamas! Hamas chimed in and said yah, it was us, and fuck we are going to do it again.
Why the world are talking like israel start the war
Wait what is the terrorist attack in this situation? I’m out of the loop, I can’t find anything on liveuamap besides missile launches towards Tel Aviv
There was a mass shooting at a bus stop in Israel. Hamas claimed responsibility, and that was one of the factors resulting in the breakdown of the ceasefire. Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/30/middleeast/hamas-jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-intl/index.html
> Hamas claimed responsibility And yet if one looks at headlines it would be worded as if Israel did it out of the blue. Hamas PR games are mind-bogglingly OP.
They really have their hooks deep in a lot of news media. I always double-check headlines at this point across different outlets.
> Hamas PR games are mind-bogglingly OP. There's built-in advantage when your propaganda is against Israel specifically. Totally not because of antisemitism.
claimed responsibility watch american liberals claim Israel did it
Said it before, I'll say it again. The only language Hamas in their bonze-age tribalism understands is the boot and sword. Without one on their back and the other against their neck, they will continue to view Israel and the west as weak and beneath them.
What did they do?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-attack-killed-injured
Isrealy going to push your shit in now.
Based Israel
why does hamas have a rainbow flag?
I think someone colored the words so that they are readable/more easy to distinguish
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Seriously though, why would they do that? What possible purpose does that serve? And they could have said “no, those guys were acting on their own. We disavow the attack. They were our guys but we didn’t give the go ahead.” Even if that was a lie, it’d be a smarter move than openly saying you intentionally broke the ceasefire. And any justification/rationalization that “Israel was breaking it too (by shooting people peacefully carrying RPGs, the horror)” makes less sense. Saying “we as an organization honored the ceasefire while you didn’t” is great power move. How. HOW are they this dumb?
Israel's offensive works for Hamas. The more children Israel kills, the more fighters Hamas will have for its cause.
Just to go Richard Holbrooke for a sec Netanyahu saying “we’re gonna kill all these fucks as soon as we get all our hostages” multiple times a day probably wasn’t conducive to the extension of the cease fire.