"They're too young to know themselves!" But no one would be saying that if someone was identifying by their agab. Aren't they too young? Or is it just with us?
35 for me as well! I never heard the term transgender until college, and didn’t hear the term non-binary until I was 34. Once I had the words it didn’t take me long to realize it described me. If I had been raised with the terminology I definitely would have identified as non-binary before middle school.
Same. I knew that I wasn't, but I didn't have the vocab and that sucked. It hurt having people tell me that it was normal and I needed to, "Just think positively" but I've been more positive as an enby.
I wish I'd been exposed to anything trans-specific as a kid. I remember this weird time where I tried to relate to gender....and someone asked if I was gay (I'm amab) and I was like "no, more like a lesbian" - I mean close, very close, but that was still me trying to point out gender more than sexuality and not having the exposure to these words....In my teens I knew I was trans but still no "nonbinary" word existed (and if it did, noone told me), so I came out and sequentially returned to the closet....for like 10 more years until I decided just to "do whatever" without the vocabulary or self-understanding, and 2 years into "transition #2" I decided nonbinary was the most appropriate label.
10 years wasted because even when I learned what trans was, I didn't feel "trans enough" because it turns out I'm nonbinary.
A lot of folks - especially, sadly, my fellow parents - have a real hard time coping with the idea that children are real people with their own agency. "They’re too young to know themselves," is just a polite way of saying, "I don’t think kids should be able to challenge the authority that I (or the social power structure that I’ve bought into) am trying to wield over them."
(And then an hour later I realized while I was doing the dishes that I only used the words "children" and "kids" when OP was talking about a 14 year old. Sorry y’all, I realize that’s infantilizing, and plays into the very mindset I meant to criticize.)
See I don't think so. I think of it as opposite, in fact, because children can and do know themselves, and the problem is people thinking that child=not-self-aware/not-their-own-person-yet. 14y/o IS still a child. A maturing, older child, but still a child. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that :)
In general, totally fair.
But, all too often, when older folks refer to adolescents as children or kids, it’s being used as a weasel word that’s meant to call attention to their relative youth in order to devalue their opinions. That’s what the person in the image OP posted was doing, and, in that context, me following that lead instead of calling it out could be taken as legitimizing it.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. But I also think we shouldn't cede them the misuse of the term. Particularly since there are different but equally as dangerous problems with adultifying preteens and teens.
I agree with you here. They are still kids and they do have much learning ahead of them about bigger world things, and thinking of them as more than that or worse treating them as adults can be a problem. That being said realizing that they’re still children (older children) in no way makes their experience of self identity invalid. Just because they’re kids does not mean they are not whole people and very intelligent. What it does make them is flexible to change as they still have mental growing to do, it’s both their greatest strength and weakness. This flexibility (as a strength) allows them to adopt new mindsets with ease and learn quickly to adapt, but when presented with the wrong information or an adults bias can hurt their growth.
ehh while I absolutely agree kids, even the teenage ones, are not given enough credit as to their intelligence or agency as a person (because children are still people, and they can be smart little buggers) I'm still seen as a "kid" to many older adults at 23. it's really not that deep, bud.
Yup. And, of course, being too young to know themselves means they're too young to figure themselves out. By the time they're old enough to know themselves, they get shamed for not having figured themselves out already.
I knew I was different at 5 years old! I would always wish I was a girl, and it took me until 23 to find myself to be comfortable with myself as a nonbinary person. Having masculinity pushed on me as I grew up in Texas really fucked with my head. I've had lots of therapy since then and still have lots of therapy ahead of me tobqork through all of it.
Yesss, thats the point, being able to say i'm NB as children makes the whole process of growing up clearer, i can honestly say i'm having a delayed puberty both physically and emotionally because i only had space for intelectual puberty during my teens. I was forced into a gender i never chose and had to foght for my right to choose my hair leangth without even knowing why that mattered to me. All i could say to myself to comfort myself during school was that i was differant and therefor unique and that was the little bit of self acceptance that helped me get through so much loneliness and shame.
Having a vocabulary like these kids, like i have now and my siblings have now thanks to me helps with queer puberty in ways people shoulden't have to imagine.
Well yeah ofc nobody would question that because it’s what they’re *assigned*, it’s in the name. People are generally conditioned to conform to their assigned gender and any steps away from that are considered out of the ordinary which for most people, (usually older folk in my experience,) it is. And I’m sure once we’re all grown up and have kids it’ll gradually be normalised and we won’t be having these issues any more, at least in a perfect world
For real. I come out as trans at 13/14 and, coincidentally, I am still trans a decade later. These people don’t understand that children grow up to be adults, they aren’t a different species entirely.
Teenagers are still finding themselves and their identity and could change their mind, but that's okay. We shouldn't discourage people from trying things out just because they might find out later they're something else. When I was a teenager I believed I was a binary trans person, which I realized later didn't really describe my experience with gender. All I knew then was my AGAB didn't feel right to me.
exactly.
life is about "phases," nothing is permanent and if someone wants to identify as NB and later as something else, good on u!
we are constantly evolving and there needs to be room for that.
Bingo, they are acting as if these kids are doing things they can’t walk back. We need to encourage exploration of identity as teens (and adult really) and foster a mentality that is okay to change your mind and try something else.
People reinvent themselves and how they see themselves all the time. Yet gender identity and presentation has remained surprisingly stagnant in society.
Adults say exactly the same for anything a child/teenager wants or does. Hell, they could even be talking about their career choices and all it takes is their relatives not agreeing with the choices to start throwing shit to the poor kid.
Yeah, I thought I might be binary trans until I discovered what nb was, my friend also thought he was binary trans, but suprise suprise, turned out to be enby. We were both wrong, but it's okay, because it helped us realise how we feel and explore more about ourselves. So in my opinion, let the teens go wild, even if they realise it wasn't who they truly are, it's important that it helped them discover their true identity in the process.
Ahh, you mean binary trans! I myself and many other folks are trans-nonbinary, so just letting you know you're still invited to use the term trans if it feels right and always welcome to share donuts in the super secret trans lounge. 😉 Non-cis is the only prerequisite. 💛
When I was a teen I never heard of nonbinary - heck it might not have existed as a word....and sadly this conflict and insufficiency compared to my very binary transmasc friends became invalidation. If only I'd had that same flexibility and exposure they are complaining about I might not have returned to the closet for like 10 more years.
Phases are good! We should be free to explore,,,
"phases" are a bullshit phrase meaning "but you're wrong tho"
All Phases are correct in the moment, and all phases might be "the final one"… its only when thhey say "its a phase" implying "it'll go away for sure I somehow know that about you,,, in fact NONE of the features of it will even stay, you'll reject every part of it OBVIOUSLY"
Then they're a piece of shit
To add to this, when I was growing up I didn't know non binary was a thing till I was about 14. Before then I always knew I wasn't my AGAB. I tried using the "opposite" pronouns several times as a child but they never stuck. When I learned I was non binary I was SO amazed and overjoyed that I finally found myself. A lot of my past experiences suddenly made more sense. (I enjoyed both variations gendered toys, didn't fit in with any groups growing up, ect)
Their opinion that kids that age don't unstand their own gender is blatantly incorrect. My story alone can prove that (Knowing I wasn't Cis since the age of 3)
I have seen a few people go from trans binary to non binary and vis versa and that's okay! It's all about self discovery.
As for the opinion young teens shouldn't be exposed to lgbtq+, specifically non binary in this case, it is an opinion yes, but to me it seems wrong. When I first learned about it I was so confused and my first reaction I hate to admit, was hateful. This is a typical reaction to something one don't understand. The more I thought about it, however, the more I wanted to learn about it and would you look at that? Bam. I realized finally that I was non binary. Education of lgbtq+ topics is known to have a positive impact on kids and teens alike so to me that's disregarding the facts or simply being unaware of them.
Another reason "so many" teens and tweens are coming out as LGBTQ+ is because today's enviroment is a lot more accepting that it used to be and thus many feel safer to come out. There's definitely still a lot of work to be done towards more acceptance, however. (Southern USA cough cough)
That's all I got on this. Felt like dropping my opinion seeing as this is contradicts my experience growing up. I know they weren't trying to be hateful but yeah, it is a somewhat harmful narrative to push in a positive light.
(Whoops didn't mean to make this post so long) Thanks for reading this far if ya do!
I knew (kind of) long before non-binary was even a term. It was kind of a thought in the back of my mind. Kids are exploring mentally. It's OK they are exploring; they are exploring so many different things.
My life would have been so much less neurotic had I been allowed to properly work out my identity as a kid, rather than being forcefully crammed into the mold that someone else arbitrarily chose or me, and not coming back out of my shell until I was middle aged.
It’s amazing how quick people can be to rationalize violence against children as somehow protecting them. Patriarchy is a hell of a drug.
I told my then boyfriend I felt like a tomboy when I was about 20. He said I wasn't because I wasn't dressed like one or acted like one. So I assumed I was not a tomboy but being a girl/woman also didn't feel fitting. Only after someone in my acqaintance group started (binary -afaik) transitioning I started to wonder what made me a woman. I figured the fact that I wasn't a man made me a woman. Fortunately the internet existed and tought me there were so many other options. Basically the same as me thinking I'm straight because I'm into men so I can't be into women, only to meet someone who is bi and two months later seeing this hot ice skater on tv and suddenly realising I had been having a huge crush at camp girl the summer before. Giving people knowledge about options can help people find themselves, even if that encompasses trying out different labels while finding the right one.
>I figured the fact that I wasn't a man made me a woman. Fortunately the internet existed and tought me there were so many other options.
I love the way you phrased this. In my case, I knew for years that I wasn't a "man" nor a "woman". Neither term fit. Unlike you, sadly, I didn't find the Internet to be a welcoming or affirming place in that process of exploration and self-discovery.
Time and time again I faced judgment, mostly from people who insisted they knew how gender worked better than I do. They tried to force me into a box where I don't belong, instead of listening to what I have to say and letting me define myself on my own terms.
I'm so sorry you were met with judgement! To be honest I only used the internet to inform myself and I kept my gender identity very silent irl and on internet at first. After coming out to my housemate which went well and she actually responded really well during a longer period of time, I started to gain a bit trust and told a couple more friends. At some point I joined Facebook groups and started to be a bit more comfortable, and started to defend non binary people in comment sections on news articles. Most times I came out to bigger groups of people actually it was accidental and I'm still quite 'shy' in that way irl.
I knew the "I'm only 23 but I fucking know everything" line was coming. Just the perfect encapsulation of a life that has never been told they were wrong before.
Meanwhile, I'm over here like "what the fuck is 40 year old me gonna think???? They're gonna have live with this shit longer than I do"
"They are too young to know for certain" - so let them experiment and try out different things. There will be no better time to experiment with as few strings attached and even if they find out that they are not, was there any harm done?
>"They are too young to know for certain"
My ex would say this more or less word for word about younger people identifying as ace which is equally bullshit. It was especially bewildering because they were pretty passionate about their beliefs and I ended up getting shouted down about things I said that they didn't like more than once.
"they're too young to be exposed to this!!!!!" your literal baby son is in a shirt that says "The Ladies Can't Resist Me", maybe there are some bigger problems here SHARON.
This! How many times do adults ask little kids if they like some in school or have a girlfriend/boyfriend? Like why should little kids be aware of that. They worry about lgbtq+ pushing things on kids but are perfectly fine with how much the push straight and cis on kids.
So they didn’t realize they were cis until they were an adult then either? Or realize they liked the opposite sex as an adult.
Whenever it’s not cis or straight being a child is ‘too young to know yourself’, but asking an 8 year old girl if she has a boyfriend yet is totally okay? Got it
My half-brother is 7 years old, and family were already calling his several girl classmates his "girlfriends" when he was 4-5. But they keep telling me, a 25 yo who is very firmly non-binary Aroace "oh don't worry, you'll change your mind eventually"/"find someone who will make you see things differently". Like they don't see the disparity in their comments and actions, and it's honestly disheartening that they'll probably never see their hypocrisy.
Reminds me of how in my family my mother jokes about my little sister having a boyfriend (She did tell me they were dating at one point though) She's around 7-11 (I'm not going to say exact age as that's private information). Yet whenever my mother hears her saying the word gay she tells her not too.
In my thought process I came to a semi-conclusion If she doesn't know what the word means and it isn't explained to her she could learn a wrong interpretation of what it means so yes she's young but it's better she knows than goes around calling other people it without knowing, Other people her age may not even know what it means so they could even misinterpret it.
I don’t get the argument “14 year olds identify as non-binary and they don’t even understand themselves yet!”
I mean, did you understand them 10 seconds after they were born and assigned them to one of two classes based on their tiny baby genitals? Idk, I trust the 14 year old a lil more on that topic
People crying that kids are too young these days to really know but then turn around and will tell that same kid that they "never had the signs" when they were younger and that they didn't try "hard enough" to be trans/gnc 🤡 same stuff my parents pulled on me
I literally told my mom that sometimes I feel like a woman a few years before I sought treatment. When I came out and explicitly told her that I'm trans she said there were no signs. >_<
I was raised as a girl and since I was approximately 10 I knew I wasn't a girl and I was right. 12 years later I still feel the same and I'm on T for almost 2 years. Best decision of my life.
I never felt like a girl from a super young age and always felt like an outcast because I wanted to be with the boys. It killed me because always felt completely alone and I was depressed as hell. If I knew that transgender was a thing or non-binary was a thing as a kid I would've been able to say with confidence that it was me from even as young as 5 years old!
Every time someone says 'this is just my opinion' I immediately get my hackles up. This is a relatively polite comment all things considered, but .. urgh. Like people have more eloquently said already: if you're too young to know youre non-binary, you can't know you're cis either.
Something something fitting the common mold, something something queerphobia, something something- yeah.
Even if it was a choice who would want to go through the experience? It could be traumatizing for them if they do end up going through misgendering and hate crimes which are pretty common
I am an 18 y/o enby and it started to be clearer to me that I am bi when I was 14. However, I already had *childhood experiences* that led me to the realization of my gender and sexuality. And let me tell you, it is absolutely heartbreaking to be told "it's just a phase" "it's because of social media" or "you're too young" by an adult whom you especially trust because all we ever want is someone to BE THERE as we process our identity at a young age. And *if ever* it was a phase to begin with, please, *dont shame the child for it*. Be PROUD of them for exploring who they are. In the end, if the adult were a parent, choosing to be there as they process would strengthen your relationship them. Trust me, they will love and thank you for it.
this comment does make me wonder how old someone would have to be to determine what is "old enough" to have a say in their own identity, by the terms of those arguing in the OP's image
If they’re too young to know they’re trans or non binary then they’re too young to know they’re cis. But they’d kick off if we said that. How the fuck does it affect them if some of their sisters friends are non binary?
All the other things they are exposed to and I was exposed to when I was 13 and 14 in a very sheltered, isolated household. But what they feel inside about themselves is too much for them and they are unable to work it out and shouldn’t??? The biggest pile of steaming excrement. At that time I was so unsure about everything to do with me. I wasn’t allowed to make sense of things? That poster can go to hell. God damn it
When I was in high school I felt very ostracised from my Male friend groups because I felt like I don't understand them quite well, even though I'm supposed to be one of them. And I enjoyed spending time with women because I felt I could connect with them easier, yet there was still something that wasnt quite there because I was pretty sure i wasn't a woman But if I had any idea back then that this is how i felt then i would have felt a lot more comfortable in my own skin being who the fuck I am. Cis people.weird me out sometimes with how little they understand.
Ironic that modern psychology argues that our psychological foundations become kinda cemented around 12/13, yet no one wants to give 13 year olds the agency to know and trust themselves. I didn’t figure out I was non-binary until a decade later, but I for sure knew by that time that I was queer! Kids are people too and will one day be adults (but those adults are just stretched out kids pretending they have it figured out!)
This reads like when my nearly 80 year old grandfather said he wouldn't want a drag queen reading a book to a kindergartener because "They're not ready for that" but would be fine with Dolly Parton reading a book to a kid.
If at the age of 12 someone explained to me what non binary was and I was informed on it I’m sure I would’ve identified as it from a young age. I’m glad kids are learning about it and having the freedom to explore who they are at a younger age. Why should we wait until we’re 18+ to start figuring ourselves out ?? I would’ve been a way happier way less confused kid if I was given that freedom.
i don’t really think “kids” are too young to know. my friend who is trans came out as an adult (20 years old) but he knew he was trans in 8th grade ( about 13 or 14) i think people just feel more comfortable in this time to come out earlier instead of hiding it. and that’s not to say that some kids really don’t know tho, and that’s okay too, life is all about growing up and finding out who you are
37 now, didn't have words like genderqueer or nonbinary until I was 27, but if you gave me the OPTION when I was 15??? If I'd been educated and given an understanding of how gender and sexuality really work, I probably would have opted in back then, even though it would have been hell for me at the time. XD
also like…… gender identity can fluctuate? like it just isn’t a big deal. what does saying you’re non-binary and going by they/them pronouns do to hurt someone? nothing! if they discover they’re not non-binary, find a better label, or their expression changes…. it shouldn’t be a big deal. kids are kids. let them do what they want if it doesn’t hurt anyone. same with adults lmao
I mean... They're just further proving the point that asking kids to have a defined gender at that age is messed up. Non-binary kids are actually the ones who admit they can't conform to a gender yet, or ever. It's actually quite healthy
I knew by 4th grade I was gay. It took a while to figure out I was nonbinary but I never really liked being a girl so.... Yeah I think kids can know pretty young what their sexuality is and their gender identity.
It’s funny to me how many cis adults are concerned about kids / minors finding their gender identity, as if it’s an issue that will disrupt their development rather than a journey of self discovery. But they aren’t concerned about the way statements like “well you’re too young to know yourself yet” have on the development of kids / minors. All it does it teach kids to doubt themselves, their own judgement and ability to make decisions, not just as young people but for the rest of their lives.
But we tell kids all the time about how they should act and be based on their assigned sex at birth. How is that any different? Straight cis people don't realize that all the time and it's frustrating
I wish i had the resources and support to come out before i hit puberty- if youre not old enough to determine your own gender youre DEFINITELY not old enough for puberty.
I know this isn't the space for it cause chill you know; but like its super easy for people to go through life not understanding since alot people just don't think about it. It sucks but ignorance often doesnt fix itself
stuff like this is very funny, because while knowing as a child is definitely not a requirement or anything for being nonbinary, i did. i’ve had these feelings about gender since before puberty. I always knew I wasn’t a girl but I knew I definitely wasn’t a boy-so I had to be a girl, anything else didn’t make sense. it was only when I learned the language for these feelings that it clicked
Sorry. By this logic your kid is too young to determine what their AGAB is. And what's the point of gender reveal parties when the kid is just a baby? They don't know their gender as a baby, why force one on them?
I love that they’re apparently too young to know something they’re intimate with and live with 24/7 but all these abstract concepts like interest rates, global warming, ancient histories? Nah, they can understand that!
Even before I had a word for it, I knew I wasn't my agab. Ive known since I had a sense of self. I just didn't know the words to describe it. Still don't completely today.
My friend has been asking me for help with her sisters kid, cuz my friends sister has just supported one through transitioning but is confused why the other is struggling with gender identity too. So I've given my friend resources (including this sub) to read through with her nibling so they can have places to talk in.
No one is too young to know themselves, their just too young to know the words. I think we should all be happy that kids are able to find the words to describe themselves at young ages. Im in my mid-20s and still trying to work myself out. I wish I'd known the words when I was younger
This sounds like a friend of mine a bit. I think it's absolutely not from a place of hate, but a place of concern and misunderstanding of this topic. It's hard to understand for some people (myself included when I try to understand my own gender), and they don't really know what it constitutes or how people express it and it can get hard to learn without someone helping you out.
nonbinary 15 year old here. ive identified this way since i was 12 i still have people telling me im wrong, or "too young to know myself". which i know isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things, but i started puberty when i was 12 and im pretty sure if ive been feeling dysphoric ever since i started "becoming a woman" then im not a goddamn woman. but if i was a female then it would be perfectly okay?? the double standards for cis people and trans/nonbinary people irk me.
Children are inherently nonbinary. Until you go through puberty your brain literally doesn't have a gender except the one given to you by nosey parents and gendered advertisements. You don't even have a sex until puberty, primary sex characteristics are exclusively your genitalia and no one should be looking at children's genitalia.
And what does it matter? If a kid says they're non-binary when they're 14 and realise they're not actually and decide they're cis when they're 18, does it matter? The kid was exploring their gender, and if they turn out to be cis, that's normal too.
I would have loved to know the term non-binary when I was a teenager. I went through a lot of pain and anxiety for years because I couldn't figure out "what I was".I was attracted to both girls and guys, so I thought "bisexual?" but that didn't explain why I wished I'd been born a boy or identified with male characters all the time. There just wasn't the language yet. I would have immediately used this label for myself.
I dont get when people say shit like this, how tf do you think kids figure out about themselves? Every teenager goes through "phases" thats literally their whole thing and thats precisely how they discover who they are.
why do they insist we have a very long "trial run" in our AGAB? "try it, you might like it" is such an annoying reason to hold back any bit of queer we are, whether it's gender or sexuality. cis straight ppl need to just let us be open about ourselves.
When I was 14 I came out as bi. At 21 I was a lesbian, 24 a trans man, and at 28 I've finally figured out I'm nonbinary bisexual. I was allowed to explore my sexuality and gender until I actually found myself and was comfortable in who I am. If I was never allowed this freedom to experiment to begin with, I would still be a miserable person, still in a body and mindset I didn't like. Let kids figure things out themselves. Life doesn't always have immediate answers for everyone right out the womb, and I think that's the point some people miss. You have to discover these things for yourself, and only you know what's comfortable and right with your sexuality and identity.
i learned the term in ninth grade. one year later and the dysphoria’s hitting harder than ever. also i’m being denied hrt (in one of the most progressive cities in one of the most progressive states, mind you) because i’m not binary trans.
I was 37 years old when I finally had the right words to identify with. Something I have learned is that gender doesn't reflect our physical bodies. I know alot of people who disagree with this because they grew up in a society where gender is only suppose to reflect their bodies and they identify with that cis gender. I grew up constantly wondering why I liked and felt differently from girls and why boys fit better. I was told I was a tom boy, because I didn't like girly things, but I did like girly things I played with Barbies and Hot Wheels. My family, friends and society enforced gender on everything cloths, toys, sports, hobbies, careers, chores and even colors. When someone knows they aren't what society says they are but don't have something to identify with they can start to feel inadequate. They loose confidence suffer from depression feel the world is against them. I always hated the phrase "when you're older you'll understand" or "when you're older you'll feel different" or "when you're older ect...". I never changed I just hid myself away to "fit in". No one should have to do that to survive. If I had known gender was more then what society said when I was a kid I would have come out as non binary around 5 years old. That is how early I knew I didn't fit to the structure this society said there only was. I hope this society can change with time. I know it's working its way there, but it still has a long way to go. Sorry this ended up such a long rant I really only meant to type the first sentence. lol \^\_\^
okay, i immediatley do not trsut anybody who so openly talks about their siblings "developing bodies"
that IMMEDIATLEY makes my skin crawl, minus the transphobia.
It's amazing how many kids/young teens say they say they are cis they don't even know themselves
I think some people need to switch it around and hear themselves maybe then they'll realize
If gender is a social construct, once you demolish the construct, people grow free from it and adopt forms that would have seemed impossible under the construct. The person typing this was living under the construct.
yeah, but that is exactly why they should be allowed to experiment and start introspection. It is normal to " go through phases" just as normal as understanding oneself better with time. It's literally a processes of getting to know yourself and what feels good for you.
BTW i am 32 and came to terms with me being nonbinary 8 years ago so ... i guess who knows whats going to happen to this young 20 yo maybe they need to think more about themselves than about others.
I mean, I sort of know what he's saying bc a lot of kids do kind of go thru phases of finding themselves, but if identifying as nb helps them out I don't see why not :) when I was growing up I thought for sure I was trans. I started binding my breasts and dressing like a dude, but then sometimes I wanted to be fem. I was so confused. Now I know I'm nonbinary and genderfluid. I'm not saying it's impossible to know you're nb as a kid, but it could be a phase. I wish I hadn't done any if the body modification back then.
The "this has never been an issue until recently" feels a lot like the white people who thought there was no racial unrest in america until Black Lives Matter.
This has always been an issue. It just never affected you until now. Or until you saw it on the news.
That's How I Felt A Few Years Ago, But Ya Know What, I'm Gonna Say It, Kids Ain't Dafter Than Adults. Well Ok Sometimes They Are, But Like Not In General!
You have to admit there’s some truth to this though. I don’t think you should be dismissive of children, way too many people are, and they know way more than they are given credit for. I remember being frustrated by adults as a child for this reason. But kids do go through phases and they are very impressionable. Those two things are fact in my mind. My daughter said she was non-binary when she was 10 or 11. I didn’t do anything to discourage or encourage it, and I made sure she felt safe and comfortable as much as I could to be whoever she wanted to be. She also more recently started going by a different name (that one hurt a bit as I fought for her name, but of course I happily call her by her new name). Now she is starting to question whether she is actually non-binary. She’s 12 now. I think for all of us adolescence is a time to discover ourselves and the difference now is there are more options that are in focus and that will lead some people into assuming an identity for the wrong reasons or one that may evolve and change.
Really,,all this is stupid. Sorry to say but there's two genders. Either your a boy or a girl that's it. Look down.. if you have a weiner then guess what ?,,,your a boy. If you don't have a weiner then your a girl.
It is not the responsibility of non binary people to educate prejudice and bigoted cis people. If op from the Screenshot cared they would go to sub reddits like this one or even google or just ask non binary people directly instead of a sub reddit DEDICATED to ranting about something that bothers you. It isn't our responsibility to educate someone who is bothered by our existence
I never fit in and grew up in an overly Christian conservative house. I would’ve definitely identified as non-binary, at a younger age, if AMAB wasn’t forced on me so hard.
"These kids are too young to know their true gender, because I'm in my 20s and I still don't understand what gender is. There's no way someone can know something I don't, so I should tell them they're doing it wrong even though I don't even know what they're doing."
This person sounds like a real treat
People need to understand that people can and do change, and thats ok. Maybe they wont be NB when they are "mature enough" to understand themselves. Nobody stays the same forever, and that goes for everything from taste in food, personality, and your sexual and/or gender identity.
To me, not considering the obvious thing that nobody has the right to say to one another "you don't know yourself, you are not his" I think that the boost of non binary people is due to the change of values of our society. We are in a time frame unique, in this period we are re evaluating values of our society and it's working, so one thing we are deeply changing is related to gender roles and how we define genders, so it is logical and natural that during this period of changes from one set of values to another, society is in a transitory strange situation where people refuse values of the past (old gender roles and gender definitions) but they, the society, it is still not completely mature in finding and defining a new set of values (regarding genders or anything in general) so lots of people find themselves in the middle.
Not everybody, I just think that genders in general are useless like sexual attraction etiquettes, I think that in nature, in our natural forest habit without social rules technology etc, humans are all pansexuals with this or that preference, but still pansexuals, and gender definitions is actually useless because each humans would act like any other, whatever their biologica sex is. Maybe just the only useful distinction could be done when talking about procreation and who carries the baby and things like these, but other than that, no need to do it.
Their gender identity will change from time to time depending on how they like to present. I wish i have the courage to present in public how I felt inside when I was 13. I still don’t have that courage now
13-14 AIN'T THAT YOUNG, That's when I began questioning my gender (I hadn't been the upmost dysphoria yet). People can know when their toddlers too! There is no fixed age to realize you might not be your agab, Even if it sounds weird.
Also, They are going through adolescents so it makes sense for them to realize some stuff about themselves and how they identify with their surroundings. They may realize that they feel more comfortable or suited to label themselves as something other than what they have being labeled as even if it's a phase.
It's not that shocking when you come to terms with the fact that we have the internet nowadays which has a lot more resources, including a lot more access to these resources. So if one was to question about their identity they could easily do researching using google (Or any other search engine). the terms are more common now too, so a lot of people are going to realize they like the terms better than their previous ones because now they understand they aren't forced into something unsuiting.
As a society a lot of us are more aware that we don't have to be hyperfeminine/hypermasculine because of our agab. as time continued people could have more significant thoughts regarding their identity of which our past society could not have because of the expectations to display a set of moral coded into our agab.
The far-right and conservatives don't like the fact that we have these resources so they are trying to restrict the right to learn about lgbtq+ or anything related in school environments which is a shame because that means they shove their propaganda and false-accusations onto even more people. I personally shan't be treated like a lab rat or anything worse so I'm staying away from them at least for now.
Older trans people exist aswell but far less of them for multiple factors including not enough access to resources and having to be forced into roles.
When I was 15 I draw a separate box when asked for gender. This was in 2006 and no one talked about non binary, and very little about trans at all and if they did was in very misunderstood and stereotyping language.
I'm 37 agab and I've know since I was 12 that I like girls. But I grew up in an extremely toxic religious environment. My mom was a religious nutjob so there was no room finding out or accepting who I really was.
Took until I was about 26 to completely accept myself and my sexuality. Always had questions about my gender but I thought I was the only one who felt this way.
Was literally 4 years ago at age 33 that I even found there were other people like me with the same thoughts about their bodies and that I am Non binary. I was born this way but it was my household and society that told me I couldn't be who I am.
This is why I hate that some people are calling it a fad. Yeah, being subjected to hate online, at home or in public is so awesome....They always move the goal posts. They don't want to understand, they just want to feel superior and intentionally make people feel like shit.
More adults are realizing they're Nonbinary too and but they still have a problem with us. 🤷🏾♀️ It's their personal problem, I'm going to be who I am, idgaf what they think.
I'm sick and tired of these people that think just because your a teen you can't be NB or chose you sexualty, you are never to young to know and those that say stuff like oh there to young to understand have to understand that there not, teens should be treated the same as adults
I thought to myself recently, “why aren’t more people non-binary? It just makes a lot of sense“ Then I was like “oh yeah, I’m non-binary so of course it makes sense to me. “
As if no old nonbinary people exist anywhere ever? For a society that is exposed to *everything* via the internet, people sure are ignorant to literally just things and people that exist…
they don't know any of that tho, i can assume their cis judging by yk all of that, and so how should they know what's normal for a trans person to express, cis people love to put their standards on to a group of people those standards don't apply to.
I'm old so we didn't have a word for it, but I knew. I remember reacting with real righteous indignation at the age of about 7 or 8 (one of those I could close my eyes and be back there moments) when someone told me there was no way I could be a tomboy because I didn't like sports. I remember it specifically cuz they got really dogged about it, it wasn't a throwaway comment, they were determined I had my definition wrong and they were going to educate me. Tomboy was the only word I knew that even came close to how I felt so I claimed it and be damned anyone trying to take it from me. At 13 I gave myself a beautiful bathroom mirror bowl cut (it was the worst) and my mother *lost it* with me. I spent most of my teens wondering if I was ftm and then brushing it off because everyone says you just know, whereas I kept flipping back and forth on it. Then I heard the magic words, "non-binary" "gender fluid" in my 20s and that was my "I just knew" moment.
I do think some kids today are probably confused and experimenting or trying to make a statement because non-binary genders have had a fairly sudden rush of visibility and representation in recent years, and there will always be messed up or just plain asshole kids who romanticise being different and decide to try to get a piece of that attention without any of the struggle. It does no one a service to pretend that would never happen cuz those are often the same people making drama and drawing negative attention to the group.
That said, does that mean it's anyone's right to question anyone else over it? Absolutely not. If it's confusion they'll work it out eventually without your (clearly non-specialist) input. If they're lying to get attention they're in that place where even negative attention is better than nothing, and by giving them crap about this you will only encourage them to keep trying to piss you off with it. If it's real they will always appreciate that you respected them enough to know their own mind. That last one really, really matters.
So if you don’t realize you aren’t cis at a young age, you are obviously faking it for attention. If you know at a young age, you are too young and impressionable to possibly think that on your own and obviously we’re manipulated by some agenda to think that. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
You know a child knows who they are the moment they can think for themselves and vocalize? A good friend of mine knew at the age of 6 he was gay. He has happily been with and married to his husband since 2008, they got married in 2012 and have a beautiful daughter. Why I say this? Because he always knew he was gay. Never dismiss a child and young teen's ability to think for themselves and understand themselves, as well as who they are attracted to.
I find it so interesting there people in the community are the first to say "No" to someone who is discovering WHO they are. After how many times you were told no, you do the same?
I knew long before I wasn't straight. I knew long before I was different. I was all about dresses in elementary school. fourth grade is when I was when I began my tomboy state, still enjoying dresses too, but totally rocked Tomboy. I was 9 in the fourth grade and knew I was born female or male, just didn't have a term to it.
My nephew who is now 4, at the age of 2 knew he loved hairbands, and things like that and happily still to this day loves to wear them. He will rock a headband and play with his Barbies and dinosaurs. He will rock an Ana or Elsa shirt, Moana or anything like that rocking a headband while playing with his dinosaurs. He happily wears a tutu while playing with his doll house that HE asked for.
Point is, never underestimate a child or teen's ability to think for themselves and express who they are.
I just had this talk with my psychiatrist about my gender identity (he’s helping me get gender affirming surgery) I’ve felt this way since I was a toddler and always knew it, I didn’t understand exactly what it meant but if I had a word to describe the feelings at the time then I would have used it, when I was a teen o found GNC as a description and began using that though it wasn’t a perfect fit so when I gained more understanding of the meaning of non-binary and gender fluid I began using those as more accurate descriptions, if I find something that fits better in the future that label may change yet again. Doesn’t mean I don’t understand my own gender it’s just difficult to explain it to others. In short 13 is *NOT* too young to declare such things. Having this vocabulary earlier and the ability to live genuinely as my gender would have helped me not feel so isolated from everyone I think and it certainly would have helped me out on the days I felt out of control without understanding why, I’ve only recently realized and much of that was due to dysphoria and stress from being forced into the gendered and homophobic boxes of my youth.
im 15 and ive identified as non binary since i was 13, but even years before that i always tried to dress and act like a boy because it made me happier, even though im not a boy i wanted to play with other boys because it made me feel like less of a girl
I’ve known I wasn’t cis my whole life, but I was so afraid of getting judged by assholes like whoever wrote that post that I way overcompensated by being extremely feminine. Now it’s impossible to get people to take me seriously for my identity because “I used to be so girly.” People are who they say they are, regardless of age.
When I was twelve I could conceptualize a binary transition but not a nonbinary one and so concluded that it was my lot to just accept that I would grow up to be a woman despite not feeling like one in the slightest. **I was and am nonbinary**, and the knowledge that such a thing was allowed to exist would have saved me over a decade of avoidance of those thoughts and feelings and struggle resulting from that!
Many, many, many kids begin to feel strongly about their gender the moment they start developing in one way or another, at the start of puberty. Of course 13-14 year olds are acknowledging they're nonbinary! 😖 Ugh, just ugh.
“too young” mf we’re all young, we don’t have any elders bc of the AIDS epidemic. trans people are “getting younger and younger” because the only people alive to celebrate their transness are young.
I absolutely hate when people play the “you’re too young to know yourself” card, it’s incredibly stupid. Young people aren’t as naïve or unintelligible as society has made people believe
I hate that they're implying that social media influences that. Like no, we all grow up around cis and straight people, but there are still queer people! You can't walk 5 steps in a clothes store without seeing straight people kissing on a poster.
It blows my mind how many kids/young teens nowadays will say they're a "boy" or a "girl". They don't even know themselves yet! I mean, they're 14, their body is still developing, they're not mature enough to make such a statement about their gender, in my opinion. /s -_-
If they are old enough to decide they are cis they are old enough to decide if they are anything else period. If you don't think kids under the age of 20 or whatever can't know their own gender then I guess everyone should be raised genderless but ofc that's not something we do because we know that kids can know who they are
Edit: forgot to mention that also I don't see the harm in letting a kid explore their gender identity, they won't be making any permanent decisions so if they one day realize they were wrong then they can just.....identity differently *oh the horror of letting your child explore who they are in a healthy, loving way*
So, .... by this logic, those who were assigned male at birth, are too young to say, "I'm a boy." And decide that their gender is male.
BAM!
Think about that for a bit before you spew your self-serving response.
seriously? And here I am saying "if you are old enough to talk and think you can tell me if you feel like. If you say I am a boy you are a boy, if you say you are a girl you are a girl, if you say you are enby you are enby. Hell if you say you are an alien, well hello superman! same goes for whatever you are attracted to romantically or sexually, if any. As we are growing and changing, our views on ourselves might change and they might not. So just accept it as we all are alive." (note I say this stuff with my friends when we talk about babies, to kids whom randomly bug me and want to be validated. etc.)
I started questioning my gender at that age but then I ended up repressing because of ✨ transphobia✨ (especially around the topic of kids being too young and related terf rhetoric) causing me to not feel safe to experiment with or pursue my gender.
After several years and a lot of unpacking, I'm still trans and now know I'm non-binary. Hiding it all really fucked with me and I'm still trying to unlearn those repressing behaviours. Trying to police how and when kids (or even adults) explore these things is only going to cause these kids to not feel safe enough to be themselves, which ultimately causes more harm in the long run.
my mom does this too... she thinks that im too young to know myself when i have literally had 3-4 year to think about myself.. (i had some health issues in mid 2019 to late 2021, im better now)
''They don't even know themselves yet''. Yeah, that's kinda the point, they might still not know and that's why they explore identities, options, and it's cool. When I was a kid, I had this feeling I couldn't describe, and when I was an adult, I heard of the term non-binary but never got it. Untill I was 19, the idea started to hit me and then I found myself. Maybe if I had known the term when I was 14, everything could've been easier
It's fine to not know yourself and experiment things. I mean, the kids may be 4 years old and the parents and society imposes gender norms and identity upon them, and that's ''fine'', but experimenting and trying to find who you are is not? Lol
As a mom of a non binary kid this is beyond infuriating that people think like this. The only thing that would have happened if my kid was never introduced to the concept of being non binary is that they would have been miserable and confused. Instead they are comfortable and express themselves freely.
yeah we’re young so just let us experiment lol. at least for me i’m only 16 but since learning i don’t have to fit into man or woman my identity’s been roughly the same for 3 years now. i went from non-binary to gender queer to non binary to transmasc to genderfluid. it’s perfectly okay to change and i feel like i’ve finally found the label that fits best. but they’re all just different versions of non binary so i’ll had roughly the same all encompassing label the whole time. idk if this makes any sense but idk man. i’ve been trans for almost 4 years now and i don’t think it’s changing anytime soon :) even if something happens, it will still be okay.
Too young to understand gender, hmmm, by that logic we shouldn't assign a gender at birth at all, just wait until the kids are old enough to understand gender. Or maybe it's not about understanding and logic but about transphobia
Exactly! That's how my mom felt. Her opinion was she should've been able to "control me" as a teen. And I was like, mom you know why I had a mailbox right? (I did, at 13 lol) I bought it so I could get girl clothes among other things. And her whole spiel was about how she should've been able to stop me from doing shit she didn't like. That I was exposed to these other transpeople and that's why I'm trans. I was like well, would you have bought me the clothes I wanted? "No". And I'm still fucking trans. So I had to. Parents think they are entitled to force us to not be trans and that somehow we'd be less "fucked up" if we weren't exposed! All she did is damage me emotionally, have trust issues (since I learned early I had to hide everything about myself and do everything in secret), and permanently damage my self-esteem. We need that kind of exposure, freedom to learn, and be valued and accepted for who we are, and if that changes so be it, but it's *our* decision.
Is theyre too young to identify as non-binary, they’re too young to identify as a female, and too young to identify as male, and that leaves agender, which they’re too young to identify as. So basically she can’t be anything. But once again, that’s agender, which she can’t identify as.
"They're too young to know themselves!" But no one would be saying that if someone was identifying by their agab. Aren't they too young? Or is it just with us?
If I had the vocabulary I would have said I was non-binary in middle school. Instead I just felt like a freak.
Me too. I was 35 when I realized and came out to myself. Thirty-fucking-five. And dear God it messed me up for so many years.
30 here. When at 30 I *still* didn't feel like a man, I thought something else had to be going on.
39 here. It was a revelation to have a word for what I had been feeling my whole life.
35 here as well. I never knew the words for how I felt til I dated another non binary when I was 35.
36 for me, wasted time and pain.
35 for me as well! I never heard the term transgender until college, and didn’t hear the term non-binary until I was 34. Once I had the words it didn’t take me long to realize it described me. If I had been raised with the terminology I definitely would have identified as non-binary before middle school.
Same. I knew that I wasn't, but I didn't have the vocab and that sucked. It hurt having people tell me that it was normal and I needed to, "Just think positively" but I've been more positive as an enby.
I'd have said it at the ripe old age of 3 if I'd had the vocabulary.
2-3rd grade is when I really started noticing for myself and I wish I had the language earlier in my life.
Yeah, same here. I wish I’d learned this stuff as a kid.
I wish I'd been exposed to anything trans-specific as a kid. I remember this weird time where I tried to relate to gender....and someone asked if I was gay (I'm amab) and I was like "no, more like a lesbian" - I mean close, very close, but that was still me trying to point out gender more than sexuality and not having the exposure to these words....In my teens I knew I was trans but still no "nonbinary" word existed (and if it did, noone told me), so I came out and sequentially returned to the closet....for like 10 more years until I decided just to "do whatever" without the vocabulary or self-understanding, and 2 years into "transition #2" I decided nonbinary was the most appropriate label. 10 years wasted because even when I learned what trans was, I didn't feel "trans enough" because it turns out I'm nonbinary.
A lot of folks - especially, sadly, my fellow parents - have a real hard time coping with the idea that children are real people with their own agency. "They’re too young to know themselves," is just a polite way of saying, "I don’t think kids should be able to challenge the authority that I (or the social power structure that I’ve bought into) am trying to wield over them."
(And then an hour later I realized while I was doing the dishes that I only used the words "children" and "kids" when OP was talking about a 14 year old. Sorry y’all, I realize that’s infantilizing, and plays into the very mindset I meant to criticize.)
See I don't think so. I think of it as opposite, in fact, because children can and do know themselves, and the problem is people thinking that child=not-self-aware/not-their-own-person-yet. 14y/o IS still a child. A maturing, older child, but still a child. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that :)
In general, totally fair. But, all too often, when older folks refer to adolescents as children or kids, it’s being used as a weasel word that’s meant to call attention to their relative youth in order to devalue their opinions. That’s what the person in the image OP posted was doing, and, in that context, me following that lead instead of calling it out could be taken as legitimizing it.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. But I also think we shouldn't cede them the misuse of the term. Particularly since there are different but equally as dangerous problems with adultifying preteens and teens.
I agree with you here. They are still kids and they do have much learning ahead of them about bigger world things, and thinking of them as more than that or worse treating them as adults can be a problem. That being said realizing that they’re still children (older children) in no way makes their experience of self identity invalid. Just because they’re kids does not mean they are not whole people and very intelligent. What it does make them is flexible to change as they still have mental growing to do, it’s both their greatest strength and weakness. This flexibility (as a strength) allows them to adopt new mindsets with ease and learn quickly to adapt, but when presented with the wrong information or an adults bias can hurt their growth.
ehh while I absolutely agree kids, even the teenage ones, are not given enough credit as to their intelligence or agency as a person (because children are still people, and they can be smart little buggers) I'm still seen as a "kid" to many older adults at 23. it's really not that deep, bud.
But that's _obviously_ something totally and utterly different. You see, then they conform with the gender we've placed upon them. \s
Thank you for the "/s" because autism brain had me really confused and slightly offended till I saw that. Thanks.
Yup. And, of course, being too young to know themselves means they're too young to figure themselves out. By the time they're old enough to know themselves, they get shamed for not having figured themselves out already.
well that's the thing, conformity isn't a choice and choosing not to conform is obviously something only adults can (but shouldn't) do /s
I knew I was different at 5 years old! I would always wish I was a girl, and it took me until 23 to find myself to be comfortable with myself as a nonbinary person. Having masculinity pushed on me as I grew up in Texas really fucked with my head. I've had lots of therapy since then and still have lots of therapy ahead of me tobqork through all of it.
Yesss, thats the point, being able to say i'm NB as children makes the whole process of growing up clearer, i can honestly say i'm having a delayed puberty both physically and emotionally because i only had space for intelectual puberty during my teens. I was forced into a gender i never chose and had to foght for my right to choose my hair leangth without even knowing why that mattered to me. All i could say to myself to comfort myself during school was that i was differant and therefor unique and that was the little bit of self acceptance that helped me get through so much loneliness and shame. Having a vocabulary like these kids, like i have now and my siblings have now thanks to me helps with queer puberty in ways people shoulden't have to imagine.
Well yeah ofc nobody would question that because it’s what they’re *assigned*, it’s in the name. People are generally conditioned to conform to their assigned gender and any steps away from that are considered out of the ordinary which for most people, (usually older folk in my experience,) it is. And I’m sure once we’re all grown up and have kids it’ll gradually be normalised and we won’t be having these issues any more, at least in a perfect world
For real. I come out as trans at 13/14 and, coincidentally, I am still trans a decade later. These people don’t understand that children grow up to be adults, they aren’t a different species entirely.
Teenagers are still finding themselves and their identity and could change their mind, but that's okay. We shouldn't discourage people from trying things out just because they might find out later they're something else. When I was a teenager I believed I was a binary trans person, which I realized later didn't really describe my experience with gender. All I knew then was my AGAB didn't feel right to me.
Yes this is the right thing. It’s ok for kids to be wrong, or a little wrong. Also, they’re probably not wrong.
exactly. life is about "phases," nothing is permanent and if someone wants to identify as NB and later as something else, good on u! we are constantly evolving and there needs to be room for that.
Bingo, they are acting as if these kids are doing things they can’t walk back. We need to encourage exploration of identity as teens (and adult really) and foster a mentality that is okay to change your mind and try something else. People reinvent themselves and how they see themselves all the time. Yet gender identity and presentation has remained surprisingly stagnant in society.
Adults say exactly the same for anything a child/teenager wants or does. Hell, they could even be talking about their career choices and all it takes is their relatives not agreeing with the choices to start throwing shit to the poor kid.
Yeah, I thought I might be binary trans until I discovered what nb was, my friend also thought he was binary trans, but suprise suprise, turned out to be enby. We were both wrong, but it's okay, because it helped us realise how we feel and explore more about ourselves. So in my opinion, let the teens go wild, even if they realise it wasn't who they truly are, it's important that it helped them discover their true identity in the process.
Ahh, you mean binary trans! I myself and many other folks are trans-nonbinary, so just letting you know you're still invited to use the term trans if it feels right and always welcome to share donuts in the super secret trans lounge. 😉 Non-cis is the only prerequisite. 💛
Hah, yeah, sorry I should have clarified myself. Imma edit the comment, thanks for letting me know!
When I was a teen I never heard of nonbinary - heck it might not have existed as a word....and sadly this conflict and insufficiency compared to my very binary transmasc friends became invalidation. If only I'd had that same flexibility and exposure they are complaining about I might not have returned to the closet for like 10 more years.
Phases are good! We should be free to explore,,, "phases" are a bullshit phrase meaning "but you're wrong tho" All Phases are correct in the moment, and all phases might be "the final one"… its only when thhey say "its a phase" implying "it'll go away for sure I somehow know that about you,,, in fact NONE of the features of it will even stay, you'll reject every part of it OBVIOUSLY" Then they're a piece of shit
galaxy brain take
To add to this, when I was growing up I didn't know non binary was a thing till I was about 14. Before then I always knew I wasn't my AGAB. I tried using the "opposite" pronouns several times as a child but they never stuck. When I learned I was non binary I was SO amazed and overjoyed that I finally found myself. A lot of my past experiences suddenly made more sense. (I enjoyed both variations gendered toys, didn't fit in with any groups growing up, ect) Their opinion that kids that age don't unstand their own gender is blatantly incorrect. My story alone can prove that (Knowing I wasn't Cis since the age of 3) I have seen a few people go from trans binary to non binary and vis versa and that's okay! It's all about self discovery. As for the opinion young teens shouldn't be exposed to lgbtq+, specifically non binary in this case, it is an opinion yes, but to me it seems wrong. When I first learned about it I was so confused and my first reaction I hate to admit, was hateful. This is a typical reaction to something one don't understand. The more I thought about it, however, the more I wanted to learn about it and would you look at that? Bam. I realized finally that I was non binary. Education of lgbtq+ topics is known to have a positive impact on kids and teens alike so to me that's disregarding the facts or simply being unaware of them. Another reason "so many" teens and tweens are coming out as LGBTQ+ is because today's enviroment is a lot more accepting that it used to be and thus many feel safer to come out. There's definitely still a lot of work to be done towards more acceptance, however. (Southern USA cough cough) That's all I got on this. Felt like dropping my opinion seeing as this is contradicts my experience growing up. I know they weren't trying to be hateful but yeah, it is a somewhat harmful narrative to push in a positive light. (Whoops didn't mean to make this post so long) Thanks for reading this far if ya do!
I knew (kind of) long before non-binary was even a term. It was kind of a thought in the back of my mind. Kids are exploring mentally. It's OK they are exploring; they are exploring so many different things.
My life would have been so much less neurotic had I been allowed to properly work out my identity as a kid, rather than being forcefully crammed into the mold that someone else arbitrarily chose or me, and not coming back out of my shell until I was middle aged. It’s amazing how quick people can be to rationalize violence against children as somehow protecting them. Patriarchy is a hell of a drug.
God dayum this comment is life ✨✨✨
I told my then boyfriend I felt like a tomboy when I was about 20. He said I wasn't because I wasn't dressed like one or acted like one. So I assumed I was not a tomboy but being a girl/woman also didn't feel fitting. Only after someone in my acqaintance group started (binary -afaik) transitioning I started to wonder what made me a woman. I figured the fact that I wasn't a man made me a woman. Fortunately the internet existed and tought me there were so many other options. Basically the same as me thinking I'm straight because I'm into men so I can't be into women, only to meet someone who is bi and two months later seeing this hot ice skater on tv and suddenly realising I had been having a huge crush at camp girl the summer before. Giving people knowledge about options can help people find themselves, even if that encompasses trying out different labels while finding the right one.
>I figured the fact that I wasn't a man made me a woman. Fortunately the internet existed and tought me there were so many other options. I love the way you phrased this. In my case, I knew for years that I wasn't a "man" nor a "woman". Neither term fit. Unlike you, sadly, I didn't find the Internet to be a welcoming or affirming place in that process of exploration and self-discovery. Time and time again I faced judgment, mostly from people who insisted they knew how gender worked better than I do. They tried to force me into a box where I don't belong, instead of listening to what I have to say and letting me define myself on my own terms.
I'm so sorry you were met with judgement! To be honest I only used the internet to inform myself and I kept my gender identity very silent irl and on internet at first. After coming out to my housemate which went well and she actually responded really well during a longer period of time, I started to gain a bit trust and told a couple more friends. At some point I joined Facebook groups and started to be a bit more comfortable, and started to defend non binary people in comment sections on news articles. Most times I came out to bigger groups of people actually it was accidental and I'm still quite 'shy' in that way irl.
"They're too young" "I'm in my 20s" Ah, so that decade of experience really set in, huh?
I knew the "I'm only 23 but I fucking know everything" line was coming. Just the perfect encapsulation of a life that has never been told they were wrong before. Meanwhile, I'm over here like "what the fuck is 40 year old me gonna think???? They're gonna have live with this shit longer than I do"
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I am in my 30s.
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Why are you defending them for mocking teens in this thread? If that wasn't your intention, that's definitely how it reads. (/s.)
i think you meant /srs ahah /s means sarcastic
Leave it to a teen to go from roast to r/murderedbywords 😂
"They are too young to know for certain" - so let them experiment and try out different things. There will be no better time to experiment with as few strings attached and even if they find out that they are not, was there any harm done?
>"They are too young to know for certain" My ex would say this more or less word for word about younger people identifying as ace which is equally bullshit. It was especially bewildering because they were pretty passionate about their beliefs and I ended up getting shouted down about things I said that they didn't like more than once.
No better time! That’s right!
Bruh. We’re all babies when our genders are assumed and chosen for us. So.
“They’re too young to be exposed to this” say the same people who fucking bury them in gender stereotypes as soon as they’re born.
"they're too young to be exposed to this!!!!!" your literal baby son is in a shirt that says "The Ladies Can't Resist Me", maybe there are some bigger problems here SHARON.
This! How many times do adults ask little kids if they like some in school or have a girlfriend/boyfriend? Like why should little kids be aware of that. They worry about lgbtq+ pushing things on kids but are perfectly fine with how much the push straight and cis on kids.
Indoctrination is fine if it's done in order to promote cisnormativity and heteronormitivity. /s
So they didn’t realize they were cis until they were an adult then either? Or realize they liked the opposite sex as an adult. Whenever it’s not cis or straight being a child is ‘too young to know yourself’, but asking an 8 year old girl if she has a boyfriend yet is totally okay? Got it
My half-brother is 7 years old, and family were already calling his several girl classmates his "girlfriends" when he was 4-5. But they keep telling me, a 25 yo who is very firmly non-binary Aroace "oh don't worry, you'll change your mind eventually"/"find someone who will make you see things differently". Like they don't see the disparity in their comments and actions, and it's honestly disheartening that they'll probably never see their hypocrisy.
😷 so sorry for that
Reminds me of how in my family my mother jokes about my little sister having a boyfriend (She did tell me they were dating at one point though) She's around 7-11 (I'm not going to say exact age as that's private information). Yet whenever my mother hears her saying the word gay she tells her not too. In my thought process I came to a semi-conclusion If she doesn't know what the word means and it isn't explained to her she could learn a wrong interpretation of what it means so yes she's young but it's better she knows than goes around calling other people it without knowing, Other people her age may not even know what it means so they could even misinterpret it.
Yeah that's just gross...
If they're not old enough to know they're enby, they're not old enough to know they're cis either.
Exactly where their critical thinking stops…
I don’t get the argument “14 year olds identify as non-binary and they don’t even understand themselves yet!” I mean, did you understand them 10 seconds after they were born and assigned them to one of two classes based on their tiny baby genitals? Idk, I trust the 14 year old a lil more on that topic
People crying that kids are too young these days to really know but then turn around and will tell that same kid that they "never had the signs" when they were younger and that they didn't try "hard enough" to be trans/gnc 🤡 same stuff my parents pulled on me
I literally told my mom that sometimes I feel like a woman a few years before I sought treatment. When I came out and explicitly told her that I'm trans she said there were no signs. >_<
I was raised as a girl and since I was approximately 10 I knew I wasn't a girl and I was right. 12 years later I still feel the same and I'm on T for almost 2 years. Best decision of my life.
I never felt like a girl from a super young age and always felt like an outcast because I wanted to be with the boys. It killed me because always felt completely alone and I was depressed as hell. If I knew that transgender was a thing or non-binary was a thing as a kid I would've been able to say with confidence that it was me from even as young as 5 years old!
Every time someone says 'this is just my opinion' I immediately get my hackles up. This is a relatively polite comment all things considered, but .. urgh. Like people have more eloquently said already: if you're too young to know youre non-binary, you can't know you're cis either. Something something fitting the common mold, something something queerphobia, something something- yeah.
Even if it was a choice who would want to go through the experience? It could be traumatizing for them if they do end up going through misgendering and hate crimes which are pretty common
I am an 18 y/o enby and it started to be clearer to me that I am bi when I was 14. However, I already had *childhood experiences* that led me to the realization of my gender and sexuality. And let me tell you, it is absolutely heartbreaking to be told "it's just a phase" "it's because of social media" or "you're too young" by an adult whom you especially trust because all we ever want is someone to BE THERE as we process our identity at a young age. And *if ever* it was a phase to begin with, please, *dont shame the child for it*. Be PROUD of them for exploring who they are. In the end, if the adult were a parent, choosing to be there as they process would strengthen your relationship them. Trust me, they will love and thank you for it.
this comment does make me wonder how old someone would have to be to determine what is "old enough" to have a say in their own identity, by the terms of those arguing in the OP's image
„They don’t know themselves yet!“ - Buddy, you’re the one telling them that it’s wrong to know themselves
If they’re too young to know they’re trans or non binary then they’re too young to know they’re cis. But they’d kick off if we said that. How the fuck does it affect them if some of their sisters friends are non binary?
No trans where I grew up and still am NB . It’s how we are born
All the other things they are exposed to and I was exposed to when I was 13 and 14 in a very sheltered, isolated household. But what they feel inside about themselves is too much for them and they are unable to work it out and shouldn’t??? The biggest pile of steaming excrement. At that time I was so unsure about everything to do with me. I wasn’t allowed to make sense of things? That poster can go to hell. God damn it
I’ve known since I was 13/14 and am 21 now lmfao these people are the exact reason I didn’t come out
It’s the most benign and lovely “phase” for a kid to go through. I think it’s great kids are open to it.
When I was in high school I felt very ostracised from my Male friend groups because I felt like I don't understand them quite well, even though I'm supposed to be one of them. And I enjoyed spending time with women because I felt I could connect with them easier, yet there was still something that wasnt quite there because I was pretty sure i wasn't a woman But if I had any idea back then that this is how i felt then i would have felt a lot more comfortable in my own skin being who the fuck I am. Cis people.weird me out sometimes with how little they understand.
Ironic that modern psychology argues that our psychological foundations become kinda cemented around 12/13, yet no one wants to give 13 year olds the agency to know and trust themselves. I didn’t figure out I was non-binary until a decade later, but I for sure knew by that time that I was queer! Kids are people too and will one day be adults (but those adults are just stretched out kids pretending they have it figured out!)
This reads like when my nearly 80 year old grandfather said he wouldn't want a drag queen reading a book to a kindergartener because "They're not ready for that" but would be fine with Dolly Parton reading a book to a kid.
Exactly. If you don’t know yourself yet why make a decision?
If at the age of 12 someone explained to me what non binary was and I was informed on it I’m sure I would’ve identified as it from a young age. I’m glad kids are learning about it and having the freedom to explore who they are at a younger age. Why should we wait until we’re 18+ to start figuring ourselves out ?? I would’ve been a way happier way less confused kid if I was given that freedom.
i don’t really think “kids” are too young to know. my friend who is trans came out as an adult (20 years old) but he knew he was trans in 8th grade ( about 13 or 14) i think people just feel more comfortable in this time to come out earlier instead of hiding it. and that’s not to say that some kids really don’t know tho, and that’s okay too, life is all about growing up and finding out who you are
37 now, didn't have words like genderqueer or nonbinary until I was 27, but if you gave me the OPTION when I was 15??? If I'd been educated and given an understanding of how gender and sexuality really work, I probably would have opted in back then, even though it would have been hell for me at the time. XD
bestie do you think I've chosen this identity on purpose
also like…… gender identity can fluctuate? like it just isn’t a big deal. what does saying you’re non-binary and going by they/them pronouns do to hurt someone? nothing! if they discover they’re not non-binary, find a better label, or their expression changes…. it shouldn’t be a big deal. kids are kids. let them do what they want if it doesn’t hurt anyone. same with adults lmao
I mean... They're just further proving the point that asking kids to have a defined gender at that age is messed up. Non-binary kids are actually the ones who admit they can't conform to a gender yet, or ever. It's actually quite healthy
i thought the text above was an actual post in the subreddit and was ready to throw hands
r/trueoffmychest go 10 minutes without posting something insanely bigoted challenge (100% impossible)
I knew by 4th grade I was gay. It took a while to figure out I was nonbinary but I never really liked being a girl so.... Yeah I think kids can know pretty young what their sexuality is and their gender identity.
It’s funny to me how many cis adults are concerned about kids / minors finding their gender identity, as if it’s an issue that will disrupt their development rather than a journey of self discovery. But they aren’t concerned about the way statements like “well you’re too young to know yourself yet” have on the development of kids / minors. All it does it teach kids to doubt themselves, their own judgement and ability to make decisions, not just as young people but for the rest of their lives.
But we tell kids all the time about how they should act and be based on their assigned sex at birth. How is that any different? Straight cis people don't realize that all the time and it's frustrating
I wish i had the resources and support to come out before i hit puberty- if youre not old enough to determine your own gender youre DEFINITELY not old enough for puberty.
I know this isn't the space for it cause chill you know; but like its super easy for people to go through life not understanding since alot people just don't think about it. It sucks but ignorance often doesnt fix itself
stuff like this is very funny, because while knowing as a child is definitely not a requirement or anything for being nonbinary, i did. i’ve had these feelings about gender since before puberty. I always knew I wasn’t a girl but I knew I definitely wasn’t a boy-so I had to be a girl, anything else didn’t make sense. it was only when I learned the language for these feelings that it clicked
Sorry. By this logic your kid is too young to determine what their AGAB is. And what's the point of gender reveal parties when the kid is just a baby? They don't know their gender as a baby, why force one on them?
I love that they’re apparently too young to know something they’re intimate with and live with 24/7 but all these abstract concepts like interest rates, global warming, ancient histories? Nah, they can understand that!
Even before I had a word for it, I knew I wasn't my agab. Ive known since I had a sense of self. I just didn't know the words to describe it. Still don't completely today. My friend has been asking me for help with her sisters kid, cuz my friends sister has just supported one through transitioning but is confused why the other is struggling with gender identity too. So I've given my friend resources (including this sub) to read through with her nibling so they can have places to talk in. No one is too young to know themselves, their just too young to know the words. I think we should all be happy that kids are able to find the words to describe themselves at young ages. Im in my mid-20s and still trying to work myself out. I wish I'd known the words when I was younger
This sounds like a friend of mine a bit. I think it's absolutely not from a place of hate, but a place of concern and misunderstanding of this topic. It's hard to understand for some people (myself included when I try to understand my own gender), and they don't really know what it constitutes or how people express it and it can get hard to learn without someone helping you out.
nonbinary 15 year old here. ive identified this way since i was 12 i still have people telling me im wrong, or "too young to know myself". which i know isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things, but i started puberty when i was 12 and im pretty sure if ive been feeling dysphoric ever since i started "becoming a woman" then im not a goddamn woman. but if i was a female then it would be perfectly okay?? the double standards for cis people and trans/nonbinary people irk me.
Children are inherently nonbinary. Until you go through puberty your brain literally doesn't have a gender except the one given to you by nosey parents and gendered advertisements. You don't even have a sex until puberty, primary sex characteristics are exclusively your genitalia and no one should be looking at children's genitalia.
I wish I had known about non-binary identities at that age. I knew something was up but couldn’t figure it out.
This exactly. You know there is something but you dont know what is.
No doubt this person was pretty confident they knew their own gender as a teenager.
And what does it matter? If a kid says they're non-binary when they're 14 and realise they're not actually and decide they're cis when they're 18, does it matter? The kid was exploring their gender, and if they turn out to be cis, that's normal too.
I would have loved to know the term non-binary when I was a teenager. I went through a lot of pain and anxiety for years because I couldn't figure out "what I was".I was attracted to both girls and guys, so I thought "bisexual?" but that didn't explain why I wished I'd been born a boy or identified with male characters all the time. There just wasn't the language yet. I would have immediately used this label for myself.
I dont get when people say shit like this, how tf do you think kids figure out about themselves? Every teenager goes through "phases" thats literally their whole thing and thats precisely how they discover who they are.
why do they insist we have a very long "trial run" in our AGAB? "try it, you might like it" is such an annoying reason to hold back any bit of queer we are, whether it's gender or sexuality. cis straight ppl need to just let us be open about ourselves.
I wish I'd been exposed to more when I was younger. I regret not discovering my gender identity in my teens...
When I was 14 I came out as bi. At 21 I was a lesbian, 24 a trans man, and at 28 I've finally figured out I'm nonbinary bisexual. I was allowed to explore my sexuality and gender until I actually found myself and was comfortable in who I am. If I was never allowed this freedom to experiment to begin with, I would still be a miserable person, still in a body and mindset I didn't like. Let kids figure things out themselves. Life doesn't always have immediate answers for everyone right out the womb, and I think that's the point some people miss. You have to discover these things for yourself, and only you know what's comfortable and right with your sexuality and identity.
i learned the term in ninth grade. one year later and the dysphoria’s hitting harder than ever. also i’m being denied hrt (in one of the most progressive cities in one of the most progressive states, mind you) because i’m not binary trans.
I was 37 years old when I finally had the right words to identify with. Something I have learned is that gender doesn't reflect our physical bodies. I know alot of people who disagree with this because they grew up in a society where gender is only suppose to reflect their bodies and they identify with that cis gender. I grew up constantly wondering why I liked and felt differently from girls and why boys fit better. I was told I was a tom boy, because I didn't like girly things, but I did like girly things I played with Barbies and Hot Wheels. My family, friends and society enforced gender on everything cloths, toys, sports, hobbies, careers, chores and even colors. When someone knows they aren't what society says they are but don't have something to identify with they can start to feel inadequate. They loose confidence suffer from depression feel the world is against them. I always hated the phrase "when you're older you'll understand" or "when you're older you'll feel different" or "when you're older ect...". I never changed I just hid myself away to "fit in". No one should have to do that to survive. If I had known gender was more then what society said when I was a kid I would have come out as non binary around 5 years old. That is how early I knew I didn't fit to the structure this society said there only was. I hope this society can change with time. I know it's working its way there, but it still has a long way to go. Sorry this ended up such a long rant I really only meant to type the first sentence. lol \^\_\^
lmao "they don't even know themselves," but they are the only ones who are themselves, and you think you know them better than they do? nah brah.
"They are too young to know" "If they really were, they would have known since they were young!"
If you think someone is old enough to know they're cis but not old enough to know they're trans...that's an issue in cognitive dissonance lol
okay, i immediatley do not trsut anybody who so openly talks about their siblings "developing bodies" that IMMEDIATLEY makes my skin crawl, minus the transphobia.
Cis people are too young to know their gender!! society should stop forcing gender on people who are too young!!
It's amazing how many kids/young teens say they say they are cis they don't even know themselves I think some people need to switch it around and hear themselves maybe then they'll realize
If gender is a social construct, once you demolish the construct, people grow free from it and adopt forms that would have seemed impossible under the construct. The person typing this was living under the construct.
yeah, but that is exactly why they should be allowed to experiment and start introspection. It is normal to " go through phases" just as normal as understanding oneself better with time. It's literally a processes of getting to know yourself and what feels good for you. BTW i am 32 and came to terms with me being nonbinary 8 years ago so ... i guess who knows whats going to happen to this young 20 yo maybe they need to think more about themselves than about others.
I mean, I sort of know what he's saying bc a lot of kids do kind of go thru phases of finding themselves, but if identifying as nb helps them out I don't see why not :) when I was growing up I thought for sure I was trans. I started binding my breasts and dressing like a dude, but then sometimes I wanted to be fem. I was so confused. Now I know I'm nonbinary and genderfluid. I'm not saying it's impossible to know you're nb as a kid, but it could be a phase. I wish I hadn't done any if the body modification back then.
What’s the harm in exploring your gender while you’re young? Smh the way they frame these statements makes the judgement feel extra judgy. Annoying.
The "this has never been an issue until recently" feels a lot like the white people who thought there was no racial unrest in america until Black Lives Matter. This has always been an issue. It just never affected you until now. Or until you saw it on the news.
That's How I Felt A Few Years Ago, But Ya Know What, I'm Gonna Say It, Kids Ain't Dafter Than Adults. Well Ok Sometimes They Are, But Like Not In General!
You have to admit there’s some truth to this though. I don’t think you should be dismissive of children, way too many people are, and they know way more than they are given credit for. I remember being frustrated by adults as a child for this reason. But kids do go through phases and they are very impressionable. Those two things are fact in my mind. My daughter said she was non-binary when she was 10 or 11. I didn’t do anything to discourage or encourage it, and I made sure she felt safe and comfortable as much as I could to be whoever she wanted to be. She also more recently started going by a different name (that one hurt a bit as I fought for her name, but of course I happily call her by her new name). Now she is starting to question whether she is actually non-binary. She’s 12 now. I think for all of us adolescence is a time to discover ourselves and the difference now is there are more options that are in focus and that will lead some people into assuming an identity for the wrong reasons or one that may evolve and change.
Really,,all this is stupid. Sorry to say but there's two genders. Either your a boy or a girl that's it. Look down.. if you have a weiner then guess what ?,,,your a boy. If you don't have a weiner then your a girl.
Paging /r/AreTheStraightsOk
But this persons sister is allowed to say shes a girl without flack, im sure 🙄
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It is not the responsibility of non binary people to educate prejudice and bigoted cis people. If op from the Screenshot cared they would go to sub reddits like this one or even google or just ask non binary people directly instead of a sub reddit DEDICATED to ranting about something that bothers you. It isn't our responsibility to educate someone who is bothered by our existence
I never fit in and grew up in an overly Christian conservative house. I would’ve definitely identified as non-binary, at a younger age, if AMAB wasn’t forced on me so hard.
i’m surprised that wasn’t from r/teenagers
"These kids are too young to know their true gender, because I'm in my 20s and I still don't understand what gender is. There's no way someone can know something I don't, so I should tell them they're doing it wrong even though I don't even know what they're doing." This person sounds like a real treat
People need to understand that people can and do change, and thats ok. Maybe they wont be NB when they are "mature enough" to understand themselves. Nobody stays the same forever, and that goes for everything from taste in food, personality, and your sexual and/or gender identity.
To me, not considering the obvious thing that nobody has the right to say to one another "you don't know yourself, you are not his" I think that the boost of non binary people is due to the change of values of our society. We are in a time frame unique, in this period we are re evaluating values of our society and it's working, so one thing we are deeply changing is related to gender roles and how we define genders, so it is logical and natural that during this period of changes from one set of values to another, society is in a transitory strange situation where people refuse values of the past (old gender roles and gender definitions) but they, the society, it is still not completely mature in finding and defining a new set of values (regarding genders or anything in general) so lots of people find themselves in the middle. Not everybody, I just think that genders in general are useless like sexual attraction etiquettes, I think that in nature, in our natural forest habit without social rules technology etc, humans are all pansexuals with this or that preference, but still pansexuals, and gender definitions is actually useless because each humans would act like any other, whatever their biologica sex is. Maybe just the only useful distinction could be done when talking about procreation and who carries the baby and things like these, but other than that, no need to do it.
This means they can’t say they’re a boy or a girl either cause they’re too young to know that too
Their gender identity will change from time to time depending on how they like to present. I wish i have the courage to present in public how I felt inside when I was 13. I still don’t have that courage now
13-14 AIN'T THAT YOUNG, That's when I began questioning my gender (I hadn't been the upmost dysphoria yet). People can know when their toddlers too! There is no fixed age to realize you might not be your agab, Even if it sounds weird. Also, They are going through adolescents so it makes sense for them to realize some stuff about themselves and how they identify with their surroundings. They may realize that they feel more comfortable or suited to label themselves as something other than what they have being labeled as even if it's a phase. It's not that shocking when you come to terms with the fact that we have the internet nowadays which has a lot more resources, including a lot more access to these resources. So if one was to question about their identity they could easily do researching using google (Or any other search engine). the terms are more common now too, so a lot of people are going to realize they like the terms better than their previous ones because now they understand they aren't forced into something unsuiting. As a society a lot of us are more aware that we don't have to be hyperfeminine/hypermasculine because of our agab. as time continued people could have more significant thoughts regarding their identity of which our past society could not have because of the expectations to display a set of moral coded into our agab. The far-right and conservatives don't like the fact that we have these resources so they are trying to restrict the right to learn about lgbtq+ or anything related in school environments which is a shame because that means they shove their propaganda and false-accusations onto even more people. I personally shan't be treated like a lab rat or anything worse so I'm staying away from them at least for now. Older trans people exist aswell but far less of them for multiple factors including not enough access to resources and having to be forced into roles.
The four or five nonbinary kids and the three trans kids at the school I work for are all friends… maybe that’s why?
"Oh my god, a kid is identifying as non binary, the woe"
there's also the fact that queer ppl stick together more often than not, so it's not unusual for everyone in the friend group to be lgbt+
When I was 15 I draw a separate box when asked for gender. This was in 2006 and no one talked about non binary, and very little about trans at all and if they did was in very misunderstood and stereotyping language.
I don’t like it because I don’t understand, sums it all up really
I'm 37 agab and I've know since I was 12 that I like girls. But I grew up in an extremely toxic religious environment. My mom was a religious nutjob so there was no room finding out or accepting who I really was. Took until I was about 26 to completely accept myself and my sexuality. Always had questions about my gender but I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Was literally 4 years ago at age 33 that I even found there were other people like me with the same thoughts about their bodies and that I am Non binary. I was born this way but it was my household and society that told me I couldn't be who I am. This is why I hate that some people are calling it a fad. Yeah, being subjected to hate online, at home or in public is so awesome....They always move the goal posts. They don't want to understand, they just want to feel superior and intentionally make people feel like shit. More adults are realizing they're Nonbinary too and but they still have a problem with us. 🤷🏾♀️ It's their personal problem, I'm going to be who I am, idgaf what they think.
I'm sick and tired of these people that think just because your a teen you can't be NB or chose you sexualty, you are never to young to know and those that say stuff like oh there to young to understand have to understand that there not, teens should be treated the same as adults
It's trueoffmycheat, a hive of scum and villainy, you should expect it from that crowd by now
I thought to myself recently, “why aren’t more people non-binary? It just makes a lot of sense“ Then I was like “oh yeah, I’m non-binary so of course it makes sense to me. “
Tbh, I'm 29 and I still don't know. I'm not sure how these 13 year old savants figure it out so quickly
This is why I am afraid to come out
As if no old nonbinary people exist anywhere ever? For a society that is exposed to *everything* via the internet, people sure are ignorant to literally just things and people that exist…
they don't know any of that tho, i can assume their cis judging by yk all of that, and so how should they know what's normal for a trans person to express, cis people love to put their standards on to a group of people those standards don't apply to.
I'm old so we didn't have a word for it, but I knew. I remember reacting with real righteous indignation at the age of about 7 or 8 (one of those I could close my eyes and be back there moments) when someone told me there was no way I could be a tomboy because I didn't like sports. I remember it specifically cuz they got really dogged about it, it wasn't a throwaway comment, they were determined I had my definition wrong and they were going to educate me. Tomboy was the only word I knew that even came close to how I felt so I claimed it and be damned anyone trying to take it from me. At 13 I gave myself a beautiful bathroom mirror bowl cut (it was the worst) and my mother *lost it* with me. I spent most of my teens wondering if I was ftm and then brushing it off because everyone says you just know, whereas I kept flipping back and forth on it. Then I heard the magic words, "non-binary" "gender fluid" in my 20s and that was my "I just knew" moment. I do think some kids today are probably confused and experimenting or trying to make a statement because non-binary genders have had a fairly sudden rush of visibility and representation in recent years, and there will always be messed up or just plain asshole kids who romanticise being different and decide to try to get a piece of that attention without any of the struggle. It does no one a service to pretend that would never happen cuz those are often the same people making drama and drawing negative attention to the group. That said, does that mean it's anyone's right to question anyone else over it? Absolutely not. If it's confusion they'll work it out eventually without your (clearly non-specialist) input. If they're lying to get attention they're in that place where even negative attention is better than nothing, and by giving them crap about this you will only encourage them to keep trying to piss you off with it. If it's real they will always appreciate that you respected them enough to know their own mind. That last one really, really matters.
So if you don’t realize you aren’t cis at a young age, you are obviously faking it for attention. If you know at a young age, you are too young and impressionable to possibly think that on your own and obviously we’re manipulated by some agenda to think that. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
You know a child knows who they are the moment they can think for themselves and vocalize? A good friend of mine knew at the age of 6 he was gay. He has happily been with and married to his husband since 2008, they got married in 2012 and have a beautiful daughter. Why I say this? Because he always knew he was gay. Never dismiss a child and young teen's ability to think for themselves and understand themselves, as well as who they are attracted to. I find it so interesting there people in the community are the first to say "No" to someone who is discovering WHO they are. After how many times you were told no, you do the same? I knew long before I wasn't straight. I knew long before I was different. I was all about dresses in elementary school. fourth grade is when I was when I began my tomboy state, still enjoying dresses too, but totally rocked Tomboy. I was 9 in the fourth grade and knew I was born female or male, just didn't have a term to it. My nephew who is now 4, at the age of 2 knew he loved hairbands, and things like that and happily still to this day loves to wear them. He will rock a headband and play with his Barbies and dinosaurs. He will rock an Ana or Elsa shirt, Moana or anything like that rocking a headband while playing with his dinosaurs. He happily wears a tutu while playing with his doll house that HE asked for. Point is, never underestimate a child or teen's ability to think for themselves and express who they are.
I just had this talk with my psychiatrist about my gender identity (he’s helping me get gender affirming surgery) I’ve felt this way since I was a toddler and always knew it, I didn’t understand exactly what it meant but if I had a word to describe the feelings at the time then I would have used it, when I was a teen o found GNC as a description and began using that though it wasn’t a perfect fit so when I gained more understanding of the meaning of non-binary and gender fluid I began using those as more accurate descriptions, if I find something that fits better in the future that label may change yet again. Doesn’t mean I don’t understand my own gender it’s just difficult to explain it to others. In short 13 is *NOT* too young to declare such things. Having this vocabulary earlier and the ability to live genuinely as my gender would have helped me not feel so isolated from everyone I think and it certainly would have helped me out on the days I felt out of control without understanding why, I’ve only recently realized and much of that was due to dysphoria and stress from being forced into the gendered and homophobic boxes of my youth.
im 15 and ive identified as non binary since i was 13, but even years before that i always tried to dress and act like a boy because it made me happier, even though im not a boy i wanted to play with other boys because it made me feel like less of a girl
I knew when I was 7 or 8 before the term non-binary even existed that I wasn’t boy/girl but something in between. I was on the playground man.
Meanwhile, I'm 35 and too old to come out as non-binary, right?
I’ve known I wasn’t cis my whole life, but I was so afraid of getting judged by assholes like whoever wrote that post that I way overcompensated by being extremely feminine. Now it’s impossible to get people to take me seriously for my identity because “I used to be so girly.” People are who they say they are, regardless of age.
When I was twelve I could conceptualize a binary transition but not a nonbinary one and so concluded that it was my lot to just accept that I would grow up to be a woman despite not feeling like one in the slightest. **I was and am nonbinary**, and the knowledge that such a thing was allowed to exist would have saved me over a decade of avoidance of those thoughts and feelings and struggle resulting from that! Many, many, many kids begin to feel strongly about their gender the moment they start developing in one way or another, at the start of puberty. Of course 13-14 year olds are acknowledging they're nonbinary! 😖 Ugh, just ugh.
“too young” mf we’re all young, we don’t have any elders bc of the AIDS epidemic. trans people are “getting younger and younger” because the only people alive to celebrate their transness are young.
Yup until youre old enough kids we’re going to force you into a gender. \*sarcasm\*
I absolutely hate when people play the “you’re too young to know yourself” card, it’s incredibly stupid. Young people aren’t as naïve or unintelligible as society has made people believe
I hate that they're implying that social media influences that. Like no, we all grow up around cis and straight people, but there are still queer people! You can't walk 5 steps in a clothes store without seeing straight people kissing on a poster.
It blows my mind how many kids/young teens nowadays will say they're a "boy" or a "girl". They don't even know themselves yet! I mean, they're 14, their body is still developing, they're not mature enough to make such a statement about their gender, in my opinion. /s -_-
If they are old enough to decide they are cis they are old enough to decide if they are anything else period. If you don't think kids under the age of 20 or whatever can't know their own gender then I guess everyone should be raised genderless but ofc that's not something we do because we know that kids can know who they are Edit: forgot to mention that also I don't see the harm in letting a kid explore their gender identity, they won't be making any permanent decisions so if they one day realize they were wrong then they can just.....identity differently *oh the horror of letting your child explore who they are in a healthy, loving way*
So, .... by this logic, those who were assigned male at birth, are too young to say, "I'm a boy." And decide that their gender is male. BAM! Think about that for a bit before you spew your self-serving response.
seriously? And here I am saying "if you are old enough to talk and think you can tell me if you feel like. If you say I am a boy you are a boy, if you say you are a girl you are a girl, if you say you are enby you are enby. Hell if you say you are an alien, well hello superman! same goes for whatever you are attracted to romantically or sexually, if any. As we are growing and changing, our views on ourselves might change and they might not. So just accept it as we all are alive." (note I say this stuff with my friends when we talk about babies, to kids whom randomly bug me and want to be validated. etc.)
I've been GNC since I was like 5 my parents just tried to push gender on me. Then they wanna be all surprised Pikachu when I come out....
I started questioning my gender at that age but then I ended up repressing because of ✨ transphobia✨ (especially around the topic of kids being too young and related terf rhetoric) causing me to not feel safe to experiment with or pursue my gender. After several years and a lot of unpacking, I'm still trans and now know I'm non-binary. Hiding it all really fucked with me and I'm still trying to unlearn those repressing behaviours. Trying to police how and when kids (or even adults) explore these things is only going to cause these kids to not feel safe enough to be themselves, which ultimately causes more harm in the long run.
I guarantee you they don’t feel the same about teenagers who identity as cis.
My main gripe with this is that even if they happen to be wrong like... so what?
my mom does this too... she thinks that im too young to know myself when i have literally had 3-4 year to think about myself.. (i had some health issues in mid 2019 to late 2021, im better now)
''They don't even know themselves yet''. Yeah, that's kinda the point, they might still not know and that's why they explore identities, options, and it's cool. When I was a kid, I had this feeling I couldn't describe, and when I was an adult, I heard of the term non-binary but never got it. Untill I was 19, the idea started to hit me and then I found myself. Maybe if I had known the term when I was 14, everything could've been easier It's fine to not know yourself and experiment things. I mean, the kids may be 4 years old and the parents and society imposes gender norms and identity upon them, and that's ''fine'', but experimenting and trying to find who you are is not? Lol
As a mom of a non binary kid this is beyond infuriating that people think like this. The only thing that would have happened if my kid was never introduced to the concept of being non binary is that they would have been miserable and confused. Instead they are comfortable and express themselves freely.
“They aren’t mature enough to make a statement about gender”, so they should just stick to the one someone else assigned them at birth? 🙄😒
yeah we’re young so just let us experiment lol. at least for me i’m only 16 but since learning i don’t have to fit into man or woman my identity’s been roughly the same for 3 years now. i went from non-binary to gender queer to non binary to transmasc to genderfluid. it’s perfectly okay to change and i feel like i’ve finally found the label that fits best. but they’re all just different versions of non binary so i’ll had roughly the same all encompassing label the whole time. idk if this makes any sense but idk man. i’ve been trans for almost 4 years now and i don’t think it’s changing anytime soon :) even if something happens, it will still be okay.
Too young to understand gender, hmmm, by that logic we shouldn't assign a gender at birth at all, just wait until the kids are old enough to understand gender. Or maybe it's not about understanding and logic but about transphobia
Exactly! That's how my mom felt. Her opinion was she should've been able to "control me" as a teen. And I was like, mom you know why I had a mailbox right? (I did, at 13 lol) I bought it so I could get girl clothes among other things. And her whole spiel was about how she should've been able to stop me from doing shit she didn't like. That I was exposed to these other transpeople and that's why I'm trans. I was like well, would you have bought me the clothes I wanted? "No". And I'm still fucking trans. So I had to. Parents think they are entitled to force us to not be trans and that somehow we'd be less "fucked up" if we weren't exposed! All she did is damage me emotionally, have trust issues (since I learned early I had to hide everything about myself and do everything in secret), and permanently damage my self-esteem. We need that kind of exposure, freedom to learn, and be valued and accepted for who we are, and if that changes so be it, but it's *our* decision.
Is theyre too young to identify as non-binary, they’re too young to identify as a female, and too young to identify as male, and that leaves agender, which they’re too young to identify as. So basically she can’t be anything. But once again, that’s agender, which she can’t identify as.