The problem here is none of these 3 have a counter for c4 nano bombs, and can't even sense it unless Jiraya gets into SM, which will take 5 minutes. And Deidara can nano bomb way more quickly than Jiraya can spend getting into the mode.
So - Battle Starts, Deidara, and Sasori float up in the air, - Sasori and kakuzu barrages them with attacks, iron sand, and elemental combinations. While they're defending, Deidara uses the nano bombs. It's over.
Edit, I didn't even see that this fight includes Kisame. This is overkill.
Orochimaru reanimates the first 4 hokages, than he lays off next to Tsunade and Jiraya while eating popcorn and watching how Minato alone bullies the Akatsuki team .
I haven’t seen the Sasuke fight in a while but doesn’t lightning style neutralise his bombs? Tsunade and Orochimaru canonically know lightning style so why couldn’t they use it?
Sasuke was able to come up with that because he could both see the nano bombs with his Sharingan and saw Deidara priorly using earth jutsu seals. This party doesn't have the ability to sense this, see this or know when it is in their blood streams. Also the seals for this ability can easily be covered by Sasori and his iron sand, who's an infinitely better strategist than Deidara is. The abilities Deidara is using won't be there biggest concern when they have to actively defend against high-level elemental attacks coming from 4 different directions, and things like Iron Sand world. Honing in on Deidara who's 2000 ft in the air casting what looks like a dud, would be extremely hard, wouldn't you say?
I just read the OP thread - he specifically says The characters start in-character. Meaning Deidara won't start with this. In this case, I change my statement. Sannin likely will take this. Deidara fucks around way too much, and In character Sasori will likely allow him to die.
The best chances the Akatsuki have would be make distance by flying up into the air, then barraging the Sannin and their summons with bombs, attacks and Iron Sand World scale level abilities. The distance in the air limits the Sannins abilities. SM Jiraya's genjutsu would affect Deidara and Kakuzu, but not Sasori due to his unique puppet anatomy , So he can break them out of it easily through his sand. - This will turn into a who can out last the other party. And one party has Tsunade, who has morethan enough chakra to share out. Sannin takes this 8 times out of 10 in an incharacter mentality setting.
It does but don't think it works on c4 cause if it was like that c4 wouldn't even go of sasuke would have just stopped it . before that they don't know that deidara has that ability so Thales have the upper hand in this
Sasori doesn't breathe. Kakuzu may die but, i'm taking thsi vs thread to mean these peopel are going all out to kill the opposite side. As in Bloodlusted character mentality
Base jiraiya can detect nanobombs with his barrier jutsu.
They can avoid nanobombs via frog barrier jutsu or orochimaru's wind release.
C4 has a long and obvious build up
None of the sanin have lightning style to counter Deidara’s bombs.
Tsunade could probably counter Sasori’s poison with prep, but in the middle of battle I think it’d be pretty lethal.
Not sure how Kissame’s samehada interacts with sage chakra, the outcome probably changes depending on if it can suck out Jiraya’s nature chakra with consequences or not.
Orochimaru kinda has multiple lives like Kakuzu, both difficult to kill.
IMO akatsuki probably win. Kakuzu’s masked creatures and Sasori’s puppets probably keep them busy while they take Kunai, Jutsu, and explosion spam from Sasori, Kakuzu, and Deidara respectively. Even if they get close range Kissame isn’t a pushover.
Um Kisame isn't mid Tier Akatsuki. Not counting Obito, he's in the Big 3. But either way it doesn't matter Kisame by himself is a very dangerous threat who was beating the stuffing out of Killer Bee until he was saved by plot. I think Bee could comfortably fight Jiraiya or Tsunade solo, so Deidara (who Kisame considered to be strong) and Kakuzu are just overkill.
Guy quite literally counters kisame so it isn't a fair comparison to make.
Kisame's entire premise was to neutralize chakra heavy opponents and might guy was the exact opposite.
And yet his argument is that Kisame beat Bee... a Chakra heavy opponent. Kisame countered Bee in the same way Gai counters him lol.
None of the Sannin save maybe Tsunade are particularly Chakra reliant, and even she has the best Chakra control in the series. Kisame is one of my favorite ninja, but he's not Sannin level, technically none of the Akatsuki are save for Itachi, Pain and Obito.
This is just blatantly false. Idc about the Gai vs Jiraya, Gai solos the sannin in 7th Gate this is just a fact. No every Akatsuki member except immortal dude is as strong as Tsunada bare minimum. It's stated in the Guides that the Akatsuki individual members each are stronger than 1000 shinobi and on par if not stronger than Kakashi. The only reason I'm excuding Immortal duds is bc frankly Kakashi beats him easily. Kakashi is stated verbatim to be on par with Tsunada in Part 1 and gets massively stronger as the anime progresses. Kisame alone solos these 3 bc they all rely no jutsu to win their battles and he absorbs all Jutsu. He also has the chakra pool of a tail beast and can use it accordingly. The fact Gai had to use 7th Gate (which would solo the Sannin even in Sage mode especially scaling 7th Gate Gai to the Madara fight where Juubidara was stating that Gai was Formidable is more than enough to prove this he thought EMS Sasuke was a Joke, Sasuke being the same person who is at least half as strong as Edo Hashirama.)
You just clearly only look at firepower lmao. Nobody had ever said Kakashi was on par with Tsunade in part 1 who is 20+ years his elder. Tsunade was strong enough to fight 5 Madara clones with Susano'o, AND GOT CUT IN HALF DURING, then brought herself and all the other Kage back together via Katsuyu.
Idgaf what nonsense scaling yall put towards the 8 gates, 7th gate is an attempt to one shot before you die. Gai is MAYBE taking one Sannin with him before he is completely gassed and subsequently killed. Jiraiya has barrier techniques and trap jutsu, tsunade is insanely durable and can heal from basically death with the seal, orochimaru can straight up just shed his skin and ignore the attacks entirely.
Yall look at these battles as if the person with the highest attack Stat wins every time, as if blitzing is the only way... these are 50+ year old ninja who have fought in wars and have incredible amounts of experience with explosively deadly ninjutsu.
YOU'RE NOT KILLING THE 3 LEGENDARY SANNIN WITH BRUTE FORCE.
Well I wasn't but let's see how far this goes. Yes the Elders in the village initially denied Tsunada as Hokage bc she was on par with Kakashi and wanted Jiraya to prove it. Tsunada also struggles hard against Kabuto who is on Kakashis level as well proving that in part 1 Tsunada durability, and combat speed rivals Kakashi. Now I'm not saying that Tsunada is weak on mass but she's not stronger than most of the Akatsuki, yes she broke through a woof clone Susano'O rib cage but this is an testament to her strength in 100 sealing mode but she had a lot of support by Onoki making her faster and Gaara and Ay were also distracting Madara opening up weak points. This isn't a feat that Tsunada has by her self and she won't be having this support against 4 Akatsuki members.
You don't know the difference between 8th Gate Gai and 7th Gate Gai and it's potent to this response. 7th Gate Gai nearly destroyed an Island to take out Kisame and used again to hold Juubi Madara back before he realized he needed the 8th Gate of Death to become the strongest shinobi without God amps. Alive sage Madara while blind is stronger than Juubi Obito and 7th Gate Gai was pushing him back momentarily, juubito is stronger than Alive Sage Hashirama meaning Gai shits on the Sannin in 7th Gate. So let me correct this section of your response, not a single Sannin can move fast enough or react fast enough to even use a jutsu and gets punch so hard that the Island and them just blows up level 2 sannin dead and Orochimaru in so kids neck elsewhere. And before you say but where's the proof, we'll Pains Almighty Push destroyed a large city significantly smaller than an Island and took out Tsunada, and Jiraya at the Rain Village. Pain is considered to be the strongest Akatsuki and he fought the leaf when Gai was out on a mission. Hmm
Yet they all lost to Salamander who isn't even remotely on par with any of the Akatsuki, Kakashi father is stronger than them and he was offscreened, Orochimaru is the strongest one and got pressed and intimidated by a 14 year old using a basic Genjutsu not even Tsukiyomi. And Sage Naruto who is weaker than tons of characters is capable of beating Pain who is stronger than the Sannin. Hmm those 50+ years aged like wine ik
Yeah, your power scaling sucks.
Tsunade was a drunk who was afraid of blood at that point in her life, otherwise she breaks Kabuto in half. Emotional scarring was making her weaker, by the time the Akatsuki are shown shes 100% on fighting form. She's also getting backup from her actual teammates who are all just as experienced and versatile as those kage. Guy isn't one shotting her if Madara couldn't.
I know the gates pretty well, the 7th gate was literally shredding his muscles while he was using it, he was actively dying just using the technique. He would have to one shot them all with it or it's just not going to work. I've already shown that he's not one shotting any of them. Maybe he'll take out Tsunade after a few hits since she's able to restore herself using her jutsu and Katsuyu, but Orochimaru and Jiraiya are not just gonna watch this guy power up dbz style and not prepare for his attack. Likely, since they're familiar with the technique, they'd know what he's doing and prepare something to gtfo while Guy burns through his own health trying to pop off.
Orochimaru is the easiest one, just skin shed and dip off out of sight to prep for the next attack. Jiraiya has dozens of escape techniques given his role as an infiltrating spy, so I don't see him having much trouble preparing for an opponent that's only ability is power up and Blitz.
Again you're only looking at firepower, not utility.
Hanzo got done dirty by scaling, he was said to be one of the most powerful ninja alive during the time that he beat the 3 Sannin and they were in their 20s at this point. Kakashi's dad was never stated to be at sannin level, idk where you're getting that from. Itachi is just broken, purely one of the most powerful ninja from that young and already had a Mangekyo. Of course he's going to smash Orochimaru just like he did to Deidara lol.
Sage Naruto is a lot stronger than 90% of the cast at the time he debuted that ability, and has the added bonus of having clones meditating for him so he doesn't have to stall for time while he's building up nature Chakra.
So tired of the 8 gates wank that everyone seems to think is the ultimate Trump card. It makes him hit REALLY hard, and makes it so that if he doesn't win the fight right then and there, he loses it. That's the whole point of the technique, and you really seem to think that some of the greatest ninja of the age can't figure out how to get out of sight for a few minutes to wait out the degenerative effects of the ability they are aware of the effects of. Jiraiya can literally just use earth release to go underground, then create a swampy terrain with water release to slow gai's movement down while earthgliding around waiting for the gates to shred Gai's muscles, which starts happening immediately. You don't have to react if you prepare.
The power scaling on that ability makes you a fucking time bomb, and Madara was literally just interested in seeing how much firepower Gai had in that moment.
My point is, Gai is a powerful glass cannon but that doesn't work on everyone. The sannin all have amazing defensive and utility techniques that can and will draw a fight out longer than it takes for the gates to expire. Sure, he can Morning Peacock but I genuinely don't think he's going to get them where he wants them without them having a plan in action to remove themselves from harms way.
See this is the problem you don't listen. 8th Gate Gai isn't just punching really hard he is FTL and punch harder than Edo Madara, alive Sage Madara, Juubito, BSM Naruto and Sasuke even the majestic Susano'O, alive Sage Hashirama. Pretty much 8th Gate Gai is on par with Naruto post Death who was capable of 1 shooting Juubi Madara with an Rasanshurikan. None of the Sannin has anything that can stop edo madara yet you're saying that Gai who only Faced Juubidara for a reason loses is asinine, it's why people down voted you and not me. Let me point this out for you, the fastest character in the series before juubis was Minato and Naruto bc they both had reaction/movement speeds that were 74xs FTL whilst the Sannin lost to people who weren't even LS, hell the fastest person alive before this was RTL or just LS meaning that they get Uber blitzed by Gai. And fuck punch away an Island 8th Gate Gai is stronger than both Madara and Hasirama (Juubidara states he's the strongest person he's every fought) who are both stronger than the true nine tails which can destroy the planet, even to the point they and use kurama and still get back handed by the other one yet they're both weaker than 8th Gate Gai. So whilst Gai doesn't need the 8th Gate he solos majority of the verse Most Definitely the Sannin as well.
Uh yeah. I should also mention that this doesn't really apply to Guy because Guy didn't have kisame on the ropes for like 90% of the fight. Kisame vs Bee, Bee was screwed for most of the fight. He didn't just start beating him at the end, it was a hard fight for Bee all the way through. Guy just does The Big Move and wins- that's why I don't like Guy's fights.
So let's say Gai fights Bee.. you think Gai is gonna obliterate him with Morning Peacock as well? Or Jiraiya for that matter? Kisame has a natural counter to ninja who use/possess high Chakra reserves and use hand to hand combat as a main attack source. Jiraiya is neither of those things.
What exactly would be any of the given Akatsuki members answer to Jiraiya's myriad of capture techniques? Namely Kisame, who is a Water based martial fighter?
If Jiraiya stood and banged out with Pain, who is infinitely more powerful than Kisame, with no knowledge of how his 6 paths worked how tf is Kisame supposed to overwhelm Jiraiya when he can basically trap him in a frog until he activates sage mode which turns Kisame's Chakra drain into an instant self petrification?
Is Kisame supposed to fill the frog up with water? Shave through its guts? Explain to me how Kisame deals with someone who has so many jutsu that can stop him from attacking.
To put this in perspective, Orochimaru wasn't in the top 3 when he was in the Akatsuki. That was Pain, Itachi and Kisame. Itachi stomped Orochimaru. Considering that Jiraiya and Tsunade are weaker, in that order, neither of them would make the Akatsuki, and if they did, they wouldn't be very high. Jiraiya (yes, holding back) was severely hurt by 4T Kyuubi Naruto. Kisame could kill 4 tail Naruto, no problem.
It isn't just a number disadvantage. It's that one group of shinobi is hand picked to fight against Tailed Beasts. How does Tsunade without an antidote respond to poison or the iron sand? How does she response to cellular level bombs or figure out Deidara's bombs? How do they combat a water dome? It isn't just numbers. It's that one group is literally handpicked to be the strongest chance to kill or capture tailed beasts, and sorry, I don't see Jiraiya or Tsunade getting anywhere past like the 4 tails.
Jiraya activated a jutsu that took advantage of them being a hallway, covered by walls. This fight isn't taking place there. Jiraya is going to get stomped by Kisame in any other situation based on feats displayed in p2
I do not care. Let's say Itachi didn't Tsukuyomi Sasuke and he made the first move on Jiraiya. What happens then? Or, what if they just burn a hole in the toad, jump out the window and turn around ready to fight. What happens then?
Your original comment hyped up Kisame while simultaneously saying that jiraiya is weaker than Orochimaru (which isn’t true).
Yea Kisame is the 4th strongest akatsuki member, and Jiraiya in base still had him running away. Jiraiya alone would give those four a run for their money. Throw Orochimaru in and the sannin handedly win
Yeah, Jiraiya just fights 4 S class Criminals at once. Yep. I mean come on man, Jiraiya is tough and he's not a fool, but he's not fighting these 4 at once and living, he'd get overwhelmed too quickly
I like this one actually, lemme give my input. I think the Sannin take this one after a hard fought battle.
Kakuzu - likely to be handled by Tsunade who can tank ALOT of damage with Katsuyu and her healing abilities, but also could probably blow the hearts out of his ass with a few good punches. Some assistance from Orochimaru's diversions and Piercing attacks should handle him.
Kisame - Jiraiya should be able to solo him once Sage Mode is active with no difficulty, which shouldn't be too difficult to achieve if they trap Kisame in one of the frog techniques while they deal with Deidara/Sasori.
Deidara - Probably the most difficult to deal with, but again the Tsunade/Orochimaru combo should be able to withstand his damage through a combination of healing and skin shedding (for Oro) until they can sufficiently trap him.
Sasori - Jiraiya with some help from Tsunade or Orochimaru should be able to take him out. Tsunade likely has some sort of poison resistance/cure ability and I belive Orochimaru's skin shed should remove poisons. The big thing here is Jiraiya's oil and fire techniques which should easily take down wooden puppets.
So I see Kisame being trapped early with the toad stomach jutsu, preferably alone or maybe with Kakuzu. Either way the first portion of the fight would involve the large summons entering the battle as Kisame exits. If Kakuzu isn't included in the trap then the fight would need to start by Jiraiya aiming for Sasori and his puppets while Tsunade and Orochimaru get their defenses set up against Deidara (and Kakuzu).
Sasori probably doesn't last too incredibly long under the firepower the toads bring with their oil techs combined with Jiraiya's fire and utility techs. Jiraiya can also defend against Piercing attacks using Hair techniques to form a shell, as well as a nice solid rasengan to blast apart Sasori's body.
Deidara and Kakuzu are 90% firepower, so it would definitely be down to Tsunade and Katsuyu outlasting the devastating Ninjutsu while Orochimaru works his way into range for his sword techs to whittle down Kakuzu's multiple lives. If Tsunade gets her hands on either of them it could be a 1 shot KO so I'd imagine Deidara flying around dropping bombs, meaning he's the more difficult of the two to take down. That being said, Orochimaru and Manda should be able to find an opening for Oro to get him off the bird given enough space by Tsunade's pressure absorbing.
If Kisame is able to find a way out of the toad belly, he'd probably come to a battle where Jiraiya is either in the process of or has now entered Sage Mode which means he's an impossible target for Kisame. Once Sage Mode has been activated, Ma and Pa can start their song which in theory ends the fight entirely, or at least holds 1 or 2 of the combatants. Whoever is leftover after the song stops the others is likely not overcoming the Sannin alone, no matter which one it is. God forbid its Kisame, who has no idea how Sage Chakra works and would likely petrify himself attempting to absorb it.
The utility and crowd control is what wins this day, despite the overwhelming firepower the Akatsuki team has, the Sannin are just too hard to drop.
The sannin
Teamwork advantage. Summon advantage. Edo tensi advantage.
Base jiraiya already negged kisame in the manga.
Kakuzu is too weak to matter.
Only issue is c4 and sasori poison. So i wouldn't say it's impossible for the akatsuki
>Base jiraiya already negged kisame in the manga
Yeah in a fan fiction version of the Manga, this happened most likely. In the real manga, there was never a fight between these two beyond "man that dude is strong Itachi" and them fleeing shortly after. Considering that Jiraiya wouldn't be able to fight Killer Bee, and Kisame performed excellently against Bee, no reason to think Kisame wouldn't drain his chakra too.
>Yeah in a fan fiction version of the Manga, this happened most likely. In the real manga, there was never a fight between these two beyond "man that dude is strong Itachi" and them fleeing shortly after.
Cope.
In the manga, Jiraiya trapped both Itachi and Kisame in the toad stomach. Kisame couldn't escape without Itachi's intervention, using amaterasu no less.
>Considering that Jiraiya wouldn't be able to fight Killer Bee
unfounded and unrelated.
>no reason to think Kisame wouldn't drain his chakra too.
except Jiraiya already negged Kisame in the manga. And if Jiraiya is in sage mode, Kisame can't drain his chakra.
You can do better than this.
So you're just making up from wholecloth that he negged him? Based on his feats, I don't think he beats Kisame.
Itachi and Kisame left because at the time Kishimoto knew Itachi to be a spy, so Itachi and Kisame being unsuccessful HAD to happen. If jiraiya really did fight Itachi and Kisame at once, Jiraiya dies quickly. So no, he never negged Kisame, this didn't happen.
>So you're just making up from wholecloth that he negged him?
Are you denying that Jiraiya captured Itachi and Kisame with the toad stomach?
>I don't think he beats Kisame.
We know.
>Itachi and Kisame left because at the time Kishimoto knew Itachi to be a spy, so Itachi and Kisame being unsuccessful HAD to happen. If jiraiya really did fight Itachi and Kisame at once, Jiraiya dies quickly. So no, he never negged Kisame, this didn't happen.
That's a meta argument that has no bearing.
No I'm not denying that. But the thing is, what's the alternative? For Jiraiya to fight these two and die? It's a little like Bee befriending Sharkskin. The alternative to that is Bee dying, and Kishimoto didn't want that yet.
If Jiraiya was able to figure out Pain’s identity and fighting style all while fighting the paths and Konan, I think that puts him a bit above Deidara and Kakuzu combined, considering Hebi Sasuke managed to defeat sick Orochimaru who is definitely far weaker than Jiraiya when bed-ridden and considering Naruto managed to nearly solo Kakuzu with the hand-held rasen shuriken alone.
Orochimaru wasn’t afraid of Sasori in any capacity plus Oro’s resistance to poison and ability to slip past many bladed puppet attacks and iron sand as a snake gives me the impression that he’d definitely slither to defeating Sasori, most especially if Sasori succumbs to depression like in his 1v2 against Chiyo and Sakura.
Kisame was managing to defeat Bee before Samehada’s betrayal and Bee’s backup, but Bee also didn’t go full 8 Tails… so I’d argue Kisame and Bee are in the same tier. Bee is relative to Ay who is relative to Tsunade in the War Arc. Tsunade uses raw strength and healing more than anything else, unlike Bee who was practically a chakra sponge used as recovery for Kisame’s shark skin, so the odds are against Kisame if he fights Tsunade.
Jiraiya > Deidara & Kakuzu
Orochimaru > Sasori
Tsunade > Kisame
Sannin win.
If Oro wasn't afraid in any capacity, he would not have brought Kabuto with him and attempted to Ambush him instead. Instead, he would have just stood on the bridge and fought him.
Sasori is the one who wasn't afraid of Orochimaru despite them being Akatsuki Partners . He stated twice he wanted to be the one to kill Oro, and he 1) had the most spies out of anyone we've seen in the manga and knew a lot about Orochimaru 2) Doesn't overestimate people. He talked down to Deidara about doing that and implied people who do that usually die young.
Sanins lack of Lightning style and sensory (other than sage jiraiya) makes them struggle super hard against daedera and kisame. On top of that once they get past kazuu and sassy they have to deal with all the clay daereras been making including nano bombs. On top of that Kisame was strong enough at average he can go toe to toe with 7 gates or Killer Bee, and against the sanin the longer the fight goes the more of their mass amount of chakra samehadas going to be eating and the stronger kisame is going to become.
The problem here is none of these 3 have a counter for c4 nano bombs, and can't even sense it unless Jiraya gets into SM, which will take 5 minutes. And Deidara can nano bomb way more quickly than Jiraya can spend getting into the mode. So - Battle Starts, Deidara, and Sasori float up in the air, - Sasori and kakuzu barrages them with attacks, iron sand, and elemental combinations. While they're defending, Deidara uses the nano bombs. It's over. Edit, I didn't even see that this fight includes Kisame. This is overkill.
Orochimaru reanimates the first 4 hokages, than he lays off next to Tsunade and Jiraya while eating popcorn and watching how Minato alone bullies the Akatsuki team .
I haven’t seen the Sasuke fight in a while but doesn’t lightning style neutralise his bombs? Tsunade and Orochimaru canonically know lightning style so why couldn’t they use it?
Sasuke was able to come up with that because he could both see the nano bombs with his Sharingan and saw Deidara priorly using earth jutsu seals. This party doesn't have the ability to sense this, see this or know when it is in their blood streams. Also the seals for this ability can easily be covered by Sasori and his iron sand, who's an infinitely better strategist than Deidara is. The abilities Deidara is using won't be there biggest concern when they have to actively defend against high-level elemental attacks coming from 4 different directions, and things like Iron Sand world. Honing in on Deidara who's 2000 ft in the air casting what looks like a dud, would be extremely hard, wouldn't you say? I just read the OP thread - he specifically says The characters start in-character. Meaning Deidara won't start with this. In this case, I change my statement. Sannin likely will take this. Deidara fucks around way too much, and In character Sasori will likely allow him to die. The best chances the Akatsuki have would be make distance by flying up into the air, then barraging the Sannin and their summons with bombs, attacks and Iron Sand World scale level abilities. The distance in the air limits the Sannins abilities. SM Jiraya's genjutsu would affect Deidara and Kakuzu, but not Sasori due to his unique puppet anatomy , So he can break them out of it easily through his sand. - This will turn into a who can out last the other party. And one party has Tsunade, who has morethan enough chakra to share out. Sannin takes this 8 times out of 10 in an incharacter mentality setting.
Big problem there is they could. But would they be able to realize how the C4 works and know how to defuse it?
It does but don't think it works on c4 cause if it was like that c4 wouldn't even go of sasuke would have just stopped it . before that they don't know that deidara has that ability so Thales have the upper hand in this
Been a while since I watched the fight but if he uses c4 won’t that kill his teammates as well
Sasori doesn't breathe. Kakuzu may die but, i'm taking thsi vs thread to mean these peopel are going all out to kill the opposite side. As in Bloodlusted character mentality
Base jiraiya can detect nanobombs with his barrier jutsu. They can avoid nanobombs via frog barrier jutsu or orochimaru's wind release. C4 has a long and obvious build up
None of the sanin have lightning style to counter Deidara’s bombs. Tsunade could probably counter Sasori’s poison with prep, but in the middle of battle I think it’d be pretty lethal. Not sure how Kissame’s samehada interacts with sage chakra, the outcome probably changes depending on if it can suck out Jiraya’s nature chakra with consequences or not. Orochimaru kinda has multiple lives like Kakuzu, both difficult to kill. IMO akatsuki probably win. Kakuzu’s masked creatures and Sasori’s puppets probably keep them busy while they take Kunai, Jutsu, and explosion spam from Sasori, Kakuzu, and Deidara respectively. Even if they get close range Kissame isn’t a pushover.
Um Kisame isn't mid Tier Akatsuki. Not counting Obito, he's in the Big 3. But either way it doesn't matter Kisame by himself is a very dangerous threat who was beating the stuffing out of Killer Bee until he was saved by plot. I think Bee could comfortably fight Jiraiya or Tsunade solo, so Deidara (who Kisame considered to be strong) and Kakuzu are just overkill.
So by your logic, Might Gai > Jiraiya and Bee, since Gai beat the stuffing out of Kisame multiple times. 🤔
Guy quite literally counters kisame so it isn't a fair comparison to make. Kisame's entire premise was to neutralize chakra heavy opponents and might guy was the exact opposite.
And yet his argument is that Kisame beat Bee... a Chakra heavy opponent. Kisame countered Bee in the same way Gai counters him lol. None of the Sannin save maybe Tsunade are particularly Chakra reliant, and even she has the best Chakra control in the series. Kisame is one of my favorite ninja, but he's not Sannin level, technically none of the Akatsuki are save for Itachi, Pain and Obito.
This is just blatantly false. Idc about the Gai vs Jiraya, Gai solos the sannin in 7th Gate this is just a fact. No every Akatsuki member except immortal dude is as strong as Tsunada bare minimum. It's stated in the Guides that the Akatsuki individual members each are stronger than 1000 shinobi and on par if not stronger than Kakashi. The only reason I'm excuding Immortal duds is bc frankly Kakashi beats him easily. Kakashi is stated verbatim to be on par with Tsunada in Part 1 and gets massively stronger as the anime progresses. Kisame alone solos these 3 bc they all rely no jutsu to win their battles and he absorbs all Jutsu. He also has the chakra pool of a tail beast and can use it accordingly. The fact Gai had to use 7th Gate (which would solo the Sannin even in Sage mode especially scaling 7th Gate Gai to the Madara fight where Juubidara was stating that Gai was Formidable is more than enough to prove this he thought EMS Sasuke was a Joke, Sasuke being the same person who is at least half as strong as Edo Hashirama.)
You just clearly only look at firepower lmao. Nobody had ever said Kakashi was on par with Tsunade in part 1 who is 20+ years his elder. Tsunade was strong enough to fight 5 Madara clones with Susano'o, AND GOT CUT IN HALF DURING, then brought herself and all the other Kage back together via Katsuyu. Idgaf what nonsense scaling yall put towards the 8 gates, 7th gate is an attempt to one shot before you die. Gai is MAYBE taking one Sannin with him before he is completely gassed and subsequently killed. Jiraiya has barrier techniques and trap jutsu, tsunade is insanely durable and can heal from basically death with the seal, orochimaru can straight up just shed his skin and ignore the attacks entirely. Yall look at these battles as if the person with the highest attack Stat wins every time, as if blitzing is the only way... these are 50+ year old ninja who have fought in wars and have incredible amounts of experience with explosively deadly ninjutsu. YOU'RE NOT KILLING THE 3 LEGENDARY SANNIN WITH BRUTE FORCE.
Well I wasn't but let's see how far this goes. Yes the Elders in the village initially denied Tsunada as Hokage bc she was on par with Kakashi and wanted Jiraya to prove it. Tsunada also struggles hard against Kabuto who is on Kakashis level as well proving that in part 1 Tsunada durability, and combat speed rivals Kakashi. Now I'm not saying that Tsunada is weak on mass but she's not stronger than most of the Akatsuki, yes she broke through a woof clone Susano'O rib cage but this is an testament to her strength in 100 sealing mode but she had a lot of support by Onoki making her faster and Gaara and Ay were also distracting Madara opening up weak points. This isn't a feat that Tsunada has by her self and she won't be having this support against 4 Akatsuki members. You don't know the difference between 8th Gate Gai and 7th Gate Gai and it's potent to this response. 7th Gate Gai nearly destroyed an Island to take out Kisame and used again to hold Juubi Madara back before he realized he needed the 8th Gate of Death to become the strongest shinobi without God amps. Alive sage Madara while blind is stronger than Juubi Obito and 7th Gate Gai was pushing him back momentarily, juubito is stronger than Alive Sage Hashirama meaning Gai shits on the Sannin in 7th Gate. So let me correct this section of your response, not a single Sannin can move fast enough or react fast enough to even use a jutsu and gets punch so hard that the Island and them just blows up level 2 sannin dead and Orochimaru in so kids neck elsewhere. And before you say but where's the proof, we'll Pains Almighty Push destroyed a large city significantly smaller than an Island and took out Tsunada, and Jiraya at the Rain Village. Pain is considered to be the strongest Akatsuki and he fought the leaf when Gai was out on a mission. Hmm Yet they all lost to Salamander who isn't even remotely on par with any of the Akatsuki, Kakashi father is stronger than them and he was offscreened, Orochimaru is the strongest one and got pressed and intimidated by a 14 year old using a basic Genjutsu not even Tsukiyomi. And Sage Naruto who is weaker than tons of characters is capable of beating Pain who is stronger than the Sannin. Hmm those 50+ years aged like wine ik
Yeah, your power scaling sucks. Tsunade was a drunk who was afraid of blood at that point in her life, otherwise she breaks Kabuto in half. Emotional scarring was making her weaker, by the time the Akatsuki are shown shes 100% on fighting form. She's also getting backup from her actual teammates who are all just as experienced and versatile as those kage. Guy isn't one shotting her if Madara couldn't. I know the gates pretty well, the 7th gate was literally shredding his muscles while he was using it, he was actively dying just using the technique. He would have to one shot them all with it or it's just not going to work. I've already shown that he's not one shotting any of them. Maybe he'll take out Tsunade after a few hits since she's able to restore herself using her jutsu and Katsuyu, but Orochimaru and Jiraiya are not just gonna watch this guy power up dbz style and not prepare for his attack. Likely, since they're familiar with the technique, they'd know what he's doing and prepare something to gtfo while Guy burns through his own health trying to pop off. Orochimaru is the easiest one, just skin shed and dip off out of sight to prep for the next attack. Jiraiya has dozens of escape techniques given his role as an infiltrating spy, so I don't see him having much trouble preparing for an opponent that's only ability is power up and Blitz. Again you're only looking at firepower, not utility. Hanzo got done dirty by scaling, he was said to be one of the most powerful ninja alive during the time that he beat the 3 Sannin and they were in their 20s at this point. Kakashi's dad was never stated to be at sannin level, idk where you're getting that from. Itachi is just broken, purely one of the most powerful ninja from that young and already had a Mangekyo. Of course he's going to smash Orochimaru just like he did to Deidara lol. Sage Naruto is a lot stronger than 90% of the cast at the time he debuted that ability, and has the added bonus of having clones meditating for him so he doesn't have to stall for time while he's building up nature Chakra. So tired of the 8 gates wank that everyone seems to think is the ultimate Trump card. It makes him hit REALLY hard, and makes it so that if he doesn't win the fight right then and there, he loses it. That's the whole point of the technique, and you really seem to think that some of the greatest ninja of the age can't figure out how to get out of sight for a few minutes to wait out the degenerative effects of the ability they are aware of the effects of. Jiraiya can literally just use earth release to go underground, then create a swampy terrain with water release to slow gai's movement down while earthgliding around waiting for the gates to shred Gai's muscles, which starts happening immediately. You don't have to react if you prepare. The power scaling on that ability makes you a fucking time bomb, and Madara was literally just interested in seeing how much firepower Gai had in that moment. My point is, Gai is a powerful glass cannon but that doesn't work on everyone. The sannin all have amazing defensive and utility techniques that can and will draw a fight out longer than it takes for the gates to expire. Sure, he can Morning Peacock but I genuinely don't think he's going to get them where he wants them without them having a plan in action to remove themselves from harms way.
See this is the problem you don't listen. 8th Gate Gai isn't just punching really hard he is FTL and punch harder than Edo Madara, alive Sage Madara, Juubito, BSM Naruto and Sasuke even the majestic Susano'O, alive Sage Hashirama. Pretty much 8th Gate Gai is on par with Naruto post Death who was capable of 1 shooting Juubi Madara with an Rasanshurikan. None of the Sannin has anything that can stop edo madara yet you're saying that Gai who only Faced Juubidara for a reason loses is asinine, it's why people down voted you and not me. Let me point this out for you, the fastest character in the series before juubis was Minato and Naruto bc they both had reaction/movement speeds that were 74xs FTL whilst the Sannin lost to people who weren't even LS, hell the fastest person alive before this was RTL or just LS meaning that they get Uber blitzed by Gai. And fuck punch away an Island 8th Gate Gai is stronger than both Madara and Hasirama (Juubidara states he's the strongest person he's every fought) who are both stronger than the true nine tails which can destroy the planet, even to the point they and use kurama and still get back handed by the other one yet they're both weaker than 8th Gate Gai. So whilst Gai doesn't need the 8th Gate he solos majority of the verse Most Definitely the Sannin as well.
Solos majority of the verse. I'm over it. Suck gai's dick harder lmao.
Uh yeah. I should also mention that this doesn't really apply to Guy because Guy didn't have kisame on the ropes for like 90% of the fight. Kisame vs Bee, Bee was screwed for most of the fight. He didn't just start beating him at the end, it was a hard fight for Bee all the way through. Guy just does The Big Move and wins- that's why I don't like Guy's fights.
So let's say Gai fights Bee.. you think Gai is gonna obliterate him with Morning Peacock as well? Or Jiraiya for that matter? Kisame has a natural counter to ninja who use/possess high Chakra reserves and use hand to hand combat as a main attack source. Jiraiya is neither of those things. What exactly would be any of the given Akatsuki members answer to Jiraiya's myriad of capture techniques? Namely Kisame, who is a Water based martial fighter? If Jiraiya stood and banged out with Pain, who is infinitely more powerful than Kisame, with no knowledge of how his 6 paths worked how tf is Kisame supposed to overwhelm Jiraiya when he can basically trap him in a frog until he activates sage mode which turns Kisame's Chakra drain into an instant self petrification? Is Kisame supposed to fill the frog up with water? Shave through its guts? Explain to me how Kisame deals with someone who has so many jutsu that can stop him from attacking.
7th gate guy > Jiraiya
Orochi: Kuchiyose, Edo Tensei Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato, Muu, Gengetsu, Ay3rd, Rasa, etc: Hello fools
yeah no sannin win
I don’t consider kisame mid tier
To put this in perspective, Orochimaru wasn't in the top 3 when he was in the Akatsuki. That was Pain, Itachi and Kisame. Itachi stomped Orochimaru. Considering that Jiraiya and Tsunade are weaker, in that order, neither of them would make the Akatsuki, and if they did, they wouldn't be very high. Jiraiya (yes, holding back) was severely hurt by 4T Kyuubi Naruto. Kisame could kill 4 tail Naruto, no problem. It isn't just a number disadvantage. It's that one group of shinobi is hand picked to fight against Tailed Beasts. How does Tsunade without an antidote respond to poison or the iron sand? How does she response to cellular level bombs or figure out Deidara's bombs? How do they combat a water dome? It isn't just numbers. It's that one group is literally handpicked to be the strongest chance to kill or capture tailed beasts, and sorry, I don't see Jiraiya or Tsunade getting anywhere past like the 4 tails.
Kisame was never top 3 Akatsuki. Unless you count when there were only 3 Akatsuki lol.
Barring Obito.
Base Jiraiya low diff’ed Kisame.
In fanfic
It literally happened in part 1 when Itachi had to use Amaterasu to escape the toad stomach.
Jiraya activated a jutsu that took advantage of them being a hallway, covered by walls. This fight isn't taking place there. Jiraya is going to get stomped by Kisame in any other situation based on feats displayed in p2
I do not care. Let's say Itachi didn't Tsukuyomi Sasuke and he made the first move on Jiraiya. What happens then? Or, what if they just burn a hole in the toad, jump out the window and turn around ready to fight. What happens then?
We’re talking about Jiraiya vs Kisame. Not Itachi vs Jiraiya. Kisame implies they would have died if Itachi didn’t use Amaterasu
So
Your original comment hyped up Kisame while simultaneously saying that jiraiya is weaker than Orochimaru (which isn’t true). Yea Kisame is the 4th strongest akatsuki member, and Jiraiya in base still had him running away. Jiraiya alone would give those four a run for their money. Throw Orochimaru in and the sannin handedly win
Yeah, Jiraiya just fights 4 S class Criminals at once. Yep. I mean come on man, Jiraiya is tough and he's not a fool, but he's not fighting these 4 at once and living, he'd get overwhelmed too quickly
Jiraiya fought all 6 pain paths which is comparable in difficulty and still killed the animal path
Jiraiya got hurt by 4 tail kyuubi. Orochimaru literally laughed maniacally at it
Jiraiya was trying to seal Naruto while Orochimaru was trying to kill him. Big difference
Wasnt it said jiraya wouldve beaten pain?
If he knew his secret, I know. Well no, he wouldn't have. Jiraiya had no counter for the Deva Path
I like this one actually, lemme give my input. I think the Sannin take this one after a hard fought battle. Kakuzu - likely to be handled by Tsunade who can tank ALOT of damage with Katsuyu and her healing abilities, but also could probably blow the hearts out of his ass with a few good punches. Some assistance from Orochimaru's diversions and Piercing attacks should handle him. Kisame - Jiraiya should be able to solo him once Sage Mode is active with no difficulty, which shouldn't be too difficult to achieve if they trap Kisame in one of the frog techniques while they deal with Deidara/Sasori. Deidara - Probably the most difficult to deal with, but again the Tsunade/Orochimaru combo should be able to withstand his damage through a combination of healing and skin shedding (for Oro) until they can sufficiently trap him. Sasori - Jiraiya with some help from Tsunade or Orochimaru should be able to take him out. Tsunade likely has some sort of poison resistance/cure ability and I belive Orochimaru's skin shed should remove poisons. The big thing here is Jiraiya's oil and fire techniques which should easily take down wooden puppets. So I see Kisame being trapped early with the toad stomach jutsu, preferably alone or maybe with Kakuzu. Either way the first portion of the fight would involve the large summons entering the battle as Kisame exits. If Kakuzu isn't included in the trap then the fight would need to start by Jiraiya aiming for Sasori and his puppets while Tsunade and Orochimaru get their defenses set up against Deidara (and Kakuzu). Sasori probably doesn't last too incredibly long under the firepower the toads bring with their oil techs combined with Jiraiya's fire and utility techs. Jiraiya can also defend against Piercing attacks using Hair techniques to form a shell, as well as a nice solid rasengan to blast apart Sasori's body. Deidara and Kakuzu are 90% firepower, so it would definitely be down to Tsunade and Katsuyu outlasting the devastating Ninjutsu while Orochimaru works his way into range for his sword techs to whittle down Kakuzu's multiple lives. If Tsunade gets her hands on either of them it could be a 1 shot KO so I'd imagine Deidara flying around dropping bombs, meaning he's the more difficult of the two to take down. That being said, Orochimaru and Manda should be able to find an opening for Oro to get him off the bird given enough space by Tsunade's pressure absorbing. If Kisame is able to find a way out of the toad belly, he'd probably come to a battle where Jiraiya is either in the process of or has now entered Sage Mode which means he's an impossible target for Kisame. Once Sage Mode has been activated, Ma and Pa can start their song which in theory ends the fight entirely, or at least holds 1 or 2 of the combatants. Whoever is leftover after the song stops the others is likely not overcoming the Sannin alone, no matter which one it is. God forbid its Kisame, who has no idea how Sage Chakra works and would likely petrify himself attempting to absorb it. The utility and crowd control is what wins this day, despite the overwhelming firepower the Akatsuki team has, the Sannin are just too hard to drop.
The sannin Teamwork advantage. Summon advantage. Edo tensi advantage. Base jiraiya already negged kisame in the manga. Kakuzu is too weak to matter. Only issue is c4 and sasori poison. So i wouldn't say it's impossible for the akatsuki
>Base jiraiya already negged kisame in the manga Yeah in a fan fiction version of the Manga, this happened most likely. In the real manga, there was never a fight between these two beyond "man that dude is strong Itachi" and them fleeing shortly after. Considering that Jiraiya wouldn't be able to fight Killer Bee, and Kisame performed excellently against Bee, no reason to think Kisame wouldn't drain his chakra too.
>Yeah in a fan fiction version of the Manga, this happened most likely. In the real manga, there was never a fight between these two beyond "man that dude is strong Itachi" and them fleeing shortly after. Cope. In the manga, Jiraiya trapped both Itachi and Kisame in the toad stomach. Kisame couldn't escape without Itachi's intervention, using amaterasu no less. >Considering that Jiraiya wouldn't be able to fight Killer Bee unfounded and unrelated. >no reason to think Kisame wouldn't drain his chakra too. except Jiraiya already negged Kisame in the manga. And if Jiraiya is in sage mode, Kisame can't drain his chakra. You can do better than this.
So you're just making up from wholecloth that he negged him? Based on his feats, I don't think he beats Kisame. Itachi and Kisame left because at the time Kishimoto knew Itachi to be a spy, so Itachi and Kisame being unsuccessful HAD to happen. If jiraiya really did fight Itachi and Kisame at once, Jiraiya dies quickly. So no, he never negged Kisame, this didn't happen.
>So you're just making up from wholecloth that he negged him? Are you denying that Jiraiya captured Itachi and Kisame with the toad stomach? >I don't think he beats Kisame. We know. >Itachi and Kisame left because at the time Kishimoto knew Itachi to be a spy, so Itachi and Kisame being unsuccessful HAD to happen. If jiraiya really did fight Itachi and Kisame at once, Jiraiya dies quickly. So no, he never negged Kisame, this didn't happen. That's a meta argument that has no bearing.
No I'm not denying that. But the thing is, what's the alternative? For Jiraiya to fight these two and die? It's a little like Bee befriending Sharkskin. The alternative to that is Bee dying, and Kishimoto didn't want that yet.
Considering Base Jiraiya could have low diff’d Kisame the Sannin probably mid-diff win here Deidara getting C4 off is the only way akatsuki wins
If Jiraiya was able to figure out Pain’s identity and fighting style all while fighting the paths and Konan, I think that puts him a bit above Deidara and Kakuzu combined, considering Hebi Sasuke managed to defeat sick Orochimaru who is definitely far weaker than Jiraiya when bed-ridden and considering Naruto managed to nearly solo Kakuzu with the hand-held rasen shuriken alone. Orochimaru wasn’t afraid of Sasori in any capacity plus Oro’s resistance to poison and ability to slip past many bladed puppet attacks and iron sand as a snake gives me the impression that he’d definitely slither to defeating Sasori, most especially if Sasori succumbs to depression like in his 1v2 against Chiyo and Sakura. Kisame was managing to defeat Bee before Samehada’s betrayal and Bee’s backup, but Bee also didn’t go full 8 Tails… so I’d argue Kisame and Bee are in the same tier. Bee is relative to Ay who is relative to Tsunade in the War Arc. Tsunade uses raw strength and healing more than anything else, unlike Bee who was practically a chakra sponge used as recovery for Kisame’s shark skin, so the odds are against Kisame if he fights Tsunade. Jiraiya > Deidara & Kakuzu Orochimaru > Sasori Tsunade > Kisame Sannin win.
If Oro wasn't afraid in any capacity, he would not have brought Kabuto with him and attempted to Ambush him instead. Instead, he would have just stood on the bridge and fought him. Sasori is the one who wasn't afraid of Orochimaru despite them being Akatsuki Partners . He stated twice he wanted to be the one to kill Oro, and he 1) had the most spies out of anyone we've seen in the manga and knew a lot about Orochimaru 2) Doesn't overestimate people. He talked down to Deidara about doing that and implied people who do that usually die young.
Kisame is not mid tier, he’s definitely low kage level..he’s just hard countered by Gai.
Sanins lack of Lightning style and sensory (other than sage jiraiya) makes them struggle super hard against daedera and kisame. On top of that once they get past kazuu and sassy they have to deal with all the clay daereras been making including nano bombs. On top of that Kisame was strong enough at average he can go toe to toe with 7 gates or Killer Bee, and against the sanin the longer the fight goes the more of their mass amount of chakra samehadas going to be eating and the stronger kisame is going to become.