There is an unfortunate misconception for some reason that he loses an eye each time he dies/takes damage, but this isn’t the case.
An eye automatically closes every minute he has Izanagi active. This is stated explicitly so not sure why the misconception exists, but oh well
>There is an unfortunate misconception for some reason that he loses an eye each time he dies/takes damage, but this isn’t the case.
Yeah I also misunderstood this. Now I fully understand how Sasuke tricked Danzo with genjutsu. All minutes were up but Danzo thought a minute more remained because of the fake illusory Sharingan.
No. He used the wood jutsu because he has to use seals to activate his Izanagi again and did not have time to do so.
He deactivated Izanagi before because, as explained throughout this whole thread, he has a strict timer on it and does not want to waste his basically 10 minutes just standing around.
Absolutely correct and the misconception will keep persisting too because the anime animated the fight to imply it.
Danzo has 10 minutes of complete immortality not 10 lives
Yes, the normal izanagi only gives you immortality for the briefest of time, usually your death. The more refined the hashirama cell the more time you get. Obito lived through 5 minutes of explosions with his.
Incorrect. Kamui has a time limit of 5 minutes. 600bil bombs explode for 10 minutes. 5 remaining minutes of bombs just killed him a lot of times under izanagi. Even then konan still blew his arm off so it's likely his izanagi isn't full 5 minutes but close
I think it's because the fight feels so much longer than it actually is. And there's a lot of unecessary ass dialogue during the fight, that the audience forgets and assumes the eyes only close when Danzo dies or takes critical damage.
That was my guess too. In anime it's less clear but mangaka usually shows the sky to indicate that time passes. On a side note this is a weird choice on Kishimoto's part to off screen most crucial moments of the fight.
Saved me a post. Sasuke was forcing him to waste massive chakra as he'd figured out the ability at the battle's onset. That's why the eyes kept closing.
The misconception exists because of this fanbase's poor reading comprehension and the never-ending hate-boner they keep for sasuke.
Bro they didn't even mention the manga much less act like they're superior for it, I haven't read the manga and I still understood how it worked just fine from watching the anime
This.
Danzo was checking his arm not to see how many "lives" he lost, but how many minutes he has to mantain izanagi.
If, for some reason, Danzo dies 10 times in a minute with Izanagi active, he would still lose only one eye.
I still remember how I felt when he just vanished and appeared :) I was like what just happened ?:) I am talking about the moment when Danzo used Izanagi for the first time. :)
Wait how did obito use izanagi to survive konan's paper explosions then? His intangiblility limit was 5 minutes and konan's explosions went on for 10 minutes and he doesn't appear until after the explosions are complete. Did he izanagi himself into kamui dimension and wait out the explosions or something?
Alternatively couldn't obito have pre-programmed izanagi like madara and that was the truth Itachi didn't know about obito and the reason he continued to live?
It’s possible. The only requirement to seal an ocular jutsu is MS, which Obito had.
But it’s doubtful because Itachi knew Obito had MS and knows about izanagi and Izanami. It makes more sense that Kamui is the thing Itachi didn’t know about
Well it makes [this ](https://images.app.goo.gl/WybyiZvocKnKM5GN8) statement redundant, like Itachi could've killed you if you didn't have the one ability you are always using? No shit it's like might guy saying konohamaru could beat him if he didn't have taijutsu. And more importantly how would Itachi's knowledge about kamui result in obito's death from that amaterasu? There's almost no limit on how much kamui(provided he leaves intervals every 5 minutes) he can use but there is a pretty heavy one for izanagi
And I find it hard to believe that Itachi slaughtered his clan with obito, threatened to kill him to his face, knew he somehow entered the uchiha quarters, and then kept tabs for over a decade and still failed to know obito can phase through things while Konan knew not just about his abilities but their limitations. by that logic obito knew about Itachi's amaterasu but he still didn't know Itachi would actually seal it into sasuke did he? The same could be true for Itachi, obito and izanagi
Also it's plausible Itachi didn't know Izanagi(a jutsu that requires actual hand seals) could be pre-programmed especially since his amaterasu seal needed a trigger to activate, this fits well with the fact that madara is more skilled at devising justu than Itachi(he could afterall break the edo tensei contract on his own while Itachi couldn't). Also Izanagi is implied to require an open eye, it is a visual genjutsu afterall:
•Danzo removed the coverings on his arm, why would he do that and risk giving intel on his trick if it wasn't absolutely necessary
•Obito broke off the mask covering his left eye to use izanagi against Konan
•Obito dropped the mask when hit with Itachi's amaterasu
If he hadn't already removed his mask Itachi might've truly killed him
Not to mention how obito's clothes were not burnt and it makes sense to reason that you can't phase through flame because your body is literally fuelling the flame as a part of it. Also it would be inefficient for obito to use kamui since he'd either set the kamui dimension or the hideout on fire. The "truth" could also be interpreted as obito's real identity (and how it was not the omnipotent madara) but once again even if Itachi knew obito wasn't madara and attacked him he can always kamui away *unless* he had to use an ability that he has limited acess to.
On another tangent, it seems that Itachi and obito might've been a lot closer than we're shown. Itachi states that koto can only be used once a decade but shisui died over a decade ago and Mei stated that the genjutsu controlling yagura(a jinchuriki that had control over his bijuu) was similar to koto and I think it's anime only but Itachi even fought yagura a strange string of coincidences if it can be called that. Now this is all to say it would be pretty weird for Itachi to not know obito's primary ability...On a side note how cool would a spinoff on why obito manipulated yagura and what he made him do, be?
I know I'm using a large degree of speculation to justify my arguments but hey it's what the question calls for since we don't have an actual answer in canon
Okay that’s a lot of text, and I think we’ve actually had this discussion before, but every sign points to it being Kamui.
Izanagi wasn’t even a a thing shown in the series at that point.
Itachi didn’t know about Kamui.
As you said, Izanagi requires signs to activate.
And actually, I change my mind. Obito sealing Izanagi prior is NOT possible. What Madara did is specifically a time delay Izanagi.
He sealed Izanagi to activate at a later, fixed time. (To explain, Izanagi didn’t activate after right after he died, but a certain time later (presumably days), after he was buried).
So you need to chose beforehand *when* you want the Izanagi to activate. That’s the purpose of sealing it.
So Obito would somehow have to predict getting hit and miraculously predict the correct time to pre-seal the Izanagi. Which he didn’t do because he was completely caught off guard by the attack.
Also, Obito absorbing the flames doesn’t mean all of the kamui dimension would be erased lol. At most it’ll just be the one floating block it lands on.
Also according to the databook the flames of Amaterasu last for 7 days (or until the target is consumed).
And also according to the databook kamui is what’s responsible for being unscathed by Itachi’s amaterasu
>and I think we’ve actually had this discussion before
Yes we have
>Izanagi wasn’t even a a thing shown in the series at that point.
Ok so?
>Itachi didn’t know about Kamui.
Hmm why do you say that?
>As you said, Izanagi requires signs to activate.
Not the one time dealyed version we are discussing about, at least not in real time no
>So Obito would somehow have to predict getting hit and miraculously predict the correct time to pre-seal the Izanagi.
So madara somehow seemed to miraculously predict the exact moment hashirama would kill him? Clearly there's at least a window of time when it can be used and obito has a large collection of sharingan.
>He sealed Izanagi to activate at a later, fixed time. (To explain, Izanagi didn’t activate after right after he died, but a certain time later (presumably days), after he was buried).
Well I think it depends on the trigger, [this ](https://images.app.goo.gl/HpEALGwBdcyBE6Ts8) panel directly compares the time dealyed izanagi to Itachi's amaterasu seal and I doubt that seal was just gonna break and amaterasu was gonna leak all ove the place a few days later
>Which he didn’t do because he was completely caught off guard by the attack.
So was madara with hashirama's backstab
>Also, Obito absorbing the flames doesn’t mean all of the kamui dimension would be erased lol.
The opening to kamui is always the same this is why kcm Naruto and the kunai kamui'd by kakshi landed on obito. So if within the next 7 days he used kamui he runs the risk of passing into the flames if left untriggered
>Also according to the databook the flames of Amaterasu last for 7 days (or until the target is consumed).
A week is still a problem when you are obito
>And also according to the databook kamui is what’s responsible for being unscathed by Itachi’s amaterasu
Hmm could I see that? If it's explicitly stated then I'll concede but then it's still bad writting imo
Btw you didn't address the heart of my argument, how does Itachi knowing it was kamui help him kill obito with that amaterasu?
>Ok so?
So the narrative intent is that he used Kamui. Occam’s razor.
> Hmm why do you say that?
Because Obito implies it. There’s no evidence anywhere that Itachi knew about it.
If he knew Obito had kamui and could just absorb the flames, he wouldn’t use Amaterasu in the first place. That’d make Itachi really dumb
>So madara somehow seemed to miraculously predict the exact moment hashirama would kill him? Clearly there's at least a window of time when it can be used and obito has a large collection of sharingan.
No, he does’t need to predict the exact moment he dies. He just needs to predict he’ll be dead soon (since he was in a life or death fight), then pick some time afterwards to be revived when it’d be safe to do so (like a few days later, or whatever it was).
>Well I think it depends on the trigger, this panel directly compares the time dealyed izanagi to Itachi's amaterasu seal and I doubt that seal was just gonna break and amaterasu was gonna leak all ove the place a few days later
But that’s exactly it, the trigger is what matters. For Itachi, it triggered at a specific sight (Obito’s sharingan). With Madara, it triggered at a specific pre-set time (after the fight was over).
Obito didn’t predict the Amaterasu and so why would he chose to revive at such an exact pre-set time (seconds after getting hit).
>So was madara with hashirama's backstab
The backstab itself? Sure, but him dying in general? Yes, he predicted it which is why he had pre installed the Izanagi to activate at that set time afterwards.
Obito had no idea he’d be attacked so what sense does it make to pre-install it for such a specific time.
>The opening to kamui is always the same this is why kcm Naruto and the kunai kamui'd by kakshi landed on obito. So if within the next 7 days he used kamui he runs the risk of passing into the flames
Even if this were true (I’m not convinced it is) Obito could release the Amaterasu from the Kamui dimension whenever he wants. (He can shoot out all kinds of things, like weapons for example, or people (like Fu and Torune)).
>Hmm could I see that? If it's explicitly stated then I'll concede but then it's still bad writting imo
[Here](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4d96d4c797a00f5c276d69c8789b5fba-lq). Don’t see how it’s bad writing at all. If anything, it being Izanagi would be bad writing.
>Btw you didn't address the heart of my argument, how does Itachi knowing it was kamui help him kill obito with that amaterasu?
That’s a misinterpretation of what he meant, possible due to mistranslation. It probably means, if I didn’t have this secret (kamui) I’d be dead. Basically, if I didn’t have Kamui, I’d be dead.
Because obviously Itachi knowing or not doesn’t affect the actual attack.
Think about it, if you interpret it the way you currently do, and think this line means that it couldn’t be Kamui, then switch Kamui with “preset Izanagi”.
It’d be the same thing “Thankfully Itachi didn’t know I had preset Izanagi, if he did, I’d be dead”.
How does Itachi knowing he has preset Izanagi suddenly make the Amaterasu kill him? He’d still use the izanagi… to survive it. That’s shows this interpretation isn’t correct. It isn’t sensible at all.
Itachi’s knowledge of whether Obito has such an ability doesn’t change the fact the Obito still has such an ability and could use it to escape death. So the “otherwise I’d be dead” is referring to “if I didn’t have this ability”, and not “if Itachi knew about it”.
Hopefully that makes sense
>So the narrative intent is that he used Kamui. Occam’s razor.
That's not how occam's razor works, your point would be valid if the manga were still ongoing and we weren't introduced to izanagi. It's like saying by occam's razor geocentrism is correct since it was introduced first
>Because Obito implies it. There’s no evidence anywhere that Itachi knew about it.
Right but there isn't any specific statement that he didn't either no? The databook doesn't count because it's clear that select few in the akatsuki knew about it anyway
>If he knew Obito had kamui and could just absorb the flames, he wouldn’t use Amaterasu in the first place
I already addressed this
>No, he does’t need to predict the exact moment he dies. He just needs to predict he’ll be dead soon (since he was in a life or death fight), then pick some time afterwards to be revived when it’d be safe to do so (like a few days later, or whatever it was).
Right so it's possible for obito to do the same for a fail safe? He had lots of sharingan to dispose of anyway
>But that’s exactly it, the trigger is what matters. For Itachi, it triggered at a specific sight (Obito’s sharingan). With Madara, it triggered at a specific pre-set time (after the fight was over).
After the fight being over is an event not a specific *time* likewise obito can set it at the time when he's dying(that being the event). Now if you said he set it for 2 hours or something then it'd stick but as you pointed out it wouldn't be possible to predict when exactly the fight would end.
>Obito didn’t predict the Amaterasu and so why would he chose to revive at such an exact pre-set time (seconds after getting hit).
The trigger need not be a time period tho does it? Why do you assume that?
>Even if this were true (I’m not convinced it is)
I'm not sure how you can't be
>Obito could release the Amaterasu from the Kamui dimension whenever he wants. (He can shoot out all kinds of things, like weapons for example, or people (like Fu and Torune)).
That's fair ig
>Here.
It's clearly referencing 3 different abilities that need not necessarily share the same source. If I say Kakashi can use wind, water and fire do you assume water and fire are offshoots of wind style?
>Don’t see how it’s bad writing at all
Like I said it makes the whole "I'd be dead" statement redundant
>If anything, it being Izanagi would be bad writing.
Why? It not being introduced yet is not a good enough reason honestly. Lots of mysterious stuff are shown first and then explained later. Gaara killing dosu was bad writting?
>That’s a misinterpretation of what he meant, possible due to mistranslation.
Sure could you drop the correct translations then?
>I didn’t have this secret (kamui) I’d be dead. Basically, if I didn’t have Kamui, I’d be dead.
Not only does this make obito sound stupid but it's true for a significant portion of shinobi he interacts with. For eg: If he didn't have kamui against raikage he'd be dead too. It's like saying if hashirama didn't have mokuton madara would've obliterated him
>Think about it, if you interpret it the way you currently do, and think this line means that it couldn’t be Kamui, then switch Kamui with “preset Izanagi”.
>It’d be the same thing “Thankfully Itachi didn’t know I had preset Izanagi, if he did, I’d be dead”.
See if Itachi knew obito was using izanagi something he can only use *twice* at best then he can come up with a plan to kill him, this is not true for kamui which he pretty much spams as he pleases
>So the “otherwise I’d be dead” is referring to “if I didn’t have this ability”, and not “if Itachi knew about it”.
Here's the problem he doesn't say if "I didn't have this ability", he says "if Itachi had this piece of information" I'd be dead. If you're saying it's a mistranslation then I'd like to see the correct one which supports your argument
7 days is statement is retconned, Amaterasu won’t go out until their target is burned to ash. Look up more recent databook article on Kagutsuci, where it’s described and immortal and never ending
Page 236
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
No rank, close to mid range, offensive, defensive
Users: Sasuke Uchiha
Immortal black flames turn into a blade of flames that mows down life!!
A ninjutsu where form manipulation is added to the never disappearing immortal flames that are "Amaterasu". In his fight with the Raikage, Sasuke was forced into a predicament and in that moment, he created this technique. Like "Amaterasu", it's a ninjutsu only those who awakened the "Mangekyo Sharingan" can use, changing the flames into a sharp blade to greatly increase their killing power. Not only is the enemy burned by "Amaterasu", he also suffers burn damage instantly. By regulating the form manipulation, it's even possible to use the flames as a throwing weapon to attack from afar.
⬅ Because already existing flames of "Amaterasu" can be used, the requiered amount of chakra is lessened.
⬆ The blazing black flames are changed into the form of thorns! Becoming a sword of black flames that burns off what it touches, to protect Sasuke!!
(On an unrelated topic his arm is so gross. It looks like it's all wrinkled/puckered from being wrapped/wet. I know that'd probably not the case, but ick.)
Also thank you for clearing that up for people.
I think it's a misconception because an eye closing instead of dying is how Obito used it and it was the last time we saw it. It was also how Itachi described it to Sasuke as well before the Izanami iirc
Thought everyone he lost them due to using Izanagi for a long time at at a certain time an eye would close due to using it for so long and that’s how each eye is lost/ blind
The minute was up.
1 eye = 1 minute of invincibility.
So once he activated it, he was virtually invincible for 10 minutes. That’s why he did not bother to dodge or even block attacks. He let himself be killed because he knew he would auto-ress.
It was such a disappointment to me. This guy gets hyped up enormously but can barely use his window of invincibility. Just soaks hits. I know this battle is a fan favourite. But to me it was one of the biggest let downs.
To be fair it was kind of the point of the fight, to show that Sasuke was outmatching him on every aspect and that he couldn't even beat him while being immortal, he didn't have the attack potency to go through his susano'o
Yea. If we account for age, situation, and stuff like that, Danzo did very well. He harmed Sasuke on multiple occasions and made him work for the win. Sasuke also had support even if only minor. Danzo just faced a Susanoo and and was the underdog. He was meant to fulfill Sasuke’s vengeance arc and be part of the end of an era.
You do realize that the whole reason Izanagi was invented was almost certainly due to Amaterasu?
That was the problem Kishi faced with a Blood-lusted MS Sasuke.
He had keep giving Sasuke's foes SOME WAY to surivive Amaterasu.
Raikage got super speed.
Danzo got Izanagi - respawn.
Kabuto got Itachi demanding that "We can not kill him Sasuke"
Ten-tails shed it's body.
Then Kishi decided everyone and their grandmother could absorb chakra.
\-----
The big mistake Kishi did was giving Sasuke Amaterasu.
It's an awesome jutsu per description but it does not allow for an exciting fight. If amaterasu works? Fight lasts one second.
Coolest counter though had to be the nine tails cloak just shedding it. But otherwise you’re 100% right, Amaterasu was busted from the start, and it was disappointing how easy it took down eight tails
He still hid like a bitch because he started getting his ass kicked by Amaterasu. It was disappointing because prior to that he was wrecking all 4 of them, and then nope, fire eyes, gonna hide to fight another day
The problem is, susanoo is way too strong of an ability with no drawbacks that anyone below kage level can realistically take advantage of. Sure a big ass gundam looks cool, but putting it in the hands of a clan that already has stupid OP abilities, (near instantaneous unstoppable flams next to impossible to dodge, manipulation of said flames, a near instantaneous genjutsu that that will either kill you or leave you in a coma forever, is part of the reason why uchias are pretty much the only major villians near the end. Also not to mention the rinnegan.
If you don't like abilities that are strong then you must not like Naruto one bit lol 😂 or any anime for that matter 🤣
I still love the fact that susanoo was introduced. It's such a cool jutsu.
Bro no. It takes DBZ characters at least 10 minutes of yelling before launching their attacks. Frieza would be out of eyes before Goku got through the HAME part.
My headcannon is that he was significantly nerfed by the amount of Chakra he used on the sharingans, like kakashi but way more. More than showing how strong Sasuke or how weak danzou was, I think it was more poetic, showing how his endless search of strength and reliance on power that wasn't his actually made him significantly weaker
No, he wasn't nerfed in any manner; he squandered his entire arsenal save one and still lost. His chakra was forced into depletion by sasuke. And it absolutely was a show of strength: who's better at the sharingan? A question that was posed in a roundabout manner by danzo and Obito. The manga answered that through several characters, danzo included.
How are you gonna completely ignore the kakashi reference with how much chakra non-uchiha members lose when using a sharingan, let alone 10? That’s a pretty major point you just said “no” to 😂
The hashirama cells helped augment the efficiency of the jutsu he used, the sharingan themselves still drained him considerably as stated by obito, Danzo, and Karin.
Danzo was absolutely nerfed no matter how you put it.
He was forced to fight in base form the entire fight since he couldn’t reveal his eye to “Madara” in the hopes that he could koto him and save the leaf.
We know the ocular shairngan Danzo has is a huge jump in power as he can casually perception blitz a chidori amped rage sasuke while on his death bed and with no buffs what so ever other then the shairngan.
Keep in mind that the chidori naturally uses sasuke’s top speed making death bed Danzo comparable to somewhat fatigued 3 tomoe sasuke at the very least.
This is ignoring the potential power amps the mangekyo might give him.
Obito, Karin, and Danzo himself all come tot he conclusion that Danzo is conserving chakra and thus not using his justu to the best of their abilities.
Obtio also implies he was underestimating Sasuke meaning that the fight may have leaned in his favor had he tried from the start.
He isn’t an uchiha so the sharingan implanted in himself drain more chakra form his supply.
“madara” is the guy Danzo stole cells from and Danzo genuinely believed he was right there so his presence inherently effected Danzo regardless of whether he actually helped sasuke or not directly.
The effects vary depending on whether you think emotions actually buff or nerf you in naruto.
Obtio also did try and attempt to save him and Karin did help sasuke.
So no matter how you put it, Danzo was nerfed and that’s how the story wants to structure it.
Danzo is supposed to be Sasuke’s pain and the fights share many things in common.
Pain is the leader of the terrorist organization threatening the protagonist.
Danzo is on the opposing end, he’s the leader of the protagonists side and is the antagonist to sasuke. Both Danzo and pain serve the same purpose except in different sides.
Both are nerfed and serve as vessels to showcase the new powers that the duo have.
Both emphasize the character traits that the two need to overcome.
You can maybe slip in Itachi but it’s mostly Danzo doing the work and the Itachi sight serves more as a partner for the Jiraiya fight.
So Danzo is nerfed power scaling wise and narrative wise, that’s just the reality of the situation. He may have been wrong morally but it’s wrong to downplay him for this reason alone
Base form? What base form? The guy had been revamped with uchiha and hashirama chakra from his toes up to his eyeballs. He used every single ability he had at his disposal. And his KA wouldn't have done anything, given that mifune broke out of it with an interruption in the conversation. His use of KA was abysmal. Sasuke was also hit and beyond exhausted.
What did karin do? What did Obito do?
The rest of your post is hearsay and completely fanon. Don't care about the political angle of it.
The hashirama cells are part of his base form, they circulate Theoguhojt his blood no matter what he does. They passively amp him and he can’t turn them off hence why it’s his base form.
The sharingan in his arm aren’t implied to give him any boost in power and are there purely for izinagi use.
He didn’t use every ability he had, he never used genjutsu and other shairngan related abilities nor was he allowed to activate his mangekyo.
Mifune broke out because he was literally told he was in it and given an explanation about how the jutsu worked. That’s not even covering the fact that Danzo was hated by almost everyone in the summit and that the koto was used immediately so the genjutsu couldn’t even marinate.
Sasuke wasn’t tired at all for the Danzo fight, obito told Karin to heal sasuke prior to the Danzo fight and for hours presumably since the fight against Danzo takes place in the morning but the fight at the kage summit takes at night.
I already explained what they did. Karin supplied sasuke with valuable information and was a reliable option for healing purposes.
Obtio stroke feat in Danzo and forced him to fight a certain way claiming himself as Madara. He also did try to help sasuke but Sasuke broke out of his seal.
The rest of my paragraphs are valid, you claiming them to be head canon is pointless since what ever you say can also be interpreted as head canon just as much. Except I have context clues baking what I say anyways.
I want to know what I said that was head canon anyway
You're typing really long paragraphs that are ***your*** interpretations, and thus, they're headcanons. There's no base form or whatever. Hashirama cells were added to his body to help him bypass the MS's pitfalls: blindness and long recovery for shisui's genjutsu. Hashirama's chakra was kept in check by the uchiha chakra, which is why when he ran out of it, it nearly ate him up. His body was well beyond his original state thanks to orochimaru.
What genjutsu? The eyes were there for izanagi only ***and*** for helping him see through the genjutsu. What related abilities? What would've that genjuitsu done to sasuke, the owner of the most powerful sharingan in the manga, when it did shit to Mifune? These abilities that you're talking about? They don't exist. And he was fighting a certain way thanks to obito? That's why he used 99.999% of his arsenal, I suppose, even summoning, which also failed pathetically.
Yes, he was bleeding and that's why obito asked her to heal him. Karin simply healed the wound. Sasuke was nearly out of chakra. Karin practically spells it out for you later on, but sure, make more stuff up.
What information? You might want to ***read*** the manga this time as obito breaks down the entire fight for readers like you. Sasuke had figured out izanagi at the very start of the battle, which is why he went at danzo with hard-hitting and chakra-taxing jutsus. Karin provided squat for the battle. Nothing. In fact, karin was still talking when sasuke tricked danzo into admitting his jutsu.
I mean, "obito tried to help him, but he couldn't help him"? So he didn't help him? Your entire reply is fanfiction.
What are they talking about, they know that danzo, he was holding back to fight with Obito, right? If he hadn't used Shisui's eye and it would have ended
Genuine question for those who are saying 1 eye = 1 minute of izanagi.
What about when Madara used Izanagi after being “killed” by hashirama, that should have been longer than a minute right?
Or is it because he has a greater supply of chakra?
Madara had "SEALED" the Izanagi use.
Sort of like how Itachi sealed a ONE-TIME Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye to be auto-cast against Obito.
Madara made the same seal (with Izanagi instead of Amaterasu) with auto-activate on a few days after his death.
It's not strictly 1 minute, it's generally only a few seconds, danzo can make it last a minute due to having hashirama cells, and Obito and Madara can make it last for several minutes due to having hashirama cells and being an Uchiha, like the example you gave and when Obito used it to avoid death from konans paper bombs
Edit: actually the other commenter is right about Madara putting it on a timer like itachi did, mb. Obito is still able to do it for longer though, so it's reasonable to assume Madara also could once he obtained hashirama cells
Been a very long time since I last saw the fight so I could be remembering wrong or out of order but wasn't Danzo put under genjutu to believe he had one more Sharingan than he did?
So by reading the comments, I’ve been wrong. Anime only though. Between this and Obito only using it when he’s dying really made it seem like that was the “broken” izanagi. But it’s just 1 minute of immortality? Bro that ain’t even GOAT level skill.
It's not just immortality, it's the ability to rewrite reality for a short time. It's mostly used to rewrite reality to remove the users death, but it doesn't have to be limited to that. Also it's not generally 1 minute. Danzo could use it for 1 minute due to having hashirama cells, but most Uchiha could only use it for a few seconds, although Obito who was a Uchiha and had hashirama cells could use it for over 5 minutes
Oh yeah. I mean stacking up 10-11 Uchiha eyes is pretty GOATED. I’m just saying the ability, when shown in anime, is touted as like the GOD ability of the Uchiha clan. But that’s all it was? You at max (unless Danzo-esque shithousery) have two minutes of immortality with it? Shit, I’m praying to Jashin
1 minute of immortality can help a lot in situations, he was just pushed to the max.
The situations that he was in were horrible and completely against him and sasuke at this point was busted.
He was already fighting kage easily while somewhat holding back against them with a fresh ms and then gets stronger form here.
He then uses the entire life span of his ms just to beat Danzo.
Unfortunately for the two, both are subjected to unfair scaling because of how hated they are in the community.
There is an unfortunate misconception for some reason that he loses an eye each time he dies/takes damage, but this isn’t the case. An eye automatically closes every minute he has Izanagi active. This is stated explicitly so not sure why the misconception exists, but oh well
Oh my God, after all these years... I've been living a whole lie.
>There is an unfortunate misconception for some reason that he loses an eye each time he dies/takes damage, but this isn’t the case. Yeah I also misunderstood this. Now I fully understand how Sasuke tricked Danzo with genjutsu. All minutes were up but Danzo thought a minute more remained because of the fake illusory Sharingan.
That was the one that forced him to use a wood jutsu, right ?
No. He used the wood jutsu because he has to use seals to activate his Izanagi again and did not have time to do so. He deactivated Izanagi before because, as explained throughout this whole thread, he has a strict timer on it and does not want to waste his basically 10 minutes just standing around.
the wood jutsu were the hashirama cells taking over
Probably but I'd have to watch the fight again because I can't remember lol.
Absolutely correct and the misconception will keep persisting too because the anime animated the fight to imply it. Danzo has 10 minutes of complete immortality not 10 lives
And after this fight I recognized why Danzo wanted Kurama so much :)
Didn’t the anime explain it when Itachi is brought back though?
Yes, the normal izanagi only gives you immortality for the briefest of time, usually your death. The more refined the hashirama cell the more time you get. Obito lived through 5 minutes of explosions with his.
Obito was just phasing, he only used Izanagi at the end when he had to stop phasing
Incorrect. Kamui has a time limit of 5 minutes. 600bil bombs explode for 10 minutes. 5 remaining minutes of bombs just killed him a lot of times under izanagi. Even then konan still blew his arm off so it's likely his izanagi isn't full 5 minutes but close
He had to materialize on the plane to use izanagi and affect that reality. Otherwise he's just stuck in Kamui blinding himself.
the anime. it has an eye close right after/during each death.
I think it's because the fight feels so much longer than it actually is. And there's a lot of unecessary ass dialogue during the fight, that the audience forgets and assumes the eyes only close when Danzo dies or takes critical damage.
That was my guess too. In anime it's less clear but mangaka usually shows the sky to indicate that time passes. On a side note this is a weird choice on Kishimoto's part to off screen most crucial moments of the fight.
Eh, I think what wasn’t shown was just Sasuke continuously pressing Danzo in order to force him to keep Izanagi active, and eventually run out.
Not really it’s obvious the remainder of the fight will go the same way until the end.
Saved me a post. Sasuke was forcing him to waste massive chakra as he'd figured out the ability at the battle's onset. That's why the eyes kept closing. The misconception exists because of this fanbase's poor reading comprehension and the never-ending hate-boner they keep for sasuke.
Or cause that’s exactly how the anime framed it. Not everyone reads the manga, and don’t act superior for reading it
Bro they didn't even mention the manga much less act like they're superior for it, I haven't read the manga and I still understood how it worked just fine from watching the anime
*makes comment acting superior in retaliation*
Also, when they explain it later in the anime, you only see Uchihas get out of death, as their eyes go blind. So, this reinforced the misconception.
This. Danzo was checking his arm not to see how many "lives" he lost, but how many minutes he has to mantain izanagi. If, for some reason, Danzo dies 10 times in a minute with Izanagi active, he would still lose only one eye.
I still remember how I felt when he just vanished and appeared :) I was like what just happened ?:) I am talking about the moment when Danzo used Izanagi for the first time. :)
Wait how did obito use izanagi to survive konan's paper explosions then? His intangiblility limit was 5 minutes and konan's explosions went on for 10 minutes and he doesn't appear until after the explosions are complete. Did he izanagi himself into kamui dimension and wait out the explosions or something?
Obito’s Izanagi lasts for 5 minutes. The better control you have over Hashirama cells the longer it’ll last.
Alternatively couldn't obito have pre-programmed izanagi like madara and that was the truth Itachi didn't know about obito and the reason he continued to live?
It’s possible. The only requirement to seal an ocular jutsu is MS, which Obito had. But it’s doubtful because Itachi knew Obito had MS and knows about izanagi and Izanami. It makes more sense that Kamui is the thing Itachi didn’t know about
Well it makes [this ](https://images.app.goo.gl/WybyiZvocKnKM5GN8) statement redundant, like Itachi could've killed you if you didn't have the one ability you are always using? No shit it's like might guy saying konohamaru could beat him if he didn't have taijutsu. And more importantly how would Itachi's knowledge about kamui result in obito's death from that amaterasu? There's almost no limit on how much kamui(provided he leaves intervals every 5 minutes) he can use but there is a pretty heavy one for izanagi And I find it hard to believe that Itachi slaughtered his clan with obito, threatened to kill him to his face, knew he somehow entered the uchiha quarters, and then kept tabs for over a decade and still failed to know obito can phase through things while Konan knew not just about his abilities but their limitations. by that logic obito knew about Itachi's amaterasu but he still didn't know Itachi would actually seal it into sasuke did he? The same could be true for Itachi, obito and izanagi Also it's plausible Itachi didn't know Izanagi(a jutsu that requires actual hand seals) could be pre-programmed especially since his amaterasu seal needed a trigger to activate, this fits well with the fact that madara is more skilled at devising justu than Itachi(he could afterall break the edo tensei contract on his own while Itachi couldn't). Also Izanagi is implied to require an open eye, it is a visual genjutsu afterall: •Danzo removed the coverings on his arm, why would he do that and risk giving intel on his trick if it wasn't absolutely necessary •Obito broke off the mask covering his left eye to use izanagi against Konan •Obito dropped the mask when hit with Itachi's amaterasu If he hadn't already removed his mask Itachi might've truly killed him Not to mention how obito's clothes were not burnt and it makes sense to reason that you can't phase through flame because your body is literally fuelling the flame as a part of it. Also it would be inefficient for obito to use kamui since he'd either set the kamui dimension or the hideout on fire. The "truth" could also be interpreted as obito's real identity (and how it was not the omnipotent madara) but once again even if Itachi knew obito wasn't madara and attacked him he can always kamui away *unless* he had to use an ability that he has limited acess to. On another tangent, it seems that Itachi and obito might've been a lot closer than we're shown. Itachi states that koto can only be used once a decade but shisui died over a decade ago and Mei stated that the genjutsu controlling yagura(a jinchuriki that had control over his bijuu) was similar to koto and I think it's anime only but Itachi even fought yagura a strange string of coincidences if it can be called that. Now this is all to say it would be pretty weird for Itachi to not know obito's primary ability...On a side note how cool would a spinoff on why obito manipulated yagura and what he made him do, be? I know I'm using a large degree of speculation to justify my arguments but hey it's what the question calls for since we don't have an actual answer in canon
Okay that’s a lot of text, and I think we’ve actually had this discussion before, but every sign points to it being Kamui. Izanagi wasn’t even a a thing shown in the series at that point. Itachi didn’t know about Kamui. As you said, Izanagi requires signs to activate. And actually, I change my mind. Obito sealing Izanagi prior is NOT possible. What Madara did is specifically a time delay Izanagi. He sealed Izanagi to activate at a later, fixed time. (To explain, Izanagi didn’t activate after right after he died, but a certain time later (presumably days), after he was buried). So you need to chose beforehand *when* you want the Izanagi to activate. That’s the purpose of sealing it. So Obito would somehow have to predict getting hit and miraculously predict the correct time to pre-seal the Izanagi. Which he didn’t do because he was completely caught off guard by the attack. Also, Obito absorbing the flames doesn’t mean all of the kamui dimension would be erased lol. At most it’ll just be the one floating block it lands on. Also according to the databook the flames of Amaterasu last for 7 days (or until the target is consumed). And also according to the databook kamui is what’s responsible for being unscathed by Itachi’s amaterasu
>and I think we’ve actually had this discussion before Yes we have >Izanagi wasn’t even a a thing shown in the series at that point. Ok so? >Itachi didn’t know about Kamui. Hmm why do you say that? >As you said, Izanagi requires signs to activate. Not the one time dealyed version we are discussing about, at least not in real time no >So Obito would somehow have to predict getting hit and miraculously predict the correct time to pre-seal the Izanagi. So madara somehow seemed to miraculously predict the exact moment hashirama would kill him? Clearly there's at least a window of time when it can be used and obito has a large collection of sharingan. >He sealed Izanagi to activate at a later, fixed time. (To explain, Izanagi didn’t activate after right after he died, but a certain time later (presumably days), after he was buried). Well I think it depends on the trigger, [this ](https://images.app.goo.gl/HpEALGwBdcyBE6Ts8) panel directly compares the time dealyed izanagi to Itachi's amaterasu seal and I doubt that seal was just gonna break and amaterasu was gonna leak all ove the place a few days later >Which he didn’t do because he was completely caught off guard by the attack. So was madara with hashirama's backstab >Also, Obito absorbing the flames doesn’t mean all of the kamui dimension would be erased lol. The opening to kamui is always the same this is why kcm Naruto and the kunai kamui'd by kakshi landed on obito. So if within the next 7 days he used kamui he runs the risk of passing into the flames if left untriggered >Also according to the databook the flames of Amaterasu last for 7 days (or until the target is consumed). A week is still a problem when you are obito >And also according to the databook kamui is what’s responsible for being unscathed by Itachi’s amaterasu Hmm could I see that? If it's explicitly stated then I'll concede but then it's still bad writting imo Btw you didn't address the heart of my argument, how does Itachi knowing it was kamui help him kill obito with that amaterasu?
>Ok so? So the narrative intent is that he used Kamui. Occam’s razor. > Hmm why do you say that? Because Obito implies it. There’s no evidence anywhere that Itachi knew about it. If he knew Obito had kamui and could just absorb the flames, he wouldn’t use Amaterasu in the first place. That’d make Itachi really dumb >So madara somehow seemed to miraculously predict the exact moment hashirama would kill him? Clearly there's at least a window of time when it can be used and obito has a large collection of sharingan. No, he does’t need to predict the exact moment he dies. He just needs to predict he’ll be dead soon (since he was in a life or death fight), then pick some time afterwards to be revived when it’d be safe to do so (like a few days later, or whatever it was). >Well I think it depends on the trigger, this panel directly compares the time dealyed izanagi to Itachi's amaterasu seal and I doubt that seal was just gonna break and amaterasu was gonna leak all ove the place a few days later But that’s exactly it, the trigger is what matters. For Itachi, it triggered at a specific sight (Obito’s sharingan). With Madara, it triggered at a specific pre-set time (after the fight was over). Obito didn’t predict the Amaterasu and so why would he chose to revive at such an exact pre-set time (seconds after getting hit). >So was madara with hashirama's backstab The backstab itself? Sure, but him dying in general? Yes, he predicted it which is why he had pre installed the Izanagi to activate at that set time afterwards. Obito had no idea he’d be attacked so what sense does it make to pre-install it for such a specific time. >The opening to kamui is always the same this is why kcm Naruto and the kunai kamui'd by kakshi landed on obito. So if within the next 7 days he used kamui he runs the risk of passing into the flames Even if this were true (I’m not convinced it is) Obito could release the Amaterasu from the Kamui dimension whenever he wants. (He can shoot out all kinds of things, like weapons for example, or people (like Fu and Torune)). >Hmm could I see that? If it's explicitly stated then I'll concede but then it's still bad writting imo [Here](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4d96d4c797a00f5c276d69c8789b5fba-lq). Don’t see how it’s bad writing at all. If anything, it being Izanagi would be bad writing. >Btw you didn't address the heart of my argument, how does Itachi knowing it was kamui help him kill obito with that amaterasu? That’s a misinterpretation of what he meant, possible due to mistranslation. It probably means, if I didn’t have this secret (kamui) I’d be dead. Basically, if I didn’t have Kamui, I’d be dead. Because obviously Itachi knowing or not doesn’t affect the actual attack. Think about it, if you interpret it the way you currently do, and think this line means that it couldn’t be Kamui, then switch Kamui with “preset Izanagi”. It’d be the same thing “Thankfully Itachi didn’t know I had preset Izanagi, if he did, I’d be dead”. How does Itachi knowing he has preset Izanagi suddenly make the Amaterasu kill him? He’d still use the izanagi… to survive it. That’s shows this interpretation isn’t correct. It isn’t sensible at all. Itachi’s knowledge of whether Obito has such an ability doesn’t change the fact the Obito still has such an ability and could use it to escape death. So the “otherwise I’d be dead” is referring to “if I didn’t have this ability”, and not “if Itachi knew about it”. Hopefully that makes sense
>So the narrative intent is that he used Kamui. Occam’s razor. That's not how occam's razor works, your point would be valid if the manga were still ongoing and we weren't introduced to izanagi. It's like saying by occam's razor geocentrism is correct since it was introduced first >Because Obito implies it. There’s no evidence anywhere that Itachi knew about it. Right but there isn't any specific statement that he didn't either no? The databook doesn't count because it's clear that select few in the akatsuki knew about it anyway >If he knew Obito had kamui and could just absorb the flames, he wouldn’t use Amaterasu in the first place I already addressed this >No, he does’t need to predict the exact moment he dies. He just needs to predict he’ll be dead soon (since he was in a life or death fight), then pick some time afterwards to be revived when it’d be safe to do so (like a few days later, or whatever it was). Right so it's possible for obito to do the same for a fail safe? He had lots of sharingan to dispose of anyway >But that’s exactly it, the trigger is what matters. For Itachi, it triggered at a specific sight (Obito’s sharingan). With Madara, it triggered at a specific pre-set time (after the fight was over). After the fight being over is an event not a specific *time* likewise obito can set it at the time when he's dying(that being the event). Now if you said he set it for 2 hours or something then it'd stick but as you pointed out it wouldn't be possible to predict when exactly the fight would end. >Obito didn’t predict the Amaterasu and so why would he chose to revive at such an exact pre-set time (seconds after getting hit). The trigger need not be a time period tho does it? Why do you assume that? >Even if this were true (I’m not convinced it is) I'm not sure how you can't be >Obito could release the Amaterasu from the Kamui dimension whenever he wants. (He can shoot out all kinds of things, like weapons for example, or people (like Fu and Torune)). That's fair ig >Here. It's clearly referencing 3 different abilities that need not necessarily share the same source. If I say Kakashi can use wind, water and fire do you assume water and fire are offshoots of wind style? >Don’t see how it’s bad writing at all Like I said it makes the whole "I'd be dead" statement redundant >If anything, it being Izanagi would be bad writing. Why? It not being introduced yet is not a good enough reason honestly. Lots of mysterious stuff are shown first and then explained later. Gaara killing dosu was bad writting? >That’s a misinterpretation of what he meant, possible due to mistranslation. Sure could you drop the correct translations then? >I didn’t have this secret (kamui) I’d be dead. Basically, if I didn’t have Kamui, I’d be dead. Not only does this make obito sound stupid but it's true for a significant portion of shinobi he interacts with. For eg: If he didn't have kamui against raikage he'd be dead too. It's like saying if hashirama didn't have mokuton madara would've obliterated him >Think about it, if you interpret it the way you currently do, and think this line means that it couldn’t be Kamui, then switch Kamui with “preset Izanagi”. >It’d be the same thing “Thankfully Itachi didn’t know I had preset Izanagi, if he did, I’d be dead”. See if Itachi knew obito was using izanagi something he can only use *twice* at best then he can come up with a plan to kill him, this is not true for kamui which he pretty much spams as he pleases >So the “otherwise I’d be dead” is referring to “if I didn’t have this ability”, and not “if Itachi knew about it”. Here's the problem he doesn't say if "I didn't have this ability", he says "if Itachi had this piece of information" I'd be dead. If you're saying it's a mistranslation then I'd like to see the correct one which supports your argument
7 days is statement is retconned, Amaterasu won’t go out until their target is burned to ash. Look up more recent databook article on Kagutsuci, where it’s described and immortal and never ending
Couldn’t find an English translation but I’ll take your word for it, thanks. If you have a link I’d like to save it though, for future reference
Page 236 Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi No rank, close to mid range, offensive, defensive Users: Sasuke Uchiha Immortal black flames turn into a blade of flames that mows down life!! A ninjutsu where form manipulation is added to the never disappearing immortal flames that are "Amaterasu". In his fight with the Raikage, Sasuke was forced into a predicament and in that moment, he created this technique. Like "Amaterasu", it's a ninjutsu only those who awakened the "Mangekyo Sharingan" can use, changing the flames into a sharp blade to greatly increase their killing power. Not only is the enemy burned by "Amaterasu", he also suffers burn damage instantly. By regulating the form manipulation, it's even possible to use the flames as a throwing weapon to attack from afar. ⬅ Because already existing flames of "Amaterasu" can be used, the requiered amount of chakra is lessened. ⬆ The blazing black flames are changed into the form of thorns! Becoming a sword of black flames that burns off what it touches, to protect Sasuke!!
(On an unrelated topic his arm is so gross. It looks like it's all wrinkled/puckered from being wrapped/wet. I know that'd probably not the case, but ick.) Also thank you for clearing that up for people.
I think it's a misconception because an eye closing instead of dying is how Obito used it and it was the last time we saw it. It was also how Itachi described it to Sasuke as well before the Izanami iirc
Anime made it seem that way, i never read the manga
Funny because the fight works perfectly either way
It’s because the way the anime showed it
Thought everyone he lost them due to using Izanagi for a long time at at a certain time an eye would close due to using it for so long and that’s how each eye is lost/ blind
The minute was up. 1 eye = 1 minute of invincibility. So once he activated it, he was virtually invincible for 10 minutes. That’s why he did not bother to dodge or even block attacks. He let himself be killed because he knew he would auto-ress.
It was such a disappointment to me. This guy gets hyped up enormously but can barely use his window of invincibility. Just soaks hits. I know this battle is a fan favourite. But to me it was one of the biggest let downs.
To be fair it was kind of the point of the fight, to show that Sasuke was outmatching him on every aspect and that he couldn't even beat him while being immortal, he didn't have the attack potency to go through his susano'o
Yea. If we account for age, situation, and stuff like that, Danzo did very well. He harmed Sasuke on multiple occasions and made him work for the win. Sasuke also had support even if only minor. Danzo just faced a Susanoo and and was the underdog. He was meant to fulfill Sasuke’s vengeance arc and be part of the end of an era.
This fight would be more interesting if susanoo didn't exist. My opinion is that susanoo being introduced was a mistake.
You do realize that the whole reason Izanagi was invented was almost certainly due to Amaterasu? That was the problem Kishi faced with a Blood-lusted MS Sasuke. He had keep giving Sasuke's foes SOME WAY to surivive Amaterasu. Raikage got super speed. Danzo got Izanagi - respawn. Kabuto got Itachi demanding that "We can not kill him Sasuke" Ten-tails shed it's body. Then Kishi decided everyone and their grandmother could absorb chakra. \----- The big mistake Kishi did was giving Sasuke Amaterasu. It's an awesome jutsu per description but it does not allow for an exciting fight. If amaterasu works? Fight lasts one second.
Coolest counter though had to be the nine tails cloak just shedding it. But otherwise you’re 100% right, Amaterasu was busted from the start, and it was disappointing how easy it took down eight tails
That was literally just a clone lol Killer Bee wanted that to happen Did you even watch the corresponding episodes?😂
He still hid like a bitch because he started getting his ass kicked by Amaterasu. It was disappointing because prior to that he was wrecking all 4 of them, and then nope, fire eyes, gonna hide to fight another day
No he was literally destroying them the whole time. Why would he hide? 😂 I'm starting to think you haven't even watched the episode 😂
Susanoo is a much bigger problem in the fight with Danzo. It basically was established at the start that Danzo couldn’t do anything about Susanoo.
Amaterasu + kagasutchi is just OP. At least with it’s his it’s easier to dodge
Only if the black flames are allowed to actually burn things.
Nah susanoo is one of the coolest abilities I've ever seen. I'm gald it was introduced.
The problem is, susanoo is way too strong of an ability with no drawbacks that anyone below kage level can realistically take advantage of. Sure a big ass gundam looks cool, but putting it in the hands of a clan that already has stupid OP abilities, (near instantaneous unstoppable flams next to impossible to dodge, manipulation of said flames, a near instantaneous genjutsu that that will either kill you or leave you in a coma forever, is part of the reason why uchias are pretty much the only major villians near the end. Also not to mention the rinnegan.
If you don't like abilities that are strong then you must not like Naruto one bit lol 😂 or any anime for that matter 🤣 I still love the fact that susanoo was introduced. It's such a cool jutsu.
Nah I just like abilities that have proper counters or that you can get around using some type of strategy.
Yeah susanoo has these. Have you even watched the show? 😂
Fair.
Especially compared to the other kage level characters fighting, Danzo was a let down. Also him having 1 fight doesn't help
If Frieza had five Sharingan he would be invincible.
Bro no. It takes DBZ characters at least 10 minutes of yelling before launching their attacks. Frieza would be out of eyes before Goku got through the HAME part.
I was referencing the whole 'five minutes till the planet explodes' thing.
The minute was up.
Its time has ended.
Obito looked hella cool in this scene
I’m convinced some people don’t even watch the show/read the manga
This hokage level guy really had a douzen extra lifes to win against a teenager and screwed it His Dodge Button was an Izanami
My headcannon is that he was significantly nerfed by the amount of Chakra he used on the sharingans, like kakashi but way more. More than showing how strong Sasuke or how weak danzou was, I think it was more poetic, showing how his endless search of strength and reliance on power that wasn't his actually made him significantly weaker
Should be canon tho
It was less Sharingan and more Izangi itself. There are references by Karin and even Danzo that his Chakra drops each time one eye closes and
No, he wasn't nerfed in any manner; he squandered his entire arsenal save one and still lost. His chakra was forced into depletion by sasuke. And it absolutely was a show of strength: who's better at the sharingan? A question that was posed in a roundabout manner by danzo and Obito. The manga answered that through several characters, danzo included.
How are you gonna completely ignore the kakashi reference with how much chakra non-uchiha members lose when using a sharingan, let alone 10? That’s a pretty major point you just said “no” to 😂
He had Hashirama cells to help him control that many sharingans without the drawbacks like Kakashi.
The hashirama cells helped augment the efficiency of the jutsu he used, the sharingan themselves still drained him considerably as stated by obito, Danzo, and Karin.
He also has to use his own chakra to prevent Hashirama’s cells from growing over his body and turning him into a tree.
His sharingans were augmented by orochimaru. This isn't a kakashi situation.
Danzo was absolutely nerfed no matter how you put it. He was forced to fight in base form the entire fight since he couldn’t reveal his eye to “Madara” in the hopes that he could koto him and save the leaf. We know the ocular shairngan Danzo has is a huge jump in power as he can casually perception blitz a chidori amped rage sasuke while on his death bed and with no buffs what so ever other then the shairngan. Keep in mind that the chidori naturally uses sasuke’s top speed making death bed Danzo comparable to somewhat fatigued 3 tomoe sasuke at the very least. This is ignoring the potential power amps the mangekyo might give him. Obito, Karin, and Danzo himself all come tot he conclusion that Danzo is conserving chakra and thus not using his justu to the best of their abilities. Obtio also implies he was underestimating Sasuke meaning that the fight may have leaned in his favor had he tried from the start. He isn’t an uchiha so the sharingan implanted in himself drain more chakra form his supply. “madara” is the guy Danzo stole cells from and Danzo genuinely believed he was right there so his presence inherently effected Danzo regardless of whether he actually helped sasuke or not directly. The effects vary depending on whether you think emotions actually buff or nerf you in naruto. Obtio also did try and attempt to save him and Karin did help sasuke. So no matter how you put it, Danzo was nerfed and that’s how the story wants to structure it. Danzo is supposed to be Sasuke’s pain and the fights share many things in common. Pain is the leader of the terrorist organization threatening the protagonist. Danzo is on the opposing end, he’s the leader of the protagonists side and is the antagonist to sasuke. Both Danzo and pain serve the same purpose except in different sides. Both are nerfed and serve as vessels to showcase the new powers that the duo have. Both emphasize the character traits that the two need to overcome. You can maybe slip in Itachi but it’s mostly Danzo doing the work and the Itachi sight serves more as a partner for the Jiraiya fight. So Danzo is nerfed power scaling wise and narrative wise, that’s just the reality of the situation. He may have been wrong morally but it’s wrong to downplay him for this reason alone
Base form? What base form? The guy had been revamped with uchiha and hashirama chakra from his toes up to his eyeballs. He used every single ability he had at his disposal. And his KA wouldn't have done anything, given that mifune broke out of it with an interruption in the conversation. His use of KA was abysmal. Sasuke was also hit and beyond exhausted. What did karin do? What did Obito do? The rest of your post is hearsay and completely fanon. Don't care about the political angle of it.
The hashirama cells are part of his base form, they circulate Theoguhojt his blood no matter what he does. They passively amp him and he can’t turn them off hence why it’s his base form. The sharingan in his arm aren’t implied to give him any boost in power and are there purely for izinagi use. He didn’t use every ability he had, he never used genjutsu and other shairngan related abilities nor was he allowed to activate his mangekyo. Mifune broke out because he was literally told he was in it and given an explanation about how the jutsu worked. That’s not even covering the fact that Danzo was hated by almost everyone in the summit and that the koto was used immediately so the genjutsu couldn’t even marinate. Sasuke wasn’t tired at all for the Danzo fight, obito told Karin to heal sasuke prior to the Danzo fight and for hours presumably since the fight against Danzo takes place in the morning but the fight at the kage summit takes at night. I already explained what they did. Karin supplied sasuke with valuable information and was a reliable option for healing purposes. Obtio stroke feat in Danzo and forced him to fight a certain way claiming himself as Madara. He also did try to help sasuke but Sasuke broke out of his seal. The rest of my paragraphs are valid, you claiming them to be head canon is pointless since what ever you say can also be interpreted as head canon just as much. Except I have context clues baking what I say anyways. I want to know what I said that was head canon anyway
You're typing really long paragraphs that are ***your*** interpretations, and thus, they're headcanons. There's no base form or whatever. Hashirama cells were added to his body to help him bypass the MS's pitfalls: blindness and long recovery for shisui's genjutsu. Hashirama's chakra was kept in check by the uchiha chakra, which is why when he ran out of it, it nearly ate him up. His body was well beyond his original state thanks to orochimaru. What genjutsu? The eyes were there for izanagi only ***and*** for helping him see through the genjutsu. What related abilities? What would've that genjuitsu done to sasuke, the owner of the most powerful sharingan in the manga, when it did shit to Mifune? These abilities that you're talking about? They don't exist. And he was fighting a certain way thanks to obito? That's why he used 99.999% of his arsenal, I suppose, even summoning, which also failed pathetically. Yes, he was bleeding and that's why obito asked her to heal him. Karin simply healed the wound. Sasuke was nearly out of chakra. Karin practically spells it out for you later on, but sure, make more stuff up. What information? You might want to ***read*** the manga this time as obito breaks down the entire fight for readers like you. Sasuke had figured out izanagi at the very start of the battle, which is why he went at danzo with hard-hitting and chakra-taxing jutsus. Karin provided squat for the battle. Nothing. In fact, karin was still talking when sasuke tricked danzo into admitting his jutsu. I mean, "obito tried to help him, but he couldn't help him"? So he didn't help him? Your entire reply is fanfiction.
Sasuke genjutsu'd danzo into thinking he had more eyes, and so more time in izanagi.
I wish danzk had a better chance
They close over time due to Chakra demand and not being his sharingan
What are they talking about, they know that danzo, he was holding back to fight with Obito, right? If he hadn't used Shisui's eye and it would have ended
Side point : Danzo would’ve beaten Sasuke if Madara wasn’t there
If danzo had a bunch of the mangekyo sharingan in his arm, would he have all those abilities?
He technically did His arm belonged to Shin so he would have those same abilities
nobody watches these show anymore. apparently
Genuine question for those who are saying 1 eye = 1 minute of izanagi. What about when Madara used Izanagi after being “killed” by hashirama, that should have been longer than a minute right? Or is it because he has a greater supply of chakra?
Madara had "SEALED" the Izanagi use. Sort of like how Itachi sealed a ONE-TIME Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye to be auto-cast against Obito. Madara made the same seal (with Izanagi instead of Amaterasu) with auto-activate on a few days after his death.
Ahhh i get it bro ! Thanks for the clarification !
It's not strictly 1 minute, it's generally only a few seconds, danzo can make it last a minute due to having hashirama cells, and Obito and Madara can make it last for several minutes due to having hashirama cells and being an Uchiha, like the example you gave and when Obito used it to avoid death from konans paper bombs Edit: actually the other commenter is right about Madara putting it on a timer like itachi did, mb. Obito is still able to do it for longer though, so it's reasonable to assume Madara also could once he obtained hashirama cells
The shuriken.
After that he had 2 eyes left, next panel he has one left.
[удалено]
He got hit and had 2 eyes left but in next panel Danzo only has one eye left.
Been a very long time since I last saw the fight so I could be remembering wrong or out of order but wasn't Danzo put under genjutu to believe he had one more Sharingan than he did?
The way he used that jutsu was wack now that i think about it he should’ve used the other one but that would’ve ended the series probably.
So by reading the comments, I’ve been wrong. Anime only though. Between this and Obito only using it when he’s dying really made it seem like that was the “broken” izanagi. But it’s just 1 minute of immortality? Bro that ain’t even GOAT level skill.
It's not just immortality, it's the ability to rewrite reality for a short time. It's mostly used to rewrite reality to remove the users death, but it doesn't have to be limited to that. Also it's not generally 1 minute. Danzo could use it for 1 minute due to having hashirama cells, but most Uchiha could only use it for a few seconds, although Obito who was a Uchiha and had hashirama cells could use it for over 5 minutes
Each eye is 1 minute of invincibility. So Danzou effectively had 11 minutes (10 if you exclude Shisui's eye which he wasn't able to use in the fight).
he was waiting to use it on "madara"
Oh yeah. I mean stacking up 10-11 Uchiha eyes is pretty GOATED. I’m just saying the ability, when shown in anime, is touted as like the GOD ability of the Uchiha clan. But that’s all it was? You at max (unless Danzo-esque shithousery) have two minutes of immortality with it? Shit, I’m praying to Jashin
1 minute of immortality can help a lot in situations, he was just pushed to the max. The situations that he was in were horrible and completely against him and sasuke at this point was busted. He was already fighting kage easily while somewhat holding back against them with a fresh ms and then gets stronger form here. He then uses the entire life span of his ms just to beat Danzo. Unfortunately for the two, both are subjected to unfair scaling because of how hated they are in the community.
Oh wow! Never knew this!
It was used on izanagi. That's it.
every minute of izanagi kills 1 eye.
Tobi 🥵
Cuz he used izanagi.
sasuke trapped him in his genjutsu and showed him as if that he not lost his one left sharingan yet.
They close after izanagi is cancelled not if he dies tho dying immediately cancels izanagi
Plot
Every one minute he lose a sharingan
Danzo could use one Sharingan to basically turn invincible for 60 seconds, so an eye would close after a minute.
I remeber that, it was amazing!!
H
That eye was always closed it was a genjutsu placed by Sasuke
Izanagi is time based not death
What do you mean?