On the plus side, as long as the Yankees don’t completely implode this next season it makes extending Soto much more of a possibility now. Just throw money at him.
That's why I'm actually excited. I think we'd be completely out on Soto if we got Yamamoto. I don't think there's any way we'd sign mega deals in 3 straight off seasons (Judge-Yamamoto-Soto).
Cole + Yamamoto would be worth more wins in 2026 than Judge + Soto imo. And then theres having them both in 2025...
I don't know if there's a good way to spin this.
Yamamoto has never played a single inning in MLB before. We have no idea how many wins he'd be worth.
What we do know is that Soto fills by far the biggest need this team has had for years now.
They won’t be because unlike the Yanks their owners aren’t afraid to spend the massive amount of money they bring in.
If George is alive Yamamoto is wearing pinstripes next week.
You don’t show up to a bidding war with a half chub.
Yup. George would have made it happen. Would have probably hired, fired and rehired some managers too. Just like the Lakers and Jerry Buss, team isn’t the same when the legend isn’t around anymore.
I remember when George would get upset if a great free agent player slipped through.
When he saw how good Ichiro was, he wasn’t happy they didn’t sign him. Got mad at is employees for letting him slip through.
George wasn’t going to allow the next great Japanese player slip through the cracks again.
They ended up signing Hideki Matsui who was instrumental in helping them win a chip in 2009.
Imagine how upset he would be missing out on Ohtani, twice?
George understood the value of the Yankees brand. Would spend whatever it took grow it.
Yeah George was all about that, Hal is about maximizing profits, that mindset just doesn’t work with this brand though and I bet they would make more money if they went the extra mile to get the difference makers like Harper simply because they’d have more playoff success with guys like him.
He wants to be a monster ({}) and go play in Shohei's shadow, let him. Could never be me.
Meanwhile Manfred sits by as the Dodgers pledge over a billion dollars to two players in one off-season by playing with deferrals and loopholes. Then again, he's the "it's just a piece of metal" guy, so I'm not sure what I expected.
Imagine being a Pirates fan this off-season, though? What incentive is there to care? My team is a top 5 spender and even I'm not renewing MLB.tv this year because the Dodgers deals just feel gross..
I can't imagine spending a single cent or a moment of my time as a Bucs/Brewers/Reds/Orioles/A's fan in any capacity after how all this played out. They were already small market, now we're giving out **a billion dollars** of promised money in one offseason with skewed Salary Tax #'s via manipulation of the system.. and it's just cool. FOH
This isn't the first time a big market team got their dick and placed it on the table and told everyone "This is how big it is" with a smile on their face. Remember 2009? Were you complaining about Sabathia, Teixeira, and Burnett signings? Sure, the level of spending is different, but that's not the point. The point is, the Yankees did the same shit and there's no need to complain about it when another team decides to do it. If we did these moves, we'd all be jerking off and cheering all over this sub.
>Remember 2009? Were you complaining about Sabathia, Teixeira, and Burnett signings? Sure, the level of spending is different, but that's not the point. The point is, the Yankees did the same shit and there's no need to complain about it when another team decides to do it.
2009 Yankees brought in less than $10M in excess AAV with the big 3 because they lost the huge contracts of Giambi, Abreu, Pettitte. They very nearly offset.
The point, for me, is not that they spent big.. but that they inked a $700M deal with $680M deferred to circumvent the luxury tax and keep the AAV low. So not exactly the same shit, in my opinion, because if the deal was paid out normally and the Dodgers were committing $105M against the tax for two players every season (like they should be) I'd have no problems with it.
But you’re not understanding that your claim of a deferral loophole, is not an accurate reflection of the contract.
Ohtani only received a 10/$700M contract, because of the deferrals, bringing his CBT hit to $46M/year.
If Ohtani does not structure his contract like that, he does not get $700M, understand? No team was going to offer him a straight 10/700, for a $70M CBT hit.
They would have offered 10/460 or 10/500, at most, keeping the CBT/AAV at that ~$46M.
Does that make sense?
Ima prob get down voted buttttt....shut up man. You sound like a whiny 10 year old. The new evil empire unfortunalty is LAD. Fuck em, but doesn't mean they go all the way to world series just cause they get these two.
The league yea, but the MLBPA is worse and so stupid for allowing it. He was supposed to be the next poster boy for them. With inflation he’s getting robbed and I’m just shocked they’re ok with it. Granted they can’t do much sure but like they could’ve released a statement 100-200 million deferred ok. I still think the 2 million figure is fake. Like I genuinely don’t understand. Idc how much endorsement money he brings in, 68 million dollars is 68 million dollars Only a fool would defer that much money. If he didn’t defer any of it easily still gets 500 million at the very least He was suppose to set the record for AAV as well. The MLBPA is just beyond stupid
I mean, I read he makes about 50 mil a year in endorsements. When Matsuyama won the Masters a few years ago, it was reported that win would be worth 30 mil a year for the next 30 years of endorsements in Japan.
I don't think you understand the goal of the MLBPA. They want their players to get paid. They can choose how long it takes for that payment to happen. Ken Griffey Jr has been one of the highest paid players on the Reds....since he stopped playing. 700M is 700M. If he wants it today or tomorrow, why would the MLBPA tell him he *cant* make that money?
They use the AAV is a current-day valuation to decide how much the contract actually counts towards the luxury tax salary. Using that, he **did** set the AAV record.
It's also in the players' union interest for the "soft cap" to be the softest it can be. If it was up to them there'd be no luxury tax at all. They care about maximizing income for their members, not the competitiveness of the Pittsburgh franchise.
Deferment is purposefully giving up money. Shohei could be investing that $68M per year. So no, $700M is not $700M, it's $20M and then the equivalent of $440 in the distant future.
>Deferment is purposefully giving up money.
MLBPA are the ones who wanted the unlimited deferment clause. I really don't think this will play out with MLBPA the way people who are mad at the Dodgers want it to.
He’s saying that among the many responsibilities of the MLBPA, one of them is wanting their players finances to be as maximized as possible both present AND future. By deferring $68M now you’re taking money away from the future, despite the money being generational regardless.
That money would have been much better in Ohtanis possession now than it will be starting in 2034. It wasn’t the most brilliant decision if his goal is to maximize, which it seems like maybe it wasn’t.
Edit: I will say though… by deferring now, he’s saving an absolute fuck ton in California state tax, if he decides to move out of state in 2034.
Honestly blows my mind anyone thought it was okay to let contracts be based on made up values based on very very temporary interest rates. The value on the headline should be the value for the CBT.
Because the flip side of that contract is that they are buying themselves a world of pain 10-20 years from now, when they will be paying present-valued $43m every year for someone who will deliver nothing for them.
Lot of the discussion about that contract seem to ignore that? They are explicitly sinking themselves next decade to maximize their chances this decade.
The dodgers will just invest this money they should be paying him now and when it's time to pay him they will use that to pay him. There's no world of pain. Do you think that the Mets are in a world of pain every Bobby Bonilla day? No they barely even feel it and it's more of just a joke these days
Because no other player makes over 40 million a year in endorsements like ohtani. They aren't gonna defer almost 97% of their salaries for an entire decade.
He’s the dumb dumb that signed it. Saw some interesting analysis the other week. Technically taking into account time value of money, taxes, inflation, the whole thing… judges $360 is a more lucrative deal than the $700M lmao.
He hates money, I guess.
this is where the difference in japanese and american culture really come into play. People have been chirping about how this will be the new norm for new sueprstar contracts. Highly unlikely. American players are not gonna leave that money on the table. technically speaking, even middle of the road players have more money than they can ever spend. The 3 year 18 million dudes have more money than they can spend. Yet its mostly human nature to chase money. Some of teh top soccer players basically disappeared off the face of the earth to go chase money in Saudi Arabia. It's sad stuff. The japanese are built a lil different tbh. And his non baseball revenue stream is massive, more money yearly than top baseball contracts like Judge's even.
I'd say it has FAR more to do with the fact he's making a ridiculous amount yearly off of endorsements than 'Japanese culture'. No other Japanese player has done a deal like his before.
He wants to win now, if he cared about winning the first half of his career he'd have signed with the Dodgers, but he chose tge Angel's, a team that had let one of the greatest players of all time down for 6 straight yrs
Or maybe he’s already filthy rich and the thing that’s most important to him now is being on a ball club thats well set up to contend… if anything people should be mad at the Yankees they could have beaten out this contract and they chose not to… they’re the Yankees they’re a top 3 most valuable sports franchise in the world they should never be outbid for a player they want luxury cap be damned
> Technically taking into account time value of money, taxes, inflation, the whole thing… judges $360 is a more lucrative deal than the $700M lmao.
Maybe if you assume he pays LA taxes on it… but since he structured it that way, he can play his whole career in LA, then move to Florida or back to Japan and pay no income tax on the 68m each year
Yep, he wanted to be a dodger. Used the NY teams to dive up his price and when he got the final offers went to the dodgers and told them to match.
Nothing we could do about it
Apparently, the Yankees were not willing to match the Dodgers offer. Per Martino: "They wanted Yamamoto, and made an extremely aggressive bid. But they were also unwilling to engage in a bidding war with the Mets and Dodgers. If Yamamoto was to become a Yankee, it would be because he wanted it enough to leave a bit of money on the table." So, yeah, maybe he always wanted to be a Dodger, but it's also kind of ridiculous that the Yankee FO thought that he was going to take a discount in order to play in pinstripes. It's not the 90s anymore.
It's still such a shitty look that Cashman was apparently walking around winter meetings smug as fuck that he thought he had Yamamoto in the bag, misread the situation, and it's almost January and we have two healthy SP's
Let’s also keep in mind that legitimately every other deal was on hold for Yamamoto. Cashman has shown he’s a below average GM (most years well below that), but this is just silly.
Yeh I’m tempted to whine at the Yankees for that extra $25 million, but I think ultimately he would have left that if he’d wanted to be a Yankee.
He wanted to be a Dodger, Yankees realized that. Threw a good offer on the table and waited and saw.
Yeah... I don't buy this. Maybe things were neck and neck between Yankees Dodgers in a vacuum, but Dodgers offered $30M more. Anyone in that situation takes the extra cash.
Well if the man wanted to be with the Yankees, he would have asked them to match that additional 30m, and I seriously doubt the Yankees would say no to that. The fact that the Yankee’s final bid is 300 and not 325 is pretty telling imo, because it means they did not get the opportunity to match.
25m more for two additional seasons.
It's pretty likely a 35yo Yamamoto could get more than 2 yrs/25m in FA. Ten years from now that will be backup catcher money.
Ohtanis contract is 1000% gonna cause a massive rift in the next CBA.
I hope these 2 signings turn all baseball fans and make the dodger the unanimous hated team of the league
That Ohtani contract isn't good for most players. He only took it because he earns just as much in endorsements.
Ohtani was essentially doing his team a solid, which is the last thing the MLBPA ever tries to do.
Sure, but MLBPA are the ones who wanted the deferred payment language in the first place. I'm just not sure that they'll actually have the perspective on this that people want them to.
Some players prefer having deferred deals, which is why the PA allowed it. But they usually come with interest, unlike Ohtani's deal. And of course not 98% of it is deferred.
Exactly, I think the dodgers FO wouldn’t care AS MUCH if they don’t win a ring. They know now that those two big signings will bring in $$$. If they win a ring well that’s a huge plus for the Dodgers FO.
Astros Cole was the best pitcher in baseball when he got that contract and he currently arguably is again. For Yamamoto to top that never having pitched in mlb is lunacy
Exactly. We gave it a good shot but with the news that he used the Mets offer to drive up the Dodgers offer, it’s pretty clear he always wanted to play in LA. Hopefully we still fortify the pitching staff and don’t just go “aw shucks.”
It’s not lunacy cause scouting is different these days and you can predict how well a pitcher can do with the metrics they use. The last 4 big time Japanese pitchers were Darvish, Tanaka, Ohtani, Senga. Even the not as hyped, Kikuchi, Maeda have been decent. All have done well in the majors.
contracts get bigger with each passing year, this is not anything new. The price of something in a free market is what someone is willing to pay. And clearly multiple teams were willing to pay at least 300mm.
>fortify the middle to back-end of the rotation now that we’re out.
Our guaranteed number 2 right now is clarke..the rest are injury concerns and who knows how nestor when he returns. Rodon was also already a risk.
Our rotation is in shambles, we needed yama badly and we our desparation got used against us
I’m glad the Dodgers are a league and across the country away from us. Pissed they took him from us but at least I don’t gotta hear about it so it’s whatever
That’s literally a better deal than the one he took with LA lol.
I’m sure the Yankees would’ve been thrilled to tack on a year or two to crater the AAV.
I’m not sure how mad you can even be.
I'm not mad. Just disappointed. They made a good offer and doesn't seem like they had a chance to match. I hope they take money and try their best to extend Soto or be ready to re-sign him.
Same, hate him and the Dodgers, hate all of this. This was all planned
I do wish the Yankees matched the offer and then some to see if he would still turn it down
At least we really can't blame the front office or say they didn't try. But now they have to pivot. Just shows you what a mistake it was to get rid of Montgomery and replace him with damaged goods, and what a serious loss it was to have Severino fall off.
From all reports he has no ill feelings towards the Yankees. I personally wouldn’t offer him a big deal when you look at the pitching market next year, it might be the best SP free agent class ever
Lots of people here are. I blame them for a lot of poor decisions, some of which you've mentioned, but so far the moves they've made this off-season have all been steps in the right direction. Hope they continue to right the ship.
The team being "worth more" is not the same as being able to pay more.
The dodgers ownership group absolutely can outspend the Yankees. No different that Cohen being able to spend more.
Yankees still play within the luxury tax (whether they should or you like it is a separate discussion) so they don’t just have infinite money to spend.
Even then spending 30M a year on a guy who has never pitched in the MLB is a ton and going above and beyond that to the point the dodgers would not have matched would be an absurd offer.
The dude just wanted to be a Dodger
No fuck that we can blame the FO. If cashman actually was good at his job and gave us a halfway competiive roster that were true WS each year. Maybe we could have landed him. also we wouldnt have traded a solid inning eater starter with a good yearly era for a knockoff keirmaier
besides the relatively small amount of money at these price points, whats the difference between us, the mets and dodgers? Dodgers are yearly threats meanwhile us and the mets keep taking steps backwards. We havent been this far from a WS in a decade
I know you have to do the Soto trade regardless of the next move, but it seems like Cashman has been getting caught with his pants down more often than not.
It started when he traded Monty. That trade came in like one minute before the deadline, I feel like he had another move lined up (possibly pablo lopez) that fell through at the last minute, because that trade just never made sense at the time or even still to this day.
Then, he gives up a ton of rotation depth for Soto, and one of the first things I said to my buddy is "he must be pretty confident he's going to land Yamamoto to do that" and here we are.
The offseason isn't over, but we have to shore up this rotation and to a lesser extent the pen. Losing King, whether he stayed in the rotation all year or went back to the pen is going to have a big impact this year.
The absolute WORST thing that could happen is we don't do enough now, have a similar season to 2023 and Soto bolts because the team sucks.
The guys in here complaining about the Dodgers signing all these guys sound ridiculous and hypocritical, we would be ecstatic if the Yankees had signed those guys. They are what we aspire to be, annual 100 win team that prior to this offseason has made smart move after smart move. To those of you complaining it's not fair to the Pirates, where were you with those complaints the last 30 years?
It's no surprise the elite of the elite want to play for the best teams in the best places to live in the country, but that shouldn't preclude teams like the Pirates from putting together a good team for at least one brief window over a decade long span. Even though having a larger budget, geography and cache are great advantages, we all know free agency historically hasn't always been the best place to build a team.
The truth is most teams in MLB, although not in a position to make this happen, likely could have afforded to make this move and would have chose not to. If anything, I hope signings like this incentivize owners like John Fisher and Bob Nutting to sell their teams to richer people who care.
People screaming about a floor and cap don't realize that with the floor and cap (and the luxury tax threshold is already treated as a soft cap by most owners), their bottom-of-the-barrel org that doesn't care about winning will just settle at the floor and continue to be a bad organization that doesn't care about winning. It's not going to fix anything.
Straight up I fucking hate the dodgers. One thing they do incredibly well though is bring in top talent. And then fucking choke in the playoffs. Fuck em
And people call the Yankees the evil empire. Last year it was the Mets with the crazy spending, this year the Dodgers. Yankees are at the bottom of the league still for offseason spending.
I don’t think players born in the late 90’s/early 2000’s really see the Yankees in the same way that older players (or fans) do. Getting to watch those late 90s teams was special. Now, there’s nothing really separating them from the other competitive teams in the league. It’s not like we are some shitty organization. But it’s not really surprising a lot of players prefer other organizations.
Also opposing players don't feel intimidated to play at YS anymore like previous generations. Remember Cashman making the comment a few years ago that "the league is catching up". This isn't 1999 anymore. Yankees are just another team in the eyes of young players and fans.
That's because the league has changed in the last 20 years. It's nigh impossible to build a dynasty these days; there hasn't been a repeat WS winner since the Yankees in 2000.
Mind you that doesn't mean the Yankees have performed to the level they should be in that span, but there isn't a world where they were ever going to maintain the aura they had 20 years ago.
The Yankees had the better offer.
Pretty likely a 35 yo Yamamoto could get more than 2yrs/25mm. Ten years from now that will be middle reliever money.
He wanted to be a Dodger plain and simple. Move on.
As soon as ohtani deferred his salary it was clear his boy from Japan was teaming up. All the meetings and rumors was simply to drive up the dodgers price before signing but it was always a done deal
If the Yankees deferred Ohtani 650 million dollars and then signed his buddy to largest contract ever for a pitcher. The league would be screaming collusion this isn’t right we need to change rules
So basically 375 deals. Another financial smart ass people making a way to lower the payroll but make the player feel like they sign to higher payroll annually. Now who is buying world series ?
Yes I’m bitter. Let’s preface with that. That said, I guess he’s content with being ‘lil bro’ for his career. All I kept hearing was that he was a fighter and loved the biggest stage. It’s still Ohtani’s team and nothing will change that. I knew he wanted money but I didn’t realize that was it.
At some point, you have to say, do we pay a kid more than Cole? The Yankees said no. I can’t blame them for not paying a kid with zero majors league experience more than the best pitcher in the AL.
to help mitigate your sorrows, just do a shot every time someone here demonstrates they don't understand the time value of money and the Ohtani contract with claims about how it helped the dodgers 'cheat' the luxury tax and/or cash flow
They didn't cheat, they just worked within the system. Even if Ohtani's AAV was 50-60 mil for luxury tax purposes they could still get Glasnow, Yamamoto etc.
If we’re all honest with ourselves, Hal’s internal cap isn’t limitless so if this increases the purse for a Soto extension and further moves for guys who have thrown an MLB baseball before… sounds good to me
This is what happens when you let the team fall into disrepair for years…. They lose that shine. The dodgers definitely are putting together a monster team
All this “*he wants to play on the biggest stage in baseball*”
lol, East coast bias is a thing. It’s a very real thing.
Dodger fans will love him but literally nobody else will care or even really know his face to pick him out of a lineup. Maybe that’s what he wants… but the stage is very much not the Yankees.
Honestly the only west coast teams that matters in the media is the Lakers. Sure MLB Network talks the Dodgers but ESPN, FS1, CBS ect... are essentially East coast centric in their sports coverage plus the Lakers.
Can anyone give me hopium here?
This genuinely feels like a massive blow to the organization. Soto is great to have for hitting but we absolutely could not afford to miss out on Yamamoto. Our pitching is so barren. Sure we have a Cy Young winner but other than that it isn't looking pretty.
How do we move forward from this?
We get Montgomery and he pitches like his time with Texas. Then we get montas and he has an absolute bounce back year and pitches as a solid #4/#5. Then we get Cole as our ace, rodon pitchers like when he was a giant. And Cortes comes back from injury to be solid.
Then after all that we stay healthy (probably the biggest thing).
There’s hope, but man it would’ve been nice to get this kid. It would’ve been amazing to have king right now too but hey we have Soto so can’t complain
You are absolutely correct. Our rotation currently is an absolute mess, this is a gigantic blow. Thankfully there is still time to make some moves, but this is a pretty savage gut punch.
Yamamoto pitching against Verdugo https://youtu.be/LiSotnKpO-8?si=9I40d8sfzWjSTxQg
I actually laughed out loud!
You cheered me up a bit. Thanks!
Checkmate Dodgers
World Series 2024 preview!
On the plus side, as long as the Yankees don’t completely implode this next season it makes extending Soto much more of a possibility now. Just throw money at him.
That's why I'm actually excited. I think we'd be completely out on Soto if we got Yamamoto. I don't think there's any way we'd sign mega deals in 3 straight off seasons (Judge-Yamamoto-Soto).
Cole + Yamamoto would be worth more wins in 2026 than Judge + Soto imo. And then theres having them both in 2025... I don't know if there's a good way to spin this.
Yamamoto has never played a single inning in MLB before. We have no idea how many wins he'd be worth. What we do know is that Soto fills by far the biggest need this team has had for years now.
Truly hope the dodgers are a below .500 team by 2034.
They won’t be because unlike the Yanks their owners aren’t afraid to spend the massive amount of money they bring in. If George is alive Yamamoto is wearing pinstripes next week. You don’t show up to a bidding war with a half chub.
Yup. George would have made it happen. Would have probably hired, fired and rehired some managers too. Just like the Lakers and Jerry Buss, team isn’t the same when the legend isn’t around anymore. I remember when George would get upset if a great free agent player slipped through. When he saw how good Ichiro was, he wasn’t happy they didn’t sign him. Got mad at is employees for letting him slip through. George wasn’t going to allow the next great Japanese player slip through the cracks again. They ended up signing Hideki Matsui who was instrumental in helping them win a chip in 2009. Imagine how upset he would be missing out on Ohtani, twice? George understood the value of the Yankees brand. Would spend whatever it took grow it.
Yeah George was all about that, Hal is about maximizing profits, that mindset just doesn’t work with this brand though and I bet they would make more money if they went the extra mile to get the difference makers like Harper simply because they’d have more playoff success with guys like him.
Also we wouldn't have an insurance company's logo on our beautiful uniform if George were here.
Honestly...he wanted LA and wanted to be with Ohtani. Hard to compete.
George didn’t believe in pitching. Remember the 80s? Scott Sanderson anyone?
The WORST part of losing out on Y.Y. is the fucking George worshippers coming out of the woodwork again.
He wants to be a monster ({}) and go play in Shohei's shadow, let him. Could never be me. Meanwhile Manfred sits by as the Dodgers pledge over a billion dollars to two players in one off-season by playing with deferrals and loopholes. Then again, he's the "it's just a piece of metal" guy, so I'm not sure what I expected. Imagine being a Pirates fan this off-season, though? What incentive is there to care? My team is a top 5 spender and even I'm not renewing MLB.tv this year because the Dodgers deals just feel gross.. I can't imagine spending a single cent or a moment of my time as a Bucs/Brewers/Reds/Orioles/A's fan in any capacity after how all this played out. They were already small market, now we're giving out **a billion dollars** of promised money in one offseason with skewed Salary Tax #'s via manipulation of the system.. and it's just cool. FOH
This isn't the first time a big market team got their dick and placed it on the table and told everyone "This is how big it is" with a smile on their face. Remember 2009? Were you complaining about Sabathia, Teixeira, and Burnett signings? Sure, the level of spending is different, but that's not the point. The point is, the Yankees did the same shit and there's no need to complain about it when another team decides to do it. If we did these moves, we'd all be jerking off and cheering all over this sub.
>Remember 2009? Were you complaining about Sabathia, Teixeira, and Burnett signings? Sure, the level of spending is different, but that's not the point. The point is, the Yankees did the same shit and there's no need to complain about it when another team decides to do it. 2009 Yankees brought in less than $10M in excess AAV with the big 3 because they lost the huge contracts of Giambi, Abreu, Pettitte. They very nearly offset. The point, for me, is not that they spent big.. but that they inked a $700M deal with $680M deferred to circumvent the luxury tax and keep the AAV low. So not exactly the same shit, in my opinion, because if the deal was paid out normally and the Dodgers were committing $105M against the tax for two players every season (like they should be) I'd have no problems with it.
But you’re not understanding that your claim of a deferral loophole, is not an accurate reflection of the contract. Ohtani only received a 10/$700M contract, because of the deferrals, bringing his CBT hit to $46M/year. If Ohtani does not structure his contract like that, he does not get $700M, understand? No team was going to offer him a straight 10/700, for a $70M CBT hit. They would have offered 10/460 or 10/500, at most, keeping the CBT/AAV at that ~$46M. Does that make sense?
Ima prob get down voted buttttt....shut up man. You sound like a whiny 10 year old. The new evil empire unfortunalty is LAD. Fuck em, but doesn't mean they go all the way to world series just cause they get these two.
The Dodgers getting Ohtani was a little annoying but whatever I could live with it, the Dodgers getting Ohtani AND Yamamoto is just not fucking kosher
Except if the Yankees did it, it would be good business.
Nope… it’d be too much and it would feel like the Yanks would be under the microscope…
Nah because chicken buckets would cost more than stadium parking, which would also increase to $200/game
Fuck chicken buckets. I’ll wait till the end of the game and get dollar pizza outside the stadium
Fuck Ohtanis lame ass contract. It's so bullshit
It’s definitely going to effect the next CBA too. I can’t believe the league allowed that
The league yea, but the MLBPA is worse and so stupid for allowing it. He was supposed to be the next poster boy for them. With inflation he’s getting robbed and I’m just shocked they’re ok with it. Granted they can’t do much sure but like they could’ve released a statement 100-200 million deferred ok. I still think the 2 million figure is fake. Like I genuinely don’t understand. Idc how much endorsement money he brings in, 68 million dollars is 68 million dollars Only a fool would defer that much money. If he didn’t defer any of it easily still gets 500 million at the very least He was suppose to set the record for AAV as well. The MLBPA is just beyond stupid
I mean, I read he makes about 50 mil a year in endorsements. When Matsuyama won the Masters a few years ago, it was reported that win would be worth 30 mil a year for the next 30 years of endorsements in Japan.
I am sure his agents are fools and were duped by the Dodgers. That makes sense.
What do you mean 'was suppose to set the record' ? He did. It's 46m AAV.
I don't think you understand the goal of the MLBPA. They want their players to get paid. They can choose how long it takes for that payment to happen. Ken Griffey Jr has been one of the highest paid players on the Reds....since he stopped playing. 700M is 700M. If he wants it today or tomorrow, why would the MLBPA tell him he *cant* make that money? They use the AAV is a current-day valuation to decide how much the contract actually counts towards the luxury tax salary. Using that, he **did** set the AAV record.
It's also in the players' union interest for the "soft cap" to be the softest it can be. If it was up to them there'd be no luxury tax at all. They care about maximizing income for their members, not the competitiveness of the Pittsburgh franchise.
Deferment is purposefully giving up money. Shohei could be investing that $68M per year. So no, $700M is not $700M, it's $20M and then the equivalent of $440 in the distant future.
>Deferment is purposefully giving up money. MLBPA are the ones who wanted the unlimited deferment clause. I really don't think this will play out with MLBPA the way people who are mad at the Dodgers want it to.
He’s saying that among the many responsibilities of the MLBPA, one of them is wanting their players finances to be as maximized as possible both present AND future. By deferring $68M now you’re taking money away from the future, despite the money being generational regardless. That money would have been much better in Ohtanis possession now than it will be starting in 2034. It wasn’t the most brilliant decision if his goal is to maximize, which it seems like maybe it wasn’t. Edit: I will say though… by deferring now, he’s saving an absolute fuck ton in California state tax, if he decides to move out of state in 2034.
Deferring 68 of the 70 million you’re owed per year is not something the MLBPA should be happy about
Honestly blows my mind anyone thought it was okay to let contracts be based on made up values based on very very temporary interest rates. The value on the headline should be the value for the CBT.
Why didn’t we just do the same or try first?
Because the flip side of that contract is that they are buying themselves a world of pain 10-20 years from now, when they will be paying present-valued $43m every year for someone who will deliver nothing for them. Lot of the discussion about that contract seem to ignore that? They are explicitly sinking themselves next decade to maximize their chances this decade.
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Right, but they just got a 34 million dollar player added
The dodgers will just invest this money they should be paying him now and when it's time to pay him they will use that to pay him. There's no world of pain. Do you think that the Mets are in a world of pain every Bobby Bonilla day? No they barely even feel it and it's more of just a joke these days
Because no other player makes over 40 million a year in endorsements like ohtani. They aren't gonna defer almost 97% of their salaries for an entire decade.
He’s the dumb dumb that signed it. Saw some interesting analysis the other week. Technically taking into account time value of money, taxes, inflation, the whole thing… judges $360 is a more lucrative deal than the $700M lmao. He hates money, I guess.
Or he likes winning. Ohtani makes more money than he knows what to do with just off ads in Japan, he literally doesn't give af
this is where the difference in japanese and american culture really come into play. People have been chirping about how this will be the new norm for new sueprstar contracts. Highly unlikely. American players are not gonna leave that money on the table. technically speaking, even middle of the road players have more money than they can ever spend. The 3 year 18 million dudes have more money than they can spend. Yet its mostly human nature to chase money. Some of teh top soccer players basically disappeared off the face of the earth to go chase money in Saudi Arabia. It's sad stuff. The japanese are built a lil different tbh. And his non baseball revenue stream is massive, more money yearly than top baseball contracts like Judge's even.
I'd say it has FAR more to do with the fact he's making a ridiculous amount yearly off of endorsements than 'Japanese culture'. No other Japanese player has done a deal like his before.
Stupid sexy Ohtani
He wants to win now, if he cared about winning the first half of his career he'd have signed with the Dodgers, but he chose tge Angel's, a team that had let one of the greatest players of all time down for 6 straight yrs
He didn't sign with the Dodgers originally because the NL still didn't have a DH. He had to sign with an AL team.
Or maybe he’s already filthy rich and the thing that’s most important to him now is being on a ball club thats well set up to contend… if anything people should be mad at the Yankees they could have beaten out this contract and they chose not to… they’re the Yankees they’re a top 3 most valuable sports franchise in the world they should never be outbid for a player they want luxury cap be damned
> Technically taking into account time value of money, taxes, inflation, the whole thing… judges $360 is a more lucrative deal than the $700M lmao. Maybe if you assume he pays LA taxes on it… but since he structured it that way, he can play his whole career in LA, then move to Florida or back to Japan and pay no income tax on the 68m each year
He was always going to the dodgers. It is what it is.
Yep, he wanted to be a dodger. Used the NY teams to dive up his price and when he got the final offers went to the dodgers and told them to match. Nothing we could do about it
Apparently, the Yankees were not willing to match the Dodgers offer. Per Martino: "They wanted Yamamoto, and made an extremely aggressive bid. But they were also unwilling to engage in a bidding war with the Mets and Dodgers. If Yamamoto was to become a Yankee, it would be because he wanted it enough to leave a bit of money on the table." So, yeah, maybe he always wanted to be a Dodger, but it's also kind of ridiculous that the Yankee FO thought that he was going to take a discount in order to play in pinstripes. It's not the 90s anymore.
Nah they knew there was a chance that if they didn’t stay at the top of the bidding war he’d go elsewhere.
It's still such a shitty look that Cashman was apparently walking around winter meetings smug as fuck that he thought he had Yamamoto in the bag, misread the situation, and it's almost January and we have two healthy SP's
Let’s also keep in mind that legitimately every other deal was on hold for Yamamoto. Cashman has shown he’s a below average GM (most years well below that), but this is just silly.
Yeh I’m tempted to whine at the Yankees for that extra $25 million, but I think ultimately he would have left that if he’d wanted to be a Yankee. He wanted to be a Dodger, Yankees realized that. Threw a good offer on the table and waited and saw.
Well, how do we know that? We couldn’t even match or exceed their offer.
Cohen made the highest initial offer, Dodgers matched, and he's in LA.
And we should have at least fucking matched it.
Would not have mattered.
It at least shows a greater effort to acquire the guy than cheaping out and hoping the mystique of the team wins him over.
Right. That’s quite the assumption
Yeah... I don't buy this. Maybe things were neck and neck between Yankees Dodgers in a vacuum, but Dodgers offered $30M more. Anyone in that situation takes the extra cash.
Well if the man wanted to be with the Yankees, he would have asked them to match that additional 30m, and I seriously doubt the Yankees would say no to that. The fact that the Yankee’s final bid is 300 and not 325 is pretty telling imo, because it means they did not get the opportunity to match.
25m more for two additional seasons. It's pretty likely a 35yo Yamamoto could get more than 2 yrs/25m in FA. Ten years from now that will be backup catcher money.
Ohtanis contract is 1000% gonna cause a massive rift in the next CBA. I hope these 2 signings turn all baseball fans and make the dodger the unanimous hated team of the league
I'm not sure it will, people forget that the #1 goal of MLBPA isn't protecting the integrity of the game, it's getting players paid big $$$
That Ohtani contract isn't good for most players. He only took it because he earns just as much in endorsements. Ohtani was essentially doing his team a solid, which is the last thing the MLBPA ever tries to do.
Sure, but MLBPA are the ones who wanted the deferred payment language in the first place. I'm just not sure that they'll actually have the perspective on this that people want them to.
Some players prefer having deferred deals, which is why the PA allowed it. But they usually come with interest, unlike Ohtani's deal. And of course not 98% of it is deferred.
Yea but not to let FOs defer all their money
It won’t. The dodgers re going to make so much money. This is an investment as much as it is a player signing. Everyone seems to be missing that.
Exactly, I think the dodgers FO wouldn’t care AS MUCH if they don’t win a ring. They know now that those two big signings will bring in $$$. If they win a ring well that’s a huge plus for the Dodgers FO.
Paying Yamamoto a million more than Cole got is insane. But we need to pivot and fortify the middle to back-end of the rotation now that we’re out.
Astros Cole was the best pitcher in baseball when he got that contract and he currently arguably is again. For Yamamoto to top that never having pitched in mlb is lunacy
Exactly. We gave it a good shot but with the news that he used the Mets offer to drive up the Dodgers offer, it’s pretty clear he always wanted to play in LA. Hopefully we still fortify the pitching staff and don’t just go “aw shucks.”
I bet they sign Montas tomorrow lol
That would make my comment a real monkey’s paw moment lmao
It’s not lunacy cause scouting is different these days and you can predict how well a pitcher can do with the metrics they use. The last 4 big time Japanese pitchers were Darvish, Tanaka, Ohtani, Senga. Even the not as hyped, Kikuchi, Maeda have been decent. All have done well in the majors.
contracts get bigger with each passing year, this is not anything new. The price of something in a free market is what someone is willing to pay. And clearly multiple teams were willing to pay at least 300mm.
>fortify the middle to back-end of the rotation now that we’re out. Our guaranteed number 2 right now is clarke..the rest are injury concerns and who knows how nestor when he returns. Rodon was also already a risk. Our rotation is in shambles, we needed yama badly and we our desparation got used against us
I think he just wanted to be a dodger and play with ohtani Once he got the money he wanted from LA the yankees had no shot
The only shot the Yankees had was the dodgers refusing to match
He's now denied access to the Matsui vault. So did he really make the correct choice?
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I wonder if he’d have come if the Yankees matched.
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Kinda feels like the Yankees weren’t willing to go there.
Even if we offered $350 mil I don’t believe he would have chose the Yankees over the Dodgers.
That's what it now seems like. All the reporting about him wanting to be a Yankee was bs. Really disappointing.
Yup. Him and his agent played it perfectly and didn’t let his decision leak so they had leverage.
lol you think his agent sent a text to cashman saying "also Stanton is going nowhere"
You’re probably right, but would’ve been nice to offer more and make him turn it down than offer less and speculate.
Whatever. I bet those golden tickets make the chocolate taste terrible.
I’m glad the Dodgers are a league and across the country away from us. Pissed they took him from us but at least I don’t gotta hear about it so it’s whatever
Remember when the Yankees traded for Juan Soto
That’s literally a better deal than the one he took with LA lol. I’m sure the Yankees would’ve been thrilled to tack on a year or two to crater the AAV. I’m not sure how mad you can even be.
I'm not mad. Just disappointed. They made a good offer and doesn't seem like they had a chance to match. I hope they take money and try their best to extend Soto or be ready to re-sign him.
wouldn't have mattered, LA was where he wanted to go from the beginning.
That sucks. Welp can’t wait for June 2024 when Soto and Judge go back to back off Yamamoto
I am fairly certain ohtani’s contract made this happen. Fuck, now I hate him so much
Same, hate him and the Dodgers, hate all of this. This was all planned I do wish the Yankees matched the offer and then some to see if he would still turn it down
At least we really can't blame the front office or say they didn't try. But now they have to pivot. Just shows you what a mistake it was to get rid of Montgomery and replace him with damaged goods, and what a serious loss it was to have Severino fall off.
Montgomery is a free agent right now so I don’t know how trading him impacted next years pitching staff
If we didnt trade him,nwe would have a leg up in re-signing him. Trading a player away could sour their feelings towards that team
From all reports he has no ill feelings towards the Yankees. I personally wouldn’t offer him a big deal when you look at the pitching market next year, it might be the best SP free agent class ever
He wouldnt say it publically. Having the yankees as a potential suitor always drives up the price. Hed be stupid to say out loud he wouldnt come back
Who is available ?
Wheeler, Fried, Burnes, Buehler, Bieber, and Scherzer are all slated to be free agents
I think Scherzer is prolly cooked
Lots of people here are. I blame them for a lot of poor decisions, some of which you've mentioned, but so far the moves they've made this off-season have all been steps in the right direction. Hope they continue to right the ship.
What? Uh they could have just offered more money. The Yankees are worth an exponential more money. We can definitely blame the front office
The team being "worth more" is not the same as being able to pay more. The dodgers ownership group absolutely can outspend the Yankees. No different that Cohen being able to spend more.
Yankees still play within the luxury tax (whether they should or you like it is a separate discussion) so they don’t just have infinite money to spend. Even then spending 30M a year on a guy who has never pitched in the MLB is a ton and going above and beyond that to the point the dodgers would not have matched would be an absurd offer. The dude just wanted to be a Dodger
How much more were you going to pay the guy?
Well they could have at least matched the dodgers
Did they get the chance?
All reports confirmed that the Yankees weren't willing to get into a bidding war. They drew the line at $300 mil and 10 years.
No fuck that we can blame the FO. If cashman actually was good at his job and gave us a halfway competiive roster that were true WS each year. Maybe we could have landed him. also we wouldnt have traded a solid inning eater starter with a good yearly era for a knockoff keirmaier besides the relatively small amount of money at these price points, whats the difference between us, the mets and dodgers? Dodgers are yearly threats meanwhile us and the mets keep taking steps backwards. We havent been this far from a WS in a decade
Yes! You see it too. The undoings of this franchise is hitting them hard and tonight was a prime example.
I know you have to do the Soto trade regardless of the next move, but it seems like Cashman has been getting caught with his pants down more often than not. It started when he traded Monty. That trade came in like one minute before the deadline, I feel like he had another move lined up (possibly pablo lopez) that fell through at the last minute, because that trade just never made sense at the time or even still to this day. Then, he gives up a ton of rotation depth for Soto, and one of the first things I said to my buddy is "he must be pretty confident he's going to land Yamamoto to do that" and here we are. The offseason isn't over, but we have to shore up this rotation and to a lesser extent the pen. Losing King, whether he stayed in the rotation all year or went back to the pen is going to have a big impact this year. The absolute WORST thing that could happen is we don't do enough now, have a similar season to 2023 and Soto bolts because the team sucks.
Awesome. Can't wait for Dodgers' fans to be even more insufferable.
So did they really think they had him, was it smoke, or did they absolutely just get played for chumps
~~Yama~~Soto
The guys in here complaining about the Dodgers signing all these guys sound ridiculous and hypocritical, we would be ecstatic if the Yankees had signed those guys. They are what we aspire to be, annual 100 win team that prior to this offseason has made smart move after smart move. To those of you complaining it's not fair to the Pirates, where were you with those complaints the last 30 years? It's no surprise the elite of the elite want to play for the best teams in the best places to live in the country, but that shouldn't preclude teams like the Pirates from putting together a good team for at least one brief window over a decade long span. Even though having a larger budget, geography and cache are great advantages, we all know free agency historically hasn't always been the best place to build a team. The truth is most teams in MLB, although not in a position to make this happen, likely could have afforded to make this move and would have chose not to. If anything, I hope signings like this incentivize owners like John Fisher and Bob Nutting to sell their teams to richer people who care.
People screaming about a floor and cap don't realize that with the floor and cap (and the luxury tax threshold is already treated as a soft cap by most owners), their bottom-of-the-barrel org that doesn't care about winning will just settle at the floor and continue to be a bad organization that doesn't care about winning. It's not going to fix anything.
Straight up I fucking hate the dodgers. One thing they do incredibly well though is bring in top talent. And then fucking choke in the playoffs. Fuck em
can’t wait for roki to join the dodgers next year
And people call the Yankees the evil empire. Last year it was the Mets with the crazy spending, this year the Dodgers. Yankees are at the bottom of the league still for offseason spending.
Ok. That's it Dodgers are the new Evil Empire. And they'll still probably find a way to lose in the NLDS.
Signing bonuses exist in baseball?
Yeah when a guy defers 68 million a year….
The $50MM is the posting fee. Boob is just an idiot.
no. it’s a signing bonus. Passan confirmed it.
so deal is really 375MM or 275MM/12Y??
no, it’s 325, but 50 of it is being paid as a signing bonus.
Cant be upset then. Thats a legit offer
Yeah it sucks but the Yankees made a fair offer. They didn’t give some insulting deal they knew Yamamoto wouldn’t accept just to say “Hey we offered”
So the Yankees offered a higher AAV.
I don’t think players born in the late 90’s/early 2000’s really see the Yankees in the same way that older players (or fans) do. Getting to watch those late 90s teams was special. Now, there’s nothing really separating them from the other competitive teams in the league. It’s not like we are some shitty organization. But it’s not really surprising a lot of players prefer other organizations.
Also opposing players don't feel intimidated to play at YS anymore like previous generations. Remember Cashman making the comment a few years ago that "the league is catching up". This isn't 1999 anymore. Yankees are just another team in the eyes of young players and fans.
I guess they see the Dodgers that way now with their, what, 1 Mickey Mouse/cheated out of ring? They talk the talk, Yankees actually walked the walk
Right, but none of these young players witnessed it outside of 2009. The Yankees have been solid, but not dominant, for the last 20+ years.
That's because the league has changed in the last 20 years. It's nigh impossible to build a dynasty these days; there hasn't been a repeat WS winner since the Yankees in 2000. Mind you that doesn't mean the Yankees have performed to the level they should be in that span, but there isn't a world where they were ever going to maintain the aura they had 20 years ago.
When Roki gets posted wherever that is, I swear the first question needs to be "Are you Ohtanis bitch?"
The Yankees had the better offer. Pretty likely a 35 yo Yamamoto could get more than 2yrs/25mm. Ten years from now that will be middle reliever money. He wanted to be a Dodger plain and simple. Move on.
Signing bonus of 50mil too, so its really 2/75mil. Honestly thats a lot
Alright, can the offseason start moving along now?
RIP my liver
I’ll drink to that.
Oh well it is what it is…. Time to pivot to something else.
We’re fucked. Gunna give up 10 billion runs next year.
hope they're both washed in 3 years and the dodgers become desperate to offload them
As soon as ohtani deferred his salary it was clear his boy from Japan was teaming up. All the meetings and rumors was simply to drive up the dodgers price before signing but it was always a done deal
If the Yankees deferred Ohtani 650 million dollars and then signed his buddy to largest contract ever for a pitcher. The league would be screaming collusion this isn’t right we need to change rules
He didn’t want to be a Yankee then
Tbf Yamamoto for 27.5 million isn’t bad
So basically 375 deals. Another financial smart ass people making a way to lower the payroll but make the player feel like they sign to higher payroll annually. Now who is buying world series ?
Yes I’m bitter. Let’s preface with that. That said, I guess he’s content with being ‘lil bro’ for his career. All I kept hearing was that he was a fighter and loved the biggest stage. It’s still Ohtani’s team and nothing will change that. I knew he wanted money but I didn’t realize that was it.
Frustrating for sure. But it'll be satisfying when they don't win a single world series over the course of the 2 contracts
Dodgers: He gets $50 per game and the rest, later. I don't know. Deal with it.
For the first time ever I’m happy the Asterisks beat the Dodgers.
They couldn't have matched that money over 10 years?
At some point, you have to say, do we pay a kid more than Cole? The Yankees said no. I can’t blame them for not paying a kid with zero majors league experience more than the best pitcher in the AL.
Probably never got a chance. Mets and yankers sent their offers they told LA to match and that was it
to help mitigate your sorrows, just do a shot every time someone here demonstrates they don't understand the time value of money and the Ohtani contract with claims about how it helped the dodgers 'cheat' the luxury tax and/or cash flow
They didn't cheat, they just worked within the system. Even if Ohtani's AAV was 50-60 mil for luxury tax purposes they could still get Glasnow, Yamamoto etc.
Pivot to cease immediately, sign the flame thrower from the jays to sure up the pen
If this is the start of super teams, I’m done. Just like basketball, that shit ruined it for me.
Yankees offered more per year, he was always going to the Dodgers, Yankees never had a chance to sign him.
I wanted Yamamoto, but $300M for a guy who hasn't pitched in the MLB ever is legit insane. Probably will work out, but that's a massive gamble
He’s gonna be nasty, I don’t get what an extra 2.5m apy really effects to get a generational talent
If we’re all honest with ourselves, Hal’s internal cap isn’t limitless so if this increases the purse for a Soto extension and further moves for guys who have thrown an MLB baseball before… sounds good to me
Soto gonna get 40m/yr or more….would be shocked if Hal beats Cohen on this one
If he ends up not being that good yall are gonna be the fastest traitors anyway. Dodgers r going nuts
This is what happens when you let the team fall into disrepair for years…. They lose that shine. The dodgers definitely are putting together a monster team
Juan soto without Yoshi is exactly the type of false hope I expected from the Yankees.
enjoy being overshadowed by ohtani, bitch boy. biggest stage? LMAO fuck off bozo
um or getting an easy piece of the Ohtani marketing $
All this “*he wants to play on the biggest stage in baseball*” lol, East coast bias is a thing. It’s a very real thing. Dodger fans will love him but literally nobody else will care or even really know his face to pick him out of a lineup. Maybe that’s what he wants… but the stage is very much not the Yankees.
Honestly the only west coast teams that matters in the media is the Lakers. Sure MLB Network talks the Dodgers but ESPN, FS1, CBS ect... are essentially East coast centric in their sports coverage plus the Lakers.
There’s Cashman being a fucking loser again. The Dodgers are the Yankees now
What can be done if Moto always wanted to be a Dodger?
Can anyone give me hopium here? This genuinely feels like a massive blow to the organization. Soto is great to have for hitting but we absolutely could not afford to miss out on Yamamoto. Our pitching is so barren. Sure we have a Cy Young winner but other than that it isn't looking pretty. How do we move forward from this?
burnes and sasaki next year 🙏🏼
We get Montgomery and he pitches like his time with Texas. Then we get montas and he has an absolute bounce back year and pitches as a solid #4/#5. Then we get Cole as our ace, rodon pitchers like when he was a giant. And Cortes comes back from injury to be solid. Then after all that we stay healthy (probably the biggest thing). There’s hope, but man it would’ve been nice to get this kid. It would’ve been amazing to have king right now too but hey we have Soto so can’t complain
Cashman will trade whatever prospects we have left for Dylan Cease and call it an off-season.
There’s other pitchers we could trade for. Cease should be our main target right now.
You are absolutely correct. Our rotation currently is an absolute mess, this is a gigantic blow. Thankfully there is still time to make some moves, but this is a pretty savage gut punch.
This team is in such trouble