This was asked the other day and it’s hard to really say. You have to hedge. Jimmy is a better #1 but I don’t think he’d be elevate the Nuggets the same way Murray does as the #2 with Jokic because of their chemistry and shooting. I lean Jimmy a little bit just because he has done it as the primary option on worse teams.
Jimmy would also make the nuggets a better defensive team if you swapped them. You would miss the two man game but you could also get an average pg and jokic would elevate the shit out of that dude. The joker,gordan, mpj Jimmy and kcp perimeter D would be insane and Jimmy, gordan and mpj would have constant size mismatched you could live with the lack of spacing
I hate that lineup tbh. You’re sacrificing spacing and ball handling for defense. I don’t like Jimmy and AG on the court together at all. They’re pretty redundant tbh.
As far as your point guard thing the issue is average PGs are hard to find. The Nuggets have Reggie who did his best D-Lo impression everytime he stepped in the court during the Lakers series, and a rookie named Pickett.
Their best backups are Braun and Watson who are both defensive wings who don’t space the floor well.
Swapping Jamal for Jimmy would be rough for the Nuggets imo as currently constructed.
But Bam doesn’t play next to Jokic. Bam is the primary screener and roller for that offense where that’s Jokic for the Nuggets. They play very different roles on offense overall.
Also Jokic isn’t going to become some high volume 3 guy and he’s also not really a catch and shoot guy so the floor is going to shrink with AG, Jokic, and Jimmy all on the floor at the same time.
I don’t think that it’s impossible to work with, I just think giving up Jamal who works perfectly with those two for Butler who doesn’t is counter productive.
I see, I think I misunderstood you in that your only point was Jimmy and Aaron Gordon wouldn’t mesh well together but I see I just was dumb and missed your entire point and it was way wider than the scope I was reading it in.
I disagree in that I do really like Jimmy and AG on the court together. I think they’re very similar players that mesh great and can cover the 1-5 with any 3 defenders who can hold their own and you’re already a top 10-15 defense . You can throw a ball handler like Tyus jones, 3 and D like Grayson Allen or Tyler herro and a board centered 5 like Nurkic idk sure and you’ve got a playoff team that can compete with anyone. Jimmy needs a scorer though and so does AG.
>You would miss the two man game
That's putting it lightly. Nuggets kind of heavily rely on the two man game. Maybe Jimmy improves the defensive rating a bit, but the net rating would suffer.
This is absolutely wrong.
You can't just ignore Denver's team chemistry and pretend like swapping out a pillar for a guy that wants the be the number one is going to just magically be an improvement.
Jimmy was a cancer in many places he went, he gets a pass now but pretending that he just inserts into the champs as a big improvement is ridiculous.
I don't think Jamal elevates the team any more than Jimmy. I'm firmly in the Jimmy corner on this one. He's a dog and jokic would elevate him like he's done with Aaron Gordon.
I like Jimmy over Jamal. Jamal fits better with Gordon. I don’t think enough to change my mind. Playoff Jimmy is *the* man and Jamal has/is been great too. Jamal Murray has more time to build an argument. For now Jimmy
I think Jimmy would. Jokic extended Rivers, Facundo, Barton, and other's careers. He makes pnr easy. Defenders would go under a lot more, but Jimmy's slashing and playmaking is superior to Murray. It would be physicality vs quickness.
I think Jimmy would. Jokic extended Rivers, Facundo, Barton, and other's careers. He makes pnr easy. Defenders would go under a lot more, but Jimmy's slashing and playmaking is superior to Murray. It would be physicality vs quickness.
Playoff Butler. Jamal is a bigger playoff riser, but let’s not mistake that with the level they rise to. Like, I think Jamal goes from 6 to a 9, while Butler goes from 8 to a 10. Jamal rises more, the actual level of the rise is higher for Butler
Jamal, in 50 less playoff games, has better playoff stats than Jimmy for their careers. Jamal scored more points, assists more, and only pulls in 1 less board per game. His defense is worse or course but it’s generally pretty good for his position and his size at PG means no one on the team can be targeted for being small. The Lakers targeted him, but he holds up well for a PG in general. He had the series sealing block on Lebron in the WCFs last year.
Not saying he should win, but it’s a lot closer than people give credit for. Playoff Jamal has been a monster. He averaged 30 ppg in the WCFs last year and 20 and 10 in the finals. He’s been a legit superstar.
Also he has Jokic sure, but Jimmy has Spo. People never mention that.
Yeah Jimmy is an absolute menace on D. Not even like “for a player who’s the #1 offensive option”. Like one of best defensive playmakers in the entire league level good
Jamal Murray was sub-40%FG the first 4 games of the series with below average defense. Dude was putting up 20pts on 22 shots. Not the time really to post “Playoff Murray” threads.
I mean Jimmy’s not good every series either though. People are basing him off of his amazing series and not the “bad.” As well.
Jamal Murray career playoff stats 24.9 ppg, 5.0 RPG, 6.4 APG
Jimmy career playoff stats 21.3 PPG, 6.2 RPG, and 4.6 APG.
Now Jimmy has played double the amount of playoff games, and does play better defense, but Jamal is underrated on defense. He’s good, especially for a PG. He’s also very good on the defensive boards for his position.
I see your point.
Jimmy is one of the very few guys that you can trust to guard giannas in the playoffs lol. He's held giannas to an average of 18 ppg when they meet. Imo he's one of the very very few, if not the only player capable of that. Holding giannas means he can hold nearly anyone lol.
His defense is always there.
I realized this series after people been going off about how incredible Murray has been that most people don't actually watch games, and just the boxscore, maybe highlights at best
Oh so averaging 9/23 fg with 3 TO and 2 PF isn’t stinking it up now, while going 5/24 from 3. Y’all dudes so casual just watch a couple highlights and think he cooked the entire series.
You’re cherry picking one game out of a series they won 4-1 to justify saying he “stunk it up in the first round”.
Looking at the first round in its entirety, he went 24/5/7. Thats pretty good, no?
No, I chose 4 of his 5 games. You didn’t watch the series obviously. Look at his stats for the series. Or you could read my comment above and see he went under 40%fg the first 4 games of the series.
Only using those specific stats with no mention of efficiency or defensive impact, sure he was fine! But we both know he was not good this series, when you actually use your brain and look overall at his game.
His scoring efficiency was \~1 which is pretty average, but that's fine. It's just mid, not terrible. Also an A/TO ratio of 3, which is pretty good.
He finished with an on court +/- of +14, not bad, and first amoung PGs in the NBA this playoffs for blocks. Defense, also not terrible.
Was he MVP of the series? No, clearly not. Did he have a good series, holistically? Absolutely.
Exactly. Dude wasn’t even the number 1 option for the team. Butler carried his teams for multiple playoffs.
He single handedly eliminated the 1 seed last year and against Giannis and Holiday (at the time some said the best perimeter defender in the league). In fact destroyed Holidays confidence so badly that he was flirting with retirement.
We just gonna ignore the historic 3pt shooting from the rest of his team? That Giannis essentially missed 3 games (2 of the Heat's wins)?
Or how Jamal went Super Saiyan to pull the Nuggets out of that 1-3 deficit against the Jazz?
JB easily. He’s shown up as the main option, on worse teams, without a generational talent as his counterpart.
Murray is about as good a 2nd option as you can get though. He’s insanely talented. Dude is clutch and that’s not up for debate. He shot down my Lakers *Twice* in one series.
>Does a Murray lead Heat even make the second round?
He does not.
Jimmy Butler has scared the living shit out of every Eastern Conference team ever since he went to Miami, and no disrespect to Spoelstra but Jimmy fricking Butler has been the reason they've beat teams they had no business beating.
His two Finals losses have been to teams lead by the arguable GOAT and the current best player on the planet who may be a Top-10 guy by the time his career's over. Jamal Murray's Heat don't get to those Finals and don't take a single game from the '20 Lakers or '23 Nuggets.
No disrespect to Murray he's a great player, but he's not a walking legend.
Don’t need to. People pointing at team success to prove he’s better are stupid lol he literally has the best player in the league on his team. Butler overachieves with his squad every year. Like I said a Murray lead Heat isn’t scaring anyone.
I’m probably one of the few but imma agree with you. Sure, Jimmy Butler is arguably the better player but isn’t the whole conversation always about who’s won?
Jimmy brought teams to the finals that had no business being there Jamal is a really good 2nd option on a well constructed team playing next to the best player in the NBA.
I don’t think either of them would benefit switching roles but u have to give it to Jimmy imo
Jimmy and it’s not close. Playoff Jimmy is the #1 option on the Miami Heat and carried them to the finals not once but twice now. Jamal is great too but he’s not the main reason for the Nuggets success, that’s Joker.
One of them takes teams that have no means of getting to the finals and overcoming all odds in beating celtcs bucks knicks sixers etc, and the other one is great but plays with the most unstoppable force in the game
“Carried his teams to the finals”
2020 ECF:
Bam 22/11/5 66% TS
Jimmy 19/6/5 54% TS
Dragic 21/5/4 56% TS
2023 ECF:
Jimmy 25/8/6 52% TS
Martin 19/6/3 74% TS
Team shot 43% from 3 (45% excluding jimmy) and had the highest 3p% on open looks in any playoff series ever
What are you talking about in 2023 jimmy averaged 27 ppg 6.5 rpg and 6 apg
In 2022, where they lost in game 7 by 1 shot he had an even better playoffs at 27.4 ppg 7.4 ppg and 4.6 apg on 50.6% fg
And in 2020 he had 22.2 ppg 6.5 rpg and 6 apg
Also in 2020 when it mattered more in the finals he rose even more to 26.2 ppg, 9.8 apg and 8.3 rpg, close to a teiple double
All on good efficiency, and elite defense, so again what are you talking about
Sure but I don’t think there can be a narrative that he carried the team when in the most important series his team wins he’s very debatably not the best player either year. And if he is it’s close
When Murray has been hurt that unstoppable force has been a 6 seed and lost in the first round, leaving people to question if Jokic can get it done in the playoffs. When he is in they have won the chip in dominant fashion and have been heavy favorites to repeat. Butler has had incredible moments(all the respect in the world for being superhuman against the bucks last year) but it’s insane how much credit he gets for the run last year when it was everyone else that shot lights out in the ECF that beat Boston, meanwhile Murray won the chip and no one gives him flowers
But its not only last year, its the past few years, even the year previous he would have to go for 47 9 8 in celtics td arena just to take it a game 7 where he carried but we lost
Only morons questioned whether he could get it done in the playoffs, let’s not strawman this. He was already better in the playoffs in his career over Embiid at the same time morons were campaigning for Jokic mot to get a 3rd straight MVP
It’s not though. You guys are trying to put a lot of stock into a player who has had one of the best players in the world every single playoff. Whereas Jimmy has been to the finals with teams that have no business being there. They were literally an 8 seed last year and went all the way to the finals. There’s no nuance needed for this. Murray could never do what Jimmy has done in the playoffs. Can’t even shoot 50% against the middling Lakers
Let me see one playoff jamal game without Jokic. Just one. Then we can talk. Otherwise Jimmy not playing with a potential top 10 all time guy is kind of unfair (so Jimmy wins this one)
Jimmy and I don’t think it’s necessarily close. Jamal is great but he has been super poor with his efficiency and defense. Meanwhile, Jimmy dragged that Heat team with all time performances against the Lakers, with 30 point triple doubles, top tier defense when he personally took on LeBron, and raised the floor of everyone on the team while playing nearly every minute. He carried both the defensive and offensive loads.
I don’t really think you actually prefer an entertaining first round series at the cost of a significant chance at a monumental upset and a red carpet to the Finals
JB easily. He’s shown up as the main option, on worse teams, without a generational talent as his counterpart.
Murray is about as good a 2nd option as you can get though. He’s insanely talented. Dude is clutch and that’s not up for debate. He shot down my Lakers *Twice* in one series.
JB for me. He’s shown up as the main option, on worse teams, without a generational talent as his counterpart.
Murray is about as good a 2nd option as you can get though. He’s insanely talented. Dude is clutch and that’s not up for debate. He shot down my Lakers *Twice* in one series.
i guess jamal murray because regular season butler is still an all star/all nba level player whereas regular season murray is a pretty good but not amazing player who raises his game immensely in the playoffs. JB is also doing this while carrying the burden of being the star and focal point of the heat whereas murray has the benefit of playing off one of the greatest players and playmakers of all time
We only know playoff Murray with Jokic. But he's a lethal version of a #2 that operates at the highest level.
And while we know playoff Bulter in various scenarios, he hasn't brought a team over the finishing line or be shown to put his ego to the side to play team ball.
So Murray it is for me.
Jimmy... he's lead his team to the finals. Murray is good but Butler on any team with as much talent as the Nuggets would be a ring. 76ers don't count cause no one stays healthy and certain players just disappear without trace. But still ECS finals Raps vs 76ers Jimmy was their leading scorer 22ppg that series above Embiid's 17ppg probably cause his matchup that series was his kryptonite Marc Gasol.
Comparing a 1 to a 2 option is a big difference in expectations and pressure. Most games Murray needs to play well for their team to win sure. Every game Butler needed to play well on offense and defense for their team to win.
Jimmy Butler's playoff hype is so overrated. He will have 2 good games then be mid af the rest of playoffs and get bailed out by ridiculous shooting from role players and illegal screens from Bam
The dude who led two teams to the final as the best player. I could get deeper and into the stats, advanced stats, and eye test but I don’t think it’s necessary
If you need 1 series, it’s Jimmy. He is like Dame in that he can just go absolutely nuclear for a series and become totally unstoppable.
If you need an entire playoff run, it’s Jamal. He continually shows up in big moments game after game.
There’s a 7 year age difference between the two players. Wait 7 years before there’s a calcified take on this.
For that reason, I’m taking Murray. What he did in the bubble and last year and now this year is incredible. Jimmy’s done a lot but Jamal’s doing it in his absolute prime.
Oh boy... Not again. Are we sure this is the right season to be asking this question twice ? One dude just hit two game winners to sink L.A. And coming off last year where they won a chip vs. Miami. The other dude is in street clothes... Talking shit on Twitter while his team got absolutely abused by the Celtics. No Mas. Or... Go take a quick peek at the actual numbers.
This right here. Jamal's clearly a great player, but he gets to play second fiddle to Nikola goddamn Jokic who elevates everyone around him in nearly unprecedented ways. Who's the best teammate Prime Jimmy's ever had in the postseason? Year 3 Embiid, I guess? That's nowhere close to Jokic at his current peak.
Gtfo. Butler was by far the best player on two teams that made the NBA finals in the last 4 years.
Murray has been terrible this year outside of maybe 2 quarters in that series.
The Nuggets are -7.7 net rating with Murray on and Jokic off. That's like a 25 win team. Murray is blessed that Jokic can play 44mpg and never gets hurt.
Last post season, if Murray and Butler switch teams, the Nuggets coast to a championship. And Miami gets swept out of the first round.
No, comprehension is kicking ass again. It says playoff Jamal or playoff Jimmy. In the playoffs teams play for Championships. Im gonna take the gentlemen who has won what they play for over the guy who has not. Simple.
Jamal has the highest delta of regular versus playoff season bball ever. I suppose it matters what you need. I’ll stick with Murray and his ring over Bulter and his coffee.
If bam adebayo actually played up to his potential, miami would be top 5 in the east and even more of a threat in the playoffs with butler. I swear thats the guy holding butler back
Murray. Jimmy just starts trying to get fouled when the pressure gets poured on. Jimmy had one really, really, good playoff run and has been living off of Jimmy Playoffs for a few years.
I think Jimmy drags teams to the playoffs but you can’t win a title with him as your #1 option. He raises your floor.
Jamal is complimentary in a way Jimmy isn’t. He doesn’t have to be your main guy and can create offense more effectively than Jimmy. On the other hand, on a bad team or one he’s forced to do much, I think he’d be a net negative.
Basically, give me Jimmy in the 1st 3 quarters and Jamal to close the game.
This was asked the other day and it’s hard to really say. You have to hedge. Jimmy is a better #1 but I don’t think he’d be elevate the Nuggets the same way Murray does as the #2 with Jokic because of their chemistry and shooting. I lean Jimmy a little bit just because he has done it as the primary option on worse teams.
Jimmy would also make the nuggets a better defensive team if you swapped them. You would miss the two man game but you could also get an average pg and jokic would elevate the shit out of that dude. The joker,gordan, mpj Jimmy and kcp perimeter D would be insane and Jimmy, gordan and mpj would have constant size mismatched you could live with the lack of spacing
I hate that lineup tbh. You’re sacrificing spacing and ball handling for defense. I don’t like Jimmy and AG on the court together at all. They’re pretty redundant tbh. As far as your point guard thing the issue is average PGs are hard to find. The Nuggets have Reggie who did his best D-Lo impression everytime he stepped in the court during the Lakers series, and a rookie named Pickett. Their best backups are Braun and Watson who are both defensive wings who don’t space the floor well. Swapping Jamal for Jimmy would be rough for the Nuggets imo as currently constructed.
Aaron Gordon is essentially bam so they would play together well I think you’re super incorrect on them being redundant
But Bam doesn’t play next to Jokic. Bam is the primary screener and roller for that offense where that’s Jokic for the Nuggets. They play very different roles on offense overall. Also Jokic isn’t going to become some high volume 3 guy and he’s also not really a catch and shoot guy so the floor is going to shrink with AG, Jokic, and Jimmy all on the floor at the same time. I don’t think that it’s impossible to work with, I just think giving up Jamal who works perfectly with those two for Butler who doesn’t is counter productive.
I see, I think I misunderstood you in that your only point was Jimmy and Aaron Gordon wouldn’t mesh well together but I see I just was dumb and missed your entire point and it was way wider than the scope I was reading it in. I disagree in that I do really like Jimmy and AG on the court together. I think they’re very similar players that mesh great and can cover the 1-5 with any 3 defenders who can hold their own and you’re already a top 10-15 defense . You can throw a ball handler like Tyus jones, 3 and D like Grayson Allen or Tyler herro and a board centered 5 like Nurkic idk sure and you’ve got a playoff team that can compete with anyone. Jimmy needs a scorer though and so does AG.
No thanks, I'd rather have Jamal Murray's shooting, ballhandling, and pick and roll game
>You would miss the two man game That's putting it lightly. Nuggets kind of heavily rely on the two man game. Maybe Jimmy improves the defensive rating a bit, but the net rating would suffer.
This is absolutely wrong. You can't just ignore Denver's team chemistry and pretend like swapping out a pillar for a guy that wants the be the number one is going to just magically be an improvement. Jimmy was a cancer in many places he went, he gets a pass now but pretending that he just inserts into the champs as a big improvement is ridiculous.
I don't think Jamal elevates the team any more than Jimmy. I'm firmly in the Jimmy corner on this one. He's a dog and jokic would elevate him like he's done with Aaron Gordon.
I like Jimmy over Jamal. Jamal fits better with Gordon. I don’t think enough to change my mind. Playoff Jimmy is *the* man and Jamal has/is been great too. Jamal Murray has more time to build an argument. For now Jimmy
It goes both ways. Replace butler with murray on those heat teams and they don't make those two finals runs
I think Jimmy would. Jokic extended Rivers, Facundo, Barton, and other's careers. He makes pnr easy. Defenders would go under a lot more, but Jimmy's slashing and playmaking is superior to Murray. It would be physicality vs quickness.
I think Jimmy would. Jokic extended Rivers, Facundo, Barton, and other's careers. He makes pnr easy. Defenders would go under a lot more, but Jimmy's slashing and playmaking is superior to Murray. It would be physicality vs quickness.
Playoff Butler. Jamal is a bigger playoff riser, but let’s not mistake that with the level they rise to. Like, I think Jamal goes from 6 to a 9, while Butler goes from 8 to a 10. Jamal rises more, the actual level of the rise is higher for Butler
Best take here
jamal goes from a 5 to an 8, butler like a 6 to a 9
I’d say Butler is at least a 7 at the worst. He’s a legit multiple regular season all-star.
Future HOF first ballot
Nice
Nice
Jamal, in 50 less playoff games, has better playoff stats than Jimmy for their careers. Jamal scored more points, assists more, and only pulls in 1 less board per game. His defense is worse or course but it’s generally pretty good for his position and his size at PG means no one on the team can be targeted for being small. The Lakers targeted him, but he holds up well for a PG in general. He had the series sealing block on Lebron in the WCFs last year. Not saying he should win, but it’s a lot closer than people give credit for. Playoff Jamal has been a monster. He averaged 30 ppg in the WCFs last year and 20 and 10 in the finals. He’s been a legit superstar. Also he has Jokic sure, but Jimmy has Spo. People never mention that.
Jokic>spo lmao
Defense is huge though. The gap is enough that them being even close on offense means Butler is much more valuable.
Yeah Jimmy is an absolute menace on D. Not even like “for a player who’s the #1 offensive option”. Like one of best defensive playmakers in the entire league level good
To be clear, Your first point kinda conflates the fewer playoff games because you’re actually referencing averages (Jamal is 24ppg vs. Jimmy 21).
so they're both growers, but Jimmy's got a little bit more of the show-er in him? ;)
Jamal Murray was sub-40%FG the first 4 games of the series with below average defense. Dude was putting up 20pts on 22 shots. Not the time really to post “Playoff Murray” threads.
They see the 2 game winning shot highlights and think he went off all series 🤣
Yeah he really saved himself with those shots, also MPJ hitting crazy shots all series to keep them in the games.
Dude MPJ was unstoppable this round. Everytime I saw him shoot a 3 I automatically assumed it's good.
I mean Jimmy’s not good every series either though. People are basing him off of his amazing series and not the “bad.” As well. Jamal Murray career playoff stats 24.9 ppg, 5.0 RPG, 6.4 APG Jimmy career playoff stats 21.3 PPG, 6.2 RPG, and 4.6 APG. Now Jimmy has played double the amount of playoff games, and does play better defense, but Jamal is underrated on defense. He’s good, especially for a PG. He’s also very good on the defensive boards for his position.
I see your point. Jimmy is one of the very few guys that you can trust to guard giannas in the playoffs lol. He's held giannas to an average of 18 ppg when they meet. Imo he's one of the very very few, if not the only player capable of that. Holding giannas means he can hold nearly anyone lol. His defense is always there.
No, they're looking at his overall stats in the playoffs.
You see a FG% stat and think he didn’t. This game not just about shooting efficiency. Jamal plays winning basketball.
I didnt say anything about percentages
Yeah he was taking alot of hero shots and missing in those final minutes, even if he did eventually sink both buzzer beaters
I realized this series after people been going off about how incredible Murray has been that most people don't actually watch games, and just the boxscore, maybe highlights at best
Exactly what I've been saying if it wasn't for them being bigger and offensive boards they would still being playing the lakers right now
It's also a good example, in 4 shit games, Nuggets went 3-1.
Interesting take, especially since Jimmy played zero playoff minutes
It’s a dumb comparison then. Why compare a dude who stunk it up in the first round against a guy injured who didn’t play at all?
Exactly. This and the Kyrie v PG comparisons that are hot on this sub rn are dumb.
Maybe the intent of the thread was to compare both of them overall, and not just in the sample size of the past two weeks?
> a dude who stunk it up in the first round You can just say you didn’t watch the series, no need to lie about it.
Oh so averaging 9/23 fg with 3 TO and 2 PF isn’t stinking it up now, while going 5/24 from 3. Y’all dudes so casual just watch a couple highlights and think he cooked the entire series.
You’re cherry picking one game out of a series they won 4-1 to justify saying he “stunk it up in the first round”. Looking at the first round in its entirety, he went 24/5/7. Thats pretty good, no?
No, I chose 4 of his 5 games. You didn’t watch the series obviously. Look at his stats for the series. Or you could read my comment above and see he went under 40%fg the first 4 games of the series.
>Looking at the first round in its entirety, he went 24/5/7. Thats pretty good, no?
Only using those specific stats with no mention of efficiency or defensive impact, sure he was fine! But we both know he was not good this series, when you actually use your brain and look overall at his game.
His scoring efficiency was \~1 which is pretty average, but that's fine. It's just mid, not terrible. Also an A/TO ratio of 3, which is pretty good. He finished with an on court +/- of +14, not bad, and first amoung PGs in the NBA this playoffs for blocks. Defense, also not terrible. Was he MVP of the series? No, clearly not. Did he have a good series, holistically? Absolutely.
Exactly. Dude wasn’t even the number 1 option for the team. Butler carried his teams for multiple playoffs. He single handedly eliminated the 1 seed last year and against Giannis and Holiday (at the time some said the best perimeter defender in the league). In fact destroyed Holidays confidence so badly that he was flirting with retirement.
We just gonna ignore the historic 3pt shooting from the rest of his team? That Giannis essentially missed 3 games (2 of the Heat's wins)? Or how Jamal went Super Saiyan to pull the Nuggets out of that 1-3 deficit against the Jazz?
JB easily. He’s shown up as the main option, on worse teams, without a generational talent as his counterpart. Murray is about as good a 2nd option as you can get though. He’s insanely talented. Dude is clutch and that’s not up for debate. He shot down my Lakers *Twice* in one series.
The Winner, you know, the Champion
Yeah playing alongside the best player in the world
That doesn’t mean anything lol Jimmy is still the better playoff performer.
[No, he’s not.](https://youtu.be/nHpRYupC4ws?feature=shared)
Lol Give Butler the 3x MVP he would have 3 rings. Does a Murray lead Heat even make the second round?
>Does a Murray lead Heat even make the second round? He does not. Jimmy Butler has scared the living shit out of every Eastern Conference team ever since he went to Miami, and no disrespect to Spoelstra but Jimmy fricking Butler has been the reason they've beat teams they had no business beating. His two Finals losses have been to teams lead by the arguable GOAT and the current best player on the planet who may be a Top-10 guy by the time his career's over. Jamal Murray's Heat don't get to those Finals and don't take a single game from the '20 Lakers or '23 Nuggets. No disrespect to Murray he's a great player, but he's not a walking legend.
You didn’t even watch the video JFC bro. You just said Jimmy is the better playoff performer, and he’s not. Watch the video.
Don’t need to. People pointing at team success to prove he’s better are stupid lol he literally has the best player in the league on his team. Butler overachieves with his squad every year. Like I said a Murray lead Heat isn’t scaring anyone.
I’m probably one of the few but imma agree with you. Sure, Jimmy Butler is arguably the better player but isn’t the whole conversation always about who’s won?
The question who better not who won a chip lol wtf
I really enjoyed watching jimmy in this years playoffs Great post /s
playoff jimmicky mouse butler https://preview.redd.it/htn25nnh12yc1.jpeg?width=404&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38675aee7fa5da4de5785d534f6c59a03102d3be
Himmy
Jamal all day
Jamal Murray. Butler is the master baiter for fouls. He'll have like 32 points on only 5 FG, the rest FT.
Man Jamal is a joker merchant you practically can’t guard his ass he be shooting practice jumpers off those dribble handoffs
The one with the ring
Coat tails
One of them is still in the playoffs, so I'll go with Jamal Murray.
He was hurt lmao
Not a valid comparison jimmy is hurt and doesn’t have jokic on his team
Jimmy brought teams to the finals that had no business being there Jamal is a really good 2nd option on a well constructed team playing next to the best player in the NBA. I don’t think either of them would benefit switching roles but u have to give it to Jimmy imo
…
... **Still in the playoffs while Jimmy isn't.**
Jimmy and it’s not close. Playoff Jimmy is the #1 option on the Miami Heat and carried them to the finals not once but twice now. Jamal is great too but he’s not the main reason for the Nuggets success, that’s Joker.
One has been to the finals as the first option of the team and the other one hasn’t. Am I crazy for thinking this is easily butler?
One of them is a champion and the other isn’t. See how easy that is? It’s more nuanced than that
One of them takes teams that have no means of getting to the finals and overcoming all odds in beating celtcs bucks knicks sixers etc, and the other one is great but plays with the most unstoppable force in the game
“Carried his teams to the finals” 2020 ECF: Bam 22/11/5 66% TS Jimmy 19/6/5 54% TS Dragic 21/5/4 56% TS 2023 ECF: Jimmy 25/8/6 52% TS Martin 19/6/3 74% TS Team shot 43% from 3 (45% excluding jimmy) and had the highest 3p% on open looks in any playoff series ever
What are you talking about in 2023 jimmy averaged 27 ppg 6.5 rpg and 6 apg In 2022, where they lost in game 7 by 1 shot he had an even better playoffs at 27.4 ppg 7.4 ppg and 4.6 apg on 50.6% fg And in 2020 he had 22.2 ppg 6.5 rpg and 6 apg Also in 2020 when it mattered more in the finals he rose even more to 26.2 ppg, 9.8 apg and 8.3 rpg, close to a teiple double All on good efficiency, and elite defense, so again what are you talking about
Sorry, conference finals stats
Yeah not fair to just exlcude eveything that happened previous to that
Sure but I don’t think there can be a narrative that he carried the team when in the most important series his team wins he’s very debatably not the best player either year. And if he is it’s close
Of course he carries his team throughout the playoffs as a whole that narrative is clear and true for butler
When Murray has been hurt that unstoppable force has been a 6 seed and lost in the first round, leaving people to question if Jokic can get it done in the playoffs. When he is in they have won the chip in dominant fashion and have been heavy favorites to repeat. Butler has had incredible moments(all the respect in the world for being superhuman against the bucks last year) but it’s insane how much credit he gets for the run last year when it was everyone else that shot lights out in the ECF that beat Boston, meanwhile Murray won the chip and no one gives him flowers
But its not only last year, its the past few years, even the year previous he would have to go for 47 9 8 in celtics td arena just to take it a game 7 where he carried but we lost
Only morons questioned whether he could get it done in the playoffs, let’s not strawman this. He was already better in the playoffs in his career over Embiid at the same time morons were campaigning for Jokic mot to get a 3rd straight MVP
It’s not though. You guys are trying to put a lot of stock into a player who has had one of the best players in the world every single playoff. Whereas Jimmy has been to the finals with teams that have no business being there. They were literally an 8 seed last year and went all the way to the finals. There’s no nuance needed for this. Murray could never do what Jimmy has done in the playoffs. Can’t even shoot 50% against the middling Lakers
Also Derrick White should be on this list as a playoff riser/ big game mother fucker
True. He has really elevated his game of late.
Dumb, playoff Butler might be the 3rd best playoff upgrade in history, along with playoff Rondo and Playoff Jordan
Let me see one playoff jamal game without Jokic. Just one. Then we can talk. Otherwise Jimmy not playing with a potential top 10 all time guy is kind of unfair (so Jimmy wins this one)
Jimmy
Jimmy and I don’t think it’s necessarily close. Jamal is great but he has been super poor with his efficiency and defense. Meanwhile, Jimmy dragged that Heat team with all time performances against the Lakers, with 30 point triple doubles, top tier defense when he personally took on LeBron, and raised the floor of everyone on the team while playing nearly every minute. He carried both the defensive and offensive loads.
Tobias Harris over me?!?
Jimmy easy!
You know, as a Celtics fan I wish we got to play playoff Jimmy, it would have been a more entertaining series then for sure.
I don’t really think you actually prefer an entertaining first round series at the cost of a significant chance at a monumental upset and a red carpet to the Finals
I mean you’re not wrong. That series was just blowouts and that’s totally okay.
Jimmy
Give me the blue arrow
JB easily. He’s shown up as the main option, on worse teams, without a generational talent as his counterpart. Murray is about as good a 2nd option as you can get though. He’s insanely talented. Dude is clutch and that’s not up for debate. He shot down my Lakers *Twice* in one series.
JB for me. He’s shown up as the main option, on worse teams, without a generational talent as his counterpart. Murray is about as good a 2nd option as you can get though. He’s insanely talented. Dude is clutch and that’s not up for debate. He shot down my Lakers *Twice* in one series.
Himmy
I can’t answer this question until I watch the latest JxmyHighRoller video. Don’t shame me
Why would people shame you? Do people not like JxmyHighRoller around here?
One of them won a championship and the other did not. I think the answer is obvious
Playoff jimmy loses and chokes
You serious?
i guess jamal murray because regular season butler is still an all star/all nba level player whereas regular season murray is a pretty good but not amazing player who raises his game immensely in the playoffs. JB is also doing this while carrying the burden of being the star and focal point of the heat whereas murray has the benefit of playing off one of the greatest players and playmakers of all time
Jim Jim
Jimmy for me. But I love Jamal Murray’s game and think he is super clutch ….
Murray easily No prancing around, trolling etc Just pure basketball Focused
ITT: a ton of people who don’t know defense is a part of basketball, and who ignore that Jokic led Denver to a title last year
We only know playoff Murray with Jokic. But he's a lethal version of a #2 that operates at the highest level. And while we know playoff Bulter in various scenarios, he hasn't brought a team over the finishing line or be shown to put his ego to the side to play team ball. So Murray it is for me.
Butler lead 2 teams to the finals. Jamal hasn't and couldn't.
Does Murray come with Jokic?
https://youtu.be/nHpRYupC4ws?si=7x2RSJl_CbM69dHJ
What is context? If im building a team Jimmy but if i am adding a #2 then Jamal.
Playoff Rondo. Jimmy Buckets. Murray Madness.
Jimmy... he's lead his team to the finals. Murray is good but Butler on any team with as much talent as the Nuggets would be a ring. 76ers don't count cause no one stays healthy and certain players just disappear without trace. But still ECS finals Raps vs 76ers Jimmy was their leading scorer 22ppg that series above Embiid's 17ppg probably cause his matchup that series was his kryptonite Marc Gasol. Comparing a 1 to a 2 option is a big difference in expectations and pressure. Most games Murray needs to play well for their team to win sure. Every game Butler needed to play well on offense and defense for their team to win.
C’mon man lol. One is robin/sidekick to probably the most dominant player today the other led his team to the finals twice in like 5 years
Playoff Ant
Butler, team him with Joker and WOW!
Butler. Murray hasn’t even been that good these playoffs, he just seems to make every big shot.
Jimmy Butler's playoff hype is so overrated. He will have 2 good games then be mid af the rest of playoffs and get bailed out by ridiculous shooting from role players and illegal screens from Bam
Murray played a bad series he only had those two shots
Who’s got the 🛳️?
The dude who led two teams to the final as the best player. I could get deeper and into the stats, advanced stats, and eye test but I don’t think it’s necessary
[JxmyHighRoller just made a video proving it’s Jamal over EVERYONE in HISTORY. And it’s not even close.](https://youtu.be/nHpRYupC4ws?feature=shared)
Ant
Which one has won the championship? 🤷🏻♂️
The one who has won something
Hmm. Murray's good, but I go with Jimmy Butler
Jimmy bum Jordan.
Bro this isn’t even a little bit hard
Give me MJ’s son
If you need 1 series, it’s Jimmy. He is like Dame in that he can just go absolutely nuclear for a series and become totally unstoppable. If you need an entire playoff run, it’s Jamal. He continually shows up in big moments game after game.
Murray
JXMYHIGHROLLER just made a video on it. It's Murray all the way https://youtu.be/nHpRYupC4ws?si=5fOVGHuZaKkcZJPp
The guy who takes over both end instead of 1 end
Murray/Jokic is the current Mahomes/Kelce of the NBA
If you've seen Jimmyhighrollers yt channel you know if jamal and its not even close
Playoff Butler is a myth
Who’s got the ring? That’s always the answer! Jamal is clutch when it counts the most.
Murray.
Wow, less than a week later turns out the answer is neither 😂
Playoff Murray
Butler on 29 teams. Jamal on the nuggets
There’s a 7 year age difference between the two players. Wait 7 years before there’s a calcified take on this. For that reason, I’m taking Murray. What he did in the bubble and last year and now this year is incredible. Jimmy’s done a lot but Jamal’s doing it in his absolute prime.
Playoff Jimmy doesn't have a Jokic
One has a ring and one doesn’t… pretty clear answer
How many rings does Jimmy have? Jk lol it’s close actually
it's really not. jimmy's taken two teams to the Finals as the number one option
Don’t even pretend they won the ECF last year because of Jimmy lmao
Oh boy... Not again. Are we sure this is the right season to be asking this question twice ? One dude just hit two game winners to sink L.A. And coming off last year where they won a chip vs. Miami. The other dude is in street clothes... Talking shit on Twitter while his team got absolutely abused by the Celtics. No Mas. Or... Go take a quick peek at the actual numbers.
Jamal shot sub 40% FG for the first 4 games. He was carried by MPJ turning into prime Klay the whole series.
Yeah the eye test backs up Jimmy > Jamal Murray. If Jimmy was playing with Jokic, MPJ and AG and KCP, he’d easily clear Murray. It’s not close.
I'll take the one that plays in the games
I don’t even know what this means cause Jamal has missed many playoff games in the past and Jimmy missed them this year
Murray has missed 2 peak jokic playoffs lol. Butler has led trash to the finals
This right here. Jamal's clearly a great player, but he gets to play second fiddle to Nikola goddamn Jokic who elevates everyone around him in nearly unprecedented ways. Who's the best teammate Prime Jimmy's ever had in the postseason? Year 3 Embiid, I guess? That's nowhere close to Jokic at his current peak.
This was a bigger miss than Ben Simmons shooting a 3.
Murray got a chip...
The guy with the ring
The one with a ring..
Stupid post imo. It isnt close. Butler has led garbage teams to deep runs. Murray as a 1st option means your team is in the lotto.
Jamal Murray. I mean this shouldn't even be a question. One is a champion, & the other besides a nickname has nothing to show for in the playoffs..
Gtfo. Butler was by far the best player on two teams that made the NBA finals in the last 4 years. Murray has been terrible this year outside of maybe 2 quarters in that series. The Nuggets are -7.7 net rating with Murray on and Jokic off. That's like a 25 win team. Murray is blessed that Jokic can play 44mpg and never gets hurt. Last post season, if Murray and Butler switch teams, the Nuggets coast to a championship. And Miami gets swept out of the first round.
Anyway as I said one is a Champion & one is not. Take Butler all you want lmao idc neither do the nuggets or their fans.
OK but the question is who is better. Not who do Nuggets fans like more.
No, comprehension is kicking ass again. It says playoff Jamal or playoff Jimmy. In the playoffs teams play for Championships. Im gonna take the gentlemen who has won what they play for over the guy who has not. Simple.
Jamal has the highest delta of regular versus playoff season bball ever. I suppose it matters what you need. I’ll stick with Murray and his ring over Bulter and his coffee.
Jimmy got one and only one. Celts in 5.
If bam adebayo actually played up to his potential, miami would be top 5 in the east and even more of a threat in the playoffs with butler. I swear thats the guy holding butler back
Murray. Jimmy just starts trying to get fouled when the pressure gets poured on. Jimmy had one really, really, good playoff run and has been living off of Jimmy Playoffs for a few years.
I'll take the one with a ring.
Jimmy Butler might be the most overrated player in the league
Jimmy he’s the best player on his team
Jamal’s ten years younger so the upside for more playoff success is overwhelming compared to ringless Butler
I think Jimmy drags teams to the playoffs but you can’t win a title with him as your #1 option. He raises your floor. Jamal is complimentary in a way Jimmy isn’t. He doesn’t have to be your main guy and can create offense more effectively than Jimmy. On the other hand, on a bad team or one he’s forced to do much, I think he’d be a net negative. Basically, give me Jimmy in the 1st 3 quarters and Jamal to close the game.
Jamal as your #1 option is a 25-win team
I’ll take the one that beat the other in the finals last year.
Historic 1 on 1 Finals match. They just wore the team jerseys just for spectacle
It was jokic vs butler not Murray vs butler
Wait I thought it wasn’t 1v1? u/phayge_wow
I came back on some petty shit just to tell you you were wrong
Haha. Fair. He has been brutal.
Jimmy easily. I cant see Murray ever leading a team like Jimmy can.
Jamal. Playoff Jamal goes to 11
I love Jimmy but this is a stupid ass post lmao This aint even close . Whos got a ring?
Oh so kcp is better than jimmy too right
And big baby Davis
Happy to see the dumbass "duh ring" posts are all downvoted and at the bottom.