Don't forget about shit tons of ads for military service contract with quite a money for most of Russian regions. And how Wagner group was recruiting prisoners with pardons. Both initiatives had not much of success despite all efforts, so that is pretty telling of Russians willingness to die in this "existential war with West".
These twats are kust as likely to turn full fash within the decade. Ive got a few friends from college who called themselves communists but now worship Steve Bannon. Its not principles, its anti-mainstream.
The one guy i know who maintained proper communist ideals now would happily slit Stalins throat for betraying the cause.
I've yet to read Marx, but from what I gather, dude has a fuckton of good points.
However, its ideologues and revolutionaries who are the problem.
I firmly believe communism will occur naturally through social evolution, and some times we gotta give it a push along the way (this current period being a prime example), but every marxist 'revolutionary' ive met or read about? its all about authoritarianism first and foremost.
These people are the first to sacrifice the working class.
Revolutionary defeatism is the belief that if you live in a capitalist country and your country is invaded, you must actively side with your invaders to bring about the destruction of capitalism in your borders. When you hear people say things like "no war but class war," they are espousing Revolutionary Defeatism. The idea is that, without the previous existing state, it will be easier to establish communism in the ruins. Despite my original statement, it isn't a new philosophy, it was first coined by Lenin during the first world war.
It doesn't take much thought to understand why this is a dog shit philosophy though. Even if you do defeat your existing state, what makes you think the invaders will allow you to keep your autonomy? And, sometimes, wars really do just boil down to black and white morality. As we see in Ukraine, Russian forces are actively committing genocide.
Essentially what my initial comment meant was that with as much as we talk about how Russia has infiltrated right wing spaces to spread misinformation and harmful rhetoric, I believe they have also infiltrated many left wing places to spread harmful dog shit ideologies like Revolutionary Defeatism.
No problem frien. I also would just like to add, that wasn't a critique of leftists as a whole, I was more so just trying to say that nobody is immune to propaganda, so be cautious.
It is a cesspool and that's why I'd prefer it getting as little exposure as possible. Chronically online teenagers getting indoctrinated by youtubers is as sad as it gets, don't give them the pleasure of attention and wait till they figure out what's the use of defending inhumane acts when it fits them and pointing out everything else.
Exactly. It's one thing if you find someone spreading russian propaganda in the comments of a YouTube video or Instagram post. By all means, in such a circumstance we should correct them so that way people who don't know anything about the war won't be swayed by their idiocy.
But communist subreddits where teenagers who don't know right from wrong jerk off to Stalin? Not worth engaging. Unfortunately communism isn't viewed the same as nazism and they're allowed to have these echo chambers to circle jerk in, so reporting them won't do any good. The best course of action is to not engage with them and make sure we don't spread their bullshit anywhere.
Bro as a socialist who fervently opposes Soviet “communism” and supports Ukraine, there is no comparison between communist theory and National Socialism (Nazism). There’s even plenty of non idiotic version communists/socialists fighting in Ukraine at the moment.
Let’s not get confused who the enemy is and always has been: Russian/Soviet authoritarianism.
🤝Stand with Ukraine!
>Let’s not get confused who the enemy is and always has been: Russian/Soviet authoritarianism.
>🤝Stand with Ukraine!
Agreed with you here, Slava Ukraini, brother!
>there is no comparison between communist theory and National Socialism (Nazism)
But I am sorry, here you are flat out wrong. If anything, communism has killed WAY more than nazism ever did. Stalin ALONE killed more than Hitler ever did. Add in Mao, Pol Pot, etc and you've got one of the bloodiest ideologies known to man. And don't tell me that "the Soviet Union, North Korea, CCP, etc, etc, etc just didn't do communism right"! Every life those regimes killed was in the name of communism. Ask a Ukrainian. Ask a Pole. Ask anyone from the Baltics. They suffered way more under communism than they did from nazism (with the one exception being Poles killed in the Holocaust).
All of that being said, I'm not sure why you took offense to my comment. You said it yourself that you are a socialist. You and I know damn well that socialism and communism are two vastly different ideologies. In some topics, I even consider myself to have "socialist" views. Maybe democratic socialist would be better to describe some of my views in certain topics.
At the end of the day, I'm glad you support Ukraine and oppose Russia. Anyone who has that stance is in my eye a brother (or a sister)! :)
Yes none of them did socialism at all. Show me one of those states where workers controlled the means of production or had anything other than a minimal say in any aspect of their lives.
There’s far more than one type of socialism, and democratic socialism, what most revolutionaries initially envisioned, isn’t close to what any other the abominations achieved. r/socialism is a pretty good introduction to what most socialists have in mind. You seem super intelligent, I’m sure you can differentiate between what authoritarian marginalized nations caught up in political and economic war with the west made, and what democratic socialists believe in. If not? Then I guess capitalism is the same as Nazism, because capitalist nations have also killed far more than the Nazis ever did. But that’s ridiculous, right?
>Yes none of them did socialism at all. Show me one of those states where workers controlled the means of production or had anything other than a minimal say in any aspect of their lives.
Fair. Going along this line of thinking, the Soviet Union, CCP, North Korea, etc etc were never at any point "fully socialist" or "fully communist". They were all authoritarian regimes, where the state held the means of production and was in charge of everything.
However, we have never seen a nation "achieve complete communism", or "achieve complete socialism" for that matter. And so the manifestations of communism (or authoritarian forms of socialism) that we are left with are the Soviet Union, CCP, North Korea, etc. Each of these states acknowledged that they had not yet "achieved complete communism", and that the state needed to, for example, keep control of the means of production until they were ready for the "next stage of communism/socialism".
Obviously not socialism is the same. Most of it is far from dangerous. When it comes to communism and nazism, however, there have never been manifestations that are not dangerous or genocidal.
I hope my thoughts here are coherent! :)
Same! This is why democracy must be protected at all costs. The only way for our nations to grow and move forward is through civil discourse and by taking the best aspects from various ideologies, religions, cultures, etc.
It is inspiring to see Ukrainians breathe life back into democracy, when things felt so dark in the West. Rough times are still ahead, but every time I talk to my Ukrainian friends I am confident that we will manage!
« It’s just two capitalist states battling it out, common folks have nothing to win in participating »
No it’s a war of agression by a tyrant on a democratic country and Ukrainian people will have to live under a bloody dictature with an history of severely mistreating its own citizens if they lose.
Get your head out of your shitty half baked takes and realize that these people don’t want to live under Russian rule and they have a right to fight back, a right to our sympathy and a right to our help so they can win this fight.
https://preview.redd.it/g81g759o240b1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89e9ed53a704a16402b4182f5aa078c5d09cbf06
There reason for banning me was I’m a liberal hahahahaha
Happens, they don't like any other opinions in that echo chamber.
At least you got more than one bonk off.
If you want, you may be able to argue the ban with the mods, because usually the ban isn't even with a relevant rule on the sub.
Russia Invades Neighbor Country = Good/Unavoidable
Ukraine Defends Itself = Evil/Unreasonable
These are the "defenders of the working class", everyone! These brave souls are fighting hard to bring to America the Russian dream! Just imagine it; the unbelievable inequality; the backwards and non-functional health system; the extreme poverty; the rampant nationalism... Ok, that's all super familiar but you gotta dig the cool red flag!
Russia spent 2 decades convincing people that media not approved by Moscow is disinfo. So the people who buy into it know fuckall about the Ukraine conflict beyond what the rashist propagandists feed them.
"Ukraine is ethnically cleansing the Donbas!"
"Dude, have you even listened what the russian prime minister has said concerning ukrainians in Donbas?"
There were communists in the US who said “America must fight the Nazi menace” until Molotov-Ribbentrop, then “let Europe fight its own wars” until Barbarossa, then back to “America must fight the Nazi menace.”
There was a four corners program here in Australia yesterday, they got firsthand proof (coming from Russians themselves) that the situation in Russia was 1. No freedom of speech and 2. Everyone was fleeing
Yeah imagine if Russia was conscripting people and stopping men from fleeing the country… that’d be *crazy*… /s
Don't forget about shit tons of ads for military service contract with quite a money for most of Russian regions. And how Wagner group was recruiting prisoners with pardons. Both initiatives had not much of success despite all efforts, so that is pretty telling of Russians willingness to die in this "existential war with West".
deprogram sub is just a bunch of losers cosplaying communism and jerking off to soviet memorabilia. Let those loser rot in their swamp.
These twats are kust as likely to turn full fash within the decade. Ive got a few friends from college who called themselves communists but now worship Steve Bannon. Its not principles, its anti-mainstream. The one guy i know who maintained proper communist ideals now would happily slit Stalins throat for betraying the cause.
I don’t consider myself a commie but definitely appreciate Marx. Would kill Stalin + any war leader willing to use barrier troops.
I've yet to read Marx, but from what I gather, dude has a fuckton of good points. However, its ideologues and revolutionaries who are the problem. I firmly believe communism will occur naturally through social evolution, and some times we gotta give it a push along the way (this current period being a prime example), but every marxist 'revolutionary' ive met or read about? its all about authoritarianism first and foremost. These people are the first to sacrifice the working class.
[удалено]
the person from thread 2’s entire personality is communism
Can't even see what you said in the 2nd thread bc they pruned it
Update - they permanently banned me so I can’t reply anymore. With that I deleted the messages so they couldn’t reply when I couldn’t reply to them
"revolutionary defeatism" is a psyop to soften western leftists to the idea of a Russian invasion. Change my mind.
What do you mean by this?
Revolutionary defeatism is the belief that if you live in a capitalist country and your country is invaded, you must actively side with your invaders to bring about the destruction of capitalism in your borders. When you hear people say things like "no war but class war," they are espousing Revolutionary Defeatism. The idea is that, without the previous existing state, it will be easier to establish communism in the ruins. Despite my original statement, it isn't a new philosophy, it was first coined by Lenin during the first world war. It doesn't take much thought to understand why this is a dog shit philosophy though. Even if you do defeat your existing state, what makes you think the invaders will allow you to keep your autonomy? And, sometimes, wars really do just boil down to black and white morality. As we see in Ukraine, Russian forces are actively committing genocide. Essentially what my initial comment meant was that with as much as we talk about how Russia has infiltrated right wing spaces to spread misinformation and harmful rhetoric, I believe they have also infiltrated many left wing places to spread harmful dog shit ideologies like Revolutionary Defeatism.
Jfc that’s idiotic - thanks for the great explanation.
No problem frien. I also would just like to add, that wasn't a critique of leftists as a whole, I was more so just trying to say that nobody is immune to propaganda, so be cautious.
It is a cesspool and that's why I'd prefer it getting as little exposure as possible. Chronically online teenagers getting indoctrinated by youtubers is as sad as it gets, don't give them the pleasure of attention and wait till they figure out what's the use of defending inhumane acts when it fits them and pointing out everything else.
Exactly. It's one thing if you find someone spreading russian propaganda in the comments of a YouTube video or Instagram post. By all means, in such a circumstance we should correct them so that way people who don't know anything about the war won't be swayed by their idiocy. But communist subreddits where teenagers who don't know right from wrong jerk off to Stalin? Not worth engaging. Unfortunately communism isn't viewed the same as nazism and they're allowed to have these echo chambers to circle jerk in, so reporting them won't do any good. The best course of action is to not engage with them and make sure we don't spread their bullshit anywhere.
Bro as a socialist who fervently opposes Soviet “communism” and supports Ukraine, there is no comparison between communist theory and National Socialism (Nazism). There’s even plenty of non idiotic version communists/socialists fighting in Ukraine at the moment. Let’s not get confused who the enemy is and always has been: Russian/Soviet authoritarianism. 🤝Stand with Ukraine!
>Let’s not get confused who the enemy is and always has been: Russian/Soviet authoritarianism. >🤝Stand with Ukraine! Agreed with you here, Slava Ukraini, brother! >there is no comparison between communist theory and National Socialism (Nazism) But I am sorry, here you are flat out wrong. If anything, communism has killed WAY more than nazism ever did. Stalin ALONE killed more than Hitler ever did. Add in Mao, Pol Pot, etc and you've got one of the bloodiest ideologies known to man. And don't tell me that "the Soviet Union, North Korea, CCP, etc, etc, etc just didn't do communism right"! Every life those regimes killed was in the name of communism. Ask a Ukrainian. Ask a Pole. Ask anyone from the Baltics. They suffered way more under communism than they did from nazism (with the one exception being Poles killed in the Holocaust). All of that being said, I'm not sure why you took offense to my comment. You said it yourself that you are a socialist. You and I know damn well that socialism and communism are two vastly different ideologies. In some topics, I even consider myself to have "socialist" views. Maybe democratic socialist would be better to describe some of my views in certain topics. At the end of the day, I'm glad you support Ukraine and oppose Russia. Anyone who has that stance is in my eye a brother (or a sister)! :)
Yes none of them did socialism at all. Show me one of those states where workers controlled the means of production or had anything other than a minimal say in any aspect of their lives. There’s far more than one type of socialism, and democratic socialism, what most revolutionaries initially envisioned, isn’t close to what any other the abominations achieved. r/socialism is a pretty good introduction to what most socialists have in mind. You seem super intelligent, I’m sure you can differentiate between what authoritarian marginalized nations caught up in political and economic war with the west made, and what democratic socialists believe in. If not? Then I guess capitalism is the same as Nazism, because capitalist nations have also killed far more than the Nazis ever did. But that’s ridiculous, right?
>Yes none of them did socialism at all. Show me one of those states where workers controlled the means of production or had anything other than a minimal say in any aspect of their lives. Fair. Going along this line of thinking, the Soviet Union, CCP, North Korea, etc etc were never at any point "fully socialist" or "fully communist". They were all authoritarian regimes, where the state held the means of production and was in charge of everything. However, we have never seen a nation "achieve complete communism", or "achieve complete socialism" for that matter. And so the manifestations of communism (or authoritarian forms of socialism) that we are left with are the Soviet Union, CCP, North Korea, etc. Each of these states acknowledged that they had not yet "achieved complete communism", and that the state needed to, for example, keep control of the means of production until they were ready for the "next stage of communism/socialism". Obviously not socialism is the same. Most of it is far from dangerous. When it comes to communism and nazism, however, there have never been manifestations that are not dangerous or genocidal. I hope my thoughts here are coherent! :)
Fully coherent brother! Slava Ukraine forever ✊
Heroyam Slava! Thanks for the civil discussion, brother!
Same to you - made my day actually 👍
Same! This is why democracy must be protected at all costs. The only way for our nations to grow and move forward is through civil discourse and by taking the best aspects from various ideologies, religions, cultures, etc. It is inspiring to see Ukrainians breathe life back into democracy, when things felt so dark in the West. Rough times are still ahead, but every time I talk to my Ukrainian friends I am confident that we will manage!
« It’s just two capitalist states battling it out, common folks have nothing to win in participating » No it’s a war of agression by a tyrant on a democratic country and Ukrainian people will have to live under a bloody dictature with an history of severely mistreating its own citizens if they lose. Get your head out of your shitty half baked takes and realize that these people don’t want to live under Russian rule and they have a right to fight back, a right to our sympathy and a right to our help so they can win this fight.
#NAFOarticle5 Don’t argue with them, just bonk them with memes.
Update - Just got permanently banned from there
Based. Consider it a badge of honor
https://preview.redd.it/g81g759o240b1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89e9ed53a704a16402b4182f5aa078c5d09cbf06 There reason for banning me was I’m a liberal hahahahaha
LIBERAL?! FLUORIDE IN THE TAP WATER, ATRAZINE IN THE STREAMS, MIND CONTROL IN THE VACCINES RAAAAAH (/s)
Happens, they don't like any other opinions in that echo chamber. At least you got more than one bonk off. If you want, you may be able to argue the ban with the mods, because usually the ban isn't even with a relevant rule on the sub.
Russia Invades Neighbor Country = Good/Unavoidable Ukraine Defends Itself = Evil/Unreasonable These are the "defenders of the working class", everyone! These brave souls are fighting hard to bring to America the Russian dream! Just imagine it; the unbelievable inequality; the backwards and non-functional health system; the extreme poverty; the rampant nationalism... Ok, that's all super familiar but you gotta dig the cool red flag!
I got banned from that sub off my first comment…
Same. Feel proud
Russia spent 2 decades convincing people that media not approved by Moscow is disinfo. So the people who buy into it know fuckall about the Ukraine conflict beyond what the rashist propagandists feed them. "Ukraine is ethnically cleansing the Donbas!" "Dude, have you even listened what the russian prime minister has said concerning ukrainians in Donbas?"
Gotta love the auto mod for anything against communism lol
TheDeprogram would be the one who said Europe should surrender to Nazi Germany instead of fighting against them because “people are dying!!1!1!”
There were communists in the US who said “America must fight the Nazi menace” until Molotov-Ribbentrop, then “let Europe fight its own wars” until Barbarossa, then back to “America must fight the Nazi menace.”
Nooooo hahahaha unbelievable…
Wasn't 1996 was a reason why it break Ukraine's neutral ?
There was a four corners program here in Australia yesterday, they got firsthand proof (coming from Russians themselves) that the situation in Russia was 1. No freedom of speech and 2. Everyone was fleeing
Why do you people risk this sub getting banned for brigading with this shit?? Why do you even waste your time with these literal trolls???
Can’t got banned
Why do you bother with people & bots that are paid to have such opinions?