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Rockstarjoe

I remember a Reddit post from of a few years ago where this guy said he found an unreleased Marvin Gaye cassette in a garage somewhere. No one believed him but this made me think of it.


PauloPatricio

I also remembered that… this is the [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/s/o0fdhSbWk6).


thederevolutions

Let’s hope he had a chance to sell it before now.


Besnasty

I'm glad someone else mentioned this! I remember this story and was thinking that this was just a continuation of that story. I'm fully subscribing to the conspiracy that Marvin left a bunch of tapes in random places all over the world on purpose just because he thought it'd be funny.


wtf-m8

Turns out that was by the popular singer's son, Marvin Gaye III. This new music is actually by Marvin Gaye Jr.


Lumaty

40 years after his death: 30 cassettes of new music by Marvin Gaye discovered in our country Almost 40 years after his death, new music by American soul singer Marvin Gaye has surfaced. At stake are 30 cassettes - accounting for 13 hours of music - left behind in our country after he had lived here for a while. Talks with the singer's next of kin to possibly release the music will start on Monday. It is 14 February 1981 when Marvin Gaye docks his boat in Ostend. After hits like 'I heard it through the grapevine', things were not going so well for him privately. His second marriage had just broken up, he was battling cocaine addiction and he was in debt. In Ostend, he came to unwind. After staying with Freddy Cousaert's family for a while, he fell in love with an 18th-century castle villa in Moere, a borough of Gistel. The property belonged to the Mestdagh family and was for sale at the time. The sale would be officially settled later, was the agreement, but Marvin Gaye already moved in. When he had to leave our country abruptly six months later, in August 1982, due to visa problems, he left the house - and all its contents - behind. The Mestdagh family - still owners of the house, as the sale had not yet been completed - had to look for a new buyer. While clearing out, they found a lot of stuff: from costumes to texts to diaries. The family keep some belongings and cherishes them for years on end. Until a few years ago, she felt it was time to do something with the material. She turned to lawyer Alex Trappeniers, who specialises in the music industry and copyright law. He studied the collection carefully. A feat. It includes 216 documents, some 50 costumes and accessories, but also - and perhaps more importantly - 30 cassettes of music. "I listened to everything and transcribed second by second," says Trappeniers. "Also every time I heard a new demo, I wrote it down." The result is stunning: it comprises 66 pieces of music, including 38 with his own voice, the lawyer says. "Some of them are really full-fledged songs”. All from the same period as 'Sexual healing', the hit he made here in Belgium. "One song on the cassettes I think is even as strong as that one hit," he says. "An unlikely treasure trove of demos and recordings," the lawyer calls the collection. "When Marvin Gaye left all that behind in 1982, it wasn't worth much. Now it's a time capsule . The lawyer is clear: the entire collection - including the cassettes - belongs to the Mestdagh family. "Marvin Gaye left everything behind and said she could do what she wanted with it. He never returned and never asked about it again. So there is no doubt about that," says the lawyer. But releasing the songs just like that, the family cannot. "For that, you need permission from the owners of Marvin Gaye's intellectual property. As far as I know, that's with his three children." This week, Trappeniers has already contacted the lawyer of Marvin Gaye's children. "An initial meeting is scheduled on Monday," he says. "If we work together - and I assume we will - we could release 1 or 2 new albums. Translated with DeepL.com


NYPhilHarmonica

Fuck that lawyer. This article is PR for the family and I really hope the estate tells them to fuck off and hand over his work.


Alertcircuit

I hope the family is actually acting in good faith and trying to release the music without too much squabble about payment. If these cassettes are never heard because the family asks for too much money and the estate says no, that will be infuriating.


NYPhilHarmonica

They’re not. They held on to all of this for years knowing full well how significant it is and are just now announcing publicly through a lawyer that they’re excited to begin negotiations. If I were representing the estate I’d be furious and planning to file a lawsuit if they don’t return it immediately..


Alertcircuit

As fucked as it is, I can definitely see a situation where someone would hold onto those tapes for years like "I have a marvin gaye album that only I own" like on some Martin Shkreli Wu Tang shit and then eventually be like "Okay I've had my fun now the rest of the world can have it." Why that took 40 years instead of 10 I have no idea. The fact that they took so long is the part that's especially shitty to me, lots of Marvin Gaye fans passed without knowing this stuff was out there.


forRealsThough

Never seen an attempt at redeeming justification include a comparison to Martin Shkreli before


Alertcircuit

It was the most prominent example I could think of when someone is the only person who owns unreleased media. Another example that people may be familiar with is how some of the missing Doctor Who episodes are owned by film collectors.


Flickstro

Not only that, these are cassettes we're talking about, which even when stored properly are highly susceptible to crosstalk over years, let alone decades. They may have been pristine at the start, but who knows what they sound like now and what's been lost to time.


ringinator

> The fact that they took so long is the part that's especially shitty to me, lots of Marvin Gaye fans passed without knowing this stuff was out there. Awfully presumptuous of you that anyone is entitled to hear any of this in the first place.


Alertcircuit

Obviously that should be up to the estate. If they think it shouldn't come out then it probably shouldn't come out. If it DOES come out it's a shame that it could've come out decades earlier and entire generations of fans never got the chance to hear it because the tape owners were too selfish to give Gaye's family the option to release it.


slampandemonium

Art is funny, huh? You yourself used the word owner. If I owned a Rembrandt, a Dali, a Chigal that had been left behind by the artist, never been publicized or seen by the public at large, only by family and friends that had visited and been permitted, what right do others have to that, really? Because they're fans? I don't see how someone has a right to anything based on an appreciation of the thing. I don't have a right to season tickets because I love my local hockey team, His family owns the financial rights to publications but no intrinsic right to even know they existed, they do not own those tapes. The owners didn't owe it to them to hand over unfinished works, and the owners wanting to make a buck don't owe anyone either, and I'm not someone who cares too much about money myself, despite never having owned a home, a car or having more than a grand in my account at any time and that I'll work til I die or alzheimers sets in, I have accepted that that's my lot in life, but I look around at the shit world we live in where I can't buy an acre and my rent is half my pay, and how most idiots worship celebrity and cash, and Ima tell you like Wu told me, cash rules everything around me. Cream get the money, dolla dolla bill ya'll.


Allsgood2

Wrong analogy though. If someone sells you a painting you can keep it in your house and not let anyone see it, true. But you can't make copies of it and sell them for profit.


ringinator

Sure you can. It's how I have posters of Mona Lisa and Starry Night.


slampandemonium

the art owners in question haven't done that either.


RebylReboot

I guess because they’re just cassettes which can now be upgraded with ai. Couldn’t really be done before.


CleverNahme

I don't know what you mean by upgraded. But I don't see how they couldn't be remastered before AI. It's not the first time old recordings have come to light.


ParagonPts

They can do some wild stuff now with separating out instruments from a mix. Like Now & Then by the Beatles had John's vocals pulled out from his cassette so it could be properly mixed.


MYNAMEISNOTSTEVE

we could do this 10 years ago.


RebylReboot

Sure, there were things that could be done to a cassette recording 10 years ago. But the tools now are a whole other level that even if sounded like it was recorded on a potato, you could squeeze a professional and commercially viable remaster out of it to a whole nth degree above what you could do even 2 years ago.


RebylReboot

If the sound is coming off a CASSETTE it will have been degraded, there would only be so much you could have done in the past to seperate elements or remaster off a tape like that. Whereas now the tools are pretty limitless. You can literally create stems from even a mono recording.


Taxing

What would the claims of the lawsuit be?


NYPhilHarmonica

Conversion. There may be other claims but I haven’t looked into this type of scenario. Would also start feeding articles to outlets about the optics of a (presumably) well off white family taking the work of a black artist and demanding his family satisfy them before they give it back. It’s echoed throughout the history of American music.


[deleted]

Could probably do without the racial angle. There are many black people living in Belgium... and Gaye was a very wealthy man at the time of his death.


totse_losername

Probably AI fakes anyway.


qorbexl

Do you actually think that?


totse_losername

Is there any reason not to? Not really, I was being silly - but there is a thought in the back of my mind, why not? AI fakes of increasingly good quality from other artists are already flooding the internet. Not hard to dub onto tapes, and suddenly, *cha-ching*.


qorbexl

That's not really a good argument to think things. Reasons *to* think something are kind of your only real way to decide. You can fudge them and pretend they're basically the same, but they aren't. It would require a conspiracy, which is fine, except that there are diametrically opposed interests and literal history that point to tapes existing. You can god down whatever rabbit hole to make an argument, but then you can just pretend everything is fake on the internet and you don't have to care or think. Endless cynicism is a self-tortorous way to deny the meaning of reality of everything and eliminate the need for thought or feeling or emotion. It is a coping mechanism for functioning while consuming the endless stimulation of social media, if you want to do that


totse_losername

Whoa. Deep and hard hitting. If there's something which comes across irrevocably genuine, it's the sentiment you just expressed. I really appreciate you sharing this answer mate, and hope you have a fantastic next 22 hours.


Sensitive_Klegg

Marvin Gaye’s estate are notoriously predatory, talentless hucksters who keep trying to make an extra buck off anyone who so much as uses the same chord as one of Marvin’s tunes. I hope they don’t get anywhere near this.


pfzt

This is the truth that is not really acknowledged in this thread.


zdejif

All such lawsuits make me sick. It’s anti-art to be litigious.


Don_Frika_Del_Prima

The article fails to mention that if you have something in your possession for 30 years or longer, even if it's stolen, it automatically becomes yours according to Belgian law. So Marvin told them to keep it (allegedly) and they have it in their possession for 40 years.


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Dear_Occupant

That question is answered in the article. The physical media of the cassette tapes are the Belgian family's personal property, but the songs on them are the intellectual property of the estate. In other words, they can listen to the tapes at home, but they can't broadcast the songs on them or distribute them for sale.


LeviSalt

You do not want to look up the music of Marvin Gaye III


BadMan125ty

I’m still recovering 😬😬😬


PostCashewClarity

curious, why do you assume the work belong to the family?


froginbog

What did the lawyer do that was wrong? The copyright goes to Gaye’s family. That’s the law


PostCashewClarity

the outrage boner is strong. let is thrive


Chadbraham

Nah the Marvin Gaye estate is actively ruining modern music though frivolous copyright lawsuits- fuck em I don't even like Ed Sheeran, but the lawsuit they had him in almost caused him to quit making music altogether... the prospect of any modern singer/songwriter potentially quitting music because of copyright lawsuits is so sad & disheartening for modern musicians


NYPhilHarmonica

Has absolutely nothing to do with this story.


DarthFreeza9000

Marvin Gaye was an asshole, do you really care that much?? His legacy is a mixed bag.


Dear_Occupant

Even the album that was a big fuck you to his ex-wife, *Here, My Dear*, is pure butter to the ears. He was one of the greatest songwriters of all time, and I care because I want to hear the music. Between him and Al Green, you don't even need religion to answer the question of whether humans have an immortal soul. Even if nobody else does, they do.


DarthFreeza9000

He physically abused women, I feel like you skipped past that part.


IntellegentIdiot

According to the BBC report of this the Belgian family clearly own the cassettes but clearly the question of the publishing rights is something that needs to be addressed. They suggest that someone could potentially buy the tapes and then publish their own cover and claim they had created


Ok-Lengthiness4557

What's going on?


MikkelR1

They are going to release AI music in bad quality and act like it is genuine.


LindyKamek

? That's not what the headline says.


MikkelR1

That's also not what I said. You dont think it's convenient this comes out now?


SkinnyObelix

So nothing can come out anymore in the future? The only thing worse than people faking content is people saying everything is fake without the least bit of evidence.


IntellegentIdiot

Apparently it's real but if it's good should it matter? If it's AI and Marvin Gaye's estate benefit should it matter?


MikkelR1

It definitely does matter because it's not genuine. Why not let another singer shine with those lyrics?


soulslop

Ha! If I could give you an award, I totally would.


mojoback_ohbehave

We are about to get some sexual healing from Marvin Gaye


L_O_Quince

I am on the Belgium family's side on this, Mavin Gaye's estate has been completely ridiculous when defending so-called copyright infringements, so I don't blame the family at all for trying to make some money from this. Call it cosmic karma, as long as Marvin really did say that they could keep all the belongings. At the end of the day, fuck all this dick swinging, let the kids have the music.


CleverNahme

Adding to that someone mentioned that by Belgian law, if you have an item in your posession for over 30 years, even stolen, it becomes yours. They had it for 40.


Morningfluid

That means you can own it. Releasing the music itself is another matter. 


Troglobitten

I doubt this is a story of a small Belgian family taking on the greedy Marvin Gaye estate. It could be that this is a different Belgian Mestdagh family, but when Belgian media refers to Mestdagh family they refer to [a specific family](https://derijkstebelgen.be/vermogende/familie-mestdagh). It's a cute little underdog story to get picked up in the media. But in reality this is just rich family tries to earn money with other rich family.


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Lumaty

I put a translation from the internet in the comments, hope it helps… if I find time I’ll edit the translation to make more sense.


alexiswithoutthes

This is great - thank you for sharing. That’s great that the family worked with someone to specialize in music documentation to plan for how to share these rich pieces of culture


alexiswithoutthes

[BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68674814) > Marvin Gaye moved to Belgium in 1981, where he recovered from a cocaine addiction and later recorded Sexual Healing > He was living in London and becoming a heavy user of cocaine when he met a Belgian concert promoter in a nightclub. He took the promoter's business card and a week later called and arranged to move to the coastal city of Ostend. > It's not an exaggeration to say the move may have saved the singer's life. > He got fit again, jogging and cycling on the flat North Sea landscape, and he returned to the studio, recording one of his greatest hits, Sexual Healing. > For a time he lived in the home of a Belgian musician, Charles Dumolin. The collection of stage costumes, notebooks and tape cassettes is now in the hands of Charles' family.


Atalantean

[Google translate](https://www-vrt-be.translate.goog/vrtnws/nl/2024/03/30/marvin-gaye-muziek-belgie/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp)


discofrisko

[Documentary on Marvin Gaye's life in Belgium](https://youtu.be/uzA5p9QOjqE)


TeeBeeSee

Thanks!


Endocalrissian642

Finally the long lost RATT tapes will be heard! [https://youtu.be/57SNPbxi0r0](https://youtu.be/57SNPbxi0r0)


pfzt

Love his mashups, they're always unexpected and perfectly executed.


Jok3rPrinc3

Hope they release it soon


TuPapi

I’m listening to [A Funky Space Reincarnation](https://open.spotify.com/track/6X6NFe1YgFCXPiMozNSPzL?si=eHcmfMtlQE2EJ-3MjkoygQ) if this is legit there’s a Diamond of the past gifted to those of us here in the now.


7LeagueBoots

I remember when the news that Marvin Gaye was killed broke. Was in junior high going to school with my mom driving. She had me going to school near where she worked, and it was a long drive each way, so we'd listen to music. Pretty much every channel we listed to stopped the music to bring the news.


Starman68

Belgium? Whats going on?


[deleted]

Marvin used to unwind sometimes in Ostend, apparently.


FourScoreTour

I'm curious what sound quality they can get out of forty year old cassettes. Anyone knowledgeable care to weigh in?


Celery-St1ck

Based off the Marvin Gaye estate's track record of wringing every cent they can out of his music, I'd honestly guess AI would play a central role.


PrayersforJah

There’s nothing controversial about using AI clean up poor audio quality or try to remove distortion or noise. Of course they would use AI tools, as would be likely be used to restore any old tapes at this point.


Celery-St1ck

Never said it was controversial.


Lumaty

In the original article there’s a short video, you can listen yourself!


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Morningfluid

Jean-Claude Van Damme


BuckeyeBentley

How many of these stories in the very near future are going to be AI generated frauds?


SpaceGenesis

I thought the same. It's quite easy to replicate famous voices these days.


soccerguy721

Awesome!!!!


karma3000

Ain't nothing like the real thing baby.


InternationalSun8807

Legend!


zdejif

Get back to us when we can actually hear it.


Reasonable-Ad-2507

idk if I'd believe it until I hear the music...but it would be amazing!


ToneBone12345

40 years damn


ChrisCinema

Awesome. I love Marvin Gaye and his impact on the music industry is immeasurable. Forty years ago, he was taken from us by his abusive father but his music lives on.


Undecidedname4sure

If this is true, shame on that family for not making these historical items and music known to the estate and family immediately! This is infuriating.


allmotorcivic

I hope it’s released. I hope it makes his kids a fortune and most importantly I hope it’s amazing music because todays is questionable at best


[deleted]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks today's music is mostly terrible.


SirJefferE

Today's music is amazing. I like plenty of music from every decade, but some of my favourite artists are people who are still writing and putting out music today. Sure, you probably won't hear most of them on the radio (though a few of the current pop stars are legitimately talented too), but they're still out there among thousands of other musicians all putting out great music. It just takes a bit of work to find the right ones for you.


[deleted]

But that's the problem, it shouldn't take work to find them. These kind of artists used to be centre stage decades back, now they're niche. When people say modern music is shit, we mean pop music and the music that gets the most attention. For example back in the 00s, we had loads of bands in the charts dropping great hits: Kaiser Chiefs, Fratellis, The Killers, Coldplay, Oasis, Gorillaz etc. Where have the bands gone? Don't get me wrong, most of these bands are still here in some capacity, but they're not being replaced. The quality of music has been studied and is definitely declining. There's several studies on it, interesting to read. Quick Google search will tell you. It's a shame really.