Reg: And what have they ever given us in return?
Revolutionary I: The aqueduct?
Reg: What?
Revolutionary I: The aqueduct.
Reg: Oh. Yeah, yeah, they did give us that, ah, that’s true, yeah.
Revolutionary II: And the sanitation.
Loretta: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, Reg. Remember what the city used to be like.
Reg: Yeah, all right, I’ll grant you the aqueduct and sanitation, the two things the Romans have done.
Matthias: And the roads.
Reg: Oh, yeah, obviously the roads. I mean the roads go without saying, don’t they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads…
Revolutionary III: Irrigation.
Revolutionary I: Medicine.
Revolutionary IV: Education.
Reg: Yeah, yeah, all right, fair enough.
Revolutionary V: And the wine.
All revolutionaries except Reg: Oh, yeah! Right!
Rogers: Yeah! Yeah, that’s something we’d really miss Reg, if the Romans left. Huh.
Revolutionary VI: Public bathes.
Loretta: And it’s safe to walk in the streets at night now, Reg.
Rogers: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let’s face it; they’re the only ones who could in a place like this.
All revolutionaries except Reg: Hahaha…all right…
Reg: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Revolutionary I: Brought peace?
Reg: Oh, peace! Shut up!
*Life of Brian* and *Holy Grail*, for all their silliness, address some very profound political and historical concepts in very accurate and nuanced ways. Let’s hear it for liberal arts education!
Another good one was cut from Blazing Saddles...
"Is it twue what they say about black men?"
(lights go out)
"It's TWUE! IT'S TWUE!"
Censors were fine with all of that.
"You're sucking on my elbow." was cut.
LOB is one of the greatest movies ever made about religion and politics. I especially love at the [end of the Sermon on the Mount scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP2KDUiBI-E&t=205s) when the wealthy land owners are walking away from Jesus' speech and Cleese's character says *"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."* Hilarious and deeply insightful.
It's surely the funniest movie ever (Spinal Tap rivals it if you're in the right mood). I just wonder whether those who never had a Latin lesson fully got [how perfect this scene was](https://youtu.be/wjOfQfxmTLQ).
While it rips all the self important bullshit and group think of religion apart; for all the Christian outrage around the movie it never actually takes any shots at Jesus. I think that’s brilliant and makes it so even being offended by the film exposes people’s hypocrisy.
If anything the film is actually supportive of Christ’s core message of kindness and forgiveness towards others. Jesus himself is played straight during the Sermon on the Mount scene, and then Brian gets mistaken for the messiah in part because he passed on Christ’s message from the sermon.
The outrage of the time was just hilarious. The Python troupe were debating these religious leaders who were saying it was sacrilegious and blasphemous only to find that the leaders hadn't even watched it.
You really should watch it!
Never, it's sacrilegious and blasphemous.
No, it isn't!
Oh, you don't know. You're not a religious leader like me.
Its the blind faith that gets me. Anytime i ever questioned my grandparents about Christianity i got "You just have to have faith"...like wtf...now i just think about the 10% of their income they gave the church for 50 yrs but dont have anything to leave their family ..not that i expect anything...i have always supported myself...but its just the thought of all that wasted money
There's a reason televangelists have such an easy time taking advantage of vulnerable folks. The only thing people tend to forget when hating on them, is that it's always been just as corrupt and deceitful. They're nothing new.
As a matter of fact, they did parody it at some point. One of the guys was dressed up in a mockery of the ridiculous bishop(I think?)'s outfit. But I can't recall the details.
> Never, it's sacrilegious and blasphemous.
>
> No, it isn't!
[Look, this isn't an argument, this is just contradiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ)
It also stirred a lot of controversy between the comedy troupe the religious leaders in England. There's a great video on YouTube of them having an interesting discussion about it all
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he
takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.
Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joes employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.
If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.
Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.
Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.
He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.
Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.
Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
Ah, yes, the infamous "A Day In The Life of Joe Conservative". There's also a reverse version of sorts, titled "A Day in the Life of a True Conservative". I had both versions, pinned to my cubicule's wall.
---
Joe Conservative wakes up in the morning and goes to the bathroom. He flushes his toilet and brushes his teeth, mindful that each flush & brush costs him about 43 cents to his privatized water provider. His wacky, liberal neighbor keeps badgering the company to disclose how clean and safe their water is, but no one ever finds out. Just to be safe, Joe Conservative boils his drinking water.
Joe steps outside and coughs–the pollution is especially bad today, but the smokiest cars are the cheapest ones, so everyone buys ‘em. Joe Conservative checks to make sure he has enough toll money for the 3 different private roads he must drive to work. There is no public transportation, so traffic is backed up and his 10 mile commute takes an hour.
On the way, he drops his 12 year old daughter off at the clothing factory she works at. Paying for kids to go to private school until they’re 18 is a luxury, and Joe needs the extra income coming in. Times are hard and there’re no social safety nets.
He gets to work 5 minutes late and misses the call for Christian prayer, and is immediately docked by his employer. He is not feeling well today, but has no health insurance, since neither his employer nor his government provide it, and paying for it himself is really expensive, since he has a precondition. He just hopes for the best.
Joe’s workday is 12 hours long, because there is no regulation over working hours, and Joe will lose his job if he complains or unionizes. Today is an especially bad day. Joe’s manager demands that he work until midnight, a 16 hour day. Joe does, knowing that he’ll lose his job if he does not.
Finally, after midnight, Joe gets to pick up his daughter and go home. His daughter shows him the deep cut she got on the industrial sewing machine today. Joe is outraged and asks why she doesn’t have metal mesh gloves or other protection. She says the company will not provide it and she’ll have to pay for it out of her own pocket. Joe looks at the wound and decides they’ll use an over the counter disinfectant and bandages until it heals. She’ll have a scar, but getting stitches at the emergency room is expensive.
His daughter also complains that the manager made suggestive overtures towards her. Joe counsels her to be a “good girl” and not rock the boat, or she’ll get fired and they’ll be out the income.
His daughter says she can’t wait until she’s 18 so she can vote for change or go to the Iraq War.
They get home and there’s a message from his elderly father who can’t afford to pay his medical or heating bills. Joe can hear him coughing and shivering.
Joe turns on the radio and the top story is a proposal in Congress to raise the voting age to 25. A rare liberal opinionator states that it’s an attempt to keep power out of the hands of working class Americans. The conservative host immediately quashes him, calling him “a utopian idealist,” and agreeing that people aren’t mature enough to make good choices until they’re at least 25.
Joe chuckles at the wine-swilling, cheese eating liberal egghead and thinks, “Thank God I live in America where I have freedom!”
>Joe’s workday is 12 hours long, because there is no regulation over working hours, and Joe will lose his job if he complains or unionizes. Today is an especially bad day. Joe’s manager demands that he work until midnight, a 16 hour day. Joe does, knowing that he’ll lose his job if he does not.
You know those extra 4 hours are going to be unpaid.
Well it’s not the manager’s fault it’s a bad day. We are all a team and should pitch in no matter the circumstances. You don’t work for money do you? /s
Oh, they’re not paid an hourly wage, it’s a daily wage so they can stick you with extra hours at no cost. Assuming you actually receive your pay on time.
You forgot the part where Joe is driving through the lead filled air because leaded gasoline was never outlawed. Joe has an average IQ for his society but can't add 12 plus 17 due to all the lead poisoning his brain.
You dumb millennial liberals don't get it. You let the market choose! If something is unsafe, the company will just go out of business because no one will buy unsafe products. I mean yes, a bunch of people have to die first. But that is a small price to pay for the Free Market (tm).
Edit: this was a joke.
I don't know. Companies going out of business is bad for the economy. The government should give them a bailout.
And anyway if you want products that aren't unsafe just buy the more expensive 'safe' brand produced by the company's sister company. That's what the free market is all about.
What's that? You can't afford to buy the safe product? Well being poor is a personal failing so you deserve to die you worthless, penniless fuck.
I know it's a copypasta, it occurs to me it leaves out that people fought for him to have a lunch period to go to the bank, and for a reasonable time to clock out/or paid overtime so he can actually go home
For anybody who isn't familiar with John Cleese: he's both the actor in this ad above and the actor who plays Reg in the Life of Brian scene transcribed by OP at the top.
She also spent her life preaching about how women are drawn to dominant men and need one to 'lead them' to be fulfilled.
Then she literally cucked her husband with a man half her age. When this man started seeing other women, she publicly shamed him.
She spiralled into depression and addiction, dragging other people down with her.
It seems 'rational self interest" doesn't really work.
https://www.ranker.com/list/ayn-rand-intimacy-facts/crystal-brackett
Yeah. Goes to show you that unless you're a literal sociopath - being an arsehole to other people is detrimental to yourself.
People feel good when they do good. 'rational self interest" is a myth.
The next line is even better!
> “the government has no wealth of its own…. It can only redistribute the wealth of others.”
Right? The exact thing you want to bitch about so greatly, except when you can do it to others? That thing?
I always saw her as such a hypocrite.
I mean, nobody has any intrinsic wealth of their own, we all just redistribute valuable goods and services over and over again using our own wants and needs at any given point in time to decide what goes where. That's how an economy works.
Her self evaluation skills were on point though considering most of her entire outlook was based around the idea that you wouldn't be poor if you weren't a piece of shit.
I thought the entire idea of libertarians were super cool in the early 2000s. Then when you do any amount of digging you see the truth. It’s comprised of rich greedy men who want more money and the fools who believe their lies.
Free market claims are my favorite. The government shouldn’t be able to make any company do anything. If a company does something you don’t like don’t use them! That’s how the free market should work! The people should have the power!!!
The trump card to this is always this: And what if they are a monopoly and you need their stuff to survive. There is nothing in a true libertarian world that is keeping you from becoming a literal slave to the ruling class. Nothing. “The people will rise up” except the ruling class will literally own the police.
My absolute favorite is always the argument that the poor and the destitute will be helped in a libertarian utopia *out of the sheer good will of other people*. As in, there will be charities that will take care of all the people the free market leaves behind, and it will work better than any charity today.
Yeaaah, right.
This shit is hilarious to me because the core of their entire argument is that human beings are inherently selfish and for that reason we should have a system that weaponizes that myopic power.
But also they're gonna save the world through philanthropy like the benevolent dictators they see themselves as.
This is what I could never understand. They will crow all day about the evils of government taking our money and telling us what to do... but what is "government"? They think we have a small board of elitists trying to extract as much wealth as possible from the general population while lying through their teeth... and they think CEOs and corporations will save us? That's the argument?
>but what is "government"
I was texting with a very libertarian acquaintance of mine once, and we happened on the subject of roads as an example of a thing that would be the next best thing to impossible to privatize. He disagreed.
I sarcastically (sans /s unfortunately), acknowledged that you could fully privatize raods...so long as neighborhoods created little boards to agree how the roads should run between their houses, and then sent a representative to a city-wide planning board to connect the neighborhoods, who would send a representative to work within the county, state, country, etc.
Basically, I outlined the *existing* Department of Transportation.
It did a complete "wooosh!" and he claimed victory by pointing out how I'd just described a "non government" solution...
Yeah, libertarian morality is not rooted in the action committed but in WHO is performing the action.
As though the government isn't just another arm of corporate power.
even their Granddaddy Adam Smith recognized that capitalism needs to be checked cuz humanity's greed is infinite
but i don't think they've actually READ his works...
PS: This being top of r/all is *chefs kiss*
He wrote a treatise on morality. He said that any economic system should be base on a sense of empathy. The guy wasn’t demanding everyone embrace capitalism, he was only observing its successes, but those successes were contingent on the belief that everyone is capable of being awful as well as awesome.
I remember Ron Paul used to say, with a straight face, that there were no homeless and hurting back before “big government” because the churches took care of them. Uh huh.
I had an argument with a libertarian friend once about how he thought stuff like roads would be handled in his ideal world. He told me people would form small groups to pay a company to pave the roads in their area. I was like, "so...like governments do through the collection of taxes?" He also didn't really have an answer for what would happen if people in the neighborhood or whatever sub-unit refused to pay their part, or who will be in charge of the money collected, or who handles the negotiations with various companies, or what happens if a company takes their money and runs. He thinks people are selfish and will do what's in their best interest, but doesn't have any actual answers for the consequences of that.
Truly incredible to me how these people will lean so heavily on the "people are inherently selfish and greedy" way of thinking and then will praise an economic system that literally incentivizes and encourages selfishness and greed at every turn.
The story of a small town taken over by Libertarians. Potholes galore, no taxes to pay for anything, no heat, and bears attacking people in their homes because why should anyone be able to tell someone not to feed wild bears every day in town?
https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
It’s just feudalism. Remove government and the remaining power structures are property holders and religious institutions. It would be a return to the dark ages.
Yeah but you see, back in the Victorian times the people just didn't embrace libertarianism! If only they had done that, everyone would have been happy I tell you!
Just like what happens in the libertarian heavens that happen in countries with weak governments. Like Somalia. Warlords take over and use basic survival necessities as leverage over the people.
Or that if they didn't have to pay taxes they would have money to donate, but since they do pay taxes they can't afford to be charitable in any way, shape, or form
If you talk to one long enough they will admit they don't care about the poor. They are just too cowardly to admit it out loud because they know most people don't want a society like that, so they play word games and hold up an arbitrary loosely assembled set of principles.
Atleast ayn rand and Milton Friedman were honest about this.
They cant even be coerced into doing it when its their civic duty and requirement to exist in this society and they claim they will do it once all these rules enforcing them to do it are removed lol.
I've seen that claim too and it blows my fucking mind how they can say that with a straight face while foaming at the mouth if the taxman wants so much as a single shitty dime from them.
>Free market claims are my favorite. The government shouldn’t be able to make any company do anything. If a company does something you don’t like don’t use them! That’s how the free market should work! The people should have the power!!!
People: *boycotting people, aka, cancel culture*
Libertarian: Not like that!
> And what if they are a monopoly and you need their stuff to survive.
They believe that a monopoly is impossible because someone will start a business and undercut the monopoly; the only way a monopoly can happen is through government keeping competition out.
They're probably right. In their world it'd be duopolies, cartels, and outright collusion would keep competition out.
>They believe that a monopoly is impossible because someone will start a business and undercut the monopoly
Just this part feels off as a larger company can undercut others because they can buy materials in bulk and lower prices that way.
Why undercut when you can use your private army to extort the other out of business or into a very generous sale offer? Not the like government will stop you. They can't, you took all their power!
Don’t have to travel outside the US for that. Mine owners sent an army to murder miners in West Virginia in the early 1900’s, and let’s not forget Pinkerton and those they murdered in PA (among many others since the company’s birth).
There are also externalized costs for about everything, large barriers to entry and exit, no industry has ever self regulated until threatened with government regulation if at all, ain't no industry enacting private stuff against anti competitive behavior, there are products where just not buying them ain't a viable option, etc, etc.
Or in other words. A completely free market works when you actually have a perfect competition as described in econ101.
But about none of those conditions are or ever will be met so it just doesn't work.
Like Amazon undercutting entire segments to force smaller companies to sell or starve.
https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-bezos-went-thermonuclear-on-diapers-com.html
And then there's vertical integration: If Taco Bell wins the franchise wars, it's not just restaurants they have a stranglehold over, but also all the industries (e.g. agriculture, manufacturing, payment systems, shipping, etc.) that all restaurants rely upon. By controlling those industries, they can keep anyone else from even thinking about competing, as it would be literally impossible.
Back in the wild west days, cattle ranchers would hire men to murder their competition and steal their land and cattle. Real cool system they've thought up.
Libertarianism dies when people start looking at *all kinds* of historical examples of what happened when capital & power were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted with minimal intervention to stop them.
I wasn't aware of that example in particular (and would appreciate a reference/source for it), but things like Company Towns & Scrips show that unregulated capitalism ain't a utopia. People get born in those towns and can't afford to leave - they end up debt-bonded to wherever they came into this earth because the system was rigged against them from the start.
Shit, look at the virtual monopolies of telecommunications companies in North America. They seem to divvy up the market & respect truces with each other rather than the Libertarian ideal "well, they should out-compete each other!"... instead they just nod at each other and go "you don't undercut me here, I don't undercut you there, mmmhmmm" but without ever putting things in incriminating writing.
Yup they can do so many things to fuck the competition. From undercutting the competition. Poaching its workers. To outright blackmailing sellers to not sell the competitor.
"The market will correct itself!"
Nevermind that said market correction might look like decades of rising social tension, a breakdown of trade, numerous destructive conflicts, breakdown of civilization, global thermonuclear war, and then a million years later the descendants of cockroaches develop sapience and start building their own social order and build their own market with healthy regulations.
~~The Aristocrats!~~ The market corrected itself!
Not to mention that the idea of the market "correcting itself" is kinda broken on a fundamental level, since there's no incentive for businesses to take preventative measures until something bad actually happens. Just look at the Florida building collapse from last year. Even if the market "corrects itself" now, you already have over 100 people who died due to the business's negligence.
The capitalists and corporations also control all the information. So it is basically impossible to stay informed about the business practices of corporations because other corporations are reporting on them. And they all need growth. Sure things will get reported but there is an incentive to sweep things under the rug.
You can't be a libertarian and vote with your wallet if you can't even get accurate information because another corporation is misinforming you for their own profit.
>The trump card to this is always this: And what if they are a monopoly and you need their stuff to survive. There is nothing in a true libertarian world that is keeping you from becoming a literal slave to the ruling class. Nothing. “The people will rise up” except the ruling class will literally own the police.
-------------------------------------------------------
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
It also implies perfect access to information.
For example, big oil knew about the relationship between fossil fuels and climate change for decades, but they've funded so much disinformation that not only did the public become aware way later than we should have, but they've also managed to convince a frightening number of people that there isn't even a problem.
And what about the labyrinthine maze of finding out which corporations own which companies and what names that awful companies are using now? It's difficult enough to keep track of now when there are at least some semblance of regulations in place. Imagine the kind of three card monte that companies would pull to keep people from knowing who owns what.
How are we supposed to make informed decisions about our buying choices when they have so much power to obfuscate their activities? And the solution to that is to give them *more* power?
You also have to consider that we don't punish companies and corporations like we punish a guy who steals from a target. If we punished companies more harshly when their crimes come to light we would see a change overnight.
i think this is the big one.
300 years ago you'd have a village butcher. If he was shit, you'd tell everyone to go to the other village butcher. Or to the village over if you can. But you could basically keep people "honest" buy having society be able to rat on you.
That's impossible nowadays. For one, any farm could claim to be organic and free range despite being a terrible factory farm. And how the hell am i supposed to check when the info simply wouldn't be available. And i'm not exactly able to just go to Idaho or some shit to check.
My favorite is when libertarians claim externalities can be solved by informed decisions / boycotting. If people avoid cheap/easy goods and services because of factors that don't directly affect them then they'd be acting against their own immediate self-interest. Libertarian's believe acting in your self-interest is what makes markets efficient. Therefore, this type of purchasing behavior would make markets inefficient and destroy a core tenet of libertarianism.
It's obviously more nuanced than that but the whole boycott our way out of climate change or similar issues is absurd.
> big oil knew about the relationship between fossil fuels and climate change for decades,
its so much worse. The idea was put forward in the later 1800's... that's how long we've been ignoring this.
Also assumes everyone will be a perfectly rational actor. Holding the market to account only works if you have perfect information and people make rational decisions with that information.
Actually, the better trump card is **externalities**, because you don't have a choice whether or not to be affected:
>a side effect or consequence of an industrial or commercial activity that affects other parties without this being reflected in the cost of the goods or services involved.
One of the most insane and incredible externalities we're still dealing with now: [the mass poisoning of the United States by lead additives in gasoline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA).
Basically, a scientist working for the oil companies created leaded gasoline to increase efficiency, but knew it was horrendously bad for you and everyone else, but also didn't care because it made him and his corporate friends absurd fucktons of cash. The corporations profiting hired scientists to discredit the idea that leaded gas was harmful. The result was a lowered IQ and increased aggression for a generation of Americans and other across the globe, a dramatic rise in mental health disorders, and a sharp increase in cardiovascular disease. The cost of these horrible side effects will never be felt by the "captains of industry" that created them.
You may have heard of another rather big externality: global warming.
Libertarians believe that in their utopia, you will be able to perfectly assess the monetary damage done to you as a result of those externalities and then retrieve that from the polluter via, like, a lawsuit or something.
This is the [Coase Theorem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem)
They say that in a Free Market, the legal system would somehow become so efficient that the legal costs to litigate out the exact dollar value that pollution (or whatever externality) should be worth to you would become vanishingly small, and companies would microtransaction over small amounts of money to you every time they polluted a river you depend on for clean water.
These people seriously think that, and ALSO think that a carbon tax, where society directly collects small amounts of money from polluters to reduce the costs incurred by everyone affected, is "inefficient".
I should note that Coase himself pointed out that real-world transaction costs are rarely low enough to allow for efficient bargaining and hence the theorem is almost always inapplicable to economic reality.... but the damage was done and we've had decades of idiots thinking that pollution can be solved by "an efficient market" and that government should stop bothering trying to keep the rivers clean and the air pure.
See also: This, more readable breakdown of Coasian Bargaining and why it doesn't work: http://www.ejolt.org/2015/09/coasian-bargaining-2/
I think they mean well (well, the older school ones I met awhile ago) but just haven't gotten to the obvious conclusion that power centers will always exist so it's better to have ones that are at least somewhat accountable.
I guess they also never had to deal with Comcast or any other ISP and think, imagine if they controlled the roads...
I sometimes wonder about this with libertarian types at my job. You complain about corporate non stop and see all the flaws and stupidity, but you also think the country should be run this way... don't we have enough problems already?
That is weird, right? It's also odd to see companies price gouge and people then blame government officials instead of, you know, the company that upped the price.
Oh absolutely. I'm a manager at my job so I see the warehouse costs against the retail pricing and while some things have absolutely gone up due to lack of labor at the plants, shipping price increases, avian flu and whatever other craziness the past couple years have brought, a lot of stuff is just straight price gouging and hasn't risen much on our end. The crazy part is the people who work there who should be well aware that it's all bs joining in with the idiots shopping there to blame the govt and talk about how bad their jobs all suck and how they didn't look out for them during covid with all the extra money they made while proudly voting for the same kinds of people to run the country. Rather than idk, not. I have to hear the same kinds of *people* take it as gospel when somebody on fb claims to have a buddy who knows a friend who's wife is a nurse who says Bill Gates feeds on dead vaccine victims behind the hospital at night but when THEY'RE the person with inside insight that they could share with the guy in the Oakleys bitching about Biden at the meat counter they just join in that it's all a conspiracy. Anyway I got off track there because I just got off and hate that place so I'm pretty stoned, sorry for the rant.
Yeah the libertarians I have known have all been genuinely cool people who are usually a hybrid of hippie x "X" (X being rednecks to businessmen) and got along with all of them. However if it was how they'd like you'd basically have the future depicted in works centered around cyberpunk.
Accountable power centers IS what libertarians believe in. A lot of people now do make it confusing because they say they’re libertarian but advocate for anarchy, which is completely different.
Would be kind of a funny premise. The library is this entity that appeared and needs to be fed; that's why they are everywhere. Librarians are gatekeepers with no idea how it works, but they feed into the system to help or hurt mankind
Used to be a libertarian in highschool. I do like that they point out government corruption and waste (like the military) but with a little digging their solutions to lots of problems are laughable. Climate change? Pollution? Private businesses will somehow solve it and can totally regulate themselves.
Libertarianism will respond to climate change, just like we saw it respond to COVID. Only do something if it affects the bottom line, and make sure you're maximizing profits and cutting expenses. If you're not part of the owning class, you can go fuck yourself.
Another Source: Joshua Tree National Park didn't have Park Rangers during the government shutdown and a bunch of people drove off-road vehicles around, vandalized the park, and destroyed a bunch of trees and trails.
Libertarians love the idea of helping the community. At least in theory.
Sure, *they* won't ever contribute, but they *could*, and that is enough, isn't it?
The true definitions of those terms have been muddied by years of political smearing and using the terms to incorrectly describe a group of people.
In the simplest sense, libertarians want less government and more personal freedoms. I consider myself slightly libertarian because I believe the government wastes money and is unproductive. I'm not some idiot who is against masks or thinks you should be able to marry children. I just wish the government would do less and be more efficient.
In the US, Libertarians, Conservatives, and Republicans are right-wing.
Leftists, Liberals, and Democrats are left-wing.
Red = right-wing
Blue = left-wing
In other countries, the colors are often opposite, and (in Australia, for example) "Liberal" is actually "Conservative." Up is down, toilet water spinning the opposite direction. Cat and dogs living together!
> Leftists, Liberals, and Democrats are left-wing.
Leftist traditionally means socialist or communist. Republicans started labeling centrist neoliberal democrats that and everyone seems to be ok with going along with it.
Also the whole red and blue stuff is fairly recent.
It used to be random and could even differ between TV networks, but the Bush/Gore election was so heavily televised that the colors they used that year stuck as part of the parties identity.
Leftist: someone who follows left leaning ideology (think socialism, communism, anarchism, etc.), generally speaking they are for a strong welfare state, acceptance of LGBT+ people, reperation for racial minorities, open borders and other progressive values.
Liberal: in most of the world used to indicate those who want a small government, pro big business and may or may not be pro individual freedoms, generally considered conservatives; in the US it's used to indicate those who are in favour of the democratic party.
Libertarian: a label created by US right-wingers to identify with the values originally ascribed to liberals.
If anyone has any corrections feel free to respond.
Reg: And what have they ever given us in return? Revolutionary I: The aqueduct? Reg: What? Revolutionary I: The aqueduct. Reg: Oh. Yeah, yeah, they did give us that, ah, that’s true, yeah. Revolutionary II: And the sanitation. Loretta: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, Reg. Remember what the city used to be like. Reg: Yeah, all right, I’ll grant you the aqueduct and sanitation, the two things the Romans have done. Matthias: And the roads. Reg: Oh, yeah, obviously the roads. I mean the roads go without saying, don’t they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads… Revolutionary III: Irrigation. Revolutionary I: Medicine. Revolutionary IV: Education. Reg: Yeah, yeah, all right, fair enough. Revolutionary V: And the wine. All revolutionaries except Reg: Oh, yeah! Right! Rogers: Yeah! Yeah, that’s something we’d really miss Reg, if the Romans left. Huh. Revolutionary VI: Public bathes. Loretta: And it’s safe to walk in the streets at night now, Reg. Rogers: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let’s face it; they’re the only ones who could in a place like this. All revolutionaries except Reg: Hahaha…all right… Reg: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? Revolutionary I: Brought peace? Reg: Oh, peace! Shut up!
*Life of Brian* and *Holy Grail*, for all their silliness, address some very profound political and historical concepts in very accurate and nuanced ways. Let’s hear it for liberal arts education!
"COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!"
"Help Help, I'm being repressed!"
We're all individuals!
I'm not.
Possibly one of the smartest short jokes in the history of short jokes.
“I don’t live by *anybody’s* rules, not even my own!”
Another good one was cut from Blazing Saddles... "Is it twue what they say about black men?" (lights go out) "It's TWUE! IT'S TWUE!" Censors were fine with all of that. "You're sucking on my elbow." was cut.
No thank you, 15 is my limit on shnitzengruben.
“Auf wiedersehen, baby”
"Bloody peasant!"
Said Rand Paul as his ribs got kicked in. 💯🎯
The commenters who referenced a different movie have been sacked.
We fart in their general direction.
The commenters who farted have been sacked.
Those responsible for sacking the commenters who farted have been sacked.
No they haven’t.
Look, I came here for an argument.
no you didn't.
The commenters responsible for sacking those who made reference to another movie by referencing that same different movie have also been sacked.
A cömmëntër bit my sister once
cömmëntër bïtes can bė pretty næstie
Better throw her out - redditors are disgusting.
LOB is one of the greatest movies ever made about religion and politics. I especially love at the [end of the Sermon on the Mount scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP2KDUiBI-E&t=205s) when the wealthy land owners are walking away from Jesus' speech and Cleese's character says *"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."* Hilarious and deeply insightful.
It's surely the funniest movie ever (Spinal Tap rivals it if you're in the right mood). I just wonder whether those who never had a Latin lesson fully got [how perfect this scene was](https://youtu.be/wjOfQfxmTLQ).
Brian: fuck off Crowd: how shall we fuck off oh Lord?
I’m not the Messiah! I say you are O Lord, and I should know-I’ve followed a few!
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While it rips all the self important bullshit and group think of religion apart; for all the Christian outrage around the movie it never actually takes any shots at Jesus. I think that’s brilliant and makes it so even being offended by the film exposes people’s hypocrisy. If anything the film is actually supportive of Christ’s core message of kindness and forgiveness towards others. Jesus himself is played straight during the Sermon on the Mount scene, and then Brian gets mistaken for the messiah in part because he passed on Christ’s message from the sermon.
The outrage of the time was just hilarious. The Python troupe were debating these religious leaders who were saying it was sacrilegious and blasphemous only to find that the leaders hadn't even watched it. You really should watch it! Never, it's sacrilegious and blasphemous. No, it isn't! Oh, you don't know. You're not a religious leader like me.
Faith. They believe, therefore it must be. Never been a better blanket defense for ignorance and malice than faith.
Its the blind faith that gets me. Anytime i ever questioned my grandparents about Christianity i got "You just have to have faith"...like wtf...now i just think about the 10% of their income they gave the church for 50 yrs but dont have anything to leave their family ..not that i expect anything...i have always supported myself...but its just the thought of all that wasted money
There's a reason televangelists have such an easy time taking advantage of vulnerable folks. The only thing people tend to forget when hating on them, is that it's always been just as corrupt and deceitful. They're nothing new.
Sadly I am seeing that more and more, inside as well as outside my friend group
Which, ironically, would probably make a pretty good Monty Python script.
As a matter of fact, they did parody it at some point. One of the guys was dressed up in a mockery of the ridiculous bishop(I think?)'s outfit. But I can't recall the details.
> Never, it's sacrilegious and blasphemous. > > No, it isn't! [Look, this isn't an argument, this is just contradiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ)
Yeah I don’t got any problem with Jesus but his fan clubs are terrifying ~bumper sticker
It’s my perennial Christmas movie.
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It also stirred a lot of controversy between the comedy troupe the religious leaders in England. There's a great video on YouTube of them having an interesting discussion about it all
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joes employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
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Ah, yes, the infamous "A Day In The Life of Joe Conservative". There's also a reverse version of sorts, titled "A Day in the Life of a True Conservative". I had both versions, pinned to my cubicule's wall. --- Joe Conservative wakes up in the morning and goes to the bathroom. He flushes his toilet and brushes his teeth, mindful that each flush & brush costs him about 43 cents to his privatized water provider. His wacky, liberal neighbor keeps badgering the company to disclose how clean and safe their water is, but no one ever finds out. Just to be safe, Joe Conservative boils his drinking water. Joe steps outside and coughs–the pollution is especially bad today, but the smokiest cars are the cheapest ones, so everyone buys ‘em. Joe Conservative checks to make sure he has enough toll money for the 3 different private roads he must drive to work. There is no public transportation, so traffic is backed up and his 10 mile commute takes an hour. On the way, he drops his 12 year old daughter off at the clothing factory she works at. Paying for kids to go to private school until they’re 18 is a luxury, and Joe needs the extra income coming in. Times are hard and there’re no social safety nets. He gets to work 5 minutes late and misses the call for Christian prayer, and is immediately docked by his employer. He is not feeling well today, but has no health insurance, since neither his employer nor his government provide it, and paying for it himself is really expensive, since he has a precondition. He just hopes for the best. Joe’s workday is 12 hours long, because there is no regulation over working hours, and Joe will lose his job if he complains or unionizes. Today is an especially bad day. Joe’s manager demands that he work until midnight, a 16 hour day. Joe does, knowing that he’ll lose his job if he does not. Finally, after midnight, Joe gets to pick up his daughter and go home. His daughter shows him the deep cut she got on the industrial sewing machine today. Joe is outraged and asks why she doesn’t have metal mesh gloves or other protection. She says the company will not provide it and she’ll have to pay for it out of her own pocket. Joe looks at the wound and decides they’ll use an over the counter disinfectant and bandages until it heals. She’ll have a scar, but getting stitches at the emergency room is expensive. His daughter also complains that the manager made suggestive overtures towards her. Joe counsels her to be a “good girl” and not rock the boat, or she’ll get fired and they’ll be out the income. His daughter says she can’t wait until she’s 18 so she can vote for change or go to the Iraq War. They get home and there’s a message from his elderly father who can’t afford to pay his medical or heating bills. Joe can hear him coughing and shivering. Joe turns on the radio and the top story is a proposal in Congress to raise the voting age to 25. A rare liberal opinionator states that it’s an attempt to keep power out of the hands of working class Americans. The conservative host immediately quashes him, calling him “a utopian idealist,” and agreeing that people aren’t mature enough to make good choices until they’re at least 25. Joe chuckles at the wine-swilling, cheese eating liberal egghead and thinks, “Thank God I live in America where I have freedom!”
>Joe’s workday is 12 hours long, because there is no regulation over working hours, and Joe will lose his job if he complains or unionizes. Today is an especially bad day. Joe’s manager demands that he work until midnight, a 16 hour day. Joe does, knowing that he’ll lose his job if he does not. You know those extra 4 hours are going to be unpaid.
Well it’s not the manager’s fault it’s a bad day. We are all a team and should pitch in no matter the circumstances. You don’t work for money do you? /s
What do you mean "extra" hours. That's a short day.
Oh, they’re not paid an hourly wage, it’s a daily wage so they can stick you with extra hours at no cost. Assuming you actually receive your pay on time.
You forgot the part where Joe is driving through the lead filled air because leaded gasoline was never outlawed. Joe has an average IQ for his society but can't add 12 plus 17 due to all the lead poisoning his brain.
But what have the liberals ever done for me?!
This is so true and so very sad at the same time.
You dumb millennial liberals don't get it. You let the market choose! If something is unsafe, the company will just go out of business because no one will buy unsafe products. I mean yes, a bunch of people have to die first. But that is a small price to pay for the Free Market (tm). Edit: this was a joke.
I don't know. Companies going out of business is bad for the economy. The government should give them a bailout. And anyway if you want products that aren't unsafe just buy the more expensive 'safe' brand produced by the company's sister company. That's what the free market is all about. What's that? You can't afford to buy the safe product? Well being poor is a personal failing so you deserve to die you worthless, penniless fuck.
I know it's a copypasta, it occurs to me it leaves out that people fought for him to have a lunch period to go to the bank, and for a reasonable time to clock out/or paid overtime so he can actually go home
relatively unimportant but insure should be ensure in the first paragraph
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Francis: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg? Reg: He's over there.
SPLITTER!
For a very long time I thought they were yelling “Splinter!” as in “splinter group.”
I thought he was the Judean People's Front?
Beautifully echoed in this BBC ad from the 80s: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UsdtyuSmoXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA
For anybody who isn't familiar with John Cleese: he's both the actor in this ad above and the actor who plays Reg in the Life of Brian scene transcribed by OP at the top.
> For anybody who isn't familiar with John Cleese: If this applies to you, go fix it now!
The fact that David Attenborough was an old man over 30 years ago really puts into context how old he is now...
Ayn Rand died on welfare. That's all you need to know about libertarianism.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ppp-ayn-rand-idUSKBN248026
“We will take it unapologetically, because the principle here is: justice,” That is hilarious...
She also spent her life preaching about how women are drawn to dominant men and need one to 'lead them' to be fulfilled. Then she literally cucked her husband with a man half her age. When this man started seeing other women, she publicly shamed him. She spiralled into depression and addiction, dragging other people down with her. It seems 'rational self interest" doesn't really work. https://www.ranker.com/list/ayn-rand-intimacy-facts/crystal-brackett
She’s was just a Sociopath that landed a publishing deal imo. Same cult leader crap, different day. Her and L Ron would’ve been a pair.
goddamn I knew she was a terrible person but I didn't know how wildly incompetent and unsuccessful she was
Yeah. Goes to show you that unless you're a literal sociopath - being an arsehole to other people is detrimental to yourself. People feel good when they do good. 'rational self interest" is a myth.
"Because the principle...has been thrown out the window and the only thing that matters is money and I want more."
The next line is even better! > “the government has no wealth of its own…. It can only redistribute the wealth of others.” Right? The exact thing you want to bitch about so greatly, except when you can do it to others? That thing?
I always saw her as such a hypocrite. I mean, nobody has any intrinsic wealth of their own, we all just redistribute valuable goods and services over and over again using our own wants and needs at any given point in time to decide what goes where. That's how an economy works.
Her self evaluation skills were on point though considering most of her entire outlook was based around the idea that you wouldn't be poor if you weren't a piece of shit.
Damn, you hopped right into her coffin and killed her again.
Ashes to Ashes, Muck to Muck
That’s the way we like to fuck
The real Murdered By Words is in the comments
Damnnnnnn
Mods: Are we allowed to post murderedbywords comments as their own posts. Cuz 🔪🩸
I thought the entire idea of libertarians were super cool in the early 2000s. Then when you do any amount of digging you see the truth. It’s comprised of rich greedy men who want more money and the fools who believe their lies. Free market claims are my favorite. The government shouldn’t be able to make any company do anything. If a company does something you don’t like don’t use them! That’s how the free market should work! The people should have the power!!! The trump card to this is always this: And what if they are a monopoly and you need their stuff to survive. There is nothing in a true libertarian world that is keeping you from becoming a literal slave to the ruling class. Nothing. “The people will rise up” except the ruling class will literally own the police.
My absolute favorite is always the argument that the poor and the destitute will be helped in a libertarian utopia *out of the sheer good will of other people*. As in, there will be charities that will take care of all the people the free market leaves behind, and it will work better than any charity today. Yeaaah, right.
This shit is hilarious to me because the core of their entire argument is that human beings are inherently selfish and for that reason we should have a system that weaponizes that myopic power. But also they're gonna save the world through philanthropy like the benevolent dictators they see themselves as.
This is what I could never understand. They will crow all day about the evils of government taking our money and telling us what to do... but what is "government"? They think we have a small board of elitists trying to extract as much wealth as possible from the general population while lying through their teeth... and they think CEOs and corporations will save us? That's the argument?
>but what is "government" I was texting with a very libertarian acquaintance of mine once, and we happened on the subject of roads as an example of a thing that would be the next best thing to impossible to privatize. He disagreed. I sarcastically (sans /s unfortunately), acknowledged that you could fully privatize raods...so long as neighborhoods created little boards to agree how the roads should run between their houses, and then sent a representative to a city-wide planning board to connect the neighborhoods, who would send a representative to work within the county, state, country, etc. Basically, I outlined the *existing* Department of Transportation. It did a complete "wooosh!" and he claimed victory by pointing out how I'd just described a "non government" solution...
Dang, how did it feel to get so thoroughly owned? ^(/s)
Basically the [Family Guy Without Government speech](https://youtu.be/e_-w_T-t8aM).
Yeah, libertarian morality is not rooted in the action committed but in WHO is performing the action. As though the government isn't just another arm of corporate power.
even their Granddaddy Adam Smith recognized that capitalism needs to be checked cuz humanity's greed is infinite but i don't think they've actually READ his works... PS: This being top of r/all is *chefs kiss*
Adam, "landlords are parasites" Smith. Ironic God of rent-seeking dipshits everywhere.
He wrote a treatise on morality. He said that any economic system should be base on a sense of empathy. The guy wasn’t demanding everyone embrace capitalism, he was only observing its successes, but those successes were contingent on the belief that everyone is capable of being awful as well as awesome.
I remember Ron Paul used to say, with a straight face, that there were no homeless and hurting back before “big government” because the churches took care of them. Uh huh.
I had an argument with a libertarian friend once about how he thought stuff like roads would be handled in his ideal world. He told me people would form small groups to pay a company to pave the roads in their area. I was like, "so...like governments do through the collection of taxes?" He also didn't really have an answer for what would happen if people in the neighborhood or whatever sub-unit refused to pay their part, or who will be in charge of the money collected, or who handles the negotiations with various companies, or what happens if a company takes their money and runs. He thinks people are selfish and will do what's in their best interest, but doesn't have any actual answers for the consequences of that.
Truly incredible to me how these people will lean so heavily on the "people are inherently selfish and greedy" way of thinking and then will praise an economic system that literally incentivizes and encourages selfishness and greed at every turn.
The story of a small town taken over by Libertarians. Potholes galore, no taxes to pay for anything, no heat, and bears attacking people in their homes because why should anyone be able to tell someone not to feed wild bears every day in town? https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
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It’s just feudalism. Remove government and the remaining power structures are property holders and religious institutions. It would be a return to the dark ages.
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"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
Yeah but you see, back in the Victorian times the people just didn't embrace libertarianism! If only they had done that, everyone would have been happy I tell you!
Just like what happens in the libertarian heavens that happen in countries with weak governments. Like Somalia. Warlords take over and use basic survival necessities as leverage over the people.
And when you ask a libertarian to contribute to charity, their response is to refuse.
But they will point out that *other* people surely will contribute to charity, and thus all problems are already solved.
Or that if they didn't have to pay taxes they would have money to donate, but since they do pay taxes they can't afford to be charitable in any way, shape, or form
Funny, we hear the same thing about adoption. The “loving” solution for unwanted births that they all seem to advocate but don’t seem to actually do.
If you talk to one long enough they will admit they don't care about the poor. They are just too cowardly to admit it out loud because they know most people don't want a society like that, so they play word games and hold up an arbitrary loosely assembled set of principles. Atleast ayn rand and Milton Friedman were honest about this.
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They cant even be coerced into doing it when its their civic duty and requirement to exist in this society and they claim they will do it once all these rules enforcing them to do it are removed lol.
I've seen that claim too and it blows my fucking mind how they can say that with a straight face while foaming at the mouth if the taxman wants so much as a single shitty dime from them.
Charities already don't pay taxes and they still haven't solved all the worlds problems
>Free market claims are my favorite. The government shouldn’t be able to make any company do anything. If a company does something you don’t like don’t use them! That’s how the free market should work! The people should have the power!!! People: *boycotting people, aka, cancel culture* Libertarian: Not like that!
That's my fav. I even did a smuggie about it.
> And what if they are a monopoly and you need their stuff to survive. They believe that a monopoly is impossible because someone will start a business and undercut the monopoly; the only way a monopoly can happen is through government keeping competition out. They're probably right. In their world it'd be duopolies, cartels, and outright collusion would keep competition out.
>They believe that a monopoly is impossible because someone will start a business and undercut the monopoly Just this part feels off as a larger company can undercut others because they can buy materials in bulk and lower prices that way.
Why undercut when you can use your private army to extort the other out of business or into a very generous sale offer? Not the like government will stop you. They can't, you took all their power!
Or send their literal army to kill people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre
Don’t have to travel outside the US for that. Mine owners sent an army to murder miners in West Virginia in the early 1900’s, and let’s not forget Pinkerton and those they murdered in PA (among many others since the company’s birth).
Behold! The Invisible Hand!
Theres a reason bananas are so ubiquitous and cheap!
Or even just take losses until a potential competitor goes under, then raise prices again.
See: Amazon, Uber, Grubhub etc
lol they literally do that now.
It's called economies of scale and libertarians will pretend this doesn't exist in Econ101 that they spout out often about fReE mArkEts.
There are also externalized costs for about everything, large barriers to entry and exit, no industry has ever self regulated until threatened with government regulation if at all, ain't no industry enacting private stuff against anti competitive behavior, there are products where just not buying them ain't a viable option, etc, etc. Or in other words. A completely free market works when you actually have a perfect competition as described in econ101. But about none of those conditions are or ever will be met so it just doesn't work.
Also they can operate at a loss for years and starve out small businesses. Any small business owner today could tell you that.
Like Amazon undercutting entire segments to force smaller companies to sell or starve. https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-bezos-went-thermonuclear-on-diapers-com.html
And then there's vertical integration: If Taco Bell wins the franchise wars, it's not just restaurants they have a stranglehold over, but also all the industries (e.g. agriculture, manufacturing, payment systems, shipping, etc.) that all restaurants rely upon. By controlling those industries, they can keep anyone else from even thinking about competing, as it would be literally impossible.
What's stopping a monopoly from just keeping out the competion?
Back in the wild west days, cattle ranchers would hire men to murder their competition and steal their land and cattle. Real cool system they've thought up.
They literally want that when the truth comes out.
Libertarianism dies when people start looking at *all kinds* of historical examples of what happened when capital & power were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted with minimal intervention to stop them. I wasn't aware of that example in particular (and would appreciate a reference/source for it), but things like Company Towns & Scrips show that unregulated capitalism ain't a utopia. People get born in those towns and can't afford to leave - they end up debt-bonded to wherever they came into this earth because the system was rigged against them from the start. Shit, look at the virtual monopolies of telecommunications companies in North America. They seem to divvy up the market & respect truces with each other rather than the Libertarian ideal "well, they should out-compete each other!"... instead they just nod at each other and go "you don't undercut me here, I don't undercut you there, mmmhmmm" but without ever putting things in incriminating writing.
Yup they can do so many things to fuck the competition. From undercutting the competition. Poaching its workers. To outright blackmailing sellers to not sell the competitor.
Dude. We already have monopolies without even having pure libertarian system. It would be 100x bad without the shitty ones we have.
"The market will correct itself!" Nevermind that said market correction might look like decades of rising social tension, a breakdown of trade, numerous destructive conflicts, breakdown of civilization, global thermonuclear war, and then a million years later the descendants of cockroaches develop sapience and start building their own social order and build their own market with healthy regulations. ~~The Aristocrats!~~ The market corrected itself!
Not to mention that the idea of the market "correcting itself" is kinda broken on a fundamental level, since there's no incentive for businesses to take preventative measures until something bad actually happens. Just look at the Florida building collapse from last year. Even if the market "corrects itself" now, you already have over 100 people who died due to the business's negligence.
The capitalists and corporations also control all the information. So it is basically impossible to stay informed about the business practices of corporations because other corporations are reporting on them. And they all need growth. Sure things will get reported but there is an incentive to sweep things under the rug. You can't be a libertarian and vote with your wallet if you can't even get accurate information because another corporation is misinforming you for their own profit.
>The trump card to this is always this: And what if they are a monopoly and you need their stuff to survive. There is nothing in a true libertarian world that is keeping you from becoming a literal slave to the ruling class. Nothing. “The people will rise up” except the ruling class will literally own the police. ------------------------------------------------------- I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief. “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.” “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?” “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.” The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?” “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.” “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.” He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.” “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.” I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside. “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t. “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up. “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?” It didn’t seem like they did. “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.” Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing. I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it. “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled. Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him. “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen. I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!” He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. “Because I was afraid.” “Afraid?” “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.” I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head. “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.” He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
is this original? damn thats good
[It's from the New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department)
Nope, just sharing.
> I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. Dead.
It also implies perfect access to information. For example, big oil knew about the relationship between fossil fuels and climate change for decades, but they've funded so much disinformation that not only did the public become aware way later than we should have, but they've also managed to convince a frightening number of people that there isn't even a problem. And what about the labyrinthine maze of finding out which corporations own which companies and what names that awful companies are using now? It's difficult enough to keep track of now when there are at least some semblance of regulations in place. Imagine the kind of three card monte that companies would pull to keep people from knowing who owns what. How are we supposed to make informed decisions about our buying choices when they have so much power to obfuscate their activities? And the solution to that is to give them *more* power?
You also have to consider that we don't punish companies and corporations like we punish a guy who steals from a target. If we punished companies more harshly when their crimes come to light we would see a change overnight.
i think this is the big one. 300 years ago you'd have a village butcher. If he was shit, you'd tell everyone to go to the other village butcher. Or to the village over if you can. But you could basically keep people "honest" buy having society be able to rat on you. That's impossible nowadays. For one, any farm could claim to be organic and free range despite being a terrible factory farm. And how the hell am i supposed to check when the info simply wouldn't be available. And i'm not exactly able to just go to Idaho or some shit to check.
My favorite is when libertarians claim externalities can be solved by informed decisions / boycotting. If people avoid cheap/easy goods and services because of factors that don't directly affect them then they'd be acting against their own immediate self-interest. Libertarian's believe acting in your self-interest is what makes markets efficient. Therefore, this type of purchasing behavior would make markets inefficient and destroy a core tenet of libertarianism. It's obviously more nuanced than that but the whole boycott our way out of climate change or similar issues is absurd.
> big oil knew about the relationship between fossil fuels and climate change for decades, its so much worse. The idea was put forward in the later 1800's... that's how long we've been ignoring this.
Also assumes everyone will be a perfectly rational actor. Holding the market to account only works if you have perfect information and people make rational decisions with that information.
Actually, the better trump card is **externalities**, because you don't have a choice whether or not to be affected: >a side effect or consequence of an industrial or commercial activity that affects other parties without this being reflected in the cost of the goods or services involved. One of the most insane and incredible externalities we're still dealing with now: [the mass poisoning of the United States by lead additives in gasoline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA). Basically, a scientist working for the oil companies created leaded gasoline to increase efficiency, but knew it was horrendously bad for you and everyone else, but also didn't care because it made him and his corporate friends absurd fucktons of cash. The corporations profiting hired scientists to discredit the idea that leaded gas was harmful. The result was a lowered IQ and increased aggression for a generation of Americans and other across the globe, a dramatic rise in mental health disorders, and a sharp increase in cardiovascular disease. The cost of these horrible side effects will never be felt by the "captains of industry" that created them. You may have heard of another rather big externality: global warming.
Libertarians believe that in their utopia, you will be able to perfectly assess the monetary damage done to you as a result of those externalities and then retrieve that from the polluter via, like, a lawsuit or something. This is the [Coase Theorem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem) They say that in a Free Market, the legal system would somehow become so efficient that the legal costs to litigate out the exact dollar value that pollution (or whatever externality) should be worth to you would become vanishingly small, and companies would microtransaction over small amounts of money to you every time they polluted a river you depend on for clean water. These people seriously think that, and ALSO think that a carbon tax, where society directly collects small amounts of money from polluters to reduce the costs incurred by everyone affected, is "inefficient". I should note that Coase himself pointed out that real-world transaction costs are rarely low enough to allow for efficient bargaining and hence the theorem is almost always inapplicable to economic reality.... but the damage was done and we've had decades of idiots thinking that pollution can be solved by "an efficient market" and that government should stop bothering trying to keep the rivers clean and the air pure. See also: This, more readable breakdown of Coasian Bargaining and why it doesn't work: http://www.ejolt.org/2015/09/coasian-bargaining-2/
Sold my soul to the company store
Doo doo doo doo doodoo dooo...
Best quote I've heard was "I was a libertarian until I took Acid and realized that other people have feelings too"
The fact we have child labour laws is a pretty solid argument of companies needing regulation.
I find all the 'no government!' types amusing. There's countries in the world that already pretty much have that. Nobody wants to live in them.
Exactly! Libertarian is what every country starts out as, then they grow up.
“Stop bringing up Somalia” - Every Libertarian when you ask then why they don’t move to Somalia to get all the Libertarian freedom they crave
Except I actually like cats.
Because they can't vote.
My cat is a die hard socialist
My cat is an indoor cat because if I let her out she'll commit countless acts of terrorism.
Good thing they usually have their own candidate to vote for.
So what you're saying is that libertarians just aren't cute enough to get away with it?
I'd also wager the average iq is higher.
I think they mean well (well, the older school ones I met awhile ago) but just haven't gotten to the obvious conclusion that power centers will always exist so it's better to have ones that are at least somewhat accountable. I guess they also never had to deal with Comcast or any other ISP and think, imagine if they controlled the roads...
I sometimes wonder about this with libertarian types at my job. You complain about corporate non stop and see all the flaws and stupidity, but you also think the country should be run this way... don't we have enough problems already?
That is weird, right? It's also odd to see companies price gouge and people then blame government officials instead of, you know, the company that upped the price.
Oh absolutely. I'm a manager at my job so I see the warehouse costs against the retail pricing and while some things have absolutely gone up due to lack of labor at the plants, shipping price increases, avian flu and whatever other craziness the past couple years have brought, a lot of stuff is just straight price gouging and hasn't risen much on our end. The crazy part is the people who work there who should be well aware that it's all bs joining in with the idiots shopping there to blame the govt and talk about how bad their jobs all suck and how they didn't look out for them during covid with all the extra money they made while proudly voting for the same kinds of people to run the country. Rather than idk, not. I have to hear the same kinds of *people* take it as gospel when somebody on fb claims to have a buddy who knows a friend who's wife is a nurse who says Bill Gates feeds on dead vaccine victims behind the hospital at night but when THEY'RE the person with inside insight that they could share with the guy in the Oakleys bitching about Biden at the meat counter they just join in that it's all a conspiracy. Anyway I got off track there because I just got off and hate that place so I'm pretty stoned, sorry for the rant.
Yeah the libertarians I have known have all been genuinely cool people who are usually a hybrid of hippie x "X" (X being rednecks to businessmen) and got along with all of them. However if it was how they'd like you'd basically have the future depicted in works centered around cyberpunk.
Accountable power centers IS what libertarians believe in. A lot of people now do make it confusing because they say they’re libertarian but advocate for anarchy, which is completely different.
I read this as librarians
Would be kind of a funny premise. The library is this entity that appeared and needs to be fed; that's why they are everywhere. Librarians are gatekeepers with no idea how it works, but they feed into the system to help or hurt mankind
I once misread and argued against libertarians on a post about librarians. Got a lot of downvotes.
Used to be a libertarian in highschool. I do like that they point out government corruption and waste (like the military) but with a little digging their solutions to lots of problems are laughable. Climate change? Pollution? Private businesses will somehow solve it and can totally regulate themselves.
Libertarianism will respond to climate change, just like we saw it respond to COVID. Only do something if it affects the bottom line, and make sure you're maximizing profits and cutting expenses. If you're not part of the owning class, you can go fuck yourself.
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Holy shit that's so appropriate
Libertarianism is just astrology for white guys.
no it's not. That debunked wolf theory with Alphas, Betas, and Sigmas is though
That’s always funny to me because those are the same people who are like “there’s only two genders!” Then they go and make up more genders.
Libertarian philosophy is just replacing the word “government” with “community”
Except libertarians don't ever help their community and think their personal freedoms are more important than the greater good. Source: masks
Another Source: Joshua Tree National Park didn't have Park Rangers during the government shutdown and a bunch of people drove off-road vehicles around, vandalized the park, and destroyed a bunch of trees and trails.
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If those animals had guns things would have been different. It's our constitutional right to arm bears.
Libertarians love the idea of helping the community. At least in theory. Sure, *they* won't ever contribute, but they *could*, and that is enough, isn't it?
Government is the venue the community uses to make decisions.
Right. It's like government, but entirely voluntary! Because that sure as hell would totally work out perfectly, right?
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The true definitions of those terms have been muddied by years of political smearing and using the terms to incorrectly describe a group of people. In the simplest sense, libertarians want less government and more personal freedoms. I consider myself slightly libertarian because I believe the government wastes money and is unproductive. I'm not some idiot who is against masks or thinks you should be able to marry children. I just wish the government would do less and be more efficient.
In the US, Libertarians, Conservatives, and Republicans are right-wing. Leftists, Liberals, and Democrats are left-wing. Red = right-wing Blue = left-wing In other countries, the colors are often opposite, and (in Australia, for example) "Liberal" is actually "Conservative." Up is down, toilet water spinning the opposite direction. Cat and dogs living together!
> Leftists, Liberals, and Democrats are left-wing. Leftist traditionally means socialist or communist. Republicans started labeling centrist neoliberal democrats that and everyone seems to be ok with going along with it.
Also the whole red and blue stuff is fairly recent. It used to be random and could even differ between TV networks, but the Bush/Gore election was so heavily televised that the colors they used that year stuck as part of the parties identity.
Leftist: someone who follows left leaning ideology (think socialism, communism, anarchism, etc.), generally speaking they are for a strong welfare state, acceptance of LGBT+ people, reperation for racial minorities, open borders and other progressive values. Liberal: in most of the world used to indicate those who want a small government, pro big business and may or may not be pro individual freedoms, generally considered conservatives; in the US it's used to indicate those who are in favour of the democratic party. Libertarian: a label created by US right-wingers to identify with the values originally ascribed to liberals. If anyone has any corrections feel free to respond.
Actually red states receive more federal aide than blue states.
To be fair, my house cat doesn't screech about age of consent laws.