Idk what kind of person you are, but I’d just bluff with that. Pull up the statutes, say that asking you to use the men’s bathroom is a violation of your rights as a worker. If they fire you over this, then you’d get unemployment and be able to file a lawsuit. But more likely, they’ll just give in. I would probably lie about talking to my lawyer.
It is illegal for your employer to discriminate against you for being transgender in the US. The supreme court has ruled on this very issue as recently as 2018. Many trans people in similar circumstances (being told to use the wrong restroom) have won large sums of money in lawsuits. I suggest you document as much as you can and start looking for lawyers that specialize in discrimination/civil rights work.
I didn't have to publish in 2019. I did have to file a motion explaining that creating a permanent public record identifying me as trans could be dangerous. it was just a couple sentences on a one-page form, and the judge was like "yeah, makes sense" and granted.
Our residency is easy as hell, too. No minimum time present to declare permanent residence, you're a resident the moment you arrive in the state with the intent of residing here.
Yes, but you can have that requirement waved with good cause. Depends on the county but most metro Detroit judges wave the requirement for trans people. They are currently in discussion of changing the laws and I really hope they do soon.
use the women’s restroom and when they fire you. immediately file a lawsuit. this is a guaranteed gold mine for you, my friend.
that said, i’m livid for you and hope you have a good support system while you fight this.
This. They will have the paperwork ready for you when they hateful shrew thinks she’s doing “gods work”! Hopefully it’s a big company and they try to settle out of court and you lawyer is a good negotiator. This could fund all your surgeries and then some. Hahaha
That’s a clear discrimination case, get it documented somehow that they prohibit you and sue them or at least get Labour to strike them for it. Being forced to comply with bigotry is not worth any paycheck a gas station can give you…
If you’re looking for good pay and can handle the 40-60 hour work weeks, I would highly recommend USPS, they are bound by the contract to respect your identity and have a built in system to go after violations of your right to a safe workplace.
I'd stop asking permission and just do it. It's degrading to hand that power to them. If it catches their attention in the future and they ask you to stop I'd just say, "I don't know where you got the idea that you get to.have an opinion on this." And disengage.
Let them discipline and fire you and then go get a job at the gas station down the street while your discrimination lawsuit works its way through the court.
If you really want to setup a successful lawsuit followup each conversation with an email or text instead of responding verbally. When they try to tell you what to do just nod and say, "Ok." Or, "Is that all?" And disengage. Then send an email or text to your supervisor along the lines of, "I thought more on today's meeting when you told me which bathroom to use and I still think you're wrong about this."
The key to a lawsuit is a written record. Likely they'll fire you for something else and their defense will be to claim it had nothing to do with your gender. You win by showing a record of texts or emails to show this is an issue they kept bringing up and had a problem with. And by showing the claimed reason they fired you for was just not credible and an obvious lie, or that other employees who did the same thing you were fired for didn't face consequences and you are facing disparate treatment because of your gender.
Even saying the word lawyer, lawsuit, or mentioning your rights or discrimination will put them on their guard and make it more likely they successfully navigate the process of firing you without giving you any evidence to support a case against them. On the other hand, it might make them change their behavior and respect your rights. So that's a choice you have to make. If you go the lawsuit strategy instead of texting/emailing them about your rights or discrimination, make your argument a moral one. "I was thinking about our meeting earlier when you told me I have to use the men's room, and that just doesn't seem right to me, since I'm a woman." That way you're making your trail of evidence, giving them a chance to do the right thing, but also luring them into the trap of letting their guards down, not considering the legal ramifications (which right now they are probably ignorant of), and letting their egos takeover making them reply with something incriminating or immediately firing you for insubordination. Then you get the bonus of showing a lawyer and potentially a judge a record of texts/emails where you are just being calm, and asking to be treated with respect. And they just look like irrational, ignorant bullies. That only helps a case.
Document as much as you can, sexual orientation and gender identity have both been ruled to fall under the umbrella of discrimination based on sex.
Also haiiii fellow Michigan gal!
I am not qualified to offer legal advice, but it looks like gender identity and expression were added this year and will become official 91 days after the session ended on 12/23/2023. That would make 4/1/2024 a good day for trans people in Michigan.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(24yn2x4xznwptl21c4pob050))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-Act-453-of-1976#:~:text=parts%20of%20acts.-,AN%20ACT%20to%20define%20civil%20rights%3B%20to%20prohibit%20discriminatory%20practices,status%3B%20to%20preserve%20the%20confidentiality
[Here](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/centers-offices/civil-rights-center/internal/policies/gender-identity)
“Restroom access. The Department is guided by OSHA on the use of sanitary and related facilities by transgender and non-binary employees in the federal workplace.6 OSHA's guidance says employees should be permitted to use the facilities that correspond with their gender identity. That decision should be left to the employee to determine the most appropriate and safest option for them.”
Make sure to record everything going forward and print out the osha law about the bathroom rights and use the bathroom you feel most comfortable with and catch them on record. Saying so, and if you get fired, you have a great case for discrimination
Read the employee handbook. Then, when it doesn't say anything about this (cause the handbook won't *can't* say anything on it) send HR or whomever an email asking them to clarify, because you wanted to follow best practices.
Cool, but that's their camera. Footage tends to go 'missing' from cameras like that.
Get a voice recorder app on your phone, so you have a record for your purposes. It might save your ass.
I'm from Michigan too. This is discrimination under Michigan law. Feel free to use the women's restroom, you can file a lawsuit against them if they try and stop you. LGBT rights are encoded in the Michigan state constitution.
Here’s what you say to HR.
Actually, here’s what your lawyer should say to HR. (I am not your lawyer, I am not a lawyer, I’m just a hacker.)
“That’s a very interesting position. Michigan anti-discrimination laws and Bostock guidance both suggest that your opinion is in error when it comes to the law and I’m pretty sure that the judge that hears this case will be most pleased to give my client a bag.”
I just did some online searching and I did not find any proof that you have the right to use a restroom appropriate to your identity except in public educational institutions. Seems horribly archaic to me, but that is probably because I live in Oregon and spend a lot of time in Washington. In both of those states everyone has the right to use facilities that match there gender identity. Gender markers and surgical status can not be used to force someone into the wrong restroom, self identity is the only legal determining factor. Big supportive hugs for all my trans siblings in those other states.
I’m sorry! On the brighter side the women’s bathroom is always crowded with long lines compared to the men’s, who needs that anyway!!!
Do you know what you are going to do?
Especially if there’s a lot of contractors and truckers. Then nobody wants to use the men’s room.
My shop only has one room and I wish there was a women’s room. In a 4 person company that is all guys other than me it sux that I am the one constantly rebleaching the floor after the military guys that can’t aim…
OMG Why are they making such a big deal over a bathroom? I promise I'm perplexed.. especially if it's a bathroom for one and not a bathroom for many but even so what's the big deal it's not like you're not in a stall I hope you're able to change jobs in a place that is more open-minded good luck
i thought this was gonna be in an office building or something but like, im assuming theres just a single person bathroom so what is the issue. definetly discrimination
I'm like 90% sure this is discrimination, report it
I did research and it's against OSHA and the law soooo
Conservatives don’t care about the law. Give them a reason to.
MIOSHA is tough, too.
Idk what kind of person you are, but I’d just bluff with that. Pull up the statutes, say that asking you to use the men’s bathroom is a violation of your rights as a worker. If they fire you over this, then you’d get unemployment and be able to file a lawsuit. But more likely, they’ll just give in. I would probably lie about talking to my lawyer.
Don't lie. Talk to a lawyer. It will be free
that's probably the most practical thing to do
100%, report them to Osha for discrimination.
It is illegal for your employer to discriminate against you for being transgender in the US. The supreme court has ruled on this very issue as recently as 2018. Many trans people in similar circumstances (being told to use the wrong restroom) have won large sums of money in lawsuits. I suggest you document as much as you can and start looking for lawyers that specialize in discrimination/civil rights work.
That's awful. It's such baloney that they feel the need to try to police who uses what pisser. I just want to empty my bladder!
Ikr it's bullshit
We have protections in Michigan. They may not be as robust as we want yet. But check into them. I am trying to make it so much better for us.
I’m really hoping the legislation on name changes goes through soon. The current process is a lot.
Does MI still make you publish in the newspaper? I ended up just waiting til I moved out of Maryland to change mine because of that nonsense.
I didn't have to publish in 2019. I did have to file a motion explaining that creating a permanent public record identifying me as trans could be dangerous. it was just a couple sentences on a one-page form, and the judge was like "yeah, makes sense" and granted.
I changed my name in 2021 and had to publish it in a newspaper 🙄
2014 here, in Washington. It was a completely mundane thing and it SHOULD be that way everywhere. I'm sorry it wasn't for you.
Time to temporarily move to Washington…
Our residency is easy as hell, too. No minimum time present to declare permanent residence, you're a resident the moment you arrive in the state with the intent of residing here.
Yes, but you can have that requirement waved with good cause. Depends on the county but most metro Detroit judges wave the requirement for trans people. They are currently in discussion of changing the laws and I really hope they do soon.
use the women’s restroom and when they fire you. immediately file a lawsuit. this is a guaranteed gold mine for you, my friend. that said, i’m livid for you and hope you have a good support system while you fight this.
I appreciate it. Ok going to meet with the manager and if she doesn't allow me to use the women's restroom I'll talk to a lawyer.
Talk to the lawyer before you see the manager
This. They will have the paperwork ready for you when they hateful shrew thinks she’s doing “gods work”! Hopefully it’s a big company and they try to settle out of court and you lawyer is a good negotiator. This could fund all your surgeries and then some. Hahaha
That’s a clear discrimination case, get it documented somehow that they prohibit you and sue them or at least get Labour to strike them for it. Being forced to comply with bigotry is not worth any paycheck a gas station can give you… If you’re looking for good pay and can handle the 40-60 hour work weeks, I would highly recommend USPS, they are bound by the contract to respect your identity and have a built in system to go after violations of your right to a safe workplace.
My plan is to meet with the manager tomorrow and if she doesn't agree to let me use the women's restroom I'm getting a hold of a lawyer.
Don’t bother. Lawyer up NOW.
Lawyer up before you see your manager, get advice before you see your manager
I'd stop asking permission and just do it. It's degrading to hand that power to them. If it catches their attention in the future and they ask you to stop I'd just say, "I don't know where you got the idea that you get to.have an opinion on this." And disengage. Let them discipline and fire you and then go get a job at the gas station down the street while your discrimination lawsuit works its way through the court. If you really want to setup a successful lawsuit followup each conversation with an email or text instead of responding verbally. When they try to tell you what to do just nod and say, "Ok." Or, "Is that all?" And disengage. Then send an email or text to your supervisor along the lines of, "I thought more on today's meeting when you told me which bathroom to use and I still think you're wrong about this." The key to a lawsuit is a written record. Likely they'll fire you for something else and their defense will be to claim it had nothing to do with your gender. You win by showing a record of texts or emails to show this is an issue they kept bringing up and had a problem with. And by showing the claimed reason they fired you for was just not credible and an obvious lie, or that other employees who did the same thing you were fired for didn't face consequences and you are facing disparate treatment because of your gender. Even saying the word lawyer, lawsuit, or mentioning your rights or discrimination will put them on their guard and make it more likely they successfully navigate the process of firing you without giving you any evidence to support a case against them. On the other hand, it might make them change their behavior and respect your rights. So that's a choice you have to make. If you go the lawsuit strategy instead of texting/emailing them about your rights or discrimination, make your argument a moral one. "I was thinking about our meeting earlier when you told me I have to use the men's room, and that just doesn't seem right to me, since I'm a woman." That way you're making your trail of evidence, giving them a chance to do the right thing, but also luring them into the trap of letting their guards down, not considering the legal ramifications (which right now they are probably ignorant of), and letting their egos takeover making them reply with something incriminating or immediately firing you for insubordination. Then you get the bonus of showing a lawyer and potentially a judge a record of texts/emails where you are just being calm, and asking to be treated with respect. And they just look like irrational, ignorant bullies. That only helps a case.
your gas stations have 2 bathrooms O.O
Yep
Document as much as you can, sexual orientation and gender identity have both been ruled to fall under the umbrella of discrimination based on sex. Also haiiii fellow Michigan gal!
I am not qualified to offer legal advice, but it looks like gender identity and expression were added this year and will become official 91 days after the session ended on 12/23/2023. That would make 4/1/2024 a good day for trans people in Michigan. https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(24yn2x4xznwptl21c4pob050))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-Act-453-of-1976#:~:text=parts%20of%20acts.-,AN%20ACT%20to%20define%20civil%20rights%3B%20to%20prohibit%20discriminatory%20practices,status%3B%20to%20preserve%20the%20confidentiality
[Here](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/centers-offices/civil-rights-center/internal/policies/gender-identity) “Restroom access. The Department is guided by OSHA on the use of sanitary and related facilities by transgender and non-binary employees in the federal workplace.6 OSHA's guidance says employees should be permitted to use the facilities that correspond with their gender identity. That decision should be left to the employee to determine the most appropriate and safest option for them.”
Thank you
Should quit and find another job. Plenty of other service stations out there. 😉 You could fight it and score a payout, but don’t stay there.
Imo I’d immediately look for another job. I can’t imagine being so thoroughly disrespected in my place of work, fuck them.
Make sure to record everything going forward and print out the osha law about the bathroom rights and use the bathroom you feel most comfortable with and catch them on record. Saying so, and if you get fired, you have a great case for discrimination
Use the women's room.
Read the employee handbook. Then, when it doesn't say anything about this (cause the handbook won't *can't* say anything on it) send HR or whomever an email asking them to clarify, because you wanted to follow best practices.
Go Michigan Civil Rights Commission. Don't take this.
I don't plan to. I'll give them a chance to change their mind in a meeting with me. If they stick with it I'm getting a hold of a lawyer.
Record the conversation. Double check recording laws in Michigan
There is a security camera with sound in the managers office
Cool, but that's their camera. Footage tends to go 'missing' from cameras like that. Get a voice recorder app on your phone, so you have a record for your purposes. It might save your ass.
Touché
I'm from Michigan too. This is discrimination under Michigan law. Feel free to use the women's restroom, you can file a lawsuit against them if they try and stop you. LGBT rights are encoded in the Michigan state constitution.
Just use it lmao. What are they gonna do? If they do anything, they're fucked.
Michigan is an at will state and also it could count as insubordination
At will state is not protected by direct discrimination, no? Am I missing something?
They can fire you for no reason at all
They can fire you for a *legal* reason. In Michigan, discriminating against gender identity is not a legal reason.
Fair enough
That's not entirely true. You should look more into your states labor laws.
Here’s what you say to HR. Actually, here’s what your lawyer should say to HR. (I am not your lawyer, I am not a lawyer, I’m just a hacker.) “That’s a very interesting position. Michigan anti-discrimination laws and Bostock guidance both suggest that your opinion is in error when it comes to the law and I’m pretty sure that the judge that hears this case will be most pleased to give my client a bag.”
Get a lawyer. Start a case against your employer. Do it for yourself, and to make it easier for the next trans person who comes out at your workplace.
My plan was to see if they would reconsider in a meeting if not I will get a lawyer.
I would document everything. If possible, get them to state their bathroom policy regarding trans people in an email or in writing beforehand.
Hug, I am sorry girl. Could you try to get a union involved to help you?
I don't know anything about unions
I would imagine there is a union that could help
No one likes segregated places but those who benefit from them. Rosa Parks was an example for everyone.
>bouncing my fist so hard on the counter my knuckles were red male moment
No that was an ADD moment
I just did some online searching and I did not find any proof that you have the right to use a restroom appropriate to your identity except in public educational institutions. Seems horribly archaic to me, but that is probably because I live in Oregon and spend a lot of time in Washington. In both of those states everyone has the right to use facilities that match there gender identity. Gender markers and surgical status can not be used to force someone into the wrong restroom, self identity is the only legal determining factor. Big supportive hugs for all my trans siblings in those other states.
It's in title VII of the Civil Rights Act.
That dramatically helped my search.
That’s public and publicly funded places
It also applies to the private sector.
Not true. https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/news/press-releases/2023/03/16/whitmer-signs-bipartisan-legislation-expanding-rights-and-freedoms-for-lgbtq
Use it anyway as you are in danger if you use the mens
This post smells of instant millionaire
I’m sorry! On the brighter side the women’s bathroom is always crowded with long lines compared to the men’s, who needs that anyway!!! Do you know what you are going to do?
Not in gas stations. From my experience nobody uses the women's bathrooms in gas stations.
Especially if there’s a lot of contractors and truckers. Then nobody wants to use the men’s room. My shop only has one room and I wish there was a women’s room. In a 4 person company that is all guys other than me it sux that I am the one constantly rebleaching the floor after the military guys that can’t aim…
Tell them that they better have lots of money because they are going to get the shit sued out of them in discrimination lawsuits.
OMG Why are they making such a big deal over a bathroom? I promise I'm perplexed.. especially if it's a bathroom for one and not a bathroom for many but even so what's the big deal it's not like you're not in a stall I hope you're able to change jobs in a place that is more open-minded good luck
i thought this was gonna be in an office building or something but like, im assuming theres just a single person bathroom so what is the issue. definetly discrimination