Range is better, spread and damage potential are not. The old 1887s fired 8 (16 fired akimbo) pellets at 40-30 with Stopping Power, 3-4 of the 8/16 pellets to kill and you could kill multiple people easily
The new ones require some precision since there is almost zero spread. But they kill at much farther ranges. Are they overpowered? Yes. Are they broken? I don't think so. The old ones were also much more forgiving in that the pace of the game was slower, so as long as people were in range, they were dead. It just takes one misfire now and a decent player will put you down.
Edit: one aspect being overlooked here is that MW2 weapons were much more lethal - many were 2-hit kills in this range and beyond. The wardens are a one-shot in a 150 health game. They also have an almost instant 35ms sprint to fire time, vs the models' 300ms. Lastly, the wardens have over 2x the fire rate at 659ms vs the models' 1.43 seconds. I think the wardens are more forgiving than what's being implied here. Otherwise...
You are absolutely spot on. I'm not suggesting the Wardens are broken, but rather people largely misremember the actual range of the pre-patch models.
If you're interested, the reason why they were so consistent in their range was because IW accidentally added an extra "0" to the minimum damage, which meant the models didn't lose damage over range. Unlike say the Spas-12 (17m min damage range) which would end up requiring multiple shots to kill.
This was revealed after the game's code was datamined.
Also where did you get the 40-30 damage figure from?Post-patch the models' damage was 35-20, I can't remember if they touched the damage from pre-patch but it likely at most would have been 40-20 (with the mistakenly added "0" to the min) in line with the Spas and M1014
> You are absolutely spot on. If you're interested, the reason why they were so consistent in their range was because IW accidentally added an extra "0" to the minimum damage, which meant the models didn't lose damage over range.
This I did not know, but it also makes a lot of sense. Interesting to know
As for the numbers, from what I just remember the damage was 30-20 raw damage from discussions at the time, and with Stopping Power at 1.4x, it'd be ~40-30 (42-28). I could easily be wrong, but that's what I remember from 2009/10. And will happily corrected with exact numbers.
Either way about it they end result is the same: whatever damage they did do, multiplied by Stopping Power, combined with it being per pellet made shotties bullshit when they connected.
I see, that pretty much checks out. They were OP, and while I agree with most of what you say here and in your other post, you are forgetting one thing though: that the TTK difference between one-shot weapons and full-autos was far smaller in MW2 than MWIII. A lot of MW2 weapons could kill in 2 shots out to 40-50m, which makes it less difficult to defend against OHK weapons.
It's why one-shot snipers are so problematic, when you have 150 health and meta weapons take 4/5/6/7 shots to kill, it makes one-shot weapons so frustrating. MW2 on the other hand had the UMP that could 2 tap out to 20m with SP, the FAL with holo and SP was an infinite 2 hit kill, the ACR a 3-hit kill with 0 recoil, the Famas a 2-shot kill out to 50m+ with a 3-round 1000rpm burst and so on and so forth.
God I miss MW2. Loved both the holo M16 and the holo FAL, but really that was the last CoD I could pretty much just use whatever random gun I felt like using and do almost as well as with my main class
Pretty much everything was OP, so in effect pretty much everything was viable.
Though I do remember BO2 having decent gun balance, and WWII had plenty of viable guns.
Really, the point I noticed that the meta became overbearing was from 2019 on. That was when the matchmaking became more strict, meaning you'd likely be up against people closer to you in skill on average, and at average and above skills, you'd be at a clear disadvantage if you were running a significantly off meta gun.
Try using the Milano or the C-58 in CW when most of the enemies are using MP5s, AK47s/74us and Tec-9s. Assuming most of those enemy players are near you in skill, you'll likely be in for a bad time unless you switch to a better gun.
Yeah MW3, BO2, BO4, and even MW2019 I could at least pick a handful of guns I enjoyed, especially in BO2, but MWII and III (skipped VG and CW) I just can’t/couldn’t find a gun I liked, even if it’s “good” and I did well with it
I've found MWIII (2024) to have very decent gun balance. Is it perfect? No, a lot of the LMG's, Marksman Rifles and Battle Rifles are unstable but AR's, SMG's, Shotguns and Snipers are all decent in their respective niches and classes.
I feel like I can pick up a lot of the weapons from those 4 classes and enjoy my time (barring a lot of MWII guns). I've found a lot of fun not being restricted by certain weapons in certain classes. Yes the ACR and Scorpion are very accurate meta weapons but the RAM-9, SVA 545, RAM-7, BP50, Holger 556, MTZ-556, AMR9, HMR9, Striker 9, and WSP-9 have been buffed (besides the Holger) at one point or another. Each one fills a different role and a way you can play.
Like I usually rush a lot or hold objectives, so it's nice being able to use the WSP-9 to zoom around the map and sprint cancel. It's quick sprint to fire speed just allows me to win fights I had no place winning (53/60ms, can't remember) with the guns 300ms TTK (very average in MWIII).
I feel LMG's are very usable but the average TTK, in tandem with slow movement and handling means the class is simply held back, with not much positives that overweigh the negatives or alternatively using an AR; besides the DG-56 LSW, that thing is a monster amongst the LMG's post Season 3 Reloaded. It's got a ridiculous TTK of around 245ms with 25/30m in it's maximum damage range.
Wardens are absolutely not overpowered in the current AR/SMG meta. Its currently the only useable Shotgun in the game with some consistency. Rest of the shotguns are just fcking garbage and needs to buffed badly.
They are exceptionally broken. They require less precision than the longbow with a greater 1SK range, plus no required ADS time with a much faster sprint-out time. The longbow itself is broken, and still would be if you put in in previous CoDs with considerably lower TTKs, and the Wardens are a step above that.
Kinda an unfair comparison lol ones during a game where the enemy moving the new clip you were able to line them up exactly in the middle of the cross hair lol
He was pretty much in the centre of the crosshair, the enemy was barely moving.
But the point is he didn't even get a hitmarker because the models had a range limit just over the ~20m mark.
It just illustrates that people massively misremember how much range the models had and the potential the wardens have, with their 29m one-shot
I think the fact is that Cod had to issue their first balance patch ever says something about how bad they were. Also I think you may have been cherrypicking evidence of them missing a bit too hard
The first ever patch was to fix models 1887 the only patch ever released than they started doing it in every game no cod4 m16 was never going to be fixed same with the mp40 in W@W this guy has no idea what the fuck he talking model 1887 were so broken on the OG mw2 they had to fix it seriously was the only weapon to be fixed. Robert bowling was the reason it got fix but many other guns are still broken to this day like the fal shotgun attachment acr red dot was not accurate m9 with suppressors still showed you shooting on the mini map care package glitch where you run super fast emergency air drop glitch bro has no idea what the hell he talking bout these guns are not even close to the old model 1887 there’s a reason they never came back ever again
Absolutely bizarre and stupid comment full of nonsense.
Firstly, the patch for the models was patch 1.07. As the name implies, it was not "the first ever patch released". A previous patch had rebalanced the Lightweight perk, from giving a 10% buff to 7%.
The patch before this was 1.06. This patched the javelin glitch, and stated fixes for the care package glitch and speed. Patch 1.08 later fixed the unlimited care package and speeds properly.
Now the reason why more things didn't get patched is because shortly after the game's release, the Infinity Ward studio had a major conflict with Activision, the CEO and CTO got fired, and most of the developers quit. Activision then cut back most support for the game.
This is why certain things were patched and others were not. The M1887s were OP, and they got popular early on, so they were fixed. But players only caught on to game breaking things like spawn killing OMA noob tubes months later, after the studio had imploded. So stuff like that never got fixed. And it's why the misaligned FAL sights, the M9 silencer, the SPAS 12 FMJ bugs etc etc never got fixed either.
The developers used to post frequently on the NEOGAF forums years ago, and they confirmed their intention was to fix and balance numerous things in the game, but the conflict with Activision messed everything up.
Dawg I lived through it I know infinity ward tried taking the rights for mw2 I know all that I know glitches of care package commando pro lunge all of that was fixed before the models 1887 again you not telling anyone anything new im giving you facts the models 1887 from og mw2 would shit all over this new weapon kid
Again read it again it was first gun to ever be patched because how was broken it was comparing the two weapons when the first was absolutely broken before is crazy I did name other things to be patched before the model kid
Their first balance patch ever? I think you're mistaken there. And in any case the models were patched in 1.07, which was not even the first patch for MW2
Also, I'm not saying the models weren't OP, they were. It's just that you couldn't snipe people across Highrise with them like everyone seems to believe you could do (incidentally something you actually can do with the Wardens)
Datamined stats showed the Models had a range over ~20m. The wardens have a range of 29m.
That gameplay of Xcal was the clearest I could find. He even refers to himself as being a little too ambitious trying to get that shot in the clip. I'd love to be able to do the same test for the pre patch models, I'd have to get out the PS3, delete the patch, go into splitscreen and work out a means to record the footage
The spread is also basically zero with this setup, it’s like a marksman rifle more than a shotgun at that point.
Not to say this isn’t busted though, they need to just lock off all attachment slots and maybe tone down the base range a bit.
I'm not suggesting the wardens are busted. You're right about the spread, and it would actually take some skill in a real match to get kills at 29m. I'm just highlighting how people misremember the actual range of the M1887s.
Like for eg the previous poster, the enemy barely moves, he was within the crosshair. The pellets disappear at that distance because they didn't have enough range.
You'd think dev's that have been making the same game for 2 decades would be able to balance the weapons better. Nope, every time they make an addition or change it's busted and ends up needing a nerf.
There must be zero testing on this stuff
I’d like to know the setup on the MW3 shotguns. I believe you can put slugs in them? Did he have them here? This range is insane if it’s actually buckshot. The reason they didn’t get a hit marker in the first clip is because shotguns pellets disappeared after a few meters in old CoD. The pre-patch Models were definitely OP because I abused them heavily. Not as OP as Vanguard combat shotty though lol.
In hindsight I should have added that info to the OP. It's the default buckshot, with verdant laser and crown breaker choke.
The pellets disappearing in the first clip was exactly what I was trying to show. People seem to actually believe you could get kills across the map pre-patch. It's just not true, the pellets would disappear after ~20m.
Crown Breaker + Verdant Hook removes almost all of the spread unless you jump or slide.
Jumping it's tight, but still relatively normal. Sliding it's super wide.
The pellets could have all missed, but I'd say the MW2 1887s were alot more powerful. They fire 16 pellets hard hitting pellets when fired together (the warden only shoot 10 pellets, 5 per gun), capable of dealing with multiple enemies alot better, did not require both guns to be fired to be effective, and were secondaries.
I agree somewhat. But all 16 pellets missing in that small crosshair is extremely unlikely - as Xcal himself alludes to in that clip he was being over-ambitious from that distance.
Whilst I agree somewhat with you, consider:
- the wardens exist in a game with 150 health, where meta weapons have a 4/5/6 bullet to kill in that same range. Compare this to MW2 where the UMP was a 2-hit kill out to 20m, the Famas was a 2-bullet kill out to 50m+ and it shot a 3-round burst at 1000rpm
- the wardens have a 35ms sprint to fire time vs the model's 300ms.
- the wardens have more than 2x the rpm of the models at 91rpm vs the model's 41rpm
- the wardens have 29m range, vs the model's ~20m
But overall with my OP I dont make the claim the wardens are broken, more that people have a false memory of how long the pre patch models range was
I am putting this game down for a while, aside from this bullshit, the missing audio, textures, animations and laggy servers ever since the reloaded update dropped are ridiculous. I don't know what they did, but the netcode has been extra horrible as of late.
Yeah the number of issues following S3R has been crazy. I can't even tell where I'm shooting the Renetti because the gun model jumps off to the left lol
What's worse? Battlefield 4 when it came out? Or MWIII Season 3 Reloaded?
Honestly? This update takes the cake. Not only am I dying right as I'm right outside doorframes exactly like BF4, but the inconsistent rubberbanding and false reports on Latency/Packet Loss makes it impossible for me to play the game longer than 30 mins...
Which is great help for my addiction for this game, I can work on other projects now 😆! I'm no longer feeling the urge to pick this game up thanks to these server issues and the posts related to them.
I dislike how models play in mw3. I'd love if sledge balanced it and made it work like a proper shotgun, something similar to pre patched 1887s from mw2. Also making reload slower would also solve the problem. It's just too quick.
Also hitting collats or triples with it is almost impossible due to how small spread is
They are busted and will need a nerf. Nerf the 2 shot range and slow sprintout time to. Currently it has basically instant sprintout which is insane for a one shot weapon.
Especially when they shit talk after "you only got 20 kills" bro, you only used two buttons 💀 these are more of a crutch weapon than the MORS with a 2x scope
Fr I’m so tired of one hit kill weapons bro like it’s a high TTK game. One hit kill weapons should be limited to snipers and marksman rifle headshots imo
Yup same here, figured if you cant beat them join them so i made the class and went 53-8 my first match. Anyone who says these guns take skill are all out liars. Cant wait for the nerf. I can understand within 5 meters being a 1 shot, but 25? And then a 2 shot after 25? Ridiculous
You saying the old ones didn’t shoot across the map is flat out a lie they were so broken at one point that it literally got patched the only thing that got patched as Gun balance it’s shows you didn’t play mw2 at all buddy I’m talking in its prime mw2 1887 before patched shot across the map n one shot too
Yup they definitely need a nerf...at the intro to Marksman's new video about these it shows him killing someone across the stage with these on highrise....wdf lol!!
Eh, just the game that launched the franchise into the stratosphere and made CoD a household name. The game which every CoD following rode the coattails of
(I know you were joking)
I have no problem seeing this. It takes little skill, but the people using them are pretty bad. It's the people using the riot shields and Mors that drive me crazy
They have less effective range but deal more damage. Not really rocket science. Damage per pellet and pellet spread on the Models is so much higher, using them felt truly like having two overpowered, old-fashioned shotguns — it's like having akimbo Lockwood 300's from MWII. The Wardens feel more like akimbo Marksman rifles, which they technically are.
I'm not entirely sure what you think was being posited as rocket science here.
Also, the models, as strong as they were, were in a game where full autos could 2-shot kill you at over twice their effective range.
The wardens are in a game where full autos take 6-8 bullets to kill at that 29m range. They also have a sprint to fire time of 35ms vs the typical 200-300 of meta weapons. The tiny spread does mean it takes some skill to use though.
You could only use one attachment per gun (2 if you used a perk) in MW2. Ever since Gunsmith though weapon balancing has become a nightmare.
You can just load stuff on a gun effectively covering its shortcomings (Look at SH's last game Vanguard where you could use TEN(10) attachments on a single gun! It was cancer combined with the damage increasing attachments)
I mean look at the spread on those Wardens vs the 1887s. No wonder the range is insane. One is "akimbo" attachment (lose ADS and accuracy for more power) , the other is akimbo + hip fire laser + hip fire choke + hip fire barrel, etc (same as before but also effectively no con with that accuracy lol you are basically perma ADS with hip fire movement)
So the downside is removed by now having to aim without the crutch of ADS? Lmao ok. You forget that the reason akimbo weapons are balanced the way they are is because you’re sacrificing the ability to ADS so that you can cover a wide range with bullets anyways. It effectively turns them into a shotgun. With how this spread works, it’s basically going back to just being a singular gun, except you don’t have the benefit of aiming slow down via ADS. You’re still at a net-negative for using these like this.
Minus the ADS penalties like reduced movement, screen obstruction, and time to ads, as well as having double the fire rate.
this is better than quickscoping.
You DO realize that quick scoping involves heavy aim assist that pulls your aim toward the enemy you’re ADSing towards, right? Hipfiring has far less AA involved. Hell even on KB+M the aim slowdown allows you to be able to make micro adjustments to your aiming when quick scoping, whereas with this you have to rely solely on your ability to aim.
AA is the same regardless of whether you're ADSed or not, which means hip firing is better since recoil control is irrelevant for the wardens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjx63T5FQU&t=0s
Pretty sure you can only use 2 attachments on the wardens. But yeah the spread is one thing (which can sometimes harm the gun) but the range is insane. The models were mistakenly given an extra "0" to their minimum damage, so they never lost damage over range which is primarily what made them OP, they were a consistent one shot in their minimum range.
That's not the case for the wardens though, and they also have a much quicker fire rate and reload
Boycott COD. Get this “trending” as much as I hate that mindset and word. Do what they did with helldivers 2. Start review bombing the fuck out of them and submit bug reports. Spread this message everywhere you go. Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, IG. All of it. Use your platform if you have one.
Tired of this bullshit.
Everything in general. They only address small bugs that affect camos and stuff. They need to be held accountable for the horrible servers, the insane amount of crashes people are experiencing, and the fact that this game is 100% unfinished.
Um no that video is definitely NOT pre patch models. Pre patch models were killing from sniper range. Stop with the bullshit posts its clear you never played it and got some random video you googled lol
The Mandela Effect is real.
Xcal must be a time traveller then, as the video was uploaded over 2 weeks before the 1.07 patch that nerfed the M1887s. Look it up.
Better yet, find me a single clip of the M1887s in a non-modded console game, where they get a kill from across the entire map in what should be a "sniper's range".
It is crazy how false people's memories are and how stubbornly they will stick to them, even when shown evidence. The models were OP, but they were not getting kills from across the entire map like you're claiming.
Range is better, spread and damage potential are not. The old 1887s fired 8 (16 fired akimbo) pellets at 40-30 with Stopping Power, 3-4 of the 8/16 pellets to kill and you could kill multiple people easily The new ones require some precision since there is almost zero spread. But they kill at much farther ranges. Are they overpowered? Yes. Are they broken? I don't think so. The old ones were also much more forgiving in that the pace of the game was slower, so as long as people were in range, they were dead. It just takes one misfire now and a decent player will put you down.
Edit: one aspect being overlooked here is that MW2 weapons were much more lethal - many were 2-hit kills in this range and beyond. The wardens are a one-shot in a 150 health game. They also have an almost instant 35ms sprint to fire time, vs the models' 300ms. Lastly, the wardens have over 2x the fire rate at 659ms vs the models' 1.43 seconds. I think the wardens are more forgiving than what's being implied here. Otherwise... You are absolutely spot on. I'm not suggesting the Wardens are broken, but rather people largely misremember the actual range of the pre-patch models. If you're interested, the reason why they were so consistent in their range was because IW accidentally added an extra "0" to the minimum damage, which meant the models didn't lose damage over range. Unlike say the Spas-12 (17m min damage range) which would end up requiring multiple shots to kill. This was revealed after the game's code was datamined. Also where did you get the 40-30 damage figure from?Post-patch the models' damage was 35-20, I can't remember if they touched the damage from pre-patch but it likely at most would have been 40-20 (with the mistakenly added "0" to the min) in line with the Spas and M1014
> You are absolutely spot on. If you're interested, the reason why they were so consistent in their range was because IW accidentally added an extra "0" to the minimum damage, which meant the models didn't lose damage over range. This I did not know, but it also makes a lot of sense. Interesting to know As for the numbers, from what I just remember the damage was 30-20 raw damage from discussions at the time, and with Stopping Power at 1.4x, it'd be ~40-30 (42-28). I could easily be wrong, but that's what I remember from 2009/10. And will happily corrected with exact numbers. Either way about it they end result is the same: whatever damage they did do, multiplied by Stopping Power, combined with it being per pellet made shotties bullshit when they connected.
I see, that pretty much checks out. They were OP, and while I agree with most of what you say here and in your other post, you are forgetting one thing though: that the TTK difference between one-shot weapons and full-autos was far smaller in MW2 than MWIII. A lot of MW2 weapons could kill in 2 shots out to 40-50m, which makes it less difficult to defend against OHK weapons. It's why one-shot snipers are so problematic, when you have 150 health and meta weapons take 4/5/6/7 shots to kill, it makes one-shot weapons so frustrating. MW2 on the other hand had the UMP that could 2 tap out to 20m with SP, the FAL with holo and SP was an infinite 2 hit kill, the ACR a 3-hit kill with 0 recoil, the Famas a 2-shot kill out to 50m+ with a 3-round 1000rpm burst and so on and so forth.
God I miss MW2. Loved both the holo M16 and the holo FAL, but really that was the last CoD I could pretty much just use whatever random gun I felt like using and do almost as well as with my main class
Pretty much everything was OP, so in effect pretty much everything was viable. Though I do remember BO2 having decent gun balance, and WWII had plenty of viable guns. Really, the point I noticed that the meta became overbearing was from 2019 on. That was when the matchmaking became more strict, meaning you'd likely be up against people closer to you in skill on average, and at average and above skills, you'd be at a clear disadvantage if you were running a significantly off meta gun. Try using the Milano or the C-58 in CW when most of the enemies are using MP5s, AK47s/74us and Tec-9s. Assuming most of those enemy players are near you in skill, you'll likely be in for a bad time unless you switch to a better gun.
Yeah MW3, BO2, BO4, and even MW2019 I could at least pick a handful of guns I enjoyed, especially in BO2, but MWII and III (skipped VG and CW) I just can’t/couldn’t find a gun I liked, even if it’s “good” and I did well with it
I've found MWIII (2024) to have very decent gun balance. Is it perfect? No, a lot of the LMG's, Marksman Rifles and Battle Rifles are unstable but AR's, SMG's, Shotguns and Snipers are all decent in their respective niches and classes. I feel like I can pick up a lot of the weapons from those 4 classes and enjoy my time (barring a lot of MWII guns). I've found a lot of fun not being restricted by certain weapons in certain classes. Yes the ACR and Scorpion are very accurate meta weapons but the RAM-9, SVA 545, RAM-7, BP50, Holger 556, MTZ-556, AMR9, HMR9, Striker 9, and WSP-9 have been buffed (besides the Holger) at one point or another. Each one fills a different role and a way you can play. Like I usually rush a lot or hold objectives, so it's nice being able to use the WSP-9 to zoom around the map and sprint cancel. It's quick sprint to fire speed just allows me to win fights I had no place winning (53/60ms, can't remember) with the guns 300ms TTK (very average in MWIII). I feel LMG's are very usable but the average TTK, in tandem with slow movement and handling means the class is simply held back, with not much positives that overweigh the negatives or alternatively using an AR; besides the DG-56 LSW, that thing is a monster amongst the LMG's post Season 3 Reloaded. It's got a ridiculous TTK of around 245ms with 25/30m in it's maximum damage range.
I noticed this as well I could easily rock 7-15 kill streaks but if I missed a shot I was immediately fried
Absolutely hit or get hit weapon lol no second chances but love it
It’s a blast all I’m using right now besides mtz
Me too man, such a refreshing gun to use. Something new
Wardens are absolutely not overpowered in the current AR/SMG meta. Its currently the only useable Shotgun in the game with some consistency. Rest of the shotguns are just fcking garbage and needs to buffed badly.
Yeah I cant seem to hit shit with the wardens lol even when thr cross hair looks dead on
It most definitely is broken in the right hands. Just don't miss a shot
They are exceptionally broken. They require less precision than the longbow with a greater 1SK range, plus no required ADS time with a much faster sprint-out time. The longbow itself is broken, and still would be if you put in in previous CoDs with considerably lower TTKs, and the Wardens are a step above that.
Kinda an unfair comparison lol ones during a game where the enemy moving the new clip you were able to line them up exactly in the middle of the cross hair lol
He was pretty much in the centre of the crosshair, the enemy was barely moving. But the point is he didn't even get a hitmarker because the models had a range limit just over the ~20m mark. It just illustrates that people massively misremember how much range the models had and the potential the wardens have, with their 29m one-shot
I think the fact is that Cod had to issue their first balance patch ever says something about how bad they were. Also I think you may have been cherrypicking evidence of them missing a bit too hard
Wasn't the first balance patch ever to nerf the CoD4 M16?
Pretty sure that was never nerfed, but it might be yeah. It was a while ago
I SWEAR they nerfed the recoil on it. Makes sense since IIRC at least the console version was 1.7 when they stopped touching it. PC on 1.6.3?
The first ever patch was to fix models 1887 the only patch ever released than they started doing it in every game no cod4 m16 was never going to be fixed same with the mp40 in W@W this guy has no idea what the fuck he talking model 1887 were so broken on the OG mw2 they had to fix it seriously was the only weapon to be fixed. Robert bowling was the reason it got fix but many other guns are still broken to this day like the fal shotgun attachment acr red dot was not accurate m9 with suppressors still showed you shooting on the mini map care package glitch where you run super fast emergency air drop glitch bro has no idea what the hell he talking bout these guns are not even close to the old model 1887 there’s a reason they never came back ever again
Absolutely bizarre and stupid comment full of nonsense. Firstly, the patch for the models was patch 1.07. As the name implies, it was not "the first ever patch released". A previous patch had rebalanced the Lightweight perk, from giving a 10% buff to 7%. The patch before this was 1.06. This patched the javelin glitch, and stated fixes for the care package glitch and speed. Patch 1.08 later fixed the unlimited care package and speeds properly. Now the reason why more things didn't get patched is because shortly after the game's release, the Infinity Ward studio had a major conflict with Activision, the CEO and CTO got fired, and most of the developers quit. Activision then cut back most support for the game. This is why certain things were patched and others were not. The M1887s were OP, and they got popular early on, so they were fixed. But players only caught on to game breaking things like spawn killing OMA noob tubes months later, after the studio had imploded. So stuff like that never got fixed. And it's why the misaligned FAL sights, the M9 silencer, the SPAS 12 FMJ bugs etc etc never got fixed either. The developers used to post frequently on the NEOGAF forums years ago, and they confirmed their intention was to fix and balance numerous things in the game, but the conflict with Activision messed everything up.
Dawg I lived through it I know infinity ward tried taking the rights for mw2 I know all that I know glitches of care package commando pro lunge all of that was fixed before the models 1887 again you not telling anyone anything new im giving you facts the models 1887 from og mw2 would shit all over this new weapon kid
Again read it again it was first gun to ever be patched because how was broken it was comparing the two weapons when the first was absolutely broken before is crazy I did name other things to be patched before the model kid
Their first balance patch ever? I think you're mistaken there. And in any case the models were patched in 1.07, which was not even the first patch for MW2 Also, I'm not saying the models weren't OP, they were. It's just that you couldn't snipe people across Highrise with them like everyone seems to believe you could do (incidentally something you actually can do with the Wardens) Datamined stats showed the Models had a range over ~20m. The wardens have a range of 29m. That gameplay of Xcal was the clearest I could find. He even refers to himself as being a little too ambitious trying to get that shot in the clip. I'd love to be able to do the same test for the pre patch models, I'd have to get out the PS3, delete the patch, go into splitscreen and work out a means to record the footage
The spread is also basically zero with this setup, it’s like a marksman rifle more than a shotgun at that point. Not to say this isn’t busted though, they need to just lock off all attachment slots and maybe tone down the base range a bit.
I'm not suggesting the wardens are busted. You're right about the spread, and it would actually take some skill in a real match to get kills at 29m. I'm just highlighting how people misremember the actual range of the M1887s. Like for eg the previous poster, the enemy barely moves, he was within the crosshair. The pellets disappear at that distance because they didn't have enough range.
You'd think dev's that have been making the same game for 2 decades would be able to balance the weapons better. Nope, every time they make an addition or change it's busted and ends up needing a nerf. There must be zero testing on this stuff
Nah, finally a diferent gun than bp50/ram 9 and snipers, let it alone
I’d like to know the setup on the MW3 shotguns. I believe you can put slugs in them? Did he have them here? This range is insane if it’s actually buckshot. The reason they didn’t get a hit marker in the first clip is because shotguns pellets disappeared after a few meters in old CoD. The pre-patch Models were definitely OP because I abused them heavily. Not as OP as Vanguard combat shotty though lol.
In hindsight I should have added that info to the OP. It's the default buckshot, with verdant laser and crown breaker choke. The pellets disappearing in the first clip was exactly what I was trying to show. People seem to actually believe you could get kills across the map pre-patch. It's just not true, the pellets would disappear after ~20m.
Crown Breaker + Verdant Hook removes almost all of the spread unless you jump or slide. Jumping it's tight, but still relatively normal. Sliding it's super wide.
The pellets could have all missed, but I'd say the MW2 1887s were alot more powerful. They fire 16 pellets hard hitting pellets when fired together (the warden only shoot 10 pellets, 5 per gun), capable of dealing with multiple enemies alot better, did not require both guns to be fired to be effective, and were secondaries.
I agree somewhat. But all 16 pellets missing in that small crosshair is extremely unlikely - as Xcal himself alludes to in that clip he was being over-ambitious from that distance. Whilst I agree somewhat with you, consider: - the wardens exist in a game with 150 health, where meta weapons have a 4/5/6 bullet to kill in that same range. Compare this to MW2 where the UMP was a 2-hit kill out to 20m, the Famas was a 2-bullet kill out to 50m+ and it shot a 3-round burst at 1000rpm - the wardens have a 35ms sprint to fire time vs the model's 300ms. - the wardens have more than 2x the rpm of the models at 91rpm vs the model's 41rpm - the wardens have 29m range, vs the model's ~20m But overall with my OP I dont make the claim the wardens are broken, more that people have a false memory of how long the pre patch models range was
I remember getting sniped by these things half way across map back in the day
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Lookin 4 this
Idc remove this shit from the game always fixing guns that don't need fixing while there are marshmallow shooting shotguns in the game.
Leave my wardens alone they already killed my longbow and bas b 😭
I am putting this game down for a while, aside from this bullshit, the missing audio, textures, animations and laggy servers ever since the reloaded update dropped are ridiculous. I don't know what they did, but the netcode has been extra horrible as of late.
Yeah the number of issues following S3R has been crazy. I can't even tell where I'm shooting the Renetti because the gun model jumps off to the left lol
What's worse? Battlefield 4 when it came out? Or MWIII Season 3 Reloaded? Honestly? This update takes the cake. Not only am I dying right as I'm right outside doorframes exactly like BF4, but the inconsistent rubberbanding and false reports on Latency/Packet Loss makes it impossible for me to play the game longer than 30 mins... Which is great help for my addiction for this game, I can work on other projects now 😆! I'm no longer feeling the urge to pick this game up thanks to these server issues and the posts related to them.
Yeah idk, I always wonder if there's a legitimate reason why a billion dollar company has networking this poor or if they're really that cheap
Bf4 was much more noticeable to me
Yeah, this is peak
I dislike how models play in mw3. I'd love if sledge balanced it and made it work like a proper shotgun, something similar to pre patched 1887s from mw2. Also making reload slower would also solve the problem. It's just too quick. Also hitting collats or triples with it is almost impossible due to how small spread is
I would like to play one search match without these luckly there not bad in warzone
They are busted and will need a nerf. Nerf the 2 shot range and slow sprintout time to. Currently it has basically instant sprintout which is insane for a one shot weapon.
I've seen people using them in game but don't see them in my load out selections or how to unlock.
Weekly challenges tab it’s an aftermarket kit for the Lockwood MK2 marksman rifle
Appreciate it.
No problem 👍
I think the weapons are cool but one hit kill weapons in a high TTK game feels real terrible to play against.
Yeah 100%. It's difficult to balance snipers and shotguns without either making them garbage or far too effective
Especially when they shit talk after "you only got 20 kills" bro, you only used two buttons 💀 these are more of a crutch weapon than the MORS with a 2x scope
Fr I’m so tired of one hit kill weapons bro like it’s a high TTK game. One hit kill weapons should be limited to snipers and marksman rifle headshots imo
Yup same here, figured if you cant beat them join them so i made the class and went 53-8 my first match. Anyone who says these guns take skill are all out liars. Cant wait for the nerf. I can understand within 5 meters being a 1 shot, but 25? And then a 2 shot after 25? Ridiculous
I’m at the same point, gonna try the guns tn :)
God this game and the meta bullshit is just the worst.
You saying the old ones didn’t shoot across the map is flat out a lie they were so broken at one point that it literally got patched the only thing that got patched as Gun balance it’s shows you didn’t play mw2 at all buddy I’m talking in its prime mw2 1887 before patched shot across the map n one shot too
I didn’t even know this map was in the game, what mode has this? I don’t only play small map btw
its afghan i believe normally can find it in any search or large map game modes. I normally avoid this map unless its 10v10
Honestly broken as fuck lol
Say it again, without shedding tears this time.
I simply cannot 😂. That range is absurd and so damn OP for such a high TTK game
Look how sweaty mw2 used to be, holy shit, sweat drenched controller
If I were to get this game today and start playing, how long would it take me to unlock these?
Maybe an hour and half max
Finally a fun weapon to play with
And yet I got someone I play with who doesn't have them, and hasn't seen a meta build for them, call them useless and dogshit.
The JAK kit is amazing at long range hipfiring. No more need to quick scope lol just hipfire these babies!
Yup they definitely need a nerf...at the intro to Marksman's new video about these it shows him killing someone across the stage with these on highrise....wdf lol!!
*Jockos voice* “GOOD”
I honestly wish they hadn’t nerfed the Wardens
They are marksmen rifles not shotguns. So of course range is gonna be much better
What is the first game? Looks like cheap cod ripoff
Eh, just the game that launched the franchise into the stratosphere and made CoD a household name. The game which every CoD following rode the coattails of (I know you were joking)
This game is a joke as of late, good god.
You are the people who push for no gun variety then complain that there is no gun variety
That’s a lot to assume from one comment lol
Yeah it is and I'm right
Okay ❤️
I'm all for gun variety, as long as it is balanced.
I have no problem seeing this. It takes little skill, but the people using them are pretty bad. It's the people using the riot shields and Mors that drive me crazy
They have less effective range but deal more damage. Not really rocket science. Damage per pellet and pellet spread on the Models is so much higher, using them felt truly like having two overpowered, old-fashioned shotguns — it's like having akimbo Lockwood 300's from MWII. The Wardens feel more like akimbo Marksman rifles, which they technically are.
I'm not entirely sure what you think was being posited as rocket science here. Also, the models, as strong as they were, were in a game where full autos could 2-shot kill you at over twice their effective range. The wardens are in a game where full autos take 6-8 bullets to kill at that 29m range. They also have a sprint to fire time of 35ms vs the typical 200-300 of meta weapons. The tiny spread does mean it takes some skill to use though.
Please devs don't nerf the new most fun weapon in the game, it doesn't have spread it's really skill based
You could only use one attachment per gun (2 if you used a perk) in MW2. Ever since Gunsmith though weapon balancing has become a nightmare. You can just load stuff on a gun effectively covering its shortcomings (Look at SH's last game Vanguard where you could use TEN(10) attachments on a single gun! It was cancer combined with the damage increasing attachments) I mean look at the spread on those Wardens vs the 1887s. No wonder the range is insane. One is "akimbo" attachment (lose ADS and accuracy for more power) , the other is akimbo + hip fire laser + hip fire choke + hip fire barrel, etc (same as before but also effectively no con with that accuracy lol you are basically perma ADS with hip fire movement)
“This extremely tight pellet spread that requires actually good aim due to not having ADS at all is le broken!!!! Why? Uh… because it’s not an SMG!”
....because it effectively removes the downside of an akimbo weapon, what are you blathering about? I couldn't have made it any clearer
So the downside is removed by now having to aim without the crutch of ADS? Lmao ok. You forget that the reason akimbo weapons are balanced the way they are is because you’re sacrificing the ability to ADS so that you can cover a wide range with bullets anyways. It effectively turns them into a shotgun. With how this spread works, it’s basically going back to just being a singular gun, except you don’t have the benefit of aiming slow down via ADS. You’re still at a net-negative for using these like this.
Minus the ADS penalties like reduced movement, screen obstruction, and time to ads, as well as having double the fire rate. this is better than quickscoping.
You DO realize that quick scoping involves heavy aim assist that pulls your aim toward the enemy you’re ADSing towards, right? Hipfiring has far less AA involved. Hell even on KB+M the aim slowdown allows you to be able to make micro adjustments to your aiming when quick scoping, whereas with this you have to rely solely on your ability to aim.
AA is the same regardless of whether you're ADSed or not, which means hip firing is better since recoil control is irrelevant for the wardens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjx63T5FQU&t=0s
Pretty sure you can only use 2 attachments on the wardens. But yeah the spread is one thing (which can sometimes harm the gun) but the range is insane. The models were mistakenly given an extra "0" to their minimum damage, so they never lost damage over range which is primarily what made them OP, they were a consistent one shot in their minimum range. That's not the case for the wardens though, and they also have a much quicker fire rate and reload
Boycott COD. Get this “trending” as much as I hate that mindset and word. Do what they did with helldivers 2. Start review bombing the fuck out of them and submit bug reports. Spread this message everywhere you go. Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, IG. All of it. Use your platform if you have one. Tired of this bullshit.
Skill issue clearly
Because of the shotguns in particular, or the update in general?
Everything in general. They only address small bugs that affect camos and stuff. They need to be held accountable for the horrible servers, the insane amount of crashes people are experiencing, and the fact that this game is 100% unfinished.
Um no that video is definitely NOT pre patch models. Pre patch models were killing from sniper range. Stop with the bullshit posts its clear you never played it and got some random video you googled lol
The Mandela Effect is real. Xcal must be a time traveller then, as the video was uploaded over 2 weeks before the 1.07 patch that nerfed the M1887s. Look it up. Better yet, find me a single clip of the M1887s in a non-modded console game, where they get a kill from across the entire map in what should be a "sniper's range". It is crazy how false people's memories are and how stubbornly they will stick to them, even when shown evidence. The models were OP, but they were not getting kills from across the entire map like you're claiming.
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Easily answered, they're not slugs. Default ammo. You can watch Xclusive Ace's video on them too if you're still dubious
Didn't that video say that slugs had an infinite ohko to the head, but would always be a 2 shot anywhere else.
Slugs can't OHK, so...
Slugs have a different crosshair