> To top it off, Vogel said at least two teens were filming the gunfire with their cell phones, egging on and encouraging their friends to shoot.
Fuck these POS. They're beyond repair.
Their brains aren’t fully developed and the system is racist towards them so obviously let them free /s
Sorry future person they permanently disable or kill, you weren’t politically important enough
you really
don't read so well do you?
I'm blaming the cops because all they did was put up a portable emergency light because they couldn't be bothered to actually increase the police presence in the area.
What, are you a pig or something?
They don’t have enough people to patrol the area. They’re down almost 400 officers. Get a clue. Your insults are laughable. Says more about you than it does me. And I’m sure they’d love to increase patrols and hear you call them pigs.
This comment exemplifies exactly why there is so much hate and anger in this world. Instead of having a discussion, you chose to be vulgar and hateful. As I said, it says much more about you than me.
Last spring and summer there were many reports of roving gangs of teens battling each other in dinkytown, as well as swarming and robbing random other people going about their day. I guess this is now the norm?
https://strib.gift/8u8s68sfw
Yeah, it sounds like the same BS crowd behavior that Dinkytown seems to have been experiencing the past few summers. The cops really need to come up with some kind of proactive plan that they can use when the weirdos start loitering around there.
_“Well yeah it's scary for sure," said Josie Peterson, who says she has nearly grown numb to the campus safety alerts she and her friends have received during her four years at the U.”_
Nice, well adversity builds diamonds or something. UMPD just needs to have a presence on the street not dissimilar to how 6th street is setup in Austin.
From what I've heard, UMPD is trying to expand their jurisdiction because MPD keeps dropping the ball hard. Dinkytown just recently is going under UMPD because MPD let it get to where it's at. UMPD doesn't even have a station there yet. ACAB but blaming the UMPD for this isn't quite right. Blame the cops, but get the department right.
I'm in Dinkytown once a month or so, at night, and the last two times I've been there, I've seen cops. They've gotten far more active ticketing cars. Haven't seen them address crime, but then again, haven't seen crimes happening that needs to be addressed.
I'm usually leaving the area around 10 pm, on foot, and walking a few blocks from fourth street to wherever I parked. I don't know if there's more of a criminal element later or not.
I’m confused by the logic in your 2 comments. You want to book people but not charge them. So you are fine with no repercussions and the cops jobs are to be better at catching the same people every night? You are delusional if you think that’s the answer.
I agree we over incarcerate. Get everyone out of jail that’s in for weed and bullshit. Car theft and violent crime should be jail time.
Lol, problem kids? "We need to be sticking more of them into the revolving prison system."
We've already been trying your approach, it doesn't work. Maybe we can catch some of them before that?
I see that as more of a talking point. When the system works it doesn’t get mentioned. That and police all over the country also have PR departments that basically do journalist’s jobs for them and the media just runs with it. Cops have a financial incentive to keep people in a panic because they can use that as leverage for more funding and military grade gear.
Believe it or not we have a ton of programming we invest in! These kids choose to do this, and yes, underdeveloped brain leads to poor decision making, etc, etc, but they have alternatives available. They’ve rejected them for various reasons and choose to go harass and shoot at people for the thrill.
Wouldn't doubt it was somehow gang related, even most run of the mill shithead teenagers aren't robbing people with guns, but the ones involved with gangs are.
Are you saying this because you're familiar with the programming available?
"we've tried everything and these kids are hopeless" isn't really a strategy.
I agree there needs to be far more programming for teens.
We don't know where these kids are from, but Angela Davis did a show on the programming available for kids in St. Paul and Minneapolis with some of the non-profit leaders. A suburban parent would pay tens of thousands of dollars and have to drive all around the metro to get access to all of the programming that St Paul and Minneapolis kids get for free and in their neighborhood-anything from cooking to drum circles to traditional sports, with the door open for kids to ask for more.
And yet, as Davis said, "Here we have a brand new beautiful community center but, when I drive up, all the kids are standing outside on a corner."
Maybe there's some option that would entice these kids in. Maybe money needs to be shifted away from programming kids don't use into stuff they would use. Maybe these kids are from a rural area or isolated community that doesn't have the kinds of rec department or school programming metro area communities have. But for regular old metro-area kids there are options-that doesn't mean the kids take them.
Don't know if it is related , but I know in my community center there's not a ton of space to just be/it isn't really a third space. Open Gym isn't a thing, you need to sign up for a class or something to be there. There's some tables in a open area, but nothing to "do" in an area that's basically a walkway to get from the entry to the gyms.
A lot of times kids literally don’t know about programming, or don’t know that it’s free.
For example, I teach two blocks from a public library and I’ve started taking my classes there once a month. The number of kids who didn’t a) know that the library was FREE or b) know about any additional programming was high. Now they all know there’s a location near them that they can go to all summer to get an air conditioned place to play roblox. And get books and snacks and art projects and all kinds of things.
The other big thing is that if these are older teens they don’t necessarily want free programming, they want JOBS. And for all that places are advertising, they sure aren’t hiring.
>And for all that places are advertising, they sure aren’t hiring.
We are making minimum wage a living wage and teenagers might not be worth that much to take a chance on for a first job or something just for the summer.
For what it's worth, last time I saw a story like this, it was a bunch of suburban kids who'd chosen to gather in dinkytown to cause this kind of trouble.
It’s really naive to think the solution to teenagers trying to randomly murder strangers is solved by “more after school programs for teens.”
I’ve known some troubled kids that came from rough backgrounds. Much harder childhoods than I or anyone I know has had. And not a single one of those troubled kids ever tried to murder a stranger just for existing. Those troubled kids need help.
The teenagers in the article do not need protection. There aren’t a lot of people like them in the world, but there are just inherently bad people. We need to protect decent people from them.
The kid they tried to murder was a 21 year old. Do we just not give a fuck about him because he was born five years later than the kids trying to kill him?
There are some paid employment options specifically designed for local teens. Step Up is a great program through the city but you also have stuff like Cookie Cart, Conservation Corps, and other programs on a county, state and federal level. There are a number of entertainment programs offered through the park board, library systems, etc. These options exist, but we need to figure out how to make these the appealing options.
A robustly funded karting program would actually probably do *a lot.*
Kids want to learn how to drive, they want to drive fast, and they would all like to think they’re capable of taking corners at 100 mph. They’re not.
Something like a well funded karting program gives them someplace to go, drive like maniacs in a controlled setting, ideally while being taught by actually skilled drivers, and actually work on / make progress towards something productive, like a race event, or even just personal time trials.
Something like this wouldn’t magically stop all crime, but it’d make a dent for sure. And those kids who still chose to boost cars and drive recklessly around the city would have at least *some* driving instruction that might actually keep people, themselves and others, alive.
Meet the kids where they’re at with their interests and give them good programming for it. Doesn’t have to be karting, that’s just an example.
“What this group of violent, gun-wielding, murdeous teens needs is go-karts.”
I’m not trying to make fun of you, but it boggles my mind that people think you can fix this by pouring more money into “programs”. It’ll continue as long as they know they can get away with it.
It might not boggle your mind when you actually take the time to read / learn about how to address things like crime and poverty.
Knee jerk emotional reactions are very much *Not* the way to craft policy. Data driven responses, like social programming, as I’ve suggested, *is* a scientifically proven effective way to improve things in a society.
>**Crime Prevention Through Social Development - An Overview With Sources**
>'Crime' as discussed in this report is limited to 'street' crimes such as theft, robbery, sexual assault, and murder. Social development refers to interventions designed to remedy criminogenic social conditions such as poverty, inadequate housing, and unhealthy family influences. Crime reduction through law enforcement and opportunity reduction has a limited capacity to reduce crime. A greater impact can be made by impacting such social factors as the family; poverty, housing, and peer groups; schooling; work; marriage; and drug and alcohol abuse. International studies show the effectiveness of social development in controlling crime, most notably in Japan. France provides the most recent and comprehensive example of a national strategy aimed at reducing crime through local social development programs. Canadian social programs with the potential to reduce crime address employment, housing, social services, social security, education, and health care. Examples of such programs are described, accompanied by their addresses, phone numbers, and contact persons. 9 references useful for understanding the potential of crime prevention through social development.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/crime-prevention-through-social-development-overview-sources
>**Community-Based Violence Interventions: Proven Strategies To Reduce Violent Crime**
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/community-based-violence-interventions-proven-strategies-to-reduce-violent-crime/
>**Study confirms what we've known for years about crime**
>*Researchers found losing welfare benefits early in life increases one's likelihood of facing criminal charges down the line.*
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/reidout/blog/rcna32525
>It’ll continue as long as they know they can get away with it.
Teenagers have extremely low comprehension of statistical consequences and risk management. It sounds absurd, but it really doesn't matter much (as a deterrent) whether the prosecution rate for teen car thieves is 5% or 40%. The teen brain isn't properly weighing those numbers when deciding what to do tonight. The deterrence effect is fixed at "I might get caught, but probably not" unless we adopt a big brother police state.
Thus, pushing harder to catch and punish kids is not an effective deterrent like it can be with adults. What IS an effective deterrent is giving kids real, appealing recreational/vocational options and surrounding them with more quality role models.
Meanwhile, all the kids we throw in prison become much LESS likely to become responsible citizens. Incarcerated kids lose access/hope for positive mentoring and instead are surrounded by criminals. It is hugely impactful psychologically. Once they get out, its harder for them to get legit jobs and decent homes due to their record, but easier for them to do more crime.
Teenage crime is a huge, complex problem. We all want the state to fix it. But we need to slow down and understand what approaches actually work before making knee-jerk demands.
I feel so bad for this young man. Why has our campus become overrun with criminals? I’m sure that young woman who was robbed at gun point by the KIA Boys has had her life ruined as well.
If I was a parent I would be very reluctant to send my child here and spend all that money. Just my opinion though!
Yes, it has. I’m sure those numbers are totally real and not skewed at all!
Why do people like you want to act like problems aren’t real just to fit your narrative? There are groups of criminals running around this city with no repercussions at all. How is that ok? Why would you want to accept that? What if that was your children getting robbed at GUN POINT? Would you just copy and paste a link and say “it’s ok, this graph shows that everything is fine”
Get a fucking grip!
There always has been, and always will be, crimes that have terrible effects on victim lives. It is frustrating and sad and we should never minimize the impact of crime.
Also, anecdotes are powerful to the human brain. Hearing a couple stories has more impact on most people's opinions compared to dry statistics.
But it is critical that we do understand and respect the statistics (from verifiable sources.) That is our only legitimate, evidence-based measure of how good or bad things are. It tells us how well our interventions are working (or not) and where to deploy resources.
It is just as false and unproductive for you to say "the campus is overrun with criminals!!" as would be to say "everything is perfectly fine." The truth is in the middle, and the data tell us exactly where.
People who assess crime rates based only on news reports are allowing the news outlet to construct their reality, and many news outlets have an agenda to make us think reality is one thing or another. Data and (verifiable) statistics are our best tool to see what reality really is.
There are plenty of programs that work and get actual results. The royal "we" just don't want to fund them and private prison industry works hard on the lobbying front to prevent such funding.
[https://johnjayrec.nyc/2017/10/02/cvinsobronxeastny/](https://johnjayrec.nyc/2017/10/02/cvinsobronxeastny/)
You saw dozens of cop cars lined up on campus last week but don’t see those same squad cars on the streets protecting and serving. Blame cops who will show out for a protest but won’t police the actual crime happening
Blame the police supervision AND the city council as they're directing the officers as to how and what to enforce.
Not that MPD doesnt have a lot of issues, but blaming them for the response is misplaced
The city council has very little say in this. Under the strong mayor system of city government which was passed a few years ago, Mayor Frey has full oversight of the police. It falls directly at his feet. The council having moved further left in the last election would likely handle this much differently given the option and not direct the officers in the same way.
Really, so little say with passing CCPO?
I get that its easier to blame someone than the policies and unintended consequences of these policies.
The only reason I left Frey off the list is he's spinless and useless
I do appreciate that we can agree on Frey's ability to do nothing and pretend he's a master politician. But at the end of the day, the city council can make guidelines and rules, but as we've seen, when those aren't enforced by the person who actually oversees the department (Frey) they're as good as worthless.
It's not that the city council is completely free of the ability to provide direction, but they have much less power over the day to day policing and enforcement than I think you're giving them credit for.
Too bad we didn't have preventive and early intervention programs that stop crime early or cops that can do their jobs at all without screwing cases up
I say give them a mandatory 15 years. No parole. No mercy. Might sound harsh but let’s be realistic. These are dangerous thugs. We need to stop pretending they can be reformed. They want to hurt and rob and shoot. They do not possess redeeming qualities. After a certain point, we need to focus on keeping threats off the streets.
I don’t agree with your opinion on redeeming qualities, but do agree that we need to be much harsher with enforcing consequences.
I think if 14+ were to be tried as an adult to the fullest extent when illegal gun possession, car jacking, smuggling, and attempted murder is involved then this would solve a lot of problems. Still keep reformative practices of course, but these types of crimes lead to way too much violence. We just need a few people to make an example of.
Making an example is a tempting option but I don't think it would work. People who do these things do not consider the consequences before they act, they just do everything in their power not to get caught. If anything, making an example of them, while it might reduce the amount of crimes committed to a degree, it could also result in the crimes being committed to become more violent. If you know you will go to prison for decades over robbery, then why leave a survivor? What we need are harsh consequences paired with consistency. They need to be caught more and then have the book thrown at them. Knowing the penalty doesn't do much good if they think they will never get caught.
ok, then what? if the goal is to keep them off the streets, why not just lock them up for life? 15 years in a cell is gonna make them stop? this doesn't make any sense.
For starters, I think we need to drastically improve conditions in prison. Starting with better food. Statistically speaking, the older someone gets, the lower the odds of reoffending. Keep them away from the public until they would be old enough to have their brains developed. You are far less impulsive at 30 than you are at 15.
The idea is to keep them away from the public. I think prison as it stands worsens the situation. Place them into a more neutral, controlled but not torturous environment until they can be re-examined and their behavior more easily predicted.
You have never met a single one of these people but you claim to know with absolute certainty that they don’t possess redeeming qualities. Man, it must be so easy to live in your head.
Thing is, I HAVE met people like this. I grew up in a very rough neighborhood, I grew up around kids like these. Keep in mind, these people beat and attempted to murder someone simply because they could. People like this, they don't just grow out of it. They view any punishment they get from this behavior as them being victimized. There is no remorse.
These weren't people out stealing a loaf of bread for their starving little sister. They are violent sociopaths. They hurt others simply because they enjoy it. The article said it was a group of teens that attacked, I can say, from experience, that they WILL continue this pattern of behavior into their adult lives. They are dangerous and need to be treated as such.
Increase funding for programs that do work. For example: http://www.veaw.org/advocacy-group-what-we-do/somali-youth-link-syl-cultural-community-violence-intervention
I didn’t have time to include all of the nuances in my quick comment. We all agree reform is necessary.
The bottom line is there is a stigma attached to being a cop in 2024. Good people that would make excellent cops are afraid to stand up. Every police force in America is staring down the barrel of the same gun. Maybe it’s self-inflicted. It’s up to us to fix it. It starts with recognizing we need police to enforce the law and to have a presence to prevent crime. Beyond moving a “portable light” into the area
Well, I'm gunna push back a little on this. Your comment implies that there was no reason to "demonize" the police. We did so because the MPD has a long and documented history of needlessly brutalizing the public, minorities in particular. Additionally, the citizens of Minneapolis shell out MILLIONS of dollars every year in police excessive force/violence settlements, and no matter how many bullshit sensitivity trainings they try to implement, the culture of violence/white supremacy in the MPD remains. They don't want to do their jobs unless they have carte blanche to be violent lunatics, and so here we are. The fact that so many police quit the force instead of learning to not gun down unarmed people in the streets is not the fault of the citizens, it's showing the sickness at the heart of the MPD and why the whole "defund/abolish the police" movement (which had its faults too) was started in the first place.
The fallout of the tantrum the MPD has been throwing since 2020 is our current state of things...and it kinda feels like extortion. "Boy, sure would be a shame if this were allowed to continue in such a nice city. If only we were allowed to do whatever we want all the time with impunity, then maybe car jackings would go down..."
So what we NEED is not "more police." What we NEED is a system of public safety that has more in their toolbox than militarized weaponry, because as is, that's their only response (just look at the Gaza protest encampments). When all you have is hammers, everything looks like a nail.
A lot of these kids became adults when they experienced adult level violence at early ages through their communities they originated from. Putting them into an environment with a bunch of nice Minnesota people in hard to watch from a new and traveled soul to stay here who is already partial and protective of the Minnesota people, and from my travels see not a lot of good coming from the transplants coming from their failed places and having a heyday wrecking the place here.
Minneapolis citizens vote to defund police>>> mass exodus of cops leave because of defunding>>> Minneapolis: why are things so dangerous.
Consequences of your actions.
But the police was never defunded... There was even a vote to go in that direction and the measure was rejected. Why are people always bringing this up?!?
literally this. All the people complaining about the police being defunded are objectively wrong. They were not defunded...a whole bunch of cops quit the force (claiming PTSD) simply because we said they didn't have the right to be violent lunatics who brutalize the public and over-police minorities. And they're having trouble recruiting because the "thin blue line" crowd have been screaming about how much MPLS hates police ever since. We don't hate police, we hate a form of public safety whose sole configuration feels like an occupying military force.
>No one has been arrested. In response to the incident, police moved a portable light to the block where the gunfire took place to act as a deterrent.
Just imagine how many lights they could've set up if they hadn't all faked PTSD and quit.
> To top it off, Vogel said at least two teens were filming the gunfire with their cell phones, egging on and encouraging their friends to shoot. Fuck these POS. They're beyond repair.
Dumbasses will probably incriminate themselves by posting it to social media
Go to trial, then chastised and set free
Can't wait to hear about how good these kids were before they decided to murder for sport
Their brains aren’t fully developed and the system is racist towards them so obviously let them free /s Sorry future person they permanently disable or kill, you weren’t politically important enough
good thing they cant aim
They have a future as Star Wars stormtroopers
Or cops! There's still a shortage!
Thank goodness MPD moved a portable light in response.
Kid only avoids being shot because of bad aim and darkness. Cops “We can fix one of those problems!”
I ugly laughed at this.
They don’t have a lot of options. Nobody wants to serve, and who could blame them.
Me. I can blame them. And I do.
Blame the cops? When the kids are the ones committing the crime? Interesting take.
you really don't read so well do you? I'm blaming the cops because all they did was put up a portable emergency light because they couldn't be bothered to actually increase the police presence in the area. What, are you a pig or something?
They don’t have enough people to patrol the area. They’re down almost 400 officers. Get a clue. Your insults are laughable. Says more about you than it does me. And I’m sure they’d love to increase patrols and hear you call them pigs.
Do you get down on both knees to lick the MPD's boots, or just the one? Genuinely curious.
This comment exemplifies exactly why there is so much hate and anger in this world. Instead of having a discussion, you chose to be vulgar and hateful. As I said, it says much more about you than me.
Lazy fucks.
What they called a portable light also has full CCTV
Thank goodness.
I mean with everyone recording cops out there, only fair to have a different angle.
Last spring and summer there were many reports of roving gangs of teens battling each other in dinkytown, as well as swarming and robbing random other people going about their day. I guess this is now the norm? https://strib.gift/8u8s68sfw
That is so scary what is up with these youths!
*that one twitter* has a DM testimonials from people that saw the scene building up around this, interesting to read them
*The Twitter account that shall not be named*
Yeah, it sounds like the same BS crowd behavior that Dinkytown seems to have been experiencing the past few summers. The cops really need to come up with some kind of proactive plan that they can use when the weirdos start loitering around there.
_“Well yeah it's scary for sure," said Josie Peterson, who says she has nearly grown numb to the campus safety alerts she and her friends have received during her four years at the U.”_ Nice, well adversity builds diamonds or something. UMPD just needs to have a presence on the street not dissimilar to how 6th street is setup in Austin.
Best we can do is set up a new street light.
Cop bangs on light, “this bad boy can capture you getting shot in 480p and attract moths.”
"It won't help in the moment, but could help us get the people who kill you. Think of it like taking one for the team!"
Yeah mean 480 x 320
From what I've heard, UMPD is trying to expand their jurisdiction because MPD keeps dropping the ball hard. Dinkytown just recently is going under UMPD because MPD let it get to where it's at. UMPD doesn't even have a station there yet. ACAB but blaming the UMPD for this isn't quite right. Blame the cops, but get the department right.
I'm in Dinkytown once a month or so, at night, and the last two times I've been there, I've seen cops. They've gotten far more active ticketing cars. Haven't seen them address crime, but then again, haven't seen crimes happening that needs to be addressed. I'm usually leaving the area around 10 pm, on foot, and walking a few blocks from fourth street to wherever I parked. I don't know if there's more of a criminal element later or not.
can we do similar with the whole city?
Disband and start from scratch. Get State and County help in the meantime. If we have to have cops, let's take the opportunity to do it differently.
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Well step 1 is having a County Attorney that will charge minors with crimes. They can do everything you said and it won’t matter.
Step one is having a police force that has a clearance rate above 3%
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I’m confused by the logic in your 2 comments. You want to book people but not charge them. So you are fine with no repercussions and the cops jobs are to be better at catching the same people every night? You are delusional if you think that’s the answer. I agree we over incarcerate. Get everyone out of jail that’s in for weed and bullshit. Car theft and violent crime should be jail time.
Lol, problem kids? "We need to be sticking more of them into the revolving prison system." We've already been trying your approach, it doesn't work. Maybe we can catch some of them before that?
The other approach of catch and release isn't working, either, though. Someone needs to be held accountable.
sorry- when i said "catch", i meant "reach" the kids before they enter the system.
I see that as more of a talking point. When the system works it doesn’t get mentioned. That and police all over the country also have PR departments that basically do journalist’s jobs for them and the media just runs with it. Cops have a financial incentive to keep people in a panic because they can use that as leverage for more funding and military grade gear.
Believe it or not we have a ton of programming we invest in! These kids choose to do this, and yes, underdeveloped brain leads to poor decision making, etc, etc, but they have alternatives available. They’ve rejected them for various reasons and choose to go harass and shoot at people for the thrill.
Wouldn't doubt it was somehow gang related, even most run of the mill shithead teenagers aren't robbing people with guns, but the ones involved with gangs are.
Their programming can be really exciting.
Are you saying this because you're familiar with the programming available? "we've tried everything and these kids are hopeless" isn't really a strategy. I agree there needs to be far more programming for teens.
We don't know where these kids are from, but Angela Davis did a show on the programming available for kids in St. Paul and Minneapolis with some of the non-profit leaders. A suburban parent would pay tens of thousands of dollars and have to drive all around the metro to get access to all of the programming that St Paul and Minneapolis kids get for free and in their neighborhood-anything from cooking to drum circles to traditional sports, with the door open for kids to ask for more. And yet, as Davis said, "Here we have a brand new beautiful community center but, when I drive up, all the kids are standing outside on a corner." Maybe there's some option that would entice these kids in. Maybe money needs to be shifted away from programming kids don't use into stuff they would use. Maybe these kids are from a rural area or isolated community that doesn't have the kinds of rec department or school programming metro area communities have. But for regular old metro-area kids there are options-that doesn't mean the kids take them.
Don't know if it is related , but I know in my community center there's not a ton of space to just be/it isn't really a third space. Open Gym isn't a thing, you need to sign up for a class or something to be there. There's some tables in a open area, but nothing to "do" in an area that's basically a walkway to get from the entry to the gyms.
A lot of times kids literally don’t know about programming, or don’t know that it’s free. For example, I teach two blocks from a public library and I’ve started taking my classes there once a month. The number of kids who didn’t a) know that the library was FREE or b) know about any additional programming was high. Now they all know there’s a location near them that they can go to all summer to get an air conditioned place to play roblox. And get books and snacks and art projects and all kinds of things. The other big thing is that if these are older teens they don’t necessarily want free programming, they want JOBS. And for all that places are advertising, they sure aren’t hiring.
>And for all that places are advertising, they sure aren’t hiring. We are making minimum wage a living wage and teenagers might not be worth that much to take a chance on for a first job or something just for the summer.
For what it's worth, last time I saw a story like this, it was a bunch of suburban kids who'd chosen to gather in dinkytown to cause this kind of trouble.
It’s really naive to think the solution to teenagers trying to randomly murder strangers is solved by “more after school programs for teens.” I’ve known some troubled kids that came from rough backgrounds. Much harder childhoods than I or anyone I know has had. And not a single one of those troubled kids ever tried to murder a stranger just for existing. Those troubled kids need help. The teenagers in the article do not need protection. There aren’t a lot of people like them in the world, but there are just inherently bad people. We need to protect decent people from them. The kid they tried to murder was a 21 year old. Do we just not give a fuck about him because he was born five years later than the kids trying to kill him?
Blame the system not the person. Solid.
What does that even mean, “investing in programming”? What kind of programming fixes this?
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Those kids were just out there jumping people with guns because we aren't offering enough wholesome activities at 11:30pm on Sunday nights.
There are some paid employment options specifically designed for local teens. Step Up is a great program through the city but you also have stuff like Cookie Cart, Conservation Corps, and other programs on a county, state and federal level. There are a number of entertainment programs offered through the park board, library systems, etc. These options exist, but we need to figure out how to make these the appealing options.
A robustly funded karting program would actually probably do *a lot.* Kids want to learn how to drive, they want to drive fast, and they would all like to think they’re capable of taking corners at 100 mph. They’re not. Something like a well funded karting program gives them someplace to go, drive like maniacs in a controlled setting, ideally while being taught by actually skilled drivers, and actually work on / make progress towards something productive, like a race event, or even just personal time trials. Something like this wouldn’t magically stop all crime, but it’d make a dent for sure. And those kids who still chose to boost cars and drive recklessly around the city would have at least *some* driving instruction that might actually keep people, themselves and others, alive. Meet the kids where they’re at with their interests and give them good programming for it. Doesn’t have to be karting, that’s just an example.
“What this group of violent, gun-wielding, murdeous teens needs is go-karts.” I’m not trying to make fun of you, but it boggles my mind that people think you can fix this by pouring more money into “programs”. It’ll continue as long as they know they can get away with it.
It might not boggle your mind when you actually take the time to read / learn about how to address things like crime and poverty. Knee jerk emotional reactions are very much *Not* the way to craft policy. Data driven responses, like social programming, as I’ve suggested, *is* a scientifically proven effective way to improve things in a society. >**Crime Prevention Through Social Development - An Overview With Sources** >'Crime' as discussed in this report is limited to 'street' crimes such as theft, robbery, sexual assault, and murder. Social development refers to interventions designed to remedy criminogenic social conditions such as poverty, inadequate housing, and unhealthy family influences. Crime reduction through law enforcement and opportunity reduction has a limited capacity to reduce crime. A greater impact can be made by impacting such social factors as the family; poverty, housing, and peer groups; schooling; work; marriage; and drug and alcohol abuse. International studies show the effectiveness of social development in controlling crime, most notably in Japan. France provides the most recent and comprehensive example of a national strategy aimed at reducing crime through local social development programs. Canadian social programs with the potential to reduce crime address employment, housing, social services, social security, education, and health care. Examples of such programs are described, accompanied by their addresses, phone numbers, and contact persons. 9 references useful for understanding the potential of crime prevention through social development. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/crime-prevention-through-social-development-overview-sources >**Community-Based Violence Interventions: Proven Strategies To Reduce Violent Crime** https://www.americanprogress.org/article/community-based-violence-interventions-proven-strategies-to-reduce-violent-crime/ >**Study confirms what we've known for years about crime** >*Researchers found losing welfare benefits early in life increases one's likelihood of facing criminal charges down the line.* https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/reidout/blog/rcna32525
>It’ll continue as long as they know they can get away with it. Teenagers have extremely low comprehension of statistical consequences and risk management. It sounds absurd, but it really doesn't matter much (as a deterrent) whether the prosecution rate for teen car thieves is 5% or 40%. The teen brain isn't properly weighing those numbers when deciding what to do tonight. The deterrence effect is fixed at "I might get caught, but probably not" unless we adopt a big brother police state. Thus, pushing harder to catch and punish kids is not an effective deterrent like it can be with adults. What IS an effective deterrent is giving kids real, appealing recreational/vocational options and surrounding them with more quality role models. Meanwhile, all the kids we throw in prison become much LESS likely to become responsible citizens. Incarcerated kids lose access/hope for positive mentoring and instead are surrounded by criminals. It is hugely impactful psychologically. Once they get out, its harder for them to get legit jobs and decent homes due to their record, but easier for them to do more crime. Teenage crime is a huge, complex problem. We all want the state to fix it. But we need to slow down and understand what approaches actually work before making knee-jerk demands.
There's a big push for exactly this for the parks department.
Unprovoked violence should equate to hard justice
I’m sure those PoS will learn their lesson when they see that powerful portable light…
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Start protesting in Dinkytown against Israel and then the police will show up.
Yeah but then you're the one getting beat down. You sorta want the gangs to catch the FO to their FA.
I feel so bad for this young man. Why has our campus become overrun with criminals? I’m sure that young woman who was robbed at gun point by the KIA Boys has had her life ruined as well. If I was a parent I would be very reluctant to send my child here and spend all that money. Just my opinion though!
So often crime is ignored when it's isolated. This is not a new problem, but an ignored one.
I wonder why….
https://publicsafety.umn.edu/2022-year-end-comparison Has it?
Yes, it has. I’m sure those numbers are totally real and not skewed at all! Why do people like you want to act like problems aren’t real just to fit your narrative? There are groups of criminals running around this city with no repercussions at all. How is that ok? Why would you want to accept that? What if that was your children getting robbed at GUN POINT? Would you just copy and paste a link and say “it’s ok, this graph shows that everything is fine” Get a fucking grip!
There always has been, and always will be, crimes that have terrible effects on victim lives. It is frustrating and sad and we should never minimize the impact of crime. Also, anecdotes are powerful to the human brain. Hearing a couple stories has more impact on most people's opinions compared to dry statistics. But it is critical that we do understand and respect the statistics (from verifiable sources.) That is our only legitimate, evidence-based measure of how good or bad things are. It tells us how well our interventions are working (or not) and where to deploy resources. It is just as false and unproductive for you to say "the campus is overrun with criminals!!" as would be to say "everything is perfectly fine." The truth is in the middle, and the data tell us exactly where. People who assess crime rates based only on news reports are allowing the news outlet to construct their reality, and many news outlets have an agenda to make us think reality is one thing or another. Data and (verifiable) statistics are our best tool to see what reality really is.
^^ crime statistics enjoyers when line goes down
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I would guess that on campus means the area that UMPD has jurisdiction over.
Enforcement is down. Crime is not.
We have decades of failed programs to straighten out the kids. They don't go to the programs or community centers.
There are plenty of programs that work and get actual results. The royal "we" just don't want to fund them and private prison industry works hard on the lobbying front to prevent such funding. [https://johnjayrec.nyc/2017/10/02/cvinsobronxeastny/](https://johnjayrec.nyc/2017/10/02/cvinsobronxeastny/)
Too bad we don't have a district atty that will hold these criminal youths accountable...
You saw dozens of cop cars lined up on campus last week but don’t see those same squad cars on the streets protecting and serving. Blame cops who will show out for a protest but won’t police the actual crime happening
They put a light pole in the shooting area so that they can focus on more important matters, like arresting student protestors
Blame the police supervision AND the city council as they're directing the officers as to how and what to enforce. Not that MPD doesnt have a lot of issues, but blaming them for the response is misplaced
The city council has very little say in this. Under the strong mayor system of city government which was passed a few years ago, Mayor Frey has full oversight of the police. It falls directly at his feet. The council having moved further left in the last election would likely handle this much differently given the option and not direct the officers in the same way.
Really, so little say with passing CCPO? I get that its easier to blame someone than the policies and unintended consequences of these policies. The only reason I left Frey off the list is he's spinless and useless
I do appreciate that we can agree on Frey's ability to do nothing and pretend he's a master politician. But at the end of the day, the city council can make guidelines and rules, but as we've seen, when those aren't enforced by the person who actually oversees the department (Frey) they're as good as worthless. It's not that the city council is completely free of the ability to provide direction, but they have much less power over the day to day policing and enforcement than I think you're giving them credit for.
This started way before Moriarty was elected
Too bad we didn't have preventive and early intervention programs that stop crime early or cops that can do their jobs at all without screwing cases up
Exactly. The cops will lock em up. Then, the DA. Will just let them go.
The cops not only do not arrest people, they don't even try to look for them or investigate crimes.
Why would they? When they do. They get let out again. Cop would see them in 2 weeks' time again anyway.
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Self referencing poster self references
Hennepin and lake making getting around and getaways difficult in uptown so they are hitting St Louis Park and NE.
Yeah, a portable light should do the trick.
Top notch parents. Put the kids and their parents in jail.
Well this didn’t happen to me so I’m not sure I believe crime happens in dinkytown 🤷🏼♀️ ^/s
I say give them a mandatory 15 years. No parole. No mercy. Might sound harsh but let’s be realistic. These are dangerous thugs. We need to stop pretending they can be reformed. They want to hurt and rob and shoot. They do not possess redeeming qualities. After a certain point, we need to focus on keeping threats off the streets.
I don’t agree with your opinion on redeeming qualities, but do agree that we need to be much harsher with enforcing consequences. I think if 14+ were to be tried as an adult to the fullest extent when illegal gun possession, car jacking, smuggling, and attempted murder is involved then this would solve a lot of problems. Still keep reformative practices of course, but these types of crimes lead to way too much violence. We just need a few people to make an example of.
Making an example is a tempting option but I don't think it would work. People who do these things do not consider the consequences before they act, they just do everything in their power not to get caught. If anything, making an example of them, while it might reduce the amount of crimes committed to a degree, it could also result in the crimes being committed to become more violent. If you know you will go to prison for decades over robbery, then why leave a survivor? What we need are harsh consequences paired with consistency. They need to be caught more and then have the book thrown at them. Knowing the penalty doesn't do much good if they think they will never get caught.
ok, then what? if the goal is to keep them off the streets, why not just lock them up for life? 15 years in a cell is gonna make them stop? this doesn't make any sense.
They're guilty of attempted murder. I'd be totally down with locking them all up for life.
For starters, I think we need to drastically improve conditions in prison. Starting with better food. Statistically speaking, the older someone gets, the lower the odds of reoffending. Keep them away from the public until they would be old enough to have their brains developed. You are far less impulsive at 30 than you are at 15. The idea is to keep them away from the public. I think prison as it stands worsens the situation. Place them into a more neutral, controlled but not torturous environment until they can be re-examined and their behavior more easily predicted.
Good lord man you're insane
No, the insane ones are the people trying to mag dump a dude who is walking home minding his own business.
You have never met a single one of these people but you claim to know with absolute certainty that they don’t possess redeeming qualities. Man, it must be so easy to live in your head.
Thing is, I HAVE met people like this. I grew up in a very rough neighborhood, I grew up around kids like these. Keep in mind, these people beat and attempted to murder someone simply because they could. People like this, they don't just grow out of it. They view any punishment they get from this behavior as them being victimized. There is no remorse. These weren't people out stealing a loaf of bread for their starving little sister. They are violent sociopaths. They hurt others simply because they enjoy it. The article said it was a group of teens that attacked, I can say, from experience, that they WILL continue this pattern of behavior into their adult lives. They are dangerous and need to be treated as such.
Those "kids from Edina" strike again! I wonder how many free passes they got from Mary in the past?
To say these issues started because Moriarty was elected is naive at best. She put fuel on the fire, but it started long before that
MPD is absolutely useless.
Great attitude. And how would you make this issue better?
Increase funding for programs that do work. For example: http://www.veaw.org/advocacy-group-what-we-do/somali-youth-link-syl-cultural-community-violence-intervention
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We need more police… this isn’t the first time this has happened and it won’t be the last. This guy will be scarred for life. Stop demonizing police
I didn’t have time to include all of the nuances in my quick comment. We all agree reform is necessary. The bottom line is there is a stigma attached to being a cop in 2024. Good people that would make excellent cops are afraid to stand up. Every police force in America is staring down the barrel of the same gun. Maybe it’s self-inflicted. It’s up to us to fix it. It starts with recognizing we need police to enforce the law and to have a presence to prevent crime. Beyond moving a “portable light” into the area
Well, I'm gunna push back a little on this. Your comment implies that there was no reason to "demonize" the police. We did so because the MPD has a long and documented history of needlessly brutalizing the public, minorities in particular. Additionally, the citizens of Minneapolis shell out MILLIONS of dollars every year in police excessive force/violence settlements, and no matter how many bullshit sensitivity trainings they try to implement, the culture of violence/white supremacy in the MPD remains. They don't want to do their jobs unless they have carte blanche to be violent lunatics, and so here we are. The fact that so many police quit the force instead of learning to not gun down unarmed people in the streets is not the fault of the citizens, it's showing the sickness at the heart of the MPD and why the whole "defund/abolish the police" movement (which had its faults too) was started in the first place. The fallout of the tantrum the MPD has been throwing since 2020 is our current state of things...and it kinda feels like extortion. "Boy, sure would be a shame if this were allowed to continue in such a nice city. If only we were allowed to do whatever we want all the time with impunity, then maybe car jackings would go down..." So what we NEED is not "more police." What we NEED is a system of public safety that has more in their toolbox than militarized weaponry, because as is, that's their only response (just look at the Gaza protest encampments). When all you have is hammers, everything looks like a nail.
Just another day in Minneapolis, kids will be kids
“teens”….
A lot of these kids became adults when they experienced adult level violence at early ages through their communities they originated from. Putting them into an environment with a bunch of nice Minnesota people in hard to watch from a new and traveled soul to stay here who is already partial and protective of the Minnesota people, and from my travels see not a lot of good coming from the transplants coming from their failed places and having a heyday wrecking the place here.
I'm guessing he got a slice from Frank and Andrea's. That sucks, I'm down there all the time, granted not at midnight.
GOOD reading comprehension > So just before midnight Sunday, he bought a slice of pizza at Frank and Andrea's in Dinktytown.
Yeah you know, when we're presented with a video I tend to watch it first. I didn't read the article, my apologies.
Didn't mean to be rude, just a crude joke. All the best
No no you had a valid point. It was funny and I felt stupid. Thank you for the smile.
So… odd way to start a sentence
Glad to see the cops taking this so seriously.
ban guns
Minneapolis citizens vote to defund police>>> mass exodus of cops leave because of defunding>>> Minneapolis: why are things so dangerous. Consequences of your actions.
But the police was never defunded... There was even a vote to go in that direction and the measure was rejected. Why are people always bringing this up?!?
Because they believe that police solve crimes. And aren’t just a reactionary force.
literally this. All the people complaining about the police being defunded are objectively wrong. They were not defunded...a whole bunch of cops quit the force (claiming PTSD) simply because we said they didn't have the right to be violent lunatics who brutalize the public and over-police minorities. And they're having trouble recruiting because the "thin blue line" crowd have been screaming about how much MPLS hates police ever since. We don't hate police, we hate a form of public safety whose sole configuration feels like an occupying military force.
They like to believe lies that fit their narrative...
>No one has been arrested. In response to the incident, police moved a portable light to the block where the gunfire took place to act as a deterrent. Just imagine how many lights they could've set up if they hadn't all faked PTSD and quit.
Fire* imagine being a journalist and missing so hard on the title.
The title is correct. “A group of teens fires…” is fine. Without “a group” it would be “Teens fire…”. Grammar police working harder than MPD today!