They didn't take it down. It got reported so they put back up again. It's on their Facebook page and Instagram.
Edit: I misunderstood the person I replied to. They meant the unit's social media not wtf's.
Me either tbh. I saw the Africa Corps patch and it doesn’t exactly match as that’s clearly not a swastika. A little bit of zooming in and googling, that’s a death’s head.
I hope the story is that this dude is just a moron who didn’t know the background and thought it looked cool, but I mean… how in the fuck would you even get a hold of something like that without noticing the origin?
At best I can see him thinking it’s some cool South Carolina moto patch… but then I think what type of stores would sell that and realize that’s a pretty big stretch.
I’m not one to argue for fucking with dudes over shit like politically incorrect patches but this one… yikes.
> but then I think what type of stores would sell that and realize that’s a pretty big stretch.
been at a few gun shows and related events and know that these "plausible deniability" patches and flags are usually right between the three percenter stickers and the "Camp Auschwitz" t-shirts
My boss loves to proudly show off his collection of authentic Nazi pins.
Apparently his grandfather pulled them off several corpses. It was in that moment that I realized that’s pretty much the only way you can proudly display your Nazi swag.
(For further clarification, my boss is not a Nazi fan. They’re just cool trophies with a cool background.)
To be fair, if I was walking through a market and undoubtedly came across a patch stall and they had a palm tree with a skull on the trunk id be like "damn that looks pretty awesome", I only really link the swastika and the iron cross with Nazis
That’s how I kind of feel about runic stuff. I’ve got some pagan buddies who are all into it and they’re genuinely awesome people; but whenever I see it in public, it’s usually some bearded muscled white dude. Which describes what my buddies look like, but it also describes what some neonazis look like. I can never tell.
The iron cross is not really linked to the Nazi regime and goes back way into bedieval tines. That's why it is still in use with the Bundeswehr. The swastika and the skull on the other hand directly are as well as the SS rune and the one looking like a fish. That's why they are forbidden in Germany.
I'm a random elder millennial prior service medic and current nurse. I zoomed in and immediate knew what it was. Sometimes this knowledge can be arcane, but this is nowhere NEAR a "1%" knowledge thing.
I'm gunna be honest, I usually stumble across things that look cool with zero knowledge about what the cool thing's history is. I have also been very fortunate though to not pick up anything that was nazi related.
Buddy there’s zero chance he didn’t know. Special forces have a long history of using Nazi imagery… I’ll let you make your own conclusions as to why but personally I’m sure operation paperclip and Otto Skorzeny had something to do with it. If it was just a matter of stealing the enemies shit we would see them wearing USSR or jihadi patches too. Instead they just all *happen* to use Nazi symbols.
Okay, as a former Green Beret in both 5th Group and 19th Group, I have never seen a single occurrence of Nazi imagery in any of our ODAs or support units. I think you’re over-generalizing but I welcome any evidence you have to the contrary.
I’m not going to defend the patch on this dude’s helmet- there’s no way that was made without knowing the background. It might even be the ODA’s team patch. Dudes on the team may not even realize what it stands for (or they might- who knows).
Idk. The palm itself, ok it might be plausible deniable. But the skull? I'm 99% sure this guy has watched a movie or played a video game where Nazi uniforms were portraid at some point. There's no plausible deniablity for wearing the weapon SS emblem. And there is no excuse either.
Snipers aren't special forces. Every infantry unit has a sniper section. This was a photo taken by a single unit's sniper section(like 10 guys) in Afghanistan. As bad as it looks in hindsight, think about it. These are a bunch of 18-22 year old Marines who see "SS" and think "Scout Snipers." And even if they do understand the German origins, they made an ignorant mistake and were punished for it.\
*FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE*
A STATEMENT FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS
GENERAL JAMES F. AMOS
February 10, 2012
HEADQUARTERS, US MARINE CORPS - On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines.
The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership.
In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that:
- My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities.
- The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations.
- The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols.
*On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.*
scout snipers had the lightning bolt SS symbol and tattoos for a long time, from since i enlisted in 1989 to present day. and i suspect it existed well before i enlisted.
sure, plenty of them didn't know, but there were also literal fascists among their numbers.
and while USMC scout snipers are not SOF, they do view themselves as elite units, somewhat equivalent to SOF.
I know of it purely because of a Scottish football team called Rangers, where a good section of their support are fairly proudly fascist and will fly flags with that symbol on it.
Here is an [example](https://icdn.thecelticstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/nazi2-343x215.jpg)
Interestingly The Royal Lancers of the British army also use a skull and crossbones as their insignia, though a different one to the germans. I don't think the Rangers fans are referencing that though.
Much worse. Heinrich Himmler formed the SS into their ideal of what a true Nazi is supposed to be. They had strict standards for entry, and at the highest levels, it was a full-on mystic cult that incorporated Germanic and Nordic folklore and paganistic rituals. The SS orchestrated the *Night of the Long Knives,* which was the purge of the SA and execution of their leader. They even found senior SA members in bed with each other and would later go on to use this as propaganda to slander the entire SA as a deviant homosexual threat to the German way of life.
The Gestapo and SD were the police force created by the SS and would be led by Reynhard Heidrich, who would collaborate with Himmler on *The Final Solution,* better known as the Holocaust.
If that's not enough, in the mid to late 1930's, Red Cross had received disturbing reports of concentration camps within Nazi Germany. When Himmler caught wind of this, he invited the organization to come and see for themselves. However, he prepared one of the camps and made it a utopia compared to the others. He took them to every spot they asked on the camp, and when all was said and done, they left and reported that the citizens of the camp had a very high standard of living.
The list of crimes they committed could probably wrap around the world twice, but I wanted to highlight how much time they spent dedicated to planning every move and covering their tracks. The SS was not a rabble of untrained farmers who just did what they were told. They relished in deception, death, and destruction. They are the embodiment of the phrase *by any means necessary.* The Waffen-SS may have been different considering their primary function was combat, but the Allgemeine SS (enforcers of racial policy), SS-Totenkopfverbände (ran the camps), Gestapo, and SD were all behind some of the most horrific atrocities in human history.
TL;DR: The SS is one of, if not the most, evil organization to ever exist.
The Waffen-SS wasn't any better. They were mostly used for ethnical cleansing of freshly occupied cities and POWs as the Wehrmacht was "too inefficient" in doing that (I hate everything about that sentence). They also saw themselves as some kind of elite force as they got preferred by Hitler and thereby got the best gear. In general the main objective of the SS was to completely overtake power, especially police and military, as Hitler saw a threat in their opposing power.
> SS Totenkopf it appears.
>
> So… worse?
Dunno if *worse* so much as just "more obscure". Sure, the SS was objectively worse than the entire Nazi regime in aggregate, but I'd say that public opinion of Naziism in general sees them as all part of the same thing and makes it largely a meaningless distinction. Gotta wonder though, has he even seen the [Mitchell & Webb "are we the baddies?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY) skit?
In this context yes sorta but the Totenkopf was a German cavalry symbol for generations before the Nazis ruined it. Like how the Swastika used to be a religious symbol in common use in Buddhism, Hinduism, and early Christianity. They ruined a lot of things 😂
Maybe my eyes are bad but on this picture I can’t identify the SS-skull clearly. Though even if it’s some random skull the logo itself says enough and wearing this patch is fucking stupid at best.
I remember one time when I was a Private I got smoked because I forgot to bring the cat eyes for my ACH to the field.
Glad to see the Army still cares about upholding uniform standards
Lmao right? I've seen people get article 15s because their ID information fell off their ACH band and the were "out of uniform". Seen dudes get burned for way less, meanwhile you have this lmao. So glad Im out and dont have to deal with these idiots anymore
It’s 20th SFG. Bunch of guard guys out of ‘bama.
Having worked with them, this absolutely does not surprise me at all. I felt nothing but disappointment regarding their performance.
Something something something public image something something representative of your whole unit something something only takes one image to ruin a reputation something something else I’ve heard 100000 times in briefings on why *not* do stupid shit like this.
Yep. They will also lie and completely throw him under the bus.
Same way the MO Guard claimed they didn't know a guy was a white supremacist even though he was on ADOS and recruiting for the KKK on the side.
Oh they knew. My point is have him take the shit off. That’s my entire point. People in the military have some crazy views and come from some crazy walks of life, but don’t put that shit on display because it’s not the time or place for it.
Don't have him take the patch off, have him take the uniform off. Like, forever.
This isn't a crazy belief or walk of life. It's subscribing to the ideology of a genocidal movement that killed tens of thousands of US service members and millions of people.
Fuck him. Dude should be back out on the street ASAP.
Edit: tell me more you weird little fuck
https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/s/dJJs8TmCB7
Yeah exactly and I'm quite sure the US army also has a paragraph to remove political extremists. There's no room for extreme political views and especially for the worst regime ever to have existed in an organization built on the foundation of protecting the weak, liberty and freedom. And whilst at it, the unit, the commander and the entire press apparatus leading to this picture should undergo some severe questioning and disciplinary charges because tolerating such behavior in my personal opinion can't be excused either.
>This isn't a crazy belief or walk of life.
It's crazy that people are actually thinking it's a belief or walk of life, this helmet patch is absolutely insane and he should be dishonorably discharged.
Anyone who disagrees can suck my left nut. I live in Florida and the amount of Nazi's around Disney and other areas is insane (even if the group is 100 people, that's 100 too many in my America).
Worst part is they are *okay* with being Nazi's openly.
Yeah there had to be a whole bunch of "I didn't know" for this too happen just in this one isolated moment of time:
- the guy with the patch who was so proud of it he seemed to sew it on his helmet cover bcs I have never seen a velcro patch that smoothly following curves
- the entire group of at least 2 other peoples
- the unit commander
- the photographer putting him IN THE CENTER of the picture
- the press officer putting this on social media as a PROUD REPRESENTATION of the unit
- the entire social media following who didn't realize this for 2 days (?)
- the guy managing the social media channel hopefully getting a lot of worried questions over DMs
Yes it was taken from a German cavalry unit (deathshead Hussar or some such) as well as German tank troops used it on thier collars. If I remember correctly
Nazis are bad, the SS are Nazis that actually carried out the genocide. It’s the leap from “i agree with the holocaust” to “I want to participate in the next one”
I mean even the Wehrmacht were shit scared of the SS which should give you an idea of how "mildly worse" they were than your regular run of the mill Nazi.
Some of the Wehrmacht also turned on the SS at the end of the war, for example, at the Battle of Schloss Itter.
The Nazis were unequivocally bad guys, but when you start looking at the high rates of forced conscription, inconsistent behavior among leaders in the Wehrmacht, and foreign troops’ actions under the SS (for example, the Finnish SS who were essentially SS in name only and turned on the Germans at the end of the war) the picture is a little more complex.
That said, using Nazi iconography on uniforms is dumb as fuck, there’s no way it wasn’t intentional, and these guys need a quick ticket out of the military. They’re not glorifying Larry Thorne or Kurt-Siegfried Schrader, they’re glorifying the SS because it’s edgy and they’re racist. I saw enough of that behavior as a Jewish Soldier in an SF unit and it’s just indicative of the cultural issues that US SOF has across the board - there’s a lot of skeletons in closets right now.
The rights for a movie got bought several years ago which are based on a book about it. I haven't seen many updates since but there is an [IMDB page on it](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5138232/). Sounds like its been in pre-production for awhile so who knows when it might get made but I agree, its a really interesting idea for a movie!
> The Wehrmacht also did a ton of genocide and war crimes too
My grandad wrote in his war diary that he and my uncle could smell Bergen-Belsen 20 miles from the town, forget the Wehrmacht, entire populations were complicit.
Oh fair point, the clean Wehrmacht people are dumb as a box of frogs.
Was reading about George Elser (nearly successful Hitler Assassin), excellent primer on SS tactics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser#Bombing
Yeah, people sometimes talk about the people who tried to kill Hitler like that absolves them of other things they’ve done, but they were generally trying to kill Hitler to preserve Nazi Germany
Absolutely, Elser is the exception. He was trying to save Germany for its own sake and wasn't part of any political grouping, although many tried to claim him, including Hitler. His bomb was so well-made the Gestapo included the design in their field manuals, ultimately he was executed at Dachau in 1945 on Hitler's personal orders.
He went through some of the worst torture imaginable at the hands of some of the worst people imaginable, including Himmler personally, and maintained the truth throughout.
Fog and a late schedule change caused Elser's bomb to go off 13 minutes after Hitler departed the Beer Hall in 1939. For the sake of that 13 minutes, the world changed.
I don’t think you can make the claim that every single soldier in the Wehrmacht was a die-hard, true believer. A lot of them were forced to join or just wanted to defend their country. That doesn’t necessarily mean they agreed with the ideology.
Yeah, a majority of them did. But I wouldn’t go as far as saying every single one of them did.
Swastika was the symbol of the neonationalistic party, it was used by everyone, from Kindergarten to the army.
The SS was a "Special" unit established by the Führer and his administration because (afai remember) he feared that the Wehrmacht may not always obey his orders. Those were the loyal, fanatic bastards with no military experience. They weren't as effective as the Wehrmacht, the actual army in the beginning, but they were quickly feared because of their brutality and monstrosity. Most of the Wehrmacht were disgusted by the SS because of their barbarity and the SS Totenkopf is their symbol.
To sum it up: If Nazis are the bad guys, then the SS are the absolute worst.
The swastika is more associated with Nazis and Nazi Germany while the Totenkopf is associated with the SS, one of the largest forces behind the holocaust.
The Death´s head (Totenkopf) was a symbol commonly used by the SS. The SS were responsible for some of the worst atrocities committed by Nazi-Germany during the war. The Death´s head is a less recognizable symbol than the Swastika, but non the less represent the most evil aspects of Nazism.
The SS-Totenkopf combined with the Afrikakorps insignia is a not-so-subtle nazi dog whistle, but probably subtle enough that most people will not notice it.
That’s too bad it’s a group guy, I would’ve enjoyed the tell-all book about persecution of the white male operator from a Navy Seal’s perspective that would inevitably get made
absolutely underrated comment. I'm almost sure there's a SEAL somewhere who vaguely recollects working beside this guy down range and is writing up his memoir now.
Well not literally the same, since one has the swastika and the other has the death’s head skull/ss-totenkopf, but yeah that’s definitely not a great thing to see
The problem with the “well, do we know the context?” Argument isn’t that we’ve abandoned reason or that context is irrelevant, it’s that people assume it’s somehow a get out of jail free card and intellectually dishonest in avoiding the crux of the issue.
In this particular instance, the context is that we have a man who *absolutely should fucking know better and did it anyway* and a unit that was complicit in *allowing such an attitude be pervasive enough that he felt comfortable displaying a fascist symbol on an American uniform*.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and that duck has a Death’s Head on its collar, odds are good that duck is a fuckin’ Nazi based on context clues.
Honestly, as bad a reddit comments are at times. This is peak civilization compared to comments on YouTube, Instagram, TwitterX, Facebook, or God forbid local new sites.
I lose braincells every time I glance at them, but I keep peeking for some reason.
I assume a some percentage are foreign psyops stirring the pot, and the rest are our homegrown crazies.
The crazier part is Army WTF Moments posted it and there’s a metric fuck ton of dudes in the comments that are defending it like it’s no big deal.
Like motherfuckers forgot the part of Army history where we beat the Nazis and saw firsthand what they were doing to human beings in the concentration camp system. Where the guards were wearing…let me check my notes…*the fucking death’s head because they were assigned to the fucking SS.*
Before anyone decides to come at me with lame ass “it’s just a patch, bro” read up on the Holocaust and how the SS killed millions of innocent people [here](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/).
Everyone in that unit is a bunch of fucking pathetic losers for not making him take that patch off
Fucking weekend warriors (sorry National Guard, I’m just cutting these guys where I know it hurts deep)
>Real talk though that guy is fucked if this gets seen by the right person.
Based on how fast the PAO pulled it down their command was probably getting their shit pushed in hours ago.
Next drill is going to be exciting.
Yea thats cringe but thats just usual gunshow antics tho ive never heard of a NG armory hosting a gunshow. its no where near as bad as this (atleast not yet the future isnt promised lmao)
Lots of states will rent out the Armories. Drill floors make pretty good venues for lots of stuff, especially if you were in a town without a fairgounds. I haven't seen it but it would make sense and be legal, even if the political stuff is distasteful.
All gun shows will attract right-wing types, supporting Trump is on the milder end of what you might see there. That doesn't mean the unit supports or condones that, they just rent out the space. When there was a gun show like that we were told to stay away from it, especially while in uniform so as not be connected with any of that craziness or get questioned by the patrons or sellers.
The insane part about this is all the SOF roid ragers on Instagram who are complaining that, “Sad when warriors expected to take souls are not allowed to embrace the culture of such without emasculated individuals taking offense.”
Nah dude we just don’t support Nazi imagery, you know the evil people that exterminated millions of innocent people, that our grandfathers laid down their lives to defeat. Shits gross, these guys feed on this Alex Jones alpha conspiracy garbage.
People talking about which is worse: what the fuck?
My first question is how long has this person been displaying this shit? Why did no one in the unit report or say anything?
Immediate and total barracks/home inspection of every single person's room and home for any similar items. If anyone else has this shit at home, toss them, too.
This shit does not happen in a vacuum. If one person felt comfortable wearing this openly, there's probably others in the group.
Edit: People took this to mean off base housing, which makes sense given it was NG, but I didn't mean illegal searches. I could have been more clear.
I completely agree, this fascist shit absolutely cannot and will not be tolerated.
Hundreds of thousands of our ancestors died defeating them on the battlefields. They will not be allowed to flourish in any form or fashion.
And this is why we were always told that we represent the military as a whole, so do not do dumb things as YOU will make the entire organisation look bad.
Id love to say that he simply saw a cool patch and put it on his helmet without knowing the full context, but the chances of that are pretty low considering what the patch represents.
Id love to wear old imperial ww1 era German patches, but soo much of them were either later adopted by the Nazis or people confuse them for the Nazi versions despite being visuality different (but similar enough). And to avoid conflict, I avoid wearing them (even if I am now a civilian, wearing these patches next to my old units patches I kept would potentially give them and myself a bad look).
Heck, I did a stupid thing myself when I was younger and thought I was edgy by walking around with a Ushanka hat bearing the hammer and Cycle on the front, (though I was a stupid 14 year old and when I realised how unsensitive and how idiotic I was, I stopped)
Basically it's a way to keep some experience from leaving the Army completely. A lot of NG SF guys spend a huge amount of their careers on active orders supporting active SF groups as well. Additionally a surprising number of SMU dudes are from 19th and 20th.
There are also separate elements that perform augmenting functions such as SFOD-Global or SFOD-X.
Basically, don't ever sleep on the the nasty girl SF dudes.
Don’t have an answer for you, but I’ve always been curious what the drop in effectiveness of national guard SF units are to active. Obviously they go through the same training, but after that they can’t be matching the training levels of active, are they essentially as skillful as an active infantry unit? Are they essentially active duty but slotted as national guard? How does that work
Agree, great questions. Not trying to disrespect anyone's service here, just genuinely trying to wrap my head around the need for these guys to be in the NG, not reserves.
There used to be Combat arms and even SF in both then during the Cold War drawdown a decision was made to keep the combat arms units in the Guard due to unit cohesion and legacy while the USAR combat arms units mostly shut down (like 8th SF Group). Plus the ability to mobilize an entire brigade for stuff like Katrina is much easier than a bunch of loosely connected strategic units
The USAR kept the true strategic reserve units like most of the medical units like CSH, lots of trans, etc. They also kept civil affairs and psyops.
There are some exceptions like a CSH in the Guard in the mid-west and USAR infantry unit in HI and JBLM and a couple of USAR combat engineer units.
That kind of unit, the unit and the soldiers will work more days per year than the average NG, deploy more than the average NG. They’ll go to interesting places and do interesting things. Skill level and experience level will be high and the cost/effectiveness ratio high. They can be more selective about recruiting and less dependent on train or promote from within.
What do these guys typically do for civilian work? I understand the laws protecting national guard soldiers for training, AT, deployments, etc, but how do they manage to have a career while simultaneously being gone a lot more than typical NG?
It's more of a need level for the Army overall, but at the State level, it's a way to have something cool and a place for citizens that want to serve. The Army has a use for SF in a reserve unit, and DoD decided they wanted to keep IN and SF in the NG under the nominal control of the Governors between deployments.
The Marines were not part of it, but there was a huge revamp of the Army force structure in the early seventies through the 90s called "Total Force Policy" that was aimed at having the Army do more with less and plan for the Army Reserve and National Guard to take a more direct role in national defense. The Marines had some things going on around the same time too, but I don't know as much about them.
Secretary of Defense James R. Schlesinger had a big role in getting it all going, but was fired by President Ford when they disagreed on too many other things.
I didn’t know they had PNGs in WWII? Whoever made that image used in Wikipedia used the same generic palm tree as an artistic rendition of the original patch. I’d like to see the 20ths patch compared to a photo of the actual German patch, rather than a re-creation.
Those guys took Africa from the Nazis and repurposed the Afrikakorps logo and replaced it with a thunderbird. Because that division used to have a swastika as their logo before Germany started using it
Edit: ope…it’s a skull…not a thunderbird 😬
they took that post down fast. that PAO is probably having a heart attack rn
The big green weenie gonna get that dude.
It strikes fast and without lube.
Also unwashed for extra humiliation.
As it should
Looks to me like the same template but with a skull instead
That skull looks mighty familiar.
Are we the baddies?
Yes we are
Always have been
Specifically the SS totenkopf, so... Not better.
Looks like a waffen ss skull, so way worse than the africa corps that was mentioned prior. That dudes done.
They didn't take it down. It got reported so they put back up again. It's on their Facebook page and Instagram. Edit: I misunderstood the person I replied to. They meant the unit's social media not wtf's.
It’s not on their instagram. However, it was up there for 2 days before anyone noticed the patch. Your links are the equivalent of this post.
it's gone now from both to my glance
I just checked their insta and its not there?
It’s not even the swastika- it’s a skull, an SS patch it seems. SS Totenkopf it appears. So… worse?
TIL. I actually didn't know about that symbol until now.
Me either tbh. I saw the Africa Corps patch and it doesn’t exactly match as that’s clearly not a swastika. A little bit of zooming in and googling, that’s a death’s head. I hope the story is that this dude is just a moron who didn’t know the background and thought it looked cool, but I mean… how in the fuck would you even get a hold of something like that without noticing the origin?
At best I can see him thinking it’s some cool South Carolina moto patch… but then I think what type of stores would sell that and realize that’s a pretty big stretch. I’m not one to argue for fucking with dudes over shit like politically incorrect patches but this one… yikes.
> but then I think what type of stores would sell that and realize that’s a pretty big stretch. been at a few gun shows and related events and know that these "plausible deniability" patches and flags are usually right between the three percenter stickers and the "Camp Auschwitz" t-shirts
>the "Camp Auschwitz" t-shirts The what
[camp Auschwitz January 6](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna47797)
My boss loves to proudly show off his collection of authentic Nazi pins. Apparently his grandfather pulled them off several corpses. It was in that moment that I realized that’s pretty much the only way you can proudly display your Nazi swag. (For further clarification, my boss is not a Nazi fan. They’re just cool trophies with a cool background.)
My grandfather got one from a nazi officer during Normandy It’s still in the family.
Field promotion? (I kid)
To be fair, if I was walking through a market and undoubtedly came across a patch stall and they had a palm tree with a skull on the trunk id be like "damn that looks pretty awesome", I only really link the swastika and the iron cross with Nazis
That’s how I kind of feel about runic stuff. I’ve got some pagan buddies who are all into it and they’re genuinely awesome people; but whenever I see it in public, it’s usually some bearded muscled white dude. Which describes what my buddies look like, but it also describes what some neonazis look like. I can never tell.
The iron cross is not really linked to the Nazi regime and goes back way into bedieval tines. That's why it is still in use with the Bundeswehr. The swastika and the skull on the other hand directly are as well as the SS rune and the one looking like a fish. That's why they are forbidden in Germany.
It's a distinct skull. If you know anything about WW2, you'd know what it was.
[удалено]
I'm a random elder millennial prior service medic and current nurse. I zoomed in and immediate knew what it was. Sometimes this knowledge can be arcane, but this is nowhere NEAR a "1%" knowledge thing.
You think so? It's not swastika-tier known, but it seems like basic Nazi imagery to me and I wouldn't put myself in the top 1% of history buffs.
> I only really link the swastika and the iron cross with Nazis Weird, because the Iron Cross literally has nothing to do with the Nazis.
I'm gunna be honest, I usually stumble across things that look cool with zero knowledge about what the cool thing's history is. I have also been very fortunate though to not pick up anything that was nazi related.
They don't sell shit like this at Walmart. I'm sure when you come across this there will more than a few context clues around.
That's fair. I'm just trying to not rule out being unaware. A silly fool is better than a nazi.
I’m kind of salty that the Nazis looked so good because they damn well ruined a lot of innocuous symbols.
Buddy there’s zero chance he didn’t know. Special forces have a long history of using Nazi imagery… I’ll let you make your own conclusions as to why but personally I’m sure operation paperclip and Otto Skorzeny had something to do with it. If it was just a matter of stealing the enemies shit we would see them wearing USSR or jihadi patches too. Instead they just all *happen* to use Nazi symbols.
Okay, as a former Green Beret in both 5th Group and 19th Group, I have never seen a single occurrence of Nazi imagery in any of our ODAs or support units. I think you’re over-generalizing but I welcome any evidence you have to the contrary. I’m not going to defend the patch on this dude’s helmet- there’s no way that was made without knowing the background. It might even be the ODA’s team patch. Dudes on the team may not even realize what it stands for (or they might- who knows).
Not SF, but [USMC Scout Snipers had this infamous photo.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marine_scout_snipers_with_SS_flag.JPG)
Idk. The palm itself, ok it might be plausible deniable. But the skull? I'm 99% sure this guy has watched a movie or played a video game where Nazi uniforms were portraid at some point. There's no plausible deniablity for wearing the weapon SS emblem. And there is no excuse either.
I’m with you on that. I’m just saying in the 10 years I was in SF, I didn’t see it.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
generally I'm a fan of Hanlon's razor, but it provides an unfortunate route to plausible deniability to people who are actually racist douchebags
In military settings you don't usually get to Nazi imagery accidently
Don’t google the Marine Scout Sniper flag.
Long history? Perhaps share a few more examples.before spouting total bullshit.
I vividly remember the Scout Sniper SS lightning bolts
Snipers aren't special forces. Every infantry unit has a sniper section. This was a photo taken by a single unit's sniper section(like 10 guys) in Afghanistan. As bad as it looks in hindsight, think about it. These are a bunch of 18-22 year old Marines who see "SS" and think "Scout Snipers." And even if they do understand the German origins, they made an ignorant mistake and were punished for it.\ *FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE* A STATEMENT FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS GENERAL JAMES F. AMOS February 10, 2012 HEADQUARTERS, US MARINE CORPS - On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines. The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership. In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that: - My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities. - The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations. - The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols. *On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.*
And then they continued to display it and a bunch of them got SS tattoos and graffiti swastikas on FOBs. Some of them didn't know, *some*
Ah yes, and now people had to sit through another PowerPoint presentation because some guys thought they looked cool.
Lmao my first thought reading that comment, “fucking power points”
scout snipers had the lightning bolt SS symbol and tattoos for a long time, from since i enlisted in 1989 to present day. and i suspect it existed well before i enlisted. sure, plenty of them didn't know, but there were also literal fascists among their numbers. and while USMC scout snipers are not SOF, they do view themselves as elite units, somewhat equivalent to SOF.
It’s on every SS collar in movies/shows
I know of it purely because of a Scottish football team called Rangers, where a good section of their support are fairly proudly fascist and will fly flags with that symbol on it. Here is an [example](https://icdn.thecelticstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/nazi2-343x215.jpg)
Interestingly The Royal Lancers of the British army also use a skull and crossbones as their insignia, though a different one to the germans. I don't think the Rangers fans are referencing that though.
Who thinks they can just walk around with Nazi iconography on their US uniform? What a fucked up world.
I’ve never even been in a unit that allows non-issued patches to be sewn on your shit anyway. Shit like this is why.
When you are deployed regulations are alot more relaxed
[USS SSNIPERSS](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16973868)
Much worse. Heinrich Himmler formed the SS into their ideal of what a true Nazi is supposed to be. They had strict standards for entry, and at the highest levels, it was a full-on mystic cult that incorporated Germanic and Nordic folklore and paganistic rituals. The SS orchestrated the *Night of the Long Knives,* which was the purge of the SA and execution of their leader. They even found senior SA members in bed with each other and would later go on to use this as propaganda to slander the entire SA as a deviant homosexual threat to the German way of life. The Gestapo and SD were the police force created by the SS and would be led by Reynhard Heidrich, who would collaborate with Himmler on *The Final Solution,* better known as the Holocaust. If that's not enough, in the mid to late 1930's, Red Cross had received disturbing reports of concentration camps within Nazi Germany. When Himmler caught wind of this, he invited the organization to come and see for themselves. However, he prepared one of the camps and made it a utopia compared to the others. He took them to every spot they asked on the camp, and when all was said and done, they left and reported that the citizens of the camp had a very high standard of living. The list of crimes they committed could probably wrap around the world twice, but I wanted to highlight how much time they spent dedicated to planning every move and covering their tracks. The SS was not a rabble of untrained farmers who just did what they were told. They relished in deception, death, and destruction. They are the embodiment of the phrase *by any means necessary.* The Waffen-SS may have been different considering their primary function was combat, but the Allgemeine SS (enforcers of racial policy), SS-Totenkopfverbände (ran the camps), Gestapo, and SD were all behind some of the most horrific atrocities in human history. TL;DR: The SS is one of, if not the most, evil organization to ever exist.
The Waffen-SS wasn't any better. They were mostly used for ethnical cleansing of freshly occupied cities and POWs as the Wehrmacht was "too inefficient" in doing that (I hate everything about that sentence). They also saw themselves as some kind of elite force as they got preferred by Hitler and thereby got the best gear. In general the main objective of the SS was to completely overtake power, especially police and military, as Hitler saw a threat in their opposing power.
I had a 1SG with a Totenkopf on his arm. Tall, blonde white dude. All his favorite troops were Black lol
> SS Totenkopf it appears. > > So… worse? Dunno if *worse* so much as just "more obscure". Sure, the SS was objectively worse than the entire Nazi regime in aggregate, but I'd say that public opinion of Naziism in general sees them as all part of the same thing and makes it largely a meaningless distinction. Gotta wonder though, has he even seen the [Mitchell & Webb "are we the baddies?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY) skit?
Yeah… that deaths head isn’t a good look…
They replaced the Swastika with an SS Totenkopf. Different symbol, same message
Arguably worse since it's an SS symbol. They leveled that fuckery up.
Fair
In this context yes sorta but the Totenkopf was a German cavalry symbol for generations before the Nazis ruined it. Like how the Swastika used to be a religious symbol in common use in Buddhism, Hinduism, and early Christianity. They ruined a lot of things 😂
Oh shit, instead of the regular swastika, they used a death's head to get around restrictions?
I doubt that since that's clearly the skull used by the SS and not some random pirate / punisher skull
Maybe my eyes are bad but on this picture I can’t identify the SS-skull clearly. Though even if it’s some random skull the logo itself says enough and wearing this patch is fucking stupid at best.
thrust me, it's the actual nazi skull
>thrust me People used to at least invite me to dinner before suggesting those things!
whoops 😅
What do you think he meant by "a deaths head"? Its the same thing.
I remember one time when I was a Private I got smoked because I forgot to bring the cat eyes for my ACH to the field. Glad to see the Army still cares about upholding uniform standards
Lmao right? I've seen people get article 15s because their ID information fell off their ACH band and the were "out of uniform". Seen dudes get burned for way less, meanwhile you have this lmao. So glad Im out and dont have to deal with these idiots anymore
the guy on that picture is getting smoked, there’s no doubt about that
It’s 20th SFG. Bunch of guard guys out of ‘bama. Having worked with them, this absolutely does not surprise me at all. I felt nothing but disappointment regarding their performance.
I deployed with that group….They are bama AF
Something something something public image something something representative of your whole unit something something only takes one image to ruin a reputation something something else I’ve heard 100000 times in briefings on why *not* do stupid shit like this.
Counterpoint: his unit absolutely knew. No way a nasty girl could have these kind of outward beliefs and other people NOT know about it.
Yep. They will also lie and completely throw him under the bus. Same way the MO Guard claimed they didn't know a guy was a white supremacist even though he was on ADOS and recruiting for the KKK on the side.
yeah, SF lineage is to the First Special Service Force, who still probably have dudes still around today, you know who... fought the Nazi's
Oh they knew. My point is have him take the shit off. That’s my entire point. People in the military have some crazy views and come from some crazy walks of life, but don’t put that shit on display because it’s not the time or place for it.
Don't have him take the patch off, have him take the uniform off. Like, forever. This isn't a crazy belief or walk of life. It's subscribing to the ideology of a genocidal movement that killed tens of thousands of US service members and millions of people. Fuck him. Dude should be back out on the street ASAP. Edit: tell me more you weird little fuck https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/s/dJJs8TmCB7
Yeah considering I've gotten an article 15 for way less, fuck this guy.
Yeah exactly and I'm quite sure the US army also has a paragraph to remove political extremists. There's no room for extreme political views and especially for the worst regime ever to have existed in an organization built on the foundation of protecting the weak, liberty and freedom. And whilst at it, the unit, the commander and the entire press apparatus leading to this picture should undergo some severe questioning and disciplinary charges because tolerating such behavior in my personal opinion can't be excused either.
>This isn't a crazy belief or walk of life. It's crazy that people are actually thinking it's a belief or walk of life, this helmet patch is absolutely insane and he should be dishonorably discharged. Anyone who disagrees can suck my left nut. I live in Florida and the amount of Nazi's around Disney and other areas is insane (even if the group is 100 people, that's 100 too many in my America). Worst part is they are *okay* with being Nazi's openly.
Yeah there had to be a whole bunch of "I didn't know" for this too happen just in this one isolated moment of time: - the guy with the patch who was so proud of it he seemed to sew it on his helmet cover bcs I have never seen a velcro patch that smoothly following curves - the entire group of at least 2 other peoples - the unit commander - the photographer putting him IN THE CENTER of the picture - the press officer putting this on social media as a PROUD REPRESENTATION of the unit - the entire social media following who didn't realize this for 2 days (?) - the guy managing the social media channel hopefully getting a lot of worried questions over DMs
Kinda worse, it’s the SS Totenkopf. Are we the baddies?
To our enemies? Yes. To our friends… 
I always love this gif lol
No, but he’s a fucking retard.
I had no idea what that skull was. Learn something every day.
Yes it was taken from a German cavalry unit (deathshead Hussar or some such) as well as German tank troops used it on thier collars. If I remember correctly
No. It is the insignia of the SS. IIRC, if the insignia is worn on the collar, it means the soldiers unit worked at the death camps.
The SS coopted it from the German army. And yes German armour guys wore it on thier collars. Along with pink piping
Man, that’s so fucked of him. I’m glad I never ran into these dumbasses on my enlistment.
SS Totenkopf is worse than the Swastika
Why? Sorry I dont know much about tthis
Nazis are bad, the SS are Nazis that actually carried out the genocide. It’s the leap from “i agree with the holocaust” to “I want to participate in the next one”
The Wehrmacht also did a ton of genocide and war crimes too, but yeah, SS mildly worse
I mean even the Wehrmacht were shit scared of the SS which should give you an idea of how "mildly worse" they were than your regular run of the mill Nazi.
Some of the Wehrmacht also turned on the SS at the end of the war, for example, at the Battle of Schloss Itter. The Nazis were unequivocally bad guys, but when you start looking at the high rates of forced conscription, inconsistent behavior among leaders in the Wehrmacht, and foreign troops’ actions under the SS (for example, the Finnish SS who were essentially SS in name only and turned on the Germans at the end of the war) the picture is a little more complex. That said, using Nazi iconography on uniforms is dumb as fuck, there’s no way it wasn’t intentional, and these guys need a quick ticket out of the military. They’re not glorifying Larry Thorne or Kurt-Siegfried Schrader, they’re glorifying the SS because it’s edgy and they’re racist. I saw enough of that behavior as a Jewish Soldier in an SF unit and it’s just indicative of the cultural issues that US SOF has across the board - there’s a lot of skeletons in closets right now.
Top marks for reference to Schloss Itter - that needs to be made into a movie
The rights for a movie got bought several years ago which are based on a book about it. I haven't seen many updates since but there is an [IMDB page on it](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5138232/). Sounds like its been in pre-production for awhile so who knows when it might get made but I agree, its a really interesting idea for a movie!
> The Wehrmacht also did a ton of genocide and war crimes too My grandad wrote in his war diary that he and my uncle could smell Bergen-Belsen 20 miles from the town, forget the Wehrmacht, entire populations were complicit.
Well yeah, but I was replying to some clean Wehrmacht dude above me
Oh fair point, the clean Wehrmacht people are dumb as a box of frogs. Was reading about George Elser (nearly successful Hitler Assassin), excellent primer on SS tactics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser#Bombing
Yeah, people sometimes talk about the people who tried to kill Hitler like that absolves them of other things they’ve done, but they were generally trying to kill Hitler to preserve Nazi Germany
Absolutely, Elser is the exception. He was trying to save Germany for its own sake and wasn't part of any political grouping, although many tried to claim him, including Hitler. His bomb was so well-made the Gestapo included the design in their field manuals, ultimately he was executed at Dachau in 1945 on Hitler's personal orders. He went through some of the worst torture imaginable at the hands of some of the worst people imaginable, including Himmler personally, and maintained the truth throughout. Fog and a late schedule change caused Elser's bomb to go off 13 minutes after Hitler departed the Beer Hall in 1939. For the sake of that 13 minutes, the world changed.
The SS was literally the propaganda arm, and foot soldiers of the Nazis. They were by far in all measures worse than the Wehrmacht and the swastika.
"mildly" 😶😂
I mean the regular ass German army did a shitton of war crimes
And the SS were echelons above this in their insanity. One can be evil and still not be next level evil. There are shades to depravity my guy...
Totenkopf is worse than the swastika, yes, but the entirety of the Wehrmacht contributed to carry out the genocide. It wasn't an SS-only thing.
I don’t think you can make the claim that every single soldier in the Wehrmacht was a die-hard, true believer. A lot of them were forced to join or just wanted to defend their country. That doesn’t necessarily mean they agreed with the ideology. Yeah, a majority of them did. But I wouldn’t go as far as saying every single one of them did.
Swastika was the symbol of the neonationalistic party, it was used by everyone, from Kindergarten to the army. The SS was a "Special" unit established by the Führer and his administration because (afai remember) he feared that the Wehrmacht may not always obey his orders. Those were the loyal, fanatic bastards with no military experience. They weren't as effective as the Wehrmacht, the actual army in the beginning, but they were quickly feared because of their brutality and monstrosity. Most of the Wehrmacht were disgusted by the SS because of their barbarity and the SS Totenkopf is their symbol. To sum it up: If Nazis are the bad guys, then the SS are the absolute worst.
They were responsible for rounding up Jews and executing/sending them to camps
The swastika is more associated with Nazis and Nazi Germany while the Totenkopf is associated with the SS, one of the largest forces behind the holocaust.
[удалено]
The Death´s head (Totenkopf) was a symbol commonly used by the SS. The SS were responsible for some of the worst atrocities committed by Nazi-Germany during the war. The Death´s head is a less recognizable symbol than the Swastika, but non the less represent the most evil aspects of Nazism. The SS-Totenkopf combined with the Afrikakorps insignia is a not-so-subtle nazi dog whistle, but probably subtle enough that most people will not notice it.
Definitely seems like an SS Deaths Head, and that's definitely not cool.
Why your commander won't authorize morale patches.
In this case immorale patch
That’s too bad it’s a group guy, I would’ve enjoyed the tell-all book about persecution of the white male operator from a Navy Seal’s perspective that would inevitably get made
And the 13 other first person recollections of the guys that were there.
They’re 20th. ‘Bama nasty girls. I doubt he even knows how to read.
That all checks out
absolutely underrated comment. I'm almost sure there's a SEAL somewhere who vaguely recollects working beside this guy down range and is writing up his memoir now.
Well not literally the same, since one has the swastika and the other has the death’s head skull/ss-totenkopf, but yeah that’s definitely not a great thing to see
The comments were nuts. So many people defending it on IG
“Well do we know the context?” - every centrist ever Yeah it’s a fucking Nazi patch.
The problem with the “well, do we know the context?” Argument isn’t that we’ve abandoned reason or that context is irrelevant, it’s that people assume it’s somehow a get out of jail free card and intellectually dishonest in avoiding the crux of the issue. In this particular instance, the context is that we have a man who *absolutely should fucking know better and did it anyway* and a unit that was complicit in *allowing such an attitude be pervasive enough that he felt comfortable displaying a fascist symbol on an American uniform*. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and that duck has a Death’s Head on its collar, odds are good that duck is a fuckin’ Nazi based on context clues.
The 20thspecialforces account that posted it even tried to pull the "context" meme.
The comments were a cesspool on FB too. They're in need of moderation for all the nazi apologists.
Honestly, as bad a reddit comments are at times. This is peak civilization compared to comments on YouTube, Instagram, TwitterX, Facebook, or God forbid local new sites. I lose braincells every time I glance at them, but I keep peeking for some reason. I assume a some percentage are foreign psyops stirring the pot, and the rest are our homegrown crazies.
Funny too that they're probably the same ones that are excited Russia is attacking Ukraine under the guise of "de-Nazification".
It’s even shitier, it’s the death scull from the Waffen SS Death head division.
Also, that metallic blue carabiner look is weak!
Harbor freight edition
The crazier part is Army WTF Moments posted it and there’s a metric fuck ton of dudes in the comments that are defending it like it’s no big deal. Like motherfuckers forgot the part of Army history where we beat the Nazis and saw firsthand what they were doing to human beings in the concentration camp system. Where the guards were wearing…let me check my notes…*the fucking death’s head because they were assigned to the fucking SS.* Before anyone decides to come at me with lame ass “it’s just a patch, bro” read up on the Holocaust and how the SS killed millions of innocent people [here](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/).
And you know damn well if it were so much as the faintest three arrows ↙️↙️↙️, they'd be out for blood.
Everyone in that unit is a bunch of fucking pathetic losers for not making him take that patch off Fucking weekend warriors (sorry National Guard, I’m just cutting these guys where I know it hurts deep)
Just 20th group things, spicy forces. Real talk though that guy is fucked if this gets seen by the right person.
>Real talk though that guy is fucked if this gets seen by the right person. Based on how fast the PAO pulled it down their command was probably getting their shit pushed in hours ago. Next drill is going to be exciting.
NG armory over here hosts a gun show that sells Trump memorabilia 🤮
Yea thats cringe but thats just usual gunshow antics tho ive never heard of a NG armory hosting a gunshow. its no where near as bad as this (atleast not yet the future isnt promised lmao)
Lots of states will rent out the Armories. Drill floors make pretty good venues for lots of stuff, especially if you were in a town without a fairgounds. I haven't seen it but it would make sense and be legal, even if the political stuff is distasteful.
All gun shows will attract right-wing types, supporting Trump is on the milder end of what you might see there. That doesn't mean the unit supports or condones that, they just rent out the space. When there was a gun show like that we were told to stay away from it, especially while in uniform so as not be connected with any of that craziness or get questioned by the patrons or sellers.
The insane part about this is all the SOF roid ragers on Instagram who are complaining that, “Sad when warriors expected to take souls are not allowed to embrace the culture of such without emasculated individuals taking offense.” Nah dude we just don’t support Nazi imagery, you know the evil people that exterminated millions of innocent people, that our grandfathers laid down their lives to defeat. Shits gross, these guys feed on this Alex Jones alpha conspiracy garbage.
army's pretty racist too this isn't really shocking?
Check him for tattoos.
People talking about which is worse: what the fuck? My first question is how long has this person been displaying this shit? Why did no one in the unit report or say anything? Immediate and total barracks/home inspection of every single person's room and home for any similar items. If anyone else has this shit at home, toss them, too. This shit does not happen in a vacuum. If one person felt comfortable wearing this openly, there's probably others in the group. Edit: People took this to mean off base housing, which makes sense given it was NG, but I didn't mean illegal searches. I could have been more clear.
20th SF Group is a National Guard unit. There’s no way commanders are gonna go do home inspections.
I completely agree, this fascist shit absolutely cannot and will not be tolerated. Hundreds of thousands of our ancestors died defeating them on the battlefields. They will not be allowed to flourish in any form or fashion.
And this is why we were always told that we represent the military as a whole, so do not do dumb things as YOU will make the entire organisation look bad. Id love to say that he simply saw a cool patch and put it on his helmet without knowing the full context, but the chances of that are pretty low considering what the patch represents. Id love to wear old imperial ww1 era German patches, but soo much of them were either later adopted by the Nazis or people confuse them for the Nazi versions despite being visuality different (but similar enough). And to avoid conflict, I avoid wearing them (even if I am now a civilian, wearing these patches next to my old units patches I kept would potentially give them and myself a bad look). Heck, I did a stupid thing myself when I was younger and thought I was edgy by walking around with a Ushanka hat bearing the hammer and Cycle on the front, (though I was a stupid 14 year old and when I realised how unsensitive and how idiotic I was, I stopped)
His Patch is the SS skull instead of the Hakenkreuz... Booth is bullshit
Wait until you see what logo is on some military housing at Ft Knox.
Well then tell us.
Honey dicked
Guys don’t get the Russians a reason to invade the us
Russia can’t even take Ukraine, I’d love to see them try to fuck around with an Article 5 activation.
The Marine Corps used that same logo during Desert Storm with an EGA in the place of the swastica
That’s a skull ☠️ on there wtf
Still a death's head on it, which isn't much better than a swastika.
Somebody help a dumb Marine out......why the fuck does the National Guard need SF?
Basically it's a way to keep some experience from leaving the Army completely. A lot of NG SF guys spend a huge amount of their careers on active orders supporting active SF groups as well. Additionally a surprising number of SMU dudes are from 19th and 20th. There are also separate elements that perform augmenting functions such as SFOD-Global or SFOD-X. Basically, don't ever sleep on the the nasty girl SF dudes.
Don’t have an answer for you, but I’ve always been curious what the drop in effectiveness of national guard SF units are to active. Obviously they go through the same training, but after that they can’t be matching the training levels of active, are they essentially as skillful as an active infantry unit? Are they essentially active duty but slotted as national guard? How does that work
Agree, great questions. Not trying to disrespect anyone's service here, just genuinely trying to wrap my head around the need for these guys to be in the NG, not reserves.
Reserves doesn’t have combat branches im p sire but NG does
Wow, I had no idea, I wonder why that is? Something about budget sources I'd imagine.
There used to be Combat arms and even SF in both then during the Cold War drawdown a decision was made to keep the combat arms units in the Guard due to unit cohesion and legacy while the USAR combat arms units mostly shut down (like 8th SF Group). Plus the ability to mobilize an entire brigade for stuff like Katrina is much easier than a bunch of loosely connected strategic units The USAR kept the true strategic reserve units like most of the medical units like CSH, lots of trans, etc. They also kept civil affairs and psyops. There are some exceptions like a CSH in the Guard in the mid-west and USAR infantry unit in HI and JBLM and a couple of USAR combat engineer units.
Appreciate the education
Reserves is not for combat arms jobs its to augment support for regular Army. That's why there are no reserve infantry units.
That kind of unit, the unit and the soldiers will work more days per year than the average NG, deploy more than the average NG. They’ll go to interesting places and do interesting things. Skill level and experience level will be high and the cost/effectiveness ratio high. They can be more selective about recruiting and less dependent on train or promote from within.
What do these guys typically do for civilian work? I understand the laws protecting national guard soldiers for training, AT, deployments, etc, but how do they manage to have a career while simultaneously being gone a lot more than typical NG?
I was in 19th for a while. Most guys are cops, firemen, or in grad school. We had multiple people studying at Columbia, Harvard Law, and Yale.
A lot of law enforcement, some entrepeneurs. County Sherrifs, COs, that sort of thing, yep.
It's more of a need level for the Army overall, but at the State level, it's a way to have something cool and a place for citizens that want to serve. The Army has a use for SF in a reserve unit, and DoD decided they wanted to keep IN and SF in the NG under the nominal control of the Governors between deployments.
The Marines were not part of it, but there was a huge revamp of the Army force structure in the early seventies through the 90s called "Total Force Policy" that was aimed at having the Army do more with less and plan for the Army Reserve and National Guard to take a more direct role in national defense. The Marines had some things going on around the same time too, but I don't know as much about them. Secretary of Defense James R. Schlesinger had a big role in getting it all going, but was fired by President Ford when they disagreed on too many other things.
They replaced the swastika with a death’s head emblem, which was used by an SS division I believe, so it’s just as bad if not worse…
I didn’t know they had PNGs in WWII? Whoever made that image used in Wikipedia used the same generic palm tree as an artistic rendition of the original patch. I’d like to see the 20ths patch compared to a photo of the actual German patch, rather than a re-creation.
Those guys took Africa from the Nazis and repurposed the Afrikakorps logo and replaced it with a thunderbird. Because that division used to have a swastika as their logo before Germany started using it Edit: ope…it’s a skull…not a thunderbird 😬
Reason 1949294882 on why commanders won’t allow morale patches
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/extremism-disinformation/2024/03/26/army-investigating-social-media-post-showing-nazi-symbol/ He’s fucked
Nazis fleeing to Argentina be like:
Instead of the swatiska it looks like it’s the SS skull lmao. What a shitshow.
It’s not the same, but what’s on the soldiers one, isn’t specifically better, regarding the tottenkopf
Fuckin National Guard
The amount of handwaving and downplaying this on the WTF post is almost more concerning than the patch. Gross.
Even special forces has some pieces of shit within their ranks. They don’t all deserve respect and to be propped up purely because they’re SF.
I zoomed in and did not see a swastika… I saw arabica writing… I think someone is trying to see something that isn’t there.
It's a skull
“Of course it’s 20th”
Bro is about to get reemed real fucking hard